still on stock alloy wheels. Already did tire, tpu tube and narrow handlebar upgrades. Next probably semi aero helmet. Then i'll look into wheels upgrade
Yes, I have upgraded my wheels from standard Aluminum to 40mm Carbon Wheels. I didn't go deeper because I was concerned about handling in cross winds. I am happy with the upgrade and definitely notice the difference when riding at faster speeds. I can maintain the pace longer at faster speeds.
Upgraded to some Roval Rapide CLX wheels over a year ago and one of the best upgrades I've done. Still light but the benefits are certainly noticeable on the flats. The wider profile (turns my 28mm s-works turbo tyres to 30mm) also makes for a far more comfortable ride.
Just replaced my Roval Rapide CLX with a pair of Vortex N6. IMO CLX are fast but much less responsive. Lateral stiffness is too weak compared to peers.
If you're interested in upgrading your wheels and don't want to spend Zipp money to do it, there are several quality Chinese wheelsets available. I've been riding a set of SuperTeam wheels for about three years now, thousands of miles on them and they're still as true as day 1 and look great. I paid under $300 for the 38mm set on sale through Amazon, but even at full price they're less than $400. I would stack them up against any top brand wheelset for the money. They make all different depth wheels, and after just checking, you can pick up a set of 88mm wheels for $399 through Amazon. Just read the reviews if you don't want to take my word for it.
Yoeleo C50’s for me. Been racing on them for three years and still dead straight. Also very good results in independent tests and 1500£ cheaper than theese Zipps. 1500 £ spent on a more aero helmet, aero clothing, proper bikefit and a training coach will result in an advantage of 25-50 watts gained/saved compared to the 3-5 watts the Zipps probly margain to my yoeleo.
The 60-80 disk set is on sale for $270 prime. If they don't sell out. I just ordered the 38s for $250 and they will be here today, Needed a set of "beaters" for road tires on a Checkpoint. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
i have two pairs of tubeless disc superteam wheels. a 55mm set on my road bike and a 45mm wider set on my gravel bike. no issues with either set and it cost me
Comparing 80mm deep premium carbon rims with typical cheap , shallow, alloy wheels supplied with a bike - can only result in a very predictable outcome which suits the narrative of the ‘Paid Promotion’ tag . What might be more interesting to a typical enthusiast is a comparison of deep, premium Zipp wheels versus same depth premium (but fraction of the cost) chinese carbon wheels (winsoace perhaps?) This would be far more useful, but I’m guessing the outcome this doesnt quire fit in with what a ‘Paid Promotion’ vid is trying to out out there.
@@Nonixification actually there would be measurable difference. First of all, your wallet would be much lighter after purchasing Zipps in comparison with Winspace. And according to pretty solid reviews on YT, most comprehensive one by Luescher Teknik, you would get much better wheels out of Winspace, when come to spokes quality, build quality, stiffness etc.
The results would be similar for a wheel of similar spec; # of spokes, shape of rim, height of rim. This video is great because it puts a concrete # of watts to the comparison in a real life scenario. Can you question the scientific method? Probably (wind conditions are variable) Is it a step up from the company claims? Absolutely Will cheaper wheels deliver the same result? Likely so, if comparable spec.
I think the comparison is meaningful because it demonstrates that aero dynamic wheels do make a noticeable difference, regardless of where you buy them. The point is the advantage of aero dynamic wheels...
@@Ernie_13 lol, just watch hambini. and why is everyone dick riding winspace? everything is from china... guess winspace knew it needed an american marketer lol
About 20 years ago I upgraded my front wheel only. I used the same wheel and tyre but added a ring of thin twin wall plastic held between the spokes. It was about 1 1/2 inch wide with about a 1 inch gap to the rim. Exactly repeating the same journey (Same weather and time of day) over two hills and quite a bit of near flat I saved 10 minutes in 1 hour 45. IE about 10% faster. Outlay nothing because the plastic was left over but the sheets were about 50p. UCI would not have approved.
I live in an area where it's quite hilly (I can ride to multiple 7k+ ft climbs from my home) and it gets SUPER windy. I have 35mm Farsports Feder wheels and they are fantastic...just the cheaper novatec hubs (you can get them with almost any hub you wish) and steel spokes, they weigh around 1300g for the pair @$800!
It would be interesting to see the advantages of each wheel depth compared, basic alu, 30mm alu, 30 carbon, 45-50 carbon (common) 60 carbon 80 carbon etc I suspect the gains lessen beyond the 45/50mm
Man I have a mountain bike and I've been riding around the city thinking this was perfect but I got onto a roadbike and I just realized how easy it is the pedal up hill in a high gear.
I still ride on the original alloy wheels on all my bikes. I remember watching a GCN video from a couple of years back where Ollie was in a wind tunnel testing various aerodynamic improvements and a Cost per Watt saved was generated. If I recall, wheels were the WORST investment a rider could make. An aero helmet was the best investment if I recall correctly for things that actually required money spent. Improving body positioning was the best, and possibly free.
I ride the older Zipp 808 Firecrest with hooked rims. I’ve been happy with them but they can move around on rides with gusty cross winds. Are the new 808’s any better in the crosswinds?
@@martindirkzimmer Alex had a crash weeks ago and his hands got beat up (among other injuries). Since then, he's been talking about wearing gloves when going out to ride. He's practicing what he preaches!
Why don't you compare budget £1000 wheels like Hunt 44/54 or little bit more expensive Parcorus Strade with those Zipp. That would be interesting video.
Because GCN doesn’t compare different brands. They don’t want to alienate any potential sponsor. It’s not about testing something, it’s about selling something. Or when was the last time you saw them Rate any big brand product negatively?
@@LarsRR sure I get that, having said that in their case the brand reviews are less and less appealing. Why? It has nothing to do with objectivity it's all about $$$. Their challenges even thou are sponsored are cool, but not the product reviews.
I remember that when this whole hookless and low pressure stuff came up all the researchers said that you can ignore the minimum inflation number on tires and that they are often too high
I ride with a set of 303 firecrests and tubeless Pirelli 28mm tyres and its simply the best life decision i ever made. The one thing you dont mention in this video however is that tubeless Pirellis have a 65 psi minimum tyre pressure and the Zipps have a 72.5 max pressure. So essentially you only have a narrow 7.5psi operating window which isnt really an issue but requires monitoring.
The minimum pressure by tyres is usually them saving their asses in a "at this pressure it's completely impossible under any condition that the tyre will unseat"
"How fast are deep aero wheels" or "how fast is expensive hub, expensive tyres and expensive wheel and expensive bearings".. they all together made the 23 watt difference
Upgraded my Pinarello F10 to Campagnolo WTO 60 for the aereo advantages but also (or mostly?) for the look of them...love them, only with cross wind need to pay more attention and always hands on handlebars! :)
What you guys don't know is that Ollile is GCN's secret weapon. Didn't he complete that ultra race about six months ago? That was a testament of his endurance.. Cheers mates.
One of the fastest wheels i've ridden were my older Zipp 808 rim brake tubulars under 1400g faster than any new tubeless and tubed tyre clinchers I've owned to date.
Good to see Alex back on the bike! At what speed do deep section wheels start to make a real difference? My current solo average speed is about 18.5 mph (30 kph), though I can do 5-minutes efforts at 22 mph (35.4 kph). My club rides are usually devoted to supporting a no-drop group at about 15 mph (24 kph), though I could be going with a 20 mph (32 kph) group. On a recent 30-mile ride, my max average power for 20 minutes was 188W, this on a ride that Garmin Connect slotted into Base training. I guess that means I could go faster, and I think it's true. But would aerodynamically efficient wheels, or aerodynamically efficient anything, really be of much benefit to me? Given that 75-80% of my drag on the bike is me and not the bike, I/m not convinced.
They did a test last week or month I think, where they compared every aero element at 35-45kph to show how many watts you saved... I think wheels were like 15w at 30-35 kph
@@kimwarner6050 There's certainly validity to that. I find riding with the no-drop group very easy but also very enjoyable as we can chat while plodding along. I don't have to go fast every time I ride.
Getting more aero everything helps mostly on solo rides or in the front of the group. The most difference i think makes your riding position, tight fitting clothes, top end tires tubless or latextube, aero helmet, wheels and then maybe the bike itself. Dont know your size or weight, but having a trainingplan to follow will give you quite a push as a beginner! Especially when you start those intervals after loooong base training - Winter is coming!
@@dakalla But, on a solo ride, what does it matter if your 1mph slower or faster? Back in the day, when everyone was on steel 5 0r 6 speed bikes with down tube shifters, cycling was every bit as enjoyable as it is now when everyone is on carbon bikes with twice as many cogs and easier shifting. You have to have the same to not get dropped, but it does not make your life better. interesting fact:- a heavy bike goes downhill faster than a light one, and going downhill fast is the most fun to be had on a bike.😄
That low a pressure? Is that significantly slower than hooked rim at 100 psi? The tires look like they are punctured and you can notice the bike being bumpy while he rides it.
Same tire, yes. Pressure, no, since it depends on the internal rimd width mostly. Also, they could have used the same tire but not the tan wall version.
Can you do a comparison video with 808 vs 858 with regards to speed, cross wind efficiency and weight difference? That would be very great. It would also be interesting to compare 606 vs 656 combination
Heavier riders could also consider using an insert with the tubeless setup. The insert would add volume helping to keep the tire on the rim when it deforms under load.
Can we just drop the Ollie jokes? We get it already. That guy is the hardest working dude on the team, and is responsible for a lot of awesome videos without which this channel would suck.
Where I live we have loads of minor traffic free roads, great for cycling but they can be a bit rough. One of our group bought some expensive zipp wheels and it's slowed him down because he doesn't want to risk damaging them on our roads.
Looking at upgrading my wheels, these are *just a little bit* out of budget. Would be nice to see a test on how the 303 S do as a more budget friendly aero upgrade
They're very good i got em with Pirelli Race TLR. If you care about the climbs theyre very agile. On rougher pavements its very sturdy and takes feedback well. I love them
The problem I have with these wheels is I am 130lbs (59kgs) and where I ride there are a lot of hills. Given the wheels are around 1850 grams, they are almost a pound heavier than a lot of decent carbon wheels. I would love to see how well these did on similar roads with a light rider. You think Zipp would lend me some wheels to test 😀
When i was racing a long time ago (15 years) i used Mavic Cosmic aerowheels and i loved them even if they were heavy. Then i changed to Tufo Cyclone wheels that was much more light weight but i thought it was easier to keep the speed up with my Mavic wheels. So, what is better... old heavy or new light weight 🤔🤔
The 'golfball dimples' on the wheel have a solid aero benefit. Why not make a tire with dimpled sidewalls? Or even a fully dimpled tire, treads and all?
@@cmarnold78 It got me a couple MPH for sure, maybe 3. Hard, fast rides are faster, and the gains add up and help on longer, slower rides as well. Having no weight limit is nice for heavier folk like me.
@@slyj27 Nice! I have had the bike for about 3 months now. Am just tossing up whether to wait till the spring when the first tris start again or just get them now :) Don't feel like I have 'earned' them just yet... but not sure how much longer I can hold on :)
20 watts is much less than I expected. You don't pay the price for these wheels in €,$ or £ but if you end up in oncoming traffic or in the ditch in crosswinds.
one thing no one talk about is the longevity of carbon wheels , some aloy are over 20y old and use every day and are just fine , or you are suppose to use them for 5 year or a season ,
Are all hookless rims 72.5psi max? I have a giant propel with their own hookless slr1 rims and on the rim it says max 125psi and the tyres they came with says min 85psi - 145psi max
10:21 he would never win against me. Results: 12:49 The stock wheels puts out more watts. Which means they're faster. Spending $2,500.00 on a set of wheels and they aren't faster than the stock would be a wasteful spendings. I would recommend upgrading the "bottom bracket and the Rear Derailleur" to a Ceramic Speed including the bearings inside the rear stock wheel to Ceramic Racing bearings. And.....I'm not telling the other upgrade.
For those on a budget, have a look at Vel RL 50 sold by sigmasports, currently on discount for £549. I have a set paired up with 32mm tyres and just brilliant!
Sorry, but I don't understand the metrics. By riding five minutes longer, didn't you simply ride five minutes longer, albeit with less power? Should not the constant be riding the same length of time and seeing how much further you traveled? Or riding the same distance and seeing the time savings?
At 61 its difficult to justify wheels costing that much, and for the courses I ride, mostly long distance flat courses. probably not really needed. I went for some 40mm aero alloy wheels from Kinetic one. Nowhere near as light as zips, but at £450, they were almost £2K cheaper.
@@douglaspate9314 yeah, but then you get embarrassed being passed by a teenager on a crappy old bike :) I have an old TCR based TT bike, with decent, but not silly expensive, aero alloy wheels and a home made disc cover. Plausible deniability when I don't win :)
I think most of us know the difference between these deep aero carbon wheels and alloy wheels. My bike came with a 45mm deep carbon wheelset which weighs 15xxg (and retails for about USD1K), how much actual difference will I get to invest in these super expensive Zipp wheels? That’s the thing I want to know. ;)
You have to thank mountain biking technology for hookless rims, especially Specialized. There should be a video around showing them testing their hookless prototypes and their tubeless tires inflating them to over 100 psi before blowing off.
GCN Gurus STOP! Now chaps, play fair! First you misled the cycling community with Dr O’s (sounds like Bond villain) Ribble Ultra ‘Unicorn Blood iridescent glittery loveliness’ paint; that Ribble claim does not actually exist. But now, Alex has access to ‘fancy-pants’ wheels! What? I cannot find ‘fancy-pants wheels anywhere! Love the show but utterly confused! Great to see Alex back cycling. Huge respect to Manon. 😊
Pretty meaningless test if you add on extra mileage. Those extra miles could have been downhill or with a tailwind, so easy to do the same speed at lower watts.
He did say, during that map section, that it was a pretty flat loop (10m elevation). Good point RE the tailwind. But are you watching this video for scientific results? I think most folks who’ve upgraded their wheels have found that that carbon rims are lighter, deeper rims are more more aero, their bank account is significantly reduced and the end result is to make you either (a) actually faster or (b) make you feel faster, which makes you cycle harder and results in (a).
Thankfully, Alex uploaded his run to Komoot. If you look at just the same 13km section, the speed was 39.06km/h with the normal wheels and 39.15km/h with the Zipp wheels. Accoding to historical weather data, there was no tailwind (and certainly no descent) on the extra section. The pacing was also quite consistent (inconsistent pacing can really mess with the results). The extra kilometers could have really skewed the results if there had been a tailwind, but in this case I think the 23W saved is a pretty fair representation of these wheels. At the speeds involved, it would translate to about 1km/h of free speed, which is about what you'd expect for a pair of deep section wheels.
There are a lot cheaper deep section wheels out there than Zipps. It woul be interesting to compare Zipps to say Prime and different section widths say 50mm with 80mm.
Not very scientific. Heavy riders best to stick with hooked rims. Alloy best for brake performance and durability. The rider is about 80% of the aero resistance. A small change in rider position easily accounts for "the savings", or at least the majority of it.
Have you ever upgraded your wheels?
Yep 808 zipp firecrest older style, i do feel faster
I have the Ican Alpha 50 for 6 months now. love them.
still on stock alloy wheels.
Already did tire, tpu tube and narrow handlebar upgrades.
Next probably semi aero helmet.
Then i'll look into wheels upgrade
Been on the same Mavic Aksium rims for 11 years. I do often think about it, but then I start thinking about a new bike with discs and Di2 instead 🤣
Last year I was able to get a set of 303 firecrest wheels, they make my Atheos ride silky smooth.
Poor Ollie, after so many months, the joke about him getting dropped is still not dropped :)
All that hair is slowing him down
@@T59-j7k I am surprised Alpecin has not started to sponsor him
@@T59-j7k I like his hair.
Ollie isn't bothered 'cus he knows he could drop just about all of us.
The joke has lasted longer than Ollie did
Yes, I have upgraded my wheels from standard Aluminum to 40mm Carbon Wheels. I didn't go deeper because I was concerned about handling in cross winds. I am happy with the upgrade and definitely notice the difference when riding at faster speeds. I can maintain the pace longer at faster speeds.
Upgraded to some Roval Rapide CLX wheels over a year ago and one of the best upgrades I've done. Still light but the benefits are certainly noticeable on the flats. The wider profile (turns my 28mm s-works turbo tyres to 30mm) also makes for a far more comfortable ride.
Just replaced my Roval Rapide CLX with a pair of Vortex N6. IMO CLX are fast but much less responsive. Lateral stiffness is too weak compared to peers.
If you're interested in upgrading your wheels and don't want to spend Zipp money to do it, there are several quality Chinese wheelsets available. I've been riding a set of SuperTeam wheels for about three years now, thousands of miles on them and they're still as true as day 1 and look great. I paid under $300 for the 38mm set on sale through Amazon, but even at full price they're less than $400. I would stack them up against any top brand wheelset for the money. They make all different depth wheels, and after just checking, you can pick up a set of 88mm wheels for $399 through Amazon. Just read the reviews if you don't want to take my word for it.
Yoeleo C50’s for me. Been racing on them for three years and still dead straight. Also very good results in independent tests and 1500£ cheaper than theese Zipps. 1500 £ spent on a more aero helmet, aero clothing, proper bikefit and a training coach will result in an advantage of 25-50 watts gained/saved compared to the 3-5 watts the Zipps probly margain to my yoeleo.
The 60-80 disk set is on sale for $270 prime. If they don't sell out. I just ordered the 38s for $250 and they will be here today, Needed a set of "beaters" for road tires on a Checkpoint. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@bindingcurve You'll be really happy with those wheels. Where can you buy a good set of carbon wheels for $250? Let me know how you get on with them.
Support democracy and human rights. Buy Taiwan, not China.
i have two pairs of tubeless disc superteam wheels. a 55mm set on my road bike and a 45mm wider set on my gravel bike. no issues with either set and it cost me
Comparing 80mm deep premium carbon rims with typical cheap , shallow, alloy wheels supplied with a bike - can only result in a very predictable outcome which suits the narrative of the ‘Paid Promotion’ tag . What might be more interesting to a typical enthusiast is a comparison of deep, premium Zipp wheels versus same depth premium (but fraction of the cost) chinese carbon wheels (winsoace perhaps?) This would be far more useful, but I’m guessing the outcome this doesnt quire fit in with what a ‘Paid Promotion’ vid is trying to out out there.
There wouldn't be any measurable difference.
@@Nonixification actually there would be measurable difference. First of all, your wallet would be much lighter after purchasing Zipps in comparison with Winspace. And according to pretty solid reviews on YT, most comprehensive one by Luescher Teknik, you would get much better wheels out of Winspace, when come to spokes quality, build quality, stiffness etc.
The results would be similar for a wheel of similar spec; # of spokes, shape of rim, height of rim.
This video is great because it puts a concrete # of watts to the comparison in a real life scenario.
Can you question the scientific method? Probably (wind conditions are variable)
Is it a step up from the company claims? Absolutely
Will cheaper wheels deliver the same result? Likely so, if comparable spec.
I think the comparison is meaningful because it demonstrates that aero dynamic wheels do make a noticeable difference, regardless of where you buy them. The point is the advantage of aero dynamic wheels...
@@Ernie_13 lol, just watch hambini. and why is everyone dick riding winspace? everything is from china... guess winspace knew it needed an american marketer lol
About 20 years ago I upgraded my front wheel only. I used the same wheel and tyre but added a ring of thin twin wall plastic held between the spokes. It was about 1 1/2 inch wide with about a 1 inch gap to the rim. Exactly repeating the same journey (Same weather and time of day) over two hills and quite a bit of near flat I saved 10 minutes in 1 hour 45. IE about 10% faster. Outlay nothing because the plastic was left over but the sheets were about 50p. UCI would not have approved.
I live in an area where it's quite hilly (I can ride to multiple 7k+ ft climbs from my home) and it gets SUPER windy. I have 35mm Farsports Feder wheels and they are fantastic...just the cheaper novatec hubs (you can get them with almost any hub you wish) and steel spokes, they weigh around 1300g for the pair @$800!
It would be interesting to see the advantages of each wheel depth compared, basic alu, 30mm alu, 30 carbon, 45-50 carbon (common) 60 carbon 80 carbon etc
I suspect the gains lessen beyond the 45/50mm
Thanks Zipp.... I just bought 404 firecrest 3 weeks ago and you come out with these ...
Man I have a mountain bike and I've been riding around the city thinking this was perfect but I got onto a roadbike and I just realized how easy it is the pedal up hill in a high gear.
Nice to see you back on the bike!
Should have test as 300 w on both ride. To show how much faster in those 2 wheels set.
Agreed! Isn’t that the standard GCN testing methodology? Keep watts consistent and see how much faster/further they ride?
@@ericspmc09 I was expecting that. Alex's ability to 'just keep going' means nothing...
@@AC-wq7foexcept of course that it took substantially fewer watts to go the same speed
I still ride on the original alloy wheels on all my bikes. I remember watching a GCN video from a couple of years back where Ollie was in a wind tunnel testing various aerodynamic improvements and a Cost per Watt saved was generated. If I recall, wheels were the WORST investment a rider could make. An aero helmet was the best investment if I recall correctly for things that actually required money spent. Improving body positioning was the best, and possibly free.
I love whenever you guys throw in "fancy pants"! I'm going to incorporate that into my life. 😁
I ride the older Zipp 808 Firecrest with hooked rims. I’ve been happy with them but they can move around on rides with gusty cross winds. Are the new 808’s any better in the crosswinds?
I’m loving my 808 zipps the older style with hooked rims.
What do you mean “hooked” rims?
Glad to see Alex back on the bike!!
This time with gloves!
@@MrPharmageek Had his hands slipped? IDK what happened TBH.
@@martindirkzimmer Alex had a crash weeks ago and his hands got beat up (among other injuries). Since then, he's been talking about wearing gloves when going out to ride. He's practicing what he preaches!
@@MrPharmageek I know. But how/why did he crash?
Upgraded to Roval CL50 last year, best upgrade ever for me.
Why don't you compare budget £1000 wheels like Hunt 44/54 or little bit more expensive Parcorus Strade with those Zipp. That would be interesting video.
Because GCN doesn’t compare different brands. They don’t want to alienate any potential sponsor. It’s not about testing something, it’s about selling something. Or when was the last time you saw them Rate any big brand product negatively?
@@LarsRR sure I get that, having said that in their case the brand reviews are less and less appealing. Why? It has nothing to do with objectivity it's all about $$$.
Their challenges even thou are sponsored are cool, but not the product reviews.
I remember that when this whole hookless and low pressure stuff came up all the researchers said that you can ignore the minimum inflation number on tires and that they are often too high
Great video- glad to see you wearing gloves too!
I appreciate the humor as always. Thanks!
Glad you enjoyed it Robert!
Would be nice to see the new Winspace wheels tested.
I ride with a set of 303 firecrests and tubeless Pirelli 28mm tyres and its simply the best life decision i ever made. The one thing you dont mention in this video however is that tubeless Pirellis have a 65 psi minimum tyre pressure and the Zipps have a 72.5 max pressure. So essentially you only have a narrow 7.5psi operating window which isnt really an issue but requires monitoring.
The minimum pressure by tyres is usually them saving their asses in a "at this pressure it's completely impossible under any condition that the tyre will unseat"
"How fast are deep aero wheels" or "how fast is expensive hub, expensive tyres and expensive wheel and expensive bearings".. they all together made the 23 watt difference
Yes I have but seem do that again! Alex made a great recover video!
Thanks! How about a test for riders like me? If you hold 200 watts on the flats, what would the two speeds be?
Aero products should be tested at 25-30kph, to see real life watt savings on a 100km ride.
Power of drag is proportional to the cube of speed. So about 2 times less gains than with 270 watts ~ 10 Watts gain
Upgraded my Pinarello F10 to Campagnolo WTO 60 for the aereo advantages but also (or mostly?) for the look of them...love them, only with cross wind need to pay more attention and always hands on handlebars! :)
What you guys don't know is that Ollile is GCN's secret weapon. Didn't he complete that ultra race about six months ago? That was a testament of his endurance.. Cheers mates.
That's a very good point, for sure Ollie is one of the fittest
I been using the Zipp tire pressure calculator wrong. I had my tire casing as standard but after watching this video it should be thin.
It seems they've optimized the depth for aero and weght. Maybe one day. Beautiful Orca was well. Great Vid!
Hmm, Alex, looks like cycling injuries now have Quick Release, check them out at the GCN merch shops
😂 I wish that was the case
Very nice test. I like the results
Eating less pies is still the ultimate performance gain and £000's cheaper - sorry Greggs 🤣🤣
One of the fastest wheels i've ridden were my older Zipp 808 rim brake tubulars under 1400g faster than any new tubeless and tubed tyre clinchers I've owned to date.
Rim break bikes are the best. Faster for sure. It’s sad to see everything going disc now
I work at a bike shop and we just got these in!
Good to see Alex back on the bike! At what speed do deep section wheels start to make a real difference? My current solo average speed is about 18.5 mph (30 kph), though I can do 5-minutes efforts at 22 mph (35.4 kph). My club rides are usually devoted to supporting a no-drop group at about 15 mph (24 kph), though I could be going with a 20 mph (32 kph) group. On a recent 30-mile ride, my max average power for 20 minutes was 188W, this on a ride that Garmin Connect slotted into Base training. I guess that means I could go faster, and I think it's true. But would aerodynamically efficient wheels, or aerodynamically efficient anything, really be of much benefit to me? Given that 75-80% of my drag on the bike is me and not the bike, I/m not convinced.
They did a test last week or month I think, where they compared every aero element at 35-45kph to show how many watts you saved... I think wheels were like 15w at 30-35 kph
You should ride with the faster group
@@kimwarner6050 There's certainly validity to that. I find riding with the no-drop group very easy but also very enjoyable as we can chat while plodding along. I don't have to go fast every time I ride.
Getting more aero everything helps mostly on solo rides or in the front of the group. The most difference i think makes your riding position, tight fitting clothes, top end tires tubless or latextube, aero helmet, wheels and then maybe the bike itself. Dont know your size or weight, but having a trainingplan to follow will give you quite a push as a beginner! Especially when you start those intervals after loooong base training - Winter is coming!
@@dakalla But, on a solo ride, what does it matter if your 1mph slower or faster? Back in the day, when everyone was on steel 5 0r 6 speed bikes with down tube shifters, cycling was every bit as enjoyable as it is now when everyone is on carbon bikes with twice as many cogs and easier shifting. You have to have the same to not get dropped, but it does not make your life better.
interesting fact:- a heavy bike goes downhill faster than a light one, and going downhill fast is the most fun to be had on a bike.😄
That low a pressure? Is that significantly slower than hooked rim at 100 psi? The tires look like they are punctured and you can notice the bike being bumpy while he rides it.
Shouldn't the same tire at same pressure have been used to keep rolling resistance the same?
They said it was the same tyre and yet you can clearly see that it’s not.
Same tire, yes. Pressure, no, since it depends on the internal rimd width mostly. Also, they could have used the same tire but not the tan wall version.
Both sets of tires are Pirelli P Zero's. The first set is probably for a hooked rim the second we know was for a hookless rim.
Not same pressure, at the same pressure the wider tires will be firmer. It should be the same firmness for an equivalent test.
Alex's injury recovery was SPEEDIER than Deep Section Wheels!
Still running scary Pirellis though...😁
Got a video coming up soon on his road to recovery!
Can you do a comparison video with 808 vs 858 with regards to speed, cross wind efficiency and weight difference? That would be very great. It would also be interesting to compare 606 vs 656 combination
Heavier riders could also consider using an insert with the tubeless setup. The insert would add volume helping to keep the tire on the rim when it deforms under load.
what was the weight of first set of times compared to Firecrest?
Can we just drop the Ollie jokes? We get it already. That guy is the hardest working dude on the team, and is responsible for a lot of awesome videos without which this channel would suck.
What if you keep constant power, let's say 300w, for the same course, just different wheels?
23w more power at that speed, putting it into a cycling power calculator tells around 1,1km/h faster.
Alex your test route looks like where I live or the state New Jersey on its side. Also are the 808's made in the USA? My 303's were.
In 1996 I started building tubular wheels for myself to race on.
Yes 303s love them
This is such an awesome bike 🤩🤩🤩MORE of the ORCA AERO pleeease #LLOA
Is the „Ollie getting dropped“ joke a revenge for the hat in the ketones video?
Upgrading from alloy rims and 35mm carbon to 77 & 88mm aero wheels has made me faster than ever
Where I live we have loads of minor traffic free roads, great for cycling but they can be a bit rough. One of our group bought some expensive zipp wheels and it's slowed him down because he doesn't want to risk damaging them on our roads.
Now that's not something we considered in these tests!!
Looking at upgrading my wheels, these are *just a little bit* out of budget. Would be nice to see a test on how the 303 S do as a more budget friendly aero upgrade
They're very good i got em with Pirelli Race TLR. If you care about the climbs theyre very agile. On rougher pavements its very sturdy and takes feedback well. I love them
The problem I have with these wheels is I am 130lbs (59kgs) and where I ride there are a lot of hills. Given the wheels are around 1850 grams, they are almost a pound heavier than a lot of decent carbon wheels. I would love to see how well these did on similar roads with a light rider. You think Zipp would lend me some wheels to test 😀
When i was racing a long time ago (15 years) i used Mavic Cosmic aerowheels and i loved them even if they were heavy. Then i changed to Tufo Cyclone wheels that was much more light weight but i thought it was easier to keep the speed up with my Mavic wheels. So, what is better... old heavy or new light weight 🤔🤔
Lighter for climbs
That very much depends on the terrain!
Aero wins in anything but a mountain finish.
The 'golfball dimples' on the wheel have a solid aero benefit. Why not make a tire with dimpled sidewalls? Or even a fully dimpled tire, treads and all?
Or how about a test of 808s with and without dimples. (Don't know how you'd fill the dimples and not increase weight...)
Fascinating.
Doesn't the Silca website say to run about 10 psi higher?
These wheels look amazing, but are they as hardcore as those wheels you rode down the steps and smashed up the kerb Alex?
For half the price and the same or better performance, I'd go Lun HYPER
Recently upgraded to Bontrager Aeolus Pro 51s on my Domane SL6. 100% worth it, smooth and fast.
Looking at the same for my Domane - how much difference did it make do you think roughly?
@@cmarnold78 It got me a couple MPH for sure, maybe 3. Hard, fast rides are faster, and the gains add up and help on longer, slower rides as well. Having no weight limit is nice for heavier folk like me.
@@slyj27 Nice! I have had the bike for about 3 months now. Am just tossing up whether to wait till the spring when the first tris start again or just get them now :) Don't feel like I have 'earned' them just yet... but not sure how much longer I can hold on :)
20 watts is much less than I expected. You don't pay the price for these wheels in €,$ or £ but if you end up in oncoming traffic or in the ditch in crosswinds.
one thing no one talk about is the longevity of carbon wheels , some aloy are over 20y old and use every day and are just fine , or you are suppose to use them for 5 year or a season ,
Are all hookless rims 72.5psi max? I have a giant propel with their own hookless slr1 rims and on the rim it says max 125psi and the tyres they came with says min 85psi - 145psi max
The internal rim width on the Giant hookless wheels are much narrower than Zipp so they can take higher pressure.
10:21 he would never win against me.
Results:
12:49 The stock wheels puts out more watts. Which means they're faster. Spending $2,500.00 on a set of wheels and they aren't faster than the stock would be a wasteful spendings. I would recommend upgrading the "bottom bracket and the Rear Derailleur" to a Ceramic Speed including the bearings inside the rear stock wheel to Ceramic Racing bearings. And.....I'm not telling the other upgrade.
GCN should do a test between a set of Zipps and a set of $500 Chinese wheels.
Does Zipp make aero rims for retro frame with rim brakes? What's a good alloy option?
For those on a budget, have a look at Vel RL 50 sold by sigmasports, currently on discount for £549. I have a set paired up with 32mm tyres and just brilliant!
Thanks for the great video. Glad to see ya back on a bike. What was the depth of the of the standard set he tested?
I find it hard to consider a wheel set worth significantly more than my bike!
Or...car!
What can I say, I am still running Mavic KSYRIUM SL's; weighing in at: 1480 grams (Pair) this still perform better than me.
Sorry, but I don't understand the metrics. By riding five minutes longer, didn't you simply ride five minutes longer, albeit with less power? Should not the constant be riding the same length of time and seeing how much further you traveled? Or riding the same distance and seeing the time savings?
Don't worry about the time... That's irrelevant, the important thing is that he was able to ride at 39.1kph using 23 watts less
If you ride a 10km course 5 minutes longer, your data become invalid. Maybe those extra 5 minutes were with a tailwind? Of a bit downhill?
At 61 its difficult to justify wheels costing that much, and for the courses I ride, mostly long distance flat courses. probably not really needed. I went for some 40mm aero alloy wheels from Kinetic one. Nowhere near as light as zips, but at £450, they were almost £2K cheaper.
Nah mate! I'm 64 and totally justify wheel upgrades. At our age we want all the help we can get.
@@douglaspate9314 yeah, but then you get embarrassed being passed by a teenager on a crappy old bike :) I have an old TCR based TT bike, with decent, but not silly expensive, aero alloy wheels and a home made disc cover. Plausible deniability when I don't win :)
Yoooo 🫣 left lever to rear brake? I’d fly away first corner 😂
I think most of us know the difference between these deep aero carbon wheels and alloy wheels. My bike came with a 45mm deep carbon wheelset which weighs 15xxg (and retails for about USD1K), how much actual difference will I get to invest in these super expensive Zipp wheels? That’s the thing I want to know. ;)
Exactly. Also I‘d be interested how much more wobbly my bike would get in crosswinds. Maybe the standard 45mm wheels are even better for Joe Average.
naff all
5 min. thats really lot 😎
As a 100kg rider, this trend of low limits is concerning
Maybe max tire pressures of hookless rims will rise as new tires are developed. Until then, I'll just ride hooked rims.
So, how many lanes over does a gust of wind push you on a downhill? I bet that can get exciting...
You have to thank mountain biking technology for hookless rims, especially Specialized. There should be a video around showing them testing their hookless prototypes and their tubeless tires inflating them to over 100 psi before blowing off.
You should see them when they puncture, tyre literally comes off. Dangerous
@@mattchappell2002 Vittoria has a solution for that. Si did a video on it
I'm confused - shouldn't the same average speed on the same route give the same time?
It was a test to see how long Alex could ride at that average speed - the route was a loop so he did more distance on the Zipps
Wish i wasn't 115kg, could buy some beautiful wheels like those
GCN Gurus STOP! Now chaps, play fair! First you misled the cycling community with Dr O’s (sounds like Bond villain) Ribble Ultra ‘Unicorn Blood iridescent glittery loveliness’ paint; that Ribble claim does not actually exist. But now, Alex has access to ‘fancy-pants’ wheels! What? I cannot find ‘fancy-pants wheels anywhere! Love the show but utterly confused! Great to see Alex back cycling. Huge respect to Manon. 😊
In a shocking turn of events, RUclips audience members have discovered GCN Tech has just completely made up about 40% of the tech they feature
Good enough to make the live ‘comments of the week’ surely?
This wheels are gut just for Time trial. In real world if you go deeper then 45-48mm it will be difficult to control the bike in side winds.
So when will they pop some of these for 27.5x4.5 rubber? Asking for a friend, because inquiring minds want to know.
Pretty meaningless test if you add on extra mileage. Those extra miles could have been downhill or with a tailwind, so easy to do the same speed at lower watts.
He did say, during that map section, that it was a pretty flat loop (10m elevation). Good point RE the tailwind. But are you watching this video for scientific results? I think most folks who’ve upgraded their wheels have found that that carbon rims are lighter, deeper rims are more more aero, their bank account is significantly reduced and the end result is to make you either (a) actually faster or (b) make you feel faster, which makes you cycle harder and results in (a).
Thankfully, Alex uploaded his run to Komoot.
If you look at just the same 13km section, the speed was 39.06km/h with the normal wheels and 39.15km/h with the Zipp wheels. Accoding to historical weather data, there was no tailwind (and certainly no descent) on the extra section. The pacing was also quite consistent (inconsistent pacing can really mess with the results). The extra kilometers could have really skewed the results if there had been a tailwind, but in this case I think the 23W saved is a pretty fair representation of these wheels. At the speeds involved, it would translate to about 1km/h of free speed, which is about what you'd expect for a pair of deep section wheels.
I would love to know how much difference a wattage savings feels like. What does 23 watts savings feel like
I think that for this test you need to use e-bake for fair testing
for that price I bought a Yoeleo frameset with 45mm wheels and have money left over UCI approved
when uphill test? :D
Does ZIPP know about recent crash or they might be thinking you could check the durability at the same time. Sorry Alex I had too.
There are a lot cheaper deep section wheels out there than Zipps. It woul be interesting to compare Zipps to say Prime and different section widths say 50mm with 80mm.
Not very scientific. Heavy riders best to stick with hooked rims. Alloy best for brake performance and durability. The rider is about 80% of the aero resistance. A small change in rider position easily accounts for "the savings", or at least the majority of it.
Morale of the story, if you want to ride faster… train harder. :)
y'all need to get an electric moped for the camera work.
I weigh 100 kg I have some zipp 303’s running conti gp5000.
And run 65psi in the front & 70psi in the rear
Which bike is that?
Aerobike by Orbea.
@@wsnx_ thank you
Orbea orca aero 2022
Thumbs up for Alex, but I could never afford wheels which cost far more than my entire bike and the bike I hope to buy in instalments, put together...
I've heard of too many issues with Zipp's to bother with them. They look cool but I personally don't trust them
Alex what would you go for if you only had a budget of £1000ish
Love these wheels! I currently use 65mm wheels. I might upgrade?