1st 6.5 just caught the right edge that was magically painted over when we saw the group. But you did group 5 after that. Just goes to show that no matter the round, skill at wind calling is critical for long range with any round.
He took a shot with the 308 without the downrange camera set up nor the spotting scope. Without explanation it could be just reading wind before executing the group for each caliber. You notice in the audio and video of each group there is noticeable wind in the 6.5 group, where the 308 was dead quiet and still. If the first shot holding center is far right on the plate, 308 or 6.5 doesn't matter, it stands to reason why someone would make a scope adjustment or hold left so your group stands on the target. It was clear the 6.5 was drilling it even with the wind, which likely meant he was extremely lucky the wind helped the group or the wind was extremely consistent along with the rifle.
It’s more like comparing two rifles instead of the 6.5 and 308. What would be a better comparison is to use the same make and model of rifles in each caliber.
@@Syxtus_outdoors oh yea really. If you want to compare the difference between two cartridges it’s best to use the same barrel length and same rifles to keep it about the cartridges not the rifles.
@@Syxtus_outdoors I second Patriot's comment. There's a reason precision shooters prefer after market chassis and pistol grips. Makes a noticeable difference.
I agree with you 100%. I like my AK a lot more than I like my AR. I will tell you the 223 round is much better round that the 7.62. I have shown a few people the supremacy of the AK in an urban battlefield when I was teaching then how to shoot in Arizona. If you take an AR platform in 223 and compare it with the AR platform in the 7.62. The 223 will out perform the 7.62. If anyone reading this has any questions then I will answer it. If you ask a dumbass question you get a dumbass answer.
Indeed, a proverbial "apples to oranges" comparison. As a staff engineer at NIST (National Institute of Standards & Technology) great pains and considerations to reduce equipment deviation is necessary to achieve five sigma results. I have an Accuracy International AE MKIII on its second barrel in .308 Win that groups almost identically as a friends Surgeon Scalpel in 6.5 Creedmoor.
At about the 6:39 mark the first hit using 6.5 was noted to be on the far right aspect of the target approximately at the midpoint vertical axis. This was not measured at the end of the video and appeared to have been painted over. Why is that?
I resisted the 6.5 creedmoor for several years. Gave in and got the Savage Axis II Precision, in the MDT chasis, last summer, and it’s an incredible rifle. Can’t believe the groups it will shoot. First time I took it to distance, it was consistently hitting an 8” plate at 1,000 yards.
@@johnganshow5536 I have both .243 and .308 Savage Axis models. Only change is an MCarbo lightweight sear spring to get the trigger weight down. Both are ridiculously accurate for hunting rifles. Both are more accurate than I am, lol...
I'm starting to like the CM a little, being a 30 cal guy but I'm concerned it is a little light for elk if bone is hit. You can tell me all day long that accuracy counts, and it does, but should the wind pick up at distance it could throw off an accurate shot and now you may have a wounded elk running over the mountains into the next county.
In Arizona during the 90's I worked for the state corrections and was the number 1 sniper for the little prison in Globe/Miami. We got the 2nd hand Remington model 700 308 from the Phoenix prison as a hand me down as they got new weapons and later that year in mid Summer there was a state wide corrections tactical support unit (TSU) competition. Now I had shot guns as a kid in the 60's, 70's and up to the 90's but never in a competitive event. I came in second after having a miss fire. Told that was it and about 10 rounds later as me and my spotter are putting our weapons in the cave we are told they have been during the sniper shoot all wrong and we have another chance! So we run back up the hill. I'm using a winter army jacket for a ground pad. It's mid summer in Winslow, Arizona. The gravel of the gun range is Hot! Plus we are the bastard step child of the main prison of Phoenix. We get no money for new things we just make do. So my ground pads a winter jacket and my head cover is the same damn thing! And boy it's hot. Plus I'm going to shoot a cold barrel against hot. At the end of the day I came in 2nd with a shoot off at 100 yards at 1in squares for the best group. It was a choice of 3 boxes and they called which box to start shooting in 5 seconds or less. 5 rounds in 10 seconds. 1st place beat me by a hair. I mean that. A hair. Back then we had about 20 officers to choose for TSU. Phoenix had all most 70 for their team. We placed 2nd for our Shotgun Team also. I loved that 308. First time shooting it before the competition and after. I got a few now. Love the caliber.
Thanks for sharing your story it was an interesting read. 308 is sure a very capable and fun to shoot cartridge its still one of my favorites, with new vld and eld bullets it certainly got a new lease on life. Thanks for watching!
Thanks for the video Coyote Whisperer, my buddy told me about the 6.5 Creedmoor for good first shooting caliber for hunting. On top of that, it even helps that we live in the same area so I know it works well in the Calgary area
@@itisfinishednowtimetoclean2723 like my wolf killing .243. Can shoot it all day, long range and shoot the second time if needed and still be on sight. 😉
I would still take the .308 because I would never be able to shoot anything past 150 yards here in it southeast due to vegetation. .308 as we all know is easier to find and cheaper. If you target shoot to 1000 yards, 6.5 makes sense. Great video and excellent shooting.
No question, the Creedmoor round is better at long ranges. As for the .308, the bullet isn't all that different from the 30-o6 I competed with back in 1963, and we used 165gr boattail bullets. Oh, and iron sights! Custom machined to a smaller aperture, but still iron sights. Rifles, match grade M1 Garand for the first few matches, then match grade M14s, the first time to my knowledge that the rifle was used in competition. We used Fr Riley KS ranges, and after a full day of shooting my right cheek was swollen and my shoulder was seriously bruised!
For me if it’s a choice of 6 mm up to 308 cal out to 600 yards I pick the 6.5 x 55 in 140 or 150 gr factory load , sweet shooting round , very similar ballistics to the creedmoor out to 600 yards
6.5 creed eas perfected to be more efficient in its class ! It has to have 1/8 twist to stabilize the elongated 140 grain bullet so it can stabilize the round to reach its maximum potential .
People say 6.5 creed is better. Yes you’re right ballistic wise. I like 308 because I can afford to shoot 2 rounds for every 1 round of 6.5 creed. The amount of practice and repetition I get will transfer over to 6.5 creed.
@@menumlor9365 factory prices are the nearly the same for premium ammo. 308 just has more affordable plinking ammo which is great for getting trigger time.
I really enjoyed this. I was timing the flight time of both. The .308 was an average of ~1.68 seconds. The 6.5mm was an average of ~ 1.4 seconds. I have a Savage model 12 with a boyds stock and a Vortex Diamondback scope. I'm just barely getting into hand loading as well. As a fairly new long distance shooter I was very impressed that you knew exactly what to dial in on your elevation for 1,000 yards. Looked like there was no wind that day. I was also really amused at that deer when it smelled something it didn't like. You probably could have had a decent kill shot with the Creedmore. I know it's too far but the accuracy was there. Great video. Thanks
Don Parker thanks for watching i really appreciate your comment. Having precision rifle and hand loading definitely makes it more enjoyable to shoot and getting really tight groups in the process, the difference between customized load and factory ammo is quite obvious in accuracy especially at longer ranges. You were very close in your times for bullet flight for each calibers being off just by fractions of the second, very good observation im very impressed! As for deer in the picture it was spooked by mhbscent on the camera which was few feet away from the target, i didn't have tags so it wasn't possible to harvest it also being out of season and at 1000 yards wouldn't be 100% ethical to do so. There was slight wind during 308 series but has picked up drastically an hour later when 6.5 creedmoor was shot. Thanks for watching and good luck in your reloading experience!
@@Syxtus_outdoors Question for you. Since I barely know what I'm doing, can I ask you what bullets and propellent you used for the 1,000 yard shots with the .308? I started doing this when practically nothing is available for reloads so i just got what what I could get. I'm using Hornady 150 gn SST bullets and Hornady 168 gr BTHP match bullets with IMR 4895 powder and Lapua brass. I'm loading the 168 gr bullets with 42 gn's of powder and the 150 gr bullets with 45.2 gr's of powder.
@@donparker1823 for my 308 im running 168gr Sierra tmk with 42.9gr of varget and lapua brass its a target bullet, it shoots sub moa at 100 yards. Good luck.
Talented shooter but far from a fair comparison, a chassis with pistol grip and a muzzle brake on the 308 would make it a little fairer if not using two of the same rifles chambered in each calibre with similar loads would be an ideal comparison. A penetration comparison at this distance would yield a different opinion too.
It's ok to have a favorite. Also, I think the Berger bullets are superior to the sierra match king bullets. Personally, I'd love to have a creedmore but since i already have everything to handload 308 and a pretty decent Ruger 308, I can't justify spending the extra cash for the creed. Nice to see a good video, love the bullet trace.
Dude that group is incredible. I would say that's probably a 4-5 inch group for sure. You had that one low and then put 4-5 in the same spot. That's incredible. My dad has the tac a1 too and I had a 3-3.5 inch group at 460. He's gotta bipod on it now. I wanna try to load it and see how I do then. Great shooting! Even the group with the .308 was spectacular. 1000 yards is a looooong way
I noted the 6.5 was a MUCH flatter round than the 308. Just watching the trajectory of the individual bullets in flight. That Tikka is the bomb. I had on in 308 and it was lights out.!!
That 6.5 is on point an so is your skills, great work my man. I just bought the Savage axis II 6.5, cant wait to get some range time. oh that camera is on my wish list.
To be a more effective comparison you should have shot from same rifle manufacturer, same bullet manufacturer try to keep everything as close to even as possible. Still the 6.5 will shoot flatter, but on the receiving end..the 308 has the power.
Good stuff. I want to stretch out my Bergara HMR in 300 prc. Need to find a spot like that. I also have a Ruger American 6.5 in a chassis that shoots great. I also have a 308 gas gun with an 18 inch Dracos straight jacket barrel. I need to do some long range test. I have Starline brass and Varget. Lapua brass for the Creedmoor.
Great shooting. Thank you for the video. Love to see a comparison of the Creedmoor with the 300 WSM. They are pretty similar but you don't see to much about the WSM. (my fav). Was thinking about getting a Creedmoor but they are so similar and I have a 308 already. Not sure.
@@slatsgrobneck7515 LOL I know the creedmoor is a lighter less energy less velocity round. N I love my 300WSM, but all the hub bub about the Creedmoor got me thinking maybe I should get one. LOL. Creedmoor for target I guess.
I just recently watched a Ron Spoolmer video comparing the. 308 Win versus the 6.5 Creedmoor out to that distance. He was talking about the bullet drop based on chart calculations with the .308 Win being about 93". And about 68" with the 6.5 Creedmoor. Both weapons being fired from a range of about 1000 yards. He preferred the 6.5 Creedmoor over the .308 Win for the very reason that was demonstrated here. Impressive, to say the least! 👏 Seeing is believing! By the way, I just subscribed to your channel as well.
Thanks for watching, my bullet drop for 308 is 33 moa and for 6.5cm is at 26moa so quite less dialing up and less margin for errors, i prefer 6.5cm as well its a well balanced cartridge especially in windy conditions.
my 308's drop about 430 inches at 1000 yd and are going subsonic right around the 820 yard mark with a drop of 220 inches or about 7.5 MILS. I can hit the 1000 yard targets at my local range but the e-target won't pick up subsonic bullets. The bullet trace is going right through the black. I just have too short of a barrel to get the velocity I need.
Everything about this production is great. However, it would have been cool to use the audio for the hit from the far away camera so we could hear the delay from 1000 yards. The delayed "bong" from the steel is one of my favorite parts of long range videos
Do you watch MarkandSamafterwork? I counted 5 seconds flight time in a recent vid. And that was only around 2300 yards, he has longer range hits. Incredible.
Some noise in the comments about the 175gr doing better in the 308. Probably true, that's why I load 175gr in my hand loads for long range 308, and 208 and 220 in my 30-06. But it doesn't make enough difference to invalidate these results. In 2019 the Army tested 175gr 7.62N vs 6.5C and concluded that the Creedmoor doubled the probability of first round hit at 1000Yd. While it's true that the 6.5C isn't black magic (This kind of trajectory benefit was well known from the ballistically identical 100+ year old 6.5x55 S). The reason the 6.5 was dropped by some militaries was the desire to make penetrator cored, tracer and incendiary bullets. Notice how long for caliber those specialty rounds are for 5.56mm and you can see why there was just no real stretch available in the already very long for caliber 6.5mm 140gr bullet. But if you are shooting big game and it's not wearing level 4 and you don't care whether it catches fire after you shoot it 6.5C is hard to beat. And it is so mild shooting it also makes a really nice fun to shoot long range plinker.
I have tried both 168gr and 175gr projectiles in 308 and went with 168s due to the fact that sd and es numbers were lower for these and as we know in long range shooting its paramount for any kind of consistency and predictability. Thanks for your input and happy shooting.
Was that a 24" barrel on the Savage ? I'm trying to decide between 6.5 and 308 on a new chassis right now . How do you think that 130 gr pill would do for Elk ? Good shooting .
Great shooting. I guess the first one that was almost off the target at 6.30 minute mark was your slighter for the 6.5. Still great shooting. I found the OTM 130gr box Berger ammo was producing sub MOA results at 1000 in my 6.5. Heck it was so good I just bought several boxes. I have the 6.5 rifle is the same as your 308.
This whole video was a waste of my time and sheer proof that you are a fan of the 6.5 as was stated rifles should have been apples to apples as well as ammo and to not state the first shot omision shows intent to hide it. I call BS.
Im not really impressed with Savage barrel quality mainly since they are non concentric which would make very long shots somewhat unpredictable but overall they are great rifles and with some handloading can definitely deliver. Thanks for watching!
One of the few things that people don't tell you about 6.5 creed is that it burns out your barrel fast. About 4-6k rounds later. whereas the 308 win will last 20k rounds.
Are the bbl lengths the same? Bullet weights differ. How accurate are these rifles @ 100, 300, 500 yds for comparison with your 1020yds? I was hoping to learn something useful but didn't.
@@malJohann don't be upset, a test shot is standard especially with the wind picking up where it was non-existent on the previous group. He also shot a test shot for 308 that wasn't recorded by the down range camera. 6.5 was drilling it even with the bit of wind, also maybe the 6.5 rifle is just a better shooter.
Regardless of calibre, an 11" group at 1000 yards is excellent marksmanship. I guess, to be truly scientific about the test, it would be two tikkas, same model. Regarding the science behind this test, I know that Tikka/Sako test every single barrel for sub moa accuracy, before leaving the factory? Do Savage do this? Point is, if Savage test for moa accuracy and tikka test for sub moa, considering the rifles you have used in the video, it's a draw 🤔
It’s not really fair to run a test against a 308 stock model with a precision 6.5 nor is it fair to use different types of ammo either. You want a fair comparison get 2 identical savage rifles in different calibers with the same brand and type of ammo and then you can call it fair
@@Syxtus_outdoors The gun and round comparison is good, I think you could have put a better group down on the .308. You had more time and movement off of the gun the way you were reloading, I think had you stayed on the gun during reloads your very good .308 group would have been closer to the 6.5 group. Still great shooting though.
@@kenbrown873 there was alot of unnecessary movement i agree, it has been corrected since i made the video, the 308 is still a great round for all types of shooting what really separates these two cartridges is vertical drop at longer ranges which wasn't mentioned in the video. At 1000 yards 6.5 has only 26 moa drop where 308 is at 33 so quite a substantial difference, 6.5 beats 308 in windage quite easily as well. Thanks for watching.
@@Syxtus_outdoors I agree both are great rounds, I have not shot much in recent years but I am looking to get back into shooting. My first thought was .308 and honestly didn't even consider anything else until I started looking into different gun manufactures and saw a lot of 6.5 being featured. Main reason I watched your video is I am heavily leaning toward the Tikka, I don't see many options as good for that price. My shooting past was .270 and .30 06, I love the .270.
ok... nice shooting! But between the 2 calibers and at that distance, which has the better penetration? I'm not going to speculate anything. Anyone have any data about that? thnx
Something is messed up your first shot was at 3clock with the creedmoor ,and when u went up it was gone painted over,someone is kidding there self Lmao joke
The very first shot with Creedmore was on right side edge of plate. What happened to that when you measured.? The Creedmore also appears to be in a waty better chasis then the stock of the 308. Will also help with group size
Five feet of drop in elevation on the .308 The 6.5 shoots a little flatter and with a little less windage adjustment. If your using a 168 g .308 win verse a 142g 6.5
Awesome shooting...watching you shoot the 6.5 made me giggle like a school girl...I loved it. Other than the chassis is the Tikka factory? I have a tikka varmint, Bone stock but haven't had it out that far yet...Id live to find some 130 bergers but all I have right now is 140 eldm and 143 eldxp
Tikka is 100% stock what really makes difference there is handloads i don't think groups would as tight with factory ammo and Burger bullets are really great just getting them is another story ill be switching to Hornady 130gr eldms soon they seem to be available almost everywhere, glad you enjoyed the video and happy shooting!
Never did like any 168 Sierra on the 1000 yard line. Normally I use 168 Hornady 42.0 grains IMR4895. When the wind picks up, I switch over to Lake City M118 173 grain special ball. That group is the same as my 1-10 twist M1A Super Ultra Match with open sights.
That deer walking into view of the target was PRICELESS!!!! Like Mother Nature calling "Dinner Delivery!" LOL
1st 6.5 just caught the right edge that was magically painted over when we saw the group. But you did group 5 after that. Just goes to show that no matter the round, skill at wind calling is critical for long range with any round.
Reading wind is everything.
I thought the same thing lol
Thought the same thing, what happened to the flyer?
Yeap it magically disappeared. So be fair about it. I guess that's y all of the extra shots were taken with the creedmore
He took a shot with the 308 without the downrange camera set up nor the spotting scope. Without explanation it could be just reading wind before executing the group for each caliber. You notice in the audio and video of each group there is noticeable wind in the 6.5 group, where the 308 was dead quiet and still. If the first shot holding center is far right on the plate, 308 or 6.5 doesn't matter, it stands to reason why someone would make a scope adjustment or hold left so your group stands on the target. It was clear the 6.5 was drilling it even with the wind, which likely meant he was extremely lucky the wind helped the group or the wind was extremely consistent along with the rifle.
It’s more like comparing two rifles instead of the 6.5 and 308. What would be a better comparison is to use the same make and model of rifles in each caliber.
Oh really lmao
@@Syxtus_outdoors oh yea really. If you want to compare the difference between two cartridges it’s best to use the same barrel length and same rifles to keep it about the cartridges not the rifles.
@@Syxtus_outdoors I second Patriot's comment. There's a reason precision shooters prefer after market chassis and pistol grips. Makes a noticeable difference.
I agree with you 100%. I like my AK a lot more than I like my AR. I will tell you the 223 round is much better round that the 7.62. I have shown a few people the supremacy of the AK in an urban battlefield when I was teaching then how to shoot in Arizona. If you take an AR platform in 223 and compare it with the AR platform in the 7.62. The 223 will out perform the 7.62.
If anyone reading this has any questions then I will answer it. If you ask a dumbass question you get a dumbass answer.
Indeed, a proverbial "apples to oranges" comparison. As a staff engineer at NIST (National Institute of Standards & Technology) great pains and considerations to reduce equipment deviation is necessary to achieve five sigma results. I have an Accuracy International AE MKIII on its second barrel in .308 Win that groups almost identically as a friends Surgeon Scalpel in 6.5 Creedmoor.
At about the 6:39 mark the first hit using 6.5 was noted to be on the far right aspect of the target approximately at the midpoint vertical axis. This was not measured at the end of the video and appeared to have been painted over. Why is that?
I apologize, I missed the comment where it was explained. Thank You
@@ghostfire319 yes it was a windage shot, wind has picked up quite a bit from shooting 308 series.
Saw that too
I have both 308 and 6.5 set up for long range... but I can't shoot with you brother.... that's about what I do at 6-700 yards... your sniper material
Your 308 is just inferior except with price per round. Admit it. Took me a while too. You'll come around lol
I resisted the 6.5 creedmoor for several years. Gave in and got the Savage Axis II Precision, in the MDT chasis, last summer, and it’s an incredible rifle. Can’t believe the groups it will shoot. First time I took it to distance, it was consistently hitting an 8” plate at 1,000 yards.
Savages are known for their accuracy, maybe it was more the rifle than the caliber...
@@johnganshow5536 I have both .243 and .308 Savage Axis models. Only change is an MCarbo lightweight sear spring to get the trigger weight down. Both are ridiculously accurate for hunting rifles. Both are more accurate than I am, lol...
I'm starting to like the CM a little, being a 30 cal guy but I'm concerned it is a little light for elk if bone is hit. You can tell me all day long that accuracy counts, and it does, but should the wind pick up at distance it could throw off an accurate shot and now you may have a wounded elk running over the mountains into the next county.
That deers reaction was hysterical ! ' wait, what that? It looks like that guy is shooting at this metal thing.. I'm outta here! '
A deer and double rainbow. Looks like the start of a Disney movie.
Hahaha...nearly became the star of field and stream😅
In Arizona during the 90's I worked for the state corrections and was the number 1 sniper for the little prison in Globe/Miami. We got the 2nd hand Remington model 700 308 from the Phoenix prison as a hand me down as they got new weapons and later that year in mid Summer there was a state wide corrections tactical support unit (TSU) competition. Now I had shot guns as a kid in the 60's, 70's and up to the 90's but never in a competitive event. I came in second after having a miss fire. Told that was it and about 10 rounds later as me and my spotter are putting our weapons in the cave we are told they have been during the sniper shoot all wrong and we have another chance! So we run back up the hill. I'm using a winter army jacket for a ground pad. It's mid summer in Winslow, Arizona. The gravel of the gun range is Hot! Plus we are the bastard step child of the main prison of Phoenix. We get no money for new things we just make do. So my ground pads a winter jacket and my head cover is the same damn thing! And boy it's hot. Plus I'm going to shoot a cold barrel against hot. At the end of the day I came in 2nd with a shoot off at 100 yards at 1in squares for the best group. It was a choice of 3 boxes and they called which box to start shooting in 5 seconds or less. 5 rounds in 10 seconds. 1st place beat me by a hair. I mean that. A hair. Back then we had about 20 officers to choose for TSU. Phoenix had all most 70 for their team. We placed 2nd for our Shotgun Team also. I loved that 308. First time shooting it before the competition and after. I got a few now. Love the caliber.
Thanks for sharing your story it was an interesting read.
308 is sure a very capable and fun to shoot cartridge its still one of my favorites, with new vld and eld bullets it certainly got a new lease on life.
Thanks for watching!
Thanks for the video Coyote Whisperer, my buddy told me about the 6.5 Creedmoor for good first shooting caliber for hunting. On top of that, it even helps that we live in the same area so I know it works well in the Calgary area
6.5 CM is also great for us females! I can handle 308, etc., but not all day long…. 6.5 “bring it”!!! Oh Yeah.
@@itisfinishednowtimetoclean2723 like my wolf killing .243. Can shoot it all day, long range and shoot the second time if needed and still be on sight. 😉
I would still take the .308 because I would never be able to shoot anything past 150 yards here in it southeast due to vegetation. .308 as we all know is easier to find and cheaper. If you target shoot to 1000 yards, 6.5 makes sense. Great video and excellent shooting.
Nice video. Thank you. Pretty cool to see that Coriolis Effect in real time
No question, the Creedmoor round is better at long ranges. As for the .308, the bullet isn't all that different from the 30-o6 I competed with back in 1963, and we used 165gr boattail bullets.
Oh, and iron sights! Custom machined to a smaller aperture, but still iron sights.
Rifles, match grade M1 Garand for the first few matches, then match grade M14s, the first time to my knowledge that the rifle was used in competition. We used Fr Riley KS ranges, and after a full day of shooting my right cheek was swollen and my shoulder was seriously bruised!
For me if it’s a choice of 6 mm up to 308 cal out to 600 yards I pick the 6.5 x 55 in 140 or 150 gr factory load , sweet shooting round , very similar ballistics to the creedmoor out to 600 yards
Crazy to see the arch.
Love the Tikka and amazed at your grouping!
6.5 creed eas perfected to be more efficient in its class ! It has to have 1/8 twist to stabilize the elongated 140 grain bullet so it can stabilize the round to reach its maximum potential .
this a cool fact, thanks for sharing!
Excellent video, images, info, sequences...100/100 !!! Thanks for share. Nice the 6.5 Creedmore performing
your precision is just insane
Thanks for the demonstration!
That 6.5 was ringing beautifully. Loved the impact sound with it.
Cool video, amazing shots!
People say 6.5 creed is better. Yes you’re right ballistic wise. I like 308 because I can afford to shoot 2 rounds for every 1 round of 6.5 creed. The amount of practice and repetition I get will transfer over to 6.5 creed.
The cost $/round evens out when you get into reloading where components such as bullets powder etc are identical in price.
True, but the vast majority of people don’t reload.
@@menumlor9365 factory prices are the nearly the same for premium ammo. 308 just has more affordable plinking ammo which is great for getting trigger time.
I really enjoyed this. I was timing the flight time of both. The .308 was an average of ~1.68 seconds. The 6.5mm was an average of ~ 1.4 seconds. I have a Savage model 12 with a boyds stock and a Vortex Diamondback scope. I'm just barely getting into hand loading as well. As a fairly new long distance shooter I was very impressed that you knew exactly what to dial in on your elevation for 1,000 yards. Looked like there was no wind that day. I was also really amused at that deer when it smelled something it didn't like. You probably could have had a decent kill shot with the Creedmore. I know it's too far but the accuracy was there. Great video. Thanks
Don Parker thanks for watching i really appreciate your comment.
Having precision rifle and hand loading definitely makes it more enjoyable to shoot and getting really tight groups in the process, the difference between customized load and factory ammo is quite obvious in accuracy especially at longer ranges.
You were very close in your times for bullet flight for each calibers being off just by fractions of the second, very good observation im very impressed!
As for deer in the picture it was spooked by mhbscent on the camera which was few feet away from the target, i didn't have tags so it wasn't possible to harvest it also being out of season and at 1000 yards wouldn't be 100% ethical to do so.
There was slight wind during 308 series but has picked up drastically an hour later when 6.5 creedmoor was shot.
Thanks for watching and good luck in your reloading experience!
@@Syxtus_outdoors Question for you. Since I barely know what I'm doing, can I ask you what bullets and propellent you used for the 1,000 yard shots with the .308? I started doing this when practically nothing is available for reloads so i just got what what I could get. I'm using Hornady 150 gn SST bullets and Hornady 168 gr BTHP match bullets with IMR 4895 powder and Lapua brass. I'm loading the 168 gr bullets with 42 gn's of powder and the 150 gr bullets with 45.2 gr's of powder.
@@donparker1823 for my 308 im running 168gr Sierra tmk with 42.9gr of varget and lapua brass its a target bullet, it shoots sub moa at 100 yards. Good luck.
Deer was smelling where had been there & Also probably smelled the fresh paint as well
Wet paint..spooked it my guess
Looked to be nearly ideal conditions. Good shooting!
Fine shooting. Best part of the video is that sunset. Thanks for a great vid.
You are a good shooter man ! Little jealous of your spot where I live I struggle to find long range open areas
Thanks man, it's hard to find places to shoot for sure.
Talented shooter but far from a fair comparison, a chassis with pistol grip and a muzzle brake on the 308 would make it a little fairer if not using two of the same rifles chambered in each calibre with similar loads would be an ideal comparison. A penetration comparison at this distance would yield a different opinion too.
Me thinks we have a Creedmoor hater in the house...
My take is that it reflects well on the accuracy of the 308 in a hunting rifle. Good shooting, no matter what.
I think it reflects fake news
It's ok to have a favorite. Also, I think the Berger bullets are superior to the sierra match king bullets. Personally, I'd love to have a creedmore but since i already have everything to handload 308 and a pretty decent Ruger 308, I can't justify spending the extra cash for the creed. Nice to see a good video, love the bullet trace.
Thanks for watching!👍
Good shooting. I’m a big fan of Berger Bullets and shoot that same 130gr and also their 135gr VLD. They are great on target and on game.
looks like you have them both sighted in very well...thats very good shooting !
Both rifles shoot amazing with hand loads, thanks for watching.
Dude that group is incredible. I would say that's probably a 4-5 inch group for sure. You had that one low and then put 4-5 in the same spot. That's incredible. My dad has the tac a1 too and I had a 3-3.5 inch group at 460. He's gotta bipod on it now. I wanna try to load it and see how I do then. Great shooting!
Even the group with the .308 was spectacular. 1000 yards is a looooong way
Thanks man that Tikka is an amazing rifle ive never shot anything more accurate than this.
@@Syxtus_outdoors me either! The action is just insane too!
Awesome video. Thanks brother!
Great video brother!
that group with the 6.5 Creedmoor is exceptionally great.
Except for that first shot on the far right side of the target that disappeared.
@@patrickingram2098 read earlier- it was a windage shot since the wind had picked up between the two tests
Almost Unbelievable exceptionally great !
I noted the 6.5 was a MUCH flatter round than the 308. Just watching the trajectory of the individual bullets in flight. That Tikka is the bomb. I had on in 308 and it was lights out.!!
6.5cm is about 250ft/s faster than 308 therefore flatter drop curve, Tikkas are amazingly accurate especially with handloads.
Fantastic shooting!
That 6.5 grouping was gnarly.
Excellent shooting! Good video.
Did you paint over the first hit from the 6.5 which was 3’oclock right edge?
😅😅😅 that deer is like " hell no" I'm not crossing that.😅
Damn its sharp to see the bullets going down range,,,,the 6.5 didnt have quiet the arch,,id still rather have the 308 tho,,,just me
That 6.5 is on point an so is your skills, great work my man. I just bought the Savage axis II 6.5, cant wait to get some range time. oh that camera is on my wish list.
Picked up an Axis in 243 awhile ago, it is a real tack driver. MCarbo makes a spring kit for the Axis to get your trigger weights quite light.
To be a more effective comparison you should have shot from same rifle manufacturer, same bullet manufacturer try to keep everything as close to even as possible. Still the 6.5 will shoot flatter, but on the receiving end..the 308 has the power.
Good stuff. I want to stretch out my Bergara HMR in 300 prc. Need to find a spot like that. I also have a Ruger American 6.5 in a chassis that shoots great. I also have a 308 gas gun with an 18 inch Dracos straight jacket barrel. I need to do some long range test. I have Starline brass and Varget. Lapua brass for the Creedmoor.
Love those vapor trails.
TBH the majority of those 6.5 CM shots fell within a 3-4 inch group, which is truly remarkable at 1,000 yds.
Its pretty amazing how accurate that 6.5cm tikka is, plus combined with stellar load it doesn't get much better than that.
Thanks for watching!
I love that camera and your shooting is great. Thanks for an awesome vid. Thumbs up.
Thanks, glad you enjoyed.
That volley!! nice shooting.. was out this weekend hitting a 10 inch plate at 500 yards with the 6.5c. Maybe a 5 inch drop. For center mass.
Great shooting. Thank you for the video. Love to see a comparison of the Creedmoor with the 300 WSM. They are pretty similar but you don't see to much about the WSM. (my fav). Was thinking about getting a Creedmoor but they are so similar and I have a 308 already. Not sure.
6.5 cm is a great caliber, the vld bullets in it make a lot of difference down range and real pleasure to shoot, thanks for watching!
What is similar about the creedmore and the 300wsm? They both use powder, primer and a case?
@@slatsgrobneck7515 LOL I know the creedmoor is a lighter less energy less velocity round. N I love my 300WSM, but all the hub bub about the Creedmoor got me thinking maybe I should get one. LOL. Creedmoor for target I guess.
Amazing shooting!!!
Damn good shooting bud!!
Awesome shooting!
Whose group is better, it goes to the guy who controls the spray paint can who wins. I suppose we're not supposed to believe our lying eyes either.
You can see the bullet travel and the ripples of air in the bigger screen
.. looks awesome
Nice groups 👌🏻
What happened to the first shot with the 6.5. did you take out your flyer on the edge to keep the group smaller?
Though I agree with it should be the same rifle to compare shells, impressive none the less
I just recently watched a Ron Spoolmer video comparing the. 308 Win versus the 6.5 Creedmoor out to that distance.
He was talking about the bullet drop based on chart calculations with the .308 Win being about 93". And about 68" with the 6.5 Creedmoor. Both weapons being fired from a range of about 1000 yards.
He preferred the 6.5 Creedmoor over the .308 Win for the very reason that was demonstrated here.
Impressive, to say the least! 👏
Seeing is believing!
By the way, I just subscribed to your channel as well.
Thanks for watching, my bullet drop for 308 is 33 moa and for 6.5cm is at 26moa so quite less dialing up and less margin for errors, i prefer 6.5cm as well its a well balanced cartridge especially in windy conditions.
my 308's drop about 430 inches at 1000 yd and are going subsonic right around the 820 yard mark with a drop of 220 inches or about 7.5 MILS. I can hit the 1000 yard targets at my local range but the e-target won't pick up subsonic bullets. The bullet trace is going right through the black. I just have too short of a barrel to get the velocity I need.
Everything about this production is great. However, it would have been cool to use the audio for the hit from the far away camera so we could hear the delay from 1000 yards. The delayed "bong" from the steel is one of my favorite parts of long range videos
If you listen really carefully you can hear the delayed gong sound its about 1.5s after bullet hits the steel.
Do you watch MarkandSamafterwork? I counted 5 seconds flight time in a recent vid. And that was only around 2300 yards, he has longer range hits. Incredible.
@@slatsgrobneck7515 yes, that is a wonderful channel
Some noise in the comments about the 175gr doing better in the 308. Probably true, that's why I load 175gr in my hand loads for long range 308, and 208 and 220 in my 30-06. But it doesn't make enough difference to invalidate these results. In 2019 the Army tested 175gr 7.62N vs 6.5C and concluded that the Creedmoor doubled the probability of first round hit at 1000Yd. While it's true that the 6.5C isn't black magic (This kind of trajectory benefit was well known from the ballistically identical 100+ year old 6.5x55 S). The reason the 6.5 was dropped by some militaries was the desire to make penetrator cored, tracer and incendiary bullets. Notice how long for caliber those specialty rounds are for 5.56mm and you can see why there was just no real stretch available in the already very long for caliber 6.5mm 140gr bullet. But if you are shooting big game and it's not wearing level 4 and you don't care whether it catches fire after you shoot it 6.5C is hard to beat. And it is so mild shooting it also makes a really nice fun to shoot long range plinker.
I have tried both 168gr and 175gr projectiles in 308 and went with 168s due to the fact that sd and es numbers were lower for these and as we know in long range shooting its paramount for any kind of consistency and predictability.
Thanks for your input and happy shooting.
Was that a 24" barrel on the Savage ? I'm trying to decide between 6.5 and 308 on a new chassis right now . How do you think that 130 gr pill would do for Elk ? Good shooting .
Nice shooting dude, I only wish I have somewhere like that to practice.
Thanks, it feels really great to come out and shoot without being bothered by anyone.
What happen to the first 6.5 round it looked to be at 4 o'clock. I personally like the. 308. Great video 📹
First shot out of the 6.5cm was off due to not accounting for the wind so i didn't include it and painted it over, thanks!
Great shooting. I guess the first one that was almost off the target at 6.30 minute mark was your slighter for the 6.5. Still great shooting. I found the OTM 130gr box Berger ammo was producing sub MOA results at 1000 in my 6.5. Heck it was so good I just bought several boxes. I have the 6.5 rifle is the same as your 308.
Yes the first shot from 6.5 was a windage shot, those 130gr otms are amazing, thanks for watching and happy shooting.
Let’s just forget that first Creedmore hit. :)
Does anybody else immediately start measuring breaths when he pulls the video box with the target up? Autonomic response is funny 😃
Yep.
what happened to the hit that hit on the right side of the target? I think you sprayed white paint on it to make the group smaller
It was dismissed as a first shot, i adjusted windage and shot additional 2 shot to compensate for that.
It's like taking a bogey on the first hole....
This whole video was a waste of my time and sheer proof that you are a fan of the 6.5 as was stated rifles should have been apples to apples as well as ammo and to not state the first shot omision shows intent to hide it. I call BS.
Love the mulligan! Great shooting
@@elih6045 u wasted more time by typing your stupid comment!
Damn nice group on the 6.5.... I love mine so much I bought another LOL
Glad you are shooting the Savage
9+1 rifle. Also known as the model
2+ 16 halved. Great shooting!
99 and one half percent of the
Time!
Im not really impressed with Savage barrel quality mainly since they are non concentric which would make very long shots somewhat unpredictable but overall they are great rifles and with some handloading can definitely deliver.
Thanks for watching!
@@Syxtus_outdoors you are correct. For the guy who hunts
In wooded or rolling terrain they
Get the job done. I give the video
A 9 and 1/2.
Two completely different rifle set ups...not an accurate comparison...just saying
One of the few things that people don't tell you about 6.5 creed is that it burns out your barrel fast. About 4-6k rounds later. whereas the 308 win will last 20k rounds.
Didn’t realize that 🙌
That's good shooting those 65 are very good I highly recommend them I have 3
The deers spider sense kicked in and it was like nope not today
Are the bbl lengths the same? Bullet weights differ. How accurate are these rifles @ 100, 300, 500 yds for comparison with your 1020yds? I was hoping to learn something useful but didn't.
Wonderful. The 6.5 had a right drift in first Salvo. Look from closer it wasn't there.
That's why the 6.5 Creedmoor is KING
nice shooting!
Anyone notice that the first 6.5 creedmoor shot was at 0/10 but that mark wasn’t visible in the up close measurements?
He really wanted the Criedmore to perform better, even covered up the impact with paint.
@@malJohann don't be upset, a test shot is standard especially with the wind picking up where it was non-existent on the previous group. He also shot a test shot for 308 that wasn't recorded by the down range camera. 6.5 was drilling it even with the bit of wind, also maybe the 6.5 rifle is just a better shooter.
What happened to that first shot with 6.5 that was right edge, it magically disappeared when measuring?
Regardless of calibre, an 11" group at 1000 yards is excellent marksmanship. I guess, to be truly scientific about the test, it would be two tikkas, same model. Regarding the science behind this test, I know that Tikka/Sako test every single barrel for sub moa accuracy, before leaving the factory? Do Savage do this? Point is, if Savage test for moa accuracy and tikka test for sub moa, considering the rifles you have used in the video, it's a draw 🤔
It’s not really fair to run a test against a 308 stock model with a precision 6.5 nor is it fair to use different types of ammo either. You want a fair comparison get 2 identical savage rifles in different calibers with the same brand and type of ammo and then you can call it fair
Maybe do some reading on guns first before typing your comments.
@@Syxtus_outdoors The gun and round comparison is good, I think you could have put a better group down on the .308. You had more time and movement off of the gun the way you were reloading, I think had you stayed on the gun during reloads your very good .308 group would have been closer to the 6.5 group. Still great shooting though.
@@kenbrown873 there was alot of unnecessary movement i agree, it has been corrected since i made the video, the 308 is still a great round for all types of shooting what really separates these two cartridges is vertical drop at longer ranges which wasn't mentioned in the video.
At 1000 yards 6.5 has only 26 moa drop where 308 is at 33 so quite a substantial difference, 6.5 beats 308 in windage quite easily as well.
Thanks for watching.
@@Syxtus_outdoors I agree both are great rounds, I have not shot much in recent years but I am looking to get back into shooting. My first thought was .308 and honestly didn't even consider anything else until I started looking into different gun manufactures and saw a lot of 6.5 being featured. Main reason I watched your video is I am heavily leaning toward the Tikka, I don't see many options as good for that price. My shooting past was .270 and .30 06, I love the .270.
ok... nice shooting! But between the 2 calibers and at that distance, which has the better penetration? I'm not going to speculate anything. Anyone have any data about that? thnx
If you had taken that far right shot with the .308 as a bogey they would be the same grouping.
Exactly right.
Hi, there, nice comparison, could u tell me the name of that nice monutain area at the beginning of the film...? thanx
Those are Canadian Rockies in the background and thats just west of Calgary, thanks for watching and glad you enjoyed it.
Something is messed up your first shot was at 3clock with the creedmoor ,and when u went up it was gone painted over,someone is kidding there self Lmao joke
Great shooting skill
The very first shot with Creedmore was on right side edge of plate. What happened to that when you measured.? The Creedmore also appears to be in a waty better chasis then the stock of the 308. Will also help with group size
Good shooting tex
That deer runs in halfway through the video like oh hey whats up, what are ya''ll doin out here.. oh wait....
Good shooting, friend
what happened to the first shot with the 6.5 ? it seems to have disappeared .
Shoulda both use match barrel, BTW, how can you compare Savage to Tikka?
I have a savage 10t-sr in 6.5cm and it shoots a smaller group that the tikka lol
Five feet of drop in elevation on the .308
The 6.5 shoots a little flatter and with a little less windage adjustment.
If your using a 168 g .308 win verse a 142g 6.5
Awesome shooting...watching you shoot the 6.5 made me giggle like a school girl...I loved it. Other than the chassis is the Tikka factory? I have a tikka varmint, Bone stock but haven't had it out that far yet...Id live to find some 130 bergers but all I have right now is 140 eldm and 143 eldxp
Tikka is 100% stock what really makes difference there is handloads i don't think groups would as tight with factory ammo and Burger bullets are really great just getting them is another story ill be switching to Hornady 130gr eldms soon they seem to be available almost everywhere, glad you enjoyed the video and happy shooting!
Never did like any 168 Sierra on the 1000 yard line. Normally I use 168 Hornady 42.0 grains IMR4895. When the wind picks up, I switch over to Lake City M118 173 grain special ball. That group is the same as my 1-10 twist M1A Super Ultra Match with open sights.
My 308 loves 168gr sierras and im just over 42gt of varget on that load it all depends on a gun.
Pretty awesome to see the vaper trail.
Am I the only one that saw the first shot flier with the 6.5 that was spray painted over right before he measured?
What a perfect day, Deer walked right in to frame
criticisms about the methodology aside, for the money that Savage is not bad. especially if you discard the most distant hit.
308 carries more energy past 6 or 800 yards unfortunately.
Dude, you were throwing darts with that Creedmoor.