Controversial Comic Books 2018 - Is RAGS...a SCAM?
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- Опубликовано: 25 дек 2018
- Rags, the zombie apocalypse comic book is the biggest indie hit of 2018 but there have been some controversial business decisions made by the creators that is the focus of this video.
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Развлечения
First off, if anyone has bought the work from us directly and feels they’ve been scammed or haven’t received what they believed they should have received, reach out to us so we can give you a refund and rectify the situation.
Second; Since starting this book fans have expected us to act as though we have the backing and budget of Marvel or DC. Truth of the matter is that we don’t, yet we’ve had to enact some pretty unconventional methods in order to give our fans what they wanted.
Third; you’re missing some very key facts like, this book was never designed or intended to become a physical book…it just ended up that way due to demand. Shipping and printing COST. And at the time no one had the $2,000 available to place in a print order. So we found a VERY low cost solution with a printer that allowed us to print what we needed and also eliminate the need to warehouse unshipped copies of the work. So yeah we went print on demand.
Also what this guy fails to mention, is that there are two versions of the work that’s out. Censored (retail) and Uncensored. This is VERY important to distinguish between the two version because 1) The Censored Version is controlled by AP and we honestly have no control over how many gets printed. And 2) The UNCENSORED versions were supposed to be Patreon exclusives only. Part of our rules upon joining (you can look at the overview) was that no one leak anything outside of Patreon. This included the Uncensored physical books. So in order to maintain control of the Patreon versions of the book we took some temporary actions in order to enforce our rules there. THIS is what people are having an issue with. That they can’t take the Uncensored books and flip them for $400-500 after we finish fulfillment. Had people just waited until after the run was complete there wouldn’t be an issue.
So yeah, the books on ebay? If you bought those you did get scammed, but it wasn’t from us.
Brian I don't think there's problem that you print on demand but the fact that you told your first round of Patreon users that it was ultra rare and printed only to fulfill the first round of Patreon users and then continued to offer the book is where I feel there is a problem
You are saying the UNCENSORED versions are Patreon specific and uncensored is AP but the Print on Demand version of #1 is censored as well and you're most definitely not being clear on that. When I asked you if the print on demand issues are censored, you said "some are some arent" when the answer is that they are not, so YOU are the one failing to mention a number of specifics regarding this situation
@@comicfan6114 how about a little context behind the question
@@comicfan6114 Or are you asking Niehlis?
southstaronline that is the intention that is expressed by Rags as far as I have understood it. Yes.
So you're upset that Brian is doing what he can to prevent people from scamming unaware people online with grossly overpriced secondary comics and making sure that those people understand where they can get it for a reasonable price?
Sounds like you're just mad that YOU can't scam folks.
Wahhhhh
How can you say he is preventing people from scamming when in his Print on demand listing he writes "perfect for resellers" Buy 5 get a 25% discount?
@@KeyCollectorComics a 40.00 price tag was the biggest Fuck You to flippers we could agree on.
Josh, in the Print On Demand listing for the Patreon Exclusive #2 variant, it specifically says "Perfect for re-sellers" and gives a discount for purchasing 5. if you think that is preventing people from scamming buyers on ebay, then the conversation between you and I is over because you are intentionally failing to accept the truth about this
@@KeyCollectorComics are the pod issues the same as the Patreon ones?
Excellent video. I mentioned in my last video that I got ripped thinking "pre-antartic" meant super low print run (along the lines of Cursed Pirate Girl self published version). Luckily I only lost $30 while other suckers paid over $300! I knew something was up when I started to see people selling as "pre-antartic, will be in hand in a week". I tried to do my due diligence by researching their patreon and other websites, but I personally could not find anything that said I could still get issue 1. I did read an interview by them saying that no version was uncensored because they wanted to be out on the racks and not behind the counter. I mentioned in my video how stupid those bunnies are and if they didn't want to do it right, then they should have just put clothes on her or penciled it in ways where she was covered. I'm a collector for 30 years and I've been getting tired of all of the hype every week on books and "low print runs". If you can't get to your store Wednesday morning, you typically can't find the "hot" books of the week since speculators scoop them all up. Doesn't anyone remember the 90s??Every book has a low print run these days compared to years ago! Dollar bins are filled with low print run books from years ago, and 10 years from now, they'll be filled with the flash in the pan books of today. Think back just a few years ago with books like Sunflower or Self-Storage. They were super hot low print books and who cares about them now? Rags was actually a good story with good art (except for the bunnies) and could have been a long term classic, but I fear too many people were shut out of issue 2 because the publisher didn't believe in the book enough to print more 1st prints. I don't buy 2nd prints and if I can't find a 1st print at a good price, I'll just drop the series all together. Most comics today have to be collectible to have a good run, and with this book being published in different places with multiple covers, it will never be collectible. Sorry for the rant, but the comic business is pissing me off these days with their money grabs. It's my fault alone that I got ripped on rags, but the publishers really should have stopped printing their patreon version once they also published with Antarctic.
Lot of good points but so much misinformation. If anyone is a Patron and feels scammed because they can't flip the book anymore DM Brian for a refund.
Optimus Spider .... Shane, Are you Biff Tannen that is highlighted in the video?
So how much is the refund 3.99?
My buddy told me to Check out your videos! Great stuff!!
Thank you...thanks to your friend also
This has been hard to get! I ask my LCS if they can order it . But no luck , so I just when to AP site to order from them direct instead of eBay
Its been a hot one
I did my own video on this. Calling it a scam is too far.
I never called it a scam. I proposed the question because there are some questionable decisions made by the creative team behind the book
Key Collector Comics Well, as a comics creator, I skeet the day wondering what I would do if I had a garage full of my own comics which were selling for $500 on eBay.
That certainly is a test of character.
@@KeyCollectorComics You're not calling it a scam, but you're sure doing your best to insinuate it.
@@Caveatk4 I wouldn't call it doing my best because it was effortless to take the contradictory words of the people behind the book and show that there is something potentially occurring in a community that I am a part of that might be harmful to collectors
@@KeyCollectorComics Or it might be something completely benign and this is a good way for you to stick your finger in the eye of a creator whose been critical of the spec community.
Also to clearing the virgin limited to 200. I originally thought it was 100 because of the site, but AP sent out a tweet way back when saying they had printed 200, but only 100 would be sold online, and 100 split between shows and conventions etc
jjforeal2 I’m not trying to talk badly about AP but that’s misleading. “Variant cover limited to 100”
I've been chasing #1 for a few months. I have #3 or #4 pre ordered through my LCS. It'll be interesting to see if it shows. Or will this kill the market and it folds.
I hope it doesn't kill it. I honestly don't want these guys to get sunk. I just dont think its fair that they make it possible for people to get scammed and put up a front as if they are trying to do the honorable thing.
Thank you so much for pointing out that these creators are completely unethical. They make multiple nebulous claims, reject every opportunity to clear things up, and then complain when people point out all of this. And to cap it off, they made their print on demand links available to backstab their own publisher.
Also, when you create a popular comic from the ground up, let me know how you feel when people pay their rent off your coat tails while you work three jobs to keep your fans happy.
As I said in the video, I created Key Collector Comics and I get emails daily that people made money off of the service I offer. I am happy about that. I like to offer something where someone can supplement their income. You guys asked for $20 to be a part of the patreon. If someone sells a book one time and makes money on it, what does it matter and how do you think its fair to punish your other supporters who arent doing that?
Also, a portion of the comic community buys and sells comics. If you think that wouldn't happen then you guys were fooling yourselves.
I didn't make the video in order to hurt your Patreon memberships but there's a significant amount of confusion about how you guys are going to market and you're not doing a good job of making it clear to people of what that is. Even Brian, in this thread has said the Patreon is uncensored, the AP is censored. What about the print on demand. Does that fall outside of Patreon even though, for a time, you had to be a patreon member to receive it? And why cant that continue to be print on demand? Why can't i order that today for $5?
Great video
YellowFlash 2 thank you
One day I enter my LCS and I see this book the #1 both versions. I pick 1 of each up read them and check the next day all of them still there took the gamble to buy all of them. Both version start a bid for $50 on the virgin (the only one by that time) when to some channels and comment to check the book out and boom the trend start the book became hot. I understand the creators point of view, but on the same way I believe it is going to kill the hype of the book, at the end this will not do justice to the storie and art.
I really love that book. Great story so far, wish it was more than 7 issues...only the AP books tho
jjforeal2 like I said I heard the story is good so far and the art is amazing. Maybe it will go longer
jjforeal2 I think a lot depends on the creators
This video: "Whaaaaa whaaaa I can't scalp people using rare variants that were only made special as a special thank you to patrons! Whaaaaaa!" Good grief.
No that is the problem. When you offer print on demand and encourage re-sellers to buy it and sell it on ebay, you are encouraging scalping
Are you really THAT daft? Seems you are. Brian and the rest of the RAGS team explicitly are AGAINST assholes reselling it, and they introduced extra runs to devalue the copies of those EBAY scalpers who were selling off the rare copies just for the cash, instead of appreciating it for the comic itself. @@KeyCollectorComics
@@KainYusanagi
They aren't against reselling it. They've stated that. They are against them reselling it and "making money off of their coattails." They've said that multiple times.
They have also stated that thousands of Print On Demand issues were printed and that this turned into an unintentional "cash cow". These are not my words.
So wouldn't it stand to reason that if you had that kind of success with your Print on Demand that you would do it again? Does it make more sense to make your Patreon members happy by keeping something exclusive? Or to open up a print on demand to anyone because one person sold the Rags #2 variant?
Does it make sense that you would price your Rags #2 variant at $40 with a discount for 5 issues purchased that brought the price down to $30 and encourage re-sellers to buy it? I know they said that its a big F-U to the re-seller, to price it at $30 but #1 was selling for $50 - $200. So wouldn't it be a big F-U to price it at $200? Because $30 seems like a perfect price point for a re-seller to still make a solid amount off of it and also Rags to make a good amount on it. And if they see nothing wrong with that, then why did they take it down after I posted this video?
By the way I see 5 sales on ebay that sold for over $30. So that means 5 people got scammed and one or more re-sellers made money on it.
How is that being daft? This is a plausible occurrence. I'm not saying this was the intention of the Rags team. But the Rags team said this is a learning experience and they learned the first time that people will buy these issues and resell them for much more than the purchase price. So why would you risk that again? Just because one person sold it on eBay.
What is this "print on demand"? If you buy a copy they print another one? How would you print it yourself?
Print on demand is a service some independent comic producers use so they don't have to do a big print run. Check out indy planet. They initially controlled how much was printed and distributed it themselves but a couple times now they allowed anyone to have access to printing the comic. Let me know if that makes sense
Great work
Thank you buddy
Nuclear bad take
I want to be able to buy uncensored version without being Patreon patron. I support by buying product.
Great video, Nick! I bought the first two issues from Antarctic not knowing anything about this Patreon mess. I’m not sure I’ll buy any more issues going forward. I hate to reward shadiness.
Interesting, very interesting.
Can anyone tell me how to determine the actual first printing of this book?
The orange colored title doesn't have a printing since its print on demand. The first printing of the Antarctic press version, the title is white, second printing is yellow, third is red. Go to minute 12:25 in the video and i have all the covers displayed with the designation below them
@@KeyCollectorComics Thank you and yup I got screwed. Thanks Rags creative team.
Wr0ngNumb3r what’d you pay
@@KeyCollectorComics I believe it was around $60.
Wr0ngNumb3r well on the bright side, some paid $150+
What great work investing this book. I was skeptical about the comic as well but you did the work beyond. Thanks for the heads up before I start looking for them. Appreciate the community and the video
Thank you. Well said
Not sure anyone has seen flippers and or collectors. Definitely not making big money off this.
So this whole occurrence leaves me confused and apprehensive about this comic. I have heard it was good and I love a good zombie story so I had intended to get it after the buzz died down. No intention of joining a group for 20$ a month or paying 100's of dollars for a new comic, but something affordable, now I dont know if it's not only gonna happen but if it even can happen. Am I a normie, do I have to join patrion, am I a sucker if I buy a copy off ebay and if after i read it am i a flipper/scammer for selling my copy if i dont want to continue owning it? Can i collect each issue? I'm at a loss!
B.t.w. thanks nick! Excellentwork as always.
Thanks for the compliment my friend. IF you love a good zombie story and want to get it for that reason, then by all means and its a well-reviewed book. Buying it for over cover price or the cost of Print on demand....I would recommend against it. You're not a normie, no. The standard Rags #1 cover is what they refer to as a "Normie". hahah
Antarctic Press website has the retail 3rd print up on their website if you'd like to try it out. It's regular cover price and through AP so we can't scam you.
@@gingerdominion163 like i said and will continue to say...i want you guys to be successful and I hope this turns around for you. I'm just pointing out some inconsistencies between actions and words and it is my company's responsibility to be that voice in the comic book community. Id be happy to support you guys if you can organize your business plan so that it doesn't put collectors at risk for getting scammed.
@@KeyCollectorComics you keep using the word scam, and that's really what we're taking issue with. If you'd said, this book is confusing the fuck out of the aftermarket, that'd be great. Brian and Trent aren't looking for investors, they want readers. We're the ones up Brian's ass to make Variant covers. I'm a Patron too. I don't get paid for this shit, but I support these guys because they want to make something wonderful. Printing and distribution aren't free though. Of course they are going to charge money for their work, but scamming? C'mon. Beyond working out kinks in shipping, everyone is getting what they paid for.
Wanna hear what Brian has to say ? I did an interview in this very subject with him . Check it out on my channel
Whatever you do. Keep this up!!! Thanks!
I paid for your key collector app and I am even more happy that I have done so after watching this video. This is the stuff that is ruining collecting. It's not mass printing, variants, or exclusives. It's people in the industry that think they know better and than everyone else and pretend under the guise of some comic code that they are some kind of "Mr. Robot" when it still comes down to money. I appreciate you making this video. Please continue to do so. Let the people decide, but give them the knowledge to do so. Glad I did not buy a copy of "Rags". Almost did. But I don't want to support an artist with that type of attitude.
Thank you my friend. I appreciate your support.
Antarctic press, at least it's not source point.
Whitey Mamasan not a fan?
I think the creators have a lot to improve on the business side of publishing. My lcs don't get Rags books in, my only other source is ebay. I read the book and found out about their Patreon.
I signed up , paid for the month to get a physical copy, only to find out that if you don't pay by the 1st day of the month you will not get what you pay for because they have difficulty in sorting their business. The book is available, they have my shipping details, I paid, but it's inconvenient for them to sort out payments if done in the middle of the month, so I get nothing. That is a policy they made so that they can control their shipments better.
Thank you for commenting
Good content
Thanks for the encouragement
Glad I passed on buying #1 and picked up all my issues at cover. Might be a good time to dump these books. This is a great example of the bubble that I believe we are in with the comic book industry.
*insert Picard facepalm here* You're looking for a scam where there is none.
Im not looking for one. I'm laying out the facts in the creator's own words. When someone says they don't want people reselling their books, then they post a print on demand listing that specifically says "perfect for re-sellers", it seems a little contradictory
@@KeyCollectorComics Why are people ignoring you when you present this fact? That's a little messed up.
How long ago was this book offered? I remember a Diversity and Comics review of this book. He gave the art high marks but the coloring was poor, I think? I'm pretty sure that it was this book that made him choose Antarctic to publish Jawbreakers before Mark Waid intervened?
I think it hit the shelves in September but digitally they launched at the beginning of the year. I'm not sure when they fulfilled their first round of hard copies to their Patreon supporters but judging by ebay, you'll see the print on demand opened up to the public early october
Thanks for the info Nick🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽
Curtis Campos of course
You're getting a lot of crap below. I appreciate this video because it points out the problem with On-Demand printing. Maybe they don't realize what they are doing and are in it for the love of comics, but I don't think they are naive enough to understand it's not a sustainable aftermarket model and the experimental publishing method has failed. Thanks, Nick.
being a patron of rags and knowing the creators i can say without a doubt you are a 100 percent wrong
Great video Nick. I’m sure lots of Indy book companies print more of a title they say is rare. I’ve been to several comic cons in 2018. I don’t want to name the company but the books that have been sold out keep appearing at each con. For example.The writer of the book told me he only has 20 from his personal copies. Of course they all sold at the con for $50 over cover price. Then I go to another con and I ask my buddy to see if they have any more. The writer told him the same thing. So either the writer is not good at math or he just keeps finding more personal copies.
shoot me an email. nick@keycollectorcomics.com i have a suspicion who it is and if we're thinking of the same book, then I agree with you
"abnormie" LOL....
haha...when i listened back i didnt realize i had said it and thought it was pretty funny....good catch
Nick...you the man for this. Great investigative piece here. How did you first hear about the possible scam?
Hey Paul. Thank you. Someone reached out to me about how they were part of the first round of Patreon supporters and were promised exclusivity to the variant #1 and that it kept on become available to new patreon supporters when it was supposed to be retired. I didn't pay much attention until the other day when I saw that they listed the second Print on Demand issue and were directing it to re-sellers.
Nick, sounds like they got caught. The fact they couldn't answer your simple questions speaks volumes in my mind. This wreaks of some foul play on some Brain Trust level.
👍👍👍👍👍👍💯💯💯💯💯💯
Sorry for the double post. But I don’t understand why this guy cares. If I get it didn’t like it and sold it to someone who wanted it enough to pay more for it. What’s the problem. I get rid of something I don’t like and someone pays what they are willing to pay. Seems to me he may be upset he’s not getting a piece. This is super frustrating. In order to buy comics and remain a fan I have to sell comics. If I can’t then I can’t buy anymore is that what he wants no one buying it. Sorry frustrates me with entitled people.
He cares because other people were making money and he wasn't. If you knew about this guy he's all about the $$$.
So I’m wondering where that leaves the Antarctic Press books. Will these be the books that have any value at all at this point? Or are we just going to treat this guy as a pariah and say f*k it, because he been manipulating the market. I have been preordering these now for a while on a whim, so I’m not the heavily invested in this thank goodness!
I think a lot of independent books that aren't an ongoing long-term series eventually lose value unless they become a movie or series
Naked woman running from zombies while carrying assault rifles? Does it matter after that?
Dude, this is some great investigative work. This is a shady situation with shady characters
WOW this is crazy
Agreed - sounds super dodgy. Heard a lot of buzz around Rags so I tried to buy the first 2 issues but it was a super confusing experience to sort through all the BS. I hope they just 'fess up and clarify what the deal is. Thanks for highlighting this!
We have explained it many times. But people here what they want.
I literally spent an hour with this guy explaining what issues were pods, which were AP, and which were Patreon. None of that made the cut though.
great info good looking out
paul stevenas thank you Paul
Wow you must be joking. You do know that there were less than 400 printed ever of the #1 Pateron Variant, the so called Tim Lim cover variant. That is about as exclusive and limited as it gets. The only reason why any more than the initial 100 or so were ever printed was to reward the huge influx of people who joined Pateron in late Oct, early Nov. Who really cares if its one of 100 or one of 400, if you care about that stuff then you don't have the correct intentions in reading comics in the first place, you are just hunting rarities, maybe take up coin collecting or something else less personal. The creator of this video is just putting out mis information and half truths trying to make the comic creators look bad, most likely because he has some personal problems with them. Yes taken out of context some of these screen shots of peoples responses look funny. But this is the age of fast replies. Its not like we all have the time to wait and carefully consider our answers to questions or have a team of writers find the right way to word something before saying it. For example the thing that the video creator harps on about at the end of this, the "some are some aren't" quote. Well you should first understand that your question was not a question with a clear black and white answer, are the POD's uncensored? Well the answer is, yes and no, some are, some aren't. The #1 POD is censored, and the #2 POD is not censored. As for the other opinions you present, all that I can say is this is a very shoddy attempt at research if I have ever seen one. If you want clear concise answers to questions, just ask someone on the team, and ask clear questions, do your homework first, so you know what questions to ask. General questions get general answers, clear questions get clear answers.
Wow Jimmy. You have the attitude of a mom who defends her kid regardless of any kind of trouble he gets into. Imagine a world where people didn't hold other accountable for the promises they make to their customers.
The question was very clear. You are seeing a snippet of the conversation. If you want to do your homework, the rest of it is on facebook, starting with a picture of Rags #1. There were a lot of people who weren't clear on what was inside the #1 POD.
But let's just say that my question wasn't clear. Do you think its right that Brian gave an ambiguous answer when people are getting scammed and are unclear as to what is what? He is the owner of this IP and its his job to preserve the integrity of his work. Part of that is transparency and awareness.
Jimmy, regardless of how quickly you need to answer a question, if you have honest intentions the answer wouldn't come off as looking funny.
General questions get general answers. That is a maxim that I guarantee no successful business person, with a good reputation would own
Thanks for the info, i had no idea and was planning on buying a copy. Now im not even getting near it
Yeah I mean, I hate to take money out of someone's pocket but I'd hate it more if it came out of yours and wasn't a good choice
Could not agree more, been seeing this everywhere. I picked up a virgin #1 awhile back and wish I had not just based on the ethics. Thanks for calling it out. By the way, love the app!
Tim the Collector thank you Tim
@@southstaronline I paid $142 lol.
...and it won't be worth anywhere near that. My mistake, but it happens sometimes when you get caught up in a bidding war.
I almost fell for this myself. In all fairness, I think the person I was going to buy it from got duped themselves. The only thing that stopped me was I noticed some were list as censored and others not and I couldn't figure out what was what, but I could tell something was weird about it. Good work on this one.
This is gonna be such a popular video. I feel it.
Even if they didn't know at first,as soon as it became aware to tgem they should've took action publicly and swiftly.imo it sounds like an inside job.glad i didnt win those bids i had on the bay...
The art of the steal.
Also, I find it funny that he's so upset with flippers when his convoluted system is the only reason they were able to do it. There's also potential for a lawsuit. I seriously doubt his non selling clause would hold water in court, but his guarantee that those variants would be limited absolutely would. Patreon, and anything like it, is a risk. The book might or might not even be made. That's part of the gamble, you supported that creator without knowing and here's your payoff. Once that book is printed new patreons shouldn't be rewarded the same as people who took that risk.
Hey Del...thats 100% right and perfectly said. They created the system that allowed flippers to do that. At least at one time those issues did have value but not after opening up and flooding the market. The problem with that is, very few people know that they opened up the print on demand to flood the market because they don't communicate that to the public on a forum that is accessible. Discord and Patreon are not sites people look at often and most of the Discord is locked down. Nowhere on Facebook or Twitter have I seen them make mention of how they are impacting ebay sales by flooding the market with print on demand issues
@@KeyCollectorComics Hey Key Collector. One of the things mostly ignored is that the LCS and Antarctic Press got majorly screwed by what they did. The only reason why their book got so much hype in the first place is because of Antarctic Press publishing the book. If AP wasn't publishing nobody would have even noticed. These guys screwed over a lot of the people who were backing them.
The Rags team sounds like a bunch of politicians waving a wand of BS.
Ya I didn't follow the rags train idk? Just seemed like fake hype, I'd rather spend my money on a comic I actually want then a money grab
This sounds a bit like a witch hunt.
Alex B just laying out the details in the creator’s own words and pointing out where there are inconsistencies
@@KeyCollectorComics appreciate that, but why only this publisher? There are so many indie comics kick-started and crowd funded that never see the light of day. So many donators are left with less than nothing. Seems like your video just states they are trying to get the book out there and read. Wider readership more likely it could complete an arc. Feels a bit too negative to me. Also title/thumb oozing with click-bait.
@@alexb4849 Hm...well the thumbnail proposes the question that the video is about so if its clickbait then theres really no way to avoid it. I'm not sure if you watched the whole video or if the information wasn't presented clearly because it is a complicated situation and explaining in a specific order was the biggest challenge. The main problem (and some might not see this as a problem) is that the patrons are sold a product that, when received, they are told they can't do specific things with it and if they do, the entirety of the supporters get punished. If that were the end of it, fine...its their patreon, they're free to do with it what they want. But the punishment is profitable to the creators and puts the comic community at risk for getting scammed by people re-selling the items for considerably more than what they bought it for when the buyer could just pay $5.00 and order it themselves. The Rags team didn't make it clear anywhere that this was a possibility and even after two months of seeing this happen, did nothing to stop it until just recently. Then they did it again and encouraged the same re-sellers who they were criticizing to buy and sell the product online
Good stuff. Still not quite sure why this comic was so hot. It really imo which no one asked but I’d like to give it, was really bad just a really bad walking dead ripoff.
Never jumped on the Rags Train Personally...thank God..Boycott RAGS BOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!
Not sure where you are wrong. You seem to have done your research.
im really only using the words of the creator as the launchpad for each point I make
@@KeyCollectorComics You went to your sources and presented them. I thought you did a great job man.
Wow thanks for outing the snakes in the grass, after watching this video RAGS is going to be just what the title says it is a rag to wipe my ass with, bunch of scammers.
Man spec buyers are a legit part of the community. I hate when people disrespect the service provided by spec buyers. If no1 can make a profit off of the comics other than the creator/artist, then no1 will be into comics, no LCSs, no eBay sellers, no garage salers, no1. Money changes hands & people go nuts about it. Stop demonizing the best economic system every created. Free market forever!
Yeah I notice that about some people in the comic community. Theyre either upset you’re doing something that can be potentially lucrative or they say it’s not about the money. Not sure what’s wrong with wanting to succeed in that way. Good point John
The thing that sucks most about all of this is the book is good. The art is good, and the creators are talented. This COULD HAVE been the next Walking Dead. But the creators are so averse to natural market forces that they're actively killing the hype before the story is even told.
My bet is this collapses before the comic book is complete and it all disappears into oblivion.
I supported them on Patreon for several months. Pre-ordered the first issue from AP as soon as it went on sale. It felt awesome to be a part of something that early on.
And they killed it. I'm out. No longer supporting on Patreon.
Just as evidence, here's my excited unboxing of the Timothy Lim variant that I was ECSTATIC to have. ruclips.net/video/Q3P-HQHjUEc/видео.html
Thats a shame man and I think people who have a realistic POV on this feel the same way you do. I have the utmost respect for creators who take the risk and are creative in getting their art into the hands of fans. I hope these guys can be more straightforward and accept that there are going to be some things that are out of your control and not make things worse by trying to control it
Total scam. Want a GOOD indie low print book? Get Ogre or Source. From Source Point Press. NOT some random print.
David Madison Have you read, ooooh, idk...ANY of their books? Because if you didn’t think Ogre 1-3 was good, or if you weren’t into Source 1 or 2, then I’m not so sure I can fully trust your opinion when it comes to tasteful and fruitful comic books. And I mean that with respect, and I do not say this out of anger. I just thought those two titles really really stuck out REGARDLESS of the CBSI, Jim, Comic Tom, or Key Collector hype. Now, if you disagree with me, for example, with Ogre...and you think Bob Salley didn’t write a great story, or the art wasn’t good, or whatever, then cool. It’s not for everyone. But to dismiss SPP’s work as “3 issue junk comics” is wrong to me, and shows me that you think one of three thoughts: 1) You legitimately did not like the idea or content within their latest books and so you are sort of shitting on them. In which case...I disagree, but cool. I do the same with most new Marvel.😂 2) You’re not buying the investment hype in these books. Look, man. Most people I talk to who like these books actually like the content OR they are looking for short term flips on a low print book (that actually came from a print press unlike a lot of Rags books) or 3) You’ve bought a previous SPP series before, saw it as a weak storied 3 issue run, and never looked in that direction again. That I also understand...because literally every Marvel title except one is about to leave my pull list this week. 😂 Anyway, mean no harm! Glad we have a community in which we can discuss, debate, agree, disagree, and even agree to disagree on something as simple as ink on a bunch of papers that are stapled together then sold to us.
“I’m not in this business for the money”
Sounds like a really dumb business model. if not interested in profit why do anything at all? Why have patreon? Why have a publishing deal with Antarctic? Why charge for the book at all?
Utter baffoonery.
The people that say they're not in it for the money over and over again...they're in it for the money
And like I said, there's nothing wrong with being successful...they are completely set up for it but they're getting in their own way. Wanting to hit the jackpot far too quickly.
Milkdawg just realized that was you. The milk dawg. Hahah.
Key Collector Comics the one and only