NETFLIX'S “BABY REINDEER” IS A TRIGGERING MASTERPIECE BUT, BOY, IS IT BRUTAL | KennieJD
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- Опубликовано: 4 июн 2024
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TIMESTAMPS
TW and Intro 0:00
Today’s Sponsor 5:03
So many emotions 6:23
Episode 1 7:24
Episode 2 19:10
Episode 3 27:35
Episode 4 34:40
Episode 5 49:44
Episode 6 54:21
Episode 7 58:05
Final Thoughts and Aftermath 1:05:10
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Развлечения
The fact that the “fans” of this show went out of their way to find the real people the characters were based on tells me that a lot of people watched this show and genuinely did not understand it at all
Exactly.
The longer I see people react to art (and not just art but like any random comment anyone on the internet makes) the more I genuinely believe that there's a portion of people who just genuinely do not want to try to understand these things. They want to act, and say things in response, but they genuinely do not want to think about what they're responding to in any way. They want to be free to respond in any way without the burden of having to know anything at all.
exactly :/
@@twistysunshine I feel like the majority of views on art is super shallow. Too many films crique bad people/behaviors so for there to be a cult following thinking the film represents that behavior and celebrates it. It's kind of demoralizing to make deep meaningful art when this is the case. Imagine, you might accidentally cause something you worked so hard to critique happen even more.
@@twistysunshine I feel as though people do that to absolve themselves of not only being accountable for the consequences of their actions but of also confronting their capacity to also be immoral. Exploring the deeper messages a work communicates about human morality/behavior would implicate that the audience ultimately has to explore themselves. A lot of people aren't prepared to do that and are more willing to believe in the myth of absolute victims and absolute victimizers.
Quote of the century: “trauma… it be havin you doin shit”
I would buy merch with this quote lol
Fascinating that we can start having sympathy for Donny (to some degree) once we get his backstory… yet there’s people in real life we judge without knowing why they are the way they are. We could all learn to be a little kinder eh?
For real
Can confirm. It really be out here, having you doin shit.
I have huge respect for Richard Gadd. Not only did he have to reenact his harrowing real life experience of being stalked, but his sexual assault as well. I hope that there were plenty of emotional support counsellors on the set to help with any possible PTSD issues.
He didnt have to. He insisted on playing himself
@@kissit012I mean either way he still did it. It doesn’t mean that it took any less strength.
he is incredibly brave !!
@@kissit012You numbskull, that’s why she’s giving him props. It’s not easy to play yourself during a traumatic time.
@@kissit012what is the point of this comment. The original comment said nothing about him being forced
When he said 'I hated myself more than I loved her' it just awoke such a visceral response in me. Actual flood gates opened I literally had to pause and wail because it was such a jarring truthful statement that I think a lot of people unknowingly relate to. Richard Gadd honestly did a phenomenal job in unveiling the more complex emotions and thought processes of the human mind.
Also fun fact his dad teaches as a professor in my university and is genuinely one of the sweetest lecturers in my degree route.
It would be incredibly funny if you unknowingly called him 'Geoffrey' in front of his father when his name is Richard 😂
Who TF is Geoffrey? 💀 I'm sorry that killed me bro
My ex was like that. He actually said that to me. Definitely this scene made me pause and cry a little
Its even more Scottish Richard Gadd! @@cherryjumpropequeen
Geoffrey is his dad, guys.
This show is incredibly impactful. Even as a female survivor, I have never seen a more accurate representation of my own experience. The way he shows the "flaws" of how he acts out after everything with Darrien are so real for many survivors and then adds more guilt and feeling that you "deserved" it. The way these experiences eff up your brain and the way your cope by seeking out materials that depict your own experience to get pleasure from is something I did and felt so deeply ashamed of for many years. I am so glad Richard Gadd showed that, but also showed that he is very clearly a victim. There's no perfect victim, in fact most of us are flawed and that is what keeps us from coming forward.
The 'turned gay' thing got me. No SA, but my introduction and following interactions with sx were traumatizing. And my response was to cut off all avenues to that part of life. Now years later I wonder how much of my fear, disinterest and disgust for intimacy stems from that, and how much if any I would have, if my first several introductions to sx weren't so damaging. Other people say I'm ace, but I can't help but think 'Not naturally. I wouldn't be this way, if not for that". How will I ever know whats inherently me and whats a reflection of trauma? Do I deserve to be traumatized at all? Will I ever function normally on an s-ual level? And does it even matter anymore?
@ADXKAT I’m so sorry you went through that. As another survivor of SA I so completely relate to what you’ve described, and this show broke me down, too.
@impposter560 I can’t imagine how challenging that must be and feel. Sending you kind and loving energy. I hope we all find ways to get to our healthiest selves ❤
The only other piece of media that has made me feel like this was the book My Dark Vanessa. It's the same story but from the perspective of a woman being groomed by her teacher over 17 years, and the trauma that causes and what it feels like to be a survivor during the me too movement. It literally felt like reading my own mind for the entire book and I resonated with it so much as a survivor. I highly recommend it if you feel that you can stomach it, it actually really really helped me heal.
I really second My Dark Vanessa
Surprisingly, the scene that absolutely gutted me the most was the "Would you see me as less of a man?" scene with his parents. Maybe because I didn't see it coming. I had seen warnings about the assault scenes, so I had mentally prepared myself for those. Still incredibly fucked up, but didn't make me cry like that parents scene did.
Same... This scene in particular was a punch in the face for me
I made the huge mistake of watching the show on a long journey back home from a trip abroad. And I was able to keep it together until THAT SCENE. I was on a layover when I watched this scene and bawled my eyes out, trying my best to not draw any attention to me. I didn't do a very good job at hiding cause people still approached to ask if I was okay. I WAS NOT OKAY 😭
I was desolate sobbing during that and then he pulls the handshake move and I had to pause because I was laughing so hard
same. i’m a survivor too that tried to seek help in adults i trusted - my parents - and ultimately got shut down and shamed. that scene was cathartic in a way i never got to experience. that was the one moment that made me emotional
This 100% got me right in the chest
This show portrayed grooming perfectly. It portrayed the relationship between abusers and their victims perfectly - when it’s a situation where the victim is always around the abuser. It portrays self-love deficit disorder perfectly, in that you are blind to the dangerous people, like Martha. He connected to the brokenness in her.
It hits very close to home. I have told myself to stop identifying with peoples core wounds. I also have felt connected to someone who ended up abusing me because I was touch starved and starved for emotional connection as a lesbian. It’s such a vicious thing to go through
@@felisha209 I have been there! I can so relate to being touch starved and vulnerable to a skilled user/abuser. I’ve learned so much about myself and why I attracted users since then. “Vicious” is the correct word!!
Also adult on adult grooming how it's very real and traumatizing
@@jaylaclarke-carr7157 indeed.
self love deficient disorder, I never heard low self esteem phrased like that but it's a perfect way to describe it, sadly.
hey kennie baebie d ya need yer curtains hung?
Sent from my iPhon
OMG 😭😭😭
IM SCREAMING
I’m……😭😭😭
Now why would you do that 😭😭😭😅
I'm expired 😂😂😂😂😂
The more I watch the real Martha's interview, the more I'm in awe of the actress who portrays her! Mannerisms, voice, she mastered it all!!
the actress was legit terrifying, she was amazing
I hate that I wonder how the actress could get it so correct.
@@rebelks88 It’s possible that Gadd showed her some things privately, which I think I’m ok with honestly
@@rebelks88 Maybe she’s just a good actress....
I imagine Richard was at all the casting calls for her role, and that helped to choose the right person.
I was way more fascinated by the metanarrative that men are simply not taught how to be safe. Every woman in his life, including his mentally ill stalker, accurately pinpoints danger, trauma, red flags, all sorts, but toxic masculinity almost seemed to give him a feeling of safety, as well as allowing him to dismiss anything that any of the women say to their detriment.
This is a very sad truth.
that's not even the best part. the best part is that those are 2 gendered sides of the same coin that is patriarchy. Just goes to show that men don't truly benefit from patriarchy either when it's got them out here with no script for survival agaisnt other men or even the general assurance that their fears will be taken serious by *other men*. Whether thats the men you call your friends, institutions like law enforcement that were created and and run by men, or giants in your industry like dorrin who exploit and abuse anyone vulnerable they come across. Patriarchy really leaves you to fend for yourself and men are somehow supposed to be able to survive no matter what because being a man in and of itself is supposed to be enough for some reason. Patriarchy bucks over everyone yet men are still it's hostage and can't let go of it. Like how the protag can't let go of Martha or Dorrin even though he knows they're not good for him to hold onto. He holds on because they give him some sort of false masculine validation.
It's not "toxic masculinity" it's just that men know that no one cares about them as a general rule, so just on a practical level there's really nothing you can do when a woman is abusing you or anything like that. Secondly, when it comes to any relationship with women, men usually believe that everything is their fault. That tendency is maybe 5% biological, but it's 95% learned from society, from mainstream entertainment, from school, from the law, and just personal experience. Case in point, blaming "toxic masculinity" for every bad thing that happens to men as if it's our fault. The idea of just simply facing some kind of oppression is not recognized as being possible for men. Men are exempt from being oppressed, even on a small scale. It must always, somehow, be your fault. With that in mind, none of it is that baffling.
@@johannessmithensteineverything you described IS toxic masculinity. it's not that masculinity is bad, it's that patriarchy has these toxic ideas of how to be masculine. "masculine men can't cry, can't open up about their emotions, aren't SA'd." this is all the consequence of toxic masculinity and patriarchy. the point the commenter was making is that patriarchy harms men as well as women.
I will say that I was essentially raised like a young boy would be (I’m a women) and was taught absolutely nothing about danger, either. I found it out after being victimized; even when I was, it took me years to even know what happened to me. I think it’s likely more common in men, like your comment says, but is in no way exclusive. Hopefully the internet and societal progression makes it impossible for children of any gender to miss this social learning.
I'm not even ten minutes into the video yet but I just wanted to say as a male victim of sexual violence, I've never felt more represented on a show. I've had so much to do with my own undoing, chasing after people that remind me of the man who abused me when I was little. Just one example is when I was fourteen I used to live in a very impoverished area with a lot of people who weren't always in a functioning state of mind. There was this one man in particular who was staggering because he was so drunk, he called after me and said I had pretty eyes. I let myself be alone with him and I'm so thankful that he didn't do anything to me but he very well could have. I've had friends who forced me to do hard drugs, who've forced me to drink, threatened to assault me and in some cases did and I kept coming back because I was terrified of being alone with my own thoughts. I admire Richard Gadd so much and this show fucking broke my heart. I'm 17 now and in a better place, I love your videos Kennie, thank you so much for all the things you say and looking out for your fans like an older internet sister.
❤
As awful as it is that you had those experiences, I’m very glad you’re in a better place. You’re still very young and have so much of your life ahead of you. I wish you the best.
(I’m thirty years older than you, so I get to call you “very young” 😆)
I wish you the best as you continue healing. Just know that you're leagues ahead for your age ❤
You are so strong and brave. Praying you continue to heal and thrive 🙏🏾
sending love and support
as a uk babe yes the healthcare is free but the wait-list is so long and hospitals are sooo underpaid and understaffed, you'll probably die with your issues regardless
The medical situation universally just needs to be updated.
It needs to be free and fast but it's crazy that we haven't found a solution to that yet🫠
@@Karosheus I'm a UK Babe too, working in Clinical Psychology. It's well known what would be needed to reduce experiences of poor mental health but it would cost money and not be profitable for the 1% so here we are with stupidly long waiting lists and excessive workloads :/
@crownedinvictory91 It sucks that everything has to be profitable, even in countries where it's not as much of a 'known fact' that *everything* is a market (America)
They don't even pretend that we aren't worth more dead than alive.
absolutely france too. i had to make an appointment for an mri for suspected multiple sclerosis in may 2023 and just had the damn mri this year in march! insanity complete insanity
People who say this don't understand that private health has the same issues. It's only the people with a lot of money that can bypass the lines.
I hope Richard Gadd is in a healthy enough space to have people rooting around in his trauma like this. I wish him so much peace
My God i wish the absolute best for him. People are already stepping out of line i truly hope this doesn’t damage his life anymore than it already has.
@@ToscaTee yeah when Kennie said people were trying to out his abusers I got so freaked out for him. People can't just let art be art
this show drove me insane but the straw that broke the camels back was the fact that people are trying to find the people in the show? like that goes against wtf the show is about????
Basically people like Mr Beast making real life Squid Game when the show was partially scathing commentary on men like him and their manipulation of poor people who will do anything to avoid bankruptcy
@@goober479 Now if only there was a scathing commentary on his use of disabled people as content fodder, too😅
That sort of detachment/apathy that's got so prevalent with the internet bc as personal as this story is, for a lot of people it's just content or even worse, drama. People seeing a show depict invasiveness so starkly and thinking they're on the right finding out people like his stalker and such like it's data mining for video game data is sad but ultimately unsurprising.
@@impposter560🧢🚨
I love this insight. This story is an extreme example of stalking but I feel it’s become normalized as long as you’re “quiet” about it
Some viewers might misconstrue the ending scene as Donny becoming a stalker himself. But in my opinion, it's there to show that Donny didn't lead Martha on, and that his one moment of kindness led to horrifying repercussions.
I would not say that he "led her on" but he definitely indulged her at times and made the situation a lot worse, by even his own admission. I take the final scene as him understanding how a person in such a low place could be driven to extremes when faced with a true moment of kindness, when everything in your life is going wrong one kind act can feel like taking your first breath after centuries of being trapped underwater. Everyone deals with their trauma in their own ways; for him, it wasn't until he truly understood why things happened that he was able to start moving foward.
@clarissetorres7090 I agree! I'd say the term "leading them on" feels like a purposeful action. You do it consciously, solely for your benefit without remorse. Donny was chasing the feeling of validation, which he let over write his ability to fully understand how he was getting it would affect the other person.
Im not excusing his actions, but it definitely came from a place of emotional distress and ignorance. Selfish all the same, but not a apathetic, conscious selfishness.
A perfect example of how easy it is for traumatized people to fall into the cycle of continuous abusive situations and relationships.
I saw the ending as him finally understanding what it was that made Martha cling to him and fixate on him in the first place. After 2 episodes of him desperately trying to figure it out, at one of the lowest points in his life he experiences an act of kindness, someone doing for him what he did for Martha and he finally has a moment of understanding
I can't bring myself to watch the show, but I saw that part and I read it kind of as a realization, an "Oh. That was all I did. That was all it TOOK"
@@briannarex2941 I think you're right, it's a very humanising moment of showing that while Martha takes things to an extreme, she certainly isn't unrelatable to Donny or in general. It's easy to write her off as just crazy, but you can see especially in this moment the void in her life that the stalking fills.
I dont think he became a new stalker, I think he cried because he finally understood Martha, and the kindness he showed to her was like salvation to her, just like the owner of the bar is being kind to him now, so he can finally break the cycle of abuse and start to heal (btw great video like always)
This comment i feel interprets the end of the story in a more conclusive way than I was thinking about it before. To essentially reiterate what you said it’s nice how we get to see this realization with his head coming up that sort of ties the story together full circle; he essentially saws Martha for what she felt in that moment, and similar to how he was searching for sexual experiences to try to make sense of his sexual assault, this analogous experience with Martha helps him make conclude the mystery that was figuring out Martha, and opens up the path for healing. I know you essentially said the same thing but it was helpful for me to put it in my own words
@reggievelvet glad to help you in some way :) english is not my first language, but im happy that you understand
@@arianaccr9401 I couldn’t even tell that youre not a native speaker, u seem to be very fluent
@@reggievelvet thank you, i try to do my best
And I think that this interaction made him write Martha with compassion. He could easily have turned her into the villian.
This show was so smart because it presents you with a very unlikeable character and then screeches to a halt, looks you in the eye and asks: Did I deserve it? When did I stop deserving it? Did Martha deserve what I did to her? And many other soul wrenching questions. I found it very honest.
I don't think Donny was unlikeable at all. He was flawed, but certainly not unlikeable.
@@4nn4h i really did not like him in those first few episodes 😆 i said mr man you better be taking this somewhere
@@ruliakI agree I didn’t like him that much in the beginning but the 4th episode put his reactions and thoughts into better perspective.
@@sasslexis0126 oh absolutely. It really challenged that perception i had of him.
@@ruliakwhy didn’t you like him? Me and my sister liked him from the start
i’ve seen many comments (not on this vid) about how they couldn’t see donny as a victim because he lead martha on / encouraged it at some points. it’s a very reductive take of the whole series, especially since it deals so heavily with the nuances of abuse and “being the victim”.
From what I'm hearing about this show is that it's really good at breaking down the 'perfect victim' mindset a lot of people have around victims of SA. He shouldn't have led Martha on but we can clearly see why he acts like that. People go on and on about how abuse affects how you interact with other people and a lot of abused people gravitate around abusive people until that shit actually happens. Like it doesn't shy away from the fact that it was a shitty and dangerous thing to do but it really makes you sit and confront if you think someone deserves to be treated like that regardless.
it's really sad how some people have to have things be in black and white. if they are not a perfect innocent victim in the right place at the wrong time, nobody will take their assault seriously. if a victim doesn't appear to be a sacrificial lamb, everyone will tear them to shreds.... it's so sad and disgusting
That's how they are with most victims. It like you have to audience to be a worthy victim before you can get any compassion. For other ppl its a fear response. If I point out some reason that person was a victim its something I do not do so I'm safe.
People have this misconceived notion that victims have to be good people. They don't. Being a victim does not equate to being a good person. There are terrible people out there who are also victims. Their doing those bad things while also being a victim doesn't excuse any of the bad things they did, but it also doesn't erase the bad things done to them. People aren't perfect, so there are no perfect victims.
Honestly, i wish Richard could say his piece without ACTIVELY harming the fat community
Thats why i cant take it seriously because he literally is pushing fat stereotypes
This reminds me of when people were talking about how lesbian relationships have the highest rates of domestic violence and that being a talking point against women. I looked into it and read an article talking about how women feel more comfortable reporting abuse and knowing how to spot it while men don’t. Part of the article was a man talking about his ex boyfriend keeping him hostage in a bedroom and assaulting him for many days and when he got out he didn’t even think he was a victim of something. He also spoke about how when he would try to report or speak about what happened he would be assumed to have been the abuser looking for remorse. The patriarchy affects men in awful ways which this show expresses very well.
That horrible, wow
That study is actually very faulty because it didn't just include lesbians, it included bisexual/pansexual women too who were being abused by men. I'm not saying that queer loneliness doesn't affect how we stay in abusive relationships, but that lesbians don't have the highest rates, just any woman with a man would
Also, its important to note that in the study that phrase references, it only asks if lesbians have experienced domestic violence before. It doesn't ask about the gender of the perpetrator, and considering many lesbians date men before they discover they are lesbians, they often experience DV at the hands on men. There's an important convo to be had about what your talking about too, I def agree that men need to be taught abt DV as well, but I felt the need to clarify since the previous sentiment bc its often parroted despite being misleading.
This show emotionally destroyed me.
I watched it twice.
Same, gearing up for my third rewatch with my brother
I’m honestly scared to rewatch because it was such a harrowing experience the first time 😭😭
44444W4 44w44
I recommend I May Destroy You by Michaela Coel its very similar and written and based on her life too
I yelled went he went back to Darien… what an ending man
The worst part about the whole 'butt hole incident' is that he never sent that. His coworkers did when he complained about her.
In regards to therapy in the uk: the free mental health services are SHOCKINGLY bad so more people choose to get private therapy if they can afford it.
Mental health is the same in US.
I watched Baby Reindeer thinking I was going to get a thriller, possibly a dark comedy, about a stalker. What I got was a very intense view of how trauma affects people. The drama surrounding how much of it is fictionalized is WILD. I hate how everyone is focusing on who and what the Martha character did, and not the Darrien character. If this guy is still out there victimizing people, he should be exposed. Where are you on that one, Piers Morgan?
Donnie's Dad is 100 percent the best character. I hate his friends at the bar.
THIS!
Gonna be completely honest when me and my sister learned some of it was dramatised we did and still don’t know what to believe of what he has said. We feel for him, but we don’t know how much we should or if we should. Maybe it’s cause I read the word dramatised it made me feel icky about the whole thing cause of something else. (The Jeffery Dahamer show that is on Netflix that was also dramatised, meaning it added stuff that just wasn’t there at all and lying. It’s hard to believe a true story that has been dramatised)
@@41052 well, people on the internet tracked down the real Martha and her portrayal in the show is eerily similar so that already increased my belief. Also, the term "dramatization" doesn't mean that lies were added into there, it just means that it is being depicted in play or movie form and involves the creative production that comes with it (directing, soundtracks, actors, etc). Like, if you search the definition of dramatization, it literally states "the process of presenting a particular incident in a play or movie."
@@bunsbuns9072 I looked more into it and some stuff is just made up in the show, don’t know what is, but yeah. Not sure how much to believe. Like one example would be him going to sleep with Martha, or the whole breakdown he had. I do believe some things probably did happen, but I am also not sure how much I should believe. I don’t want to be one of those people who are loud about their hesitation to believe but I also don’t want to be naive and believe things that didn’t happen.
@@41052The scene were he sleeps w/Martha & then sleeps w/Terry? I thought that moment was a fantasy, part of his imagination to get him worked up to sleep w/Terry. What breakdown are you referring to? The one during his stage performance for that comedic festival? I've seen the actual performance that was based off of. Yeah the tone & emotion wasn't as intense but it still happened.
I came across a lot of ppl on another review vid who were aggressive in their opinion of the whole show being a lie just because some moments were fictionalized. Like, its a show of course some things are gonna be added to beef it up for entertainment purposes but that doesn't mean he wasn't assaulted & stalked by 2 individuals. That his life wasn't drastically changed because of something someone did. I haven't watched all his interviews so idk what moments were real or fake. At the end of the day tho, it's a show & whether or not you have sympathy for the lead is the main takeaway.
i think that a huge barrier in respecting these issues comes with the premise of the "perfect victim" that this show breaks down very well. I'm glad the show was so candid about the reciprocated obsession that Donnie has with his stalker, because i had a stalker in the past and this honestly helped me feel Not Crazy when it affected me.
People like to think there's only ever sympathetic victims and anyone whose not an innocent baby reindeer of a person isn't worthy of sympathy and therefore isn't a victim. Look into how society reacts to harm coming to the most vulnerable people. Theres not a lot of public outcry for sex workers (esspecially trans and/or of color) that turn up missing or dead. Theres not a lot of public attention on impoverished elderly people living in squaller etc
The truth is that having an unpleasant personality doesn't mean you're not someone else's victim. Just because you're off putting doesn't mean you're not deserving of sympathy and grace. Just because you're a man doesn't mean you have an innate ability to detter unwanted attention from a woman. just because youre a victim doesn't mean you can't have sympathy for your abuser while wanting the abuse to stop.
the truth is that you shouldn't reserve your sympathy and compassion for people you find likeable or relatable. Because those things have nothing to do with vulnerability to victimization and people you don't like or can't relate to are still deserving of sympathetic and compassionate attention. And collective society-institution wide neglect of these individuals is what drives their mental health lower and lower.
its been soooo disappointing to see a lot of people online talk about this show like these aren't real people. They talk about it like it's all a joke especially how they speak about martha.
Someone wrote a huge comment about how the show really helped them come to terms with some things and they hoped that Richard gadd is doing well..someone else literally replied omg you know it's a show right..he isn't affected by acting 🙄🤦♀️
Seeing the amount of people with negative intelligence & compassion makes me wanna gouge my eyes out. Media literacy 📉📉📉
Its literaly so fatphboic
The show discourse just harms the fat community so much
to me the ending kinda says "hey look, it literally could have been anyone. had anyone else been nice to her that day, it wouldn't have been me. i wasn't special. and it was never about me in the first place."
That’s a great way of looking at it. Thank you for sharing this ❤️
100%🤍
i think it at least shows some major character development that since he wrote the show, he writes lots of his behaviors like wanting to hide teri as negative, so he clearly has changed and is holding himself accountable for that.
i think it was one of those situations where one core issue affects every aspect of someone’s life, but when they address that issue everything else falls into place. i struggle with eating in front of people because i was abused as a child. my abuse had nothing to do with food, but the paralyzing fear of vulnerability is evident in a lot of my actions. and i think self hatred works similarly.
@@juu0n it also shows that just because someone is doing something bad, you shouldn’t automatically assume they’re an evil person incapable of change or redemption, which it seems lots of people feel. like how much of his discomfort around teri was caused by the not yet unpacked feelings of shame around his sexuality caused by being abused? if you saw someone like that and didn’t know the context they’d seem like a horrible person, but if you take a step back and understand why you could probably genuinely change their mind.
@@ilovebooksandmycats669 This doesn't mean that they can use their trauma as an excuse to be a shit person, that you have to forgive them, or even tolerate them. Remember.
@@DylonsBBGorl
if you tell people that no matter what they do they will never be viewed differently or redeemed, that’s a great way to keep them stuck where they’re at.
what’s the point in arguing against transphobia if people changing their positions doesn’t make a difference to you? if they’re still viewed as bad even after they move over on the issue?
if you have this mindset, unless the individual person has individually harmed you, i genuinely think you just care more about *looking* like the better person then actually having real change to better peoples lives be made.
i also really appreciated that he allowed the narrative to build and progress in a way that showed him negatively at first. and he also writes terri(?) to be rational and compassionate.
The line where his dad says he grew up in the Catholic Church just absolutely gutted me. S/A from religious figures is sadly a very common thing (especially in Catholic circles) and to some degree Donnie saw the man who assaulted him as an almost holy figure. He and his father went through the exact same situation, inflicted by people who had that same amount of power over them
Generational trauma is real ugh
yeah & the way that he just had to say that. just "i grew up in the catholic church" no explanation needed, at least not for people in the audience who did too.
This is legit such a well written and important show. Big respect as well to Richard Gadd to not only speak about these terrible experiences but also to basically relive them through filming the scenes I mean damn. Also I legit bawled my eyes out when his dad spoke up as well. I found that particularly touching and powerful
Yeah that like 5 second clip of his dad going "would you think less of me?" made me immediately cry 😢
When you went on your rant about Donny and Terri and how he's not doing any trans people favors i was dying. As a trans person thanks for the fierce defense it made me happy and also laugh
I came to the comment section to say this!
also like.. i understand why Donny did it but it didnt make it right and i hated him for it (Teri is amazing)
One of the many things I'm loved about Baby Reindeer is that after the show dropped. The number of male victims calling for help actually went up.
I saw the stage version of Baby Reindeer which Richard Gadd performed as a one-man show at the Bush Theatre in London in 2019. One of the most haunting experiences I’ve ever had at the theatre. So thrilled that he’s getting all the attention he deserves as a talented storyteller!
It's so weird how many ppl do not know this started as a one man show. I seen ppl complaining that Richard was playing the main character. WTH.
Everybody talking about Martha but F Darrein
Exactly! A groomer, a predator, with a wide reach and power to protect him. But he’s a man so let’s focus on Martha?
F Darrein
F Darrein
Exactly! He’s the true villain of the story!
Damn, he was excavating the actions of his abusers to figure out why they chose him to be their victim.
It’s extremely common. I still find myself doing from time to time, years later.
I had a stalker once. I cannot explain the gut wrenching feeling you’d get when they get a hold of your phone, socials, your personal information and they are countless messages of treats of hurting your loved ones. Whether they mean it or not but it inflicts a fear and paranoia. I couldn’t shake it off for 2 years after AND the frustration you feel with the police in this show is the EXACTLY what I encountered.
The feeling of being invaded is unlike any other fear. It’s very specific.
Im so sorry you went through that.
This show goes to show how so many structures are in place socially that shame victims into repetitive cycles of self-hate and isolation while abusers get to just go on about their day as if nothing has happened. It’s sad but oftentimes you have to pick up your own pieces and try to find ways to make life fit so you don’t fall apart and hurt your loved ones.
But what do you do when your loved ones don’t understand your pain and can’t show up for you? Baby Reindeer really touched on how little shame and pity does for people trying to navigate abuse.
I’m a survivor and I’m kind of triggered at how angry and frustrated she seems at the victim… I feel like the experience of being in this position is so much more nuanced than how it’s discussed here… does it improve?🙈
@tluvsbeauty1 i agree...
"Men's trauma is perpetuated by a lack of intervention" = nail on the head
I think one thing that this show did especially well was how it dealt with the unattainable concept of "the perfect victim". It can be so hard to accept that your experiences are valid, even if you have done many illogical things that you blame yourself for, like not realizing things sooner or making "mistakes" that can seem so obvious in hindsight. I don't think this has been shown enough in media, at least as well as how Richard Gadd portrayed his own experience in Baby Reindeer. People often expect victims to have acted in a certain way in order to deserve public sympathy, and it completely disregards how manipulative the abusers can be.
A lot of my friends stopped watching because "no way this could happen to someone"...
This show resonated with me because I've been through almost the EXACT same thing... hearing people completely shove it aside because "it's unrealistic" felt like a punch to the gut💀
"Bootyhole" by Kennie J.D. needs to be released on all music platforms STAT!!!
Someone from Scotland here! Technically you could get referred for councilling on the nhs or maybe some cbt at a push? But you’ll be on a massive waiting list for a round of like six sessions? Probably would have to pay and go private to get regular therapy.
Yeah, my cousin is on a waiting list for a year but I was able to get seen in like 2 weeks because I get insurance from work
It's so raw and honest and shows how SA can happen in such a grey area that's really complicated. And that complexity can make the situation very confusing for the victim and hard for other people to take seriously.
I'm scared that this show might give me PTSD but everyone is talking about it...
Edit: I have now watched it. I actually feel seen. When I was SAed I kept going back to the offender and felt so crazy and alone after I thought about my reaction to it. Seeing that someone reacted similarly makes me feel not crazy.
Made me have more compassion & understanding for those who do this.
14:17 I think the whole point was to show that he wasn’t the perfect victim. And that’s why no matter what happens or what that lady says I’ll always believe him because he was so raw and vulnerable and showed him making mistakes. I respect him and his story so much.
This series was f'n wild! And the fact that it's based on a true story is even crazier. I didn't watch it because it was good. I watched it because I couldn't not watch it.
Have you seen the interview that the real life « martha » (fiona) did ?
@@Teamlexiie1 I HAVENT!
@@Nygnotyogf girl look it up it’s crazy. The actress that played her is insanely good. What you see IS what’s to get.
donny's relationship w his ex's mom is also interesting, in the way that she somewhat needs him in her life because of him appearing around the time she lost her son. she's kind of an anti-martha figure, both of them used him as a comfort in their life because of trauma or circumstances that had nothing to do with him and both cases benefitted him or his ego somehow.
at the end when he starts missing martha and goes back to darren (2 people who in some way preyed on his need for attention and love), he's also reclaiming his needed-ness, his feeling of playing an important role in the mom's life when he wears the yellow jacket. (also nice touch from costuming how he never wore anything like that so its more visible.)
just like he said in his monologue, his sadness and self-hate becomes a fly trap for weirdos, these situations mirror and recreate themselves because both parties need something from the other.
The hardest part of the show is watching Donny make those gut twisting choices, but also understanding them and empathizing with them. Trauma does weird shit to you and makes you do weird things and I’m so glad Richard Gadd took the time to write out his story and share it with all of us!
Unperfect victim is a great way to just encapsulate the show. Really hurt my heart that went over some people's heads. Even some videos of people saying he's not a victim because of the actions he did. However everyone I know whose fell victim to those type of " situations " subsequently act out of trauma whether it's trying to prove that you're not a victim or what have you. Truly a very powerful piece of the human experience even more powerful that it's coming from a man in the conversations we don't have about men and their mental health and being victims of SA
I was just so impressed with how honest Richard Gadd was when it came to telling the full truth about how he handled the situation and how he felt through it. Its so easy to paint yourself as infallible, especially in a case like this, because I imagine you don't want to give any reason as to how you might have "deserved" what happened to you. But, he was pretty brutally honest as to how he mishandled things and his true feelings and reactions throughout. Like, for example, he didn't even paint himself as some amazing comedian which he could have easily done. I just really appreciated it.
i think people don't understand this is exactly what trauma is - somehow, those things in your past will come back up in the present. cycles and reenactments of your worst fears can make survivors of trauma feel calmer. sometimes because it's familiar, sometimes because they think they deserve it, sometimes because they don't know that things can be better. it's not just common, it's a defining characteristic of trauma and PTSD (as well as any adverse childhood experiences - this is part of why we have attachment styles). reenactment is part of the healing, and noticing that you're doing it is such a huge step in living a healthier life. you haven't retroactively made yourself "tainted" enough to deserve what happened to you by engaging with it.
The video and many of the comments I’ve seen make it very clear that many ppl don’t understand abuse and complex trauma:(
27:32 Another reason he ghosts Teri on the train is because earlier she mentioned that sleeping with someone with a fake identity is against the law, which def added to his anxiety on top of his insecurity of being seen with her
"sleeping with someone with a fake identity is against the law" - wait what!? Really, catfishing is illegal in the UK?
When he whimpers no or stop i cried. I wish i could've muster the strength to even do that.
As someone who was targeted online love bombed and emotionally abused - I wish my abuser had gotten help before he ever met me. It would have prevented it.
No shit, really?? I'm sorry but is that not the most obvious statement ever 💀
@@cherryjumpropequeen why do you have to be so rude about it?
@@cherryjumpropequeen some people lack common sense. This may seem obvious but some people need to hear it, sadly
@@cherryjumpropequeen not everyone has had the realization that sometimes, therapy would be beneficial for the abusers as well. not everyone knows that sometimes these abusers don't know what they're doing is harmful because their previous experiences made it all seem healthy and normal. not everyone knows that sometimes the abuser's behavior is because of undiagnosed and untreated mental illness. shouldn't all of this be common sense? maybe... but you have to remember that not everyone knows they've been abused. sometimes they're too young during the time of abuse to have such a nuanced realization. sometimes they're just trying to SURVIVE the ongoing abuse, so they aren't going to be thinking about how their abuser feels. sometimes people only have these realizations when they're trying to heal, which may not always happen immediately. it may take YEARS.
so you shaming someone, let alone a survivor, is rude and unnecessary. please be more mindful of other people in the future.
@@cherryjumpropequeen why would you say this? Like genuinely WHY would you type this out?
Another series that deals with self-loathing, depression, anxiety and generally several mental health issues, is *Bojack* *Horseman* . It's EXTREMELY heavy at times (probably the most depressing show I've ever watched) but it's 100% worth watching if you can stomach it. It tought me a lot and unexpectedly healed wounds I didn't even know I had lol. Totally recommend!
PS. Make sure to get through the 1st season, which is kinda mid, and then you'll get to experience one of the best shows ever imho. Top10 no doubt.
The episode where he monologs over his mother's funeral hit me like a truck. You watch him fuck up over and over again and even then, all he can do is talk about himself because he's so wadded up in self hatred. It starts similarly to baby reindeer, making you think it's going to be a straight comedy but it just gets so real. It's one of my favorite shows
The episode where he monologs over his mother's funeral hit me like a truck. You watch him fuck up over and over again and even then, all he can do is talk about himself because he's so wadded up in self hatred. It starts similarly to baby reindeer, making you think it's going to be a straight comedy but it just gets so real. It's one of my favorite shows
@@nat9527 I. See. You.
I only found out this was all based on a true story a few days after I finished watching it, because people found the real ‘Martha’ . That was such a wild realisation to me. I’m not sure I could have finished watching it if I knew it was based on true events. Especially after that awful grape scene.
i think this shows how much healing and reflecting richard gadd has done; he fully understands how his abuser groomed him and how it impacted his life and dynamic with others, especially martha. i hope he’s doing well now and has been to therapy despite all the thinking he’s done
Definitely thought this was going to be "'You' but make it British". It was decidedly not that. But very powerful and I'm glad I watched it.
Something you brought up made me think of something.
Him being a flawed person is yet another example of how police and/or the public want you to be the “perfect victim” to be taken seriously.
Women are put in a position to not be believed anyways, but gosh darn it, if they make a few mistakes, they will not be believed even more because they aren’t a “perfect victim”.
It seemed that is what they were putting on Donny as well.
Survivors need to be believed and hate that movies like gone girl or the freaking Amber Heard case makes it even harder for them to believed.
Say it louder for the ppl in the back🤍
This show was so hard to consume but I couldn't fucking stop.
So complex, so visceral, so cathartic, so very well done.
It was honestly refreshing to see someone who wasn’t the ‘perfect victim’ but also draining af because people are not shy about their hatred of them. Also yes in Scotland the mental health services are free but wait times are agonising and the help is usually pretty basic stuff you’ve already figured out on your own, granted a lot of this is probably due to the fact the nhs is so underfunded while also overworking everyone
This show was absolutely amazing and honestly needed!! I'm annoyed at how a lot of people online are treating the show and investigating who the characters are based on (but I kind of expected it especially since it grew popular on tiktok). I'm so glad you've finally watched it😭😭😭😭
I was not ready to see that "Do you see me as less of a man?" scene again 😭😭😭😭
It was so refreshing to see another abuse survivor be so honest about their experience especially regarding the disconcerting comfort you take in your abuser’s validation. The dichotomy of wishing to be far away from every disgusting and violent memory yet feeling a sense of guilt due to a fondness developed out of the deeply rooted warped thinking implanted in the survivors mind my the abuser to continue the tragic cycle.
Kennies accent impersonations are always perfect 😭
The line about being more in love with his self hatred got me in the back of the head. It reminded me of an ex I had who at the time I did not had such extensive trauma, came and told me about it several years later. We dated in high school and 2 more times after. I truly was in love him but after the third time I was done. I was the emotional stability for him and for the first time he lashed out at me. Some time later he told me the extent of his trauma during the time we knew each other through high school. It was tragic, so very tragic. It explained his self destructive behaviours but it dawned on me that he told me this information not his current gf, me, why? I realized at that moment: 1.I am still someone he emotionally trusts and 2. He needs therapy, not a gf.
Truly that line in this show had me back in that moment.
The dad yelling like that down the phone is the most aggressively Scottish thing I’ve ever seen.
I think a lot of people have accepted abusive behavior in exchange of validation and this man’s experience is just another example of that… crazy, that I to an extent can relate to him 😪
Me after every episode: “Therapy is way cheaper than what you’re doing!”
Kennie on Wednesday??? 😮 Yes, please. 😊 Thank you for watching for me. I just couldn't.
I didn't take the 'this is a true story' part too seriously. I thought that was just a narrative device. Only when this Fiona woman started going off in the media did I learn that it was based on true events. Even then i didn't feel the need to go sleuthing or think that it needed to have documentary levels of veracity
I honestly hate how social media is treating this show (delving into the real people when the creator asked them not to)
@@cherrybombrose3532 yeah i thought we were past that, we were media literate enough to tell the difference between a documentary and a fictionalized retelling of true events. I am astounded by some of the comments i am seeing online. Like if she didn't assault him next to the canal and she never went to prison then none of it could be real 💀
I knew something wasn’t right Darrien the moment he opened his mouth. His voice tone was so calm and creepy and he just felt off. I guess the actor did his job right
Yes, the actor nailed it. I literally felt it through the screen in my body within a few seconds.
I’m an emotionally sensitive and overly empathetic person by nature so the second time I watched this I don’t think I ever stopped crying/ having watery eyes. Just knowing how I felt about Donny the first watch before actually knowing him and his situation I had guilt paired with my feelings of empathy. In my first watch the thing that made me cry the hardest was the scene with the father hugging him and understanding. Then in the second watch any time I saw Martha or I saw Donny spiraling towards square one I got unreasonably emotional or that pit in my stomach feeling. What a watch!
You can get 12 Free CBT Sessions on the NHS but, the waiting list is ridiculous long 😊
Since we're waiting on the premier… STREAM CAVITY!!! It's one of her best songs and an absolute bop. Listened to it so many times
It’s crazy the whole transphobic aspect with Terri went right over my head. I didn’t understand that it was a trans dating sight, and interpreted his secretiveness and him hiding from his stalker
But you understand that it's shown as a bad thing right? Like he's getting over his transphobia in the show. It's part of learning to be a better person and accept himself. Doesn't excuse the behaviour, but the show never shows it as good or normal or right.
This show made me feel everything and nothingness at the same time…
I cannot watch this show so I’m doing it through Kennie instead. GOD SPEED
I'm trans and I'm very happy that Donny in the show was depicted with those flaws(of lowkey being a chaser/ not wanting him to be seen with a woman bc shes trans) because we need to talk about that more and make a safer space for trans people period
Because I am not trans idk 100% but i think this is a good depiction where they shows the realistics things that can happens. He couldve make himself seems like a saint where he is 100% not transphobic or whatever but some people got a little bit of transphobia in them even if they think they are not.
This show reminds me of I May Destroy You. Messy, heartbreaking, and really well made.
hey saying this guy encouraged his stalker by not turning her down and leading her on is extremely victim blame-y and just what the police in the show did, and in the show itself it's shown that she wont stop no matter what he says.
You can't lead a stalker on because they make up their own reality were everything you do is leading them on anyways
I am honestly so triggered by this part of the video and all the comments agreeing…🥺 it feels like everyone totally missed the point. Straight up victim blaming.
@@tluvsbeauty1 Yeah I also looked for a while and I didn't see anyone not agreeing. If you're interested Amanda the Jedi did a video about this show and hers was way better because she really understood the situation (Unfortunately because of real life experience)
as an american living in the uk, it is still difficult to get therapy here. the nhs waitlist for therapy is long as fuck from what i’ve heard from my friends, and private therapy is completely unaffordable for the majority of people in the uk
Did anyone else get “Diddy Vibes” with the Darion and Donny. I’m sure that’s EXACTLY what Diddy did to trap his artists.
Yes finally more people who enjoy "The rizzness" by Taemin istg only the best people get it
This is such a hard watch I completely did NOT expect you to review it but thanks for the nice surprise! Bridgerton is also coming out today, such a treat!!
Show made me cry my eyes out! Happy to know the main character is doing better irl!
craziest way i’ve ever heard edinburgh pronounced
Right??? Like where did that come from😅
I was trying to figure out what she was trying to say 😂
@@pandakissy fair, I just assumed it was endinburgh fringe bc they do comedy
After I watched the first three episodes, I tweeted my complete frustration with Donny making EVERY SINGLE WRONG CHOICE EVER. But after watching the rest, I went and deleted it. So many layers to this one.
I couldn't finish this show because it was too hard to watch. I really wanted to know how the story resolved though so I'm so happy you made this video!!
i LOVED this show. i wept at the scene when he broke down in front of the audience. he captures so well what it feels like to be an "imperfect victim". you know you've made choices that would cast doubt on your trauma and it makes you wonder if the trauma was even real. were you really assaulted? was it just a dream? did you just imagine it? did you ask for it? did you want it? so you stay quiet. you put it in a jar, tuck it away, and let it ferment. everyone in the room can smell the stench of it but no one knows where it comes from so they assume it's just you. you are the stench and you believe them. you've buried the jar so deep inside you that it becomes you.
Honestly how garbage laws are around stalking world wide pisses me off so much. That whole the "the police can't help you with your stalker until you're dead" thing just makes me so so mad. I will never not be mad about it.
I mean yeah Donny isn't a "perfect" victim but who is, no one deserves to be stalked though.
The queen feeds us yet again 😌
Have you seen the women who’s is allegedly the real life Martha did an interview with Piers Morgan ? It’s crazy cuz there’s so many contradictions in her story it makes me feel like I’m watching season 2, but also I feel like especially if this women is the real one given that she’s clearly mentally unwell they should have never let her get on national tv
Now she’s bashing Piers Morgan as well (which honestly, go off 😅) Terrible people them both
Piers Morgan would have anybody on if it would get him attention, he has absolutely no interest in whether or not it's ethical
@@cherrybombrose3532 heartwarming: the two worst people you know are fighting
She now want to sue him for a million dollars. Serve him right. Hate how it changes the whole message of the show & is now focused on Fiona aka Martha.
Saw this show in one afternoon and oh boy i was sad the rest of the day
That’s the only way I could describe how the show made me feel for days after. It just made me sad.
The fact that people are ragging on gadd for being vulnerable and open really is ironic
"I wish you could find a little bit of self-love, so that you can discover a reality that doesn't hurt like this" that was a really impactful statement for me right now. tysm for that and also for the way you covered this show in general.
Theres something really victim blaming about her thought process about his self hate. Yes, he contributes but the only one who decides to SA someone is the person commiting the act
@@katc2040 I can agree with this comment. It's tough territory to tread as someone reviewing the show like Kennie, because you can tell that the creator of the show himself wanted to explore the dynamic he had with his stalker and other attacker and wanted to explore the feelings of guilt he had associated with both the attack inflicted upon him and his relationships with the people who victimized him, especially his stalker who you can tell he has empathy for. I think Kennie was trying to validate his feelings but it came across as agreeing with his feelings of guilt/agreeing that he holds blame at certain points. The reason that the quote i commented on struck a chord with me in particular was half me projecting stuff from my own life and half my interpretation that what she meant by that in part was that if he could try to let go of his feelings of not only self-hate but of undeserved guilt, he could live a less painful life. I definitely can see how your interpretation makes sense though.
I have never hated a piece of art that I also loved so much at the same time. This show was so good. The emotional honesty was so raw.
I just....don't feel bad for Martha. Even tho she suffered an unstable household as a child. She's acting like a maniac, stalking people like that.
Kennie, love your content but while therapy is “free” in the UK it is nigh on impossible to get. Just for context but I’ve been on a waiting list with severe mental health issues for almost 4 years with absolutely no support. It’s ass over here and a working class person is not going to have access to help - at least not when you actually need it. Not angry by the remark but it’s incredibly hard.
As much as I love you and this channel and think that you brilliantly and empathetically summed up the show, your pronunciation of 'Edinburgh' was upsetting. 😂
thank you for covering this, I was not mentally able to see it through so it was really comforting to have you guide me :)