Not a gluer but a window patcher/ pick and place operator. How hard is it to learn and become a competent gluer? as with single use plastic being reduced I can see work for my machine dying off.
Hey man! How’s it going? I run a window machine too. I run a Heiber Schröder 110. We have the pick and place rigid window attachment also. It’s the old kind. The new one they have looks a lot nicer. The old one is a pain in the ass! Lol. To be fair, I haven’t ran the rigid window for about 5-6 years now. And when I did, it was very few and far for me to ever get good at. It was mainly the feeder of the rigid windows that was hard to perfect. All the static in the film, they wanted to pull double and triples. It didn’t matter how many static ionizers I threw at it, etc, I just couldn’t get it. Yeah! We haven’t ran it in a long time now. A lot of money in rigid, but like you say, it’s a dying thing. We are even going to paper instead of plastic for tissue cartons. Anyways, as for learning gluers…I would say a good 2 years before you get to a point where you start to feel comfortable. I’ve been doing it for 15-16 years. I’m still learning. It all depends on how much variation there is in styles and the amount of makereadies you do. At my company, I do makereadies daily. Styles range all over the place. The more variation, the longer it takes to get good. The more makereadies you do per day, the quicker you’ll pick it up. Some plants only run one size and style for days or weeks. If that’s the case, you won’t learn everything very fast, but you won’t need to because there isn’t much change. It’s all relative. Lol. I know that’s kind of a shitty answer but all in all, I say 2 years and you’ll be well on your way. There’s so many gluer operator jobs available that once you learn it and have your foot in the door, you can write your own ticket and go anywhere if you’re decent. Bad thing is you have to be willing to relocate to find the right company. No different than a window machine operator. The work is fun and challenging. There’s always something new going on. It can be frustrating too, as with any process. How long have you been operating window machines? Are you running folding cartons, corrugated, or something else?
@@masterfolder3155 Thanks for the reply, I run a 2012 heiber and only been doing this for 3 years which isnt very long, only 7 months infact on this machine! I spent 2.5 years on a Kohmann first which had tons of varied make readys whereas the plant I work at now are mostly large runs with the occasional make ready 2/3 times a week. Pick and place has always just been easitec machines and wasn't as much as a learning curve due to how similar a kohmann setup is to it - the magazine for pnp being the hard part. Gluing here depends largely on the machine, we have Alpinas for purely straight lines with an easy feeder and semi auto packing system but master fold and expert fold for the more complex work such as triple stackers and crash locks. Thank you for the reply, atm I have a choice of learning gluing or potforming/trays in the future but leaning towards gluing
@@Blackarrow179 My Heiber Schroeder is 2001. It’s old compared to yours. Ultimately the same machine just different years. Is yours manual cams for lifter timing and inline slit timing? Mine is. Do you ever run tissue cartons at all? I’ve been running for 16-17 years and I’ve been through the gauntlet with that window machine. Right now everything is going well for the past 4-5 years. The main fix was the film and the right supplier. I fought that machine for years because the film would always ride up the knife drum as it’s coming out. Then it would miss the vacuum holes on the vacuum drum. I don’t care how much anti static I added, extra air, etc, it just didn’t want to release. We had the machine regrounded for static dissipation and everything. We had Nick in from Heiber and he said there’s plenty of vac and blow. I really think those machines should have more vacuum holes around the drum so that there’s more vacuum potential to draw the film down onto the vac drum. It’s like once that front edge rides up that knife drum, it’s over unless the one row of vac holes can try and suck the film before it cuts. I have a whole phone full of slow motion videos of it happening. Anyways. Lol. Yeah! That’s one machine that has kicked my ass hard for years. I can run gluers like nothing all day, but if the window is acting up, I’m at the mercy of the film. Lol. We ended up getting a more slippery film. The original stuff that gave us a lot of problems was really ‘sticky’. I don’t know how else to describe it. There was no slip to it. The rolls were wound like bricks. We’d complain over and over and the supplier said nobody else is complaining. Just like they said it’s impossible for them to send us rolls wound backwards with the treated side in instead of out. So who knows if they were lying to us.
@@Blackarrow179 Also, I don’t know how old you are or if you really are interested in folding cartons much, but if you’re going to pick between the forming and the gluer operating, I would say gluers. It’s really a lot to learn but it keeps you busy and there’s always something new to learn. If you don’t have to feed or be on the lines while operating at your company, that’s even better. You have a lot of freedom and get to move around the department which is better than standing in one place all day. Like I said, once you are experienced, you can write your own ticket and go literally anywhere you want if that’s something that it would ever come to. I say go for it. You already know folding cartons from the window machine so it’s not like you’re walking into folding cartons green.
@@masterfolder3155 Yeah the lifter timings are all manual, the Kohmann is far superior in lifter feeding but as thats the only feeding option that's a given. They apparently used to run tissue boxes but this was before I worked there and it apparently ran well. Film related issues are a ball ache, a lot of playing round with air to give the film that just right amount of push so that the suction cylinder catches it tight, in fact had this same problem this morning. Type of film also has a huge impact, the job running now uses standard polyester treated with anti mist so its slippery enough to go through machine smoothly. However we have the flying splice attachment so trying to connect another roll of film when its treated is a pain. Acetate and clarifoil are probably the worst film I've ever used due to how thin they are and how easily they tear. Too much tension is enough for it to snap and the edges curl on the suction cylinder. Trying to increase the compression ends up with the film sliding off the glue
wow that's amazing !! keep up the good work the video was great!!!
👍 Good idea!!!
Yes mate that's thinking outside the box!!
Great vid I find with large die angles it’s always best to put the support right under the angle seems to fold better
Absolutely!
Yes, this problem is frequent.
Graeat ideaaa
Good idea👍
This is actually how I do all my make-readies.
Not a gluer but a window patcher/ pick and place operator. How hard is it to learn and become a competent gluer? as with single use plastic being reduced I can see work for my machine dying off.
Hey man! How’s it going? I run a window machine too. I run a Heiber Schröder 110. We have the pick and place rigid window attachment also. It’s the old kind. The new one they have looks a lot nicer. The old one is a pain in the ass! Lol. To be fair, I haven’t ran the rigid window for about 5-6 years now. And when I did, it was very few and far for me to ever get good at. It was mainly the feeder of the rigid windows that was hard to perfect. All the static in the film, they wanted to pull double and triples. It didn’t matter how many static ionizers I threw at it, etc, I just couldn’t get it. Yeah! We haven’t ran it in a long time now. A lot of money in rigid, but like you say, it’s a dying thing. We are even going to paper instead of plastic for tissue cartons.
Anyways, as for learning gluers…I would say a good 2 years before you get to a point where you start to feel comfortable. I’ve been doing it for 15-16 years. I’m still learning.
It all depends on how much variation there is in styles and the amount of makereadies you do. At my company, I do makereadies daily. Styles range all over the place. The more variation, the longer it takes to get good. The more makereadies you do per day, the quicker you’ll pick it up. Some plants only run one size and style for days or weeks. If that’s the case, you won’t learn everything very fast, but you won’t need to because there isn’t much change. It’s all relative. Lol.
I know that’s kind of a shitty answer but all in all, I say 2 years and you’ll be well on your way. There’s so many gluer operator jobs available that once you learn it and have your foot in the door, you can write your own ticket and go anywhere if you’re decent. Bad thing is you have to be willing to relocate to find the right company. No different than a window machine operator.
The work is fun and challenging. There’s always something new going on. It can be frustrating too, as with any process.
How long have you been operating window machines? Are you running folding cartons, corrugated, or something else?
@@masterfolder3155 Thanks for the reply, I run a 2012 heiber and only been doing this for 3 years which isnt very long, only 7 months infact on this machine! I spent 2.5 years on a Kohmann first which had tons of varied make readys whereas the plant I work at now are mostly large runs with the occasional make ready 2/3 times a week.
Pick and place has always just been easitec machines and wasn't as much as a learning curve due to how similar a kohmann setup is to it - the magazine for pnp being the hard part.
Gluing here depends largely on the machine, we have Alpinas for purely straight lines with an easy feeder and semi auto packing system but master fold and expert fold for the more complex work such as triple stackers and crash locks. Thank you for the reply, atm I have a choice of learning gluing or potforming/trays in the future but leaning towards gluing
@@Blackarrow179 My Heiber Schroeder is 2001. It’s old compared to yours. Ultimately the same machine just different years. Is yours manual cams for lifter timing and inline slit timing? Mine is. Do you ever run tissue cartons at all? I’ve been running for 16-17 years and I’ve been through the gauntlet with that window machine. Right now everything is going well for the past 4-5 years. The main fix was the film and the right supplier.
I fought that machine for years because the film would always ride up the knife drum as it’s coming out. Then it would miss the vacuum holes on the vacuum drum. I don’t care how much anti static I added, extra air, etc, it just didn’t want to release. We had the machine regrounded for static dissipation and everything. We had Nick in from Heiber and he said there’s plenty of vac and blow.
I really think those machines should have more vacuum holes around the drum so that there’s more vacuum potential to draw the film down onto the vac drum. It’s like once that front edge rides up that knife drum, it’s over unless the one row of vac holes can try and suck the film before it cuts.
I have a whole phone full of slow motion videos of it happening. Anyways. Lol. Yeah! That’s one machine that has kicked my ass hard for years. I can run gluers like nothing all day, but if the window is acting up, I’m at the mercy of the film. Lol. We ended up getting a more slippery film. The original stuff that gave us a lot of problems was really ‘sticky’. I don’t know how else to describe it. There was no slip to it. The rolls were wound like bricks. We’d complain over and over and the supplier said nobody else is complaining. Just like they said it’s impossible for them to send us rolls wound backwards with the treated side in instead of out. So who knows if they were lying to us.
@@Blackarrow179 Also, I don’t know how old you are or if you really are interested in folding cartons much, but if you’re going to pick between the forming and the gluer operating, I would say gluers. It’s really a lot to learn but it keeps you busy and there’s always something new to learn. If you don’t have to feed or be on the lines while operating at your company, that’s even better. You have a lot of freedom and get to move around the department which is better than standing in one place all day. Like I said, once you are experienced, you can write your own ticket and go literally anywhere you want if that’s something that it would ever come to. I say go for it. You already know folding cartons from the window machine so it’s not like you’re walking into folding cartons green.
@@masterfolder3155 Yeah the lifter timings are all manual, the Kohmann is far superior in lifter feeding but as thats the only feeding option that's a given.
They apparently used to run tissue boxes but this was before I worked there and it apparently ran well. Film related issues are a ball ache, a lot of playing round with air to give the film that just right amount of push so that the suction cylinder catches it tight, in fact had this same problem this morning.
Type of film also has a huge impact, the job running now uses standard polyester treated with anti mist so its slippery enough to go through machine smoothly. However we have the flying splice attachment so trying to connect another roll of film when its treated is a pain. Acetate and clarifoil are probably the worst film I've ever used due to how thin they are and how easily they tear. Too much tension is enough for it to snap and the edges curl on the suction cylinder. Trying to increase the compression ends up with the film sliding off the glue