EVs vs Internal Combustion Engines: 2023 Cradle To Grave Study Debunks Myths!
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- Опубликовано: 20 июл 2023
- Which is ultimately best for the environment? A brand new Cradle-to-Grave study compares Electric Cars to Internal Combustion Engine Cars and reveals surprising results!
Link to report fairfueluk.com/MAG-ABD-FFUK/
In this eye-opening video, I delve deep into the battery-powered Electric Vehicle (EV) versus Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) debate. I take a comprehensive look at the research conducted by Fair Fuel UK, ABD (Alliance of British Drivers), and MAG (Motorcycle Action Group).
Discover the surprising findings that challenge the popular notion of EVs being environmentally superior. From CO2 emissions to manufacturing processes, we uncover the truth about the ecological impact of both vehicle types. Don't miss this thought-provoking discussion that aims to separate fact from fiction in the world of automotive technology.
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Brown Car Guy
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Here is the report fairfueluk.com/MAG-ABD-FFUK/
Based on flawed data
The researcher who claimed 380,000 later reset that to 150,000 and then refused to discuss his model
Other studies all point at 24,000 worse case break even based on a very dirty grid
@@maxsec2 Which if you can count is clearly nonsense.
That report also doesn't include the difference in damage to roads when cars are all half a tonne heavier - or the lower payload and towing rates which mean the cars would have to be much larger and heavier again to offer the same ability.
You'll note cars are heavier than 20 years ago.... So what ?
Glad you agree the reports is based on flawed analysis so we can ignore the findings in it
I’m sure the BBC will do their utmost to make sure the general public doesn’t hear about this.
Rest assured that I'm here watching it on RUclips mainstream TV is dead to me!
I bet the Mainstream will most definitely do their absolute best to hide this report from the nation! Because they support the smoke screen of the go green agenda!
EV’s are not the long term solution by any stretch of the imagination..
I will happily stay with my 3.0 diesel for a long term yet. #no to EV
The BBC just wouldn't be doing their job if they allowed the public to know the truth.
They're too busy trying to bully people who haven't watched live television in over a decade to pay them a tv licence..
The BBC are a complete shower. Their main focus is punching ’climagedon’ down the general publics throats. It’s embarrassing.
100% behind you! I've been saying the same things for 4 or 5 years now.. I am an electrical engineer and it bothers me where the government gets its advice from!
It comes out of the back pocket. He who pays the piper calls the tune.
WEF, elites who are heavily invested in so called green energy, is where orders are coming from.
Advice from the WEF globalist cabal scumbags
Advice comes from a organisation in Switzerland run by a man called Klaus and it also comes from people who assume that because they a degree in nature studies they are climate experts.
They get their advice from idiots like themselves
My nephew works for Cupra, he said ev drivers are now returning their electric cars and swapping for petrol.
I bet they are loosing a heck of a lot of £££ in the process. Lot of people have been conned by all this.
I have a friend who works for Hyundai and he says the opposite 🤣
I think the negative press around Xmas time was a catalyst for people swapping back or not ordering EVs , I'm not against them but the infastructure is far from ready and costs far too much . Even a home charger is a grand plus. Fitting it's just not viable to change in a cost of living crisis .
@@stevefinch8519 A grand??? My work bought a plug in one for about £150 to charge the company van. Charged it overnight. They could have bought a fast charger for £300 but didn't spend the money. This was in 2019. Has the market changed that much or are you talking a pro installation?
Utter bollocks
Betamax was actually a better product than VHS. But due to clever marketing and a number of greased palmes VHS became the standard. Similarly to EV being forced down our throats as a greener product when evidently it isn't.
Actually it not really true, Beta had better quality recordings when launched but the recording tape lengths were smaller and the Beta recorders did not have timers, eventually longer tapes were released but this reduced quality recordings, Sony also eventually put timers on their machines but VHS had better timers and longer recording times. Also Sony (beta) refused to licence their product while JVC (VHS) allowed other manufactures to produce VHS products and so there was greater choice.
Also VHS machines were a little bit cheaper.
the main reason why VHS became the standard was because the hardware was cheaper.
@@markm-ci6rjya lives n learn's..
The real reason VHS won is because they put LP options on their machines. Betamax didn't think people would want lower quality recordings so didn't include it. But in the early days tapes were often not long enough to record an entire movie if it was a long one, and people were fed up with missing the end of a movie they recorded. LP gave people a chance to record more stuff and fit everything onto one tape, thus doubling the capacity, and was accepted for things where the quality wasn't that important, such as an East Enders omnibus. By the time Betamax released longer tapes it was too little too late as everyone had already switched.
To be Fair ITS UP TO US TO MAKE SURE THIS GOES VIRAL. WTF WE GOT TO LOSE? EVERYTHING HENCE WE HAVE EVERY THING TO GAIN!!!
What is there to gain?
@@neilbrandon Our freedom back. Blink for too long and it's gone. I myself think it's already too late. The public are too dumb, apathetic and kept in the dark and misinformed by powerful forces. This report will be buried.
You could try a holidaying in Rhodes to see what everyone's got to lose, if this half-baked nonsense overrides the facts that are being ignored through misinformation such as this. That's if you want to believe the scientific evidence and do some proper research.
@@neilbrandonmoney
There are a lot of things that should go viral nowadays.
I have written this before but I am glad there was a mention about all the other products that come from the petrochemical industry. Essentially in the making of everything from ship oil, paints, aviation fuel, plastics, solvents etc etc, petrol is a by product. I.e to make all these things you do so by removing petrol by essentially boiling it off to be left with these other products. Net result is you cannot make any of these other things without making petrol. So unless you change literally everything on planet earth from the clothes you are currently wearing and pretty much everything you are touching or looking at right this moment, and nobody is using petrol because we have been forced into EV cars, then what on earth will we do will these billions of gallons of petrol left over from the processing of all these products. I can see it now. There will be power stations built to burn the petrol to charge EV cars. Oh the irony.
Where do you live? Here in the UK, no power stations will be built to power EVs, especially as reduced oil use will significantly reduce electricity consumption. There is an obvious pro-petroleum argument for the plastic and chemical industries until alternatives are found, but the argument for burning fossil fuels for energy, heat, and transport is dwindling year on year.
We have little choice but to use what is available to us now, but we have no choice as to whether we transition away from burning fossil fuels in the future or not. People are starting to wake up to the effects of climate change after 5 decades of ridiculing the supporters of climate science. The central issue is, can we change quickly enough to stave off the worst of climate change, or is it actually too late!? Looking at the rate, it has been accelerating in the last decade or so, I have my doubts.
You should make a video about this! it is an often overlooked fact of oil products that people need to know.
Great video & report - I do less than 1000 mile per year (the average cycle of my 1998 Subaru Forester is 34.7 mph; CO2 emissions sit at 154g/km - 0.164 tonnes per year)) with my 28-year-old car 1 or 2 days a week. mostly to get a week's supply of food or to the doctor/hospital...Now that the expansion is coming to Croydon. This is just a money-grab exercise or forcing people to buy a compliant car. Considering that the emission cost of building my car was 28 years ago.... Statistics say a new EV car creates 19 tonnes (19000g) of CO2 over the course of its life, but a far higher proportion (46 percent) of its emissions come during its production. So I would have to continue using my existing car for more than 20+ years to come close to the emissions of a New EV. So how does this help the world? All you are doing is moving a % of those emissions to the electrical power station as 'green energy' is yet to catch up.
Electric vehicles are anew sauce of business for investors and can open new Avenues in other countries, I.e. the mining of raw materials to build them, (often done by children) in the long run, it would seem that 'E' vehicles from birth to grave are more of a pollutant than a petrol vehicle and not to mention the loss of a child's life mining the raw materials. 😮
@@chrisdobbing3403i don't care what anyone says, nobody's parting me from my petrol cars and 2 stroke motorcycles, they'll have to kill me first.
@@chrisdobbing3403 . You are referring to Cobalt here, which is used extensively in the refining of oil, so there's no getting away from that issue unless you don't run a car at all.
@@MDM1992 same as fella. Life whithout crackling expansion chambers is a life not worth living! All the best to ya....
@@MDM1992 Or fuel will become more difficult to find. Shell stated in their last business report that they plan to cut petrol and diesel production by 40% on the lead up to 2030. They haven't yet said what their production projections are , post 2030........
You are dead right about EV longevity. I was an early adopter and my electric vehicle is now 7 years 4 months old. It has done 34k miles in that time and has lost a third of it's battery capacity and range since I bought it new. I will not be buying another one. The fact is all lithium ion batteries degrade over time and use cycles because of dendrite formation, whereas ice vehicles do not !
I also have a 15 year old diesel Mercedes and a 19 year old petrol mx5, neither of which has lost any range whatsoever, the diesel still having a brimmed range of 650 miles.
In my experience then the carbon of manufacture is 2 EV cars worth for one of an ice car because they last twice as long before they are not economically viable to keep any longer.
Is your EV not warrantied for 70% of range or 8 years, whichever is sooner? A great deal has happened in the last 7 years and 4 months. Although, early Teslas have not suffered anything like a third degradation in over 200k miles. Long-term data from Tesla shows 12% degradation after 200k miles on their Model S and X. I have also seen numerous early EVs like the Nissan Leaf with 60 or 70k miles on them with less degradation than your car. For a while, I thought of buying a Leaf and looked at quite a few.
Oh, and by the way, the life cycle carbon on an EV has been proven to be lower than an ICE, even if it's charged on electricity from coal power stations.
@@FullFact548 citations absolutely required.
@@BlokeOnAMotorbike OCTOBER 26, 2017
"Electric cars emit less CO2 over their lifetime than diesels even when powered with dirtiest electricity - study
Electric vehicles emit less greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions than diesel engine cars - even when powered by the most carbon intensive electricity, a new independent study has found. EVs will emit even less as more renewable electricity enters the grid, according to an analysis of the lifecycle emissions of the vehicles conducted by VUB university in Brussels for NGO Transport & Environment (T&E)."
@FullFact548 this new study would seem to gazump this, one of them is right.
My last car I owned for 11 years, it ran on LPG and had 268000 miles on the clock before I sold it for scrap due to rust last year.
The engine is currently getting fitted into another car.
No EV can compete imo.
This video was amazing. There is some great information in there and I can understand why we need to get the gov to change the way they think. Great video 👍
Get rid of gov !!!
@@davidbarrs9721 that's something that I feel won't make a difference. The priminister are just puppets on a very long string. It's the people holding the strings that need to be changed and got rid of.
Yet another great video sir. Really interesting and thought provoking.
Glad you enjoyed it
Very good report. Hope it quietens down the EV lobby.
Btw I lost count of the number of cyclists that went through that crossing on red.
Really? 🤣🤣🤣
Er, the red light is for pedestrians though.
@@robertbox5399 So pedestrians have to stop at the lights but traffic have no opposing lights. What do you mean by that?
@andyaccount They're mutually exclusive. Red for cars means green for pedestrians etc. We all know cyclists do their own thing of course.
If you look carefully fella you’ll see the red for traffic with the countdown for pedestrians but cyclists rolling through. On red
One thing I would like to say regarding on the copper for the motors for electric vehicles. Is that we use 21.8 million metric tons of copper in 2015 and this is still growing.
Also for towing like caravans, you can use up to 50% more battery power
Jcb have made a hydrogen engine by converting the old engine from a digger. And is working with great success. Me personally I think hydrogen is the way to go
Why not just use synthetic fuels. It can go in the tanks at petrol stations and go in the same cars. This on the face of it must be better than building more power stations and laying more cables. We have no infrastructure for hydrogen either
@robertdrinkwater7514 both synthetic and hydrogen are the way to go as you can create both synthetic and hydrogen fuels from carbon capturing process. I actually saw a report that gas companies are going to start distribution of hydrogen for road vehicles across the UK. Some of the synthetic E-fuels actually contain hydrogen in them as well.
Look at synthetic fuel ,
@@robertdrinkwater7514 Are you aware of the cost of synthetic fuels? You can buy Aspen synthetic petrol today in Britain. It costs around £30 per gallon..... Very little additional capacity will be needed to cope with electric car adoption. The UK's oil refineries already use around 6kw of electricity to produce *each one* of the 14 million gallons of petrol and 11 million gallons of diesel they refine each day. And if we're all driving EV's, then we won't be using petrol or diesel, will we? Few electric cars will need charging more than once per week, with the UK's average daily commute being 20.8 miles, and the average UK motorway trip being 70 to 80 miles.
@@bentullett6068 The problem there is that both hydrogen and synthetic fuels will still need to be transported all over the place, to where they are used, which will mean CO2 is produced, just as it is now with fuel tankers. We need to get away from all that. Electricity needs no transportation, as it uses the existing grid..... And ironically, both a hydrogen filling point, and a synthetic fuel pump *need* an electricity supply......
I've heard that dealers try to NOT take EV's over 2 years old in for part exchange.
Two years ago I told my son that "in the future ONLY the rich will be driving on the road! this confirms it!
You'd better hope that never happens, because if it does, we'll all be paying *much* more in taxes. Because those who are not rich VASTLY outnumber those who are, and the Government just will not be able to raise the taxes it needs *just* from the rich.....
Wow, with such unbiased producers of this report, it can only be fair and trustworthy... 🙄
I'll bet there were very few EV's caught fire in France recently.
The cause of the fire or exernal influences have to be taken into account too imo
Cars in general don't just catch fire, there's always cause.
The few that do, the fault is usually electrical before fuel or oil leaks.
Great work, once again Mr BrownCarGuy. Thanks!
As I work in the garden machinery industry we have machinery out there that are battery powered. We are finding domestic occasional users buy battery items more than those who are professional users like councils etc. My boss had spoken to the local authority we deal with about if the council are planning to go EV on machinery and vehicle's and they said not a chance as they would have to install another electrical generation substation on site to power all of the vans, bin wagons and tools like mowers and even construction machinery if they went battery.
Some other local authorities in the UK have gone down the route of battery powering their equipment and have found they can't always get a full days work out of the equipment and have to call in a outside contractor with internal combustion engine machinery to finish the jobs off they couldn't finish.
This analysis needs shoving under the nose of every politician!!!!!!!!! NOW.
Definitely old cars are best for the environment, my Peugeot 306 1.6 which is nearly 23 years old is running really well .
I agree 👍. I drive a 23yr old Classic Mini Cooper Sport,runs beautifully & it's just a joy to drive. We are definitely recycling & saving the planet by keeping these 'old' classic cars on the road. Drive safely 💚🇬🇧.
@@joolzhillman4385 and they are more fun to drive and cheaper to repair
Definitely, there's to much Tec on modern cars.
I've got a 10 year old car with 40,000 miles on the clock. My daughter has a 15 year old car with 60,000 miles on the clock. An electric car makes no sense for low mileage drivers as the battery will have reached end of life before the break even point is reached based on the figures presented in this video.
Well done one and all
After tomorrow's ULEZ protest (Saturday 22/07/23, 12 noon to 3 pm) o/s BBC Broadcasting House, Portland Place, W1A 1AA, London, I hope to send a copy of the coverage of that event by Brown Car Guy, and the link to this video to the nine Conservative London Assembly Members at City Hall.
Remember the old Saying "The road to Hell is paved with Good Intentions" - in this case the transport is electric!
It’s so obvious and equally so frustrating how much brainwashing works on my fellow humans, I truly believing these people are walking us back into serfdom 😢
we've been vassals for a thousand years
Thank you so much for this informative video and access to the report as well. Best wishes.
Fantastic report. I've been saying this for years and am constantly mocked. Now I have faith that common sense will prevail.
Spoiler alert: It won't. This report will change nothing. I've seen people debunk the EV myth time and time again. They get ignored, shut down, smeared and the con goes on. Because it was never about the environment. Follow who benefits from it all for the answers.
Great clip!! Excellent research! As ex-futurist, already mid 1990, I was asked to provide LCA's (life cycle analysis), what you call cradle/grave, of futuristic products to estimate their 'validity'... to invest for our corporate management. From handheld devices, computers, roads, cars, you name it. Like EVs now I found a lot of opposition then by opposing making all electric devices 'portable (battery reliant)'. Simply in modern society, the plug to play distance is too short, a simple wired device, is cheaper, more reliable and less environmental polluting. Electrifying our lives, incl. EVs etc, would demand every (copper) wire in the grid to be quadrupled. Already then it became clear that not LCA, not the environment, were important, the hidden political agenda, how (quick, continue & less obvious) can the company (today also a government) make profit. Confidentially was rife, hence today it is important to continually expose the misrepresentations the people are given, about electrification (EVs...), the environment (climate fear...)and digitisation (digital id... currency...)! Democracy is faltering, more and more bladerunners are needed to curb todays governments to steer industries (CEOs to hedgefunds) that the people (demands) are deciding what is relevant, not the technology's push they (the 1% priveliged) want, just to line their pockets. Thanks for this great upload!
You said the most important thing Shahzad, we have to keep open minds on this subject, it maybe that we have to look to combine the technologies such as EV, hydrogen, biofuel technologies and net zero fuels like Porsche are working on in Chile. It’s not right to have two camps, EV vs ICE, now more than ever we need to pull together to protect our right to free movement. Otherwise before long, we’ll be cut off from our families in a truly Orwellian fashion.
One hundred percent!
Lots of ICE cars are still running 30 years later, perhaps even 50 years later. Rechargeable batteries are said to last perhaps seven years.
I drive a 34 year old car - my E30 BMW. 🤩
me too, a 1989 Volvo
my Buick Lesabre turned 20yrs old this year, and has less than half its useful mils on it, and everything still works, looks great too. and I get 36mpg in winter, and 44mpg in summer.
My daily (believe it or not) is a 1976 Austin Allegro. I'd love to see an EV last that long.
It was once also *said* that the earth was flat, that man would never fly, and the human body would disintegrate if it ever travelled in excess of 30 mph....... The usual problem here, is that those who often *say* such things, don't actually have *any* experience of electric car ownership.....
So EVs old batteries go to landfill !! Well they could put them in the same landfill sites as the Wind Turbine blades and Solar Panels, THIS IS NOT GREEN AT ALL it's Madness..
Not when you set your ££££££££ for the future. Who gives a fuck right?
The EV batteries I watched being recycled in the RUclips video of Volkswagen's battery recycling plant in Zwickau, Eastern Germany, certainly were not going into landfill. God knows where you keep hearing this bollox..
@@Brian-om2hh it’s in a new report that’s just come out yesterday it is proving to be too expensive to recycle and could only be done once so it’s now cheaper just to make new ones, just like the recycling we do at home, then ends up in landfill
There's a very interesting video on Thunderf00ts channel about how Elon increased the capacity of Tesla batteries by making the cross sectional area of the battery cells bigger. No actual technical improvement at all, just the equivalent of changing AAA batteries for AA batteries.
Hes good at changing things,mainly crap into billions.
Agreed, Musk is a con man, this is why I went with Kia (with a 7 year warranty) and instead of the Tesla Powerwall, my home battery is Givenergy LiFePO4
The way EVs are built will not be the same by end of decade.
Mr Musk can't even sell his stock. Apparently another huge discount scheme is on the way so he can easily clear the build up of unsold stock. BMC/British Leyland did a similar tactic when they sold the original mini as Ford at the time studied the manufacture and engineering of the car and found the price they were selling the mini for didn't actually make any profit to cover the manufacture.
@@mikezappaThe man who wants to build city on Mars a conman? I am shocked 😅
Thank you Shazhad... Will be putting this out on my SM accounts.
Cars should have big picture cradle to grave rating of CO2+noise+pollution+safety+cost+infrastructure = number. Then we can make a comparisons when buying.
Interesting comments about constructing an electric vehicle. I would be very happy to see more bespoke constructors out there.
Don't fall into the trap of using the phrase "EV revolution". That's a world economic Forum term.
Another great video that provides much food for thought. I bought an EV earlier this year due to commute into the forthcoming expansion to the ULEZ zone. But I have kept my 20 year old E39 which provides amazing mileage especially on longer trips. I totally. agree with the comment that EVs are great from a health point of. view. All of my short trips are in the EV as I hate firing up the ICE vehicles which barely get time to warm up. But on a long journey, ICE is my preferred option. I think that each vehicle has its place. I also borrow. my daughter's VW Up which is incredible to park and gives 60 mpg, but not practical when there are more than 2 of us.
This is great. You're doing it right. People misunderstand me (deliberately I think sometimes) but you totally understood what I was saying!
Another potential issue with BEVs is that as new vehicles are pushed out and changes are made to battery packs, will vehicles in need of replacement batter packs be compatible with them. I can foresee perhaps many mechanically good vehicles ending up being broken simply because manufacturers don’t make those packs any more, one or more minerals within it are seen as harmful.
This report needs to be sent to every home.
Who pays for that then?
Thank you very much for all you do take care and mind your phone out side
I did ask on another video what can an EV do that an ICE car cant. ie they are better for heavy weights, going longer distances, a bigger car for the same money, etc. The only answer I got was zero emissions by someone. Guess this is blown out by this report.
Those type of people only say that to sound virtuous. I bet they don't actually care. For many people it's about status. Those that own Teslas often own the latest iphone.
Where can we get hold of that report?
Is there a download for it?
At last someone talking about the problems that are going to affect the younger generation who think we will make the world a better place for having EVs
I had a 2.0 litre Subaru estate AWD, and used it in my refrigeration business, That car completed up to 228,000 miles in the use i had it for, before it became too cost effective to repair and run. during the time i used it it only ever required a new clutch, and one rear wheel bearing, plus the usual servicing. an EV would never last that long without costing probably the cost of a new EV every three years.
Excellent video. Thank you!!
I think the ev is desirable to people because it’s a digital car. It goes along with your digital tv and phone. Regular cars are seen to be analogue. Their engines are still 20c. So it’s the desire to live in an entirely digitised world. That’s all.
Brown Car Guy, thank you for your videos
Thank you for your work Brown Car Guy .
Doesn’t all this greenwashing of cars all look like politicians may have their fingers in the pies of the car industry. Instead of a car being simple and reasonably priced , force people to pay unreasonable taxes or bye very expensive cars and trigger a new industry we can invest in.
Great report, cheers for the break down of it.
I know EV's are supposed to be safe but nearly everyone I've asked has nearly been run over and a few actually hit by EV's, not sure if its because our brains can't associate the varied noises they make as opposed to internal combustion noises, or the drivers assuming others are aware of them or assume their vehicles tech will take action if required.
Perhaps they could employ someone to run in front of them, waving a flag, as back when ICE was introduced...
the main game changers would be:
- better source of renewable energy (nuclear / ...)
- better energy storage standard (10-100x that of lion batteries)
- recycling of (lion) batteries (currently "just an afterthought")
- using the above for manufacturing of EVs
that's just my layman's PoV
- recycling of (lion) batteries (currently "just an afterthought")
as i understand it its not just an afterthought to recycle it but very difficult and much more polluting than to refine it with evaporation ponds etc
Makes perfect sense, I think we always knew that!
Very balanced presentation, thank you
I’m so glad you thought so. Thank you. 🙏🏽☺️
There are a growing number off startup companies that re-use batteries from ev's to provide backup power, Check out the fully charged show on this. Ev's batteries don't die but their capacity drops over time and after 10 years they still retain over 80% of their original capacity. They are racked into containers which are able to provide backup power for the grid.
This is true. I have mentioned this in previous videos. I suppose the concern is when we scale up to much bigger numbers of EVs, and also keeping in mind the recent developments from the insurance industry, where they are readily writing off EVs because the cost of repair is too high. This is becoming a big problem.
Very few though... the issue is if one battery pack is slightly faulty and catches on fire, as it can do, the entire lot will. Add in the fact that many car manufacturers are now using adhesive to mount the batteries, making the packs impossible to remove without damaging the pack.
@khalidacosta7133 Manufacturers are doing that to save weight and cost as the battery pack becomes structural and reduces materials for strengthening the chassis
@@BrownCarGuyYes, insurance companies never take a risk. There is no reason a repair on an EV has to be more expensive than on an ICE, unless the battery or high voltage system are affected. Battery packs can be safely repaired unless seriously damaged and considering the 5 star Euro NCAP ratings most of them receive are very safe in the event of an accident. Battery recycling is a fast growing industry with, I believe, 3 plants in the UK already. Around 35kg of the materials are lost during the recycling process, which is small in comparison to the 300-500 kg weight of a battery pack.
That is all well and good for niche uses with the currently limited number of used batteries, but simply not scalable if EVs replaced the ICE vehicles on the road today.
And whilst those used batteries might have a few more years of viable use powering something else, it just delays a little, the inevitable disposal.
Just wait until the idiots that converted cherished classic cars realise, the batteries they paid £15,000+ for are not immortal and that market will disappear.
The eggs in one basket is the perfect analogy the current philosophy is not a long term environmentally sound. Future transport should include EVs, Hybrids, Hydrogen and ICE vehicles thus ensuring appropriate fuel for the environment that vehicle is in.
Agree
Went to fair fuel UK cant see this report anywhere for download?
I remeber a number of years ago the gov where pushing LPG and a number of garages where stocking it. Now I dont see 1 garage holding it?????
LPG is winding down. Shell are decommissioning all their LPG assets in the UK..... LPG is a filthy fuel. The emissions produced at the refining stage are horrendous.....
Before mass production of EVs , manufacturers should be made liable for recycling their batteries. At the moment there is no responsibility for pollution created by dumping them into landfill. We already drinking lithium in our tap water for sure. It's a crime
Only a complete and utter fruitcake would place old EV batteries into landfill, as they are worth good money. You can't have done much research here, because both Volkswagen and Renault have battery recycling plants in operation. Redwood Industries in the US have also been recycling EV batteries. And a new battery recycling plant has recently opened in the UK. Not really keeping up with developments, are you?
Let the market decide. Multi platforms will benefit every one with a free market leading innovation. In many ways a small EV would suit my needs, except for several times a month I need to transport a bulky load of musical instruments and sports equipment. I will be sticking to my 17 year old diesel estate for as long as possible.
I think many people don't separate the electric motor from the battery powered EV. The electric motor is so much more efficient and to me it is the future technology and the performance of some of these EVs like the Tesla plaid is incredible. The battery on the other hand is difficult to produce and has a limited life and we have not tested this technology on a massive scale so we don't know the sustainability and safety of this.
Excellent article 👏 👍
Excellent video all we need now is 'normal' people in Government to see what is common sense to the rest of us.
This report should have produced years ago!
As a self confessed petrol head, those that think ICE is any better than EVs, feel free to park your car, SUV, Chelsea tractor etc in your garage, wind down the windows, shut the garage door and turn your engine on.
EVs are not as environmentally friendly or as efficient as some make out, but neither are ICEs.
interesting study. i would also point out that brake dust is a huge problem. This is a major problem for trains especially the underground where the dust builds up and is stirred up every time a train passes which humans then breath in. Lithium iron is pretty good for the longest ranges and many countries already have ships converted to LIFO batteries. The transition from the horse and cart to ICE cars was difficult with many opposing it at the time, but it happened. i think there is another factor which helps EV,s and that is regenerative braking where the EV motor slows the car using the Motor instead of the brake pads which eliminates a great deal of brake dust. spoke to a Tesla owner who said the brake pads will never need changing. but i think the biggest saver of lives is going to be driverless cars. human error currently kills 1.35 million people annually. that is a big number.
Well done
great stuff BCG
The battery technology. In fact all technology is going to radically change by the end of the decade.
great job!
I can see ethanol blends being a good way forward it’s something we can grow from plants and extract so it’s renewable that way and would only need minor changes to current ICE engines to be compatible like when 4 star leaded fuel changed to unleaded was valves needing re machining
we need land to grow food,
and not some sort of B/S "eco fuel???"
Another important factor to be considered. In UK the cars fleet is made of 33Mio units. Each year 130K car crashes occur (0,4% of the fleet involved). If the fleet is made of ice most of the damaged car can be repaired and return back to duty. If the fleet is made of ev most of the damaged car can return back to duty only if the pack battery is replaced. The problem is that a crash can provoke point of failures in the battery which could provoke a phenomenon of auto-ignition sometime in the future. This sort of danger in the battery is very difficult to assess and we can expect that in case of auto-ignition an insurance would never accept to refund anything if the battery pack was not replaced even after a very minor crash !!
but didn't you know, having a battery pack makes an ev more safe if you're in a crash, as it will absorb the brunt of the damage 😉 /s (from an actual article point though)
@@xerr0n Brilliant
This report is the EV vs. ICE debate, but what about the debate over enhancing public transport in urban centres? Electric trams left Norwich (where I am, for example) in 1935, in favour of the buses. They only lasted 35 years. Thankfully, here in Norwich, there is a Low Emission zone coming, but local authority have decided to focus on the bus companies (as far as I am aware) not the motorist.
Birmingham has a tram system but compared to the previous 1910's-1950's tram network it isn't reliable.
Copper. Copper is the big problem. Many focus on other minerals and today’s vid was also dragged into that, but as the diagram at 22:34 shows, it’s Copper. The cost of Copper extraction is highly sophisticated now. It will not become cheaper when the market drives greater efforts for extraction. It is a matter of record that from now on (and considering all sources of Copper ore which are now known) Copper will become more and more expensive as the quality of ore (the ore itself, but also inaccessible mining) is ‘degrading’ as set out at the top of the diagram at 22:34 shows. As the first diagram showed, an EV has roughly twice as much copper per vehicle as the equivalent ICE car (measured as delivered copper per vehicle at the manufacturing site). So, it’s Copper, not Lithium or Cobolt (Cobalt isn’t needed now) or whatever. Copper. Look up what’s happening to the price of copper / delivered-metal-kg on the world markets: it’s going up exponentially and new technology can not solve the issue (which it can for Lithium).
Copper is recyclable. It can be reclaimed from obsolete evs.
Couldn’t see anything in the report about the masses of electricity (not clean by the way, 45% gas) to merely pump the oil out of the ground, it then needs pumping or shipping, in dirty diesel shipping, refining, (where cobalt is used to extract the sulphur), it then goes in a diesel tanker to be driven to the forecourt, and then more electricity to pump it into the car, it is then burnt in the engine at 30-40% efficiency, (70% is wasted heat), and the report doesn’t mention how to “recycle” the diesel/petrol. I think the report should cover the whole cycle of a fossil fuel cars, not just the bit that suits, it appears the report misses the extraction of the oil (electricity) and there being no chance to recycle the fuel. The chart of the cars showing minerals, fails to cover the cobalt in the oil refining….very convenient. I’ll let Fully Charged Experts Fact check it as I started to “Glaze over” reading Howard Cox’s piffle. Although I can’t wait to see the Mayoral Elections….I bet he gets a kicking and looses….
sounds interesting but where can I dowload the Full Doc, I cant find it on the MAG Site
Literally just came out, sent to me exclusively. Send them a request for it.
@@BrownCarGuy Thanks for that- I'll Do that
@@keithg1xfl Actually the link for the document is now the description of this video and in a pinned comment.
29:35 Yes, but… the horse was making quite a mess in London at the turn of the last century!
Well exactly
People are missing the basic facts that an EVs have way less moving parts easy and quicker to manufacture using less energy. Never mind improving your surrounding air quality. Manufactures are now realising they can no longer rip off customers for basic engine and gearbox oil changes never mind being on the same brake pads and disks after 5 years due to regen….So the EV backlash begins….
The government loves to move the goalposts. They pushed for us to all own diesels a while back, then it was small economical cars with tiny engines and a turbo, now it's electric. The constant is that the government gets tax from the purchase of every new car, from the companies who make those cars, from the wages of everyone from the truck driver delivering the steel to the factories, to the dealers who eventually sell the finished product. The car industry generates a huge amount of cash for them to waste.
There's also an incentive for them to get us all into electrics because they want to use the batteries in the cars WE own and maintain to back feed into the national grid. "Renewables" are all unreliable and intermittent. The amount of power storage required to still keep the lights on across the UK on a calm windless night would cost a fortune to setup, maintain, and replacing deteriorated batteries, so they want to use YOUR cars batteries as buffer storage, and draw power back out of them to cover times of low power generation. 99% of the time you wouldn't notice. By morning any power syphoned back out would have been replaced, but if you only use your car a few times a week, and every night they pull 10 or 20% out, before topping it back up, you'll end up with many more charge cycles on your cars battery than YOU put on it. I doubt they'll offer any sort of compensation for people who's batteries are prematurely degraded from them making use of it.
You're great man
🙏🏽☺️
Interesting to see what the carbon footprint is for an atomic power station. Concrete; diesel driven plant etc etc decommissioning.
Nuclear technology has advanced to the point where it's essentially unrecognizable from the old technology that most people would think of.
REF; Road Safety FOI Request Question. How or can you obtain the Highway Code, or just for the old Green Cross Code. That is in Accessible Information, for example one of the three Tactile Reading Formats (TRF’s)?
To the Members of the Parlimentary Select Committee for Transport, plus Transport Ministers and Shadow Transport Ministers too, as well as Blackpool Council and ROSPA too.
Copy to the MoD and Defence Ministers and Shadow Defence Ministers plus Defence Committee MP’s too, with regards the MoD White “vehicle” Fleet going all Electric by 2027 too.
As the below information, needs to be taken into account by the MoD and maybe by other Government Departments, let alone by the likes of the LGA (Local Government Association) and all Councils too.
Let alone by the Mayor of London over “ULEV” Policy for |Greater London, equally by London Assembly Members and especially London Assembly own Transport Committee members too!
Namaste All,
Road Safety FOI Request Question. How or can you obtain the Highway Code, or just for the old Green Cross Code. That is in Accessible Information, for example one of the three Tactile Reading Formats (TRF’s)?
Either in Braille, or in Contoured Embossed Printing, or in Moon Tactile Reading Formats (TRF’s).
Question; Equally why is the Highway Code or newer version of the old Green Cross Code, still being written basically for Able Bodied People, Not for Disabled People with either Physical or Leaning Difficulties.
Let alone for Disabled People with Sensory Disabilities, either Visually Impaired or Blind plus Hearing Impairments or Deaf.
Or those who are classed as Deaf Blind and/or Hearing and Visually impaired!
Or even Disabled People who are classed with Multiple (Physical, Sensory and Learning Difficulties, or chronic health issues too) Disabilities too?
Question; Do you also know some car insurance providers, are saying if an Electric Vehicle (EV) or Hybrid (petrol or diesel) Electric Vehicle (HEV), while being recharged using a charging cables stretched out over public rights of ways, or in car parks and/or on your own property too.
Actually cause an accident and injuries etc to others, their Insurance Policy may not cover such accidents, check with insurance providers?
Also says You (the EV or HEV owner or driver), yourself, are responsible for taking reasonable care to prevent accidents when charging your vehicle.
What it does not say openly, the EV or HEV owner or driver, may not be FULLY covered by their Car Insurance Policy, for accidents and personal injuries or deaths caused by EV’s or HEV’s charging cables, which endangering others!
It’s down to you to make sure you’re not creating a hazard, like leaving cables coiled up or left loose where someone could easily trip over them. You should try to avoid leaving them trailed across a public footpath, for example.
If it’s unavoidable, make sure you take necessary precautions, like using cable covers and signs to warn people of the potential hazard.
This would including providing legal warning for Disabled Pedestrians in Accessible Information, but does not say this in the advice given, as not doing so would be Disabled Discrimination too.
That giving Public Warning to ALL Disabled Pedestrians, for Disabled People and their Assistance Animals Safety too, whether they are Wheelchair User’s and Mobility-Scooter User’s and/or user’s of Walking Aids too, or use a Blind Stick and Guide Dog, or Assistance Dogs and/or Hearing Dogs plus Service Dogs as well.
Along with the owners and operators of Public Electric Charging Points Machines, or Local Authorities, need to check their own Public Liability Insurance Coverage’s here too?
With regards taking the necessary PUBLIC precautions, over allowing the use Charging cables being stretched out over public rights of ways, or in car parks and/or on their own property too, are actually FULLY Covered by their own Insurance Policy too?.
As well as they themselves owners and operators of Public Electric Charging Points Machines, or Local Authorities, have provided Public Warning Signs to warn the General Public of the Potential Hazards caused by EV’s and HEV’s Charging Cables too?
Which no Councils seem to be doing, or owners and operators of Public Electric Charging Points Machines are doing either, which means they could find out after an accident has happen, they are NOT Covered by their own Insurance Policy too?
However, the Local Authorities and/or owners and operators of Public Electric Charging Points Machines, will still be legally, financially and medically Liablble even if they are not covered by their insurance provider, for the likes of charging cables caused accidents to the general public!
So the Local Authority, or owners and operators of Public Electric Charging Points Machines, as well as the Owner or Driver of the EV or HEV charging at the time of the accident.
Could be made in Court of Law, individually or all together Legally and Financially plus Medically made Fully Liable themselves instead, if they are individually or together found guilty of causing the accident by their negligence by a Court of Law too.
Question; Is Blackpool Council aware of this, or the Department for Transport, or those responsible for the Highway Code and/or new versions of the old Green Cross Code too?
Namaste Gurkhamum Wendy M.Harbon (Disabled and former Councillors with multi-Disabilities too) and Wheelchaircharlie39 David MC.Hughes (disabled veteran with multi-disabilities too) Disability Rights Campaigners,
Blackpool, Lancashire, North West of England, UK,
I hate to say it , but its bloody obvious. Even a cursory look at just a few elements of car design its clear that ICE is cleaner, the trouble is that the politics get in the way. Just as clean is the concept of holding onto your cars longer because every time you buy a new car and prematurely scrap an older one causes much greater pollution than keeping it and repairing it, even when you factor in the extra fuel and its pollution into the equation with older cars. The main reason Govt wants us to buy new cars is that it justifies having the kudos of the car manufacturers on your door step and all the jobs that they create. But if you increase the repairs and maintenance then that will generate equivalent jobs in the repair business and parts supply.
I like the JCB idea of having Hydrogen as a fuel for an ICE because it is perfectly feasible to convert standard petrol and diesel over without massive cost or difficulty and their pollution is only in the materials of manufacture (most of which could be of recycled origin) and the oils used for lubrication, which last substantially longer because there are no contaminants to deal with. Hydrogen is the coming fuel as not only in the car industry, we need an alternative gas supply because we simply cannot afford to change over to electrical heating etc because the infrastructure simply won't cope. Where you have a requirement for long duration operation in heavy machinery and large transport battery power can't cut it.
Well done bro you deserve a medal for this.
The next thing the government will do is have a battery disposal charge for the last owner of the EV that has to be scrapped!
Highly unlikely. Even after their life in a car, EV batteries can still have a useful and productive life in energy storage. Take the large sports stadium in Utrecht, Holland for example. It uses 200 old Nissan Leaf batteries, charged via solar. And there's the large wind farm in South Wales, that makes use of many old ex BMW i3 batteries for energy storage. Isn't it good we have people with vision in the energy game?
@@Brian-om2hh My only worry is they will end up have more old batteries than they can deal with.
This blinkered race to Net Zero by our politicians doesn’t make any sense. They all to appear to have “The Emperor’s new clothes “ syndrome ( The Hans Christian Andersen fairy tale.) No of them are prepared to put their heads above the parapet and look at cheaper and more environmentally friendly alternatives than the raping of the planet to extract the millions of tons of raw materials and pollution of water tables to make batteries and wind turbines.
Technology already exists and can be developed far faster than the renewable energy technology for carbon capture to enable the use of cheap fossil fuels that already exist . This would act as a stop gap to allow renewables and nuclear to develop at a more natural commercial pace rather than rushing to use technology that clearly isn’t ready. As an engineer I find it crazy that our leaders are so blinkered not to look at other alternatives.
Why would you have to pay to dispose of something that is worth thousands of pounds?
Fantastic video
Thanks 🙏🏽☺️
It’s obvious it’s not possible to replace and power all vehicles on the road with EVs so you won’t be allowed to drive or you won’t be around??
EV planned, scripted and designed to fail from day one - convince the sheep to drive EV get rid of all ICE and then declaire the EV drive failed and can never be sustained.
End Goal = Welcome to their New World 15 Minute SMART City Prison Camps
Well, you will, but you will be charged per mile. Which vehicles and which drivers of those vehicles will be charged the highest and lowest cost per mile? Or will it be a flat rate? It’s very hard to see the most vulnerable and those on lowest incomes who rely on a vehicle getting the lowest cost per mile, not least because they will be driving the least CO2 efficient vehicles (EV or ICE).
Why isn't it possible James? The UK already has a railway network that is 100% electric, and that seems to function ok. The UK's oil refineries already use enough electricity to charge millions of EV's each day.....
What are the formaldahdye levels in a new EV at standstill, like you showed us in your beema.
There is a heavy dose of common sense in that report. I believe there is sometimes a need to kick start selected research/development programs to lead to a better future, so there is an argument for some government funding. However there is always more than one option, and the blinkered EV approach seems to be ignoring this. Also consider the additional grid load of a wholesale move to heat pumps. A rethink based on reality is called for here.
Sad but interesting fact about the betamax/VHS video battle. The reason betamax didn't dominate was because Sony, whose format it was, refused to allow pornography to be published on betamax
VHS, although being inferior, allowed pornography and so became the dominant format.
As the old adage says...
Sex Sells
As soon as Richard Cox said “lithium been dug out of the Congo” gives you all the information you need to understand that this isn’t a report that has any basis in fact of actual research.
There is also the issue of the sheer weight of EVs I,E Road / Bridges at risk ? Then of corse Tyre wear.
Where are Business’ s going to get Power if everyone goes Electric?
If charging rates remain at one hour or so where are charging station going to get the land to accommodate the same number of vehicles currently served by petrol stations ?
They are not trying to reduce your movement, they are trying to reduce the reliance on cars.
You also have to remember we don't really make cars in the UK anymore so every foreign car sold to the UK market is a huge chunk of wedge to that foreign car maker which in turn is a huge wedge to that foreign country, so a reduction of these cars means money in the UK economy.
Is there a link to download the report
In the description
The co2 is only part of the equation. Ulez is also based on NOX and participate output of a car. So yes my 20 year old diesel golf is bad on these points as it has no participate filter but what is never taken into account is the participates that are generated from other parts of the car such as from brakes, tire wear and road surface wear. A typical electric vehicle weighs double of what my golf does and so it surely wears out our already worn out roads at double the rate and surely it will wear out tyres quicker too both of which cause participates and to rebuild the roads and make new tyres will have an impact on the environment.
My Mini Cooper EV, weighs about 100 kg more,
than my old Mini Cooper ICE,
so WHERE did you get that double weight BS from ????????
I heard everything when the Mayoral Candidate said the lithium is sourced in the Congo! It isn't in US cars or they don't get the $7500 tax credit. As for the report always consider who paid for the study? The batteries have a much longer life than this report is giving them. The return is way over in the estimates of making up the CO2 difference and is totally dependent on the size of the batteries. Drilling and refining oil is way more destructive than producing Lithium. There isn't any mention of the production of gasoline being included in the ICE vehicles carbon footprint! What a bogus study!
Extremely good points and very well presented; thank you. The point about a “deliberate act of self harm” is par for the course with the UK at least (i.e. Brexit).
I don’t know whether the report also mentions the devastating effect on natural habitats and nature that the mining and infrastructure would cause too.
The big problem is that there are too many humans on the planet, by at least 6 billion. Until that is addressed, no matter what we do, we’re on a very slippery downward slope.
Those who believe there are too many people on the planet could remove themselves to help the cause. But guessing you probs too many people other than yourself. Plonker.
The only thing that will extinguish a lithium battery fire is Time. It is self sustatining and you can't break the traditional Fire Triangle. I can see the Insurance Companies refusing to underwrite sea going car carriers - one EV bursting into flames is one thing - and EV burning and taking out every other car nearby is another - but when it comes to one EV taking out other cars and a fully functioning RoRo Car Carrying vessel - then you are taking big bucks that the underwriters have to shell out.
I read this report earlier today
And I know for sure it’s not going to get any attention on mainstream media
I’m also highlighting the issues with the ev agenda that our government has on my channel
Thanks for your valuable work
Latest Swedish report shows EV catch fire less than ICE. Note lithium mainly sourced not from Africa. ICE industry has had subsidies for many years. So what do we do when oil runs out? What do you say to Renault and VW who have low carbon footprint for their EV production? EVs are often made from recycled material. EV recycling is available but not utilised because of battery shortage.
Are using the Volvo report about building EV's v ICE vehicles. That report has been trashed regarding its inaccuracies. Where does fairfuel get its funding from?
I downloaded the original tfl "transport emissions roadmap" from 2014. What is happening now vastly deviates from the original idea. There is no mention of nationwide evs. mainly of cities. London in particular. Also the consideration given to the expansion of zones should be considerate to the effect on residents and surrounding areas. I like your unbiased approach and always look to your channel for some sensible approach. Politicians are not scientific but as in Khans case he only hears what he wants to hear and treats every one else as if we have one gcse between us.
Khan has no choice about pushing ULEZ (or pay-per-mile)
He is the guy who has been in charge of the tfl moneypit for years - he needs your money to get himself out of the shit.
@@Renegade1127 exactly, he has ruined it so he will just have to make do with what he has, same as the rest of us.
Over recent year's a lot of vehicles intended for personal transport have combined relatively small footprint and efficient engines of no more than one litre. Perfect for inner city travel and often with plenty of room for four adults. Conversely. People like Sadass Kahn feel the need to parade around in great gas guzzling cars like his Range Rover. Hardly sets a good example does it. Again. Do as I say. Not as I do. At least Bozo the clown made an effort to cycle in London. You have to give him that but I digress.
What about the CO2 and environmental impact of extracting oil, transporting, refining, and distrusting it?
Don't ask. It's horrendous. Plus there's the huge amounts of electricity used just to pump the oil out of the ground in the first place, before it even gets to a refinery.....Around 25% of *all* diesel produced, is used to transport the rest of it to where it is used or stored. Utter madness.
@@Brian-om2hh During WW2,
the Germans realised that,
it was taking about 5 litres of fuel,
to transport 1 litre of fuel,
from Germany to its front lines in Russia,
no wonder they lost WW2.