I sold my SawStop for a slider // Hammer K3 Winner Assembly
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- Опубликовано: 23 июл 2023
- I sold my 3HP SawStop PCS for the Hammer K3 Winner Sliding Table Saw. I wasn't unhappy with the SawStop at all, I really just want to see what it is like to use a sliding table saw. I also wanted to see how I could incorporate a saw like this into a garage workshop.
#felderusa #hammerK3 #slidingtablesaw
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You are a better man than I for your patience not just to put it all together but to document it in a cool calm voice. The second I'd have opened the crate to find 3 different caches of 40+ parts I'd have thrown something somewhere and yelled words I don't want small children to hear.
And in case you think "Well maybe you don't like complex projects", I'm an ex-IT guy on multi-year projects and a current helicopter pilot but... putting together this saw makes me shudder... and that's before all the alignment stuff ... just kills me thinking about it.
Great video, narration, and the patience of Job!
Thank you!
Jason, thank you for all of your quality videos over the years. I really appreciate how you’ve held on to the good that comes from the RUclips community and let go of the toxic bad to keep moving forward. I have learned many wonderfully valuable skills from you that have helped me build my business. I have also benefited from your recommendations for several large tool purchases as well. No regrets. So thank you again. Enjoy your new beautiful machine. You deserve it.
Oh man I’m excited to see these future videos. Your purchase could not have come at a better time for me personally 😂. Thank you so much for your continuous top quality videos Jason. They are always packed with good stuff. Enjoy the new saw!
Subscribed. In UK, southeast London, I'll never have space or, being retired, funds, or reason to get such a cabinet saw. But the clarity of your video - both sound and picture - means I'll probably learn something from you. At 68, I learned my woodwork in extracurricular sessions, 7 hours a week, at boarding school from head of maintenance who was a cabinet maker by trade, not a classroom teacher. I was trusted with lathes but boys couldn't use table saw or band saw. All hand tools then: made dovetail cabinets, standard lamps, inlaid coffee tables. Won woodwork prize. Now, I mostly do heavy duty DIY and modify Ikea products using power tools
Yay you now have a winner and I’m so excited because I have the same table saw. I consider you as someone who knows what they’re doing when it comes to woodworking so I can’t wait until you do a video on how to fine tune the saw.
I have a Felder CF731 combo machine, purchased in 2004. It has worked flawlessly for these many years. One important thing with sliding table saws is to make sure you have sufficient infeed/outfeed and table- side clearance. (I have just 10 feet in each direction). From the video it looks like that is not a problem for you. I am sure that you will love the convenience of the Hammer sliding table.
Hi 👋, Nice Saw , Great upgrade, I have the K7 Felder , spindle moulder and table-saw. I notices The sliding table seems to be fixed, where on mine i can lift the sliding table on and off, this is great saving on space, Hope you all the success for the future, I am now retired in my 70s and I still have most of my woodworking tools and machinery, it looks like you’ve got a great pallet truck, I was very lucky around 20 years ago I was in Cambridge in UK, the shop was closing down and everything had to be sold off and I noticed a pallet truck. I’ve got a label on it for sale offers, so I just went in and said £50 I said done you can pick it up at the end of the week which I did,
Keep up the great work and stay safe , I have now moved to France, Phil from the moulin France,
Jason, great vid, awesome step by step. I’ve had my K3 Winner for about 8 years and love it. Sure was tricky getting it off the pallet by myself. My rented pallet jack would no hold the weight as I was rolling the saw down the ramp … tense moments to say the least. Having worked in a commercial cabinet shop and learned on German table saw’s with sliders, I knew then I wanted one in my shop. The slider with the blade brake really makes this saw safe (IMO). Thanks and enjoy!
Looking forward to learning it
Precise and detailed assembly instructions. Great video and congrats on your purchase!
Glad it was helpful!
Happy New Saw ! What a great saw to buy , congratulations on your choice . Cheers
I was about to say that delivery driver seemed pretty cool to help you. Lots of them would drop it in the driveway and wish you luck. Nice saw. Great video. Wish I had room, or a good reason, to have one. Enjoy.
I Have had mine for 6 year and love it. Best of luck.
Very nice Jason! The local wood mill I buy from has several Felder machines including the sliding table saw and they are spectacular. It always seemed like a superior design in my opinion compared to the typical US cabinet saw with the obvious down side of just significant space requirements. I am looking forward to you putting through its paces.
Good Choice. I have the Hammer B3 in the comfort package. Amazing tool. Scoring blade available and dado compatable as well. Make yourself a Fritz and Franz jig and you can cut/rip small pieces with ease. That crosscut/outrigger sled makes processing sheet goods a breeze. You will find your track saw and mitre saw lonely for more attention, since this unit will replace most (but not all) of that functionality as well. Enjoy!
I have a standard tablesaw and a Sliding Tablesaw , i use both daily, rip with my tablesaw and cutoff with my slider, a great combo since 2004 for me.
I picked up the Hammer C3-31 a year ago, and I can confidently tell you, you're going to love the sliding table!
Can't wait!
Welcome to the slider club. It ain't small but I love my k3. Sure it doesn't have the saw stop tech but it is way easier to stay away from the blade kickback zone and if you routinely cut sheet goods I can't imagine life can get any easier, particularly if you get it with the scoring blade (silky smooth cuts in the veneers). I can't put 4x8 sheets on it but it is plenty big enough to throw on 5x5 baltic birch.The only thing i don't like is the blade guard as the knob makes it impossible to set the blade height anywhere near the depth of the gullets. I built an overhead dust collection "hood" based on David Bedrosian's plans but added some LED lights. Enjoy and thanks for posting.
I also received my k3 winner a couple weeks ago. So far I’m loving this machine, goodbye my dozen or so homemade sleds!
Nice!!
Just picked up the same saw. I was trained on sliders and have always been on the lookout. When I saw the K3 on sale, I pulled the trigger.
However, I kept my SawStop for now because I have 4 kids who are itching to learn woodworking and I'm blessed with enough space for two saws.
It would be awesome to have the space for 2
I've always wondered about the 'magic' it took to assemble on of these things with all the moving parts they have. Nice video.
Sliders are so much safer and superior than a cabinet saw. Even without the sawstop technology. Many of the high end sliders are now incorporating a similar technology which means they are going to be even far safer, and they are non destructive meaning the blade can be reused and does not require actual contact with the blade to trigger the stop.
Know someone who lost a finger to a slider. From not keeping their concentration and making multiple cuts. Saw stop is a no brainer. Interesting to see more of the new tech you are talking about.
@@steveogle3679 that's unfortunate, sorry to hear that. Check out the Altendorf Hand Guard as well as the Felder PCS systems
@@oldmangloomify kappa 550 e-motion will run you 22K+ the Altendorf Hand Guard is probably a 25K saw
The Altendorf is actually around $67k 😅
@@steveogle3679 If you cut your finger on a sliding table saw it´s not because of a lack of concentration but because of completely neglecting how to use it properly. SawStop is fooling people cause it provides a safety system for somethig that´s pretty rare. Kickback and eye injuries are far more common and a sawstop (especially those who don´t use a riving knife and blade guard) does not protect from that.
Imagine you buy a car and the salesman give you a helmet with it, so you can speed on the streets and not care about others. That´s basically the SawStop feature.
Congratulations. I got the same Hammer K3 because I mainly build cabinets and it's absolutely great for panel work. The standard blade is great but for panel work, you should consider one of the Tenryu plywood blades.
Tenryu are definitely my favorite blades
I have had my K3 Winner for just about 1 year and absolutely love it. I did look at the Saw Stop, however decided to go for the slider as it handles sheet material more easily. The machine is super accurate and easy to use and I have a scoring blade and dado set to add / install when required. I'm looking forward to seeing your future videos and keen to hear what you think once you have had a chance to used it.
I’m excited to learn it!
Congratulations. A sliding table saw is the way to go. It hurts my woodworking soul (I started in 1946) to see so many people having a saw stop when could buy a superior sliding table saw. I understand a lot of Americans wanna buy American stuff, I get that, as I only buy German woodworking stuff (but fortunately Germany is the leading country in manufactoring woodworking machines), but I never understood why they use a table saw like this.
Probably the best advertisement for your straight edge possible. I couldn't imagine assembling and calibrating your new saw without it. Didn't realize that it has that fat edge allowing you to let it rest perpendicular while you attend to other tasks with your hands. Now I can't wait to see the saw in action!
I pretty sure a level would have done the job they have a nice straight edge and are a lot cheaper.
Here in europe we've often wondered why sliders arent more common in US. They are so versatile and nice to use even with heavy weight and large sheet materials.
North Americans usually end up adding slide assemblies from OEM or third party.
Hi 👋, I have the K7 Falder my sliding table lifts off , saving on space, I have noticed a lot of things are different from Europe to US. I think some of it is due to safety aspects, Phil from the moulin France.
Because we're arrogant Americans who think we know better.
it depends on what you're doing, I have a slider for doing cabinets, I also have two other saws that I use for solid wood, each machine does different things best
@@GroberWeisenstein Yeah, but it's not the same. Like here the blade is on the side next to the slider instead of the mid of the table. Also for cutting big panels there are saws with the ability to add a precutter blade which makes a big difference in cut quality. You can't do it with a traditional cabinet saw while you can use this kind of saws as the cabinet saws.
I bought a Felder CF531P. My first slider (combination machine). Complex, but heavy and so incredibly accurate! You will love the first time you rip a board with no straight side! Just use the slider and rip perfectly.
I can’t wait
use a fine(100ish) tooth blade instead of a rip blade. then no jointer needed, saves a lot of time going from machine to machine.
You can do the same thing with a piece of plywood and two toggle clamps, for about $5K less
Jason - just put in an order for a K3, this video and your future videos on it played a part in that decision. Looking forward to what's to come!
That’s awesome! And I’m excited about the new saw
Great choice my dude! I love my Robland X31 and glad I didn’t go with a standard saw.
When I removed my A3 41 from its pallet I removed the sleeper from one end. I then raised the other end of the pallet until the first end made contact with the floor. This allowed me to use a much shorter ramp.
Dang Jason. I check in every few months to see how you’re doing. Incredibly happy for you brother
Nice saw, awesome video. Can’t wait for the future videos to come out!!!
Thanks 👍
I keep form telling you thank you for your service.
Great boss, your equipment and methods are very high quality, greetings from Indonesia
Great choice Jason! unloading was well calculated, but you need to be friends some neighbors just in case.😄. My Epilog Pro 48 was almost same size crate and it took 3 of us to unload it from the truck and push it on the sloped driveway to the edge of the garage. However the machine is on the wheels and Epilog includes 2x8 ramps. We could not do it without my neighbor.
I would have loved to have someone here. 🤣
Good replacement. Sliding table saws are a must if you are woodworking every day. And buy the biggest model you can. Felder are brilliant
I have a much older, early 90's Delta Unisaw 52" with an Excalibur sliding table. Not nearly as well built and put together as the Hammer but it is soooo much easier to use with sheet material and even crosscutting lumber. I bought it used from a cabinet maker who "upgraded" to a SawStop....but it got a sliding table add on :-)
Very cool!
Wow what a tab saw congrats on getting it can’t wait to see how it works
You and me both!
Nice video!
I think it's really interesting that you sold your SawStop for this saw. I never sold a SawStop. Rather, I went down the table saw rabbit hole and came to the conclusion that a slider made the most sense for me. I ended up getting precisely the same saw you have. I like the idea that, out of the box, you can do all sorts of things (such as cross cutting) without making jigs. The only jig I recommend you get is a Fritz & Franz. Bedrosian makes a really nice one that you can order. Or, you can make one yourself.
Uncrating was a chore for me. My situation is a bit different as I live on a very steep hill (30 something degrees). After a nerve-racking experience getting the saw into the garage, I made a ramp, but installed the rolling kit while the saw was still on the pallet and then just rolled it down the ramp I video taped the unloading of my saw. I thought about making an uncrating video, but it was ruined by a lot of plumber's crack on my part.
I've been happy with my K3. I'm quite unhappy with my dust collection system, which is next up. I have a very small space. I might replace my K3 at some future date with a KF 700 (slider/shaper combination machine).
David is making me one as we speak actually
Bloody nice piece of kit, that! Want! Cheers from Australia ...
Very nice job. Thanks!
can't wait to see more
Good for you, after some getting used to most of your cuts will be on the left side of the blade rips cuts included😉
Wow, what a beauty
Word to the wise, adjusting to the slider from a cabinet saw takes some getting use to. When I first got my slider (a Felder) I wondered if I had made a huge mistake. I felt like a complete novice again. Hang in there it gets better I promise, and then you will absolutely love it. Please check out the Extreme Woodworker, helped me immensely. Don't wait to long before making a Fritz & Franz jig. Best wishes with your new saw.
Just checked him out, That dude has a Martin saw which is insanely expensive. Appears he's packed out with Festool as well. That man doesn't play about.
I have a slider on my 20+ year old Ryobi BT3000. I think it is a neat little hobby version. I love the euro pro hammer versions, that would be the step up I would take, probably the 31 x 31 size.
I would go with the K3 comfort at least. The outrigger makes cutting sheet good way easier
Congrats. I don’t have enough room for one of those, but I thought about it.
It came with enough free wood to make a project lol
😂😂😂😂😂
It's all wet pressure treated lumber. Not something you want to run on your new cast iron surfaces.
Yah except it’s kinda crap
Pretty obvious its a huge upgrade from the sawstop. Must be a blast to use this.
Hello, congrats for the new toy !! You must be thrilled, as it seems to be a great addition to your shop, specially for cabinet making. I recently purchased a very similar machine (B3 perform), along with the A3-41 and the N4400 to upgrade my own. Did you decide to changing the layout of your shop with the new slider ? If not, would you mind sharing what it does look like ?
Congrats on the new saw and continued success. Going from Incra Fence to the Felder standard fence.... interested in your thoughts.
I'm so excited to see an established RUclips make a move to a slider!
If I had the cash, I would definitely purchase one. A slider and common sense removes the need of the saw stop function!
Can't wait to see your review whenever you feel comfortable enough to do so!
So excited!!!
I don't recall if this is the same model as the one in Marius Hornberger's video. I think his was the BASIC model. But he had some great long term review and modifications that he suggested. I believe Hammer incorporated them into their line up. May be worth checking out.
I'm familiar with Hornberg's videos. He has the basic model. He did a video recently reviewing the saw after a year. The conclusion: he likes the saw, but wishes he had gotten the version we see here (the K3 Winner). The Basic model has an inferior fence and the table isn't nearly as long.
Marius identified a flaw in the design of the stop for the rear (smaller) cross cut fence. It can change its position over time, so your fence can become out of square. The only thing that really pisses me off about Felder (besides the outrageous wait times for their machines) is the fact that the same defective stop is still sold on the machines. You can see it on the machine from this video! They sell a modified version of the stop that fixes the problem Marius identified, but they don't include it as standard. Jerks.
I just Uncrated my K3. For those without a pallet Jack I simply added the mobility kit laid two long 2x4s parallel to the crate, then ran shorter 2x4s perpendicular and used that as a make shift ramp. Took me 30 min. Taking apart the pallet, well that was a whole other ordeal!
Im keen to hear how you are getting on with your K3 Winner and your N4400. I have ordered my A3-31 after watching your video on your A3-41, and was sold! I am going to look at ordering an N4400 and either the K3 Winner, or B3 Winner Comfort, but am keen to see your thoughts and impressions on yours. Loving your content!!
Oh, one more thing. A few weeks ago I was in Munich. I had a few days to spare, so I drove to Hall in Tirol where the Felder factory is. My sales rep (in Sacramento) organized a tour for me. The tour was excellent. One thing I learned: you could have had your saw painted to a custom color!
Painted a custom color? That's such a little detail that's really cool I'll keep that in mind
Yes I was surprised to find out all of there tools are completely customizable.
As always, great review!!! Lots of tips to make note of.
Did you consider other sliding table saws, either from Felder/Hammer or other? If so, what made this the right fit? I'm at that point of my purchase and interested in what your criteria were.
Thanks and keep going!!!
You're going to love that saw.
I think so too
I have a hammer c3. It’s awesome.
Cool tool!
Great video again. Always heard great things about the Hammer products. How were the installation instructions compared to the sawstop? you have to admit their instructions are top notch.
I love my sliding table saw. I think you will like it. I use the sliding feature so much.
I’m really excited to have it in the shop now
SawStop isn't available here, except for the Festool battery tablesaws but there is not a chance that I'd ever switch back to a basic cabinet saw without a panel saw attachment. Recently I bought a K540s, best purchase in a long time.
I always wanted this type of saw, I got sawstop simply because it was easy to buy and cheaper, I’m still wishing for slide saw since I’m not 100% satisfied with professional cabinet saw.
I bought my sliding table saw in 1984, 12"' 3 hp triple belt drive. Would not be without a sliding table saw.
I have a new ( 6 months ago) Saw Stop Job Site Saw for space saving use and portability.
while I am in process of building another shop. Much of my equipment is in temporary storage.
I swallowed the safety feature kool aid and paid an obscene amount of money for a
sub standard quality saw. Looking back I would have bought the far superior Makita at
$1000 and saved $500 and considerable grief in dealing with Saw Stop "customer service".
The first one I bought was grossly defective. Cured me, I'll not deal with them again.
Worst customer service I have encountered in a tool related company in 30 plus years as
a professional wood worker/furniture maker.
Congrats on the new saw. Looking forward to the next video, I am in a frame of mind to get a newer sliding saw.
Very cool
Happy to see Felder and Hammer getting some US exposure. The both make excellent tools
When I lived in Germany, I never got an explanation, no one seemed to know, but in Germany, Hammer means awesome.
Excited for this change
everything I've seen says great equipment but, then you see the same people complaining about service/warranty and delay in getting replacements. so seems great if you end up not having problems but impression i get is felder support sucks for the hammer.
@@no_goo Felder is widely known (especially in Europe) for their poor customer service. Unless you are a regular buyer, if you have a problem, it´s your fault 90% the time.
Once you go to a slider you'll never go back. Happy finesse and accuracy. Make sure you take the time to make to make high quality cross cut and outfield tables.
I was just looking at the Felder 500 the other day! I think I'll also be going with a slider vs. a Sawstop.
I’m really excited to see how this will change things for me.
@@bentswoodworking I know you're sponsored, but did you have a choice between the K3 and 500? The 500 comes with the X-Roll and they're the same price.
Awesome!😄 slider FTW!
Best thing I ever put in the shop
I wish I had a Euro sliding table saw for sure. I have second best, an Oliver 280 with an Excalibur sliding table. Pretty darn good, but not as nice as a modern slider. I too can't understand how so many of us American's don't have sliders, except that there are already so many great Euro saws available. Another piece of equipment that most small commercial or dedicated hobbyists seem to not get as soon as they should are wide belt sanders. Sure, I can understand how folks can't have the power to run a 37" wide belt sander, (including DC) but there are great small wide belts, open ended 16", that while not as precise as closed both ends, they make pre-sanding all parts so simple and enjoyable.
I think it has to do with the price I had to look up what this saw cost and the smaller of the three variations 31x31 was slightly less than $6000 excluding taxes and shipping. Unless you are looking for an Industrial model that seems way out the league of a small shop and dedicated hobbyists. Also they need a larger area to work in. When I win the lottery I will put in a order, because they sure look like a gem to use.
this is what dreams are made of ! but the price tag, definitely not for the average DIY guy out there! But good ogd that saw seems fun to work with!!
I think if it were me, I’d have bought a saw with a scribe saw mounted ahead of the main saw blade to avoid chip out on melamine sheet material.
It’s the one limitation that I miss on My Robland X31 combination machine.
I owned a Altendorf Tilting Arbor Panel Saw in a previous cabinet making life for 20 years, and it had the scribe saw.
Downsizing to the Robland X31, I really find myself missing that scribe saw.
I’ll probably buy upgrade the Robland X31 to something with another scribe saw at some point in the future.
This does have a scoring blade I just haven’t received it yet
Damn, that's a behemoth!
I could make that pallet if I had a saw like that. 🤪 Congrats on the saw. Not jealous at at all!
🤣🤣
funny. I sold my Hammer K3 for a sawstop. The Hammer was a great saw but a lack of aftermarket accessories convinced me to get the SS with the slider. Best of both worlds.
Update... I'm moving soon and will selling the SS to get a Felder 500 Professional. The slider is not the same and the cross cut fence is a pain and in the way when I am ripping.
I have zero intentions of ever getting a saw like this. But I am interested in seeing how you use it in your shop and what you think about it. I’m still hoping to upgrade my old Delta cabinet saw to a Sawstop. I’ve always been fascinated by the slider saws though. A friend in town has an older one that I would love to get my hands on. He doesn’t do woodworking anymore. But he hasn’t been able to part with the saw.
I’m excited to learn how to get the most out of it. You’re welcome to come by and check it out anytime Angie
Smart move! I have a Felder K700S and will never have another American cabinet saw again. It’s just too versatile.
I'm surprised it wasn't all tore up shipping with XPO. Believe me I work for them. 😂
This is going to be a good series! Do you have a sense for how much space is needed for this saw?
Welcome to the world of sliding table / panel saws.
Hi, I was just wondering what type of video editing software you use. Great videos by the way!!!
Nice video and saw, Jason. Curious though about your criteria in choosing this brand over all the other sliding table saw offerings out there? Looking fwd to your next video showing use of this saw in your shop.
I have had a very positive experience with the jointer planer and that was the reasoning for expanding my hammer machines.
@@bentswoodworking I'm sure you're feeling like it's X'mas about now, with your new big boy's toy. I'm sure it will serve you well.
I can see a Hammer fan here ;)
I see you have the N4400. I got the 510b recently. Not sure if I should have gone with the N4400 instead. Oh well.
Great saw! Those "European" slider saws, I say that because it's really rare to see them over in the states, are really great! I have the SawStop slider extension on my PCS now, but SawStop really hasn't quite "caught on" to the slider process in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, the SawStop is a great saw but I think you chose very wisely with this saw.
I really want a Sawstop, if for nothing other than my wife likes to help or make her own projects and we are homeschool our sons and Shop class is definitely a focus. I want a slider for my Cabinetry business and was excited to find Sawstop makes their own system. Would I be better off getting a slider or is Sawstops slider good enough?
@@dakotacorvin4756 if you have kids then I think the SawStop is always a good idea. Keep in mind they build different models, but the model that is going to fit the compound miter slide is the PCS. It's a good system.
how many square feet of room in a workshop do you need to operate this well? With the sawstop, for example, you need room in front of the saw, behind it (outfeed table?), and to each side. jUst wondering if this would be a good addition for my limited space?
Wow that’s an involved assembly. Hope it is as good as the sawstop. Was it a lighter unit?
why is your workshop so clean and nice? ..... :-)
I clean up at the end of the day
I assume the need for the slider out weighed the accuracy of the Incra set up? See anyway to incorporate it into this saw?
I use a pannel saw in work, there is nothing like it as long as you have the space.
It takes up a lot of realastate
This particular one takes up a lot less than I thought it would prior to looking at one in person
I hope it will be everything you expect it to be
Me too
I’ve had my K3 for 4 years or so. After year 2 I ended up with a small job site sawstop for certain cuts the K3 doesn’t do well.
I think a great setup is both a slider and a traditional cabinet saw front to front like Ramon does. 2saws same square footage.
Couple tips,
buy Ramon’s zero clearance insert, so much better than fielders
Magnets on the inside of the hand wheel will save frustration
3d printed nuts for the table so you can make your own clamp setup.
I’m glad to see you buy this, means other creators are probably gonna do the same so my saw just went up in value! Been thinking about switching to a 9 foot Felder slider since the 5x5 sheets these are designed for are hard to get these days.
Jason, thanks for a great walkthrough. I’ve been looking at switching as well over to Hammer from my Grizzly slider to have a longer slider. Did you consider getting the slider/shaper combo? I’ve been really debating that as it would save me some space of my current 1.5 hp Grizzly shaper. With the different spindles it can be used as either a shaper or router table replacement.
I have the full combo c 3 31 with jointer /planer, shaper and saw. Love it. If u plan to use a shaper I recommend it
Congrats for the new saw but a SCM SC2 would have been a better buy. Full cast-iron saw assembly for the SCM vs just welded steel for the Hammer.
Nope, there’s no dado on a scm sc2
Bent is your K3 not come with the latest version of the 90 degree stop for your crossed cut miter fence?
,a cool video keep up the great content.. Thank you……
Thanks, will do!
@@bentswoodworking Thank you very mutch... have a nice day.... see you….
Hi I have the Hammer B3 winner comfort (combi model with router), i wonder what brand & types of blades have you used so far? I've been using the Felder blades only so far and I wonder if you have used different ones and your opinion about them.
Hi Jason! Are you about to share some thoughts after been using the Hammer for some time. 🎉
Wonderful..!!! Go felder...!! (what did you do with your Incra fence?)
I sold it with the sawstop