At the end of the day, I am a fan of the show and this is MY interpretation of the show/character. Just speaking my mind here, not claiming to be a pro weeb analytic lmaoo hope you at least enjoyed the video! Always wanted to do something like this
Solid vid. I just think you may have missed the mark on vegeta. Its not really as simple as bad guy is now good. Whaf makes vegeta complex is the reasonings behind him being evil and how toriyama crafted his charactwr to logically leave that behind. The constant lows of him losing, his pride being tested over and ovrr and having to accept not being thw best. It wouldve been easy for him to keep going down the same road of murder, talk shit, attempt to kill goku, abuse kids and eswentially be frieza number two. We even see multiple instances where this path seems more likely . But instead he became a solid dad and an even more solid best friend to a man who was the catalyst behind his way of life having to change. Othet that you hit the bean. Good shit g
@@kkgadsonii6637 I’m 99% sure I state that Vegeta is more simple than “bad guy turn good” in the video, it just wasn’t something emphasized. Not even saying you’re right or wrong, it’s just something I’m painfully already aware of lmaoo.
Vegeta doesn’t even show that level of faith in his own son. He cares for Trunks, sure but he doesn’t encourage him to be better or stronger than he is.
@@littleaqua32 Exactly. I think people just say Vegeta encourages Trunks by saying some stuff (true) but doesnt phrase it in an encouraging way. You cant just beat up your son to convince him of his overreliance
@@samirjohnson4524 I hate how people try to compare Vegeta's "good" traits to Goku's mistakes just to make Goku look worse. Look, Goku isnt a great father but he isnt a downright deadbeat of one who doesn't care about his kids. Trust me, having a father like Geets would be a nightmare lol. People act like he'd actually give a damn half the time
@@samirjohnson4524 It started out as a meme but people now take it too literally. Goku is a great father if anything, and he doesn't have a sugar mommy like Vegeta does. Instead he has to deal with a tiger mom.
@pumpkincoffee that is a fair assessment but when taking in the context of goku and how he is, I think it speaks alot about how much he cares about his son when he named his after his father figure/grandfather
I think a lot of people don't understand Goku's relationship with martial arts and fighting. Goku was raised by a martial artist and met ALL his friends and even his wife through martial arts. Fighting is not just a fun hobby or a genetic tendency, it's literally how he connects to the world around him.
It's also how the series progresses, which none of the detractors seem to get. The series revolved around fighting. To support this, it was stated in the impact of dbz by super eyepatch wolf that when bulma suggested to eliminate and erase gero by using the dragon balls to tell them where his lab is, thus preventing events to come and so none of them would die, since none of them knew how strong the androids were, goku, vegeta, and even tien shot that idea down because their lives are based around training, fighting, and growing stronger. The story progresses by fighting. It's built on the that very fundamental as well. Goku in the first chapter of DB takes out monsters and chops up wood, which is a indication that the MC and the series itself is very active and combat heavy. There is peace and down time in filler, but the series itself goes back to fighting because without it, the story cannot progress and is abandoning its foundation. Every character in the series was built up on fighting in every way, even the side characters and humans. Yamcha was a desert bandit, Krillin was a temple monk who had early martial arts training, Tien was the crane hermit student. They all had some form of fighting experience or grew up fighting. The humans largely abandon fighting and defending once the saiyans kept getting stronger but you could clearly still see that they still use martial arts and their superhuman strength for action heavy oriented work and haven't abandoned it entirely. Krillin is a police officer and was stated to be the best because of his superhuman strength, Yamcha was the best baseball player, and tien founded his own crane school.
@@MrSlashblade if that’s what you think sure, anime is slow, not a lot of story, and they stray away the intricacies of martial arts for a power fest. I respectfully disagree, it’s mid to today’s standards. Back then sure it’s one of the greats and it’s the building block for modern shonen. But shonen now do what dbz does but better and at a higher level
@@CasualTakeswithArchie if that’s what you think but you can have a show that isn’t dependent on the story and it still can be moving, and it not having a story is a big strength because it can actually have a world/universe that can move forward without too many plot holes. Too many times anime have “a story” and then they diverge from it, and yes in some cases the divergence is a plus for the anime but it’s a negative for the narrative your writing. Way too many times I say “oh yea that’s what this series is about” they fight aliens so not only would it be arrogant but pretty unreasonable to think earth martial arts could combat intergalactic races, the anime isn’t slow in the slightest it really just the buu saga, and they have characters that are more iconic even without nostalgia and even to this day there isn’t a single shonen jump series that had a run from 22 Budokai Tournament to Cell Saga. And if it wasn’t for the Red Ribbon Army Arc I would have added the 21st Budokai Tournament as well.
Out of most people, I even dare to say it, but Goku had one of the most subtle character arcs in anime history. At first he learned in OG Dragon Ball not only to become a martial artist, but also social intelligence and education through his interaction with the world and his fights. In early Z he learns to accept his heritage and his human side through the whole journey which ended up in becoming a super Saiyan(visual storytelling at its finest). During the cell saga he had to learn from his mistakes by not separating being a mentor and a father which ended up by sacrificing himself again for the love of his son(again learned a lesson and grew much more as a person). Also his first stint as a mentor shows again how much he still has to learn also teaching someone the mental aspect of fighting. In the boo saga he became more comfortable to be a mentor, but had to step up again and even learned to work together with once one of his biggest enemies. By the end of Z we saw a mature Goku who became not only a profi martial artist, but also a master, a mentor and now a great grandpa who learned from all of his mistakes he did through his life which concluded to become a wiser, mature and more responsible person. Just because he flew away at the end with Oob, doesn't mean he will abandon his family again. He knows that he won't be there forever and will train someone to become another protector of earth after he dies by natural causes. He's physically probably in his 50's by the end of Z
...And then super rolls around and just digs up goku's perfect, simple story arc and shits all over it. I LIKE super as a piece of fun storytelling, but man does it hurt if you consider how fantastic DB was up until the Cell Saga. Buu saga already has issues but Super is just...dumb at points. REALLY cool at others, but never cause of goku. Always cause of some other char. And I miss goku. He was a really fun, cool lens to view the world through.
@@SirMalorakGoku in Super is better than he was in Z, he actually spends time with his family constantly oh and also in the Granolah arc Goku finally forgives the saiyans and gets some clarity on his father and mother which leads him to unlock his own version of a angelic power, that is top tier story writing. Get off the Super hate train its getting old.
@@hankagura5355 First of all, im not that much into the super hate and the argument should be between you two,but the things you mentioned either happend at a small portion of super intead of in every saga like on Z, or were done in when he had time.(Excuse me for bad inglish)
@@javierclaresgarcia8279 Okay how does the timing of good character progression of Goku make a difference??? Would you rather have it happen in the Universe 6 ark where there is nothing to lose? Lol
@@hankagura5355 No, I would rather the story to had more main character grown centered moments during all super instead of principaly on the Granola arc, like, for example, him exploring the fact that maybe his relation with fighting may have altered his vision of his married and talking with Chichi about having a healthier relation.I know its out of the tone of dragon ball, but if he is going to almost be the same character during 3 sagas, maybe he should change a litle.Also, do not lol me please.
A lot of Goku's personality comes from his upbringing. He's not stupid or simple-minded. Remember, he was raised in the middle of nowhere with his grandpa, living a simple life but he's very intelligent and learns very quickly despite never having a formal education. All he knew was farming, hunting, fishing, and training but could master martial arts techniques by only seeing them performed one time. Meaning he has a photographic memory. After his grandpa died he basically became an adult even at a young age. Can you imagine how traumatized he was during this period? He never showed it and kept going, which explains a lot later in the story. Goku can articulate his feelings just as well as everyone else but he chooses not to because he can't show himself as weak since everyone is counting on him. After growing up, he's still that same kid. All he knows are those same things but now he has to protect those that he loves, no matter the cost. Considering the few years he got with his grandpa, Goku is a good father. Inexperienced maybe but he loves his kids. He pushed Gohan to his limits but ultimately knew that wasn't what he wanted. He loved Gohan enough to make his own choices after that. Can anyone say the same for Vegeta and Trunks?
To add on, he pushed Gohan because he's the only one that has the potential to go beyond the super saiyan limit and beat Cell within the short amount of time that they had. They may massacred Goku in super, but in DBZ he's a good dad. He spent his remaining time after training for cell with Gohan and Chichi.
Goku and Dragon Ball as a whole is greatly misunderstood by the anime fandom. It’s so rare to find a video on Dragon Ball that actually knows what it’s talking about, thankfully this is one of them.
@@TSO_Sage yep maybe you should watch piccolo throw gohan to that Boulder again and think to yourself was he gonna die or was he gonna survive just like how a kid goky survived getting hit in the head by a rock?
@@law2488 hate when people are sarcastic and still dead wrong lol. you missed the main point being made. him throwing a child at a boulder wasn’t about “could Gohan die” it’s just cruel behavior of someone anointed the real father. and actually if your not being revisionist, yes 100% it was plausible he could’ve died. Gohan was the first hybrid sayain, ruling out possibility humans make them weak at birth, Gohans boost was fluke, or that was all the power he had… and testing that with an idea which he either dies or doesn’t is crazy.
@TSO_Sage and yet goku did it when gohan fought against cell remember that, same thing. Senzu Bean. Also, that wasn't sarcasm. That was me saying facts.
What people forget is Goku's real mistake as a father. The only reason Gohan went into the chamber was to spend time with dad. Goku knew Gohan loved being with him but he also just assumed Gohan liked fighting and getting stronger on its own. That's why he gave Cell the senzu bean. He did what he thought Gohan would want him to do. When he realized this mistake, he immediately tried to take a senzu bean himself and tag back in to correct his mistake.
I think he wanted the best out of his son, he didn't think the action its self would hurt the child. He didn't want to hurt Gohan but helping Cell hurt Gohan and as soon as he realized that mistake he was sorry. He never doubted Gohan would win he just didn't want him the be harmed and Gohan is harmed by like the smallest emotional damage even though he's basically impervious to punches!
Considering they didn't even spend the full year in the chamber, Goku could have finished the training AND had a couple weeks to just chill and vibe with Gohan like he never had before in that couple extra hours while Vegeta was being washed by Cell.
Watch the show again, Gohan even backfired at Goku for going easy on him stating that "Piccolo was right, you are going easy on me just because I'm your son" and "Our time spent here is for nothing if I don't become a super saiyan."
i think people have been taking that moment where piccolo says that from abridged and attributing it to the real gohan and that's a problem, in the actual canon gohan does want to get stronger, but mostly as a support for his dad not as the main hero goku eventually realises he can be. that's why he gets so frustrated at goku easy on him at first and eventually pushes into super saiyan 1, and after that masters super saiyan. if gohan really hated it as much as tfs gohan did, why did both of them master ssj1 and not just goku? unlocking it so you can "be a better training partner" is one thing, but staying in it for so long you get used to the stamina drain/aggression basically permanently? that's the kind of thing only a fighter would need
In regards to goku being stupid or simply mimded, I think he's more of the latter. He's not stupid he is able to read people's and situations very well and even think ahead in regards to both fights and the bigger picture, I just think goku doesn't overthink things most of the time. He fights evil for the sake of his world and his friends and is just a good-hearted person. Most of his character development comes from life questioning what he is. It's the standard for Shonen, but his character development is internal and trying to learn who he is/what he should be. People who say he had no development miss almost the entirety of gokus character in z
@Yu Thays not fair to say an entire arc gets completed ignored because of who gets the last hit, especially when Gohan got the last hit in Saiyan Saga, Goku last hit on Freeza didn’t kill him and Trunks got him, Gohan got the last hit in the cell saga, and Goku spirit bomb was dependent on the world and hercule, the SSG was a combination of everybody and it didn’t work, he gets the last hit in Resurrection, Hit battle they both drew, Beerus got the dub in Goku Black arc/Xeno depending on the timeline, and 17 got the dub in TOP in a combined effort of Goku, Freeza and 17. Like Goku “wins” isn’t him just taking the dub solo If anything Goku getting the last hit has to have originated from the non canon movies, has to be because that’s the only ones where he actually just gets the dub.
@Yu I mean it's alot of times where characters other than Goku get to shine, even tho said shining isnt necessarily beating the big bad of the saga. Piccolo fighting 2nd Form Frieza and Android 17, Gohan's rage moments, Krillin had his moments in the original Dragon Ball series as did Roshi and Tien. You also have Vegeta's character moments in the Cell and Buu sagas, him wiping out the majority of the Universe 6 team while having more actually good characterization. Then in the ToP and the build-up to it is just filled with non-Goku and Vegeta characters. Piccolo training Gohan and dunking on SSJ2, Krillin showing off his fighting IQ against Gohan and Goku, all of Gohan's fights, everything Frieza did, Roshi basically having 2 whole fuckin episodes to himself back to back. Then obviously everything Vegeta and Android 17 did liiiiiiiiiiike. Its alotta side characters having their moments throughout the series. The problem is just mfs want them to beat the main antagonists of story arcs but thats something that rarely happens in most stories, let alone just Dragon Ball lol. It's also people not realizing that characters having their moments comes in more ways than just "woohoo I beat up this bad guy"
@Yu Gohan beat cell wit the help of vegeta not goku. All he did was give him a motivational speech. Trunks basically beat zamasu, and he beat frieza, gohan beat cell max, Goku was nowhere near that fight
This might be one of the greatest anime explanations I’ve ever seen 😅… Goku has always been my favorite MC inspite of all the talking points against him.. I simply loved his unwaned personality and innate leadership qualities.. he doesn’t ever feel bad for himself and simply finds answers to his tough situations… never had a “talk no jutsu” moment… but this made me like him even more
I've always said Goku isn't a bad father he's just Goku. He didn't have a traditional upbringing. He was raise by Gohan in middle of nowhere. Gohan the only parental figure he had up to point died and we're never told how old Goku was when he died. He had no other human interaction he was 12 and met Bulma, a 16 year old girl travelling on her own. The closest thing to parental figure he had after that was Roshi who encouraged Goku to push his limits and travel the world on his own as a child. His best friend Krillin who was the same age as him was also largely on his own. So was Yamcha, Tien and Chiaotzu. As far as Goku is concerned he had a great childhood travelling the world, getting stronger and making friends all over. To him that was normal. Kids fending for themselves, getting stronger and fighting dangerous opponents is arguably normal to him. He doesn't know any other way.
Plus the fact that Gohan even had Piccolo around as a role model and Master was because of Goku. Theres more then one way to he a good Dad, and setting your son up to be raised by people who will do it well and love him is being a good Dad.
@@BananaMana69 He didn't set Gohan up to be raised by Piccolo, it's something that happened. Plus Piccolo wasn't really a good father figure to Gohan anyway.
@@pkj2148 I mean it happened at first, but then after Goku came back to life he didnt have any issue with Gohan seeing Piccolo as his master/partial father figure and wearing Piccolos clothes, and he let Gohan and Piccolo develop their own great relationship. I disagree that Piccolo wasnt a good parental figure. Gohan isnt a regular child, Piccolo knew he had an amazing potential and knew he was one of Earths only hopes. Piccolo did what was needed and Gohan may have had a rough go of it, and even if he didnt like fighting he knew he had an obligation to protect others, and Piccolo was the one who made him strong enough to be able to protect people. And I mean technically Goku did set it up by not killing Piccolo Jr too.
Goten asked gohan what goku was like and he literally said "he's like an angel", if goku was a "bad father" or some goofy sht like that i doubt he'd say that
This video is actually very well made. I'm very irritated by how the majority of this fanbase sees Goku in the completely wrong way. Your video said exactly what I had to and I even learned some things that helped me appreciate him even more as a character. Incredible work!
Nah man Sage imma need you to do more of these. It's funny how Goku in Dragon Ball went from a kid who wanted to fight and explore the world went to a man who realized he would have to protect the world he enjoyed and getting stronger was the only way. Through multiple identity crisis and attempts to find a successor, He just accepts it as destiny that he's the protector of the universe and will continue to work hard to face any threat until his last breath. Still the same kid who likes fighting and exploring the world just got bigger and added a family along the way.
True, but at the End of Z Goku realises he can entrust the world onto Uub. Which is why he went to train him and also why he was so excited to fight him.
I got a point about the bad dad thing. He is Japanese. Most Japanese fathers spend hella time at work, on business trips, and away from their children. Goku takes his son with him to work. His job is just... Hands.
@inkchariot6147 it is but the characters don't act like a Japanese person would, these are aliens not humans and the writers know this. The only cultural thing is shenron being a dragon and other aspects but personality wise it's not it
Bro, you have no idea how much I appreciate this Goku video. Trying to convince my peers and friends that Goku is not just an "idiot" or trying to convince them that dragon ball as a whole is not "mid". W video through and through 🎉🎉
"Dragonball is boring and formulaic" yeah ok. Toriyama created the formula, all your favourite shonen series owe everything to Dragonball and Akira Toriyama. Not aimed at you btw
this was honestly an exceptional video, i don’t even make anime content but this inspired me to make a video about dragon ball z. good work man, this was amazing, watched beginning till end
I defended the Senzu bean take by saying it could be argued that Goku saved everybody by giving Cell Senzu bean, because it made Cell arrogant enough to push Gohan to see his power. Goku believing in Gohan so much that he gave Cell a Senzu bean, made Cell buy what Goku was selling and want to see Gohan’s power. It could be the case by not giving Cell a Senzu bean, Cell would have been desperate and just kill everyone. Goku throwing the Senzu bean isn’t as bad as people make it out to be. It’s way overblown, and it doesn’t make him a bad father
Look, Goku is my favorite anime character. You COULD argue that sensu bean was only a move that he made because he had SUCH faith in his son like a good father. But with the circumstances on the line, it was stupid. He realizes his mistake which is great, but doesn't change the fact that the situation would've been so much easier with out it.
@@TheUncivilizedNation explain why his power dropped after regenerating and explain why he was breathing hard after healing from Gohan's Kamehameha (not the father son one the one before he spat up 18)
Yeah, I've noticed Gohan never hated his dad from these arcs even though goku wasnt there for his son after the defeat of cell. Goku isnt considered as a bad father, goku is a good father and only trains just to protect everyone.
Nah, Goku certainly doesn't train only to protect everyone. That's a big part, in DBZ he realizes he has suceeded Roshi as earth's most powerful fighter. But a very big part of it is also that goku LOVES fighting strong opponents. He's a martial artist. It's his life. And this very simple duality is often lost on people. It's no rocket science either, he LOVES fighting but he's also not cool with people destroying planets and the like.
@@SirMalorak Fun fact: Once Goku thought he was the strongest (beginning of Z) pretty much at the top of the food chain on Earth. He became a family man, introducing Gohan to his friends and family. Only when Raditz came and fears of other much stronger foes coming did Goku just full forced his way into training and becoming stronger. Once Goku becomes the strongest in the whole Dragonball canon is the time when everyone will see how much he actually spends time with his family.
Piccolo was always my favorite character--amazing to see how different he is from start of Z to end of Z--but you definitely mentioned quite a few ways to see Goku from a new perspective I hadn't before. After watching, I can say I do honestly think Goku had considerably more growth than I realized. The point you made about him not being the sort of guy to announce it to everyone like your typical super hero / pro wrestler / celebrity made me think that there was a lot more growth in him that was silent. Sort of reminds me of another guy on RUclips who did a video explaining why Obi-Wan from Star Wars ended up as an aloof space hermit coping with PTSD. Lol; a similar perspective on a character where looking at things from another angle really helped to get some nuance to what seems like an extreme change in the character's attitude from point A to point B. But, I digress. Good video. Enjoyed watching it for sure.
My boy Sage has definitely been taking notes from the other anime leaders in our community when it comes to editing, and I’m here for it. Also, I’m super glad that you’ve done a deep dive on Goku, something that a lot of casuals need to see, especially those that just go with the flow of the larger bad takes on him, such as his face value choices, rather than actually taking into account the consequences of the choices he would make had they been what the fans wanted. A perfect example being Cell. The Android literally has Frieza cells, and what he did by blowing himself up after a Gohan went SSJ2, he showed what would happen had he not received that senzu. Cell got desperate because of his Frieza cells, he would do anything to kill everyone. Same reason why he destroyed the arena, because he didn’t wanna lose.
This Video did not disappoint. I‘m still very happy for you that you decided not to do only nba related videos. I‘m gonna be honest I do not watch every single video of you anymore but(still watch you regularly tho) videos like this make me appreciate you more as a content creator.
Funnily enough, I started watching DB with the og series and manga. And as a little kid, about goku's age in the story, he was one of the most relatable kid characters I'd ever read about. The way he approached situations in a more "straightforward" way while missing out on social norms and expectations, causing others to react in comedic ways to his lack of an expected reaction, was super refreshing. It was really cool to see a manga acknowledge that ideas like "girl" and "boy" would be very strange to someone so isolated, he literally couldn't tell the difference just based on clothing and behaviour. Something that I also struggled with growing up. He was also refreshingly kind, malicious or petty behavior just didn't occur to him naturally and it was other people's negative reactions of "this brat thinks he's better than me?" that created most of the conflict. When goku was usually just minding his own buisness haha. Because of that, it's super obvious to me that DBZ Goku is a grown up, he's way more mature and serious overall. And I feel his softer and goofier sides are dismissed because they're not the terrifying super saiyan badass that a lot of people initially where introduced to. Idk it's always made me a bit sad to see him dismissed as stupid or uncaring when he clearly just has a different way of expressing himself.
@@JasWinnin-gi2jb ye :] I was just a bit bumbed that one side tends to get more emphasis than the other in overall fan discussions. The balance is what I appreciate in his character. ^^
People often forget that it was stated that Goku has a pure soul due to his mind being akin to that of a animal or newborn child. His Naivity is what makes Goku himself.
That Saiyan Arc angle is some S-tier analysis, bruh. I never thought of it that way. In a sense, Goku not only was pretty much given the bombshell that his entire origin was way different than old man Gohan could've imagined, but that he's also pre-determined to either become one of them or die trying to stop them. In the end, he not only accepts his identity as a Saiyan, but he also accepts the responsibility of saving the entire universe as a Saiyan. He's not just a martial arts fighter with a wife and kid anymore, he's literally Superman in Kung Fu gear. And he wouldn't have it any other way. Top-tier breakdown, my dude.
Really profound stuff here man. I'm sure literally almost all of us dragon ball fans fall into the same place as me where we just grew up watching the show, but had never thought so deeply about the character motivations of Goku. Keep this kind of content up man. It's what's genuine, not clickbaity, and shows you know your stuff. The passion and meta commentary you had was incredible.
I am truthfully, grateful that you’ve made this video because there’s a lot of people that don’t know what they’re talking about when it comes down to DBZ and for you to explain it so perfectly to them makes me actually happy thank you 🙏🏾
it's a very interesting and cohesive take on goku's journey, never thought about the buu arc this way in terms of goku's character but it's definitely there.
I'm glad that someone sees how goku is a great character. Goku may not be the brightest but, morally, one of the best MCs I've ever seen and personally my fav.
goku was always a good father and then he died for the first time... after namek he doesn't come back for a year then he has three years of living with his family - mostly time skip then androids happen and he dies again seven years of peace last - goku comes back for tournament that's 3 years or so of goku actually being around after his first death then everything happens literally in one day destruction of earth everyone dying people give goku shit for "being the worst dad" but he did his best in that time
You'd just be wrong then. Toriyama has said twice that Goku isnt a good father and husband. You can find both statements online, he was even going as far as to say he doesn't think much of his kids in the Broly movie interview.
@@mrpodslol Goku's actions shows more than Toriyama's word that Goku himself isn't a bad father. Besides, Akira Toriyama has been shown to contradict himself in his own story.
@@StareachValcin Not really. I can't really remember Goku being a good father outside of anime filler. He constantly puts his kids in danger like with Buu and asking for the ToP, and ignores Gohan's feelings. He also just straight up leaves his family behind to train with Whis, despite ChiChi saying not to. I don't think he's a bad parent on purpose, but as Toriyama says, he probably just doesn't care.
When confronted with characters that are well and truly rooted in villainy, I think it truly pains Goku. He wants to forgive, he wants to show mercy, and he takes no pleasure in killing, even when it comes to the most terrible villains in DBZ. I think this is one of the most admirable traits of Goku, even in the face of ruthlessness and brutality he still tries to find compassion and understanding.
@@justasimplemanworkinghiswa1569 that was my entire point. They even did creator commentary recently on the entire series of abridged and they admitted their goku is a bad dad jokes really affected the community
@@justasimplemanworkinghiswa1569 a lot of DBZA fans actually did listen to it, it was literally a rewatch of dbza with the creators adding extra commentary, extra clips, and reminiscing with their fans.
Goku imo arguably the best character to ever be written love the premise of his character about him coming out the forest learning more about the world, how to live and like how his morality changes throughout the story and his journey of self mastery and self understanding aswell as finding what makes him happy. We see him embracing his heritage and trying to guide the new generation in Buu saga while understanding his sons
Yo sage has a voice and talent for video essays honesty my favorite one of all time. Because it’s not dry and monotone and it’s also the way he communicates his point come off naturally like you just talk to your friends but in essay form. He using that new degree I see!
You got me hooked from the whole 30 mins. So many other creators bring up some random stuff that ain't leading anywhere or don't bring enough flavor to the speak. I don't know if you're reading from a script or not, but dang you know how to get a point across. Earned a sub btw.
I think what people get confused by is that Goku's overt motivation never changes, so they don't see his changes. He always wants to get strong, but what changes over time is why he wants to get strong.
Ill never understand the whole Piccolo raised Gohan making Goku a bad dad. Goku died saving the world from Raditz and Piccolo and Gohan bonded over martial arts because there was no other choice. Piccolo became Gohans Master, he was the first one to ever train Gohan in martial arts. It really shows that Goku has no malice whatsoever for his friends and family, and lets them do whatever is best for them. Goku was never upset that Gohan wanted to wear Piccolos fighting gear instead of Roshis orange Gi, and he was glad that his son was able to soften the heart of Piccolo. Goku may not be the textbook great supportve father, but he never could be, and the fact that he did the next best thing and set up his son with a great role model who he knew he had a bond with and never got in the way over jealousy makes him a good father and also a good friend to Piccolo too.
A pretty great character analysis on Goku. It even showed me a perspective on dragonball super that I didn't consider. However, I don't think Goku has soft spot for Frieza, nor should he, since during Z, Goku has shown that he hated Frieza to the point that he never wanted to see or fight Frieza again. I just felt that dragonball super just messed up that enemy dynamic between Goku and Frieza just to keep Frieza in the series long after he ceased being relevant. The resurrection f movie and arc even had to come up with a reason out of nowhere that matches Frieza's personality, to make Frieza a threat again, and did it again during the Granolah arc. I also agree that Goku was never a bad dad. Goku wasn't a perfect dad, but he was a good dad to Gohan and later Goten.
Yo earned my like. I would say Goku is a simple minded person, but he's never truly been stupid, he's a fighting Genius (The opposite to Gohan which is why your right, because Gohan has all the potential but is a real Genius). I would say the first time Goku died was a little bad because he could have just come straight back, but at the same time he also wanted/needed to get stronger, especially after a Mega fight with Frieza. Gohan and Vegeta are still my favourites, but you got Goku 100.
Goku giving Cell the Senzu Bean actually makes perfect sense. He knew that Gohan was the only person who could kill Cell. No one else stood a chance and even if they rushed him, he more than likely would have just destroyed the Earth immediately. He could sense Gohan’s raw, untapped power and knew he needed to be pushed to unlock it. Goku knew Gohan wasn’t a fighter, that’s why he took it easy on him at first when they trained in the HTC. He gave cell the Senzu, not just because he wanted a fair fight ( although being a Saiyan, that’s certainly one of the main reasons) he needed Gohan to understand how serious the situation was and he needed Cell to feel arrogant enough to toy with Gohan in order to draw out his power. If he hadn’t given him the Senzu Bean, there’s no way they could’ve defeated Cell.
Gohan may have been the only person to take down cell at that moment but there were multiple other solution the cast could have at least tried to do. The cast has connections with the afterlife, 2 sets of dragon balls, 4 saiyans, plus the time chamber, gravity room, plus an entire planet of namekian, piccolo could have easily have fused with the namekians and literally one shot cell if he wanted to the use the dragon balls to reverse the fusion. They could have gotten guru from the after life and unlock trunks potential, to also one shot cell. They could have used the dragon balls to teleport 17 and 18 out of cells body. Entirely the reason why they don't do these strategies is because all the cast are absolute brain dead morons.
@@TheLimpbizparkgoku literally says when he walks out the time chamber “training anymore would do more harm then good” at that point in time he was as strong as he could get
Piccolo in the dbs manga Confirms that Goku has never changed from day 1 because thats the point of his character. To remain the same while changing the people around him.
@@acecashman1237 I'm not crying about it. If you're writer personally and you write your character to get development in the story and then turn around and say that they never had development in the first place that's something call bad writing and ruined your story. I personally don't care what the offer have to stay. Or how Canon it is. I don't treat writers like their words are absolutely Canon to the story. Because the evidence says otherwise.
He did not say he never changed since day one, piccolo only said that he is stil that guy. The point is, after all of this identity crisis and ecc that was perfectly described in this video goku knew that he was never in the wrong he has always been right which definetly shouldn't be considered a bad thing.
*Vegeta calmly meditating* "In no way is that a form of training!" - DBS Goku Grandpa Gohan, Master Roshi, Korrin, Mr.Popo, and King Kai's honest reaction: ...
15:29 The reason why he's a so-called "neglectful father": staying dead because he came to feel that his presence was too dangerous. Kind of the opposite of what people think about him, really.
and goku being considered a bad father makes me furious because he can't be a bad father if he risks his life on a daily basis fighting universal threats and sacrificing himself so his kids can even have a future and his friends it makes you question his friends and family
So glad u made the goku and vegeta comparsion lmao. I think they are relative it just depends on who u like more. heck before becoming a certified goku fan I was team vegeta and after analyzing the series more went back and forth between them. I think Vegeta shows more "human" moments or emotional connecting ones due to the nature of his personality and arc. It makes sense why people find goku not relatable but not cuz of his character but personality. On the flipside, Vegeta has a more simplier/understandable arc he's suppose to be the traditional character development while goku goes thru more complex and interesting or at least personal struggles. Not to say vegeta doesnt go thru that but even tho I somewhat disagree, Goku is a character who changes others in peoples eyes while vegeta is the opposite. Goku's personal growth helps change others while with vegeta he goes thru personal growth because of others. Goku's a character thats much more inner and as said, makes it harder for people to see. I dont think Goku is this super ultra difficult character in fact i think if everyone gave him a chance they could understand him but it's preconceptions/misunderstandings as well as toriyama's indirect writing that leads people to think otherwise. Personality isnt the only type of growth goku does have similar convictions since the start of the series but they do undergo change and he develops thru gaining new knowledge. And using that new knowledge he's able to better understand the world and how his perspective can fit into that hence him knowing when to spare enemies and not. Sure his core convictions are never gone but it's more so than not changing, not forgetting and learning to adapt which really fits with DB about a show of overcoming and becoming better than before. In a sense Goku teaches us to try not to lose that innocence or what we believe in and strive to be even thru hardships. It's fine to move the goalpost but never forgetting ur roots is important and fighting for what u think is right Playing a little devils advocate tho, I think some people when they hear vegeta is 'relatable' do go overboard in criticisms (prob memeing). Like obv they dont mean the actions vegeta's committed but the fact of how he's changed as a person thru family and friends aka life events. You arent the same person u were at 18 as a 21 or the same person at 25 as 4 years ago this kinda growth is realistic and relatable to people. But I digress, I wish people gave goku credit more there's a reason why theres a lot of character discussion around him even if it's always the same as his actions have nuance. Vegeta it's simple and done (usually) and most agree or either agree to disagree. If goku wasnt remotely interesting we wouldnt be having debates about him that basically tells the whole story lol
NGL, this video although I watched it a few times, this watch thru finally made me realize what else DBS is lacking that would actually make for more tension and while the anime had moments of hinting and attempting it, the series should delve more into the enemies targeting Goku’s friends and family specifically a lot more, we saw two instances of Goku snapping in Super when that happened 1) When he found out Zamasu killed ChiChi and Goten in that other timeline 2) When Jiren tried to blast his friend during the ToP. Those moments also happen to be some of the highlights of the series so I think the series would benefit more with a villain that from the jump goes after and even kills some of his friends and family say while him and Vegeta are off world with Beerus and Whis. It may be a little complicated now with both Gohan and Piccolo getting their new power ups but I’m sure they can make a villain that can work around that similar to Moro that can drain character’s energy
Wow, these were a lot of really good points and you convinced me that I was a little too harsh on Goku as a character. I never disliked him, but I didn't give him enough credit, so good on you for that. I think my only issue is that in a world where death is inconsequential (mostly) and impermanent, Goku is certainly an ABSENT father. Does he care about his son? Absolutely, like you said, he literally died twice, almost 3 times, to save his son and all of his friends. But when you can literally get wished back to life like it's no big thing, death being a barrier to being there for your son just really doesn't make any sense. But honestly, that's my only complaint at this point and compared to the shit Vegeta or Piccolo got away with, it's honestly not that bad. Thanks for a banger video.
I agree, and people forget Goku can still use the nimbus. How many pure blooded saiyens can do that, his character is an enigma. By far the most complicated, hidden by his goofy nature.
I think Goku is a flawed, but ultimately good dad. Giving Cell that senzu bean was a mistake, even if it came from a genuine place (he was so confident that his son could win), it shows that Goku didn't know Gohan all too well on a personal level and just assumed this is what he wanted. He clearly learns from this experience but still. I don't really like when people twist the senzu bean thing into an objectively positive thing, when even Goku himself ends up realizing it was a bad call. He made a mistake and died to rectify it, I bet the main reason Goku stopped looking for a succesor in Gohan is because he realized that wasn't the life his son wanted.
the senzu bean situation wasn't bad. Goku and cell both were pretty drained from fighting each other while gohan was at full strength. Now this could be head canon, but I'm positive if cell didn't regain his strength by eating the senzu bean, he would've just attacked gohan and possibly killed him right then and there. He has the cells of goku and vegeta who both like the thrill of a fight. That moment goku gave him the senzu bean just inflated his ego which is why he didn't take gohan seriously at the beginning of the battle, pretty much flexing on him like he did to vegeta. Plus I think this is more solidified due to the moment gohan mentioning to cell about awakening his potential which made cell even more intrigued to find out how strong gohan truly is when he's pushed. It's pretty much the same situation when vegeta obtained ssj 2nd grade and let cell absorb 18 to see see how strong perfect cell would be.
i love your takes, honestly something people dont understand because they didnt watch the OG dragon ball (in the manga there is no Z part, it starts from kid goku and keeps going till the end of magin saga) is that goku did have some character depolvement, the most important one is that he actually gained humanity. At first kid goku used to fight and sometimes killed his opponents, this is when he was 12 years old and his most naive time. he killed because he didnt understand, later one thanks to master roshi he began to understand what killing was. But when the piccolo daimao saga started, goku was a beast, he killed by rage he understood what was happening and didnt care, like i remember the times he went after tambourine (in that time, tambourine was defeated and wanted to scape goku) and he went for the kill. it wasnt untill he meet kami and started to learn ki sensing that he become more mercifull. And with king kai his character arc as a warrior came to a close, you can convince a guy who can feel the life of everything around him to kill at will.
This is such a great video. I hate it when people view shonen anime as lacking any kind of character depth or plot depth just because "fight go brrr". Bleach has always been one of my favorite anime (dbz def up there) and its rlly annoying when people just dismiss it cuz its not "deep enough" for them.
So… OG Dragonball: Goku growing up and changing the lives of others around him while learning about the world around him alongside his development as not only a warrior but as a person. DBZ: A time where Goku figures out that eventually, he won’t be around protecting the planet when he gets older as he discovers is own Saiyan heritage and copes then accepts the reality of it while trying to discover who will be the next successor in not only morals and dedication but in strength as well and with the capability and willingness to develop themselves in combat to make sure they keep themselves ready for the next threat. DBS: Goku and his friends and family are now at a more calmer period in life and the Saiyan is trying to figure things out what to do in his own as he waits (cause he certainly didn’t have that time in DBZ even with some small time skips like a job and such). You could say he’s a bit…bored and there’s little to do other than train, cause what’s the point of training if there’s no walls to overcome? He’s then introduced to the realm of the Gods beyond the Supreme Kais and learns the route of the Saiyan Gods. He tries to develop and learn new ways of training (that he may or may not have forgotten) from Whis to gain Godly techniques to his arsenal. He then uses his life experience to teach a super strong and crazily buff alien guy how strong companionship is if you’re not healthy in your own head if you solely rely on overpowering everything as your answer. Though with Pan around with her interest to learn and Uub found himself reborn and growing in power, like at the end of Z, Goku would find finally see if these his questions to answers would be solved and see what happens. Though along the way, he may have inadvertently made an confused and arrogant Supreme Kai pissed off to the point of multiversal genocide out of pettiness. However, that’s mostly because his teacher made the wrong fucking decisions to teaching the ways of how work is to Supreme Kais or how morality and intelligence is for mortals. Like Frieza, Zamasu fears the potential in mortals just like how Frieza fears the potential in Saiyans.
Sage!!! This video was absolutely phenomenal. You expressed my exact sentiments on Goku’s character. And why the arguments of him being a terrible character and father are played out and misinformed. Keep up the great work brother. Subscribed instantly 💯🔥
Goku's character gets lost to a lot of people in super since they only watched the dubbed which changed a lot of his core character from the original sub and manga. This was a really good vid sage. Would love to see your opinions on the GOAT, Yusuke Urameshi
Eng dub has nothing to do with that. Many ppl watch different dub and came to the same conclusion he got downgraded to the point he isn't even recognizable
One of the better anime character analysis I’ve seen, because it’s actually complex most of the things mentioned went completely over my head all these years. It also makes me feel completely different about how I look at others in the “simple” character archetype like luffy or gon
I appreciate this video bro It gave me a new outlook on super and it really does make sense that hes on his vibe out shit since nobody messing with earth
Honestly brother, I've seen people say Vegeta from the *Android Saga* was a better father than Goku overall. The version of him that wasn't bothered when Kid Trunk as an infant nearly died due to a ki blast inside a plane.
How to tell a DB "Fan" never watched DB - Based on just one take about each different character; - "Goku's a stupid and horrible father." - "Piccolo's a better father." - "Gohan not becoming a vengeful power-hungry warrior after Cell makes no sense and kill his character." - "Krillin died more times I can count." - "Humans were always bland characters and just fodders." - "Bulma is useless." - **Says lines of the Abridget DUB and say they're official.**
Team four stars acknowledges that Goku is a good dad, you have to watch the last DBZA of the cell saga to realize that they acknowledge this, or watch the commentary.
Goku is a pure hearted hero. He grows throughout the show as a father and in combat. Our world today loves the antihero and thats why characters like vegeta or the wolverine from xmen are so popular. As a culture we once aspired to be a pure hero like goku or superman. Now though its all about attitude. Perhaps the pure hero is unrelatable but that doesn't mean we shouldn't identity with those characters.
Gokus the type of character that changes or transforms the characters around him. He, in his character, is consistent and doesnt change over time, his actions cause others to change.
Yo, this one was a very good video. Sage, I really really like this video. I hope you can make more story analysis videos like this one sometime later on. This one was great!
At the end of the day, I am a fan of the show and this is MY interpretation of the show/character. Just speaking my mind here, not claiming to be a pro weeb analytic lmaoo hope you at least enjoyed the video! Always wanted to do something like this
Solid vid. I just think you may have missed the mark on vegeta. Its not really as simple as bad guy is now good. Whaf makes vegeta complex is the reasonings behind him being evil and how toriyama crafted his charactwr to logically leave that behind. The constant lows of him losing, his pride being tested over and ovrr and having to accept not being thw best. It wouldve been easy for him to keep going down the same road of murder, talk shit, attempt to kill goku, abuse kids and eswentially be frieza number two. We even see multiple instances where this path seems more likely . But instead he became a solid dad and an even more solid best friend to a man who was the catalyst behind his way of life having to change. Othet that you hit the bean. Good shit g
Three weeks ago?
The only issue I got with super goku is his appearance in the super hero movie and not knowing what meditation is
@@kkgadsonii6637 I’m 99% sure I state that Vegeta is more simple than “bad guy turn good” in the video, it just wasn’t something emphasized. Not even saying you’re right or wrong, it’s just something I’m painfully already aware of lmaoo.
I know I’m glazing but you the goat
We'll never see a dad that have faith in their son as much as Goku
Vegeta doesn’t even show that level of faith in his own son. He cares for Trunks, sure but he doesn’t encourage him to be better or stronger than he is.
@@littleaqua32 Exactly. I think people just say Vegeta encourages Trunks by saying some stuff (true) but doesnt phrase it in an encouraging way. You cant just beat up your son to convince him of his overreliance
@@Black_Knight_-BK- Right! And people say Goku is a bad father.
@@samirjohnson4524 I hate how people try to compare Vegeta's "good" traits to Goku's mistakes just to make Goku look worse. Look, Goku isnt a great father but he isnt a downright deadbeat of one who doesn't care about his kids. Trust me, having a father like Geets would be a nightmare lol. People act like he'd actually give a damn half the time
@@samirjohnson4524 It started out as a meme but people now take it too literally. Goku is a great father if anything, and he doesn't have a sugar mommy like Vegeta does. Instead he has to deal with a tiger mom.
Bro went from slandering Kuzma to anime video essays, I love it
Agree
This was long overdue for yrs btws.
One of the best turnaround in RUclips history, still got solz and sage tho.
watched playoffs last night, and feeling for some abridged this morning. this be the perfect channel.
He named his son after the person he loved the most, yet people say he doesnt care
Well honestly what he named his child means nothing
@@pumpkincoffeeyou obviously don't know how names work...
@@IItsAyoshi Nah thats not what i meant i didn’t phrase it right. I meant you can name your child whatever you want to and still not care for them
@@pumpkincoffee oh my bad apologies
@pumpkincoffee that is a fair assessment but when taking in the context of goku and how he is, I think it speaks alot about how much he cares about his son when he named his after his father figure/grandfather
I think a lot of people don't understand Goku's relationship with martial arts and fighting. Goku was raised by a martial artist and met ALL his friends and even his wife through martial arts. Fighting is not just a fun hobby or a genetic tendency, it's literally how he connects to the world around him.
It's also how the series progresses, which none of the detractors seem to get. The series revolved around fighting. To support this, it was stated in the impact of dbz by super eyepatch wolf that when bulma suggested to eliminate and erase gero by using the dragon balls to tell them where his lab is, thus preventing events to come and so none of them would die, since none of them knew how strong the androids were, goku, vegeta, and even tien shot that idea down because their lives are based around training, fighting, and growing stronger.
The story progresses by fighting. It's built on the that very fundamental as well. Goku in the first chapter of DB takes out monsters and chops up wood, which is a indication that the MC and the series itself is very active and combat heavy. There is peace and down time in filler, but the series itself goes back to fighting because without it, the story cannot progress and is abandoning its foundation. Every character in the series was built up on fighting in every way, even the side characters and humans. Yamcha was a desert bandit, Krillin was a temple monk who had early martial arts training, Tien was the crane hermit student. They all had some form of fighting experience or grew up fighting. The humans largely abandon fighting and defending once the saiyans kept getting stronger but you could clearly still see that they still use martial arts and their superhuman strength for action heavy oriented work and haven't abandoned it entirely. Krillin is a police officer and was stated to be the best because of his superhuman strength, Yamcha was the best baseball player, and tien founded his own crane school.
DBZ now a days is getting to a point where it's underrated
Even though most Animé now are successful after building off of it and finding ways to improve itself upon it
It’s comments like these that make me still believe it’s overrated. Og dragon ball is timeless but dbz, gt, and dbs are mid to todays standards
Nah it’s pretty good and I’d say DBZ is near goated and super despite its flaws is better then mid.
@@MrSlashblade if that’s what you think sure, anime is slow, not a lot of story, and they stray away the intricacies of martial arts for a power fest. I respectfully disagree, it’s mid to today’s standards. Back then sure it’s one of the greats and it’s the building block for modern shonen. But shonen now do what dbz does but better and at a higher level
@@CasualTakeswithArchie if that’s what you think but you can have a show that isn’t dependent on the story and it still can be moving, and it not having a story is a big strength because it can actually have a world/universe that can move forward without too many plot holes.
Too many times anime have “a story” and then they diverge from it, and yes in some cases the divergence is a plus for the anime but it’s a negative for the narrative your writing. Way too many times I say “oh yea that’s what this series is about”
they fight aliens so not only would it be arrogant but pretty unreasonable to think earth martial arts could combat intergalactic races, the anime isn’t slow in the slightest it really just the buu saga, and they have characters that are more iconic even without nostalgia and even to this day there isn’t a single shonen jump series that had a run from 22 Budokai Tournament to Cell Saga. And if it wasn’t for the Red Ribbon Army Arc I would have added the 21st Budokai Tournament as well.
Goku is actually a very emotionally intelligent person, his feelings are literally his guide and his morals are the epitome of a pure hearted person
Out of most people, I even dare to say it, but Goku had one of the most subtle character arcs in anime history. At first he learned in OG Dragon Ball not only to become a martial artist, but also social intelligence and education through his interaction with the world and his fights. In early Z he learns to accept his heritage and his human side through the whole journey which ended up in becoming a super Saiyan(visual storytelling at its finest). During the cell saga he had to learn from his mistakes by not separating being a mentor and a father which ended up by sacrificing himself again for the love of his son(again learned a lesson and grew much more as a person). Also his first stint as a mentor shows again how much he still has to learn also teaching someone the mental aspect of fighting.
In the boo saga he became more comfortable to be a mentor, but had to step up again and even learned to work together with once one of his biggest enemies. By the end of Z we saw a mature Goku who became not only a profi martial artist, but also a master, a mentor and now a great grandpa who learned from all of his mistakes he did through his life which concluded to become a wiser, mature and more responsible person. Just because he flew away at the end with Oob, doesn't mean he will abandon his family again. He knows that he won't be there forever and will train someone to become another protector of earth after he dies by natural causes. He's physically probably in his 50's by the end of Z
...And then super rolls around and just digs up goku's perfect, simple story arc and shits all over it. I LIKE super as a piece of fun storytelling, but man does it hurt if you consider how fantastic DB was up until the Cell Saga. Buu saga already has issues but Super is just...dumb at points. REALLY cool at others, but never cause of goku. Always cause of some other char. And I miss goku. He was a really fun, cool lens to view the world through.
@@SirMalorakGoku in Super is better than he was in Z, he actually spends time with his family constantly oh and also in the Granolah arc Goku finally forgives the saiyans and gets some clarity on his father and mother which leads him to unlock his own version of a angelic power, that is top tier story writing. Get off the Super hate train its getting old.
@@hankagura5355 First of all, im not that much into the super hate and the argument should be between you two,but the things you mentioned either happend at a small portion of super intead of in every saga like on Z, or were done in when he had time.(Excuse me for bad inglish)
@@javierclaresgarcia8279 Okay how does the timing of good character progression of Goku make a difference??? Would you rather have it happen in the Universe 6 ark where there is nothing to lose? Lol
@@hankagura5355 No, I would rather the story to had more main character grown centered moments during all super instead of principaly on the Granola arc, like, for example, him exploring the fact that maybe his relation with fighting may have altered his vision of his married and talking with Chichi about having a healthier relation.I know its out of the tone of dragon ball, but if he is going to almost be the same character during 3 sagas, maybe he should change a litle.Also, do not lol me please.
A lot of Goku's personality comes from his upbringing. He's not stupid or simple-minded. Remember, he was raised in the middle of nowhere with his grandpa, living a simple life but he's very intelligent and learns very quickly despite never having a formal education. All he knew was farming, hunting, fishing, and training but could master martial arts techniques by only seeing them performed one time. Meaning he has a photographic memory. After his grandpa died he basically became an adult even at a young age. Can you imagine how traumatized he was during this period? He never showed it and kept going, which explains a lot later in the story. Goku can articulate his feelings just as well as everyone else but he chooses not to because he can't show himself as weak since everyone is counting on him. After growing up, he's still that same kid. All he knows are those same things but now he has to protect those that he loves, no matter the cost. Considering the few years he got with his grandpa, Goku is a good father. Inexperienced maybe but he loves his kids. He pushed Gohan to his limits but ultimately knew that wasn't what he wanted. He loved Gohan enough to make his own choices after that. Can anyone say the same for Vegeta and Trunks?
THANK YOU
You explained that perfectly.
He’s essentially a super powered country boy
It's pretty stupid when everyone calls him a bad father when he has to save the earth every time and considering he's a orphan
To add on, he pushed Gohan because he's the only one that has the potential to go beyond the super saiyan limit and beat Cell within the short amount of time that they had.
They may massacred Goku in super, but in DBZ he's a good dad. He spent his remaining time after training for cell with Gohan and Chichi.
Goku and Dragon Ball as a whole is greatly misunderstood by the anime fandom. It’s so rare to find a video on Dragon Ball that actually knows what it’s talking about, thankfully this is one of them.
It was my first day out here I was SCARED lmaoo
@@TSO_Sage yep maybe you should watch piccolo throw gohan to that Boulder again and think to yourself was he gonna die or was he gonna survive just like how a kid goky survived getting hit in the head by a rock?
@@law2488 hate when people are sarcastic and still dead wrong lol. you missed the main point being made. him throwing a child at a boulder wasn’t about “could Gohan die” it’s just cruel behavior of someone anointed the real father.
and actually if your not being revisionist, yes 100% it was plausible he could’ve died. Gohan was the first hybrid sayain, ruling out possibility humans make them weak at birth, Gohans boost was fluke, or that was all the power he had… and testing that with an idea which he either dies or doesn’t is crazy.
@TSO_Sage and yet goku did it when gohan fought against cell remember that, same thing. Senzu Bean. Also, that wasn't sarcasm. That was me saying facts.
@TSO_Sage also remember super vegeta in the cell sega, oh yea, what a great parent he was to let trunks die.
What people forget is Goku's real mistake as a father. The only reason Gohan went into the chamber was to spend time with dad. Goku knew Gohan loved being with him but he also just assumed Gohan liked fighting and getting stronger on its own. That's why he gave Cell the senzu bean. He did what he thought Gohan would want him to do. When he realized this mistake, he immediately tried to take a senzu bean himself and tag back in to correct his mistake.
I think he wanted the best out of his son, he didn't think the action its self would hurt the child. He didn't want to hurt Gohan but helping Cell hurt Gohan and as soon as he realized that mistake he was sorry. He never doubted Gohan would win he just didn't want him the be harmed and Gohan is harmed by like the smallest emotional damage even though he's basically impervious to punches!
Considering they didn't even spend the full year in the chamber, Goku could have finished the training AND had a couple weeks to just chill and vibe with Gohan like he never had before in that couple extra hours while Vegeta was being washed by Cell.
DUDE at the start at Z he respected that and never let him trained,but in cell saga if they dont train they all gonna die bro
Watch the show again, Gohan even backfired at Goku for going easy on him stating that "Piccolo was right, you are going easy on me just because I'm your son" and "Our time spent here is for nothing if I don't become a super saiyan."
i think people have been taking that moment where piccolo says that from abridged and attributing it to the real gohan and that's a problem, in the actual canon gohan does want to get stronger, but mostly as a support for his dad not as the main hero goku eventually realises he can be. that's why he gets so frustrated at goku easy on him at first and eventually pushes into super saiyan 1, and after that masters super saiyan. if gohan really hated it as much as tfs gohan did, why did both of them master ssj1 and not just goku? unlocking it so you can "be a better training partner" is one thing, but staying in it for so long you get used to the stamina drain/aggression basically permanently? that's the kind of thing only a fighter would need
Goku is the catalyst for the character development of almost every character in Dragon Ball. He changes everyone he meets.
That's what a flat character arc is. Where the character doesn't change themselves, but the ones around him do. I think it's handled well with Goku
@@djroscurro9859 It's only handled well with goku the rest of anime mc's are just too trash for me
@@geokashi357 deku or asta? they do it well too
EXACTLY
That's why they made naruto have the talk no jutsu😅
Everyone can talk all the bad they want about Goku, but at the end of the day, all of us raised our hands and gave him our energy when he needed it.
In regards to goku being stupid or simply mimded, I think he's more of the latter. He's not stupid he is able to read people's and situations very well and even think ahead in regards to both fights and the bigger picture, I just think goku doesn't overthink things most of the time. He fights evil for the sake of his world and his friends and is just a good-hearted person. Most of his character development comes from life questioning what he is. It's the standard for Shonen, but his character development is internal and trying to learn who he is/what he should be. People who say he had no development miss almost the entirety of gokus character in z
@Yu Thays not fair to say an entire arc gets completed ignored because of who gets the last hit, especially when Gohan got the last hit in Saiyan Saga, Goku last hit on Freeza didn’t kill him and Trunks got him, Gohan got the last hit in the cell saga, and Goku spirit bomb was dependent on the world and hercule, the SSG was a combination of everybody and it didn’t work, he gets the last hit in Resurrection, Hit battle they both drew, Beerus got the dub in Goku Black arc/Xeno depending on the timeline, and 17 got the dub in TOP in a combined effort of Goku, Freeza and 17. Like Goku “wins” isn’t him just taking the dub solo
If anything Goku getting the last hit has to have originated from the non canon movies, has to be because that’s the only ones where he actually just gets the dub.
@Yu I mean it's alot of times where characters other than Goku get to shine, even tho said shining isnt necessarily beating the big bad of the saga. Piccolo fighting 2nd Form Frieza and Android 17, Gohan's rage moments, Krillin had his moments in the original Dragon Ball series as did Roshi and Tien. You also have Vegeta's character moments in the Cell and Buu sagas, him wiping out the majority of the Universe 6 team while having more actually good characterization. Then in the ToP and the build-up to it is just filled with non-Goku and Vegeta characters. Piccolo training Gohan and dunking on SSJ2, Krillin showing off his fighting IQ against Gohan and Goku, all of Gohan's fights, everything Frieza did, Roshi basically having 2 whole fuckin episodes to himself back to back. Then obviously everything Vegeta and Android 17 did liiiiiiiiiiike. Its alotta side characters having their moments throughout the series. The problem is just mfs want them to beat the main antagonists of story arcs but thats something that rarely happens in most stories, let alone just Dragon Ball lol. It's also people not realizing that characters having their moments comes in more ways than just "woohoo I beat up this bad guy"
Honestly…he’s just a funny dude. He knows what’s up but he flubs it for the bit and the training!
@Yu Gohan beat cell wit the help of vegeta not goku. All he did was give him a motivational speech. Trunks basically beat zamasu, and he beat frieza, gohan beat cell max, Goku was nowhere near that fight
@Yu because Goku is the protagonist? It’s HIS show? Not Vegeta’s, not Gohan’s, not anyone else’s.
This might be one of the greatest anime explanations I’ve ever seen 😅… Goku has always been my favorite MC inspite of all the talking points against him.. I simply loved his unwaned personality and innate leadership qualities.. he doesn’t ever feel bad for himself and simply finds answers to his tough situations… never had a “talk no jutsu” moment… but this made me like him even more
naruto bores people with talking into switching sides
goku beats the shit out of them
@@ryszakowy lol yeah young naruto was better for me
Agree
@@OffTopicKamah young Naruto talked to people to... Haku, neji, Gaara, he tried with Sasuke.... Naruto always has been a talk no jutsu type of guy
Because naruto has more character than goku and actually relates to others. Goku just fights and risks lives for thrills.
I've always said Goku isn't a bad father he's just Goku. He didn't have a traditional upbringing. He was raise by Gohan in middle of nowhere. Gohan the only parental figure he had up to point died and we're never told how old Goku was when he died. He had no other human interaction he was 12 and met Bulma, a 16 year old girl travelling on her own. The closest thing to parental figure he had after that was Roshi who encouraged Goku to push his limits and travel the world on his own as a child. His best friend Krillin who was the same age as him was also largely on his own. So was Yamcha, Tien and Chiaotzu. As far as Goku is concerned he had a great childhood travelling the world, getting stronger and making friends all over. To him that was normal. Kids fending for themselves, getting stronger and fighting dangerous opponents is arguably normal to him. He doesn't know any other way.
Plus the fact that Gohan even had Piccolo around as a role model and Master was because of Goku. Theres more then one way to he a good Dad, and setting your son up to be raised by people who will do it well and love him is being a good Dad.
@@BananaMana69 He didn't set Gohan up to be raised by Piccolo, it's something that happened. Plus Piccolo wasn't really a good father figure to Gohan anyway.
@@pkj2148 I mean it happened at first, but then after Goku came back to life he didnt have any issue with Gohan seeing Piccolo as his master/partial father figure and wearing Piccolos clothes, and he let Gohan and Piccolo develop their own great relationship. I disagree that Piccolo wasnt a good parental figure. Gohan isnt a regular child, Piccolo knew he had an amazing potential and knew he was one of Earths only hopes. Piccolo did what was needed and Gohan may have had a rough go of it, and even if he didnt like fighting he knew he had an obligation to protect others, and Piccolo was the one who made him strong enough to be able to protect people.
And I mean technically Goku did set it up by not killing Piccolo Jr too.
Goten asked gohan what goku was like and he literally said "he's like an angel", if goku was a "bad father" or some goofy sht like that i doubt he'd say that
This video is actually very well made. I'm very irritated by how the majority of this fanbase sees Goku in the completely wrong way. Your video said exactly what I had to and I even learned some things that helped me appreciate him even more as a character. Incredible work!
Nah man Sage imma need you to do more of these.
It's funny how Goku in Dragon Ball went from a kid who wanted to fight and explore the world went to a man who realized he would have to protect the world he enjoyed and getting stronger was the only way. Through multiple identity crisis and attempts to find a successor, He just accepts it as destiny that he's the protector of the universe and will continue to work hard to face any threat until his last breath. Still the same kid who likes fighting and exploring the world just got bigger and added a family along the way.
This was beautiful! Perfectly stated fam!!!
😥👍
True, but at the End of Z Goku realises he can entrust the world onto Uub. Which is why he went to train him and also why he was so excited to fight him.
not canon anymore@@zolaria1391
I got a point about the bad dad thing.
He is Japanese. Most Japanese fathers spend hella time at work, on business trips, and away from their children. Goku takes his son with him to work. His job is just... Hands.
Dbz is a completely diffeent from real life, ur looking way to deep into this trying to build connections that aren't even there
@@jimmyvasquez5298Is Dragonball not created by a Japanese man?
@inkchariot6147 it is but the characters don't act like a Japanese person would, these are aliens not humans and the writers know this. The only cultural thing is shenron being a dragon and other aspects but personality wise it's not it
@inkchariot6147 this is why trying to relate real world and anime with cultures isn't necessarily wrong buts it's hella misleading
@@jimmyvasquez5298am pretty sure Toriyama himself stated that the son's family is based on your typical Asian family
Bro, you have no idea how much I appreciate this Goku video. Trying to convince my peers and friends that Goku is not just an "idiot" or trying to convince them that dragon ball as a whole is not "mid". W video through and through 🎉🎉
"Dragonball is boring and formulaic" yeah ok. Toriyama created the formula, all your favourite shonen series owe everything to Dragonball and Akira Toriyama.
Not aimed at you btw
Normies can stay normies
Dragon Ball if viewed at a hyper philosophical level is one of the best pieces of media to ever grace this planet
this was honestly an exceptional video, i don’t even make anime content but this inspired me to make a video about dragon ball z. good work man, this was amazing, watched beginning till end
I defended the Senzu bean take by saying it could be argued that Goku saved everybody by giving Cell Senzu bean, because it made Cell arrogant enough to push Gohan to see his power. Goku believing in Gohan so much that he gave Cell a Senzu bean, made Cell buy what Goku was selling and want to see Gohan’s power. It could be the case by not giving Cell a Senzu bean, Cell would have been desperate and just kill everyone. Goku throwing the Senzu bean isn’t as bad as people make it out to be. It’s way overblown, and it doesn’t make him a bad father
true, look out of all the arcs, the cell saga fans are by far the dumbest
Cell has two infinite energy generator in him. Man’s didn’t need the Sensu Bean
He even wanted Cell gone once the plan worked. I guess he didn’t take account into Gohan’s sadistic nature
Look, Goku is my favorite anime character. You COULD argue that sensu bean was only a move that he made because he had SUCH faith in his son like a good father. But with the circumstances on the line, it was stupid. He realizes his mistake which is great, but doesn't change the fact that the situation would've been so much easier with out it.
@@TheUncivilizedNation explain why his power dropped after regenerating and explain why he was breathing hard after healing from Gohan's Kamehameha (not the father son one the one before he spat up 18)
Yeah, I've noticed Gohan never hated his dad from these arcs even though goku wasnt there for his son after the defeat of cell. Goku isnt considered as a bad father, goku is a good father and only trains just to protect everyone.
Nah, Goku certainly doesn't train only to protect everyone. That's a big part, in DBZ he realizes he has suceeded Roshi as earth's most powerful fighter. But a very big part of it is also that goku LOVES fighting strong opponents. He's a martial artist. It's his life. And this very simple duality is often lost on people. It's no rocket science either, he LOVES fighting but he's also not cool with people destroying planets and the like.
@@SirMalorakyou can do both you know
@@SirMalorak Fun fact: Once Goku thought he was the strongest (beginning of Z) pretty much at the top of the food chain on Earth. He became a family man, introducing Gohan to his friends and family. Only when Raditz came and fears of other much stronger foes coming did Goku just full forced his way into training and becoming stronger.
Once Goku becomes the strongest in the whole Dragonball canon is the time when everyone will see how much he actually spends time with his family.
Piccolo was always my favorite character--amazing to see how different he is from start of Z to end of Z--but you definitely mentioned quite a few ways to see Goku from a new perspective I hadn't before. After watching, I can say I do honestly think Goku had considerably more growth than I realized. The point you made about him not being the sort of guy to announce it to everyone like your typical super hero / pro wrestler / celebrity made me think that there was a lot more growth in him that was silent. Sort of reminds me of another guy on RUclips who did a video explaining why Obi-Wan from Star Wars ended up as an aloof space hermit coping with PTSD. Lol; a similar perspective on a character where looking at things from another angle really helped to get some nuance to what seems like an extreme change in the character's attitude from point A to point B. But, I digress. Good video. Enjoyed watching it for sure.
I agree with a lot of this analysis people rlly don’t understand Goku fully he’s a much better and more complex character than given credit for. W vid
My boy Sage has definitely been taking notes from the other anime leaders in our community when it comes to editing, and I’m here for it. Also, I’m super glad that you’ve done a deep dive on Goku, something that a lot of casuals need to see, especially those that just go with the flow of the larger bad takes on him, such as his face value choices, rather than actually taking into account the consequences of the choices he would make had they been what the fans wanted. A perfect example being Cell. The Android literally has Frieza cells, and what he did by blowing himself up after a Gohan went SSJ2, he showed what would happen had he not received that senzu. Cell got desperate because of his Frieza cells, he would do anything to kill everyone. Same reason why he destroyed the arena, because he didn’t wanna lose.
“His strength comes from the strength of others… you can even call it the power of friendship if you want.” That is so true.
A lot of the themes in dbz go over everyones head , the dialogue is a lot deeper than people realise because they take it as face value
This Video did not disappoint. I‘m still very happy for you that you decided not to do only nba related videos. I‘m gonna be honest I do not watch every single video of you anymore but(still watch you regularly tho) videos like this make me appreciate you more as a content creator.
Bro this is easily the best description of not only goku but the entirety of goku story on dbz and dbs.
Funnily enough, I started watching DB with the og series and manga. And as a little kid, about goku's age in the story, he was one of the most relatable kid characters I'd ever read about.
The way he approached situations in a more "straightforward" way while missing out on social norms and expectations, causing others to react in comedic ways to his lack of an expected reaction, was super refreshing.
It was really cool to see a manga acknowledge that ideas like "girl" and "boy" would be very strange to someone so isolated, he literally couldn't tell the difference just based on clothing and behaviour.
Something that I also struggled with growing up.
He was also refreshingly kind, malicious or petty behavior just didn't occur to him naturally and it was other people's negative reactions of "this brat thinks he's better than me?" that created most of the conflict. When goku was usually just minding his own buisness haha.
Because of that, it's super obvious to me that DBZ Goku is a grown up, he's way more mature and serious overall.
And I feel his softer and goofier sides are dismissed because they're not the terrifying super saiyan badass that a lot of people initially where introduced to.
Idk it's always made me a bit sad to see him dismissed as stupid or uncaring when he clearly just has a different way of expressing himself.
goku is like 46 ofc he's gonna be care free but if someone hurts goten or chichi he snaps he knows gohan can handle himself
@@JasWinnin-gi2jb ye :]
I was just a bit bumbed that one side tends to get more emphasis than the other in overall fan discussions. The balance is what I appreciate in his character. ^^
Ive noticed a lot of disrespect being thrown towards DB, and Goku nowadays, and Im so happy to see a video like this.
People often forget that it was stated that Goku has a pure soul due to his mind being akin to that of a animal or newborn child. His Naivity is what makes Goku himself.
That Saiyan Arc angle is some S-tier analysis, bruh. I never thought of it that way.
In a sense, Goku not only was pretty much given the bombshell that his entire origin was way different than old man Gohan could've imagined, but that he's also pre-determined to either become one of them or die trying to stop them.
In the end, he not only accepts his identity as a Saiyan, but he also accepts the responsibility of saving the entire universe as a Saiyan. He's not just a martial arts fighter with a wife and kid anymore, he's literally Superman in Kung Fu gear. And he wouldn't have it any other way.
Top-tier breakdown, my dude.
Really profound stuff here man. I'm sure literally almost all of us dragon ball fans fall into the same place as me where we just grew up watching the show, but had never thought so deeply about the character motivations of Goku. Keep this kind of content up man. It's what's genuine, not clickbaity, and shows you know your stuff. The passion and meta commentary you had was incredible.
I am truthfully, grateful that you’ve made this video because there’s a lot of people that don’t know what they’re talking about when it comes down to DBZ and for you to explain it so perfectly to them makes me actually happy thank you 🙏🏾
it's a very interesting and cohesive take on goku's journey, never thought about the buu arc this way in terms of goku's character but it's definitely there.
This is.. THE LITERALLY THE BEST ANALYSIS ON GOKU I HAVE EVER WATCHED. Like everytime you talked about him, i somehow hyped up everytime
I'm glad that someone sees how goku is a great character. Goku may not be the brightest but, morally, one of the best MCs I've ever seen and personally my fav.
I always said that Goku was a good father. But people, even DragonBall fans treat him like he's Ging
goku was always a good father
and then he died for the first time...
after namek he doesn't come back for a year
then he has three years of living with his family - mostly time skip
then androids happen and he dies again
seven years of peace last - goku comes back for tournament
that's 3 years or so of goku actually being around after his first death
then everything happens literally in one day
destruction of earth
everyone dying
people give goku shit for "being the worst dad" but he did his best in that time
You'd just be wrong then. Toriyama has said twice that Goku isnt a good father and husband. You can find both statements online, he was even going as far as to say he doesn't think much of his kids in the Broly movie interview.
@@mrpodslol Goku's actions shows more than Toriyama's word that Goku himself isn't a bad father. Besides, Akira Toriyama has been shown to contradict himself in his own story.
@@StareachValcin Not really. I can't really remember Goku being a good father outside of anime filler. He constantly puts his kids in danger like with Buu and asking for the ToP, and ignores Gohan's feelings. He also just straight up leaves his family behind to train with Whis, despite ChiChi saying not to. I don't think he's a bad parent on purpose, but as Toriyama says, he probably just doesn't care.
I think you’re misinterpreting what Toriyama said or just twisting the meaning of his words to mean something else entirely.
“A lot of these takes on goku just lack responsibility”
Ok sage 😭😭😭
When confronted with characters that are well and truly rooted in villainy, I think it truly pains Goku. He wants to forgive, he wants to show mercy, and he takes no pleasure in killing, even when it comes to the most terrible villains in DBZ. I think this is one of the most admirable traits of Goku, even in the face of ruthlessness and brutality he still tries to find compassion and understanding.
The best example post Frieza goku looked saddened
TFS and DBZA as much as I love it has such a major brain rot on the wider community ITS WILD
theres people that haven't read the manga or watched the anime but have only watched abridged.
@@justasimplemanworkinghiswa1569 that was my entire point. They even did creator commentary recently on the entire series of abridged and they admitted their goku is a bad dad jokes really affected the community
@@JDvb23 but people won' listen to that
@@justasimplemanworkinghiswa1569 a lot of DBZA fans actually did listen to it, it was literally a rewatch of dbza with the creators adding extra commentary, extra clips, and reminiscing with their fans.
@@JDvb23 so they just be willfully ignorant?
Exactly how I feel about goku summed up perfectly 10/10 video sage
We all need a person in our life who looks at us like Goku looks at the possiblity to become even stronger
You getting a sub for this. You listed every argument that I use as a lifelong dbz fan. Good vid bro 🔥
Goku imo arguably the best character to ever be written love the premise of his character about him coming out the forest learning more about the world, how to live and like how his morality changes throughout the story and his journey of self mastery and self understanding aswell as finding what makes him happy. We see him embracing his heritage and trying to guide the new generation in Buu saga while understanding his sons
Idk about that. He's good, but there are better characters. But yeah he's amazing
Did broly really say goku is the best writing character ever made 🤣 he dosent even make it to top 20
@@miftahuljannat3050 he's too busy being top 1😪
@@tankjackson698 characters like Guts, Thorfin, Jhohan, and Eren destroys goku in character depth and writing💀
@@miftahuljannat3050 Goku clears all of them especially Eren and Thorfinn
💀 bro really snuck in Eren
Finally someone else's gets it😂 people we're making me feel crazy for liking goku most on the show
dis a good ass video sage ngl it’s crazy how you went from clowning the clippers to a in-depth character analysis on goku
RIP Toriyama
this was the best anime analysis video i've seen, completely changed my perspective on the series and super🤯
Yo sage has a voice and talent for video essays honesty my favorite one of all time. Because it’s not dry and monotone and it’s also the way he communicates his point come off naturally like you just talk to your friends but in essay form. He using that new degree I see!
You got me hooked from the whole 30 mins. So many other creators bring up some random stuff that ain't leading anywhere or don't bring enough flavor to the speak. I don't know if you're reading from a script or not, but dang you know how to get a point across. Earned a sub btw.
I think what people get confused by is that Goku's overt motivation never changes, so they don't see his changes. He always wants to get strong, but what changes over time is why he wants to get strong.
Ill never understand the whole Piccolo raised Gohan making Goku a bad dad. Goku died saving the world from Raditz and Piccolo and Gohan bonded over martial arts because there was no other choice. Piccolo became Gohans Master, he was the first one to ever train Gohan in martial arts.
It really shows that Goku has no malice whatsoever for his friends and family, and lets them do whatever is best for them. Goku was never upset that Gohan wanted to wear Piccolos fighting gear instead of Roshis orange Gi, and he was glad that his son was able to soften the heart of Piccolo.
Goku may not be the textbook great supportve father, but he never could be, and the fact that he did the next best thing and set up his son with a great role model who he knew he had a bond with and never got in the way over jealousy makes him a good father and also a good friend to Piccolo too.
Calling Goku a bad and poorly developed character is just such a horrid take that I didn’t think anyone actually believed it😂
A pretty great character analysis on Goku. It even showed me a perspective on dragonball super that I didn't consider. However, I don't think Goku has soft spot for Frieza, nor should he, since during Z, Goku has shown that he hated Frieza to the point that he never wanted to see or fight Frieza again. I just felt that dragonball super just messed up that enemy dynamic between Goku and Frieza just to keep Frieza in the series long after he ceased being relevant. The resurrection f movie and arc even had to come up with a reason out of nowhere that matches Frieza's personality, to make Frieza a threat again, and did it again during the Granolah arc. I also agree that Goku was never a bad dad. Goku wasn't a perfect dad, but he was a good dad to Gohan and later Goten.
Let's be real Goku is the closest thing Frieza has to a friend
Goku is the only one who understands Frieza
Yo earned my like. I would say Goku is a simple minded person, but he's never truly been stupid, he's a fighting Genius (The opposite to Gohan which is why your right, because Gohan has all the potential but is a real Genius). I would say the first time Goku died was a little bad because he could have just come straight back, but at the same time he also wanted/needed to get stronger, especially after a Mega fight with Frieza. Gohan and Vegeta are still my favourites, but you got Goku 100.
Goku is just a humble and wholesome man. Hes just ready to meet the next fight or challenger. I can't see whats wrong with that!
Goku giving Cell the Senzu Bean actually makes perfect sense. He knew that Gohan was the only person who could kill Cell. No one else stood a chance and even if they rushed him, he more than likely would have just destroyed the Earth immediately. He could sense Gohan’s raw, untapped power and knew he needed to be pushed to unlock it. Goku knew Gohan wasn’t a fighter, that’s why he took it easy on him at first when they trained in the HTC. He gave cell the Senzu, not just because he wanted a fair fight ( although being a Saiyan, that’s certainly one of the main reasons) he needed Gohan to understand how serious the situation was and he needed Cell to feel arrogant enough to toy with Gohan in order to draw out his power. If he hadn’t given him the Senzu Bean, there’s no way they could’ve defeated Cell.
Gohan may have been the only person to take down cell at that moment but there were multiple other solution the cast could have at least tried to do. The cast has connections with the afterlife, 2 sets of dragon balls, 4 saiyans, plus the time chamber, gravity room, plus an entire planet of namekian, piccolo could have easily have fused with the namekians and literally one shot cell if he wanted to the use the dragon balls to reverse the fusion.
They could have gotten guru from the after life and unlock trunks potential, to also one shot cell.
They could have used the dragon balls to teleport 17 and 18 out of cells body.
Entirely the reason why they don't do these strategies is because all the cast are absolute brain dead morons.
Dude this is so simple to understand,how come those dumbasses not get it?? Did they never watched the show??
@@TheLimpbizparkgoku literally says when he walks out the time chamber “training anymore would do more harm then good” at that point in time he was as strong as he could get
Piccolo in the dbs manga Confirms that Goku has never changed from day 1 because thats the point of his character. To remain the same while changing the people around him.
Yeah. . . .
In dbs.
@@binxandfriendsundersister9269dbs sucks
@@binxandfriendsundersister9269 it's canon, cry about it
@@acecashman1237 I'm not crying about it. If you're writer personally and you write your character to get development in the story and then turn around and say that they never had development in the first place that's something call bad writing and ruined your story. I personally don't care what the offer have to stay. Or how Canon it is. I don't treat writers like their words are absolutely Canon to the story. Because the evidence says otherwise.
He did not say he never changed since day one, piccolo only said that he is stil that guy.
The point is, after all of this identity crisis and ecc that was perfectly described in this video goku knew that he was never in the wrong he has always been right which definetly shouldn't be considered a bad thing.
I like these type of videos I'd like to see more of them. Keep it up Sage 👍
There's a reason why there's a saying that says,
" Dont f**k with us Dragonball fans, we dont watch the show! "
*Vegeta calmly meditating*
"In no way is that a form of training!"
- DBS Goku
Grandpa Gohan, Master Roshi, Korrin, Mr.Popo, and King Kai's honest reaction: ...
Goku's Development is the most realistic. When you change its hard for other people to notice unless they analyze you. Or literally tell them.
And all that development is drowned in the gutter in super 💀
@@miftahuljannat3050 well not all of it 😅, but it has dumbed down a bit
15:29 The reason why he's a so-called "neglectful father": staying dead because he came to feel that his presence was too dangerous. Kind of the opposite of what people think about him, really.
and goku being considered a bad father makes me furious because he can't be a bad father if he risks his life on a daily basis fighting universal threats and sacrificing himself so his kids can even have a future and his friends it makes you question his friends and family
So glad u made the goku and vegeta comparsion lmao. I think they are relative it just depends on who u like more. heck before becoming a certified goku fan I was team vegeta and after analyzing the series more went back and forth between them. I think Vegeta shows more "human" moments or emotional connecting ones due to the nature of his personality and arc. It makes sense why people find goku not relatable but not cuz of his character but personality. On the flipside, Vegeta has a more simplier/understandable arc he's suppose to be the traditional character development while goku goes thru more complex and interesting or at least personal struggles. Not to say vegeta doesnt go thru that but even tho I somewhat disagree, Goku is a character who changes others in peoples eyes while vegeta is the opposite. Goku's personal growth helps change others while with vegeta he goes thru personal growth because of others. Goku's a character thats much more inner and as said, makes it harder for people to see. I dont think Goku is this super ultra difficult character in fact i think if everyone gave him a chance they could understand him but it's preconceptions/misunderstandings as well as toriyama's indirect writing that leads people to think otherwise. Personality isnt the only type of growth goku does have similar convictions since the start of the series but they do undergo change and he develops thru gaining new knowledge. And using that new knowledge he's able to better understand the world and how his perspective can fit into that hence him knowing when to spare enemies and not. Sure his core convictions are never gone but it's more so than not changing, not forgetting and learning to adapt which really fits with DB about a show of overcoming and becoming better than before. In a sense Goku teaches us to try not to lose that innocence or what we believe in and strive to be even thru hardships. It's fine to move the goalpost but never forgetting ur roots is important and fighting for what u think is right
Playing a little devils advocate tho, I think some people when they hear vegeta is 'relatable' do go overboard in criticisms (prob memeing). Like obv they dont mean the actions vegeta's committed but the fact of how he's changed as a person thru family and friends aka life events. You arent the same person u were at 18 as a 21 or the same person at 25 as 4 years ago this kinda growth is realistic and relatable to people. But I digress, I wish people gave goku credit more there's a reason why theres a lot of character discussion around him even if it's always the same as his actions have nuance. Vegeta it's simple and done (usually) and most agree or either agree to disagree. If goku wasnt remotely interesting we wouldnt be having debates about him that basically tells the whole story lol
Yo, I'm 10 minutes in and this is already the best explanation of this show 😂 thank you for caping for Goku.
NGL, this video although I watched it a few times, this watch thru finally made me realize what else DBS is lacking that would actually make for more tension and while the anime had moments of hinting and attempting it, the series should delve more into the enemies targeting Goku’s friends and family specifically a lot more, we saw two instances of Goku snapping in Super when that happened 1) When he found out Zamasu killed ChiChi and Goten in that other timeline 2) When Jiren tried to blast his friend during the ToP. Those moments also happen to be some of the highlights of the series so I think the series would benefit more with a villain that from the jump goes after and even kills some of his friends and family say while him and Vegeta are off world with Beerus and Whis. It may be a little complicated now with both Gohan and Piccolo getting their new power ups but I’m sure they can make a villain that can work around that similar to Moro that can drain character’s energy
Wow, these were a lot of really good points and you convinced me that I was a little too harsh on Goku as a character. I never disliked him, but I didn't give him enough credit, so good on you for that. I think my only issue is that in a world where death is inconsequential (mostly) and impermanent, Goku is certainly an ABSENT father. Does he care about his son? Absolutely, like you said, he literally died twice, almost 3 times, to save his son and all of his friends. But when you can literally get wished back to life like it's no big thing, death being a barrier to being there for your son just really doesn't make any sense. But honestly, that's my only complaint at this point and compared to the shit Vegeta or Piccolo got away with, it's honestly not that bad. Thanks for a banger video.
I agree, and people forget Goku can still use the nimbus. How many pure blooded saiyens can do that, his character is an enigma. By far the most complicated, hidden by his goofy nature.
I think Goku is a flawed, but ultimately good dad. Giving Cell that senzu bean was a mistake, even if it came from a genuine place (he was so confident that his son could win), it shows that Goku didn't know Gohan all too well on a personal level and just assumed this is what he wanted. He clearly learns from this experience but still.
I don't really like when people twist the senzu bean thing into an objectively positive thing, when even Goku himself ends up realizing it was a bad call. He made a mistake and died to rectify it, I bet the main reason Goku stopped looking for a succesor in Gohan is because he realized that wasn't the life his son wanted.
facts
nah wasn't a mistake 🥱
the senzu bean situation wasn't bad. Goku and cell both were pretty drained from fighting each other while gohan was at full strength. Now this could be head canon, but I'm positive if cell didn't regain his strength by eating the senzu bean, he would've just attacked gohan and possibly killed him right then and there. He has the cells of goku and vegeta who both like the thrill of a fight. That moment goku gave him the senzu bean just inflated his ego which is why he didn't take gohan seriously at the beginning of the battle, pretty much flexing on him like he did to vegeta. Plus I think this is more solidified due to the moment gohan mentioning to cell about awakening his potential which made cell even more intrigued to find out how strong gohan truly is when he's pushed. It's pretty much the same situation when vegeta obtained ssj 2nd grade and let cell absorb 18 to see see how strong perfect cell would be.
I think Gohan could have beat Cell. I don’t think he anticipated Cell going so far as to blow himself up
i love your takes, honestly something people dont understand because they didnt watch the OG dragon ball (in the manga there is no Z part, it starts from kid goku and keeps going till the end of magin saga) is that goku did have some character depolvement, the most important one is that he actually gained humanity. At first kid goku used to fight and sometimes killed his opponents, this is when he was 12 years old and his most naive time. he killed because he didnt understand, later one thanks to master roshi he began to understand what killing was. But when the piccolo daimao saga started, goku was a beast, he killed by rage he understood what was happening and didnt care, like i remember the times he went after tambourine (in that time, tambourine was defeated and wanted to scape goku) and he went for the kill. it wasnt untill he meet kami and started to learn ki sensing that he become more mercifull.
And with king kai his character arc as a warrior came to a close, you can convince a guy who can feel the life of everything around him to kill at will.
This is such a great video. I hate it when people view shonen anime as lacking any kind of character depth or plot depth just because "fight go brrr". Bleach has always been one of my favorite anime (dbz def up there) and its rlly annoying when people just dismiss it cuz its not "deep enough" for them.
So…
OG Dragonball: Goku growing up and changing the lives of others around him while learning about the world around him alongside his development as not only a warrior but as a person.
DBZ: A time where Goku figures out that eventually, he won’t be around protecting the planet when he gets older as he discovers is own Saiyan heritage and copes then accepts the reality of it while trying to discover who will be the next successor in not only morals and dedication but in strength as well and with the capability and willingness to develop themselves in combat to make sure they keep themselves ready for the next threat.
DBS: Goku and his friends and family are now at a more calmer period in life and the Saiyan is trying to figure things out what to do in his own as he waits (cause he certainly didn’t have that time in DBZ even with some small time skips like a job and such). You could say he’s a bit…bored and there’s little to do other than train, cause what’s the point of training if there’s no walls to overcome? He’s then introduced to the realm of the Gods beyond the Supreme Kais and learns the route of the Saiyan Gods. He tries to develop and learn new ways of training (that he may or may not have forgotten) from Whis to gain Godly techniques to his arsenal. He then uses his life experience to teach a super strong and crazily buff alien guy how strong companionship is if you’re not healthy in your own head if you solely rely on overpowering everything as your answer. Though with Pan around with her interest to learn and Uub found himself reborn and growing in power, like at the end of Z, Goku would find finally see if these his questions to answers would be solved and see what happens.
Though along the way, he may have inadvertently made an confused and arrogant Supreme Kai pissed off to the point of multiversal genocide out of pettiness. However, that’s mostly because his teacher made the wrong fucking decisions to teaching the ways of how work is to Supreme Kais or how morality and intelligence is for mortals. Like Frieza, Zamasu fears the potential in mortals just like how Frieza fears the potential in Saiyans.
Sage!!! This video was absolutely phenomenal. You expressed my exact sentiments on Goku’s character. And why the arguments of him being a terrible character and father are played out and misinformed. Keep up the great work brother. Subscribed instantly 💯🔥
0:07 Ik damn well you looked up super saiyan 100 for that.🤣🤣
4:30 Goku: I’m not one of those MONKIES
Goku's character gets lost to a lot of people in super since they only watched the dubbed which changed a lot of his core character from the original sub and manga. This was a really good vid sage. Would love to see your opinions on the GOAT, Yusuke Urameshi
what about the dub in Z?
The Yusuke Urameshi video
He is still very downgraded in the original sub it is pretty clear
Eng dub has nothing to do with that. Many ppl watch different dub and came to the same conclusion he got downgraded to the point he isn't even recognizable
Actually you can't blame the dub for Super because last time I checked we can still see what Goku does and we can still see it's still a downgrade
One of the better anime character analysis I’ve seen, because it’s actually complex most of the things mentioned went completely over my head all these years. It also makes me feel completely different about how I look at others in the “simple” character archetype like luffy or gon
"Bro died for his son twice and he's a bad Father."
Definitely stealing this
I appreciate this video bro It gave me a new outlook on super and it really does make sense that hes on his vibe out shit since nobody messing with earth
Honestly brother, I've seen people say Vegeta from the *Android Saga* was a better father than Goku overall. The version of him that wasn't bothered when Kid Trunk as an infant nearly died due to a ki blast inside a plane.
Oh, and also, this video was 🔥. I'm praying for more anime content cause this shit was amazing. Keep it up, Sage
Thank you for this video some of the opinions and hate for goku has been getting so ridiculous especially when other main character ik exists
I never thought of him being that deep but you brought up some interesting points that makes him deeper than people think he is.
How to tell a DB "Fan" never watched DB - Based on just one take about each different character;
- "Goku's a stupid and horrible father."
- "Piccolo's a better father."
- "Gohan not becoming a vengeful power-hungry warrior after Cell makes no sense and kill his character."
- "Krillin died more times I can count."
- "Humans were always bland characters and just fodders."
- "Bulma is useless."
- **Says lines of the Abridget DUB and say they're official.**
Team four stars acknowledges that Goku is a good dad, you have to watch the last DBZA of the cell saga to realize that they acknowledge this, or watch the commentary.
goku is a character that can't really see past his own desires, but its also what makes him super relatable and why i love him.
bro i have never heard a more put together analysis of a character in my life lmfao
Goku is a pure hearted hero. He grows throughout the show as a father and in combat. Our world today loves the antihero and thats why characters like vegeta or the wolverine from xmen are so popular. As a culture we once aspired to be a pure hero like goku or superman. Now though its all about attitude. Perhaps the pure hero is unrelatable but that doesn't mean we shouldn't identity with those characters.
After playing DBZ kakarot I realized how much of a good father he is. But yeah he does change throughout Z.
I should pick that one up
Gokus the type of character that changes or transforms the characters around him. He, in his character, is consistent and doesnt change over time, his actions cause others to change.
Bruh, my brother and I were just talking about how people totally get Goku wrong! Preach brother!
This was by far the best goku analysis video
Yo, this one was a very good video. Sage, I really really like this video. I hope you can make more story analysis videos like this one sometime later on. This one was great!
This video heat.
appreciated the advice brodie ! 🫡
It's like people want Goku to use talk no jutsu or something for him to be "relatable"
The Moro and Granolah arcs have also used Goku amazingly in my opinion. Super is picking it back up.