Why LOKI Was Always Right (And Would Have Stopped Thanos, Too) | MARVEL Theory Breakdown
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- Опубликовано: 2 июн 2024
- Loki season 1 has revealed a lot about to God of Mischief. We already knew he was intelligent, cunning, and charming--but now we've seen his softer side. We know that Loki can change, shirk power, and show real empathy for others. Given that, it's fun to look back on his time and realize that Loki Was Right. He was the rightful king of Asgard.
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Written and Hosted by Ryan Arey ( / ryanarey )
Edited by Ian Dugan and Katherine Woloson 
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What villain should we cover next?
First and I think it’s not a villain but I want to see some more theory’s about where Wanda is now
Absolutely definitely where Wanda is now after the WandaVision finale
Evil Doug
Doom
@@lapitsky4109 o NO
To sum it up with Frigga's words: "Always so perceptive, about everyone but yourself"
Good reference
That does appear to be changing though.
I am bad at using my eyes so I saw Fraggles instead of Frigga’s
Sound like my sister
@@Binidj probably cause he saw other versions of him... And now he can be perceptive about himself... Like looking in a mirror
Every Odin who praises Loki becomes a variant.
Lol
Painfull but true
I have a hard time believing the TVA can just show up & arrest Odin or even Frigga.
Honestly that very well might be the case. Up until now in the mcu everything was supposed to happen according to Kang. Loki is never meant to get the adoration of Odin, otherwise a nexus event occurs. I do see a problem with this video though. If that variant of Odin is allowed to exist, would Loki even grow up with the same set of characteristics and Ideologies as what ScreenCrush describes as the perfect Loki? All of the "choices" that Loki made up until now built the character that he is. If he were to make other choices it would build his character differently. I mean honestly, all of this shit depends on the writer.
@@bern9642 odins a nexus being like scarlet witch
I'm so glad they gave Tom Hiddleston his own show as Loki. Such a great character and performer.
Plus the rest of the MCU's kind of going to shit so I'm glad he's safe and away from all that.
@@graceholbert2126 it’s really not
Right on👍👍
Yes it is
which show was this?
Something that always stuck with me, and made me sympathize with Loki is taking into consideration all the interactions between Loki and Asgardians outside of his family. He is a Prince, a member of the royal family, and yet in multiple scenes we've seen people --who he technically outranks-- openly disrespect him. Thinking about the message that sends... that these people think so little of him that the fact that he is their Prince... doesn't matter to them. There is no way they could've done that to Thor, or Odin, or Frigga. But Loki is, for some reason, not awarded the same respect
@Fernando Martins In the first Thor movie, there's a few scenes where Thor's friends are disrespectful towards Loki (particularly Volstagg making fun of him before they go to Jotunheim and Hogun insinuating that Loki's a traitor with little evidence. There's even a deleted scene that shows an Asgardian servant openly showing disdain for Loki), but the biggest example would be when Loki takes over in Odin's place during the Odinsleep. As the remaining son, Loki would be in line for the acting ruler of Asgard and thus his place as King would be legitimate (which is confirmed in a deleted scene with Frigga). However, Thor's friends see it as a power grab and directly disobey Loki by going down to Earth to look for Thor.
That is the reason why I don’t think I can blame him for being what he is.
He is just a complicated character yet lovable af!!
@@michaelthornton4506 see, you say that, but Loki is an antagonist to the majority of the characters throughout the majority of his appearances. Yes, they were disrespectful, but not without reason. We know that Loki taking over during the Odinsleep was, in essence, a power grab. Yes, he was the rightful heir, but we also know he was actively working against Thor's return, and putting a hit on his father's head to ensure he maintained the throne. We know that he did let the Jotunheims into Asgard, and thus it was appropriate for Hogun to insinuate Loki was the traitor. He was the traitor in the end, even if there wasn't active evidence to support it. I adore Loki, and I think it was entirely the TVA's fault that he behaved that way, over and over and over. That does not mean that he was not also technically in the wrong.
Because he's adopted
@@sshantobia1 Thor and the Warriors Three + Sif don't know that. Heimdall *maybe*, though it's only stated that Frigga and Odin knew
Loki was the only reason I ever even cared about 'Thor' movies. Honestly the most relateable villain ever
Ikr, I agree
Even in Norse mythology, Loki is my favorite god.
Agree
It seriously took me about three or four movies to warm up to Thor, but I liked Loki immediately.
How?
Why does Loki feel like the true and secret “main character” of the marvel universe right now?
Yea, I mean he was offered to have everything he ever wanted, for things to go his way!😃
To you maybe? No one I know liked this show. See the downvotes?
@@gokugirl826 yep that’s why I feel he’s the main character
@@atlusavalon6745 that’s good for you and your friends 🙃
Loki is going to have a very major role in the Marvel Universe!!! There I said it!!!! And he is going to be a surprisingly good hero in the end!!!!
Actually, in the earliest representation of Loki we have in mythology, Loki is more of a good guy than most other gods. He's always cleaning up after their messes, and the other gods imprisoned his three children (seriously wtf) because of the prophecy of Ragnarok, which of course was ACTUALLY what made them angry enough to cause Ragnarok. Classic case of trying to prevent a prophecy, and accidentally causing it instead. (The three children are Hel, Fenrir, and the world serpent. In the story, Fenrir is actually the most powerful of the three, not Hel) (Hel = Hela btw, they probably made her Odin's daughter because it's a plot that makes more sense in the movie. Also for those who don't know, Fenrir is the big bad wolf that was Hela's pet.)
And then theres the 4th child and my favorite little story in Norse Mythology:
The time Loki gave birth to an 8 legged horse.
@@SteenbergGaming Loki also had children with Sigyn but Odin murdered them … brutally
@@lizasaakadze5411 I remember that bit yea. They turned one of his 2 sons into a wolf who then butchered the other son, after which they bound and chained Loki underground with the remains of the dead son.
@@SteenbergGaming YES! I know Loki did some messed up things too in myths but Odin feels no less evil
@@SteenbergGaming To be fair, they chained him up after his prank went wrong causing Baldr's death.
Now that we have a season 2, this is even more on point than it was 2 years ago.
First Odin ruined his daughter, filled her mind with war, chaos and obsessed with ruling then he just locked her away. Then almost ruined his son and then adopted a son and told straight to his face that he was "meant to die". Such a great father Odin is 🤦🤦
Odin is definitely the worst character in MCU.
@@hittingyouoverthehead Odin's character is supposed to be a failed, terrible dad.
@@lmtlsak1829 I doubt that the original myth intended him like that though.
@@hittingyouoverthehead I mean this is a movie in order to keep things interesting they don't copy paste anything from mythology or comics just like that. Odin being a terrible dad is the best reason to make loki, hela bad guys
that is quite common in all mythologies, I mean read up on the greek/roman gods, they are all completely flawed and screwed up...
So if Odin hadn't ignored Loki perhaps Loki wouldn't have learned to see the people who get looked over. He sees them because he is one himself.
I had the same thought when he discussed the point of "what if", and mention a timeline where Thor didn't exist and Loki gets all the attention. To quote Starset "these trials makes us who we are".
if odin didnt ignore loki he would have been pruned lol
Exactly! This inherent contradiction in the premise is exactly what I opened the comments hoping to find expressed. He MIGHT have potential to be a better king than the Hammer-head, but this piece illogically oversimplifies.
@@acousticpineapple7851 what makes you think he can't defeat Alioth and just beak Kang's neck😂
And this right here breaks the argument. The argument assumes that if things had been different, then only good things would have been added to Loki, but that nothing would have been taken away.
Tom Hiddleston managed to create a wonderful multi layered character, the writers gave him so much to work with and because of his lack of screen time or imagination is taking place is that other characters with more screen time simply can’t provide.
same thoughts here. When I was watching Thor Ragnarok and looking back at Loki's journey, the scene "Perhaps, we can come into an arrangement" scene with Hella struck me. I saw Loki as someone analytical, far more fitting to be a King than Thor.
To be fair, Thor acknowledged that Loki would make a better King.
When
When
@@samsubhaa Thor the dark world near then end before loki reveals he is Odin in disguise. I can’t remember the quote but it was along the lines of: Loki knows ruling much more than I do, or smth like that.
@@getit..iguess2202 Turned out he was wrong. Just look at what happened when he actually had the job even if he was disguised as someone else.
@@olstar18 But that was because of TVA. They didn't allow him to grow.
If you look at all of Odin's children, the main villain and cause of all the issues of Thor, Loki and Hela all seem to originate from Odin's terrible parenting skills. Each one of them is violent, war like and lack empathy, to one degree or another. Both Thor and Loki become better people when away from Odin's influence.
If you really believe the MCU version of Norse mythology, I suggest you read the Poetic Edda instead. The MCU screwed the Norse mythology. The only good thing they did was cast Tom Hiddleston as Loki. They couldn't even get a true depiction of Sif, and don't get me started on how they messed up Hel/Hela. Yeah, read the Poetic Edda.
@@kaithorenfawkes8312 I've read Norse and Greek mythology, but most shows screw up mythology. I was basing my comment on the MCU Odin.
Don't blame it all on Odin...what was frigga doing ?
@@MrCake-ui8uo Her best. At least she let her kids know how much she loved them.
@@dreadcthulhu5 Odin let let their sons know too.
You also didn’t mention Old Loki, who became an amazing leader in the outskirts of the universe where the TVA couldn’t reach him. Then he stepped outside the safe zone for 1 second and everything was fucked but oh well
Amazing Leader? He was isolated an alone for thousands of years
I thought that was Old Leif? Or maybe it was young Leif...?
Loki has always been my favourite character in the MCU. He's just too clever for the rest to fathom!
The Loki show spelled out what Loki was all long, his story isn't that of a villain or really a side character, rather it's a tragedy in the background, pushed aside by the heroic stories of others. I'll always love the character, and I'm so excited that he's had the chance to redeem himself in his show.
I mean....the Norse stories of Loki paint a sad picture of him as well...
Loki prince of Frost Giants taken by the people who killed his father mother and killed his people almost wiping them out of existence takes that baby to be raised not to be you what u are or who u are to be told one day u can be king then u see his son get everything father's love freedom to do anything gets a hammer powers the leader of the army and what does Loki get a mother to cry to and that's it
@@sometimessnarky1642 Right. Especially the forever punishment thing, and that too, only for finding a loop hole.
Did you watch attack on titan? Your comment reminded me of the episode "bystander"
@@jmb2fresh his father wasn't killed during the war but everything else is on point
At the beginning of the episode when Miss Minutes is offering Loki everything he wants, the instrumental music that played when he learned about Ragnarok played again and he was crying. He wasn't thinking about beating the Avengers, killing Thanos or taking the Throne.... he was thinking of a timeline where Ragnarok didn't have to happen.
That is why Loki would have been the greatest ruler Asgard could have had.
I agree
Your absalutely right. It wasn't at all killing or taking the throne. The music that plays when he realises it was the moment he saw his mother dead on the floor. So I think he is thinking about saving her.
We all know better about Loki than anyone in the MCU, so sad😢
Idd^^
Imagine how powerful they both would've been if they chose to rule together. They'd be unstoppable. Thor's might and Loki's brains and magic.
What you failed to take into account in this video is the fact that the kind of intelligence you are describing loki to have is developed very much through the adversity loki went through. same as every intelligent person alive. you are born with a part of it of course, but without the need for it, it doesn't develop as much. if we imagine how his life would have been with his parents love, then maybe he wouldn't have had it. and that maybe is a strong maybe.
When Loki said that different versions of a very dangerous person is coming and we need to prepare, I was so shaken by listening to that. Tom Hiddleston is a great actor.
This has been the best story...and the best acting...to me anyway from everything coming to screen in a very long time. Tom especially is a great actor. I've watched Lori 4 times. That ending was amazing.
Loki
Yeah he is. He has portrayed all these different emotions that Loki has gone through AND one moment he looks as innocent as a child the next he grins and he is all mischief... Thumbs up really. He is a very talented actor.
Me too. It made my hands put together by holding my emotions. And he's very serious by those words. I just wanna hug him and would say to Mobius "listen to what he says. He's not kidding."
This is the centre of the whole thing
I absolutely love Loki, he is a hero, he is a villain, he is brilliant, he is flawed. He is perfect
Perfectly imperfect
Good thesis. Only problem is, there could be no 'best version' of loki without everythign else. If Loki was raiserd better he wouldn't have been so resourceful, creative, strategic, or observant. Loki can only be the best king after he's experienced everything to date and the development over the series. The best version of loki is the one we have now, the one we have at the end of the series. We'll see what happens next.
We are sharing the same understanding.
That depends. He needs something to bring out his potential but it doesn't necessarily have to be what did it here. Its quite often that great people have been held back by the very path that made them great. An ideal path would be one that brings out greatness without causing any lasting damage.
The difference between learning fire is hot by feeling the heat and learning its hot by burning yourself.
@@Merilirem but a person would think it is safe if he is just feeling the heat and thought of warmth. Only by burning yourself you gonna know it is a danger.
The best Loki was the one that Thanos killed, he was finally redeemed after all those movies. The series Loki only saw snippets of events and never experienced any of them.
I mean female Loki knew she was adopted.
I disagree on "Thor couldn't be a leader because look what happened when Thanos killed half his people". His brother who he was finally connecting with legitimately just died, not in a fake way, but for real this time. Falling back due to intense trauma is pretty common.
He had ptsd. It's real and even Norse Gods aren't immune.
Yeah, so much that in Endgame he didn't even remember he had a brother. Please.
Thor could have asked to bring Loki back with the stones, instead he never even mentioned him.
@@whiteshaix wasn't Loki already doing his own thing? I get a little confused about the timeline. But we're already into Season 2 of Loki. Have you seen it? I loved the first season, but I'm going to wait until all the episodes come out for Season 2. I don't like to wait. LOL
@whiteshaix his brother was still a mass murderer. I don't think bringing him back to life would've been very cool to everyone else. He loved his brother, flaws and all, but that doesn't mean he had to use the stones and bring him back just to prove it.
@whiteshaix his whole entire existence in the movie mentions it. Lol. He's clearly grieving and not in a healthy way. None of the Avengers are particularly fond of Loki. Why would he bring it up to people that wouldn't understand his pain? He wanted to do the snap! You don't know what he was hoping to ask for. They wouldn't let him. Also, he has a memorial tattoo across his entire back. He hadn't even begun to face what he had lost when we see him in Endgame. Also, everyone grieves differently. Yes, he most certainly cared.
When Thor tells Erik that Loki died in Dark World, Erik is literally gleeful. Why would Thor bring up Loki to people he fears would react like that. It would be painful.
The mythology of Loki is amazing. The greatest trick he plays is to make others believe that they are the one achieving the success. But in reality he is pulling the strings.
Whata neat perspective.
This is deep
What's the worst thing that can happen If we try to test someone's nigh immortality? I mean there's like only one thing that can harm him and you'd have to be blind to use it!
yeah i love the stories of loki in the myths
Odin messed up ALL his children and I've been saying this forever.
He was utterly dreadful. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Sereisly. Thor's the only one who got anything good from him at all, but he was still a shitty parent to Thor.
Loki was never truley bad nor good, he never really cared for the throne well at least not till after thor ragnorank, he just wanted to make his father proud show him hes more then a ice giant
perfect metaphor for stuffy, rigid patriarchy.
@@mini9503 in the first Edda Loki was portrayed as the good guy, as a reimagined Jesus of sorts. The Edda was written when Christianity was already present in the Norse and so it had to be in terms with Christian beliefs. So Loki was the scapegoat, he was always used by the other gods to make problems dissappear and he was father to hela, the world Serpent and fenrir. Those children of his would bring ragnarok, a new beginning for the world wiping it from its sins (only the pure hearted survived) similar to the genesis flood.
Another thing would be that his children were not evil but traited as evil by the other gods from the get go. Fenrir played with the gods and was just a good boy, but they chained him away and betrayed him, hela was cast into the underworld. So if you read the Edda the gods are sinful and pretty much evil in some cases.
8:00 the reason why loki understood all that is because he was a outcast and so probably made friends with the outcasts. If he was raised like thor then he would have no reason to do any of that or be that way and not become the loki we know and love.
Something that I always come to conclude and say is that Loki was much more than they made him, he only wanted to be accepted, respected and loved - that's why he did what he did, he was calling attention showing that he was so capable of being ruler and worthy
And at first I also thought he was a slytherin... he's smart and I really wanted to see him doing more idk
I think that's why he's my fav character, he's misunderstood and portrayed as bad
In the comics after Loki and Thor were already in good terms, Loki became the ruler of Jotunheim and actually did his job way too well that there was no problem to take care of (compare to Asgard that has constant invasions when the frost giants are supposed to be the violent war mongering ones) Loki got really bored so he made a giant snowman called Frost who easily ate Nightmare who came to invade the realm minutes later. He’s so good at his job that Loki can go on adventures without having to worry. Like he’s such a good ruler that his kingdom never have to be under threat so he made a perfect successor, these are already than Odin had done.
In wich comic?
@@ereinhard8820 They're just called "Loki" and were published in 2019. Doing some searching online should easily lead you to a site to read them.
Wow this should happen on big screen, his character deserves better recognition. The only villain we will support.
I love that
@@reddpyramid oh, that's the reborn Loki, the one who grew up as a hero, after Villain Loki died got redeemed for saving Asgard in the process, as the first time he ever did something for someone there than himself.
Loki loves being right.
Don't we all🤣🤣🤣
Sydney coming tokill me 27
LOVES IT
Who doesn't?
Though there are indeed times where being right doesn't always feel good.
You are correct that Loki is the way he is because of the way he was raised. In a universe were he would be an only child he would be an entirely different person. He would lack the drive he had as the second son, and wouldn't have that dark side of him that made him seek out the underworld thus losing out on a lot of his power and knowledge. He felt driven into the shadows to gain an edge on Thor and thus the approval of his father. Take that tremendous drive away, and you have a totally different personally.
LOKI WAS RIGHT! AND he is and will continue to be a fav of fans. He has one of the best character developments. Watched this for the 2nd time today! Love your videos. Doug is awesome. He needs a raise, seriously dude give the guy a bone!😉
"best Loki" is just Thor at the end of Endgame. If Loki has gotten praised the way Thor was praised he wouldn't have had to work so hard. He wouldn't have had to be as clever or cunning. What makes Loki great is the lived experience. It's the falling over and over again. It's the growth at the end of Ragnarok and the show. He needs to be the outcast to become the king Asgard deserved.
I love this take!
Loki was a king asgard was underserving of but desperately needed.
I agree. Loki's greatest strengths came from the adversity he experienced as the proverbial red-headed stepchild. Had he gotten the attention he so desperately craved or had he never been taken in the first place, I don't think he would have become worthy of either throne.
Well put! Had he been brought up right, Loki could never have understood the plight of the common man or the desires of the criminal underworld. He wouldn't have this knowledge to apply to ruling Asgard.
@@crisis5057 Agree completely!
Loki hides is trauma the same way I do and I've always felt a connection to his character.
Being arrogant on the outside but bottling up everything on the inside.
The fact that he's slowly became the protagonist of the MCU is even more odd because it's just another broken child-
I don't know, I just came back from a ~breakdown~
I feel you
I'm put in mind of Shiro's line after meeting Harry Dresden: "Sometimes you get what is coming around, sometimes you ARE what is coming around."
The reasons you gave for Loki and Thor’s failures are some of the significant reasons why I love them so much: they’re flawed and relatable.
No, I don’t have superpowers or magic but I have lost opportunities and had to learn life lessons through struggling and failing.
I like that you pointed out that Thor reverted back to familiar habits and philosophies in the events of Infinity War. It shows that his journey and his growth is not linear. Just like the majority of peoples’ story isn’t linear.
It’s a Catch-22... if Loki “had been hugged once”or raised as Odin’s one true son, would he still be so understanding of the disenfranchised, or would he be just as vain and cruel and Thor?
came here to say exactly this. Adversity can create character, so if you avoid adversity what happens to the character growth?...
Doesn’t have to be, maybe he already experienced a lot of this but thor is killed and oden accepts him later in life
Exactly, its the same reason why the one who remains had to have Loki and Sylvie go through their journey before he could make his offer.
Hugs don't create vain and cruel people. Thor wasn't vain and cruel because he was hugged, but instead because both Thor and Loki were mistreated, but in different ways.
@@AnHourOfWolves simplistic dismissal...excess of attention (i.e. reward) can stunt/prevent the desire to grow (i.e. earn a reward). its why children of successful people often fail hard
Odin: *doesnt suck at parenting*
TVA: OPEN UP
Stan Lee: Ehem...
tva what does that mean??????
@@sumitacharya454 time variance authority,
I love how every character in mcu remains to be consistent
The question would be, would Loki really be the same person if he was an only child. You are assuming that if Loki was an only child he would still know the underbelly of the underworld, but that is not necessarily the case. He would not have the need to know it as he would have much easier life from the start. If he were to be the king you describe he would have to be chosen instead of Thor, who would have to be the same pain for Loki for all his childhood. Hard to say what would become of Thor in that case though.
To be fair to Thor: The Dark World, Thor did say: "Loki for all his grave imbalance understood rule as I know I never will." He knew he served better as a protector instead of a ruler, he didn't just do it for Jane. While Ragnarok totally reinvents Thor and brings him back full circle by presenting him again with the position he rejected. Ultimately, he failed at being a king, because like Frigga said: "everyone fails at who they're supposed to be".
Yeaaa sometimes we can never be the one everyone expects us to be
@VIHAN KRISHNA not me but I just call it The Loki, the interns and Selvig movie!
The amount of daddy issues in everything related to Loki and Thor... Ah, it's no surprise we all can relate.
To quote Tom Hiddleston on this: "hey, listen, man, everybody's got daddy issues"
I honestly thank the internet for opening my eyes and seeing my dad's actions aren't good
It's bad when one gets more attention more gifts more responsible and then find out y because your not his son and he killed your family it's heartbreaking if that happened to you what would you do kill the men with raised u the men who killed your family and made sure his son was stronger than you what would you do
@@jmb2fresh i would honestly choose to die
@@jamssy3409 before get revenge or just kill Thor Odin's favorite child u kill Thor then leave it to hela to inherit the throne lol she would kill off Odin's legacy so no one would know he ever excited
U can't just die u where alive for a reason maybe change the people's life around u or change everything just because you are there to do what u are meant to do never give up never give in or u lost already
When I saw the original Thor, it was just a movie that my parents took me to and I didn't even know the title of the movie until afterward. I also knew nothing about Norse mythology. This lead me to be genuinely surprised when suddenly Loki was the "bad guy." I thought he was the sensible younger brother who was going to help his arrogant older brother become more humble or something.
Love to see you add an update now that Loki season 2 is finished
Can we take a moment and appreciate the fact that Loki added safety barriers to rainbow bridge after he tricked Thor and ruled asgard?
LOL I DID NOT NOTICE THAT TILL NOW, HAHAHAHAHA
That is so helpful. Now I can finally race on it without the koopas always having to fish me out of the void.
it’s a reference to the ending of Thor 1, when he fell from the bridge nearly dying so he didn’t want it to happen to anyone else🥺
@@banmancan1894 but Speedruns :(
@@misham6547 Ah yes!. On that day, the speed-running community of the rainbow road within Asgard faced a great toll. Such a decision is what truly makes Loki a tragic character, he makes great enemies no matter what choice he makes.
Loki saying "I can not be trusted" is an amazing moment of self-reflection, honesty & pathos all in one. What makes a Loki a Loki? The inability to be trusted. Would I lie to you?!
@UThink UCan which is why Kang was right the ONLY alternative to multiversal war is Loki, the only person who can understand all sides, to take over the role that(no matter what) he will be sent to anyway. The only logical choice is to take the 'throne' of the place that would rule over him anyway. He likely would have focused on eliminating Kangs and other REAL threats and put real thought into other variant realities. The one foil to it all is the role of the leader itself. The role of the leader forces you to make difficult choices that may not be fair to all, which means the best leaders are not necessarily the most trustworthy. Because he isn't truthworthy and leadship relies on some narcissism he get lost in a relationship with ironically himself in Sylvie. However the main foil is that if you cannot be trusted the other aspect to that is not being able to trust. Its where we see the TVA loki vs Sylvie fight as a thematic fight over two sides of the same coin. Leading to killing Kang and the starting of the multiversal wars much like Odin doing wars of his own. The circle continues.
Your points are well thought out and fun to listen to, but I think you made a big flawed leap in logic. Assuming that the experiences that created the Loki we know, we don't know what he would have been like had Odin been a different/better father and give him hugs n whatnot... had he grown up in those experiences he [just as likely] may not have the view of the world this Loki does, like his understanding of the criminal underground, the secret entrances n knowledge of the underprivaleged, [not the word you used, but you get my point] the ideal Loki you refer to being the ideal ruler/protector of Asgard likely wouldnt have been created being raised by Odin in a different way.
@@jonathanwyman8488 so you mean it didn't matter what odin do
@@aaronramsey9673 odin's parenting techniques created a chain reaction of events which shaped 'our' Loki into who he is. What I was saying was that, should those parenting techniques be changed, we cannot assume that Loki would still have the same experience and perception of said experiences to form him the same. Basically the video made a broad assumption/ false jump in logic that we would have any idea what a Loki with a different Odin would turn out to be... hope that makes sense
That’s why I loved the series so much, they showed more of him than the villain they pictured him to be, sadly, my parents still think otherwise because they don’t seem to be aware of the physiological development into these characters and they’re stories
Headcanon: this "best Loki" spoken of in the video is Sylvie. That's why she was pruned. She seemed well adjusted, she was told early that she was adopted so she could come to terms with it, she wanted to be a Valkyrie.
Loki is my favorite character and I love Hiddleston's portrayal so much. Loki is great. He doesn't just punch enemies, he outwits them. Loki just needs love...
I agree EXCEPT when Thor is in Endgame. He's not spoiled or lazy or anything when he's hiding out in "New Asgard" but suffering from real depression and PTSD. He hasn't proactively abandoned anyone, but rather is completely ill.
Survivors guilt
Exactly, depression is no joke
All the reason i dont ser why some people hated thor in endgame.
As weird as it is to say this: “Endgame” (for lack of a better word) humanized Thor. And just ask anyone who’s experienced a loved ones suicide. Constantly questioning how or what more they could have done to prevent that tragedy from taking place. Then multiply that feeling by billions. Excellent points by all of you.
Great point
My theory is Odin tried (and failed) to get the two brothers to rule side by side, as he says himself only one can be king of Asgard, but both are born to rule. The two brothers if raised well could have complemented each others strengths, Asgard needs a hero king for that popularity boost and willingness to sacrifice for the realm, but it also needs someone wise to actually run things. In this regard Thor would be King, but Loki would be the true ruler.
Okay, about Storm Breaker. Thor didn’t say he needed it to channel his powers, he said he needed a weapon to kill Thanos. On top of that, the thing can summon the Bi-frost. I’d argue he didn’t revert to, “Oh me, I need my hammer, I am poor baby without it!” Instead he knew what he needed, he needed the Bi-frost to get to Thanos, and needed a weapon to kill him. Arguably it makes him stronger to have a weapon like Mjornir, or Storm Breaker. Also, I’d want more than just lightning to kill a guy with an Infinity Gauntlet with multiple, if not all Infinity Stones.
Also wallowing in self pity in Endgame… that’s a reversion of his fucking character?! No, you cannot say that knowing what he lost. He just lost his brother, and father, the last of his family, within the same week, on top of that he lost his home, half his people, and failed at killing Thanos because he wanted Thanos to suffer. He feels like he’s the reason the Snap happened, which is true, he is the reason that it still happened, because he could’ve done one thing different. He should’ve gone for the head. So of course he blames himself for half the universe being snapped out of existence! That is not a reversion, he grew to eventually blame himself for his actions instead of blaming others or not taking any accountability for his actions period. That point is so twisted that it feels like it’s being made to fit this. I do think that Loki would’ve been the better king, however those points are idiotic.
It has always really bugged me that Thor was so dead set on getting a new hammer in infinity war after Odin taught him he wasn’t the god of hammers. Lol
To be fair he got an axe 🤣
@@CodeeXD Hahaha. Fair. Stormbreaker is kind of a hammer axe hybrid.
When Thor fought Thanos in his spaceship, he did not have a hammer then and was completely dominated by him. He probably thought he needed something else to make him more powerful than he already is and the only way he knew is to get himself a bigger and better hammer aka stormbreaker.
He needed Stormbreaker to take on Thanos with the infinity stones. Thanos was too strong once he started collecting the stones
@@ch1000man Good point!
one thing i want to point out is that Thor was going through a depressive state. he lost his home, his people, his brother, so many things. when something that horrible happens to someone so fast, they're going to want to turn back to simpler times when things were okay. he's not going to want to keep that growth because it came from that pain. he feels this need to get a new hammer because it's one of the few things that still makes sense and he feels confident in. it wasn't self-pity, it was him going numb and choosing to forget about the things that have happened and the many responsibilities that were dropped in him because of those events.
I feel like this comment should be getting more attention than it is lol
yeah, i feel it's really harsh on Thor. Thor just lost his people (most of them), turns out he had a blood thirsty sister he didn't know about, he lost his brother (again) and had to watch him die (agai) saving him from someone he was afraid of. (disagee about Loki seeking Thanos out, since Loki was very clearly under the thumb of the Other, and looked very ill for half the Avengers. It could be argued he spent the rest o the time running from Thanos. Where else is safest but Asgard? even if it is in the dungeons ... ) He kept going, he got himself a new weapon which he used alongside his expanded powers. This suggests he instantly knew every nuance there was simply because he realised hes 'not the god of hammers'. But really, he didn't have time. Thanos was coming, and he needed all the help he could get. Then he loses. He never loses. He couldn't avenge his people, so he got depressed. Although it's painted all haha funy, I actually really like it. He's sad, he's lost hope, he's got PTSD, he's falling apart. Thor1 was a tantrum, Endgame is being utterly lost
In my opinion, both thor and loki was going through a hard mental disorder because of their parent (odin) really. They were not raised right. If only their father recognized them right, even hela, the siblings would've ended in a better state.
I think that absolutely right but also, that's after all the decision Thor made (not that he is the guilty one) but he did left his home and decline being a King when most needed. By the time he took the crown it was too late and his kingdom had fallen and was about to fall even more. Basically he lost his army and many peopleto Hela, he then lost his people to Thanos and then the remaining Asgardians got reduce in half due to the snap. As an Asgardian I would do blame the king, because independient of their personal life, my life and my family's depend on a good leader. So... anyway all Asgardians had it tough.
He had a major breakthrough and then a small snag caused him to conpletley revert...
I'm watching this a year later, and it not only holds up, it's been reinforced with hindsight. Brilliant and accurate, both in history and in the MCU. Can't wait for season 2, and I hope they continue great writing! (Michael Waldron, et al)
I fully agree that Loki would have ended the Hella arc in 0.5 seconds.
He finds out about her, her prison and figures out a way to open it... Picks up the Reality and Power Stone, open the gate, say hello, check back in 50 years to make sure.
I agree with most everything you’ve said! But a couple of points:
1) We don’t know that Loki faked his death in the first Thor movie. It is more in character for him to have let go because he saw no other option and then took advantage of the situation he found himself in afterwards.
2) We don’t know that he is the one who found Thanos. It seems just as likely that Thanos found him since the destruction of the bifrost created some form of split in the space below Asgard while it fell.
3) Loki’s alliance with Thanos seemed very one sided and since we do know that the mind stone was effecting Loki during Avengers, there is some room for interpretation of that relationship.
These three points lead us to a different set up within the movies.
Loki fell and met Thanos. Loki took advantage of this meeting to form an alliance or was coerced into an alliance with Thanos. Loki, knowing about the infinity stones, put up a good fight but ultimately lost Thanos two of the infinity stones on purpose. Knowing of Thanos’s desire for the stones, Loki was then in a good spot to protect the stones he already knew the location of and to search for and protect the stones he didn’t know about. By being returned to Asgard, he could manipulate his way to freedom and he would be protected from Thanos.
During Ragnarok when Thor begins accusing Loki of leaving the nine in chaos, we see Loki’s ego on full display. However, it’s also obvious that Loki has been pulling forces out of the other realms and onto Asgard where one infinity stone and the fake gauntlet are kept. He takes time to hide the Aether where he thinks it will be safe and sends Thor to help retrieve the scepter with the Avengers. He also allows Thor to return to Earth where two stones now reside.
Throughout these movements, he changes Asgard from a colonizing empire into a protectorate that allows the other realms the freedom to govern themselves. He puts Asgard first and begins to encourage the growth of his realm instead of wasting resources ruling the nine. He also creates a realm strong enough to withstand Thanos and manages to protect at least four infinity stones.
So yes, Loki would have made a much better king than Thor if stoking his own ego hadn’t been his defense mechanism against Odin’s neglect and his people’s/friend’s disdain.
Also, Thor needed storm breaker because it held the power of the bi frost. To get to Thanos quickly he needed a way to move through space. With Asgard destroyed, that was his only real hope.
Loki has always been my favorite character in the MCU because I could always see the good behind all that. This analysis helped me finally understand it. Up until Dark Widow’s death, he was the one I mourned most about.
It took me a few seconds to realize who dark widow is
@@aditisk99 who
@@aditisk99 ohhh I get it now
Smart
Who the fuck is dark widow
I can see how it took a lot of scrutiny to make this video and kudos to you for that! The examples just prove you right so perfectly. Two things I'd like to add:
-the bit where Loki cut Lady Sif's hair is directly taken from Mythology: Loki cuts Sif's hair as a prank and it annoys Thor. So Loki promises to give her a golden hair piece crafted by Dwarves..basically they took the inspiration from Norse Mythology
-a depiction of Loki being raised as a heir is in the What If series, in the episode about Party Thor (ep 7). He's a fully developed Jotun prince that is good friends with Thor and is a jolly, fun-loving character which he probably would seek if he wasn't constantly pressurized to be better than Thor. THAT Loki, I believe would be a Ravenclaw.
It feels as if Loki is like a mighty being, who is above all, and is at the centre of the whole MCU
One of the longest character arcs in history. Genius
And it’s still going
Iron Man has the best Arc if you know what I mean.
He's got a big 'ol hog.
How? This loki is after the first avengers movie. At this point he had been in only 2 movies, after that the TVA. It's not the loki we knew
@@giovannip8600 because he was able to see where continuing down his current path would lead and change his fate. He saw the consequences to his actions and was able to grow this time.
@@giovannip8600 I know where are you coming from, but I think it is meant in terms of the real time, slow releases, each adding something new to his character from different perspectives.
I've always loved Loki as a character, and it broke my heart every time he made a mistake because i knew there was a better version of his story if he could only break the vicious cycle he lives in.... similar to how Louis Litt was written in suits.
This might be one your best videos ever. You argue and talk as if you fell under Lokis spell. As if you fell for the god of mischief. Very, very well done, ScreenCrush, *very* well done!
This is a great video. Well done. Very cerebral and encompassing of the whole mcu and it’s characters. I watched most of it this morning and it stayed with me all day- turning Loki thoughts around in my mind. 👏
I'm glad Loki is getting all the screentime he deserves😭💕
I’m just going to have my head cannon be that Loki is the true protagonist of the entire MCU and he’s finally getting growth to be the hero he was destined to be
NewRes is Agard🆎
Sure let's forget he almost tried to conquer Earth with an alien invasion, because he was jealous of his brother.
@@mcshark13 No one is forgetting that.
@@mcshark13 the scepter was manipulating him the whole time, that's why he's much more ruthless in The Avengers compared to the rest of the movies he's in
thats the difference between loki and sylvie. loki faced bigger threats while sylvie only wants revenge. No wonder loki has a better understanding what much more bigger threats (i know redundant lol) will come. He experienced stronger enemies. He knows the risk.
Great video guys, I was thinking about the premise of Loki recently and I came to another realization: Loki is actually the greatest of all the characters, all of the heroes and shit where always destined to be heroes and had the perfect conditions to do so everytime, but Loki had a shitty path to take but frequently he outgrew his creation and personality and one version even managed to challenge his own destiny and actually WON like wtf NONE of the other characters know anything about time variance authority
Your logic relies on Loki knowing everything he knows even when you changed the most fundamental part that shapes our behavior! If he was raised in a loving and caring family he would have not turned mischievous, rebellious and resourceful... therefore his personality would have been completely different as of the current Loki!
Right. Nature vs nurture.
Pb is you can change everything, Loki remain the god of Mischief.
Imagine the god of mischief, spoiled like thor....
Thanos who ??
@@cyrillechristophe6583 👏👏👏
If loki raised in loving and caring family, he become something like sylvie...
@@chvhndrtntlr3482 ?????? she never had a family????
People: Getting to know Loki better trough the serie
Loki fans and people with trauma: We knew it all along. Is no suprise for us. ;)
exactlyyyyy
This👆
Absolutely. Never thought he was a true villain. He's such a great character and loved watching his growth through the movies and series. I really believe Loki's are meant to be great.
@@melissageisler391 Same
@@melissageisler391 how is he not a true villain he killed innocent people in New York
After watching Loki season 2. This video is even more convincing
Totally agree, and thank you for collecting the evidence and presenting it so well!
Please tell me there's timeline where Odin dies straight after bringing Loki to Asgard and Frigga because sole ruler until her sons come of age...
That-That would actually work for everyone, if it weren't for the hella thing.
@@elainegoates9792 oh, damb
Even aligator Loki is possible. I don't see this to be impossible
@@elainegoates9792 Maybe Frigga could put her back in stasis or something. She probably knew about Hela ahead of time.
@Rayaan Syed lol
Loki would have been one hell of a king. But it looks like he's been called to a higher purpose
a Glorious Purpose
@@culturecanvas777 some say he was burdened with it.
A conquerer
@@jayechottv 😂😂😂😂😂
Yeah. Not just king of asgard and 9 realms, but king of the whole universe, and yes, strongest time keeper(s), along with his 'lady'
2:16 Loki isn't 15 hundreds years old, Odin found him as a newborn child back in 965 A.D. which makes Loki around 1053 years when he died.
Thor is the one who's 15 hundreds years old
Tom Hiddlestone did such a good job with this character. He took an already popular character and made it iconic
In Fairness to Endgame Thor he was dealing with the PTSD and Trauma of failing to stop half the universe from being wiped out. So I'd give that Thor a pass. He was in no shape to do anything let alone rule New Asgard.
And TBH he wasn't at all in the right mental state to really be fighting Thanos either at that point.
yeah, I did like Thor's arc in Endgame, showing how people can grieve. Thor lost everything. And it was a nice story that if someone like Thor can end up being so downtrodden, then he's more relatable. etc. I thought it was good storytelling. and the conclusion to Thor's arc was actually that he realizes he doesn't want to rule and someone else would be a better ruler.
I love how they show real human emotions. Just because a character has the arc of a hero doesn’t mean that they won’t succumbed to grieve , revenge and pride. They fuck up just like we do and maybe that’s why we love the MCU sm
Getting his ass handed to him by noobmaster69 didn't help either.
@@verajaquez Very nicely said and I agree, that's one of the main reasons why I love the MCU
This starts in Infinity War already. I very much doubt Thor was aware that half of his people were spared, and he sounds positively insane throughout the movie. He believes Thanos killed ALL of his people, he saw him kill his friend Heimdall and his brother Loki, with whom he recently reconnected, and he sort of shuts down everything except his need for revenge. That's why he doesn't go for the kill; he wants Thanos to suffer.
Then in Endgame, with the imminent threat gone and nothing to fight left, he goes into the PTSD and depression.
Looks like they just laid out an entire plot line for the “What if” series
I like this! Good King Loki of Asgaard creates universe-wide peace across the 9 realms and beyond! But then an antagonist from another universe in the multiverse turns up to wreak havoc; with a nuanced and complex plot line and journey ensuing! Disney Marvel should make this animation cartoon and then shut up and take my money! :-D
What if Loki was King of Asgard?
Loki became more than a King. He now rules over All of The Timelines.
This aligns exactly with Loki season 2
He’s not treated like shit because he’s the smartest in the room he’s treated like shit because he won’t let you forget that he’s the smartest in the room
Haha, try true. Which again brings back around to his ego being his failure.
And because he overestimates his own intelligence and is condescending to others
Yes but why do you think he feels the need to prove himself in the first place?
@@TheFriendlyFascist but that's not who he really is .. he literally says this in episode 1 when he explains to Mobius that he doesn't enjoy hurting people.
@@aakarshan4644 Thor and his friends mock Loki all the time in Thor 2011. They look down on him because he is different. That's why.
Loki : the sun will shine on us again.
Marvel : Yes.
you mean just Loki, right?
thats a really good editing. very on point, changing and entertaining
Bruh! Your vids make me truly understand the art and beauty of film making especially centered around something I grew up on as a kid
Absolutely correct, Loki Should have been a king and thor a commander of Asgrad soldiers.
Wtf is Asgrad lol
@@goodputin4324 thier kingdom
Nah, fuck that, they should have abandoned the idea of monarchy altogether and made Sif their leader.
@@Laurentus was Sif really that great? She's certainly more level headed than Thor, but Loki is still leagues and bounds more qualified.
Also, making Sif an absolute leader isn't abolishing a monarchy, it's just establishing a new dynasty or dictator
@@swathisajja5615 wtf is thier lol
Sylvie (Loki) kills Kang so he could achieve the best version (variant) of himself
Youre on to something
@@elByrd it makes sense, Kang sees the big picture and up to something cosmically big, I’m looking forward seeing his arc
also "It's like poetry, they rhyme" (wrong franchise but it applies)
@@ranz.mp4999 disney owns both marvel and star wars so it works 🤣
@@8narutoshodowclones lmaoo trueee
I just finished Loki this week and I couldn’t agree more
Remarkable video, truly. Brilliant and creative ideas here that flow throughout all the films in a logical way
"He is the smartest guy in the room and he gets treated like shit for it"
It hit me too hard. :D
You know what else may have stunted his emotional growth? Being abandoned and taken as an infant.
That feeling as though something is wrong? It is a major identity crisis born from the loss and trauma he experienced in infancy. Mother loss, for humans anyway, in infancy can damage the development of your identity.
As always, I am disappointed that MCU canon never sends him to reconcile his frost giant heritage with his asgardian raising.
Yet...
This is the rare moment where I side with Odin. When Loki says, "You should have told me what I was," Odin replies, "You're my son." Period. And Loki clearly wants that to be true in that moment, he's just despairing because it's all such a shock. Loki has no connection to the frost giants (who seemingly abandoned him for being too small). In every way that matters, he's as Asgardian, especially after thousands of years.
@@theaterpup3466 He has no connection besides literally being born one and abandoned by one. Or, for all we know, simply stolen by Odin. The victor writes the story, after all--something true for most infant adoptees.
Yes, it's all a fiction and the writers can do what they want with the property. But as an infant adoptee, we were not blank slates. Our history and origin matter. Who we are is an amalgam of nurture and nature. Loki has become yet another mainstream adoptee story told with the exclusion of the "nature" side.
@@heatherhanes7010 It’s an interesting debate. In this case I don’t think merely being born something is the strongest connection.
@@heatherhanes7010 To me, Odin's version of the events to led to him taking Loki seem pretty sketchy, and not telling him about his heritage was inexcusable. Every person deserves to know where he came from, and not in a way that shames, belittles or denies that origin. Odin really is the opposite of what a good adoptive parent should be.
I'd also be fine if I never heard another "he's adopted" joke in any Marvel TV series or movie. I suspect that's a holdover from Joss Whedon, who seems to find adoption and "'short bus" jokes hilarious, since they show up in every project he's involved with.
Goddamn! This was a SUPERB video my friend! WELL DONE!!!
Though Loki may be on the Ravenclaw side or the Syltherin side, he actually has the characteristics of all the houses:
Gryffindor: Loki has shown bravery on multiple occasions, like standing up to Thanos
Syltherin: Loki is a cunning silvertongue with great ambition to prove himself
Ravenclaw: Loki is a very intelligent and creative person in his schemes and plans like the ones for the Battle of New York
Hufflepuff: Loki is loyal to those people who trust him - like Frigga and Sylvie
It is almost like the Hogwarts houses are arbitrary and categorize people using a hammer. Being not much different than a horoscope. People are complex and won't fit in boxes.
@@Ikajo exactly
The personalities of people might even change during the course of the Hogwarts years. Like a person once loyal and trustworthy could later become conniving and dishonest but still remain in Hufflepuff
@@chaoticlokis Considering they are kids being raised by other kids? Either they would change in rejection, or they would conform strongly to expectations. No one seems to realise how young the students are and how bad it is that all of the adults are teachers. Normally, boarding schools have adults separate from the teachers to act as a dormitory parent to the students.
Loki has been one of my fave characters due to his potential (and...maybe Tom...yea, def Tom)
def Tom
Thor: look at me I’m a badass
Loki: look at me I’m so intelligent
Odin: that’s my boys
Great analysis! Can’t get over how much I loved the series.
After 2 years of this video, and after having watched Season 2 of Loki, all i can say is that L loved this analysis.
I think that's why Sylvie was pruned. She would have been the perfect version of Loki because she wouldn't have had the brotherly rivalry with Thor for Odin's approval. And we know that Odin treated her different than male Loki (probably because he screwed up so bad with hela and learned from his mistakes on how to raise a daughter, but still didn't know how to raise a son) in that he did tell her she was adopted, and might have been a more nurturing and approving father for her.
Except in the end, she let her emotions guide her without thinking things through. NOT the top quality of ANYONE, let alone a ruler.
Sorry, but I don't think she can be trusted even running an HOA.
@@rsrt6910 haha, in her final state I agree:) my point is that if she turned out that way because she was pruned. If she had remained in Asgard I believe Odin would have done much better with her (since he already was) and she would have been a heroic and benevolent ruler.
@@rsrt6910 But that is after a very long time on the run.... We can not judge "present day" Sylvie without taking that in to account.
@@rsrt6910 she's been hunted since she was a kid. Her whole life had one purpose and no one would have gone that far just to give it up. Had she not been persecuted for the past 20-25 years, she would have been fine.
@UThink UCan this is all speculation, but one thing we do know from Sylvie is that Odin was treating her differently than male Loki, since he did tell her that she was adopted when she was young, and that is a huge difference from her male counterpart
Loki always knew he was destined to be better, he always just went at it the wrong way. I agree better parenting by Odin would have definitely helped. Also tom hiddleston is such an amazing actor!
The biggest reason he failed with the invasion of NY is because he was mind-controlled and was not himself. Thanos' way of thinking doesn't suit Loki and so he failed. Also he didn't join forces with Thanos, but was captured by him.