I have both, here are my thoughts: 1-magnification is a necessity for the civilian minute man, regardless of geographic location. 2-want a longer range gun that can also do close range? LPVO. Want a CQB gun that can do long range? RD+Mag. 3-Train. Train. Train. With what you have. And then train more.
@@ronaldraygun2639 that's even more reason to ask. Especially now that credit card companies are keeping record of gun/ammo purchases. Less you have on your cards the better
If you look at the WWII sniper scopes, they were all low power. There is a reason for that. At 4X you can get on target quickly. 10X is not for quick acquisition.
I have always been a fan of the flip up magnifier and red dot, however, I have some of my customer builds where we are running an LPVO and a 45 deg mounted red dot. It has been working pretty well. But at the end of the day, I still prefer the flip up magnifier.
After having the romeo and juliet combo and the tango lpvo. I use my combo on my Stribog and the LPVO on my tavor X95. LPVO works better if you got a 16in barrel. The tango is a true 1X so i acts as both and for close quarters its way more comfortable and convenient to have a small combo also has less weight.
Using an LVPO with a micro dot on it like this one, you can have the scope set to a high magnification, quickly draw up the dot sight onto the target, and rotate to the scope to have the target already in view at long range. It's quicker than just using the scope and having to look around with it to find the target since it's set to such high magnification. It's quicker than flipping up a magnifier and re-aiming, and quicker than using the throw lever.
Or, even better, use the bindon aiming concept. makes LPVOs and ACOGs just as viable in CQB as a red dot. As long as your LVPO has an illuminated reticle.
Yes, please post a prism video! I have a prism (for slight astigmatism) and just picked up a red dot. I just need to go zero the red dot. I want to see your breakdown of comparisons and applications of the two. Great post!
@@jeanlain9442 great firearm, but just a heavy stick without ammo .. I liked Kalashnikov usa giveaway... gun and 2k ammo.. plus other items . I traded 1k ammo for another gun ... ammo should be part of every giveaway imo right at this time ... Ps , I wasn't going to shoot the kr103 , but damn it's sweet ... Pss hows that for a flex? Have to brag. It was an awesome win. . Would love to win any of classic giveaways ... but I'm not too greedy .. Psss I miss big Ben... he needs to do a cameo imo And met him in person, im not a small guy but he really is a big dude ..
I have both. The more I use them the more I prefer the lpvo by a slight margin. When I quickly zoom from 1 to 6 power I stay aimed in and zoom with my left hand to prevent fishing around for the target .
I was a res dot guy for EVER but I've forced myself to do long range, and cqb with an lpvo....and I've got it down. With a aluminized reticle the eye relief in my vortex is the same I have on my sig dot. Even with my weak side.
As someone previously mentioned, I think that the pistol builds would benefit more with the red dot/magn combo over an lpvo just by muzzle flash alone. Also taking into consideration of just how much simpler it is to use red dots over an lpvo when a new or inexperienced person enters the game, regardless of the scenario. It is much more beneficial to be able to quickly pick up a firearm and successfully engage targets with a red dot(point and shoot) than it would be for someone trying to decipher, what appears to be the Davinci Code, reticles in some lpvo optics. I have all red dots with no magnifiers(yet), and I've really been wanting a good budget friendly lpvo. It all boils down to preference and charachter as usual of which one to choose.
I have a 1x prism because astigmatism. It's much faster than a lpvo but not quite as fast or forgiving as a red dot. Great eye relief but not unlimited. However it can run without batteries. Mitigates the need for backup irons. Though redundancy is always good Currently debating on a 3x or 5x magnifier
A 1-6 LPVO fulfills both roles really well. Granted the downside is eye relief is not as good as a dot but training can mitigate that issue. Also “PUSH THE LPVO”
But how good is your shot placement at 200 yards with a red dot thats what needs to be tested in the vs. Battle . Short range scenarios and having to switch to like 300 yards
Marines (self call out, salty old school boot camp 1995) have been running ZERO magnification on M-16s all the way up to 500 meters for years until the adoption of ACOGs. To me, 3 to 4 power magnification is all I need all the way to 600 to 800 meters (AR-10). You have to be able to shoot and not completely rely on high power scopes ( 5 and up magnification) as a crutch. These things can break/fail in the heat of combat. More people should switch out training between iron sights and magnified assistance to be a better prepared and balanced shooter.
Most people arent gunfighting. They are target shooting. So many turds on ever gun video talking about combat. Unless you are PMO, PMG, LEO, or special operator. Most special operators dont use personal guns, its bought through the unit and armorer and typically uniform across the unit. 90% of shooters will never have to worry about being in the field, or multiple combat engagements. Shoot what you can afford and are comfortable with. Stop pretending you are in constant combat and need to be ready.
Marines 88-92. Lol there were no optics. I still managed 7 of 10 in the black at 500yds. Now it took some time to get aimed in for each shot. (But not more than 60 seconds from one to the next, obviously. or at least, that was back in the day. IDK what kind of qual the Corps does now.) I'd be curious to see what it looks like with just a 3 or 4x magnifier. Right now I just run (and have been since 08) an EOtech with flip up irons that are also zeroed, and that I can use through the EOtech if it becomes non-functional. (Having said that I have beaten the sh!t out of my EOtech and it's never flinched on me. I have a Leupold Mark 4 CQ/T that was gifted to me back in 08 as well, but have never used it. But like one or two other comments here, I find it easy to be off center and get the tunnel shadow if you're shooting and moving hard. Anyhoo... peace.
I use a 1-6 LPVO on my 16" 5.56 carbine and a red dot with 3X mag on my 10.5" 300BO pistol. I'm finding I don't often use the 3x mag since most shots are 100 yds or less.
I think that's a good rule of thumb but for me it is more about the situation. When I go on a drive hunt I find my LPVOs too slow: fast moving deer close by and small eye relief. Red dot is much better. For normal hunting my LPVOs are better. On my home defense pistols I have red dots.
I enjoyed the video but I believe that comparing a magnifier with an LPVO is not the right way to approach these systems. A better approach would be when to chose one vs. the other. I run both systems and they clearly have advantages and disadvantages when comparing one against the other. The red dot/magnifier makes a lot of sense for an operator that does not aspire to shot long-distances. If shooting long-range and/or sub-moa at 100 yards the LPVO is the clear winner. Another consideration would be the rifle set-up. It makes no sense to mount an LPVO on a rifle/pistol that is not precise and/or capable to benefit from the additional magnification. If I could only have one system it would definitely be the LPVO since it offers more versatility and capability. Great eye-relief at 1x for fast target acquisition and equipped with a bipod offers the precision to take accurate shots at greater distances. A strong case can also be made for the red dot/magnifier if the intended use is home defense with an occasional trip to the range to shot steel! Keep up the good work and try to get some time behind the ATCR 1-8. It is definitely my first choice with the Vortex 1-10 being a close second.
Hello @Duda4711 . I usually hunt pigs at 30-40 meters. Sometimes I hunt at 80-100 meters, I need a magnifying glass to take this shot more clearly. What do you suggest me? 1-6x24 or reddot+magnifier?
@@golgemotovlog9428 At 30-40 meters the red dot is the clear winner. At 80-100 both the LPVO and the red dot/magnifier will serve you really well. If 100 meters is the max range you will engage I would go with the red dot/magnifier for sure. Even with a 3X magnifier you will be able to positively ID your target out to 200 meters without a problem.
I prefer a magnifier, but if I could only have one OR the other, I'd prefer the LPVO just because the lpvo can do 90% of what a red dot can and then some, while the red dot and mag can't do 90% of what the LPVO can do. Little bit more versatile, if you're willing to sacrifice some speed and comfort.
Great video and discussion points. A better solution: Buy 2 AR's Put an LVPO on one Put a magnifier and red dot on the other. I have a holosun on a fast mount with an Aimpoint magnifier on my AR pistol On my 16" rifle I have the Swamp fox Arrowhead 1-10. Red dot is much faster for clearing a home.Just my opinion though
While I have tried magnifier setups on other people's rifles, I have never owned one myself. Aimpoint rifles have irons as well, ACOG rifle is just the optic, and my first LPVO setup I put together for my daughter is again just the optic. It's fun to try out different things.
You get the same thing with both because they both have a separate red dot and magnifier but with Lpvo you can have the extra option of many different magnifications opposed to just 3 power
I love my etched red,lpvo! Never ran a magnifier I would like to try it out, maybe on my 10 inch AR would be good option. My lpvo is on my 16 inch gun.
Love the comparison of two Great systems, but I think a better setup would have been a more open landscape with short range, medium and long range targets, show how accurate the 10x can reach at 200 yds, 300 yds etc. I think each system has its pros/cons, just depends on your expected engagement distances
Tried out a Swampfox 1-10x and a Holosun H3MX/510c combo...greatly preferred the latter, though I can definitely see the benefit to the former. Came down to eye box and scope shadow. They just kill me, man. Having the ability to move my head around if necessary to make less than ideal shots is really useful. And I love the versatility of the magnifier/dot. The sheer boost in situational awareness plus weight savings with the QD mount is a godsend. But, hey, if you're going for a recce build- LPVO is probably where you'll find the best bang for your buck. Personally, going to give a PA Cyclops 1x prism with the aforementioned HM3X a look to try and solve some astigmatism issues as well as free up some rail space from the no longer 'necessary' BUIS.
Very informative video. Based on personal choices/situation im choosing the red dot/magnifier for now but an lvpo is definitely an option for a precision rifle setup in the future.
We had a few Schmidt & Benders in my unit in the 82nd, few and far in between but they were on the property books for sure (2019). the 4X ACOG was a little more prevalent, but not nearly as much as the CCO (red dot/COMP M4). I personally never got to use the LPVO, but I remember it didn’t look new by any stretch of the imagination. Which tells me that they had them for at least a few years. I always wondered why I never saw more of them.
I’m running a swampfox 1-10 with an offset justice on a arisaka mount on my 16” and a eotech with magnifier on my 13.7”. I have to say I feel more comfortable running the eotech and magnifier as opposed to the beefier lpvo.
Great video! Love the versatility of the mag/red dot combo that also allows you to run irons for some “back to the basics” plinking. It’s great that the rear sight can fit nice and cozy under that mag no problem 😉 (Ruger AR-556 MPR, Sig Romeo4h/Juliet4 mag+dot, Magpul MOE vert grip 😇)
i love the idea. ill throw you for a loop. i have a stigma in my eyes. lights bleed. even when i turned the dot down in brightness my eyes dont like light. LPVO it is for me. also i sold my red dot due to that fact. i also have the ruger mpr
When in it comes to precision shooting 100-300m I prefer my lpvo, for tactical (moving /changing distances) the holographic and magnifier are my favourite. As always it depends what you ar up to
Hello @la0660 . I usually hunt pigs at 30-40 meters. Sometimes I hunt at 80-100 meters, I need a magnifying glass to make these shots more clearly. What do you recommend me, 1-6x24 or reddot + magnifier? Thank you for your answer.
@golgemotovlog9428 for hunting I would always go with a scope 1-6x is fine. In hunting scenarios I prefer max flexibility for most situations. Plus Redot battery can go empty then the sights are totally useless
Typically most people are not shooting past 200 yards in any situation unless you are active military deployed overseas. In a SHTF situation it will be CQB or urban warfare. The only other time you would want an LPVO is if you are doing competitive shooting that consists of close and long distance. The red dot and LPVO is best for 90% of us and you can shoot quicker and from odd positions with no parallax as well which is very important.
Magnifiers are cool and definitely have a place but they're somewhat outdated. Personally I'm going to run a prism with an offset red dot, LPVO with an offset red dot, or just a red dot with backup irons... Great video brother keepem coming!!!
how are they outdated? can you explain? are eotechs and acogs outdated as well? just curious please explain with documented proof cause i will take acogs and eotech+magnifier over red dots and lpvo
@@brighthought11 ACOGs are prism optics even though I don't like ACOGs one of my favorite optics for AR15s is a prism optic.... Try not to get so butthurt my guy or making yourself sound like an idiot. LOL I specifically said I like a prism optic with an offset red dot and your mad because you like ACOGs so that makes me believe you're talking out your ass and have no clue what an ACOG (prism optic) is other than what you see on a video game...
That's why my LPVO is a 1-6x24. I have the same basic setup but with a lower power. I really like it but I do want to set up one with the red dot/magnifier combo too.
Thanks for doing this video! You have helped me to finally resolve this endless debate I’ve been having with myself for months. I know what I’m going to do now. I’ll do the magnifier/holographic combo on my AR-15, and on my AR-10 I’ll use an LPVO. 👍🤘
I would like to see a 1×4 or a 1×6 LPVO with Red Dot and without Red Dot vs a Red Dot and Magnifier. In my opinion a 1x10 is way over kill for targets up to 200yds. A 1×4 to 1x8 would be much better for targets out to 200yds. I would also like to see a straight 3 or 5 power prism scope like the Burris or similar thrown in with the test. A 5 power prism scope with a red dot may just be the ultimate optics for targets out to 200 yds.
I'm always gonna be of the mind that the benefits/drawbacks of either setup are dictated by the type of engagement. If yiu have time to get your zoom "just right" then an LPVO makes a whole lot of sense. If you need to go from no zoom to more zoom with no thought or adjusting, flipping over the magnifier is faster and less involved. I'd say LPVO for hunting, dot/holo w/magnifier for a combat/defense setup.
Using an LVPO with a micro dot on it like this one, you can have the scope set to a high magnification, quickly draw up the dot sight onto the target, and rotate to the scope to have the target already in view at long range. It's quicker than just using the scope and having to look around with it to find the target since it's set to such high magnification. It's quicker than flipping up a magnifier and re-aiming, and quicker than using the throw lever.
Thank you for the great video. I bought my first magnifier in large part to your video. I can't wait to try it out. You are a awesome as well as Classic Firearms . . . again . . . I thank you . . .
I'm running a 1.25-4x24 VX-R PATROL on one rifle and a Remo 5 on a different rifle. Each has a pro and con. The lpvo is on my 3 Gun rifle, if that tells you something.
Honestly I feel like its just a preference thing here. I personally use a LPVO on my rifle, but I wouldn't be opposed to using a Red dot/ magnifier combo on something like my MK18. If I had to choose one or the other it would be a tuff choice. I think certain sights like Holographic sights are better for Urban combat and Close quarter stuff like building clearing and other situations where you need to get the gun up as fast as possible and stop a threat. But LPVO's in my opinion are better for longer range stuff. I also tend to like the reticle difference. Where as when you zoom in your reticle stays the same size vs, using a magnifier enlarges your reticle. I think this could be a potential problem especially when using NV because with NV you dont really want a super big bright reticle. I want as fine of a reticle as possible if I'm using NV. Another great thing about LPVO's is they usually don't NEED to have batteries to be usable. Where as red dots and holo's don't give you a reticle unless it has a battery in it. However I feel that LPVO's just aren't the best kind of optic for CQB stuff. I'm sure it can be used efficiently by someone who's well trained but a holo is going to work better in that department for most people.
Great video .. thank you .. but I think if you can just set the lpvo to 3 , and run it like that with the red dot combo, I think that would be a good comparison.
There is only one situation where I prefer a red dot over an lpvo and that is for my home defense gun where my wife may need to pick it up and use it, in that case the eye relief on the red dot makes it so any one can pick up the rifle and it will work, but in that situation I don't run a magnifier.
Came across your channel from a fellow solider and just can't be happier with the info provided. I know all the RUclips gun guys have their preferences and whatnot I provide some of the basics shown.
I'll take the red dot with the magnifier. The red dot is there for close stuff and field of view and the magnifier gives you positive ID at range along with the longer range capability over just a red dot. The draw-backs for the limited field of view with the LPVO are too significant in my opinion.
I'm building an AR9 for coyote and trying to decide what I want for glass. I'm thinking red dot is the way. I only need around 100/150 at best. Most shots are between 50/100 but a little magnification would help a lot.
I say LPVO for long range gun that you want to be able to use up close. And dot/magnifier combo for a short range gun you might want some extra range on. It comes down to what the rifle is for
Just wanted to say I appreciate your videos as they are very educational and you touch on important points that are applicable in the field. Again, much appreciated!
Can't run back up sights with a lpvo. I'll take my chances with the 3x magnifier so I can keep my back ups. Lpvos are nice don't get me wrong but if they break or get hit, you'll sol.
Have both, love both haha. I need glasses so the etched reticle in the LVPO makes me like it more because I can actually see it properly lol. I'd really like to try prism with the magnifier and see if I like it even more. Edit a year later: after shooting an eotech + magnifier and the lvpo's for awhile, I'd have to say if I know I'm not going for shots 200+, I'd just rather have the eotech magnifier combo. Downsides to lvpos for me.. Eye relief is annoying, parallax is real, and they are chonk. Only thing that they still have over the combo is that etched reticle, still love that.
Should be a standard, if you have a barrel length less than 16” inches. Then a red dot plus magnifier, more specifically for CQB. If barrel length is greater than 16” inches. Then a LPVO/Scope would be more suited to achieve the maximum distant acquisition from both of the optic and barrel. Just my two cents!
The only reason I would choose the LVPO over the magnifier with the red dot is running a thermal. They make a small thermal that is made to go in front of the LVPO and pair nicely.
That Swampfox scope mount with the high MRDO mount integrated into it, is perfect for DMRs with an adjustable/higher cheek weld. I tried to run a pair of offset XS XTI sights and couldn’t get my cheek down low enough for the offset iron sights...
How much of a difference in group size would you see between the the options at around 100 yds? I am assuming the LPVO is going to be more accurate but how well can you group shots with a magnifier and red dot at 100? Thanks!
I mean, at that yardage do you need any magnification? Seems like the LV is not built for that. I’m curious when keeping it in 1 power if it’s close to a Red dot
So I would love to see you run a 1x6 with a 45°offset so you won't have switch eyes. Not breaking your fore grip to change from being zoomed in at 150 yards to sighting 20yrds should always feel better with response time and target acquisition. the setup has a lot to do with how comfortable it feels.
If you had the Holosun 503G ACSS with said magnifier would you feel more comfortable going out to 500 or 600 over the LPVO? This is if you are in a fast moving environment, potentially being shot at and it being a must to shoot from odd angles
Don’t forget some people don’t use their right eyes for rifles.. I’m one of the weirdos who shoot my pistol with my left eye, but for some reason when I was young I trained myself through airsoft to use my right eye for rifles.. it’s super weird. My left eye sees better, but I still use my right for rifles. So for me, transferring from shooting with my right eye with a with a scope, to my offset red dot with my left eye is actually really easy.
only thing i would change with the setup if i was running it would be putting the red dot on top of the scope like past the dial so you don't need to have an aggressive cant if you want to keep your cheek weld
Cylee, shake awake, 2 moa dot with Feyachi 3x or 1.5x5 magnifier. They just work and don't break the bank! Figured I'd help yall out with the good budget stuff, since you won't hear affordable things on this gun snob channel.
If you're running iron sights co-witness with the reddot does it block or interfere with the magnifier. Does the AR15 fixed front sight interfere or block the LPVO at any power?
I’ve ran both. And to me the lpvo is better. Gives me a red dot/ holographic for up close, and long distance. I like my magnifier, but I don’t like the blocking of my vision when it’s hanging off to the side. A true 1x lpvo to me is best of both worlds. I got the Swampfox 1-10 and love it. This summer I found Tacticon. They had a 1-4 lpvo for $99! I bought one figured wtf, if it breaks oh well. It’s now my go to lpvo. Glass is crystal clear. True 1x. Etched reticle. And light weight. I still can’t believe how nice it is. I’ve only run about 400 rounds through it. And to me 4x is plenty. I love my swampfox and it’s 1-10, but anything over 5x to me is like looking through a telescope
Comparing eye relief on 3x magni, and LPVO set to 10 is a bit misleading. You Should compare 3x magni to LPVO set to x3 to get them on even ground. Eye relief will always be better on lower magnifications.
The LVPO with the angled red dot is super interesting for me being right handed and left eye dominant. I have to close my left eye when aiming down a sight. But with this I can do that for distance and then angle and keep both eyes open for the red dot. Mind blown and wallet open.
@Classicfirearms I'm going back to combat in the Ukraine in 26 days and am going to a different company that uses M4s with Aimpoint red dots from what I hear from my friend there, I've been trying to decide if I want an LPVO or just buy a magnifier like I'm thinking and this vid has really helped me be reassured with my decision. Thankyou
I have both, here are my thoughts:
1-magnification is a necessity for the civilian minute man, regardless of geographic location.
2-want a longer range gun that can also do close range? LPVO. Want a CQB gun that can do long range? RD+Mag.
3-Train. Train. Train. With what you have. And then train more.
If someone asks me what I want for Christmas, I ALWAYS say ammo.
Hell yea
Yo Imma bought to create it I hope
My wife asks me for something to buy me, I say 7.62x39.... She did get me 40rds during shutdowns, that was the limit.
I used to say ammo until California regulated it
@@ronaldraygun2639 that's even more reason to ask. Especially now that credit card companies are keeping record of gun/ammo purchases. Less you have on your cards the better
If you look at the WWII sniper scopes, they were all low power. There is a reason for that. At 4X you can get on target quickly. 10X is not for quick acquisition.
I have always been a fan of the flip up magnifier and red dot, however, I have some of my customer builds where we are running an LPVO and a 45 deg mounted red dot. It has been working pretty well. But at the end of the day, I still prefer the flip up magnifier.
Also, for AR pistols with a 15 to 12 inch barrel a holo and magnifier combo is pretty ideal.
After having the romeo and juliet combo and the tango lpvo. I use my combo on my Stribog and the LPVO on my tavor X95. LPVO works better if you got a 16in barrel. The tango is a true 1X so i acts as both and for close quarters its way more comfortable and convenient to have a small combo also has less weight.
Using an LVPO with a micro dot on it like this one, you can have the scope set to a high magnification, quickly draw up the dot sight onto the target, and rotate to the scope to have the target already in view at long range. It's quicker than just using the scope and having to look around with it to find the target since it's set to such high magnification. It's quicker than flipping up a magnifier and re-aiming, and quicker than using the throw lever.
If you're going to leave the LPVO at max power, why not just use a fixed power scope to save weight and cost and improve durability?
Just use an ACOG and red dot at that point lol
I see an lpvo as a long range tool with short range capability. Red dot is close range for the most par imo even with magnifier
Or, even better, use the bindon aiming concept. makes LPVOs and ACOGs just as viable in CQB as a red dot. As long as your LVPO has an illuminated reticle.
Yes, please post a prism video! I have a prism (for slight astigmatism) and just picked up a red dot. I just need to go zero the red dot. I want to see your breakdown of comparisons and applications of the two. Great post!
An ammo cache would make an excellent contest giveaway! Maybe 5000 rounds of various nato rounds 😉
Or at least make it a tradeable option. Maybe I want a gun. If I don't like the gun but win, I would like the rounds🤷🏼♀️
For real , ammo right now is better than a rifle with no ammo .it's a stick....
@@karllambert2350 well, that RPK a few giveaways ago is a big flex😰
@@jeanlain9442 great firearm, but just a heavy stick without ammo .. I liked Kalashnikov usa giveaway... gun and 2k ammo.. plus other items .
I traded 1k ammo for another gun ... ammo should be part of every giveaway imo right at this time ...
Ps , I wasn't going to shoot the kr103 , but damn it's sweet ...
Pss hows that for a flex?
Have to brag. It was an awesome win. .
Would love to win any of classic giveaways ... but I'm not too greedy ..
Psss I miss big Ben... he needs to do a cameo imo
And met him in person, im not a small guy but he really is a big dude ..
buncha bums acting like you could never stock up on ammo before or find it to this day
lazy and unprepared
A problem not often mentioned is optics friendly to people with astigmatism. Red dots often not but with LVPO yes.
I have both. The more I use them the more I prefer the lpvo by a slight margin. When I quickly zoom from 1 to 6 power I stay aimed in and zoom with my left hand to prevent fishing around for the target .
I was a res dot guy for EVER but I've forced myself to do long range, and cqb with an lpvo....and I've got it down. With a aluminized reticle the eye relief in my vortex is the same I have on my sig dot. Even with my weak side.
“What’s up bumble bee, don’t sting me plz” 😂😂
4:25 🤣
Bumble bees don’t sting though lol
As someone previously mentioned, I think that the pistol builds would benefit more with the red dot/magn combo over an lpvo just by muzzle flash alone. Also taking into consideration of just how much simpler it is to use red dots over an lpvo when a new or inexperienced person enters the game, regardless of the scenario. It is much more beneficial to be able to quickly pick up a firearm and successfully engage targets with a red dot(point and shoot) than it would be for someone trying to decipher, what appears to be the Davinci Code, reticles in some lpvo optics. I have all red dots with no magnifiers(yet), and I've really been wanting a good budget friendly lpvo. It all boils down to preference and charachter as usual of which one to choose.
Applies to every choice ever on everything regarding builds 💫
Get a Burris, it has a forever warranty and it is so crisp and clean. About 300$. Which is really damn good especially with the warranty.
I have a 1x prism because astigmatism. It's much faster than a lpvo but not quite as fast or forgiving as a red dot. Great eye relief but not unlimited. However it can run without batteries. Mitigates the need for backup irons. Though redundancy is always good
Currently debating on a 3x or 5x magnifier
I just got my sig sauer tango 1×6mm lpvo for $300. I love it!
-Clint: "I have some ammo left!" *BANG BANG BANG BANG*
-Me "I hope these reloads I bought for $45/round function in my rifle..." *SOFT SOBBING*
A 1-6 LPVO fulfills both roles really well. Granted the downside is eye relief is not as good as a dot but training can mitigate that issue. Also “PUSH THE LPVO”
But how good is your shot placement at 200 yards with a red dot thats what needs to be tested in the vs. Battle . Short range scenarios and having to switch to like 300 yards
Marines (self call out, salty old school boot camp 1995) have been running ZERO magnification on M-16s all the way up to 500 meters for years until the adoption of ACOGs. To me, 3 to 4 power magnification is all I need all the way to 600 to 800 meters (AR-10). You have to be able to shoot and not completely rely on high power scopes ( 5 and up magnification) as a crutch. These things can break/fail in the heat of combat. More people should switch out training between iron sights and magnified assistance to be a better prepared and balanced shooter.
Marine here also class of 1987 and I have been preaching what you said for years I still shoot m16 iron sights often to stay sharp. Semper Fi
Most people arent gunfighting. They are target shooting. So many turds on ever gun video talking about combat. Unless you are PMO, PMG, LEO, or special operator. Most special operators dont use personal guns, its bought through the unit and armorer and typically uniform across the unit. 90% of shooters will never have to worry about being in the field, or multiple combat engagements. Shoot what you can afford and are comfortable with. Stop pretending you are in constant combat and need to be ready.
BaCk iN My DaY 🥴🥴🥴
I agree with this, makes alot of sense. I'm kind of scared to get a red dot, but I gotta just remember to still practice with both.
Marines 88-92. Lol there were no optics. I still managed 7 of 10 in the black at 500yds. Now it took some time to get aimed in for each shot. (But not more than 60 seconds from one to the next, obviously. or at least, that was back in the day. IDK what kind of qual the Corps does now.) I'd be curious to see what it looks like with just a 3 or 4x magnifier. Right now I just run (and have been since 08) an EOtech with flip up irons that are also zeroed, and that I can use through the EOtech if it becomes non-functional. (Having said that I have beaten the sh!t out of my EOtech and it's never flinched on me. I have a Leupold Mark 4 CQ/T that was gifted to me back in 08 as well, but have never used it. But like one or two other comments here, I find it easy to be off center and get the tunnel shadow if you're shooting and moving hard. Anyhoo... peace.
I use a 1-6 LPVO on my 16" 5.56 carbine and a red dot with 3X mag on my 10.5" 300BO pistol. I'm finding I don't often use the 3x mag since most shots are 100 yds or less.
I think that's a good rule of thumb but for me it is more about the situation. When I go on a drive hunt I find my LPVOs too slow: fast moving deer close by and small eye relief. Red dot is much better. For normal hunting my LPVOs are better. On my home defense pistols I have red dots.
@011011 0110111 check out the Dirt Squirrel video...
I enjoyed the video but I believe that comparing a magnifier with an LPVO is not the right way to approach these systems. A better approach would be when to chose one vs. the other. I run both systems and they clearly have advantages and disadvantages when comparing one against the other. The red dot/magnifier makes a lot of sense for an operator that does not aspire to shot long-distances. If shooting long-range and/or sub-moa at 100 yards the LPVO is the clear winner. Another consideration would be the rifle set-up. It makes no sense to mount an LPVO on a rifle/pistol that is not precise and/or capable to benefit from the additional magnification. If I could only have one system it would definitely be the LPVO since it offers more versatility and capability. Great eye-relief at 1x for fast target acquisition and equipped with a bipod offers the precision to take accurate shots at greater distances. A strong case can also be made for the red dot/magnifier if the intended use is home defense with an occasional trip to the range to shot steel! Keep up the good work and try to get some time behind the ATCR 1-8. It is definitely my first choice with the Vortex 1-10 being a close second.
good comment, the lpvo's are clearly not suitable for all engagements
Hello @Duda4711 . I usually hunt pigs at 30-40 meters. Sometimes I hunt at 80-100 meters, I need a magnifying glass to take this shot more clearly. What do you suggest me? 1-6x24 or reddot+magnifier?
@@golgemotovlog9428 At 30-40 meters the red dot is the clear winner. At 80-100 both the LPVO and the red dot/magnifier will serve you really well. If 100 meters is the max range you will engage I would go with the red dot/magnifier for sure. Even with a 3X magnifier you will be able to positively ID your target out to 200 meters without a problem.
@@Duda4711 thank you very much for your answer 🙏🏻
I prefer a magnifier, but if I could only have one OR the other, I'd prefer the LPVO just because the lpvo can do 90% of what a red dot can and then some, while the red dot and mag can't do 90% of what the LPVO can do. Little bit more versatile, if you're willing to sacrifice some speed and comfort.
Great video and discussion points.
A better solution:
Buy 2 AR's
Put an LVPO on one
Put a magnifier and red dot on the other.
I have a holosun on a fast mount with an Aimpoint magnifier on my AR pistol
On my 16" rifle I have the Swamp fox Arrowhead 1-10.
Red dot is much faster for clearing a home.Just my opinion though
ar10 gets the lvpo, ar15 gets a red dot
This guy gets it.
@@GOmegaPHD what about a long barrel ar 15?
Red dot on my 300 black out. Looking to put lpvo on my .556.
Lots of money
Clint: what’s up bumble bee. Bee: ya like jazz
What the heck is a prism optic? Yes Clint, we need that video.
While I have tried magnifier setups on other people's rifles, I have never owned one myself. Aimpoint rifles have irons as well, ACOG rifle is just the optic, and my first LPVO setup I put together for my daughter is again just the optic.
It's fun to try out different things.
You get the same thing with both because they both have a separate red dot and magnifier but with Lpvo you can have the extra option of many different magnifications opposed to just 3 power
I love my etched red,lpvo! Never ran a magnifier I would like to try it out, maybe on my 10 inch AR would be good option. My lpvo is on my 16 inch gun.
Love the comparison of two
Great systems, but I think a better setup would have been a more open landscape with short range, medium and long range targets, show how accurate the 10x can reach at 200 yds, 300 yds etc. I think each system has its pros/cons, just depends on your expected engagement distances
Man, I love your videos. I appreciate the information and the detail you describe in them.
Tried out a Swampfox 1-10x and a Holosun H3MX/510c combo...greatly preferred the latter, though I can definitely see the benefit to the former.
Came down to eye box and scope shadow. They just kill me, man. Having the ability to move my head around if necessary to make less than ideal shots is really useful. And I love the versatility of the magnifier/dot. The sheer boost in situational awareness plus weight savings with the QD mount is a godsend.
But, hey, if you're going for a recce build- LPVO is probably where you'll find the best bang for your buck. Personally, going to give a PA Cyclops 1x prism with the aforementioned HM3X a look to try and solve some astigmatism issues as well as free up some rail space from the no longer 'necessary' BUIS.
Would you recommend me get the lpvo with red dot inside or the 510c with magnifier?
I am running the Vortex Crossfire with their Vortex 3X magnifier due to cost and my budget. Works very well for my usage.
Very informative video. Based on personal choices/situation im choosing the red dot/magnifier for now but an lvpo is definitely an option for a precision rifle setup in the future.
We had a few Schmidt & Benders in my unit in the 82nd, few and far in between but they were on the property books for sure (2019). the 4X ACOG was a little more prevalent, but not nearly as much as the CCO (red dot/COMP M4). I personally never got to use the LPVO, but I remember it didn’t look new by any stretch of the imagination. Which tells me that they had them for at least a few years. I always wondered why I never saw more of them.
Why was the unit using non approved sb lpvos on books?
@4:26 I would NOT have been that chill with a bumblebee creeping up on me like that 😂😂
I’m running a swampfox 1-10 with an offset justice on a arisaka mount on my 16” and a eotech with magnifier on my 13.7”. I have to say I feel more comfortable running the eotech and magnifier as opposed to the beefier lpvo.
Great video! Love the versatility of the mag/red dot combo that also allows you to run irons for some “back to the basics” plinking. It’s great that the rear sight can fit nice and cozy under that mag no problem 😉 (Ruger AR-556 MPR, Sig Romeo4h/Juliet4 mag+dot, Magpul MOE vert grip 😇)
i love the idea. ill throw you for a loop. i have a stigma in my eyes. lights bleed. even when i turned the dot down in brightness my eyes dont like light. LPVO it is for me. also i sold my red dot due to that fact. i also have the ruger mpr
@@dylankorpi137 which LPVO you running?
@@JeffFrancis619 vortex crossfire ii
When in it comes to precision shooting 100-300m I prefer my lpvo, for tactical (moving /changing distances) the holographic and magnifier are my favourite. As always it depends what you ar up to
Ive shot my lpvo on 6x up to 300m. I can shoot ay 200m with both eyes open, zoomed in or not. Have never tried jus a dot at 1x at 300m. How is it?
@Kalani Pitmon its pretty much the same as with iron sights. It's not very accurate but fun. Depending on target and dot, they may have the same size.
Hello @la0660 . I usually hunt pigs at 30-40 meters. Sometimes I hunt at 80-100 meters, I need a magnifying glass to make these shots more clearly. What do you recommend me, 1-6x24 or reddot + magnifier? Thank you for your answer.
@golgemotovlog9428 for hunting I would always go with a scope 1-6x is fine. In hunting scenarios I prefer max flexibility for most situations.
Plus Redot battery can go empty then the sights are totally useless
@@la0660 thank you for your answer.
Typically most people are not shooting past 200 yards in any situation unless you are active military deployed overseas. In a SHTF situation it will be CQB or urban warfare. The only other time you would want an LPVO is if you are doing competitive shooting that consists of close and long distance. The red dot and LPVO is best for 90% of us and you can shoot quicker and from odd positions with no parallax as well which is very important.
Coyotes are my own reasons for the LVPO. My AR is a rural varmint and a home shtf situation.
Me as well its a coyote calling rifle #1. LPVO all the way and 1-6 is all a 5.56 needs 99.9% of the time.
Tell that to everyone living the midwest where you can walk outside and see miles in every direction.
Magnifiers are cool and definitely have a place but they're somewhat outdated. Personally I'm going to run a prism with an offset red dot, LPVO with an offset red dot, or just a red dot with backup irons... Great video brother keepem coming!!!
how are they outdated? can you explain? are eotechs and acogs outdated as well? just curious
please explain with documented proof
cause i will take acogs and eotech+magnifier over red dots and lpvo
@@brighthought11 ACOGs are prism optics even though I don't like ACOGs one of my favorite optics for AR15s is a prism optic.... Try not to get so butthurt my guy or making yourself sound like an idiot. LOL I specifically said I like a prism optic with an offset red dot and your mad because you like ACOGs so that makes me believe you're talking out your ass and have no clue what an ACOG (prism optic) is other than what you see on a video game...
After watching this I wish you would compare a fix prism optic with a 45deg offset on the barrel red dot.
I simply have a 3x Prism ACSS on my AR with an offset iron sights.
That's why my LPVO is a 1-6x24. I have the same basic setup but with a lower power. I really like it but I do want to set up one with the red dot/magnifier combo too.
Thank you. I was having a bad time
Chosen a LPVO or dot mag I have both. Pulling the trigger on the
Red Dot & magnifier thank you for the show
Thanks for doing this video! You have helped me to finally resolve this endless debate I’ve been having with myself for months. I know what I’m going to do now. I’ll do the magnifier/holographic combo on my AR-15, and on my AR-10 I’ll use an LPVO. 👍🤘
Yay 😊
I would like to see a 1×4 or a 1×6 LPVO with Red Dot and without Red Dot vs a Red Dot and Magnifier. In my opinion a 1x10 is way over kill for targets up to 200yds. A 1×4 to 1x8 would be much better for targets out to 200yds.
I would also like to see a straight 3 or 5 power prism scope like the Burris or similar thrown in with the test. A 5 power prism scope with a red dot may just be the ultimate optics for targets out to 200 yds.
Close Quarters: Red Dot (maybe a magnifier) Out and About: Variable Optic with red dot on side. That's just me though.
I'm always gonna be of the mind that the benefits/drawbacks of either setup are dictated by the type of engagement. If yiu have time to get your zoom "just right" then an LPVO makes a whole lot of sense. If you need to go from no zoom to more zoom with no thought or adjusting, flipping over the magnifier is faster and less involved.
I'd say LPVO for hunting, dot/holo w/magnifier for a combat/defense setup.
Using an LVPO with a micro dot on it like this one, you can have the scope set to a high magnification, quickly draw up the dot sight onto the target, and rotate to the scope to have the target already in view at long range. It's quicker than just using the scope and having to look around with it to find the target since it's set to such high magnification. It's quicker than flipping up a magnifier and re-aiming, and quicker than using the throw lever.
@@Doc_- yeah, I've refined my opinion after a year or so of shooting a few different setups. The canted micro is definitely a faster transition.
@@kevinclapson so LPVO IS BETTER THAN RED DOT AND magnifier?
@jeremywilson8334 like most things, it depends on what you're doing. Dot & magnifier is faster and easier to run, LPVO is more versatile.
urban SHTF @@kevinclapson
LPVO with red dot stand-off the best and most efficient! Good video..
Request what hardware you used to mount both the scope and red dot? Love your videos...very informative. Semper Fi. Sam
Thank you for the great video. I bought my first magnifier in large part to your video. I can't wait to try it out. You are a awesome as well as Classic Firearms . . . again . . . I thank you . . .
been loving my red dot + mag setup on my AR15...great and easy to use versatile setup
I'm running a 1.25-4x24 VX-R PATROL on one rifle and a Remo 5 on a different rifle.
Each has a pro and con.
The lpvo is on my 3 Gun rifle, if that tells you something.
Honestly I feel like its just a preference thing here.
I personally use a LPVO on my rifle, but I wouldn't be opposed to using a Red dot/ magnifier combo on something like my MK18.
If I had to choose one or the other it would be a tuff choice. I think certain sights like Holographic sights are better for Urban combat and Close quarter stuff like building clearing and other situations where you need to get the gun up as fast as possible and stop a threat. But LPVO's in my opinion are better for longer range stuff. I also tend to like the reticle difference. Where as when you zoom in your reticle stays the same size vs, using a magnifier enlarges your reticle. I think this could be a potential problem especially when using NV because with NV you dont really want a super big bright reticle. I want as fine of a reticle as possible if I'm using NV. Another great thing about LPVO's is they usually don't NEED to have batteries to be usable. Where as red dots and holo's don't give you a reticle unless it has a battery in it.
However I feel that LPVO's just aren't the best kind of optic for CQB stuff. I'm sure it can be used efficiently by someone who's well trained but a holo is going to work better in that department for most people.
Red dot all day for fast moving targets. Lpvo for stationary or slow moving targets.
Great video .. thank you .. but I think if you can just set the lpvo to 3 , and run it like that with the red dot combo, I think that would be a good comparison.
I use an LPVO on my 14.5, an Eotech on my 7 inch 300blk, and I'll. Be using a T2/H2 with magnifier on my upcoming mk18 build.
There is only one situation where I prefer a red dot over an lpvo and that is for my home defense gun where my wife may need to pick it up and use it, in that case the eye relief on the red dot makes it so any one can pick up the rifle and it will work, but in that situation I don't run a magnifier.
Came across your channel from a fellow solider and just can't be happier with the info provided. I know all the RUclips gun guys have their preferences and whatnot I provide some of the basics shown.
I'll take the red dot with the magnifier. The red dot is there for close stuff and field of view and the magnifier gives you positive ID at range along with the longer range capability over just a red dot. The draw-backs for the limited field of view with the LPVO are too significant in my opinion.
Bro a quality Lpvo has an eye box about the size of an eotech, and magnifiers have crappy eye relief. The main trade off is weight savings.
Can your magnifier as a off site red dot? Like you have on your lpvo set up?
“Is that a *birdie* ? What a nice bird. Nope. It’s a *bogey* .”
if you want a long range gun to shoot short medium short range too : LPVO
If you want a short/medium range gun to shoot long range too : Red+Mag
Eotech and magnifier for me👍
"Tam I got you" hell yeah man! Tamfamgram!!!
I'm building an AR9 for coyote and trying to decide what I want for glass. I'm thinking red dot is the way. I only need around 100/150 at best. Most shots are between 50/100 but a little magnification would help a lot.
I say LPVO for long range gun that you want to be able to use up close.
And dot/magnifier combo for a short range gun you might want some extra range on.
It comes down to what the rifle is for
Just wanted to say I appreciate your videos as they are very educational and you touch on important points that are applicable in the field. Again, much appreciated!
Can't run back up sights with a lpvo. I'll take my chances with the 3x magnifier so I can keep my back ups. Lpvos are nice don't get me wrong but if they break or get hit, you'll sol.
I run an lpvo on my ar10. 1x6 power. I have a red dot on my blackout. Looking at some magnifiers now. Awesome video!!
Have both, love both haha.
I need glasses so the etched reticle in the LVPO makes me like it more because I can actually see it properly lol.
I'd really like to try prism with the magnifier and see if I like it even more.
Edit a year later: after shooting an eotech + magnifier and the lvpo's for awhile, I'd have to say if I know I'm not going for shots 200+, I'd just rather have the eotech magnifier combo.
Downsides to lvpos for me.. Eye relief is annoying, parallax is real, and they are chonk. Only thing that they still have over the combo is that etched reticle, still love that.
How much better was the eotech compared to the sig?
Should be a standard, if you have a barrel length less than 16” inches. Then a red dot plus magnifier, more specifically for CQB. If barrel length is greater than 16” inches. Then a LPVO/Scope would be more suited to achieve the maximum distant acquisition from both of the optic and barrel. Just my two cents!
I use a LVPO on a 12.5 and shoot out to 650y consistently
The only reason I would choose the LVPO over the magnifier with the red dot is running a thermal. They make a small thermal that is made to go in front of the LVPO and pair nicely.
That Swampfox scope mount with the high MRDO mount integrated into it, is perfect for DMRs with an adjustable/higher cheek weld. I tried to run a pair of offset XS XTI sights and couldn’t get my cheek down low enough for the offset iron sights...
How much of a difference in group size would you see between the the options at around 100 yds? I am assuming the LPVO is going to be more accurate but how well can you group shots with a magnifier and red dot at 100? Thanks!
Why not keep the lpvo at 3x and still have more magnification if you need it?🤷🏾♂️
Why not run a 1-6 and keep it at 6 then run an offset dot 🤷🏻♂️
Another great video, I always learn something. Question. How far with the magnifier allow you to shoot? Thanks
I mean, at that yardage do you need any magnification? Seems like the LV is not built for that. I’m curious when keeping it in 1 power if it’s close to a Red dot
Magnifiers are just quick but a LPVO has more options and is all one piece plus no worry about batteries
I think the weight is a big factor between the two. Lpvos are all heavy as hell even the light ones
So I would love to see you run a 1x6 with a 45°offset so you won't have switch eyes. Not breaking your fore grip to change from being zoomed in at 150 yards to sighting 20yrds should always feel better with response time and target acquisition. the setup has a lot to do with how comfortable it feels.
If you had the Holosun 503G ACSS with said magnifier would you feel more comfortable going out to 500 or 600 over the LPVO? This is if you are in a fast moving environment, potentially being shot at and it being a must to shoot from odd angles
Don’t forget some people don’t use their right eyes for rifles.. I’m one of the weirdos who shoot my pistol with my left eye, but for some reason when I was young I trained myself through airsoft to use my right eye for rifles.. it’s super weird. My left eye sees better, but I still use my right for rifles. So for me, transferring from shooting with my right eye with a with a scope, to my offset red dot with my left eye is actually really easy.
Just bout the workhorse as my first gun. Happy with it now I need a decent optic.
what brand glasses are you wearing. they look like great shooting glasses with awesome coverage
only thing i would change with the setup if i was running it would be putting the red dot on top of the scope like past the dial so you don't need to have an aggressive cant if you want to keep your cheek weld
Idk how often you hear this, but damn you're a good shot lol
Sold my 3 Vortex Strikefire red dots and magnifiers on Ebay and got a LPVO 1×4 and 1×6. So much better than flipping a magnifier back and forth
Did the same, and I like it way better for me.
Cylee, shake awake, 2 moa dot with Feyachi 3x or 1.5x5 magnifier. They just work and don't break the bank!
Figured I'd help yall out with the good budget stuff, since you won't hear affordable things on this gun snob channel.
I have great eye relief and FOV in my LPVO; Elcan 1.5-6x42.
If you're running iron sights co-witness with the reddot does it block or interfere with the magnifier. Does the AR15 fixed front sight interfere or block the LPVO at any power?
I’ve ran both. And to me the lpvo is better. Gives me a red dot/ holographic for up close, and long distance. I like my magnifier, but I don’t like the blocking of my vision when it’s hanging off to the side. A true 1x lpvo to me is best of both worlds. I got the Swampfox 1-10 and love it. This summer I found Tacticon. They had a 1-4 lpvo for $99! I bought one figured wtf, if it breaks oh well. It’s now my go to lpvo. Glass is crystal clear. True 1x. Etched reticle. And light weight. I still can’t believe how nice it is. I’ve only run about 400 rounds through it. And to me 4x is plenty. I love my swampfox and it’s 1-10, but anything over 5x to me is like looking through a telescope
Comparing eye relief on 3x magni, and LPVO set to 10 is a bit misleading. You Should compare 3x magni to LPVO set to x3 to get them on even ground. Eye relief will always be better on lower magnifications.
For your LVPO, what is the full setup there, including the offset scope mount? Thanks!
"Whats up bumble bee, please don't sting me" wholesome 👍
Being colorblind with astigmatism I do favor a prismatic LPVO in green illumination. If I lose battery power I still have a non-illuminated reticle
Red dot with magnifier on my 10" SBR.
LPVO on my AR15.
I combine Holosun ACSS red dot with Trijicon magnifier - two rivals.
The LVPO with the angled red dot is super interesting for me being right handed and left eye dominant. I have to close my left eye when aiming down a sight. But with this I can do that for distance and then angle and keep both eyes open for the red dot. Mind blown and wallet open.
How long does it take to get used to working with the eye relief on LVPO (1x6 24)? How do I train the problem away?
That lpvo set up on an AR 10 makes fir a great DM set up.
@Classicfirearms I'm going back to combat in the Ukraine in 26 days and am going to a different company that uses M4s with Aimpoint red dots from what I hear from my friend there, I've been trying to decide if I want an LPVO or just buy a magnifier like I'm thinking and this vid has really helped me be reassured with my decision. Thankyou
I got an EOTech combo w/ 3x magnifier for my Scar 20s, however, I think I’m gonna switch to an LPVO as that gun was meant for longer distances.
Compare again but with a more similar LPVO like the Steiner 1-4, the eye box is so much more forgiving than the magnifier.