Once i tried the New English Vintage 30 i was sold and bought another for a combo amp, it has it all from highs to crunchy bass lows with sweet midrange and not shrill with treble high ! Eminence speakers were a waste of money i found out for my taste or sound !
Boy, once the distortion hits the differences in EQ/response jump right out! To me, the Greenback actually sounded the most pleasing, which wasn't a big surprise. The drastic differences between the G12H30 and Classic Lead 80 were startling.
One of the best vids comparing Celestion speakers I've seen so far. Great to hear them back to back. My favourites are the greenback and creamback as expected, but the 65 and classic lead (for lead playing obviously) really impressed me. Rock on!
Thanks for the great videos Been building my own cabs for a while I´m a Physics student and always try to optimize and i love the logical way you test your gear Mikko from ML labs brought me here he loved your cabs
I always thought I liked V30s best based upon cabs I've owned in the past but was very intrigued by my preference for the G12H-30 Anniversary and the H75 Creamback in this shootout. I wonder how these would these pair up in a vertical 2x12.
The Greenback is a great workhorse for just about anything, for me. G12-65 is one of my favourite speakers in an open back cab. It wasn't bad in this video but is definitely better with some air moving behind it. The Anniversary is one of those speakers that I really don't like in the room or even on stage, but it does seem to record really well. Thanks for the video, gentlemen!
Thanks Andre, you pretty much got it there, or at least hit what I think about those speakers.... I used to love the H anniversary but I think there are a few adaptations of the H that sound better.
Thanks Eduardo.. it's a cool speaker, it became quite unpopular a few years ago but seems to be getting a bit of attention again these days. Thanks for watching.
I use a Neo creamback in an open back pine cab. At 74 I have played a lot of Celestions over the years. I still like the V30. I have become very attached to the Neo. To me it has the kind of sound of a Post produced record of a good player playing a half stack. It keeps everything really even like a compressor across the entire range. If forced to keep my levels down the basic sound does not change. It takes pedals beautifully.
I'm torn between the magic of the M greenback that might sometimes not be quite loud enough for some gigs in my rig and the H75 creamback for that extra volume. Both sounded great, but for pure tone the M greenback wins for me.
Really interesting - thanks! They all sound great for cleans.The G12H 30W was my favorite for gain overall. Dunno why, just like that bloody midrange somehow, sounds hot! If the Beatles had this many speaker choices, they would've used them all, each for a different song & effect. I really wanted to like the Creamback, but found I wouldn't prefer it - it's kind of so-so to me. I used to love Vintage 30s, but have to say to my ears now, they don't get it done anymore. Or as we say in the States, "git'r'dun"! You guys rock - keep it up!
Thanks, i'm glad you like it. That is a funny idea, using different speakers for different songs... I think that is the kind of thing you do when you have someone to change the speakers for you ;)
What a great demo, thanks. As the gain increased the differences became more and more pronounced!! Just very differend sounds, I am holding back on making value judgements on them. Very nice playing too. Subbed.
Really enjoyed the video. Good format and comparison! The G12H-30 was the standout for me. Thinking about putting one in my 2x12 with a greenback 12M to add a bit more high end. Thanks!
JoshInKL agree. Great speaker. Greenback is half as loud to your ears as h30 though so you more or less won’t hear it. The best speaker to mix with it is vintage 30 (which I hate alone but love with g12h). Good luck. Can’t go wrong. G12h heritage is worth the stretch if you can make it. Richer mids due to no edge doping. Mix 55hz and 75 he to good effect too.
Hi Josh and Billy, it looks like I'm late here ;)..... The H anniversary is a really nice speaker, we used to mix it loads with the V30 as like Billy says they sit really well together and are well balanced. The M greenback actually sounds great with the H-30, there is a drop in volume but it doesn't cause huge problems. Matchless mix them a lot.
HI Billy thanks for the input. In all honesty the sensitivity thing is a bit scarier on paper than in practise. Totally agree with mixing a H with a V30 but when it comes to mixing it with an M greenback there aren't as many volume issues as you would think. We used to do it a bit, although I would always make sure we pointed the volume difference to customers..... with the prevalence of vertical cabs it has made mixing different sensitivities a bit easier too. Thanks again for the comments.
Zilla Cabs Agreed. They are good together but don’t seem to complement as well as the vintage 30 does. Bogner alchemist 2 x 12 uses both. Puts the green back up top obviously to put the quieter speaker more in your face. They are actually shockingly close to each other. But the G 12 H is brighter and overall stronger. Sure appreciate you taking the time to respond to everybody. This is such a worthwhile endeavor.
They came in the anniversary cabs paired to the OR50's in 2008. I hared my OR50 with Vintage 30's. My religious experience was running my OR50 for my buddys 2 4x12 Sound City cabs loaded with Fanes. I went out about bought a Weber replica of a Fane and didn't look back. Turns out G12H and Fanes were the standard speakers used at Orange until the Gibson era.
I really like the G12H Anniversary in all this, secondly the H creamback, which just from what i'm hearing here probably wouldn't go well with my Egnater Tweaker 40, as it has a lot of low mid punch and this amp already has perhaps too much of that. And well, considering that the Egnater/Celestion elite gh-50 that comes in the combo is very heavily inspired by the g12h30, I think it's a good shout to match with this amp. I'm definitely not digging this amp with the V30s I have right now.
Thanks for taking time to listen there. I think it is always a draw between finding a speaker that matches what the amp is doing and finding a speaker that compensates for what an amp isn't doing... there is so much fun in experimenting.
Reading the comments, it seems like a lot of people gravitated toward the anniversary and the Creamback, but, compared to the Greenback, my favorite in this demonstration, both sounded a little overly excited in the high frequencies. Even with their steeper roll off, the Classic Lead and G12-65 both sounded closer to the Greenie to my ears. The Vintage 30 kind of has its own thing going on compared to the others.
The Greenback was my favourite too, though I thought it might pair well with the G12H Anniversary, the top end with the latter had a bit of a sparkle and was a tad more open. The H75 Creamback had a similar flavour, though not the same. I thought the Classic Lead 80 and the G12-G5 sounded a bit boxy. Cheers
I think we are going to have a look at the CL80 as I think it can do better. Maybe we should do a longer video on different sized cabs and amps with it as it can have limitations and also sing.
Thumbs up for your dedication to no-nonsense reviews; they are really helpful! I must say that I really disliked the CL80 here (and loved it in your other video). That's the painful bit about speakers: some work well in some cabs and with some amps, and in other contexts they simply don't. Personally, I found the Celestion Vintage 30 + WGS ET65 combo to work in most situations.
I like the Classic Lead 80, but in this test, it felt a little damped as you said. You did another video featuring it and it sounded a lot better there. In this test, the Greenback was my favorite.
So true, it is a real shame because I think a vintage 30 and classic lead 80 are the ultimate combo. I think I prefer the CL80 to the v30 personally. At least with a triple x.
Well I was looking for the over all tone mainly because I will be Teeming it up with a Tone Tubby Red in my Twin So I am looking for Bottom end with clear mids. I am impressed with the H 70th anniversary but it looks like the Vintage 30 for me is the best choice. This would be a harder decision if I was working with a closed cab. I have to give this video a Few more Listens because I really want to achieve an fidelity of tones in the twin. Thanks For making these videos. Years ago we had to buy the speaker then find out if we liked it or not.
No problem at all, it is our pleasure. Let us know how you get on. We have a Tone Tubby Red here but I don't think we have ever mixed it with a Celestion.
Nicely done. I would have loved a humbuckeer comparison as well but I'm greedy. I play clean a lot and there are often such tradeofss. Love the old Greenback but wish the bass was more solid. For years I used a Vintage 30 combined with a G12H30 and they kind of balanced, in general and with each handling low and high gain better than the other. I would probably go with the Creamback H now. I have the M version but am less enamored of it. Thanks again. Oh, two amps, an old Gibson Goldtone (the Trace Elliott) and a Fender Princeton that I have completely bastardized, replacing the transformers with bigger Mercury's and going to 6L6's. I'm not sure what it sounds like but I like it.
I'm a big fan of the V30/H creamback mix, i think as a pair it sounds great, but is really useful in the studio or if you play in different groups with different styles. That Princeton sounds interested!
I agree with your opinion on the G12H 70th Anniversary speaker. My Laney Lionheart 1x12 cab came with the 70th Anniversary but I just didn't like the sound, so I sold it on and got a G12H Heritage Greenback with the 55Hz cone and my cab now sounds way better. It's amazing what difference a speaker can make to a cab. I'd like an alnico speaker but I can't afford one 😆
Hi you replied to my enquiry 7 minutes ago, on another video shoot out, which I managed to lose and can't locate, its an age thing, Thanks very much for your reply, not late at all, you must be really busy! You recommended Greenback for my HTR5R. Yes it is a 12inch combo. Jammed a few hours ago with my drummer buddy. The Little Blackstar is loud enough, just. But the amp breaks into a dog bark really early and we play low gain clean style. Anyway I think its a new amp with more power and clean headroom for our jams. But For home use the HTR5R is good enough just don't like the lack of warmth and lean bright tonality. I have a Mex Strat Rosewood fingerboard and a USA CustomTele both single coil and humbucker pick ups. I like warmth and articulate tones. So the right speaker should help. I am also interested in a Zilla cab probably a single speaker for easy transportation, my new amp probably a Blues Junior which has a Celestion A stock speaker. Your demonstration playing is brilliant and excellent for your speaker comparisons. Many thanks again, cheers.
Thanks Tom, I lose stuff on youtube all the time too haha. Joe is great at showing what a speaker can do, I just let him loose with a load of speakers and he comes back to me with a great video ;)
Next video suggestion: the 'back shootout - greenback m25 vs creamback m65 vs creamback h75 vs redback h150. Closed back cab. Emphasis on heavy sounds (where speaker differences are more apparent, really)
Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed it. The H creamback blends really well with the alnico cream. Joe mixes an alnico cream with an M creamback in one of his cabs, and that sounds great, but the H cream is probably a bit more balance when mixing with it.
That Creamback sounded great in all settings, with the Greenback similar with slightly recessed highs. When you add cymbals to a mix, it probably nixes the difference. No wonder the Greenback is such a staple, it gives the mixing engineer what they need without extra frequencies. I think if I was exclusively playing jazz (or other lower drum mix music) the Creamback would be my preference. Probably the neo just to save a few pounds!
I've been working the the H anniversary a lot again. It's a cool speaker and one that fell off the radar a little for a few years. Thanks for watching.
I've been using V30 in 1x12 or 4x12 since forever... and my tone is all there... the only alternative may be the Creamback... maybe the NEO/ lighter version now that I'm turning 47...
Hey dudes. I just bought a JCM 800 1960 Slant cab that had a quad of 8 Ohm G12-65's in it . I got it for $80 Canadian with plans to restore the cab, as its pretty rough and missing the grill and logo. and was told the speakers were just fine, but looks like I will need to re cone those because after taking off the fabric stapled to the front when I got home, all the front and speakers was spay painted gold and 1 speaker had a hole, and another the dust cap was mushed in and had gobs of paint built up (LOL JC). I just wanted to ask if you have any tips on finding out what year/era the cab and speakers are from. The Heritage Reissue G12-65's look so close and I have no idea how to tell. Also any tips on re coning? Is there certain cone manufacturers you would recommend (for close to the vintage cone) or just use the new stock Celestion re cone kit? Thanks dudes.
Oh man you got a bargain there! I've pick a few great deals up in my time but I think you win first prize there!.. the old ones tend to be a bit softer sounding too.. not sure if it was due to parts changes (which there has been) or breaking in. Spray paint is never good for speakers but I had a 4x12 with g12-65s in that had been sprayed and they still sounded cool enough. For date codes there is a website called something like bygone tones.... google celestion dates codes and they should come up. That guy knows everything about Celestions.... when it comes to reconing, believe it or not I have only just ordered my first set to have a go myself. I don't think you'll find original parts but a pro recone guy should know, go to the top one you can and they should be able to help. The Heritage 65s are nice speakers so you could do worse than a new recone set from Celestion. I hope this helps, and let us know how you get on. Paul.
@@ZillaCabs Hey Paul, thanks man , that definitely helps. 2 of them seem like they may be just fine(the spray paint isnt too thick, and the cones are perfect so may keep those as is if they are the older one's) but the other two need it for sure. I'll check out that site for sure. I did abit of research last week and I found something about old Kurt Meuler cones having 1777 , but the celestion recone kits also have 1777 on them so not sure. I'll definitely talk to someone. Just gotta find the date of the cab. That would normally give clues but Im not sure if these were the original speakers. The badge said it was originally 16 Ohms and was crossed out with an 8 drawn on , so I think they are different than what came in the cab. Thanks Paul!! Ill let you know how it goes for sure!
In that box both Classic Lead and 1265 sounded muffled. Highs where gone. They just could not fight true it. Felt almost like microphones where more of the center. Anyways old Marshall 4x12 with any if those two sounds way different. Not meaning to cay your cab is not good, you do make good cabs just that one does not fit those speakers. I guess it is to big. Anyways the other 3 sounded like I know them. Anniversary shot little bit over but still very good in person and my second favorite here specially for the price. Cream H became my favorite ceramic magnet Celestion first time it came out and still does it for me. Mind you both Anniversary and Creamback H combines very good with the speakers with less high end content like in this case it would combine great with the both Classic Lead and the 1265. Creamback H combines good with the Creamback M to. Anyways China made Greenback often sounds pretty good. Bit harsh before broken in but goid. Pitty that power handling and sensitivity is to low so it does limits its usefulness to specific applications. Heritage do sound better to me but are different speakers altogether and cost more.
Each speaker will work different in each cab. These speakers in the Marshall would have been much older versions with different cones and other parts due to the age. Thanks for watching.
The cab has little to do with it.. More to do with the amp head, eqing, micing, and the simple fact that old Marshall cabs have old original Marshall celestions... These are reissues... Made of modern materials. They do not sound exactly the same. They are faithful recreations.
@@ryans9029 och trust me all other being the same cab does do the difference. From the angle of the baffle board to distance from front to back and form and size of the cab. Even wood and the bracing matters. Check the video of Johan between vintage 1960A and B cabinet. Internal reflection can cancel some frequencies coming put of the speaker. Those can introduce partial unwanted vibrations in the membrane and if out of the phase even cancel some frequencies. True is that all you have said influences the sound but all being same two cabinets will never sound the s100% ame.
Hi Sarah, personally I'd say the greenback but I heard from one of their tech that they didn;t really like the greenback themselves.... Personally I go for the greenback if I were trying to get ACDC like tones. Thanks for watching.
Do you guys still offer the Mint Green Tolex that I’ve seen before on your cabs? Your website only shows Teal or Baby Blue as the closest alternatives.
Oh wow I hope you are the real Terry Crews ;) we have the seafoam green in, I will have to head over to the website to check what the pictures say but we definitely have it in... Sorry for the slow response by the way.
Great job, very helpful! Which one would you recommend for a Fender Blues Junior (open back, small enclosure!)? I liked the Creamback H75 and Greenback the most! Cheers from Italy
Hi Luca, thanks for getting in touch. I hope you are all safe and well. I would normally ask what you play and say any would work well, but at the end of last year we did a video on a silver face twin with a pair of G12-65 and it was honestly one of the best sounds I have ever heard..... Check back through the videos and let me know what you think.
@@ZillaCabs Thanks for your help, we are doing fine here, gradually going back to life. I ended up with a Celestion G1235xc, you should try that speaker too! I have also found a Classic Lead for cheap and it's coming in a few days. Cheers
Hi Stephen, thanks for watching. We have been talking about ways of offering tracks or impulses for people who want to get a bit more involved. We did do a run of short videos after this of speakers mixed/combined.
I just bought an old, beat up engl pro 412 with v30s at the bottom and m greenbacks at the top. This cab just sounds monstrous but i have the fear of blowing them speakers with my tube amps cause its only 100 watts.
Greenback: Classic rock. Really cool, but kind of muffled. You understand why the old guys used treble boosters with their Marshalls. G12H Anniversary: As the greenback, but with more volume and more high mids and clarity. My favorite in this shootout and what I have in my amps. I guess it will pair well with a greenback V30: Another classic, quite similar to the Anniversary but with a different voicing. Would probably also pair well with a greenback. Creamback H: Great power handling and punch. Quite linear and solid without any frequencies poking out, almost like there is too much going on. Sounds «less classic», almost without any character. Would be a good choice for a 1x12 for a 50 watter though. The other ones just sound muffled in my opinion, maybe they suit other applications or rigs better. I have an anniversary in my Tweed Deluxe to give it much needed volume and brightness. It’s almost a mini Marshall now. I also have two Anniversaries in a 2x12 with a Trainwreck Express clone. Looking forward to switch one of those out for a vintage G12M to tame volume and high frequencies and bring in a little more classic dirt to the mix.
Great video guys! Lot's of love for the Creamback H here! Can't make sense of a 2x12 or 4x12 with Greenbacks in my bedroom studio, so a 1x12 Creamback is fantastic. I would also like if you guys showed us the recording set-up, mic positioning, and also the playing. Did you use any room mic or all mics close to the speaker cab? Maybe next time blend a bit of an omni condenser mic so that the room comes through
Thanks. We use a close mic. We were only talking today about getting a stereo room mic setup. We have a new workshop and a much larger area/rooms for recording/filming so we should be doing that soon.
I'm a g12m 25 watt but I bet the h anniversary and g12m mixed in an x pattern in a closed back 412 with a friedman dirty shirley slammin them would sound mint
@@ZillaCabs how about g12m vs. G12m heritage vs scumback m75 pvc vs scumback regular m75........ That would be very appealing to a huge crowd......everyone wants the old pulsonic cone greenback tone..... So let's find out which greenback clone is truly the closest....... Celestion vs scumback..... Please! Heritage g12m 20watt, g12m standard reussue 25watt, scumback m75 pvc 20watt, scumback m75 25 watt...... I'd pay to see you guys do that comparison
The idea behind the video was to have the original four classic series speakers together... the G12-65 was put in because Joe wasn't paying attention at the time ;) ..... now the classic series is huge and has about twenty + speakers in it. We will be doing some videos on the K100 though in the next few months. Thanks for watching.
15:53 ??? I always wonder why do speaker comparisons never use a looper and and just swap out the speaker? Great video you guys always kill it and i always agree with your analysis.
@@ZillaCabs Just joking ;) But it does sound really thin and weird. Almost like something was out of phase. Typically, I have found them to sound somewhat like a V30 with less harsh highs and the mids rolled back a bit. It's strange to me that the one in the clip has so little body to its sound.
These geezers talk for 13 minutes before the shootout. And still forgot to tell the signal chain. The G12H anniversary stood out for clarity and tonal range, followed by the Creamback and V30. Others were ok, a bit "dark and boxy" at times.
@@ZillaCabs I got a new amp and speakers since this comment and i'm good. The Eminence D12V8'S and the MT15 have way too much low mids for bedroom volume so they had to go. Got the WGS Reapers and Retro 30's and then i picked up a H&K Grandmeister 36. I will say though, the GM is great but the treble can be sharp anywhere too much past noon
Thanks for watching. The reason we didn't just record the same ten second clip for each speaker was we wanted to a bit more of a feel of how you would test speakers in a natural environment, almost like an A/B box between cabs. There are several ways of approaching it and each has its positives and negatives.
I dig these videos, but that is not an accurate representation of the G12-65. Those Mesa Stilettos are dark. They’re naturally going to pair better with brighter speakers, as this demo shows. The H30 and H75 speakers will tear your head off with high end, if that’s what you want. But they do pair well with darker amps.
Yeah they are bringing production of a lot of those speakers back to the UK.... CL80, H anniversary, M greenback and a lot of the new releases (creamabcks, redback etc) are UK made too. The standard/classic series M greenback is still quite different to the Heritage speakers. It still does sound different.
@@ZillaCabs Interesting.... I have two Blackback G12M's from late 70's, and they are definitely more bitey than what everyone thinks of this model, I think standard reissue are like that too. Currently have them in X-pattern with two '87 G12T-75s (white label), and it's a really good combo so far. Maybe you could look into fooling around with mixing speakers in one cab? Or also same speaker with different cab sizes? Except V30, Mesa has done homework on this already. I tried those G12M's before in a 4x12 cab, just two of them, with two other holes covered up, and it was way too sizzly, but maybe darker speakers would fare better in a bigger box on the other hand? Thanks for your in-depth videos so far!
We get asked to. There aren't many people who deal with speakers all day everyday, so not many who have the insights we have. You can always skip the talking bits, that's cool, but lot of people come to us for our knowledge on speakers.
H75 Creamback and H Anniversay were the best for me and both sounded cleaner in the midrange and more open than the others
Same
Same. Tempted to mix them in a 4x12
15:32 G12H anniversary
15:38 Classic Lead
15:42 G12-65
15:47 G12H cream
15:52 Greenback
15:27 V30
Once i tried the New English Vintage 30 i was sold and bought another for a combo amp, it has it all from highs to crunchy bass lows with sweet midrange and not shrill with treble high !
Eminence speakers were a waste of money i found out for my taste or sound !
Thanks
It's actually insane how different these sound, great demo.
Yeah, they are all classed as standard speakers but it is surprising how different they can sound. Thanks for watching.
It's why I have a few different cabs loaded with different speakers. It's cool to have different options. Mix and match.
Boy, once the distortion hits the differences in EQ/response jump right out! To me, the Greenback actually sounded the most pleasing, which wasn't a big surprise. The drastic differences between the G12H30 and Classic Lead 80 were startling.
a massive thank you to these guys for my fatbaby 150 w celestion redback cab all the cab you need ,,,paul
Thanks mate, it was my pleasure, I'm glad you are enjoying it.
So nice and kind from you guys to share that unvaluable information, keep up the good work dudes !!
Thanks mate, I'm glad you liked it!
One of the best vids comparing Celestion speakers I've seen so far. Great to hear them back to back. My favourites are the greenback and creamback as expected, but the 65 and classic lead (for lead playing obviously) really impressed me. Rock on!
Thanks for that, glad you liked it Alan.
Thanks for the great videos Been building my own cabs for a while
I´m a Physics student and always try to optimize and i love the logical way you test your gear
Mikko from ML labs brought me here he loved your cabs
Thanks for that, I'm glad you are finding them useful. Mikko has used a few of our cabs, it is nice to know he sent you here.
I always thought I liked V30s best based upon cabs I've owned in the past but was very intrigued by my preference for the G12H-30 Anniversary and the H75 Creamback in this shootout. I wonder how these would these pair up in a vertical 2x12.
That would sound really cool, we've only done that mix a couple of times before but I remember always being really pleased with how it came together.
My preferences:
H Creamback
H30 Anniversary
G1265
Greenback
Vintage 30
Classic Lead 80
The Greenback is a great workhorse for just about anything, for me. G12-65 is one of my favourite speakers in an open back cab. It wasn't bad in this video but is definitely better with some air moving behind it. The Anniversary is one of those speakers that I really don't like in the room or even on stage, but it does seem to record really well. Thanks for the video, gentlemen!
Thanks Andre, you pretty much got it there, or at least hit what I think about those speakers.... I used to love the H anniversary but I think there are a few adaptations of the H that sound better.
Spot on!
H anniversary surprised me when distortion was used. God bless all.
Thanks Eduardo.. it's a cool speaker, it became quite unpopular a few years ago but seems to be getting a bit of attention again these days. Thanks for watching.
Well done! Love the continuous comparisons and different styles.
Thanks Jordan, I'm glad you like it. Thanks for watching.
I use a Neo creamback in an open back pine cab. At 74 I have played a lot of Celestions over the years. I still like the V30. I have become very attached to the Neo. To me it has the kind of sound of a Post produced record of a good player playing a half stack.
It keeps everything really even like a compressor across the entire range. If forced to keep my levels down the basic sound does not change. It takes pedals beautifully.
I'm torn between the magic of the M greenback that might sometimes not be quite loud enough for some gigs in my rig and the H75 creamback for that extra volume. Both sounded great, but for pure tone the M greenback wins for me.
Feeling confident about mixing V30s and H75 Creambacks in my Peavey 430A 412 after watching this video
Yeah it's a great mix of speakers for sure!
Really interesting - thanks! They all sound great for cleans.The G12H 30W was my favorite for gain overall. Dunno why, just like that bloody midrange somehow, sounds hot! If the Beatles had this many speaker choices, they would've used them all, each for a different song & effect. I really wanted to like the Creamback, but found I wouldn't prefer it - it's kind of so-so to me. I used to love Vintage 30s, but have to say to my ears now, they don't get it done anymore. Or as we say in the States, "git'r'dun"! You guys rock - keep it up!
Thanks, i'm glad you like it. That is a funny idea, using different speakers for different songs... I think that is the kind of thing you do when you have someone to change the speakers for you ;)
@@ZillaCabs It's a step beyond roadie changing strings!
Love the G12-65!
Thanks for watching Paul. I love the G12-65 too, they are a great speaker.
What a great demo, thanks. As the gain increased the differences became more and more pronounced!! Just very differend sounds, I am holding back on making value judgements on them. Very nice playing too. Subbed.
That's great, I'm glad you found the video interesting. It's good to have you on the team.
I second the note of the H75 creamback. Pairs well, and I'm a sucker for a 2x12 with different drivers.
Mixing speakers can be super useful in a studio situation too.
@@ZillaCabs a studio setting with 2 different 12" drivers is what got me hooked on combining speakers. A double Fredman setup works immensely well.
Really enjoyed the video. Good format and comparison! The G12H-30 was the standout for me. Thinking about putting one in my 2x12 with a greenback 12M to add a bit more high end. Thanks!
JoshInKL agree. Great speaker. Greenback is half as loud to your ears as h30 though so you more or less won’t hear it. The best speaker to mix with it is vintage 30 (which I hate alone but love with g12h). Good luck. Can’t go wrong. G12h heritage is worth the stretch if you can make it. Richer mids due to no edge doping. Mix 55hz and 75 he to good effect too.
Hz not he.
Hi Josh and Billy, it looks like I'm late here ;)..... The H anniversary is a really nice speaker, we used to mix it loads with the V30 as like Billy says they sit really well together and are well balanced. The M greenback actually sounds great with the H-30, there is a drop in volume but it doesn't cause huge problems. Matchless mix them a lot.
HI Billy thanks for the input. In all honesty the sensitivity thing is a bit scarier on paper than in practise. Totally agree with mixing a H with a V30 but when it comes to mixing it with an M greenback there aren't as many volume issues as you would think. We used to do it a bit, although I would always make sure we pointed the volume difference to customers..... with the prevalence of vertical cabs it has made mixing different sensitivities a bit easier too. Thanks again for the comments.
Zilla Cabs Agreed. They are good together but don’t seem to complement as well as the vintage 30 does. Bogner alchemist 2 x 12 uses both. Puts the green back up top obviously to put the quieter speaker more in your face. They are actually shockingly close to each other. But the G 12 H is brighter and overall stronger. Sure appreciate you taking the time to respond to everybody. This is such a worthwhile endeavor.
I may be wrong, the G12H-30’s were intended for Orange Cabs since it helps “brighten” up the cab itself.
That would make sense, I haven't heard that before but I can see them working really well in Orange 4x12s.
They came in the anniversary cabs paired to the OR50's in 2008. I hared my OR50 with Vintage 30's. My religious experience was running my OR50 for my buddys 2 4x12 Sound City cabs loaded with Fanes. I went out about bought a Weber replica of a Fane and didn't look back. Turns out G12H and Fanes were the standard speakers used at Orange until the Gibson era.
I really like the G12H Anniversary in all this, secondly the H creamback, which just from what i'm hearing here probably wouldn't go well with my Egnater Tweaker 40, as it has a lot of low mid punch and this amp already has perhaps too much of that. And well, considering that the Egnater/Celestion elite gh-50 that comes in the combo is very heavily inspired by the g12h30, I think it's a good shout to match with this amp. I'm definitely not digging this amp with the V30s I have right now.
Thanks for taking time to listen there. I think it is always a draw between finding a speaker that matches what the amp is doing and finding a speaker that compensates for what an amp isn't doing... there is so much fun in experimenting.
You like em because they are loudest... (in the recording)
Reading the comments, it seems like a lot of people gravitated toward the anniversary and the Creamback, but, compared to the Greenback, my favorite in this demonstration, both sounded a little overly excited in the high frequencies. Even with their steeper roll off, the Classic Lead and G12-65 both sounded closer to the Greenie to my ears. The Vintage 30 kind of has its own thing going on compared to the others.
The Greenback was my favourite too, though I thought it might pair well with the G12H Anniversary, the top end with the latter had a bit of a sparkle and was a tad more open. The H75 Creamback had a similar flavour, though not the same. I thought the Classic Lead 80 and the G12-G5 sounded a bit boxy. Cheers
I think we are going to have a look at the CL80 as I think it can do better. Maybe we should do a longer video on different sized cabs and amps with it as it can have limitations and also sing.
@@ZillaCabs Joe B Likes the CL80s with his HP tweed twins
Great Video 🤘🏽
My order of preference was:
1. Creamback
2. Vintage 30
3. Greenback
right on
Thumbs up for your dedication to no-nonsense reviews; they are really helpful!
I must say that I really disliked the CL80 here (and loved it in your other video). That's the painful bit about speakers: some work well in some cabs and with some amps, and in other contexts they simply don't. Personally, I found the Celestion Vintage 30 + WGS ET65 combo to work in most situations.
Thanks Dominik. I think we may revisit the cl80 again as I feel it didn't do as well as it could here.
I like the Classic Lead 80, but in this test, it felt a little damped as you said. You did another video featuring it and it sounded a lot better there. In this test, the Greenback was my favorite.
I agree the classic lead 80 didn't come through quite as well in contrast to the others this time.
So true, it is a real shame because I think a vintage 30 and classic lead 80 are the ultimate combo. I think I prefer the CL80 to the v30 personally. At least with a triple x.
Well I was looking for the over all tone mainly because I will be Teeming it up with a Tone Tubby Red in my Twin So I am looking for Bottom end with clear mids. I am impressed with the H 70th anniversary but it looks like the Vintage 30 for me is the best choice. This would be a harder decision if I was working with a closed cab. I have to give this video a Few more Listens because I really want to achieve an fidelity of tones in the twin. Thanks For making these videos. Years ago we had to buy the speaker then find out if we liked it or not.
No problem at all, it is our pleasure. Let us know how you get on. We have a Tone Tubby Red here but I don't think we have ever mixed it with a Celestion.
Nicely done. I would have loved a humbuckeer comparison as well but I'm greedy. I play clean a lot and there are often such tradeofss. Love the old Greenback but wish the bass was more solid. For years I used a Vintage 30 combined with a G12H30 and they kind of balanced, in general and with each handling low and high gain better than the other. I would probably go with the Creamback H now. I have the M version but am less enamored of it. Thanks again. Oh, two amps, an old Gibson Goldtone (the Trace Elliott) and a Fender Princeton that I have completely bastardized, replacing the transformers with bigger Mercury's and going to 6L6's. I'm not sure what it sounds like but I like it.
I'm a big fan of the V30/H creamback mix, i think as a pair it sounds great, but is really useful in the studio or if you play in different groups with different styles. That Princeton sounds interested!
I agree with your opinion on the G12H 70th Anniversary speaker. My Laney Lionheart 1x12 cab came with the 70th Anniversary but I just didn't like the sound, so I sold it on and got a G12H Heritage Greenback with the 55Hz cone and my cab now sounds way better. It's amazing what difference a speaker can make to a cab. I'd like an alnico speaker but I can't afford one 😆
Hi you replied to my enquiry 7 minutes ago, on another video shoot out, which I managed to lose and can't locate, its an age thing, Thanks very much for your reply, not late at all, you must be really busy! You recommended Greenback for my HTR5R. Yes it is a 12inch combo. Jammed a few hours ago with my drummer buddy. The Little Blackstar is loud enough, just. But the amp breaks into a dog bark really early and we play low gain clean style. Anyway I think its a new amp with more power and clean headroom for our jams. But For home use the HTR5R is good enough just don't like the lack of warmth and lean bright tonality. I have a Mex Strat Rosewood fingerboard and a USA CustomTele both single coil and humbucker pick ups. I like warmth and articulate tones. So the right speaker should help. I am also interested in a Zilla cab probably a single speaker for easy transportation, my new amp probably a Blues Junior which has a Celestion A stock speaker. Your demonstration playing is brilliant and excellent for your speaker comparisons. Many thanks again, cheers.
Thanks Tom, I lose stuff on youtube all the time too haha. Joe is great at showing what a speaker can do, I just let him loose with a load of speakers and he comes back to me with a great video ;)
Superb video. Thanks!
Thanks for that, I'm glad you enjoyed it.
Next video suggestion: the 'back shootout - greenback m25 vs creamback m65 vs creamback h75 vs redback h150. Closed back cab. Emphasis on heavy sounds (where speaker differences are more apparent, really)
Return of the back ;) great suggestion. Our note book for suggestions is growing... we are going to have loads of fun with these!
Really useful video. I love the sound of the G12H-75 Creamback. Would it balance well with an Alnico Cream in a 2x12 do you think?
Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed it. The H creamback blends really well with the alnico cream. Joe mixes an alnico cream with an M creamback in one of his cabs, and that sounds great, but the H cream is probably a bit more balance when mixing with it.
That Creamback sounded great in all settings, with the Greenback similar with slightly recessed highs. When you add cymbals to a mix, it probably nixes the difference. No wonder the Greenback is such a staple, it gives the mixing engineer what they need without extra frequencies. I think if I was exclusively playing jazz (or other lower drum mix music) the Creamback would be my preference. Probably the neo just to save a few pounds!
12H and creamback. Stronger, clearer top end. It's much easier to remove frequencies than it is to put them back in.
I've been working the the H anniversary a lot again. It's a cool speaker and one that fell off the radar a little for a few years. Thanks for watching.
I've been using V30 in 1x12 or 4x12 since forever... and my tone is all there... the only alternative may be the Creamback... maybe the NEO/ lighter version now that I'm turning 47...
The neo should be a decent replacement for the V30 if you want to keep weight down... it actually works great with the V30 too.
Hey dudes. I just bought a JCM 800 1960 Slant cab that had a quad of 8 Ohm G12-65's in it . I got it for $80 Canadian with plans to restore the cab, as its pretty rough and missing the grill and logo. and was told the speakers were just fine, but looks like I will need to re cone those because after taking off the fabric stapled to the front when I got home, all the front and speakers was spay painted gold and 1 speaker had a hole, and another the dust cap was mushed in and had gobs of paint built up (LOL JC). I just wanted to ask if you have any tips on finding out what year/era the cab and speakers are from. The Heritage Reissue G12-65's look so close and I have no idea how to tell. Also any tips on re coning? Is there certain cone manufacturers you would recommend (for close to the vintage cone) or just use the new stock Celestion re cone kit? Thanks dudes.
Oh man you got a bargain there! I've pick a few great deals up in my time but I think you win first prize there!.. the old ones tend to be a bit softer sounding too.. not sure if it was due to parts changes (which there has been) or breaking in. Spray paint is never good for speakers but I had a 4x12 with g12-65s in that had been sprayed and they still sounded cool enough. For date codes there is a website called something like bygone tones.... google celestion dates codes and they should come up. That guy knows everything about Celestions.... when it comes to reconing, believe it or not I have only just ordered my first set to have a go myself. I don't think you'll find original parts but a pro recone guy should know, go to the top one you can and they should be able to help. The Heritage 65s are nice speakers so you could do worse than a new recone set from Celestion. I hope this helps, and let us know how you get on. Paul.
@@ZillaCabs Hey Paul, thanks man , that definitely helps. 2 of them seem like they may be just fine(the spray paint isnt too thick, and the cones are perfect so may keep those as is if they are the older one's) but the other two need it for sure. I'll check out that site for sure. I did abit of research last week and I found something about old Kurt Meuler cones having 1777 , but the celestion recone kits also have 1777 on them so not sure. I'll definitely talk to someone. Just gotta find the date of the cab. That would normally give clues but Im not sure if these were the original speakers. The badge said it was originally 16 Ohms and was crossed out with an 8 drawn on , so I think they are different than what came in the cab. Thanks Paul!! Ill let you know how it goes for sure!
In that box both Classic Lead and 1265 sounded muffled. Highs where gone. They just could not fight true it. Felt almost like microphones where more of the center. Anyways old Marshall 4x12 with any if those two sounds way different. Not meaning to cay your cab is not good, you do make good cabs just that one does not fit those speakers. I guess it is to big. Anyways the other 3 sounded like I know them. Anniversary shot little bit over but still very good in person and my second favorite here specially for the price. Cream H became my favorite ceramic magnet Celestion first time it came out and still does it for me. Mind you both Anniversary and Creamback H combines very good with the speakers with less high end content like in this case it would combine great with the both Classic Lead and the 1265. Creamback H combines good with the Creamback M to. Anyways China made Greenback often sounds pretty good. Bit harsh before broken in but goid. Pitty that power handling and sensitivity is to low so it does limits its usefulness to specific applications. Heritage do sound better to me but are different speakers altogether and cost more.
Each speaker will work different in each cab. These speakers in the Marshall would have been much older versions with different cones and other parts due to the age. Thanks for watching.
The cab has little to do with it.. More to do with the amp head, eqing, micing, and the simple fact that old Marshall cabs have old original Marshall celestions... These are reissues... Made of modern materials. They do not sound exactly the same. They are faithful recreations.
@@ryans9029 och trust me all other being the same cab does do the difference. From the angle of the baffle board to distance from front to back and form and size of the cab. Even wood and the bracing matters. Check the video of Johan between vintage 1960A and B cabinet. Internal reflection can cancel some frequencies coming put of the speaker. Those can introduce partial unwanted vibrations in the membrane and if out of the phase even cancel some frequencies. True is that all you have said influences the sound but all being same two cabinets will never sound the s100% ame.
Which speaker’s tone sounds the most like the well known AC/DC lead tone?
Hi Sarah, personally I'd say the greenback but I heard from one of their tech that they didn;t really like the greenback themselves.... Personally I go for the greenback if I were trying to get ACDC like tones. Thanks for watching.
Anniversary: 15:03
Cream: 15:18
Green: 15:22
Vintage: 15:27
Do you guys still offer the Mint Green Tolex that I’ve seen before on your cabs? Your website only shows Teal or Baby Blue as the closest alternatives.
Oh wow I hope you are the real Terry Crews ;) we have the seafoam green in, I will have to head over to the website to check what the pictures say but we definitely have it in... Sorry for the slow response by the way.
13:18 cleans
15:00 distortion
Thanks.
Great job, very helpful! Which one would you recommend for a Fender Blues Junior (open back, small enclosure!)? I liked the Creamback H75 and Greenback the most! Cheers from Italy
Hi Luca, thanks for getting in touch. I hope you are all safe and well. I would normally ask what you play and say any would work well, but at the end of last year we did a video on a silver face twin with a pair of G12-65 and it was honestly one of the best sounds I have ever heard..... Check back through the videos and let me know what you think.
@@ZillaCabs Thanks for your help, we are doing fine here, gradually going back to life. I ended up with a Celestion G1235xc, you should try that speaker too! I have also found a Classic Lead for cheap and it's coming in a few days. Cheers
Really helpful comparison! Would you consider offering a download of the raw recordings? it would be cool to A/B any two and try combinations
Hi Stephen, thanks for watching. We have been talking about ways of offering tracks or impulses for people who want to get a bit more involved. We did do a run of short videos after this of speakers mixed/combined.
@@ZillaCabs That would be great, especially impulses! Keep up the good work!
@@stephenevans2518 Thanks mate... stay tuned for the impulses ;)
I just bought an old, beat up engl pro 412 with v30s at the bottom and m greenbacks at the top. This cab just sounds monstrous but i have the fear of blowing them speakers with my tube amps cause its only 100 watts.
That's a great mix. I'm sure you'll be fine mate, it is pretty hard to put a full 100 watts through a 4x12.
Greenback: Classic rock. Really cool, but kind of muffled. You understand why the old guys used treble boosters with their Marshalls.
G12H Anniversary: As the greenback, but with more volume and more high mids and clarity. My favorite in this shootout and what I have in my amps. I guess it will pair well with a greenback
V30: Another classic, quite similar to the Anniversary but with a different voicing. Would probably also pair well with a greenback.
Creamback H: Great power handling and punch. Quite linear and solid without any frequencies poking out, almost like there is too much going on. Sounds «less classic», almost without any character. Would be a good choice for a 1x12 for a 50 watter though.
The other ones just sound muffled in my opinion, maybe they suit other applications or rigs better.
I have an anniversary in my Tweed Deluxe to give it much needed volume and brightness. It’s almost a mini Marshall now. I also have two Anniversaries in a 2x12 with a Trainwreck Express clone. Looking forward to switch one of those out for a vintage G12M to tame volume and high frequencies and bring in a little more classic dirt to the mix.
Great video guys! Lot's of love for the Creamback H here! Can't make sense of a 2x12 or 4x12 with Greenbacks in my bedroom studio, so a 1x12 Creamback is fantastic. I would also like if you guys showed us the recording set-up, mic positioning, and also the playing. Did you use any room mic or all mics close to the speaker cab? Maybe next time blend a bit of an omni condenser mic so that the room comes through
Thanks. We use a close mic. We were only talking today about getting a stereo room mic setup. We have a new workshop and a much larger area/rooms for recording/filming so we should be doing that soon.
@@ZillaCabs That's nice to hear. You guys make great cabs and great videos!
I'm a g12m 25 watt but I bet the h anniversary and g12m mixed in an x pattern in a closed back 412 with a friedman dirty shirley slammin them would sound mint
I do like a M and H mixed, I think they have qualities that really work well together. Good call!
@@ZillaCabs how about g12m vs. G12m heritage vs scumback m75 pvc vs scumback regular m75........ That would be very appealing to a huge crowd......everyone wants the old pulsonic cone greenback tone..... So let's find out which greenback clone is truly the closest....... Celestion vs scumback..... Please! Heritage g12m 20watt, g12m standard reussue 25watt, scumback m75 pvc 20watt, scumback m75 25 watt...... I'd pay to see you guys do that comparison
Redbacks and K100s would make this a perfect demo...
The idea behind the video was to have the original four classic series speakers together... the G12-65 was put in because Joe wasn't paying attention at the time ;) ..... now the classic series is huge and has about twenty + speakers in it. We will be doing some videos on the K100 though in the next few months. Thanks for watching.
@@ZillaCabs Thanks!
Rhythm:
H Anniversary - 15:02
Classic Lead 80 - 15:07
G12 65 - 15:12
H75 Creamback - 15:17
M Greenback - 15:22
Vintage 30 - 15:27
15:53 ??? I always wonder why do speaker comparisons never use a looper and and just swap out the speaker? Great video you guys always kill it and i always agree with your analysis.
Thanks that's very kind I'm glad you like them.
Excellent review! Which amp was used?
I thought the sensitivity of the modern 25 watt greenback was 98db, not 97, that 1db actually makes a difference
yeah it is 98db, well spotted
Why did you put the mic in the other room when you were recording the CL80?
I'm not sure we did Marius but thanks for the input.
@@ZillaCabs Just joking ;)
But it does sound really thin and weird. Almost like something was out of phase. Typically, I have found them to sound somewhat like a V30 with less harsh highs and the mids rolled back a bit. It's strange to me that the one in the clip has so little body to its sound.
V30 and greenback for me
These geezers talk for 13 minutes before the shootout. And still forgot to tell the signal chain.
The G12H anniversary stood out for clarity and tonal range, followed by the Creamback and V30. Others were ok, a bit "dark and boxy" at times.
Cream, Green and V30 for me
I need a speaker with a scooped out 400hz but decent bass and upper mids/treble still
How precise to 400Hz does the attenuation have to be?
@@ZillaCabs I got a new amp and speakers since this comment and i'm good. The Eminence D12V8'S and the MT15 have way too much low mids for bedroom volume so they had to go. Got the WGS Reapers and Retro 30's and then i picked up a H&K Grandmeister 36. I will say though, the GM is great but the treble can be sharp anywhere too much past noon
IMO this was the order best to worst:
Creamback
Greenback
V30
H Anniversary
Classic Lead 80
G1265
I’d never heard the Creamback.
Still love the V30 , followed by the G12 H
Great effort, but would have been way more effective if you played the same riff with each speaker. This got a bit confusing!
Thanks for watching. The reason we didn't just record the same ten second clip for each speaker was we wanted to a bit more of a feel of how you would test speakers in a natural environment, almost like an A/B box between cabs. There are several ways of approaching it and each has its positives and negatives.
I dig these videos, but that is not an accurate representation of the G12-65. Those Mesa Stilettos are dark. They’re naturally going to pair better with brighter speakers, as this demo shows. The H30 and H75 speakers will tear your head off with high end, if that’s what you want. But they do pair well with darker amps.
Totally!
my wife said, can you turn it down, pretty though...
Yeah speaker comparisons aren't the most interesting things to listen to if that's not your thing.
13:18 13:46 13:54
14:12 14:40 14:50
15:00 15:18 15:22
15:28
Really? The standard 25W Greenback is again made in England? No need to splurge on the Heritages?
Yeah they are bringing production of a lot of those speakers back to the UK.... CL80, H anniversary, M greenback and a lot of the new releases (creamabcks, redback etc) are UK made too. The standard/classic series M greenback is still quite different to the Heritage speakers. It still does sound different.
@@ZillaCabs Interesting.... I have two Blackback G12M's from late 70's, and they are definitely more bitey than what everyone thinks of this model, I think standard reissue are like that too. Currently have them in X-pattern with two '87 G12T-75s (white label), and it's a really good combo so far.
Maybe you could look into fooling around with mixing speakers in one cab? Or also same speaker with different cab sizes? Except V30, Mesa has done homework on this already. I tried those G12M's before in a 4x12 cab, just two of them, with two other holes covered up, and it was way too sizzly, but maybe darker speakers would fare better in a bigger box on the other hand?
Thanks for your in-depth videos so far!
cream
green
V30
Thanks for watching
I don't think the microphone array suits some of these speakers very well, and makes others shine. some of them just sounded strange.
We use an SM57 and a Beyer M160 for most of our recordings, they are quite standard mics to use.
13:17
The Classic Lead sounds horrendous. I actually really like the G12H recorded, with the Creamback being very close.
I wouldn't say horrendous myself but it can be a little bit of a marmite speaker, and it's not very forgiving. Thanks for watching.
Less talkin, more rockin ! No time stamps ? 🤦🏼
If we talk less people comment that we should talk more. When we have no talking people complain as they don't understand the format.
You guys talk WAY toouch!
We get asked to. There aren't many people who deal with speakers all day everyday, so not many who have the insights we have. You can always skip the talking bits, that's cool, but lot of people come to us for our knowledge on speakers.