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So like, I think the moral of the story is that there's only a total of twelve real people on the Internet, and they're all fighting with each other with dozens of sock puppets.
One important detail: Years before "Israa" started writing Hamilton fics, she was writing fics for Hetalia and posting them on AO3. And according to the timeline of her life story, she wrote all of these Hetalia fics... while stuck in the Indian brothel.
literally the first thing that comes to mind thinking about how ursula connects the dots between alix's school email and her twitter and just goes "alix, thats you" is just the mental image of alix having an ace attorney-style breakdown animation 💀
as a tumblr user since 2014, i've seen a lot of bullshit, but reading "Alexander Hamilton is George Washington's sugar baby" felt like getting hit by a sniper
Im sorry but as a tumblr user since 2014 I've seen stuff like this so many times I'm completely desensitized, like the girls are writing Mehmed The Second x Dracula's Real Life Brother fanfic and putting in my tags
Actually he kinda was irl tho, I'm not sure how much I like it as a fanfic concept but it would be a fire insult to throw in the real guy's face if you ever got the chance
“Mistake” is… putting it extremely lightly. Mostly because it wasn’t an accident that she literally lied about having aids, even when people came to confide in her about their/a relative’s diagnosis. That’s not a mistake
@@VultureSkinsIt’s not a mistake in the accident sense, but it’s definitely a mistake in the “holy fuck what was I thinking, I’ll regret that for a long time” sense
@@VultureSkins Fujos are a mistake in on itself to be honest and I'm so happy that lesbian spheres finally start to talk about how toxic and homophobic the community at large is tbh.
Obviously what Alix did was terrible, but I also can't let Ursula off the hook for being like "doxxing is illegal and immoral" and THEN JUST DECIDING TO DO IT ANYWAY
No one deserves to be doxxed. It opens the person being doxxed and everyone they know to real world harassment and harm. People who didn’t do anything wrong are often sent photos of their house, followed to school and work, and mailed death threats because they are “guilty by association”. It’s not cute.
hearing Ursula ended up doxxing her KILLED me. After all that, after all that "i would NEVER EVER DO THAT unlike YOU" and "I am not an arbiter of morals", they ended up doxxing Alix still. This is truly the "everyone sucks in their own way" tumblr story.
Ursula is also a TERF and started bullying Eldena Doubleca5t (the last person who covered this story) because she wouldn't back her up in some drama with Sarah Z, who called attention to the fact that one of Ursula's friends reblogged TERF-y stuff. Alix was bad, but so was Ursula. There are no good people in this story.
LITERALLY THIS What Ursula did was a genuinely good thing, I’m never going to deny that, but the way they acted like a martyr during the whole thing really put a bitter taste in my mouth. For someone who claimed not to be the abrader of morals, reading the language they used really made them seem like they thought of themself like a moral savior. Really, the doxxing and how they seemed so determined to make Alix suffer after this was the nail in the coffin for how I feel about this person
Yeah, I was in their corner up until that part (and, while Alix was in the wrong, she did have good reason to be worried about a stranger grilling her- I'm just curious on why she didn't just block Ursula. Maybe she felt the need to justify herself?)
@@sunettas9738I feel she was too afraid to block because she DID dig up her personal info, and wanted to try and cover her tracks as much as she could while also trying to placate this person on the internet Ngl tho Ursa was really weirdly obsessive about Alix's reactions, I would've been scared too
Ursula was absolutely 100% in the wrong for doxxing Alix, but god that initial confrontation was wild. The fact Alix's initial response to being accused of faking multiple identities online was "nonono, they're real people, I just *stole/mimicked the identities of people I know IRL* to fake multiple identities online" is BONKERS
Fun fact: I interacted with allolesbean, sort of. She jumped onto one of my posts about being ace and called me a pedophile because I said that I started to realize I was different around 16 years old and she thought that asexuality should be strictly 18+
I'm a Muslim, not a hijabi myself but some of my friends are and oh my God they go into so much effort. There are a lot of different wrapping styles and techniques meanwhile Alix just threw a blanket on like she's emperor fucking Palpatine
@@janjanbinks1710 I'm the opposite of you lol. Hijabi but not Muslim and I will say sometimes we throw something quick to cover ourselves if we don't feel like searching for a scarf and need a quick picture/video/or need to answer the door. Out of all the crap she's done, I think this little bit of criticism isn't really fair.
What’s wild about this is that Alex would have gotten into infinitely less trouble if she just wrote the fanfic as a just white hiv negative weirdo lol
This was when "SJW Culture" was in full swing. Alix was concerned that, if she wrote her fic and was honest about her identity, people would come for her for appropriation.
@@Kintsugi23 calling writing fiction “appropriative” is only applicable in a few select instances anyway, but writing about an experience you haven’t had is way better than uuuh lying about being a sex trafficking victim
Exactly! I think she got so far into the fandom morality police mentality that when she realized she wanted to write the kind of fiction that she condemned other people for writing, she had to concoct a whole web of lies to justify the cognitive dissonance of it all. She knew first-hand what kind of harassment writing "problematic" fic could get you in certain fandom circles around that era - because she was the one doing the harassing.
@@beek.4860 Absolutely. I think this is also why Alix freaked out so bad about the prospect of being doxed, getting cancelled, having her chances of getting into grad school ruined. She knew that, if the shoe had been on the other foot, she would have done everything in her power to destroy someone else who had done what she did.
The apparent "real photo of Israa" is something else to behold. It literally looks like someone threw a blanket over her head pretending to be hijab and cranked down the gamma, it is not a selfie I think anyone could be proud of unless they were intentionally trying to hide their identity
@@det-onator5270 Not necessarily the face. The hair, chest, and outline of the body are required, with some debate on what that should mean. Some people opt to cover their faces, sometimes also obscuring their eyes with mesh.
The truly astounding thing about it to me is that the fic didn't even do that well. A couple hundred kudos in a fandom as active as Hamilton at its height would have been pretty average.
I dont know how Hamilton fanfic was doing back then but looking it up now, the most Kudo's fic in AO3 has 7,700 kudos and its from 2015 (interestingly QPQ "only" has 4,800). So yeah, 600 is not nothing, honestly it is impressive, far more than my lowly fics have ever gotten but nowhere near the lofty heights of page 1
@@emiliobustamante2401 Yeah, like, it's not bad, at that point you're definitely doing well enough, you haven't fallen into the pit of nothingness. But it would probably have been good for the 400th-or-so most popular Hamilton fic on the site at the time. You would have to scroll pretty deep in to start reading it.
when i was writing on ao3 i 100% paid more attention to hits than kudos. i saw it more like youtube, views are what people look at first, then likes. obviously a high amount of kudos is better, but not everyone is gonna leave them, especially with ao3s stupid fucking system that doesn’t let you take them back
Even after all this time, the line "I am not here to give you absolution, I am not the arbiter of morals" fucking slaps so hard and should be remembered forever.
Kind of takes something away from it knowing that she believed she _was,_ in fact, the arbiter of morals, and proceeded to attempt to set Alix's entire life alight because _a teenager lied on the internet._
Kinda like the guy who said “you are a coward wearing the facade of a revolutionary” but he was talking about how people were horny for the robots in atomic heart
@@jacksyoutubechannel4045 Alix wasn't a teenager, she was 24 at the time. I'm not defending doxxing by any means, but alix was an adult who should've known better than to lie to such an extent and keep said lie going for multiple years, especially because she lied about being from multiple minority groups to harass people and gave medical advice when she was neither a doctor nor someone who lived with aids. Alix did far more than just lie, she led people on about serious medical issues and led harassment campaigns against people based on her fake identities.
ursula telling alix that "tumblr isn't as a big of a deal as you think it is" and then going off to email alix's university about tumblr drama expecting them to give a shit is some insane energy like what
I mean, to be fair. Alix was in the governing body of a social justice group in her university. That is the sort of thing that gets you a strong reprimand because of racism. Also, depending on the degree, this is the sort of thing that really, really doesn't fly.
I mean, the person is a cereal liar and completely untrustworthy. They're also a threat to themselves and others, so it kind fits with what one should do.
The fact that Ursula was chased off of the internet not for fully doxxing a teenager WHICH IS VERY MUCH MORE ILLEGAL THAN WHAT HIVLIVING DID, but for writing problematic fanfiction will never not be peak fandom tumblr to me tbh
True, when I first heard the story on Eldena Doubleca5t's channel, I felt bad for them since their efforts to help were being dumped on because of their strange fanfiction... but then the doxxing came up and I was like okay nevermind 😶
Was izreel raised and lives in poor black neighbor hoods? Adopted and trained up in the same viewpoints, rights of passage and mentality? Otherwise isn't it just white guilt over stuff dead and buried decades ago only used by guilty white people and race baiters using both sides typically for financial gain(rarely power grabs) which just so happens to look like the possible motive behind the whole Hiv thing (attention confused for power) . As far as issues to discuss there's prison reform non racist (every side has people in prison family, family of friends, and basic human decency towards even the worst of the worst is something we as humans living howmany centuries after the Romans slaughtered each other in the colosseums for fun would want as character traits.
Absolutely screaming at the fact that Ursula repeatedly assured Alix that they weren't going to dox her because it was wrong, and then going back on their word and doxxing not only Alix, but their parents as well by revealing their full names. Like Alix isn't a good person, but Ursula sure ain't winning the moral high ground
@@cemeterygxtes disagree here. Ursula had the power to threaten her and told her "don't delete". It was an implicit threat that Alix took as a questionable situation, and Alix's repeated asks of "but will you dox me?" were very explicitly just a way to assure their safety. As a pathological liar, Alix had trust on the other person's words and didn't read the fine print. She had already made her plan to escape long ago, and Ursula wasn't having any of it. Dox the doxxer back, I call that karma. It's on her parents to have raised that little shit so badly.
@nhaedzwero43 friend when you are a) encouraging *doxxing* of all things--including the doxxing of her parents, b) blaming the stupid behavior of someone *entirely* on the parents while knowing nothing of the home situation, and c) psycologically analyzing the situation while being an outsider, you are not ok. yes, parent behaviors can influence children. yes, alix deserved to be reprimanded for her behavior. yes, alix does have some mental issues undoubtedly. but bro. you saw this entire video and those were your takes
@@entrancedsnow7076 you can easily prevent it by flipping the image and editing it slightly like strategic cropping, slight color edits, general filter, grayscale. its pretty easy
People who know they're doing something that's wrong will make weird moral exceptions to feel like it's less bad. "I might be lying about every aspect of myself, but I'm not stealing someone's identity, so it's not THAT bad."
hamilton is a great musical show, questionable take on history, and an INCREDIBLE impact on society i am THRILLED that we have done this to the founding fathers
i’m gonna be vulnerable for a minute and share this ~ i both read and enjoyed to scale the blue sky when i was a high school freshmen. i made playlists and mood boards. there’s one chapter in the fic where the main characters make red ribbons for aids awareness and pass them out at school, so i spent an entire night safety pinning together red ribbons to pass out at school on world aids day. i kind of faded out of the hamilton fandom after that and did not know about this whole situation until your video. which means i have spent 7 whole years thinking this fic was just a quiet blip and that israa and naj were real people. i say all this because i need you to understand how insane it feels hearing all this information now. i feel like a victorian child eating a warhead
somehow my brain processed "victorian child eating a warhead" as referring to a literal nuclear weapon and not the sour candy, and i think that sums up how i felt reading your comment. my condolences
@@beek.4860omg, I forgot about the existence of that candy! I thought “what a bizarre idiom” since English isn’t my first language and sometimes it’s idioms or sayings are _wild_ 😂
I think my "favorite" part was when people started questioning how "Israa" could be pregnant if she had a wife, so she started claiming her wife had actually been a trans woman this whole time
Listen, i can see Israa's story being real... If she wasn't a teenager... It reads off like an 80 year olds recounting of her life throughout the years, not something a 17 year old would say happened in 2 or 3 (?) Years.
i genuinely laugh every time i think about the fact that thomas jefferson helped to establish this country and "fought for the freedoms of it's citizens" (excluding anyone that wasn't white men) just for, over 200 years later, someone to make the miku binder thomas jefferson art. i think that is incredible
Fun fact. He didn't even want to enfranchise all white male protestants. He hated the Germans of all people. In the 1790s, Jefferson wrote that Germans would be the downfall of America.
i need anyone reading these comments to know i knew the artist who drew miku binder jefferson LMFAO they were in the roleplay community on deviantart. aside from drawing thomas jefferson miku binder they also roleplayed danny from game grumps as a trans man & kurt cobain overdosing iirc. roleplayed kurt at the very least tho and i remember it was sketchy. but from my personal experiences with them up until that point they were very chill & fun to write with
I like to think that before he died Jefferson found the monkey’s paw and wished to be famous and remembered. And 200 later we got Hamilton followed shortly after by miku binder Jefferson.
It must be teenagers, right? Like, I can't imagine this being anything other than a child's lack of perspective. Y'know, like when a 16 year old stays that 26 is "old?" My brain can't rationalize it any other way
@@noinfo4789 it was Entrapta. She's kind of drawn in anime style so I guess her age is a bit ambiguous from appearances, but she's like a scientist and she definitely doesn't sound like a child. She's the mad scientist archetype.
@@JaylukKhan wait entrapta from she-ra? Was the ship entrapdak (entrapta/hordak) because if so that straight up doesn't make any sense in the slightest (its obvious that shes not a child and their both consenting adults also isn't it a cannon ship?)
So between this, MsScribe, Sarah Z’s Toby video, and Hbomb’s Tommy Tallarico video, I think “video essay unraveling someone’s years of lies” is a new favorite RUclips genre for me
as much as we laugh at miku binder jefferson, the fact that he is represented as a queer black man would absolutely enrage the real Jefferson and i for one think that’s something worth celebrating
nah. i think it's a pretty misguided attempt to turn historical ghoulish people acceptable, and make an oppressive national myth acceptable. no amount of changing real people into characters is worth that. to me, it's just a step short of white-washing. and who cares what Jefferson thinks, he's dead.
all this discourse about Hamilton in general and we forget the most important thing that can bring us all together: it is probably making the founding fathers roll in their graves like rotisserie chickens
"Israa was a 19 year-old Chinese-Pakistani Muslim, with a wife named Mukta who was an 18 year-old (part?) Somali trans-lesbian Catholic raised in America" Me, a history/world religions researcher with a girlfriend from north India, and thus very interested in the complex history between China/India/Pakistan: 𝗢𝗵 𝘁𝗵𝗶𝘀 𝗶𝘀 𝗴𝗼𝗻𝗻𝗮 𝗯𝗲 𝙜𝙤𝙤𝙙.
@@QabimIt seems like Alix thought opposing difficulty for marginalised people means presenting a very marginalised person existing without facing any difficulty. Which isn't really surprising, their main interest was a musical that has slaveholder politicians played by black actors singing hip-hop songs
@@idk_a_plantthe partition of india into india and pakistan was utterly brutal, with up to 2 million people being killed. Pakistan and india have basically been in their own cold war ever since, with multiple conflicts, paramilitary funding, and nuclear weapons construction. China and india also have multiple disputed territories, and have fought a war over it in 1967, with border clashes still going on to this day. Safe to say that being half Chinese, half pakistani in india isnt a recipe for a good time
I was nodding along, completely on Ursula's side as they dug all this up and confronted Alix, right up until they went back on their word and *actually* doxxed her. That just tainted the whole thing.
@@kaitlin9288i am not the arbiter of morals" said Ursula, acting all moral and uppity for what seems to be several days while hounding a literal teenager who did something very stupid but ultimately mostly harmless in the grand scheme of things
I thought I was weird for seeing what they did was wrong because generally they’re portrayed as being “the good guy”. I’m glad that I’m not just being weird even if Alix DEFINITELY wasn’t in the right.
@@thehermit8618 While I wouldn't argue that Alix's actions were *entirely* harmless (she did lie to a lot of people who were in more vulnerable positions than she was), the moment Ursula doxxed her it stopped being about trying to help people and more about performing an act of retribution. Before, I could at least interpret their action of calling Alix out as well-meaning but very misguided. With the doxxing though, the only person Ursula was serving by doing that was Ursula
coming back to this again; alix claiming to be "chinese/pakistani" while saying her family is from "xinjiang" is especially a giveaway that she was lying. for context occupied east turkestan is referred to as "xinjiang" by the chinese government but uyghurs(the people of east turkestan) do NOT refer to it as such, and uyghurs almost never call themselves chinese
There are in fact many Hui people in Xinjiang, though. Though yes if someone is a muslim person from Xinjiang they're much more likely to be Uyghur. So a muslim person from Xinjiang who consistently calls themselves "Chinese" would make sense if they're Hui, although to be fair, to begin with a Muslim person in Pakistan who has immigrated from Xinjiang is almost certainly a Uyghur, so in that sense the story indeed doesn't add up.
If Alix just lied about being a trafficking survivor and HIV positive they probably never would have gotten caught, but they went for a BIG lie and it was too much for them
@@thisgoddamusernamestoodamnlong it's probably a bad thing my first thought with these "liar revealed" stories is "wow I would've been better at lying then them" but at least of I'm ever in police interrogation I'll keep my story straight
@@annawesometheflameingpikac3688 PSA: If you're ever in police interrogation you should probably not be focusing on keeping your story straight or lying well and should instead be trying to get out of it ASAP by calling a lawyer and refusing to answer any further questions (assuming you are in a jurisdiction where you are allowed to do that). Even if you're innocent, talking to the cops is how false convictions happen.
now I want a fight between Alix "im going to make up trauma and exploit it" and Onision "here's my actual traumatic childhood and how im VERY NOT TRAUMATISED AT ALL BY IT"
I think that last post hit one particular nail on the head- it isn’t that an HIV positive queer Muslim sex trafficking victim couldn’t exist, go to college, and meet a trans lesbian they want to have kids with all while living or planning to live in places that actively would love to see them dead. It is absolutely possible for a pair of human beings to check that many “marginalized group” boxes. But those people would NEVER spend their internet time writing that much Hamilton fan fiction or publicly talking about the intimate details of their lives, ESPECIALLY back then. When I read a story, especially a Tumblr one, where someone checks 26 of those boxes and also talks about it constantly my BS alarm does go off, just because it does feel like thats not what someone would do if they were. I hit a few boxes myself, and I do discuss them sometimes, but it’s not like every message, post, and story I write ties back to one of them and I tend to downplay them.
People who tick those boxes (including me) also wouldn't forget massive central parts of our lives/identities until it was convenient to own the haters 💀 especially not if your whole personality is _constantly talking about yourself._
also, people can write and discuss things without having to live them. they just need to educate themselves. though a genuine experience is always more authentic
Agreed, like doctors, historians, psychologists, etc don’t need to live/have lived what they studied to know about particular subjects. The emotional process of living those specific circumstances, however, are up to individuals who deal with it personally. An example that comes to mind rn is Fullmetal Alchemist and how Hiromu Arakawa handled war veterans and their trauma. She studied a fuck ton about war and its effects on society but went and interviewed those who lived it first hand in order to grasp whatever she could of the emotional history and scarring it left on those individuals. That’s how you respectfully handle experiences that are foreign to you in works of fiction, imo.
And also when someone lies about being any identity... they _will_ fuck up. It's a question of when, not if. If I lied about... I don't know, being some ethnicity other than white, from somewhere else (let's say Philadelphia) I would inevitably get tripped up by someone saying "oh hey, what about X! You'd know about X, right?" or a little insignificant fact I wouldn't know enough to fact check, like mentioning a grocery store or brand that's not common in Philly.
there was a piece of pink fuzz from my sewing on my screen but i thought it was a shrimp emoji cuz it was in a really convenient place that kept getting overlayed right over the text boxes and i just thought that everybody in this story was using an abnormal amount of shrimp emojis the whole time
If I had a dollar for every time a fanfiction author used an array of sockpuppet accounts to generate a cult of personality among a fandom's it-crowd and harass users that produce content they find objectionable and then got exposed by an early victim, I'd be quite wealthy, because it keeps on happening because nobody ever learns anything.
@@neckpeck2738There’s another similar story from the Old Guard (comic book and then movie adaptation) fandom about a white-ish power user faking PoC status to validate fandom opinions. The callout post (insofar as those can be trusted) dates from 2021, so there’s your evidence that this keeps happening
i knkw of at least 3 one direction fanfic writers who made fake accounts to be their fan club, their haters, and their closest friends. they all got caught and all happened years apart
I'm beyond floored that anyone thought Alix would like,,, be publicly reprimanded by their college over this? Especially in 2020. Like, yeah, what they did was shitty, but the idea of a REAL ASS UNIVERSITY publicly speaking out against Hamilton fandom drama is INCREDIBLY silly to me.
I'm honestly surprised if they didn't face _any_ consequences for the fraud (I'm guessing they decided it just wasn't worth it), but yeah, expecting anything publicly to come of it is pretty unrealistic. Sometimes if something is public enough, schools may end up asking someone to leave if their presence is causing problems for the school or other students, but this was such a niche internet thing that they were probably more baffled than anything else.
My guess is that the fraud was both small enough in scale and, presumably, undone, so it wasn't worth the efforts of any DA to bother following up on. And, I probably don't have to say it, but nobody who was willing to donate to Israa is going to have the money to chase this thing down in civil court at extreme loss to themself just to recover a bit of face over the ordeal.
I can't imagine anyone in administration at the college I went to even being able to make sense of this. They were all like 50+, you'd need to sit down and explain what Tumblr was, what fanfics were, a good bit of internet culture for them to half-way get what everyone was so upset about
If the majority of colleges wont even go after students or teacher sexual predators, i would be astounded they woupd care about a white girl racefaking and committing fraud on tumblr.
yeah it very much reflects the community that was involved at the time- like only a teenagers understanding of reality could make them think that a university would take action on one of their students over things they did on tumblr.
"Not all stories have a point to them. Sometimes they're just sad and disgusting from beginning to end." I feel like that summarises this pretty well tbh
My 46 year old mother overheard me watching this and I tried to explain it to her but it required so much context that I think it just made her more confused 😭 like no mom I can’t explain miku binder Jefferson to you I’m sorry
I was asked what homestuck was by my mom and she wouldn’t just take “it’s an old web comic with too much bs going on to explain” for an answer since “it couldn’t possibly be that complicated 😒” so I spent 20 minutes trying to tell her about it until she finally gave up lmao.
I actually listened to a podcast about fandom drama and one of their episodes was about HIVliving and the scandal and they actually read "To Scale a Blue Sky" and apparently it was A) was FAR MORE explicit than tagged/rated on AO3, B) had some weeeeeeeeeird portrayals of race C) was NOT accurate to the queer/poc experience in the 1980s at all and D) was generally mid af
Maybe a controversial opinion but most people are boring, and that's ok. You really don't need to come up with an elaborate backstory or fake minority status for Tumblr cred.
But to contrast. The absolute calamity that results from when people do this to a degree that mirrors some Manichaean real life power struggles between hierarchy and nobility is a level of messiness that I am always in awe of.
I misread the title as "Hiveliving" and I was hoping for a funny video into people who pretend to be ants or other insects blogging about what its like to live in a hive but instead I got hit in the face with a story that is absurd, infuriating, kinda sad and kinda funny all at the same time
My disgust for the actions Alix took aside, it's absolutely mind-boggling to me that she was in *college* while doing all this. I feel like this is the kind of thing someone should grow out of by the time they're 15. To continue doing it until your late teens/early twenties is absolutely wild to me, I can't even begin to wrap my head around the mentality behind it.
@@CindersSpot honestly yeah but i think a solid amount of this can be chalked up to immaturity. as OP said this is the kind of thing people do when they're 15 and stupid and i know people in their early 20s who have not quite grown out of the stupid-15-year-old phase yet. though mental illness probably helped here lol
@@CindersSpot oh yeah alix very very obviously had some underlying issues that needed help, but honestly you'd be surprised what people will do when they think they're anonymous and don't realize the potential consequences of their actions. it's a classic "web of lies gets too big to control and ends up controlling you" plot
According to one of Ursula’s posts, she started the whole charade when she was in her last couple years of high school, around 16-17, as this had been going on go at least a year or two before she was exposed, which was literally in her first semester of college
Even ignoring that I was aware of the story already the fact that one of them was the daughters of a diplomat who was trafficked certainly made me went “okay hold the fucking phone” because there’s no way in hell any criminal organization would be STUPID enough to do that without expecting the authorities to go full Liam Nielsen on them
@@SiRenfield The last group any criminal org, especially one like that wants to mess with is the U.S. feds because just about no where's safe. If the country you're in doesn't extradite to the U.S. then they will get you themselves, with or without that country's permission lol
My first exposure to this story was a "how well do you know tumblr culture" style quiz, where one of the questions was "Which of these did tumblr user hivliving claim to be? Select all that apply:" followed by this astronomically long list of names, ages, races, nationalities, sexualities, relationship statuses etc. I was Afraid™️...
While obviously Alix is the main villain here, there's also something really unseemly about the way Ursula acted in response. She can say whatever she wants about her intentions and interests; there is BARELY concealed glee at having her nemesis so thoroughly over a barrel on display, both in the chat log and in her subsequent posts.
yeah no ursula came off as a huge prick to me, too. i also dont think someone who doesnt care for identity politics would care that much about someone who, for the most part, provided helpful information had they not been an annoying nemesis.
@@coatimundi69 she has this 'tumblr isnt relevant' whatever thing going on and is acting like this as a full adult like definitely some kind of power trip lol
Yeah, the constant repeating by Ursula that she just wants an apology and won't dox Alix just made me more suspicious of Ursula's intentions. I think it was messed up to dox Alix after repeatedly assuring Alix that she wouldn't. I could maybe understand Ursula telling her college and her parents? But to share all her details with tumblr as a whole legit put Alix in danger.
Yeah man Ursula gives me the creeps. The little bit where she's complaining about everyone (besides her bc she's oh so smart) being too dumb to see the lies is so teenaged to me. It's not that nobody else could have caught on, it's because only she was unstable enough to spend real life time piecing together tumblr drama for the vindication of getting back at someone over Hamilton fanfic. What Alix did was gross and wrong... But getting her school involved, posting addresses and family's names, and dragging her real identity out into the online fandom space was DANGEROUS. What if someone had been so upset about it they'd opted to irl stalk or hurt Alix or her family? Real blood could have come from this.
me fuckin too. im p sure i was saved by basically having my own bubble of friends to talk abt it and once the tumblr tag started going south i just unfollowed
SAMEEE I think it's because I only got a tumblr after I moved into sanders sides, I spent most of my Hamilton days on wattpad. I do remember hearing of Quid Pro Quo and hivliving though,but I never interacted with it directly thank GOD
My aunt died of AIDS when I was 10. I recently found her panel in the blanket we had made back when she passed. The size of that blanket as a whole is mind blowing. It’s huge. So many lost lives.
I can't believe that Alix kept going to the same school until graduation. If I got outed as having faked every single minority identity at once, to PEOPLE I SEE EVERY DAY. I would simply leave forever
I'm sure 99% of her classmates wouldn't have any idea about any of this, but I get it- I would definitely consider getting out of here in case this all got out and the like
@@emiliobustamante2401not sure if it’s offensive to call Sapmi that, but don’t use the derivative for Sami, “lapp” is offensive. It’s not on the Wikipedia slurs list yet but it’s still not something you should say
I feel like a lot of the bizarre Tumblr fandom discourse of this era ended up serving as fuel for early incarnations of the reactionary "anti-SJW" movement, which is both a shame and fundamentally misses the point of what actually made these sorts of sagas so crazy. These sort of sagas don't come about because of some ideological flaw in identity politics or social justice or whatever, they're the result of weird, overzealous fandom types discovering those concepts and immediately trying to use them as a cudgel to win arguments about who Severus Snape was fucking.
EXACTLY it's the fakeness and performativity and misuse of serious issues and concepts for petty reasons. That's not a phenomenon that the left has any kind of monopoly on lol
Alix was in the wrong and there’s no doubt about that, but saying you’re not going to dox someone because it’s a crime and reassuring them repeatedly that their identity is safe and then proceeding to dox that person anyway just makes me really uncomfortable with portraying Ursula as if they’re in the right. Exposing Alix WAS something that had to be done as their lies obviously hurt people but they really didn’t have to commit a crime to do that.
Yeah. Also the fact that Ursula doxxed Alix because she deleted the blog feels crazy. I would rather the blog be deleted than continue to live in tags with the idea that the posts are still valid.
Yeah, what Alix did was horrible and so was what Ursula did, it just sounds like the first one wanted pity and to justify their awful fanfic/s as well as their opinions on some serious topics and the second felt all high and mighty and wanted to have the moral high ground over the first person despite themselves also being a terrible person. We can only hope they both have since learned from their mistakes, became better people and are doing well now despite all the terrible things they did some years ago, since it's difficult to prove whether that has happened or not.
To play the Devil's advocate, I suppose Ursula was sincere but got fed up with Alix's trying to weasel her way out of consequences and responsibilities. She kept lying and lying, and deflecting, and dodging, and at some point Ursula considered that the only way for her to actually deal with her shit was for her to be publicly unmasked. Doesn't make it legal, doesn't make it moral, but I do think it can be considered mitigating circumstance.
@@WolfeurUrsula asked for it to be sent from alix's uni email so she could get personally identifying info. It was calculated. She likely was always going to If you want to play devils advocate sure, but Ursulas conversation with Alix shows they were given final say on drafting the confession and that Alix was complying, plus that prior to Doxxing Ursula had the evidence of what Alix did that she could have posted herself to "bring out the truth" along with her conversation with personal info removed. Ursula may have said she didn't want to make callouts but well she said the same thing about doxxing but she was apparently able to change her mind on that one. Ursula didn't need to doxx to achieve what she was claiming to do and seems takes a vindictive glee in it after the fact so a devils advocate should probably take a slightly different angle
HIV living is one of my favourite niche internet scandals and whenever I try to talk to people about this they think I’m insane. Not even a Hamilton or Theatre girly
I understand. I once went on a whole Andy Thanfiction deep dive and became permanently incapable of being normal about him. He created at least 3 separate cults. Faked his death at least 3 times. Committed identity fraud. Created a fake charity and got banned from soliciting money in the state of Oregon. Created a convention he did not deliver on which put a friend of his $15,000 in debt and led to LoTR cast members getting briefly stranded in LA during the filming of one of the movies. Continually created new fake personas with ridiculous fake histories. And wrote multiple popular fanfictions in different fandoms under these false identities. What a guy.
I think I'm a little too conditioned for horrific twists in these stories, because I genuinely expected the next part of the story to be that Ursula *was also Alix and "found herself out" so she could get out of this scott-free and continue online as a hero as Ursula* before they ended up doxxing her
this isn’t related to the drama, but lizdexia (the author of the hamilton/washington fic) made fun of supernatural last year, and a fan exposed how she wrote explicit RPF about harry enten & nate silver (of 538 fame) before she went after and dated harry enten. she continued to write RPF about him even after getting with him and even had a reddit account where she talked about fantasizing about harry enten and nate silver together, along with a a lot of other details about their sexual relationship. so yeah, not a single normal person in this story 💀
Okay, I'm kind of in the sims 4 community on Tumblr, and the same shit happens this year! There was this person who portrayed themself as a fat genderqueer jewish native american with schizophrenia, and they would be in every discourse possible, and it was revealed that they were actually a white usamerican woman (it's always them). I had one interaction with her before it was revealed, and it was a wild ride ("They" were the authority on mental illness and health in the whole world because "they have" schizophrenia, and it's the most stigmatized mental health, and so I couldn't have been stigmatized for "simply" having severe anxiety. I was banned from the discord server for disagreeing with her about my own experience with my mental health)
i have a feeling i know who it was despite not being on simblr for a while. that place has always been weird and cliquey. was their username oak-something?
Fat, genderqueer, Jewish, native American, with schizophrenia...who argues with you that they're the only authority on anything because of their identity? I'm sorry you got involved with the nonsense...but I cannot read that list of characteristics and behaviors without it sounding like something I would write as a strawman to go trolling with.
@@thegrimharvest On the other hand, this is the problem one of the HIVLiving critics pointed out as shown in the video. There are, scientifically speaking, a lot of human beings. Someone fitting at least most of the characteristics you described probably exists. One of the most insidious things about HIVLiving and similar internet liars is that they make those real identities and real experiences sound fake to us.
If Alix's profile was correct and she was 24 at the time of her being exposed... Idk, there's an extra layer of creepiness of this 22+ year old manipulating a bunch of teenagers. I feel like a lot of people missed that detail lol.
yeah lots of people are saying that ursula doxxing alix was specially terrible bc she was a teen when that's... clearly not the case lol don't get me wrong doxxing in general is awful but alix was clearly not a teen
i kinda get the vibe that that was a lie, was she still living on campus at age 24? idrk how college works i’m australian lol also named alex so i’m so sorry on behalf of those with the same name
@@choccy_bagel I dont think thats super common. Gap years are fairly normal. but most people out of high school do a 4 year bachelors degree. A 24 year living at college is not super crazy, but I would think uncommon.
@@alexandrafrenchin my British uni most undergrad first years range from 17-27 and there are (considerably less but some) other students who are much older adults referred to as mature students but they’re not usually active participants in the same societies and social circles, people’s degrees are usually 3-4 years and there are also masters students who have already done their undergraduate degree so there’s a good chance she could be 24 at university
incredibly ready to watch this considering disability twitter had a similarly insane situation happen just recently, where it came out a white able-bodied woman had been pretending to be a black deaf amputee wheelchair user, including using photos of a person they knew who they claimed was their wife. she was not her wife, just a random person she knew irl. deleted everything and left us all with whiplash
omg something similar recently happened on the german side of twitter... someone lied about being a doctor who was also a wheelchair user and foster mom to a random (also disabled) teen girl she met at a lake years ago. what is up with people honestly??
Why is it that when people do this they always give themselves like, the MAXIMUM number of disabilities/minority statuses??? Like if they just picked one or two people would probably be so much less suspicious of them.
@@bubblegum1366Maximum clout and maximum greed, maximum victim identity shield. They're bad liars and can't help but go overboard with their lies. Also because ironically, people will defend them because of the sheer absurdity of their claims, i.e. "it must be true, who would/could make something like that up?"
Reminds me of something that happened on tiktok a while ago, where someone who claimed to have Huntington's and early onset dementia (along with potentially other things, it was a while ago so I don't remember all the details) claimed that some people she had hosted in an air BnB in her house were suing her for being traumatized by the presence of medical equipment, so she was trying to raise money for legal fees. When it all (thankfully pretty quickly) came out that she was lying about it all, she claimed to be her own twin sister to apologize on her behalf while also sticking to the claims?? It was a mess Edit: found a video talking about the situation ruclips.net/video/JTC1JtZ-mRM/видео.html
You know, when the When Posting Goes Wrong version of this story went up, there were a lot of commenters (myself included, regrettably) that painted Ursula as some kind of hero for their efforts. Looking at the situation now, I'm glad the comments section is willing to re-evaluate that stance in a more balanced light. Obviously I think what Alix did was supremely fucked up, but I don't agree with Ursula's decision to doxx her
I *believe* Elena (WPGW) took down the vid cause she got herself into a fight with Ursula after she (Ursula) expressed transphobic opinions - even though theres a screenshots of Ursula saying pro trans thing? - and she felt unconfortable with the vid, perhaps because it lionized Ursula, perhaps she didnt want to bring up old ghosts and gettig Alix AND Ursula more unwanted attention
It's not just that Ursula went back on their promise not to doxx Alix, it's that they went out of their way to doxx her as THOROUGHLY as possible, potentially ruining her life. Ursula said they went through a similar thing when they were 15 and grew from it, but it looks like they didn't learn much at all. Both of these people are awful, and I hope Ursula gets their comeuppance somehow Edit: If the acquaintance of Alix is to be believed then she's absolutely fine, so ig Ursula didn't actually cause that much damage, but certainly they could have and tried to
@@buhguh-r8gyeah it wouldve been one thing to be like “im the person who confronted her here’s a very brief rundown of how I figured it out” and a VERY different thing to go “AND HERES HER PARENTS FULL NAMES AND THE VALUE OF THEIR HOME” like whaaa. so basically alix’s fear of other ppl facing consequences for her actions WAS founded bc u wanted to be petty and drag her family into it?? alix was shitty but ursula very much isn’t a hero either
Something which I remember from this... event... was that Alix as Israa had been active in other fandoms before Hamilton. But she fucked up the timeline of her "life" and thus if you go back far enough it appeared she was posting fic (Hetalia fic, of all things) while still trapped in the brothel
as someone who went through a very long hamilton phase, i will say that thomas jefferson miku binder honestly felt not that far off from the musical. some of the songs slap, but i can’t say that i love its take on history now that im older and understand more. it did get me into musical theatre which saved my life though, so it will always have a special place in my heart.
yes. hamilton helped introduce me to other historical fiction musicals (great comet, les mis, falsettos) so i love it for that, but hamilton is. objectively strange.
I feel like Hamilton’s take on US history was an interesting subversion, but that subversion only really worked if you already knew the actual history. When the musical got popular with a younger crowd who had maybe taken a single high school US history class; that audience wasn’t well-served by the way the show assumes you recognize why all of its character depictions are so subversive. (Also, LMM’s crusty-ass flows would get him laughed out of any cypher happening after 1983,)
@@RLanceHunterI think that’s giving the american education system too much credit. I graduated without managing to take a single US history class of any sort (im not totally ignorant, but all my US history knowledge is from independent study).
@@TheElf_Online That is a good point. It just seems from my experience that the people who initially really liked Hamilton and then grew disillusioned with it tended to be folks who didn’t know much of the actual history, and only learned it later (souring their view of the show). That’s probably also why the biggest waves of both Hamilton enthusiasm and Hamilton backlash came from younger people.
This is a solid example of why the line is “listen to people of color” and not “never question what a person who calls themselves poc says”. Listening to poc means giving value to undervalued voices where you can, not just blindly accepting any old stranger on the internet. Also, this is deeply crazy and I feel less stable for watching this video, and I believe that a goblin may yet climb out of my phone.
It sucks so bad that even genuinely very good norms that were put in place for a reason can and have been abused and misunderstood like this. "Listen to poc/women/victims etc" okay but which ones? Cause they don't all agree. Like at all. As most groups of humans don't. But it's a good thought, pushing back on how often they're dismissed as overreactive even when they have good points. But people started using these slogans as weapons not as tools to remind themselves and others to be more understanding generally and open their minds and do more research. Nothing good was gonna come from that shift. It's like people who think that being urged to read/watch more books and movies written by women/nonwhite people is something that's going to automatically make you more enlightened if you check enough boxes off the to do list and then they're shocked when they find a surprising diversity of thought and quality. What it should be, what it was meant to be, is just encouraging people to actually *think* for the first time about how many works by these authors they actually engage with and trying to broaden your horizons as a whole. Plus, its pushing back against the general trend with women and minorities HAVING no choice but to hear the pov of white male writers all the time, meanwhile the opposite level of engagement and respect is never or rarely granted (boys not liking Books for Girls meanwhile girls basically have to read Books for Men...or books that are considered universal or default being one example)
oh boy! thanks strange for providing a video to watch in the background about a strange tumblr account that pretended to have hiv while i draw cute girls!!
Seeing Ursula snap and doxx Alix was like seeing your favorite character turn evil and commit the worst atrocities, like Cmon I was rooting for you! You are the chosen one! You were supposed to destroy the toxic, not join them!
2 minutes in and i feel obligated to say that i love that one of the first things to welcome me back to tumblr after an accidental multi year hiatus was “fanart i drew of miku binder thomas jefferson dying in a glue trap”
whenever ai art discourse comes up i bring up thomas jefferson miku binder bc no machine could ever create something like that. truly the pinnacle of human creativity
I’ve been on tumblr a long time and it still amazes me that I’ve managed to be completely separated from every single major drama. I am a vampire who misses every major historical event by being stuck in a well.
They were. As I said in another comment, I'm still bitter that we lost all of their writing over this. Their writing was beautifully evocative and certain lines are still seared into my brain as something I aspire to in my own writing
@@LittleSirBoy There's a lot of beautiful, well-written crackfic out there. Just because the premise is crack doesn't mean the writing is trash. In fact, good writing can elevate the absurdity of the premise and make for even better entertainment on the long run. Especially since the common writing style of short crackfics can be tiring to read which impacts longer crackfics negatively
"Naj", aka Alix, made a huge mistake by trying to appease Ursula during the initial confrontation, bending over backwards to explain away every inconsistency in her story. "Naj" should have maintained that self-righteous tumblr attitude we all know and love, and instead of trying to play defense, turn the tables and get deeply offended that Ursula was questioning her identity and prying into her personal life. Then Naj could have turned the whole thing into a "what gives you, a stranger on the internet, the right to question the identities of me and my partner?" type situation, then angrily block Ursula without answering any further questions. If anyone asks you about it later, say that Ursula was harassing you with baseless accusations and invasive questions about your finances and living situation. Then your followers will have your back and shun Ursula for being a creep, which will make her accusations seem meritless by default. Ya know, just some tips for aspiring catfish and grifters out there.
Or she could have just blocked Ursula without responding. Ursula might have gotten a few people to turn on "Israa", but everyone else would have chalked it up to coincidences/IP faking/etc (much like they did with Ms. Scribe) and it would have blown over. Ursula and co would have continued hating "Israa" the way they already did, "Israa's" friends would have continued buying the lie, and it never would have breached containment.
she also had the perfect opportunity since Ursula WAS being a prying, self-righteous ass about the whole situation, it would have been so easy for her to spin the narrative in her favor.
@@Apollo9898LP Exactly! Alix really dropped the ball. A more experienced bullshitter never would have let Ursula get the upper hand in that conversation. Tbh, I found myself rooting AGAINST Ursula because she as so fucking annoying about the whole thing, but I guess Alix was too easily scared and wracked with guilt to fight back.
I feel like if some stranger did randomly accuse you and your friend of lying about your identities when you're not, you'd put them on blast like "what the fuck is this?" and block them. Because it would be weird.
@@luthientinuviel3883 yup!!! i barely knew what it was about but i remember kids literally saying “i know this from/bc of hamilton!” and being so utterly confused lmfao
lmao I'm astounded I was able to keep my mouth shut in class during my hetalia AND hamilton days (helps that hamilton is much less relevant for canadian high schools lol)
The thing I don't understand is why Alix when that far. Like... She could have just claimed to be HIV positive to avoid criticism for her fanfic and that would have most certainly worked, and it would be very hard to dispute such a claim.
look up stolen valor sometime, the same thing happens with dudes that pretend they’re war heroes, they always end up having like, 500 medals of honor or whatever, i’m not a military nerd but there’s pictures of these guys that get caught doing it in their “dress uniforms” and they’re just absolute christmas trees of medals. Whatever this mental illness/personality disorder is, one of its hallmarks is the inability to fucking stop.
Sadly I wouldn't be surprised if it had something to do with ace discourse. I remember how gross it got, both sides were trying to claim that all the people with marginilised identities were on their side. HIVliving was vocally on the anti side, so I don't think it's far fetched to say Alix probably enjoyed the clout pretending to be several people of colour gave her in slanging matches. I wish the HIVliving blog was still available because I remember it being far more about ace discourse than you'd think for what was supposedly primarily an HIV resource blog. Mind you ace discourse got into everything back then. Truly a dark time. :(
@@aeddiefarmer ace discourse was absolutely mind boggling considering that it was almost entirely people who had a completely hypothetical stake in what they were arguing about. It was entirely theory-based speculative “what if” scenarios and it managed to pop up in pretty much all queer online spaces and utterly saturate them, and while i can’t prove it i strongly suspect that quite a few of the most prolific offenders did not belong to the communities they claimed to represent, and were in fact just the old live journal dramamongers, regenerated into new startling forms, using the queer community as their own personal playground for their insane manipulation games
I'm a queer nonbinary person who is survivor of a form of sex trafficking, and happily married to a trans woman. I am not hiv positive or a person of color so I cant imagine how those people feel but this whole story made me so annoyed. Like Alix honey if you want the trauma that bad you can have it. Its not fun, it's not interesting. It actually sucks.
literally she was using these marginalised identities and trauma like sex trafficking and miscarriages in order to win tumblr arguments??? girl go outside 😭
God Tumblr was so fun and insane as a kid. I remember the time my and my friend groups good buddy "racefaker" (who claimed to be a poc) was outted for...race faking. Or when I had a friend who had an extremely serious conversation with me about their feelings about how they were like actually an alien, and they felt seen because of a scene in Homestuck, and literally talked to me about it like it was the same as me being transgender. So many stories. Classic shit.
Wait but Cronus was a mean spirited joke at the expense of "lol the tumblr otherkins" on Hussie's part. Someone actually thought of him as representation?!?!
“racefaker” having to be outed for race faking is like if there was a us government employee in the 50s named vladimir vladimirovich who spoke with a conspicuous russian accent and all of his claims about his background were obviously falsifiable and everyone was shocked when he turned out to be a soviet spy
having heard about all this after being in the hamilton fandom at the time is like learning you were inches away from being hit by an intercontinental ballistic missle
SAME!! thank god i was very very far away from the discourse side of the fandom so i only remember laughing at that one reblog of the confession post that was like "1. wtf 2. why is this tagged hamilton" and totally forgetting about the whole thing for YEARS?? it's like finding out that time you thought you had a bad flu you had actually just barely survived brain-eating amoebas
i joined tumblr right around the time this was all going down AND was in the peak of my hamilton phase. knowing how i was only a few degrees of separation from all this makes me so glad that i never managed to get into the fandom itself (instead i was in the wings of fire tumblr fandom, which also has some batshit stories. though nothing on the level of this)
Same, especially grateful since I was a sapphic Indian living in a very politically tense state at the time. So glad I never learned about this while being a baby queer.
I don't respect Alix but watching Ursula try to be the "hero" here is incredibly annoying. Telling Alix its not a big deal because it's "just Tumblr drama" then proceeding to doxx her and reach out to people she really knows? like, she's making it worse
I went to school with her and she was my TA. Some of her friends say she used their names for her accounts and I think some of them didn’t even know bc we all found out from the When Posting Goes Wrong video. A lot of people were pissed bc she had a full ride in school and was doing all of this. Most people didn’t know. It was just wild to find out from a video.
The fact that she was smart enough to get a full ride scholarship but not smart enough to know not to pretend to be an HIV positive Muslim human trafficking survivor on the internet
Not in the hamilton fandom so this was very new to me. Honestly.. i went from being angry and appalled at hivliving to feeling somewhat bad for her. Like was she a terrible person? Yes. But at the end, she was grovelling and begging not to be doxxed. She returned the money (i think?) and from how she responded to ursula, it was very obvious she's a teenager. Ursula had good questions and cyberstalking skills that eventually exposed hivliving. Good on her. BUT she went from "you need to apologise to those you've hurt" and "i wont dox you if you just do (this)", to "let's dox her everything". Name, school, major, sent parents emails, sent the school emails etc. That's CRAZY. And Ursula cant seem to see past her growing giant ego and "i told you so" mentality. To the point she patronisingly called hivliving's followers "fucking stupid" for not noticing irregularities about her story. The followers are probably 13 y/os. The high horse she put herself on after cracking this case wide open, and by that I mean, doxxing someone (yes, an incredibly shitty person) online despite promising not to, and getting off on a power trip, makes her and hivliving BOTH terrible people in this drama.
yeah i agree. it's clear that all this really went to Ursula's head and by the end of it she was acting like she thought it was her divine right to demand hivlivings actions, expose her, decide how she should be "punished", etc... like at the end of the day you can tell someone what they did was wrong, you can tell them they should apologize, make them understand how they've hurt others... but you can't control them. seemed like she got so frustrated that she couldn't control hivliving that she took some control by doxxing her. then even started making up lies about what happened after. she was completely obsessed.
I've never been into callout culture, so maybe I'm misunderstanding it a little, but I legit wonder what was going through her head with some of these posts. Like the one about cultural appropriation - she obviously knew that's exactly what she was doing while she was complaining about it, so like... what kind of emotion did she get out of posting that? Did she feel moral superiority despite being extremely guilty of the thing she was being angry about? Why do this to begin with?
Lying about who you are is much older than the internet, but I guess the reasoning is that you're playing a character, an idea of a real person, and as a character, you can divorce your true self and actions from your online persona. She took that extreme position because her persona would, and that makes sense if you're playing a character. Edit: probably also some stuff about clout chasing, power, and online "celebrity" culture.
It probably started so slowly, and grew as a reaction to the guilt for the smaller lies. When you're pointing at someone else you're pointing away from yourself
Well, you see, what she did was completely different! Because she was doing it for a good reason! Reasons like Social power, and personal monetary gain! Totally different than those other culture vultures. Clearly...
I'm guessing it's a case of wearing the mask so hard you start inhabiting it. Not in a genuinely insane way. I'm sure she didn't have some Hollywood DID thing or anything. But she likely just adopted the mentality of the people she was pretending to be, and just stuffed all the cognitive dissonance into some small corner of her mind and ignored that. Disingenuous and dishonest, but it leaves her in a place where her emotions and outrage are real, even if the reasons for feeling them are absolutely ridiculous.
as someone who’s interacted with a similar person in real life, it has everything to do with power. For some people, something as silly as internet fame and clout counts as power and they chase that. Alex enjoyed the feeling of publicly humiliating other people with impunity, and enjoyed “Israa”’s status as a community leader and authority figure. The actual politics of it were just a shield for the clout chasing and visceral enjoyment of hurting others. This is also probably why most people in “Israa”’s circle were young people and teens-people who are more likely to be obsessed with clout chasing, sometimes don’t have a fully developed sense of empathy, and don’t understand the actual politics of intersectionality well enough to understand that it’s completely antithetical to abusing others and setting up weird alternate forms of hierarchy. So beware people online who profess to have good politics but seem to use that as a shield in personal beefs and to harass others.
I’m just confused on why people thought the university would do something?? Like try explaining this mess to administrators, they will have no idea what any of it means or how they would even punish her. Also why would they have any authority to punish her??? She didn’t use school accounts to do any of it so it has nothing to do with the university. I agree what she did was totally fucked up and maybe in a fair world she would have experienced more impactful consequences but this is the real world the school has too many students to worry about one doing, admittedly horrible and disgusting, things on the internet. I don’t know I was just shocked that people thought she would receive punishment from her school 🤷
Yeah, in the most simple of terms, completely removing the Hamilton and suckpuppeting context, what Alix was beign accused of by Ursula was harrasing people online but not as herself, which would refelect badly on the school. I dont really known what even the school was supposed to do regarding a students questionanble but ultimately not illegal activities. She wanst sending death threads, revenge porn or running a large scale profitable scam which harmed people
She was the head of some anti-racism group(s), yet was pretending to be a POC. The school should have been made aware of this. Plus as a student, you represent the school. The school would not want somebody with such a bad reputation being associated with them. The school had no idea how big or small the scandal would be, so they may have wanted to address the problem head on.
I mean... "they have defrauded people out of money using interstate communication which is a federal felony carrying a maximal sentencing of 20 years" is a probably everything the University need to know.
@@alisaishere Colleges and universities should not and generally do not discipline students for "having a bad reputation". This would be way worse for basically all marginalized people, just in the name of getting some kind of psychic satisfaction over a bad thing happening to somebody who was awful on the internet once. You do realize that, right? There is no workable version of this as a policy where schools only go after the people we don't like.
The university probably has dozens, maybe hundreds of worse students to deal with first. Lying about your identity for tumblr cred is shitty, but it's not like irl harrassment, SA, or drug dealing. Even if this scandal was big for the tumblr space, the vast majority of people at that university don't care. Most of them will hear about it, have a chuckle, then move on
man i was so on ursulas side throughout that whole ace attorney-style conversation with alix and then she just took a giant dive off the moral high ground by doxxing alix. like she said one million times she wouldn’t do that??
Alix definitely shouldn't have given her any information. Just made an apology and left it. I would not be surprised if Ursula wanted to dox her from the start and intentionally pressured her into giving the info she needed.
@@hiimcrazyfordrwho I mean that's definitely how it reads to me. If she didn't want information from Naj to be able to doxx her i genuinely have no idea why she went as far as she did. Finding out that she's Alix did essentially nothing except make the story more insane when the apology and leaving of social media should have been enough. If she really wanted Alix to believe that she wasn't going to doxx her then why on Earth was she constantly digging up information on her?? I don't know. It's weird and definitely suuuper not cool, especially since Ursula herself admitted that Alix was very young, like 19 at the most. Weird. edit: just a side note, it's odd that no one apparently knows how old Alix is, apparently there's photos out there saying she was 24? but Ursula herself said in one of her posts that she was 16-17 when she started and about 18 when the confrontation went down? honestly who can say, but doxxing is just as bad no matter what your age is. That shit could potentially not only put your life at risk but also the lives of your friends and family. Not cool, unlike many things there's actually a reason why it's illegal.
I think the "reason" she doxxed alix is that she made alix promise not to delete the HIV Living blog, but she did. Ursula absolutely wasn't justified, though. I don't agree with the poster who said Ursula was only doing this because of the fandom drama, but it's pretty clear from reading the exchange and the later posts that she was at least partially on a moral power trip. Which is something, I think, that lurks within everyone: Part of us just wants to bully people, for whatever awful reason. Feel like we're better than others. And that's why you see exactly the kind of holier-than-thou crap that Alix (or basically everyone in this story?) was doing all the time in online communities. We kid ourselves into thinking that if someone is bad enough, then suddenly cruelty is GOOD, and it's actually moral to be awful to them! It's important to watch yourself, to make sure you're actually trying to help people, and not just give in to that instinct.
I still see Ursula around tumblr sometimes (on a different URL that I won't reveal) and while I think they have a lot of good insights on a number of topics, it's clear that they often let their anger get the better of them and react very strongly, often innappropriately so. I think that's what happened in the Alix situation. I think Ursula is still very obsessed with the idea that Alix might do this again, or have done this again. At some point you have to let that go. I'm sure Ursula has good reasons to be angry at their life and the state of the world, but that was always one of the problems with tumblr- people who have really good and genuine reasons to be angry would use that anger to harm people to make themselves feel better, and present their anger as some kind of righteous crusade or social justice....no, it's just being cruel. It was never tone policing to ask that people not do this. But I wish Ursula well. And I wish Alix to have a life fulfilling enough that she doesn't ever do this again, and to never forget how being exposed as a liar felt (sans the doxxing which should never have happened).
@@glocrowhurst like the stanford prison experiment, i understand what you mean. it’s hard to stop yourself from putting yourself above other people when you have a reason that may, in your mind, justify doing so.
I thought Ursula was handling the situation okay, if not a bit too heavy handed on the ‘apologize’ rhetoric. But then you hit me with the ‘Ursula later made a post doxxing Alex’ and I have never frowned so hard in my life. The fact that Alex was BEGGING not to be publicly doxxed, and Ursula PROMISED she wouldn’t, and then she turned around and did it. I’m actually disgusted. Why does it seem like every ‘atone for your actions’ keyboard warrior is secretly just as morally bankrupt, if not even more so? I want to believe there’s some good, reasonable people out there who solve discourse, but god, it just seems like everyone ends up the villain in the end. Hypocrite culture tears me apart inside.
I hate doxxing too, but consider this: - she only told her parts of the truth, when confronted with evidence that she had lied, then she apologized and spun new lies, just to get confronted with the truth again. Rinse, repeat. - she told her she wouldn't delete the blog but did it anyway - In fact she was told to not delete a single thing and just apologize and she had to tell her this again and again - and again and again she lied, and deleted/privated stuff - the apology was so bare bones that she needed to get called out on it, before she added the details about how big the lie actually was - her apologies were meaningless. She gave them to placate Ursula, not bc she meant them. I am pretty sure she did all of this bc she got promised she wouldn't get doxxed. She pushed Ursula again and again to see with how much she would get away with. Again and again and again. She didn't regret lying. She regretted getting caught. Doxxing her was not right, I agree with this COMPLETELY. I understand why it happened though and I feel way more sorry for her victims than for her. She can just move now to a place where no one knows about this and starts over. The people in the group chat will forever remember her betrayal and that they discussed deeply personal stuff with someone who catfished them for FF-cloud. They were a prop for her, nothing else. Or for the people she bullied online to feel superior. Again, nothing but props for her. God this is so fucked up...!
I thought so too but what disgusted me abo it was Ursula not just doxxing Alix but doxxing her parents and sister too, remember she posted their full names in that whole doxxing post too. At least with Alix you could argue Ursula did it so she wouldn't just get away with it consequence free (doesn't make it right but at least it's somewhat understandeble) but damn leave innocent people out of it please!
I WAS THERE..... I was deep in Hamilton fandom, and Hamilton RPF was a pretty small fandom circle. I remember Ursula set up and co-modded a fandom charity fic auction that I took part in, and people who bought a fic were allowed to chose what charity they donated to, but Ursula had a list of restrictions on what charities you could donate to, including that you couldn't choose one that benefitted animals rather than people. That's what they were like - extremely passionate about entirely valid moral principles, in a way that invited totally unnecessary wank, and whenever someone picked a dumb fight, Ursula would come out swinging. They could've just specified a small list of charities the auction focused on and probably nobody would've had a problem! Their fic was absolutely for a niche audience (people who wanted to read and write fiction about the original Broadway cast of the musical Hamilton having sex with each other), but it was good. The longfic where Lin-Manuel Miranda fucks the ghost of Alexander Hamilton? Genuinely extremely compelling. They would write a fic where it seemed like a normal romance but something was just a little off, and then BAM, Jonathan Groff is a chupacabra. And you're there like goddammit, I knew something had to be coming, but you got me! So partially it was like yeah, we're in on the joke, but also their writing had an edge to it. What a time.
"BAM, Jonathan Groff is a chupacabra" is definitely not a sentence i thought i would read today! i was also deep in the 2016ish hamilton fandom and i legitimately remember reading the lmm x ghost hamilton fic so i CANT BELIEVE i somehow never made the connection between that fic and this whole saga (despite supernatural hamilton rpf being a specific enough genre that i prooobably should have put it together). that really was a time 😭
What hivliving did is fucked up and I’m sure hurt real people but I have to disagree with the user that said the situation is not at all funny. That apology being in the Hamilton tag is f*cking hilarious.
Revisiting this now that I exist outside pro/anti-ship talk I cannot help but feel like Ursula was less interested in getting Alix to admit what was wrong and more interested in some kind of fandom justice. The chatlogs really rub me wrong. Alix is disgusting, sure, but like. Girl you need to touch grass too
At BEST Ursula started off or had good intentions in there *as well* but this obviously wasn't just about the Justice of it all or 1) they wouldn't have DOXXED HER AFTER PROMISING NOT TO, for all the good it did 2) they wouldn't have been enjoying it so much lol like be serious bestie you were SO happy you finally got to take one of the Fandom Morality Police who'd attacked you down a peg
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Pin your comment!!
you forgot to pin 😭
Good luck with your Lunge operation ❤
You got her up in time!! Yass!!
hey strange are the mattresses edible
If we tried explaining this to a founding father it would kill them a second time
I’d be down for that
pog
good
let's do it 😊
hell yeah
So like, I think the moral of the story is that there's only a total of twelve real people on the Internet, and they're all fighting with each other with dozens of sock puppets.
The entire internet is made up exclusively of Toby, MsScribe, and HIVLiving. Every person is at least one of them. The three genders, if you will.
At this point I forget who I am. Are you one of my sock puppets? Am I yours? What is happening
i'm the 13th person. Just kidding, i'm a bot. As a large language model
everybody is Toby and we’re all Bible fanfic
@@IsaacMayerCreativeWorksA+ reference there
One important detail: Years before "Israa" started writing Hamilton fics, she was writing fics for Hetalia and posting them on AO3. And according to the timeline of her life story, she wrote all of these Hetalia fics... while stuck in the Indian brothel.
Well a lot of Hetalia fics read as if they where written by someone trapped in a foreign brothel
@@emiliobustamante2401☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️
😭😭
“she wrote hetalia fanfiction while stuck in an Indian brothel” might genuinely be one of the funniest sentences I’ve ever read
The brothel had good wifi
the whole ursula/alix exchange truly reads like a cross-examination in ace attorney it's insane
get the ace attorney bot!
literally the first thing that comes to mind thinking about how ursula connects the dots between alix's school email and her twitter and just goes "alix, thats you" is just the mental image of alix having an ace attorney-style breakdown animation 💀
Omg someone lol.exe this I'm begging
@@glassphoenix9095 I can see the characters nervous animation as the psyche locks break
😊
as a tumblr user since 2014, i've seen a lot of bullshit, but reading "Alexander Hamilton is George Washington's sugar baby" felt like getting hit by a sniper
Black Senator George Washington kicked me in the face right before that
The spinaimbot kind
Im sorry but as a tumblr user since 2014 I've seen stuff like this so many times I'm completely desensitized, like the girls are writing Mehmed The Second x Dracula's Real Life Brother fanfic and putting in my tags
Actually he kinda was irl tho, I'm not sure how much I like it as a fanfic concept but it would be a fire insult to throw in the real guy's face if you ever got the chance
@@CFpandemic Luckily burr dealt with that problem long ago
i don't agree with ursula on a moral level but "I have been [the Hamilton cannibal mermaid freak] for years" is a POWERFUL statement
How does this have no comments
Being known by a Tumblr mistake IRL is a fate worse than death.
“Mistake” is… putting it extremely lightly. Mostly because it wasn’t an accident that she literally lied about having aids, even when people came to confide in her about their/a relative’s diagnosis. That’s not a mistake
@@VultureSkinsIt’s not a mistake in the accident sense, but it’s definitely a mistake in the “holy fuck what was I thinking, I’ll regret that for a long time” sense
@@VultureSkins "mistake" ≠ "accident." mistakes can be accidental but they don't have to be.
@@VultureSkins Fujos are a mistake in on itself to be honest and I'm so happy that lesbian spheres finally start to talk about how toxic and homophobic the community at large is tbh.
@@VultureSkinsIt was definitely a mistake, as in she miscalculated the impact of her actions and fucked up in a MASSIVE way.
Calling real-life history "source material" is both accurate and awful
it's a canon event, i can't interfere
What’s worse is that I think they were actually referencing the _musical_ as the “source material” and not, you know, the actual history 🫠
you know, I can't even work out if that's correct or not.
I assumed they were referring to the book Hamilton is based on
I'm gonna refer to every bit of history as source material from now on. Sounds fancy. 😂
Obviously what Alix did was terrible, but I also can't let Ursula off the hook for being like "doxxing is illegal and immoral" and THEN JUST DECIDING TO DO IT ANYWAY
No one deserves to be doxxed. It opens the person being doxxed and everyone they know to real world harassment and harm. People who didn’t do anything wrong are often sent photos of their house, followed to school and work, and mailed death threats because they are “guilty by association”. It’s not cute.
I laughed so hard at that part!
Just because something is illegal and immoral doesn't mean you can't do it.
Ursula tricked the liar.
@@freval2493 not a minor*
It didn't sound to me like she actually thought doxxing was illegal or immoral so much as she was framing it that way as a veiled threat.
hearing Ursula ended up doxxing her KILLED me. After all that, after all that "i would NEVER EVER DO THAT unlike YOU" and "I am not an arbiter of morals", they ended up doxxing Alix still. This is truly the "everyone sucks in their own way" tumblr story.
This story is the very embodiment of "I hope to God I never meet ANY of you fucking people in Real Life"
Ursula is also a TERF and started bullying Eldena Doubleca5t (the last person who covered this story) because she wouldn't back her up in some drama with Sarah Z, who called attention to the fact that one of Ursula's friends reblogged TERF-y stuff. Alix was bad, but so was Ursula. There are no good people in this story.
LITERALLY THIS What Ursula did was a genuinely good thing, I’m never going to deny that, but the way they acted like a martyr during the whole thing really put a bitter taste in my mouth. For someone who claimed not to be the abrader of morals, reading the language they used really made them seem like they thought of themself like a moral savior. Really, the doxxing and how they seemed so determined to make Alix suffer after this was the nail in the coffin for how I feel about this person
Yeah, I was in their corner up until that part (and, while Alix was in the wrong, she did have good reason to be worried about a stranger grilling her- I'm just curious on why she didn't just block Ursula. Maybe she felt the need to justify herself?)
@@sunettas9738I feel she was too afraid to block because she DID dig up her personal info, and wanted to try and cover her tracks as much as she could while also trying to placate this person on the internet
Ngl tho Ursa was really weirdly obsessive about Alix's reactions, I would've been scared too
"They were beefing hard; they were debating the morality of daddy-kink jokes" is the most Tumblr sentence ever spoken aloud.
How the goddamn fuck does that happen
@@WTFisTingispingishow did I misread "goddamn" as "hard"?
Ursula was absolutely 100% in the wrong for doxxing Alix, but god that initial confrontation was wild. The fact Alix's initial response to being accused of faking multiple identities online was "nonono, they're real people, I just *stole/mimicked the identities of people I know IRL* to fake multiple identities online" is BONKERS
Didn't one of Ms Scribe's alts say the same thing?
honestly I think doxxing scammers is fine. she wasn't a child, she was in college. and she should have real life consequences for the shit she did
@@nunyabusiness164You're wrong.
@@nunyabusiness164 it isn't
@@nunyabusiness164should she face consequences? absolutely. Should she have been doxxed? Absolutely fucking not.
as an actual Indian lesbian named Izra this was WILD
Oof girl they were cosplaying as you
HELP ME@@janjanbinks1710
god tumblr is something else
Oof that must be sureal
.. or are you? Heyyyy Tumblr, Ursula here!
Fun fact: I interacted with allolesbean, sort of. She jumped onto one of my posts about being ace and called me a pedophile because I said that I started to realize I was different around 16 years old and she thought that asexuality should be strictly 18+
😭😭
once again confirming my theory if you have bad queer "discourse" takes you're batshit insane and should be avoided
what?
Wtf??
what the hell
12:03 absolutely losing it at the caption "sleepy hijabi" with a photo of someone who has clearly just tossed a blanket over their head
I clocked the twist of the story right there LMFAO
Alix, throwing a blanket over her head: is this a hijab?
I'm a Muslim, not a hijabi myself but some of my friends are and oh my God they go into so much effort. There are a lot of different wrapping styles and techniques meanwhile Alix just threw a blanket on like she's emperor fucking Palpatine
@@janjanbinks1710 I'm the opposite of you lol. Hijabi but not Muslim and I will say sometimes we throw something quick to cover ourselves if we don't feel like searching for a scarf and need a quick picture/video/or need to answer the door. Out of all the crap she's done, I think this little bit of criticism isn't really fair.
@@blueismylove3128 Ah, I understand. You can't really do a complex warp just to answer the door and cover up quickly.
What’s wild about this is that Alex would have gotten into infinitely less trouble if she just wrote the fanfic as a just white hiv negative weirdo lol
This was when "SJW Culture" was in full swing. Alix was concerned that, if she wrote her fic and was honest about her identity, people would come for her for appropriation.
@@Kintsugi23 calling writing fiction “appropriative” is only applicable in a few select instances anyway, but writing about an experience you haven’t had is way better than uuuh lying about being a sex trafficking victim
@@milkteamachine 100000%
Exactly! I think she got so far into the fandom morality police mentality that when she realized she wanted to write the kind of fiction that she condemned other people for writing, she had to concoct a whole web of lies to justify the cognitive dissonance of it all. She knew first-hand what kind of harassment writing "problematic" fic could get you in certain fandom circles around that era - because she was the one doing the harassing.
@@beek.4860 Absolutely. I think this is also why Alix freaked out so bad about the prospect of being doxed, getting cancelled, having her chances of getting into grad school ruined. She knew that, if the shoe had been on the other foot, she would have done everything in her power to destroy someone else who had done what she did.
The apparent "real photo of Israa" is something else to behold. It literally looks like someone threw a blanket over her head pretending to be hijab and cranked down the gamma, it is not a selfie I think anyone could be proud of unless they were intentionally trying to hide their identity
How in the hell did people not pick on the fact that she was racefaking when she posted that oh my god
I honestly didn't process it as remotely hijab-adjacent, I just thought of _The Ring._
@@Eloraurora "You have to reblog this post or you'll die in seven days" energy
literally the SECOND i saw the selfies i knew immediately none of it was real
@@det-onator5270 Not necessarily the face. The hair, chest, and outline of the body are required, with some debate on what that should mean. Some people opt to cover their faces, sometimes also obscuring their eyes with mesh.
The truly astounding thing about it to me is that the fic didn't even do that well. A couple hundred kudos in a fandom as active as Hamilton at its height would have been pretty average.
Right? When she said '600 kudos' I immediately became the Matthew McConaughey meme "THOSE ARE ROOKIE NUMBERS"
I dont know how Hamilton fanfic was doing back then but looking it up now, the most Kudo's fic in AO3 has 7,700 kudos and its from 2015 (interestingly QPQ "only" has 4,800). So yeah, 600 is not nothing, honestly it is impressive, far more than my lowly fics have ever gotten but nowhere near the lofty heights of page 1
@@emiliobustamante2401 Yeah, like, it's not bad, at that point you're definitely doing well enough, you haven't fallen into the pit of nothingness. But it would probably have been good for the 400th-or-so most popular Hamilton fic on the site at the time. You would have to scroll pretty deep in to start reading it.
when i was writing on ao3 i 100% paid more attention to hits than kudos. i saw it more like youtube, views are what people look at first, then likes. obviously a high amount of kudos is better, but not everyone is gonna leave them, especially with ao3s stupid fucking system that doesn’t let you take them back
@@umbreonic766 I look at ao3 like amazon. The amount of people that like it are far more telling of the quality than the amount that saw it
Telling this story to a founding father would kill them.
Showing vanilla Hamilton to a founding father would kill them
I think Ben Franklin would have a good chuckle.
@orkleth nah he definitely would 😭😭
I'd kill to see them see this
Good
Even after all this time, the line "I am not here to give you absolution, I am not the arbiter of morals" fucking slaps so hard and should be remembered forever.
literally sounds like Lucy Dacus wrote it
+
Kind of takes something away from it knowing that she believed she _was,_ in fact, the arbiter of morals, and proceeded to attempt to set Alix's entire life alight because _a teenager lied on the internet._
Kinda like the guy who said “you are a coward wearing the facade of a revolutionary” but he was talking about how people were horny for the robots in atomic heart
@@jacksyoutubechannel4045 Alix wasn't a teenager, she was 24 at the time. I'm not defending doxxing by any means, but alix was an adult who should've known better than to lie to such an extent and keep said lie going for multiple years, especially because she lied about being from multiple minority groups to harass people and gave medical advice when she was neither a doctor nor someone who lived with aids. Alix did far more than just lie, she led people on about serious medical issues and led harassment campaigns against people based on her fake identities.
ursula telling alix that "tumblr isn't as a big of a deal as you think it is" and then going off to email alix's university about tumblr drama expecting them to give a shit is some insane energy like what
THIS LMAO
I mean, to be fair. Alix was in the governing body of a social justice group in her university. That is the sort of thing that gets you a strong reprimand because of racism. Also, depending on the degree, this is the sort of thing that really, really doesn't fly.
imagine if alix actually fessed well enough that ursula never doxxed her... anyone up to write an RPF on this alt timeline?
I mean, the person is a cereal liar and completely untrustworthy. They're also a threat to themselves and others, so it kind fits with what one should do.
@@obyone878cereal lmao (and yeah it's fucked up)
The fact that Ursula was chased off of the internet not for fully doxxing a teenager WHICH IS VERY MUCH MORE ILLEGAL THAN WHAT HIVLIVING DID, but for writing problematic fanfiction will never not be peak fandom tumblr to me tbh
p sure scamming people out of money is more illegal than doxxing actually
@@DoomCabbitIt definitely varies from state to state at least
True, when I first heard the story on Eldena Doubleca5t's channel, I felt bad for them since their efforts to help were being dumped on because of their strange fanfiction... but then the doxxing came up and I was like okay nevermind 😶
@@sunettas9738Yeah I’m pretty sure the doxxing is why Minerva took down her video.
Was izreel raised and lives in poor black neighbor hoods? Adopted and trained up in the same viewpoints, rights of passage and mentality? Otherwise isn't it just white guilt over stuff dead and buried decades ago only used by guilty white people and race baiters using both sides typically for financial gain(rarely power grabs) which just so happens to look like the possible motive behind the whole Hiv thing (attention confused for power) . As far as issues to discuss there's prison reform non racist (every side has people in prison family, family of friends, and basic human decency towards even the worst of the worst is something we as humans living howmany centuries after the Romans slaughtered each other in the colosseums for fun would want as character traits.
Absolutely screaming at the fact that Ursula repeatedly assured Alix that they weren't going to dox her because it was wrong, and then going back on their word and doxxing not only Alix, but their parents as well by revealing their full names. Like Alix isn't a good person, but Ursula sure ain't winning the moral high ground
The only use for the moral high ground in this world is to determine terminal velocity when you swan dive of it.
Right. Alix is a horrible person but to doxx her so thoroughly that they found her PARENTS?? wild
@@cemeterygxtes disagree here. Ursula had the power to threaten her and told her "don't delete".
It was an implicit threat that Alix took as a questionable situation, and Alix's repeated asks of "but will you dox me?" were very explicitly just a way to assure their safety.
As a pathological liar, Alix had trust on the other person's words and didn't read the fine print. She had already made her plan to escape long ago, and Ursula wasn't having any of it.
Dox the doxxer back, I call that karma. It's on her parents to have raised that little shit so badly.
@@nhaedzwero43 ok but was it necessary to doxx her parents, people who weren't involved.
@nhaedzwero43 friend when you are a) encouraging *doxxing* of all things--including the doxxing of her parents, b) blaming the stupid behavior of someone *entirely* on the parents while knowing nothing of the home situation, and c) psycologically analyzing the situation while being an outsider, you are not ok. yes, parent behaviors can influence children. yes, alix deserved to be reprimanded for her behavior. yes, alix does have some mental issues undoubtedly. but bro. you saw this entire video and those were your takes
It is kind of funny that she lied about literally every aspect of her identity, yet apparently she was above using someone else's pictures
Probably because those could be reverse image searched
@@entrancedsnow7076 you can easily prevent it by flipping the image and editing it slightly like strategic cropping, slight color edits, general filter, grayscale. its pretty easy
People who know they're doing something that's wrong will make weird moral exceptions to feel like it's less bad.
"I might be lying about every aspect of myself, but I'm not stealing someone's identity, so it's not THAT bad."
hamilton is a great musical show, questionable take on history, and an INCREDIBLE impact on society i am THRILLED that we have done this to the founding fathers
Someday one of us will manage to go back in time and tell them this story
tommy jefferson is rolling in his grave
Don't you mean... The founding daddies!? ❤
@@jane_wants_to_feel As he should lol
@@jane_wants_to_feelthank god lol. Fuck that dude
i’m gonna be vulnerable for a minute and share this ~ i both read and enjoyed to scale the blue sky when i was a high school freshmen. i made playlists and mood boards. there’s one chapter in the fic where the main characters make red ribbons for aids awareness and pass them out at school, so i spent an entire night safety pinning together red ribbons to pass out at school on world aids day. i kind of faded out of the hamilton fandom after that and did not know about this whole situation until your video. which means i have spent 7 whole years thinking this fic was just a quiet blip and that israa and naj were real people. i say all this because i need you to understand how insane it feels hearing all this information now. i feel like a victorian child eating a warhead
This is fucking insane thank you for sharing (also the ribbons thing is so funny but you were still doing a good deed so it’s kinda wholesome)
I'm sorry for your loss. Thank you for your service.
somehow my brain processed "victorian child eating a warhead" as referring to a literal nuclear weapon and not the sour candy, and i think that sums up how i felt reading your comment. my condolences
you poor soul
@@beek.4860omg, I forgot about the existence of that candy! I thought “what a bizarre idiom” since English isn’t my first language and sometimes it’s idioms or sayings are _wild_ 😂
issra adding new plot points to her backstory to win arguments is hilarious
its like when you add more stuff to your backstory in dnd for more proficiencies.
"I attack and kill you with exposure lasers-"
"NUH-UH! ACTUALLY I HAVE MY QUEER SHIELDS ACTIVATED AND YOUR LASERBEAMS EXPLODE!"
All is fair in love and fake war
my dad is the CEO of Marginalization and he can get your account deleted 💯
I think my "favorite" part was when people started questioning how "Israa" could be pregnant if she had a wife, so she started claiming her wife had actually been a trans woman this whole time
Listen, i can see Israa's story being real... If she wasn't a teenager...
It reads off like an 80 year olds recounting of her life throughout the years, not something a 17 year old would say happened in 2 or 3 (?) Years.
honestly she couldve put her age as like. 27 and id believe the flowery language lmao
@@iwakeupandboomimaratthe flowery language was just standard on tumblr back then lol
this is EXACTLY what i was thinking
if she had just said that she was like...30? EXTREMELY believable for Tumblr back then
i genuinely laugh every time i think about the fact that thomas jefferson helped to establish this country and "fought for the freedoms of it's citizens" (excluding anyone that wasn't white men) just for, over 200 years later, someone to make the miku binder thomas jefferson art. i think that is incredible
Miku binder Thomas Jefferson art where Thomas Jefferson himself was black, to be precise 😂😂
@@anastasiazellner47 THATS LITERALLY THE BEST PART like i know thomas jefferson is rolling in his grave at being portrayed as a black trans man
Fun fact. He didn't even want to enfranchise all white male protestants. He hated the Germans of all people. In the 1790s, Jefferson wrote that Germans would be the downfall of America.
i need anyone reading these comments to know i knew the artist who drew miku binder jefferson LMFAO they were in the roleplay community on deviantart. aside from drawing thomas jefferson miku binder they also roleplayed danny from game grumps as a trans man & kurt cobain overdosing iirc. roleplayed kurt at the very least tho and i remember it was sketchy. but from my personal experiences with them up until that point they were very chill & fun to write with
I like to think that before he died Jefferson found the monkey’s paw and wished to be famous and remembered. And 200 later we got Hamilton followed shortly after by miku binder Jefferson.
I saw someone on tumblr call out a "pedo ship" where the younger person was 30.
Yeah, I’ve seen that a lot in the OUAT Fandom.
Did the 30 year old at least look young or was this another "im a 20 year old minor" situation . . . again
It must be teenagers, right? Like, I can't imagine this being anything other than a child's lack of perspective. Y'know, like when a 16 year old stays that 26 is "old?" My brain can't rationalize it any other way
@@noinfo4789 it was Entrapta. She's kind of drawn in anime style so I guess her age is a bit ambiguous from appearances, but she's like a scientist and she definitely doesn't sound like a child. She's the mad scientist archetype.
@@JaylukKhan wait entrapta from she-ra? Was the ship entrapdak (entrapta/hordak) because if so that straight up doesn't make any sense in the slightest
(its obvious that shes not a child and their both consenting adults also isn't it a cannon ship?)
So between this, MsScribe, Sarah Z’s Toby video, and Hbomb’s Tommy Tallarico video, I think “video essay unraveling someone’s years of lies” is a new favorite RUclips genre for me
my mothers very proud.
Thomas Jefferson was the first American Sonic
I wonder how many Guinness World records Israa held
@@noodlespook6689nowhere near tommy tallarico, i'm sure. his mother's very proud
Ms. Scribe worked hand-in-hand with Clarabella for five years
Ursula was acting like she was L in desth note with that interrogation 😭
I heard THE music playing in my head the whole time
Da na, da na, na, da na na na na na na na
as much as we laugh at miku binder jefferson, the fact that he is represented as a queer black man would absolutely enrage the real Jefferson and i for one think that’s something worth celebrating
That is why it’s one of my favorite things about it. I think it’s framed on his cell wall in hell
@@themorrigan7224lmao I love that
@@themorrigan7224 Satan, walking in cackling and holding a portrait: Oh he's gonna haaaate this
nah. i think it's a pretty misguided attempt to turn historical ghoulish people acceptable, and make an oppressive national myth acceptable. no amount of changing real people into characters is worth that. to me, it's just a step short of white-washing. and who cares what Jefferson thinks, he's dead.
all this discourse about Hamilton in general and we forget the most important thing that can bring us all together: it is probably making the founding fathers roll in their graves like rotisserie chickens
"Israa was a 19 year-old Chinese-Pakistani Muslim, with a wife named Mukta who was an 18 year-old (part?) Somali trans-lesbian Catholic raised in America"
Me, a history/world religions researcher with a girlfriend from north India, and thus very interested in the complex history between China/India/Pakistan: 𝗢𝗵 𝘁𝗵𝗶𝘀 𝗶𝘀 𝗴𝗼𝗻𝗻𝗮 𝗯𝗲 𝙜𝙤𝙤𝙙.
I was waiting for Israa to post about how hard it is being Pakistani in India but it just never came
@@QabimIt seems like Alix thought opposing difficulty for marginalised people means presenting a very marginalised person existing without facing any difficulty. Which isn't really surprising, their main interest was a musical that has slaveholder politicians played by black actors singing hip-hop songs
How could anyone read this and not instantly go "hey this totally bullshit".
what's the beef between China/India/Pakistan? I'm interested in country drama
@@idk_a_plantthe partition of india into india and pakistan was utterly brutal, with up to 2 million people being killed. Pakistan and india have basically been in their own cold war ever since, with multiple conflicts, paramilitary funding, and nuclear weapons construction. China and india also have multiple disputed territories, and have fought a war over it in 1967, with border clashes still going on to this day. Safe to say that being half Chinese, half pakistani in india isnt a recipe for a good time
I was nodding along, completely on Ursula's side as they dug all this up and confronted Alix, right up until they went back on their word and *actually* doxxed her. That just tainted the whole thing.
"I am not the arbiter of morals", Ursula says right before doxxing another human being for morality reasons
Yeah thats pretty fucked up
@@kaitlin9288i am not the arbiter of morals" said Ursula, acting all moral and uppity for what seems to be several days while hounding a literal teenager who did something very stupid but ultimately mostly harmless in the grand scheme of things
I thought I was weird for seeing what they did was wrong because generally they’re portrayed as being “the good guy”. I’m glad that I’m not just being weird even if Alix DEFINITELY wasn’t in the right.
@@thehermit8618 While I wouldn't argue that Alix's actions were *entirely* harmless (she did lie to a lot of people who were in more vulnerable positions than she was), the moment Ursula doxxed her it stopped being about trying to help people and more about performing an act of retribution. Before, I could at least interpret their action of calling Alix out as well-meaning but very misguided. With the doxxing though, the only person Ursula was serving by doing that was Ursula
coming back to this again; alix claiming to be "chinese/pakistani" while saying her family is from "xinjiang" is especially a giveaway that she was lying. for context occupied east turkestan is referred to as "xinjiang" by the chinese government but uyghurs(the people of east turkestan) do NOT refer to it as such, and uyghurs almost never call themselves chinese
oh wow, i didnt know this! yes, if this was more common knowledge, i bet someone wouldve clocked her bullshit right away instead of waiting 2 years
She claimed to be Uyghur? Not Hui?
There are in fact many Hui people in Xinjiang, though. Though yes if someone is a muslim person from Xinjiang they're much more likely to be Uyghur. So a muslim person from Xinjiang who consistently calls themselves "Chinese" would make sense if they're Hui, although to be fair, to begin with a Muslim person in Pakistan who has immigrated from Xinjiang is almost certainly a Uyghur, so in that sense the story indeed doesn't add up.
@@bridgettetheoctoling6208I was thinking more about her calling herself Chinese.
@@bridgettetheoctoling6208 pls stop saying xinjiang, its east turkestan.
If Alix just lied about being a trafficking survivor and HIV positive they probably never would have gotten caught, but they went for a BIG lie and it was too much for them
some peoples parents clearly never taught them to lie. Being vague is literally rule #1. Modern liars are so unprofesional
@@thisgoddamusernamestoodamnlong The internet allows for wild lies. No one can just ask your mom if it's true. People will fly too close to the sun.
@@thisgoddamusernamestoodamnlong it's probably a bad thing my first thought with these "liar revealed" stories is "wow I would've been better at lying then them" but at least of I'm ever in police interrogation I'll keep my story straight
the kind of person that would lie about these things can't stop themselves from lying about more and more things
@@annawesometheflameingpikac3688 PSA: If you're ever in police interrogation you should probably not be focusing on keeping your story straight or lying well and should instead be trying to get out of it ASAP by calling a lawyer and refusing to answer any further questions (assuming you are in a jurisdiction where you are allowed to do that). Even if you're innocent, talking to the cops is how false convictions happen.
now I want a fight between Alix "im going to make up trauma and exploit it" and Onision "here's my actual traumatic childhood and how im VERY NOT TRAUMATISED AT ALL BY IT"
Alix would 100% adopt Onision's backstory into her own.
Onion boy would be more focused on alix being way younger than him
@@Meleedroit "If only we'd met just 5 years ago. You could have come stay with me, after your escape from the brothel"
@@victorloefThat is so onion
Who’s this Onision?
I think that last post hit one particular nail on the head- it isn’t that an HIV positive queer Muslim sex trafficking victim couldn’t exist, go to college, and meet a trans lesbian they want to have kids with all while living or planning to live in places that actively would love to see them dead. It is absolutely possible for a pair of human beings to check that many “marginalized group” boxes. But those people would NEVER spend their internet time writing that much Hamilton fan fiction or publicly talking about the intimate details of their lives, ESPECIALLY back then.
When I read a story, especially a Tumblr one, where someone checks 26 of those boxes and also talks about it constantly my BS alarm does go off, just because it does feel like thats not what someone would do if they were. I hit a few boxes myself, and I do discuss them sometimes, but it’s not like every message, post, and story I write ties back to one of them and I tend to downplay them.
People who tick those boxes (including me) also wouldn't forget massive central parts of our lives/identities until it was convenient to own the haters 💀 especially not if your whole personality is _constantly talking about yourself._
also, people can write and discuss things without having to live them. they just need to educate themselves. though a genuine experience is always more authentic
Agreed, like doctors, historians, psychologists, etc don’t need to live/have lived what they studied to know about particular subjects.
The emotional process of living those specific circumstances, however, are up to individuals who deal with it personally.
An example that comes to mind rn is Fullmetal Alchemist and how Hiromu Arakawa handled war veterans and their trauma. She studied a fuck ton about war and its effects on society but went and interviewed those who lived it first hand in order to grasp whatever she could of the emotional history and scarring it left on those individuals. That’s how you respectfully handle experiences that are foreign to you in works of fiction, imo.
And also when someone lies about being any identity... they _will_ fuck up. It's a question of when, not if. If I lied about... I don't know, being some ethnicity other than white, from somewhere else (let's say Philadelphia) I would inevitably get tripped up by someone saying "oh hey, what about X! You'd know about X, right?" or a little insignificant fact I wouldn't know enough to fact check, like mentioning a grocery store or brand that's not common in Philly.
It's almost like they're writing a... fanfiction project
there was a piece of pink fuzz from my sewing on my screen but i thought it was a shrimp emoji cuz it was in a really convenient place that kept getting overlayed right over the text boxes and i just thought that everybody in this story was using an abnormal amount of shrimp emojis the whole time
You're living in a superior timeline
this is the best comment on this video
Why can’t all RUclips comments be like this
@@maddieb.4282be the change you wanna be 🦐🦐🦐
🦐🦐🦐🦐🦐🦐🦐🦐🦐🦐🦐🦐🦐🦐🦐🦐
"participated in ace discourse" I knew at that point shit was gonna go wild
hitting my head against a wall
If I had a dollar for every time a fanfiction author used an array of sockpuppet accounts to generate a cult of personality among a fandom's it-crowd and harass users that produce content they find objectionable and then got exposed by an early victim, I'd be quite wealthy, because it keeps on happening because nobody ever learns anything.
Wait, does it? Who, besides this Alix girl, and to a lesser extent MsScribe, has done it?
@@neckpeck2738There’s another similar story from the Old Guard (comic book and then movie adaptation) fandom about a white-ish power user faking PoC status to validate fandom opinions. The callout post (insofar as those can be trusted) dates from 2021, so there’s your evidence that this keeps happening
@@neckpeck2738 you could also prolly add toby from My Immortal, although Toby just harrasses different accounts to harrass himself
"but enough about Lily Orchard"
i knkw of at least 3 one direction fanfic writers who made fake accounts to be their fan club, their haters, and their closest friends. they all got caught and all happened years apart
I'm beyond floored that anyone thought Alix would like,,, be publicly reprimanded by their college over this? Especially in 2020. Like, yeah, what they did was shitty, but the idea of a REAL ASS UNIVERSITY publicly speaking out against Hamilton fandom drama is INCREDIBLY silly to me.
I'm honestly surprised if they didn't face _any_ consequences for the fraud (I'm guessing they decided it just wasn't worth it), but yeah, expecting anything publicly to come of it is pretty unrealistic. Sometimes if something is public enough, schools may end up asking someone to leave if their presence is causing problems for the school or other students, but this was such a niche internet thing that they were probably more baffled than anything else.
My guess is that the fraud was both small enough in scale and, presumably, undone, so it wasn't worth the efforts of any DA to bother following up on.
And, I probably don't have to say it, but nobody who was willing to donate to Israa is going to have the money to chase this thing down in civil court at extreme loss to themself just to recover a bit of face over the ordeal.
I can't imagine anyone in administration at the college I went to even being able to make sense of this. They were all like 50+, you'd need to sit down and explain what Tumblr was, what fanfics were, a good bit of internet culture for them to half-way get what everyone was so upset about
If the majority of colleges wont even go after students or teacher sexual predators, i would be astounded they woupd care about a white girl racefaking and committing fraud on tumblr.
yeah it very much reflects the community that was involved at the time- like only a teenagers understanding of reality could make them think that a university would take action on one of their students over things they did on tumblr.
"Not all stories have a point to them. Sometimes they're just sad and disgusting from beginning to end." I feel like that summarises this pretty well tbh
Sam O'nella quotes really do hit the hardest for me these days. In these trying times.😭
And this story didn't even have a dude who could eat an entire eel whole.
My 46 year old mother overheard me watching this and I tried to explain it to her but it required so much context that I think it just made her more confused 😭 like no mom I can’t explain miku binder Jefferson to you I’m sorry
Parents just don't understand.
I was asked what homestuck was by my mom and she wouldn’t just take “it’s an old web comic with too much bs going on to explain” for an answer since “it couldn’t possibly be that complicated 😒” so I spent 20 minutes trying to tell her about it until she finally gave up lmao.
@@supotter377(it could possibly be that complicated)
thankfully my mom and aunt are tumblr connoisseurs so it's a lot easier to explain them fandom drama than other members of my family
Well now I feel old (43)
I actually listened to a podcast about fandom drama and one of their episodes was about HIVliving and the scandal and they actually read "To Scale a Blue Sky" and apparently it was A) was FAR MORE explicit than tagged/rated on AO3, B) had some weeeeeeeeeird portrayals of race C) was NOT accurate to the queer/poc experience in the 1980s at all and D) was generally mid af
Alix doing literally exactly what she harassed and abused a bunch of other people for while also larping as an impoverished minority. Color me shocked
OMG are you talkimg about the SUPER niche Authors Note Pod, I listen to that episode too!
^^^ omg i miss author’s note (don’t like don’t listen) every day
i listened to that one too! knowing how bizarre the fic itself was makes this whole thing even funnier
@lischneider3701 by any chance do you have any links? Thanks
Maybe a controversial opinion but most people are boring, and that's ok. You really don't need to come up with an elaborate backstory or fake minority status for Tumblr cred.
Indeed. I personally take great comfort in the belief that I'm not special.
But to contrast. The absolute calamity that results from when people do this to a degree that mirrors some Manichaean real life power struggles between hierarchy and nobility is a level of messiness that I am always in awe of.
unfortunately, teens kind of lack the perspective to understand that until it's hindsight
literally their story was soo insane like how did people even believe that ☠️
Back in my day we just made fandom insert ocs...this is why the trollsonas need to make a comeback.
I misread the title as "Hiveliving" and I was hoping for a funny video into people who pretend to be ants or other insects blogging about what its like to live in a hive but instead I got hit in the face with a story that is absurd, infuriating, kinda sad and kinda funny all at the same time
Have you heard of the Facebook group where people pretend to be ants
Honestly that sounds kinda fun
L I F T
My disgust for the actions Alix took aside, it's absolutely mind-boggling to me that she was in *college* while doing all this. I feel like this is the kind of thing someone should grow out of by the time they're 15. To continue doing it until your late teens/early twenties is absolutely wild to me, I can't even begin to wrap my head around the mentality behind it.
@@CindersSpot honestly yeah but i think a solid amount of this can be chalked up to immaturity. as OP said this is the kind of thing people do when they're 15 and stupid and i know people in their early 20s who have not quite grown out of the stupid-15-year-old phase yet. though mental illness probably helped here lol
@@CindersSpot oh yeah alix very very obviously had some underlying issues that needed help, but honestly you'd be surprised what people will do when they think they're anonymous and don't realize the potential consequences of their actions. it's a classic "web of lies gets too big to control and ends up controlling you" plot
literally how did they find the time to do this in college
Sheltered rich white kid who doesn't know how the real world works syndrome
According to one of Ursula’s posts, she started the whole charade when she was in her last couple years of high school, around 16-17, as this had been going on go at least a year or two before she was exposed, which was literally in her first semester of college
As soon as I heard the alleged backstory, my first thought was, "You're a teenage white girl, aren't you?"
Heirloom hijab pins really gives it away.
Yyyyeeeeep 😂
Even ignoring that I was aware of the story already the fact that one of them was the daughters of a diplomat who was trafficked certainly made me went “okay hold the fucking phone” because there’s no way in hell any criminal organization would be STUPID enough to do that without expecting the authorities to go full Liam Nielsen on them
@@SiRenfield The last group any criminal org, especially one like that wants to mess with is the U.S. feds because just about no where's safe. If the country you're in doesn't extradite to the U.S. then they will get you themselves, with or without that country's permission lol
I was looking for the comments to confirm or deny this because of how wildly implausible the whole thing immediately felt lol.
My first exposure to this story was a "how well do you know tumblr culture" style quiz, where one of the questions was "Which of these did tumblr user hivliving claim to be? Select all that apply:" followed by this astronomically long list of names, ages, races, nationalities, sexualities, relationship statuses etc. I was Afraid™️...
do you have the link i NEED to see this quiz lmao
Plz link commenter!!
link
That's a cognitohazard
LINK LINK LINK!!!
While obviously Alix is the main villain here, there's also something really unseemly about the way Ursula acted in response. She can say whatever she wants about her intentions and interests; there is BARELY concealed glee at having her nemesis so thoroughly over a barrel on display, both in the chat log and in her subsequent posts.
yeah no ursula came off as a huge prick to me, too. i also dont think someone who doesnt care for identity politics would care that much about someone who, for the most part, provided helpful information had they not been an annoying nemesis.
@@coatimundi69 she has this 'tumblr isnt relevant' whatever thing going on and is acting like this as a full adult like definitely some kind of power trip lol
Yeah, the constant repeating by Ursula that she just wants an apology and won't dox Alix just made me more suspicious of Ursula's intentions. I think it was messed up to dox Alix after repeatedly assuring Alix that she wouldn't. I could maybe understand Ursula telling her college and her parents? But to share all her details with tumblr as a whole legit put Alix in danger.
As a wise Neopets player once said, "wow this place is a freakshow. I don't respect literally any of you people."
Yeah man Ursula gives me the creeps. The little bit where she's complaining about everyone (besides her bc she's oh so smart) being too dumb to see the lies is so teenaged to me. It's not that nobody else could have caught on, it's because only she was unstable enough to spend real life time piecing together tumblr drama for the vindication of getting back at someone over Hamilton fanfic. What Alix did was gross and wrong... But getting her school involved, posting addresses and family's names, and dragging her real identity out into the online fandom space was DANGEROUS. What if someone had been so upset about it they'd opted to irl stalk or hurt Alix or her family? Real blood could have come from this.
as someone who was neck deep in the hamilton fandom in 2017, I somehow missed all of this by the skin of my teeth and I will never be grateful enough.
same, i was heavily into the fandom from 2017-2018 and this all somehow flew under my radar completely
same, i was watching this like how did i not hear about any of these people??
same😭
me fuckin too. im p sure i was saved by basically having my own bubble of friends to talk abt it and once the tumblr tag started going south i just unfollowed
SAMEEE
I think it's because I only got a tumblr after I moved into sanders sides, I spent most of my Hamilton days on wattpad. I do remember hearing of Quid Pro Quo and hivliving though,but I never interacted with it directly thank GOD
My aunt died of AIDS when I was 10. I recently found her panel in the blanket we had made back when she passed. The size of that blanket as a whole is mind blowing. It’s huge. So many lost lives.
I'm very sorry for your loss
So sorry for your loss
Its a gigantic quilt, it makes me cry everytime i see it.
I can't believe that Alix kept going to the same school until graduation. If I got outed as having faked every single minority identity at once, to PEOPLE I SEE EVERY DAY. I would simply leave forever
I'm sure 99% of her classmates wouldn't have any idea about any of this, but I get it- I would definitely consider getting out of here in case this all got out and the like
If I was her and got "outed" I wouldnt just leave school, I would leave the country and live as a hermit in Lappland
I would simply pass away 🙃
For me it's the fact that she was in a SOCIAL JUSTICE GROUP in university. Like girl, how do you even show your face.
@@emiliobustamante2401not sure if it’s offensive to call Sapmi that, but don’t use the derivative for Sami, “lapp” is offensive. It’s not on the Wikipedia slurs list yet but it’s still not something you should say
I feel like a lot of the bizarre Tumblr fandom discourse of this era ended up serving as fuel for early incarnations of the reactionary "anti-SJW" movement, which is both a shame and fundamentally misses the point of what actually made these sorts of sagas so crazy. These sort of sagas don't come about because of some ideological flaw in identity politics or social justice or whatever, they're the result of weird, overzealous fandom types discovering those concepts and immediately trying to use them as a cudgel to win arguments about who Severus Snape was fucking.
Absolutely, usually it’s all boiled down to shipping wars with extra step
no, it definitely existed before this moment. tumblr was known as the “weird queer freak site” in anti sjw circles for years before this.
EXACTLY it's the fakeness and performativity and misuse of serious issues and concepts for petty reasons. That's not a phenomenon that the left has any kind of monopoly on lol
Alix was in the wrong and there’s no doubt about that, but saying you’re not going to dox someone because it’s a crime and reassuring them repeatedly that their identity is safe and then proceeding to dox that person anyway just makes me really uncomfortable with portraying Ursula as if they’re in the right. Exposing Alix WAS something that had to be done as their lies obviously hurt people but they really didn’t have to commit a crime to do that.
Yeah. Also the fact that Ursula doxxed Alix because she deleted the blog feels crazy. I would rather the blog be deleted than continue to live in tags with the idea that the posts are still valid.
Yeah honestly it felt like she was lowkey blackmailing her. They both seem awful and out for blood
Yeah, what Alix did was horrible and so was what Ursula did, it just sounds like the first one wanted pity and to justify their awful fanfic/s as well as their opinions on some serious topics and the second felt all high and mighty and wanted to have the moral high ground over the first person despite themselves also being a terrible person. We can only hope they both have since learned from their mistakes, became better people and are doing well now despite all the terrible things they did some years ago, since it's difficult to prove whether that has happened or not.
To play the Devil's advocate, I suppose Ursula was sincere but got fed up with Alix's trying to weasel her way out of consequences and responsibilities. She kept lying and lying, and deflecting, and dodging, and at some point Ursula considered that the only way for her to actually deal with her shit was for her to be publicly unmasked.
Doesn't make it legal, doesn't make it moral, but I do think it can be considered mitigating circumstance.
@@WolfeurUrsula asked for it to be sent from alix's uni email so she could get personally identifying info. It was calculated. She likely was always going to
If you want to play devils advocate sure, but Ursulas conversation with Alix shows they were given final say on drafting the confession and that Alix was complying, plus that prior to Doxxing Ursula had the evidence of what Alix did that she could have posted herself to "bring out the truth" along with her conversation with personal info removed.
Ursula may have said she didn't want to make callouts but well she said the same thing about doxxing but she was apparently able to change her mind on that one.
Ursula didn't need to doxx to achieve what she was claiming to do and seems takes a vindictive glee in it after the fact so a devils advocate should probably take a slightly different angle
HIV living is one of my favourite niche internet scandals and whenever I try to talk to people about this they think I’m insane. Not even a Hamilton or Theatre girly
I understand. I once went on a whole Andy Thanfiction deep dive and became permanently incapable of being normal about him.
He created at least 3 separate cults. Faked his death at least 3 times. Committed identity fraud. Created a fake charity and got banned from soliciting money in the state of Oregon. Created a convention he did not deliver on which put a friend of his $15,000 in debt and led to LoTR cast members getting briefly stranded in LA during the filming of one of the movies. Continually created new fake personas with ridiculous fake histories. And wrote multiple popular fanfictions in different fandoms under these false identities. What a guy.
I think I'm a little too conditioned for horrific twists in these stories, because I genuinely expected the next part of the story to be that Ursula *was also Alix and "found herself out" so she could get out of this scott-free and continue online as a hero as Ursula* before they ended up doxxing her
Plot twist: Both of them are actually Toby.
@@bubblegum1366and also, somehow, Ms.Scribe
omg now i really wish this was true
Genuinely in awe that this wasn't the case.
holy fuck i got that vibe too during their conversation, it all felt so SCRIPTED almost??
this isn’t related to the drama, but lizdexia (the author of the hamilton/washington fic) made fun of supernatural last year, and a fan exposed how she wrote explicit RPF about harry enten & nate silver (of 538 fame) before she went after and dated harry enten. she continued to write RPF about him even after getting with him and even had a reddit account where she talked about fantasizing about harry enten and nate silver together, along with a a lot of other details about their sexual relationship. so yeah, not a single normal person in this story 💀
Screenshotting this comment b/c what the fuck
No i refuse to believe anything you just said. On a fundemental basis i refuse to believe this could be true. I must. For my own sake
Okay I need to know more
@@sebastianissocool Why have you reminded me of this Sebastian I had nearly forgotten this
@@theMyRadiowasTaken I needed someone else to feel exactly as I felt at this exact moment.
Okay, I'm kind of in the sims 4 community on Tumblr, and the same shit happens this year! There was this person who portrayed themself as a fat genderqueer jewish native american with schizophrenia, and they would be in every discourse possible, and it was revealed that they were actually a white usamerican woman (it's always them). I had one interaction with her before it was revealed, and it was a wild ride ("They" were the authority on mental illness and health in the whole world because "they have" schizophrenia, and it's the most stigmatized mental health, and so I couldn't have been stigmatized for "simply" having severe anxiety. I was banned from the discord server for disagreeing with her about my own experience with my mental health)
😭😭😭
What a ride omg
i have a feeling i know who it was despite not being on simblr for a while. that place has always been weird and cliquey. was their username oak-something?
Fat, genderqueer, Jewish, native American, with schizophrenia...who argues with you that they're the only authority on anything because of their identity?
I'm sorry you got involved with the nonsense...but I cannot read that list of characteristics and behaviors without it sounding like something I would write as a strawman to go trolling with.
@@thegrimharvest On the other hand, this is the problem one of the HIVLiving critics pointed out as shown in the video. There are, scientifically speaking, a lot of human beings. Someone fitting at least most of the characteristics you described probably exists. One of the most insidious things about HIVLiving and similar internet liars is that they make those real identities and real experiences sound fake to us.
Omg you should message strange with the details for a video
If Alix's profile was correct and she was 24 at the time of her being exposed... Idk, there's an extra layer of creepiness of this 22+ year old manipulating a bunch of teenagers. I feel like a lot of people missed that detail lol.
yeah lots of people are saying that ursula doxxing alix was specially terrible bc she was a teen when that's... clearly not the case lol don't get me wrong doxxing in general is awful but alix was clearly not a teen
i kinda get the vibe that that was a lie, was she still living on campus at age 24? idrk how college works i’m australian lol
also named alex so i’m so sorry on behalf of those with the same name
@@choccy_bagel dang that’s insane!!! i also experienced the majority of university through covid so i think my perception is HELLA warped
@@choccy_bagel I dont think thats super common. Gap years are fairly normal. but most people out of high school do a 4 year bachelors degree. A 24 year living at college is not super crazy, but I would think uncommon.
@@alexandrafrenchin my British uni most undergrad first years range from 17-27 and there are (considerably less but some) other students who are much older adults referred to as mature students but they’re not usually active participants in the same societies and social circles, people’s degrees are usually 3-4 years and there are also masters students who have already done their undergraduate degree so there’s a good chance she could be 24 at university
incredibly ready to watch this considering disability twitter had a similarly insane situation happen just recently, where it came out a white able-bodied woman had been pretending to be a black deaf amputee wheelchair user, including using photos of a person they knew who they claimed was their wife. she was not her wife, just a random person she knew irl. deleted everything and left us all with whiplash
omg something similar recently happened on the german side of twitter... someone lied about being a doctor who was also a wheelchair user and foster mom to a random (also disabled) teen girl she met at a lake years ago. what is up with people honestly??
Wait holy shit what
Why is it that when people do this they always give themselves like, the MAXIMUM number of disabilities/minority statuses??? Like if they just picked one or two people would probably be so much less suspicious of them.
@@bubblegum1366Maximum clout and maximum greed, maximum victim identity shield. They're bad liars and can't help but go overboard with their lies. Also because ironically, people will defend them because of the sheer absurdity of their claims, i.e. "it must be true, who would/could make something like that up?"
Reminds me of something that happened on tiktok a while ago, where someone who claimed to have Huntington's and early onset dementia (along with potentially other things, it was a while ago so I don't remember all the details) claimed that some people she had hosted in an air BnB in her house were suing her for being traumatized by the presence of medical equipment, so she was trying to raise money for legal fees. When it all (thankfully pretty quickly) came out that she was lying about it all, she claimed to be her own twin sister to apologize on her behalf while also sticking to the claims?? It was a mess
Edit: found a video talking about the situation ruclips.net/video/JTC1JtZ-mRM/видео.html
something abt ursula still doxxing alix knowing how absolutely petrified she was of it is so fucking evil imo
No fr, that was LOW. After the DM crusade “for justice” only to go back on their word??..Dang.😬
heartwarming; the worst people you know are fighting each other
Better they fight each other than bully innocent people I guess ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I am absolutely loving this series of “Internet Drama for People who have never even seen grass” videos as someone who falls into that category
You know, when the When Posting Goes Wrong version of this story went up, there were a lot of commenters (myself included, regrettably) that painted Ursula as some kind of hero for their efforts. Looking at the situation now, I'm glad the comments section is willing to re-evaluate that stance in a more balanced light. Obviously I think what Alix did was supremely fucked up, but I don't agree with Ursula's decision to doxx her
I believe she even took down the video. I think she too had a change of heart
@@starbird3939 Apparently eldena got into a fight with ursula over another separate discourse
I *believe* Elena (WPGW) took down the vid cause she got herself into a fight with Ursula after she (Ursula) expressed transphobic opinions - even though theres a screenshots of Ursula saying pro trans thing? - and she felt unconfortable with the vid, perhaps because it lionized Ursula, perhaps she didnt want to bring up old ghosts and gettig Alix AND Ursula more unwanted attention
It's not just that Ursula went back on their promise not to doxx Alix, it's that they went out of their way to doxx her as THOROUGHLY as possible, potentially ruining her life. Ursula said they went through a similar thing when they were 15 and grew from it, but it looks like they didn't learn much at all. Both of these people are awful, and I hope Ursula gets their comeuppance somehow
Edit: If the acquaintance of Alix is to be believed then she's absolutely fine, so ig Ursula didn't actually cause that much damage, but certainly they could have and tried to
@@buhguh-r8gyeah it wouldve been one thing to be like “im the person who confronted her here’s a very brief rundown of how I figured it out” and a VERY different thing to go “AND HERES HER PARENTS FULL NAMES AND THE VALUE OF THEIR HOME” like whaaa. so basically alix’s fear of other ppl facing consequences for her actions WAS founded bc u wanted to be petty and drag her family into it?? alix was shitty but ursula very much isn’t a hero either
The Hamilton fandom feels like that Community meme where Troy walks in with the pizza and everything is on fire.
Yeah that is probably what every body who found the important confession post was feeling
Something which I remember from this... event... was that Alix as Israa had been active in other fandoms before Hamilton. But she fucked up the timeline of her "life" and thus if you go back far enough it appeared she was posting fic (Hetalia fic, of all things) while still trapped in the brothel
maybe it was just a very permissive brothel 💀
being in the hetalia fandom would have been more traumatizing than being in the brothel
As a Hetalian, I say: "Not all hetalians, but always a hetalian."
as someone who went through a very long hamilton phase, i will say that thomas jefferson miku binder honestly felt not that far off from the musical. some of the songs slap, but i can’t say that i love its take on history now that im older and understand more. it did get me into musical theatre which saved my life though, so it will always have a special place in my heart.
yes. hamilton helped introduce me to other historical fiction musicals (great comet, les mis, falsettos) so i love it for that, but hamilton is. objectively strange.
The best thing about Hamilton is that it got me to watch better musicals
I feel like Hamilton’s take on US history was an interesting subversion, but that subversion only really worked if you already knew the actual history. When the musical got popular with a younger crowd who had maybe taken a single high school US history class; that audience wasn’t well-served by the way the show assumes you recognize why all of its character depictions are so subversive. (Also, LMM’s crusty-ass flows would get him laughed out of any cypher happening after 1983,)
@@RLanceHunterI think that’s giving the american education system too much credit. I graduated without managing to take a single US history class of any sort (im not totally ignorant, but all my US history knowledge is from independent study).
@@TheElf_Online That is a good point. It just seems from my experience that the people who initially really liked Hamilton and then grew disillusioned with it tended to be folks who didn’t know much of the actual history, and only learned it later (souring their view of the show). That’s probably also why the biggest waves of both Hamilton enthusiasm and Hamilton backlash came from younger people.
I thought this was going to be a scandal about tumblr users who were living with HIV. But no it's a Hamilton HIV story scandal. 😭
which somehow makes it 10x more tumblr. like, a scandal involving actual HIV-positive people would be fucking wild, but this? this makes sense.
Yeah that's what everyone thought it was while it was happening too
This is a solid example of why the line is “listen to people of color” and not “never question what a person who calls themselves poc says”. Listening to poc means giving value to undervalued voices where you can, not just blindly accepting any old stranger on the internet. Also, this is deeply crazy and I feel less stable for watching this video, and I believe that a goblin may yet climb out of my phone.
It sucks so bad that even genuinely very good norms that were put in place for a reason can and have been abused and misunderstood like this. "Listen to poc/women/victims etc" okay but which ones? Cause they don't all agree. Like at all. As most groups of humans don't. But it's a good thought, pushing back on how often they're dismissed as overreactive even when they have good points. But people started using these slogans as weapons not as tools to remind themselves and others to be more understanding generally and open their minds and do more research. Nothing good was gonna come from that shift.
It's like people who think that being urged to read/watch more books and movies written by women/nonwhite people is something that's going to automatically make you more enlightened if you check enough boxes off the to do list and then they're shocked when they find a surprising diversity of thought and quality. What it should be, what it was meant to be, is just encouraging people to actually *think* for the first time about how many works by these authors they actually engage with and trying to broaden your horizons as a whole. Plus, its pushing back against the general trend with women and minorities HAVING no choice but to hear the pov of white male writers all the time, meanwhile the opposite level of engagement and respect is never or rarely granted (boys not liking Books for Girls meanwhile girls basically have to read Books for Men...or books that are considered universal or default being one example)
oh boy! thanks strange for providing a video to watch in the background about a strange tumblr account that pretended to have hiv while i draw cute girls!!
Spoilers!!!!!!
haha the perfect thing to watch while I sew some outdoor pillowcases
AYYY im doing the exact same thing!! lets gooo!!!!
realest comment ever
lmao same!!
Seeing Ursula snap and doxx Alix was like seeing your favorite character turn evil and commit the worst atrocities, like Cmon I was rooting for you! You are the chosen one! You were supposed to destroy the toxic, not join them!
I dunno, I can get the rage for sure...
I don't think Ursula ever snapped. I think that was always their intention.
In hindsight, Ursula came off as pretty creepy in that convo even before the doxxing.
@@Sylocat the fucking Edward 'say it out loud' moment. That was personal.
@@urbanarmory Oh of course the rage is understandable, but the action was horrible nonetheless
2 minutes in and i feel obligated to say that i love that one of the first things to welcome me back to tumblr after an accidental multi year hiatus was “fanart i drew of miku binder thomas jefferson dying in a glue trap”
Honestly the glue trap drawings are my favorite brand of meme, I wish I saw more of it
I SAW THAT TOO ITS AMAZING
Oh that one is a classic
whenever ai art discourse comes up i bring up thomas jefferson miku binder bc no machine could ever create something like that. truly the pinnacle of human creativity
I’ve been on tumblr a long time and it still amazes me that I’ve managed to be completely separated from every single major drama. I am a vampire who misses every major historical event by being stuck in a well.
Same here, I just curate my dashboard really heavily. My blocked tags and phrases list is probably a mile long
If Ursula puts as much detail in her fanfics are as her investigative work, I can imagine them being really well written.
Similar to how Ms Scribe might actually have been a decent fanfic writer of she was so good at writting "characters"
They were. As I said in another comment, I'm still bitter that we lost all of their writing over this. Their writing was beautifully evocative and certain lines are still seared into my brain as something I aspire to in my own writing
@@dragonfire160 Could you give us some examples, please?
...i've never read any but why would you expect a crackfic to be well written?
@@LittleSirBoy There's a lot of beautiful, well-written crackfic out there. Just because the premise is crack doesn't mean the writing is trash. In fact, good writing can elevate the absurdity of the premise and make for even better entertainment on the long run. Especially since the common writing style of short crackfics can be tiring to read which impacts longer crackfics negatively
Hamilton fandom is a fandom around an inaccurate RPF. Of course it would be like this. Good luck on your lung surgery.
"Naj", aka Alix, made a huge mistake by trying to appease Ursula during the initial confrontation, bending over backwards to explain away every inconsistency in her story. "Naj" should have maintained that self-righteous tumblr attitude we all know and love, and instead of trying to play defense, turn the tables and get deeply offended that Ursula was questioning her identity and prying into her personal life. Then Naj could have turned the whole thing into a "what gives you, a stranger on the internet, the right to question the identities of me and my partner?" type situation, then angrily block Ursula without answering any further questions. If anyone asks you about it later, say that Ursula was harassing you with baseless accusations and invasive questions about your finances and living situation. Then your followers will have your back and shun Ursula for being a creep, which will make her accusations seem meritless by default.
Ya know, just some tips for aspiring catfish and grifters out there.
Or she could have just blocked Ursula without responding. Ursula might have gotten a few people to turn on "Israa", but everyone else would have chalked it up to coincidences/IP faking/etc (much like they did with Ms. Scribe) and it would have blown over. Ursula and co would have continued hating "Israa" the way they already did, "Israa's" friends would have continued buying the lie, and it never would have breached containment.
she also had the perfect opportunity since Ursula WAS being a prying, self-righteous ass about the whole situation, it would have been so easy for her to spin the narrative in her favor.
@@Apollo9898LP Exactly! Alix really dropped the ball. A more experienced bullshitter never would have let Ursula get the upper hand in that conversation. Tbh, I found myself rooting AGAINST Ursula because she as so fucking annoying about the whole thing, but I guess Alix was too easily scared and wracked with guilt to fight back.
She was young still, I'm sure she's learned from her mistakes and is bullshitting people to this say.
I feel like if some stranger did randomly accuse you and your friend of lying about your identities when you're not, you'd put them on blast like "what the fuck is this?" and block them. Because it would be weird.
i remember the hamilton ppl speaking out in history class and generally being wrong it was insane
I enjoy Hamilton as a history nerd but kids who ONLY knew Hamilton filled me with indescribable rage
omg you just unlocked so many memories of middle school lmfao
Damn now I'm grateful it came out in my senior year of high school, sounds like I dodged a bullet
@@luthientinuviel3883 yup!!! i barely knew what it was about but i remember kids literally saying “i know this from/bc of hamilton!” and being so utterly confused lmfao
lmao I'm astounded I was able to keep my mouth shut in class during my hetalia AND hamilton days (helps that hamilton is much less relevant for canadian high schools lol)
The thing I don't understand is why Alix when that far. Like... She could have just claimed to be HIV positive to avoid criticism for her fanfic and that would have most certainly worked, and it would be very hard to dispute such a claim.
She wanted to be able to avoid criticism by as many facets as once- so she could claim to be an expert on those things without actually having to be.
look up stolen valor sometime, the same thing happens with dudes that pretend they’re war heroes, they always end up having like, 500 medals of honor or whatever, i’m not a military nerd but there’s pictures of these guys that get caught doing it in their “dress uniforms” and they’re just absolute christmas trees of medals. Whatever this mental illness/personality disorder is, one of its hallmarks is the inability to fucking stop.
Sadly I wouldn't be surprised if it had something to do with ace discourse. I remember how gross it got, both sides were trying to claim that all the people with marginilised identities were on their side. HIVliving was vocally on the anti side, so I don't think it's far fetched to say Alix probably enjoyed the clout pretending to be several people of colour gave her in slanging matches. I wish the HIVliving blog was still available because I remember it being far more about ace discourse than you'd think for what was supposedly primarily an HIV resource blog. Mind you ace discourse got into everything back then. Truly a dark time. :(
@@chexfan2000screenshotting that last line rq
@@aeddiefarmer ace discourse was absolutely mind boggling considering that it was almost entirely people who had a completely hypothetical stake in what they were arguing about. It was entirely theory-based speculative “what if” scenarios and it managed to pop up in pretty much all queer online spaces and utterly saturate them, and while i can’t prove it i strongly suspect that quite a few of the most prolific offenders did not belong to the communities they claimed to represent, and were in fact just the old live journal dramamongers, regenerated into new startling forms, using the queer community as their own personal playground for their insane manipulation games
ursula: are you sure that you have hiv, are a poc victim, and 3 different people?
alix: im not just sure, im HIV positive.
I'm a queer nonbinary person who is survivor of a form of sex trafficking, and happily married to a trans woman. I am not hiv positive or a person of color so I cant imagine how those people feel but this whole story made me so annoyed. Like Alix honey if you want the trauma that bad you can have it. Its not fun, it's not interesting. It actually sucks.
literally she was using these marginalised identities and trauma like sex trafficking and miscarriages in order to win tumblr arguments??? girl go outside 😭
What form? if ur ready
@@Lincolnlogsoffdo you need to know?
Priveleged kids want to be oppressed so bad
@@Lincolnlogsoffgirl
The phrase 'Alexander Hamilton/John Laurens high school AU set in the 80s during the AIDS crisis' killed me. I'm dead
Maybe it's because I don't read fanfiction but this wild type of AU never made any sense to me, like just write original fiction at that point lmao
God Tumblr was so fun and insane as a kid. I remember the time my and my friend groups good buddy "racefaker" (who claimed to be a poc) was outted for...race faking. Or when I had a friend who had an extremely serious conversation with me about their feelings about how they were like actually an alien, and they felt seen because of a scene in Homestuck, and literally talked to me about it like it was the same as me being transgender. So many stories. Classic shit.
I'm so shocked, shocked, that race faker was a race faker. It's always the ones you least expect.
Wait but Cronus was a mean spirited joke at the expense of "lol the tumblr otherkins" on Hussie's part. Someone actually thought of him as representation?!?!
IM SO SORRY THEY CALLED YOU AN ALIEN but as another of your otherworldly kind that is fucking hilarious
“racefaker” having to be outed for race faking is like if there was a us government employee in the 50s named vladimir vladimirovich who spoke with a conspicuous russian accent and all of his claims about his background were obviously falsifiable and everyone was shocked when he turned out to be a soviet spy
racefaker being a race faker has me laughing so hard i'm so sorry 💀
having heard about all this after being in the hamilton fandom at the time is like learning you were inches away from being hit by an intercontinental ballistic missle
SAME!! thank god i was very very far away from the discourse side of the fandom so i only remember laughing at that one reblog of the confession post that was like "1. wtf 2. why is this tagged hamilton" and totally forgetting about the whole thing for YEARS?? it's like finding out that time you thought you had a bad flu you had actually just barely survived brain-eating amoebas
i joined tumblr right around the time this was all going down AND was in the peak of my hamilton phase. knowing how i was only a few degrees of separation from all this makes me so glad that i never managed to get into the fandom itself (instead i was in the wings of fire tumblr fandom, which also has some batshit stories. though nothing on the level of this)
Same, especially grateful since I was a sapphic Indian living in a very politically tense state at the time. So glad I never learned about this while being a baby queer.
I don't respect Alix but watching Ursula try to be the "hero" here is incredibly annoying. Telling Alix its not a big deal because it's "just Tumblr drama" then proceeding to doxx her and reach out to people she really knows? like, she's making it worse
I went to school with her and she was my TA. Some of her friends say she used their names for her accounts and I think some of them didn’t even know bc we all found out from the When Posting Goes Wrong video. A lot of people were pissed bc she had a full ride in school and was doing all of this. Most people didn’t know. It was just wild to find out from a video.
Do you know how she’s doing now, like employment wise? Has this being out there impacted her at all?
This makes her legit so much worse oh my god
The fact that she was smart enough to get a full ride scholarship but not smart enough to know not to pretend to be an HIV positive Muslim human trafficking survivor on the internet
Not a super important detail, but what’s TA stand for?
@@Jay-cy8zv Teaching Assistant or Teacher's Aide
Ursula really came in with goofy fanfics and ended fully prepared to commit social murder
She really went "never let em know your next move"
This was Ursula's villain arc.
@@galactic-hamster7043 truly flabbergasted by the doxxing. A plot twist I did not expect in her arc
She worked so hard to get someone to do the right thing, then immediately went and did the wrong thing after finally succeeding.
Not in the hamilton fandom so this was very new to me.
Honestly.. i went from being angry and appalled at hivliving to feeling somewhat bad for her. Like was she a terrible person? Yes. But at the end, she was grovelling and begging not to be doxxed. She returned the money (i think?) and from how she responded to ursula, it was very obvious she's a teenager.
Ursula had good questions and cyberstalking skills that eventually exposed hivliving. Good on her. BUT she went from "you need to apologise to those you've hurt" and "i wont dox you if you just do (this)", to "let's dox her everything". Name, school, major, sent parents emails, sent the school emails etc. That's CRAZY. And Ursula cant seem to see past her growing giant ego and "i told you so" mentality. To the point she patronisingly called hivliving's followers "fucking stupid" for not noticing irregularities about her story. The followers are probably 13 y/os. The high horse she put herself on after cracking this case wide open, and by that I mean, doxxing someone (yes, an incredibly shitty person) online despite promising not to, and getting off on a power trip, makes her and hivliving BOTH terrible people in this drama.
yeah i agree. it's clear that all this really went to Ursula's head and by the end of it she was acting like she thought it was her divine right to demand hivlivings actions, expose her, decide how she should be "punished", etc... like at the end of the day you can tell someone what they did was wrong, you can tell them they should apologize, make them understand how they've hurt others... but you can't control them. seemed like she got so frustrated that she couldn't control hivliving that she took some control by doxxing her. then even started making up lies about what happened after. she was completely obsessed.
hivliving was in university. they were a grown adult doing that
@@CindersSpot highly unlikely but okay
@@CindersSpot im not amercan but its very uncommon for teenagers to attend university there, especially to complete a degree
Lying about doing humanitarian work in Gaza is vile on so many levels
I've never been into callout culture, so maybe I'm misunderstanding it a little, but I legit wonder what was going through her head with some of these posts.
Like the one about cultural appropriation - she obviously knew that's exactly what she was doing while she was complaining about it, so like... what kind of emotion did she get out of posting that? Did she feel moral superiority despite being extremely guilty of the thing she was being angry about? Why do this to begin with?
Lying about who you are is much older than the internet, but I guess the reasoning is that you're playing a character, an idea of a real person, and as a character, you can divorce your true self and actions from your online persona. She took that extreme position because her persona would, and that makes sense if you're playing a character.
Edit: probably also some stuff about clout chasing, power, and online "celebrity" culture.
It probably started so slowly, and grew as a reaction to the guilt for the smaller lies. When you're pointing at someone else you're pointing away from yourself
Well, you see, what she did was completely different! Because she was doing it for a good reason! Reasons like Social power, and personal monetary gain! Totally different than those other culture vultures. Clearly...
I'm guessing it's a case of wearing the mask so hard you start inhabiting it. Not in a genuinely insane way. I'm sure she didn't have some Hollywood DID thing or anything. But she likely just adopted the mentality of the people she was pretending to be, and just stuffed all the cognitive dissonance into some small corner of her mind and ignored that. Disingenuous and dishonest, but it leaves her in a place where her emotions and outrage are real, even if the reasons for feeling them are absolutely ridiculous.
as someone who’s interacted with a similar person in real life, it has everything to do with power. For some people, something as silly as internet fame and clout counts as power and they chase that. Alex enjoyed the feeling of publicly humiliating other people with impunity, and enjoyed “Israa”’s status as a community leader and authority figure. The actual politics of it were just a shield for the clout chasing and visceral enjoyment of hurting others. This is also probably why most people in “Israa”’s circle were young people and teens-people who are more likely to be obsessed with clout chasing, sometimes don’t have a fully developed sense of empathy, and don’t understand the actual politics of intersectionality well enough to understand that it’s completely antithetical to abusing others and setting up weird alternate forms of hierarchy. So beware people online who profess to have good politics but seem to use that as a shield in personal beefs and to harass others.
I’m just confused on why people thought the university would do something?? Like try explaining this mess to administrators, they will have no idea what any of it means or how they would even punish her. Also why would they have any authority to punish her??? She didn’t use school accounts to do any of it so it has nothing to do with the university. I agree what she did was totally fucked up and maybe in a fair world she would have experienced more impactful consequences but this is the real world the school has too many students to worry about one doing, admittedly horrible and disgusting, things on the internet. I don’t know I was just shocked that people thought she would receive punishment from her school 🤷
Yeah, in the most simple of terms, completely removing the Hamilton and suckpuppeting context, what Alix was beign accused of by Ursula was harrasing people online but not as herself, which would refelect badly on the school. I dont really known what even the school was supposed to do regarding a students questionanble but ultimately not illegal activities. She wanst sending death threads, revenge porn or running a large scale profitable scam which harmed people
She was the head of some anti-racism group(s), yet was pretending to be a POC. The school should have been made aware of this. Plus as a student, you represent the school. The school would not want somebody with such a bad reputation being associated with them. The school had no idea how big or small the scandal would be, so they may have wanted to address the problem head on.
I mean... "they have defrauded people out of money using interstate communication which is a federal felony carrying a maximal sentencing of 20 years" is a probably everything the University need to know.
@@alisaishere Colleges and universities should not and generally do not discipline students for "having a bad reputation". This would be way worse for basically all marginalized people, just in the name of getting some kind of psychic satisfaction over a bad thing happening to somebody who was awful on the internet once. You do realize that, right? There is no workable version of this as a policy where schools only go after the people we don't like.
The university probably has dozens, maybe hundreds of worse students to deal with first. Lying about your identity for tumblr cred is shitty, but it's not like irl harrassment, SA, or drug dealing. Even if this scandal was big for the tumblr space, the vast majority of people at that university don't care. Most of them will hear about it, have a chuckle, then move on
man i was so on ursulas side throughout that whole ace attorney-style conversation with alix and then she just took a giant dive off the moral high ground by doxxing alix. like she said one million times she wouldn’t do that??
Alix definitely shouldn't have given her any information. Just made an apology and left it.
I would not be surprised if Ursula wanted to dox her from the start and intentionally pressured her into giving the info she needed.
@@hiimcrazyfordrwho I mean that's definitely how it reads to me. If she didn't want information from Naj to be able to doxx her i genuinely have no idea why she went as far as she did. Finding out that she's Alix did essentially nothing except make the story more insane when the apology and leaving of social media should have been enough. If she really wanted Alix to believe that she wasn't going to doxx her then why on Earth was she constantly digging up information on her??
I don't know. It's weird and definitely suuuper not cool, especially since Ursula herself admitted that Alix was very young, like 19 at the most. Weird.
edit: just a side note, it's odd that no one apparently knows how old Alix is, apparently there's photos out there saying she was 24? but Ursula herself said in one of her posts that she was 16-17 when she started and about 18 when the confrontation went down? honestly who can say, but doxxing is just as bad no matter what your age is. That shit could potentially not only put your life at risk but also the lives of your friends and family. Not cool, unlike many things there's actually a reason why it's illegal.
I think the "reason" she doxxed alix is that she made alix promise not to delete the HIV Living blog, but she did.
Ursula absolutely wasn't justified, though. I don't agree with the poster who said Ursula was only doing this because of the fandom drama, but it's pretty clear from reading the exchange and the later posts that she was at least partially on a moral power trip.
Which is something, I think, that lurks within everyone: Part of us just wants to bully people, for whatever awful reason. Feel like we're better than others. And that's why you see exactly the kind of holier-than-thou crap that Alix (or basically everyone in this story?) was doing all the time in online communities. We kid ourselves into thinking that if someone is bad enough, then suddenly cruelty is GOOD, and it's actually moral to be awful to them! It's important to watch yourself, to make sure you're actually trying to help people, and not just give in to that instinct.
I still see Ursula around tumblr sometimes (on a different URL that I won't reveal) and while I think they have a lot of good insights on a number of topics, it's clear that they often let their anger get the better of them and react very strongly, often innappropriately so. I think that's what happened in the Alix situation. I think Ursula is still very obsessed with the idea that Alix might do this again, or have done this again. At some point you have to let that go. I'm sure Ursula has good reasons to be angry at their life and the state of the world, but that was always one of the problems with tumblr- people who have really good and genuine reasons to be angry would use that anger to harm people to make themselves feel better, and present their anger as some kind of righteous crusade or social justice....no, it's just being cruel. It was never tone policing to ask that people not do this. But I wish Ursula well. And I wish Alix to have a life fulfilling enough that she doesn't ever do this again, and to never forget how being exposed as a liar felt (sans the doxxing which should never have happened).
@@glocrowhurst like the stanford prison experiment, i understand what you mean. it’s hard to stop yourself from putting yourself above other people when you have a reason that may, in your mind, justify doing so.
I thought Ursula was handling the situation okay, if not a bit too heavy handed on the ‘apologize’ rhetoric. But then you hit me with the ‘Ursula later made a post doxxing Alex’ and I have never frowned so hard in my life. The fact that Alex was BEGGING not to be publicly doxxed, and Ursula PROMISED she wouldn’t, and then she turned around and did it. I’m actually disgusted. Why does it seem like every ‘atone for your actions’ keyboard warrior is secretly just as morally bankrupt, if not even more so? I want to believe there’s some good, reasonable people out there who solve discourse, but god, it just seems like everyone ends up the villain in the end. Hypocrite culture tears me apart inside.
+
I hate doxxing too, but consider this:
- she only told her parts of the truth, when confronted with evidence that she had lied, then she apologized and spun new lies, just to get confronted with the truth again. Rinse, repeat.
- she told her she wouldn't delete the blog but did it anyway
- In fact she was told to not delete a single thing and just apologize and she had to tell her this again and again
- and again and again she lied, and deleted/privated stuff
- the apology was so bare bones that she needed to get called out on it, before she added the details about how big the lie actually was
- her apologies were meaningless. She gave them to placate Ursula, not bc she meant them.
I am pretty sure she did all of this bc she got promised she wouldn't get doxxed. She pushed Ursula again and again to see with how much she would get away with. Again and again and again.
She didn't regret lying. She regretted getting caught.
Doxxing her was not right, I agree with this COMPLETELY.
I understand why it happened though and I feel way more sorry for her victims than for her. She can just move now to a place where no one knows about this and starts over. The people in the group chat will forever remember her betrayal and that they discussed deeply personal stuff with someone who catfished them for FF-cloud. They were a prop for her, nothing else.
Or for the people she bullied online to feel superior. Again, nothing but props for her.
God this is so fucked up...!
Good people exist, they're just not involved in this nonsense
@@genericname2747 REAL
I thought so too but what disgusted me abo it was Ursula not just doxxing Alix but doxxing her parents and sister too, remember she posted their full names in that whole doxxing post too. At least with Alix you could argue Ursula did it so she wouldn't just get away with it consequence free (doesn't make it right but at least it's somewhat understandeble) but damn leave innocent people out of it please!
I WAS THERE..... I was deep in Hamilton fandom, and Hamilton RPF was a pretty small fandom circle.
I remember Ursula set up and co-modded a fandom charity fic auction that I took part in, and people who bought a fic were allowed to chose what charity they donated to, but Ursula had a list of restrictions on what charities you could donate to, including that you couldn't choose one that benefitted animals rather than people. That's what they were like - extremely passionate about entirely valid moral principles, in a way that invited totally unnecessary wank, and whenever someone picked a dumb fight, Ursula would come out swinging. They could've just specified a small list of charities the auction focused on and probably nobody would've had a problem!
Their fic was absolutely for a niche audience (people who wanted to read and write fiction about the original Broadway cast of the musical Hamilton having sex with each other), but it was good. The longfic where Lin-Manuel Miranda fucks the ghost of Alexander Hamilton? Genuinely extremely compelling. They would write a fic where it seemed like a normal romance but something was just a little off, and then BAM, Jonathan Groff is a chupacabra. And you're there like goddammit, I knew something had to be coming, but you got me! So partially it was like yeah, we're in on the joke, but also their writing had an edge to it.
What a time.
"BAM, Jonathan Groff is a chupacabra" is definitely not a sentence i thought i would read today! i was also deep in the 2016ish hamilton fandom and i legitimately remember reading the lmm x ghost hamilton fic so i CANT BELIEVE i somehow never made the connection between that fic and this whole saga (despite supernatural hamilton rpf being a specific enough genre that i prooobably should have put it together). that really was a time 😭
Bruh why did Ursula hate charities for animals so much, they're living beings too
this whole comment punched me in the gut
@@sophitiaofhyrule
Who says she “hates” them?
What hivliving did is fucked up and I’m sure hurt real people but I have to disagree with the user that said the situation is not at all funny. That apology being in the Hamilton tag is f*cking hilarious.
Revisiting this now that I exist outside pro/anti-ship talk I cannot help but feel like Ursula was less interested in getting Alix to admit what was wrong and more interested in some kind of fandom justice. The chatlogs really rub me wrong.
Alix is disgusting, sure, but like. Girl you need to touch grass too
oh most definitely. like. girl log off
At BEST Ursula started off or had good intentions in there *as well* but this obviously wasn't just about the Justice of it all or 1) they wouldn't have DOXXED HER AFTER PROMISING NOT TO, for all the good it did 2) they wouldn't have been enjoying it so much lol like be serious bestie you were SO happy you finally got to take one of the Fandom Morality Police who'd attacked you down a peg