Baby Reindeer (Chapter 5: Your Emails)
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- Опубликовано: 14 май 2024
- Dr Kirk responds to your emails about Baby Reindeer.
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Trigger Warning: This episode may include topics such as assault, trauma, and discrimination. If necessary, listeners are encouraged to refrain from listening and care for their safety and well-being.
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I'm curious to know how outlandish of an idea it would be to have Richard Gadd on an episode of Psychology in Seattle. That's a conversation I would love to sit in on.
That would be fascinating
1000000% I would DIEEEEE. I think Richard Gadd would actually really like kirks style and understanding of the film
Would be amazing! I am pretty sure Richard Gadd is getting A LOT of requests right now, though
@@louisern4278 are any of the requests a lovely psychologist called Kirk tho???? 😂
@@An-hv1nt I can only hope!
Ex-stalker here. It took me years to realize that what I did was stalking and that I had been abusive to the person I thought I loved. It was a years long friendship that turned into romantic obsession. I wish I could apologize but I'm afraid trying any contact would amount to breaking boundaries again. Reflecting on it, i think there's some key points as to why I did it:
1. Obsessive thinking patterns. I have a tendency to obsess and hyperfixate on things, subjects, work, etc. Sadly, it also extends to people, resulting in very intense and focused attention on one individual at a time. Turns out this is because I'm autistic. I'm working on regulating the effects on people by redirecting my attention if I notice I'm thinking too much about one person in particular.
2. Romantic infatuation: Citing the series Crazy Ex-Girlfriend: "he made me feel warm inside like glitter was exploding inside me". That's how it felt for me each time I went to their house uninvited, looked at their social media, waited for them at bus stops, texted them, called them. I wanted to see them. And when I worried something bad happened, the glitter turned into spikes of panic that pushed me through the discomfort of calling 20+ times. I made myself numb to doing that, because I convinced myself it was necessary. The "It's for their own good" mentality. The discomfort is there for a reason thought, you need to listen to it and respect the other's boundaries.
3. Idolization. When you truly love someone you care for their well being and their agency. When you are infatuated, you instead make an idealized image out of that person and stop listening to their real self. You focus on how good the idol makes you feel and may even feel betrayed or disappointed when the real person isn't like that. I think this comes from the fantasy of wanting to be saved from your own suffering. You imagine a perfect person who is the light of your life and will magically heal your depression. The infatuation makes it so that you may indeed feel happy around them for a bit. This feeds the obsession, but as sickening as it might be to admit: you turned a loved one into a love object.
4. It's a distraction. Focusing on another person as your "savior" is a way to escape your troubles and avoid taking a hard look at yourself and even a way of escaping situations of abuse that you might be suffering in other areas. This focus on the person as your "savior" makes you feel loosing contact or not being with them is similar to dying or becoming doomed. You need to work on your own trauma.
5. Underdeveloped empathy. I believe empathy is a muscle and you can get better at it with time and active effort to understand others. If you have become detached from others or closed off because of loneliness, abuse or immaturity, you'll have a hard time getting in the other person shoes and realizing that it might be scary to receive 20 calls in a row or to see you outside their place of work with 0 notice because you waited outside an hour around the time they go home.
6. You might be ascribing merit to the skills or actions involved. "I'm so patient, I've been waiting here for 2 hours!", "this shows my dedication", "I''m so good at figuring out times and places from social media posts". Sure, patience, dedication and deductive skills can be good things but any other use of those skills is better than this. You need to recognize you are not being dedicated or romantic, you are harming someone.
7. Modeling. Mom would bring me along in her efforts to catch dad cheating on the act since I was a kid. Things like coming home in stealth at unexpected times with no lights, walking in toes through a patch of woods. She gets mad nowadays when I point out waiting for someone unannounced on their bus stop after getting mad they didn't respond a call is not a normal thing. My actions are still my own thought. Romantization of stalker-like behaviors in media may play a role, but I personally feel in my case it was not as relevant as my normalcy meter being off from the start.
Not a reason, but an insidious aspect: the time an effort invested in stalking can be felt like something you did /for/ that person and you can feel like they owe you attention or to correspond your feelings in some way. Thinking of the quote "after everything I've done for you (that you didn't ask for)". You may even feel /they/ are taking advantage of /you/ because of how much you do "for them". Again, I think empathy and enough distance to come out of the romantic obsession fog is needed here.
In summary, I don't think most stalkers even realize that what we do is wrong, blinded by our own attachment needs, obsessive thought patterns, bad modeling and stunted or eclipsed empathy. A lot of time, distance, empathy and self reflection is needed.
This is fascinating. I never understood why someone would stalk someone, but this gives great insight.
Thank you so much not only for sharing, but for doing the hard work of self reflection so you have the insights to share at all!!
I am a recovered BPD sufferer. I think I was borderline NPD tbh. I was very narcissistic and occasionally leaned I to psychopathy.
I've done a lot of growing and more recently deep self reflection. I understand first-hand just how hard and painful the work is. Most people can't handle being that honest both WITH themselves and ABOUT themselves.
Good on you for doing it.
You are a better person for it and you have improved more than just your own life ❤ from one recovering person to another recovering person, keep going and know that you are doing a great job!
That level of awareness is some achievement. How you describe sounds a lot like my mother, only I’m the subject in her case.
It’s hard balancing protecting myself from her v compassion for her and not wanting to cause her pain. She really doesn’t understand what she does ‘wrong’ and has her own justification for each act she commits.
Occasionally, I can get her to see my point of view but it only lasts a few hours before a barrage of emails telling me I’m wrong to find her difficult.
I understand part of her mechanism is that if she’s not perfect, by default she’s the worst person ever so has to protect herself against potentially being in the wrong.
It helped reading your reply
What a well thought out comment, thanks for sharing ❤️
This is a very insightful breakdown and displays great self reflection. Thank you for taking the time to shine light on it from your perspective as someone who has stalked before. Such information is very valuable especially if we want to both understand ourselves, heal and seek help, but to also recognize the patterns in others
Dr Honda here spitting bars on various personality disorders and referencing specific incidents from the show, statistical data, etc without stuttering or breaking a sweat is chef’s kiss and makes me realize how smart/impressive some humans are 😂.
So much this!! 💯
@@Aerojuanas he knows his stuff for sure ❤
I listen to your podcasts and videos so much and yet somehow, I always manage to learn something new… you should be declared a public good, for positive contribution to society ❤️
YESSSSS!! I love his passion for psychology. He truly is an expert, and I love that he just easily speaks facts lol I've seen a few therapists on YT react to shows, but they just react like a normal person and i find it boring lol i love learning
Ha! I don't if I've "spit bars" but I'll take the compliment. :)
Hi, bpd person here. And I just want to say the way you describe borderline and other things, with no judgement in your voice, and not making people out to seem crazy, is a fresh breath of air. I know it's your job to have understanding of all of it. But I know the stigma of how people think of borderliners and demonized people make us seem can be really harsh. I've been working hard for YEARS on myself, to change my thinking, my behavior, etc. Anyway, thank you for being such a light for such dark things.
When you talked about your client being diagnosed with bipolar in the hospital it reminded me of when I went in to the hospital for heart palpitations and was diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder and sent on my way. My therapist and I had a (tearful) laugh about it because a) how can you diagnose me off of an hour hospital visit and b) it wasn’t even right anyway because I was diagnosed afterwards with an actual physical condition causing heart palpitations 😂 i had been in therapy for years at that point and never had been diagnosed with GAD. I feel that ER doctors shouldn’t be making psychiatric diagnosis but that’s just me
To live a whole lifetime like Martha is not a walk in the park. Meanwhile, it isn’t anyone else’s responsibility to give up all of their hopes and dreams to provide constant supply for someone like her.
Tbh, Martha reminds me of my mother. She always confused my fear for love. I ended up moving across continents just to get away from her. She died a few years ago, sadly because the hospital staff that could have saved her life had been harassed by her for years and had simply had enough.
Although the Martha/Donny situation is tragic, I’m glad it’s being discussed. It’s a relevant topic for many people.
I also have PTSD and I agree with the person who said that watching the show with you made processing it more tolerable and helpful. I had the same experience. Thank you!
What I found to be stunning about Martha was that once consequences from law enforcement first came in to play, she stopped. She knew how to stop. It wasn’t compulsive. She just waited until she was no longer in trouble to start up again. I find that element of the character to be incredibly telling of how pathological she was and how she knew how to wait it out so she could get right back to her stalking once she was in the clear. I would love to hear Dr. Honda talk about that specific part of it and other people’s opinions.
That part reminded me of my own stalker how he would just find new ways to get close as soon as the current method got him into hot water. The series helped to process that negative experience in a different light. Frankly, I had never considered his background or possible past trauma that made him behave the way he did. It was definitely an eye opening show.
@@eveFlower101 my stalker is so demented I couldn’t care less about whatever trauma he tells himself is him being a violent, obsessive, abusive asshole. Loads of people have trauma and don’t go on to become creepy stalkers who don’t care about other people’s boundaries or well being. I’m sorry but f*** anyone who uses trauma as an excuse for abuse.
Trauma can be a reason for emotional dysregulation and other forms of dysfunction, but to be an abuser - that’s 100% a cognitive CHOICE. Unless they’re fully schizophrenic or legitimately psychotic and delusional. I know some stalkers fall into this category. But most stalkers are ex partners who feel jilted and can’t take no for an answer.
idk if its quite that simple. Ppl can typically stop behaviors of any sort for some time period and then like an addiction, the need becomes too great and they relapse. We also dk if she was getting her "fix" somewhere else during that time period. Who knows, maybe she is this deep planner. She doesnt strike me as one, though, she's unable to keep her lies straight.
This is such an important discussion. To allow perpetrators to step into the light. I was an abuser. My mother would say 'You have a cruel streak in your nature.' Today I realise there was a cruel streak in my nurture. I am learning to forgive and love myself
Cruel streak is also called ego, ego is there to protect you, protection for survival…..once you can better understand why your ego has felt the need to protect you in the way that made you feel safe, so can start having compassion rather than judgement for the consequential circumstance.
Our upbringing has so much to do with our behaviors as adults, and our attachment styles, how we view others, etc. The more you start to notice your ways of thinking, the more you can ask yourself "What is it that made me think this way? Have my parents reinforced this onto me in any way, consciously or unconsciously?"
One of my favorite quotes is "Until you make the subconscious conscious, it will direct your life and you will call it fate." -Carl Jung
I wish you the best, and good luck on your mental health journey ♡
@@anyadarlingg Thank you
Your videos on this have helped me process my own trauma. Thank you.
Dr Honda’s non judgement needs to be spread across the world- thank you for tjat
Thanks for making this! Baby Reindeer was actually directed by two women, Weronika Tofilska and Josephine Bornebusch.
Oh really? Why did I think Gadd directed it? Weird. Yes, Tofilska and Bornebusch rule.
You are such a compassionate human. We need more people like Dr. Kirk Honda. What a world this could be
I was pursued by my therapist despite leaving the town. He said he needed a forwarding address and phone number and he rang me when I got to the place I was going to. I lived 6 hours away. He wanted phone sex etc. Long story. It was bad. I thought he cared about me. He didn't,
He ruined my life. I was very vulnerable and didn't understand the dynamics. I always felt I was the insane one and couldn't understand why he treated me so badly at times. One things for sure, I don't feel sorry for him at all.
@@lulunz6809I hope he faced accountability. This is horrible how he abused his power and used your vulnerability against you.
@@Tesis I can see that now however it took years to recover and despite having a good amount of therapy, I struggle to trust any sort of medical professional let alone a therapist. He lost his job and that's when I discovered there were other victims. I did do an affidavit against him so he couldn't do it to anyone else. He kept pursuing me for a few years. I thought it was because he actually cared for me on some level. It wasn't that though. He wanted me to lie and say it never happened so he could work as a therapist again. I am so relieved I had a wonderful female therapist who supported me to see what was really happening. It took a long time for me to see it wasn't my fault so in the end I could see clearly that he was a broken man and I couldn't fix him. I never took it to court. I was too unwell for so long, the opportunity was gone.
@lulunz6809 oh my god, that's terrible you went thru that. I hope things are better now for you ♡
@@anyadarlingg Thank you. They are much better now. I did hit some devastatingly low points in my life as I tried to go on with life after it all was over. I guess in some ways it had to happen that way for me to get the help I needed to be able to keep going on. I was very fortunate to get some wonderful support from some excellent female therapists who really did help me through those times. I was not the easiest client, as you can imagine however they were committed so I was very lucky. One thing I have learned is not to put anyone, including a therapist or mental health professional on a pedestal. While some of us have face some shocking adversity, we are not broken and if you gut is telling you something is very wrong, then trust it. Talk to someone else if you are unsure. Never trust someone who tells you to keep your relationship secret.
Oh Dr. Honda. My heart stopped hearing you say, “Am I stupid?” Referencing that Martha could have Bipolar and your disagreement of that.
I guess, for me hearing you say that… caught me thinking. “If he thinks that once in a while. I shouldn’t be so hard on myself.” Thank you for your vulnerability. 🙏🏼
Yeah, I wonder that every day. Thanks for the solidarity.
My ex was diagnosed with bipolar pretty quickly and suffered on the medication until finally being diagnosed with BPD and receiving treatment. I have known a not insignificant number of people with bpd that were diagnosed erroneously with bipolar and even a few vice versa.
A family member was diagnosed bipolar however I'm positive they are suffering from bpd, narcissism and alcoholism.
How the hell can you get those mixed up!!! I'm no professional but they're completely different.
A doctor said Bipolar to me after I'd told them it was BPD!?
Lots of adults with undiagnosed adhd are misdiagnosed with bipolar too
My mom also got a bipolar diagnosis before borderline.
Dr Honda l applaud the work you do here. You dedicate your time, a big part of your life, to help us, the victims, the perpetrators, to heal, to seek help, to be kinder to each other to find a way to peace within. I hope you never stop doing the immeasurably valuable work you do for us and hopefully for you too, as long as it feels good for you and the passion is there. You have become a part of my life. Not in the stalkerish way, but as someone l can learn from and trust. Even when l disagree or get frustrated. You are important. Just wanted to come and say that.
Dr. Honda, many psychiatrists have explained that they are instructed to diagnose bipolar because it is covered by insurance, there are meds for it, and clients are accepting of it.
Also, there is a british documentary on RUclips called Being Bipolar. It shows many people struggling with Biplar diagnoses, however one of them they show while manic. It is the only representation of true mania I've ever seen in a documentary/movie/show. They also interview him when not manic. Highly recommend.
@@tmtb80interesting maybe it’s something dr Honda could watch and react to if he hasn’t already
@@Aw_tig that would be great. Maybe also he could address Medicating Normal. I saw that UCLA medical school (if I am remembering correctly?) have watched and are seriously questioning their psych dept curriculum, etc.
It's also really common for patients to get misdiagnosed in psychiatric care because they are seeing the person briefly and at their worst. Technically you dhouldnt even give a dx of bi-polar without knowing the duration of moods which can't be assessed over a weekend. Insurance does add pressure to give quick diagnoses, but clinicians also have options like provisional dx and can change their diagnosis as they get to know the person, unlike in hospital settings.
During the series, I first identified with Richard - no boundaries, then with Martha’s decompensation after Dr Kirk’s compassionate commentary. Narcissists have no self to make a boundary, and daily pain and distress. This series hit deep.
I had someone show up to my house roughly once a quarter for a year or so. They also called incessantly, used different numbers, changed numbers, to try to reach me. 20 calls at midnight type of thing.
It was SO scary, even though I had known this person for a long time. My heart would race and I couldn’t get my body to feel safe even when it was “just” phone calls.
I’ve moved a couple of times since then so I am feeling much better. But I can’t imagine it getting more intense than that because it was already terrifying.
I hope that person never catches up with you, again. It must be a constant anxiety. When they go quiet, for a long time, it's tempting to think they have moved on. But then I think stalkers deliberately take sabbaticals in order to knock their victims off their rhythm. Just to teach us to never feel safe, and to never drop our guards or start to trust. And to let us know we will never escape. Sometimes, they must get permanently distracted. Good luck.
It's so healing to hear a therapist discuss processes of figuring out trauma and poor-coping with so much grace to the self. Wisdom.
She almost looked catatonic in that scene when she sat in the cold all night and was just staring. But again, it’s a written script.
I went to my family doc once to get new meds for anxiety and depression since my current ones weren't working. She gave me a quiz to fill out for bipolar. I told her that i dont have bipolar but i will look like i do on paper because of x and x and x, and she encouraged me to take the quiz anyways, low and behold it appeared i had bipolar. She prescribed me bipolar meds and i went along with it because, what do i know. They were not a good fit for me but i was frustrated at how quickly they decided i was bipolar regardless of my input
Interesting. I told my therapist I think I might be bipolar and she disagreed with me right off the bat. Maybe because she’s never seen me really angry 😅
What I wondered after watching the show was whether people currently behaving in ways similar to Martha would notice the similarities in their behaviour and realise it was problematic and maybe talk to others about it or seek help. I’ve seen lots of people in comments saying they recognise this was similar to their previous behaviour in the past, but I just wonder for people who are currently behaving in this way is it possible for them to watch and recognise the behaviour or would they not see the problem or make the connection. Maybe it depends on how severe it is, but I’d be interested to hear thoughts on this 😊
4:27 “why a good person would do a very very bad thing? Even for years?“ I feel that sense of curiosity & compassion.
1000% agree with Sarah from France’s email… I too find your content soothing and helpful for staying grounded. I stopped therapy a few years ago but thanks to your content I always have somewhere to go to feel heard and seen and cared for, thank you is a small recompense for the immense good you do. ❤❤❤❤❤
Hi Dr. Kirk, It was nice to see you on Popcorn Planet with Andy👍👏👏👏
I don't understand Andy's popularity.
@@fargotua13that’s okay, the content just isn’t for you then☺️
@@Duckduckobtusegoose I know, really not for me, good enough for plenty other folks
@@fargotua13That sounds kind of dismissive and condescending. Did you mean to give off that vibe? (I could be wrong, of course. Checks and balances for all: me, you, and all us.)
@@laceyunderall22 The Kiffness•I Go Meow🧄
I have to chime in here, I feel the same way with your reaction videos. You are a safe person and you kind of stabilize the experience for trauma victims. So put in another way you are the voice of reason when we watch unhinged shit. Lol it helps a lot. you become a friend we all wish we had. But kind of are that friend in a strange way through RUclips
I have PTSD and watched the documentary without knowing the impact it would have on me. Just like your commenter, in this video, I came to your channel to debrief afterwards, and I found this video cathartic. Your perspective holds a delicate balance between effectively validating victims and humanizing their perpetrators. I have learned from watching you that I can have compassion for the people who have hurt me, but it's okay to distance myself for my own well-being.
This was so healing ❤ i wanted to add for the second to last emailer, i relate to you so much and i wanted to say something i have learned is , try not to judge the "you" then with who you are today. Its easy to look back and think "I shouldnt have gone there, or reacted that way, i made it worse" etc but like Dr Honda says you were traumatised, you were trying to survive. ❤ you deserve to heal and move forward dont look back to the trenches and think "I should have picked up my helmet while being shot at" we're all doing the best we can at that moment in time and our brain chooses odd paths to survive ❤
Should have picked up my helmet while being shot at…. Really hit me
As someone with bipolar i feel like people really dont understand what it is. I mostly get 'oh so youre violent' 'oh so you buy absurd things all the time". Most people just dont get it and put everything under bipolar. Its sad to feel so misunderstood. Thank you dr. Kirk for taking the time to explain mental health. Its great to feel understood here. 🙏
Thanks for once again calling out the bipolar BSers. It is so infuriating. So bizarre.
The complicity question was really interesting. There are different ways of contributing to an outcome--sometimes we're involved knowingly and willingly; but sometimes we contribute to an outcome without realizing it or intending to (and it would be unfair to expect us to have behaved differently). I can wish that I'd known better and regret my involvement--think about regretting your role in someone's getting hurt in a car accident when you were driving carefully), but it doesn't mean i'm complicit in or responsible for that outcome. It's terrible that as victims of abuse, our own behaviour can unintentionally contribute to the outcome that we were abused (or to its duration); but that does mean we're to blame, complicit in, or responsible for the abuse.
Thank you so much for describing the difference between feeling complicit in abuse and how moving past that conceptualization may look. It’s a fine line between learning about how you fed in to a dynamic so that you can learn and feeling complicit because you weren’t perfect. It made me hope Richard Gadd will hear this. I definitely needed to.
Thanks, Eliza!
I just wanted to say that I’ve experienced a lot of what was depicted in the show, so it was kind of triggering to watch. Hearing your take on everything has been really validating and soothing, even healing? So I appreciate you.
Such a wise observation! People are now diagnosing her with various disorders, which does a disservice to those who genuinely suffer from these conditions (imagine that people start believing she suffers from bipolar and all individuals who struggle with it are obsessive stalkers)
And bipolar doesn’t make sense at all! It’s a disorder that typically involves extreme mood swings (which can vary based on the type and the individual). The sustained and obsessive behavior required to stalk someone for years suggests a level of mood stability and motivation that individuals in a depressive episode of bipolar disorder might temporarily lack.
My last ex would break up with me in routine and stalk me around my job cause he knew when I would take me lunch breaks. I’d see his car coming up the street and sometime he would stop like he wanted to talk to me. But in actuality just wanted to see if I was upset about the break up and wanted to beg for him to come back.
My mother didn’t want anything to do with me, now I am attracted to women who don’t want anything to do with me. FML
In our friend group in college one of our close friends was bipolar. He would go through long periods of withdrawal and was avoiding everyone. Then go through phases where he would be partying constantly, doing all sorts of drugs, and friends with everyone. Going out every night, barely sleeping. Then repeat.
I had a boyfriend who broke up with me with no closure, out of the blue. To me, it was out of the blue, as he hadn’t shared any of the thoughts previously. And then blocked me across the board.
I typically don’t think I’m preoccupied anxious, but it did a huge number on me, the way it was done. As it triggered me feeling abandoned, rejected, “not enough.”
I was thankful that he responded to a message I sent him on one of the avenues I had with a “closure letter.” And then I discovered attachment injury resources and realized I was so upset because of stuff with my family of origin. These intimate relationships hit so deep.
My other two relationships were much longer and more in depth than this relationship (years vs months), but the respect given during the breakups and the conversations and space to process was much different, so didn’t trigger that part of myself, in the same way.
That was so interesting to hear about your client diagnosed in the ER with bipolar disorder! I know someone who suffers from treatment-resistant major depression. This person went to the ER once and was admitted into a psych ward, and the first clinician who evaluated that patient said, 'You have been misdiagnosed. You have bipolar disorder, not depression, and that's why nothing is helping you." That person was all of a sudden prescribed a slew of medications, including valproic acid, seroquel, and metformin!
Sometimes we hear a diagnosis so much it becomes everyone’s buzzword. I was convinced I was borderline by an ex and 3 different therapists (insurance changes/moves) all said I didn’t meet the criteria and how they all felt that partner was just using that term incorrectly.
I have the exact same thoughts as Sarah from France🙋🏽♀️ I’m so glad I watched your reaction video because it sort of closed a fear that I always had that there is no hope on getting away from a stalker. I was a victim 4 years ago and my only reaction was freeze for several months, and me, being the biggest problem solving person, just froze for all this years and I never did a real research on ways to tackle stalking problems, asides from reaching out to the police. I’m so relieved to know that If my stalker ever comes back, I know I can find the stalker’s family, etcetc. WE’RE SO THANKFUL FOR YOU DR HONDA🙏🏽
I’m so thankful that you reacted to this show. It’s not a show I could watch without too much triggering, but your videos brought up a lot of topics that I was able to bring up to my therapist and I think really helped me in how I think about my own trauma
Before Fiona even got tracked down, I watch enough TV to kinda know this was all too perfect and some major details had to be dramatized. My theory was when the police first contacted her and she stopped coming around, that is where their true story ends. Then when she was tracked down, the first thing she said was she never slept with him and never was arrested. So that kinda backs up my theory. She maybe was arrested before Gadd, but I do wonder if they changed the real-life ending to help demonstrate how sorry he felt for her.
Yes! Often times I won't watch a show because I'm sure it'll put me in a dark place, but then I go to your channel to see if you've covered the show. It's so much easier to watch while you're analyzing
Having been in a damaging relationship with a malignant narcissist, and having dealt with a diagnosed schizophrenic stalker (thankfully briefly), as well as a charming but dangerous psychopath I was forced to flee for my life from, AND having PTSD, you'd think Baby Reindeer would have been triggering for me. I've researched the psychology, particularly behind narcissism, trying to understand what happened to me for years. But instead of being triggered by the show, I was just completely fascinated by the characters (while being blown away by the level of excellence in the acting and direction, and the amount of empathy it engendered). It's just a remarkable series. Once I started watching I could NOT stop.
And then I immediately watched the Piers Morgan/Fiona Harvey interview, which then led me here. I guess I needed this. Closure. 🙂
As someone who dealt with people who are a lot like Martha and has a history of SA, I found the show to be a major catharsis. I found Fiona’s interview to be very triggering, though. There were moments in Baby Reindeer that I found profoundly sad, but overall, it made me feel really seen and validated in my feelings and healing journey.
The show gave me a lot of closure as well, closure that I’ve been seeking for several years.
As a loner, I am the opposite of a stalker. I had two doting parents, a husband, two grown sons, 3 siblings older than me, a million cousins in my city and oodles of friends old and new all around me. Knowing I am blessed, I still forsake the company of these wonderful people in my life to spend most of my time alone. Although I lack empathy for stalkers because of the damage they do to people's psyches, emotions and life in general, I applaud anyone who has this tendency to come forward and get help.
Thank you, Dr. Honda for all your Wisdom and kindness💝
To everyone accepting their faults - I see you and love you. You are being very vulnerable and brave.
Hey there, chiming in.
I am rn at the bipolar part of the video and you are absolutely right there. I have seen rapid cycling bipolar close up (family friend) and it looks nothing like a personality disorders. There is next to no core problem revolving around abondenment and reactivity to that. Cycles are very clear even if rapid. In contrast to that when I see people with personality disorder at work the emotional reaction allmost always are clearly attributed to one or more triggers. People who suffer from narcissistic or borderline or similar personality disorders quite literally are always unstable and cannot regulate their emotion from one moment to the next in many many instances. And the covering up of unworthiness is a constant struggle for them. That is also in contrast to how I understood bipolar too. The self worth of a bipolar person is of course a big issue because of the big ups and the big lows following the cycle. But it is not about covering up an endlessly deep feeling if worthlessness with barely held together, clearly fragile grandiosity like in that case of a person with a personality doisorder. For the person with bipolar it seems to me like it is rather a constant mood for a while that is almost unstoppable and almost unmoldable by anyone from the outside.
The only way I could see how people mix up those two up is that they see strong emotions and think it must be bipolar for that reason. Or rather I can see how saying a triggering thing to a person with a personality disorder can cause them to react with intense emotions to that trigger, similarly like a person with bipolar might sometimes react aggressively to being told they have to take medicine to not "feel so happy" anymore. But that is a very specific reaction for someone telling you that your mania "is bad" when you know you will be back in the depression soon enough and you want to stay in that high.
How I would go about that is to really understand weather or not the emotional instability is rather a rhythm or a pattern.
And I think you need at least a longer time to understand which of those two it is. I think it could also be beneficial to look into this for the long run: The Understanding of the pattern of triggers can be very helpful for an understanding about a core issue of a person suffering from a personality disorder. Similar to getting to know the rhythm of the moods for a person with bipolar can be helpful to them.
I really need to look for better words to describe this myself. All I want to say is that bipolar to me too looks very different than a personality disorder and I am absolutely there with you when seeing Martha in this. Her character reacts only to the relationship aspects and revolves around this pattern of trying to put herself in a better light where you can see her suffer on the screen meanwhile. She does not look like she is enjoying her grandiosity herself and to me it looks like this thin layer that can rip at any moment and it does so many times in the show. It's just not how an agitated person during an episode of mania looks like. Maybe people see the flow of text messages that sometimes stopp and her energy drop when she stays outside his apartment as a rhythm. Like a wave that goes up and down. But it is really again not a mood out of a cycle but a reaction to him ignoring her until he doesn't anymore. Or her probably pulling away out of fear until she sees the opportunity and comes back again at it. It works well seen from a attachment point of view.
Sorry for the long text
I found that I wasn't as triggered as I used to be during the graphic scenes. I was reminded of what I went through, but I wasn't jolted into the thoughts and feelings like I usually am. This leads me to believe that I've turned a corner in my healing.
I know everyone “hates” narcissists. It’s a pretty accepted view. I appreciate you saying that the “aggressors” or “bad guys” should be heard as well, means a lot. Also, I’ve been diagnosed as Borderline Personality Disorder, but also wonder if I’m just a horrible Narcissist. So take that as you will. ❤️
I really like how Dr Honda models good mental health.
I’m not even paying attention to the emails but the way he replies and processes his thoughts, expresses his opinions. it’s really nice to see!
It reminds me to be more thoughtful with others
Dr Honda is a vibe 🙌
Thank you for your content. That show was heartbreaking to say the least yet very necessary, thank you for shedding light through your expertise and for the compassion you provide everyone with, not only victims. I've been stalked and harassed and the consequences on one's mental health are horrible, as you feel objectified and even violated somehow as the perpetrator refuses to leave you alone. Society tends to downplay it, people say it's not a big deal, yet it is along with being a symptom of the increasing lack of empathy and self awareness amongst society. The sentence you always conclude your videos with is so heartwarming, thank you a million times for that.
I passed by baby reindeer so many times and thought “I’ll save it for a rainy day.” Then I decided to slash Netflix a few weeks ago to save money. Then I started watching your videos about this… so safe to say I got Netflix last night, I watched and finished it. And can I just say IF Gadd isn’t being honest about the SA in his life, he had to have had a true victim there to write the show. Because as a survivor of SA at a relatively youngish age, growing to hate yourself; putting yourself in high risk situations almost to replicate, I felt the entirety of his emotional downfall. It was almost an identical presentation to me. This show was amazing. Thank you for making me watch this.
Awesome synopsis, thanks for helping us all debrief from that experience. What a journey, indeed.
It's interesting to note that when they met, in 2014, she was 48 and he was 25.
These videos are so helpful! I’ve also noticed that lay people and even clinicians mislabel and misunderstand bipolar at a very high rate. I often see it confused with Borderline Personality Disorder and was just explaining this to someone last week.
Y'all, go check out the the show I Am A Stalker. Pretty much none of them were able to fully admit or recognize their problematic behavior. Wild to watch
Plus they were REALLY convincing in their denial and normalising of their murderous intent. They talked about it like they were going supermarket shopping and accidentally bought the wrong brand, then got in trouble.
The second episode had me feeling sorry for the perp in prison, until I saw the video footage of him trying to kill the mother of the boy he accidentally killed. What the actual fuck.
Sorries can only make situations worse and perverse. Better if they’re called out for murderous controlling behaviours. If anyone suffered trauma it was the mother, and she didn’t turn her genuine loss onto the guy, or do drugs and then try to kill him.
These abusers are very very convincing because I don’t believe they have any real core ‘self’. They’re predatory and that’s their main function. Not connection.
@@rachellewis5016 Yes!
Another really good one is Obsession dark desires, real stalking cases.
I was abused by a Narcassist when I was younger and nobody knew what that was in my day . He would love bomb me and then Ghost me and I became very discombobulated and became very obsessive and had stalking tendencies towards it I think I was an empath with zero boundaries. Of course it's not anything like Baby Reindeer show but it was extremely embarrassing and traumatizing and took me years to overcome my shame of reacting in the way I did. It took years for me to forgive myself for hitting that type of humiliating low .And still have zero idea why i allowed myself to get there ... thank god for mental health awareness today .Looking back i feel my self esteem was very low at that point and after that never allowed myself to be treated that way again or react that way again .
I, a woman, was diagnosed with bipolar type 2. When I suggested maybe it was adhd, I was ignored. After trying tons of medications for years, I stopped therapy and went to a diagnostic center by myself, and was quickly diagnosed with severe ADD. Got put on medication, and it worked within a month. I feel like sometimes mental health professionals have their own outdated beliefs honestly.
I so agree with you on how amazing this show is. I do have to point out Richard Gadd didn’t direct it. It was directed by two women: Weronika Tofilska and Josephine Bornebusch.
I had a stalker once and I actually broke up with him literally like in the show. It was basically like watching my situation in a movie. To the exact scenes
You really know your stuff. I'm so impressed. That might sound like I think I know you know your stuff (I don't know). I love to hear explanations of how different conditions compare. I often think the human psychology is so messy that all any of us can do is guess what's going on - but you're giving definitive diagnostics. For some reason this makes me feel more hopeful (?about the human condition). Maybe, rescue is possible.
The bipolar diagnosis is only attached for billing purposes. Insurance companies will not pay for inpatient psych admissions for primary personality disorder.
It’s really terrible.
Can you do a video on Gads' character his psychological profile and His reaction to his trauma
There's a prevalent belief that bipolar disorder is emotional dysregulation. Think of the scenes where Martha would "snap" with hostility. This is what people think bipolar disorder is. It's very confusing to me too.
could you please talk more about Dony and what he went through?
I felt so bad for continuing watching Baby Reindeer because it was truly triggering due to my PTSD but I couldnt stop, I guess its just like you said: I didnt feel alone anymore.
I started going back to my psychologist because I feel like BR opened a memory box I wanted to keep on the back on my mind, dusting away and roting with time...
Thank you for making these videos Dr. K, you make a big difference in this world.
I couldn’t watch the series and had to stop watching half way through the first episode. My husband was bothered by my reaction and really wanted me to watch it with him. I’m really glad that I stopped, because she reminded me of myself, very triggering! Thanks for this!!
And that's why you need to watch it. BUT not without mental health support. You can never improve if you don't face your problems
Wow, it takes guts to admit it.
@@user-gu7kk5zk2b no one "needs" to watch it, she can get mental health support and improve her wellbeing without watching the show. Based on the wounds and triggers involved for people with personality disorders, it is more likely to be disfunctional for them to watch the show than for others to do so.
Is there a little Martha in most of us, though? Maybe, it means we're actually healthy if the series causes us to think back with extreme discomfort over times when we were a bit Martha. The full blown Marthas probably don't do that.
@@batintheattic7293 I feel like I’ve been a bit Martha 🤦🏻♀️ Donnie’s character reminded me so much of my ex husband too. I even called my ex a raccoon all the time and my cherished plushy I had growing up was a raccoon 😅 I found the show healing. It gave me closure that I’ve been seeking for years with my ex husband. It made me understand him and our relationship in a deeper way. He died but I really wish he could’ve seen the show too because I know it would’ve been healing for him as well, as a victim of SA who spent his life tormented.
Awesome video. Very professional, knowledgeable, and insightful
I am so pleased you have done this video , I have known three people with bi polar and when I heard another doctor suggest this for Martha , I didn't understand. I am grateful for you making this and clearing it up. I saw no similarities.
Your pondering about diagnostic accuracy between clinicians is something I ponder a lot as someone in the field. I'd love to hear you talk more about it
I’m so glad I found your channel.
I will just say thank you, Dr. Honda.
16:45 (bipolar) I can't comment on clinicians calling her bipolar, but I feel like bipolar is one of those terms that is just thrown around by people who think they know what it means, but they really don't. Kind of like people who casually throw around the term OCD, which I won't even get into here because I'll just get frustrated 😂
Seriously agree. People often think bipolar is just big sudden mood swings, and it's far more complicated and life altering than that. I'm not bipolar myself, but have friends who are, and what they experience is incredibly complex. It's frustrating seeing what they go through minimized to "spicy mood swings"
@@shibibi1 Exactly!
On a similar note, that is how I feel as someone who has had ocd for a long time. It doesn't feel good to have people minimize it, thinking everyone has a little bit of it and it's not so bad. Thinking I like to clean or need to have clean surroundings, am a perfectionist, or am super organized. Just silly stereotypes 😮💨
@@chrissmithz314 both me and a friend have Dermatillomania, theirs is caused by OCD, whereas mines related to years of undiagnosed autism resulting in suppressed stimming. And the amount of people who will argue that I have OCD is infuriating. I definitely have some obsessive compulsive behaviors, but multiple therapists have agreed I don't have the disorder. There's nuance that matters! For me, the picking is habitual. There's no thought behind it. My friend however can experience full blown panic attacks if they try and refrain.
I think it's a combination of things.
Some people just really arent good at their jobs, and its not like anyone hiring them is qualified enough to know that. Some people arent good at certain aspects of their job. Also i feel like the environment is really different, someone in a hospital maybe only has a limited amount of time to assess people versus long term treatment.
The 3rd email (I think, around minute 21) was so incredibly similar to me. I was always fine when it was me that was choosing to leave, but when it's the reverse... well, it's problematic. I become problematic. I've also felt the occasional twinge of insult listening to you -season 6 of love is blind was especially difficult. But you haven't been rude or insulting at all. It's just the hyperfocus on potential criticism and identifying with a character or person who is clearly the "villian" in a situation.
I wanted to add this comment because I feel it is important when talking about bipolar and other mental health diagnosis. Autism is something that is often overlooked by mental health professionals. People with autism appear to "cycle" our emotions rapidly. I am autistic, and although I do not seem to have trouble regulating my emotions on the outside i have tremendous emotional disregulation on the inside. I thought I would point this out because people with autism are often misdiagnosed with other mental health disorders, including BPD. Throw out a startling statistic, only 1 autistic person in 10 has a diagnosis over the age of 50. Since 1 in 35 people are thought to be autistic there is a massive underdiagnosis of autism, particularly in women. We seek help and never get the right diagnosis. I hope we get to the place where autism is the first thing that is eliminated as a source of mental health challenges instead of the last answer. Because we have all sorts of mental health challenges because of our different neurology and living in a world that wasn't built for us, we are overrepresented in consuming mental health services by a large margin, and if we do not have the right foundation for treatment it can actually be deleterious for our mental health. I sought therapy several times and I decided it was harming me. Now I have my diagnosis for autism I understand why. I just thought I would put this comment out for people who read through this comment section that are clinicians. PLEASE familiarize yourself with how the symptoms of autism present in highly masking autistic women, particularly intelligent ones. We do not appear like the stereotypes listed in the DSM 5
Re: the weird diagnostic suggestions, there are seemingly more terrible clinicians out there than decent ones! I had a Psychologist say she thinks I'm Bipolar not Autistic as I was sure of and had explained many time's. A few months later I was diagnosed Autisitc by two specialists. I'm certainly not Bipolar, and as a clinician nyself I can second that notion 😆 I've had many bad experiences with both seasoned supervisors and personal therapists, and have met some great ones, but the great ones are rare!! It's very troubling honestly
Hearing some things about Baby Reindeer, I initially decided not to watch it. However, I think I will watch it and skip the SA scenes completely.
As a weird lesbianTM I really do get the whole live inside someone’s chest thing so much. I’ve had my characters say things to the effect of “ I want to crack open your chest and crawl inside your ribcage and live behind your heart” to their lovers which is in a similar vein of expressing their erring toward the side of being unhinged and truly infatuated and seeking connection but obviously with an even more violent undertone than simply unzipping…..but it’s so normal to me in that it’s a mix of like….something akin to cuteness aggression, the desire to be with someone as much as you want to be them and know what it’s like to be them, some psychosexual play on the ultimate form of intimacy-not just being inside someone but Being Inside Someone-and yeah, that need to hide away from the world and be taken care of and not have to only belong to yourself anymore.
Anyway I’d be interested in your reading of Denji from chainsaw man. I doubt you read much manga but it is a really complex exploration of a character who’s very traumatized and how that’s used to manipulate and groom him and how he kind of spirals into worse situations and is almost unable to make better decisions……people tend to really hate him for how he acts or read him at a completely surface level but there’s obviously so much that’s deeper at play, but it’s still hard to fully understand and articulate. So yeah , would recommend for something to really scratch your brain with
I have Bipolar Type 2 and my brother has schizoaffective disorder with significant bipolar features.
I really don't understand the catagorising of Martha as having bipolar other than the bus stop scenes maybe. But that seems like an example of complete decompensation from the loss of attachment, than it does a depressive episode from a condition like bipolar. And I really don't see symptoms of mania at all. Like you said, it's so specific, it's kind of hard to explain to someone.
I was diagnosed BPD in my 20s and i was VERY narcissistic... that line Martha says in the canal is basically how i saw myself. I was attractive and very sexual. Turns out i was like that because of sexual abuse I'd been through as a toddler by one grandfather, then again in my teens by both him and another grandfather.
I am almost fully recovered now and sort of glad that as i am aging i am losing some of that surface attractiveness.
Thanks for discussing this topic. I personally didn’t like Baby Reindeer, but I appreciate you using it to explain complex topics
Mania: my ex making lists that were just random words, pages long. When asked to explain, every word had some long explanation but no coherent link to any other word on the list. A couple days after this, maybe a few hours sleep btw, he's angry and everything is my fault bc im not helping him or even purposely fking things up and yells for hours. Follow this up with some serious paranoid behavior and then sleep for a few days and hate me bc I don't listen.
Sounds brutal. Hope you’re getting some help with this ❤️🩹
Very good video. You explain everything so well. I have BPD and my identical twin sister has Bi Polar.
Yes, that is so true about Martha. (Fiona)
She loved him.
Her love for him manifested itself, he saw it.
But Fiona says he was nuts, lol.
Who knows what was and wasn't.
👍👍
This is so true. Thanks for your work. These people should be able to talk about their conditions with therapists though. Regular people are not equipped to deal with severe and persistent mental health problems.
@19:20 its funny you mention someone with BPD getting misdiagnosed with bipolar, cuz my husband actually got misdiagnosed with BPD when he was temporarily hospitalized (after one or two SHORT sessions 🙄). It makes me mad sometimes how quick some docs are to handing out diagnoses/meds. Later on when he started receiving regular care- that was when he got diagnosed with bipolar. To me they sound like very different symptoms tho.
Wonderful content. I so appreciate your insightful and kind interpretations. New subscriber, thanks! Cheers from DownUnder.
I think the bipolar discussion comes from the scene of Martha sitting in the bus stop in a profound depression. We never really understood where that went and there was some moments that could have looked a bit manic but nothing that clearly depicted bipolar disorder. I really enjoyed your coverage of this series.
Bipolar people are delulu when they are in their manic phase, though, not when they get depressed. Martha does not have bipolar disorder, believe me. She is a classic narc.
I loved Baby Reindeer and your commentary was so interesting, thank you Dr. Honda! Btw, the directors are Josephine Bornebusch (Swedish, yay!) and Weronika Tofilska 🙂
I didn’t know that people thought that Martha might be bipolar. I have someone close to me who is actually bipolar and this person is faaaaaar away from the things Martha exhibits.
It honestly saddens me that people seem to be willing to just throw around this term so freely like this.
I guess it can be hard to understand what mania can look like. I can just describe what I saw and noticed when that person was in a manic phase while being on a change of medication, which is also why this phase was triggered.
This person suddenly became very lively, started to be very social, hang out with friends more, generally have more energy than they usually did and do out of the blue stuff like deciding on a whim to paint the whole bathroom. Whenever they were in this phase it was also very easy for people to take advantage of them and this person wouldn’t realize that. It was a stark contrast to the depressive phase.
Honestly both phases are tough to experience, especially when you don’t know how to help that person.
I really enjoyed listening to the baby reindeer breakdowns and see that you make reaction videos to 90 day fiance etc. I like to try and understand why people act the way they do. I wonder if you would ever consider making a video explaining more about what is going on with child stars that go through major changes in personality later in life (not sure what to call it exactly) like Amanda Bynes, Britney Spears, etc. Would you ever consider doing a video explaining more about these changes? I know it may be a hard thing to do but am so curious about what may be going on and how that happens! Please consider it! Thanks
FYI, he does have some Britney vids from 2-3 years ago
@@rachelreynolds0430 thanks so much for the tip! I watched a bunch of his videos and they were really helpful. Love Dr. Honda. Still wondering (and know this is really hard to evaluate and not possible) if the effects of being a child star that everyone perceives as perfect and then grows up coupled with the intense scrutiny and sexism from the public and media contribute to a person "breaking" or developing a Personality Disorder? If they had never been child stars would this be better for their mental health in long run?
Hi From The Sky 💫
I could be off the mark with this one but maybe people are seeing the constant emails along with the nonstop talking as the signs of bipolar. I agree that I don't think that is what she has but the sending thousands of emails could lead people who are unfamiliar with bipolar to think that was a manic thing for her to do. People also seem to mistake the change in mood as being bipolar. It has unfortunately become common for people to say "your acting so bipolar" when someone has mood swings.
One reason I heard someone give against narcissistic personality disorder is the catatonic episode where she was sitting at the bus stop. Apparently, that is not something someone with NPD would do.
Have you covered breaking bad? I’m newer to your channel and really enjoy these breakdowns and that’s one I’ve always wondered about, mainly with the main character!
I wish I could sit with Dr H and episode 9. I love that movie so hard. I love Rey’s character so much. I watched it with my bro who also hated it, and explained why Rey is such an amazing character for girls who watch it. So many little touches about what I’m guessing is what the hero’s journey means to women.
I haven't seen episode 9 yet, though I like Rey as a character a lot! Just wanted to share with you the book "the heroine's journey" by Gail Carriger