Mechonoid Script Mistakes and Prop Mysteries Solved - Mission Recon & Merch Bonus Info
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- Опубликовано: 20 окт 2024
- Original Mechonoid Video
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In this episode we take a deep dive into the way the Doctor Who production office printed their scripts, in order to understand how they got the name wrong of their prime new merchandise opportunity!
Plus we explore additional details not previously addressed regarding how the Mechonoids were built.
And we explore what the mystery "Ex 1984" prop that was mentioned in paperwork in which they also decided to junk the original Mechonoid props.
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Unseen Dalek footage from the 1980s'? I'm already pumped.
History of the Special Weapons Dalek would be cool.
Honestly I just see it as like a racist term the Daleks would use to describe Mechanoids, Meckons, like how Nazi Soldiers were called Fritz back in WW2
Interesting idea...
@@Dalek6388 I've always thought about it the same way myself, and nothing to do with the name being similar to the name of the dynasty that rule the Treens from the North of the planet Venus, no sir....
Funny thing though that I've noticed about the 1950s 'Dan Dare' stories is the many similarities that they happen to have with early 'Doctor Who' stories, many of them being Terry Nation ones.
The very first story (whatever that's called...) has many, many similarities with the first Dalek story (whatever that's called...) and 'Regin of the Robots' (my personal favourite Dan Dare story) shares many key plot points with 'The Dalek Invasion of Earth' are just two examples to be found in the Dare canon.
The strips are currently being reprinted by Titan books so they are easily available to anyone who is curious about them, and yes I VERY highly recommend reading them, particularly the 1950-1959 stories...
The 1960s stories aren't as good, but they are still fun to read anyway, not so sure on the 1970s 2000AD strips as I've only read the first volume of the reprints of that take on Dare. But I do know that it does have it's fans, and I myself quite enjoyed it in spite of the massive changes to the title character's personalty, if you've ever read any 2000AD stories in your time, you can probably guess what kind of man Dan Dare was turned into, although to be fair they did explain it away, sort of...
I don't know all that much about the 'new' Eagle strips as I've only seen a very limited number of those strips and also out of sequence, thus I cannot comment on them, however I do know that they did do an actual 'origin' story for Dan which explained away the fact that in the 'old' stories he looked, acted and spoke like an actor from a 1940s war film in spite of the fact that he was a man of the 'future' (ie 1990s-2000s...) although I believe this didn't explain why all of his coworkers was cut from the exact same cloth of character as he...
The short lived, but much missed, Garth Ennis run is somewhat darker and a lot more 'modern' but I'd still recommend it very much all the same because it still retains the heroic nature of the title character and like many of the better Virgin books, it does not sneer at Dan's basic moral decency thus I feel that it is in fact the best version of Dare to come out since the 1950s.
There was another run done (simply entitled 'Dare') in a magazine call 'Revolver' (I believe) that was far, far darker and was a lot more cynical in it's nature.
While that kind of media isn't always to my personal taste I personally found it interesting for the fact that it was a satire and that Dan Dare himself was presented as a kind of symbol for an 'England that once was' in pretty much the same way Captain America is presented in Marvel in their comics, with regards to America and the 'Greatest Generation'. Again not quite typical of what one should expect from a Dan Dare story but it is still an interesting read, and I'm sorry to say is still a fable for our times.
Titan (who also do the reprints of the 'Classic' strips) did a run of their very own, which was a lot more conventional with what one would expect from a Dare comic.
There was even a short lived cartoon, of which is quite hard to come by, when I first saw it I hated it because instead of adapting the 1950s strips (which are just crying out to be made in movies), they just went and made up their own stories, however that said I've always felt that most of the voices were spot on to the ones that I 'hear' in my head while I read the comics. I would like to watch it again someday in order to reevaluate it however...
Forgive me for the big tangent I just made but I only felt that it was important for me to do so because I wanted my fellow fans of our program to know all about 'Dan Dare'.
Spaceship Aaaawwwaaayyy!!!!!
P.S.
Happy Times and Places..
Fun little FACTOID: the term 'Nazi' itself originated as a derogatory term for the National Socialist Party by their communist opponents.
@@christopherlockery9629 The Dan Dare of 2000 AD was terrible. They tried to pump it up to make it "cool" for contemporary audiences . That is really all I can say about it. I did enjoy the Dan Dare that came out recently (I can't find them at the moment, so I don't know when they were printed). Fortunately, they did not try to milk it too much.
Mechons sounds like a slang term for Mechonoid to me.
I remember being aware of the use of "Mechon" on the Mini Album but, as a kid, put it down to a slang shortening/interchangeable version of the "proper" name.
Interesting explanation!
I made the same excuse for the broadcast version, though I thought it odd that the Dalek and not the humans would use the slang version.
These brilliant episodes deserve official recognition in some way. For me they are clearly the best Who related research in many, and I mean many a year! Well done Jon and Gavin
Thank you again Tim!
I just realised, Daleks are Mechonoids, they're like mechanical beings, but are more organic
Ever listened to Juggernauts?
@12:50 - "Which I think was a fair representation of the whole mess."
Best line in the whole video. Bravo.
😂
The thoroughness and passion of classic Doctor Who fans are both amazing and fascinating. Good work to all of you!
Thank you Andre!
Fascinating! Did you know that the name of the Mekon also derives from 'mechanical'? There is consequently a school of thought among Dan Dare fans that it should be pronounced "Mekkon", not "Meekon". An equal and opposite problem to the question of spelling Mechonoid!
I didn’t know that no. Very interesting!
The 1992 Eagle revival and redesign actually says its pronounced "Mekkon" in the first issue. I disagree but whomever wrote the first revival Dan Dare story goes out of their way to specify the pronunciation.
@@medes5597 I also say Meekon but there is some evidence that original creator Frank Hampson intended it to be pronounced the other way. In 'Reign of the Robots' (13th December 1957) Digby tauntingly calls him 'Mekki'. In a 1974 interview, Hampson says 'This was arrived at by thinking about something mechanical... mech-an... Mekon - like that.' (Printed in the 2004 The Red Moon Mystery graphic novel.)
In the 2001 TV series it is always pronounced Meekon... except in the theme song. In the final line Elton John sings 'Dan Dare doesn't know it, but I like the Mekkon.' The song was recorded in 1976, so perhaps that explains the discrepancy!
I love that reference to the "factoid" error. It isn't exclusively a modern thing to refer to things incorrectly, of course, but social media doesn’t help as people often copy things they see and think they understand the context of, but don't necessarily (me included!). ;)
Great video. Love Dan Dare and the Mekon, hence my avatar.
My favourite thing is the theme music! Another dope video 💯
The mechanoid/mechonoid issue reminds me of the discussion of meme theory in The Blind Watchmaker book. "Mechanoid" may have been more suited to memory, being close to the word mechanical.
These doc's are turning out to be my favourite series on RUclips...... Great stuff!
Brilliant to hear that Marcus!
Absolutely brilliant! I find material like this to be completely fascinating. I noticed that on the 'clutter' list, 'Mechonoid' was spelled 'Mechanoid'. This beggars the question: so what is the name of their planet? 'Mechanus', or 'Mechonus'? I rather like a name from a story in the first Doctor Who annual: 'Mechanistria'.
Thank you! The name of the Planet must be interchangeable much like the inhabitants!
Just adore these videos. Adds other depths somehow to the actual stories.
Glad you like them. Thank you!
Brilliant work, as ever! Just thought I’d mention a couple of typos I spotted in the description: ‘address’ (addressed) in the penultimate paragraph, and ‘mytery’ (mystery) in the last paragraph.
Sorted thank you! 🙂
Fantastic work yet again never know Parker was a Dalek!
I really wanna hear a dalek say Yes m'lady now!
the joy of coming across a new video from you ...another triumph. I used to listen to that Century 21 record over and over again...think I wore it out.
Thank you!
Whatever else Terry Nation was, being precious over his scripts wasn’t one of them. Love how he handed it over and then basically said “it’s all yours, do what you want” 😎
That was possibly because he was so in-demand as a scriptwriter - he may just not have had time to worry further about his scripts once he'd created a version acceptable enough for production. In the 1960s & 70s, he was writing for the likes of The Avengers, ITC adventure series, various comedians, and others. That's not to mention his preparatory work/thinking about the likes of his TV series creations Survivors and Blake's Seven. :-)
when I was 6 years old my mother worked at a supermarket in Newport. She often took me to work with her in the summer and school holidays and I along with several other children were looked after by the wife of the owner in the back of the store. Her husband was Terry Nation's brother and he would often come home with copies of Doctor Who scripts. He gave me a copy of this exact episode stating " you can tell your schoolmates what is going to happen".
This I did but nobody believed me until they saw it on TV. I wish i had kept them along with all my Century 21 comics, that I was given for good behavior because I was a bit of a tike, but they got lost into the mist of time :{
You guys are the Indiana Joneses of Dalek research and Dan Dare vs the Daleks now that's an idea for a crossover👍
Thanks Gary!
Brilliant couple of videos guys! Very interesting stuff!
Thanks!
Absolutely fascinating. Hope you have more like this to come. (I'm with you on 'factoids' too.)
We do have more to come yes! With proper FACTS too! 😂
Would be fantastic to see you finish that "Mission to the Unknown" recon, official 2019 remake or not.
You will have to pester Gav about that!
Dalek Vadron I second that :)
Another great video glad my patron money is being used to help these amazing videos be made
Thank you! And thank you for supporting us. We really do appreciate it 🙏
Another fantastic episode. I never knew these mechonoids existed thank you.
Thank you Nicole. Glad you enjoyed!
Really fascinating stuff. Thanks once more for another great video.
“Mechonoid” is definitely the better-sounding name. Why the movie adaptation with Peter Cushing reverted to using “Mechon” I will never know.
Another fantastic video! Very well done. Just a couple of comments. First, I think Terry Nation's informal comment to Dennis Spooner at the end of the episode six script really referred just to the fact that Spooner would have to supply the ending, dependent on the situation with the companion departures - I think that at the time Nation wrote the scripts there was still some uncertainty over whether both Barbara and Ian would be going, or just one of them. Secondly, I seem to recall that the Fungoids are referred to as "Gubbage Cones" somewhere in the scripts. Possibly that was just in the camera directions - in which case it could just have been a Richard Martin nickname for them - but I've not had a chance to check.
Hi Stephen. In the script, the Gubbage Cones are referred to as the four large central pillars of the forest. The fungoids are listed separately underneath that with different ID references.
The spelling error on the end credits (“Mechanoid” instead of “Mechonoid”) was almost certainly NOT the fault of graphics “technicians” who would never have seen a script. A graphics request form would have been provided by the Dr Who production office, and this document formed the basis of the finished credits. Three graphics staff would have been involved in the production of the closing roller: a compositor, who set the type, a Masseeley press operator who printed it, and a third person who would proof-read the finished roller against the paperwork. The graphics print room staff worked on a two-week shift cycle basis, and the likelihood is that different staff would have produced captions for alternate weeks, and would not have seen previous sets of credits. The production would have been supplied with precisely the caption material they had commissioned.
See also Kitt Pedlar and Gerry Davies...
Please do video on evil of the daleks. I have been wanting an in depth episode from someone for years
Another great video,very informative & and as usual top stuff....many thanks.
Thank you Paul!
Really interesting video, as I've never watched this episode more than once as I had the existing episodes on video and never bothered getting a dvd of it.
Interesting factlets abound as usual. Great work. Thank you!
😉😀
I thought I was single handedly fighting the ‘Mechonoid’ corner on RUclips - hopefully this will help! In my FA series, the Daleks still refer to them occasionally as Mechons - I felt it was their own term for the beings, maybe derogatory but probably not. Just how they refer to them. Another fascinating video. Thank you so much for this!!
Glad you enjoyed!
Great stuff, keep them coming!
Thank you!
Another excellent video know I do still have a small issue An Adventure in Space and Time didn’t recreate the famous Verity with her cigarette being lit by a Mechonoid - just think they might have appeared in the Capaldi era considering most of the other props did
Thank you! Yes it would have been a nice thing to recreate!
Well that dramatisation has a lot of issues. That's definitely the least of them
Excellent. A nice part 2. Keep these coming
Fantastic video as always.I had a Cherilea Mechonoid back in the day.
Da
Em
!
Fantastic work, this is wonderful and love it!
Glad you enjoyed!
Brilliant!
Q: How did 'Mechon' get into the final script?
A: It was a balls-up.
😂
* Balls-up-oid
LOL
Adding "oid" to the end of words is the one bit of comedy that I can indulge in endlessly without tiring of it. "Disgustoid" and "computoid" are bothe words I use regularly, but just about anything can be an "oid"
Dash I love you
Excellent as always.
Thank you Stuart!
Mechon is surely an abbreviation of mechanoid , and people could in reality allow abbreviation when they talk so why not. The O to A is as a result of the great vowel shift.
Thank you very much I enjoyed that immensely
Glad you enjoyed!
I wondered if it was the similarity to the Mekons that caused the name change, but I assumed it was done later for the merchandising they did.
There's only one Mekon, he was the ruler of the Treens, which were a race of aliens from the planet Venus.
However the Mekon seen in Dan Dare was one of a long line of rulers who were bred to rule the Treens (much like the Royal family are supposed to have been) hence the different physical appearance from the other Treens.
Awesome - well done guys.
Thank you Nick!
loving these videos
Great to hear you like them! Thank you.
Although it was clearly down to an error in the script process, it's not really a problem for a species to be referred to in more than one way. We refer to ourselves as humans, human beings & homo-sapiens. Mechonoids, sometimes know as Mechons, seems reasonable. I guess it could cause confusion for people watching a TV show, but if it were real life, this would be fairly normal.
That’s certainly very possible yeah
Great stuff again. Fascinating.
3:00 Pet peeve or no, I'd advise researching the word factoid further. Norman Mailer (probably) coined the term in 1973 and he specifically intended it to mean "facts which had no existence prior to their appearance in media, specifically magazines and newspapers" and which are repeated so often that they become accepted as real. His usage was certainly correct at the time, as the "factoids" would be called "fake news" these days and based on unreliable sources and urban myth at best. So "fact-like" and portrayed as such but not actual facts. The term's accepted meaning has drifted over the intervening 46 years, and like it or not several reputable dictionaries include the "small or trivial piece of information" definition these days, as well as calling out the Mailer original. Regardless of technically "incorrect" usage the word means what people think it means now, and it's arguably a less ugly neologism than the commonly suggested alternative "factlet" is.
Ah .... the Dr Who disc. I had that as a child and played it over and over again....
I knew something was inspired by War of the Worlds in Dr. Who!
Was the Dalek dialogue still being pre-recorded at this point? So they couldn't discuss any changes on the studio floor, they had to go with what was on the tape?
I spent a long time checking into this and I couldn’t come to a certain conclusion so left it slightly ambiguous.
There were pre-recording dates booked but this was mainly for David Graham (and it’s Hawkins who makes the slip) and it was also likely just audio for the film sequences.
Plus, if audio was to be played in, it should be noted on the camera script and it isn’t. But it would make more sense if it was pre recorded and there was no-one also around to point out the name had changed.
@@Dalek6388 Thank you for a very comprehensive answer!
I have a factoid for you! The Daleks appeared as extras in no less than 63 episodes of Bergerac, usually in the background at a pub ordering something at the bar.
Bonus factoid! The drinks ordered were usually Cinzano Bianco. This is because the Daleks hadn't actually been cast, they'd just turned up because they're really big John Nettles fans. The casting director got them to order Cinzano as an joke - "Just like a bottle of Cinzano, I can't get rid of 'em..."
Wayne and Shuster. Shuster is pronounced 'Shooster'. Canadian comedy duo.
These are amazing videos! How do you find all the rare archival materials?
Thank you! Lots of the material is donated to us from very kind people!
Entertaining as always.
Fantastic as always 👍😎
Thank you!
I like the 3D reconstruction. I wish that Dr Who was updated to a more mature crowd like BSG 2004. I'd definitely write the new scripts if somebody gave me a chance.
I think I remember Woolworths selling dalek and mechon toys back then.
Also it turns out the Dalek/Thal homeworld is really meant to be spelled ‘Skora’.
I can see this mistake easy to explain. It’s simply due to British accents.
Why, Ambassador you are spoiling us....🐴
🍫
Brilliant!
I NEVER SEEN A TOY MECHONOID UNTIL I SAW THEM IN THIS SERIES
I'm in this episode, Dimensions in Tyne convention
I'm there inside The Old Chap with Andy's remote controlled yellow 2nd movie dalek and Tony Myers Mechonoid 🙂👍❤️
As ever - Ace!
Really interesting... thanks.
It would have been hilarious if someone somehow managed to forget to remove the sign from the centerpiece from Mission to the Unknown.
😂
I'm always up for 'exciting new facts' but less so 'factoids'. ;)
I had that record in the '60's!
Headcanon is Macon is like a derogatory term for them
Maybe Big Finish should do an audio as to why the spelling is different ?
They are always fixing continuity errors and issues,
Maybe Mechanoid and Mechonoid aren’t the same thing ...
Male and female versions perhaps?! 😂
Dalek 63•88 Maybe see if the Daleks have a concept of gender too?
Maybe Mechon is a slur for mechonoid
16:17 Every now and again cultural figures crop up that I never heard of but should have
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayne_and_Shuster
"In 1962 and again in 1965, the pair went to Britain and produced Wayne & Shuster specials for the BBC" They had a North American career from the 40s till the 80s.
Brilliant
Thank you!
14:25 a ghost!
>Subscribe for more FACTOIDS
beautiful
3:00 A small fact - a factlet?
FWIW the auto-generated closed captions for this video consistently use "mechanoid" and never "mechonoid."
Could they really reuse the stencil? I remember the ink was thick and messy. One side of the stencil would be covered with ink completely as it had been up against the ink pad.
Gav did some research into the process and it did seem possible
@@Dalek6388 but imagine the work involved cleaning and drying the stencil for every page of script. Also there would be even more chance than usual of losing the centre of letters such as o, e, b, d, p, q as they were almost entirely cut around on the stencil. A secretary could probably retype a page on a new stencil in two minutes. Is it possible the secretary retyped the script complete with the mistakes? Or I wonder if they put two stencils together in the typewriter initially and then updated the unused one later? I never tried that and I don't know if there would be enough impact from the typewriter hammers to make the second stencil. However we did used to do several carbon copies sometimes. So there might be three sheets of paper and two sheets or carbon in the typewriter.
Yes, the stencils could be reused with careful handling. It was getting them on and off the drum that could be tricky and, now I come to think of it, putting them back on when used previously. Having frequently used one of these many years ago(!) the stencils weren't too bad to store. If they were going to be reused it was best to store them vertically. As to the ink, yes it was thick and messy but it wasn't too bad on the ink drum. The machine was often referred to as a gestetner, the company who developed them. Trying to correct the a stencil was tricky and not always successful. I used the stencils for anything for frequentish used worksheets and a spirit duplicator (Roneo!) for mostly one-offs. Thank goodness for photocopiers.
@@timelordtardis we had an ancient one at home which we were allowed to use occasionally. I love my colour laser printer and thank my blessings every time I use it.
Sorry. Is nobody going to mention Verity’s legs?
Rosebud plunger NNSD
So there was no surviving full scale mechonoids by the 70s or 80s then?
It doesn’t look like any of the three Mechonoids made it past the early 70s no.
14:23 That's Darth Vader
I prefer Mechanoid.
Where on earth do you find all this, or a stencil blanking length of film 😂
Who cares?.......really?