The term ball death came from the era of particle cover stocks. Companies were putting stuff into the covers to essentially turn them from road tires to mud tires... without actually making the cover stock material itself any stronger. So you'd buy a ball, and it would hook like mad for a while. Then the ball would get sanded or resurfaced or just wear down over time, and that extra grit added to the ball would go away, and you'd be left with the weak cover stock only, and no more of the surface grit that was doing all the real work. Some companies were worse than others. Columbia was notorious for dead particle balls. I had an AMF ball that went from monster to spare ball in about 50 games. That said, companies don't use those same methods to artificially strengthen balls anymore. When most people today complain about "ball death", they are talking about the normal process of a ball mellowing out from it's original OOB reaction. The ball didn't die, it just went from being new to being broken in. People see 30 boards of hook on day 1, and then complain about the ball being deed with in only hooks 25 board on day 30. Real ball death was 30 boards of hook on day 1, and 5 boards on day 30.
Balls can die in another way, core separations. The best ball I ever had was a Mo original, the white AMF XS. That thing was an absolute pin crusher. After a couple years of great use, I threw it and it hit the pocket like a 9 pound ball. Just a dull thump with terrible carry. I kept throwing it and it kept on just going thunk. It seriously looked like a light house ball when it hit. I asked the pro shop guy what was up and he took it from me and dropped it on the hard tile floor from just a couple feet. It didn't bounce, just went thunk and sat there. Core separation. I've never had one since but obviously it can happen.
I have my balls detoxed or sweat out 2 times a year . there are times when my ball seems to quit hooking & it has too much oil in the coverstock. I threw my highest 3 games series ever about a year ago with a 21 yr old black widow !!
Just subbed, Phil! I'm a new bowler and this kind of info is so invaluable to us newbies. I've heard so much conflicting info from random people on the internet and it's great to hear from an actual bowling ball manufacturer on what's true and what isn't!
I agree, I would say the starting point does matter to an extent. The "teeth underneath" would maybe have an effect at lane shine surface, but it would be very minimal IMO. But as you said, I could see it going either direction as well. Only way we'd know for sure is to have the bowling robot throw shots with a ball that is at lane shine with different original finished grits.
@@scstewart Well the "teeth underneath" phrase you heard is pretty vague. We are dealing with a solid porous material. The more you sand it the more of that material you expose. It isnt that there are different layers of different kinds of teeth under there.
I put my solid balls in a bucket of hot soapy water every 20 - 30 games and the oil gets wiped off. In between water soaks, I clean them with reacta-scuff. When I sand, its just by hand and very minimally. Once a year I bring them all to the proshop to de-oil and he always says there's no oil in them. Never had a dead ball, and I'm still using a 2017 solid ball every week in dozens of games in a very oil house shot. Pearls, I just clean with ball cleaner and only soak them about 3 or 4 times a year.
Phil: Why do resin balls crack wide open? Even if they are stored safely in the home they will crack and the core separate from the coverstock. Is it the lane oil that seeps down into the ball that breaks up the chemical bonds in the ball and make it fall apart? Why do they crack?
Covers are getting thinner, temperature variabilities have an effect too. I have had new unused balls crack that were sitting next to old balls. I suspect using it more actually keeps it from cracking because its not staying in a static position with gravity and the weight of the core bearing down on the cover.
I’m not Phil but I believe the reason resin balls crack like that is because they sit in one position for a long period of time. The weight block puts pressure on the same part of the ball for so long it eventually cracks
I don’t know about that really. I definitely think balls tame down over time and lose cover strength. Even a good resurfacing can’t bring some things back. I do think that cleaning and maintaining the cover makes the ball last a lot longer than people may think.
Storm recommends doing the entire steps again. Sanding the ball from 500 to 2000 then now putting the reacta gloss on it to make it as close to the OOB finish
My 1996 danger zone still hooks and can out perform most of the other companies equipment I use or seen used. I have a Brunswick Twist pink and silver white..color way. Just hit it with 500grit and a polish..... Thing is 3 years old and hits like it's fresh out the box. I've made over 1000 in my local leagues the last 2 days. I say that to say this. Take care of your investment. A drilled bowling balls depreciates more than a car off the lot.
question: if there are so many different cover stocks and ball surfaces. why is it important to shop for surface when we can just change the surface of any given ball? whats the point in companies even making surfaces then? or am i missing something?
Cover strength is more than just surface finish. It's porosity and absorption characteristics, friction coefficient and so forth. A plastic, a urethane, a solid reactive, a pearl, and everything in between are all going to behave differently at when finished at the same grit
As a pro shop guy this question is way too common, the answer is a long one, bear with me. I am a competitive bowler also, we walk around with 6-9 balls at a time bowling on some of the most difficult oil patterns out there and need to be able to move and adjust to the lane as it transitions from fresh to fried... doing that requires a few different ball reactions and some hand tricks most times... ball reaction is 70-80% cover driven so by adapting covers a manufacturer can purpose make a ball for a situation, Radical almost exclusively has an aresenal of balls out at the same time (meaning they can and do all work off of each other).... all of these things point out why companies make cover stocks and sand, now wrap your head around the fact that every final surface (out of box surface) is paired to the ball's core and cover and has a set grit to make it match best for the MOST players that they CAN. now applying this logic and that more surface starts to cause earlier roll then we surface the guys ball who throws 20 MPH with no REV rate becasue he needs the ball to roll and slow down more then the guy that throws it 17 with a high rev rate would, the second guy might even be able to go up on surface to a higher grit to delay the ball starting as early and to in fact have it store longer and the end result is a better ball for that INDIVIDUAL bowler... hope this helped and have a great day learning this awesome sport!
@@codyvangordon1822 currently I throw a MOTIV Jackal with a 5000 grit. I polish it with matched grit. So idk if I’m helping or hurting my ball’s performance… on the other hand I don’t want to be constantly shopping for new balls if all I can do is manipulate the ball I have now. I want to get a ball that can give me the same reaction, but on dryer conditions… but if all I have to do is shine it then why bother? Or is that not a good thing…
@JP Gunny in all reality, the comment above my original was very educated in the fact that covers have very many characteristics, which, as I pointed out, will behave differently for every individual bowler. You should, in my opinion, have enough bowling balls to last, whatever it is you usually bowl for length of block... so for league, whatever gets you 3 games, tournaments start to reach 6+ games, and that is ALOT of unpredictable transition. Consult your best local pro shop operator about what you have (check your fit while your there) and talk with them about any alternative balls you think fit the bill, adjust surface as needed to compliment the ball for you. I tend to find that bowlers will learn how they like the surface after experimentation (lane shined, relively fresh surface, polish, compound, etc...) and let us not forget that layout is still very important and balls are only "tunable" within a reasonable window of surface and hand position changes. There is also an element of education on the consumer end through our greatest resource for bowling ball information RUclips (the internet, in general, is amazing to learn from if you look hard enough). Look at ball reviews and throwbot videos, learn what elements there are to a layout. learn asymmetry, and the difference from symmetric ball roll. Then apply the surface changes with the thought that lower grit rolls earlier and overall more smooth, higher grit conserves energy longer and flares more down lane, causing more reaction towards the pin deck and a retention of energy in comparison to its lower grit form if all else is equal.
@@jpgunny101 the answer to your question is that you cannot legally change the surface of your ball in the same competition. Once you start bowling, you can't adjust the cover.
Don't fully agree, had a Guru Supreme which "died". Trips to the PSO to bring it back to OTB finish and such and it never hooked like it did in that 1st year of ownership. Even asked a friend with similar span and twice the rev rate as myself and it would just go straight and never pickup the friction. Even experimented with it and took it down to an Abralon 360 with no difference. I do agree we as bowlers can create death by how we treat our equipment but I also think there is more to the story.
Pearl bowling balls require the most maintenance, because they soak up oil like a sponge. You have to have it baked/resurfaced every now and then to make it perform at its best
All resin bowling balls absorb oil in order to hook the way they do. They all require maintenance. Dull solids lose their out of box surface texture faster than pearls because they are further from the median surface after bowling X number of games.
Thanks for the great info! I bowl on only house conditions on two senior leagues so, with my slower ball speed the only thing I do is clean my ball after I bowl with it and have sanded my balls to a finer grit, (4000 - 5000) so I can play them on the low oil volume that our center uses! I have had 2 balls crack on me, (Storm MatchUp, Brunswick Rhino) but I just replaced them! They were both stored inside my house with my other balls so, why they cracked, I don’t know! I will be careful on the sanding in the future! I did watch another RUclips video where they talked surface and recommended sanding new balls a little if the out of the box finish was really shiny ! Give it a dull finish! Hmm…? To me that depends on what that stock surface is and how you had it drilled! Anyway, I do have a Radical I Spy that I love to use in dryer conditions or just for a spare ball!
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The term ball death came from the era of particle cover stocks. Companies were putting stuff into the covers to essentially turn them from road tires to mud tires... without actually making the cover stock material itself any stronger. So you'd buy a ball, and it would hook like mad for a while. Then the ball would get sanded or resurfaced or just wear down over time, and that extra grit added to the ball would go away, and you'd be left with the weak cover stock only, and no more of the surface grit that was doing all the real work. Some companies were worse than others. Columbia was notorious for dead particle balls. I had an AMF ball that went from monster to spare ball in about 50 games. That said, companies don't use those same methods to artificially strengthen balls anymore. When most people today complain about "ball death", they are talking about the normal process of a ball mellowing out from it's original OOB reaction. The ball didn't die, it just went from being new to being broken in. People see 30 boards of hook on day 1, and then complain about the ball being deed with in only hooks 25 board on day 30. Real ball death was 30 boards of hook on day 1, and 5 boards on day 30.
I agree, I used an old ebonite blue wolf from 1997 in the past summer league. Hook more than any of thought it would.
What about lane shine which can happen pretty quick , quicker than we like sometimes ...
That's my preferred surface on most balls, LOL
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Balls can die in another way, core separations. The best ball I ever had was a Mo original, the white AMF XS. That thing was an absolute pin crusher. After a couple years of great use, I threw it and it hit the pocket like a 9 pound ball. Just a dull thump with terrible carry. I kept throwing it and it kept on just going thunk. It seriously looked like a light house ball when it hit. I asked the pro shop guy what was up and he took it from me and dropped it on the hard tile floor from just a couple feet. It didn't bounce, just went thunk and sat there. Core separation. I've never had one since but obviously it can happen.
I have my balls detoxed or sweat out 2 times a year . there are times when my ball seems to quit hooking & it has too much oil in the coverstock. I threw my highest 3 games series ever about a year ago with a 21 yr old black widow !!
Just subbed, Phil! I'm a new bowler and this kind of info is so invaluable to us newbies.
I've heard so much conflicting info from random people on the internet and it's great to hear from an actual bowling ball manufacturer on what's true and what isn't!
Ball death is a fact, it happens when it gets destroyed by a ball return or leaving it in the car in winter / summer causing thermal damage.
Such great advice that needs to be heard by the people who don't want to hear it.
hey phil ,so i seen some people say that a ball will go to 4700 overtime is that true?
It’s been proven with surface readers that all balls will eventually get to that surface.
I agree, I would say the starting point does matter to an extent. The "teeth underneath" would maybe have an effect at lane shine surface, but it would be very minimal IMO. But as you said, I could see it going either direction as well. Only way we'd know for sure is to have the bowling robot throw shots with a ball that is at lane shine with different original finished grits.
@@scstewart Well the "teeth underneath" phrase you heard is pretty vague. We are dealing with a solid porous material. The more you sand it the more of that material you expose. It isnt that there are different layers of different kinds of teeth under there.
I have to get my pro shop checked by my ball
I put my solid balls in a bucket of hot soapy water every 20 - 30 games and the oil gets wiped off. In between water soaks, I clean them with reacta-scuff. When I sand, its just by hand and very minimally. Once a year I bring them all to the proshop to de-oil and he always says there's no oil in them. Never had a dead ball, and I'm still using a 2017 solid ball every week in dozens of games in a very oil house shot. Pearls, I just clean with ball cleaner and only soak them about 3 or 4 times a year.
Phil:
Why do resin balls crack wide open? Even if they are stored safely in the home they will crack and the core separate from the coverstock.
Is it the lane oil that seeps down into the ball that breaks up the chemical bonds in the ball and make it fall apart?
Why do they crack?
I de-oil mine at the end of every season, keep them indoors and still occasionally have a cracked ball when league starts again.
Covers are getting thinner, temperature variabilities have an effect too. I have had new unused balls crack that were sitting next to old balls. I suspect using it more actually keeps it from cracking because its not staying in a static position with gravity and the weight of the core bearing down on the cover.
@@machinethesun9243 I've read that too but I tend to randomly rotate them every so often when I walk by them.
ruclips.net/video/pnN7HvKKGqE/видео.html
This video will explain everything.
I’m not Phil but I believe the reason resin balls crack like that is because they sit in one position for a long period of time. The weight block puts pressure on the same part of the ball for so long it eventually cracks
I don’t know about that really. I definitely think balls tame down over time and lose cover strength. Even a good resurfacing can’t bring some things back. I do think that cleaning and maintaining the cover makes the ball last a lot longer than people may think.
Can you maintain a pearl ball with only a polish every 30-60 games or so?
Storm recommends doing the entire steps again. Sanding the ball from 500 to 2000 then now putting the reacta gloss on it to make it as close to the OOB finish
My 1996 danger zone still hooks and can out perform most of the other companies equipment I use or seen used. I have a Brunswick Twist pink and silver white..color way. Just hit it with 500grit and a polish..... Thing is 3 years old and hits like it's fresh out the box. I've made over 1000 in my local leagues the last 2 days. I say that to say this. Take care of your investment. A drilled bowling balls depreciates more than a car off the lot.
question: if there are so many different cover stocks and ball surfaces. why is it important to shop for surface when we can just change the surface of any given ball? whats the point in companies even making surfaces then? or am i missing something?
Cover strength is more than just surface finish. It's porosity and absorption characteristics, friction coefficient and so forth. A plastic, a urethane, a solid reactive, a pearl, and everything in between are all going to behave differently at when finished at the same grit
As a pro shop guy this question is way too common, the answer is a long one, bear with me. I am a competitive bowler also, we walk around with 6-9 balls at a time bowling on some of the most difficult oil patterns out there and need to be able to move and adjust to the lane as it transitions from fresh to fried... doing that requires a few different ball reactions and some hand tricks most times... ball reaction is 70-80% cover driven so by adapting covers a manufacturer can purpose make a ball for a situation, Radical almost exclusively has an aresenal of balls out at the same time (meaning they can and do all work off of each other).... all of these things point out why companies make cover stocks and sand, now wrap your head around the fact that every final surface (out of box surface) is paired to the ball's core and cover and has a set grit to make it match best for the MOST players that they CAN. now applying this logic and that more surface starts to cause earlier roll then we surface the guys ball who throws 20 MPH with no REV rate becasue he needs the ball to roll and slow down more then the guy that throws it 17 with a high rev rate would, the second guy might even be able to go up on surface to a higher grit to delay the ball starting as early and to in fact have it store longer and the end result is a better ball for that INDIVIDUAL bowler... hope this helped and have a great day learning this awesome sport!
@@codyvangordon1822 currently I throw a MOTIV Jackal with a 5000 grit. I polish it with matched grit. So idk if I’m helping or hurting my ball’s performance… on the other hand I don’t want to be constantly shopping for new balls if all I can do is manipulate the ball I have now. I want to get a ball that can give me the same reaction, but on dryer conditions… but if all I have to do is shine it then why bother? Or is that not a good thing…
@JP Gunny in all reality, the comment above my original was very educated in the fact that covers have very many characteristics, which, as I pointed out, will behave differently for every individual bowler. You should, in my opinion, have enough bowling balls to last, whatever it is you usually bowl for length of block... so for league, whatever gets you 3 games, tournaments start to reach 6+ games, and that is ALOT of unpredictable transition. Consult your best local pro shop operator about what you have (check your fit while your there) and talk with them about any alternative balls you think fit the bill, adjust surface as needed to compliment the ball for you. I tend to find that bowlers will learn how they like the surface after experimentation (lane shined, relively fresh surface, polish, compound, etc...) and let us not forget that layout is still very important and balls are only "tunable" within a reasonable window of surface and hand position changes. There is also an element of education on the consumer end through our greatest resource for bowling ball information RUclips (the internet, in general, is amazing to learn from if you look hard enough). Look at ball reviews and throwbot videos, learn what elements there are to a layout. learn asymmetry, and the difference from symmetric ball roll. Then apply the surface changes with the thought that lower grit rolls earlier and overall more smooth, higher grit conserves energy longer and flares more down lane, causing more reaction towards the pin deck and a retention of energy in comparison to its lower grit form if all else is equal.
@@jpgunny101 the answer to your question is that you cannot legally change the surface of your ball in the same competition. Once you start bowling, you can't adjust the cover.
Don't fully agree, had a Guru Supreme which "died". Trips to the PSO to bring it back to OTB finish and such and it never hooked like it did in that 1st year of ownership. Even asked a friend with similar span and twice the rev rate as myself and it would just go straight and never pickup the friction. Even experimented with it and took it down to an Abralon 360 with no difference.
I do agree we as bowlers can create death by how we treat our equipment but I also think there is more to the story.
Pearl bowling balls require the most maintenance, because they soak up oil like a sponge. You have to have it baked/resurfaced every now and then to make it perform at its best
Solid resins are more porous and require more upkeep and surface prep.
@@RadicalBowling My first ball was a pearl reactive and even cleaning after every use and wiping down after every shot I had to have it baked
All resin bowling balls absorb oil in order to hook the way they do. They all require maintenance. Dull solids lose their out of box surface texture faster than pearls because they are further from the median surface after bowling X number of games.
Im using some old radicals, like intel pearl, squatch, squatch solid and counter attack solid to average above 200 on sport shots.
"old" -- i still toss a slant pearl once in a while. wish they could bring back that booster core & the booster HD core.
Thanks for the great info! I bowl on only house conditions on two senior leagues so, with my slower ball speed the only thing I do is clean my ball after I bowl with it and have sanded my balls to a finer grit, (4000 - 5000) so I can play them on the low oil volume that our center uses! I have had 2 balls crack on me, (Storm MatchUp, Brunswick Rhino) but I just replaced them! They were both stored inside my house with my other balls so, why they cracked, I don’t know! I will be careful on the sanding in the future! I did watch another RUclips video where they talked surface and recommended sanding new balls a little if the out of the box finish was really shiny ! Give it a dull finish! Hmm…? To me that depends on what that stock surface is and how you had it drilled! Anyway, I do have a Radical I Spy that I love to use in dryer conditions or just for a spare ball!
store your balls in the plastic bag they came in, supposedly that keeps them from cracking
Cool video talk tech bowling ball radical