Do you need to follow the 180 degree shutter rule?
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- Опубликовано: 15 сен 2024
- When it comes to video cameras, there are 3 ways to control exposure internally on the camera: ISO, Aperture, and Shutter Speed/Angle. ISO affects noise performance, Aperture controls depth of field and Shutter Speed determines motion blur. All too often I see videos shot at different shutter speeds with varying amount of motion blur but is there really such a thing as "the right way to do it?"
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From Wikipedia: "A rotary disc shutter is a type of shutter. It is notably used in motion picture cameras. Rotary discs are semicircular mirrors that rotate in front of the film gate, and thus expose the film. As the mirror spins it reflects the image onto the ground glass so that it can be viewed by the camera operator part of the time. The other part of the time the mirror allows the light to pass onto the film. On simple cameras this shutter is fixed and usually semi-circular. On more advanced cameras the shape of the shutter can be adjusted. This shutter setting is referred to as the shutter angle.
Adjusting the shutter angle controls the proportion of time that the film is exposed to light during each frame interval. The angle of the shutter forms a proportion to the time that each frame of film is exposed."
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For high frame rate movies is better to use a 360 deg shutter. the hobbit 48fps was shoot at 270 deg angle. For 60fps or 120fps is better to use 360. Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk 120fps was shoot at 360 deg. Like I said the 180 deg rule must to be avoided at such high frame rates. The 180 rule is to maintain a natural amount of motion blur when shooting at low frame rates. at high frame rates is not needed and it will eliminate all the motion blur making the motion to look unnatural.
This is the answer I've been looking for for quite a while. I knew that following the 180 shutter rule blindly must have had its downsides.
I've been shooting my dad's Zumba channel with 25 fps, 1/50, but I noticed that I didn't have enough frames during the dynamic workout - it seemed too jarring.
I decided to shoot 50 fps still using 1/100, but noticed 1/100 didn't seem natural when I playing in real-time playback. I tried going down to 1/50 (360°), and ended up with the best visually appealing results.
@@x_jaydn Very well explained here: wipster.io/blog-for-creative-teams-who-want-better-collaboration-tools/debunking-the-180-degree-shutter-rule
@@seventysevencats great resource. Confirms my suspicions.
I'm going to go on a new journey with this newly confirmed information 😎
the best is 50 fps with 1/50 shutter speed, you get 50/50=1, so every second is totally captured and the motion blur stays realistic, besides the shot is more fluid with the higher frame rate
I enjoyed your video. I have blindly followed the 180 rule for the last 20 years. I clicked on this because of all the buzz about shooting with the Gh5 at 179 to improve auto focus. I’m now thinking I might try a slow shutter speed the next time I have too shoot a musical act in a club.
After testing I like the look of a 360deg shutter at 60fps, and being played back at 60fps.
The main complaint about 360deg is too much motion blur, and at 24fps, you're getting lots of motion blur per 1/24sec frame, but at 60fps, 360deg is 1/60sec per frame, a very similar amount of motion blur to shooting 180deg at 24fps (1/48sec per frame). But there's the advantage of every movement being continuous, motion blur isn't stuttery like at 24fps.
When you shoot 180deg you are essentially only capturing light 50% of the time, so even with what appears to be nice blur, it's still missing motion paths and turning them into dashes, but your brain fills in the gaps. At 60fps 360deg, it's just as natural looking but puts less stress on the brain to fill in the gaps and carries more visual data. I would argue this is the closest frame rate, shutter speed, and angle to human vision.
But all of this is from me being a professional photographer, not a videographer or DP. I'd like to hear feedback
So Is shooting 360 degrees at 60fps recommended if i wanted to slow down that footage later?
Is it alot different then shooting 60fps with 120 shutter speed?
I think you want to go the opposite direction. For slow motion playback use the lower shutter angle like 48. Im going to test some of this out with my GH5 soon for slow motion (120 & 180 fps) and just standard 60fps playback
I'm not with Ted here, i'd say yes. Because you would have "just the right amount of motion blur" ( same as 180 at 30 fps, i think difference between 30 and 24 is not that noticeable, but of course ideal would be 48 fps/360°) You will get results in 0.5 speed as if you would film in 24/180° or 30/180°, but slower. the Motion blur will be exactly the same, but the additional images compensate information loss. Because as you are lowering framerate, the shutter speed won't go up through the editing. You can go down to 180 ° if you will slow down the whole clip and when there is a lot of motion in it. Because of higher sharpness it will be a bit more "sugar for your eyes".
but if you just film in 60 for "occasionally" slowing it down, I'd recommend 360° to be able to give the same result when rendered at 30 fps as if you shoot 30/180 and render at 30.
If you want to do super slowmos by rendering additional frames in between the existing ones with software like twixtor you should go with very short shutter speed, like mentioned in the video, because it will help the program to compute the frames
On my GH4, 60fps with a shutter of 360˚ looks beautiful and silky smooth. I have a film coming up and I'm tossing up between 48, 50, and 60fps. I imagine I will use a shutter of 360˚ for whatever frame-rate I chose but I'm going to have to do some tests as to what looks better when converted to 24fps because most film festivals won't accept high frame rates yet.
gemeinerhund @4:45 he switched from 180d to 90d and that reduces blur and is recommended for slow motion use.
I've watched around 10 videos about this topic and yours is definitely the best, thanks.
The "180-degree rule" is a misnomer in the digital age. No modern camera can duplicate the look of the revolving shutter of a film camera. Even when rolling shutter is not an issue (static shots), digital cameras produce temporal aliasing effects (strobing) that are quite visible in your examples above.
Here's the problem in relatively non-technical terms. The longer the shutter duration, the more motion blur is captured within each frame. However, the longer the gap between open-shutter periods, the more discontinuity (stobing) there is between sequential frames. In a 180-degree film camera, there was no perceptible gap between frames, because the revolving shutter would begin to open again as soon as it reached full closure. In physical terms, the smooth rotational motion of the shutter blades across the frame filtered out the harsh edges of the temporal discontinuities of 24fps sampling.
With a 180-degree digital camera, instead of the shutter continuously rotating in and out of frame, the sensor output is abruptly turned full-on and full-off for half the duration of each frame. (While rolling shutter produces a temporal offset from top to bottom of each frame, it doesn't alter the 180-degree timing of each scanline.) Just as with spatial alaising, these sharp temporal edges produce unnatural artifacts that appear to our eyes as stobing effects. If you watch the movements of your hands closely, you'll see that your sub-180-degree examples are full of discrete, quickly fading after-images. To minimize that, you need to shoot at 180-degrees OR MORE.
So why not shoot at 360-degrees and minimize the strobing effect? In your final example, you can see how smooth a result this produces. The drawback is that 360-degrees produces an excessive amount of motion blur within each frame, visibly smearing the details of moving objects. A compromise is necessary, and in practice, that depends on how quickly things move in each particular shot. With slow, graceful movements, 180-degrees gives a natural-looking blend, just enough detail without too much strobing. But for fast action sequences, strobing is very distracting and you can get away with a lot of motion blur. That's where a greater than 180-degree shutter can produce more pleasing results.
Thank you, for the useful comment.
One of the best instructional videos I have seen, and it cleared up my understanding of the rule. Thanks
If you were stranded on an island I think your rescue would be inevitable due to your ability to wave your hands for such a long time ,lol! This is an excellent teaching tool that will help many future filmmakers!
Your explanations combined with actual footage makes everything so easy to understand and appreciate.
Thank you!
Cheers, Pete
The 180° rule is 100% subjective. In fact I would argue that the 180° rule is only relevant to scenes where "normal" is the feeling you want to portray. Quite frankly I see it as an archaic rule that is only still in use because of the strong impact the film medium had until recently. Film is expensive and was not a friendly medium for experimenation so set in stone rules like that saved people lots time and money. Digital you can play with basically unhindered until you learn what you're looking for and move forward with that style. I'll admit that I'm a little biased coming from an action sports background with an expertise in high-speed cinematography, but I know I'm right here. Some of the most impressive visuals I've seen involved fast shutter angles. It gets on my nerves when people portray anything else as amateur or a sign that the filmer doesn’t know what he is doing. It's not so damned set in stone and I wish you would just be willing to explain the differences without telling people that they will look amateur for not doing this.
+BeyondSlowMotion But they will look like amateurs if they don't know what they are doing. I'm sure you've seen many shooters use shutter angle/speed to compensate for exposure rather than using NDs or stopping down because they want that shallow depth of field. So many student films and shorts have this problem.
My films have definitely suffered from this problem, though I know many successful filmmakers who likewise survive using high-shutter speed to stop down exposure while maintaining a low aperture. What's the best solution for run & gun filmmakers in your opinion? Vari-ND for each lens diameter? I've used a cokin ND set once, never considered other options like building a legitimate rig with a matte box or similar. Glad to see manufacturers starting to offer more legitimate video tools, like ND filters built into Canon's cinema bodies. Thanks for your informative video!
+Stronz Vanderploeg Just seeing this reply. That's some bullshit. This is 100% a subjective rule. You even mentioned how Mad Max used a wide variety of shutter speeds because there were good reasons for doing so. It changes the feel and tone of the shot and is thus just a tool for consideration when developing your scene. On the flip side of what you are saying, I've seen the 180 degree rule straight fuck up otherwise really cool shots. Especially when dynamic action is in play. For instance filming a YoYo player at a 1/48 shutter on a 24p timeline will turn the string invisible during a lot of movements.
Speaking to my specific expertise (I specialize in high-speed cinematography) if you ever want to shoot slow motion on a subject with anything more than super simple broad motions, a slow shutter will kill the aesthetic almost as fast as poor lighting.
My point here is that every rule and technique is subjective to your situation. Hard fast rules can be both helpful and detrimental
@@BeyondSlowMotion I'm with this guy here. I shoot on a GH5, and it makes more sense on a smaller sensor to compensate in lowlight by doubling my shutter angle than it does to bump my iso over 1600 if there isn't a ton of fast paced action in my scene. 99% of this video is for people who don't own ND filters and compensate with shutter speed. Low light is the opposite and your options are far fewer.
Wow, I cannot tell you how helpful this tutorial was. So encouraging the way you explain the "rules" of shutter speed. You've got a great teaching pace. The "waving arms" technique gives enough context that I can translate it to any situation. Thank you so much. I'm putting these basics into practice and can't wait to follow and break the rules of 180˙ shutter speed.
I'm noticing that shooting with a shutter 1/40 @24fps looks smoother than 1/50 on the a6500; I like the motion.
A better way to explain this is that...
(1) Human eyes DO NOT have a shutter. We do not see objects in motion as sequence discrete snapshots except when we are at a discotheque with the strobes going off. We see it as bury motion when things streak across our vision.
(2) Cameras capture video as a sequence of snapshots. If shutter speeds are very fast, objects captured in video will appear in one place then teleport to another without EVER transiting in between from frame to frame. This makes your video look like a discotheque with the strobes going off.
(3) If the frame rate of your video is extremely high -- say 3000 fps -- this strobe effect is irrelevant because it starts to mimic reality with objects taking more steps to get from one part of your vision to another than your eyes can resolve or your brain can process.
(4) However, since we make movies at relatively SLOW frame rates of 24, 30, 60 or 120 fps rather than thousands of frames a second, the "teleporting" or "strobe" effect becomes very apparent.
(5) By slowing down the shutter speed, objects in motion trails a blurry streak across our vision space filling in all the positions the objects would have been spotted by our eyes as they move in real life.
(6) The slower the shutter speed, the more it blurs. At a shutter speed of about twice the frame rate, it creates roughly the right amount of blur to fill it the spatial perception in between frames so it looks most realistic.
ok so 24fps, you need 1/48 or 50 shutter
but if you're shooting 50fps, why not use 1/50 shutter so that you maintain that blur?
@@OwenSullivan03 why? i thought the unnatural look comes from lack of blur as said on the video? what, then, is unnatural with 360 deg shutter?
As other people have said in terms of breaking the rule with 60fps, if you are going to film in 60fps with 1/60th, then slow it down to 30 or 24 fps, then you *should* have some footage that abides by that rule. I haven't really tried this in practice, but I did shoot some 30fps footage at night (which I slowed down to 24) and it didn't look that bad with the 360 degree shutter I used.
This isn't hugely important IMO and audiences won't spot much of a difference unless they're looking for it, so that's why I think a lot of people take the tempting offer to let twice as much light in for minimal difference in your footage.
Hi, and thanks a lot for THE lesson! Being a photographer for decades, I haven't really paid attention to this particular rule...
It's very important for video
You are right man. Unless you have a very specific reason, don't break the rule. Over so many years, 180 is the most closed to what eyes see. The 180 rule can be broke by some creative art works, but you should know why you break it! Great talk!
+JOKER STUDIO indeed! Thanks!
Great job demonstrating the differences, and thank you! I showed this to my director to convince him to let me vary the shutter angle for specific moments in our short film. However, I feel you could easily make your point with just a few seconds in each setting. You don't need 8 minutes to demonstrate the difference in shutter angle. Thanks again for your help!!
I agree with this rule. Break it when you understand what you get when you break it, and do it if that's the look you're trying to get. But for what the human eye sees, doubling the frame rate should be set and locked, then adjust ISO, aperture, or your ND filter to control exposure. If you're using continuous light, then adjust that as well. Crazy how much of a difference SS makes in video!
Thanks. Great post, as always. Just wanted to add that if you want to speed up movements and you are filming with lower frame rates, like 21 fps - a faster shutter speed than twice the framerate is sometimes a must to avoid TOO much motion blur.
Man, I've really learned something today (I'm a still photographer). Congratulations for your work and thank you very much.
You have a wonderful way to explain things. Just subscribed!
Well, for higher frame rates at 60fps and higher, I'm just starting to upgrade the quality of my videos with ND Filters on my GoPro Hero 7 Black, so I can shoot 60fps (1/60), 120fps (1/120) and 240fps (1/240) so the footage is completely immersive with no judder at all. I know it's benificial to watch on a normal 60hz monitor, a 120hz monitor and 240hz monitor to see just how smooth those 360 degree shutter videos would look. I also know that response time is like the shutter of your monitor. If the response time is 1ms at 240hz, you are getting essentially 240fps real time at 1/1000 shutter speed, and that's ONLY good for gaming. But I know since I can control the shutter of my videos to '360 degrees' (learning new names) at 240fps or 240hz, the videos should look completely real thereabouts especially after 60fps. But for slower frame rates such as 24fps, I'd stick to the 180 degree shutter rule up to 30fps.
I just want to thank you for a great tutorial! You present your case with ease and confidence, watching your videos is a lot fun. Again, learned a lot, please continue to inform us lesser-knowledged... Thank you so much!
The Omaha Beach scene in Saving Private Ryan was shot at a higher shutter rate, about 45 degrees, so it gave a sense of heightened realism or fear or confusion that the soldiers must have felt when running into that killing field.
180 deg shutter is just a baseline. It looks "best" based on what you want your results to be, according to what you're shooting. So, if you're going for that look, fine. It's also an archaic rule based partly on the way film cameras were constructed. You do mention that decreasing the angle yields a particular effect, which I might add is used to great effect in action scenes-as you mention.
I like the word 'convention' rather than 'rule.' It's easier to be unconventional than... what? Unruled? The best parts of this vid are the bits where you describe when being unconventional can be useful; in particular when shooting with the intention of slowing down in post. I'm not familiar with the tool you mention in passing but I'm certainly going to do some experimenting in DaVinci Resolve. Thanks! The capabilities expand continually and, as a result, conventions fail or fall based on our expanded possibilities. "Professional" versus "Amateur?" Those words are part of the convention discussion as well.
I don’t understand why people don’t just use a 360 degree shutter, it would make it so all your frames blend together seamlessly, and so there is no gap between frames during motion blur
Cool thx, saved me from having to shoot the varying speeds myself to see the differences!
Great info. While I can see the difference between shutter speeds it seems minor unless taken to extremes. You've got a great style and very informative videos looking forward to more.
it only looks the best if your are standing there with a static background. when filming lots of action to keep it crisp you want a faster shutter speed. now that im at the end of the Video you def covered it.. Nice vid! Action sports certainly is the excption to the rule.
I think this is a good fundamental tutorial. I like the examples. Well done.
Janusch Kaminski's choppy-looking, reduced shutter speeds in "Saving Private Ryan" is what popularized it's use. Now, every other action scene is shot this way because wannabe Spielberg's/Kaminski's thinks it looks "gritty and realistic". (When, in reality, as you observed, the human eye sees blurs.)
Excellent video. Thanks
Thank you!
Nice information, and I wouldn't disagree with it. However, there are some situations were using a higher shutter is absolutely necessary, and it having nothing to do with a stylized look. In the case of the Samsung NX1 when shooting 120fps slo-mo, I would not use a 180 degree of 1/240, it just doesn't look as good as using 1/125 shutter. The second situation is shooting 4K and wanting to grab stills from that for prints. A 1/48 shutter has way to much motion blur, so, in this situation you need to carefully plan when to bump that shutter for your grabs from the video, which depending upon what you plan to grab, should be set at no lower than a 1/125 shutter. Most Wedding videographers pulling stills from the 4K image, next to never shoot at 1/48th shutter.
Steve M. That's a great point Steve, if you plan on pulling stills from video, you ABSOLUTELY need to use a higher shutter speed but that's because with photography you rarely want motion blur so from the photography side, it makes sense to break the 180 shutter degree rule.
I'm not sure I agree with your slo-mo example but that might just be a preference of taste. If you're going to shoot high FPS and slow down to 30 or 24, you still want to retain a "normal" amount of motion blur so it still makes sense to follow the 180 degree shutter rule. If you shoot 120fps at 1/125, you can end up with too much motion blur and it can make the footage like it wasn't properly slowed down. But if you're only slowing down to 60fps then 1/125 would be following the 180 degree shutter rule. So might be a matter of taste or just what FPS you're finalizing.
The slo-mo within the NX1 1080p 120fps will default to 1/125th shutter, you can't go lower than that, nor would you want to for the reason of motion blur that you pointed out. The problem with following the 180 degree rule comes highly into play when you're shooting indoor, because you're going to have to bump that ISO way up introducing grain, even with a relatively fast lens. Outdoors, that can play to your advantage for knocking down the light. So, for me, unless you're lighting that indoor scene quite well, I personally would not shoot that at 1/240th avoiding high ISO settings.
That's a fair assessment, if you're worried about lack of light, then you might want to compromise on the shutter but the better solution would be to adequately light for 1/240th if you could.
I would never sacrifice the quality of the blur to grab stills at a wedding. That's the photographers job. And how many freakin times did he say in the video that it depends on what your doing. A rule can be broken.
outstanding explanation. learned a lot in 8 minutes, much thanks
Great video and to add to it - you can use a faster shutter when doing special effects. Especially on green screen with fast action, the last thing you want is motion blur. You can alway add motion blur on compositing the final image. The result of a fast shutter is much better keying when working in special effects.
In Europe electricity has a frequency of 50hz but I like to shot at 30fps so when I shoot inside I use 1/50 to avoid light flickering which is around 216°.
Hey! Just found this 3 year old video. I loved it. The motion blur you get with 180° isn't quite the same as _my_ eye gets. It's close, but I think the angle will be a _little higher._ I get a tiny bit more blur with my eye. It's not _much_ different, but the difference _is_ noticeable to my eye. I wonder if it's subjective and different people see a little different motion blur in the same situation? I'll have to get my camera and experiment. Thank you:)
There is someone else on RUclips describing this in a more technical way. You almost describe this with the old way of filming.
Motion blur is from the 1/50 of a second shutter. So if the shutter speed was set at 1/50 the blur would look the same at 24fps, 25fps, 30fps, 48fps and 50fps. If you want to make 60fps RUclips videos you don't need a shutter speed of 1/120. All of the shutter degree or angle is out of date with modern cameras. Modern cameras don't have the old rolling shutter spinning in a circle exposing film.
lmao have you used anything more expensive than a DSLR? The industry uses shutter angle almost exclusively.
In order to correctly mimic film cameras (including digital), you do have to shoot 1/120 - because that's how film cameras have, and still do, work. This is just ignorant misinformation.
Thanks for the vid! Well explained. I for some reason can only see the difference with extremes and with low fps. There is literally no discernible difference with 120fps imo. Even 1/640 looked normal to me when slowed down. But that’s just me. Thanks again.
Hello Stronz, thank you again for responding to my request I was able to set up my GH4. thank you again.
+gutusam88 No problem!
There really in no "best" shutter speed - it's a tool that can be adjusted for artistic effect. I personally prefer the natural look of 180 but the staccato look of other speeds certainly has it's place .
I don't like to follow "rules" in what regards creativity.
"People are use to see this type of motion" another reason to try something different sometimes, so that you stick apart from everyone else.
Just do whatever looks good for you. (Unless you shoot for someone that has specific needs)
That's my opinion on this.
I don't always have the luxury of sticking to 180. I don't always have the most ideal lighting conditions and If I need that extra exposure then cranking that shutter angle seems like a legit means of doing that.
great explanation, would be helpful if you put text over the specific shutter speed of your three samples
The high shutter speeds make me a little sick. It's just too jarring.
+Tim Kyle Yeah same here, it just looks wrong
Agreed. I hate that so many action "directors" these days opt for the 90/45-degree shutters. (Oh, and don't even get me started on shaky/zoomy cam!)
I'm making a very specific video, that is cardistry-related, meaning high speed card flicking and "juggling" and I found that if I bump up the shutter speed it makes it look like there's more action than there actually is. I found that that's the case I'd probably stick with higher shutter, in almost all other cases I agree with you to stick to the rule, though.
for stabilizer is also important shoot with 1/100 + higher is better and in the end put RSMB Effect over and it looks like 180deg
Thank you, you're the best! Love the way you explain things. So clear.
I’m curious what you thought of Gemini Man filmed at 120fps, not just the action sequences.
I think this rule goes out the window today when content is watched and captured at 50 or 60 fps.
I think it is more a feeling than probably reality. Most people will not notice. I didn't see much difference between the faster and slower shutter speed! I always use 180°; but with wise lens and less availability of ND Vari or rather not good color rendering of them; I was wondering maybe I should just put one like a ND8 and leave it in all the time instead. If it is bring; I will just bump the shutter speed. I mostly do outdoor work and it is too difficult to change ND filters all the time. Then some cloud comes in. Ok, the auto ISO will cover that; but in outdoor the shade and bright may have easily a change of 10 to 12 stops of light. It is really problematic to change ND. That is why vari ND is good, but it doesn't work well with wide angle lenses needed for outdoor!
Anyway, I will do a test now myself with 100, 200 vs 50 for a 24 FPS and will show that to some of my colleagues and will see if they see a difference. Sure, gurus will probably see the difference. But most of our viewers are not gurus. They are normal people with a smartphone at best with a computer monitor or TV. So I would like to understand how they will see the difference.
I believe it goes like this for outdoor. Try to get it right whenever possible. But don't try to be too obsessed about it. There will be cases where you have to change things a bit. Try to stay between ISO 100 and 1600, F5.6 and F11 (for wide angle environmental stuff). If you can achieve the 180° (which will probably the case in 90% scenarios). If not; well, don't bother too much. You may loose the shot itself if you try to change ND and then the cloud will come over and you wouldn't want an environmental nature walk in F2.8 or ISO 3200!
Off course in a studio it is different where light is always under your control!
Excellent video. Confirms my thoughts on motion picture shutter speeds/frame rates also.
I've seen a scene from the new avengers with metadata added, turns out they shoot static scenes with a 45 degree shutter. Perhaps to add CG more easily? But I don't know, it still looks decent, and it made me start searching for better explanations of how various shutter speeds affect the footage.
I pushed the shutter speed higher around 100th of a second when I did not have a HD filter and a few times I dropped it to let more light into the camera.
The Panasonic GH2 you can drop the shutter as low as you want. But the GH4 and G7 you can only go as low as 25th of a second.
What a great explanation! Thanks for the info.
This is an awesome video. Super informative and gave me exactly the information I wanted. Thank you good sir
thanks!
How have I been learning videography from RUclips for 2 years now, and I just tonight learned about shutter angle?! Thanks for making this video! If I'm shooting at 24fps, is there really a big difference between SS 1/50 and SA 180d? The math seems to make more sense in that the 180d is literally perfect, but how noticeable is it? Is 180d easier for the camera to process digitally? Benefits?
The difference between 1/48th and 1/50th is pretty much negligible so 1/50th should be close enough, however, the benefit of using shutter angle is that the calculation remains intact across any frame rate. So if you set your camera to 180-degree shutter angle, you can switch frame rates and always have the proper shutter speed.
Nice video explanation but I've learned more from reading comments.. mostly how to bend the 180 degree shutter rule. ;)
is there anything other then frame blending to recover high shutter speeds in adobe premiere? to recreate the film look
Solid video man. Great explanation of the rule.
I have been doing video for profession for rather long time and I didn't notice the difference the two first shutter speeds. :-) I like the fast shutter look.
Awesome explanation and video. Subscribed!
Best explanation, EVER! Thank you.
no problem
Thank dude!
Hi Good explanation but it does not take in consideration of shooting on a green screen or white backdrop. Where the motion blur looks ugly and not natural.
Getting away from the 180 rule will cause an epic flail?
Honestly no difference unless you’re pixel peeping. No client would be able to tell the difference
Thank you STronz.
Well explained and your simple tests are good at showing why 180 degrees should be rule.
Now for low light situations, where subjects are moving slowly (people walking or just discussing in a dark room), maybe going to 360° helps gain an extra stop without hurting the image ?
Well done. Very informative. Thanks.
Are you sure you are not talking about the cinematographic shutter formula? I always thought the 180 degree rule was about the camera angles.
Yeah it's a bit confusing because there are two 180 degree rules: one for shutter angle and one for camera placement. Both are very valuable rules to follow.
Thank you for explaining. I knew about doubling the focal length to get the right shutter speed for photography, I knew about doubling the framerate to get the right shutterspeed, and I knew the 180 degree rule.
Now I know I knew two 180 degree rules.
Edo Dijkgraaf No problem!
agree! i'm using shutter angle more often than shutter speed though!
I would love to shoot in 180° all the time. But what happens in the real world. When filming a wedding going from dark indoor scenes to out door bright light. Do you suggest using nd filters? So changing them evertime you have a bright scene? In real world situations I need to boost my shutter to stop over exposing.
As a photographer i have a question on this topic:
In Photography we always want to use a faster shutter speed when using a longer lens (to achieve a sharp photo). A rule of thumb tends to be 1/focallength. So when i shoot a photo with a 500mm lens, i want to be at least at 1/500s.
Is this completely ignored/unnecessary with video? Say I shoot at 24fps. Do I use 1/50s without regard for my focal length? So no matter if I shoor wide angle or very telephoto?
Thanks in advance!
From my perspective you can generally leave your shutter at 180 degrees for video all the time. There are some situations where you may want to change the shutter angle up or down for certain purposes (high speed action or low light) but in general it's best to stay at 180 degrees. With photography, you typically want to "freeze" the action and with longer lenses, you're more likely to introduce noticeable camera movement and motion blur. With video, the motion blur is important whenever there is movement so if you have a longer lens and you're perceptibly adding more movement to the footage, that movement should still be represented with motion blur. Now if for some reason you want to limit motion blur, then yes reduce your shutter angle to 90 or 45 but that will give you "choppier" motion since you've reduced the blur from each from to the next. Hope that makes sense.
very informative thanks a lot dude
Thanks!
This was super clear and helpful
You look like a nice hugger, subscribed.
Thanks. Excellent explanation. Now I understand!
Very nice video and explanation. Thanks!
+Marshall Alsup No problem, glad you found it useful!
If you are doing any VFX in post, specifically 3D tracking, I'm thinking the faster shutter speed would give sharper details to track. Then you can add motion blur back in over the final composited shot, so both and CG and backplate have the same amount of blur. You have any experience with something like this? Wondering if there is an optimal shutter speed for vfx shots.
You’re 100% correct, that’s a specific situation where natural motion blur is not beneficial.
Thanks for sharing the knowledge.....appreciated!!!
As I shoot wildlife I need crisp images and therefore shoot 6oP at 1/120th or faster. I do use slow motion but not always.
My camera let's me put the shutter speed below the frame rate should I do that sometimes or no
Hello thanks for this but what if you're doing a basic Interview talking head shot with no hands waving is it still necessary or will you notice the difference then?
I don't understand why it is called 180 degree shutter rule, I mean 2x30 60 and 2x60=120, where does the 180 number comes from?
Very well presented, thumbs up.
Can you show a 48fps video with a 1/48th of a second shutter speed?
great video. clear. informative. well said. well presented. : ) quality YT work here. thanks dude
Would you suggest 24 fps 1/48 shutter or 30 fps 1/60? And why?
I think using ND filters is once best option. Adjusting your ISO and/or Fstop might not be convenient everytime cos I may want to shoot on a particularr fstop or ISO
The editor will add motion blur in post. If im using special effects, Id much rather have a crisp shot to track the motion and then ill add motion blur
Hey, thank you for the grat video! Can you tell me where fron the settings can I do that, Im with the same camera! Thanks!
I'm using a GH5S I shot it at 400 ISO in 10bit 180 degrees with F.5.6 with really bright LED lights, but I still got noise on my shots, especially in shadows or certain colors. someone suggested ditching the 180-degree shutter and adjusted as I need to remove digital noise artifacts. they say the GH5S is great for low light but my experience has been the opposite. can you suggest a setting that works with less amount of noise?
I think the 180 degree rule is a bit of an old tradition that were used to seeing based off of history/tech of film making over the decades. But today, were a gaming generation, we've bumped up from low frames right on up to 120fps. The new kids on the block want the information and don't like motion blur. I think if you did this video blind without telling anyone what shutter speeds they are looking at they wont notice the difference. Even professionals editors that are used to seeing it might even not think about it if they were just watching TV or whatever without conscious though into what fps its at. And I'd imagine younger people, and the trend going forwards with the tech, were going to see a bump in standards from 24p to 30p (today) to 60p (few years) to 120p in some decade to come and when that happens, 24p will look 'black and white'. We wont like it and we will be breaking new rules to film at 24p for the nostalgic look.
With that said, we have to work with the tech of today, and if we break this rule and end up with bad choppy footage, well we just wasted time. I think the question we need to think about is what final output are we exporting this too? Lets look at this from a 60p point of view. Assuming the viewer is watching this on a 60p TV, they wont want the motion blur so long as its not choppy. They want that crisper look that the higher fps is giving them. Low fps/180 degree rule is limited by the tech. We need to think of it like this as filmmakers too so when the tech changes, we will know how to adjust our filming settings to go with it or we will get tossed out like the film guys who did not want to learn digital and now practice their hobbies to themselves in their little antique black rooms. lolz
Well done. Unless I missed it, does the 180 degree rule apply to camcorders as well?
Just to let you know, the video I'm viewing now the shutter still quite doesn't look right - slight jitters when subject move (hand moves and face turns), not correct setting. It doesn't look natural at all whatsoever to the eyes. 180 doesn't cut it. Something is not right about it. Maybe 200-240 or somewhere in between there.
Phenomenal explanation. Well done, sir.
+Rhys Sherring thank you!
+Rhys Sherring thank you!
+Rhys Sherring thank you!
+Rhys Sherring thank you!
Great explanation
Really well explained.
Thanks, probably should make another shorter, more concise version at some point