Dark - 3x5 'Life and Death' | FIRST TIME REACTION & REVIEW

Поделиться
HTML-код
  • Опубликовано: 2 фев 2025

Комментарии • 106

  • @ChannelNamePending699
    @ChannelNamePending699  2 месяца назад +1

    *Warning for first time viewers watching along with us:* This comment thread contains spoilers for the rest of the season. Read at your own risk.

  • @annak2597
    @annak2597 2 месяца назад +18

    Ulrich realizing Katharina isn't coming gets me. He doesn't even look surprised, just so defeated like "Eh, what did I expect?"

  • @Wizball74
    @Wizball74 2 месяца назад +34

    Just dropping by to say, that your reactions in general, your well thought out theories and the amount of energy you invest into the series makes me both happy and impressed.
    Isn't it fantastic that once in a while there is a rare gem out there, that blocks a certain percentage of your brain each day, where you are able to completely loose yourself into, which keeps you awake at night theorizing, trying to predict every possible explanation - and nevertheless is able to still surprise you in the end?
    It's not a show for everyone, but if you are into this kind of mind melting experience, this is the goat for you. That's why this show has such a loyal fan base and many crazy nerds, myself included, who still long for new reactions on the show, just to experience the mindfuck again... through the eyes of others.
    Thank you for your engagement, i hope you are satisfied with the last episodes and had a lot of fun on the way.

    • @ChannelNamePending699
      @ChannelNamePending699  2 месяца назад +6

      Really well said, and thank you! Even though the show is very popular, it still think it deserves a way bigger following than it has, and it makes me sad that so many people are missing out because they don't want to watch foreign media or read subtitles. I truly believe Dark deserves to be ranked among shows like Breaking Bad and Game of Thrones (seasons 1-5).
      You'll be happy to know the last episodes blew us away and we were more than satisfied with the ending.

    • @Wizball74
      @Wizball74 2 месяца назад

      ​@@ChannelNamePending699 Glad to hear that and eagerly awaiting the last reactions!

  • @geraldineetv7312
    @geraldineetv7312 2 месяца назад +39

    Katharina is the lady of the lake 😭

  • @jaijais
    @jaijais 2 месяца назад +16

    the most difficult episode to rewatch. wrecks me every time. can’t listen to hozier’s in the woods somewhere without thinking of peter and katharina and how tragic their ends were, and ulrich waiting. does he ever realize that something happened to her? or does he chalk it up to him hallucinating her and making the plan. man this show truly has some of the saddest characters ever

  • @aubryellaotero1064
    @aubryellaotero1064 2 месяца назад +6

    “Might be the most violent scene at the end of the show” and then Katarina and her mom’s fight happens later in this episode 😭😭😭 this episode truly is DARK.

  • @phoenixwing2687
    @phoenixwing2687 2 месяца назад +9

    Lmaoo when the whiteboard was pulled out😂Yall are DEDICATED and i love to see it👏

  • @colonelsanders2038
    @colonelsanders2038 2 месяца назад +15

    Jonas and Martha relationship status: It's complicated

  • @HolyPhlebotinum
    @HolyPhlebotinum 2 месяца назад +16

    I know the boys have finished the show by this point, but if you haven't then SPOILERS BELOW.
    Interestingly, Manny was actually kinda right about Charlotte's death being the origin point. He was just wrong about which Charlotte.

    • @HolyPhlebotinum
      @HolyPhlebotinum 2 месяца назад +10

      Also, regarding your comment about "no two sperm cells can be the same." That's not technically true. It's just highly HIGHLY unlikely. But with self-perpetuating causal loops, probability kinda goes out the window.
      That said, there is a more fun theory. I believe that the Unknown used the apocalypse loophole to duplicate himself so that the two copies could each impregnate Agnes in a different world. Then afterwards, one of them killed the other. Cain killed Abel.

    • @workhardtiger
      @workhardtiger 2 месяца назад +2

      ​​@@HolyPhlebotinumI have a different theory (I wrote a comment about it under this video) but yours is great also! Cain and Abel ties wonderfully with the biblical themes of the show! That's why I love this show so much, creates great discussions

    • @ChannelNamePending699
      @ChannelNamePending699  2 месяца назад +4

      I was hoping someone would appreciate that 🙏😂

    • @michaelklaus
      @michaelklaus 2 месяца назад

      @@HolyPhlebotinum personally I think that happens when he causes the incident in the power plant; it is the only time we see the middle aged version alone and the knot only needs a copy of him;

  • @michaelklaus
    @michaelklaus 2 месяца назад +4

    27:50 no you don't
    29:49 since Katharina isn't 30+ years old here... well... young Katharina is not, it definitely was a different pregnancy; I always found it so sad that Helene is so... I don't even know, traumatised? a bit crazy? religious? all of the above? when middle-aged Katharina calls her mom she assumes that she is the child she had gotten rid off 33 years ago... who then somehow comes around as an adult to torment her!? what???
    35:10 most people do not notice this and only care about the wings; it is also interesting that Jonas' wound is basically the same as Martha's and that both coincide with a symbol for the origin; this season has tried it's best to tell you that the Unknown was the origin and Jonas here (involuntarily) gives his blood to create him in a way; in season two however Martha's wound was kinda foreshadowed in the dream of Stranger-Jonas as the god-particle came flooding from Martha's belly in that; that dream of course could also be interpreted as the particle coming form her womb after them getting it on... so the show does seem to form a connection between the child of Jonas and (either) Martha and the particle;
    I still remember this total confusion; my only solution was to binge it to the end... and then to rewatch it because I wasn't sure that I understood what I just saw
    39:15 when you think about Urlich got the skills of his great great great grandmother; Helge survived Ulrich's stone attack and Katharina survived Helene's stone atttack (she drowned afterward); you know, since Ulrich is his own great great grandfather (on Martha's side) and also his own great great great grandfather (on Jonas' side)
    1:00:00 while it is kinda unspokenly adressed in the show I still want to point out that if you look at the meioses of the oocytes that form Elisabeth and Charlotte they are haploid cells that do in fact have the exact same genetic make up; only in this way can we explain how the genetic information can be inherited and passed down between them without breaking this closed loop; as somebody else said, it is improbable but not impossible; and improbabilities are exactly the issues that drive people here nuts
    1:16:25 it is very interesting that in the next episode Eva claims that this is the case; she thinks that somehow these two loops feed back into one another with the help of the "two loops" from her world; it is obviously problematic; but one has to realize that she is a highschool dropout who simply knows only what the Claudias tell her and what she and her son keep telling themselves
    ...
    then again it is very very close to what is going on and you would probably get there on your own if only you were aware of the scientific theory that shapes our understanding of the concepts of timelines and parallel worlds in fiction since 1957;
    1:20:22 he said the thing!!!

    • @ChannelNamePending699
      @ChannelNamePending699  2 месяца назад +2

      Helene and Katharina's story is very tragic. I think in the moment she genuinely convinced herself this woman was a ghost sent from hell (her unborn daughter?) The recognition was already bothering her, and then Katharina calling her "mom" just confirmed it.
      We noticed that the God Particle forming in Martha's womb represented the Unknown but didn't realize it was in the same place she got shot!
      I'm a biology minor and the genetic paradoxes/improbabilities in this show hurt my brain.

  • @andisasawittwice5224
    @andisasawittwice5224 2 месяца назад +12

    This episode is GUT WRENCHING! You guys are getting so close to the end, I'm both bummed and super excited for you

  • @soniakronk
    @soniakronk 2 месяца назад +17

    17:17 She's wearing Franziska's sweater 😭

  • @jd1328
    @jd1328 2 месяца назад +27

    Saddest dark episode

  • @juniorIopess
    @juniorIopess 2 месяца назад +6

    The most chaotic episode of all time. Also, great catch on noticing Martha looking at that place weirdly, I was waiting for you guys to realize it with this episode!! You are both geniuses!! It’s very fun to see how this show still can bring surprises after so much.

  • @Taromisaki666
    @Taromisaki666 2 месяца назад +11

    I think we should from now on refer to you as "professor Manny".

  • @HaraldSeiwert
    @HaraldSeiwert 2 месяца назад +7

    You two are the best. Figured it all out by yourself, 3 episodes before the rest of us 😀. And they casted two times real life father and son. One you already found out (young Peter / old Peter) and from the creepy trio the old one and the middle aged "origin".

  • @ChannelNamePending699
    @ChannelNamePending699  2 месяца назад +10

    The discussion has two parts!
    Part 1 (Immediate post-episode discussion): 35:23
    Part 2 (Pre-episode 6 discussion/theories): 1:00:00
    There was a whole section where we theorized about who Tannhaus's missing granddaughter might be, but since that ultimately didn't go anywhere and the video was already long as is, I cut it out. I've included a link to it as a separate, unlisted video in the description for anyone who might still be interested in watching it.

  • @xiongrey19
    @xiongrey19 2 месяца назад +3

    We absolutely looked at the screens and such while it was coming out.

  • @askyeyv7039
    @askyeyv7039 2 месяца назад +8

    29:30 Helene first kills her own daughter just to few hours later beat the shit out of the same daughter, in that order and it somehow makes sense lmao

  • @goawayinternet
    @goawayinternet 2 месяца назад +4

    Every time I rewatch I have the thought... THIS episode truly lives up to the name of the show lol

  • @SubKween
    @SubKween 2 месяца назад +4

    The familial connections between Charlotte Elisabeth and Franciska are wild. Not just the ones most discussed. Elisabeth is Franciska's sister and grandmother. Franciska is Charlotte's daughter and aunt.

    • @ChannelNamePending699
      @ChannelNamePending699  2 месяца назад +6

      Charlotte is married to her own grandpa. Peter is Elisabeth's father and son-in-law.

  • @CraigUdy
    @CraigUdy 2 месяца назад +4

    Love, love, love your reactions and theories!

  • @Groffili
    @Groffili 19 дней назад +1

    The point that "you can't have the same child again" is a great observation... but beside the point. Here in this case, the narrative supercedes the physicality. Yes, _technically,_ this would be impossible. But the story wants/needs it to happen... so it does. There is just _one_ "Cain", and he fathers both Trontes in both worlds.
    They don't even have to be identical. In World Beta, it's Franziska who is deaf/mute, and Elisabeth can speak. That's an inherent difference, not based on some personal choice. But they still need to be identical enough for the audience to identify them and relate to them.
    The story is more important than any implied "reality".

  • @cristinanadasan8780
    @cristinanadasan8780 2 месяца назад +4

    we actually saw Martha wearing the white dress at the Katharina and Ulrich party, when she and Jonas went upstare, and did it for the first time. ( season 2, episode 5 or 6) if I m not wrong. - for minute 2:40

  • @ManifoldMold
    @ManifoldMold 2 месяца назад +4

    The fact that the editors had to go through more than 9 hours of footage of alt-Martha shooting Jonas just to create a less than 5 minute scene is insane.
    23:53 Erit Lux is located in the 2019 caves. It makes sense that it is accessible through the cave-entry since Sic Mundus was also located in the caves. The HQ already existed in the early 19th century before the church and elevator technology existed, so there had to be a different entrance.
    35:32 it could be the exact same gun. Adam uses the gun he used to kill Martha with also for the situation in which he would have killed Eva. Maybe he leaves the gun with Eva's body (?)

    • @peterretep4009
      @peterretep4009 2 месяца назад +1

      I think that gun is every firearm we see, except the ones from the police, army, and power-plant security, or the shotgun Noah uses to kill Claudia.
      Some of the transitions are a bit vague, but I think the trajectory it goes through is :
      Alexander : used it for crime, hid it
      Hannah : found it, kept it for 34 years, leaves it behind
      Middle-aged Jonas : takes it to force Martha into the bunker, presumably still has it on him as he travels to the past with Magnus etc
      Noah : presumably gets it from Jonas/Adam, uses it to try to kill Adam
      Agnes : kills Noah with it, presumably returns it to Adam eventually
      Adam : uses it to kill Martha, and later Eva, possibly leaving it behind as you mention, where it is eventually found by Martha or the Unknown
      Unknown : uses it to threaten the government dude w.r.t. the power plant permit
      Martha : uses it to shoot Jonas
      (not sure about the relative order of those last 2 events from the PoV of the gun)

    • @ManifoldMold
      @ManifoldMold 2 месяца назад

      @peterretep4009 not quite all guns you listed in your exceptions. The gun Jonas uses on himself is a different one (we also see it in the Stranger's room in the hotel); Claudia uses a different one as well to kill her alt-self and the young Unknown used a different one too to threaten the mayor.

    • @ChannelNamePending699
      @ChannelNamePending699  2 месяца назад

      9 HOURS?? I'm gonna need some answers lol, how on earth did that take 9 hours to shoot

    • @ManifoldMold
      @ManifoldMold 2 месяца назад

      ​​@@ChannelNamePending699 I just checked it again; I was mistaken; it was more like 8 hours of raw footage. I have no idea how they got to that number lmao
      But the editor for the scene said this in a podcast once haha

  • @rini6
    @rini6 2 месяца назад +5

    One of the most devastating episodes.

  • @midtwilightblue
    @midtwilightblue 2 месяца назад +7

    Probably the most painful episode 😖
    The theory of the Jonas getting Claudia after her father’s accident I can see that being true.
    Remember there are two young Jonas’ because in S1 when Mikkel disappeared in the cave we were told by him as Michael that Jonas B came and took him through after Jonas A and him separated

  • @connnnnnnnnj
    @connnnnnnnnj 2 месяца назад +1

    Katharina’s mum killing Katharina and then going home and beating up Katharina is just awful. How brutal can you get. Katharina’s actress did an amazing job too, you can see how scared she still is of her mother when she confronts her.
    I think Katharina’s mum is just a very very damaged individual, you don’t have an abortion at that age without experiencing a lot of trauma.

  • @wonderwomanmillow2281
    @wonderwomanmillow2281 2 месяца назад +2

    This episode destoys me every time... More tragic than 2.6... Greetings from Germany❤

  • @guidaecho4861
    @guidaecho4861 2 месяца назад +4

    love your reaction videos, you're the best.

  • @goawayinternet
    @goawayinternet 2 месяца назад +3

    also Katerina is one of my favorite characters. RIP

  • @WitzyZed
    @WitzyZed 2 месяца назад +4

    Claudia's eyes would be identical if they're both in the same location. It's when they're hopping from welt to welt that the scars, eyes, etc. change orientation.
    (small potatoes though, love the reactions and series)

  • @AmarthwenNarmacil
    @AmarthwenNarmacil 2 месяца назад +1

    I actually did pause for the tree at the time. And as soon as I saw that Bartosz is Noah's father, I stopped (it was the only connection I saw that I did not already know). I realized in that moment that I prefer to go into shows completely blind. For example, I since stopped watching trailers and I do no longer pause to look at stuff for any show. I know this is different for everyone, but for the connections I did not see (for exampel Silja), it was so much more satisfying to see whose child she was in episode 7 and I honestly was a bit disapointed that I did not have the same experience with Noah and Agnes. I think the people who warn about looking too closely at the tree had a similar experience and are just trying to help and protect others from a similar disapointment.
    Now of course the tree is not a spoiler since it is shown on the show and I totally get that for people like you, who like to disect every episode in detail, you feel different and that is ok. I'm curious to watch your reactions and hear your thoughts on the remaining episodes!

    • @ChannelNamePending699
      @ChannelNamePending699  2 месяца назад +2

      I understand where you're coming from. I also refuse to watch trailers, look at leaks, or search things up as I agree that going in blind is the best way to consume any media.
      I can at least say this: after watching the final episodes, we didn't regret our decision to look at the tree, nor did we feel that it ruined our viewing experience in any way. Actually I'm kind of glad we did, as it helped certain things make more sense in the moment (for example what Alt-Egon was doing at the end of episode 6, which would've left us very confused otherwise). I understand how some people might have felt disappointed finding out the way we did, but at least for my part episode 7/8 still blew us away even if we knew the reveal "ahead of time." Because for me, episode 7 was less about the reveals and more about showing the final missing pieces of these characters' journeys and highlighting the inevitability of it all.
      And I maintain my opinion that anything shown in the show is not a spoiler - otherwise we wouldn't be able to look at other things like Adult Martha's family tree in the bunker. The showrunners know what they're doing, and if they *really* didn't want us to see those specific connections, they would've shown it from certain angles, or had it partially hidden. Instead, there are close-ups of it, and multiple shots that hold on the entire tree for several seconds - most notably the final shot of episode 5. If anything, that *was* the reveal, not what we were shown in episode 7.

    • @AmarthwenNarmacil
      @AmarthwenNarmacil 2 месяца назад +1

      @@ChannelNamePending699 I'm glad you had the experience that was best for you! And as I said, I agree it is not a spoiler. I think not to look at it at all is almost impossible, even without pausing, so I would say the reveal is a mix between the moments where the trees are shown and the rest of the episodes (especially episode 7). Btw, did you see there is one connection on Eva's tree that she got wrong?

    • @ChannelNamePending699
      @ChannelNamePending699  2 месяца назад

      ​@@AmarthwenNarmacilYes, Tronte/Claudia ---> Regina :) I imagine that was Claudia or Alt-Claudia's doing, keeping the deception going

  • @Valentin_I
    @Valentin_I 2 месяца назад +2

    After the finale, there will be a lot to discuss. Paradoxes will remain, the solution of which I see in my own theory.

  • @geraldineetv7312
    @geraldineetv7312 2 месяца назад +3

    The actor of young peter is the son of the actor of old peter 🎉

    • @b3z3jm3nny
      @b3z3jm3nny 2 месяца назад

      46:33 they found out lol

  • @svenkampen1647
    @svenkampen1647 2 месяца назад +3

    Alexander Tiedemann/Boris Niewald is just the biggest red herring of the series he always seems way mroe involved than he actually is.

    • @AmarthwenNarmacil
      @AmarthwenNarmacil 2 месяца назад +2

      I would argue that he is not just a red herring, his backstory and the way it catches up with him is also a (in my opinion brilliant) mcguffin to trigger the apocalypses in both worlds. They could have come up with any reason for opening the barrels (or another way to trigger it entirely), but they managed to make it plausible, interesting AND make you wonder how his mystery is connected to all the other mysteries.

    • @svenkampen1647
      @svenkampen1647 2 месяца назад +3

      @@AmarthwenNarmacil Sure, but I meant that the first episode makes it look like hium and his power plant is at the root of it all and the disapperances, which he has nothing to do with. And then the show makes it look like he black mailed by Hannah would do something major, but Ulrich disappears for unrelated reasons, and we fight out about the mysterious past, fake identity and the fact he killed a guy and still he is really kinda unrelated to the mainplot and the timeloop and the family connections and the apocalypse. He never finds out about the time travel him unleashing the apocalypse is completely coincidental on his part.

  • @artemis2569
    @artemis2569 2 месяца назад +3

    All the characters in this show are tragic, there isn't one person that is happy except for maybe Magnus and Franziska.

  • @Alexandra_Basileia
    @Alexandra_Basileia 2 месяца назад +9

    Spoiler: Wöller's eye triggers the apocalypse.

    • @BlueDress-eb9qz
      @BlueDress-eb9qz 2 месяца назад +3

      Oh, so that's what's hidden in the barrels!

  • @BrainBox_NoThoughts
    @BrainBox_NoThoughts 2 месяца назад +1

    I've been looking forward to this - Count Dooku

  • @gin26th
    @gin26th Месяц назад +1

    There's dark and there's this episode

  • @Whistler4u
    @Whistler4u 2 месяца назад +7

    Martha's white dress is the one she's wearing at the party in s206. The party where both her parents were already dead.
    btw I never pause a show. If it's meant to be read it's meant to be read. I paused on a rewatch though. Think it's more fun to be surprised.

    • @ChannelNamePending699
      @ChannelNamePending699  2 месяца назад +1

      Thank you! I was racking my brain trying to figure out if we'd seen that dress outside of a dream sequence.
      Imo if it's on-screen it's meant to be read and I don't regret reading it; I don't think it affected our enjoyment of episode 7.

  • @Valentin_I
    @Valentin_I 2 месяца назад +1

    Very interesting theories, but everything is a little easier 😄

  • @SubKween
    @SubKween 2 месяца назад +2

    Katerina could have potentially succeeded in freeing Ulrich but not in getting Mikkel back to the future. Michael existed. Time wouldn't have allowed it. 22:59

  • @jimralston7562
    @jimralston7562 2 месяца назад +2

    The definition of "dark" is Dark episode 3x5.

  • @workhardtiger
    @workhardtiger 2 месяца назад +2

    I think Cain/Tronte stuff could be understood by delving into Grandfather Paradox theory and Novikov self-consistency principle (which Dark is structured around I believe). Overall, I suggest reading about it just because it's a very interesting read! Also, you finished the series so I can say this now! (HEAVY SPOILERS) In my understanding, alt-world and first world are copies of each other created in one instant which means every single person in them was born the same way, so it allows time to basically fix any paradoxes that could arise? All of this story revolves around Jonas and Martha. They were created after Tannhaus made a mistake while creating his time machine, Jonas and Martha both are anagrams (Martha = MARek TAnnhaus and Jonas = Sonja). So, thus the (two) worlds were created: Jonas and Martha in the first world and only Martha in alt-world because there was a slight change - Mikkel stayed home. Yet Jonas still exists in alt-world because he travels there in order to create the origin point of the loop system already existing around them in both worlds. In order to achieve this, time and space basically create ways for this to happen by Eve perpetuating the cycle of manipulation of Jonas (=resolving the paradox like in Novikov's self-consistency principle). So,
    1) Jonas and Martha should always exist since they are Adam and Eve, first humans created by God/Time (Adam even says that God is Time in season 2 I think)
    2) For them to exist, there should be the same process/family tree in each world only with some slight deviations (that should be self-correcting like with Jonas not being born in alt-world but still existing there)
    This allows Unknown/Cain (as all-father of the loop) to create Tronte twice.
    What I mean by this is time will literally not allow Unknown/Cain to create a different child, it should always be Tronte in both worlds (time allows only for small changes like the color of his hair for e.g.). The loop would simply not exist, the first humans (Adam and Eve) would not exist and time will not allow for this. It's basically the same thing happening as with Jonas trying to kill himself but time stopping him because that's not what happens. Btw, this scene creates a great discussion about the existence of free will. "Man can do what he wills, but he cannot will what he wills"
    That's my understanding, hope it makes sense!

    • @workhardtiger
      @workhardtiger 2 месяца назад +1

      I also love that this correlates with your thoughts on Cain not being the true origin (if I understood your point correctly). Adam really doesn't understand the way this game is played in the end, which makes total sense considering he is a high school dropout who learns all of this through Claudia, and she is playing her own game. Claudia is the only person with any formal education on nuclear physics, so she sees the full picture and understands that the loop is self-perpetuating, so there should be something beyond it, the true origin.

    • @ChannelNamePending699
      @ChannelNamePending699  2 месяца назад +3

      This was an extremely interesting read, thank you. I can totally see this as a possibility given the way this show does things. I think in 3x7 (or maybe in an earlier episode, I forget) I mention how there almost seems to be an intelligence to the design of these worlds and their Knot, as if the universe itself orchestrated it. I was just thinking about what this means for whether free will exists when you mentioned it yourself lol.
      I think - just for the sake of my own sanity - I still slightly lean towards the theory that Cain used the switch point to 'duplicate' himself and meet either Agnes or Alt-Agnes. This is supported by Eva mentioning that he "alternately gives life in both worlds," though it's not explicitly confirmed. This theory was suggested by @ManifoldMold in the 3x3 comments. I think it makes the most sense, although your explanation is still very believable.
      Also I think it's hilarious that you referred to Adam as a high school dropout. For that matter, so is Eva. Claudia is the real GOAT of the series.

    • @workhardtiger
      @workhardtiger 2 месяца назад +2

      @@ChannelNamePending699 Yes, I've seen the theory of duplication too and I honestly love it! Just the implication of a potential Cain/Abel situation makes me giddy, that would be such a cool plot point. It could also co-exist with my theory of time fixing paradoxes by allowing duplication in the moment of creation, I think.
      Yeah, it's so funny to me that Adam and Eva were just two teens who never finished high school and were thrown into this wild life. Claudia is the GOAT! I love her so much, what a powerhouse of a woman. She basically fixed the whole time and space continuum so her daughter could have a better life. That's dedication!

    • @heyiambored4024
      @heyiambored4024 Месяц назад

      Seriously consider getting a job

  • @lannilannisters1370
    @lannilannisters1370 2 месяца назад +2

    💚

  • @masteronionnorth2341
    @masteronionnorth2341 2 месяца назад +6

    By far, the bleakest episode of the series. There is just so much death and despair. And yet another example of three. It's everywhere in this series. Everywhere... 😵

  • @AP-RSI
    @AP-RSI 2 месяца назад

    When you think of Adam and Eve, you should remember that Eve took the apple from the serpent and that is why they were expelled from paradise!
    BTW: You have to remember that Katharina's mother was a ‘child’ when she had an abortion. And believe me, back then it wasn't that easy, it was very, very painful for her! There was also the religious aspect that her child would end up in hell (fanaticism). That's why she's been traumatised ever since! She took this trauma out on Katharina. Nevertheless - in my opinion - Katharina didn't have to become exactly like that, but she became a bully!
    There is a German (?) film with the name ‘Die Engelmacherin’ (The Angel Maker - as far as I can remember, but it may have been called something else...). Back then, women who secretly performed abortions on other women for money were called ‘Engelmacher’. And this was not medically professional, but extremely brutal and a trauma for every woman (or girl) at the time!
    Of course, I don't want to excuse Katharina's mother's behaviour, but it has practically passed from her mother to her and she has become just as brutal as her mother.
    This was a really dark DARK episode!

    • @ChannelNamePending699
      @ChannelNamePending699  2 месяца назад +3

      I disagree that Katharina was anywhere near as bad as her mom. I definitely have sympathy for Helene and what she went through, but like you said, unfortunately Katharina suffered for it. Katharina, however, refused to continue the cycle of abuse. From what we saw, pre-season 1 Katharina was nothing but loving and gentle towards her children. There's the moment when she slaps Martha in season 1, but that was in the heat of the moment after Martha said Mikkel was dead, and she immediately felt bad about it. She was also neglecting Martha and Magnus, but her youngest son was missing and who can blame her?
      Yes, she became a bully as a teenager. I like to think she eventually grew out of it, though of course we can't overlook her old behavior resurfacing with Regina and Hannah (though it's not as if Hannah didn't deserve the pushback). But one of the biggest points in her favor, I think, is how she also chose to become a principal - a role in which she was responsible for fostering and facilitating children. I think this shows that at least to a certain extent she was able to overcome her trauma from childhood abuse and try to be better than her mom.
      It's a very nuanced and complicated situation of course. But in my opinion Katharina was definitely better as a mother and a person than Helene ever was.

    • @AP-RSI
      @AP-RSI 2 месяца назад

      Katharina tied Regina up in the woods as a teenager (with Ullrich) and bullied her! She did this before she thought that Regina had reported Ullrich to the police!
      She later did everything (even as an adult) with a lot of violence! This would have been impossible for a director of a school in Germany! She also physically attacked Regina when she insulted her! Katharina knew nothing but violence! Which she constantly showed (e.g. kicking in doors).
      In Germany she would be labelled a bully for something like that! I have no sympathy for people like that!
      She never left the cycle of violence that she learnt from her mother. Even with her own mother she ended up being violent!
      However, she treated her children better. At least until the moment she tried to save Ullrich. From then on, she almost didn't care about her children! That's why there were arguments between her and the children! And she just left them behind! A loving mother would probably not do this, not even for her husband!
      But the whole show demonstrates how people can be and how selfish some become (i.e.Claudia).

    • @ChannelNamePending699
      @ChannelNamePending699  2 месяца назад +2

      ​​@@AP-RSI​@AP-RSI Yes, I brought up her bullying in my own comment. My opinion still stands.
      Katharina, despite changing for the better, still "relapsed" into her old behavior with Regina, Hannah. But I can empathize with her without justifying her actions. For one, consider her situation - her son had been missing for days, and everyone's emotions were at an all-time high. You cannot know the sheer pain, fear, and worry of a loved one going missing for an extended period without having gone through it yourself. I sympathize with almost *anyone* in that situation.
      Katharina shouldn't have attacked Regina, absolutely. But as bad as I feel for Regina, I don't consider her an innocent victim in that situation - she taunted a mother whose child was missing, specifically attacking that weak point to make it hurt. Over grievances with Ulrich and Kat from 33 years ago. Frankly, no one was innocent in that situation.
      With Hannah, this is a woman who'd been obsessed with her husband since childhood and was having a months-long affair with him. Also not a victim.
      And I'm not sure what you mean when you say she abandoned Mikkel/her kids when she tried to save Ulrich. #1, she had just confirmed that Mikkel was no where she could reach at the moment, so there wasn't much she could do there. #2, at the same time she'd found out that her husband had been stuck there in asylum for 34 years after trying to save Mikkel himself. You're telling me she should've just left him there? She even tells him she'll get him out, and they'll get Mikkel back. She did not "leave Mikkel alone."
      And as for her other kids, yes, it's questionable to leave them alone, but Mikkel was gone and I wouldn't have expected anything less than a mother doing everything in her power to get her son back if she could. Saving Ulrich was not abandoning her kids, it was her trying to reunite her entire family.
      If you don't feel sympathy for her, that's okay, but I certainly do. Her situation is nuanced and complex and not at all black and white. Dark isn't interested in presenting characters that are all "good" or all "bad" (with minor exceptions). If I can feel awful for Noah, I can definitely sympathize with Katharina.

    • @AP-RSI
      @AP-RSI 2 месяца назад

      @@ChannelNamePending699 I can't adopt your attitude to this, but I can accept it!

  • @Valentin_I
    @Valentin_I 2 месяца назад +1

    100% 😁

  • @Bman-dr8hx
    @Bman-dr8hx 2 месяца назад

    there is only one Agnes. "Cain" and Agnus have Tronte, Tronte has Ulrich, Ulrich, has Magnus, Martha, and Mikkel. At this point Beta and Alphas past is the Same. Alpha: Mikkel goes back in time Martha dies. Beta: Mikkel does not go back in time. that is what diverges the worlds.

    • @svenkampen1647
      @svenkampen1647 2 месяца назад +2

      There is an Agnes in each world so there is two Agnes. Only the Unknown character and Jonas exist only in one universe. The unknown in Eva's world, because in Adam's world Martha dies and Jonas in Adam's world because Mikkel does not travel back in Eva's world..

    • @Bman-dr8hx
      @Bman-dr8hx 2 месяца назад

      @@svenkampen1647 The Unknown had sex with Agnes. Both earths had similar history up until 1986 or 2019 depending on how you look at it. Adam's World Mikkel goes back in time. Eve's world he does not. "Splitting the earth in two" causing duplicates of the same people. The Uknown only had sex with one Agnes. So yes there is two Agness, but the Uknown only had sex with one.

  • @gerfrancis
    @gerfrancis 2 месяца назад +7

    Helena had a tragic life too, being so young and having abortions means your life is not easy...and who is the man / who are the men that impregnate Helena? We never see Katharina's dad with her or with Helena. It does not justify anything, I know, but it gives some background info, that tells me life has not been easy... a tragic episode that ruines me everytime I see it 😢

    • @SubKween
      @SubKween 2 месяца назад +2

      If you look at the family tree, his last name is Albers which means he is likely a relative of Helene.

    • @gerfrancis
      @gerfrancis 2 месяца назад

      @SubKween yeah, i know, I didn't want ro spoil that 😁. I also heard from someone that he is her brother (?) And that he was the shepherd of the 33 dead sheeps in 1986?

    • @ChannelNamePending699
      @ChannelNamePending699  2 месяца назад +2

      ​@@gerfrancisNot sure if Hermann is Helene's brother (I don't think it's confirmed how they're related), but yes he does appear in 1x3 in the scene with Egon and the sheep. IIRC it's one of his two appearances in the show, with the second being Mads's funeral scene in 3x2.

  • @azekeprofit
    @azekeprofit 2 месяца назад

    You take issue with Cain having the exact same son (Tronte) in both dimensions but let two Charlottes who are their own grandmothers pass?

    • @ChannelNamePending699
      @ChannelNamePending699  2 месяца назад +3

      To be fair I also questioned the genetic plausibility of Charlotte and Elisabeth.

    • @workhardtiger
      @workhardtiger 2 месяца назад +2

      @@ChannelNamePending699 as far as I understand, it's genetically possible just because it's a bootstrap paradox. It's a closed loop system and it just always existed, time took care of it.

  • @gemelwalters2942
    @gemelwalters2942 2 месяца назад

    Is it worse than Helge? Elizabeth lost her father but she was largely unharmed. Both are horrible incidents for any child to experience but getting your skull bashed in is arguably worse on many levels.

    • @ChannelNamePending699
      @ChannelNamePending699  2 месяца назад +6

      Yeah both are insanely messed up. At least with Helge, technically no one died in that incident. He survived - albeit with lifelong physical and mental trauma - but he at least lived.
      Peter died with his last thought probably being that he couldn't protect his daughter, and that she was now left undefended from whatever that man was going to do to her. Elisabeth survived, but she lost who she thought was her last living family member, along with the added trauma of nearly being SA'd and then brutally killing her would-be assaulter, all in the span of a few minutes. To me personally, it felt worse than Helge's, but again it's not a competition and my opinions aren't shared by everybody.

    • @Valentin_I
      @Valentin_I 2 месяца назад

      Elizabeth is a poor-poor girl 😭

  • @fredforlautLP
    @fredforlautLP 2 месяца назад +2

    This is the episode where most people at some point go: "fuck this shit, i'm with jonas, this knot needs to stop existing.
    Also i love that there are three similar threes: Future, present and past; world 1, 2 and the original, and finally 3 overlapping realities: jonas who becomes adam, jonas who is the father of the unknown and jonas who goes back to the original world.
    But yeah, there are a lot of threes in dark.

    • @ChannelNamePending699
      @ChannelNamePending699  2 месяца назад +2

      I ultimately don't side with Adam *or* Eva but I won't lie, this episode definitely made me think that maybe Adam has a point lol

  • @gemelwalters2942
    @gemelwalters2942 2 месяца назад

    This episode is where I felt the show fell down slightly, not the entire episode but with Martha. I think having 3 versions of Jonas with 33 years in between makes perfect sense as to how his ideology and beliefs could change over time. Having Martha with several versions so close in age, makes it hard to believe she just changes her mind within a few days of each other. One minute she loves Jonas and another she was ok shooting him, it just didn't work for me.

    • @SubKween
      @SubKween 2 месяца назад +4

      Because no man should come first before your child. As soon as Martha found out she had a son to protect, that was her main focus.

    • @gemelwalters2942
      @gemelwalters2942 2 месяца назад

      @@SubKween Sure, I might believe that if we were talking to middle aged Martha who had the child and raised it, not young Martha who hasn't experienced any of that. That idea isn't the problem, it's the execution.
      Also the "man" as you put it, is the reason she has the child. It's someone she supposedly loved later pledges to save (as she says to Jonas when she saved him), not someone who abused her or did her some wrong so I don't subscribe to that whole man or child argument.

    • @rkivEternity
      @rkivEternity 2 месяца назад +9

      The Martha who killed Jonas has the knowledge that he is Adam who is trying to destroy her world with everything and everyone she knows and loves including her unborn child it is not that farfetched that she chose all that over the boy she just met js 😅

    • @gemelwalters2942
      @gemelwalters2942 2 месяца назад +1

      @@rkivEternity The same thing happened to Jonas and he did not kill Martha until 66 years later. The catalyst was different but the action, him killing her or her killing him is the same. She just got that information 5mins ago from someone she doesn't even know. Again, the premise is not the issue, it's the time in between.
      Jonas received a lot of the same information Martha did, at the same age. Then it takes him 33 years to not be Claudia's pawn and then another 33 to embrace being Adam. She embraces being Eva in a few days. Jonas fought becoming Adam for years, she didn't and that's what didn't work for me. Just accepting everything as truth in such a short time felt out of place for the series.

    • @ChannelNamePending699
      @ChannelNamePending699  2 месяца назад +1

      I also thought about how little time there was between her witnessing Jonas die and killing him herself. I'm a little more willing to let it slide, for reasons others have already listed above, but I think you raise some valid points.

  • @Whistler4u
    @Whistler4u 2 месяца назад +1

    You're always alive at some point.

  • @anxdem
    @anxdem 2 месяца назад +2

    WAIT!! HOLD ON
    I'm seven minutes in the reaction BUT you mean to tell me you both finished the series without knowing that on netflix. io there's the whole family tree based on episode watched and season?!?
    WOW, i'm honestly gonna say i'm impressed cause when season 3 came out with the family tree i was glad i didn't have to keep count of all the connections. 😭

    • @ChannelNamePending699
      @ChannelNamePending699  2 месяца назад

      We did know about it and checked it a couple times in early season 1 but we haven't really needed it since then 😅