Baby Reindeer & Narcissism (Chapter 2)
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- Опубликовано: 29 апр 2024
- Dr Kirk reacts to Baby Reindeer (Netflix, 2024) and discusses narcissistic personality disorder, abuse, sadism, psychopathy, and abuse.
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Trigger Warning: This episode may include topics such as assault, trauma, and discrimination. If necessary, listeners are encouraged to refrain from listening and care for their safety and well-being.
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Attorney here: In order to get a restraining order, judges often want to see a history of clearly saying 'no' to the stalker. This is often very hard for the stalked to do, as many victims don't feel safe enough to communicate a boundary in any way. But victims should know that a clearly written 'do not contact me again under any circumstances' message can go very far in proving that the victim was not consenting to any further contact. Writing it down is also often less intimidating than saying that in person. If you are safe enough to do so, communicating that in writing helps you establish your rights in court. I am so, so, so, sorry for any victims of such behavior and I am especially sorry the law often does not adequately protect victims.
(I see the irony of saying I'm an attorney underneath a video about a stalker who is a fake lawyer 🤣)
You have given us some good advice, thank you.
Yes, true!!! Officers have told me to say or type via text: "I have no desire to be associated with you. Stop contacting me, or I will call the police." Not doing that gives the stalker plausible deny-ability.
When it comes to street harassment I take a picture of the person or vehicle license plate and say "I've got your picture, leave me alone or I'm calling 911.
There’s a streamer I watch that had this happen. Her stalker had erotomania and the police were like “well did you tell him to stop”? I was surprised by that but at the time she hadn’t because he was scary from his very first message
@@legzfalloffgirl5148 I am so, so, so sorry you have had those experiences and am sending internet hugs! I just wish less people have had to go through this.
Hm… 🤔 that’s exactly what a FAKE lawyer would say, lol (joking) 😝
Jessica Gunning, actress who plays Martha, did a magnificent job.
Oh yes she is so good
I remember being a bartender, so many lonely people become fixated you and think because you’re friendly and nice that there’s a deeper connection. Can be scary especially as a woman.
Oooo chile 😮💨
Yeah same but I’m a guy. Sometimes women think they can get away with doing very creepy/inappropriate things to a guy.
So true.
When I got into management positions, I tried to provide training and support for staff on how to spot it, set boundaries and support each other when it happens. Because whether you are male or female, it's not a question of if but when you'll get someone with an attachment.
Now not all are scary. Some are just draining or annoying.
It's such a weird dynamic. You rely on regulars but you also need to be able to do your job without fear.
Yes, very scary! That was not a job for me, horrible time.
“Chronic unassertiveness due to childhood trauma” YES!! Thank you for putting words to that!!!
Is that my problem? Even when I try to be assertive - I’m not heard ! It’s weird!
I've found not being assertive, is a genetic trait, not necessarily due to childhood trauma.
@@margaretr5701 oh totally! It definitely can be! But I definitely feel what Dr Honda said about my situation!!
My brother 😢 and me to an extent
Me too.
I think it’s fascinating that he is playing himself and was able to make this show.. it’s very vulnerable and I appreciate him for telling this story.
I can’t believe the how he mentally could do some of these scenes! I wonder if having performed it repeatedly through his “one man show” helped him desensitize himself to repeating the trauma?
@@jfudge5 Maybe he's had a lot of therapy since it happened
I imagine it was a bit cathartic as a performance artist. I'm a writer and I've often had people say, "I can't believe you could write about this dark stuff like this," but frankly, I couldn't NOT write a lot of if.
@@FiestyKikiprobably
It makes it even better. And sadder.
Him having her on Facebook was so relatable. I experienced a SA a few years ago and I remember I didn't block the guy on social media and kept talking to him and my friends and family where like "wtf is wrong with you??". What they didn't understand is that keeping in contact meant I knew where he was what what he was doing at all times and wasn't going to randomly turn up at my house or work. It meant I would know if he was angry at me and wanted to stop me from reporting him or if he felt like I wasn't going to be a problem. It helped me sleep at night to know what was happening with him. Yes it was hard to know he still had access to me, but going no contact was so much worse because then you're afraid of every shadow and it's like living in a horror movie waiting for a jump scare.
I'm sorry you went through that. Thanks for sharing your experience 🙏
Yes thank you. Was trying to explain this to my partner in couples therapy about an ex partner. It’s almost like he takes it personally and he cannot understand that pretending you don’t see the shark doesn’t mean it’s not swimming in the water next to you, trust me you want to be able to see the shark.
This.
I set a lot of my posts to friends except _____.
But I'd rather know more about him, have access to his friend list and keep tabs.
Plus as I learned with another FB stalker. To get a restraining order, I had to have an address so he could be served.
I've removed 2 guys who assaulted me from my social medias after I realized that what they did was actual r*pe. I didn't block them tho. Well, they both sent me multiple requests on different social medias over the years, until I finally blocked them.
So I guess it show how removing them doesn't make them respect your boundaries. You keeping them on your socials is valid and it makes sense. ❤
Im so sorry. My sister was SA'd by a guy on a second dated and then they went out for like 6 months. I thought about that as i was watching this show because i couldn't comprehend it at the time. Now i think i understand better even if it still breaks my heart
Those London working class lads were spot on not a bit exaggerated.
The actress's face when he "breaks up" with her is unbelievable ("oh no, oh no"). I don't know how she managed to portray at the same time the emotion of being so happy that he is validating her delusion while also being sad and crying inside the world of the delusion. Incredible acting
I wonder if it’s cultural not believing the friend characters are real or they are exaggerated because I’m British in the South East and lad culture is exactly like this. Unrelenting banter is just a way of life. They are not good friends but they would 100% refer to themselves as ‘mates’ not friends cos friends might be too ‘close’ or ‘gay’ for this type of ‘lad’.
This is common in the states as well. This is exactly how many of the men I know would react to the information that an unattractive overweight older woman was “madly in love” with someone who clearly didn’t have any mutual feelings. It’s a joke to them. Especially as men, they are less able to empathize with a fear of physical harm, let alone emotional. Even more so back about 8-10 years ago when the dialogue surrounding all of this was NOT common, let alone popular. Now people are more used to hearing these conversations, even if they might not understand or respect it. To me it seemed like the bar guys weren’t processing what was being said to them, let alone trying to understand it. And yes, the “that’s gay” thing.
Totally agree with this comment and I also live in the UK!
100% and it’s so sad to see men repress their sensitivity
We do love banter but some of people can never switch it off 🤦♀️
Same. I thought they were super realistic. Im Norwegian, but everyone who had ever been to a pub knows what happens if there is more than one brit there. There will be banter and humiliations from the mates
I think the reason the two friend characters don’t feel real to you is you aren’t privy to these kinds of people regularly irl. I live in a small misogynistic town in the UK and there are many many men exactly like that. It’s tempting to even say most men where I live are like that.
I feel jealous that Dr. Honda probably doesn’t know about UK football bros
Yeah, I feel that too, here in the UK.
Thank you for pointing that out. Dr Honda’s belief that they’re not believable means he’s lucky he’s never encountered people like these two guys he quaintly refers to as D bags. There are female equivalents too unfortunately.
There’s a version of them where I am too, when he said he felt like they were cartoons I thought oh he’s lucky enough not to have to be around these types of people, cause they do exist, and they are cartoonish lol
Not just the UK. Those are fairly basic bros.
It’s funny hearing Dr Honda describe the “cartoonish” quality of the bartender-friends because I thought they were actually pretty realistic. I swear I’ve interacted with plenty of guys who are exactly like that. A lot of my exes’ friends behaved that way, which clearly gives me something to reflect on more deeply
They reminded me too much of people I have worked with in the bar biz.
However, the tone with which they were written or maybe how it was directed/written and edited definitely was a bit of a tone change. I thought it showed how his life was compartmentalized and his experience of them as comic relief/characters in his story. Much like his gap year flat mates.
People so far removed from what he was going through internally that it's like they are in a different type of show.
@@theConquerersMama that’s a great point. I think it’s also an interesting reflection of what Dr Honda talked about that he was so craving human connection that he was willing to deal with people who he wasn’t actually comfortable with.
They felt exactly like the callous peers who cannot fathom the enormity of your fear to the point that they think it’s a silly joke. Or worse, they look down on you for being affected.
Pretty sure he hid his name because he was questioning his sexuality and was ashamed of dating a trans woman, it's depicted pretty clearly. At this time he wasn't taking precautions online bc of Martha.
30:17 I was looking for this comment. His fake identity on dating profile was about his being uncomfortable with his sexuality and exploring that without truly putting himself out there.
That’s what I recall him saying too
I am curious about this also! I wish Dr Honda would’ve talked about it!!
that's exactly how i interpreted it, too. especially considering that scene on the train!
I was thinking the same thing.
Love that you mentioned the irony of the internet wanting names - just like the scene with Martha, all against his wishes.
All in all, wonderful explanation on the behavior of the characters
That should be some Kind of meme actually
Thanks, Annie!
Yes and they even started harassing a woman for being overweight. Because she “looks like Martha”. They’re more like Martha themselves!
@@Babesinthewood97that is sad to hear. Some people …smh 😒
The scene when he goes to Darrien’s house w his script and he’s clearly so excited and then slowly realizes that that’s not why he invited him over is utterly heartbreaking. Like I’m tearing up even typing about it. Darrien absolutely enraged me and those scenes were so hard to watch.
I almost stopped watching after episode 4. Had to take a breather because it was hard to get through.
Me too, and I usually have thick skin. This was hard to watch
That’s why I think this series was so important because I think it opens your eyes to just how this stuff happens in entertainment industries. It’s one thing to read about or listen to someone talk about it but to watch it…It almost happened to me multiple times when I was really young and wanted to be a singer. There are people (mainly men) just waiting to take advantage of you constantly. It’s disgusting.
@@yemio1005, very important, and not just the entertainment industry. Startups are another area ripe with ego and entitlement in leadership.
It was horrible. And think there really are Darriens walking among us.
Imagine writing, directing and acting in a series re-enacting your deepest traumas. I can’t even imagine how that would feel 💔
A lot of people are asking if HE is the narcissist! 😅
I expect it's therapeutic to get the trauma out of his head, and into something tangible.
Perhaps seeing other traumatised people, responding in acknowledgement and sympathy, is healing to him.
@@margaretr5701I was thinking the same it's maybe also safer to reenact trauma in this way. Control over your story
I'm thinking how he must feel with fans tracking then down, dredging the whole thing up again.
I think he might have a plan, in the sense that while he has said ‘don’t try to guess who Darien is’, if someone came to him privately and said ‘I was assaulted by someone very similar, was it X by any chance?’ And if enough people come forward they would have a strong case to take him down, like Harvey Weinstein. It’s a clever way of going ‘public’ without facing a lawsuit
I was a bartender for 5 years when I was younger. Watching these reactions has been so incredibly eye opening and helpful. Ive never thought about how traumatic people like Martha were while bartending. You just keep smiling and waiting for the tip while some of the regulars develop entire relationships with you based on fleeting smiles or jokes. Looking back I was really enjoying all the attention and would encourage it as well. Until one guy took it seriously and started stalking me. He didn’t send me messages like this, after professing his love for me, and me turning him down, he only drove by my house and sat outside my work staring at me for hours multiple times a day and it didn’t go past that. My plot twist was that he was dating my sister in law. This was 12 years ago and they are still together. The sister just thinks I lied about everything. 😅
Omg… your SIL doesn’t believe you? WOW 🤯😮💨
That is horrifying!
That's crazy!!!
More disturbing is the fact in your country your wages are that bad you had to flirt to get your wages up. 😢
@@maryamvalley9525smiling at someone is not flirting.
I def thought this was serial killer-y at first but your explanation reminded me of when I was a nanny to a child who had been through significant trauma. She would cry hysterically when I was leaving to go home each day no matter what I tried. When I did research I learned a trick from an attachment specialist where I would pretend to shrink her and have her climb in my mouth before I left. It was very silly like “Okay, it’s time for me to go so you need to shrink down and climb in!” We would both laugh and I would pretend to eat her in one big bite. Somehow it helped her process because she wouldn’t cry as much and would say in a tiny silly voice “Now little me is with you till tomorrow.” 🥹
This alone makes me see Martha so differently.
😭 That is the sweetest thing.
Not the traumatized child of course, but that you thought to do that & did it! I hope they still remember & think of it fondly.
Wow.
This show depicts the slow erosion of boundaries. That's what narcs do--work out what your boundaries are and test them, pushing harder and harder every time, while maintaining plausible deniability. They like to make you uncomfortable.
I think it's less about making you feel uncomfortable but just looking at you as a kind of object thing they have ownership and entitlement over... Your boundaries and needs don't matter as much as theirs. But totally super scary and violating way to treat others
It happened to me. 35-40 years b4 she went too far. Not a romance - she was my hairdresser/running buddy.
@@adimeter wild. This is why I'm grateful that the narcs in my life tend to be really bad ones--they show their cards way too early. There's still damage, but at least they're not around long enough to ruin my entire life. 😬
@@tinywalnut6337 That narc showed her cards early on. But I was in such a fog from early childhood trauma and didn't know the first thing about boundaries. I had to get into therapy to learn I should, could and must have boundaries. Even at 71 yrs old I never thought I was worthy of enforcing them. I'm happy for you.
Dr. Honda I appreciate you normalizing Martha’s remark about wanting to tuck herself away inside others. I understood exactly what she meant when she said that. I also felt the show was well written, because of that. You see the humanity in Martha even though she behaves in ways we may not deem as socially appropriate and clearly does need some help.
I never saw it this was till this video’s take on it, and your comment saying how it does a lot to humanize her. So glad I got this insight on that important moment in the show that I didn’t really get
I totally got what she meant to - she’s asking for relational safety in the most primal and infantile sense, bc she never ever got it.
When I was a little girl I was stalked by a grown man who would pop up on the corner on my way to school, in the grocery store, it was a nightmare. They're in your head even when they are not physically there.
I believe you. I'm sorry. I hope you heal and stay safe. A convicted child molester/ kidnapper followed me home every day in his truck, from the bus stop, when I was in elementary school. He stopped climbing the trees by my windows at night, when my father h wrapped the branches in barbed wire. Then he came back and climbed the trees in daylight so he could avoid the barbed wire. He stayed out of our trees after my mom fired a gun at him. She's a good shot, and missed, on purpose, it was a warning shot. He stayed out of our trees after that.He still stalked me, when I was outside, until he went to prison for life.
@@apizza4990and why didn't you all report him??!!!! He had to damage someone else...
Thank you for communicating how scary it is to be stalked, even if you aren’t overtly threatened. That feeling that you don’t know what they might do. That constant worry of them turning up. It’s terrifying. The guy who stalked me passed away, but I still get a moment of terror if I’m out somewhere and I see someone who reminds me of him.
Thank you for sharing how you felt, I can’t imagine feeling like that way even after the persons passed away. It really must be terrifying.
I was stalked by my covert narcissist ex too, I'm still struggling with the trauma over a decade later.
I relate. I never felt directly afraid of harm, but was still in a constant state of terror and hypervigilance. Its very hard to understand and explain to ppl who haven’t experienced it.
I know it’s been mentioned that it seems like they were written well, but his friends in the bar were really accurate to the kind of British banter ‘Jack the lad’ personalities you get. Honestly typical british type of guys you get here in the pubs
That scene of "I want names" reminded me of my first therapist. I was 13 and didn't realize her yelling and punishing me for not sharing all the details of my trauma wasn't normal. She yelled as I curled up into a ball with my heart beating fast and couldn't open my eyes. The next time I spend the whole session telling her that she's a fraud and I no longer trust her. Her eyes turned dark and scary. She calmly told me I could leave at any time, so I did.
Today I wondered if I made up the details at a time of fear and panic, but after looking up her practice, she really has no light in her eyes and her attempt to smile is a smirk. No place for clients to leave a review, unlike other psychologists. Too bad, I wanted to read what other clients had to say.
That’s incredible that you were able to stand up for yourself like that at 13. Good for you! ❤
I’m so sorry you were ever in that situation at all, that is absolutely horrible. I’m so in awe of your bravery 💗
There are bad people and narcissists in the mental health profession.
Just recently had this experience. Left me extremely shaken.
Scary xxx
2:04 I'm dealing with this rn. I have a stalker, he even got a job where I worked and he lives in the same apartment community that I live in. He hasn't done anything overt but he continued to try to ask me out, called/messaged me outside of work hours supposedly about work... leaving notes on my car... being at my car with his dog when I come home from work etc...
It's terrifying. This explanation is so so accurate for why I feel so threatened and scared by this behavior. I have made it plain I am not interested but the pursual continues. Thank you Dr for explaining it so well. It makes me feel very validated especially with people in my life telling me to calm down. He's just trying to be " nice. "
Pls move far far away from him and cut off any means of contact he can use to locate you cos with this psychos you never can tell. One’s life is more precious than any nice job or nice house and best believe with time your life will go back to how it used to be just without the stalker in it
Report all of his past, current and future behavior. Get a no stalking order, be sure to tell the judge about him moving there to your building to stalk you, and have her put the exact number of feet he can not come near you. Have the judge say, he can not live in your building or with in x miles of you, and is not to see you or come into contact with you any where at any time, and if he does, he must leave. This will evict him from your building. You should also move. And be very very careful that he does not find out your new address.
Holy sht, girl, that’s criminal! All you said he does is already extreme!! Report him now!!!
Read The Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker, a security professional who works with celebrities who are being stalked
Sounds like you might benefit from writing the letter, make a copy, dated, and I think you may want to report it soon if the letter doesn't work. Get expert advice, counseling by a specialist? Good luck!
I feel for you. 🌷
PS. I'm assuming you haven't had legal recourse yet.
I think the entire show highlights how trauma plants a seed that we then unknowingly and unwillingly end up re enacting in these different ways. Ways that seem unrelated, but are. You dont realise when you're in it, but once you're out of it and you look back, then you see how your behaviour, your self view, your core wounds impacted the events following.
Its not in a victim blaming way, its just a realistic portrayal of trauma and its impact on a humans life.
I went through SA+ DV, in one case i was stalked for 4 years. So for me watching this it made me feel like i could breathe. Someone else is talking about how abuse leads to further abuse, which leads to a long term damaged self view that leads to self abuse. The cycle runs deep until you're able to get out of it entirely for a good period of time, get support, go through therapy etc.
Strangely, I disclosed my own past SA committed by my mother - perhaps only a couple weeks before Baby Reindeer came out. When I saw Gadd’s character, I was immediately struck with just how similar he is to myself. Down to an absolute T. It felt uncanny. Listening to your analysis, it’s also brought up a memory I had of a rape by my past girlfriend on me, about 10 years ago. I too froze, had an erection (although no orgasm). I didn’t see it as a rape, or didn’t want to define it as so, until hearing what you had to say about the scene on the canal. Said girlfriend serially cheated on me and eventually, after years, I snapped and I ended up in a physical altercation with her. I’ve hated myself for years over this and somehow, completely forgot that just before the cheating came out, the rape had happened. All the feelings of shame and resentment have just come spilling out again. So I thank you for that, because I’m able to see where that shame came from, and also where my angry reaction came from all those years ago. I wasn’t abusive myself, just hurting and backed into a corner.
I’ve never known how to set boundaries, I feel totally spineless and let others control me, use me, and as a result, I don’t think anyone has any respect for me.
My whole life has been a series of coping mechanisms and avoidance. Drugs and isolation. A lot of creativity in there too and many friends, but none that I could sustain, as I’m terrified of taking up any emotional real estate in anyone’s life. I’d rather starve to death than ask anyone for some change to buy food when times have been hard.
Since my disclosure, I’ve slowly been learning to blame myself less. Thanks for the video, it came at the perfect time for me, as did this drama.
Just stumbled across your channel and you have a new subscriber. Once upon a time I wanted to be a psychologist and have a degree in the field, but always felt I was too messed up to pursue it as a career.
Martha is so complex and the way Jessica Gunning portrays her is nothing short of masterful. You just feel so many emorions for her theoughout the show; ranging from empathy and pity, to anger and disgust.
Hmm, I had a very different reading of the Teri scene. I didnt think he was afraid to share his personal information because of Martha, but because he was ashamed of dating a trans woman. This is pretty on-the-nose for "chasers", which frankly I think Donny kind of is. The way he treats Teri throughout the show made me sick...
You are right and it‘s not interpretation, but actually „canon“. He starts dating Teri before Martha appears. And he explains the pseudonyms etc. when he talks about the assault and that it triggered a sexual identity crisis.
Definitely. And while I think he does have feelings for Teri, he has some blurring of a genuine like and attraction and this way of using her as a comfy way to sort his sexuality. Which honestly if she knew this, she might want out. He’s not exactly attracted to her as a woman, he’s attracted to her for being a feminine palatable way for him to explore his desire to have homosexual sex. He’s got some really complex stuff going on. Which is also common among SA victims to have confusing desires surrounding the acts committed. Can I take back ownership? Can I rewrite the experience to not be SA but something I wanted or chose?
I had the same interpretation and he basically says as much. He also says it in an article about the show
I think that was the case & Kirk misunderstood.
Agreed, the way he treated Teri was horrible, she deserved better than that.
As a chronic people-pleaser and un-assertive person, Dr K's commentary really hits home. When I was younger, I was constantly lying because I didn't want to make people feel bad. Now that I'm 38, I am a little bit better at saying no, but establishing boundaries is still so hard, and I too crumble if pushed. Now I know what to work on when I get back to therapy!
You mentioned not thinking the owners of the pub as believable characters, but one of them actually reminded me of a guy I used to know that owned a pub that I sometimes went into 😆 I’m in the UK, so maybe that’s why and maybe their behaviour was not what your used to I’m not sure
Yep. As someone who's spend pretty much my whole teens to mid 20s working and drinking in pubs in the UK. These men feel very real to me. I've known many of them over the years, and although I believe there is hidden depth to them, its certainly not available to the average person they interact with
Cultural traits are exhibited differently, but the equals to the 'pub men', can be found in most societies.
I'm glad you pointed out how subtle it can be and how there's often nothing to point to. The chilling feeling you get when someone is not respecting even the smallest boundaries. I once worked with a person like that who made me feel uncomfortable on a daily basis but there was nothing I could take to HR and complain about. It was just lots of little things that added up to a general creepy feeling that made me want to be as far away from them as possible. But I had to work in a team with them. I also suffer from "chronic unassertiveness" and I seem to always get targeted by these types of people
You gave me a way to “empathize” for lack of a better work with a narcissist. I wish psychology was slowly taught to us in school in age appropriate ways. That way people would be able to look at a person with a mental illness snd know when or how to help them and when to walk away.
I agree narcissism should be taught. That teaching along with how to create and maintain healthy boundaries would go a long way. Oh, and being taught how to say NO and mean it.
I just have to tell you how much I appreciate you having watched the series before commenting. I find it so much more helpful and meaningful to hear your thoughts when you see the whole picture first. Bravo, sir! 😊
Much better!
Always so grateful for the compassion and nuance you offer these conversations
Would he give the same compassion if Martha was a man and Donny was a woman? I think not.
@@Bambino-gk1dithis doesn’t even make sense. Dr. Honda frequently spotlights male victims of abuse as you can clearly see in this video…. Not only that he frequently provides empathy towards abusers of both genders even when that perspective is not popular. Big Ed from 90 day was extremely abusive towards Liz, exhibiting coercive and at times stalker behavior towards Liz and still Dr. Honda has an objective view towards him. Get a clue and then take that clue and go troll somebody else.
I‘m diagnosed with BPD and the scene where Martha describes how she wishes that humans had a zip so she could „tuck herself away“ really reminded me of how I wished that I could just fuse with my favorite person. Not exactly like Martha describes it, more like a yearning to just exist for and through them. A very intense yearning for a safe and unbreakable connection. And when that relationship broke, it threw me in a pit that I somehow never really left. Instead I completely disconnected myself from what I felt like who I was.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Yessss to everything you said.
This is such an accurate, sensitive and all-round brilliant explanation of the complexity of the dynamics of stalking. Having been stalked by my ex-husband, I can relate to such a lot of what you're talking about. I saw the red flags early on, and tried to leave him very early in our relationship (pre-stalking, obviously) and he got really intense with his crying and declarations of undying love.
I remember being really disturbed by it, but I ended up staying with him and later marrying him because I didn't have the assertiveness skills to extract myself from that situation. I was scared then of what he might do, so it felt safer to appease him.
One of the things that really resonsted with me was your analysis of the scene where Martha attacks Terri. You describe the relief that can be felt when an abuser becomes violent because they're finally showing their true colours.
I had this exact experience when, during his final in-person abusive episode, my then husband tried to throw me out of a moving vehicle before threatening to drive me off a cliff. I remember thinking, 'oh, so this isn't all me blowing things out of proportion'. It was the wake up call I needed and I left for good three days later. He had only over been verbally and emotionally abusive before that point.
After I keft him, the stalking began. He'd drive 17 miles at night to park outside the place where I was staying and post letters through the door, text incessantly and even posted 30 pages of rambling pleading and apology interspersed with death threats on a forum. I cannot describe the feeling if horror every time my phone notified me a text had come through. You talk about the psychological fear that comes with incessant, unwanted communication in your first video. It's real. I still hate phone notifications going and have it set to silent.
Thanks so much for this review. Even after 13 years out, and a heck of a lot of therapy later, I'm still gaining deeper insights from what you're saying.
I was stalked and I still get triggered by this kind of stuff. It messed with my mind so much.
😢 give yourself time to heal, just let it flow through your body, emotions like water come and go come and go.
I’m so sorry 😢 It’s happened to me too. I didn’t watch the show, I still get triggered as well. Dr. Honda’s empathy and understanding in these episodes is very good for me though. Hope it is for you too.
@@tkhachi Yes for sure. He is very helpful. 🙂
@@meli7315 thank you 🙏💛
Thank you for this insight into the show! I think the film Misery did a good job too of showing the abuser’s feelings of nothingness and sadness.
26:28 I lived and worked in London. The banter there is brutal. Those characters are believable, unfortunately.
you were describing the part of London where I did my undergraduate education (Uni of Westminster) around the corner from Baker Street tube station where you & Stacie must have stayed. That was trippy.. to me you guys are so far away that it was weird you knew the roads I know. lol. Thanks also. This is so brilliant to have a reaction to Baby Reindeer... thoroughly enjoying it. Cheers!
Huge fan of your channel and this show hooked me too!! I must say - love that you watched all episodes then reacted, helps a bunch that you have all the data before analyzing & conceptualizing rather than reflecting based on each scene. What a great show! Keep it up Dr Honda ❤
Im SO stoked these are coming quickly!!!
I hate that people are trying to figure it out and making false accusations. People suck and are thoughtless and heartless. They don't give a damn. Just want their answers - like a witch hunt. Disgusting behaviour, sending death threats, etc.
What about his abuser's other potencjal victims?
False allegations do not help the potential victims.
@@theConquerersMama The question is why is Richard Gadd hiding the real abuser? Was the real guy punished/reported? He never said that.
42:30
I haven’t seen anyone else talk about this SA scene. So I appreciate you pointing out that it is SA.
A lot of people are still indoctrinated to believe men cannot be SA’d especially by women. And compared to the other SA in the show it’s easy for people to not even consider this scene.
And also that you are talking about how it is normal for your body to react to SA in ways that are opposite of how your mind feels. I have heard stories from many people talking about the shame they feel & how they feel like their body betrayed them.
I wish everyone who needed it could watch this show & your reactions to it.
Thank you for clarifying how to set boundaries and not feel ashamed for getting firm with stalkers!!!! It really shed some light on things for me. I still have to learn that I have the right to set boundaries. Noone has told me this!
OMG say that again!!! Never heard that in my life. In my family system it would not have been tolerated.
Side note, but I so loved hearing you say the names of places in my city! A crossover I never knew I needed 😂
Knowing a number of people who have diagnosed personality disorders, NPD as well (whom I love dearly btw, I think there is way too much misunderstanding with personality disorders. I know people with them that I would argue are kinder than most neurotypical people just based on actions) what I kept thinking watching this show was that Donny's character seemed to just have a bottomless need for narcissistic supply. Which it definitely isn't uncommon for people in entertainment industry to have NPD traits, and everything is a spectrum. So many things in the show seemed to point to this - all the chances he gave Martha, how much he enjoyed letting her go on about how wonderful he was while he was at work, how he'd miss her (or that supply) when it wasn't there, and how Darrien even seemed to notice his need for that as well and preyed on it. When he would get him high he would go on about how talented and wonderful he is. And despite the pain it was causing, he kept going back, just like with some situations with Martha. It didn't matter how much harm he was doing to himself for it. I am very much not a doctor, but I viewed this dynamic honestly as two mental health issues that came together in a very dangerous and fucked up way. Creating this terrible situation.
I felt like I was the only person who sensed a bit of narcissism in Donny - which I do want to be clear, I do NOT think any mental health condition makes you a bad person or deserving of any of this kind of treatment. Plus so many disorders have overlapping traits.
Thank you for saying this. Personality disorders get a lot of rep and we're often written off before someone gets to know us.
I used to work as a cashier in retailers and often customers would get fixated on me and felt like a sitting duck. If I walked away from register I could be fired. I took bus home and sometimes these people would be on the bus. I angered a volunteer who harassed me and I reported it ot police but it only escalated the abuse. I retired but now 5 later I still find evidence she is trying to get even. She continues to defame my character. What you say about that emptiness is so true of this woman. Her life seems so empty she still keeps trying to find ways to bring people pain.
God I wish the family court would get on board. Expecting to coparent with someone who is like the Martha character is impossible.
I appreciate that he doesn’t vilify narcissists as some other professionals do. Certainly narcissists can do a lot of damage and are extremely hard to deal with, some can have downright evil behaviors, but it is human to realize they were also victims and hence why they are the way they are now, and it sounds to me that it is a horrible disorder to suffer from.
Oh!! The pure joy when you post!!!!🎉
Also: So glad you watched all the episodes before you made the reaction videos!
Thanks!
Can you expand on how you would therapeutically manage a client who falls in love with you as a therapist. And how it would differ if you were a woman.
The validation these episodes gave me.. you described and explained every delulu thought experience and action i ever had and did as a survivor of years and years of this.. thank you.. really❤ and having NO selfesteem.. thats a place no one wants to be
So glad that you decided to make a video about baby reindeer. As a survivor and social worker, this show felt so grounded in its depiction. I've seen them so much in my personal and professional experience
I’m a victim of stalking. He knows where I live and work. He knows my car and even my friends. I’m not feeling safe so I called the police in November, they warned him and he stopped only for 3 months; he started to stalk me again in March so the police warned him again.
It is not a nice feeling at all. It is so worrying.
Hi, I have watched the whole story and what stuck out for me is the ability of the narcissist to identify vulnerabilities very distinctly in others, Martha recognising in Donny that he had been hurt and zoning in on that although not necessarily initially for the purpose of manipulation or control but just a desperate need to find common ground and connection with another human, did eventually become a way for her to find his weakness and benefit from it. This is not unusual in my personal experience of a relationship with someone with NPD. Finding his vulnerability was a way for her to create imaginary bonds with her source. I also feel that Donny has a fragmented sense of self and identity, the way he behaves with Terri is by mirroring them. Their confidence and bold attitude becomes his adopted character. He is a chameleon. There is no uncomplicated unsullied character in this story. It was painful to watch, frustrating yes, but I agree it has been incredibly valuable. I just hope that no one, in real life, is harmed in its making
I once went through something similar with a person who I never considered a stalker, but the more I watch this, the more I realize he was a stalker. I just felt like that’s how some men are bc they don’t take rejection well, and I also blamed myself for not being assertive enough. It is hard for me to make someone feel bad. I have “led people on” just bc I don’t want to hurt them. But then it gets to a point where you have no choice, and I let it go on too long so that then he felt entitled to show up at my work and find excuses to see me.
I wasn’t able to watch the show. His inability to help himsef was too much for me to watch I found myself yelling at the screen “Just tell her to fuck off!” Love Dr. Honda’s take on it though!
I respect your perspective and thank you for sharing. TBH I often feel the same way when I reflect on my own actions.
I think that's part of what your supposed to feel. I think we all felt like that at some point watching it, but I think that is also the point. From the outside it looks absurd that he wouldn't just do that, but we also get to find out why through the series. And that to me made it more fascinating to watch. So I guess it was part of the process
I usually feel this when I watch shows that don't make their internal logic clear or realistic. With this show I was surprised afterwards that I didn't feel that at any point because it was too relatable probably. The only scene where I was frustrated was when he didn't open up about his sexual issues to his gf, even though it was hurting her, which made realise how uncommon it is for me to not be frustrated during the whole show haha.
@@l.l.8731that's what I felt throughout most of the show. I was yelling JUST STOP ENABLING MARTHA!! TELL YOUR GF WHATS GOING ON!! then I calmed down 😅😅
I couldn't watch it beyond a couple of episodes. I have been kind and helpful towards a certain person for many years. I noticed that she could be very rude and obnoxious towards me and my family. She brought a little dog that messed on our carpet and yapped uncontrolled till my husband stopped it. I was expected to bring the little dog water and bring her sandwiches and wine. Waiting on her hand and foot. Then when it was time to go home she burst into years begging me to let her spend the night. Now my husband refuses to have this lady and her dog at our home. Even when her husband died I thought maybe she could come over. I did take her ready meals bought dog food. We also gave her money. Each month she would phone for money. Her situation was really bleak as she is getting too old to work. She is in terrible financial need. But the requests for money becoming far more frequent untill I began shouting at her that we ourselves are pensioners having to downstate. I feel quite bad because I've hardly ever lost my temper with anyone.
The actress playing Martha is FANTASTIC, but the age gap scene makes zero sense with this casting. She looks younger than he does (to me,) and the actress is just 3 years older than he is.
Also, as someone mentioned above, he doesn’t lie about his identity on the website to keep himself protected from Martha, he was experiencing some shame around transphobia and so he lied.
I am super glad you are covering this show, but also that you’re skipping over the really hard to watch scenes.
I got the same impression regarding the reason he lied on the site.
I think in the storyline (and real life), he's mid-20s and she's 42/43 and I wonder if he wrote it in because he used that excuse in real life at the time.
@@mariyamakyes! I actually think its important to know that Richard is playing himself from 10 years ago. So he looks older but he was abused by 'Darien' and 'Martha' in his early to mid 20s. He was so young and vulnerable in that stage of his life and it's important to remember that.
Did you pay attention to the show?
Yay!!! So happy you’re continuing with this show Dr. Honda 😊
I remember being kinda angry at donny. He couldve been straight forward and honest, he couldve protected terri before she was viciously attacked. He never reported her for being violent towards the women in his life. The level of cowardice he displayed that put others and himself in danger, just made me angry.
Same. I felt bad for him but I was also very frustrated with him a lot of times
If Donny was a woman you would not be angry at him. The only reason you are so angry at Donny is because you invalidate the traumas of men.
That’s what so good about the story though. No victim is a perfect victim in real life. I was frustrated too & kept yelling at my tv & then I remembered that this is a true story.
@@Bambino-gk1di I would still be angry if it was a woman? Why would you just assume that about me? I still really feel for donny. I've been in a very similar situation.
@Bambino-gk1di the anger I feel comes from knowing something could be done, and he just doesn't. I understand where he comes from. I think even Richard gadd is upset with himself, as I was. The point of the show is to feel his frustration and that same level of feeling trapped and the consequences that come from that. He also went through a recent extremely traumatic event that he handled In a very unhealthy way. That's why it's getting the praise that it is. Because it's dark but truthful. This is how victims react often. My anger I felt was mostly on donnys behalf. It's called having empathy
Analysis of Martha's psychology is facinating, especially the moments her defenses are broken. I always thought Martha had a BPD outlook. I think, in Crazy ex Girlfriend, Rebecca stalks Josh. It could be nice if there was a comparison. That show is about BPD.
Also, I think there are many details to be seen in the second watch. For example, Donny is insecure of his sexuaity, he feels like a less of a man, so in the pub, he doesn't reject Martha because he thinjs it's not manly. Also, I think, at first he is impressed with the famous people Martha claims to represent. That might be a draw.
I hope we get to see other parts of Martha's life if there is ever a second season.
Yeah, since Dr. Honda usually equates BPD with persuing and NPD with distancing a NPD lens for Martha seems a little odd to me. If anything, I might think historinic since she likes making up and exaggerating her grandosity.
@samanthas8340 I thought of her grandiose behaviours as HPD too. Also, she doesn't seem to have a fake self that she feeds. I know she says she is a lawyer, and has famous clients, but that's to take Donny's attention. I think someone with NPD would demand some kind of special treatment that would validate that identity (supply). Someone in the comments said this, but I also thought Donny is the one who is on NPD spectrum. In a sense, he friends Martha on FB because she stalked successful people in the past, and now she's stalking him, which makes him successful. I think Donny has a weak version of a fake self to feed through Martha, and he thinks that's the reason he fell victim to Darian. But, I'm a layman, I would enjoy hearing about why all this is wrong.
I agree… I see Donny as more NPD than Martha x
I actually appreciated the characterization of the two friends at the bar and how it felt disjointed. To me it seemed like that was the point... To highlight the sense of isolation that often accompanies these experiences and how surreal it can be to interact with people who don't know about or understand what we've been through and the impact it's having on us. Certainly, I have felt this way myself many times when I've shared something with someone and the response is so outside of the realm of anything I expected that it takes me aback.
Thank you for continuing with the series!
Hi there! So the real "Martha" has come out and did an interview with Piers Morgan on RUclips, and it would be so interesting to hear your thoughts on the interview!
I appreciate so much that Dr. Honda shares and understands what the implications are of being stalked covertly(*?) by means that make it harder to prove hard stalking. It can make you feel crazy, unsafe. and obsessive about the issue. The concerns you mentioned that likely run through the minds of the stalker and the person being stalked in spot on…somehow these concerns are unclear to a lot of people.
There are people who don't know how to differentiate being nice and giving attraction. I saw a lot of comments from other video saying customers would ask numbers to baristas or clerks at convenient stores because they gave them a smile during work.
Or a guy thought this girl liked him, but being "hard to get" because she lended him a book at school. She had to ask her older brother to pick her up after because that guy was always around her.
50:23 when you say she apparently doesn’t have a substance problem to turn to - her substance is junk food and overeating for her escape it appears
What an amazing work you're doing here. Your take on the show is illuminating, and the way you talk about personality disorders and other psychological ideas is refreshing, especially in the congested world of RUclips psychologists/ self-proclaimed psychology gurus. Thank you!
The SA scene is really well done. I work with many male SA survivors, and freezing is so common! Us who are born female at birth typically get "talks" about SA and not being alone with males, not wearing revealing clothing, dont walk alone at night etc...as if we are to expect SA to happen and how we would contribute to it. But people born assigned male at birth typically do not get this type of talk, so when a male is SA, it makes perfect sense they'd feel confused, conflicted, guilty, and freeze etc. This is an excellent show.
Requesting an episode about abuse in the workplace ❤
I am trying write a novel series, and watching your videos is helping me to bring my characters to life so they are not so flat. It's kind of why I am so into your channel. Being someone who was diagnosed with schizoid, sometimes I can't really know what someone is feeling looking at them on the surface I think and I don't take the time to truly get to know strangers. I am just focused on my children to be honest and trying to meet all their needs. (I have a few friends I met on games though, but I never ask them personal questions and I kind of feel weird when they talk about personal things with me. But I don't let them know I feel weird of course. And not having such strong emotions about things myself it's sometimes hard to relate about certain things. Like being heartbroken for example. Or desperate for affection. Stuff like that. It's hard to explain I guess. But I may actually watch this series too, even though it's not really the kind of stuff I normally watch. 🙂
Your channel is one of my favourite, thank you so much for your hard work!
My impression from the show was that he initially liked it and encouraged their relationship. I’m not Blaming Donnie, but that’s my impression
I’m glad you’re not blaming Donny, so I will be nice here. Would you have really gotten the impression that Donny was enjoying the relationship if the genders were reversed?
@@Bambino-gk1diinteresting way to check on biases. I personally could see a reversal with a female Donny appearing like a “mean girl” character and Martha this unattractive male who seems initially harmless and someone who flatters her.
I agree, he was enjoying the attention. I think he mentioned it in the series. Additionally, when Martha stopped contacting him, he then wanted to have sex with her… masturbating whilst thinking of her.
Initially, he seemed surprised, then flattered by Martha's attention, those feelings dissipated as Martha's attention became obsessive.
@@margaretr5701 or violent?
Thank you soooooo much for covering this !!!! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
After watching the first video on this show , i had started watching this one and 5 min in I decided i needed to watch the whole show before watching further 😅 so i did. Glad i did cause now everything Kirk says I understand better. The Darrien scene was absolutely one of the most horrific moments in a tv show I’ve felt in a longggg time. I think it hit this chord inside because i too have been taken advantage by a man not to that extent but a lot of similar feelings came up watching it and i had to cry through it but man. I didn’t expect that twist when all of it came up 😐 anyways. Thanks for the reaction and your insight to the show 🙌🏻
Happy to see chapter 2 🎉🎉
Thank you for this masterful analysis. As brilliant as the production is, I was unable to watch the whole thing because it was too disturbing. Your compassionate and insightful breakdown of narcissism, stalking and victim dynamics in this scenario has given me tremendously valuable personal insight. I am enormously grateful 🙏
Great summary and really helps to deconstruct the key understandings which are certainly relateable in real life and certain relationships.
Being stalked is the most frightening thing. You never know when or where they’ll show up. I personally have no compassion for the Martha character having been stalked myself.
Past DV advocate and current therapist here - WOW this was well done and the most accurate depiction I’ve seen. They will use these scenes in training at some point.
I am the walrus 15:42
Edit: what a fun coincidence - You ended up mentioning The Beatles.
Also, I’ve seen at least 50 of your episodes. And this is by far the most rich. So full of good information
This is definitely something I’ve experienced and trying to navigate it is no fun. I’m saving this in case I need it for future reference. Danke!
22:20 this is not what I was expecting. I’m crying while out on my walk to pickup to my little people.
My little people😭
Thank you for your view ... Very eye opening
I’m so impressed with this breakdown. I also have worked in mental health for my career.. very nice!!
Thank you so much for pointing out, in first video and this one, people insisting on finding out who the abusers are, are also greatly disrespecting him. It's awful, actually! Please just appreciate the show, script, and actor/victim.
I fully agree about the other bar workers. They felt like caricatures of people. Seemed to be that they weren't written with any depth, over exaggerated shallowness. I also absolutely LOVE the Teri character. The actress is phenomenal! I was so happy for her when she realized her own worth and left him.
I worked in retail and had an ex who would call in asking if i was there and thank whoever taught my managers and coworkers not to give any information on whether or not I was working or what my schedule was.
Loved this review on the show by far one of my favorites! You're awesome!
Thank you so much for this video because I’ve never been able to afford to go to a therapist and there have been quite a few things that have happened in my life for example, my stepdad molested me until I was around 13 and he said he would kill me if I told anyone so I had to run away and I didn’t tell my mom until I was 25 and many other things happened between my 29 years on this planet. I don’t know how I’ve survived this long. But I always have isolated myself like you said. but one of the worst things I was almost killed by a serial killer and even then I have to act like everything was fine and normal almost and not talk about it to anyone and everything was not fine I fell into a deep depression for 7 months . because a lot of people around me weren’t supportive or validating or comfortable with me talking about it . and it wasn’t my fault… but I felt like just an alien like something was wrong with me. I just slept for 7 months .but the way you’re talking about the show and how to deal with these things and that these experiences are serious really
Helps . really makes me feel understood and seen and not like it’s something wrong with me, and not like a total stranger on this planet. Thank you
We see young we stand with you.
I watched this while feeding and snuggling my 2 month old baby and the way I held him close when you talked about talked about the zipping scene and how that's all we want as young babies 🥹🥹
22:38 I thought he was going to say “…because the Turtles song is so triggering for me.” 😊
I’m glad I wasn’t the only person to turn away from episode 4 with the extended abuse scenes I had to fast forward it was so heartbreaking and visceral
It was similar to watching Outlander, the man rape scenes were so horrible we stopped watching and my daughter and I had nightmares and she was even doing her art at the time
@@CJ-ft9yo Yeah, those SA scenes were horrible on a maximum level.
I think the zip comment was her way of saying she wants to be close to him so much that she wants to be closer than physically possible.
I recently watched a panel show where individuals shared the nightmare they experienced being targeted by erotomaniacs.
They went through years of stalking, endless messaging, an impossibility to reason with the other no matter what, and culminating in violence towards the end.
It seems the female character in this series ticks way more boxes for this pathology than for NPD.
What’s the show called? Also erotomania can easily coincide with NPD
Any type of personality disorder can coexist with other mental illnesses
Very good analogy! I've been a victim of a stalker and to this day, remember the fear I felt when I heard footsteps on my roof. Not sure if that fear will ever go away.
Interesting. I understood Donny's lying on his dating profile as his shame in exploring his sexuality not as lying because of Martha (similar to his shame about his comedy and lying about omission about his comedy).
Basically would be have still made a fake profile, even without Marth. I believe so as he is exploring his sexuality and attempting to understand his assault by the writer.
But just my take
My daughter and i have been stalked by my narcissist ex, and it was terrifying.
He used his employment to disguise his actions. He was a postie and had his route changed to my street. My street was a cul-de-sac, so whenever he was around, i felt so trapped.
He would "accidentally" drop mail and pick it up, double back to houses in my street that he supposedly "forgot" to post when he went past them, and generally behaved in strange ways.
He also had all the streets we walked between my home and the school put on his route. Then he was in those streets at the same time as i would pick her up.
I was a prisoner in the house when he was still in our lives, then was a prisoner in my routines and life when he was out of our house.
I drove past him once, and all i wanted to do was run him down with my car. Im not a violent person, but the things he did were driving me crazy!
He tried to turn things against me. There was a violence order to protect us, and somehow, he convinced the police i was harassing him, and they threatened to remove the order and put a new one out protecting HIM!!
Violence orders don't always work. Sometimes, they make things worse.
Regarding 'he turned things against me', there is a marvelous coach named Melanie Tonia Evans. She helps victims heal and even helps them work with the courts and police. I'm directing this to someone who might have this problem.
He did not lie about his identity to Teri because of fear of Martha finding out. He lied because he was ashamed of being on a trans dating app or being seen as gay or less masculine. That's why he leaves her at that train after he gets paranoid that people are seeing them having PDA and assuming they know she's trans. That's why he always goes to the same place with low light... It's all about his shame of not knowing his own sexual identity and fear of being judged by others. Martha had nothing to do with that here!
(34:18) .. but *did* go online on that dating site under a false identity because of Martha? Because I don’t think that’s a given.
Actually the timeline is pretty interpretable, and it really seemed to me like he went on that dating site under a different identity completely unrelated to Martha at first, and it had more to do with his issues pending his sexual abuse and his uncertainty about his sexuality afterwards. And Martha came into play later, as a secondary complication.
Just saying, since I was at this part of your argument, Dr Honda, and realised I saw things completely differently.
31:55 on point! (about setting healthy boundaries for non-assertive people)