83. Autogynephilia: an Overlooked Source of Transgender Identification? With Phil Illy
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- Опубликовано: 25 июл 2024
- On this podcast we often explore the gender crisis affecting today’s young and vulnerable people. Today we bring on a different perspective from Phil Illy, a man who self-identifies as autogynephilic, meaning that he experiences a sexual attraction to the idea of himself as a woman. Originally described by sexologist Ray Blanchard, autogynephilia is a common contributor to gender dysphoria in young men. Yet the sexual component of “gender identity” is rarely addressed in the process of diagnosing and reviewing “treatment options” for gender dysphoria. Why is this?
Phil considers autogynephilia, as well as its counterpart in women, autoandrophilia, to belong to a broader category he calls autoheterosexuality. While many in the gender critical community consider these to be sexual fetishes, Phil refers to them instead as sexual orientations. Within that framework, he researched the issue extensively and wrote a book on the subject.
Phil makes several further assertions in this interview, while I play devil’s advocate and push back, all in an attempt to bring understanding to listeners who are concerned for loved ones and expose both sides of the debate over this taboo topic. What does femininity mean to him? Is autoheterosexuality just another form of narcissism? What is its connection with autism? How influenced is it by fetish pornography and niche online microcultures? Would it occur in a cultural vacuum? Is it heritable? How can it be a sexual orientation if it doesn’t involve another person; isn’t it just a fetish? Are “autohet” people capable of sustaining meaningful romantic relationships with others? How are their platonic relationships and quality of life? Are self-aware autogynephilic men threats to women, and under what conditions can we peacefully coexist?
UPDATE: this episode was recorded prior to Phil's appearance at the Genspect conference in Denver, which became the subject of much heated debate on X. I was not at the conference, but have weighed in online to some degree. Things got so heated around this issue I have temporarily locked my account. The best commentary I have found on the debacle comes from the ever-admirable Heather Heying on her blog, Natural Selections: The Public Fetish. naturalselections.bio/p/the-p...
Phil is the author of Autoheterosexual: Attracted to Being the Other Sex. He received degrees in physics & mechanical engineering before retiring to Portland, Oregon. His blog can be found at phililly.substack.com/. X: @autogynephilic Book: amzn.to/3MC1RJp
Landon & Robby Starbuck’s interview with detransitioner Chris Beck: • Trans Navy SEAL Detran...
00:00 Start
[00:01:52] Autogynephilia and sexual orientation.
[00:05:17] Auto-sexual orientations.
[00:10:08] Dynamic competition in relationships.
[00:14:32] Autogynephilic men and attraction.
[00:19:45] Body and identity.
[00:22:12] Embracing cross-sex identity.
[00:27:13] Attaining an excellent male physique.
[00:31:18] Celebrity crushes and real relationships.
[00:37:37] Sexual orientation and self-love.
[00:41:09] Neurological studies on AGP.
[00:47:09] Porn addiction and sissy hypnoporn.
[00:50:03] Autogynephilia as an inborn predisposition.
[00:55:46] Autogynephilia in the trans community.
[01:00:29] Overlap between autism and autogynephilia.
[01:04:45] Autogynephilia and Transgender Identities.
[01:07:23] Autoandrophilia and female-to-male transgenderism.
[01:11:28] Autoandrophilia in transsexuals.
[01:19:08] Autogynephilic males seeking identity.
[01:19:23] Autogynephilia and Medical Transition.
[01:24:31] Ignorance in therapist education.
[01:28:32] The complexity of bisexuality.
[01:34:08] Relations with women and envy.
[01:38:38] Men getting in touch with feminine side.
[01:43:18] The desire to be the other sex.
[01:46:16] Autosexuality as the culprit.
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He fails to recognize the difference in motivations of women who identify as male, and men who identify as women.
No, he only doesn't have double standards like the TERF movement, one equal standard for all humans.
Indeed. TIM's identify as women, trans identified women are opting out of the pornsick gaze of men like them.
Only men are autogynephile, women, regardless, how they identify are not kinky in the same way!!
@@clairhonnor6211THIS
I can see the value in understanding this paraphilia, but I really wouldn't want to validate it (and certainly not promote it).
If there's such a thing as "a likeable, sympathetic AGP", I've yet to see it...
100% spot on!
The ones who are in "recovery" in terms of the disorder (and I swear I HAVE heard an interview with someone like that) are fine. Meaning, they don't let it become their personality and chief impulse in life. And I guess by definition we wouldn't know who those guys are.
But it doesn't seem to be many of them, does it?
this was painful and gross
@@Louis-wp3fq AGP is one of the more severe forms of narcissism. But i believe narcisissm can be dissolved. It is a lot of work. But it is worth it.
@@Louis-wp3fqyou trust a man who self reports that he is no longer completely obsessed with his fetish and it’s just in the background now? Ok
"I don't believe it's based on stereotypes, I'm famiilar with the GC arguments about that, I'm not going to try and explain how it isn't based on stereotypes…”
“It’s not based on stereotypes but I also chose my public username after a term for a young girl.”
well the man in the dress said so🤡
So, why comment at all.
"People can be wrong about themselves" :). Yes. Exactly this.
40:46 "I don't think drvgs or p0rn are *necessary* for it to arise…"
Interesting phrasing. In an interview with Boyce, Phil mentioned an experience in his own life involving entheogens and a Lady Gaga concert, which apparently had something to do with him becoming aware of his "woman inside"…
Almost all of these men are drug addicts. Well, addicts outside of their addiction to synthetic estradiol. Most of them are heavily into drugs and alcohol - look at HontraPoints. Many of them use psychedelics.
I find they tend to have a split reaction - I’ve seen some troons say that they looked in the mirror and saw the ogres they really are. Others said that they ~*~gained insight into their female identity~*~. Regardless, I don’t think it’s the drugs themselves. I think it’s that they are the type of men to believe this New Age hippy bullshit *and* is continually changing their brain chemistry.
Anyway, I agree with you. Phil, like all AGPs, is a compulsive liar who alters his story to make it easier to swallow. I’m guessing he got pushback for saying he did drugs and felt like a lady? Now he’s changing? Interesting. So manipulative….
*Edit:* Out of curiosity, did he specify which ethenogen? Initially I thought “maybe he took a drug that made him horny and to him that’s being a woman”. Like, party drugs. Apparently ethenogens are used for spiritual practice, so it’s not a party drug. But why take a headtrip at a pop music concert? Also, a pop music concert? Is he trying to be a gay man or a teenaged girl? Either way, sh!t taste in music. Typical AGP. At least it wasn’t SevverSlvt.
Only a narcissist takes some molly and connects with himself instead of the people he’s with 😂
How's that narcissistic? @achickie39
@@achickie39no introverts do that too
As a a parent of a struggling young adult autistic inexperienced son I welcome exploration of any option that doesn’t include medicalization. Put back the gatekeepers and fully stop GAC. Let them wear whatever and express themselves freely within legal social boundaries and get them healthy non woke therapy!
Y’all are all nuts. Can we go back to the 80-90’s and be normal again?
lol your talking about time travel while calling everyone else nuts. Gen X = simpler people that want simpler solutions
@@EmmsRealityat this point time travel seems reasonable. We can just say it exists and it does, right?
@@EmmsReality Time travelling away from these insane people is a very sane option.
I definitely think for all its faults public shaming kept a lid on this kind of individual. Illy lives in Portland so his claims of not recieving pushback from women feeling uncomfortable or men mocking or threatening him is believable. They are basket cases, but in my neck of the woods, a very down to earth, working class, ex coal mining and heavy industry town in the North of the UK he still would most definitely recieve "pushback." He'd be mocked in the street, ppl would throw stuff at him, tell him to GTF away if he lingered near women's spaces and such, in short it would be an uncomfortable experience for him.
Ppl are not stupid, they can tell the difference between say, a man who's part of a subculture where dressing in a more gender non conforming way is the norm such as New Romantics or glam rockers did and between effeminate gay men dressing flamboyantly.
Neither of those two groups are dressing as women in public to indulge a sexual fetish. AGPs are and that is what ppl find distasteful, involving others in their arousal as unwilling participants. Others responses to them dressed as a woman is part of the thrill.
We need to make "kink shaming" great again! Keep it in your bedroom or your clubs.
These fetishists seized the chance to emerge from the shadows that self ID offered them and they DO NOT want to go back in the closet. They can no longer avoid talking about AGP so now they try and normalise and minimise it. They know that the sympathy many had for the classic dysphoric transexual will not extend to accomodating fetishists like them in women's spaces so they are trying to rebrand it as an "orientation" instead of what it is, a sexual fetish, a paraphilic disorder.
Men have always done this, I grew up watching male drag queens on tv. We had one in parliament while I was a teen, it's just now that policy and language is changing to be inclusive of them, but while trying to include them in the sex they want to be they have pushed people out of sports, jobs, and geender specific place like bathrooms.
“I wouldn’t be surprised if autogynephilic men are less likely to find extra partners”.
Did he actually do research for his book? Trans women are notoriously poly, it’s basically a meme at this point because it’s so common.
And, more depressingly, when I was still with my AGP ex and in trans partner support groups, all the women who stayed were coerced into being in open relationships. The women who did not open the relationship got cheated on (I’m one of them).
I'm sorry to hear your experiences. I'll agree with you there. I'm an agp trans woman, and dating other agp trans women is pretty damn difficult, since most are poly, and i just want a monogamous relationship leading to marriage. Glad I found my girlfriend who's a natal woman.
Not all are. Im an AGP and i'vr only ever had 1 sexual partner
If the goal of Mr Illy was to convey how completely non- narcissistic, non- fetishy, non- pretentious and not creepy at all his preoccupation with himself in a dress was, then I am sorry to inform him, he failed on all four. And some.
The good part is that he states that AGP is a real thing. Not to mention that this category of men is the main group that created & aggressively push gender ideology.
Phew. Thank God women see through this trash. I hate when I see women coddling these freaks out of pity. True handmaid behaviour. Thankfully, people here seem smart and onto Phil’s grossness.
how can something that you have no choice in having be classed as pretentious?
100%
@@bepitanlol cause it is a choice
Well, he certainly seems to have backflipped significantly on how porn plays a role in creating trans identities. Previously, in an interview with Benjamin Boyce he made a throwaway comment on how porn is big driver for transness. It was a failing of Benjamin not to jump on this comment and press Phil further. Especially as he has obiously realised realised how fetish like that makes the whole notion of trans identified men and wishes to change his story. Shock horror.
i gave ben an F- there too
How come we never hear from women who identify as men and are apparently turned on by that. Why is that?
Their condition is not analogous to autogynephilia.
Because women do not have a male sex drive compelling them. It's a powerful force, and when it goes wrong, it often goes very wrong.
Because the female analogue to autogynephilia is much rarer than Phil believes it to be. It exists, but not in the numbers that autogynephilia does for MtFs.
Probably because women are conditioned to not openly speak about sex and their own sexual interests. Women can go for decades being completely ignorant to what they find sexually appealing. But we do know that female sexuality is incredibly diverse and complex when they are allowed to explore it.
Buck Angel perhaps?
When he says women are not a threat to me- it sent chills down my spine because I’ve always thought this to be about domination of females.
I believe he quite enjoys knowing that women aren’t a physical threat but he’ll never escape the deep down psychological threat (perceived and understood in childhood) of women.
people who are gay don't need to learn about the concept of homosexuality to experience it - why would the "autoandrophilic" chunk of the TIF cohort need to learn about the concept in order to "understand" their experience?
He really wants us to believe women do this too because that way he thinks he will look less like the raging, obviously male, perv he is
They could learn about what causes homosexuality but the gay lobby much like the trans lobby have successfully suppressed scientifically led explorations.
What? Even today tons of gay christians in absolute denial try to pray their gay away, or go to their pastor to expel demons from them. Worst example I can imagine, literally no difference than the current church of gender lmao
your questions, focus, and follow--up responses to Phil are excellent. Appreciate your pov
I admittedly cringed when I saw this thumbnail in my feed. I was surprised that Stephanie would interview him as I've seen his interviews with Benjamin Boyce and found his theories pretty incoherent. However, this was an interesting interview and I gained even further admiration of Stephanie's ability to gently and respectfully push back on other people's ideas. I'm sure this is very useful in her work as a therapist. From other comments it seems like some would like greater push back or argument on things that don't add up, but in my opinion this strategy does a better job of information gathering and maintaining a conversation. It's more subtle in the way it illuminates inconsistencies and problems in ideas, but it does accomplish this
Thank you! This has to be one of my favorite comments yet.
@sometherapist Glad that you saw my comment! I really appreciate your podcast and your style of communication.
@@sometherapistThey were seriously some good questions. I had the same reaction to watching this. Pointed but neutral to draw out the subject.
Oh wow, Phil's conception of bisexuality is quite something. Does he feel that homosexual people are also in some way autoheterosexual and acting out hetero scripts with their same sex partner?
And I may have misunderstood, I suppose I wonder how common how believes that to be. Or is this more just the pseudobisexuality I've heard about AGPs engage in as part of the fetish of 'being a woman'
Thank you so much Stephanie for these interviews though, I appreciated hearing Phil's idea with some pushback. His way of answering was very illuminating. I don't have any strong opinion on Phil being at Genspect or dressig how he wants (though I understand and respect why others did) but I had heard him discussing his views on this a while back and was surprised to see genspect advertising his book as I'll admit I hadn't thought much of his philosophy back then. I tihnk we gotta talk about AGP but I'm not sure introducing Phil's somewhat confused/ing ideas is the way foward in the mainstream
I would maybe appreciate in furture more precise use of 'sex' 'gender' 'gender role' 'masculine/feminine' as I think it might help make better sense of things.
This idea of feminine/masculine essense puzzles me sometimes. I can't quite express it right but instead of having inner lets say femininity that then expresses outwardly through actions / behaivour, I would say we have all sort of various actions behaivours that once the world see them get sorted into fem/masc boxes. Depending on time and place conceptions of fem/masc would be different but my traits would be the same ? That's an oversimplification but hopefully that explains what I see.
FInally i was struck by phil mentioning some like high heels some like flats. Made me think of how men will fetishise any aspect of something sexistly associated with women, even if not stereotypically sexy/alluring. again just a start of a thought so not sure how best to express. But yes fetishing clothing as opposed to bodily functions (though men fetishes eg periods/pregnancy too!)
Anyway, thank you again Stephanie I really appreciate your interview style 🧡
1:28:50 I'm surprised Phil's schema doesn't attribute the L and the G in the acronym to autoheterosexuality too.
Maybe some of us gay men have a meta-autoheterosexual orientation to ourselves as men with androphilic female gender identities.
Here I thought I was a same-sex attracted male, maybe I'm actually a male with an autoandrophilic female inner spirit after all.
🙄
😂 👏🏽
Yeah. It’s almost as if he’s desperately making excuses for why his disgusting fetish is less reprehensible than the others. Sorry, bro, dressing up like a schoolgirl and calling yourself a slut is not a sexual orientation.
@@wormwoodcocktail yes it is bro! Grow up and stop the hate. You people are just anti-science, anti-exploration and anti-male. Phil speaks the truth and you hate him because of it.
And you don't understand sexuality at all. Phil illy is too advanced for you-all to graspe. Because you are caught up with emotional thinking whereas Phil is factual and scientific.
Being gay or lesbian is innate, this dude explains that this was a compulsive behavior he didn’t even realize he had until later in life. Not born this way. Stop comparing my sexuality to a fetish/kink.
🤯
Informative.
Not a fan of agps.
Thank you Stephanie for this revealing interview
You wanna know the truth about AGPs? I got several playlists of other peoples’s content on my channel. Or you could Google Ed Gein.
The bathroom and change room, sports as well as scholarships are the number one concerns of women... We are not just going to chill out.... I want to know if this man uses women's bathrooms I don't believe he answered that question.
Stephanie your comments around the 1:35:00 about healthy integration/ expression of the masculine within the feminine and vice versa are really important. This is where true healing lies imho.
No one can discuss this without referring to regressive stereotypes. Like they are good thing. No man can "feel like a woman" or vice versa. All a person can do is adopt regressive stereotypes.
I’m pretty sure you have never experienced prostatic orgasm…
There are AGPs who idealize extremely masculine women. It isn't about "regressive stereotypes" more so as it is emulating the types of women we're attracted to.
@@jovazquez6102it’s about regressive stereotypes or co-opting being a “butch lesbian” (which no man can be). You’ll never be a woman, we see through you, and we don’t claim you. Stop deluding yourself and do something meaningful with your life instead of pursuing the impossible
Agreed. At the most, a man can FEEL like he feels like a woman. But he can't know what it means to feel like a woman. We just ARE. We are women. We are our bodies. Some have discomfort in their gender, and even THAT is being a woman, regardless of feeling.
I think this is where we may have finally found "the line" in all these thoughtful discussions of gender and gender ideology. I'm not angry with Phil, but I think he's probably wrong, and I can't follow where his thinking would take us.
We shouldn't be worry about where things take us, we should wonder if his points are accurate as is.
Oh that love of oneself as a woman translated into loving women. What a wonderful world it would be.
It would. It's seems we now have the reverse
@@clairhonnor6211they love themselves “as women” and hate women
34:01 he probably isn't going to mention it, but his definition of sexual orientation would necessarily include pædophiliα…
Agreed
Though I changed my mind a little recently after having studied pedophilia as much as I could in the last decade or so.
Trying to find how to actually avoid child abuse, I started to look at adequate therapies. Nothing works universally on offenders. Yet, James Cantor, sexologist, has written about it & it was as much interesting as triggering. As a result, I quite believe that we may call any sexual drive/arousal a specific sexual orientation.
The point with pedophilia is that it is absolutely forbidden, taboo & goes with a huge social cost.
I’m more into believing that a great proportion of pedos are decent ppl (not sociopaths/psychopaths) & we do need to provide therapies to non offenders so that they don’t offend, which is the ultimate goal.
Yet, I don’t believe AGP is a preexisting condition. It sounds paradoxal but we know how AGPhilic men get into their kink through porn. This is not a proven point for pedoP, although still debated.
There’s also the nurture POV & this is an important point in pedophilia when an estimated third of offenders were abused.
To go back to the topic, AGPs are in no way trans(exual). They are fetishistic transvestites. Their motives are radically different & they represent a greater danger to women & kids since fetishists tend to have other paraphilias.
@@Souxie123Gail Dines showed that men who abuse children are not born attracted to minors. They’re sadists who get off on breaking the most vulnerable people possible. That’s it. Unsurprisingly, there’s a huge overlap between being a “””””MAP””””” and being an AGP. Many “MAPs” do autoerotic behaviours like dress up in a girl’s pair of panties, or a Boy Scout uniform. Same loathsome trash.
I was waiting for that to come up explicitly.
@@Souxie123Do we "know" these people get into their kink through porn? How would we tell the difference between that and men who have a kink and therefore are into the weird porn because of the kink?
I know it's troubling to imagine people might exist who have this kink through no fault of their own. But the "sissification" porn is unlikely be to be literally hypnotizing and changing anyone. It's just a fetish that AGPs are drawn to.
@@Louis-wp3fq I feel like that's a huge blind spot in the radfem pushback against the trans movement. Assuming that the porn causes the fetish, instead of considering why the hell the porn exists in the first place.
I started struggling with AGP at around 10 years old. I would get aroused at wanting to be a girl, I would get aroused wearing my mom’s clothes. I was a kid, zero porn exposure, zero sex exposure since I was a virgin. I also grew up in Christian family - it’s wasn’t taught, learned through porn, none of this. It was innately me - I was born with it. As I aged I did branch out into other unhealthy things to express suppressed feelings but at the core it was there at birth. If i knew what I know more as a kid I would have transitioned early in life but at this point it’s more complicated it’s like trading one set of issues for another. But if we learn anything about this I hope that we learn it is innate - people are born with it and the only thing that varies after that in individuals is the degree of intensity and how it manifests which will ultimately determine what behavior they’ll engage in to satisfy their innate orientation. Also I’m undiagnosed but pretty sure I’m autistic and my parents are of the type that Jesus fixes everything so they never really even tried solving signs of that. Lastly the trans community tried to debunk AGP but literally 70% of trans are agp. All these things would of been really useful to me a few decades ago and would of drastically increased the quality of my life
I think a more Freudian angle would be helpful. You don't know that you were 'born with it' ; it may arise as the result of an unresolved Oedipal conflict.
@@matthewapsey4869 Freud is extraordinarily out of date and rarely applicable anymore.
@@nicolina1026right, like I can't believe people still turn to Freud, extremely out of date
Even if you were born with the fetish to pretend to be a woman - which I don’t believe, because why would you be? Just because you hadn’t seen porn yet doesn’t mean you had ZERO influence on your sexuality. As a ten year old boy you had a DECADE of messaging telling you that women were supposed to be submissive sex objects. But even if you were born with that fetish? That’s still you being a man. That’s you being a man with a fetish. How dare you whine that you wish you’d transitioned earlier when your belief that you’re a woman is based on the fact that it TURNS YOU ON to imagine yourself as one? You are the absolute last man any woman wants to share space with. Stop deluding yourself. You will never be a woman. Go find something useful to do with your life that isn’t your obsession with your d1ck
@@janinebrittanica4314 I used to live not far from his house and visited. Its a museum now of course. A dog wandered in one day and with Freud having been a dog lover it seemed unfitting to turf him out, so he just stayed. In later years though he got a touch of senility and would wander rooms where he shouldn't at night and set the burglar alarms off. He'd also wander off for a walk down the high street and ppl would call the museum to come and get him. It was decided he would sleep in the live in caretakers flat at night because of the alarms. He achieved minor fame when a BBC documentary introduced him to the masses as the new board argued over whether the museum should really be paying for his vet bills and who actually owned this dog, if anyone.
Vistor numbers saw a big uptick as many came to see the good boi.
1:05:30 most FTMs are not autoandrophilic. Women are much less likely than men to have paraphilias and we are not as motivated by erotic desire to make drastic changes to our lives. It’s honestly pretty silly for Phil to project his experience of male sexuality onto women when we simply experience sexuality differently.
Most FTMs are ROGD with a smaller HSTS chunk and an even smaller autoandrophilic portion. Genuine paraphilias in women are rare and even those who envy gay couples often do so mainly because they want to escape misogyny.
Women can definitely have paraphilias but perhaps it is more underground because it is more socially acceptable for men to be open about this kind of thing.
Very interesting convo! It’s nice to hear all different views, even ones I disagree with. I think you did a good job pushing back without being combative.
Interesting conversation ~~
AGP groups says they know porn consumption was the catalyst. They even have porn support groups. They said they never felt that way until they got into porn.
everytime I think I get it, there's some other thing. I can't even wrap my head around this stuff anymore. Confusion is the new rebellion.
It's important to confuse people because it greases the way to authoritarianism.
People are complex. It’s ok. No harm no foul. Sexuality is creative. We have been repressed for centuries. Now we have the opportunity to explore. Let’s not criticize what we don’t understand.
I find it confusing and fascinating. So much I don’t understand. It’s ok!
Asking an agp to explain his fetish is like asking a person with active delusions to explain their reasoning. If you want to learn about AGP, listen to the women they terrorize
Great conversation. Phil really helped me understand my confusion over the "sources of trans genderism" - I realised the different camps hold different views of the reasons, but didn't know the split revolved around belief or non-belief in Blanchard and Cantor's work. I think if we as a society can learn to think of AGP as inborn, same as we have with homosexuality, we can have a better conversation about the ways AGP men can be helped to fit into society. We don't need to give in to their every demand, but conversation on the basis of mutual understanding is always more productive.
Why would we believe that this sexist fetish is in born, like homosexuality? This is a man who gets turned on by dressing like a woman. WHY should anyone believe that’s innate? If you trust this man, YOU’RE TOO TRUSTING.
They should not feel comfortable fitting in with society in their fetish gear. Period
51:02 Isn't the trouble with such rabbit holes that they tend to carry the person to a much more extreme place, which then in turn makes everything a lot worse then it would have been if the person at least tried to manage whatever "demon" is nagging them?
My issue here is that while yes, this person will likely have trouble regardless ... that shouldn't be an excuse for going to a place that will certainly bring huge problems (when you could have had smaller ones).
It's like saying you have a propensity for getting fat, and you might be somewhat fat because of this, and then giving in to sin by taking jobs at McDonald's and the nearby ice cream parlor.
It really seems like a derivative of narcissism.
Fun fact! Did you know that autogynephilia is hugely overrepresented amongst serial killers, batterers, and molesters of women and girls? Did you know that “transwomen” are more likely to commit sex crimes against others compared to men without gender issues? So much fun!
NPD + way too much porn = AGP
More like ASD
@@achickie39what is NPD?
We all display a certain degree of narcisism. Which is even necessary to develop as an independent individual. But using simplistic labels applied to abusive and sociopathic people, we can easily slip up and miss judge many other types of people.
If it‘s soo AUTO, what for is the audience ( the public) needed? Why is it not enough to do the crossdressing privately/ a limited time? This part I don‘t understand. Why is validation needed by other people?
Do you need the acting out of fantasies 24/7 as AGP?? Why?
Is AGP a fulltime thing or is there a need that escalates with time?
Exactly. Why do they need to force other people to participate in their "orientation?" Answer: because it's a fetish.
@@Louis-wp3fq a paraphillia. Fetishes don't tend to take over ones entire lives. Paraphillias do.
Validation to feed the narcissist .
So critical of others and their “ignorance “.
The contribution of AGP to gender dysphoria in men is controversial. Bailey studied older men prior to the ROGD cohort. Phil is an expert on Phil.
People claiming it is a common contributor do not have the data to back it up. It's just their theory. We don't need more of those (thank you affirmative model...not). It is also often paired with the claim that AGP men who medically transition as adults are happy, ergo most men who have GD and are over 18 will be happy if they medically transition....tell that to Stephen Levine's first patient. Oh wait, you can't, he committed suicide, as did many of the men who medically transitioned and were given the courtesy of follow-up. "Works".
Thank you for your voice and your work!
ROGD does not significantly contribute to MtF gender dysphoria. Most of the "ROGD" adolescent males are autogynephilic .
At 35:12 okay her expression 😆 I almost think this guy phil lily is not for real and an art performance guy or a psy op agent. I mean he's supposed to be "off" but he's so dry it's like he's trolling now and will write his real book later, but that's what I thought about Dylan.
They effectively are Corporate Narcissists.
1:17:19 *EUREKA!*
That's exactly right, Phil! People can be wrong about themselves! People can tell themselves stories which make sense to themselves!
Maybe people can elaborate upon theories which serve to legitimate and justify the stories they tell themselves, maybe people can write entire books in service of the story they tell themselves, and convince themselves that science aligns with their story about themselves!
Yeah. He’s no different than other AGPs who say they have a woman’s brain. He’s slightly less crazy, I guess, but same bad science from a desperate man whose brain was boiled in dopamine and serotonin.
Does he wear arm warmers to hide cutting? ...Because what woman wears those, how are they feminine?
A lot of AGPs wear arm warmers. I don’t get it.
It hides arm hair.
They would be great at hiding track marks on his hands and arms.
I've consumed maybe 10 hours of Phil. His insight is welcomed and useful. However, I'd be inclined to say environmental factors (how your parents raised, or didn't raise you) play a significant roll in sexual orientation, it's that we simply take it for granted and perceive it as innate. There's still plenty that needs to be deciphered about all this . That said, thanks for sharing Phil. And thanks for hosting Stephanie. 🐿
Phil’s gross and so are people who make apologia for womanface.
LGB✂️TQ+
No way! Homosexual transexuals do belong in the LGBT community. We need to kick off these AGPs For sure
Sexual orientation is *literally* an orientation towards a SEX - and NOT GENDER Mr AGP Illy
Precisely. Same SEX attracted!
It's the orientation of sexual attraction.
Interesting interview, and given the current flap, very timely. Phil Illy seemed to me to be a man sitting in a room the walls of which he has entirely covered with images of his own porn-influenced imagination, and intelligently but naively describing this prison as the real world he mistakes it for.
I was visiting a friend and recording in a spare room in their house. Interesting to see where your mind went though!
@@autohetDo you and your friend discuss porn together, you sexist creep? Whatever excuse you convolute, I guess. No one expects Ed Gein to be honest.
@@autohetshe’s describing your mindset, not your physical space. Obviously
This is truly enlightening and shows this condition up for what it is. Well done for keeping your cool Miss Winn x
This interview does not show you what autogynephilia is. Look up Ed Gein and how he murdered women and uncovered graves to make a woman suit. That’s autogynephilia. You know what else autogynephilia is? Jerry Brudos. Russell Williams. Randy Stair. Dana Rivers. Douglas Perry. Richard Speck.
This guy comes across as a narcissistic troll
Narcissistic? Yes. Troll? Unfortunately, he’s one of the most honest of his ilk.
Honest or not, if someone is open about narc. traits but then don't start to dissolve these issues then what will be the net worth in the end? O wait he now says in the interview he thinks it isn't narcissism, nuff said! One first has to be open to recognize and acknowledge and then proceed to work on it. After that we talk further
First rule of GC club - never Trust a Troon.
Never smile at an autogynephile!
Around sex pests, never rest!
Should be a blanket rule for all women
my boyfriend in the 80s liked to wear my dresses
This only got worse 🤢
Definitely some very off putting parts of this interview and you can tell that Stephanie feels a tad uncomfortable in some spots. But there is some very deep and interesting other topics with in this discussion if you push through especially the animal thing.
I see your confusion. And this is NOT an orientation.
AGP Is as heritable as a foot fetish.
And those things are as heritable as the orientation towards a favourite colour.
We can argue that the drive of preference is heritable, as in evolutionarily - but the end preference is NOT.
I totally agree that there is a pattern agreement between ocd and gender dysphoria.
But ultimately AGP IS driven by narcissim - how one reasons that a sexual attraction/ self love is not narcissim with a straight face I cannot fathom.
And the motivating force particularly in AGP is driven by the desire to dominate.
And in AGP - that is driven by the relationship between child and domineering mother.
minor women?
The way he casually says "skeleton" and "torso" is so, I dunno... somebody with a badge and a respirator ought to check his crawl space
45:24 watching him stumble through the explanation of sissy hypno porn. He owns the fact that it is over the top and unhealthy, yet seems to defend it because others of the same type of mind 🤔.
What a classic white dude.
Hmmm surprised (and disappointed) that no mention of prostatic orgasm. Phil?
Activist.
Not a Phil fan.
There’s something about a guy who looks like Buffalo Bill choosing his pseudonym based on it’s use as a colloquial term for young girls. Barf.
@wormwoodcocktail huh?? Phil Illy is a play on -philia, as in autogynephilia
@@wormwoodcocktail I was thinking exactly the same thing! He's a creep 🤢
the person on the right is missing something .. can tell
Blanchard’s research was a bit of a joke. He was a sexologist so it makes sense that he would define Trans purely in terms of sex. We know a lot more now and we know that sexuality can and does change following transition. I agree it’s very superficial (including Blanchard’s research).
if blanchard never researched this or coined the phrase agp would that mean it doesn't exist?..what would you call this thing that males experience?
Self reported sexual orientation change is predicted by the autogynephilia model. This is because most autogynephiles are bisexual-adjacent, so the "bi-cycling" comes across as sexual orientation change.
We know sexual orientations in natal males are stable over time though.
Oh dear.....
He "has an *_excellent_* male skeleton" & "had an *_excellent_* male body, with an abdomen (he says was) like a Greek statue".... says it all, really. :-/
Narcissistic, much.... 😅
I'm not sure that colour suits him.
So I am just standing by, waiting until this stoopid crap goes away
I can't see how this has anything to do with being trans. Having a different way of experiencing sexuality doesn't change your sex from male to female
Kink
He is not even trying. What the hell is he wearing for a casual interview. Ridiculous
Don’t you know that this is what being a woman is. Choosing the right dress.
Don’t buy this. Don’t buy AGP. Let’s just go back to TVs and Ts in the simplest way. Prefer Az Hakeem.
Being a woman is about her spirit self, her smell, how she feels, how she tastes, her emotional life.
Women are adult human females, you gross old man.
Do you prefer them boiled? Or fried?
Being a woman means being a female human being who survived to adulthood. That’s it. Anything else you ascribe to womanhood is pure sexism.
And being a man youd know right? No its about being the oppoosite of what u are its something u cannot change its the way youre born if u have a vagina youre a woman a penis a man its pretty simple....
The only people who ever talk about how a woman “feels” is men.
Gross. I won't be watching the blue dress guy.
One could say that this goes back to the ancient Egyptian God, Atum, the god of creation who was both male and female.
No this is a product of autistic men like Phil with access to too much online anime pornography.
These guys all fail to grasp that women don’t wear cocktail gowns and matching arm gloves for a podcast.