Its summer of 2020 and I finally get my hands on the 454 NSW wheelset. That too secondhand however barely used by the previous owner. I feel a sense of achievement
I don't know hay... Lifting your FTP by 2 watts costs weeks of training, maybe even months. It's little, agreed, but it's 2 watts over an existing aero wheel that already saves watts.
Vincent Schütz He's spouting bollocks... 'Energising the air'. That implies energy is being lost to the air, which is the opposite of aerodynamic efficiency. They might be fast, but a lot of what he's saying is just crap.
Exactly! At 3:02 Si asked how does the saw-tooth actually reduce those side forces... the Engineer guy must have been thinking "dude, I've literally JUST explained that!"
skvedo hehe, right on. His facial expression just goes to "bzzzztpp, does not compute". He does put up a valiant effort in trying to translate the R&D speak for us though.
I love how he managed to simply carry on what he was saying after mentioning the $4000 price tag. Meanwhile I was having a heart attack on the floor...
Yes the deepest section is like 404, so it is aero. The shadow section is like 303, so it is like 303 in sidewind. Lets make a full suspension downhill bike whit aerobars and have the best of both worlds. That guy did say all the "right" things
Bla bla bla aerodynamics bla bla 3 watts bla bla bla 5 watts bla bla bla wind tunnel bla bla bla efficiency bla bla deepsection bla bla bla bla bla bla
Ernest Paul hahaha. Ernest Paul You are the man! the engineer probably just got bored and designed this ugly looking wheels while dumping on the toilet. i love cycling but its just getting RIDICKOLOUS.
It's two watts over what was Zipp's and everyone else's cutting edge stuff before these bad boys. Over your everyday Mavic Aksiums they probably save many many watts.
Exactly, two watts over probably the fastest wheelset in existence(or at least very very close) at 20-25 mph. I really don't think that was the take home though. The take home is that they are more stable in crosswinds plus side note they are 25 grams lighter and 2 watts faster on the flats. Plus this new shape will become a sought after feature which will hopefully make normal deep section wheel prices drop given enough time for the tech to trickle down. It like 11 speed, everyone was skeptical because it was only dura ace and it was expensive but now you can get 11 speed tiagra on a $1k road bike.
$4000 for a set of wheels!?!?! That's just ridiculous!!!! cycling is getting ridiculously expensive, call me cheap but I could get a decent bike power meter and wheels for that.
Way cool!!! I cycle 35 miles per day along Lake Michigan and deal with lots of cross wind. I'm eager to try those wheels. But US$4K -- ouch! I'll be saving for a couple of years and by then something even better may come out. It's too bad they take so much labor to build. It's going to limit their market tremendously. But hopefully, competitors will see the idea and someone will figure out how to do it cheaper. For example, instead of a carbon rim, could the same aero design be achieved with an injection-molded plastic sawtooth flaring attached to an aluminium alloy rim? The flaring would be non-structural so it wouldn't need to be strong or heavy.
Very good idea about molding plastic around aluminum construction. The cardboard spoke covering works, so your idea must make wonders. And the product will look nice unlike the card board with zip-ties around spokes.
D.Eldon I could buy a new bike every 2 years for the next 8 years for the price of those rims ! now I am no pro cyclist and I do ride every day but I could not see dropping that kind of cash for some rims . interesting technology though .
Hey GCN, could you make a video on tyres rolling resistance and comparison between different tyres and differences in results watts/speed etc.?? ;) I think some people don't know how much speed they could win by changing their tyres Love your channel from France :)
better vortex shedding! Finally! I was wondering when they'd figure it out. Next up, I'd like vacuum inducing dimples, so that the rims actual move through a vacuum, thereby eliminating drag altogether.
Introduction: Yes, it's faster (*according to Zipp) DT Swiss engineers would beg to differ. www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/product-news/wheels-inspired-by-whales-dont-work-because-they-create-more-drag-302735 Tubercules are designed as *control features*. Control features *increase drag*. Look at vortex generators on airplane wings. They create localized increases in turbulence so they can prevent chaotic boundary layer separation. They actually increase drag, *so they can provide lift* in near-stall situations. They do not make the wing more efficient. They make the wing less susceptible to stall. That's critical on an airplane because stall means you have no lift at all and the plane sinks like a stone - or loses all control and tears itself apart. Generally something to be avoided. On whales, those tubercules also decrease the size of the fins required to create the same control, allowing the whale to make very sharp turns for its size. These concepts are taken directly from Zipp's own "technical explanation". But they demonstrate that Zipp's engineers don't actually understand basic aerodynamic principles. So - can a wheel "stall"? Of course not. The speed of a wheel - and the design of it are not designed to create lift. As the guy at DT Swiss mentioned, the Reynolds numbers just don't work for this to be true. Zipp has been creating bullshit in so many layers, but why is GCN so willing to swallow it?
Hey Jarno, we're really proud of the brands we work with and also the way we work with them. But I am confused, what's the difference between our video and the reports from any other cycling media outlet? How can you test and analyse a product if you've only just seen it? That to my mind really would be disingenuous.
As the guy that got hate for pointing out the 'helmet guide' video was just a Kask sales promo, I don't feel they did the same thing with this one -- it's all about Zipp's new wheel and doesn't pretend to be anything else. It's simply a new product showcase. And to the video: all that money for just 3-5 watts and crosswind performance on par with 303s? They may look cool but that's a terrible price-to-benefit ratio.
Global Cycling Network Well, been a long time fan of the show, but lately the show just seems to become a big tell sell commercial. But the I can understand that you need the ads to survive, just dont "review" the products, just show them...
There is a big difference between paid, sponsored reviews and independent ones. Is GCN paid by Zipp to feature and review these? Do Si, and the rest of the gang give their honest opinions on these products? I enjoy GCN but what makes it credible are that all the presenters are former elite level cyclists outside of team sponsorship. If we are not getting honest feedback... well, that's a real disappointment. I do understand GCN is always upbeat and positive with content, but when it comes to products, don't fall the way of paid advertising. That's a quick death of credibility.
Guys, I think you need to rewatch the video. At what point does Si review them? At what point does he pass comment as his own? Jarno this is exactly what you said you wanted it to be, "showing" the product and not reviewing. We never, ever do reviews, as you point out we couldn't because of the way GCN is structured, but we know people want to see new tech, so we're showing them.
Let's think about this - Dura Ace 9150 Di2 ($4000)with power meter ($1500) Zipp 454 wheelset ($4000), Pinarello F8 X Light frameset ($8500) add in some bars, stem, seatpost, saddle , pedals, shoes, helmet, kit and $20,000 and I'm ready to ride!
Why it's a good thing this only offers a scant couple watts: 1. You don't need to buy nor feel the need to 2. It will feel that much more satisfying when passing someone spending this much on wheels.
Joseph Taylor The innovation in this isn't the watt saving, but the stabilty in side winds. This allows you to use these deep section rims, even when it's too windy and you would have to take a shallower rim.
Yeah, the rim is cool and all but my fave bit from the video is slo-mo Simon at 3:16. Such a cool cat! The other cyclist probably realised he peaked big that day :D
Those are sweet, but I'm pretty sure the only way I'm going to get my hands on a set of Zipp wheels comes down to if I won them in a contest/giveaway. My budget does not come close to being able to afford Zipp's any other way.
next step, the sawtooth profile will have empty space between both sides of the wheel. a bit like the Factor One bikes used by one pro cycling with the split downtube design (im sure there is a gcn video about it)
Just saw these up close and personal last night at my shop's yearly customer celebration and they do look "interesting" to say the least. 4K though??? Nah son.
I look to nature as well for how I shape my body. Whales and Big Bird are a huge inspiration.
loving the "say hi on your bike wave by Si" at 3.20ish
$4000 for 2-5 watts and I can take my hands off the bars!?
SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY.
im sold on the gimmick tooth technology
@@dsdf_fdp1858 smart buy indeed bro
LOL
Anyone else feel a little sorry for Si during that interview?
Wayfarer-Sailing not really, it isn't as complicated as it sounds.
I had the distinct impression that he was looking for an answer which didn't include the phrase "vortex shedding"...
kingsmeadow what wasn't the point?
yes it is. fluid dynamics is incredibly complicated...
Watched this while taking a large pressure dump.
They look like a very scientific bodge.
Its summer of 2020 and I finally get my hands on the 454 NSW wheelset. That too secondhand however barely used by the previous owner. I feel a sense of achievement
"The golden age of aero gains might seem over, but WAIT - here are some wheels that are 2-5 watts more efficient at 30 MPH!"
That editing in the beginning. Really dank.
NightVision110 true
How cool is this?!
I'd say 5/7
Where is the data?
+F1ying Finn hi fellow 9gager
This wheel is too cool for me....
hi can have a set of those wheels ??
I fell off my chair when he said the price!
I dont need that 2 watts if it looks this ugly. Its mentally slows me down.
In other words, it costs $1000 more for extra 2 watts since I believe their 404 NSW wheelset is a little over $3000.
Yeh the point is safety
Don't underestimate 2 watts over the coarse of a long ride :)
come on, its really nothing
I don't know hay... Lifting your FTP by 2 watts costs weeks of training, maybe even months. It's little, agreed, but it's 2 watts over an existing aero wheel that already saves watts.
Look at Si when the engineer is talking. He has no idea what he is talking about.
Well, it was pretty technical. I didn't understand much either.
I think he is busy looking impressed by the meaningless bubbles coming out of the mouth of this engineer...
Or the bubbles on the rim... but I think neither of which are meaningless.
Vincent Schütz He's spouting bollocks... 'Energising the air'. That implies energy is being lost to the air, which is the opposite of aerodynamic efficiency. They might be fast, but a lot of what he's saying is just crap.
Exactly! At 3:02 Si asked how does the saw-tooth actually reduce those side forces... the Engineer guy must have been thinking "dude, I've literally JUST explained that!"
This is old but this is Gold, the 454 started all the big wave of these types of wheels!
My cat gave this two paws up. He was completely captivated by the science explanation.
anyone else feel like he is making this up as he goes along?
Simons face expression when Michael talking is just: "Too much information"
skvedo hehe, right on. His facial expression just goes to "bzzzztpp, does not compute". He does put up a valiant effort in trying to translate the R&D speak for us though.
im sold on the gimmick tooth technology!
NSW. Not Safe for Wallet!!
XD
had to think whether we had april 1st when i saw this
Hi gcn i love your vids and watch every one. Keep Going!
Thanks!
I love how he managed to simply carry on what he was saying after mentioning the $4000 price tag. Meanwhile I was having a heart attack on the floor...
You know they're out of ideas when they start looking to whales for aero gains!
Cool Dog Not really. Nature has some pretty awesome solutions to engineering problems if you're willing to look.
OhAiShare I'm only joking. I know how advanced nature is but it's still a bit funny!
Another 3 or 4 years of evolving and whales will surely take to the air.
Derek Biggerstaff Oh of course, rumour has it that the whales have spies stealing aviation secrets from magpies.
Blue planet2 some awesome whales , I wouldn't like to out swim a Ocra
Might not mean much to other folks but I'm excited that the thermal camera used for that temperature test was made by the company I work at!
Simon and Michael proposing to the bike at the same time? damn that Canyons going to have to make some decisions.😉
4:41 No more pressure dump. That's a relief ...
Zipp guy sounded like he was in Marketing, not R&D. Cool wheels though. Just not $4k cool.
Yes the deepest section is like 404, so it is aero. The shadow section is like 303, so it is like 303 in sidewind. Lets make a full suspension downhill bike whit aerobars and have the best of both worlds. That guy did say all the "right" things
His job is to sell R&D ;)
so this is why the zipp gurus are on the channel at 20:00 gmt. Nice!
Bla bla bla aerodynamics bla bla 3 watts bla bla bla 5 watts bla bla bla wind tunnel bla bla bla efficiency bla bla deepsection bla bla bla bla bla bla
Bla bla bla bla $4000
Ernest Paul that is exactly what I wanted to say :D
These wheels ride themselves :)
Marketing nonsense and GCN is buying it without any critical note.
Ernest Paul hahaha. Ernest Paul You are the man! the engineer probably just got bored and designed this ugly looking wheels while dumping on the toilet. i love cycling but its just getting RIDICKOLOUS.
Okay! My list to Santa is done!!! Just going to try to not be a naughty boy this last month!
Well done ZIPP for gaining two watts! Now go and try to figure out how to build good hubs, 'cause everything till now has been sh*t.
These also come with a brand new hub
The've done that before aswell. #timewilltell
Yeah, hopefully it turns out ok! I do agree hubs in the past have been pretty bad.
It's two watts over what was Zipp's and everyone else's cutting edge stuff before these bad boys. Over your everyday Mavic Aksiums they probably save many many watts.
Exactly, two watts over probably the fastest wheelset in existence(or at least very very close) at 20-25 mph. I really don't think that was the take home though. The take home is that they are more stable in crosswinds plus side note they are 25 grams lighter and 2 watts faster on the flats. Plus this new shape will become a sought after feature which will hopefully make normal deep section wheel prices drop given enough time for the tech to trickle down. It like 11 speed, everyone was skeptical because it was only dura ace and it was expensive but now you can get 11 speed tiagra on a $1k road bike.
Think the guy at 3:20 needs to know how to say hello on the bike!
$4000 for a set of wheels!?!?! That's just ridiculous!!!! cycling is getting ridiculously expensive, call me cheap but I could get a decent bike power meter and wheels for that.
You can get a set from China for $350.
Dude for 4000$ I could buy a used decent car plus used decent bike.
That's a nice In the Zone greeting from Si at 3:19. #sayhionyourride
Way cool!!! I cycle 35 miles per day along Lake Michigan and deal with lots of cross wind. I'm eager to try those wheels. But US$4K -- ouch! I'll be saving for a couple of years and by then something even better may come out. It's too bad they take so much labor to build. It's going to limit their market tremendously. But hopefully, competitors will see the idea and someone will figure out how to do it cheaper. For example, instead of a carbon rim, could the same aero design be achieved with an injection-molded plastic sawtooth flaring attached to an aluminium alloy rim? The flaring would be non-structural so it wouldn't need to be strong or heavy.
Very good idea about molding plastic around aluminum construction. The cardboard spoke covering works, so your idea must make wonders. And the product will look nice unlike the card board with zip-ties around spokes.
D.Eldon I could buy a new bike every 2 years for the next 8 years for the price of those rims ! now I am no pro cyclist and I do ride every day but I could not see dropping that kind of cash for some rims . interesting technology though .
Erm is that Si actually waving to another rider?! 3:18... I'm still in shock just watching it for the tenth time!
Fitting to see that they are named NSW, being so closely related to 'not safe for work'.
Minimize quickly if people creep up
Hey GCN, could you make a video on tyres rolling resistance and comparison between different tyres and differences in results watts/speed etc.?? ;) I think some people don't know how much speed they could win by changing their tyres
Love your channel from France :)
I felt like he wasn't answering the questions that Si asked but the ones he wanted to answer. Like a politician
Love the socks
Wow, the engineer really explained the fluid dynamics of the saw toothed rim profile. Interesting!
Just found why I had bad speed wobble on the Vebtoux I did ask a while ago about it.
Thanks zipp
For a more simple version if you couldn't understand the engineer, the saw tooth help reduce the pressure but still are aero...
It looks like Simon was a little in over his head listening to Michael explain how these bad boys worked haha
Woooow, those 3 to 5 W I needed to win the TdF. I guess zipp is reinventing the ridiculousness.
I waited until I got home from work to watch because they're called NSW lol.
I love the scientific aspect of the videos, please more
Thanks guys
That engineer guy really didn't answer the questions Si had
better vortex shedding! Finally! I was wondering when they'd figure it out. Next up, I'd like vacuum inducing dimples, so that the rims actual move through a vacuum, thereby eliminating drag altogether.
Introduction: Yes, it's faster (*according to Zipp)
DT Swiss engineers would beg to differ. www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/product-news/wheels-inspired-by-whales-dont-work-because-they-create-more-drag-302735
Tubercules are designed as *control features*. Control features *increase drag*.
Look at vortex generators on airplane wings. They create localized increases in turbulence so they can prevent chaotic boundary layer separation. They actually increase drag, *so they can provide lift* in near-stall situations. They do not make the wing more efficient. They make the wing less susceptible to stall. That's critical on an airplane because stall means you have no lift at all and the plane sinks like a stone - or loses all control and tears itself apart. Generally something to be avoided.
On whales, those tubercules also decrease the size of the fins required to create the same control, allowing the whale to make very sharp turns for its size.
These concepts are taken directly from Zipp's own "technical explanation".
But they demonstrate that Zipp's engineers don't actually understand basic aerodynamic principles.
So - can a wheel "stall"? Of course not. The speed of a wheel - and the design of it are not designed to create lift. As the guy at DT Swiss mentioned, the Reynolds numbers just don't work for this to be true.
Zipp has been creating bullshit in so many layers, but why is GCN so willing to swallow it?
All these brake surface concern malarkey will end once everybody inevitably switched to disc specific wheels.
2017: The Year of Shedding the Pressure Bubble
Anyone else "enjoying" the crickets playing the fiddle at the background?
I really enjoy the interview I must say! I love your videos GCN.
Tested at 6W at 30mph 48Km/h! so about 1W at 35km/h
GCN now stands for Global Cash(in) Network for the industry. The (sublimal) ads become more more prominent. Canyon alone already pays 50k a year.
Hey Jarno, we're really proud of the brands we work with and also the way we work with them.
But I am confused, what's the difference between our video and the reports from any other cycling media outlet? How can you test and analyse a product if you've only just seen it? That to my mind really would be disingenuous.
As the guy that got hate for pointing out the 'helmet guide' video was just a Kask sales promo, I don't feel they did the same thing with this one -- it's all about Zipp's new wheel and doesn't pretend to be anything else. It's simply a new product showcase.
And to the video: all that money for just 3-5 watts and crosswind performance on par with 303s? They may look cool but that's a terrible price-to-benefit ratio.
Global Cycling Network Well, been a long time fan of the show, but lately the show just seems to become a big tell sell commercial. But the I can understand that you need the ads to survive, just dont "review" the products, just show them...
There is a big difference between paid, sponsored reviews and independent ones. Is GCN paid by Zipp to feature and review these?
Do Si, and the rest of the gang give their honest opinions on these products? I enjoy GCN but what makes it credible are that all the presenters are former elite level cyclists outside of team sponsorship. If we are not getting honest feedback... well, that's a real disappointment.
I do understand GCN is always upbeat and positive with content, but when it comes to products, don't fall the way of paid advertising. That's a quick death of credibility.
Guys, I think you need to rewatch the video. At what point does Si review them? At what point does he pass comment as his own? Jarno this is exactly what you said you wanted it to be, "showing" the product and not reviewing.
We never, ever do reviews, as you point out we couldn't because of the way GCN is structured, but we know people want to see new tech, so we're showing them.
Looks like Eagle Creek in Indy...been holding out on us for a weeks guys
3:17 slowmo of Si waving on somebody, everybody remember that
212 hours in a wind tunnel and his beard stayed ON #anchored
Never before have I audibly wowed on RUclips.
Very well presented. What a cool set of hoops.
Cheers.
the engineer should run for president.
Do I sense the next GCN Unboxing?? Or shall I say, GC-unboxing
i had a big pressure dump this morning, it felt pretty good
I feel sorry for canyon. to have such fugly wheels on that nice bike...
For such a minute difference, idk($4000!!!). But they look cool!
12 man hours !! Thats how long it takes Dan to style his hair, lol.
7:02
Spit my coffee out
Let's think about this - Dura Ace 9150 Di2 ($4000)with power meter ($1500) Zipp 454 wheelset ($4000), Pinarello F8 X Light frameset ($8500) add in some bars, stem, seatpost, saddle , pedals, shoes, helmet, kit and $20,000 and I'm ready to ride!
So 2000 USD per watt over the already very expensive 404 NSW. Right...
it's more about the crosswind tech than saving a couple watts
sadly no numbers on crosswind torque reduction :(
Realy cool and make from this a unboxing video
Hey guys, I'd like to see "carbon wheels being made in the factory" as Si said at the very end, probably an upcoming video? Cheers!
at this rate zipp wheels will soon offer negative drag at all yaw angles and will therefore be banned as a hidden motor.
Why it's a good thing this only offers a scant couple watts:
1. You don't need to buy nor feel the need to
2. It will feel that much more satisfying when passing someone spending this much on wheels.
4k? they better make me breakfast in the morning and clean the house
That music tho 🙌🏽
They've been working on it "for many years" and all that they can come up with is 2 watts at 30mph..?
Joseph Taylor The innovation in this isn't the watt saving, but the stabilty in side winds. This allows you to use these deep section rims, even when it's too windy and you would have to take a shallower rim.
Zipp 454 NSW Wheels with gimmick tooth technology makes it better
love the socks
with the higher temp testing on the brake surface, has Zipp figured out how to combat the brittleness of the resin?
Yeah, the rim is cool and all but my fave bit from the video is slo-mo Simon at 3:16. Such a cool cat! The other cyclist probably realised he peaked big that day :D
This new rim design helps counteract the lateral flex generated by Zipp's crappy hubs...
Interesting sock game from the beardy bloke from zipp...
I think Geraint Thomas would be the best test pilot for this project
Cool idea.
Wahhhhhh confused now, the other day you said 28mm tyres were more aero. Lucky I am a luddite and stuck on my old 23s for now. :)
Brian Steele tire aerodynamics depends on the wheel you use them on, but 25 is generally the most aero
Ah, not quite. 28s have lower rolling resistance, and on the right rims are only marginally less aerodynamic BUT, there is still a penalty.
Brian Steele I think Zipp claims that 25mm tires are the most aero. Different tests provide different results...
love your reviews Richardson
$4000 for a set of those? That's nutz.
Nice wave at 3:18 Si #dontridebysayhi
Not sure what looks stranger, the sawtooth rim or the Canyon on American roads
I love my Zipps !
I want to see Si ride the 454 with no hands and remove his wind breaker and put it in his back pocket
As soon as I get my sticky paws on a set I will do just that! Wish me luck...
Where is the data that they are talking about???
Those are sweet, but I'm pretty sure the only way I'm going to get my hands on a set of Zipp wheels comes down to if I won them in a contest/giveaway. My budget does not come close to being able to afford Zipp's any other way.
next step, the sawtooth profile will have empty space between both sides of the wheel. a bit like the Factor One bikes used by one pro cycling with the split downtube design (im sure there is a gcn video about it)
Oh crap.. Now my dentist is going to up my rates again so he can finance these...
I think the hubs are a great idea magnetic pawls for a much lower drag in the era of marginal gains why not
You need to throw these things on an older Pinarello Dogma. It'll make your bike look like a never ending wave. : )
I just watched the last gcn video ever
Just saw these up close and personal last night at my shop's yearly customer celebration and they do look "interesting" to say the least. 4K though??? Nah son.