Chapell is like a good old Shakespeare fool - she says things that no one else has the social licence to say! Great video as always, Leena, thank you :)
Nah she’s just a fool. She’s rude and she attacked her fans. The very people supporting her she brought down as they rose her star. So yeah it’s just a nasty attitude. I’m tired of assh0les being defended period.
@XXjg_ It's not that they can't say it.They just don't want to.They don't want to take the risk.They don't want to lose the fame, or sponsorships. She doesn't seem to care and the craving for money and attention have less power over her behavior
@@aazhie Like what? What are these provocative insights that she is so uniquely and courageously sharing? It’s all in your fantasy. She has said nothing that hasn’t been said, shown, or represented by numerous others. Not as interested in fame or money? Then why is she interested in being signed to a huge record label and touring with big acts like Olivia Rodrigo? Everyone who seeks to get into the major-label music industry prioritizes money and fame. Atlantic records would not invest in anyone that didn’t prioritize that. It’s how they make money. If you go back to the years before her fashion and image was a priority over her music, she made organic, good art. Now she sings cheesy pop songs. Because the masses, the dumber, cheesy, bigger crowds love it. And she prefers the bigger paychecks and bigger crowds. So she’ll make the music they like, instead of making more artistic, genuine music that is better but appeals to a smaller, more selective crowd. She’s a sell-out. Just like other pop-stars. Nothing original. But kids like you always think their faves invented the wheel.
@XXjg_ ... How old must one be for their opinion to count as legitimate? Asking because I'm closing in on 50 and happen to like her music. Also I didn't appreciate being called dumb just because I'm a fan of Chappell Roan. You can dislike her music, her style, her attitude, her fame, her reaction to fame, or anything else - without being insulting. People can like different things.
Ooo I love this parallel. Another aspect of it is that both Harry and Chappell have been told that, whilst they have good points, they just "didn't say them in the right way" which is an excellent way of upholding abusive systems. Harry had been telling the public for years that he wasn't happy about the structure of the royal family or the press, and nobody listened until he started going public in a strategic way. I strongly suspect that Chappell complained to her team and individual journalists in a more polite, constrained way before going nuclear. However, people always focus on the victim's reactive explosion and say, "Well of course we'd have listened if only they'd have said it nicely." It's an excellent way of pretending to be a good person whilst continuing to uphold problematic systems.
ALL OF THIS. I can tell you from personal experience that victims of abuse almost ALWAYS first try the gentle approach FIRST and no one listens to them. Then when they say it louder they get dismissed as angry or rude.
I'm open to discussion on this, but I have to say I don't care about Prince Harry and it does seem like he's seeking attention and then whining about it. His book and interviews keep getting shoved down my throat. I'm sympathetic to the abuse he's suffered from his family and the public. But, as an American, it feels like he's a Kardashian now.
I agree about Chappell but Harry? My issue with him is that he does so many of the things he accuses his family of doing, like leaking stories to the press. He seems like a bit of a self righteous hypocrite to me. Like they left the royal family mainly due to wanting to monetize their royal status with Netflix deals etc but then tried to make it about other stuff to cover over their greed.
But she didn't even go nuclear she was super reasonable. She just spoke plainly. You're right though she has been speaking in shorter ways on the same things
I think most people think of fame as "what if everyone loved me?" when in reality attention does not equal love, which is what Chappell Roan seems to be saying. (Also the glasses/coat color combination is awesome)
Being famous means getting a lot of scrutiny. And even to be famous you'll have to get through a lot of scrutiny as well. The part of being loved by everyone is always welcome.
I also thought that but I’m french and there’s this Belgian singer Angèle that made me realise the difference between attention and love in one of her songs where she was basically saying that people don’t like her for real and everyone finds her impressive her when she hasn’t done anything crazy. I believe the title is flou
Watching 3 of my favourite musicians (Chappell, Hozier, and Noah Kahan) all having to come out publicly in the last year to get fans to respect their private lives and personal boundaries have really left a sour taste in my mouth. It’s wild how some people feel entitled to every single aspect of celebrities’ lives. Also something I don’t see people mention nearly enough about Chappell yelling at that photographer on the red carpet at the VMAs is that she was actually defending her stylist (the woman fixing her dress). She told the (of course male) photographer to shut up because he was being incredibly rude to her stylist, which of course no one should be expected to stand for.
@@desertels5119 so people were being racist to the girlfriend of a guy they're a fan of? I have to wonder what goes through people's heads when they do stuff like this
It’s wild to me that people judge her (and other celebrities) for boundary setting. They are people too! If you got famous tomorrow, you’d want your privacy and human rights!
@alexjames7144 except for the fact that crimes happening against her, like stalking and harassment, is normalized and your lack of empathy towards people that happen to have more money than you is sickening.
@@alexjames7144 yeah and lots of non famous people don't starve and still complain about bad shit in their lives. you don't need to starve to have real problems
As always, on point. It makes me think about Kit Harington saying he isn't paid for doing what he loves (acting) but for the loss of privacy that came with it.
Also, Gena Rowlands to Winona Ryder in NIght On Earth: "Let me just understand what you're saying; are you saying you're just not interested in being a movie star? EVERYONE wants to be a MOVIE STAR!"
I use to love that movie, main character ruins her own life burning all her bridges, just to please wicked boss. Only when her boss compares themselves to her does she finally realize how far she's fallen, how foolish they've been. Sadly entire cast, and even the actor of main character's fiance claim he's the bad guy and wrong when all he did was suggest the logically best option to quit this terrible job seeing how miserable it made her. Despite main character flaking on her friends, forgetting fiancé's birthday and almost cheating on him too.
I have been thinking about the reaction to Chappel Roan and how it reflects our attitudes about own boundaries with work. The line between being 'on the clock' and off is blurred for so many of us, and I think it's important that even celebrities can set rules between what's expected outside of their job. No one should have to work or be on call 24/7.
I think Lorde is another good example. She got Really big, really young, did the LA thing for awhile and then was like Nope and went home to live the calm and quite life back in NZ (and worked on her new music, reappeared on the scene again for abit for its release)
To me, someone with a similar psychiatric diagnosis to Chappell, it was painful to read through the SANEISM in the discussion of her mental health break/cancelled concert on TikTok. Apart from shockingly many people that claim to have a mental illness themselves and still insist that 'that's life, you just have to pull yourself together, you can't just not go to work' -- I'm especially appaled by those who say someone as 'unreliable' ought not occupy a job were anyone depends on them, ought not go touring. Like: Where the hell do they want us to exist? Nowhere.
It's also insane because when a celebrity unalives themselves, we see the outpouring of public grief and 'if only we, the fans, could have helped them' etc etc. 'why didn't someone see this coming and stop it?' Yet, when an artist is honest about mental health and sets boundaries for their own wellbeing, that's not on? Lordy.
Chappell is in the great position that she has nothing to lose. She can stop music and has probably a few million dollars more than last year. She has the luxury of "not going to work when she feels like it" but that doesn't mean that she's ungrateful. It just means that maybe people should (esp in the US) demand for a dignified basic such as paid sick days.
To be fair to those people, yeah, that’s often what they have to deal with. They’re just parroting what they have to put up with on the daily. Not that they should parrot it, not that they should deal with it, but I get it. I don’t think Chappell Roan cancelling a concert is equivalent to missing a day of work, it’d be more like missing the final week to the completion of a big construction project that you were the foreman for, or something to that effect. It’s not the average day of work, and missing it has ramifications for people beyond the foreman. It is the reality though: there are some occasions where you will need to work through illness or injury. Only so many people can call in sick at a power plant or water treatment plant before shit starts breaking down on a societal level. If someone is in distress consistently enough, it’s fair to say that maybe that job is not a good fit for them (and let me be real clear on this: that does NOT mean employees can choose not to accommodate people. I mean it in the sense of: it wouldn’t be fair to hire someone who can’t lift more than 20 pounds, at a job where the only thing you do is lift 100 pound boxes). At the same time, we’re always pointing out that mental health issues aren’t an excuse for the harm your behavior causes, and embracing the whole ‘suck it up, deal with it, push through’ mentality is a natural response to that. If you drop everything because you’re going through shit, you’re still responsible for what you dropped, right? It’s not unfair to extend that to Chappell…to a degree. Totally fair to be upset and never buy a ticket to one of her shows again. Completely unfair to harass her about it. Completely unfair to harass her in public just because she’s a celebrity. Celebrities, and people more broadly, don’t owe people shit. But that goes both ways, and you can’t really have a functional society full of people who operate solely under that ethos.
@@TheNwr1that comparison is still not valid, she does lots of concerts and performances, it’s not the final week of a big project, it’s more of a normal weekly presentation that she does all the time
"Complaints" are actually questions they don't want to hear or can't answer. They are mad because a child is asking a question that they never thought to ask themselves. Also, I had tickets for one of the shows she cancelled. I got an email a few days prior (with a refund, that seems to be debated?). I was disappointed, but didn't think much of it. I was traveling a bit for the concert, but everything was already booked and I knew I would still find other things to do and have a good time. A day before leaving, curiosity got the best of me and I made the mistake of googling why she cancelled. I could not believe how many "fans" were so outraged and calling to "cancel" her. Demanding that she refund lodging and travel fees. Like...if you were able to afford to go in the first place, you're not as desperate for money as you think you are. Things happen, just take the L and have fun anyways. What was scary was, as I scrolled through the comments, I started to feel angry, too. I had to check myself, like "wow, these comments are actually so powerful at inciting how people "should" feel about something because I literally barely cared two days ago". If I was a young chronically online fan, I could totally see how I'd get so sucked into the mob. It was a really scary feeling and made me feel really sad/scared for the youth or those who simply aren't as aware of themselves. They aren't just being socialized on what treatment to accept, but also how to treat others and if we look at that as what they deem as "appropriate" or "deserved" it is very worrying indeed.
I adore Chappell Roan and it makes me genuinely sad that we/the media might bully her out of making more art. Because I want to see what she'll do next! And at the same time, I want her to walk away if it gets to be too much. Anyway, great video. Really clever to draw parallels between the nepo baby system and the royal family.
Same here. I think it will be a HUGE loss to the world if Chappell walks away but I would rather her never sing another note than become just another broken bird singing in a gilded cage
A consequence of that no-boundaries nepo baby work culture is that it does actually trickle down to the rest of the performing arts. In the worlds I’m familiar with (dance, smaller scale full time musicians, and circus) many casting directors don’t hire folks older than their 20s not because there’s some sort of clock on their skills- patently untrue- but because folks develop too many boundaries as they mature and start asking too many questions about the work culture. I have literally heard casting directors say this. It’s not everyone of course but it is shockingly common. In that and other ways, the work culture is normed toward folks with a lot of social capital in their industry already, and often some external financial support (you’d be shocked what a full time dance salary actually pays and what kinds of hours it asks, not to mention implied hours of cross training, recovery, outside classes, etc). So, yes, it probably harms the nepo babies as well. Watch “Dear Hollywood” for more on that. AND it asks those same sacrifices of those of us who aren’t nepo babies and don’t have those resources in order to just stay in the field.
You mentioned this in the Harry memoir video, but it reminds me of people escaping cults and abusive families. The people who escape get rejected by the people still in the cult or abusive family because the idea that they could also escape is too painful, much like you said in the video. And then others in the cult/family see how hard it would be leave, the total loss of support, and stay. Once you're in that situation, every decision is painful. Great video, love hearing your analysis of the matter!
I appreciate this so much. My husband and I are in our 40s and as we parent our daughter, we are realizing how much of these assumptions that you will work yourself to the bone, put everyone before yourself, etc. are baked into every facet of society. I've stopped talking to my dad because he can't handle my demand to for better communication and fair treatment even though he fed and housed me in my youth. This is all connected and I'm so glad the younger generations are starting to see the value in care, both of your community and of yourself.
I cannot express how much I love these woodland rant videos. The off-the-cuff, yet perfectly formed commentary is the perfect RUclips formula. It’s also just a feat that you can shape your thoughts into these perfectly formed wisdom nuggets on the spot. And it’s all set against the woodland backdrop which calms the panic down a degree. Thank you Leena!
This made me think about alternative ways of being/raising families (single parent, child-free, not marrying, stay at home dads, etc.) and how people get so angry about other people's choices and I think a lot of it comes down to "wait, I don't have to do it the way my [family, society, culture] told me I had to?" People feel threatened by that. Which I think just speaks to the value of surrounding yourself with different viewpoints and ways of being and knowing
Love this! I've watched other videos about chapell roan, but you've really articulated the root of what was bothering me with peoples reaction to the situation. Such an interesting take on cultural norms and nepo babies! Hopefully people reflect on whats making them uncomfortable about it so it won't be how it normally goes anymore. Very refreshing as always, thank you Leena! ❤
Great video! Nepo babies have someone to turn to for guidance and support on how to deal with fame and all the negatives that come with it, while those who get famous without connections don't have a road map or support with handing it and tend to struggle with it more. All celebrities are humans and deserve the same human rights, privacy, sick days, empathy, understanding and accountability that we all deserve. Long story short, keep rocking that boat and saying no when you need to, Chappell Roan. I'm here for it. Many of us learned that skill far too late in our own lives.
They deserve basic human rights, except they don't just have basic human rights. They have privileges far beyond the rest of humanity and their wealth exists at our expense. They have fancy dinners whilst people outside starve. Sorry but I actually really don't think they deserve the right to hoard wealth and get royal treatment. The reason for the harassment may not be the right reasons, but they deserve a lot more than just being pushed and shouted at. In an age where people are beginning to question more and more the idea that celebrities could ever possibly deserve their wealth, it's bizarre that as soon as one of them starts crying about being stalked suddenly everyone flips and says they deserve to live a life free of any inconvenience.
Thanks for this discussion Leena 🙌 it made me think about how my mum has been standing up to bullying bs as a nurse and volunteer firefighter and the clapback from people who are entrenched in the bs 🙌 she even got the law changed for volunteer firefighters here (Aotearoa), though it was years of fighting. She's actually my superhero I'm so friggin proud of her 🙌
That's insane and wonderful! How did she manage to make that type of lasting change? You don't have to share (at all, of course, but especially) details if that's uncomfortable, I'm just out here wondering
@@kathydodge8028 hey thanks for asking 😊 it was several gruelling years of a lot of meetings and lawyers and some media coverage also. To be quite honest I don't remember exactly how she ended up making a law change 😅 this was a good decade ago now! But part of the process was having an advocate alongside who has become a family friend at this stage haha we have a workplace bullying advocate organisation here who do incredible work 🙌
@@kathydodge8028 so I asked my dad and what happened was there was a new fire service act going through parliament and in our law making processes here, when there is a new act then anyone can make a submission about it, and in doing so can opt to go speak to the committee about your submission (I hope I am making sense here haha). So my parents made a submission and went up and basically presented it to the committee and it got included into the act 😊 I don't know if this is how it works in other countries but making submissions about laws that are being created is a really awesome way to be involved in the process and having your voice heard 🙌
Along the lines of “this is not how it’s gonna go”, I posted a comment on a different youtube video recently basically saying that pap smears suck. Most people who responded to me were understand and in agreement but there were a few stand outs that didn’t. One basically said that I shouldn’t be a mother (to be clear, I made no mention of motherhood in my comment) and the others said that cancer sucks worse so suck it up, which is just unhelpful. What you said about people being resistant to breaking the status quo reminded me of this. Like can we not just agree that pap smears are generally a bad experience? Can we not think of a better way to do this? There were so many heart breaking replies where people had immense emotional and physical pain during these “routine” procedures. Anyway good, thought provoking video. It’s hard to be the first person/ one of the first people to incite change. Remember what happened to Britney Spears?
There is this song called "we never studied the human body" and it shows in gyno care. Even doctors who have read up on the few basic studies on women's bodies have absolutely no clue about pain levels. And they have no interest to better themselves. Gyno care is second class medicine.
One look at that beak-looking thing to hold the vagina open is depressing. we have computers, cars, washing machines… but a tool used to- I don’t even know, prop the door open? -it’s metal with edges. Edges! One person came up with a bird beak and we’re stuck with it now? Does the doctor even need it to get a good swab?
Recently took up knitting and was knitting during your rant. I love how you captured the ways Chappell, as a new comer, is shaking up the industry in such simple yet effective ways. Thank you for sharing, Leena!
I love listening to your brain. ❤ The idea of positive panic is something that really resonates with me and has shifted my thinking about my discomfort in the world. Thank you!
So well said! And this is also an opportunity for me to say that the “small actions mean nothing” video meant a lot to me, and was definitely part of my deciding to finally stop eating meat. A crazy thing is also that I’ve been vegetarian for less than a year, and haven’t actively tried to convert anyone to that way of being, but someone I know just told me totally unprompted that he wants to eat less meat because I made it seem more possible! All that to say that we really are all connected and just one person speaking up or changing their behavior does actually have a noticeable impact.
Very interesting. I found two things particularly thought provoking. 1. Just because you earn a lot doesn't mean you sign away your dignity. 2. Complaining being the worse thing you can do. I've see that at my work. Thanks Leena
Thank you Leena for sharing your thoughts about this! I love it how she stands her ground, values and sets her boundaries right from the start. Good for her if she ever says “Enough is enough” 🫶🏻
I feel like there is this thing where ppl excuse anything bad by saying 'but they're really rich'. Like, in theory we know that 'money doesn't buy happiness', but was also seem to think that being wealthy means u should be happy/ok with whatever treatment/life u have. You can 100% be rich and/or famous and absolutely miserable. And having either of those things don't remove your need (and right) to basic human needs/wants. Edit: hah yep u just said exactly this
As someone who was raised in household where I was never allowed to say no (not a nepo baby, just middle class intergenerational trauma) that shaped the first 15 years of my career because I never said no to anything even if wildly weird for me in that role or that workplace
I don’t know anything about Chappell Roan but I do have experience with a kind of “nepo” baby syndrome because arguably we all experience this in our daily lives. How many people do we know either got a job because they know someone or was able to get into such and such school because of their parents. I work in US healthcare and it’s super common. When I’ve struggled to get through an interview process at such and such hospital and eventually get hired on and surrounded by people who all know each other on some individual level prior to their employment. Is this so different than celebrity nepotism? Over time or age I’ve learned not to begrudge this because these are the tools and resources that these people had to gain whatever they feel they need to be successful but like said in the video at what cost? What about the better skilled or more knowledgeable person getting passed over because they don’t go to the right church or come from alumni of a specific school. It’s such a stranged and nuanced issue. That book sounds really interesting I’m gonna have to check it out.
She's so right for standing up for her boundaries and personal space, putting her foot down that she won't tolerate abuse from the media or her fans. We've had decades of celebs being treated like show ponies and turned into basically objects, from Pamela Anderson not having the theft of a private tape taken seriously when it got publicized and basically laughed off since she was blonde and had a specific image, to Brittany's very public meltdown over not wanting to be touched anymore. It's beyond time we recognize that this life is extremely stressful behind all the glam, and that these people are still people, artists who work hard to make their art, and still treat them with respect.
Apparently not really. She's tried to make a comeback but has alll kinds of legal and business problems and just doesn't seem suited for the demands of being on tour and performing live.
I never heard of Chappell Roan but it's always interesting to hear Leena's thoughts and I really liked that she generalised the message even to the idea of saying no to eating meat...
She's the new lady gaga. Quirky, amazing voice, amazing persona and the fun thing is: she even admits to that she's playing a character. It's like drag! It's fun, her music is a breath of fresh air but what elevated it all is her fun portrayal of a character.
YES, totally support Chappell pulling an Andie from TDWP and just getting out of the limo and marching away from all of it because it's simply not what she wants anymore!! Every single one of us should have the right to just quit our jobs and do another one, or retire (if you have the savings)
Chappel doesn't make me feel uncomfortable but the internet says she should. I dont get it? Chappers is doing her thing. Bullying should make people uncomfortable. Not self preservation. ❤
I went no contact with my mother in 2014. Its amazing how many people have issues with family and yet they still have a relationship with them. As an adult, you're not obligated to your family.
Your thoughts have made me have thoughts. I saw an interview with someone who's written a book called inheritocracy about the wide reaching importance and class significance of the "bank of mum and dad".. the idea that so much wealth is stored in our parents generation (if you're millennial or gen z) that access to that is very important for class position. Was thinking about that when you mentioned about nepo-babies which is just another way of accessing the bank of mum and dad but more their bank of connections and favours and contacts. I was also thinking about fame being dehumanising only yesterday cos I watched one of those "celebrity reads their own thirst tweets" vids and I thought it would be kinda funny and it was actually not very nice?? Like.. the stuff they were reading was dehumanising and pretty gross and I thought about how isolating it would be to be treated that way.. and I don't really write thirst tweets or whatever but I don't always see celebrities as real people either.. it's like when you're in the car and you wouldn't walk really close behind a slow walker on the street but somehow the casing of the car means you tailgate or swear at ppl (although they can't hear you).. you treat them differently because other drivers are also not really people somehow
It’s giving hunger games…capital and tribute! Like the tributes were thrown in to this celebrity-ness and were like this is not ok but capital were like it’s just how we do it
I saw "Why Chapell Roan makes you uncomfortable" and thought "She doesn't, not interested." And THEN I saw "Leena Norms" and hit play 😅 Do not regret it. I don't really follow celebrity culture and all its drama but what I love about your analysis is how it translates to our own lives ! "Who is my Chapell Roan ?" is gonna be a new favorite 😂 food for thoughts, thanks Leena ❤
Love seeing people (private or public) set boundaries and ask for better (be it in the private sphere, from politics, etc.). I think it sets a great example. Loved your thoughts in this video once again, Leena - thank youuu!
Leena, I just watched two older videos of yours, ones sorting your wardrobe. Can't wait till this year of making do is over and you're joyously shopping, dressing and entertaining the world again with your wild, animated, clothing enthusiasm. YES, PLEASE. You're adorable!
It kind of reminds me of Gotye after Somebody that I used to know. He had mediocre success in Belgium with his previous album and I loved that album so much (Gotye was born in Belgium before moving to Australia, hence the mediocre success there). Then Somebody that I used to know blew up and he very clearly noped out after that. I like that Chapell Roan is talking about the negative side effects before it gets to the point that makes her nope out completely. Good for her, hopefully it actually changes some things in the industry.
Hi! I've been thinking a lot about what you said about commenting on videos to support your favourite creators, and, well, it just so happens that you are my fave and have been for I while. However, I never comment on anything, rarely read other people's comments at all, and I was wondering if just leaving an emoji counts and helps at all??? It's all I can think of. I hate writing. I hate writing this, I'm thinking way too much about it.
I struggle with it too... So I do write only if I have a bit of extra energy on that particular day. Generic "great video, interesting topic" seems like a good enough type of comment, and I think it's better to write out a sentence than just put an emoji, but either way is ok
These videos are just the best! So thought provoking and I love the 'let's talk and walk' format. All my best thinking comes from a good walk. It's also a great format when having these tricky discussions with people you know - being able to talk without needing to look directly at someone is shown to be a much less stressful experience.
I live in the US and I have a lot of severe panic about our presidential election coming up. I know there are things that I could or should do but I'm just Frozen in fear.
This thing of being in a system and getting push back when you are saying you don't agree with something makes me think of this : I was at private uni in France and was complaining about how they ran the school and this friend of mine got upset with me for complaining, it was actually quite an upsetting situation. Later, I learnt she left the school, turns out, her pushing back was because she couldn't handle someone highlighting she also didn't like when she was trying to fit the mold.
this is only a half formed thought, but I wonder if the reason that some normal (i.e. non celeb) people react so violently against what chappell has been saying is also a belief that the sort of social contract of being a celebrity is great because of the money and adoration but it has to have the downside of a lack of privacy is broken. if celebrities are treated with a proper amount of respect and dignity then it's a lot easier to be even more envious of them, whereas the way it is now to be famous, its a lot easier to think you'd prefer not to be
this has just made me think about when Bernie Sanders was running for President and talked about forgiving student loan debt and my older brother who went through school decades ago and paid off his debt thought, no way that shouldn't happen, I had to pay so why should other people get a free pass. meanwhile I never went to college but even if I did, on principle I don't think education should put you in debt ever, why wouldn't you want a change to that? of course we're just different people, I also don't think homelessness should be illegal or that corporations should be land owners etc. i see myself as a compassionate person, and i see our system as flawed and truly messed up, no one should need houseless or starving especially when there's so much wasted food and empty houses.
Super interesting points here and something I hadn’t thought about in this context before. I think about this a lot in the context of modern women who are anti-feminist and I feel like there is a parallel. People are socialized in a very particular way and it makes them think that what they accept from life is good and normal, and often that is absolutely not true
What's the quote? "We're all in a cage with the door wide open." Occasionally someone comes along and points out both the cage and the open door, and we resent them for seeing what we can't or refuse to see.
This is exactly why some GenX and Boomer managers are angry at millennials and GenZ employees. When you have a good ‘stable’ job, criticizing the way we work or pointing out alternative ways to do the same job makes them furious. When we demand better conditions or a work-life balance, they feel like they have wasted their life to do the job in the way it was imposed on them.
OOOO this is such a smart and on point thinking process. Love it. Food for lots of thoughts. And I love that it gives me a cool feeling of "nope, I am not that annoying one demanding that things change - on climate, work pressure, friendship patterns - I am a little CHAPPELL ROAN" ;)
Trying to remember to actually comment when I find a video interesting and I have to say you’re making some really good points. We have these blind spots within our culture and only outsiders can help to uncover them.
Your deep thinking gives me life. Thank you for putting that towards these pop culture topics-we think about them lots because they are important in so many ways and I love that you give that space. ❤
THANK YOU!! You have beautifully articulated my thoughts on this topic. I absolutely love Chappell’s music but ten thousand per cent support her taking charge of her narrative and want to channel some of her energy into my own life.
This happens to me! People use things like oh there are more important things in the world “why are you talking about celebrities” or some other thing to make you feel bad are just trying to control the narrative…some of the things that you brought up in this video are so powerful and interesting and cool and I wish people thought about things more (in general lol) and kindly share them the way you have here thanks so much!
Yees, I found about Chappell Roan because of her "controversy" with media... Finding people asking for basic respect as a controversy says aaa lot about the insanities in our system 😅 and liked her more bc of it. I hope she would keep making her music and showing how things could change for the better. Great video as always! 🎉
This video came up for me because I love Chappel and I've never seen one of your videos before. Well. How dare you talk so much sense! Instant Subscribe.
I think we need to remember that being a celebrity is a separate job from the work you are "famous" for. People are not famous because of their art alone - it's networking, favoritism, marketing. Creating the illusion that this person is special. Hiring promoters and marketers and managers who do all that social work for you. You have to work to build fame. Today, being good at what you do does not naturally bring you money from fame and recognition. You generally have to participate in other activities that build a story around you, dehumanize you and turn you into a myth or an object for consumption. And it's usually someone else doing it to you, or for you. It's sad that we equate fame and recognition with success at all. Success according to whom? Why are we deciding if someone else is successful? You don't even know if this is what they really wanted. We dehumanize each other in so many ways. I think it's definitely a problem that we excuse abuse for celebrities, but it's part of the greater problem of fame and prestige in general. It doesn't make sense to worship other human beings the way we do. Celebrities are dehumanized by their very status as celebrities - they shouldn't be treated poorly, and I also think they shouldn't be treated better than people who are not famous. Not to mention the obvious absurdity of their incomes. Good lord. I don't know what a different culture would look like, but the one we have now is based in so much manipulation. Marketing is truly out of control, and I don't know what the solution is, other than companies scaling it back. Ordinary consumers scaling it back. The news and entertainment media scaling it back.
One problem is she cancelled shows with a very short notice period - that’s why fans were pissed, given that they spent money to travel for her shows etc.
Thank you Leena! I feel like thinking critically about what you say and with you is very good for my brain and mental well-being and you make a difference :]
I had a manager say to me during a performance review that "some people refuse to work with this person and it makes resourcing annoying" Ehen i lightly pushed back saying "He shouldn't be yelling there should be a support system" He said "it was a bit more than yelling. But i think you should just suck it up, I had t o work with some real assholes" So nothing can be better because they experienced a shit thing and you should too.
As far as the gig goes, from what I've seen online, people weren't upset it was canceled bc of her needing time for her mental health, but because it was last minute and she did not refund the tickets, which, imo, people have a right to be upset about bc they paid for those tickets and some had even traveled in order to see her live.
It's fascinating that people will criticise celebrities for hoarding wealth until it's their faves or they pull the mental health card. It's such performative anticapitalism.
i felt crazy reading these comments and everyone just conveniently ignoring this part lmao and she didnt do it once, the first time she cancelled a day before to go rehearse for the vmas, nothing to do w mental health
@@alexjames7144 what does this have to do with hoarding wealth? And how is "playing the mental health card" a bad thing or related to hoarding wealth whatsoever? Performative anti-capitalism is complaining on the internet about celebrities while actively doing nothing to change the system. Condemnation does not equal political action.
@@F00L_Of_A_Took It's called context. Celebrities are part of the 1% and that doesn't stop being the case when they're having a bad mental health day. People proclaiming to be anticapitalist and yet defending the right of the rich to live unobstructed is performative.
@@alexjames7144 first of all, most celebrities are not part of the 1%, which is mostly comprised by big companies and their owners. Secondly, mental health issues do not care if you're rich, and they should always be taken seriously, regardless of the person's economic status. "Hoarding wealth" isn't relevant context to someone's mental health. You can be anti capitalist and still recognize the importance of mental health. Thirdly, defending someone's right to privacy and basic human decency is in no way related to a person's ideological beliefs about the economic system. Claiming that in order to be anti capitalism, you _must_ want rich people to suffer is nonsense. The problem is the system and the people upholding it, and those people are politicians and business owners, not a random pop singer who is asking people to respect her basic human rights. Shouting about how much you hate celebrities and the one percent online does absolutely nothing to solve any of these issues. People defending celebrities' right to privacy and bodily autonomy are not automatically defending a Capitalist system, they're defending other people's human rights.
Really interesting perspective. One of the defences you hear of nepotism in the entertainment industry is that people who are raised in celebrity are better prepared to deal with fame, but not about how they’re conditioned to just accept the abuses that come with it.
Sometimes these lower risk conversations (by which I mean affects only a few individuals instead of entire nations) is a great way for us to step into deeper questions like 'Who has the right to feel/be safe?'
My concern is that if she tries to work away, the press will ramp it up to 1000. "Spoilt brat makes a fortune off fans and walks away," or something like that. They're not just going to suddenly back off.
Chapell is like a good old Shakespeare fool - she says things that no one else has the social licence to say! Great video as always, Leena, thank you :)
Ridiculous. Name one thing that isn’t her own personal business that she has the license to say that others don’t.
Nah she’s just a fool. She’s rude and she attacked her fans. The very people supporting her she brought down as they rose her star. So yeah it’s just a nasty attitude. I’m tired of assh0les being defended period.
@XXjg_ It's not that they can't say it.They just don't want to.They don't want to take the risk.They don't want to lose the fame, or sponsorships. She doesn't seem to care and the craving for money and attention have less power over her behavior
@@aazhie Like what? What are these provocative insights that she is so uniquely and courageously sharing? It’s all in your fantasy. She has said nothing that hasn’t been said, shown, or represented by numerous others. Not as interested in fame or money? Then why is she interested in being signed to a huge record label and touring with big acts like Olivia Rodrigo? Everyone who seeks to get into the major-label music industry prioritizes money and fame. Atlantic records would not invest in anyone that didn’t prioritize that. It’s how they make money. If you go back to the years before her fashion and image was a priority over her music, she made organic, good art. Now she sings cheesy pop songs. Because the masses, the dumber, cheesy, bigger crowds love it. And she prefers the bigger paychecks and bigger crowds. So she’ll make the music they like, instead of making more artistic, genuine music that is better but appeals to a smaller, more selective crowd. She’s a sell-out. Just like other pop-stars. Nothing original. But kids like you always think their faves invented the wheel.
@XXjg_ ... How old must one be for their opinion to count as legitimate? Asking because I'm closing in on 50 and happen to like her music. Also I didn't appreciate being called dumb just because I'm a fan of Chappell Roan. You can dislike her music, her style, her attitude, her fame, her reaction to fame, or anything else - without being insulting. People can like different things.
Ooo I love this parallel. Another aspect of it is that both Harry and Chappell have been told that, whilst they have good points, they just "didn't say them in the right way" which is an excellent way of upholding abusive systems. Harry had been telling the public for years that he wasn't happy about the structure of the royal family or the press, and nobody listened until he started going public in a strategic way. I strongly suspect that Chappell complained to her team and individual journalists in a more polite, constrained way before going nuclear. However, people always focus on the victim's reactive explosion and say, "Well of course we'd have listened if only they'd have said it nicely." It's an excellent way of pretending to be a good person whilst continuing to uphold problematic systems.
ALL OF THIS. I can tell you from personal experience that victims of abuse almost ALWAYS first try the gentle approach FIRST and no one listens to them. Then when they say it louder they get dismissed as angry or rude.
I'm open to discussion on this, but I have to say I don't care about Prince Harry and it does seem like he's seeking attention and then whining about it. His book and interviews keep getting shoved down my throat. I'm sympathetic to the abuse he's suffered from his family and the public. But, as an American, it feels like he's a Kardashian now.
I agree about Chappell but Harry? My issue with him is that he does so many of the things he accuses his family of doing, like leaking stories to the press. He seems like a bit of a self righteous hypocrite to me. Like they left the royal family mainly due to wanting to monetize their royal status with Netflix deals etc but then tried to make it about other stuff to cover over their greed.
She’s an assh0le period. She can complain about whatever she wants but one thing you don’t do is attack your fans. That’s not okay!
But she didn't even go nuclear she was super reasonable. She just spoke plainly.
You're right though she has been speaking in shorter ways on the same things
I think most people think of fame as "what if everyone loved me?" when in reality attention does not equal love, which is what Chappell Roan seems to be saying. (Also the glasses/coat color combination is awesome)
Being famous means getting a lot of scrutiny. And even to be famous you'll have to get through a lot of scrutiny as well. The part of being loved by everyone is always welcome.
I also thought that but I’m french and there’s this Belgian singer Angèle that made me realise the difference between attention and love in one of her songs where she was basically saying that people don’t like her for real and everyone finds her impressive her when she hasn’t done anything crazy. I believe the title is flou
Watching 3 of my favourite musicians (Chappell, Hozier, and Noah Kahan) all having to come out publicly in the last year to get fans to respect their private lives and personal boundaries have really left a sour taste in my mouth. It’s wild how some people feel entitled to every single aspect of celebrities’ lives.
Also something I don’t see people mention nearly enough about Chappell yelling at that photographer on the red carpet at the VMAs is that she was actually defending her stylist (the woman fixing her dress). She told the (of course male) photographer to shut up because he was being incredibly rude to her stylist, which of course no one should be expected to stand for.
I know its not the point, but did Hozier ever came out as anything else than straight?
@@LookTher not to my knowledge?
@@LookTher come out as in speak out, people were asking about his girlfriends race and digging into her past and he was like "could you not"
@@desertels5119 so people were being racist to the girlfriend of a guy they're a fan of? I have to wonder what goes through people's heads when they do stuff like this
It’s wild to me that people judge her (and other celebrities) for boundary setting. They are people too! If you got famous tomorrow, you’d want your privacy and human rights!
I think they've got some nerve to hoard wealth whilst other people starve and complain about there being consequences of that.
@alexjames7144 except for the fact that crimes happening against her, like stalking and harassment, is normalized and your lack of empathy towards people that happen to have more money than you is sickening.
Chappell isn't even hoarding wealth
@@alexjames7144 yeah and lots of non famous people don't starve and still complain about bad shit in their lives. you don't need to starve to have real problems
@@urarakasupremecist5671exactly! She donates and lifts up the Queer community wherever she performs. And that was BEFORE she exploded.
"This is not how it's gonna go" is actually so powerful
Shall we all get it tattooed?
As always, on point. It makes me think about Kit Harington saying he isn't paid for doing what he loves (acting) but for the loss of privacy that came with it.
This reminds me of the Devil Wears Prada "Oh, don't be ridiculous. Andrea. Everybody wants this. Everybody wants to be us."
See 08:23 in the video :D
Also, Gena Rowlands to Winona Ryder in NIght On Earth: "Let me just understand what you're saying; are you saying you're just not interested in being a movie star? EVERYONE wants to be a MOVIE STAR!"
I use to love that movie, main character ruins her own life burning all her bridges, just to please wicked boss. Only when her boss compares themselves to her does she finally realize how far she's fallen, how foolish they've been.
Sadly entire cast, and even the actor of main character's fiance claim he's the bad guy and wrong when all he did was suggest the logically best option to quit this terrible job seeing how miserable it made her. Despite main character flaking on her friends, forgetting fiancé's birthday and almost cheating on him too.
I have been thinking about the reaction to Chappel Roan and how it reflects our attitudes about own boundaries with work. The line between being 'on the clock' and off is blurred for so many of us, and I think it's important that even celebrities can set rules between what's expected outside of their job. No one should have to work or be on call 24/7.
These trees are witness to a lot of big think videos and it is good.
I think Lorde is another good example. She got Really big, really young, did the LA thing for awhile and then was like Nope and went home to live the calm and quite life back in NZ (and worked on her new music, reappeared on the scene again for abit for its release)
To me, someone with a similar psychiatric diagnosis to Chappell, it was painful to read through the SANEISM in the discussion of her mental health break/cancelled concert on TikTok.
Apart from shockingly many people that claim to have a mental illness themselves and still insist that 'that's life, you just have to pull yourself together, you can't just not go to work' -- I'm especially appaled by those who say someone as 'unreliable' ought not occupy a job were anyone depends on them, ought not go touring.
Like: Where the hell do they want us to exist? Nowhere.
It's also insane because when a celebrity unalives themselves, we see the outpouring of public grief and 'if only we, the fans, could have helped them' etc etc. 'why didn't someone see this coming and stop it?' Yet, when an artist is honest about mental health and sets boundaries for their own wellbeing, that's not on? Lordy.
Chappell is in the great position that she has nothing to lose. She can stop music and has probably a few million dollars more than last year.
She has the luxury of "not going to work when she feels like it" but that doesn't mean that she's ungrateful. It just means that maybe people should (esp in the US) demand for a dignified basic such as paid sick days.
To be fair to those people, yeah, that’s often what they have to deal with. They’re just parroting what they have to put up with on the daily. Not that they should parrot it, not that they should deal with it, but I get it.
I don’t think Chappell Roan cancelling a concert is equivalent to missing a day of work, it’d be more like missing the final week to the completion of a big construction project that you were the foreman for, or something to that effect. It’s not the average day of work, and missing it has ramifications for people beyond the foreman. It is the reality though: there are some occasions where you will need to work through illness or injury. Only so many people can call in sick at a power plant or water treatment plant before shit starts breaking down on a societal level. If someone is in distress consistently enough, it’s fair to say that maybe that job is not a good fit for them (and let me be real clear on this: that does NOT mean employees can choose not to accommodate people. I mean it in the sense of: it wouldn’t be fair to hire someone who can’t lift more than 20 pounds, at a job where the only thing you do is lift 100 pound boxes).
At the same time, we’re always pointing out that mental health issues aren’t an excuse for the harm your behavior causes, and embracing the whole ‘suck it up, deal with it, push through’ mentality is a natural response to that. If you drop everything because you’re going through shit, you’re still responsible for what you dropped, right? It’s not unfair to extend that to Chappell…to a degree. Totally fair to be upset and never buy a ticket to one of her shows again. Completely unfair to harass her about it. Completely unfair to harass her in public just because she’s a celebrity. Celebrities, and people more broadly, don’t owe people shit. But that goes both ways, and you can’t really have a functional society full of people who operate solely under that ethos.
@@TheNwr1that comparison is still not valid, she does lots of concerts and performances, it’s not the final week of a big project, it’s more of a normal weekly presentation that she does all the time
@@AlicedeTerre Fair. I mean that in scope, though. It’s the culmination of a lot of work that kinda needs a person there for it to function.
"Complaints" are actually questions they don't want to hear or can't answer. They are mad because a child is asking a question that they never thought to ask themselves.
Also, I had tickets for one of the shows she cancelled. I got an email a few days prior (with a refund, that seems to be debated?). I was disappointed, but didn't think much of it. I was traveling a bit for the concert, but everything was already booked and I knew I would still find other things to do and have a good time. A day before leaving, curiosity got the best of me and I made the mistake of googling why she cancelled. I could not believe how many "fans" were so outraged and calling to "cancel" her. Demanding that she refund lodging and travel fees. Like...if you were able to afford to go in the first place, you're not as desperate for money as you think you are. Things happen, just take the L and have fun anyways. What was scary was, as I scrolled through the comments, I started to feel angry, too. I had to check myself, like "wow, these comments are actually so powerful at inciting how people "should" feel about something because I literally barely cared two days ago". If I was a young chronically online fan, I could totally see how I'd get so sucked into the mob. It was a really scary feeling and made me feel really sad/scared for the youth or those who simply aren't as aware of themselves. They aren't just being socialized on what treatment to accept, but also how to treat others and if we look at that as what they deem as "appropriate" or "deserved" it is very worrying indeed.
I adore Chappell Roan and it makes me genuinely sad that we/the media might bully her out of making more art. Because I want to see what she'll do next! And at the same time, I want her to walk away if it gets to be too much. Anyway, great video. Really clever to draw parallels between the nepo baby system and the royal family.
Same here. I think it will be a HUGE loss to the world if Chappell walks away but I would rather her never sing another note than become just another broken bird singing in a gilded cage
A consequence of that no-boundaries nepo baby work culture is that it does actually trickle down to the rest of the performing arts. In the worlds I’m familiar with (dance, smaller scale full time musicians, and circus) many casting directors don’t hire folks older than their 20s not because there’s some sort of clock on their skills- patently untrue- but because folks develop too many boundaries as they mature and start asking too many questions about the work culture. I have literally heard casting directors say this. It’s not everyone of course but it is shockingly common.
In that and other ways, the work culture is normed toward folks with a lot of social capital in their industry already, and often some external financial support (you’d be shocked what a full time dance salary actually pays and what kinds of hours it asks, not to mention implied hours of cross training, recovery, outside classes, etc).
So, yes, it probably harms the nepo babies as well. Watch “Dear Hollywood” for more on that. AND it asks those same sacrifices of those of us who aren’t nepo babies and don’t have those resources in order to just stay in the field.
You mentioned this in the Harry memoir video, but it reminds me of people escaping cults and abusive families. The people who escape get rejected by the people still in the cult or abusive family because the idea that they could also escape is too painful, much like you said in the video. And then others in the cult/family see how hard it would be leave, the total loss of support, and stay. Once you're in that situation, every decision is painful. Great video, love hearing your analysis of the matter!
I appreciate this so much. My husband and I are in our 40s and as we parent our daughter, we are realizing how much of these assumptions that you will work yourself to the bone, put everyone before yourself, etc. are baked into every facet of society. I've stopped talking to my dad because he can't handle my demand to for better communication and fair treatment even though he fed and housed me in my youth. This is all connected and I'm so glad the younger generations are starting to see the value in care, both of your community and of yourself.
Ren actually did a great track about this called Money Game pt3
I cannot express how much I love these woodland rant videos. The off-the-cuff, yet perfectly formed commentary is the perfect RUclips formula.
It’s also just a feat that you can shape your thoughts into these perfectly formed wisdom nuggets on the spot.
And it’s all set against the woodland backdrop which calms the panic down a degree. Thank you Leena!
This made me think about alternative ways of being/raising families (single parent, child-free, not marrying, stay at home dads, etc.) and how people get so angry about other people's choices and I think a lot of it comes down to "wait, I don't have to do it the way my [family, society, culture] told me I had to?" People feel threatened by that. Which I think just speaks to the value of surrounding yourself with different viewpoints and ways of being and knowing
People were talking about this at work the other day and it was WILD to me how many people thought she was out of line for having these boundaries
Love this! I've watched other videos about chapell roan, but you've really articulated the root of what was bothering me with peoples reaction to the situation. Such an interesting take on cultural norms and nepo babies! Hopefully people reflect on whats making them uncomfortable about it so it won't be how it normally goes anymore. Very refreshing as always, thank you Leena! ❤
Great video! Nepo babies have someone to turn to for guidance and support on how to deal with fame and all the negatives that come with it, while those who get famous without connections don't have a road map or support with handing it and tend to struggle with it more. All celebrities are humans and deserve the same human rights, privacy, sick days, empathy, understanding and accountability that we all deserve.
Long story short, keep rocking that boat and saying no when you need to, Chappell Roan. I'm here for it. Many of us learned that skill far too late in our own lives.
They deserve basic human rights, except they don't just have basic human rights. They have privileges far beyond the rest of humanity and their wealth exists at our expense. They have fancy dinners whilst people outside starve.
Sorry but I actually really don't think they deserve the right to hoard wealth and get royal treatment. The reason for the harassment may not be the right reasons, but they deserve a lot more than just being pushed and shouted at.
In an age where people are beginning to question more and more the idea that celebrities could ever possibly deserve their wealth, it's bizarre that as soon as one of them starts crying about being stalked suddenly everyone flips and says they deserve to live a life free of any inconvenience.
I find Chappell SO f ing empowering and such a beacon of a better, new age
Thanks for this discussion Leena 🙌 it made me think about how my mum has been standing up to bullying bs as a nurse and volunteer firefighter and the clapback from people who are entrenched in the bs 🙌 she even got the law changed for volunteer firefighters here (Aotearoa), though it was years of fighting. She's actually my superhero I'm so friggin proud of her 🙌
That's insane and wonderful! How did she manage to make that type of lasting change? You don't have to share (at all, of course, but especially) details if that's uncomfortable, I'm just out here wondering
@@kathydodge8028 hey thanks for asking 😊 it was several gruelling years of a lot of meetings and lawyers and some media coverage also. To be quite honest I don't remember exactly how she ended up making a law change 😅 this was a good decade ago now! But part of the process was having an advocate alongside who has become a family friend at this stage haha we have a workplace bullying advocate organisation here who do incredible work 🙌
@@kathydodge8028 so I asked my dad and what happened was there was a new fire service act going through parliament and in our law making processes here, when there is a new act then anyone can make a submission about it, and in doing so can opt to go speak to the committee about your submission (I hope I am making sense here haha). So my parents made a submission and went up and basically presented it to the committee and it got included into the act 😊 I don't know if this is how it works in other countries but making submissions about laws that are being created is a really awesome way to be involved in the process and having your voice heard 🙌
Along the lines of “this is not how it’s gonna go”, I posted a comment on a different youtube video recently basically saying that pap smears suck. Most people who responded to me were understand and in agreement but there were a few stand outs that didn’t. One basically said that I shouldn’t be a mother (to be clear, I made no mention of motherhood in my comment) and the others said that cancer sucks worse so suck it up, which is just unhelpful. What you said about people being resistant to breaking the status quo reminded me of this. Like can we not just agree that pap smears are generally a bad experience? Can we not think of a better way to do this? There were so many heart breaking replies where people had immense emotional and physical pain during these “routine” procedures.
Anyway good, thought provoking video. It’s hard to be the first person/ one of the first people to incite change. Remember what happened to Britney Spears?
There is this song called "we never studied the human body" and it shows in gyno care. Even doctors who have read up on the few basic studies on women's bodies have absolutely no clue about pain levels. And they have no interest to better themselves. Gyno care is second class medicine.
One look at that beak-looking thing to hold the vagina open is depressing. we have computers, cars, washing machines… but a tool used to- I don’t even know, prop the door open? -it’s metal with edges. Edges! One person came up with a bird beak and we’re stuck with it now? Does the doctor even need it to get a good swab?
This is not how it's gonna go! Thanks for bringing that into my life!🎉
Recently took up knitting and was knitting during your rant. I love how you captured the ways Chappell, as a new comer, is shaking up the industry in such simple yet effective ways. Thank you for sharing, Leena!
I love listening to your brain. ❤ The idea of positive panic is something that really resonates with me and has shifted my thinking about my discomfort in the world. Thank you!
So well said! And this is also an opportunity for me to say that the “small actions mean nothing” video meant a lot to me, and was definitely part of my deciding to finally stop eating meat. A crazy thing is also that I’ve been vegetarian for less than a year, and haven’t actively tried to convert anyone to that way of being, but someone I know just told me totally unprompted that he wants to eat less meat because I made it seem more possible! All that to say that we really are all connected and just one person speaking up or changing their behavior does actually have a noticeable impact.
Very interesting. I found two things particularly thought provoking. 1. Just because you earn a lot doesn't mean you sign away your dignity. 2. Complaining being the worse thing you can do. I've see that at my work. Thanks Leena
Thank you Leena for sharing your thoughts about this! I love it how she stands her ground, values and sets her boundaries right from the start. Good for her if she ever says “Enough is enough” 🫶🏻
I feel like there is this thing where ppl excuse anything bad by saying 'but they're really rich'. Like, in theory we know that 'money doesn't buy happiness', but was also seem to think that being wealthy means u should be happy/ok with whatever treatment/life u have. You can 100% be rich and/or famous and absolutely miserable. And having either of those things don't remove your need (and right) to basic human needs/wants. Edit: hah yep u just said exactly this
"Nothing is more natural than trees and dissatisfaction"
One for the quotebook 😂
As someone who was raised in household where I was never allowed to say no (not a nepo baby, just middle class intergenerational trauma) that shaped the first 15 years of my career because I never said no to anything even if wildly weird for me in that role or that workplace
I don’t know anything about Chappell Roan but I do have experience with a kind of “nepo” baby syndrome because arguably we all experience this in our daily lives. How many people do we know either got a job because they know someone or was able to get into such and such school because of their parents. I work in US healthcare and it’s super common.
When I’ve struggled to get through an interview process at such and such hospital and eventually get hired on and surrounded by people who all know each other on some individual level prior to their employment. Is this so different than celebrity nepotism?
Over time or age I’ve learned not to begrudge this because these are the tools and resources that these people had to gain whatever they feel they need to be successful but like said in the video at what cost? What about the better skilled or more knowledgeable person getting passed over because they don’t go to the right church or come from alumni of a specific school.
It’s such a stranged and nuanced issue. That book sounds really interesting I’m gonna have to check it out.
She's so right for standing up for her boundaries and personal space, putting her foot down that she won't tolerate abuse from the media or her fans. We've had decades of celebs being treated like show ponies and turned into basically objects, from Pamela Anderson not having the theft of a private tape taken seriously when it got publicized and basically laughed off since she was blonde and had a specific image, to Brittany's very public meltdown over not wanting to be touched anymore. It's beyond time we recognize that this life is extremely stressful behind all the glam, and that these people are still people, artists who work hard to make their art, and still treat them with respect.
This reminds me of the way Lauryn hill really did just walk away
Apparently not really. She's tried to make a comeback but has alll kinds of legal and business problems and just doesn't seem suited for the demands of being on tour and performing live.
I never heard of Chappell Roan but it's always interesting to hear Leena's thoughts and I really liked that she generalised the message even to the idea of saying no to eating meat...
She's the new lady gaga. Quirky, amazing voice, amazing persona and the fun thing is: she even admits to that she's playing a character. It's like drag! It's fun, her music is a breath of fresh air but what elevated it all is her fun portrayal of a character.
YES, totally support Chappell pulling an Andie from TDWP and just getting out of the limo and marching away from all of it because it's simply not what she wants anymore!! Every single one of us should have the right to just quit our jobs and do another one, or retire (if you have the savings)
Chappel doesn't make me feel uncomfortable but the internet says she should. I dont get it? Chappers is doing her thing. Bullying should make people uncomfortable. Not self preservation. ❤
I went no contact with my mother in 2014. Its amazing how many people have issues with family and yet they still have a relationship with them. As an adult, you're not obligated to your family.
I feel like I don’t often have a ton to add but I’m always intrigued and inspired by the way your brain works! Loved this discussion, thank you!
Your thoughts have made me have thoughts. I saw an interview with someone who's written a book called inheritocracy about the wide reaching importance and class significance of the "bank of mum and dad".. the idea that so much wealth is stored in our parents generation (if you're millennial or gen z) that access to that is very important for class position. Was thinking about that when you mentioned about nepo-babies which is just another way of accessing the bank of mum and dad but more their bank of connections and favours and contacts. I was also thinking about fame being dehumanising only yesterday cos I watched one of those "celebrity reads their own thirst tweets" vids and I thought it would be kinda funny and it was actually not very nice?? Like.. the stuff they were reading was dehumanising and pretty gross and I thought about how isolating it would be to be treated that way.. and I don't really write thirst tweets or whatever but I don't always see celebrities as real people either.. it's like when you're in the car and you wouldn't walk really close behind a slow walker on the street but somehow the casing of the car means you tailgate or swear at ppl (although they can't hear you).. you treat them differently because other drivers are also not really people somehow
yes. I imagine reading those "thirst tweets" can feel like getting catcalled, minus the physical threat
It’s giving hunger games…capital and tribute! Like the tributes were thrown in to this celebrity-ness and were like this is not ok but capital were like it’s just how we do it
I saw "Why Chapell Roan makes you uncomfortable" and thought "She doesn't, not interested." And THEN I saw "Leena Norms" and hit play 😅 Do not regret it. I don't really follow celebrity culture and all its drama but what I love about your analysis is how it translates to our own lives ! "Who is my Chapell Roan ?" is gonna be a new favorite 😂 food for thoughts, thanks Leena ❤
The Jane Austen "Emma" reference was so satisfying to hear.
Love seeing people (private or public) set boundaries and ask for better (be it in the private sphere, from politics, etc.). I think it sets a great example. Loved your thoughts in this video once again, Leena - thank youuu!
Leena, I just watched two older videos of yours, ones sorting your wardrobe. Can't wait till this year of making do is over and you're joyously shopping, dressing and entertaining the world again with your wild, animated, clothing enthusiasm. YES, PLEASE. You're adorable!
It kind of reminds me of Gotye after Somebody that I used to know. He had mediocre success in Belgium with his previous album and I loved that album so much (Gotye was born in Belgium before moving to Australia, hence the mediocre success there). Then Somebody that I used to know blew up and he very clearly noped out after that. I like that Chapell Roan is talking about the negative side effects before it gets to the point that makes her nope out completely. Good for her, hopefully it actually changes some things in the industry.
I love ur defences of Prince Harry n Megan ur video on them made me a debate fiend last Christmas 😂
Hi! I've been thinking a lot about what you said about commenting on videos to support your favourite creators, and, well, it just so happens that you are my fave and have been for I while. However, I never comment on anything, rarely read other people's comments at all, and I was wondering if just leaving an emoji counts and helps at all??? It's all I can think of. I hate writing. I hate writing this, I'm thinking way too much about it.
I struggle with it too... So I do write only if I have a bit of extra energy on that particular day. Generic "great video, interesting topic" seems like a good enough type of comment, and I think it's better to write out a sentence than just put an emoji, but either way is ok
@@sofiamotta5174 An emoji is still engagement for the algorithm gods and shows a creators how you're feeling about their video. I'd say it works!
@@charliebrown1184 that's what I was hoping!
Some creators explicitely ask for an emoji so I think it's totally good
And Leena is a sweatheart ;)
Thanks Leena!! Also loving the specs 🥰
These videos are just the best! So thought provoking and I love the 'let's talk and walk' format. All my best thinking comes from a good walk. It's also a great format when having these tricky discussions with people you know - being able to talk without needing to look directly at someone is shown to be a much less stressful experience.
“This is NOT how its gonna go!” Going to be embodying this from now on😂👏
I live in the US and I have a lot of severe panic about our presidential election coming up. I know there are things that I could or should do but I'm just Frozen in fear.
Deeply relatable. Sending supportive thoughts your way!
Just remember the trillionaires actually run the world and the election is a dog and pony show.
This thing of being in a system and getting push back when you are saying you don't agree with something makes me think of this : I was at private uni in France and was complaining about how they ran the school and this friend of mine got upset with me for complaining, it was actually quite an upsetting situation. Later, I learnt she left the school, turns out, her pushing back was because she couldn't handle someone highlighting she also didn't like when she was trying to fit the mold.
this is only a half formed thought, but I wonder if the reason that some normal (i.e. non celeb) people react so violently against what chappell has been saying is also a belief that the sort of social contract of being a celebrity is great because of the money and adoration but it has to have the downside of a lack of privacy is broken. if celebrities are treated with a proper amount of respect and dignity then it's a lot easier to be even more envious of them, whereas the way it is now to be famous, its a lot easier to think you'd prefer not to be
this has just made me think about when Bernie Sanders was running for President and talked about forgiving student loan debt and my older brother who went through school decades ago and paid off his debt thought, no way that shouldn't happen, I had to pay so why should other people get a free pass. meanwhile I never went to college but even if I did, on principle I don't think education should put you in debt ever, why wouldn't you want a change to that? of course we're just different people, I also don't think homelessness should be illegal or that corporations should be land owners etc. i see myself as a compassionate person, and i see our system as flawed and truly messed up, no one should need houseless or starving especially when there's so much wasted food and empty houses.
It's been socially unacceptable for so long to say "no, enough is enough". Happily, now, more people are saying it, hopefully things will get better.
Super interesting points here and something I hadn’t thought about in this context before. I think about this a lot in the context of modern women who are anti-feminist and I feel like there is a parallel. People are socialized in a very particular way and it makes them think that what they accept from life is good and normal, and often that is absolutely not true
Ooh yay another walk in the woods with Leena! Lemme get my tea ☕
What's the quote? "We're all in a cage with the door wide open." Occasionally someone comes along and points out both the cage and the open door, and we resent them for seeing what we can't or refuse to see.
This is exactly why some GenX and Boomer managers are angry at millennials and GenZ employees. When you have a good ‘stable’ job, criticizing the way we work or pointing out alternative ways to do the same job makes them furious. When we demand better conditions or a work-life balance, they feel like they have wasted their life to do the job in the way it was imposed on them.
OOOO this is such a smart and on point thinking process. Love it. Food for lots of thoughts. And I love that it gives me a cool feeling of "nope, I am not that annoying one demanding that things change - on climate, work pressure, friendship patterns - I am a little CHAPPELL ROAN" ;)
Trying to remember to actually comment when I find a video interesting and I have to say you’re making some really good points. We have these blind spots within our culture and only outsiders can help to uncover them.
Aw thank you I appreciate that. X
I have no idea who Chappell Roan is but I still found your woodland rant very thought provoking. Love your vids.
Your deep thinking gives me life. Thank you for putting that towards these pop culture topics-we think about them lots because they are important in so many ways and I love that you give that space. ❤
THANK YOU!! You have beautifully articulated my thoughts on this topic. I absolutely love Chappell’s music but ten thousand per cent support her taking charge of her narrative and want to channel some of her energy into my own life.
Everyone loves a boundary until its put up against them
This happens to me!
People use things like oh there are more important things in the world “why are you talking about celebrities” or some other thing to make you feel bad are just trying to control the narrative…some of the things that you brought up in this video are so powerful and interesting and cool and I wish people thought about things more (in general lol) and kindly share them the way you have here thanks so much!
Well said. Chappel Roan is the SHERO we need.
Yees, I found about Chappell Roan because of her "controversy" with media... Finding people asking for basic respect as a controversy says aaa lot about the insanities in our system 😅 and liked her more bc of it. I hope she would keep making her music and showing how things could change for the better. Great video as always! 🎉
She is more rockstar than most actual rockstars.
This video came up for me because I love Chappel and I've never seen one of your videos before. Well. How dare you talk so much sense! Instant Subscribe.
Louder for the people in the back. 👏👏👏👏Brb, sending this to everyone.
I think we need to remember that being a celebrity is a separate job from the work you are "famous" for. People are not famous because of their art alone - it's networking, favoritism, marketing. Creating the illusion that this person is special. Hiring promoters and marketers and managers who do all that social work for you. You have to work to build fame. Today, being good at what you do does not naturally bring you money from fame and recognition. You generally have to participate in other activities that build a story around you, dehumanize you and turn you into a myth or an object for consumption. And it's usually someone else doing it to you, or for you.
It's sad that we equate fame and recognition with success at all. Success according to whom? Why are we deciding if someone else is successful? You don't even know if this is what they really wanted.
We dehumanize each other in so many ways. I think it's definitely a problem that we excuse abuse for celebrities, but it's part of the greater problem of fame and prestige in general. It doesn't make sense to worship other human beings the way we do. Celebrities are dehumanized by their very status as celebrities - they shouldn't be treated poorly, and I also think they shouldn't be treated better than people who are not famous. Not to mention the obvious absurdity of their incomes. Good lord.
I don't know what a different culture would look like, but the one we have now is based in so much manipulation. Marketing is truly out of control, and I don't know what the solution is, other than companies scaling it back. Ordinary consumers scaling it back. The news and entertainment media scaling it back.
One problem is she cancelled shows with a very short notice period - that’s why fans were pissed, given that they spent money to travel for her shows etc.
I LOVE listening to your forest chats. I always come away with so much to think about.
As always, you posted a masterclass of an opinion. I feel like you always put words to my thoughts. Thank you!
I didn’t know that I needed the image of a little Chappell Roan on my shoulder but it could change everything
Thank you Leena! I feel like thinking critically about what you say and with you is very good for my brain and mental well-being and you make a difference :]
Loved this! Such an interesting conversation. Also very Oz-Core jacket 10/10!
I had a manager say to me during a performance review that "some people refuse to work with this person and it makes resourcing annoying"
Ehen i lightly pushed back saying "He shouldn't be yelling there should be a support system"
He said "it was a bit more than yelling. But i think you should just suck it up, I had t o work with some real assholes"
So nothing can be better because they experienced a shit thing and you should too.
Yes!! Thank you for beautifully articulating this. It's so important.
Insightful as always! Also love the lipstick/jacket colour combo!
As far as the gig goes, from what I've seen online, people weren't upset it was canceled bc of her needing time for her mental health, but because it was last minute and she did not refund the tickets, which, imo, people have a right to be upset about bc they paid for those tickets and some had even traveled in order to see her live.
It's fascinating that people will criticise celebrities for hoarding wealth until it's their faves or they pull the mental health card. It's such performative anticapitalism.
i felt crazy reading these comments and everyone just conveniently ignoring this part lmao and she didnt do it once, the first time she cancelled a day before to go rehearse for the vmas, nothing to do w mental health
@@alexjames7144 what does this have to do with hoarding wealth? And how is "playing the mental health card" a bad thing or related to hoarding wealth whatsoever? Performative anti-capitalism is complaining on the internet about celebrities while actively doing nothing to change the system. Condemnation does not equal political action.
@@F00L_Of_A_Took It's called context. Celebrities are part of the 1% and that doesn't stop being the case when they're having a bad mental health day.
People proclaiming to be anticapitalist and yet defending the right of the rich to live unobstructed is performative.
@@alexjames7144 first of all, most celebrities are not part of the 1%, which is mostly comprised by big companies and their owners. Secondly, mental health issues do not care if you're rich, and they should always be taken seriously, regardless of the person's economic status. "Hoarding wealth" isn't relevant context to someone's mental health. You can be anti capitalist and still recognize the importance of mental health. Thirdly, defending someone's right to privacy and basic human decency is in no way related to a person's ideological beliefs about the economic system. Claiming that in order to be anti capitalism, you _must_ want rich people to suffer is nonsense. The problem is the system and the people upholding it, and those people are politicians and business owners, not a random pop singer who is asking people to respect her basic human rights. Shouting about how much you hate celebrities and the one percent online does absolutely nothing to solve any of these issues. People defending celebrities' right to privacy and bodily autonomy are not automatically defending a Capitalist system, they're defending other people's human rights.
I knew you'd have an excellent take on this Leena!!
Ren (one of those truly Independent artists that can't stand greed) actually did a great track about this called Money Game pt3
Firstly, two years! I am shook as it feels like about 6 months ago. Secondly, where did you get those fabulous glasses? They are the coolest thing.
Thank you so much for this video!!
I needed this today, thank you
I wonder if some of it is also a magnified projection of frustration about the push in US culture to let work bleed into our personal time
I enjoyed hearing your thoughts on this. I also think the the editing was especially good in this one. Thank you Leena and Craig!
Really interesting perspective. One of the defences you hear of nepotism in the entertainment industry is that people who are raised in celebrity are better prepared to deal with fame, but not about how they’re conditioned to just accept the abuses that come with it.
Love her and her boundaries, love you! Thanks for another awesome video
So jel you got Chappell Roan tickets! Loved the video
Yes. Let us humans remember to have empathy.
Absolutely love Chappell for everything she's doing right now.
Sometimes these lower risk conversations (by which I mean affects only a few individuals instead of entire nations) is a great way for us to step into deeper questions like 'Who has the right to feel/be safe?'
My concern is that if she tries to work away, the press will ramp it up to 1000. "Spoilt brat makes a fortune off fans and walks away," or something like that. They're not just going to suddenly back off.