Thank you Peter. This workflow-type videos are a gem. I have seen nobody else dedicate this much level of detail on Voigtlander X-mount lenses. I encourage you to produce more videos like this. Here’s my two cents on the topic: - I love Voigtlander lenses for their unique rendering and manual focus experience but unfortunately in this case there are two flaws: 1) aperture blades move as you stop the lens down even when the lens is mechanically (and electronically) disengaged with the camera so I suspect no firmware update can fix this. 2) the focus throw is just too short. - Focus check doesn’t work for me because I am used to frame and focus at the same time. Use the low setting for focus peaking helps a bit but not by much. - In my view to use effectively these lenses one needs to be prepared to change its approach to photography. Either you zone focus using the hard infinity stop and pull the focus back just little with the aperture set at f8/f11. Alternatively, one needs to use strategically the focus distance markings by pre-visualizing the shot. For example: if you want to take a portrait with the 18mm 2.8 then you already know you want to include the background because it’s a wide angle lens. Then you could pre-focus at 2m distance, then move yourself approximately 2m away from the subject. This technique however requires the photographer to pre-visualise the shot before looking into the viewfinder and to know that a portrait with a 28mm equivalent lens shot at 2m distance includes background into the frame. Finally, it’s easier to focus at a given distance by rotating the focus wheel from the infinity point backwards instead of doing the opposite. This is because the area of focus extends much more behind the subject distance that it does before the subject distance. It’s also easier to focus peak this way. If you focus peak by rotating the focus wheel from short distance to long distance it’ll be much more difficult to guesstimate accurate focusing.
Thanks for your comment. You get it. I wish there was a "bonus likes" option on RUclips for your type of comment. It isn't simply a matter of turning on focus check, or zooming in on focus check. The 18mm at f22 shows no change in focus peaking from 1m out to infinity as we rack focus. There is simply no way to determine the plane of best focus using just the focusing aids. We have to use other approaches as you have detailed and as I have mentioned in the video. I've pinned your comment.
I have the 27mm and I do find that keeping the focus at the infinity hard stop, and bringing it back to focus on closer subjects, feels better for a lot of street photography. If you reset the focus point to the infinity hard stop before moving on, then focusing becomes a matter of “by how much do I need to bring the focus closer?”. You always move in one predictable direction and can be faster that way.
You're missing the most useful technique: Focus Check (that is: zoomed in EVF/LCD view). The Voigtlander are special in that you can set them up to automatically engage Focus Check when you change the focus (and zooming out to normal view again when half pressing the shutter). This is what I use for landscape stuff. If you don't want it to engage automatically it's also possible to set a custom function button to engage Focus Check as well. Another general useful advice: always use *low* for peaking, not high, since then the camera is a bit stricter about what it considers sharp. Though I agree I'd probably turn off focus peaking for the landscape closed down use case. Another thing: On the Voigtlander 18 and 27 lenses actually has hard stops at infinite, so unless something is really close, f8 and focus at infinite and a lot of things will be in focus. Very fast way to work. Anyway, thanks again for making all these videos on the Voigtlander lenses. You're becoming a bit of a unique resource on that here on RUclips.
I'm well aware of focus check. I've been using it all along and focus check doesn't help. In fact, if you go through the video again, you'll see me using the zoom feature of focus check. It doesn't solve the problem when stopped down.
@@photographybypetercharles9939 I forgot to mention one thing: I combine this technique with rocking the focus back and forth to see where it get's worse and then sort of place it in the middle. But yeah, it would be cool to have electronic aperture control like the Fujis (it would also make aperture control compatible with the dials for those who like that). I suppose that's simply not the Voigtlander way.
That’s the way I do, focus check until I get the best focus possible, and the peaking highlight off (because it gets in the way rather than helps). It’s the best option for still subjects, because once you get the focus, you don’t need to touch the focus ring anymore, so you can reframe without worry about focus. If it is a very near subject, I slowly move my head back and forth until I get the focus and just shot by feeling. Now, if it’s a moving subject, you can only zone focus or focus by reference and pray.
@@Pedro76mchlkg I’ve managed to capture a surprising amount of shots using low red peaking with BW of people in motion. But yeah, manual focus can be difficult for sure.
@@torb-no I agree that for people in motion, focus peaking is better, focus check is almost impossible. I just hate that the highlights don’t let get a good view of what I am actually shooting.
I have a 27mm f2 Voigtlander.... I zone focus for Street photography, use red focus peaking, but use the focus scale in the viewfinder to get a more accurate distance to the subject. Good video. Good advice.
Excellent video. It's just what I needed to better understand how to use my Voigtlander 27 f/2 more effectively when stopped down in Zone Focusing. Very clear presentation. It's so great to understand what has been confusing and frustrating. Many thanks.
A very timely video Peter. Received my VG 18mm f2.8 on Tuesday and straight away ran into this problem, thanks for clearing it up with this post, appreciate it. T.
I frequently switch between the Fuji 35 1.4 and VL 40 1.4 and this never even occurred to me! And now that I think about it, yep, I've felt let down by the results I've gotten when relying on the peaking many times. Great info.
Wonderful video, thank you. You have increased my knowledge and skills. Another issue that isn't specific to any brand or type of lens is diffraction. Fuji crop sensors are more sensitive to diffraction which may start as early as F8 and likely by f11. If shooting at F16 or f22 with any lens on a crop sensor, diffraction will significantly soften the image. We can't avoid that - it is the physics of the lens. I suggest not stopping down past f8 on any fast lens.
Great info! I just bought my first Voigtlander lens (27mm f2), and I’m planning to use it on my Fuji XT5. Your video is very helpful. Thanks for covering this topic!
Thanks for this suggestion. I've learned to set the focus on f1.2 and then, stop down as desired. Focus peaking doesn't work as well once stopped down. It's certainly a lot slower but a great suggestion.
Thank you - very valuable for many. For those of us who learned photography before "open aperture measurement" was a thing (late 60s, 70s, ... - and it was a welcome thing) the applied physics is clear as concerns using CV lenses today. Or for those who regularly use vintage manual lenses. But it pays to point out the factor and ways to deal with it. Also: You need to be aware of what the DoF scale actually means ... Fuji provides two settings for the blue bar, then there's the one on the lens (hard to use). Need to be applied differently depending on your enlargement requirements. Nobody ever said there is no learning curve with photography ...
The key is not to stop the lens to f11 or f22 not only due to depth of field but phenomena known as defraction. On a 40mpix sensor I would go to f8 max if you want to have reasonable sharpness. The story about aperture of Fuji lenses ha snothing to do with Fujifilm but with how all mirrorless cameras works for more then a decade.
Yup, I have a video out on diffraction with one of these lenses. The closeness of the rear element to the sensor creates issues. Nevertheless, for an enthusiast putting stuff on social media, diffraction is a non issue.
Let's be clear about the nature of the problem. We're talking about the 23mm and 18mm when used stopped down to f11 and more. We have a perfect storm for focusing problems when we combine their short focusing throw with their large depth of field when stopped down and the way the mechanical aperture operates. This produces a very deep range of "in focus" as shown by the focusing aids. Punching in focus check doesn't help very much. If we want to nail critical focus, we have to go an extra step to ensure that the best plane of focus is where we want it to be.
Thanks for the explanation. But please keep in mind that stopping down beyond f/11 will decrease the sharpness on Fuji 26 MP sensors due to diffraction, beyond f/8 on the 40 MP sensors.
Very interesting vid, thanks a lot! I love my Voigtlander 27mm f/2 on my Fuji XT5, but recently I suffered from unsharp images, while shooting in quickly changing circumstances (people moving around etc). Didn’t understand it, since I use focus peaking, high red, all the time. Will definitely try your suggestions now. If the shot is right, the Voigtlander produces fantastic images.
@photographybypetercharles9939 I'm afraid you didn't when stopped down to f16 with the Voightländer. If you do, you'll probably see where the focus is. If not zoomed in everything seems red at a high f-stop, but if you zoom in, you'll quickly recognise where the critical point of focus is. At least it works that way with a 15mm Voightländer on a Sony APSC. Anyway, thanks for your videos. I enjoy watching & learning. Have a nice weekend!
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Thank you Peter. This workflow-type videos are a gem. I have seen nobody else dedicate this much level of detail on Voigtlander X-mount lenses. I encourage you to produce more videos like this.
Here’s my two cents on the topic:
- I love Voigtlander lenses for their unique rendering and manual focus experience but unfortunately in this case there are two flaws: 1) aperture blades move as you stop the lens down even when the lens is mechanically (and electronically) disengaged with the camera so I suspect no firmware update can fix this. 2) the focus throw is just too short.
- Focus check doesn’t work for me because I am used to frame and focus at the same time. Use the low setting for focus peaking helps a bit but not by much.
- In my view to use effectively these lenses one needs to be prepared to change its approach to photography. Either you zone focus using the hard infinity stop and pull the focus back just little with the aperture set at f8/f11. Alternatively, one needs to use strategically the focus distance markings by pre-visualizing the shot. For example: if you want to take a portrait with the 18mm 2.8 then you already know you want to include the background because it’s a wide angle lens. Then you could pre-focus at 2m distance, then move yourself approximately 2m away from the subject. This technique however requires the photographer to pre-visualise the shot before looking into the viewfinder and to know that a portrait with a 28mm equivalent lens shot at 2m distance includes background into the frame. Finally, it’s easier to focus at a given distance by rotating the focus wheel from the infinity point backwards instead of doing the opposite. This is because the area of focus extends much more behind the subject distance that it does before the subject distance. It’s also easier to focus peak this way. If you focus peak by rotating the focus wheel from short distance to long distance it’ll be much more difficult to guesstimate accurate focusing.
Thanks for your comment. You get it.
I wish there was a "bonus likes" option on RUclips for your type of comment. It isn't simply a matter of turning on focus check, or zooming in on focus check. The 18mm at f22 shows no change in focus peaking from 1m out to infinity as we rack focus. There is simply no way to determine the plane of best focus using just the focusing aids. We have to use other approaches as you have detailed and as I have mentioned in the video.
I've pinned your comment.
@@photographybypetercharles9939 thanks for your kind words, much appreciated 🙏🏻
Thank you 🙏🙏🙏
I have the 27mm and I do find that keeping the focus at the infinity hard stop, and bringing it back to focus on closer subjects, feels better for a lot of street photography. If you reset the focus point to the infinity hard stop before moving on, then focusing becomes a matter of “by how much do I need to bring the focus closer?”. You always move in one predictable direction and can be faster that way.
You're missing the most useful technique: Focus Check (that is: zoomed in EVF/LCD view). The Voigtlander are special in that you can set them up to automatically engage Focus Check when you change the focus (and zooming out to normal view again when half pressing the shutter). This is what I use for landscape stuff.
If you don't want it to engage automatically it's also possible to set a custom function button to engage Focus Check as well.
Another general useful advice: always use *low* for peaking, not high, since then the camera is a bit stricter about what it considers sharp. Though I agree I'd probably turn off focus peaking for the landscape closed down use case.
Another thing: On the Voigtlander 18 and 27 lenses actually has hard stops at infinite, so unless something is really close, f8 and focus at infinite and a lot of things will be in focus. Very fast way to work.
Anyway, thanks again for making all these videos on the Voigtlander lenses. You're becoming a bit of a unique resource on that here on RUclips.
I'm well aware of focus check. I've been using it all along and focus check doesn't help. In fact, if you go through the video again, you'll see me using the zoom feature of focus check. It doesn't solve the problem when stopped down.
@@photographybypetercharles9939 I forgot to mention one thing: I combine this technique with rocking the focus back and forth to see where it get's worse and then sort of place it in the middle.
But yeah, it would be cool to have electronic aperture control like the Fujis (it would also make aperture control compatible with the dials for those who like that). I suppose that's simply not the Voigtlander way.
That’s the way I do, focus check until I get the best focus possible, and the peaking highlight off (because it gets in the way rather than helps). It’s the best option for still subjects, because once you get the focus, you don’t need to touch the focus ring anymore, so you can reframe without worry about focus. If it is a very near subject, I slowly move my head back and forth until I get the focus and just shot by feeling.
Now, if it’s a moving subject, you can only zone focus or focus by reference and pray.
@@Pedro76mchlkg I’ve managed to capture a surprising amount of shots using low red peaking with BW of people in motion. But yeah, manual focus can be difficult for sure.
@@torb-no I agree that for people in motion, focus peaking is better, focus check is almost impossible. I just hate that the highlights don’t let get a good view of what I am actually shooting.
So very helpful! I just ordered a Voigtlander 27mm f2 and would never have known this without you!
Don't forget lens diffraction which kicks in at small apertures and fights against increased depth of field.
I have a 27mm f2 Voigtlander....
I zone focus for Street photography, use red focus peaking, but use the focus scale in the viewfinder to get a more accurate distance to the subject. Good video. Good advice.
Excellent video. It's just what I needed to better understand how to use my Voigtlander 27 f/2 more effectively when stopped down in Zone Focusing. Very clear presentation. It's so great to understand what has been confusing and frustrating. Many thanks.
A very timely video Peter. Received my VG 18mm f2.8 on Tuesday and straight away ran into this problem, thanks for clearing it up with this post, appreciate it. T.
I frequently switch between the Fuji 35 1.4 and VL 40 1.4 and this never even occurred to me! And now that I think about it, yep, I've felt let down by the results I've gotten when relying on the peaking many times. Great info.
Thanks for this video - I suspected this was the cause for occasional out of focus shots and you have clearly demonstrated this to be the case.
Excellent informative video! To the best of my knowledge...you covered a topic that hasn't been covered before!
Wonderful video, thank you. You have increased my knowledge and skills. Another issue that isn't specific to any brand or type of lens is diffraction. Fuji crop sensors are more sensitive to diffraction which may start as early as F8 and likely by f11. If shooting at F16 or f22 with any lens on a crop sensor, diffraction will significantly soften the image. We can't avoid that - it is the physics of the lens. I suggest not stopping down past f8 on any fast lens.
Yes, the softness from diffraction is evident in my photos. Don't usually stop all the way down unless I really need the DoF.
Great info! I just bought my first Voigtlander lens (27mm f2), and I’m planning to use it on my Fuji XT5. Your video is very helpful. Thanks for covering this topic!
I've had my 27mm about a month. Using it on my X-Pro3. Loving the experience. 📷👍
@@pgknighton Such a gem of a lens! The colours out of it is absolutely incredible.
Thanks good demo! Greatly appreciated
Thanks for this suggestion. I've learned to set the focus on f1.2 and then, stop down as desired. Focus peaking doesn't work as well once stopped down. It's certainly a lot slower but a great suggestion.
Thank you - very valuable for many.
For those of us who learned photography before "open aperture measurement" was a thing (late 60s, 70s, ... - and it was a welcome thing) the applied physics is clear as concerns using CV lenses today. Or for those who regularly use vintage manual lenses. But it pays to point out the factor and ways to deal with it. Also: You need to be aware of what the DoF scale actually means ... Fuji provides two settings for the blue bar, then there's the one on the lens (hard to use). Need to be applied differently depending on your enlargement requirements.
Nobody ever said there is no learning curve with photography ...
The key is not to stop the lens to f11 or f22 not only due to depth of field but phenomena known as defraction. On a 40mpix sensor I would go to f8 max if you want to have reasonable sharpness. The story about aperture of Fuji lenses ha snothing to do with Fujifilm but with how all mirrorless cameras works for more then a decade.
Yup, I have a video out on diffraction with one of these lenses. The closeness of the rear element to the sensor creates issues. Nevertheless, for an enthusiast putting stuff on social media, diffraction is a non issue.
Let's be clear about the nature of the problem. We're talking about the 23mm and 18mm when used stopped down to f11 and more. We have a perfect storm for focusing problems when we combine their short focusing throw with their large depth of field when stopped down and the way the mechanical aperture operates. This produces a very deep range of "in focus" as shown by the focusing aids. Punching in focus check doesn't help very much. If we want to nail critical focus, we have to go an extra step to ensure that the best plane of focus is where we want it to be.
Thanks for the explanation. But please keep in mind that stopping down beyond f/11 will decrease the sharpness on Fuji 26 MP sensors due to diffraction, beyond f/8 on the 40 MP sensors.
Very interesting vid, thanks a lot! I love my Voigtlander 27mm f/2 on my Fuji XT5, but recently I suffered from unsharp images, while shooting in quickly changing circumstances (people moving around etc). Didn’t understand it, since I use focus peaking, high red, all the time. Will definitely try your suggestions now. If the shot is right, the Voigtlander produces fantastic images.
thank you. You just solve my problem. you are my hero.
Thank you for this video ! Definitely has the same issue.
Thank you, for your skills!
Very helpful thank you
Or you use your back dial to magnify and find the point of focus, like you do when wide open...?
If you take a second look, I did that in the video.
@photographybypetercharles9939 I'm afraid you didn't when stopped down to f16 with the Voightländer. If you do, you'll probably see where the focus is. If not zoomed in everything seems red at a high f-stop, but if you zoom in, you'll quickly recognise where the critical point of focus is.
At least it works that way with a 15mm Voightländer on a Sony APSC.
Anyway, thanks for your videos. I enjoy watching & learning.
Have a nice weekend!