OK, look, I know it's just a game and all. But honestly, I've never found the physics of gasses and gas pressure so intriguing in all my life. Oxygen Not Included has honestly introduced me to cool levels of nerdiness beyond my wildest imaginations.
@@GabrielCazorlaPersson1 i mean duh its a vid game.. its a good thing they dont make it to realistic tho.. at least u dont need a phd to play the game but u can still learn something new
Take it with a grain of salt... It's not real physics... It's honestly just a bunch of bad math that sort-of, sometimes, seems to act like reality. (AKA: "Video-Game Magic", previously known as "Movie Magic". That's like saying "Sim City", gave you insight into politics or city-building... :P) Air-flow, pressure, temps and volumes, work nothing like this, in reality. You will lose a few IQ points if you apply this game-logic to reality. :)
Wheezeworts can bend the space-time continuum to fit impossibly large amounts of hydrogen into a 1m x 1m area. I will never look at one the same way again.
Only if pressure is implemented that it can generate heat in ONI. If they ever do that, I'm going to make some popcorn and see how many asteroids will explode because of high pressure hydrogen systems.
The wheezewort is the point in the venturi effect where the gas is forced through a smaller diameter. When passing by the wheezewort it is accelerating faster allowing it to pull a vacuum from below the ww to above it.
OMG, this is amazing. Three tiles of this kind of compression, and you've got the perfect water/oxygen cooling mechanism forever. Just build it early enough to preempt the absense of Algae for a few dozen cycles. Prepare the standard Hydrolyzer oxygen room, insulated and filling full of coolable hydrogen and your weezewort setup, and in 24 cycles you're looking at such a high-pressure space of cooled air that a mere few tiles of it would cool all the oxygen coming out of the hydrolyzer room enough to keep a space completely comfortable for the dupes. There are so many possibilities here.
@@michellemercy2715 Unfortunately this whole method of gas compression has been pretty much nerfed out of the game. Wheezeworts can no longer be placed in regular flowerpots over airflow tiles, and they now require constant fertilization with phosphorite. You might be able to replicate something similar with planter boxes and delivery rails, but you would be spending phosphorite and power to do it.
I started playing this game because it was a cute sci-fi version of Don't Starve. But now, I am as obsessed with it as I am terrible at it. I've logged 790 hours, and I have never built a plastic ladder. I subbed Brothgar so I can learn about how to fail less. Then when I see Brothgar struggle despite that he is obviously an engineer or something similar, I don't feel so bad. Why is this game so crazy difficult? They gave us an 'easy mode', but that is still crazy hard. At least my dupes don't cry themselves to death anymore. I think the funniest fail, was I was down to one dupe, and she, while stressing, destroyed the last life support machine, and then died in a pool of her own pee. I think my all time best was watching a dupe eat the best food type, and then, act like he thought it was nasty. Maybe the game is so difficult because that is there sense of humor. Suffer and die little dupes... you know cause its funny... I haven't given myself permission to use the sandbox yet, feels like cheating, but I've gotten to the point of where I'd rather watch Brothgar do amazing things in this game rather than play it. Brothgar is the man.
I've think about something: in the ultimate automation challenge, you do something crazy big to store gaz (you will need many gas tanks). BUT it you use this tip to have infinte pressure in some place, you will store more gas in less space and it will me easyer to manage because you will only have 1 tank ! And it will also lower the gas temperature!
Brothgar, move your cooling circuit up one block and over to the right one block, so you can put a vacuum gap around the vent. You'll also need a bit of a precooling method before the cooling loop, try polluted water in pipes or radiant pipes down the center of the entrance tube.
Wheezewort pulls in gas from the bottom half and exhales gas from the top half. By limiting where the gas can come in, and where the gas can come out, wheezewort becomes a power free gas pump. If you block the lower half off from surrounding gas, it can only pull from the space at or under its base.
Wheezeworts suck in air at their bottom tile and pump it out probably at the top tile at a rate of 1 kg/s. Apparently due to the game mechanics the vacuum in the bottom is filled with air from the air flow tile before it comes pushing from above, creating a kind of pumping effect with high differential pressure. That's an astounding and gamechanging effect, though I would expect that to be changed in the future. Thanks for the video!
Hey Brothgar, it’s been quite a while. I know you’ve retired on RUclips to pursue real world goals and a career, I just wanted to drop by a comment and say I hope you’re doing well and have achieved some of your aspirational goals you mentioned in your retirement video. Your videos still get recommended every so often to me and it’s like seeing “memories” from iPhone telling me “hey remember that fun time with your old friend?” All the best ol’ buddy! -Pyro
a long chain of 1 tile wide wheezewhorts vertical from the geyser into a sharp right turn to do what one wants with it. Could have it next to one's stairs as part of the 'bus.'
You need a single intake from the side. Have a 1tile high space in one corner with the vent in betrmtween weezeworts and put another on an airflow tile above the vent. This creates a vaccim that can only be filled from the one tile high empty space) blocked with regular wall tiles.
The steam vent emits gas at 110C which is actually below the threshold where gold amalgam equipment breaks. So technically you should be able to sink the excess heat from the other vents into a steam vent using a constantly circulating loop (don't even need any automation, just a valve set to like 9.9kg/s to prevent it from locking up (use a bridge just before the input to the valve to keep it from over filling with coolant. You can leave the "filling bridge" in place to automatically top up the loop as you expand it.
Should really isolate the hydroden vent from your cooling loop so that your not reheating the hydrogen that has already passed through your Weezeworts.
an interesting thing I have found in my own experiments with weezrworts thanks to this video: (A) a weezewort is 2 tiles high excluding the pot ( common knowledge , but still ) (B) a weezewort moving 1000g/s per second is likely beeing over saturated (C) the bottom tile needs to be a vacuum in order for the weezewort to move gas up (D) an over saturated weezewort can't keep the vacuum on it's bottom tile (E) an over saturated weezewort will still cool the gas it is in. Thought this might be helpful information for better gas cooling ans flow control.
Push the initial hot hydrogen through airflow tiles submerged in a cooling liquid. Then you don't need to worry about the compressing wheezewort overheating.
On each "tick", a few things happen... 1: Air moves (or vibrates), at around 90% left or right, and 10% up or down. {Like a dice-roll, random} Countered only by "volume/pressure" and "specific density", by a TINY factor. There is no real "flowing" in the game. It's random dice rolls, simulating something like "flow". That's why it takes forever for air and pressure to seem to move, when it should be 4000x faster than that, like in reality. You can have 8000Kg directly above a block of 10Kg, for about ten ticks, before it suddenly decides to "swap them", or "remove 10%", to shift that into the other block. (It's spread-sheet cell-shifting.) 2: Air "diffuses", into like cells of material, by about 10%+/-, no matter the temperature. (Unlike reality, where higher pressures would easily diffuse into a lower pressure, with more volume, as an exponent, not a percentage.) 3: Temps move with the percentage of air moved. (Again, unlike reality, where compressing would heat-up elements, as the molecules are now "colliding together faster". 2 units of heat, crammed into 1 unit of space, should be 2x hotter. Thus, if you cool it by one unit, so that 2x volume is 1/2x the heat... If you decompress it back to occupy 2x space, the temps should be 1/2 what it was. Half the heat units should have moved into each location. Which is how a home AC unit works.) Things messing with your designs... 1: You are using a single "flute", which leaves 90% of the motion unable to move, as it wants to move left or right... as well as 10 up or down. Using a double-wide flute, or three wide, will create better "flow". (You started to tap into that reality when you had three vents leading to one wheezewart. But you only needed one vent in the center, on the floor. A space to the left and right, as well as the space that is obviously also above it, free of obstructions. Yes, an "air-flow tile" is still an obstruction.) 2: You only need to "block it in" just above the "pot". Since that will isolate the "pressure-expansion grid", which is actually 3 blocks. The tip of the wheeze-wart, the space above the tip, and the block to the left of the tip, are the three "outlet vents" of the plant. (I assume it's a math-fail, keeping the fourth location on the right of the tip from working correctly. Decimals, what are those... Just round-up to an INT and its all good, until it fails, like it does here.) 3: You can "focus" the output into "one single block", because the game has a neat set of code that checks for "drop space"... If there is a wall to the left and the right, it will try to "drop" the exhausted air, to the left or right of the wall. Like when a fallen item is in a space that you are building a block... It freely jumps-out, into a detected "free space". So, you are stacking 2x into the tip... (The left-tip and the center-tip air.) While the imaginary vent above the tip, is freely dumped into the unrestricted space above the tip. It will take one more "tick", to get the air in the tip, to push up into the space above the tip, if it can. {Depends on the max pressure limits. When reached, all air is counted as a "solid block", with the only place to move, being backwards, into the "vacuum" you created at the base of the wheezewart plant. Leading to a "pump effect failure".} To maintain flow, at that point, you simply have to use a door to eliminate the overpressure. The door along the side, so it opens and allows excess volume to shift into the door-space, so it can get "destroyed", as the door closes, just before you detect overpressure conditions. Otherwise the cycle of flowing will cease and the "pumping" will also stop, as the game slips into an endless loop of moving MAX-PSI from the base, to the top, which is also MAX-PSI, forcing it back into the "draw" part of the plant... Again, a simple command of some forced math would prevent that "infinite lockup", but it doesn't have real complex math here. Just "number-tricks", that work, until they don't.
Since the pressure drop in your venture like design, you could probably chill the gas at the point with the lowest pressure faster then cooling the whole environment. A bit like the pipe in a climatisation unit Edit: you kinda did it with the second design, but I was thinking with a radiant pipe in the middle to chill the gas.
Need to try using the single tile shaft method to introduce the hydrogen to a 3x4 room with a second wheezewort. should get the compacting effect AND cool it down to -60, should make an insane heat sink
i did some testing on this with the gas element sensor setup to sort gases, occasionally youll get some mixed gases which will stun the storage. once it reaches about 4k. the way to get this to work you MUST NOT have any thing inbetween the vent and the airflow tile, that includes ladders or material on the vent. it stops the gases from funneling up the venturi. no clue why but it was a weird finding. this would be a very good system for storing early Carbon Dioxide and Chlorine, you can build a gas vent on top of the system perfectly fine however, i believe if you could make a perfect gas loop to keep recycling the gas element sensor setup from the fart dupe video works well unless you have an over-pressurized area you want to clear, you could make a venturi storage system that also works as an oxygen cooling system by recycling all the oxygen and uses doors on your next weezewort chain, to block the gas flow, you could make a system that acts as a gas filter, storage AND air conditioner for LESS THEN 325 W. 240 for a gas pump, 10 for each gas element, and a gas element sensor (25w) so the pump doesnt pump on oxygen once your base is cooled and purified. I think weezeworts might need a rework after this finding.
after doing more tests this morning, ive found that for storing gases it works best to build the pump to the left, of the venturi. but the major issue seems to be the pure randomness of it. if i had to assume if the venturi cools the gas faster than its pumped the coool temp will drop and the venturi will stop working. that would explain why the the ladders and objects would draw heat and cool the vent would make this system fail by insistent temperatures. for that reason although an amazing find, the inconsistency makes this too unreliable for a me.
Why not insulate the wall between your cool loop and the vent area? It seems to create more problems than it solves. If you are that worried, then you might try to do a metal tile further down the line, like before it reaches the first weezewort in case you are worried of overheating the first one.
I think a simpler way to do it is just to do upward flow with wheezeworts and downward flow with a pipe and a pump. Or if you *really* have an excess of wheezeworts, don't recycle at all, and just have a daisy chain of wheezeworts so long that all the gas at the top is already cool enough for your needs. The only thing that bothers me is that to imitate that vertical system you had, you need to avoid backflow from the pressurized area. I'm not sure whether the lack of backflow there would still occur if the space at the top were 2x2 instead of 1x1.
OK so why not use insulated tiles around the vent to keep the H from warming back up? That way the only hot part is the H going past the 1st weezewort.
I was thinking the same. Try it with abyssalite tiles and see what happens. It looks like it's picking up extra heat from the h2 around the vent, preventing it from cooling as efficiently as possible. May be wrong, but worth a shot.
Now, my only ONI experience is via your content, Brothgar, so if this is a dumb Idea I apologise. But, here it is: Can a self-powered electrolyser set-up produce enough surplus hydrogen to power a thermal nulifier to cool down a steam vent? In other words, in your three-chamber experiment, can you replace the hydrogen vent for a self-powering electrolyser?
It should be able to. a SPOM uses less than 800W of power, a H2 generator needs 100g/s to generate that kind of wattage, and an electrolyser produces 112 g/s or something like that in hydrogen, so you should have more than 10g/s of hydrogen available ( due to the LESS than 800W requirement, the generator will use less than 100g/s, thus giving you a good margin ). This can then be fed into an AETN for cooling, fill up a pipe with hydrogen, using bridges and such to make it a continuous cycling loop, and you can cool down the H2 in the AETN room, and use the cold hydrogen to cool down the steam vent.
I have found a bug where you can store unlimet amount of gase in an tile all you need is build a vent on the bottom of your storage at least two tiles away from any wall than put some fluid in the room and build mesh blocks left and right of the vent so that basically a little amount of water is at the vent Then you can pump unlimited amounts of gas in the room I can post some screenshots if you like
Try moving the wheezewort you have selected at 27:07 down one block, so it has room on the top to stockpile gas, and is not forced to jam it out towards the size?
why dont you use a second wheezewort to further cool the super compressor setup on the right. i dont see why it would break the compression ability and it would cool it further
Surely you'd want Abyssalite tiles on the top and right sides of the Hydrogen Vent in that final set up so it isn't heating up the gas you want to cool, right?
how about using that geyser that gives you poluted water at -12c(or something) to precool the hydrogen? or you are trying something that doesnt use any power to cool it?
I used a system to cool water from steam vents using carbon dioxide, when you use carbon skimmer it drops the water temperature to 40 degrees whatever the water or the carbon dioxide temperatures are, then to the water sieve then to a room for the thermo aquatuner, two of them are enough to make the water temperature 12 degrees. you will have to cool them down, so i use the thermo nullifier. the only problem now is that there is no enough carbon dioxide lol, I'm trying to figure out a way to harvest it
That work with the alga co2 to o2 things? Might be a good way to push oxygen to the top of a base and pull co2 out of it and move it without motors? 1 wart at the top of a shaft and an the alga thing or 20 at the bottom?
no, Wheezes don't cool gasses below their condensation point, and they don't work below -70 or something while for liquid hydrogen you need over -200°C so it's a double no
@@666Tomato666 he might be talking about the critical point. Besides heat deletion, the plants is also pressurizing the gas. Enough pressure should be able to force the gas to condense and then freeze at whatever temperature. Just use the density to find moles, plug into PV=nRT and match the pressure to the phase change graph of H2.
@@666Tomato666 huh, didnt know that. For some reason I expected the game to follow ideal gas behavior fairly consistently. Then again, adjusting boiling points for each generated planets atmosphere cant have much purpose
Brothgar can you stack 2 wheezewart side by side and compress twice as much gas twice as fast? And then add a pressure release valve with a door and a pressure sensor? That way you can remove gas from your system and into a gas pump room to use elsewhere around your base.
Hey Brothgar, can you test super compression of gasses with a Weezewort? I am finding some odd results. CO2 for instance will break after about 40kg of pressure. The pressure reverses past the Weezewort and then no longer returns to correct flow directions unless you induce low pressure above the weezewort again. I thought i found a very cheesy way using a weezewort to supercompress the CO2 in an early base using an auto door hooked to a Gas sensor set to co2 at the bottom levels of my base. Worked amazing until the back pressure issue.
What about a condenser weezwort room just big enough for 2 weezworts and some hydrogen and made of metal. The metal will probably heat up super fast tho.
Isn't it better if you place the wheezeworts at the upper left corner of the hydrogen gas vent to aid air flow? (as we do know that hydrogen likes to stay at the upper left corner of a room.)
I have a question. Can we make ozone in this game? I mean not only that compound but a lot other that should be a thing like Ammonia to remove some radiation,or some short of pizza related food some by products of processing metals or even a future Dyson sphere reactors or Hydrogen fusion like the one from the movie passengers
I have tried this same trick with natural gas and chlorine in my own gameplay. It doesn't work for long. At some point the gasses go past the wheezewort and egualise pressure in the whole tube. In my own gameplay has this problem, but when I replicate it in another save the tube works perfectly
Hmm, very nice Designs! But I´m still wondering why you use granite and not sth like abyssalite, because: - The worts themself don´t realy cool their Body, just the air, so if you connect their Body to sth heat transfering they will just heat up using their startup body temp. and not their cooling effect. - The granite is a huge heatsink, so it can cool down lots of stuff just by starting at a lower temp, so it will influence your Experiment and it will react very very slowly, so you cant realy see if sth happens shortterm
Imagine not having to pump hydrogen all across your base to the right ruin structure. You should show how you would go about sending hazardously hot resources through a duplicant inhabited area.
Wait, what about three worts and one long tube? Then you can probably process even more gas at 23.5C. Did you forget that you also need to train a dupe to Miner Level 2 to mine abyssalite, and Miner Level 1 to mine granite, which also requires the job board? Instead of a venturi, I'm just thinking of a funnel. You'd have three gas vents, then compress it down to a one tile space, then you'd have airflow tiles and three worts on top of that one-tile compress, and it'll probably still work...
I was thinking the same, and it would also make the bubble of gas pumpable to cool base and/or make energy. With two setups like this you might even power continuously and automatically, by alterning between the gas compression silos
Isn't there a "cheat" where you put a gas vent in a very small room with 2 gasses, one is you are putting in a room and the other is "filter" gas you force over the vent? By game mechanics, only one gas can be in one block at the time, you put a let's say hydrogen in room but there is a small amount of oxygen on vent block, so hydrogen gets pushed on nearest "free" block. (didn't play for some time, so i do not know is this still working)
lifegrow did that with oils and water. you fill a room to a certain point then have a 1 block liquid vent, put a drop of oil if youre storing water, and vise vera. then kept pumping to that one tile the oil was on and it super compressed.
Uh didn't know that it'll crush it from existence, i never pushed it that far. Need to try this method with liquid. (Also from brothgars video, wheezewort method looks nice)
Damn... So is there an efficient way to use disposable liquids and gasses to dump heat straight into space? Or use phase changes to make a heat pipe? I want to experiment for myself, but I don't have a clue on how to use the debug tools.
@@BrokenLifeCycle heat pipes can be done, but it is a tremendous effort to dig out a space for one. People usually use polluted water or some other excess liquid/gas to dump heat into space, although generally oil and petroleum have the best thermal mass
What about steam turbines? It seems to delete heat but only at a very high temperature. Is there a way to feasibly pump heat from around a base and concentrate it under a turbine?
I don't understand why you feel that keeping the circulation is so important. if you want to equalize and mix termperature differences in a mass of gas then why not just use thermal shift plates? That is what they were designed for - and they will do it much more effectively. In fact I don't know of any other method in the game that works nearly as fast - not even directly mixing high-condictivity fluids directly... Last I checked (admittedly a while ago) you could even make them out of various "junk" materials so except for construction time they are essentially free - and outside of very specialized compact high-performance systems the materials don't even tend to matter that much. The only "problem" with using lots of thermal shift plates is that you add a lot of thermal mass. That wouldn't matter at all in a repeating system except that it would make it cycle slower and have a larger initial prep-time, but the former is often a good thing. Can you tell I'm a fan of thermal shift plates yet? :)
KISS, The idea was to test if it was possible to create a hyper elegant, small loop. The loop was a test of a scientific flow principle. Its like E=mc^2, hundreds of convoluted formula simplified into its simplest form.
The other issue is getting the shift plates heat soaked... Which, admittedly, is mostly because I don't know how to use them effectively. But this cools the system rather than transfer the heat (i.e. MAGIC!)
Isnt hydrogen supposed to spread out in a vaccum? like other gases? I dont know the science about it but having a chamber split up by hydrogen and vaccuum sounds.... not scientifically correct? :D or am i wrong? EDIT: thought the gas pressure would be the same everywhere if its the same gas
It’s a core game mechanic, they just used it in a wheezewort, they can change the wheezewort but the mechanic is still there and there are other ways to “exploit” it
why not stick to the original ventury design ? make a wide base with the hydrogen geyser and calibrate the length and gradiant of the vent (a long vertical funnel, not the device) above to let not overpressure. above the chanel, put your magic withwords on flow tile. make a room with the pump above it. do not recycle it to cool the geyser, as long of the plant can put it below 100 in one go it is good enough.
If you're just trying to get hydrogen into pipes you don't have to cool it at all. On the forum I showed a system to exploits the difference between detection range and pumping range of pumps to make a miniature gas pump able to pump gases up to at least 1000C without any problems. Here: forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95870-sour-gas-refinement-v20-2kgs-natural-gas/?tab=comments#comment-1087618
And before you say a miniature pump is not enough with just 50g/s throughput. Check your superactive high output hydrogen vent. It actually only puts out 39.4g/s average so one miniature pump is even overkill.
OK, look, I know it's just a game and all. But honestly, I've never found the physics of gasses and gas pressure so intriguing in all my life. Oxygen Not Included has honestly introduced me to cool levels of nerdiness beyond my wildest imaginations.
Me too dude,it's quite amazing when you play it for the first time.
The game is doing what ksp does.
Making learning awesome.
@@GabrielCazorlaPersson1 i mean duh its a vid game.. its a good thing they dont make it to realistic tho.. at least u dont need a phd to play the game but u can still learn something new
Take it with a grain of salt... It's not real physics... It's honestly just a bunch of bad math that sort-of, sometimes, seems to act like reality. (AKA: "Video-Game Magic", previously known as "Movie Magic". That's like saying "Sim City", gave you insight into politics or city-building... :P) Air-flow, pressure, temps and volumes, work nothing like this, in reality. You will lose a few IQ points if you apply this game-logic to reality. :)
@@JD_Mortal lol, it just sparked my interest in the real thing. I am fully aware that ONI physics are not faithful to real physics.
Wheezeworts can bend the space-time continuum to fit impossibly large amounts of hydrogen into a 1m x 1m area. I will never look at one the same way again.
I wonder if Weezeworts can compress enough hydrogen into one space as to cause solar ignition?
Only if pressure is implemented that it can generate heat in ONI. If they ever do that, I'm going to make some popcorn and see how many asteroids will explode because of high pressure hydrogen systems.
It would be one hell of a way to close out a base in ONI.
Did you know that wheezeworts are canonically animals?
The wheezewort is the point in the venturi effect where the gas is forced through a smaller diameter. When passing by the wheezewort it is accelerating faster allowing it to pull a vacuum from below the ww to above it.
OMG, this is amazing. Three tiles of this kind of compression, and you've got the perfect water/oxygen cooling mechanism forever. Just build it early enough to preempt the absense of Algae for a few dozen cycles. Prepare the standard Hydrolyzer oxygen room, insulated and filling full of coolable hydrogen and your weezewort setup, and in 24 cycles you're looking at such a high-pressure space of cooled air that a mere few tiles of it would cool all the oxygen coming out of the hydrolyzer room enough to keep a space completely comfortable for the dupes. There are so many possibilities here.
Can you show your blueprint?
@@michellemercy2715 Unfortunately this whole method of gas compression has been pretty much nerfed out of the game. Wheezeworts can no longer be placed in regular flowerpots over airflow tiles, and they now require constant fertilization with phosphorite. You might be able to replicate something similar with planter boxes and delivery rails, but you would be spending phosphorite and power to do it.
I started playing this game because it was a cute sci-fi version of Don't Starve. But now, I am as obsessed with it as I am terrible at it. I've logged 790 hours, and I have never built a plastic ladder. I subbed Brothgar so I can learn about how to fail less. Then when I see Brothgar struggle despite that he is obviously an engineer or something similar, I don't feel so bad. Why is this game so crazy difficult? They gave us an 'easy mode', but that is still crazy hard. At least my dupes don't cry themselves to death anymore. I think the funniest fail, was I was down to one dupe, and she, while stressing, destroyed the last life support machine, and then died in a pool of her own pee. I think my all time best was watching a dupe eat the best food type, and then, act like he thought it was nasty. Maybe the game is so difficult because that is there sense of humor. Suffer and die little dupes... you know cause its funny... I haven't given myself permission to use the sandbox yet, feels like cheating, but I've gotten to the point of where I'd rather watch Brothgar do amazing things in this game rather than play it. Brothgar is the man.
It's good that you have honor in your games.
Has 790 hours but doesn't even use sandbox
Didn't pop the supercondensed square and let it flow out in pretty wavy colors ☹
I've think about something: in the ultimate automation challenge, you do something crazy big to store gaz (you will need many gas tanks).
BUT it you use this tip to have infinte pressure in some place, you will store more gas in less space and it will me easyer to manage because you will only have 1 tank !
And it will also lower the gas temperature!
I'm really feeling your excitement, my dude! Your excitement is Beautiful!
Brothgar, move your cooling circuit up one block and over to the right one block, so you can put a vacuum gap around the vent. You'll also need a bit of a precooling method before the cooling loop, try polluted water in pipes or radiant pipes down the center of the entrance tube.
"I guess you're wondering what a venturi is" - no that's the reason I clicked the video ;)
i'm hoping to use oni to make my rocket mass heater burn even better, lol.
Man. Sheer genius. I ran this up the side of a planet and actually created a vacuum at the bottom
Wheezewort pulls in gas from the bottom half and exhales gas from the top half. By limiting where the gas can come in, and where the gas can come out, wheezewort becomes a power free gas pump.
If you block the lower half off from surrounding gas, it can only pull from the space at or under its base.
Wheezeworts suck in air at their bottom tile and pump it out probably at the top tile at a rate of 1 kg/s. Apparently due to the game mechanics the vacuum in the bottom is filled with air from the air flow tile before it comes pushing from above, creating a kind of pumping effect with high differential pressure. That's an astounding and gamechanging effect, though I would expect that to be changed in the future.
Thanks for the video!
Hey Brothgar, it’s been quite a while. I know you’ve retired on RUclips to pursue real world goals and a career, I just wanted to drop by a comment and say I hope you’re doing well and have achieved some of your aspirational goals you mentioned in your retirement video. Your videos still get recommended every so often to me and it’s like seeing “memories” from iPhone telling me “hey remember that fun time with your old friend?”
All the best ol’ buddy!
-Pyro
a long chain of 1 tile wide wheezewhorts vertical from the geyser into a sharp right turn to do what one wants with it. Could have it next to one's stairs as part of the 'bus.'
You need a single intake from the side. Have a 1tile high space in one corner with the vent in betrmtween weezeworts and put another on an airflow tile above the vent. This creates a vaccim that can only be filled from the one tile high empty space) blocked with regular wall tiles.
The steam vent emits gas at 110C which is actually below the threshold where gold amalgam equipment breaks. So technically you should be able to sink the excess heat from the other vents into a steam vent using a constantly circulating loop (don't even need any automation, just a valve set to like 9.9kg/s to prevent it from locking up (use a bridge just before the input to the valve to keep it from over filling with coolant. You can leave the "filling bridge" in place to automatically top up the loop as you expand it.
Should really isolate the hydroden vent from your cooling loop so that your not reheating the hydrogen that has already passed through your Weezeworts.
Wow this is incredible thank you!
an interesting thing I have found in my own experiments with weezrworts thanks to this video:
(A) a weezewort is 2 tiles high excluding the pot ( common knowledge , but still )
(B) a weezewort moving 1000g/s per second is likely beeing over saturated
(C) the bottom tile needs to be a vacuum in order for the weezewort to move gas up
(D) an over saturated weezewort can't keep the vacuum on it's bottom tile
(E) an over saturated weezewort will still cool the gas it is in.
Thought this might be helpful information for better gas cooling ans flow control.
as an added thought the longer the chimney before the first weezewort the higher the pressure can become before the weezewort will be over pressured
Damn the box with three worts is beautiful
Push the initial hot hydrogen through airflow tiles submerged in a cooling liquid. Then you don't need to worry about the compressing wheezewort overheating.
The liquid would stop the airflow.
@@heerhenker7497 Liquids don't penetrate airflow tiles.
@@thesentientneuron6550 ohh you mean sideways? That would work.
Maybe Revisit with nerfed weezewortd in play now???
On each "tick", a few things happen...
1: Air moves (or vibrates), at around 90% left or right, and 10% up or down. {Like a dice-roll, random} Countered only by "volume/pressure" and "specific density", by a TINY factor. There is no real "flowing" in the game. It's random dice rolls, simulating something like "flow". That's why it takes forever for air and pressure to seem to move, when it should be 4000x faster than that, like in reality. You can have 8000Kg directly above a block of 10Kg, for about ten ticks, before it suddenly decides to "swap them", or "remove 10%", to shift that into the other block. (It's spread-sheet cell-shifting.)
2: Air "diffuses", into like cells of material, by about 10%+/-, no matter the temperature. (Unlike reality, where higher pressures would easily diffuse into a lower pressure, with more volume, as an exponent, not a percentage.)
3: Temps move with the percentage of air moved. (Again, unlike reality, where compressing would heat-up elements, as the molecules are now "colliding together faster". 2 units of heat, crammed into 1 unit of space, should be 2x hotter. Thus, if you cool it by one unit, so that 2x volume is 1/2x the heat... If you decompress it back to occupy 2x space, the temps should be 1/2 what it was. Half the heat units should have moved into each location. Which is how a home AC unit works.)
Things messing with your designs...
1: You are using a single "flute", which leaves 90% of the motion unable to move, as it wants to move left or right... as well as 10 up or down. Using a double-wide flute, or three wide, will create better "flow". (You started to tap into that reality when you had three vents leading to one wheezewart. But you only needed one vent in the center, on the floor. A space to the left and right, as well as the space that is obviously also above it, free of obstructions. Yes, an "air-flow tile" is still an obstruction.)
2: You only need to "block it in" just above the "pot". Since that will isolate the "pressure-expansion grid", which is actually 3 blocks. The tip of the wheeze-wart, the space above the tip, and the block to the left of the tip, are the three "outlet vents" of the plant. (I assume it's a math-fail, keeping the fourth location on the right of the tip from working correctly. Decimals, what are those... Just round-up to an INT and its all good, until it fails, like it does here.)
3: You can "focus" the output into "one single block", because the game has a neat set of code that checks for "drop space"... If there is a wall to the left and the right, it will try to "drop" the exhausted air, to the left or right of the wall. Like when a fallen item is in a space that you are building a block... It freely jumps-out, into a detected "free space". So, you are stacking 2x into the tip... (The left-tip and the center-tip air.) While the imaginary vent above the tip, is freely dumped into the unrestricted space above the tip. It will take one more "tick", to get the air in the tip, to push up into the space above the tip, if it can. {Depends on the max pressure limits. When reached, all air is counted as a "solid block", with the only place to move, being backwards, into the "vacuum" you created at the base of the wheezewart plant. Leading to a "pump effect failure".}
To maintain flow, at that point, you simply have to use a door to eliminate the overpressure. The door along the side, so it opens and allows excess volume to shift into the door-space, so it can get "destroyed", as the door closes, just before you detect overpressure conditions. Otherwise the cycle of flowing will cease and the "pumping" will also stop, as the game slips into an endless loop of moving MAX-PSI from the base, to the top, which is also MAX-PSI, forcing it back into the "draw" part of the plant... Again, a simple command of some forced math would prevent that "infinite lockup", but it doesn't have real complex math here. Just "number-tricks", that work, until they don't.
Oho. I saw myself. The wheezewort compression just on its own is super nice. Totally beats out the liquid hacks stuff.
I did say a hydrogen compressor, for got you cant get it normally but its nice to see you found out about it
Engineering and ONI in a single video. 10/10
new brothgar video YAYAYAYAYAY
Since the pressure drop in your venture like design, you could probably chill the gas at the point with the lowest pressure faster then cooling the whole environment. A bit like the pipe in a climatisation unit
Edit: you kinda did it with the second design, but I was thinking with a radiant pipe in the middle to chill the gas.
Need to try using the single tile shaft method to introduce the hydrogen to a 3x4 room with a second wheezewort. should get the compacting effect AND cool it down to -60, should make an insane heat sink
i did some testing on this with the gas element sensor setup to sort gases, occasionally youll get some mixed gases which will stun the storage. once it reaches about 4k.
the way to get this to work you MUST NOT have any thing inbetween the vent and the airflow tile, that includes ladders or material on the vent. it stops the gases from funneling up the venturi. no clue why but it was a weird finding. this would be a very good system for storing early Carbon Dioxide and Chlorine, you can build a gas vent on top of the system perfectly fine however, i believe if you could make a perfect gas loop to keep recycling the gas element sensor setup from the fart dupe video works well unless you have an over-pressurized area you want to clear, you could make a venturi storage system that also works as an oxygen cooling system by recycling all the oxygen and uses doors on your next weezewort chain, to block the gas flow, you could make a system that acts as a gas filter, storage AND air conditioner for LESS THEN 325 W.
240 for a gas pump, 10 for each gas element, and a gas element sensor (25w) so the pump doesnt pump on oxygen once your base is cooled and purified.
I think weezeworts might need a rework after this finding.
after doing more tests this morning, ive found that for storing gases it works best to build the pump to the left, of the venturi.
but the major issue seems to be the pure randomness of it. if i had to assume if the venturi cools the gas faster than its pumped the coool temp will drop and the venturi will stop working. that would explain why the the ladders and objects would draw heat and cool the vent would make this system fail by insistent temperatures. for that reason although an amazing find, the inconsistency makes this too unreliable for a me.
This video is helping my husband a lot
I think you had the answer already. Combine the bottom right design at 5:32 with your long straight vent tunnel.
Why not insulate the wall between your cool loop and the vent area? It seems to create more problems than it solves. If you are that worried, then you might try to do a metal tile further down the line, like before it reaches the first weezewort in case you are worried of overheating the first one.
I think a simpler way to do it is just to do upward flow with wheezeworts and downward flow with a pipe and a pump. Or if you *really* have an excess of wheezeworts, don't recycle at all, and just have a daisy chain of wheezeworts so long that all the gas at the top is already cool enough for your needs.
The only thing that bothers me is that to imitate that vertical system you had, you need to avoid backflow from the pressurized area. I'm not sure whether the lack of backflow there would still occur if the space at the top were 2x2 instead of 1x1.
I like how much time he invest to read the comments ^^
Awesome.
OK so why not use insulated tiles around the vent to keep the H from warming back up? That way the only hot part is the H going past the 1st weezewort.
I was thinking the same. Try it with abyssalite tiles and see what happens. It looks like it's picking up extra heat from the h2 around the vent, preventing it from cooling as efficiently as possible. May be wrong, but worth a shot.
"that's not smoke it's steam, steam from the cool steam geyser we're having, mmm, cool steam geyser..."
17:57 when you go so big you temporarily become tim taylor
Now, my only ONI experience is via your content, Brothgar, so if this is a dumb Idea I apologise.
But, here it is: Can a self-powered electrolyser set-up produce enough surplus hydrogen to power a thermal nulifier to cool down a steam vent?
In other words, in your three-chamber experiment, can you replace the hydrogen vent for a self-powering electrolyser?
It should be able to. a SPOM uses less than 800W of power, a H2 generator needs 100g/s to generate that kind of wattage, and an electrolyser produces 112 g/s or something like that in hydrogen, so you should have more than 10g/s of hydrogen available ( due to the LESS than 800W requirement, the generator will use less than 100g/s, thus giving you a good margin ).
This can then be fed into an AETN for cooling, fill up a pipe with hydrogen, using bridges and such to make it a continuous cycling loop, and you can cool down the H2 in the AETN room, and use the cold hydrogen to cool down the steam vent.
I have found a bug where you can store unlimet amount of gase in an tile all you need is build a vent on the bottom of your storage at least two tiles away from any wall than put some fluid in the room and build mesh blocks left and right of the vent so that basically a little amount of water is at the vent
Then you can pump unlimited amounts of gas in the room
I can post some screenshots if you like
Try moving the wheezewort you have selected at 27:07 down one block, so it has room on the top to stockpile gas, and is not forced to jam it out towards the size?
why dont you use a second wheezewort to further cool the super compressor setup on the right. i dont see why it would break the compression ability and it would cool it further
Me : Game doesn't really have real physics at all.
ONI : *Hold my beer*
So basicaly you build a super gas storage for all unwanted gasses :D
Surely you'd want Abyssalite tiles on the top and right sides of the Hydrogen Vent in that final set up so it isn't heating up the gas you want to cool, right?
Ah, I hadn't considered that.
how about using that geyser that gives you poluted water at -12c(or something) to precool the hydrogen? or you are trying something that doesnt use any power to cool it?
I used a system to cool water from steam vents using carbon dioxide, when you use carbon skimmer it drops the water temperature to 40 degrees whatever the water or the carbon dioxide temperatures are, then to the water sieve then to a room for the thermo aquatuner, two of them are enough to make the water temperature 12 degrees. you will have to cool them down, so i use the thermo nullifier. the only problem now is that there is no enough carbon dioxide lol, I'm trying to figure out a way to harvest it
To get more carbon use coal generators
Do you think that the new gas and liquid storage tanks can be used to cool the gas and liquid in batches?
Break the block! Uppercut a play-doh can and unleash the powerful pent up frustration of 1600 kg of hydrogen couped up in one room.
That work with the alga co2 to o2 things? Might be a good way to push oxygen to the top of a base and pull co2 out of it and move it without motors? 1 wart at the top of a shaft and an the alga thing or 20 at the bottom?
Will the hydrogen turn metallic if you let it run long enough?
no, Wheezes don't cool gasses below their condensation point, and they don't work below -70 or something while for liquid hydrogen you need over -200°C so it's a double no
@@666Tomato666 he might be talking about the critical point. Besides heat deletion, the plants is also pressurizing the gas. Enough pressure should be able to force the gas to condense and then freeze at whatever temperature. Just use the density to find moles, plug into PV=nRT and match the pressure to the phase change graph of H2.
@@Septicemic-Fugue in reality, yes, but we're talking ONI, and condensation based on pressure is not something that happens in ONI
@@666Tomato666 huh, didnt know that. For some reason I expected the game to follow ideal gas behavior fairly consistently. Then again, adjusting boiling points for each generated planets atmosphere cant have much purpose
Brothgar can you stack 2 wheezewart side by side and compress twice as much gas twice as fast? And then add a pressure release valve with a door and a pressure sensor? That way you can remove gas from your system and into a gas pump room to use elsewhere around your base.
Question: would this hyperpresuring system work to presurize steam (to use the steam generator)? Or that would be too hot for a Wheezewort?
since wheezeworts can compress the gas to those high pressures, can you use that to make a "tank" that holds one type of gas and a pump?
Hey Brothgar, can you test super compression of gasses with a Weezewort? I am finding some odd results. CO2 for instance will break after about 40kg of pressure. The pressure reverses past the Weezewort and then no longer returns to correct flow directions unless you induce low pressure above the weezewort again.
I thought i found a very cheesy way using a weezewort to supercompress the CO2 in an early base using an auto door hooked to a Gas sensor set to co2 at the bottom levels of my base. Worked amazing until the back pressure issue.
What about a condenser weezwort room just big enough for 2 weezworts and some hydrogen and made of metal. The metal will probably heat up super fast tho.
maybe you could set it to automate doors around it to pull vacuum so it can cool down and then switch on to condense.
Using a door on the wezzwort. you could have a ton of cooled gas, and would the expansion of the gas reduce the temperature more.
Isn't it better if you place the wheezeworts at the upper left corner of the hydrogen gas vent to aid air flow? (as we do know that hydrogen likes to stay at the upper left corner of a room.)
I have a question. Can we make ozone in this game? I mean not only that compound but a lot other that should be a thing like Ammonia to remove some radiation,or some short of pizza related food some by products of processing metals or even a future Dyson sphere reactors or Hydrogen fusion like the one from the movie passengers
Hi Brothgar, is there a way to compress denser gases like carbon dioxyde the same way you just did? (Without power waste)
I have tried this same trick with natural gas and chlorine in my own gameplay. It doesn't work for long. At some point the gasses go past the wheezewort and egualise pressure in the whole tube. In my own gameplay has this problem, but when I replicate it in another save the tube works perfectly
This is AWERSOME!
Seems like they 'fixed' it by removing plant pots as place for weezeworts.
Hmm, very nice Designs! But I´m still wondering why you use granite and not sth like abyssalite, because:
- The worts themself don´t realy cool their Body, just the air, so if you connect their Body to sth heat transfering they will just heat up using their startup body temp. and not their cooling effect.
- The granite is a huge heatsink, so it can cool down lots of stuff just by starting at a lower temp, so it will influence your Experiment and it will react very very slowly, so you cant realy see if sth happens shortterm
The game needs a gas inlet, so you can use this or door compressors to pressurize a tank with no energy.
What is the best way to cool down steam geyser? I have 3 of them around my base and it is pretty hot! (like in the hell)
That's epic.
Update from the next patch: Wheezeworts stop outputting if pressure greater than 5kg.
Imagine not having to pump hydrogen all across your base to the right ruin structure.
You should show how you would go about sending hazardously hot resources through a duplicant inhabited area.
Ok brothgar your two top rooms are one block taller
Wait, what about three worts and one long tube? Then you can probably process even more gas at 23.5C.
Did you forget that you also need to train a dupe to Miner Level 2 to mine abyssalite, and Miner Level 1 to mine granite, which also requires the job board?
Instead of a venturi, I'm just thinking of a funnel. You'd have three gas vents, then compress it down to a one tile space, then you'd have airflow tiles and three worts on top of that one-tile compress, and it'll probably still work...
I was thinking the same, and it would also make the bubble of gas pumpable to cool base and/or make energy.
With two setups like this you might even power continuously and automatically, by alterning between the gas compression silos
Is it still working? I think not.
I'm trying to replicate it now and I think it's working but too slowly to keep up with the vent. Can you confirm that it's working?
Isn't there a "cheat" where you put a gas vent in a very small room with 2 gasses, one is you are putting in a room and the other is "filter" gas you force over the vent?
By game mechanics, only one gas can be in one block at the time, you put a let's say hydrogen in room but there is a small amount of oxygen on vent block, so hydrogen gets pushed on nearest "free" block. (didn't play for some time, so i do not know is this still working)
lifegrow did that with oils and water.
you fill a room to a certain point then have a 1 block liquid vent, put a drop of oil if youre storing water, and vise vera.
then kept pumping to that one tile the oil was on and it super compressed.
with liquids i dont know, but gases get to a point where the pressure of the desired gas crushes the cover gas out of existence
Uh didn't know that it'll crush it from existence, i never pushed it that far. Need to try this method with liquid. (Also from brothgars video, wheezewort method looks nice)
@@joshuaslattery2416 careful with that. Lifegrow said himself that if you let it get to around a billion kg per tile that your game will crash.
Can you do this with Liquid?
Does the game simulate black body radiation? Or is it all direct conduction? I was thinking if it was possible to make a radiator or something.
Conduction and convection only.
Damn... So is there an efficient way to use disposable liquids and gasses to dump heat straight into space? Or use phase changes to make a heat pipe? I want to experiment for myself, but I don't have a clue on how to use the debug tools.
@@BrokenLifeCycle heat pipes can be done, but it is a tremendous effort to dig out a space for one. People usually use polluted water or some other excess liquid/gas to dump heat into space, although generally oil and petroleum have the best thermal mass
What about steam turbines? It seems to delete heat but only at a very high temperature. Is there a way to feasibly pump heat from around a base and concentrate it under a turbine?
@@BrokenLifeCycle bases don't produce enough heat to sustainably run even a single turbine
The pressure in my pants just keeps increasing !
I don't understand why you feel that keeping the circulation is so important. if you want to equalize and mix termperature differences in a mass of gas then why not just use thermal shift plates? That is what they were designed for - and they will do it much more effectively. In fact I don't know of any other method in the game that works nearly as fast - not even directly mixing high-condictivity fluids directly...
Last I checked (admittedly a while ago) you could even make them out of various "junk" materials so except for construction time they are essentially free - and outside of very specialized compact high-performance systems the materials don't even tend to matter that much.
The only "problem" with using lots of thermal shift plates is that you add a lot of thermal mass. That wouldn't matter at all in a repeating system except that it would make it cycle slower and have a larger initial prep-time, but the former is often a good thing.
Can you tell I'm a fan of thermal shift plates yet? :)
KISS, The idea was to test if it was possible to create a hyper elegant, small loop.
The loop was a test of a scientific flow principle.
Its like E=mc^2, hundreds of convoluted formula simplified into its simplest form.
It's an attempt to use the vents in the early game with as little tech as possible.
The other issue is getting the shift plates heat soaked... Which, admittedly, is mostly because I don't know how to use them effectively. But this cools the system rather than transfer the heat (i.e. MAGIC!)
Isnt hydrogen supposed to spread out in a vaccum? like other gases? I dont know the science about it but having a chamber split up by hydrogen and vaccuum sounds.... not scientifically correct? :D or am i wrong? EDIT: thought the gas pressure would be the same everywhere if its the same gas
Sad part is not far off this will be patched as almost all of the game "mechanics" Bothgar finds.
It’s a core game mechanic, they just used it in a wheezewort, they can change the wheezewort but the mechanic is still there and there are other ways to “exploit” it
Ace Venturi?
Neat!
why not stick to the original ventury design ? make a wide base with the hydrogen geyser and calibrate the length and gradiant of the vent (a long vertical funnel, not the device) above to let not overpressure. above the chanel, put your magic withwords on flow tile. make a room with the pump above it. do not recycle it to cool the geyser, as long of the plant can put it below 100 in one go it is good enough.
Why not don’t just use abyssalite because you need to mine it anyways to access the wheezewort
i perfer super heating my iron then pumping it into another room to be super cold thus distilling it
whats the point of doing that ?
i mean for the game ?
does this still work in 2020?
Why don’t you use the high pressure vents?
I think he's trying for a system that's easier to make early on, as high pressure ones require plastic, which might not be available as easily.
Ok
It would still be better tho as high right?
And I gtg to bed so if I don’t respond ya
Yes, should be better as a high pressure vent indeed :)
If you're just trying to get hydrogen into pipes you don't have to cool it at all. On the forum I showed a system to exploits the difference between detection range and pumping range of pumps to make a miniature gas pump able to pump gases up to at least 1000C without any problems. Here: forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95870-sour-gas-refinement-v20-2kgs-natural-gas/?tab=comments#comment-1087618
And before you say a miniature pump is not enough with just 50g/s throughput. Check your superactive high output hydrogen vent. It actually only puts out 39.4g/s average so one miniature pump is even overkill.
1 minute ago.
compact gas infinite wheezewort storage system
but why is this important? i'm only 3 half minutes in and i'm asking "but why?"
I know how to pump any amount of gas into a room.
I think you missed a crucial part of his design. He used waterflow tiles not airflow tiles
He did, but that's not important really, as neither system did anything with liquids.
Be carereful with compressing so much hydrogen in one spot! You dont want to accidently create a star inside your base, do you?
I'm sure you realize now that Klei watched your videos just to find s#$@ to nerf or patch 😜
BR ?!
Gotta give you the thumbs down for not releasing a black hole's density of hydrogen!