I really appreciate these videos! Nolly has such a wealth of knowledge, i could listen to you guys talking about speakers for hours on end ! Rawk on, greetings Philipp
These videos are SO addictive, that’s why we love Zilla. If you guys can feature the LCFR speaker, one my all-time favorites (the Legend V12 by Eminence), and the P50e that’d be awesome!
About to build a custom cab, and this just sold me on the greenbacks. V30’s sound amazing, but the greenback def has that extra sizzle (very appropriate description).
Thanks, I'm glad you like it. This was done in J and J studios in Bristol, The mics were SM57 and I think a AKG 414 but we normally use the Austrian Audio OC18 and SM57.
these videos are incredibly helpful, if possible please do the Marshall V30s found in the 1960BVs, those V30s are drastically different and i’m finding it hard to decide on which one. You guys have the best speaker comparisons for high gain, thank you!
Fascinating! I just splashed out on a Boogie Mk V 25 - quite a high-gain little amp! - and I'm really happy with how it sounds through Greenbacks. One is one of those recently-discontinued 20-watters (similar to/the same as the current EVH...?) in a closed-back Dinky 1x12 and the other is the 25-watt G12M in an open-back 1x12. They sound pretty good separately, but with both...as you say, it puts a smile on your face! 😁 They're definitely worth trying out for heavier or fuzzier settings, because you might be pleasantly surprised with the results. I know I was!
This was a lot harder than I thought it would be! I was listening to this on my laptop speakers and couldn't hear much of a difference - I had thought maybe the lead notes in A were too honky for a V30, but I listened again both on my phone and with headphones before checking, and I heard a sort of higher background sizzle I normally associate with higher gain V30s in A that my laptop speakers hadn't picked up on (and I found it interesting my phone speakers seemed to be better than my laptop's). Besides that, they are very similar! I normally think Greenbacks and Creambacks are smoother, with Creambacks being darker, while V30s tend to be a punchier sound.
I definitely preferred B which I think was a greenback, even though I was surprised how it sounded here. Much smoother and pleasant sounding to my ears than A. Keep them coming 👍
I've always loved the sound of the evh in the room with my 100w el34 evh head. I have played it with a 2x12 mesa with v30s but haven't had the chance to play it with any other speakers or mic any of them.
Great sound for sure from the M Greenback, but my concern would be its break-up behaviour. Bass could then become a problem at higher volumes if you're "just" using a 2x12 constellation with a total of 50W. Especially because it is not a very loud speaker; live you would natually crank the amp more. What do you think?
Thanks, its a 5150.... I don't know exactly what era, but its one of Nollys and I think he mentioned it was an early one, or at least one of the ones he likes the most... sorry that's a bit vague.
Been saying it for bit. GB 25 M's are great for heavy note definition. I have one 412 dedicated with them. I like to mix them when I run wet/dry with a 412 loaded with G12K-85's. Which the G12K-85's is the wet side.
Great comparison as per usual 👍. There has been a lot of talk of 8 vs 16 ohm speakers recently and their inherit differences. Could there be a valid argument that the perceived "darkness" in the greenback was the result of listening to the 8ohm variety of the speaker rather than the 16ohm version that most people would typically associate the greenback sound?
The voice coil is different between an 8 and 16 ohm version of a speaker, there being a difference in weight of the voice coil, if I remember right. It resulting in 16 ohm speakers being slightly brighter. It seems you could be right, as far as that being a potential factor.
Thinking about it, a 16 ohm speaker at 16 watts (just picking an easy number). It would require higher current in an 8 ohm speaker to be at 16 watts. So I'm guessing the voice coil wire has to be thicker with the 8 ohm speaker. Which would probably make it heavier.
A is V30 --> pronounced upper mids and tighter chugs. B is darker and has a little less punch. I've got a Blackback and it has noticably less punch than the high power Celestions that I've got. Very smooth speaker though and it sounds especially great in the room.
Incidentally, I've gradually stopped using anything but a medium magnet greenback style, be it an M65 creamback or a mojo bv25m the heavy magnet speakers compress way less but the highs aren't as sweet, so it makes sense to me that, drive on the level of limiting would strip away the differences in compression between M and V. I continue to occasionally put the H back into the mix and end up quickly unplugging it again. I'm about to downsize to a 1x12 at this point, just haven't because I feel like keeping the option open even if I never use it lol
It's funny how personal speakers can be, I was definitely more M than H for the last ten years but I keep turning back to the H now... maybe I've just blown my ears hahaha
The M greenbacks have a milder high end than some other modern speakers. The mid range has a very unique sound that is unmistakable. I feel they’re better suited to classic and hard rock. V30’s have a totally different midrange signature that I think makes them better suited for metal. For me, the V30 is better suited to modern high gain amps. I see the difference as the right tool for the job. As a side note, the EVH speaker sounded scooped by comparison to the others and the tone in this demo would have them in the weeds, not in the mix. Creamback 65 is a good spot between the G12M and V30. Just my opinions.
What's a G12-H green back? Same thing that was reissued as the Heritage H30? Then there's black back speakers too. Gordon flippin' Bennett! I am going to put the kettle on. 🤔 I've been playing for 40 years now. We did not fuss about that stuff when I was a '80s lad. We just wanted to know if it was Celestion speakers in the 4x12 or not and if the amp had valves in it or not. We did not really care what type of Celestion or what type of valves. That said, it's probably best we know the differences, just as long as we do not get too hung up on them I guess. Knowing your onions should result in better recordings. Some of my favourite NWOBHM albums from back in the day are not exactly top notch quality. Charming in a way, but not exactly Abbey Road standards.
Yeah there's the old grey back and creamback speakers too ;) .... In this, the H greenback would be the two heritage H speakers, the 30 watt ones in 55 and 75Hz. Definitely don't get hung up on what they are but it is the thing that turn the electrical signal in to pressure waves which we hear. It' probably more about not getting it wrong than getting it perfect if that makes sense. Thanks for watching.
You can clearly hear the annoying sizzle in V30s never liked them, at least on their own. Maybe mixed in with the greenbacks, which are smoother and more to my liking.
I'm confused by the video and viewer comments, because I've never considered the Greenback to be "sizzly". That's the V30, which is downright fizzy and shrill.
It just depends how you hear the speakers I guess. I'd definitely say they have some sizzle, not fizz but not really warm and smooth like they are often described. If you hear something different that's cool, we all listen to speakers in different ways.
It was Nollys 5150, I'm no expert on 5150s but I think it was one of the sought after earlier models. I think he mentions it in the first video, the V30 video. Thanks for watching
Well, Greenbacks are not always the same. A vintage (pre-Rola) Greenback differs from a contemporary one, G12M's and G12H's anyway do. V30's in principle are some sort of modernized version of them. Tighter bass, comparable midrange but a more intense treble range, which has a tendency to sound too scratchy and shrill in comparison. The sizzle of a V30 can be annoying sometimes, on the one hand, took me a while to start liking this speaker, it certainly is a plus for heavy tones, as they will cut through every mix, but standalone the tone is not so ear-pleasing. On the other hand I also had tested some "optimized" alternatives, like Demon, Veteran, Governor, but they sounded in comparison too smooth or more unbalanced to me, also in some way more boring and lifeless, especially it it comes to a vivind, intense harmonics reproduction, which certainly is a strength of a V30. One improvement, I found, was, to use a beam blocker and to dampen the back of the cabinet. Then it even can sound "bluesy" and really nice even for clean tones. But it certainly is not the best speaker for a 112 (open back) cabinet in my opinion, works best for me in a 412 or at least in a 212 closed back. Plus, it has to be played loud to sound good. The EVH has some - for me Greenback untypical - mid-scoop, which I do not like so much, while the Creambacks are in my opinion rather designed for modern amps with already tighter made bass, so the increased bass-response of the Creamback can compensate this. Can be useful sometimes, sometimes it also can become too much, depending on the amps. As an all round speaker I preferred the G12M, for really heavy stuff the V30. But the main difference for me is the power rating, 25W vs. 60W makes a difference. a 100W amp and a 212 G12M cabinet will not work, but a 212 V30 cabinet will do the job. If you use a power attenuator, power scaling or use less powerful amps, things can be different. If I use cab IR's, I like to blend them, in reality you needed a 312 cabinet with two G12M's and a single V30 to get some sort of balanced in-between sound, I think, due to the diffferent power ratings. In a 212 the V30 will dominate in my opinion, which maybe also can be nice, but I never tested it in reality. So maybe a G12M Creamback and a V30 harmonized better in a real cabinet, I think, to get a comparable result. Nice presentation, as always!
No one made him the authority, but he does spend a hell of a lot of time micing speakers and drums, which means his opinion is one of the most informed. Also with speakers he mostly works in a relatively narrow band of genres, which is why I wanted to work with him on this, (other than being a friend). I mostly work with everything other than what he does. Music is subjective and so are speakers, no one is right and no one is wrong, but I will say, as someone who has been doing this for twenty years and have spend a lot of time listen to speakers on recording and in the room, I always learn something from working with Nolly.
I really appreciate these videos!
Nolly has such a wealth of knowledge, i could listen to you guys talking about speakers for hours on end !
Rawk on, greetings Philipp
These videos of Zilla with Nolly are super informative.
Thanks mate, I'm glad you like them... there's loads to come.
These videos are SO addictive, that’s why we love Zilla. If you guys can feature the LCFR speaker, one my all-time favorites (the Legend V12 by Eminence), and the P50e that’d be awesome!
Thanks, that's really kind of you. I'll do my best to get some in.
Really loving these videos! I'm hoping you guys tested the hempback. I haven't really heard many demos of it, especially for metal.
About to build a custom cab, and this just sold me on the greenbacks. V30’s sound amazing, but the greenback def has that extra sizzle (very appropriate description).
Loving these videos, guys.
Thanks John, glad you like them mate. Paul.
A = V30 (more mids and volume). B = Greenback (smoother, less mids and softer).
This is exactly how I heard it
Doing the Lord's work. Thank you.
Thanks mate.
sounds really really good, different from the weird sizzly sound im used to associating with it
Yeah, sizzle is the word I now use for those. Glad you like it.
That EVH sounds really well in this recording.
It's a really cool speaker but I think it came out really well in this series. There's a longer video on it coming soon.
Awesome video!
How do your record usually? I mean what mic and interface, thanks.
Thanks, I'm glad you like it. This was done in J and J studios in Bristol, The mics were SM57 and I think a AKG 414 but we normally use the Austrian Audio OC18 and SM57.
@@ZillaCabsthanks a lot 🙂
And what interface or preamp do you use?
@@lovecraftmusic8717for the other videos we use the Audient ID44 with the built in pres!
Something that often gets unnoticed is that, greenbacks are key to get proper Alexi Laiho's tone from Children of Bodom.
I couldn't make a guess for this one, that particular Greenback had some form of sorcery going on.
these videos are incredibly helpful, if possible please do the Marshall V30s found in the 1960BVs, those V30s are drastically different and i’m finding it hard to decide on which one. You guys have the best speaker comparisons for high gain, thank you!
I've been using Greenbacks for high gain since I was 16, the smooth "scoop" that comes from the speaker is the cream on top!
Machine Head is famously known for using Greenbacks in heavier tone, i think. Burn My Eyes especially.
oooh, that's really interesting. Putting Davidian on right now!
Fascinating! I just splashed out on a Boogie Mk V 25 - quite a high-gain little amp! - and I'm really happy with how it sounds through Greenbacks. One is one of those recently-discontinued 20-watters (similar to/the same as the current EVH...?) in a closed-back Dinky 1x12 and the other is the 25-watt G12M in an open-back 1x12. They sound pretty good separately, but with both...as you say, it puts a smile on your face! 😁 They're definitely worth trying out for heavier or fuzzier settings, because you might be pleasantly surprised with the results. I know I was!
Which do you prefer? Let us know below!
Answer from the AB in...
5
4
3
2
1
.
.
.
.
A = V30 and B = Greenback
Prefer the Greenback here!
I prefered A and suspected that might be V30. GB is a bit mufled in comparison.
This was a lot harder than I thought it would be! I was listening to this on my laptop speakers and couldn't hear much of a difference - I had thought maybe the lead notes in A were too honky for a V30, but I listened again both on my phone and with headphones before checking, and I heard a sort of higher background sizzle I normally associate with higher gain V30s in A that my laptop speakers hadn't picked up on (and I found it interesting my phone speakers seemed to be better than my laptop's). Besides that, they are very similar! I normally think Greenbacks and Creambacks are smoother, with Creambacks being darker, while V30s tend to be a punchier sound.
@@TarenLeitzke 🤦
I definitely preferred B which I think was a greenback, even though I was surprised how it sounded here. Much smoother and pleasant sounding to my ears than A. Keep them coming 👍
I've always loved the sound of the evh in the room with my 100w el34 evh head. I have played it with a 2x12 mesa with v30s but haven't had the chance to play it with any other speakers or mic any of them.
What year is the greenback in this video? Sounds way different from mine...
It's a recent one, the last couple of years.
Great sound for sure from the M Greenback, but my concern would be its break-up behaviour. Bass could then become a problem at higher volumes if you're "just" using a 2x12 constellation with a total of 50W.
Especially because it is not a very loud speaker; live you would natually crank the amp more. What do you think?
"A" is a V30. A 2x12 with a v30 and greenback would sound amazing.
Great video. What amp is being used?
Thanks, its a 5150.... I don't know exactly what era, but its one of Nollys and I think he mentioned it was an early one, or at least one of the ones he likes the most... sorry that's a bit vague.
Gotta check out Weber Gray wolf, Eminence vm12-65, mojotone bv series and Greyhound!
Greenback’s have long been my favorite Celestion for Doom. Robb Flynn from Machine Head always made them sound great with his 5150.
Been saying it for bit. GB 25 M's are great for heavy note definition. I have one 412 dedicated with them. I like to mix them when I run wet/dry with a 412 loaded with G12K-85's. Which the G12K-85's is the wet side.
Great comparison as per usual 👍. There has been a lot of talk of 8 vs 16 ohm speakers recently and their inherit differences. Could there be a valid argument that the perceived "darkness" in the greenback was the result of listening to the 8ohm variety of the speaker rather than the 16ohm version that most people would typically associate the greenback sound?
The voice coil is different between an 8 and 16 ohm version of a speaker, there being a difference in weight of the voice coil, if I remember right. It resulting in 16 ohm speakers being slightly brighter. It seems you could be right, as far as that being a potential factor.
Thinking about it, a 16 ohm speaker at 16 watts (just picking an easy number). It would require higher current in an 8 ohm speaker to be at 16 watts. So I'm guessing the voice coil wire has to be thicker with the 8 ohm speaker. Which would probably make it heavier.
8 ohm speaker would be at just over 1.4A at 16 watts.
Instant like
haha that's very kind of you mate.
A is V30 --> pronounced upper mids and tighter chugs. B is darker and has a little less punch. I've got a Blackback and it has noticably less punch than the high power Celestions that I've got. Very smooth speaker though and it sounds especially great in the room.
Incidentally, I've gradually stopped using anything but a medium magnet greenback style, be it an M65 creamback or a mojo bv25m the heavy magnet speakers compress way less but the highs aren't as sweet, so it makes sense to me that, drive on the level of limiting would strip away the differences in compression between M and V. I continue to occasionally put the H back into the mix and end up quickly unplugging it again. I'm about to downsize to a 1x12 at this point, just haven't because I feel like keeping the option open even if I never use it lol
It's funny how personal speakers can be, I was definitely more M than H for the last ten years but I keep turning back to the H now... maybe I've just blown my ears hahaha
Greenback sounds great.
The M greenbacks have a milder high end than some other modern speakers. The mid range has a very unique sound that is unmistakable.
I feel they’re better suited to classic and hard rock.
V30’s have a totally different midrange signature that I think makes them better suited for metal. For me, the V30 is better suited to modern high gain amps.
I see the difference as the right tool for the job.
As a side note, the EVH speaker sounded scooped by comparison to the others and the tone in this demo would have them in the weeds, not in the mix.
Creamback 65 is a good spot between the G12M and V30.
Just my opinions.
The EVH voiced green backs are the best bang for your buck.
🔥
Thanks
What are the speaker codes used in this video?
What's a G12-H green back? Same thing that was reissued as the Heritage H30? Then there's black back speakers too. Gordon flippin' Bennett! I am going to put the kettle on. 🤔
I've been playing for 40 years now. We did not fuss about that stuff when I was a '80s lad. We just wanted to know if it was Celestion speakers in the 4x12 or not and if the amp had valves in it or not. We did not really care what type of Celestion or what type of valves.
That said, it's probably best we know the differences, just as long as we do not get too hung up on them I guess. Knowing your onions should result in better recordings. Some of my favourite NWOBHM albums from back in the day are not exactly top notch quality. Charming in a way, but not exactly Abbey Road standards.
Yeah there's the old grey back and creamback speakers too ;) .... In this, the H greenback would be the two heritage H speakers, the 30 watt ones in 55 and 75Hz.
Definitely don't get hung up on what they are but it is the thing that turn the electrical signal in to pressure waves which we hear. It' probably more about not getting it wrong than getting it perfect if that makes sense. Thanks for watching.
Using TV, I prefer B, more "balanced" and focused, tight, A more "open" and maybe lacking bass?
I preferred A, the V30. I felt it has a much wider range of sound ... whatever that means :-)
Greenbacks are the MVP
You can clearly hear the annoying sizzle in V30s never liked them, at least on their own. Maybe mixed in with the greenbacks, which are smoother and more to my liking.
I'm confused by the video and viewer comments, because I've never considered the Greenback to be "sizzly". That's the V30, which is downright fizzy and shrill.
It just depends how you hear the speakers I guess. I'd definitely say they have some sizzle, not fizz but not really warm and smooth like they are often described. If you hear something different that's cool, we all listen to speakers in different ways.
which amp was used?
It was Nollys 5150, I'm no expert on 5150s but I think it was one of the sought after earlier models. I think he mentions it in the first video, the V30 video. Thanks for watching
Well, Greenbacks are not always the same. A vintage (pre-Rola) Greenback differs from a contemporary one, G12M's and G12H's anyway do. V30's in principle are some sort of modernized version of them. Tighter bass, comparable midrange but a more intense treble range, which has a tendency to sound too scratchy and shrill in comparison.
The sizzle of a V30 can be annoying sometimes, on the one hand, took me a while to start liking this speaker, it certainly is a plus for heavy tones, as they will cut through every mix, but standalone the tone is not so ear-pleasing. On the other hand I also had tested some "optimized" alternatives, like Demon, Veteran, Governor, but they sounded in comparison too smooth or more unbalanced to me, also in some way more boring and lifeless, especially it it comes to a vivind, intense harmonics reproduction, which certainly is a strength of a V30.
One improvement, I found, was, to use a beam blocker and to dampen the back of the cabinet. Then it even can sound "bluesy" and really nice even for clean tones. But it certainly is not the best speaker for a 112 (open back) cabinet in my opinion, works best for me in a 412 or at least in a 212 closed back. Plus, it has to be played loud to sound good.
The EVH has some - for me Greenback untypical - mid-scoop, which I do not like so much, while the Creambacks are in my opinion rather designed for modern amps with already tighter made bass, so the increased bass-response of the Creamback can compensate this.
Can be useful sometimes, sometimes it also can become too much, depending on the amps.
As an all round speaker I preferred the G12M, for really heavy stuff the V30.
But the main difference for me is the power rating, 25W vs. 60W makes a difference. a 100W amp and a 212 G12M cabinet will not work, but a 212 V30 cabinet will do the job. If you use a power attenuator, power scaling or use less powerful amps, things can be different.
If I use cab IR's, I like to blend them, in reality you needed a 312 cabinet with two G12M's and a single V30 to get some sort of balanced in-between sound, I think, due to the diffferent power ratings. In a 212 the V30 will dominate in my opinion, which maybe also can be nice, but I never tested it in reality. So maybe a G12M Creamback and a V30 harmonized better in a real cabinet, I think, to get a comparable result.
Nice presentation, as always!
Actual for me it's the Herotage 20 watts 75 hz
Yeah it's a nice one. The EVH did really well in this series and although it's not exactly the same they are pretty close.
A is the v30
A-V30 B-Greenbacks
A, V30. B, greenback
Yep A = V30 for sure.
A is greenback
i would say the greenback is b.
A- Greenback
Definitely never heard ANY greenback sound like that. Normally it’s a sizzly fart. Must’ve gotten a magic one
I agree I had a 2x12 with them and was not a fan at all
Greenback for metal? Stuck Mojo in 1999 and 2001 says khello.
V30 = a
Greenback = b
Who made Nolly the authority on speakers? His albums sound pretty bland...
No one made him the authority, but he does spend a hell of a lot of time micing speakers and drums, which means his opinion is one of the most informed. Also with speakers he mostly works in a relatively narrow band of genres, which is why I wanted to work with him on this, (other than being a friend). I mostly work with everything other than what he does. Music is subjective and so are speakers, no one is right and no one is wrong, but I will say, as someone who has been doing this for twenty years and have spend a lot of time listen to speakers on recording and in the room, I always learn something from working with Nolly.
A is greenback