I'd love to see how they perform against stock rims that you get on mid level bikes, ie. before thinking of what to upgrade to, is it even worth upgrading at all?
What I'd like to know is the difference in build quality, bearings (including serviceability), durability (spokes, bearing, rim), lateral stiffness vs vertical compliance, and warranty. Not easy to do in a quick comparison, but that's what I would LIKE to base my decision on when buying wheels. Speed differences are going to be minimal and variable on riding conditions.
Lateral stiffness and vertical compliance has become an obsession and part of the marketing spin. All wheels flex and vertical compliance is just another work for comfortable. Durability comes from buying wheels that are suitable for the purchasing rider weight and intended use, weight is included in the suitability. Price does not necessarily reflect the quality.
I recently picked up Hunt Limitless 60 and can confirm that they’re fast and stable but sound like million bees chasing you on descents. Best value of the group imo.
@@bipsyscott7275 The HED Vanquish RC6 is $1750USD vs $1450 for the Hunts, at least in the states. Interestingly, I had narrowed my choices to those two, but couldn’t swing the additional cost. I personally like the wider rim profile of the Hunts to use with 28mm tires. Totally agree that HED makes a super reliable, fast wheel. I used tubular HED stingers for years and loved them. As long as the Hunts don’t fall apart, I’m happy.
Really useful video. Well done for dong such comprehensive testing. Shows that unless you are seriously racing, it's not really worth the massive price difference to your average rider
Comprehensive isn't the word I'd use, but it's nice to have this range side by side. Comprehensive would have a larger sample size of EACH wheel, be tested under more controlled circumstances, multiple times, and they would measure more factors than just time. And there's be a stock baseline to compare to.
One of the main things I observe from the results is the difference in rim depth probably makes more difference than the value of the wheel. The 3 shallowest wheels at 50mm were the 3 slowest, the faster wheels were all circa 60mm.
I had the Bora WTO 45 and loved that wheel Set, stunning looks, incredible build quality, nice machined hubs and a good performace (unscientific, by my feelings) made it my favorite wheels set. Maybe the wheels are a bit on the heavy side but you save 20-30g at each wheel for needing no rimtape.
I ride the WTO 60s and I'm still stunned how gorgeous they look and how smoothy they rotate - even after having them for almost a year. Very susceptible for crosswinds though, but not more than my previous Fulcrums.
Have you already broken a spoke? Can you repair it normally? I had once heard the wildest stories that you can not repair and the whole wheel is defective thereby.
Jamie had a good point when describing the wheels he'd choose. It may not be the fastest on paper but it feels faster. The phycological effect can't be underestimated when you're pushing yourself in a hard effort during a race or something.
I use Ican wheels - three sets, total. One set of base 38s on my wife's bike, one set of 38s on my '99 Trek 5200 and one set of F&L 50s on my Specialized Venge. We've got thousands and thousands of miles on those wheels and I love them (between $450 and $750 US). No idea how fast they are comparatively, but we average 22-24-mph over 30 miles and I feel comfortable on either wheelset (though the Fast & Light 50s are a little better at the faster speeds).
As you can see in my profile picture I run Winspace Hyper 50 wheels and they are truly the best pair of wheels I've ever ridden (got 5000km on them now without any issues). However, I'm hearing lots of good stuff about Elite Drive 50D and Farsports Ventoux S wheels (although the Farsports are comparatively expensive). Personally, I think I'd buy the Elite Drive 50D wheels over the Winspace Hyper 50 wheels now because they are similarly priced but weigh considerably less
@@robbeelsas how do Elite compare quality wise & stiffness? Little extra weight isn’t always an issue when there are other dominant factors. I’ve heard so much praise about the Hypers & positive reviews. Hambini loves them. I’m close to pulling the trigger 👍
I think I'll forever run 28mm tires only moving forward. With disc brake bikes having so much more clearance they're such a smarter tire to run. Cornering, ride feel, speed, it's all there.
Pity you didn't include a good quality aluminium wheel set just to see what the extra cash for carbon wheels is getting you. To my mind, the small differences between the wheels tested (assuming those differences are statistically significant) are of interest only to the die-hard racer.
Wow, thanks for putting in that amount of effort. I'd love to see a similar video about alloy wheels, which are a more realistiv choice for a lot of us.
At 7:48 you say "The speed of the wheel does not increase as you spend more money." I would've loved to see an X-Y scatter plot of speed to price to see that demonstrated.
It's good to have another set of data like this. I feel a good next test is to take the two lowest performing and two highest performing wheels and try to set them up with the best tires for their profile, then see what difference remains. I understand wanting to use the same tires for controlling a variable, but with varying rim widths it can give an advantage to wider wheelsets. I get the trend is towards wider tires, but if someone is focusing on 10 mile TT's or rides mostly on smooth roads, it could be worth it to them to use a 23c tire if they can save $1k and still get similar speed savings. Especially since they'd really only need to do it on the front wheel; they could stay wider on the back for more comfort with little to no aero penalty.
This matches my anecdotal experiences. I have a set of 2019 ENVE 4.5SES wheels and they feel no faster than the 2022 Farsports Revo wheels I have on two other bikes. The Farsports are literally half the price of the ENVEs, have a slightly wider profile (~30mm external) and have exactly the same hubs as my particular ENVEs (240EXPs). The Revos also look better and have a solid rim bed which eliminates the need for tubeless tape, I run everything tubeless so that's important for me. IMO, the sweet spot for performance carbon wheels is ~$1,250. Any more than that doesn't get any faster, any less than that and you start getting lower quality OEM hubs and questionable build quality.
Depends on the oem hubs, I’ve had better experience with bitex and nova than dt Swiss and hope hubs I’ve owned. Hubs are a complete crap shoot. If the machining is out then it’s out regardless of price. Your bearings will forever prematurely wear what ever the brand. Hubs are some of the most overpriced things in cycling. And very hard to prove that there is a problem and an exspensive fix even if they give you new hub. Some of the china brands like elite and winspace. Hopefully this will drive down the costs of cycling products.
Things such as reliability, and quality control are something that are hard to be measured on. I consider these to be equally important to speed when come down to selecting a Wheelset.
Would be great to discuss each wheelset in more depth: feel, sound on the road, cross winds, and have a flat/rolling test as well as a climb test. Many people own or are considering these different wheelsets and it would be more informative as to a personal pros/cons comparison for individuals interested in a particular set of wheels or decision between different sets or an additional set with different characteristics.
I keep looking at carbon wheels and keep making the decision to stick with the alloys that came with my bike. It doesn’t matter whether I do it a little faster. I’m out there for the exercise.
Great reviews 🎉 I wish you guys would make a review on the scribe wheels. I've been racing on them for the past few years and had great success. I'd like to see how they stand up to the competition according to you.
I love do sound of the HUNT freehub! No need for a bell when riding on busy cycle highways in London, just freewheel for a second and people will know you are coming :)
Good to know. What really would have been interesting is to normalise the bearings and see if that reduces the (minimal) differences. But I guess I’ll stick with my aluminium rims anyway.
I have a set of HED Ardennes SL wheels w HED hubs on my rim brake equipped road bike and really like the smoothness and acceleration I feel from these. Based on your test of carbon w disc wheels, I would either stick with the HEDs that did well in your test or the Hunt wheels, which have a reputation of being lighter versus other brands tested. Good video and analysis guys.
I have them too and love them. Something that wasnt mentioned in the video is the difference of inner rim width. They only mentioned that the Campag wheels have only 19mm. The Zipps have 23mm inner rim width and with a 28mm tire u can ride really low tire pressures. The added comfort is something i really started to appreciate as i am getting older and doing long rides.
I would have also liked a wheel by wheel commentary about subjective cornering and comfort of each wheelset. You have established that the speed differences are small, but do some feel better so that you would like to have them on your bike? Great video though!
I regret purchasing a set of 303 Firecrest. Within 3 months, the freehub had water ingress and all springs went rusty and are now stuck. I have to purchase a freehub for 100 euros. On the other hand, I've been riding on original aluminium wheels for 2 years, still spinning without extra cost. Probably my biggest mistake for a small gain and more for the bling.
This is where the Shimano or campaign shine! With cup and cone bearings with some love once or two times a year they last for more than one bike lifetime
@@dakalla I have been building wheels out of passion for many years and I work for a well-known large bearing manufacturer who is also a partner of a cycling federation... And I found myself working to restore the bearing part of many Shimano wheels because the teams world tour have big problems with this and Shimano does not correct the degradation because it only offers part of the bearing set, the outer raceways are missing. The restoration was an extremely complicated and delicate job but I got a very good result and I improved the sealing, the lubrication and applied the right adjustment... Now everything is fine for all these wheels but the question is, why Shimano can't do that!?!
@@dakalla to be clear, bearings are fine, the hub is fine, it's the pawls and pawl springs that have rusted so much that they were not engaging. I discovered this since in last couple of rides (especially behind red lights), I found my feet going down immediately when pedalling. I checked the thru axle and then the wheel, turned out the pawls were not springing back..
I had the exactly same experience with Jamie that when I had a 26c tire on my Roval Rapide I hit a road furniture with the rim 'cause the 26c tire wasn't wide enough to protect the rim. Luckily I didn't hit it too hard and could get away with only a scuff mark on the rim though. Ever since that, I have been using 28c tires on the Rapide wheels.
What is the inside width of these rims and is it a result of the hookless design or the width of the rim? Asking as I'm considering getting wider but not hookless rims.
@@gregmorrison7320 Roval Rapide wheels are hooked; I believe this has to do more with the discrepancy between the outer width and the inner width of the rim, particularly on the front wheel where I got hit. The inner width is 21mm whereas the outer width of the front wheel is 35mm.
Being a heavier rider I've never veered off alu wheels. There are huge speed gains based on weight and hub quality but none have failed on build quality. Campag rule the roost for me, 26 mm tires on Zonda's are my go to on my terrible roads, I might go up the alu chain when covid is over. There is too much traffic to race near me unless it's stop light to stop light so carbon wheels are pointless for me. A much lighter rider on baby smooth roads might get some benefit, if those roads exist.
As for wheelset suggestions: include all those on the world tour teams! Enve, Corima, Dura Ace, etc. we can then speculate if wheels made a difference! Cav vs Jakobsen, etc! Great test and love the real world watt choices!
I bought the Fulcrum Wind 40 DB wheels to replace those horrible aluminium anchors on my Aethos Comp. I would have liked to have something more high-end, but realised that I don’t race and Wiggle sold a pair for about 1,000 euros (not GBP). I think it was a good bargain, they are nice to ride. Though heavy, they are good enough for a complete amateur like me. Probably I would buy Roval Alpinist CL if I had the cash!
I have the cheaper Hunts and they are excellent. They just feel fast and comfortable. The free hub is very basic tech but it’s easy to work on. If you have the money spare then the dearer ones with better hubs and spokes would be the icing on the cake but I wouldn’t spend any more than that.
Thanks for the post, guys, another good video with practical, useful info. Bang for the buck, smoothness, stability, durability, for the age group racer, I have been super happy with Steve and Annie HED’s Jet series and RC Performance series wheels for decades. Save your money for bikes and race/fondo/century reg fees, travel expenses ❤
Seems like a marginal difference overall across the board. I'm even wondering if outside factors such as difference in wind may have influenced the results. On my 39.3-mile (63.2 km) ride this morning, I was 10 seconds /mile slower than the same ride yesterday morning because of the slight difference in wind direction/velocity! I want an aero bike!
I agree. As much as I appreciate the effort there are just so many questions. The wind can obviously change during the day. How did they measure the time at the start and finish? What tire pressure did they use (the Zipp rims are hookless and 5 bar is the maximum, did they use higher tire pressure with the other wheels or was it always 5 bar)? They should have also talked more about the differenct rim depth.
People crank on Specialized, but as these tests show, they must have some idea on what they are doing. But I love that H.E.D. is still out there and still doing quite well. Kudos to his Widow and those running the company now. What really surprised me the most was how well the Chinese knockoffs did.
The reason the roval wheels show the rim is to provide a a trip effect to the wind to make it stay attached longer, if you light bulb your tire your robbing yourself of speed,check out Hambini .
I would like to see a video where you test various brands (DT Swiss Mon Chasseral vs 1560 SPline, Fulcrum Speed 25 vs Wind 55, Zipp 202 vs 404, Enve 2.3 vs 5.6, Mavic, Bontrager, FFWD, whatever brand, just use name brands) of aero wheels, and using the same brands, thier light weight wheel counterparts. 2 circuits, one with climbs, and one with more flats. I wanna see what brands tend to excel where, and what brands have the best wheels where. Furthermore, I would like to see a cyclocross wheels Edition. Various brands have good cross wheels, like Enve, Sector, Psimet, Bontrager(Paradigm CX, its actually a great set!), Zipp, I9, Kappius, Giant, perhaps throw in a few brands that have well known tubulars (and another video for tubeless) with wide internal widths for cross tires, and make a video there. There's very little CX material on here for CX nerds like myself. Or maybe hire me and give me the video making materials you guys use and I will start a CX Playlist for you guys for anything and all things CX related. I am a massive CX fan and as a mechanic, I have vast knowledge on the fun stuff.
Hunt are Farsports Kaze with a sticker on them, as confirmed by people at Farsports in private. You can buy them as a 69mm instead of 60 from Farsports. That’s what I have used for 3 years. Price is the same but with DT240 hubs. Never gone out of true.
The 10sec in time which come be due to numerous factors isnt worth spending £2000 more on but buying a wheel with better hubs like dt swiss and better spokes which will needs to true less and are more reliable is worth the extra money, companies sell a fad of 2 seconds faster over 40km instead of 4x more durable and longer lasting.
As a recreational cyclist, I wouldn't buy carbon anything, if I was young and still racing, I probably would. And as I wheelbuilder, I can honestly say that a good aluminium rim is better than carbon in every aspect except aerodynamics.
My takeaway is with both riders the max difference between all the wheels was 13 sec, or about 2%. However, the time difference between Jamie and Liam was about 1:40 or 15%. Which tells me Watts will beat equipment. If I want to get faster I need to train better.
Two comments: 1) The price difference might not be justified in speed, but it will probably show itself in build quality. Be it the quality of the build itself (even spoke tensions, etc) or the longevity of the bearings, you probably are getting more for your money with the more expensive wheels. At least, you'd hope so... 2) By definition, if you do the same 300W for the same time in your race, you're not going to finish with more energy on the fastest wheels because energy = power * time. If you're putting out the same power for the same duration, then you're expending the same energy. What you're really hoping is that the wheels save you time...
What this video is showing us is that the differences between the wheels, at least when it comes to speed, are - as expected - completely irrelevant. A few seconds up or down are negligible considering the price, and could also be easily attributed to the changing wind conditions.
Being worth it or not depends on your disposable income and your purpose of use. If you earn $400k a year, a set of aerodynamic carbon wheels costing $2k is not that expensive even if you just regularly putter along at 25kph with it. Also, why were the graphs and table not sorted by speed/time?
Or, one could configure a wheelset based on their wants and needs. For example: 40 front 50 rear Sapim CX-Ray spokes + Sapim brass nipples DT Swiss 350 or any good hubset that doesn't cost a bomb A trustworthy wheel-building studio
@@robbeelsas Because 1) Many don't know wheels can be configured as a build like a frame-up bike build. 2) Many don't know what they truly want in a wheelset. 3) Brands, brand names are everything for some of them.
@@yonglingng5640 you forgot: 4) Many do know but are simply not willing to put in the time to research the components that are 4.1) the best fit for their purposes and 4.2) work well together
Would like to have seen the Reynolds Aero 65 DB and the Fulcrum Speed 55 Cmptzn DB. I'm waiting for my new Merida Reacto 9000 that comes with the Reynolds so interested to see how they fare. The Fulcrums are about the same price as the Campys but get the better hub bearings that come in the Ultra version of the Campys (worth a couple of watts according to Fulcrum). Actually it would be interesting to see a comparison of all 3 different Fulcrum 55s (Wind/Speed/Speed Cmptzn) to see what EUR1,000 gets you in terms of performance.
would like to see you test the cheapie Chinese wheels you can get online for a fraction of the price. I got a couple different sets and they seem pretty good; certainly lighter and faster than the standard Mavics my bike came with.
The result fit's to the expectation, once profile height is fixed, with reasonable build quality, the performance difference is not large between brands. Besides the low profile aluminum wheel, I would like also see one comparison with 3~5 spoke TT standard carbon wheels
The reason why Shimano's wheel is slow may be the grease. Shimano even put on their Dua ace wheel the ``Shimano premium grease''. But this grease is not for competition. I've replaced them with better grease (AZ BGR-001). But anyway, the Shimano wheel is expensive and thus other brands can be a better choice.
I own a pair of Scope R5 on a reasonably priced aero / endurance bike (Rose Reveal) and a pair of Scope R3 on a 2018 Cannondale Synapse Hi-mod built as a lightweight climbing bike and I am very satisfied with both sets. Could be worth testing next time :) (PS : the freehubs are VERY LOUD ...)
Interesting…I guessed there wouldn’t be much difference in the performance, good to see the numbers. I’d like to know how Vel 50 RL wheels would compare. Earlier this year I bought a set (on sale) from Sigma Sport and only paid about £400! They weigh ~1600g and are nice looking. Bargain for the price. I’d never be able to justify spending £1k+ for a set of hoops…my wife would kill me! 😂
For me (amateur fat rider) living in Madeira Island, i just want light wheight and safety. This is worst than the Alpes here. I would like to see a test of china wheels... winspace - elite- ican - yoeleo - velobuild - trifox - etc
Almost perfect test, what I miss is a control wheel a cheap £100 aluminium to see the baseline. Well done! edit: oh I see thats the top comment, I should have read comments first :p
I know Winspace reviews have been done and done again, but surely they for into this comparo?? Universally considered among the very best bang for buck on the market, almost flawless in construction, and light af. Hell, even Hambini loves the things!
Would love to have seen some "China Carbon" wheels compared: the cheap no name brand ones that are $300-$450 USD and are controversial because they have no brand name behind them.
I once broke a mid-level Roval on a bike I bought used and Specialized gave me a brand new top-of-the-line complete wheelset under warranty for free. You don’t get that with cheap wheels!
I should go for one of the cheapest, I like wide tiers so I should pick wide rims as well, like 21 mm. One with silent freehub and that can handle high weight and some bumbs
No mention of tyre sizes used or comfort factor. For me fast but comfortable is both integral. I’d be ok to spend around £1500 for a fast comfortable endurance wheel that climbs ok so guess I’d want somewhere between 28 - 32mm tyres? But no point splashing out on new wheels if they are only aerodynamically good for 28s and anything bigger will mess it up.
I have a set of Rovals set up with tubes in them to ride day to day and an older set of Corima tubulars that weigh a bit less and are still 100% excellent wheels.
I got a pair of prox ultralight cabonspoke wheels C66DB cost only 700euro and I am really satisfied with them. Especially that they are light and so smooth riding over bumps and rough roads. I got tubular only 1100gr. I am a bit old school. By the way they have ceramic bearings.
If you can afford carbon wheels then buy it. Hobbies are expensive anyway, at least cycling is a healthy hobby. It probably will not make you any faster , but they look good, and I love he "swoosh" sound they make when I'm riding fast 🤗
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Would be great to see a control shallow alloy rim added to this comparison
Alu shallow rim vs carbon 2.5k rim is 7-10% differecne at max. And dont forget that rider aero is 90% and bike 10%. So You gain 10% out of 10% ?
I'd love to see how they perform against stock rims that you get on mid level bikes, ie. before thinking of what to upgrade to, is it even worth upgrading at all?
Better not what if you find out it's not worth to spend money for the looks😂
Adding a alu wheel set for reference would be nice. Otherwise very helpful information. Winspace would be another name that comes to my mind.
What I'd like to know is the difference in build quality, bearings (including serviceability), durability (spokes, bearing, rim), lateral stiffness vs vertical compliance, and warranty. Not easy to do in a quick comparison, but that's what I would LIKE to base my decision on when buying wheels. Speed differences are going to be minimal and variable on riding conditions.
For that you should follow Hambini and Peak Torque
Lateral stiffness and vertical compliance has become an obsession and part of the marketing spin.
All wheels flex and vertical compliance is just another work for comfortable.
Durability comes from buying wheels that are suitable for the purchasing rider weight and intended use, weight is included in the suitability.
Price does not necessarily reflect the quality.
@@StopTheRot that explains their price point and why I see them being sold secondhand.
There is no verticale compliance
I recently picked up Hunt Limitless 60 and can confirm that they’re fast and stable but sound like million bees chasing you on descents. Best value of the group imo.
Well hell, if that’s the case I’d definitely increase my downhill times! Best innovative feature yet
I don't understand the limitless pick. The HEDs are faster, and cost less. They get my money.
@@bipsyscott7275 The HED Vanquish RC6 is $1750USD vs $1450 for the Hunts, at least in the states. Interestingly, I had narrowed my choices to those two, but couldn’t swing the additional cost. I personally like the wider rim profile of the Hunts to use with 28mm tires. Totally agree that HED makes a super reliable, fast wheel. I used tubular HED stingers for years and loved them. As long as the Hunts don’t fall apart, I’m happy.
Really useful video. Well done for dong such comprehensive testing. Shows that unless you are seriously racing, it's not really worth the massive price difference to your average rider
Comprehensive isn't the word I'd use, but it's nice to have this range side by side. Comprehensive would have a larger sample size of EACH wheel, be tested under more controlled circumstances, multiple times, and they would measure more factors than just time. And there's be a stock baseline to compare to.
One of the main things I observe from the results is the difference in rim depth probably makes more difference than the value of the wheel. The 3 shallowest wheels at 50mm were the 3 slowest, the faster wheels were all circa 60mm.
Its a pity they didnt underline that (with an extra column eg).
Excellent no BS straight to the point for me the Hunt 50 wide aero thank you guys.
I had the Bora WTO 45 and loved that wheel Set, stunning looks, incredible build quality, nice machined hubs and a good performace (unscientific, by my feelings) made it my favorite wheels set. Maybe the wheels are a bit on the heavy side but you save 20-30g at each wheel for needing no rimtape.
I ride the WTO 60s and I'm still stunned how gorgeous they look and how smoothy they rotate - even after having them for almost a year. Very susceptible for crosswinds though, but not more than my previous Fulcrums.
Have you already broken a spoke? Can you repair it normally? I had once heard the wildest stories that you can not repair and the whole wheel is defective thereby.
@@stirny9731 never broke one, but its possible to fix you just need a steel nippel and a magnet and maybe you have to remove some other spokes..
Jamie had a good point when describing the wheels he'd choose. It may not be the fastest on paper but it feels faster. The phycological effect can't be underestimated when you're pushing yourself in a hard effort during a race or something.
Not having DT SWISS represented is a crime.
I use Ican wheels - three sets, total. One set of base 38s on my wife's bike, one set of 38s on my '99 Trek 5200 and one set of F&L 50s on my Specialized Venge. We've got thousands and thousands of miles on those wheels and I love them (between $450 and $750 US). No idea how fast they are comparatively, but we average 22-24-mph over 30 miles and I feel comfortable on either wheelset (though the Fast & Light 50s are a little better at the faster speeds).
Surprising to not see Winspace on this lineup, by far the best all rounder for performance, looks, price.
Value for money & performance, the Lun Winspace Hypers seem to be a great buy. Would be great to see them tested next 👍
As you can see in my profile picture I run Winspace Hyper 50 wheels and they are truly the best pair of wheels I've ever ridden (got 5000km on them now without any issues). However, I'm hearing lots of good stuff about Elite Drive 50D and Farsports Ventoux S wheels (although the Farsports are comparatively expensive). Personally, I think I'd buy the Elite Drive 50D wheels over the Winspace Hyper 50 wheels now because they are similarly priced but weigh considerably less
@@robbeelsas how do Elite compare quality wise & stiffness? Little extra weight isn’t always an issue when there are other dominant factors. I’ve heard so much praise about the Hypers & positive reviews. Hambini loves them. I’m close to pulling the trigger 👍
@@nickdalamagas3540 elitewheel has black friday promotion at £260, too good to miss. i just ordered one
I think I'll forever run 28mm tires only moving forward. With disc brake bikes having so much more clearance they're such a smarter tire to run. Cornering, ride feel, speed, it's all there.
Pity you didn't include a good quality aluminium wheel set just to see what the extra cash for carbon wheels is getting you. To my mind, the small differences between the wheels tested (assuming those differences are statistically significant) are of interest only to the die-hard racer.
Next time!
@@roadcc Promises promises ;)
The majority of carbon aero wheels will never see a race
Wow, thanks for putting in that amount of effort. I'd love to see a similar video about alloy wheels, which are a more realistiv choice for a lot of us.
Good video guys - appreciate the effort it must have taken.
Wonder why you guys didn’t test the Winspace Hyper wheels especially with the massive uptake of those wheels in the cycling community
At 7:48 you say "The speed of the wheel does not increase as you spend more money." I would've loved to see an X-Y scatter plot of speed to price to see that demonstrated.
It's good to have another set of data like this. I feel a good next test is to take the two lowest performing and two highest performing wheels and try to set them up with the best tires for their profile, then see what difference remains. I understand wanting to use the same tires for controlling a variable, but with varying rim widths it can give an advantage to wider wheelsets. I get the trend is towards wider tires, but if someone is focusing on 10 mile TT's or rides mostly on smooth roads, it could be worth it to them to use a 23c tire if they can save $1k and still get similar speed savings. Especially since they'd really only need to do it on the front wheel; they could stay wider on the back for more comfort with little to no aero penalty.
Zipp nsw is a pair of monster wheel, the stability it’s just so good in cross wind or during downhill and noticeably more free speed. Totally worth it
This matches my anecdotal experiences. I have a set of 2019 ENVE 4.5SES wheels and they feel no faster than the 2022 Farsports Revo wheels I have on two other bikes. The Farsports are literally half the price of the ENVEs, have a slightly wider profile (~30mm external) and have exactly the same hubs as my particular ENVEs (240EXPs). The Revos also look better and have a solid rim bed which eliminates the need for tubeless tape, I run everything tubeless so that's important for me. IMO, the sweet spot for performance carbon wheels is ~$1,250. Any more than that doesn't get any faster, any less than that and you start getting lower quality OEM hubs and questionable build quality.
Depends on the oem hubs, I’ve had better experience with bitex and nova than dt Swiss and hope hubs I’ve owned. Hubs are a complete crap shoot. If the machining is out then it’s out regardless of price. Your bearings will forever prematurely wear what ever the brand. Hubs are some of the most overpriced things in cycling. And very hard to prove that there is a problem and an exspensive fix even if they give you new hub.
Some of the china brands like elite and winspace. Hopefully this will drive down the costs of cycling products.
Things such as reliability, and quality control are something that are hard to be measured on. I consider these to be equally important to speed when come down to selecting a Wheelset.
Would be great to discuss each wheelset in more depth: feel, sound on the road, cross winds, and have a flat/rolling test as well as a climb test. Many people own or are considering these different wheelsets and it would be more informative as to a personal pros/cons comparison for individuals interested in a particular set of wheels or decision between different sets or an additional set with different characteristics.
Should have had one quality aluminum rim wheelset for comparison of cost vs speed vs weight.
Oftentimes Stans or other high quality AL wheels only weight 100g more than carbon anyhow.
I keep looking at carbon wheels and keep making the decision to stick with the alloys that came with my bike. It doesn’t matter whether I do it a little faster. I’m out there for the exercise.
Great reviews 🎉 I wish you guys would make a review on the scribe wheels. I've been racing on them for the past few years and had great success. I'd like to see how they stand up to the competition according to you.
Cheers Ivan! We'll be doing another one of these tests this year so will try to include the Scribes!
Look forward to this! Especially the new Scribe Elan SL
I love do sound of the HUNT freehub! No need for a bell when riding on busy cycle highways in London, just freewheel for a second and people will know you are coming :)
Good to know. What really would have been interesting is to normalise the bearings and see if that reduces the (minimal) differences. But I guess I’ll stick with my aluminium rims anyway.
I would chose between, winspace,farsports,light bicycle,yoeleo those are excellent wheels too
I have a set of HED Ardennes SL wheels w HED hubs on my rim brake equipped road bike and really like the smoothness and acceleration I feel from these. Based on your test of carbon w disc wheels, I would either stick with the HEDs that did well in your test or the Hunt wheels, which have a reputation of being lighter versus other brands tested. Good video and analysis guys.
I went with the Zipp 404 Firecrest because of a) the lifetime warranty and b) the hub. The ZR1 is my new favorite hub. It's serviceable and robust
I have them too and love them. Something that wasnt mentioned in the video is the difference of inner rim width. They only mentioned that the Campag wheels have only 19mm. The Zipps have 23mm inner rim width and with a 28mm tire u can ride really low tire pressures. The added comfort is something i really started to appreciate as i am getting older and doing long rides.
I would have also liked a wheel by wheel commentary about subjective cornering and comfort of each wheelset. You have established that the speed differences are small, but do some feel better so that you would like to have them on your bike? Great video though!
I would love to see the new Mavics COSMIC SLRs being tested. They don't seem to pop up in tests much these days don't they?
I regret purchasing a set of 303 Firecrest. Within 3 months, the freehub had water ingress and all springs went rusty and are now stuck. I have to purchase a freehub for 100 euros.
On the other hand, I've been riding on original aluminium wheels for 2 years, still spinning without extra cost. Probably my biggest mistake for a small gain and more for the bling.
This is where the Shimano or campaign shine! With cup and cone bearings with some love once or two times a year they last for more than one bike lifetime
@@dakalla I have been building wheels out of passion for many years and I work for a well-known large bearing manufacturer who is also a partner of a cycling federation... And I found myself working to restore the bearing part of many Shimano wheels because the teams world tour have big problems with this and Shimano does not correct the degradation because it only offers part of the bearing set, the outer raceways are missing.
The restoration was an extremely complicated and delicate job but I got a very good result and I improved the sealing, the lubrication and applied the right adjustment... Now everything is fine for all these wheels but the question is, why Shimano can't do that!?!
@@dakalla to be clear, bearings are fine, the hub is fine, it's the pawls and pawl springs that have rusted so much that they were not engaging. I discovered this since in last couple of rides (especially behind red lights), I found my feet going down immediately when pedalling. I checked the thru axle and then the wheel, turned out the pawls were not springing back..
Id of like to see some winspace hyper wheels in there
We'll add them to the list
I have zipp 303s and they are fantastic.
me too.
I bought a pair of CLX Rapide a month ago. Fitted 28mm tires as I couldn't get 26mm in time.
After watching this I'm very glad I couldn't.
I had the exactly same experience with Jamie that when I had a 26c tire on my Roval Rapide I hit a road furniture with the rim 'cause the 26c tire wasn't wide enough to protect the rim. Luckily I didn't hit it too hard and could get away with only a scuff mark on the rim though. Ever since that, I have been using 28c tires on the Rapide wheels.
What is the inside width of these rims and is it a result of the hookless design or the width of the rim? Asking as I'm considering getting wider but not hookless rims.
@@gregmorrison7320 Roval Rapide wheels are hooked; I believe this has to do more with the discrepancy between the outer width and the inner width of the rim, particularly on the front wheel where I got hit. The inner width is 21mm whereas the outer width of the front wheel is 35mm.
Great Test, DT Swiss erc/arc were missing.
Being a heavier rider I've never veered off alu wheels. There are huge speed gains based on weight and hub quality but none have failed on build quality. Campag rule the roost for me, 26 mm tires on Zonda's are my go to on my terrible roads, I might go up the alu chain when covid is over. There is too much traffic to race near me unless it's stop light to stop light so carbon wheels are pointless for me. A much lighter rider on baby smooth roads might get some benefit, if those roads exist.
You guys worked hard on this, thanks for the heads up 👍
Many thanks for this #video 👍I appreciate how informative it is and how much time & effort you had to spent testing all these #wheels. Cheers! 😀
As for wheelset suggestions: include all those on the world tour teams! Enve, Corima, Dura Ace, etc. we can then speculate if wheels made a difference! Cav vs Jakobsen, etc! Great test and love the real world watt choices!
I bought the Fulcrum Wind 40 DB wheels to replace those horrible aluminium anchors on my Aethos Comp. I would have liked to have something more high-end, but realised that I don’t race and Wiggle sold a pair for about 1,000 euros (not GBP). I think it was a good bargain, they are nice to ride. Though heavy, they are good enough for a complete amateur like me. Probably I would buy Roval Alpinist CL if I had the cash!
I'm super happy with my JRA MahiMahi wheelset I got for my Orbea Orca recently. Would love to see that in a test 😊
I appreciate the time put into making this video
Great video but how could you leave out Enve?
Thanks for doing this. There just isn't enough comparison data on all the aero stuff out there.
I have the cheaper Hunts and they are excellent. They just feel fast and comfortable. The free hub is very basic tech but it’s easy to work on. If you have the money spare then the dearer ones with better hubs and spokes would be the icing on the cake but I wouldn’t spend any more than that.
Thanks for that very helpful test! I hope the fingers are better by now...
Thanks for this. Really interesting comparison. I will return to this if I am ever in the market for a new set of wheels!
For the weekend warriors and cycle enthusiasts, strength and durability are more important than merely a 2-3watts savings at 40km/h
Thanks for the post, guys, another good video with practical, useful info. Bang for the buck, smoothness, stability, durability, for the age group racer, I have been super happy with Steve and Annie HED’s Jet series and RC Performance series wheels for decades. Save your money for bikes and race/fondo/century reg fees, travel expenses ❤
Lun 45mm and better fitness made a big difference in my speed.
Lun 45s or 50s? I thought they were hyper 50s.
@@nickdalamagas3540 Lun is also made by Winspace with all the goodness of the Hypers but cheaper $798 USD
Seems like a marginal difference overall across the board. I'm even wondering if outside factors such as difference in wind may have influenced the results. On my 39.3-mile (63.2 km) ride this morning, I was 10 seconds /mile slower than the same ride yesterday morning because of the slight difference in wind direction/velocity! I want an aero bike!
I agree. As much as I appreciate the effort there are just so many questions. The wind can obviously change during the day. How did they measure the time at the start and finish? What tire pressure did they use (the Zipp rims are hookless and 5 bar is the maximum, did they use higher tire pressure with the other wheels or was it always 5 bar)? They should have also talked more about the differenct rim depth.
People crank on Specialized, but as these tests show, they must have some idea on what they are doing. But I love that H.E.D. is still out there and still doing quite well. Kudos to his Widow and those running the company now. What really surprised me the most was how well the Chinese knockoffs did.
The reason the roval wheels show the rim is to provide a a trip effect to the wind to make it stay attached longer, if you light bulb your tire your robbing yourself of speed,check out Hambini .
I got the campags in 45 for £1449 last year and I love them
As a big rider (105kg) the Campagnolo Bora One 50 have held up for over 2 years and are still true.
Same time or not, quality wheels are a real thing. There are many other elements of performance when comparing wheels, not only speed.
Would be cool if you get your hands on the new CADEX 50 Ultra to test and compare them
I would like to see a video where you test various brands (DT Swiss Mon Chasseral vs 1560 SPline, Fulcrum Speed 25 vs Wind 55, Zipp 202 vs 404, Enve 2.3 vs 5.6, Mavic, Bontrager, FFWD, whatever brand, just use name brands) of aero wheels, and using the same brands, thier light weight wheel counterparts. 2 circuits, one with climbs, and one with more flats. I wanna see what brands tend to excel where, and what brands have the best wheels where.
Furthermore, I would like to see a cyclocross wheels Edition. Various brands have good cross wheels, like Enve, Sector, Psimet, Bontrager(Paradigm CX, its actually a great set!), Zipp, I9, Kappius, Giant, perhaps throw in a few brands that have well known tubulars (and another video for tubeless) with wide internal widths for cross tires, and make a video there. There's very little CX material on here for CX nerds like myself. Or maybe hire me and give me the video making materials you guys use and I will start a CX Playlist for you guys for anything and all things CX related. I am a massive CX fan and as a mechanic, I have vast knowledge on the fun stuff.
Hunt are Farsports Kaze with a sticker on them, as confirmed by people at Farsports in private. You can buy them as a 69mm instead of 60 from Farsports. That’s what I have used for 3 years. Price is the same but with DT240 hubs. Never gone out of true.
The only difference between well made cheaper wheels and expensive wheels besides the massive price difference is the marketing waffle.
The 10sec in time which come be due to numerous factors isnt worth spending £2000 more on but buying a wheel with better hubs like dt swiss and better spokes which will needs to true less and are more reliable is worth the extra money, companies sell a fad of 2 seconds faster over 40km instead of 4x more durable and longer lasting.
Mmmm waffles
As a recreational cyclist, I wouldn't buy carbon anything, if I was young and still racing, I probably would.
And as I wheelbuilder, I can honestly say that a good aluminium rim is better than carbon in every aspect except aerodynamics.
@@Jacob99174 caramel mmmmm
And the hubs
This was a really well done test, I'd love to see another with more brands or even gravel /cyclocross for road sints.
Winspace Hyper would be my choice
The Winspace brand has achieved fantastic reviews. Liam please have a look at them, it will be worth it.
Majority of Hyper reviews on build quality, durability & speed have been fantastic. Right up there with the best if not better 👍
Why do you think they excluded them from this video? They decimate all
Deceptive graph with an x-axis non-zero _made it look like there were big differences between wheelsets_
My takeaway is with both riders the max difference between all the wheels was 13 sec, or about 2%. However, the time difference between Jamie and Liam was about 1:40 or 15%. Which tells me Watts will beat equipment. If I want to get faster I need to train better.
Two comments:
1) The price difference might not be justified in speed, but it will probably show itself in build quality. Be it the quality of the build itself (even spoke tensions, etc) or the longevity of the bearings, you probably are getting more for your money with the more expensive wheels. At least, you'd hope so...
2) By definition, if you do the same 300W for the same time in your race, you're not going to finish with more energy on the fastest wheels because energy = power * time. If you're putting out the same power for the same duration, then you're expending the same energy. What you're really hoping is that the wheels save you time...
What this video is showing us is that the differences between the wheels, at least when it comes to speed, are - as expected - completely irrelevant. A few seconds up or down are negligible considering the price, and could also be easily attributed to the changing wind conditions.
Exactly, we would buy the ones towards the cheaper end as in real world conditions the differences are so small :)
Do test some of the Yoeleo wheels. They perform well in other independent tests
Being worth it or not depends on your disposable income and your purpose of use. If you earn $400k a year, a set of aerodynamic carbon wheels costing $2k is not that expensive even if you just regularly putter along at 25kph with it.
Also, why were the graphs and table not sorted by speed/time?
Would be nice to see some reviews on the Edco Maloja 50 wheelsets
At these prices, it is ridiculous to not get Winspace Hyper or Elite Drive wheels
True
Or, one could configure a wheelset based on their wants and needs. For example:
40 front 50 rear
Sapim CX-Ray spokes + Sapim brass nipples
DT Swiss 350 or any good hubset that doesn't cost a bomb
A trustworthy wheel-building studio
@@yonglingng5640 one could yes, but let's face it, most cyclists won't
@@robbeelsas Because
1) Many don't know wheels can be configured as a build like a frame-up bike build.
2) Many don't know what they truly want in a wheelset.
3) Brands, brand names are everything for some of them.
@@yonglingng5640 you forgot:
4) Many do know but are simply not willing to put in the time to research the components that are 4.1) the best fit for their purposes and 4.2) work well together
Would like to have seen the Reynolds Aero 65 DB and the Fulcrum Speed 55 Cmptzn DB. I'm waiting for my new Merida Reacto 9000 that comes with the Reynolds so interested to see how they fare. The Fulcrums are about the same price as the Campys but get the better hub bearings that come in the Ultra version of the Campys (worth a couple of watts according to Fulcrum). Actually it would be interesting to see a comparison of all 3 different Fulcrum 55s (Wind/Speed/Speed Cmptzn) to see what EUR1,000 gets you in terms of performance.
Good review, guys. Chapeau!
would like to see you test the cheapie Chinese wheels you can get online for a fraction of the price. I got a couple different sets and they seem pretty good; certainly lighter and faster than the standard Mavics my bike came with.
just paid £171 for Vel RL28 alu wheel. They weigh 1596g. Also had Vel RL 50 on offer got £360 but heavier.
The result fit's to the expectation, once profile height is fixed, with reasonable build quality, the performance difference is not large between brands.
Besides the low profile aluminum wheel, I would like also see one comparison with 3~5 spoke TT standard carbon wheels
The reason why Shimano's wheel is slow may be the grease.
Shimano even put on their Dua ace wheel the ``Shimano premium grease''. But this grease is not for competition.
I've replaced them with better grease (AZ BGR-001).
But anyway, the Shimano wheel is expensive and thus other brands can be a better choice.
I own a pair of Scope R5 on a reasonably priced aero / endurance bike (Rose Reveal) and a pair of Scope R3 on a 2018 Cannondale Synapse Hi-mod built as a lightweight climbing bike and I am very satisfied with both sets. Could be worth testing next time :) (PS : the freehubs are VERY LOUD ...)
Interesting…I guessed there wouldn’t be much difference in the performance, good to see the numbers. I’d like to know how Vel 50 RL wheels would compare. Earlier this year I bought a set (on sale) from Sigma Sport and only paid about £400! They weigh ~1600g and are nice looking. Bargain for the price. I’d never be able to justify spending £1k+ for a set of hoops…my wife would kill me! 😂
For me (amateur fat rider) living in Madeira Island, i just want light wheight and safety. This is worst than the Alpes here. I would like to see a test of china wheels... winspace - elite- ican - yoeleo - velobuild - trifox - etc
Almost perfect test, what I miss is a control wheel a cheap £100 aluminium to see the baseline. Well done!
edit: oh I see thats the top comment, I should have read comments first :p
Nice video so far. Comparison on a climb would be nice too. And for sure a freehub soundcheck 😎
I know Winspace reviews have been done and done again, but surely they for into this comparo?? Universally considered among the very best bang for buck on the market, almost flawless in construction, and light af. Hell, even Hambini loves the things!
We hear you loud and clear! We’ll see what we can sort out for the next one!
Would love to have seen some "China Carbon" wheels compared: the cheap no name brand ones that are $300-$450 USD and are controversial because they have no brand name behind them.
I once broke a mid-level Roval on a bike I bought used and Specialized gave me a brand new top-of-the-line complete wheelset under warranty for free. You don’t get that with cheap wheels!
Maybe next time drop in a shallow wheelset I.E Campag 35 as a control wheel to test aero benefits of deeper rims
I should go for one of the cheapest, I like wide tiers so I should pick wide rims as well, like 21 mm. One with silent freehub and that can handle high weight and some bumbs
ENVE foundation 60s could be a good addition here - they seem to fare well when they’ve appeared on other comparisons
enjoyed this informative video that was done on flats, but would like to see a comparative test done on hills which we climb a lot of here in NorCal.
Watch this space
No mention of tyre sizes used or comfort factor. For me fast but comfortable is both integral. I’d be ok to spend around £1500 for a fast comfortable endurance wheel that climbs ok so guess I’d want somewhere between 28 - 32mm tyres? But no point splashing out on new wheels if they are only aerodynamically good for 28s and anything bigger will mess it up.
I have a set of Rovals set up with tubes in them to ride day to day and an older set of Corima tubulars that weigh a bit less and are still 100% excellent wheels.
Great group test and also I have those same Oakley Frogskins TdF sunglasses which are pretty nice to ride sometimes! Cheers
Winspace Hypers are better than most all of those wheels what are you afraid of 🤔
I got a pair of prox ultralight cabonspoke wheels C66DB cost only 700euro and I am really satisfied with them. Especially that they are light and so smooth riding over bumps and rough roads. I got tubular only 1100gr. I am a bit old school.
By the way they have ceramic bearings.
If you can afford carbon wheels then buy it.
Hobbies are expensive anyway, at least cycling is a healthy hobby.
It probably will not make you any faster , but they look good, and I love he "swoosh" sound they make when I'm riding fast 🤗
Well put!
Excelent video. I have a pair of Elite Drive wheels from China. They feel good for 1000 usd.
Go ride a set of Vision metron, your jaw will dropped.
Nice real world testing.