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@@shalysagavin6354 I admit that as someone only casually interested in Olympic karate, the ruling puzzles me a bit. It would be nice to hear an opinion from someone more knowledgeable & interested.
@@rev.paull.vasquez4001 I was pretty excited to see Karate in the olympics, I love martial arts and watch taekwondo during the olympics and that’s the main thing I watch. I watched judo this year too, and had to read and learn because I’d never watched it before, and I learned a lot watching karate as well. I practice Tang Soo do, and have practiced Kung fu, and love learning about other styles. I’m puzzled that the guy lifted his foot to kick, and the other tried to duck and they happened to meet in the same spot, and the guy who got knocked out got gold. It wasn’t intentionally a hard kick to the head, so I don’t agree with or understanding the ruling, so I definitely would like the opinion of someone who knows karate far better than I do.
I Hate Boxing And I Hate Punching And I Hate MMA/UFC/Cage Fighting It Is Criminal Brutality And They Use Excessive Force And They Have No Self Control, They Have No Self Restraint And They Abuse There Evil Wicked Hateful Hatred Power.I Love The Old Traditional Martial Arts Styles, Disciplines, Mastery And I Love The Old Traditional Kung Fu Styles, Disciplines, And Mastery’s For Self Defense.
In reality, every martial art was at some point either a mixed martial art, such as Wado-Ryu blending karate and Jiu-Jitsu, or it was a reductionist martial art, such as Funakoshi removing a lot of Okinawan elements in Shotokan because of the crossover with Judo. Mixed, or mixing, of martial arts was how most styles/systems of karate have their evolution. The unique thing of MMA in particular is that its mixing of techniques was to create a competitive, rules-based combative system. Even the addition of kobudo to karate on Okinawa can be considered a form of mixed martial arts. Okinawans blended their indigenous "ti/te" (Udunti) with the Chinese Chuan Fa to create Karate. So in a sense, any martial art that didn't remove pieces, like Judo removed pieces of Jiu-Jitsu in order to compete, was created by blendingor mixing other arts. Much of this also requires distinguishing martial SPORTS from martial ARTS.
I heard that some of the first dudes to learn Karate in Okinawa were farmers who knew some form of wrestling. U are correct though its hard to think even back than that a Martial art form didn't have a complete system to go against grappling and strikes. People been ground fighting and stand up striking sense the dawn of time so making an only strike base martial arts seems silly even for back than. I'm sure certain techniques or ideas got lost through time with these old martial arts... but ever try doing a kata on the ground? U might be surprise some of the things u may find..
As the video was beginning I thought “Lyoto Machida”, so I am glad to hear that he was discussed . He’s an amazing martial artist. As a child I was introduced to Karate first, then wrestling in grade school. In college I got into BJJ and judo. I am a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu black belt now so my perspective is coming from my experience in those particular martial arts. Learning a few techniques from a few different martial art styles is one thing, but the Lyoto Machida’s of the world are a totally different level. He’s got black belt level Jiu Jitsu, high level wrestling and a very strong Karate background. He was seemingly impossible to hurt early in his MMA/UFC career. Many mixed martial artists in the current generation have been training since a very young age and the current levels of athleticism and overall athletic performance are at an all time high . The evolution of athletic performance will be consistent from generation to generation , so I think it’s important to give recognition to the athletes who really stand out as exceptional martial artists. Lyoto Machida , Anderson Silva, and George St Pierre are all examples of great champions and martial artists. It seems superficial, but I do believe that MMA is comprised of mostly fighters, and maybe not as many martial artists . All tremendous athletes, but I do believe there is a difference on a few levels. Anyway, great video. I appreciate the dialog. I was a big fan of the karate kid fan movies as a kid so that’s how I found this channel. Happy New Year and thanks for making these videos. My life is so much better thanks to martial arts so it is very encouraging to see a sensei from your generation making a channel like this. Keep going !
This is such a great discussion! It is interesting to think about this subject from a martial arts perspective but also from the perspective of the entertainment business. Ultimately, the later dictates a lot, including people's perceptions of different arts. Although it is ultimately a business, something that I think is important to appreciate is that the UFC provided a platform for arts without dedicated promotions to be showcased to the masses. It was definitely a marketing vehicle for BJJ in the early days, but in the long run, it is now a vehicle that drives interest in martial arts in general.
I would say that UFC fighters are amongst the most skilled and most well rounded martial artists in the world, for the simple reason that they're being paid to be good at fighting and have to be able to deal with a wide range of possible opponents. They don't have a day job that eats up 40+ hours a week; their day job is martial arts training, which they do with some of the best coaches and sparring partners in the world. Nobody who has to work for a living is ever going to reach that level of skill, because so much of their energy is being used on things other than getting good at fighting. Having said that, five years of any striking art that includes sparring and competition (the latter because you need to practice applying your techniques on people who have a vested interest in those techniques not working) will make you a much better stand up fighter than the average, and a decent grounding in Judo will make you a better grappler than the average.
Great talk! I agree with the core system principle. It is a language that gives you a framework to incorporate new languages such as it happens with verbal languages, programming or even pedagogy in general. You made me think about a certain RUclipsr that is famous for his anti-traditional martial arts rants but yet by his own admission he can’t kick nor perform other really basic skills in sparring since he did a little bit of everything. Now with MMA I think it has been a fascinating development in martial arts that has helped to expose the façade of some of the “theoretical fighting” we saw in martial arts. On other hand martial arts and Budo specifically is not really about fighting. We are talking about civility, ethics, the development of character, mastery of yourself and your emotions in order to improve society. The martial training is just the vehicle to achieve this goal. The martial capability is an organic result of this process as in which as master Funakoshi said that we seek “perfection of character”. This is a nuance that many miss back in my country as the average person gauges martial arts based on their capacity to inflict harm. There are martial arts that are practiced almost purely for internal development. For example no one practices Iaido with the intention of fighting sword duels and yet it is a martial that gives you a lot from a meditative perspective, from the side of focus, physical training and community. I don’t know how it is for other folks but in the US there is a pervasive tendency in later years towards the idealization of violence to the point that the last 5 years have been pivotal. People actively seek confrontation and violence. Because of it we see a raise in folks seeking instruction on how to defend themselves as well as other seeking anything they can that would give them the upper hand in harassing and overpowering others. A sad state of affairs.
I agree. The main value in martial arts lies in they being a wonderful way to build character, learn about yourself and others, meditate, gain confidence, develop yourself and train and achieve a healthy life. To me, the main part of martial arts is the way, martial arts are a way to perfection, not a tool to fight and inflict harm. But someone that sees superficially a martial art and judges it entirely based in a few experiences, and jumps constantly from one to another, is diametrally opposed to what most martial arts teach. Learn, seek perfection, keep training, be patient.
Just like in kumite, no stance is rigid but the fluid transition from one sub-stance to another allows strikes to hit, so too in MMA; the skills taught in any particular art are less important than the experience and ability to transition between different skillsets. That is what make MMA so amazing, the best guys can use there wrestling to set up their striking and their striking to set up their wrestling.
Wonderboy Thompson also has a Kenpo Karate Background he is a UFC fighter and has RUclips channel as well. Hopefully you two elaborate as well Karate Dojo waKu.
Usually it's guys who built themselves up like some genius commenting below, that MMA is superior. Not so It's good for chess match competition, Shotokan in it's core is for real self defense. Heck ...Machida brothers proved the effectiveness. I love watching UFC and keep up with it but it's not end all be all. When McGregor was prime time, he would adopt a karate stance, Last weekend , Cyril vs derrick Lewis... He won using in and out karate movement.
As a Shotokan Karateka tge advantage woikd be exposure to someone's style while the opponent does not have exposure to yours. I love shotokan but as I age I cannot move in and out for long than I used to so Im forced to learn Boxing for mid to close distances. The truth is that having a base is definitely an advantage, but ignoring other skill sets will definitely be a disadvantege. In the end adding to what your style lacks can only be good.
Thoughts on the guy who won Olympic gold by getting knocked out. watching that has dramatically changed my views on sport karate. For the sake of safety or not, you should not be honored as the best after getting put unconscious in a bout from your opponent especially at the highest caliber of competition.
According to your logic: knockdown karatekas, savateurs, boxers, kickboxers, mixed martial artists, muay thai fighters, and other martialists are doing it wrong. No. A knockout is a definitive, decisive victory. No contest. WKF rules are garbage. Full stop. A knockdown karate organization (Kyokushin, Kyokushinkaikan, Nippon Kempo, Seidokeikan, Shinkyokushin, Shidokan, Enshin, Ashihara, etc) needs to run kumite for the Olympics. Leave the WKF at what theyre good at... kata.
U should react to Thai martial arts like Muay boran and muay thai and recommend checking out Muay boran 1st bc Muay boran is like mixture between Muay Thai and taekwondo together and u should train with a this martial artist
I don t agree too much with Darryl s opinion, because if you see, the most of traditional arts limitation actually come out with their modern sportivization and specialization. If you look the oldest version of kempo, karate, kung fu, they were not only punches and kicks. There were throws, joint locking, fight on the ground. All of these things were deleted to allow the fair sport competition.
Nope. The so called sportivization like you've said does great things in upgrading and evolving MA to be able to train realistically, practically and more efficient. For example Boxing, Muay Thai and Wrestling. The highest form of Karate that actually works in a real fight is what you get in Karate Combat, Glory, K1 Kickboxing and Daido Juku/Kudo Karate.
@@Eternaprimavera73, Do you spar full contact? Do you run? Lift weights? Do conditioning? How's your diet? How many hours and times do you train in a week? Have you complete? If you wanna be good in fighting. Train like a sports man.
@@BoxingForTheStreets I did till a certain extent. now i am amateur. The 3 best fighters i met were traditional martial artist. And I was student also under some people who organized the MMA movement in my country. I also trained in judo, muay thai, and kickboxing. But non of them is comparable to what you can have with traditional martial arts, in terms of fighting.
Sensei please interview Stephen Thompson and Michelle Waterson. They are the last karate hold outs in MMA. The sun is setting on their careers so now is perhaps the best time to interview them.
Bruce Lee was not the father of mixed martial arts. Even in the modern era, Edward Barton-Wright was there long before him with Bartitsu. Going further back, many existing martial arts are in fact a mixture of influences. Karate is just one that falls under that category. The development of Nippon Kempo in Japan also precedes Bruce's Jeet Kune Do. I'm a student of JKD, and it's great, but let's not rewrite history.
Just wrote the same. Bartitsu had Savate, boxing, Jujitsu, wrestling and stick fighting. Barton-Wright even brought two of the first Judo instructors to England.
The karate nerd says karate was developed as a “mma” type discipline using kicks punches throws and submissions (something I think not enough karate guys talk about because although it not a lot there are grappling techniques in karate) And again please do a video on japans number one boxer naoya inoue please please please Actually instead of a karate guy even reacting to him doesn’t even appeal to me as much as a guy who’s Japanese who happens to do martial arts and watches naoya
I think that for MMA we will see less and less of people coming from one style and more and more people just going into MMA straight away, learning from people with MMA experience and learning techniques that combine well straight from the start. That feels like the natural evolution of that sport, to focus entirely on what works in that context and don't spend a lot of time learning things to use in a different context first. That being said, MMA is hardly the end all, be all of martial arts so there will always be a lot of room for individual styles.
Also while some BJJ gyms have one day a week when they train MMA striking or are affiliated with an MMA gym, no karate gym in my entire country trains grappling even one day a week or is affiliated with an MMA gym
Form follows function. What someone chooses to learn beyond pure pastime/hobby activity depends on what sort of goal they have. That applies even to a martial art like Western bare knuckle boxing, which was from its inception a spectator sport with particular rules which may or may not have been useful in actual real world fights that didn’t use that rule set. Even traditional martial arts train all sorts of techniques that cannot be fully trained outside of actual life and death matches. A hissatsu ikken technique is too dangerous to land in kumite in the same circumstance one would have in real life. That means changing the rules you use in kumite or with protective gear to stop the techniques from landing full force. You’re still obliged to train the body, both muscle memory & conditioning (so as to damage the opponent more than the technician), so many traditional martial arts have both live kumite & conditioning separated. The most extreme forms of this are weapon arts, as even training weapons & gear can still substantially injure. Beyond this, most traditional martial arts are highly specialized and thus, multiple arts were always employed but studied separately. That was true of the samurai & Western men at arms, not to mention modern soldiers. For karate in particular, unarmed systems have 3 real world ranges they must account for to be prepared for real world fights: arms/feet length distance (striking), clinch (close contact where pure strikes have a hard time landing at full force due to the angles involved and neither is effectively restrained), and grappling (close contact where one or both have applied some sort of effective hold, on the ground or otherwise). No one traditional Japanese martial art for unarmed combat has encompassed all 3 strongly. Certainly traditional jujitsu encompassed some of all 3, but the point (as I understand it) was to get back to a weapon, as this was an auxiliary art for bushi/soldiers who had the battlefield as their focus. Modern martial arts have as their context, not the battlefield but ordinary civilian life where one is often completely unarmed (unlike the samurai who were usually allowed at least a wakizashi indoors, & daisho outdoors, and similar conventions in the West in regards to a side arm), or with concealed or makeshift weapons only. Thus the need to come up with solutions to the three distances. Karate tends to deal mostly with strikes & clinch, jujitsu or judo clinch & grappling. Some karate mixes in some grappling, but it’s apparent that it’s not a strong solution on its own. Okinawa remains more encompassing on average as some form of armed combat is mixed in, which is outside the study of much of karate & is a real world situation that also can be encountered. What I appreciate about MMA is the removal of elements that always displeased me about modern sport boxing, i.e. the excessively padded hands, and the rule set (especially no clinching & heavy weight upon the K.O.). It hardly even seemed like fighting to me, so far removed from anything real world.
I (kindly) disagree with the concept that you need to master a singular martial art before training MMA… the leading principal in mma is to win the fight, not showing how this stance or that choke from your “alma mater” benefit you. More than everything, it’s studying your body abilities, advantages and disadvantages at the realm of rules set (of the particular mma competition). As Bruce Lee said himself: “Absorb what is useful, discard what is useless and add what is specifically your own”.
You don't need to master a singular Martial Art. But using MMA to build on your Martial Art isn't a bad way to approach the sport if you aren't trying to become a world champion in the UFC. Everyone has their different approach and reason for learning MMA
I believe that if someone still has the mindset or try to always do a stance or technique exactly like how it's done in rigid/static practice session rather than just using the essence/principle behind that technique, then that person has not mastered and/or understood the martial art..
Most MMA gyms do way more sparring than karate dojos (my club only does sparring once a month) and also have separate days that they do kickboxing, boxing, wrestling, and BJJ.
I think the only thing that makes MMA superior to TMA, is because of most, if not all MMA does pressure testing, while a lot of TMA doesn't. But TMA's that do pressure testing like Judo and Muay Thai can fight MMA with little to no problem(depending on individual skils).
Yes and no. I am a Judoka who does Muay Thai now. The key is that you need to be practiced in standup, standing grappling, and ground grappling. Few TMA folks pressure test / spar in all three ranges.
I think to westerners (Americans at least) are more likely train in martial arts to learn how to fight rather than compete. I'm not saying it's a good or bad thing, just that we seem to have a built in expectation that we are going to have to hit and be hit at any moment and that might be why MMA is more popular here.
Jiu jitsu seems to be the most studied martial arts in MMA. If a wrestler comes into MMA, the next skill they pick up is Jiu jitsu. If a boxer comes in the next skill they learn is Jiu Jitsu. Etc. but it seems the martial artists with the most success are wrestlers who have some Jiu jitsu training.
I disagree with the "need for a core martial art" statement. If you start training in many things from the beginning, you'll naturally be more gifted in some than in others and develop your personal fighting style around that one particular skillset. But that exposure to different approaches helps you avoid becoming too specialised. For example, a kickboxer often has a higher kick landing rate in MMA than a taekwondo guy because he has the extra skill of setting up his kicks with his hands.
Not just Horiguchi, there have been many UFC stars from Japan. UNO, Okami, Sudo? What shotokan is lacking? You would be strangled hard. Machida, UFC champ and shotokan master, is also a BJJ black belt!
One thing is practice. One does less even blackbelt. Won't do good on any art. Or martial arts. One who does train will do good even if not a,blackbelt . It all depends. My opinion.
1. In all fairness, Kenwa Mabuni basically already told everyone what shotokan was missing decades ago. _"As up to now [1938] karate has only partly been introduced in Tōkyō, people who exercise karate in Tōkyō believe that it solely consists of atemi (punching) and kicking techniques. When talking about gyaku-waza and nage-waza they assume that these only exist in jūjutsu and jūdō. This way of thinking is exceedingly counterproductive with respect to karate itself and can only possibly be attributed to a lack of knowledge. In any case, with respect to the propagation of karate-dō it is exceedingly disappointing that only a small part of the entirety of karate had been introduced in Tōkyō..."_ 2. Jeet Kun Do was not the first "MMA", at least not in America Kajukenbo was. It's a mix of kenpo, tang soo do/shotokan, judo, jujitsu, kung fu and arnis. Officially it was founded in 1947, before Lee returned to the U.S. As a kempo stylist, I'm surprised Vidal didn't know that. 3. In an interview with Jesse Enkamp, Machida and his brother Chinzo, both said that they had to modify their shotokan style because the traditional way they were taught by their father wouldn't work in MMA.
As a Shotokan practitioner I agree with all your statements. Shotokan is excellent in distance management, go no sen, reverse punch and mae geri. Very excellent to the point that it may be the one thing that wins a fight. However there are a lot of holes specifically in close range and boxing distance. It gas no knee strikes nor does it have low level kicks. It sorely kacks undererstanding of body manipulation, kyusho, etc. Its Bunkai is attrocious so there is no combat translation of its kata. Its kata is for performance but does not teach you the deeper aspects of breathing, Qhi Gong, rootedness, internal connection to the hara, etc. It does not have hojo undo therefore it does not develop the hand positions in kata to be used as strong weapons or hooks to grab and manipulate. I looove Shotokan for what its good at, but to discover the fullness of Karate I had to cross train with Kung Fu and Okinawan Karate.
BJJ guys may not train striking, but karate guys don't train grappling.... They don't even do all strikes.. Forbidding elbows, knees, hooks, and uppercuts... And I'm saying this as someone who has done karate for 7 years and has a black belt (shodan) in Shotokan.
I kind of disagree with stick with one core both Sensei's. Body development should be the core. Is more important than any from of martial arts. Once you understand your how to use your own body everthing will makes sence.
Body development and raw combat knowledge as well. You need to be able to recognize attacks and know how to counter or defend them. You need to know where, when and what you are open to getting countered by when you throw a strike. When you want to expand your knowledge start with comparing different executions of technique you already know. Even in the same art some people do things more efficiently and safer than others, you should try to find out what they are doing different and replicate it. Core doesn’t need to be a particular martial art it can be built from using your brain to think how combat works until you know good ways to deal with everything thrown at you in a fight.
There are some styles of Kung fu that could be considered a mixed martial art such as hung gar. Hung gar seems to apply elements from both tiger and crane styles of Kung fu
@@Rubisco2510 oh so let’s just act like they’re aren’t some techniques that come from Kung fu or other traditional styles haven’t snuck their way into the cage. From Joaquin Buckley who used a TKD 2 touch kick (which can also be seen in some northern styles of Kung fu where a majority of Korean arts may have derived from) Tony Ferguson using trapping from Wing Chun and also practicing with a wooden dummy (both of which isn’t just exclusive to wing chun) Zabit Malgomedsharipov and Cung Le who have done San Shou (before you dare say that San Shou isn’t a real Kung fu style know that it is a curriculum/hybrid style derived from Kung fu styles like Choy li fut, Shuai Jiao, Baji Quan and others with a hint of western boxing. Muay Thai which is worshipped among MMA gym bros forget it’s parent art Muay Boran is an umbrella term like Kung Fu. There’s more than one Muay Boran like muay lopburi and muay chaiya. Those Thai styles all ended up merging together with western boxing around the 30’s to make what is now modern Muay Thai. San Shou did the same thing with Kung Fu but y’all are all like lol Muay Thai copycats) Michael Venom Page is another MMA guy who has a background in Kung fu as well. Lyoto Machida, Wonderboy, GSP? All mma guys who are also karate guys! Where did karate come from? White crane Kung fu. I’ve had it with fool’s generalizing Kung fu as trash because of some shitty schools and wimpy “masters”
@@javiersoriano671 Well let's address the moves here. Sure they are found in Kung-Fu. However, there are only so many attacks and many more people. The question is about who utilizes it properly. From what we see the use of jab was highly pioneered by boxing. Now it was pioneered by boxing due to a large amount of sparing it had not cus it invented it. The only reason I believe most kung-fu is useless is due to the lack of sparing in the dojo/gym/ whatever they call it. I took a look at San Shou and honestly, it looks very similar to kickboxing. In fact so does Qi La La, the Wing Chung practitioner that is actually kicking ass. While he does some techniques differently it still looks like mainly kickboxing. This is due to the fact that fighting is always fighting. If you spar you will always come to very very similar conclusions. Funny enough I think the only real thing that shapes styles is the ruleset (why the Thai were trash at punching was cus it scored low points). Now all the karate and kung fu forms seem rather strange and alien or hyperfocused on one aspect, for example, some kungfu dance-like forms and wing chungs hyperfocus on the pocket (it's useful however fighters only stay there for less than a second). If you spar you will always come back to something similar to kickboxing and MMA. Perhaps the eastern styles have something more to offer, however, it seems that those things are some obscure case-by-case moves rather than a solid foundation.
Bartitsu was even earlier, 1890s. It incorporated stick fighting, savate (French kick boxing), Jujitsu, traditional European wrestling (Schwingen, I think), boxing and others.
Also in point karate you don't learn to keep sparring after you get hit because once the guy hits you he does Hekete and waits for the judge to award the point
@@varanid9 There was a Karate Kumite match at the Olympics and one guy got disqualified for "excessive force" and the guy that got KOed won gold. It is better if you just google Olympic Karate Disqualification since majority of the martial arts world is laughing at Shotokan and the World Karate Federation.
I am not so sure that in 2021, it's necessary for an athlete to have a core martial art training prior to taking up MMA, to be successful in MMA. I believe that Rory MacDonald, for example, started his training in MMA, though later also took up BJJ and achieved a black belt in that activity. If you look at the current professional competitors, most of the top people had a successful background in collegiate wrestling. Why is that? Because to be successful in collegiate wrestling, you had be successful in high school wrestling, meaning that the sport of wrestling had already filtered out all but the most athletic people.
Mma in Japan was tied to pro wrestling. I don’t think the sport was ever that big there on its own. Pride started by using wrestlers to attract viewers there and always kept that connection to keep its fans. After the Yakuza scandal it all went away. In the US the sport as as big now as it ever was. Globally it’s bigger than ever.
Jeet kin do was the first mma? I don't know who the host here is, but he's obviously got no experience of traditional karate or taiji to name just 2 martial arts, because they both contain strikes grappling and attacks to opponents who are grounded. Not mma the sport but still this felt way off reality.
I think you can do OK learning 2 martial arts at the same time, I did Judo and boxing for 15 years, I also played rugby at the same time and condition training 7 days a week, my mate Norm trained me in some Thai boxing to, I incorporated the Thai clinch into my boxing and judo throws but I've never been a big fan of high kicking, its too much of a gamble on a slippy street in a street fight.
The problem with a core is many arts have techniques that are not valuable in fighting. They are useless or only work against its own practitioners. Many arts do not have the system to expose those holes and remove them. Because these arts do stay traditional. Spending 10 years to be an expert leaves little time to add the skills needed and removed the bad habits. Keep in mind what the guys in the ufc learn and use are all proven techniques that have been discovered through actually fighting over the last 28 years with the entire world watching and learning. Which creates a hyper evolution of the sport that changes before your eyes. There was a time head kicks didn’t work and we’re frowned upon. Eventually fighters added the skills needed to make head kicks a valuable weapon again. The same happen to the jab in boxing. Now some kicks and movements from karate and TKD are finding their way in the sport that used to be seen as useless because so many failed from those arts in the past. New skills from other styles breaths life into techniques from other styles and arts.
It’s strange seeing them use logic from the early 90’s that has been proven to not fly today. Saying a BJJ or wrestler isn’t prepared for strikes doesn’t make sense. We saw in the first UFC what happens when it’s style verses style. A pure BJJ person is way better off than a pure striker especially pure karate. If those ground fighters wanted to add striking they would and have plenty of strikers and boxers and kickboxers to learn from often in their very same dojo or gym. Fighters do it all and the ones who do t do it all are doing things way more effective on its own then karate. Looking down on ground fighters for their flaws when pure karate has the same flaws on the ground. Then criticize MmA fighters for not being experts in one style. This reeks of desperation to justify faith in a style that isn’t having the same results when tested. Also talking about the sport not being popular when the highest paid athlete last year was a UFC fighter. The old man is basic his opinion on his circle which is way out of the MMa demographic. This is a mindset making excuses to not evolve. As mma grows in Asia they will be left behind as the schools that evolve produce fighters the public supports. Both guys were respectful but their bias clearly shows. At least they didn’t stripe karate guys of their Fred’s like traditional martial artist used to do when their art lost. Claim so and so isn’t a real this or that. But the mentality is the same to preserve their art in the fact of evolving changes. There is people looking for that and don’t want to fight but I think they should embrace what has proven to work in their art more and educate their students on what styles and techniques and game plans can make their weapons even stronger.
Completely disagree with the notion that you should master or specialize in a martial art before starting another one. That sort of close mindedness is what gets strikers taken down and strangled and grapplers knocked the hell out.
Belts are not regulated . The truth is they are a fantasy . Look around and most belt systems change partially or vastly . The truth is , if you have a black belt , chances are you're getting stuck by tradition . This limits you greatly . A black belt puts food on the table . Real skill keeps you alive . You say it's good to get a base in one style . I say learn from anywhere & your growth will be unlimited .
The main function of shotokan was for physical education, exercise. Not combat. The deep stances are terrible for combat. Even when they spar they use absolutely none of their actual kata techniques. They just do sport karate.
I would qualify that Kajukenbo (an acronym for Karate, Judo/Jujitsu, Kenpo, and Boxing) actually preceded Bruce Lee’s thoughts, as some of Lee’s students have acknowledged. It has a fascinating history that you’d find interesting. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kajukenbo
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I would love to hear your opinion on the gold medal match from the olympics where between Tareg Hamedi and Sajad Ganjzadeh
@@shalysagavin6354 I admit that as someone only casually interested in Olympic karate, the ruling puzzles me a bit. It would be nice to hear an opinion from someone more knowledgeable & interested.
@@rev.paull.vasquez4001 I was pretty excited to see Karate in the olympics, I love martial arts and watch taekwondo during the olympics and that’s the main thing I watch. I watched judo this year too, and had to read and learn because I’d never watched it before, and I learned a lot watching karate as well. I practice Tang Soo do, and have practiced Kung fu, and love learning about other styles. I’m puzzled that the guy lifted his foot to kick, and the other tried to duck and they happened to meet in the same spot, and the guy who got knocked out got gold. It wasn’t intentionally a hard kick to the head, so I don’t agree with or understanding the ruling, so I definitely would like the opinion of someone who knows karate far better than I do.
I Hate Boxing And I Hate Punching And I Hate MMA/UFC/Cage Fighting It Is Criminal Brutality And They Use Excessive Force And They Have No Self Control, They Have No Self Restraint And They Abuse There Evil Wicked Hateful Hatred Power.I Love The Old Traditional Martial Arts Styles, Disciplines, Mastery And I Love The Old Traditional Kung Fu Styles, Disciplines, And Mastery’s For Self Defense.
In reality, every martial art was at some point either a mixed martial art, such as Wado-Ryu blending karate and Jiu-Jitsu, or it was a reductionist martial art, such as Funakoshi removing a lot of Okinawan elements in Shotokan because of the crossover with Judo. Mixed, or mixing, of martial arts was how most styles/systems of karate have their evolution. The unique thing of MMA in particular is that its mixing of techniques was to create a competitive, rules-based combative system. Even the addition of kobudo to karate on Okinawa can be considered a form of mixed martial arts. Okinawans blended their indigenous "ti/te" (Udunti) with the Chinese Chuan Fa to create Karate. So in a sense, any martial art that didn't remove pieces, like Judo removed pieces of Jiu-Jitsu in order to compete, was created by blendingor mixing other arts.
Much of this also requires distinguishing martial SPORTS from martial ARTS.
Agreed...
I agree. In Filipino martial art, it is even a combination of various Asian M.A. with European fencing and boxing.
I heard that some of the first dudes to learn Karate in Okinawa were farmers who knew some form of wrestling. U are correct though its hard to think even back than that a Martial art form didn't have a complete system to go against grappling and strikes. People been ground fighting and stand up striking sense the dawn of time so making an only strike base martial arts seems silly even for back than. I'm sure certain techniques or ideas got lost through time with these old martial arts... but ever try doing a kata on the ground? U might be surprise some of the things u may find..
@@JonathanJimenez_metalriff6 why fight with fists or grapple if you can have a long sharp metal stick
As the video was beginning I thought “Lyoto Machida”, so I am glad to hear that he was discussed . He’s an amazing martial artist. As a child I was introduced to Karate first, then wrestling in grade school. In college I got into BJJ and judo. I am a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu black belt now so my perspective is coming from my experience in those particular martial arts. Learning a few techniques from a few different martial art styles is one thing, but the Lyoto Machida’s of the world are a totally different level. He’s got black belt level Jiu Jitsu, high level wrestling and a very strong Karate background. He was seemingly impossible to hurt early in his MMA/UFC career. Many mixed martial artists in the current generation have been training since a very young age and the current levels of athleticism and overall athletic performance are at an all time high . The evolution of athletic performance will be consistent from generation to generation , so I think it’s important to give recognition to the athletes who really stand out as exceptional martial artists. Lyoto Machida , Anderson Silva, and George St Pierre are all examples of great champions and martial artists. It seems superficial, but I do believe that MMA is comprised of mostly fighters, and maybe not as many martial artists . All tremendous athletes, but I do believe there is a difference on a few levels.
Anyway, great video. I appreciate the dialog. I was a big fan of the karate kid fan movies as a kid so that’s how I found this channel. Happy New Year and thanks for making these videos. My life is so much better thanks to martial arts so it is very encouraging to see a sensei from your generation making a channel like this. Keep going !
This is such a great discussion! It is interesting to think about this subject from a martial arts perspective but also from the perspective of the entertainment business. Ultimately, the later dictates a lot, including people's perceptions of different arts. Although it is ultimately a business, something that I think is important to appreciate is that the UFC provided a platform for arts without dedicated promotions to be showcased to the masses. It was definitely a marketing vehicle for BJJ in the early days, but in the long run, it is now a vehicle that drives interest in martial arts in general.
I would say that UFC fighters are amongst the most skilled and most well rounded martial artists in the world, for the simple reason that they're being paid to be good at fighting and have to be able to deal with a wide range of possible opponents. They don't have a day job that eats up 40+ hours a week; their day job is martial arts training, which they do with some of the best coaches and sparring partners in the world. Nobody who has to work for a living is ever going to reach that level of skill, because so much of their energy is being used on things other than getting good at fighting.
Having said that, five years of any striking art that includes sparring and competition (the latter because you need to practice applying your techniques on people who have a vested interest in those techniques not working) will make you a much better stand up fighter than the average, and a decent grounding in Judo will make you a better grappler than the average.
congratulations 100k 🎉🥋
Awesome!!!
Darryl Vidal from The Karate Kid! Respect.
Just found out he's the guy from Karate Kid 1. Brilliant
Great talk! I agree with the core system principle. It is a language that gives you a framework to incorporate new languages such as it happens with verbal languages, programming or even pedagogy in general.
You made me think about a certain RUclipsr that is famous for his anti-traditional martial arts rants but yet by his own admission he can’t kick nor perform other really basic skills in sparring since he did a little bit of everything.
Now with MMA I think it has been a fascinating development in martial arts that has helped to expose the façade of some of the “theoretical fighting” we saw in martial arts. On other hand martial arts and Budo specifically is not really about fighting. We are talking about civility, ethics, the development of character, mastery of yourself and your emotions in order to improve society. The martial training is just the vehicle to achieve this goal. The martial capability is an organic result of this process as in which as master Funakoshi said that we seek “perfection of character”. This is a nuance that many miss back in my country as the average person gauges martial arts based on their capacity to inflict harm. There are martial arts that are practiced almost purely for internal development. For example no one practices Iaido with the intention of fighting sword duels and yet it is a martial that gives you a lot from a meditative perspective, from the side of focus, physical training and community.
I don’t know how it is for other folks but in the US there is a pervasive tendency in later years towards the idealization of violence to the point that the last 5 years have been pivotal. People actively seek confrontation and violence. Because of it we see a raise in folks seeking instruction on how to defend themselves as well as other seeking anything they can that would give them the upper hand in harassing and overpowering others. A sad state of affairs.
I agree. The main value in martial arts lies in they being a wonderful way to build character, learn about yourself and others, meditate, gain confidence, develop yourself and train and achieve a healthy life. To me, the main part of martial arts is the way, martial arts are a way to perfection, not a tool to fight and inflict harm.
But someone that sees superficially a martial art and judges it entirely based in a few experiences, and jumps constantly from one to another, is diametrally opposed to what most martial arts teach. Learn, seek perfection, keep training, be patient.
@@manorueda1432 well said
Just like in kumite, no stance is rigid but the fluid transition from one sub-stance to another allows strikes to hit, so too in MMA; the skills taught in any particular art are less important than the experience and ability to transition between different skillsets. That is what make MMA so amazing, the best guys can use there wrestling to set up their striking and their striking to set up their wrestling.
Wonderboy Thompson also has a Kenpo Karate Background he is a UFC fighter and has RUclips channel as well. Hopefully you two elaborate as well Karate Dojo waKu.
congrats with the 100k subs. Well deserved. Osu!
Usually it's guys who built themselves up like some genius commenting below, that MMA is superior. Not so
It's good for chess match competition,
Shotokan in it's core is for real self defense. Heck ...Machida brothers proved the effectiveness.
I love watching UFC and keep up with it but it's not end all be all.
When McGregor was prime time, he would adopt a karate stance,
Last weekend , Cyril vs derrick Lewis...
He won using in and out karate movement.
@@southtxguitarist8926 correct
But his movement was in n out like karate
As a Shotokan Karateka tge advantage woikd be exposure to someone's style while the opponent does not have exposure to yours.
I love shotokan but as I age I cannot move in and out for long than I used to so Im forced to learn Boxing for mid to close distances.
The truth is that having a base is definitely an advantage, but ignoring other skill sets will definitely be a disadvantege.
In the end adding to what your style lacks can only be good.
Don't forget to thank Bruce Lee for the first book on any martial art ever written. Also for inventing books. Bruce Lee was amazing!
I heard that he also invented the wheel!
Thoughts on the guy who won Olympic gold by getting knocked out. watching that has dramatically changed my views on sport karate. For the sake of safety or not, you should not be honored as the best after getting put unconscious in a bout from your opponent especially at the highest caliber of competition.
There was a wrestling champion in ancient greece who won after dying, does that change ylur opinion of wrestling?
According to your logic: knockdown karatekas, savateurs, boxers, kickboxers, mixed martial artists, muay thai fighters, and other martialists are doing it wrong.
No.
A knockout is a definitive, decisive victory. No contest.
WKF rules are garbage.
Full stop.
A knockdown karate organization (Kyokushin, Kyokushinkaikan, Nippon Kempo, Seidokeikan, Shinkyokushin, Shidokan, Enshin, Ashihara, etc) needs to run kumite for the Olympics.
Leave the WKF at what theyre good at... kata.
@@jamealjordon1376 so, if i step into a boxing ring, and i kick the oponent so hardbthey are out of combat, does that mean i won?
Sensei Seth attempted to upload and got taken down by the Olympics. That could happen too
@@gingercore69 you dont know that story
U should react to Thai martial arts like Muay boran and muay thai and recommend checking out Muay boran 1st bc Muay boran is like mixture between Muay Thai and taekwondo together and u should train with a this martial artist
Muay Thai is a great combative art.
@@BoxingForTheStreets agree bc I been learning Muay boran and muay thai and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu with my dad since I was 6 years old
Cool work sir 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
What do you think of Wonderboy Thompson(karate practitioner in the UFC)?
I agree learn one then add on .
You should react to Lyoto Machida's best fights/wins.
And I also heard sumo back in the day was a form of mma where you could punch and kick
I don t agree too much with Darryl s opinion, because if you see, the most of traditional arts limitation actually come out with their modern sportivization and specialization.
If you look the oldest version of kempo, karate, kung fu, they were not only punches and kicks. There were throws, joint locking, fight on the ground.
All of these things were deleted to allow the fair sport competition.
Nope. The so called sportivization like you've said does great things in upgrading and evolving MA to be able to train realistically, practically and more efficient. For example Boxing, Muay Thai and Wrestling. The highest form of Karate that actually works in a real fight is what you get in Karate Combat, Glory, K1 Kickboxing and Daido Juku/Kudo Karate.
@@BoxingForTheStreets my experience is exactly the opposite.
Anyway everybody is free to learn from his own experiences.
@@Eternaprimavera73,
Do you spar full contact? Do you run? Lift weights? Do conditioning? How's your diet? How many hours and times do you train in a week? Have you complete? If you wanna be good in fighting. Train like a sports man.
@@BoxingForTheStreets I did till a certain extent. now i am amateur.
The 3 best fighters i met were traditional martial artist.
And I was student also under some people who organized the MMA movement in my country.
I also trained in judo, muay thai, and kickboxing.
But non of them is comparable to what you can have with traditional martial arts, in terms of fighting.
@@Eternaprimavera73,
The moment you lean towards traditional MA clearly shows that you are either delusional or a liar.
It's also how you practice the effectiveness and ability of what you can learn. Not mention if you have a good teacher.
Hay,I am From Indonesian.I Like Your Videos Tutor
Sensei please interview Stephen Thompson and Michelle Waterson. They are the last karate hold outs in MMA. The sun is setting on their careers so now is perhaps the best time to interview them.
i agree with you, there is so much to learn in just one style. I have enough learning shotokan ;-p
I’d like to see you react to Combat Karate
congratulation on your 100k sub .
4:20 Oh I see that Karate Kid dojo logo in the background of his video lol.
Bruce Lee was not the father of mixed martial arts. Even in the modern era, Edward Barton-Wright was there long before him with Bartitsu. Going further back, many existing martial arts are in fact a mixture of influences. Karate is just one that falls under that category. The development of Nippon Kempo in Japan also precedes Bruce's Jeet Kune Do. I'm a student of JKD, and it's great, but let's not rewrite history.
Just wrote the same. Bartitsu had Savate, boxing, Jujitsu, wrestling and stick fighting. Barton-Wright even brought two of the first Judo instructors to England.
Im practicing Goju -Ryu I want to stick with until 1st Dan . Then I might look to learn other things .
The karate nerd says karate was developed as a “mma” type discipline using kicks punches throws and submissions (something I think not enough karate guys talk about because although it not a lot there are grappling techniques in karate)
And again please do a video on japans number one boxer naoya inoue please please please
Actually instead of a karate guy even reacting to him doesn’t even appeal to me as much as a guy who’s Japanese who happens to do martial arts and watches naoya
Most of the guys in the UFC have black belts in multiple arts. #doyourresearch
I think that for MMA we will see less and less of people coming from one style and more and more people just going into MMA straight away, learning from people with MMA experience and learning techniques that combine well straight from the start. That feels like the natural evolution of that sport, to focus entirely on what works in that context and don't spend a lot of time learning things to use in a different context first.
That being said, MMA is hardly the end all, be all of martial arts so there will always be a lot of room for individual styles.
review tenshin natsukawa.... he's core is karate... then kick boxing.... really good fighter for his age & weight class...
Also while some BJJ gyms have one day a week when they train MMA striking or are affiliated with an MMA gym, no karate gym in my entire country trains grappling even one day a week or is affiliated with an MMA gym
Form follows function. What someone chooses to learn beyond pure pastime/hobby activity depends on what sort of goal they have. That applies even to a martial art like Western bare knuckle boxing, which was from its inception a spectator sport with particular rules which may or may not have been useful in actual real world fights that didn’t use that rule set. Even traditional martial arts train all sorts of techniques that cannot be fully trained outside of actual life and death matches. A hissatsu ikken technique is too dangerous to land in kumite in the same circumstance one would have in real life. That means changing the rules you use in kumite or with protective gear to stop the techniques from landing full force. You’re still obliged to train the body, both muscle memory & conditioning (so as to damage the opponent more than the technician), so many traditional martial arts have both live kumite & conditioning separated. The most extreme forms of this are weapon arts, as even training weapons & gear can still substantially injure. Beyond this, most traditional martial arts are highly specialized and thus, multiple arts were always employed but studied separately. That was true of the samurai & Western men at arms, not to mention modern soldiers. For karate in particular, unarmed systems have 3 real world ranges they must account for to be prepared for real world fights: arms/feet length distance (striking), clinch (close contact where pure strikes have a hard time landing at full force due to the angles involved and neither is effectively restrained), and grappling (close contact where one or both have applied some sort of effective hold, on the ground or otherwise). No one traditional Japanese martial art for unarmed combat has encompassed all 3 strongly. Certainly traditional jujitsu encompassed some of all 3, but the point (as I understand it) was to get back to a weapon, as this was an auxiliary art for bushi/soldiers who had the battlefield as their focus. Modern martial arts have as their context, not the battlefield but ordinary civilian life where one is often completely unarmed (unlike the samurai who were usually allowed at least a wakizashi indoors, & daisho outdoors, and similar conventions in the West in regards to a side arm), or with concealed or makeshift weapons only. Thus the need to come up with solutions to the three distances. Karate tends to deal mostly with strikes & clinch, jujitsu or judo clinch & grappling. Some karate mixes in some grappling, but it’s apparent that it’s not a strong solution on its own. Okinawa remains more encompassing on average as some form of armed combat is mixed in, which is outside the study of much of karate & is a real world situation that also can be encountered. What I appreciate about MMA is the removal of elements that always displeased me about modern sport boxing, i.e. the excessively padded hands, and the rule set (especially no clinching & heavy weight upon the K.O.). It hardly even seemed like fighting to me, so far removed from anything real world.
I (kindly) disagree with the concept that you need to master a singular martial art before training MMA… the leading principal in mma is to win the fight, not showing how this stance or that choke from your “alma mater” benefit you. More than everything, it’s studying your body abilities, advantages and disadvantages at the realm of rules set (of the particular mma competition). As Bruce Lee said himself: “Absorb what is useful, discard what is useless and add what is specifically your own”.
You don't need to master a singular Martial Art. But using MMA to build on your Martial Art isn't a bad way to approach the sport if you aren't trying to become a world champion in the UFC. Everyone has their different approach and reason for learning MMA
I believe that if someone still has the mindset or try to always do a stance or technique exactly like how it's done in rigid/static practice session rather than just using the essence/principle behind that technique, then that person has not mastered and/or understood the martial art..
Yes. I'm a Boxer and a Wrestler. I love MMA.
@@killaben85 I totally agree with you brother.
@@dapidminiAiki Many of the teachers at the traditional martial arts community think exactly that... Jesse Enkamp for example is preaching against it.
This guy is talking with Vidal from Karate Kid.
Most MMA gyms do way more sparring than karate dojos (my club only does sparring once a month) and also have separate days that they do kickboxing, boxing, wrestling, and BJJ.
Wow.
I think the only thing that makes MMA superior to TMA, is because of most, if not all MMA does pressure testing, while a lot of TMA doesn't. But TMA's that do pressure testing like Judo and Muay Thai can fight MMA with little to no problem(depending on individual skils).
Yes and no. I am a Judoka who does Muay Thai now. The key is that you need to be practiced in standup, standing grappling, and ground grappling. Few TMA folks pressure test / spar in all three ranges.
I think to westerners (Americans at least) are more likely train in martial arts to learn how to fight rather than compete. I'm not saying it's a good or bad thing, just that we seem to have a built in expectation that we are going to have to hit and be hit at any moment and that might be why MMA is more popular here.
Jiu jitsu seems to be the most studied martial arts in MMA. If a wrestler comes into MMA, the next skill they pick up is Jiu jitsu. If a boxer comes in the next skill they learn is Jiu Jitsu. Etc. but it seems the martial artists with the most success are wrestlers who have some Jiu jitsu training.
I disagree with the "need for a core martial art" statement. If you start training in many things from the beginning, you'll naturally be more gifted in some than in others and develop your personal fighting style around that one particular skillset. But that exposure to different approaches helps you avoid becoming too specialised. For example, a kickboxer often has a higher kick landing rate in MMA than a taekwondo guy because he has the extra skill of setting up his kicks with his hands.
What about Karate Combat?
Not just Horiguchi, there have been many UFC stars from Japan. UNO, Okami, Sudo? What shotokan is lacking? You would be strangled hard. Machida, UFC champ and shotokan master, is also a BJJ black belt!
Cover karate combat
I don't think the Olympic knock-out should have been a disqualification.... maybe a penalty point.
One thing is practice. One does less even blackbelt. Won't do good on any art. Or martial arts. One who does train will do good even if not a,blackbelt . It all depends. My opinion.
You can even say that Karate itself is a mixed martial art, but that's debatable.
1. In all fairness, Kenwa Mabuni basically already told everyone what shotokan was missing decades ago. _"As up to now [1938] karate has only partly been introduced in Tōkyō, people who exercise karate in Tōkyō believe that it solely consists of atemi (punching) and kicking techniques. When talking about gyaku-waza and nage-waza they assume that these only exist in jūjutsu and jūdō. This way of thinking is exceedingly counterproductive with respect to karate itself and can only possibly be attributed to a lack of knowledge. In any case, with respect to the propagation of karate-dō it is exceedingly disappointing that only a small part of the entirety of karate had been introduced in Tōkyō..."_
2. Jeet Kun Do was not the first "MMA", at least not in America Kajukenbo was. It's a mix of kenpo, tang soo do/shotokan, judo, jujitsu, kung fu and arnis. Officially it was founded in 1947, before Lee returned to the U.S. As a kempo stylist, I'm surprised Vidal didn't know that.
3. In an interview with Jesse Enkamp, Machida and his brother Chinzo, both said that they had to modify their shotokan style because the traditional way they were taught by their father wouldn't work in MMA.
As a Shotokan practitioner I agree with all your statements.
Shotokan is excellent in distance management, go no sen, reverse punch and mae geri.
Very excellent to the point that it may be the one thing that wins a fight.
However there are a lot of holes specifically in close range and boxing distance.
It gas no knee strikes nor does it have low level kicks.
It sorely kacks undererstanding of body manipulation, kyusho, etc.
Its Bunkai is attrocious so there is no combat translation of its kata.
Its kata is for performance but does not teach you the deeper aspects of breathing, Qhi Gong, rootedness, internal connection to the hara, etc.
It does not have hojo undo therefore it does not develop the hand positions in kata to be used as strong weapons or hooks to grab and manipulate.
I looove Shotokan for what its good at, but to discover the fullness of Karate I had to cross train with Kung Fu and Okinawan Karate.
BJJ guys may not train striking, but karate guys don't train grappling.... They don't even do all strikes.. Forbidding elbows, knees, hooks, and uppercuts... And I'm saying this as someone who has done karate for 7 years and has a black belt (shodan) in Shotokan.
👍
Before UFC, Bruce Lee created Jeet Kun Do and Mas Oyama created Kyokushin so basically those are the O.G. mixed martial arts styles.
I kind of disagree with stick with one core both Sensei's. Body development should be the core. Is more important than any from of martial arts. Once you understand your how to use your own body everthing will makes sence.
Body development and raw combat knowledge as well. You need to be able to recognize attacks and know how to counter or defend them. You need to know where, when and what you are open to getting countered by when you throw a strike. When you want to expand your knowledge start with comparing different executions of technique you already know. Even in the same art some people do things more efficiently and safer than others, you should try to find out what they are doing different and replicate it. Core doesn’t need to be a particular martial art it can be built from using your brain to think how combat works until you know good ways to deal with everything thrown at you in a fight.
There are some styles of Kung fu that could be considered a mixed martial art such as hung gar. Hung gar seems to apply elements from both tiger and crane styles of Kung fu
well all of kungfu is pretty much useless so it doesn't really matter
@@Rubisco2510 All of Kung Fu? Oh god you’re one of those people
@@javiersoriano671 as long as it's not proven to work it doesn't.
@@Rubisco2510 oh so let’s just act like they’re aren’t some techniques that come from Kung fu or other traditional styles haven’t snuck their way into the cage. From Joaquin Buckley who used a TKD 2 touch kick (which can also be seen in some northern styles of Kung fu where a majority of Korean arts may have derived from) Tony Ferguson using trapping from Wing Chun and also practicing with a wooden dummy (both of which isn’t just exclusive to wing chun) Zabit Malgomedsharipov and Cung Le who have done San Shou (before you dare say that San Shou isn’t a real Kung fu style know that it is a curriculum/hybrid style derived from Kung fu styles like Choy li fut, Shuai Jiao, Baji Quan and others with a hint of western boxing. Muay Thai which is worshipped among MMA gym bros forget it’s parent art Muay Boran is an umbrella term like Kung Fu. There’s more than one Muay Boran like muay lopburi and muay chaiya. Those Thai styles all ended up merging together with western boxing around the 30’s to make what is now modern Muay Thai. San Shou did the same thing with Kung Fu but y’all are all like lol Muay Thai copycats) Michael Venom Page is another MMA guy who has a background in Kung fu as well. Lyoto Machida, Wonderboy, GSP? All mma guys who are also karate guys! Where did karate come from? White crane Kung fu. I’ve had it with fool’s generalizing Kung fu as trash because of some shitty schools and wimpy “masters”
@@javiersoriano671 Well let's address the moves here. Sure they are found in Kung-Fu. However, there are only so many attacks and many more people. The question is about who utilizes it properly. From what we see the use of jab was highly pioneered by boxing. Now it was pioneered by boxing due to a large amount of sparing it had not cus it invented it. The only reason I believe most kung-fu is useless is due to the lack of sparing in the dojo/gym/ whatever they call it. I took a look at San Shou and honestly, it looks very similar to kickboxing. In fact so does Qi La La, the Wing Chung practitioner that is actually kicking ass. While he does some techniques differently it still looks like mainly kickboxing. This is due to the fact that fighting is always fighting. If you spar you will always come to very very similar conclusions. Funny enough I think the only real thing that shapes styles is the ruleset (why the Thai were trash at punching was cus it scored low points). Now all the karate and kung fu forms seem rather strange and alien or hyperfocused on one aspect, for example, some kungfu dance-like forms and wing chungs hyperfocus on the pocket (it's useful however fighters only stay there for less than a second). If you spar you will always come back to something similar to kickboxing and MMA. Perhaps the eastern styles have something more to offer, however, it seems that those things are some obscure case-by-case moves rather than a solid foundation.
Bruce lee was not the first for example Hapkido was before JKD
Bartitsu was even earlier, 1890s. It incorporated stick fighting, savate (French kick boxing), Jujitsu, traditional European wrestling (Schwingen, I think), boxing and others.
In India iam worry about karate going ways😢
Also in point karate you don't learn to keep sparring after you get hit because once the guy hits you he does Hekete and waits for the judge to award the point
Thoughts on the Olympic Karate Disqualification?
What was he disqualified for?
@@varanid9 There was a Karate Kumite match at the Olympics and one guy got disqualified for "excessive force" and the guy that got KOed won gold.
It is better if you just google Olympic Karate Disqualification since majority of the martial arts world is laughing at Shotokan and the World Karate Federation.
@@vincentlee7359,
Sensei Seth did a video of it but was taken down by RUclips.
@@BoxingForTheStreets That's dumb
However, MMA is it's own martial art so you can be a master of MMA as your core too. They just don't give out belts (yet)
The point of MMA is that it is not it's own martial art but a sport where practitioners of all unarmed martial arts can compete against each other
I am not so sure that in 2021, it's necessary for an athlete to have a core martial art training prior to taking up MMA, to be successful in MMA. I believe that Rory MacDonald, for example, started his training in MMA, though later also took up BJJ and achieved a black belt in that activity.
If you look at the current professional competitors, most of the top people had a successful background in collegiate wrestling. Why is that? Because to be successful in collegiate wrestling, you had be successful in high school wrestling, meaning that the sport of wrestling had already filtered out all but the most athletic people.
Mma in Japan was tied to pro wrestling. I don’t think the sport was ever that big there on its own. Pride started by using wrestlers to attract viewers there and always kept that connection to keep its fans. After the Yakuza scandal it all went away. In the US the sport as as big now as it ever was. Globally it’s bigger than ever.
Jeet kin do was the first mma? I don't know who the host here is, but he's obviously got no experience of traditional karate or taiji to name just 2 martial arts, because they both contain strikes grappling and attacks to opponents who are grounded. Not mma the sport but still this felt way off reality.
@Mike Baxter autocorrect, get over it 😋
I think you can do OK learning 2 martial arts at the same time, I did Judo and boxing for 15 years, I also played rugby at the same time and condition training 7 days a week, my mate Norm trained me in some Thai boxing to, I incorporated the Thai clinch into my boxing and judo throws but I've never been a big fan of high kicking, its too much of a gamble on a slippy street in a street fight.
Salam Alaykum Sensei watch the fight Khabib vs Barboza watch korean zombie vs Yair rodrigez or Mark Hunt vs Antonio silva.
The problem with a core is many arts have techniques that are not valuable in fighting. They are useless or only work against its own practitioners. Many arts do not have the system to expose those holes and remove them. Because these arts do stay traditional. Spending 10 years to be an expert leaves little time to add the skills needed and removed the bad habits. Keep in mind what the guys in the ufc learn and use are all proven techniques that have been discovered through actually fighting over the last 28 years with the entire world watching and learning. Which creates a hyper evolution of the sport that changes before your eyes. There was a time head kicks didn’t work and we’re frowned upon. Eventually fighters added the skills needed to make head kicks a valuable weapon again. The same happen to the jab in boxing. Now some kicks and movements from karate and TKD are finding their way in the sport that used to be seen as useless because so many failed from those arts in the past. New skills from other styles breaths life into techniques from other styles and arts.
Excellent comment.
It’s strange seeing them use logic from the early 90’s that has been proven to not fly today. Saying a BJJ or wrestler isn’t prepared for strikes doesn’t make sense. We saw in the first UFC what happens when it’s style verses style. A pure BJJ person is way better off than a pure striker especially pure karate. If those ground fighters wanted to add striking they would and have plenty of strikers and boxers and kickboxers to learn from often in their very same dojo or gym. Fighters do it all and the ones who do t do it all are doing things way more effective on its own then karate. Looking down on ground fighters for their flaws when pure karate has the same flaws on the ground. Then criticize MmA fighters for not being experts in one style. This reeks of desperation to justify faith in a style that isn’t having the same results when tested. Also talking about the sport not being popular when the highest paid athlete last year was a UFC fighter. The old man is basic his opinion on his circle which is way out of the MMa demographic. This is a mindset making excuses to not evolve. As mma grows in Asia they will be left behind as the schools that evolve produce fighters the public supports. Both guys were respectful but their bias clearly shows. At least they didn’t stripe karate guys of their Fred’s like traditional martial artist used to do when their art lost. Claim so and so isn’t a real this or that. But the mentality is the same to preserve their art in the fact of evolving changes. There is people looking for that and don’t want to fight but I think they should embrace what has proven to work in their art more and educate their students on what styles and techniques and game plans can make their weapons even stronger.
Mmm
2nd
Completely disagree with the notion that you should master or specialize in a martial art before starting another one. That sort of close mindedness is what gets strikers taken down and strangled and grapplers knocked the hell out.
30 years ago? Try ten.
"JKD was the first MMA" yeah sure buddy
UFC: Tecnicaly superb! As human example: terrible!
No, it s not coming down mma ahahaaa
He's wrong, The UFC is bigger than ever and growing. One of the drivers is the gambling industry, just like the NFL.
Yes. It's more popular than Boxing.
If I was a retired Japanese I'd be watching anime.
Training MMA is THE closest you'll get to training in REAL fighting
Belts are not regulated . The truth is they are a fantasy . Look around and most belt systems change partially or vastly . The truth is , if you have a black belt , chances are you're getting stuck by tradition . This limits you greatly . A black belt puts food on the table . Real skill keeps you alive . You say it's good to get a base in one style . I say learn from anywhere & your growth will be unlimited .
The main function of shotokan was for physical education, exercise. Not combat. The deep stances are terrible for combat. Even when they spar they use absolutely none of their actual kata techniques. They just do sport karate.
As I understand, originally the stances weren't so deep.
I would qualify that Kajukenbo (an acronym for Karate, Judo/Jujitsu, Kenpo, and Boxing) actually preceded Bruce Lee’s thoughts, as some of Lee’s students have acknowledged. It has a fascinating history that you’d find interesting. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kajukenbo