*Chapters* 00:00 An Independence thing 02:17 Does Ethanol make sense 06:31 Biomass based 'CNG' 09:30 Electric vehicles 16:30 Better laws needed 19:12 Transitions hurt 24:40 Global warming 25:35 Hybrids Part I 26:18 Old vs new solutions 28:08 Battery recycling 28:48 Age of innovation 33:37 Innovation infrastructure 35:05 Continuity of governance 40:09 Carbon credits 41:04 Eggs and baskets 45:00 Do stuff, make a move 46:30 Electrics are better 49:36 Disruption's coming 50:00 More CNG two-wheelers 53:11 Nuclear diamond batteries 54:21 Diesel's done 55:41 Closing comments *Explore MotorInc memberships* at youtube.com/@motorinc/join
Extremely mature conversation backed by a very solid knowledge base. One expects nothing less from you guys, but I still felt the need to say it. This is a conversation "petrolheads" (or personal mobility enthusiasts more generally) around the world could/should listen to. Since so much of this is about "prediction". And how well you guys understand and explain the idea that to understand the future best, you must look to the past, I'd like to add 2 things: 1. Taleb's "Black Swan" is another you can add to the reading list (don't know if it's eventually recommended, typing this at 49 minutes in) 2. Throughout, I am reminded of one of my favourite quotes: "History seldom repeats itself, but it does rhyme".
Perfect an episode after the Bajaj CNG first. So much insight and even more food for thought. This is also like a tangential episode to the season 1 EV episode. I love this.
I am working for MNC for ethanol production we have capacity of 300 KLPD and we are using both sugar-based as well and corn but as the sugarcane-based feedstocks sugar syrup is banned for ethanol production so right now we use heavy and c molasses for 155 days and grain-based feedstocks such as corn (mainly) and broken rice again rice is banned by FCI so right now only corn is the option for ethanol production which we run for 175 days as we guys rightly discussed just wanted to for the discussion sugarcane is a seasonal crop and depending upon sugar factory capacity and distillery capacity we can utilize sugar based FS for max 150 days rest of the year grain based feedstocks are the only option. And as for the water consumption perspective if farmers move towards mirco-irrigation we can save upto 40% of water
54:30 My "Fuel of the past" car (Figo Diesel) is roughly the same age and size of Karthik's Ignis. It cost me the same as a WagonR in 2019 but it is faster than most sub 20 lakh cars, does less CO2/km than most modern Petrol cars. Went to Ladakh and came back without a hitch. And it still cranks in 1 go because it is rated for B7 (7% Biodiesel) a number which has still not been hit. I think I did pretty well when I chose 😊
A funny thing about bus converting to electric… they did this few years back in pune and it was all goody goody. However, the bus charging stations were powered by diesel generators! Irony jumped in front of that pmpl bus 🙈
Electric Vehicles are definitely coming no matter how much hybrids, hydrogens are promoted. EVs are just one battery breakthrough away from total domination. Samsung's 1000km SS with 9min charge battery is just the beginning
Very stimulating conversation! Usually when I see an hour long podcast, I assume it's going to have a lot of fluff. But when it comes to Shumi, the depth of his knowledge and crispness of his points makes it so watchable. I work in decarbonization and energy transition and wouldn't disagree with more than 95% of what he has said
I love this conversation. Really cherish the digressions. Every once in a while you guys should need to do podcast episodes where the boys(and maybe also the rest of the crew) just sit down and chat.
Hi MotorInc i love your content the way the two of you have a very casual conversation while being very informative , the slight conflicting mentality of both creates more eagerness to listen , kudos to all of you i have a request please do a segment or a video on wheather to buy new sports bike or a old one and how much would be difference in the riding experience between the two and the maintaining cost ✌✌
Hi @animeshchoubey1331! Thank you for joining this one. Regarding your request, we've touched upon this in Season 01. Check it out here: ruclips.net/video/42L3E37SYNM/видео.htmlsi=p4PudlUmihIGeaHU
Some perspective on Ethanol: Ethanol is not a green fuel of choice but rather a strategic bet to counter import of hydrocarbons and secondly (and less talked about) to solve for the surplus sugar production in the country (which is the case for almost every staple foodgrain production). Ethanol takes the load out of the government to procure and maintain fair market prices for farmers by creating a synthetic demand and a fair remuneration model for farmers (governemnt regulated price for procurement of sugar and ethanol) by way of routing surplus to OMCs and sugar producing companies and in turn routing liquidity back to the agricultural sector. So in a way you are routing foreign reserves spent on crude oil to a local sector in distress. Also ethanol production goes beyond just using sugarcane as source (1g ethanol) but also venturing into using agri waste and residue as a source (2g ethanol). Incremental production gains are and will be met by 2g ethanol (which in a way also solves for stubble burning..). Also ethanol needs to be seen beyond just E20 fuel and in innovations like Compressed Bio Gas and Sustainable Aviation Fuel. Imo ethanol can't really be put under the green fuel (E20) basket because any net emissions gains (if any) will be offset by its affect on engine performace and milege (although there are some research materials on how a higher blending factor increases the thermal efficiency of the engine). Also the entire discusion on the choice of fuels becomes a lot more crucial when viewed against the CAFE norms in the industry. Having said that not really sure how stringent will be its enforcement.
Dear Shumi and Kartikeya, for the last 2-3 videos I have been trying to figure out the books mentioned by y’all. But been unsuccessful,can you please mention the book titles which you refer to on the comments or descriptions going forward by any chance? Many thanks
I love this channel. As someone who is building a "Potential Disruption" in the EV space, I constantly have to battel with VCs, fellow entrepreneurs and a lot of riders, that one fuel, one silver bullet doesn't exist, and the future will be a co-existence of a lot of technologies and people will decide what "They need". Talking just about the two-wheeler, it's a 300B USD market in India which is going through energy transition. It's really fun and interesting to see likeminded people talk about this transition. We don't know what's the future holds, I may be in the 99 that fails, but that is the PROCESS. meanwhile all we need to do is "Chill" :)
Also, I'm still so pissed about nuclear. We have such a good alternative energy source that is relatively clean, scalable and usable. Only issue that comes out is waste (which also might get fixed, saw some research on reusing nuclear waste to get back Uranium from it). Safety has largely been solved. But the hurdle that stops it is public perception. There was a ship called the NS Savannah which was nuclear and was so much better than traditional ships. And there are some icebreaker ships running in the Arctic by the Russians. What killed them was public perception. I'm imagining a perfect solution with nuclear once that gets the oppurtunity to mature.
Schumi's worst nightmare is when he has to wake up and review a KTM CNG! 😋🤭. But, in all seriousness, a very engaging, informative discussion. A lot of food for thought. Karthikeya makes such a valid point when he mentions about his Ignis taking two cranks to start up. There are so many millions of vehicles across India, of all ages, that will slowly begin to show issues and it is going to be expensive and time-consuming to retrofit older vehicles to be compatible. A small crisis bubbling or nothing to worry about?
Awesome Podcast 🙌. One thing I’ll like to add about Carbon Credits is that the companies purchase those carbon credits earned by other company to reduce the emissions. So the company A who purchased the credits from company B for the good work of company B will be transferred in the name of Company A
This topic did come up before in another video, couple years back.....however, watching this updated video shed so much light on the reality of Automotive Journalism. Such a clear picture! Thanks so much both of you. P.S: Really loved the journey both of you have been on. 🎉
Some major misses: 1. Euro 6 petrol already is 95 octane. Indian cars to suit indian fuel run on drastically reduced compression ratios. To expect similar co2 emissions is a travesty! And is only hurting indian consumers for now. 2. Oil extraction, till a few years ago was the largest cobalt consumer. offshore oil (or all crude) is extracted from an average of 9500 feet below, and if lithium mining I scaring Karthik, I believe he should read up on oil spills. Al least the exon Valdez and BP Deepwater! I really believe the electrics are being demonized far too much while crude and ethanol are getting a free pass. Refining again, worries Australians, they are getting rid of it, while being the Frontline lithium producers. Must know , all of your oil is boiled to 900 degrees to refine, and only a portion of it used, while we have to sadhaaao the mineral oil and pet coke left behind. They are the actual polluters. 3. Diesel, well. Your car used fuels in grams, even at same price diesel would still be 17% cheaper. And then it is always far more efficient 4. Ethanol I can't even begin to explain how horrible that is. Biofuels are beyond stupid. India is the largest edible oil importer and to save up on crude bill we are going in for ethanol. 24 lakh tonnes of RICE so far has been turned to ethanol. It takes5000 liters of water to get kilo of rice. A fraction of it after processing and distilling/boiling etc is turned to ethanol. While that water was extracted using lignite, not coal, but lignite power. I can't even handle this, whatever this is.
21:00 Kartik please also discuss the emisisons needed to produce, refine and transport petrol/diesel to the consumers. Also I'd like to point out that EV batteries are completely recyclable and have second life uses in stationary storage after being used in vehicles. Petrol/diesel cant be recyclable and has terrible efficiency compared to any battery operated vehicles. As the problem of global warming becomes more and more serious in our lifetimes the faster we switch to battery operated transportation is the better. It reduces the pollution from our cities and is cost effective as well.
6:58 > you look at hydrogen for instance hydren the entire argument is is hydrogen efficient it depends on whether you've used green energy to First make hydrogen efficiency is a misnomer here, rather it should be emissions per unit fuel, efficiency of H2 remains same whether you use coal power for doing electrolyis or you use solar/wind Water will need 50kWh electricity for electrolysis to make 1kg hydrogen irrespective of the power source. What you maybe referring to is different colours of H2 not made by electrolysis rather by methane reformation (grey) in which case it is by product of existing refinery processes, which is why most petroleum companies seem more interested in h2 as it allows them to use existing refineries to push a “green” fuel made from methane reformation (CO2 intensive process) 9:46 > because and we've always said this EVS will make sense when you are using it all the time when you max out the usage of EVS is when you get the max return on investment because you're spending so much on the batteries in the first place In most states, the OTR price of EV and ICE model of same car model and trim has very little difference now ( it make sense for trucks where as it is they're carrying very heavy loads for that size it won't make as much sense for trucks it maybe better to opt for H2 as trucks also have fixed locations like truck stops and rail depots, harbours etc which can setup h2 stations (even better if the trains and ships already use H2 so the trucks can use the same pump) without need for every petrol pump to offer H2. Further in cars and bikes there is just not enough space to store h2 for meaningful range. Mirai compromises heavily on the boot and legroom, just to match the 400mi EPA range of the Model S which I feel toyota engineering took personally “WE WILL NOT LOSE TO TESLA” and threw practicality out of the window with mirai just to match the range estimate. For the smaller cars sold in india, it makes even less sense to go H2 for cars. 12:56 > Fame yeah which was for electrification yeah for Electric Mobility why should that not be there for the other forms of new engine types that are going to be needed for vehicles which will need new types of fuel to run 100% it should 100% be there whether it's CG whether it's Flex Fuel because all of those are driving costs up yeah all of those will Drive costs up especially when we talk about flex fuel vehicles which just will be a lot more complex and there will be a penalty for the user as well I I think it is slightly in the name itself : FAME Faster Adoption and Manufacturing of Electric (Vehicles) So it is to be expected that the scheme was aimed at electric transition itself from day 1 of its inception. In fact under FAME 1 hybrids used to get subsidy just like EVs but Maruti squandered that subsidy quota by selling nano femto hybrid (SHVS) theicct.org/sites/default/files/publications/India-hybrid-and-EV-incentives_working-paper_ICCT_27122016.pdf Page 2 btw (A shame that govt document is so badly written and uploaded on some obscure site that I have to post the pdf of the document from ICCT who have better access, formatting and readability) If anyone, then not govt, Maruti is to blame for wasting the quota on their fake hybrid instead of actual hybrids being sold now. The current scenario is even footing for both EVs and Hybrids. EV subsidy quota also expired in March 2023 for ITR rebate of 1.5L and states like delhi ncr also exhausted the quota within 1 year of the subsidy going online (2020-2021) It is expected that FAME 3 will purely focus on charging infra and commercial vehicles only which is a good move, at this point charging infra and awareness about the same would be better nudge for adoption than lower costs (something which has already been reduced to quite an extent through recent EV price cuts) 20:43 > is one thing like see I love EVS from the standpoint of Driving Experience that's it's fun it's great it's and we've I will continue to say that today they're are lifestyle Choice they're not an environment choice because if you just do a basic Google search about the kind of mining that's happening I would not say a “google” search alone is enough, I would not treat anything below peer reviewed journals or reports as reliable due to the lobbying efforts of oil companies. They already did it once in 90s for the GM EV1, ie massive disinformation campaigns to save the service industry and profits of oil industry. I would recommend ICCT resources, the same which uncovered dieselgate. Links in separate comment for visibility. > to get um lithium and Cobalt and all for these batteries it's scary it's freaky I mean yeah yeah and and I think also you have to remember that petrol as devastating as you think it is diesel as devastating as you think it is is a very Advanced system of extraction today which is far less wasteful than where it began Not to say that lithium mining is all rainbow and unicorns, but here we are comparing a process done ONCE for EV (battery production) to a RECURRING process of oil extraction, refining and transport. In fact even today, using by above example only of googling, you can openly find emissions impact of EV battery mining in terms of a particular X number in kgCO2 per kWh battery. However, try the same for oil and you would get convoluted answers as to how it is too complicated and how it is a trade secret (actually happened to me when looking up cobalt usage in desulphurisation of crude oil) It is apparent who is not afraid to show the data and who is hiding it, not even for the first time. Even today it comes to light how the methane flaring from oil rigs and refineries is not fully burning the methane and letting 70% more of it into the atmosphere than initially reported by oil companies. Via IEA in separate comment.
Hey guys! Slightly off topic, but I had a couple of questions some weeks back on visibility in the Baleno and how to better judge the corners. And you guys gave some superb advice. I took them, implemented it and also drove more following that advice and now am much more confident compared to just 5 to 6 weeks back. I'd like to thank y'all for that brilliant advice. Also, I want to ask, how to improve further? I want to learn to rev match shift and heel-toe downshift, that's one of the main things I wanted to learn and that's mainly why I chose manual. Can you tell me how do I do that? How do I do that in the Baleno? I do it on my motorcycle and am familiar with the concept, but haven't been able to do it well on the car. Any tips you guys can share on this?
For environmental protection, the govt should bring stringent laws for vehicle longevity and right to repair. Spare parts should be available in the open market from all manufacturers( I am looking at you Honda). Also this flex fuel is basically adulterated petrol so if anything, petrol prices should reduce significantly, it should not be sold at the same price as pure petrol. There should be option to retrofit engines to be compatible with e20 or e30 or whatever. Vehicles should comply with emission norms, not age. If age is the deciding factor then we should start by throwing out the old farts out from the parliament. Nuclear diamond EVs are just bad idea because many people don't/can't maintain the petrol vehicles properly. Then you will have to evacuate an entire block one morning because someone failed to maintain their vehicle properly and threw around radioactive elements everywhere. Most of the users are not responsible enough to maintain miniature nuclear reactor in our cars. Also about comparing the horsepowers between EV and ICE, I recently learned a horse makes around 15 horsepowers, don't know how to feel about that. Great podcast as always guys.
> Vehicles should comply with emission norms, not age. The countries like USA charge almost 100-200$ for certifying vehicles every year, we have pucc but those ppl dont even insert the device and give report, how many cars you really think are polluting as rated? Will people pay so much for annual fitness checks? leave that, arai mileage is known to be overestimated however the main issue is that mileage itself is calculated as by product of emissions which means even the ARAI tested emissions are underreported to begin with when the car is sold itself > If age is the deciding factor then we should start by throwing out the old farts out from the parliament. absolutely, the fact that 70-80yo boomers are deciding policy for next decade when they aren't even sure of completing their 5y term alive
People who have cars are already paying through their noses for road tax, toll tax, petrol tax. So don't underestimate then for paying for a stringent pollution test. However the bit you said about testers not putting sensors in exhaust i.e. basically cheating the system is right but cheating also happens when issuing licenses too.
Thanks for the shout-out to Indore! It’s always awesome to see my hometown mentioned. Really enjoyed the video and appreciate the great content-keep up the amazing work!
Riding the Ather 450 really changed my mindset on EV scooters. The torque felt effortless regardless of pillion. The modes do work. The Warp mode really pulls sharp and fast. Looking forward to more such exciting EVs. Thinking about multiple fuel choices apart from Petrol, Diesel also sounds exciting🎉 Great discussion as usual. Shumi being brutally confident and dark really got me to pause whatever I was doing and listen again.😂
21:50 another aspect I want to point out is that people disregarded human life in general for greater technological and scientific progress. We had 9 year Olds employed as factory chimney cleaners back then, we added lead in petrol before we discovered it was a bad thing. The engineering around petrol and diesel were made reliable upon the backs of these sacrifices we made as species. With the progress we've made on human rights I think it will be a far greater challenge to transition in the span it took us to adopt our conventional sources of energy without throwing people under the bus in the name of progress
We have learned a thing or two from the last transition and it would be less prudent of us to avoid as many mistakes as we possibly can @johnkodamala6149. But yes, transition of any kind, isn't gonna come easy.
Long wait for a podcast on this topic, thanks… it filled in most of the blanks. There’s lot of noises in the internet to bias or grow fear upon one’s choice based on fuel options, those are quite polluting nowadays. Glad that this podcast detoxed it. My favorites are biomass based CNG, transition hurts, age of innovation, innovation infrastructure and eggs and baskets; as it conforms that good things are happening. Yap… with Bugatti’s examples… I was recently following velomobile stuff. Hope to see a podcast on such weird or “utpatang” type mobility 😉
You and I have same mindset towards EVs nd other stuff .. But I was not clear to justify my answer. But your video 💯 😂 I'm going to tag this video to Mr. *Nitin* *Gadkari*
OEMs like tata hyundai have actually opposed favorable laws for Hybrid cars for the long time. This leads to siam opposing lower taxes and subsidies for hybrid.
Packed with a lot of thought provoking aspects which are being overlooked right now in terms of alternative fuels. I loved the conversation for they way things were discussed in a macro perspective even though Shumi went 'dark' a few times and I am with him on that.
I think MotorInc should check the numbers for pollution due to EV. Engineering Explained has a brilliant video on this with Nissan leaf as a example. Please do check the numbers ,it might mislead the veiwers
As a climate entrepreneur, just want to point out @Shumi that there is conclusive research now that shows the current climate calamity would not be happening if human activity wasn't there. Happy to share much more context
You should say "Thisconnect" without countdown and while facing the camera. The struggle would be something to look forward to at the end of the each episode.
i reallly dont know well this solution is like i am no economist nor am i highly educated person I am just a student who is just finishing his graduation this March but the thing we miss the most in EVs is the quick just fill and go option as available in petrol and diesel vehicles But what one can do is make more and more removable batteries and there are already EVs(Raft was one probably a chinese brand i guess) who have removable batteries just like what we did with petrol to make it available to everyone we extracted it a lot and then transported it to various places creating hubs and accessible to everyone everywhere by having these removable batteries what we can do is setup multiple ports and stations where one can just come give his existing battery to charge and have the charged battery installed again and go just the Quick Easy Fill and Go option but with EVs i know the idea seems immature and idk how viable it will be to the country but just like TYPE C charging port which is a uniform thing in almost all new gen mobiles what we are able to do is charge any phone with any charger as all are type C this same uniformication can be done by the govt for all the battery types for EVs to be made in same type same design which can fit any E-vehicle yes we can design vehicles depending on performance and size of battery it needs but thats just the further extension just think it like this M size batteries for all 125cc to 200cc vehicles L sized for above 200cc and so on I dont think storage is that much big of a problem , we already figured a way to store petrol which is liquid also dont we replace batteries on a regular basis in our Ac and Tv remotes etc it will work kinda like that and then also I agree using a full petrol bike in future will be a luxury kinda thing just like Horse Riding has become now I am Open to all opinions Lets Discuss what others think
Hey CK! Absolutely happy to have you spark this discussion. Swappable batteries are coming to India too. Should help improve usability and battery utilisation.
Guys please make a podcast on "how we will drive tomorrow" will we really own vehicles decade down the line? What's the benefit of collecting all the data at the moment? Will we be just passengers after some time? Work live to hear you both on this!
We have kinda touched upon this already Akshay. We think that down the line we'll all just be passengers inside the car. We mostly won't have to own one too. Shumi's pessimistic about motorcycles in this future and Kartikeya has valiantly said that he'll fight to keep riding motorcycles. Guess we're gonna have to wait and see what happens. 😅
Hey motorinc, i am interested in the NS200 because it's the only liquid cooled 6 gear bike in that budget. other alternatives aren't fast enough or lack smtn like 5th gear or liquid cooling. Anything over that budget just gets defeated by the NS400z but i can't afford a 400cc bike's fuel costs. Should i go for the NS 200 then? i want a sporty affordable good corner Loving bike. im asking you this because the pulsar is so old but i still think it's the best at its price.
Great insightful content as usual no complains there, but where is the upcoming episode topic play between you two? I loved that part at the end when you guys just play some back n forth after a great conversion really missed it.
A little off topic, Shumi mentioned that we Indians always have thought and taught that rear break on a motorcycle is more important and should be used more, and I agree to Shumi because thats what I had heard until I figured out after buying my first bike. But a question for you Shumi sir, you had mentioned in one of the This connect ep as well that you hardly touch rear break in the city, whats the correct way? Should we totally depend on our front strong brakes?
Yes, @omcarrides, you should stick to using the front brakes most of the times. The exceptions are when your speeds are very high and the front brake alone isn't enough to bring the motorcycle to a stop on time. Or, if you have greater load in the pillion than at the front.
If nuclear vehicles ever get made, we would have the water problem though. The nuclear energy heats water, which spins the turbine, which generates electricity...
Spot on about following the money! How ‘green’ electric cars are is a growing debate now….the cost one pays in terms of mining minerals for batteries to damage in disposing old ones. Seen intercity electric buses being charged using diesel gensets….I think it’s largely about economics and optics.
the valuable distinction here is that battery production is one time emission, and disposal is not happening in first place because the batteries are outlasting the mfg expectations. For oil extraction and refining, it is lifetime emissions for that car. Every drop has to extracted, refined and transported, for it to finally reach the pump, just like battery, the fuel in the tank has already polluted before being filled and burnt.
I feel Diesels can't get very expensive beyond the level they are today, because of commercial vehicles. Any more price hikes, and prices of everyday goods will go through roof. Almost all trucks (at least around Maharashtra or South) have Diesels and it won't make a business sense to run them if more price hikes are introduced. Plus, Turbo petrols fuel efficiency is soo bad, at times you feel punished for getting that performance or power. You realistically only use it 5 or 10% of the driving time. Diesels won't make you feel bad about the power (or guity). Great fuel efficiency, not so great price gap and all discouraging or punishing is already done (it seems!) to say the least. So I guess Diesel will still make sense.. if you could have pre BS6 diesel vehicle without AdBlue problem
Commercial vehicle tax slabs are different from the pvt ones, the real cost of the diesel is not in the price of purchase as much as the headaches of dpf and adblue that come with it. EUROVII & BS7 is hanging guillotine on even petrols, let alone diesel, the costs to bring it upto the new emissions norms are going to be back breaking
@@shresthsonkar9207 I'm saying, price hikes of fuel (not vehicle). It's already at 90 something vs Petrol at 105. Any more hike and it will hamper the everyday goods cost. And I'm not advocating to buy new Diesel with AdBlue headache. But if you already have pre 2019 diesel, or buy one in resale around that time.. it still makes sense to run that vehicle till you are forced to not renew the registration (after 15 years).
@@motorinc And thanks for reply. I did not expect that. You guys are truly amazing. Hope you will be same when you become super huge. And I really appreciate that you did not mince your words & give thoughtful criticism with as thoughtful solutions.
The telecom reforms, which were initiated by CHANDRA BABU NAIDU (atal ji times) in 90's is the best example of policy reforms. which we're benefitting now! VISION is what need for the Indian politicians!
What are your thoughts on converting petrol 2 wheelers to electric ( basically hybrid) from the Bangalore startup companies like Green Tiger etc who also takes care of the RTO clearance and ARAI certification too. Basically a true hybrid. Please shed some light
Change is the only thing that’s constant!! Like how Fuel injectors was made mandatory it’s just the time factor now to know what’s next!! But for sure as a personal matter I think I will miss the ICE when this happens!!
Hi Karthik, it’s called the Pantograph. But this was a great discussion. How does one decide on what to upgrade? Do we still go for ICE vehicles, especially Diesel? Also, what’s the next topic? You didn’t reveal that or is that a surprise as well? 😂 One suggestion is if you could discuss the state of car / bike brands in India like Toyota, VW twins, Honda etc. and their future plans?
I had purchased a Nissan Magnite CVT last year (2023) despite warnings from my relatives about Nissan's future in India. My original idea 5 years ago (when Nexon EV was launched) was to just by an EV whenever I was ready for buying a car. But the time came for me to buy a car last year and still I had no viable EVs at reasonable prices. Even if I offset the cost of fuel, I'd have to run almost 2 lakh KM just to offset the upfront cost of EVs against an equivalent Petrol Car! And to add to that, I'd compromise on range and charging infrastructure which is still not reasonably good enough for regular commuters. So I decided to buy the least expensive petrol automatic (a proper automatic and not an AMT), that allowed me the range and mobility at a decent price. And Magnite was the clear choice. If I am able to keep it for about 7 years (till 2030) I'm hoping I'll have better options by then. But even that looks bleak now! Why aren't there decent options still in 2024? How has the EV progress slowed down so much in just 5 years! I'm now questioning if EVs will ever reach price parity (for like to like features) with Petrol Cars ever! I was reading news about EVs taking over in less than a decade in 2018 and 2019 every other day. Now, I don't see any news awesome EV technology at all. Is it really that difficult to democratize EV tech? Even a very expensive EV (about 30 laksh) is very handicapped with it's range and non-standardized charging infrastructure. (The new crop of Chinese EVs might probably change this). When the time for my next car comes, I sincerely hope I'll have better options than I had in 2023.
Lol that example of a new eco friendly house where you can only go to the loo once a day cracked me up more than it should. EVs do seem like that new house with limited range and slow and finicky charging infra.
During 18-19th Peanut Oil was used in vechiles and gave a really good mileage aswell. We can explore many options. But the idea of Nuclear fision as a fuel is not so far, people are working on it. One of the example of this is NASA - Project Orion. Great Fun Podcast. Also Voyager 1 can be a great study that can be taken up for future fueling alternatives, OR REMs
Question to Motorinc. Can you disconnect battery in a Hybrid vehichle. Say engine life is 15 years and my battery life is 7 years. I dont want to replace the battery but still drive my vehicle. Since the battery just gives assistance and the majority of work is done by ICE, is there a technological solution or either a jugaad to disconnect it..??
Since we're talking about a movement here at motorinc. Can we discuss some modern automobile features that are absolutely ridiculous like lightbar taillights (cheap way of getting out of designing a proper taillights) or indicator and taillights integrated into one for the same reason. Hidden exhaust pipes (is it just me who likes a visible exhaust?). Piano black interiors (absolute scratch dirt and finger print magnet). Headlights positioned near fog lights (looking at you hyundai).
I'm sincerely hoping RNG / CBG is the silver bullet we need. Technically, it should be able to take most types of biomass. Biggest problem with Natural Gas is storage, by the way, Methane (the largest constituent of natural gas) can be converted to Ethanol pretty easily. I'm not sure about economies of scale but this would basically mean ICEs forever! Also, CNG can be used in tandem with fuel cell and motor. Even though Hydrogen is a lot of power per kg, it's significantly harder to store. Curious which solution will eventually manage economy of scale.
when we say CH4 to C2H5OH easily, it probably involves multiple chemical reactions which involves heating to 1500ºC in presence of catalyst to make acetylene C2H2, then it must be treated with H2SO4 to make ethanol, usage of high temperatures and acids means it will be costly and heat must come from somewhere, which basically means burning something else to generate the heat
Aeroplane burns approx Rs 3-4 Lakh fuel for 1 journey from Mumbai to Delhi. That's the amount of money I spend on petrol for 6-7 yrs. And we talk about the scarcity of fuel.... 😊 I believe our earth has enough fuel for at least 500 yrs for sure.
Shumi & Kartikeya can we have a small conversation about Solid State Batteries. They seem really promising. They're lighter, degrade slower and have higher power density than Li-ion. Discovered them in the Yoshino Powerbank. Great conversation like always
I like the addition of the new colors in the background as a viewer. Keep mixing up with colors and more Mkbhd is one creator who keeps doing really minimal but subtle changes every now and then
*Chapters*
00:00 An Independence thing
02:17 Does Ethanol make sense
06:31 Biomass based 'CNG'
09:30 Electric vehicles
16:30 Better laws needed
19:12 Transitions hurt
24:40 Global warming
25:35 Hybrids Part I
26:18 Old vs new solutions
28:08 Battery recycling
28:48 Age of innovation
33:37 Innovation infrastructure
35:05 Continuity of governance
40:09 Carbon credits
41:04 Eggs and baskets
45:00 Do stuff, make a move
46:30 Electrics are better
49:36 Disruption's coming
50:00 More CNG two-wheelers
53:11 Nuclear diamond batteries
54:21 Diesel's done
55:41 Closing comments
*Explore MotorInc memberships* at youtube.com/@motorinc/join
Don’t let Shumi near Infinity Gauntlet. He will snap without a thought 😂
😆
i have the same thoughts as him and I agree to him more or less
He might snap twice.
haha
@@madotra27 it cuts world population in half, so even snapping once leaves 4billion but snapping twice still leaves 2billion
How we'll drive tomorrow.
In the same crappy manner, without manners
Nice tangent! 😁
Extremely mature conversation backed by a very solid knowledge base. One expects nothing less from you guys, but I still felt the need to say it. This is a conversation "petrolheads" (or personal mobility enthusiasts more generally) around the world could/should listen to.
Since so much of this is about "prediction". And how well you guys understand and explain the idea that to understand the future best, you must look to the past, I'd like to add 2 things:
1. Taleb's "Black Swan" is another you can add to the reading list (don't know if it's eventually recommended, typing this at 49 minutes in)
2. Throughout, I am reminded of one of my favourite quotes: "History seldom repeats itself, but it does rhyme".
Thank you for the suggestions @MuditBadlani. And for joining us today!😊
Perfect an episode after the Bajaj CNG first. So much insight and even more food for thought.
This is also like a tangential episode to the season 1 EV episode. I love this.
Thank you for joining us @agamsingh4209!
Great episode!
Now, this has become a Saturday routine. Grabbing a coffee, relaxing on the couch, and watching Motorinc ThisConnect.
We may be biased but that sounds wonderful @imahadevan98!😅
When automotive journalists discuss policy better than the government. 😮
🙏🏾
I am working for MNC for ethanol production we have capacity of 300 KLPD and we are using both sugar-based as well and corn but as the sugarcane-based feedstocks sugar syrup is banned for ethanol production so right now we use heavy and c molasses for 155 days and grain-based feedstocks such as corn (mainly) and broken rice again rice is banned by FCI so right now only corn is the option for ethanol production which we run for 175 days as we guys rightly discussed just wanted to for the discussion sugarcane is a seasonal crop and depending upon sugar factory capacity and distillery capacity we can utilize sugar based FS for max 150 days rest of the year grain based feedstocks are the only option. And as for the water consumption perspective if farmers move towards mirco-irrigation we can save upto 40% of water
Good god never have I ever imagined KLPD used in this context
@@trilokyamohanchakra6351 kilo liters per day
@@trilokyamohanchakra6351 lmao
Thank you for sharing @pushparaj3908.
Just noticed the cool Motorinc wallpaper on Shumi’s watch!😮
54:30
My "Fuel of the past" car (Figo Diesel) is roughly the same age and size of Karthik's Ignis.
It cost me the same as a WagonR in 2019 but it is faster than most sub 20 lakh cars, does less CO2/km than most modern Petrol cars. Went to Ladakh and came back without a hitch.
And it still cranks in 1 go because it is rated for B7 (7% Biodiesel) a number which has still not been hit.
I think I did pretty well when I chose 😊
Lucky you! And hugs to your ride too!
My 1st Members Only Video Ever - Yeah - Looking forward to more
Wonderful to have you @mohs1nsha1kh! What did you think of the episode?
@@motorinc The topic was interesting and i found it insightful
@@kishanskp it was. Early access
We need a video on Shumi's book collection!
Noted!
A funny thing about bus converting to electric… they did this few years back in pune and it was all goody goody. However, the bus charging stations were powered by diesel generators! Irony jumped in front of that pmpl bus 🙈
😆
Electric Vehicles are definitely coming no matter how much hybrids, hydrogens are promoted. EVs are just one battery breakthrough away from total domination. Samsung's 1000km SS with 9min charge battery is just the beginning
Electrification is the way. That is clear. Which solution will works for whom? That is not clear.
That's a one BIG breakthrough. Problem is the world doesn't have any Einsteins.
hydrogen will blow electrical out of the park ,if we keep following rules of physics as they exist now
Very stimulating conversation! Usually when I see an hour long podcast, I assume it's going to have a lot of fluff. But when it comes to Shumi, the depth of his knowledge and crispness of his points makes it so watchable. I work in decarbonization and energy transition and wouldn't disagree with more than 95% of what he has said
Thank you for joining us @YashvardhanVerma.
I've been sick for the past few days. And naturally that means I'm binging motorinc at home.
Glad to keep you company @therealanbhv! What did you think of this episode?
I love this conversation. Really cherish the digressions.
Every once in a while you guys should need to do podcast episodes where the boys(and maybe also the rest of the crew) just sit down and chat.
Haha sounds relaxed for sure @leakedzebra! Thanks for the suggestion.
Hi MotorInc i love your content the way the two of you have a very casual conversation while being very informative , the slight conflicting mentality of both creates more eagerness to listen , kudos to all of you
i have a request please do a segment or a video on wheather to buy new sports bike or a old one and how much would be difference in the riding experience between the two and the maintaining cost
✌✌
Hi @animeshchoubey1331! Thank you for joining this one. Regarding your request, we've touched upon this in Season 01. Check it out here: ruclips.net/video/42L3E37SYNM/видео.htmlsi=p4PudlUmihIGeaHU
Oh thanks
Completely irrelevant question but when can we watch the MotorInc first video of the Guerilla 450?😃😃
Stay tuned @tharun72!
@@motorinc alright😃😍
Some perspective on Ethanol:
Ethanol is not a green fuel of choice but rather a strategic bet to counter import of hydrocarbons and secondly (and less talked about) to solve for the surplus sugar production in the country (which is the case for almost every staple foodgrain production). Ethanol takes the load out of the government to procure and maintain fair market prices for farmers by creating a synthetic demand and a fair remuneration model for farmers (governemnt regulated price for procurement of sugar and ethanol) by way of routing surplus to OMCs and sugar producing companies and in turn routing liquidity back to the agricultural sector. So in a way you are routing foreign reserves spent on crude oil to a local sector in distress.
Also ethanol production goes beyond just using sugarcane as source (1g ethanol) but also venturing into using agri waste and residue as a source (2g ethanol). Incremental production gains are and will be met by 2g ethanol (which in a way also solves for stubble burning..). Also ethanol needs to be seen beyond just E20 fuel and in innovations like Compressed Bio Gas and Sustainable Aviation Fuel.
Imo ethanol can't really be put under the green fuel (E20) basket because any net emissions gains (if any) will be offset by its affect on engine performace and milege (although there are some research materials on how a higher blending factor increases the thermal efficiency of the engine).
Also the entire discusion on the choice of fuels becomes a lot more crucial when viewed against the CAFE norms in the industry. Having said that not really sure how stringent will be its enforcement.
Hey RP, thanks for taking time to share your perspective. Are you interested in this space too?
You guys deserve more subscribers 🤩🤩
Thank you @swayam1267!
Dear Shumi and Kartikeya, for the last 2-3 videos I have been trying to figure out the books mentioned by y’all. But been unsuccessful,can you please mention the book titles which you refer to on the comments or descriptions going forward by any chance?
Many thanks
Thank you for the suggestion @karthicknitish.
Government of India need to add you two in decision making committee. You are more thoughtful about average Indian than our Government.
I love this channel. As someone who is building a "Potential Disruption" in the EV space, I constantly have to battel with VCs, fellow entrepreneurs and a lot of riders, that one fuel, one silver bullet doesn't exist, and the future will be a co-existence of a lot of technologies and people will decide what "They need". Talking just about the two-wheeler, it's a 300B USD market in India which is going through energy transition. It's really fun and interesting to see likeminded people talk about this transition. We don't know what's the future holds, I may be in the 99 that fails, but that is the PROCESS. meanwhile all we need to do is "Chill" :)
All the best B!
Also, I'm still so pissed about nuclear. We have such a good alternative energy source that is relatively clean, scalable and usable. Only issue that comes out is waste (which also might get fixed, saw some research on reusing nuclear waste to get back Uranium from it). Safety has largely been solved. But the hurdle that stops it is public perception. There was a ship called the NS Savannah which was nuclear and was so much better than traditional ships. And there are some icebreaker ships running in the Arctic by the Russians. What killed them was public perception. I'm imagining a perfect solution with nuclear once that gets the oppurtunity to mature.
Schumi's worst nightmare is when he has to wake up and review a KTM CNG! 😋🤭. But, in all seriousness, a very engaging, informative discussion. A lot of food for thought. Karthikeya makes such a valid point when he mentions about his Ignis taking two cranks to start up. There are so many millions of vehicles across India, of all ages, that will slowly begin to show issues and it is going to be expensive and time-consuming to retrofit older vehicles to be compatible. A small crisis bubbling or nothing to worry about?
Awesome Podcast 🙌. One thing I’ll like to add about Carbon Credits is that the companies purchase those carbon credits earned by other company to reduce the emissions. So the company A who purchased the credits from company B for the good work of company B will be transferred in the name of Company A
This topic did come up before in another video, couple years back.....however, watching this updated video shed so much light on the reality of Automotive Journalism. Such a clear picture!
Thanks so much both of you.
P.S: Really loved the journey both of you have been on. 🎉
Some major misses:
1. Euro 6 petrol already is 95 octane. Indian cars to suit indian fuel run on drastically reduced compression ratios. To expect similar co2 emissions is a travesty! And is only hurting indian consumers for now.
2. Oil extraction, till a few years ago was the largest cobalt consumer. offshore oil (or all crude) is extracted from an average of 9500 feet below, and if lithium mining I scaring Karthik, I believe he should read up on oil spills. Al least the exon Valdez and BP Deepwater! I really believe the electrics are being demonized far too much while crude and ethanol are getting a free pass. Refining again, worries Australians, they are getting rid of it, while being the Frontline lithium producers. Must know , all of your oil is boiled to 900 degrees to refine, and only a portion of it used, while we have to sadhaaao the mineral oil and pet coke left behind. They are the actual polluters.
3. Diesel, well. Your car used fuels in grams, even at same price diesel would still be 17% cheaper. And then it is always far more efficient
4. Ethanol I can't even begin to explain how horrible that is. Biofuels are beyond stupid. India is the largest edible oil importer and to save up on crude bill we are going in for ethanol. 24 lakh tonnes of RICE so far has been turned to ethanol. It takes5000 liters of water to get kilo of rice. A fraction of it after processing and distilling/boiling etc is turned to ethanol. While that water was extracted using lignite, not coal, but lignite power.
I can't even handle this, whatever this is.
Breaaaatheee!! 😁
This conversation needs to happen with a representative of both automotive manufacturers and the Ministry of Road Transport.
👍🏽
21:00 Kartik please also discuss the emisisons needed to produce, refine and transport petrol/diesel to the consumers.
Also I'd like to point out that EV batteries are completely recyclable and have second life uses in stationary storage after being used in vehicles. Petrol/diesel cant be recyclable and has terrible efficiency compared to any battery operated vehicles.
As the problem of global warming becomes more and more serious in our lifetimes the faster we switch to battery operated transportation is the better. It reduces the pollution from our cities and is cost effective as well.
You understood the facts in reverse direction 😂
Hi Manjeet please look up mining for EVs. Electrification is the way ahead. But, not like this. Thanks!
@@motorinc Hydel Power, Wind Mills, Solar Energy etc but definitely not the Energy obtained either from burning Coal or burning Uranium 🙏
6:58
> you look at hydrogen for instance hydren the entire argument is is hydrogen efficient it depends on whether you've used green energy to First make hydrogen
efficiency is a misnomer here, rather it should be emissions per unit fuel, efficiency of H2 remains same whether you use coal power for doing electrolyis or you use solar/wind
Water will need 50kWh electricity for electrolysis to make 1kg hydrogen irrespective of the power source.
What you maybe referring to is different colours of H2 not made by electrolysis rather by methane reformation (grey) in which case it is by product of existing refinery processes, which is why most petroleum companies seem more interested in h2 as it allows them to use existing refineries to push a “green” fuel made from methane reformation (CO2 intensive process)
9:46
> because and we've always said this EVS will make sense when you are using it all the time when you max out the usage of EVS is when you get the max return on investment because you're spending so much on the batteries in the first place
In most states, the OTR price of EV and ICE model of same car model and trim has very little difference now ( it make sense for trucks where as it is they're carrying very heavy loads for that size it won't make as much sense
for trucks it maybe better to opt for H2 as trucks also have fixed locations like truck stops and rail depots, harbours etc which can setup h2 stations (even better if the trains and ships already use H2 so the trucks can use the same pump) without need for every petrol pump to offer H2.
Further in cars and bikes there is just not enough space to store h2 for meaningful range. Mirai compromises heavily on the boot and legroom, just to match the 400mi EPA range of the Model S which I feel toyota engineering took personally “WE WILL NOT LOSE TO TESLA” and threw practicality out of the window with mirai just to match the range estimate.
For the smaller cars sold in india, it makes even less sense to go H2 for cars.
12:56
> Fame yeah which was for electrification yeah for Electric Mobility why should that not be there for the other forms of new engine types that are going to be needed for vehicles which will need new types of fuel to run 100% it should 100% be there whether it's CG whether it's Flex Fuel because all of those are driving costs up yeah all of those will Drive costs up especially when we talk about flex fuel vehicles which just will be a lot more complex and there will be a penalty for the user as well I
I think it is slightly in the name itself : FAME
Faster Adoption and Manufacturing of Electric (Vehicles)
So it is to be expected that the scheme was aimed at electric transition itself from day 1 of its inception. In fact under FAME 1 hybrids used to get subsidy just like EVs but Maruti squandered that subsidy quota by selling nano femto hybrid (SHVS)
theicct.org/sites/default/files/publications/India-hybrid-and-EV-incentives_working-paper_ICCT_27122016.pdf
Page 2 btw
(A shame that govt document is so badly written and uploaded on some obscure site that I have to post the pdf of the document from ICCT who have better access, formatting and readability)
If anyone, then not govt, Maruti is to blame for wasting the quota on their fake hybrid instead of actual hybrids being sold now.
The current scenario is even footing for both EVs and Hybrids. EV subsidy quota also expired in March 2023 for ITR rebate of 1.5L and states like delhi ncr also exhausted the quota within 1 year of the subsidy going online (2020-2021)
It is expected that FAME 3 will purely focus on charging infra and commercial vehicles only which is a good move, at this point charging infra and awareness about the same would be better nudge for adoption than lower costs (something which has already been reduced to quite an extent through recent EV price cuts)
20:43
> is one thing like see I love EVS from the standpoint of Driving Experience that's it's fun it's great it's and we've I will continue to say that today they're are lifestyle Choice they're not an environment choice because if you just do a basic Google search about the kind of mining that's happening
I would not say a “google” search alone is enough, I would not treat anything below peer reviewed journals or reports as reliable due to the lobbying efforts of oil companies. They already did it once in 90s for the GM EV1, ie massive disinformation campaigns to save the service industry and profits of oil industry. I would recommend ICCT resources, the same which uncovered dieselgate. Links in separate comment for visibility.
> to get um lithium and Cobalt and all for these batteries it's scary it's freaky I mean yeah yeah and and I think also you have
to remember that petrol as devastating as you think it is diesel as devastating as you think it is is a very Advanced system of extraction today which is far less wasteful than where it began
Not to say that lithium mining is all rainbow and unicorns, but here we are comparing a process done ONCE for EV (battery production) to a RECURRING process of oil extraction, refining and transport. In fact even today, using by above example only of googling, you can openly find emissions impact of EV battery mining in terms of a particular X number in kgCO2 per kWh battery. However, try the same for oil and you would get convoluted answers as to how it is too complicated and how it is a trade secret (actually happened to me when looking up cobalt usage in desulphurisation of crude oil)
It is apparent who is not afraid to show the data and who is hiding it, not even for the first time. Even today it comes to light how the methane flaring from oil rigs and refineries is not fully burning the methane and letting 70% more of it into the atmosphere than initially reported by oil companies. Via IEA in separate comment.
Such a great, sane & holistic conversation! Send it to em govt reps somehow...
Thanks for joining in!
Hey guys! Slightly off topic, but I had a couple of questions some weeks back on visibility in the Baleno and how to better judge the corners. And you guys gave some superb advice. I took them, implemented it and also drove more following that advice and now am much more confident compared to just 5 to 6 weeks back. I'd like to thank y'all for that brilliant advice.
Also, I want to ask, how to improve further? I want to learn to rev match shift and heel-toe downshift, that's one of the main things I wanted to learn and that's mainly why I chose manual. Can you tell me how do I do that? How do I do that in the Baleno? I do it on my motorcycle and am familiar with the concept, but haven't been able to do it well on the car. Any tips you guys can share on this?
Miss those days of the small DDiS engines and the 1.6 Hyundai CRDi with Ford's TDCI. Man weren't they the best for India. 😢
Those had issues with emissions. Which is why they went away.
😊 Thank you so much we will chill no panicking ❤
This connect ❤
👍🏽
For environmental protection, the govt should bring stringent laws for vehicle longevity and right to repair. Spare parts should be available in the open market from all manufacturers( I am looking at you Honda).
Also this flex fuel is basically adulterated petrol so if anything, petrol prices should reduce significantly, it should not be sold at the same price as pure petrol.
There should be option to retrofit engines to be compatible with e20 or e30 or whatever. Vehicles should comply with emission norms, not age. If age is the deciding factor then we should start by throwing out the old farts out from the parliament.
Nuclear diamond EVs are just bad idea because many people don't/can't maintain the petrol vehicles properly. Then you will have to evacuate an entire block one morning because someone failed to maintain their vehicle properly and threw around radioactive elements everywhere. Most of the users are not responsible enough to maintain miniature nuclear reactor in our cars.
Also about comparing the horsepowers between EV and ICE, I recently learned a horse makes around 15 horsepowers, don't know how to feel about that.
Great podcast as always guys.
Hullo TVM! Thanks for sharing your take! The bit about age is funny! 😆
> Vehicles should comply with emission norms, not age.
The countries like USA charge almost 100-200$ for certifying vehicles every year, we have pucc but those ppl dont even insert the device and give report, how many cars you really think are polluting as rated? Will people pay so much for annual fitness checks?
leave that, arai mileage is known to be overestimated however the main issue is that mileage itself is calculated as by product of emissions which means even the ARAI tested emissions are underreported to begin with when the car is sold itself
> If age is the deciding factor then we should start by throwing out the old farts out from the parliament.
absolutely, the fact that 70-80yo boomers are deciding policy for next decade when they aren't even sure of completing their 5y term alive
People who have cars are already paying through their noses for road tax, toll tax, petrol tax. So don't underestimate then for paying for a stringent pollution test. However the bit you said about testers not putting sensors in exhaust i.e. basically cheating the system is right but cheating also happens when issuing licenses too.
Thanks for the shout-out to Indore! It’s always awesome to see my hometown mentioned. Really enjoyed the video and appreciate the great content-keep up the amazing work!
Heya SS! Lovely city too!
What episode man. Gadkari ji get them into transport ministry
Thanks for joining us @msbharat017.
Riding the Ather 450 really changed my mindset on EV scooters. The torque felt effortless regardless of pillion. The modes do work. The Warp mode really pulls sharp and fast. Looking forward to more such exciting EVs.
Thinking about multiple fuel choices apart from Petrol, Diesel also sounds exciting🎉
Great discussion as usual.
Shumi being brutally confident and dark really got me to pause whatever I was doing and listen again.😂
Sunday routine : Give a full lenght mock, cry cause you failed, make tea and watch an episode of disconnect......ThisConnect ? idkk
Chin up! All the best for the next one!
21:50 another aspect I want to point out is that people disregarded human life in general for greater technological and scientific progress. We had 9 year Olds employed as factory chimney cleaners back then, we added lead in petrol before we discovered it was a bad thing. The engineering around petrol and diesel were made reliable upon the backs of these sacrifices we made as species. With the progress we've made on human rights I think it will be a far greater challenge to transition in the span it took us to adopt our conventional sources of energy without throwing people under the bus in the name of progress
We have learned a thing or two from the last transition and it would be less prudent of us to avoid as many mistakes as we possibly can @johnkodamala6149. But yes, transition of any kind, isn't gonna come easy.
As of now, maize is biggest source of ethanol production in India not sugarcane due to FRP getting very high for sugarcane.
Thanks again AP!
Long wait for a podcast on this topic, thanks… it filled in most of the blanks. There’s lot of noises in the internet to bias or grow fear upon one’s choice based on fuel options, those are quite polluting nowadays. Glad that this podcast detoxed it.
My favorites are biomass based CNG, transition hurts, age of innovation, innovation infrastructure and eggs and baskets; as it conforms that good things are happening.
Yap… with Bugatti’s examples… I was recently following velomobile stuff.
Hope to see a podcast on such weird or “utpatang” type mobility 😉
You and I have same mindset towards EVs nd other stuff ..
But I was not clear to justify my answer. But your video 💯
😂 I'm going to tag this video to Mr. *Nitin* *Gadkari*
MotorInc Morning 🌆
Morning @sreejat!
OEMs like tata hyundai have actually opposed favorable laws for Hybrid cars for the long time. This leads to siam opposing lower taxes and subsidies for hybrid.
Packed with a lot of thought provoking aspects which are being overlooked right now in terms of alternative fuels. I loved the conversation for they way things were discussed in a macro perspective even though Shumi went 'dark' a few times and I am with him on that.
Thank you for watching @pskiranps.
I think MotorInc should check the numbers for pollution due to EV. Engineering Explained has a brilliant video on this with Nissan leaf as a example. Please do check the numbers ,it might mislead the veiwers
As a climate entrepreneur, just want to point out @Shumi that there is conclusive research now that shows the current climate calamity would not be happening if human activity wasn't there.
Happy to share much more context
Hi @adityapriyadarshi1227, thanks for the info. Please share more research if you have them so that everyone can learn more. Thanks in advance.
You should say "Thisconnect" without countdown and while facing the camera. The struggle would be something to look forward to at the end of the each episode.
Um, that's what they did in this one @sho_k1?
"without countdown". @@motorinc
Please tell which is better... Scorpio n or kia seltos..iam confused in these 2
Kartik: "What is it called?, That goes up, and charges...Panton?"
It is called Pantograph.
Thanks!
does octane 95 fuel also have ethanol mixed in it? if no, will you try to use it in your car to check if things improve.
i reallly dont know well this solution is
like i am no economist nor am i highly educated person
I am just a student who is just finishing his graduation this March but the thing we miss the most in EVs is the quick just fill and go option as available in petrol and diesel vehicles
But what one can do is make more and more removable batteries and there are already EVs(Raft was one probably a chinese brand i guess) who have removable batteries
just like what we did with petrol to make it available to everyone we extracted it a lot and then transported it to various places creating hubs and accessible to everyone everywhere
by having these removable batteries what we can do is setup multiple ports and stations where one can just come give his existing battery to charge and have the charged battery installed again and go
just the Quick Easy Fill and Go option but with EVs
i know the idea seems immature and idk how viable it will be to the country but just like TYPE C charging port which is a uniform thing in almost all new gen mobiles what we are able to do is charge any phone with any charger as all are type C
this same uniformication can be done by the govt for all the battery types for EVs to be made in same type same design which can fit any E-vehicle yes we can design vehicles depending on performance and size of battery it needs but thats just the further extension
just think it like this
M size batteries for all 125cc to 200cc vehicles L sized for above 200cc and so on
I dont think storage is that much big of a problem , we already figured a way to store petrol which is liquid
also dont we replace batteries on a regular basis in our Ac and Tv remotes etc it will work kinda like that
and then also I agree using a full petrol bike in future will be a luxury kinda thing just like Horse Riding has become now
I am Open to all opinions Lets Discuss what others think
Hey CK! Absolutely happy to have you spark this discussion. Swappable batteries are coming to India too. Should help improve usability and battery utilisation.
Guys please make a podcast on "how we will drive tomorrow" will we really own vehicles decade down the line? What's the benefit of collecting all the data at the moment? Will we be just passengers after some time? Work live to hear you both on this!
We have kinda touched upon this already Akshay. We think that down the line we'll all just be passengers inside the car. We mostly won't have to own one too. Shumi's pessimistic about motorcycles in this future and Kartikeya has valiantly said that he'll fight to keep riding motorcycles. Guess we're gonna have to wait and see what happens. 😅
Hey motorinc, i am interested in the NS200 because it's the only liquid cooled 6 gear bike in that budget. other alternatives aren't fast enough or lack smtn like 5th gear or liquid cooling. Anything over that budget just gets defeated by the NS400z but i can't afford a 400cc bike's fuel costs. Should i go for the NS 200 then? i want a sporty affordable good corner Loving bike. im asking you this because the pulsar is so old but i still think it's the best at its price.
Plugin hybrid is my favourite option for car but it cost minimum 30 lakhs... And in India most people buy cars around 15 lakhs
@45:42 ...karthikeya at his absolute best 😂😂😂😂😂
54:25 can’t get enough of Shumi’s humour
Thanks
Thanks Avinash!
Your videos are better than the ₹2500/hour therapy sessions I pay for to stay sane. Lovely.
We'd be happy to keep you company in addition to that @AbhishekPandey-yube.
Great insightful content as usual no complains there, but where is the upcoming episode topic play between you two? I loved that part at the end when you guys just play some back n forth after a great conversion really missed it.
Thank you for the feedback @kakarot9899!
Remember the Honda Activa CNG?
They incorporated the tanks under the handlebars
I'm a newbie car driver. Can you recommend a good second car with automatic gears to consider buying?
A little off topic, Shumi mentioned that we Indians always have thought and taught that rear break on a motorcycle is more important and should be used more, and I agree to Shumi because thats what I had heard until I figured out after buying my first bike. But a question for you Shumi sir, you had mentioned in one of the This connect ep as well that you hardly touch rear break in the city, whats the correct way? Should we totally depend on our front strong brakes?
Yes, @omcarrides, you should stick to using the front brakes most of the times. The exceptions are when your speeds are very high and the front brake alone isn't enough to bring the motorcycle to a stop on time. Or, if you have greater load in the pillion than at the front.
@@motorinc Cool Chief!!
If nuclear vehicles ever get made, we would have the water problem though. The nuclear energy heats water, which spins the turbine, which generates electricity...
👍🏽
Spot on about following the money! How ‘green’ electric cars are is a growing debate now….the cost one pays in terms of mining minerals for batteries to damage in disposing old ones. Seen intercity electric buses being charged using diesel gensets….I think it’s largely about economics and optics.
So true DM.
the valuable distinction here is that battery production is one time emission, and disposal is not happening in first place because the batteries are outlasting the mfg expectations.
For oil extraction and refining, it is lifetime emissions for that car. Every drop has to extracted, refined and transported, for it to finally reach the pump, just like battery, the fuel in the tank has already polluted before being filled and burnt.
I feel Diesels can't get very expensive beyond the level they are today, because of commercial vehicles. Any more price hikes, and prices of everyday goods will go through roof. Almost all trucks (at least around Maharashtra or South) have Diesels and it won't make a business sense to run them if more price hikes are introduced. Plus, Turbo petrols fuel efficiency is soo bad, at times you feel punished for getting that performance or power. You realistically only use it 5 or 10% of the driving time. Diesels won't make you feel bad about the power (or guity). Great fuel efficiency, not so great price gap and all discouraging or punishing is already done (it seems!) to say the least. So I guess Diesel will still make sense.. if you could have pre BS6 diesel vehicle without AdBlue problem
Commercial vehicle tax slabs are different from the pvt ones, the real cost of the diesel is not in the price of purchase as much as the headaches of dpf and adblue that come with it.
EUROVII & BS7 is hanging guillotine on even petrols, let alone diesel, the costs to bring it upto the new emissions norms are going to be back breaking
@@shresthsonkar9207 I'm saying, price hikes of fuel (not vehicle). It's already at 90 something vs Petrol at 105. Any more hike and it will hamper the everyday goods cost.
And I'm not advocating to buy new Diesel with AdBlue headache. But if you already have pre 2019 diesel, or buy one in resale around that time.. it still makes sense to run that vehicle till you are forced to not renew the registration (after 15 years).
Side eyeing my phone and just waiting for that motor inc pop up ! ❤
Glad to have you join us @ameykaval5576.
HElpful Information as always. Can you guys do video recommending bike and car as per budget bands? It will be helpful.
Hi Nikhil, any specific vehicles or segments you were thinking of?
@@motorinc Personally , Bike for around 1 lakh budget & Car for around 7 Lakh budget (new or 2nd hand).
@@motorinc And thanks for reply. I did not expect that. You guys are truly amazing. Hope you will be same when you become super huge. And I really appreciate that you did not mince your words & give thoughtful criticism with as thoughtful solutions.
WE WANT ThisConnect BLOOPERS
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The telecom reforms, which were initiated by CHANDRA BABU NAIDU (atal ji times) in 90's is the best example of policy reforms. which we're benefitting now! VISION is what need for the Indian politicians!
Diesel emits 50% less CO² compared to petrol. So how can we solve that by adopting only petrols ?
What are your thoughts on converting petrol 2 wheelers to electric ( basically hybrid) from the Bangalore startup companies like Green Tiger etc who also takes care of the RTO clearance and ARAI certification too.
Basically a true hybrid.
Please shed some light
ESG stands for Environmental, Social and Governance. It’s way of reviewing a way of how business’s products and services to sustainable development
Thanks @RajaSekar-dw1kb.
Change is the only thing that’s constant!! Like how Fuel injectors was made mandatory it’s just the time factor now to know what’s next!! But for sure as a personal matter I think I will miss the ICE when this happens!!
Yep! What is next…
Is the xp95 petrol ethanol blended or is it just the increased octane number with the same ethanol blend
I am loving this format however, i would love to see you guys do a podcast with other auto journalists, top officials of auto industry etc. 😊
Thanks for the feedback Vaibhav!
Hi Karthik, it’s called the Pantograph.
But this was a great discussion. How does one decide on what to upgrade? Do we still go for ICE vehicles, especially Diesel?
Also, what’s the next topic? You didn’t reveal that or is that a surprise as well? 😂
One suggestion is if you could discuss the state of car / bike brands in India like Toyota, VW twins, Honda etc. and their future plans?
Such a intelligent discussion, thx!
Thanks RV!
I had purchased a Nissan Magnite CVT last year (2023) despite warnings from my relatives about Nissan's future in India.
My original idea 5 years ago (when Nexon EV was launched) was to just by an EV whenever I was ready for buying a car. But the time came for me to buy a car last year and still I had no viable EVs at reasonable prices. Even if I offset the cost of fuel, I'd have to run almost 2 lakh KM just to offset the upfront cost of EVs against an equivalent Petrol Car! And to add to that, I'd compromise on range and charging infrastructure which is still not reasonably good enough for regular commuters.
So I decided to buy the least expensive petrol automatic (a proper automatic and not an AMT), that allowed me the range and mobility at a decent price. And Magnite was the clear choice. If I am able to keep it for about 7 years (till 2030) I'm hoping I'll have better options by then.
But even that looks bleak now!
Why aren't there decent options still in 2024? How has the EV progress slowed down so much in just 5 years! I'm now questioning if EVs will ever reach price parity (for like to like features) with Petrol Cars ever! I was reading news about EVs taking over in less than a decade in 2018 and 2019 every other day. Now, I don't see any news awesome EV technology at all. Is it really that difficult to democratize EV tech?
Even a very expensive EV (about 30 laksh) is very handicapped with it's range and non-standardized charging infrastructure. (The new crop of Chinese EVs might probably change this).
When the time for my next car comes, I sincerely hope I'll have better options than I had in 2023.
Good questions. Great points. Let’s see what tech we get in time for your next car. 😁
Damm guy knows about Super Capacitors, would love to listen to more new tech like SS batteries, generator based hybrids and more
Lol that example of a new eco friendly house where you can only go to the loo once a day cracked me up more than it should. EVs do seem like that new house with limited range and slow and finicky charging infra.
😁
That thing on top of those trucks in Europe (and what you see on electric locomotives) is called a pantograph.
So which motorcycle you suggest we should buy currently looking at e20 petrol compatibility? Or are all new motorcycle are compatible with it ?
Every new motorcycle that comes out now is E20 compatible @iparesh14.
you guys said that you'll be doing "BRAND LOYALTY" in this connect S02E02. waiting for it.
During 18-19th Peanut Oil was used in vechiles and gave a really good mileage aswell. We can explore many options. But the idea of Nuclear fision as a fuel is not so far, people are working on it. One of the example of this is NASA - Project Orion. Great Fun Podcast.
Also Voyager 1 can be a great study that can be taken up for future fueling alternatives, OR REMs
Thanks NS! The Voyagers are heroes. ❤️
Great conversation as always but I am curious as to why weren't synthetic fuels discussed!
Not feasible enough yet @Vehify!
@@motorinc agreed but I do think that India is the place to make things cost effective like we have have done for other things
Question to Motorinc.
Can you disconnect battery in a Hybrid vehichle. Say engine life is 15 years and my battery life is 7 years. I dont want to replace the battery but still drive my vehicle. Since the battery just gives assistance and the majority of work is done by ICE, is there a technological solution or either a jugaad to disconnect it..??
Since we're talking about a movement here at motorinc. Can we discuss some modern automobile features that are absolutely ridiculous like lightbar taillights (cheap way of getting out of designing a proper taillights) or indicator and taillights integrated into one for the same reason. Hidden exhaust pipes (is it just me who likes a visible exhaust?). Piano black interiors (absolute scratch dirt and finger print magnet). Headlights positioned near fog lights (looking at you hyundai).
Thanks TD3G! There is a lot! 😁
Why no one is talking about E20 fuel starting in 2025?
What should we do with our old cars?
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I'm sincerely hoping RNG / CBG is the silver bullet we need. Technically, it should be able to take most types of biomass.
Biggest problem with Natural Gas is storage, by the way, Methane (the largest constituent of natural gas) can be converted to Ethanol pretty easily.
I'm not sure about economies of scale but this would basically mean ICEs forever!
Also, CNG can be used in tandem with fuel cell and motor. Even though Hydrogen is a lot of power per kg, it's significantly harder to store.
Curious which solution will eventually manage economy of scale.
when we say CH4 to C2H5OH easily, it probably involves multiple chemical reactions which involves heating to 1500ºC in presence of catalyst to make acetylene C2H2, then it must be treated with H2SO4 to make ethanol, usage of high temperatures and acids means it will be costly and heat must come from somewhere, which basically means burning something else to generate the heat
Watch on 1.5x to hear the old Shumi
😂😂
Aeroplane burns approx Rs 3-4 Lakh fuel for 1 journey from Mumbai to Delhi. That's the amount of money I spend on petrol for 6-7 yrs. And we talk about the scarcity of fuel.... 😊
I believe our earth has enough fuel for at least 500 yrs for sure.
Just a quick question why is it necessary for the cng tank to be cylindrical , like can we not change its shape to incorporate it into a scooter?
That will compromise its ability to keep the pressure stable @namansaxena3193. Cylinders are the most optimal shape to store gasses in.
I own a diesel, An NA Petrol ,A Turbo petrol And an EV.
AND I LOVE all of them 😊
Shumi & Kartikeya can we have a small conversation about Solid State Batteries. They seem really promising. They're lighter, degrade slower and have higher power density than Li-ion. Discovered them in the Yoshino Powerbank. Great conversation like always
Thanks SB for the suggestion.
I like the addition of the new colors in the background as a viewer.
Keep mixing up with colors and more
Mkbhd is one creator who keeps doing really minimal but subtle changes every now and then
Thanks SY!
This episode was truly insightful and enjoyable! It’s great to have something captivating to watch for an hour online, all thanks to MotorInc. 😀
Hullo again AR! Thanks so much for your time!