Hi Brothgar ;) i think you missed one critical part. The circut overload are only create from the power consumption, the power production will not cause circut overloads. Because of this, you get circut overload from your transformer to transformer system. A transformer can send and receive power umlimited, if it has access to enough power (on the provider side) and something to use enough power. It is easier to connect all power production systems with 20kW wires, than use transformers to transfer power from power production (20kW) to power consuming systems (1kW (wire) or 2kW (Conductive Wire)). You can use smart batteries to stop power production from different sources. One smart batterie for source. As example: Hydrogen => less then 90 % Natural => less then 80% Coal => less then 70% Manuel Generator => less then 10% One benefit is that some source will be used first before others. You can use smart batterie to save power for important systems. If the smart batterie has low power, you can deactived the transformer to unimportant system. ----------------------- HyGen + HyGen + SmartBatterie ( < 90%) ||==================== (20kW) || NaturalGen + NaturalGen + SmartBatterie ( < 80%) ||==================== (20kW) || || Transformer => (2kW) ============ || || Transformer => (1kW) ============ || || Transformer => (1kW) ============ || SmartBatterie (< 50%) than shutdown one or more transformers ------------------------ Have a good day ;) Thank for your videos
agreed, brothgar thinking too much making things complicated. put the heavy watt wire straight into the battery bank, keep the power shut off tho to allow the smart battery to build up first and then instantly offload on repeat. then from the battery bank have transformers to any equipment that draws power. edit, also you need to turn the power transformers around with O so the cheap wire doesn't overload. the strong side connects to the battery with 2k wire and then onto equipement drawing power
He said very clearly on the video that he did not want to run heavy watt wire all over the base, that's why he did those tests. The solution that you propose is the same I used and it is the most obvious one.
THANK YOU! I literally just spent 2 hours re-wiring my world because of this.
6 лет назад+15
By the way when generating electricity with the shine bugs you can put the grooming station and the critter feeder at an open point on the map, it is not really necessary that they are inside a room to be tamed, so the bigger your map exploration more shine bugs you will have without running the risk of losing enlightenment. This will cause them to clump and lay a huge amount of eggs, after about 50 cycles it is almost impossible to see what is on the map, this is the time to put the solar panels lol. I did the same post with a screenshot, but i think links are blocked...
Cool experiment! I think that your coal generator setup limits the effective power production, since the coal generator can't be running all of the time. If the smart battery is charged at 600W and discharged at 1000W alternately, then the generator will run 1000/1600 = 5/8th of the time, giving you an effective power generation of 375W. I think it might be more efficient just to wire the generator into the grid with a single power transformer. Adding a smart battery to control the generator might make it a little more responsive when you don't need the power, but I'm not sure it's necessary. If you need a transformer at the generator end, then your generator is probably producing more power than you are capable of shifting to the grid, and it would perhaps be better to use conductive wires. (The exception being where you are running other equipment from the generators 'off grid'.)
To an extent I understand using the 'big' batteries, but assuming the resources are there (metal volcano or all of the iron 'up top') I don't really understand not just using Smart Batteries for all their benefits. My latest bases have taken to setting up an array of Smart Batteries (of whatever quantity), with each battery set to specific values and connected to different generators with automation. Since they are all connected, they share a power level, and I can set, say, a hydrogen generator to 40%, natural gas generator to 50%, and have coal as an emergency backup at 20%. I don't usually play with transformers (though this has given me reason to consider it,) but that setup still wouldn't stop you from setting up transformers for individual power grid sections, functionally with the exact same effect, fewer resources required (overall,) and you can still decentralize your generators from the power bank.
In the design with the coal generator, there's a flaw. The automatic arm that delivers coal is working on the same power circuit as the generator. If during a certain period you don't have coal, the generator will not be supplied, the battery will be empty and the arms would be off so even if you have coal afterwards, the arm will not supply (no power). You have to keep them on a separate power grid. Same with the gaz pumps.
Yes, because the battery is empty, when it is connected it act as a short circuit creaking a peak current. It is amazing that the programed it on the game. This game always surprises me.
3:41 I think coal generators actually run all the time, and the threshold only determines when duplicants (or maybe auto sweeper) will refuel it. Edit: I commented too soon. My mistake. A second thing of note: I think all your batteries should be on the heavi-watt side. If you have a battery after your transformers, then machine(s) that draw more than 1kW will drain the batteries along with the generators and overload the grid. If the batteries are _behind_ the transformers, then the network will only draw what can be supplied by the transformers (1 or 2 kw) I hope one day ONI gets realistic (Voltage and current modelling) electrics, because I've never seen that in a game before.
At 12:20 you said it's not what you wanted. Thanks btw :) I just subscribed some days ago. I don't play Oni that much but when i do i like crazy ideas and everything what guys like you (Who play much more then me) knows. So i like this type of videos. It also helps you to REthink what you want. :) So big like! Don't stop creating content on RUclips! :)
For nat gas and hydrogen, if you use up all the gas (if you get it from a geyser like in your current playthrough) the system will have to be kick-started again. You could measure the gas pressure and automate that as well, but it would be simpler to allow the backup generator (for most people that's coal I think) to support restarting the gas pump and filter.
6 лет назад+4
By the way when generating electricity with the shine bugs you can put the grooming station and the critter feeder at an open point on the map, it is not really necessary that they are inside a room to be tamed, so the bigger your map exploration more shine bugs you will have without running the risk of losing enlightenment. This will cause them to clump and lay a huge amount of eggs, after about 50 cycles it is almost impossible to see what is on the map, this is the time to put the solar panels lol. Screenshot of what happens: prntscr.com/kcwo63
6 лет назад
If you want to see from the beginning (activate subtitles xD): ruclips.net/p/PLE6ADn3xCGMZ3FpA4hIsd06GT9fQh6Yc_
Def interesting, honestly though I'm more mindblown by the standing lamp sitting on the same level as your Bristle Blossoms. Never even considered that lol. Thanks for that indirect idea share!
6 лет назад+1
Thanks man, feel free to comment in the videos, ill reply to you in english xD.
For sure, I got about 400 hours so I know a good amount but there's always little things you might not think of that others do so I'm always looking for other people's methods.
I am at minute 4 and I have to mention, that you have to connect the Smart Battery with the Coal generator or it will run until the coal runs out.... regardless of the settings of the coal generator. edit: okay you got it. Interesting that you didn't knew that
Brothgar the reason why the last part didn’t work was because the automation wasn’t connected to the last transformer and it was drawing the current strait from the source transformer. It source transformer can only supply 1000watts and the wire can only deal with 1000 watts. However the conductive wire was drawings the 1.2KW from the metal refinery. So u would need to connect automation to the second transformer. Or if any of that doesn’t work this might sound silly but try flipping the second transformer round. Hope this helps?
Sorry looked again basically at 24:45 u can see that the battery starts to back feed into the main power grid as the transformer at the power grid shows green numbers indicating it is being charged. As a battery doesn’t put out a set voltage it will try to loose all its energy all at once hence why u get over 5000watts flowing all at once???
But the problem is it really shouldn't do /that/. It's supposed to limit what you can actually draw, and separate two power grids. The max a small transformer should ever draw, or push, is supposed to be 1000. Otherwise there is no point in having a transformer. It's a bug, not a feature.
Transformers have a high input side and low output side. When using two transformers to limit the current in a length of wire u have to have the two low outputs/inputs connecting. Not the low put out and high input. Because the smarty battery is connected to the low out put on conductive wire it will the try and send a stepped up current out of the high output side which is connected to the low current wire. Hence why it breaks. Basically the solution to this needs to be a way to prevent the battery back feeding into the main power bank once it is charged which is why I think the automation wasn’t connected to the transformer.
So we have a material storge/ fridge powered food storage and now a power storage too. next would be some sort of gas storage and well.. weveryone has built at least one water tank already
I use a power bank connected to tansformers connected to 1 or 2 smart batteries that kick on the transformer when the smart battery/s get low so they only draw from the bank when needed
Brothgar, interesting concept except it does not allow for tiered generation. Since it seems your trying to reduce your automation wire, i might suggest changing your current setup to use 2 smart batteries and two transformers such that you minimize the generator cycling. Power wise: Gen(s)->sbattery 1->transformer 1->sbattery 2->low current transmission->transformer 2->bank. Automation wise: Gen(s)sbattery 1->low current transmission. Output automation wise: transformer 1
There is a nifty trick that allows to transfer more power than the limit of the wire. Batteries are NOT considered power consumers, hence they will not cause wire damage ... even if you transfer 4K over 2K wire; power shutoffs and smart batteries
first things first sorry about my english ^) Still learning.. second things second - thanks you for what you doing! It's amazing :3 i like it finally to the topic: why wouldn't you just build one huge battery (HB) (number of batteries till max of heavy wire) that feed your entire base in one side, other side you have all your E-producing, and finally a tiny spot with one-two coal-gen and smart battery, that have both in and out ways wires in order to detect if your HB is empty? So in this case you have your automatics to cut off your secondary e-consuming points, first of all; in the same time this tiny spot going to feed your HB and this way reload your E-production spots, in case it stopped it's work. And than you back to normal work automatically. Just notice, once you've ran over your power - you consuming more than producing, and deal with it/
You're making it way more complicated than it needs to be. Put all your generators in the same area on the same heavy watt circuit, a single smart battery automating them all to keep waste at a minimum from the power drain, put regular batteries on the smaller circuits after the transformers. The power will prioritize the large batteries on each circuit, filling the smart battery on the heavy watt circuit only when the reserves are full and shuts the generators down.
IMHO, having a spider web kinda power distribution is not very efficient, as it will get chaotic over time. Something to consider is having condensed, centralized power generation to the side, that will supply power to a nearby smart battery array. That will go out vertically with heavy wire up and down, just in a straight line, and as we build horizontal walkways when we dig out the map, we can just place occasional transformers in a predictable vertical grid as necessary, with a smart battery as the output controlling it. That way, if we have equipment that has some automation and will only function occasionally, like gas pumps or whatever, it will drain power from the smart battery while the transformer is shut down. Its just a little heat, yes, but in LONG runs, every bit of heat counts, and its just more efficient overall. All that is to it is building a vertical access up and down straight from the main colony, within safety for unwelcome gases and liquids to flow up or down, with heavy wire on the ladder. Its just a matter of planning ahead, in other words, conquer the rock, not build around it.
@Brothgar can you do some work with the idea of the generator rooms and the ability of dupes to increase output of the generators and why you never seem to really use one?
Why not branch the power output from the generator and use 2 power shutoffs, a not gate and a smart battery to determine if power output goes to local battery bank (smart battery) or central.
So what good is a large transformer now? The conductive wire is at 2kw right? So the 4kw from large transformer is going to blow the conductive wire... so the only thing you can feed from a large transformer is heavy watt wire.. which makes it completely obsolete???
The only way I would compress this type of build is to directly connect the bridges to the transformers on the same tile to reduce decor impact. I thought Conductive Heavi's had like, 40-200 capacity compared to 20. Then there's the fact that you can increase efficiency of power generators if you make generator rooms with power control chips. Question: Could you use the same wattage of wire from high power to low power on a transformer? Standard conductive wires would be better in terms of transferring power from generator to battery, smaller transformers would be better for powering individual stations, in my opinion. -Forgot that Sieve's need Sand and produce polluted dirt.-
Vaarel that's what sucks about the machine buffs. If they didn't nerf stuff like the fert maker ng generator combo then power generation could be more centralized but because they don't want that power is for the most part rather scattered and ultimately decentralized.
I use the PCU with a centralized power station. A few seperate rooms with a few coal generators in each one, each storing power into batteries from smart batteries just like he was doing in the beginning. I just run power out in 2kw wires to reduce wire clutter around the base. Works extremely well. My base is super cool from running all my power in one location away from my base. Im on cycle 250ish and have 6 coal generators that stand idle most of the time because of the smart batteries feeding my massive battery room. I also use 2 self sustaining electrolyzers in a cold biome that are feeding the hydrogen gas half a map away to my centralized power plant. The excess power from my hydrogen generators help charge my batteries. Havent messed with natural gas yet because I have 45tons of coal still.
@Brothgar in your usual style you're over building. You should never need 2 transformers in series, the second one will always be useless. Think of a transformer as a circuit isolating and limiting 1 way power door. It looks to me like your overdraw situation at the end was very specifically a bug, probably because the second transformer was isolating the low power wire and the primary transformer from the actual power demand. My suggestion would be to remove the second transformer and see if that solves the issue. Also you're on the right track when you switched the coal control circuit to an automated power switch, you shouldn't really ever need to run a transformer as a switch, unless you plan to combine the switch and the transformer which he could've done in that scenario too. I can't see a situation where you'd want to switch off the power input to your distribution *substation* you'd probably want the substation getting it's power from the generator while also allowing the generator to feed it's own battery. The substation batteries are really just there to supply overdemand when necessary, ideally they'd only be in places where I have high demand components, or mission critical components, like those that supply the generators. Batteries are important in the early game because you don't want your manual generators always running. After that they're important to not waste resources now that you can control your generators off the battery charge. What I would do is isolate the generator supply components with a small transformer on a circuit with it's own battery so they don't go down when the generator is offline. Lastly, you need to think about why everything is there and what it's doing. You need the generator, obviously as the start of your power system. You need the smart battery to tell it when to turn on and off so you aren't wasting supplies, (hydrogen/coal/etc). You want the transformer to keep from using expensive and ugly heavy watt wire everywhere. I personally haven't found an ideal layout for the heavy watt wire, I tend to have generation on a separate level and that means I'm running heavy watt wire from the generators up to the transformers that are on each demand level, and that's pricy on heavy watt wire. The other option would be to put several transformers on your power level and then send lots of runs out to your various other demand area's which also gets hairy and complex very quickly. So I usually run several residential/commercial demand levels, and next to each level behind mechanical doors I have the transformer, and with that a heavy-watt cable runs up and down an entire side of my base, usually that cable also runs through the power generation room and then back UP the other side of the base to supply the next set of demand levels. It ends up being a heavy cost on wire. Basically transformers add a huge level of necessary complexity to late game bases, but you're never really prepared for that late game complexity on the scale of your base, so stuff gets ugly very quickly.
One more thing: The only issue I've run into is that I can't cross Heavi-Watt with my tubes. It's only an Issue because I wanted to link my solar power to it but I've since given up on that since I really don't need the solar power. I figure I'll only use it for my space base when there's more of space base lol (like in the coming upgrade). Other than that it works perfectly for my needs.
At the last part. -> You connect wrong output at transformator. See BIG 'bolt' for higer output - small 'bolt' for low output. (and watch out for arrows at transformator) This is reason wyh this not working -> over 1k at wire)
Brothgar... Overall this video was somewhat confusing. What would be helpful is answering... How to run a machine that draws over 1000 watts using the least amount of Conductive Wire... if that's even possible. If I have two Coal plants (1600w of generation) at different locations in my base, and a machine that draws more than 1000w somewhere else... what is the best way to get that power across the base using the least expensive wire? Is it possible to merge two 1000w lines and somehow combine them into Conductive Wire without overloading the two 1000w wire lines? Can that be done using some combination of Transformers and Batteries? I think we can easily go from LARGE bank to small lines. Bank(20kw)->Large Transformer(4kw)-> 4 Small Transformers (1kw each). Can we go the other way without overloading 1000w wire... essentially merging 2 1000w lines into a single 2kw line?
This might be a bit of a crazy idea but could you run your whole power distribution off one smart battery and connect all of your power plants together with automation wire. Then have different systems kick in when the power drops to certain levels
pete5537808 I suppose you could do that, e.g. by using filter gates for staggering the automation signal to the different generators, although without a way to monitor if the various generator types are supplied with their respective resources, you might run the risk of brown- or blackouts before the gens further down the line would kick in. Personally, I prefer having peace of mind by taking the negligible surplus power runoff from several smart batteries (one per generator type in use) each set to activate at different charge percentage.
This makes little sense to me. I mean, I'm not good at the game so there is no surprize. Why would you want to shut your generator down most of the time (20/21.) I usual make a service channel throughout my base, which I know is a pain. But I don't see this to be a solution. If the trough put between your generator and batteries are only 1KW, then why not just use 1KW wire the whole time?(well, all the way from generators to batteries, then use heavier ones.)
@brothgar , can you please start a new map? I would really like how you see early game, since expressive has reworked stress and decor/morale. All of my dupes are at wits end by cycle 20.
Ah, yes, the Battery Recharge Threshold for coal generators is not the operation of the coal generator itself, but the delivery of materials to be stored and used by the coal generator, when there is coal in the generator, it will function unless an automation wire tells it not to, and as long as the connected batteries' net charge is less than the Battery Recharge Threshold, dupes + conveyor systems will supply the coal generators until full, and when making a base, at least for me, this is REALLY aggravating, as coal and power is being wasted. Brothgar, you may have not noticed this until now because you were just paying more attention to other things.
Sieves now turn sand into polluted dirt, you can then compost that into dirt. Since sand is virtually limitless because you can crush anything into sand you can turn any resource you can crush to sand into dirt this way.
Just when asked myself : where can I find a pretty nice and clear updated tutorial about power management in ONI... my favorite ONI's youtuber published an all video about it. Did I've premonition or do you read in my mind ? However, thanks a lot for this one (and for my first comments on your channel : thanks for all your work. It's really amazing how far you push the data analysis to optimize your choice. How you test ideas, theories, concepts, to use every little thing the game give you.) All my supports to you. Hopes you can go on like this as far as you wish to.
Why do you even try to disable the transformer while charging the battery? There's literally no point to it if you use heavy-watt wire (I'd understand the approach if you used normal wires, because that's possible, but heavy?).
Disabling the transformers also stops the heat generation they give off. Personally I find it negligable because it's only 5w of heat and I use a sort of "maintenance shaft" that's sealed behind abyssalite so the heat really doesn't matter but I can see how some people might want that.
Isn't the fertilizer thingy make natural gas? If yes, why dont try to put gas pump and a gas filter to the room with the fertilizer thingy and then build a gas pipe to the room with natural gas to make some sort of infinite power?
minelerscz once upon a time it was basically infinite power but now that you need dirt to make fertilizer and the ng output is halved it takes more resources to get any sorta yeild and possibly doesn't even net power anymore. I gotta see the math on that though.
I think the whole 30min just: why so complicated. Just connect all energy making systems to heavy watt wire and use the transformers and normal wires for the rest... mostly im really impressed by what you build, but u make problem where no is :P
this game breaks the law of entropy in so many ways i cant play it. If they balanced it it would be an awesome simulator i would spend thousands hours ++
Brothgar if you still have a problem with overload you should be able to get around it if you use this contraption at every consumer you could in theory connect every generator on the power in side, without overloading: prnt.sc/kd0i65
If you want a tutorial regarding the big power transformer, you can read mine - forums.kleientertainment.com/topic/93455-electricity-tutorial/ You can see how you can use the Big power transformer to power up your entire grid by using almost only normal wires.
OK, I just watched the overloading of your normal wire between the 2 small power transformers. It happens because there's a hidden catch - when the small power transformer is charging a battery, it acts as a consumer on the high side with up to 5kW consumption, similarly to the big power transformer. The only difference between the two is when they're supplying consumers - then the small PT is limited to 1kW, whereas the big one can still provide 4kW. But when it comes to charging batteries - they both draw 4-5kW and that's what's frying your wires. ;-)
Hi Brothgar ;)
i think you missed one critical part.
The circut overload are only create from the power consumption, the power production will not cause circut overloads.
Because of this, you get circut overload from your transformer to transformer system.
A transformer can send and receive power umlimited, if it has access to enough power (on the provider side) and something to use enough power.
It is easier to connect all power production systems with 20kW wires, than use transformers to transfer power from power production (20kW) to power consuming systems (1kW (wire) or 2kW (Conductive Wire)).
You can use smart batteries to stop power production from different sources. One smart batterie for source.
As example:
Hydrogen => less then 90 %
Natural => less then 80%
Coal => less then 70%
Manuel Generator => less then 10%
One benefit is that some source will be used first before others.
You can use smart batterie to save power for important systems.
If the smart batterie has low power, you can deactived the transformer to unimportant system.
-----------------------
HyGen + HyGen + SmartBatterie ( < 90%)
||==================== (20kW)
|| NaturalGen + NaturalGen + SmartBatterie ( < 80%)
||==================== (20kW)
||
|| Transformer => (2kW) ============
||
|| Transformer => (1kW) ============
||
|| Transformer => (1kW) ============
|| SmartBatterie (< 50%) than shutdown one or more transformers
------------------------
Have a good day ;)
Thank for your videos
agreed, brothgar thinking too much making things complicated.
put the heavy watt wire straight into the battery bank, keep the power shut off tho to allow the smart battery to build up first and then instantly offload on repeat. then from the battery bank have transformers to any equipment that draws power.
edit, also you need to turn the power transformers around with O so the cheap wire doesn't overload. the strong side connects to the battery with 2k wire and then onto equipement drawing power
He said very clearly on the video that he did not want to run heavy watt wire all over the base, that's why he did those tests.
The solution that you propose is the same I used and it is the most obvious one.
THANK YOU! I literally just spent 2 hours re-wiring my world because of this.
By the way when generating electricity with the shine bugs you can put the grooming station and the critter feeder at an open point on the map, it is not really necessary that they are inside a room to be tamed, so the bigger your map exploration more shine bugs you will have without running the risk of losing enlightenment. This will cause them to clump and lay a huge amount of eggs, after about 50 cycles it is almost impossible to see what is on the map, this is the time to put the solar panels lol.
I did the same post with a screenshot, but i think links are blocked...
Cool experiment! I think that your coal generator setup limits the effective power production, since the coal generator can't be running all of the time. If the smart battery is charged at 600W and discharged at 1000W alternately, then the generator will run 1000/1600 = 5/8th of the time, giving you an effective power generation of 375W. I think it might be more efficient just to wire the generator into the grid with a single power transformer. Adding a smart battery to control the generator might make it a little more responsive when you don't need the power, but I'm not sure it's necessary. If you need a transformer at the generator end, then your generator is probably producing more power than you are capable of shifting to the grid, and it would perhaps be better to use conductive wires. (The exception being where you are running other equipment from the generators 'off grid'.)
To an extent I understand using the 'big' batteries, but assuming the resources are there (metal volcano or all of the iron 'up top') I don't really understand not just using Smart Batteries for all their benefits. My latest bases have taken to setting up an array of Smart Batteries (of whatever quantity), with each battery set to specific values and connected to different generators with automation. Since they are all connected, they share a power level, and I can set, say, a hydrogen generator to 40%, natural gas generator to 50%, and have coal as an emergency backup at 20%. I don't usually play with transformers (though this has given me reason to consider it,) but that setup still wouldn't stop you from setting up transformers for individual power grid sections, functionally with the exact same effect, fewer resources required (overall,) and you can still decentralize your generators from the power bank.
the % in the coal generator setting means that the battery is lower than that percentage, dupes will deliver coal if the generator is empty.
In the design with the coal generator, there's a flaw. The automatic arm that delivers coal is working on the same power circuit as the generator. If during a certain period you don't have coal, the generator will not be supplied, the battery will be empty and the arms would be off so even if you have coal afterwards, the arm will not supply (no power). You have to keep them on a separate power grid. Same with the gaz pumps.
at 25:00 the 5000watt load is called inrush current due to the Joule capacity of the transformer.
Yes, because the battery is empty, when it is connected it act as a short circuit creaking a peak current. It is amazing that the programed it on the game. This game always surprises me.
The big transformer is kinda designed for the big watt wires. You know the big watts to small wirez?
nice power tutorial
finally the advanced one
So that's the use for smart batteries! Thank you for the information!
3:41 I think coal generators actually run all the time, and the threshold only determines when duplicants (or maybe auto sweeper) will refuel it.
Edit: I commented too soon. My mistake.
A second thing of note: I think all your batteries should be on the heavi-watt side. If you have a battery after your transformers, then machine(s) that draw more than 1kW will drain the batteries along with the generators and overload the grid. If the batteries are _behind_ the transformers, then the network will only draw what can be supplied by the transformers (1 or 2 kw)
I hope one day ONI gets realistic (Voltage and current modelling) electrics, because I've never seen that in a game before.
At 12:20 you said it's not what you wanted. Thanks btw :) I just subscribed some days ago. I don't play Oni that much but when i do i like crazy ideas and everything what guys like you (Who play much more then me) knows. So i like this type of videos. It also helps you to REthink what you want. :) So big like! Don't stop creating content on RUclips! :)
For nat gas and hydrogen, if you use up all the gas (if you get it from a geyser like in your current playthrough) the system will have to be kick-started again. You could measure the gas pressure and automate that as well, but it would be simpler to allow the backup generator (for most people that's coal I think) to support restarting the gas pump and filter.
By the way when generating electricity with the shine bugs you can put the grooming station and the critter feeder at an open point on the map, it is not really necessary that they are inside a room to be tamed, so the bigger your map exploration more shine bugs you will have without running the risk of losing enlightenment. This will cause them to clump and lay a huge amount of eggs, after about 50 cycles it is almost impossible to see what is on the map, this is the time to put the solar panels lol.
Screenshot of what happens:
prntscr.com/kcwo63
If you want to see from the beginning (activate subtitles xD): ruclips.net/p/PLE6ADn3xCGMZ3FpA4hIsd06GT9fQh6Yc_
Def interesting, honestly though I'm more mindblown by the standing lamp sitting on the same level as your Bristle Blossoms. Never even considered that lol. Thanks for that indirect idea share!
Thanks man, feel free to comment in the videos, ill reply to you in english xD.
For sure, I got about 400 hours so I know a good amount but there's always little things you might not think of that others do so I'm always looking for other people's methods.
That's impressive lol. What's the decor like in the middle of that... sun?
SUPER helpful video in regards to my current base! Thanks :D
I am at minute 4 and I have to mention, that you have to connect the Smart Battery with the Coal generator or it will run until the coal runs out.... regardless of the settings of the coal generator.
edit: okay you got it. Interesting that you didn't knew that
Brothgar the reason why the last part didn’t work was because the automation wasn’t connected to the last transformer and it was drawing the current strait from the source transformer. It source transformer can only supply 1000watts and the wire can only deal with 1000 watts. However the conductive wire was drawings the 1.2KW from the metal refinery. So u would need to connect automation to the second transformer. Or if any of that doesn’t work this might sound silly but try flipping the second transformer round. Hope this helps?
Sorry looked again basically at 24:45 u can see that the battery starts to back feed into the main power grid as the transformer at the power grid shows green numbers indicating it is being charged. As a battery doesn’t put out a set voltage it will try to loose all its energy all at once hence why u get over 5000watts flowing all at once???
But the problem is it really shouldn't do /that/. It's supposed to limit what you can actually draw, and separate two power grids. The max a small transformer should ever draw, or push, is supposed to be 1000. Otherwise there is no point in having a transformer. It's a bug, not a feature.
Transformers have a high input side and low output side. When using two transformers to limit the current in a length of wire u have to have the two low outputs/inputs connecting. Not the low put out and high input. Because the smarty battery is connected to the low out put on conductive wire it will the try and send a stepped up current out of the high output side which is connected to the low current wire. Hence why it breaks. Basically the solution to this needs to be a way to prevent the battery back feeding into the main power bank once it is charged which is why I think the automation wasn’t connected to the transformer.
So we have a material storge/ fridge powered food storage and now a power storage too. next would be some sort of gas storage and well.. weveryone has built at least one water tank already
I use a power bank connected to tansformers connected to 1 or 2 smart batteries that kick on the transformer when the smart battery/s get low so they only draw from the bank when needed
Brothgar, interesting concept except it does not allow for tiered generation. Since it seems your trying to reduce your automation wire, i might suggest changing your current setup to use 2 smart batteries and two transformers such that you minimize the generator cycling. Power wise: Gen(s)->sbattery 1->transformer 1->sbattery 2->low current transmission->transformer 2->bank. Automation wise: Gen(s)sbattery 1->low current transmission. Output automation wise: transformer 1
You have a really calming voice
The power control station how do i setup that thing?
U know what i'm going to say: ur my favourite youtuber
There is a nifty trick that allows to transfer more power than the limit of the wire. Batteries are NOT considered power consumers, hence they will not cause wire damage ... even if you transfer 4K over 2K wire; power shutoffs and smart batteries
first things first sorry about my english ^) Still learning..
second things second - thanks you for what you doing! It's amazing :3 i like it
finally to the topic:
why wouldn't you just build one huge battery (HB) (number of batteries till max of heavy wire) that feed your entire base in one side, other side you have all your E-producing, and finally a tiny spot with one-two coal-gen and smart battery, that have both in and out ways wires in order to detect if your HB is empty? So in this case you have your automatics to cut off your secondary e-consuming points, first of all; in the same time this tiny spot going to feed your HB and this way reload your E-production spots, in case it stopped it's work. And than you back to normal work automatically.
Just notice, once you've ran over your power - you consuming more than producing, and deal with it/
You're making it way more complicated than it needs to be. Put all your generators in the same area on the same heavy watt circuit, a single smart battery automating them all to keep waste at a minimum from the power drain, put regular batteries on the smaller circuits after the transformers. The power will prioritize the large batteries on each circuit, filling the smart battery on the heavy watt circuit only when the reserves are full and shuts the generators down.
Brothgar. In the natural gas section, the second transformer could be replaced with a simple power coupler instead.
IMHO, having a spider web kinda power distribution is not very efficient, as it will get chaotic over time. Something to consider is having condensed, centralized power generation to the side, that will supply power to a nearby smart battery array. That will go out vertically with heavy wire up and down, just in a straight line, and as we build horizontal walkways when we dig out the map, we can just place occasional transformers in a predictable vertical grid as necessary, with a smart battery as the output controlling it. That way, if we have equipment that has some automation and will only function occasionally, like gas pumps or whatever, it will drain power from the smart battery while the transformer is shut down. Its just a little heat, yes, but in LONG runs, every bit of heat counts, and its just more efficient overall. All that is to it is building a vertical access up and down straight from the main colony, within safety for unwelcome gases and liquids to flow up or down, with heavy wire on the ladder. Its just a matter of planning ahead, in other words, conquer the rock, not build around it.
@Brothgar can you do some work with the idea of the generator rooms and the ability of dupes to increase output of the generators and why you never seem to really use one?
Why not branch the power output from the generator and use 2 power shutoffs, a not gate and a smart battery to determine if power output goes to local battery bank (smart battery) or central.
brothgar mate you are a legend! subbed :)
The transformer could be useful for stepping voltages up into the battery block, maybe.
So what good is a large transformer now? The conductive wire is at 2kw right? So the 4kw from large transformer is going to blow the conductive wire... so the only thing you can feed from a large transformer is heavy watt wire.. which makes it completely obsolete???
Can you add a wire bridge to the power transformer to be able to connect 2 or more set of machinery? Like what we do with gases.
That would be considered as one single circuit even if the only merging point is the transformer's output so overload :/
AC is more like electron vibrations, where DC is direct electron flow
The only way I would compress this type of build is to directly connect the bridges to the transformers on the same tile to reduce decor impact.
I thought Conductive Heavi's had like, 40-200 capacity compared to 20.
Then there's the fact that you can increase efficiency of power generators if you make generator rooms with power control chips.
Question: Could you use the same wattage of wire from high power to low power on a transformer?
Standard conductive wires would be better in terms of transferring power from generator to battery, smaller transformers would be better for powering individual stations, in my opinion.
-Forgot that Sieve's need Sand and produce polluted dirt.-
Labeling the power lines would be nice. Same as water/gas lines. (or seeing whats connected to it)
is the bridge working as fuse tho? just thinking i don't know exactly
the limit on the coal gen affects when the dupes will get the task to refill it with coal.
So is it just not even worth it to build the power control unit and turn each of the rooms in to power plant rooms?
Vaarel that's what sucks about the machine buffs. If they didn't nerf stuff like the fert maker ng generator combo then power generation could be more centralized but because they don't want that power is for the most part rather scattered and ultimately decentralized.
I use the PCU with a centralized power station. A few seperate rooms with a few coal generators in each one, each storing power into batteries from smart batteries just like he was doing in the beginning. I just run power out in 2kw wires to reduce wire clutter around the base. Works extremely well. My base is super cool from running all my power in one location away from my base. Im on cycle 250ish and have 6 coal generators that stand idle most of the time because of the smart batteries feeding my massive battery room. I also use 2 self sustaining electrolyzers in a cold biome that are feeding the hydrogen gas half a map away to my centralized power plant. The excess power from my hydrogen generators help charge my batteries. Havent messed with natural gas yet because I have 45tons of coal still.
@Brothgar in your usual style you're over building. You should never need 2 transformers in series, the second one will always be useless. Think of a transformer as a circuit isolating and limiting 1 way power door.
It looks to me like your overdraw situation at the end was very specifically a bug, probably because the second transformer was isolating the low power wire and the primary transformer from the actual power demand. My suggestion would be to remove the second transformer and see if that solves the issue.
Also you're on the right track when you switched the coal control circuit to an automated power switch, you shouldn't really ever need to run a transformer as a switch, unless you plan to combine the switch and the transformer which he could've done in that scenario too. I can't see a situation where you'd want to switch off the power input to your distribution *substation* you'd probably want the substation getting it's power from the generator while also allowing the generator to feed it's own battery. The substation batteries are really just there to supply overdemand when necessary, ideally they'd only be in places where I have high demand components, or mission critical components, like those that supply the generators. Batteries are important in the early game because you don't want your manual generators always running. After that they're important to not waste resources now that you can control your generators off the battery charge.
What I would do is isolate the generator supply components with a small transformer on a circuit with it's own battery so they don't go down when the generator is offline.
Lastly, you need to think about why everything is there and what it's doing. You need the generator, obviously as the start of your power system. You need the smart battery to tell it when to turn on and off so you aren't wasting supplies, (hydrogen/coal/etc). You want the transformer to keep from using expensive and ugly heavy watt wire everywhere.
I personally haven't found an ideal layout for the heavy watt wire, I tend to have generation on a separate level and that means I'm running heavy watt wire from the generators up to the transformers that are on each demand level, and that's pricy on heavy watt wire. The other option would be to put several transformers on your power level and then send lots of runs out to your various other demand area's which also gets hairy and complex very quickly. So I usually run several residential/commercial demand levels, and next to each level behind mechanical doors I have the transformer, and with that a heavy-watt cable runs up and down an entire side of my base, usually that cable also runs through the power generation room and then back UP the other side of the base to supply the next set of demand levels. It ends up being a heavy cost on wire.
Basically transformers add a huge level of necessary complexity to late game bases, but you're never really prepared for that late game complexity on the scale of your base, so stuff gets ugly very quickly.
One more thing: The only issue I've run into is that I can't cross Heavi-Watt with my tubes. It's only an Issue because I wanted to link my solar power to it but I've since given up on that since I really don't need the solar power. I figure I'll only use it for my space base when there's more of space base lol (like in the coming upgrade). Other than that it works perfectly for my needs.
At the last part. -> You connect wrong output at transformator. See BIG 'bolt' for higer output - small 'bolt' for low output. (and watch out for arrows at transformator) This is reason wyh this not working -> over 1k at wire)
Brothgar... Overall this video was somewhat confusing. What would be helpful is answering...
How to run a machine that draws over 1000 watts using the least amount of Conductive Wire... if that's even possible. If I have two Coal plants (1600w of generation) at different locations in my base, and a machine that draws more than 1000w somewhere else... what is the best way to get that power across the base using the least expensive wire? Is it possible to merge two 1000w lines and somehow combine them into Conductive Wire without overloading the two 1000w wire lines? Can that be done using some combination of Transformers and Batteries?
I think we can easily go from LARGE bank to small lines. Bank(20kw)->Large Transformer(4kw)-> 4 Small Transformers (1kw each). Can we go the other way without overloading 1000w wire... essentially merging 2 1000w lines into a single 2kw line?
I think you can have 2 basic cables linked to two power transformers (small version) both linked to a single conductive circuit
5:16 MY GOD IS TRAVALDO OKAY?!?!?!
Could you release the world at least for the patreons?
doesn't the small one need plastic?..
This might be a bit of a crazy idea but could you run your whole power distribution off one smart battery and connect all of your power plants together with automation wire. Then have different systems kick in when the power drops to certain levels
pete5537808 I suppose you could do that, e.g. by using filter gates for staggering the automation signal to the different generators, although without a way to monitor if the various generator types are supplied with their respective resources, you might run the risk of brown- or blackouts before the gens further down the line would kick in.
Personally, I prefer having peace of mind by taking the negligible surplus power runoff from several smart batteries (one per generator type in use) each set to activate at different charge percentage.
Haxorpenguin I agree that would be more sensible and safer but this isn't the automation challenge. It's the ultimate automation challenge. Lol
Okay... I always thought, power transformer function only in one direction...?
can you put multiple small wires at the out part of the power transiter ?
Yes, it all counts as one circuit though
Next Time Brothgar made da Dude Powert 8bit Cpu
This makes little sense to me.
I mean, I'm not good at the game so there is no surprize.
Why would you want to shut your generator down most of the time (20/21.)
I usual make a service channel throughout my base, which I know is a pain.
But I don't see this to be a solution.
If the trough put between your generator and batteries are only 1KW, then why not just use 1KW wire the whole time?(well, all the way from generators to batteries, then use heavier ones.)
@brothgar , can you please start a new map? I would really like how you see early game, since expressive has reworked stress and decor/morale. All of my dupes are at wits end by cycle 20.
Ah, yes, the Battery Recharge Threshold for coal generators is not the operation of the coal generator itself, but the delivery of materials to be stored and used by the coal generator, when there is coal in the generator, it will function unless an automation wire tells it not to, and as long as the connected batteries' net charge is less than the Battery Recharge Threshold, dupes + conveyor systems will supply the coal generators until full, and when making a base, at least for me, this is REALLY aggravating, as coal and power is being wasted. Brothgar, you may have not noticed this until now because you were just paying more attention to other things.
Whats the best way to get dirt this patch?
get off meal wood fast is how to get dirt
Sieves now turn sand into polluted dirt, you can then compost that into dirt. Since sand is virtually limitless because you can crush anything into sand you can turn any resource you can crush to sand into dirt this way.
Should've named this episode "accidental tutorial"
Just when asked myself : where can I find a pretty nice and clear updated tutorial about power management in ONI... my favorite ONI's youtuber published an all video about it. Did I've premonition or do you read in my mind ?
However, thanks a lot for this one (and for my first comments on your channel : thanks for all your work. It's really amazing how far you push the data analysis to optimize your choice. How you test ideas, theories, concepts, to use every little thing the game give you.)
All my supports to you. Hopes you can go on like this as far as you wish to.
Auto Bots roll out!
I am sorry I had to. 😂
Why do you even try to disable the transformer while charging the battery? There's literally no point to it if you use heavy-watt wire (I'd understand the approach if you used normal wires, because that's possible, but heavy?).
Disabling the transformers also stops the heat generation they give off. Personally I find it negligable because it's only 5w of heat and I use a sort of "maintenance shaft" that's sealed behind abyssalite so the heat really doesn't matter but I can see how some people might want that.
When is multiplayer going to be a thing?
Instant click away from whatever I was doing when I get these notifications.
Gimmmi this on patreon please.
Isn't the fertilizer thingy make natural gas? If yes, why dont try to put gas pump and a gas filter to the room with the fertilizer thingy and then build a gas pipe to the room with natural gas to make some sort of infinite power?
minelerscz once upon a time it was basically infinite power but now that you need dirt to make fertilizer and the ng output is halved it takes more resources to get any sorta yeild and possibly doesn't even net power anymore. I gotta see the math on that though.
Yao Sumlin ok thx for respond
ENGAGING COMMENT!!!111!!!
16 mins... it seems over complicated... lol. loving the experiment!
I think the whole 30min just: why so complicated. Just connect all energy making systems to heavy watt wire and use the transformers and normal wires for the rest... mostly im really impressed by what you build, but u make problem where no is :P
this game breaks the law of entropy in so many ways i cant play it. If they balanced it it would be an awesome simulator i would spend thousands hours ++
Brothgar if you still have a problem with overload you should be able to get around it if you use this contraption at every consumer you could in theory connect every generator on the power in side, without overloading:
prnt.sc/kd0i65
If you want a tutorial regarding the big power transformer, you can read mine - forums.kleientertainment.com/topic/93455-electricity-tutorial/
You can see how you can use the Big power transformer to power up your entire grid by using almost only normal wires.
OK, I just watched the overloading of your normal wire between the 2 small power transformers. It happens because there's a hidden catch - when the small power transformer is charging a battery, it acts as a consumer on the high side with up to 5kW consumption, similarly to the big power transformer. The only difference between the two is when they're supplying consumers - then the small PT is limited to 1kW, whereas the big one can still provide 4kW. But when it comes to charging batteries - they both draw 4-5kW and that's what's frying your wires. ;-)
I like it how your tests/tutorials are structured, but the main game challanges are far from that 😂
One honest question?
What is it?
A pc game or android game?
Sorry for my ignorancy. 😅
First time i saw your videos. So..
well, its oxygen not included. a steam game. its really fun, you should check it out :)
Shabaladingdong thank man im gonna check it out.
4kw transformer is useless. Cos game has no 4kw wire lol.
First