The church didn't help me in a financial way after hurricane Ida. I was living in my car with my dog while studying with them. They didn't offer me anything but prayers which I appreciated at the time. My friends helped me although they were struggling too. Then with help of God I was able to find an apartment five months after living in my car. I wasn't baptized until two weeks after I moved in. I've learned more about my church from you all than I've learned from my church in about three years being a latter day saint.
@@fcbaker From what I have heard the cult gives less than 2% to help the poor and needy , the rest goes to build the kingdom or corporation here on earth, I’m sure Jesus is impressed with all the land there buying ,
55 yeeesss! My dad literally threatened that if one of his 7 children married a black person, he would kill the black person. At age 15 or 16, my dad was telling me the same again, and I asked, "If you find out you have "black" blood in you, would you kill yourself."He had an uncomfortable pause and said, "Yes.'" As far as I recall, he never said much about blacks after day in about 1969.
I still have a relative who joined the church in the 60s and still emphatically believes racism is doctrinal and that all dark-skinned people are off-limits. He borrowed a copy of Mormonism and the N--o and read it to me, in the 80s, well after the doctrine was removed. It’s really, really bad, really clearly racist, and was sold at Deseret Books. Luckily he doesn’t know my husband is 2% black, per a genetic testing service. 😂. Maybe I should get the racist relative a test kit.
@@amygreen758 it’s a product of church gaslighting. Like the novel 1984. If they didn’t personally experience it, then the church must be telling the truth. And if they did experience it, they try to make themselves misremember it in accordance with the historical revisions. I have an annoyingly good memory, which is yet another reason I made a bad Mormon. Because, yes, we were taught we could become gods. And yes, we were taught black people were less righteous in the preexistance. And yes, we were taught interracial marriage was a sin.
I'm sorry to all cult survivors but immensely grateful for those who are willing to look into their "sacred texts" and /or "faith" to help the rest of us deconstruct
We, formerly called Lamanites (lol), were TAUGHT that our skin was blackened and our objective was to lighten ourselves. And we freakin’ believed it! Omg! Then unceremoniously, Oaks informed us in a BYU speech, to forget about it; never mind it. I was perplexed for a minute- having the rug pulled out from my “identity” was shocking. Now I realize it was a load of sh@“& all along!
Oh come on!!!! We’ve been taught for years and years their skin was turned dark as a curse and so the nephites and laminites wouldn’t intermingle. If it was just skins - they could take them off. This is so ridiculous.
I went to the original video to comment that, but you have to agree to not start contention or leave “anti” comments before it will let you comment on the video.
What blows my mind about this the most is just how people’s believe this stuff and then just explain away the inconsistencies by saying “well since we have a direct connection through the prophet that we can never be wrong because by having the direct connection we can change doctrine at will”. Just insane.
Yes! When Native American kids were taken into white Mormon homes! And started spending a lot less time walking or working outdoors. It couldn’t have had anything to do with lessened sun exposure, could it? 🤣
Every picture in primary growing up had the Nephites and Lamanites with white and dark skin people. So I was being taught one was white and one was black. So now because of the social issues in the country, the church is scrambling to make it right. But isn't the BofM the true words of God through his prophets?(lol)
There are two main varieties of “faithful” takes on controversial church matters: the Jim Bennett/ Patrick Mason variety who sincerely hold faith while being open to acknowledging errors, and then you have those who refuse to say take any critical position whatsoever. They’re often willing to distort the truth in order to present a faithful presentation, and they are also those who avoid direct discussion because those arguments are easily refuted. Their goal isn’t to pursue truth, but to create footholds for continued belief in tradition. Wait, doesn’t the BOM say something about false traditions from our fathers?
Skin is not a garment. Just ask Brigham Young. He told those early black elders that they could no longer hold the priesthood. All the prophets maintained that position until Kimble. And that was only because people with African blood were entering the Temples in South America. What a dilemma. I always thought it was odd that God only loved those with white delightsome skin.
They kept pestering me to look up my genealogy until I researched it and found that Hyrum Smith John Smith's nephew was one of my ancestors. My Great Great Grandfather owned my Great Great Grandmother and they had three children. I can tell by their body language that they're not liking that. Me I thought I was the first in my line to be baptized a latter day saint. I have more than 200+ ancestors who held important posts.
I have a question. If this was true because DNA don't lie wouldn't that mean everyone that was born after that marriage be damned or do they take exception. Another Latter Day Saint in my church is my distant cousin when we first found out we were happy about it. She went home and told her husband now I get the impression that she is not wanting to share that news with anyone. I'm of mixed racial background she's white with blonde hair and blue eyes. My oldest daughter has thick long red hair and green eyes.
Happy belated bday John! I’m Samoan And this makes me angry that they’re trying to change it and cover their tracks. I remember vividly growing up learning In primary, God cursed the Laminates by turning their skin to black. And when I would question it as a child.. I was told Polynesians are blessed people and it doesn’t apply to us. Even At the age of 8 yrs old, it made no sense to me.
I agree with most of the points you guys are making. I've done my own presentation on this issue. I do want to correct Nemo and push back on one point. Nemo can't seem to understand why Jasmin would make a middle eastern appeal or what connection the Lamanites would have regarding the law of Moses, or the curse being symbolic in the Assyrian example. I just want to point out that the origin of the nephites and lamanites according to the book of mormon text, are middle eastern. They are from Jerusalem. Fictionally anyway. So therefore the lamanites tattooing themselves would be in violation of the law of Moses. Their rebellion agaisnt God could include deliberately violating the law of Moses on purpose and that would have been part of their cultural milieu. Also the Assyrian King wishing skin of blackness to come upon the people he is cursing could be a part of the cultural milieu of break off tribes that make it from the middle east into the Americas. It would be better to understand how middle easterners viewed such language in their cultural context to defeat Jasmin's point. I say this becuase I've seen this kind of apologetic reasoning come up for several years now where if the middle easterners are interpreting this manner of language symbolically then the nephites would also. Other than that I agree with most of the points that you guys make and Jasmin Rappleye really is just spitballing bad theories to what is obviously a racist 19th century understanding of First nations people and the moundbuilder myth. Cheers!
"Actually the Latter Day Saint god has never been a racist --- it was always just joseph smith, brigham young and the mormon pioneers." thanks for clearing that up >>>>jasmine
You guys are also forgetting another very obvious problem with these forms of apologetics. They rely on abusing the English words used to describe these racist passages. The book has been translated in over 90 languages, and most of those languages have VERY distinct forms of the word used for human skin and animal skin. Example - German: Haut = human skin, Tierhaut = animal skin If the apologetics were valid it would create a greater issue in that it implies that for the majority of those translations of the BoM, both the translators and the church authorities approving them did not work under divine inspiration or authority. The apologetics only appeal to English-speaking members. Ask them to try make the same excuses in German, French, Spanish, etc. Smith authored a reference to a "Dark skin curse" or "Curse of Ham" in every single canonised LDS book he "translated". BoM, Moses, Abraham, D&C, even his brief description of his alleged translation of the Kinderhook plates references Ham's lineage. He was fully behind the idea of dark skin as a mark of a curse.
This one was excellent. John was quiet most of the time. It felt like the passing of the torch to the next generation… but I’m not implying anything John, please carry on with this fantastic work!
Is she saying God cursed them with bad fashion? Is bad fashion generic? “You and all your descendants will dress so badly that no stylish person will ever want to mate with you.” Thus sayeth the lord!
The immediate question one has to ask if the real interpretation is not about skin color, is why the church top to bottom believed the skin color reading and was virulently racist because of it. if anything, it would be even more damning of the Mormon church, if it were the clothing argument.
LDS got the call that Skin of Blackness was no longer kosher in 1978. That must have been some call back then. Now, if Moroni can show the world what happened to the Golden Plates.
Oh, of course, skin of blackness refers to the dark animal skins the Lamanites wore, that all makes sense now. Hence why the church instigated the priesthood and temple ban for anyone who wore fur!!!!
"[T]he Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them". According to the Rappleyes, having a "skin of blackness" means the same thing as being "in spiritual darkness". According to 2 Nephi 5:21, who "caused" the Lamanites to be in spiritual darkness? It was the Lord. Why did the Lord do that? So that the Lamanites would not be "enticing" (i.e. attractive) to the Nephites. Apparently, the Lord did not want there to ever be any reconciliation between members of Lehi's now divided family. Uncles, aunts, nephews, nieces, cousins (first, second, third, fourth and everything in between) and even grandchildren were supposed to be divided permanently into two very separate warring tribes. Thanks, Lord, for "causing" that. I guess the Lord preferred to have exciting wars, battles and conflicts across multiple generations for a thousand years. Heaven forbid that the Nephites feel any love and attraction toward any of their Lamanite brothers, sisters, cousins, etc. and heaven forbid that many of the offspring of Laman and Lemuel find out that many of their very close relatives are great people (and vice-versa). Even taking the Rappleyes' apologetic hypothetical at face value, the only take-away lesson is that the Book of Mormon "Lord" still turns out to be a colossal jerk.
Jasmyn is very cleverly pretending to elucidate when what she is actually doing is muddying the waters, with the intention that the actual meaning (ie skin colour) will appear as uncertain as her other implausible notions.
@Nemo For the changes that you're looking for, there's a way around that. If the Mormon website had anything connected with the search engines that existed at the time when the post that is missing was originally made, you can go back to a website which applies the way back machine and look for that page, the only issue is that you would have to remember within a time frame at the very least, when that post was put there. So for instance, if you wanted to go to the first day that the post was made, you're going to have to remember obviously the date it was put on the website, the good news is though, if you're still within a respective time frame of when they first made that post before taking it down, you'll still be able to see it.
This was a great, I really learned a lot. Next please do an episode on their neck and heart problems that I’m always hearing about. I wonder if the lamanites/ nephites ever learned special exercises or stretches to help with their “stiff necks” and “hard hearts”? Because I would assume if skin really means skin and nothing else then stiff neck means stiff neck. And I hate when I get a stiff neck (usually from sleeping on it wrong)
1:00:00 another thing to note is that there is indeed significance to the potential meanings of a Hebrew word from the Bible but this significance does not inherently correlate to the BOM considering we have NO IDEA what Reformed Egyptian is hence what meanings can be derived from the usage of a particular word.
Never Mormon here. My parents weren’t racist, nor was my neighborhood, but I remember hearing the lie as “the Hamite curse “ and his lineage becoming black for “looking upon Noah’s nakedness “ when he (Noah) was drunk from wine.
Trying to mislead people by saying the skin of blackness means tattooes, animal fur, paint or whatever does not change the fact that you are saying some persons are cursed because of what somebody else did. Put it in whatever package you like but it still stinks.
I have hearing loss. It is hard for me to read subtitles that tend to be overlap. What did Gerado mean when he said Jasmine misread or misquote the part (3 Nephi) that she left out? 58:39
The scripture did not just mention the sons and daughters, but also the parents. It’s says the parents became fair. So Jasmine’s argument doesn’t really make sense, because if it were referring to tattoos, the parents would not have been able to become fair. Because tattoos were not removable at the time.
Sorry, I might've missed some thing, but how do we know the church is paying them? (Besides the brilliant content that Alyssa Grenfeld covered on the fact that they essentially are paying all Mormon and Mormon influencers because of ad words). Do we know that she is actually a paid apologist for the church?
Black skins as clothing is laughable. You know what would happen if a people decided not to follow god? The first thing they’d do (and you see it in Mormon garment use as well) is stop wearing them.
42:14 I like how even while proposing a ridiculous theory that denies that skin means skin, the illustrations shown still include fairly dark looking natives lmao
God cursed the descendants of Cain and the Lamanites in the BoM ...and why was it only the descendants of Black Africans that couldn't hold the priesthood until it was changed. Why weren't the descendants of the Lamanites denied the priesthood too as their descendants were cursed with a dark skin?
It leads me to say that everyone in the world was black at one point. Only black people can make any color person. Thus, the variations in the color of black people. Especially since we know Jesus was black.
Lehi and his plp, or even Jesus, were actually ashkenazi jews only? or Joseph Smith didn't know how the other jews, the non white presenting jews, look like? ... anyhow I was for so long in denial when active in the LDS church, and I even avoided reading the book of mormon because it made me feel less loved for being dark.
Silliness: if we’re talking about events that occurred 600 years BC, of course everyone would be seeking beasts of prey in the wilderness! Where else would people obtain food: Lehi Food Mart or the kitchen fridge?
The apologist explanations remind me of the “dog ate my homework” type of explanations. The Mormon church is working overtime to twist out of inconsistencies and offensive teachings of the past. In this case the new explanation about black skin now means that the churches acting out of racism has been unjustified because the Book of Mormon was misinterpreted?
I don't think we should hold it against Kwaku for not being an expert on the curses. If his experience was like an of ours it was hidden from him by members until it couldn't be. Then like most black Mormons the Curse rhetoric is worded the same for all curses. For example, the parts about Black skin, typically the racism recorded about that that is about black people not indigenous people outside of the BOM. But in typical Mormon racism black people are the ones who's seed is cursed and if mixed with white people s blood the seed is cursed. In too many areas the Curses are conflated and mean the same things.
Everyone hit like!! Happy Birthday John🎈
Happy birthday Dr. D!
I am loving this series of discussions. The truth will set many people free from the Church. so thank you for that.
Nemo has been "unleashed!" to quote Wendy Nelson 😂
The church didn't help me in a financial way after hurricane Ida. I was living in my car with my dog while studying with them. They didn't offer me anything but prayers which I appreciated at the time. My friends helped me although they were struggling too. Then with help of God I was able to find an apartment five months after living in my car. I wasn't baptized until two weeks after I moved in. I've learned more about my church from you all than I've learned from my church in about three years being a latter day saint.
Hey , The Mormon church just spent another $289 million across 8 states on farmland , they’re probably a little tied up to help much right now !
They could help you or buy some stocks and land. I mean, what do you think God wants? Does he want stocks and land?
Not that it's good enough either way. But being new and not baptised at the time they might have thought no tithing or not enough yet
@@fcbaker From what I have heard the cult gives less than 2% to help the poor and needy , the rest goes to build the kingdom or corporation here on earth, I’m sure Jesus is impressed with all the land there buying ,
@@isaiah-4310plus the HUGE amount of farm land in Australia
Happy bday John! I think you’re intelligent, caring, and funny too! Thank you for all you do!
Happy birthday, John! Another home run episode!
55 yeeesss!
My dad literally threatened that if one of his 7 children married a black person, he would kill the black person. At age 15 or 16, my dad was telling me the same again, and I asked, "If you find out you have "black" blood in you, would you kill yourself."He had an uncomfortable pause and said, "Yes.'" As far as I recall, he never said much about blacks after day in about 1969.
I still have a relative who joined the church in the 60s and still emphatically believes racism is doctrinal and that all dark-skinned people are off-limits. He borrowed a copy of Mormonism and the N--o and read it to me, in the 80s, well after the doctrine was removed. It’s really, really bad, really clearly racist, and was sold at Deseret Books. Luckily he doesn’t know my husband is 2% black, per a genetic testing service. 😂. Maybe I should get the racist relative a test kit.
It really bothers me when someone like Jasmine who is half my age, is telling us what we were or should have been learning in Sunday School.
@@amygreen758 it’s a product of church gaslighting. Like the novel 1984. If they didn’t personally experience it, then the church must be telling the truth. And if they did experience it, they try to make themselves misremember it in accordance with the historical revisions. I have an annoyingly good memory, which is yet another reason I made a bad Mormon. Because, yes, we were taught we could become gods. And yes, we were taught black people were less righteous in the preexistance. And yes, we were taught interracial marriage was a sin.
Actually the Latter Day Saint god has never been a racist ---- it was always just joseph, brigham and the early mormon leaders.
I'm sorry to all cult survivors but immensely grateful for those who are willing to look into their "sacred texts" and /or "faith" to help the rest of us deconstruct
We, formerly called Lamanites (lol), were TAUGHT that our skin was blackened and our objective was to lighten ourselves. And we freakin’ believed it! Omg!
Then unceremoniously, Oaks informed us in a BYU speech, to forget about it; never mind it. I was perplexed for a minute- having the rug pulled out from my “identity” was shocking. Now I realize it was a load of sh@“& all along!
Yes, how stupid does Jasmin Rappeleye think people are???
Oh come on!!!! We’ve been taught for years and years their skin was turned dark as a curse and so the nephites and laminites wouldn’t intermingle. If it was just skins - they could take them off. This is so ridiculous.
I went to the original video to comment that, but you have to agree to not start contention or leave “anti” comments before it will let you comment on the video.
What blows my mind about this the most is just how people’s believe this stuff and then just explain away the inconsistencies by saying “well since we have a direct connection through the prophet that we can never be wrong because by having the direct connection we can change doctrine at will”. Just insane.
I can't believe I'm caught up. I've slowly been working my way thru this series since last summer. I look forward to the next one!
Happy birthday Dr.Dehlin 🎉
Happy Birthday John. I fondly remember my 55th birthday as a milestone in life.
Every group of people the church calls lamanites has dark skin. Spencer W Kimball even told us the lamanites they were becoming lighter.
Yes! When Native American kids were taken into white Mormon homes! And started spending a lot less time walking or working outdoors. It couldn’t have had anything to do with lessened sun exposure, could it? 🤣
Every picture in primary growing up had the Nephites and Lamanites with white and dark skin people. So I was being taught one was white and one was black. So now because of the social issues in the country, the church is scrambling to make it right. But isn't the BofM the true words of God through his prophets?(lol)
I wish more neoapologists would come on Mormon Stories to have a polite and insightful discussion with John Dehlin.
Only empathetic ones like Jim Bennett and Patrick Mason can come across as sympathetic though
Bring it
Many have been more than willing and John has declined to have them on.
There are two main varieties of “faithful” takes on controversial church matters: the Jim Bennett/ Patrick Mason variety who sincerely hold faith while being open to acknowledging errors, and then you have those who refuse to say take any critical position whatsoever. They’re often willing to distort the truth in order to present a faithful presentation, and they are also those who avoid direct discussion because those arguments are easily refuted. Their goal isn’t to pursue truth, but to create footholds for continued belief in tradition.
Wait, doesn’t the BOM say something about false traditions from our fathers?
@aBrewster29 well said, but to much faith in the lds belief system requires delusion to make it work.
Skin is not a garment. Just ask Brigham Young. He told those early black elders that they could no longer hold the priesthood. All the prophets maintained that position until Kimble. And that was only because people with African blood were entering the Temples in South America. What a dilemma. I always thought it was odd that God only loved those with white delightsome skin.
Thank you for such clarity
Glad it was helpful!
Considering that we now know that Jesus was not white, does this mean that in earlier days, he would not be given the priesthood?
They kept pestering me to look up my genealogy until I researched it and found that Hyrum Smith John Smith's nephew was one of my ancestors. My Great Great Grandfather owned my Great Great Grandmother and they had three children. I can tell by their body language that they're not liking that. Me I thought I was the first in my line to be baptized a latter day saint. I have more than 200+ ancestors who held important posts.
I have a question. If this was true because DNA don't lie wouldn't that mean everyone that was born after that marriage be damned or do they take exception. Another Latter Day Saint in my church is my distant cousin when we first found out we were happy about it. She went home and told her husband now I get the impression that she is not wanting to share that news with anyone. I'm of mixed racial background she's white with blonde hair and blue eyes. My oldest daughter has thick long red hair and green eyes.
Happy belated bday John! I’m Samoan And this makes me angry that they’re trying to change it and cover their tracks. I remember vividly growing up learning In primary, God cursed the Laminates by turning their skin to black. And when I would question it as a child.. I was told Polynesians are blessed people and it doesn’t apply to us. Even At the age of 8 yrs old, it made no sense to me.
I agree with most of the points you guys are making. I've done my own presentation on this issue. I do want to correct Nemo and push back on one point. Nemo can't seem to understand why Jasmin would make a middle eastern appeal or what connection the Lamanites would have regarding the law of Moses, or the curse being symbolic in the Assyrian example. I just want to point out that the origin of the nephites and lamanites according to the book of mormon text, are middle eastern. They are from Jerusalem. Fictionally anyway. So therefore the lamanites tattooing themselves would be in violation of the law of Moses. Their rebellion agaisnt God could include deliberately violating the law of Moses on purpose and that would have been part of their cultural milieu. Also the Assyrian King wishing skin of blackness to come upon the people he is cursing could be a part of the cultural milieu of break off tribes that make it from the middle east into the Americas. It would be better to understand how middle easterners viewed such language in their cultural context to defeat Jasmin's point. I say this becuase I've seen this kind of apologetic reasoning come up for several years now where if the middle easterners are interpreting this manner of language symbolically then the nephites would also.
Other than that I agree with most of the points that you guys make and Jasmin Rappleye really is just spitballing bad theories to what is obviously a racist 19th century understanding of First nations people and the moundbuilder myth. Cheers!
Happy Birthday John! 🎉
Great show
"Actually the Latter Day Saint god has never been a racist --- it was always just joseph smith, brigham young and the mormon pioneers." thanks for clearing that up >>>>jasmine
You guys are also forgetting another very obvious problem with these forms of apologetics. They rely on abusing the English words used to describe these racist passages.
The book has been translated in over 90 languages, and most of those languages have VERY distinct forms of the word used for human skin and animal skin.
Example - German: Haut = human skin, Tierhaut = animal skin
If the apologetics were valid it would create a greater issue in that it implies that for the majority of those translations of the BoM, both the translators and the church authorities approving them did not work under divine inspiration or authority. The apologetics only appeal to English-speaking members.
Ask them to try make the same excuses in German, French, Spanish, etc.
Smith authored a reference to a "Dark skin curse" or "Curse of Ham" in every single canonised LDS book he "translated". BoM, Moses, Abraham, D&C, even his brief description of his alleged translation of the Kinderhook plates references Ham's lineage. He was fully behind the idea of dark skin as a mark of a curse.
Hey John, Happy B-Day and I served as a missionary in Katy, TX ward in 1988. You were probably a teen getting ready to go on a mission then.
So to Jasmine Skin is Skin if it is white. But it's not skin if it is Black or Dark or Red.
This one was excellent. John was quiet most of the time. It felt like the passing of the torch to the next generation… but I’m not implying anything John, please carry on with this fantastic work!
Black skin is very beautiful and they are chosen ones
“Rappleye’s Believe It or Not”
Is she saying God cursed them with bad fashion? Is bad fashion generic? “You and all your descendants will dress so badly that no stylish person will ever want to mate with you.” Thus sayeth the lord!
Thx b 2 God.
The immediate question one has to ask if the real interpretation is not about skin color, is why the church top to bottom believed the skin color reading and was virulently racist because of it. if anything, it would be even more damning of the Mormon church, if it were the clothing argument.
How embarrassing for the Mormon church. 😬
LDS got the call that Skin of Blackness was no longer kosher in 1978. That must have been some call back then. Now, if Moroni can show the world what happened to the Golden Plates.
23:24 I am bilingual and in Spanish Alma 3:5-6 is quite clear the scriptures are referring to the color of the skin
Happy Birthday, John!!! 😀
Oh, of course, skin of blackness refers to the dark animal skins the Lamanites wore, that all makes sense now. Hence why the church instigated the priesthood and temple ban for anyone who wore fur!!!!
Happy birthday, Dr. Dehlin!
"[T]he Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them". According to the Rappleyes, having a "skin of blackness" means the same thing as being "in spiritual darkness". According to 2 Nephi 5:21, who "caused" the Lamanites to be in spiritual darkness? It was the Lord. Why did the Lord do that? So that the Lamanites would not be "enticing" (i.e. attractive) to the Nephites. Apparently, the Lord did not want there to ever be any reconciliation between members of Lehi's now divided family. Uncles, aunts, nephews, nieces, cousins (first, second, third, fourth and everything in between) and even grandchildren were supposed to be divided permanently into two very separate warring tribes. Thanks, Lord, for "causing" that.
I guess the Lord preferred to have exciting wars, battles and conflicts across multiple generations for a thousand years. Heaven forbid that the Nephites feel any love and attraction toward any of their Lamanite brothers, sisters, cousins, etc. and heaven forbid that many of the offspring of Laman and Lemuel find out that many of their very close relatives are great people (and vice-versa). Even taking the Rappleyes' apologetic hypothetical at face value, the only take-away lesson is that the Book of Mormon "Lord" still turns out to be a colossal jerk.
HAPPY MEGA LATE BIRTHDAY!!! lol! I love the content!
What I don't get is how can you this video have 4,000 views Plus and have less than 300 likes? That's crazy!
Happy Belated Birthday young man! Welcome to 55!
This is giving a new meaning to "His Dark Materials" 🧥😅
Happy Birthday John! I just turned 56!
Jasmyn is very cleverly pretending to elucidate when what she is actually doing is muddying the waters, with the intention that the actual meaning (ie skin colour) will appear as uncertain as her other implausible notions.
@Nemo For the changes that you're looking for, there's a way around that. If the Mormon website had anything connected with the search engines that existed at the time when the post that is missing was originally made, you can go back to a website which applies the way back machine and look for that page, the only issue is that you would have to remember within a time frame at the very least, when that post was put there. So for instance, if you wanted to go to the first day that the post was made, you're going to have to remember obviously the date it was put on the website, the good news is though, if you're still within a respective time frame of when they first made that post before taking it down, you'll still be able to see it.
Church growth in Africa is just a miracle !!
This was a great, I really learned a lot. Next please do an episode on their neck and heart problems that I’m always hearing about. I wonder if the lamanites/ nephites ever learned special exercises or stretches to help with their “stiff necks” and “hard hearts”? Because I would assume if skin really means skin and nothing else then stiff neck means stiff neck. And I hate when I get a stiff neck (usually from sleeping on it wrong)
Tale of two churches. Not the same teachings and doctrine of the church I grew up in 70s-80s
Agreed! And the missionaries that talk to can't understand why I'm so skeptical!!!
1:00:00 another thing to note is that there is indeed significance to the potential meanings of a Hebrew word from the Bible but this significance does not inherently correlate to the BOM considering we have NO IDEA what Reformed Egyptian is hence what meanings can be derived from the usage of a particular word.
Never Mormon here. My parents weren’t racist, nor was my neighborhood, but I remember hearing the lie as “the Hamite curse “ and his lineage becoming black for “looking upon Noah’s nakedness “ when he (Noah) was drunk from wine.
Happy Birthday!
Trying to mislead people by saying the skin of blackness means tattooes, animal fur, paint or whatever does not change the fact that you are saying some persons are cursed because of what somebody else did. Put it in whatever package you like but it still stinks.
Thank you for discussing this subject. 🪶
Happy Birthday John!
What about the paintings in Ensign, Liahona, church buildings, manuals etc -why are Lamanites having darker skin!
What’s up with the Second Class Saints series? There hasn’t been a new episode in three weeks and the playlist is gone?
Happy Birthday John !
There is also the account of Zelph the “white Lamanite” who was a warrior under the prophet Onandagus.
I understand that the LDS has "changed" some of the wording in their scriptures. Where can I get a legit copy of the original text? Is that available?
I have hearing loss. It is hard for me to read subtitles that tend to be overlap. What did Gerado mean when he said Jasmine misread or misquote the part (3 Nephi) that she left out? 58:39
The scripture did not just mention the sons and daughters, but also the parents. It’s says the parents became fair. So Jasmine’s argument doesn’t really make sense, because if it were referring to tattoos, the parents would not have been able to become fair. Because tattoos were not removable at the time.
@@AprilFriday-de6vm Thank you!
LDS leaders use these apologists so they can maintain plausible deniability.
Happy birthday John
I hit Double Nickels as well on the 6th!
Sorry, I might've missed some thing, but how do we know the church is paying them? (Besides the brilliant content that Alyssa Grenfeld covered on the fact that they essentially are paying all Mormon and Mormon influencers because of ad words). Do we know that she is actually a paid apologist for the church?
Yes
Happy Birthday!!
I feel offended that John referred to Cadbury as “waxy” 😢
It’s true, that’s heresy 😂. He should be excommunicated from the chocolate aficionados of America. (J/K, John!)
He may need some educating on the finer points of Chocolate 🍫 All in favor....
Does this mean Mike is no longer part of the series? Does anyone know?
So is Joseph Smith saying that God is racist?
Black skins as clothing is laughable. You know what would happen if a people decided not to follow god? The first thing they’d do (and you see it in Mormon garment use as well) is stop wearing them.
Well happy birthday John!
Nemo just did it I going back to church 1:23:53
John said she doesn’t care. 25:57
Good listen.
Yes
42:14 I like how even while proposing a ridiculous theory that denies that skin means skin, the illustrations shown still include fairly dark looking natives lmao
God cursed the descendants of Cain and the Lamanites in the BoM ...and why was it only the descendants of Black Africans that couldn't hold the priesthood until it was changed. Why weren't the descendants of the Lamanites denied the priesthood too as their descendants were cursed with a dark skin?
Oh my! Are you a libra? No wonder why I like you so much!❤
How could animal skin ever be white?
When I saw the thumbnail, I thought you were going to have Jasmine on.
It leads me to say that everyone in the world was black at one point. Only black people can make any color person. Thus, the variations in the color of black people. Especially since we know Jesus was black.
Happy belated birthday!
Jasmine just dedicated herself to gaslighting. She even contradicts herself often.
Oh I don't like Jasmine's style. She is flawed
She is just yet another brainwashed Mormon.
The description of lamanites reminds me of the bad kids in Lord of the Flies
A very happy birthday.
Lehi and his plp, or even Jesus, were actually ashkenazi jews only? or Joseph Smith didn't know how the other jews, the non white presenting jews, look like? ... anyhow I was for so long in denial when active in the LDS church, and I even avoided reading the book of mormon because it made me feel less loved for being dark.
18:40 I'm with Nemo. As part of this tribe, we're a bit too much at times 😅
It’s just embarrassing that these people are changing what I was taught as the actual basis for what and who the Book of Mormon claims to be about
35:54 Why couldn't a saint marry one non-saint, why would it require polygamy?
Why is jasmine ALWAYS gaslighting?
Sorry, misspelled Lamanite
Silliness: if we’re talking about events that occurred 600 years BC, of course everyone would be seeking beasts of prey in the wilderness! Where else would people obtain food: Lehi Food Mart or the kitchen fridge?
The apologist explanations remind me of the “dog ate my homework” type of explanations. The Mormon church is working overtime to twist out of inconsistencies and offensive teachings of the past. In this case the new explanation about black skin now means that the churches acting out of racism has been unjustified because the Book of Mormon was misinterpreted?
OK....I have a comment on this episode. Isn't Jasmin actually a Lamenite?
Can we suggest Jasmine for a Guinness world record in mental gymnastics? 😂
Nemo is my new favorite british comedian , funnier than eddie izzard...
Sometimes they talk in riddles. So u don’t know what it means. I Guess do u need to study.
At the 1:10 mark ... what?! Zombies?
I don't think we should hold it against Kwaku for not being an expert on the curses. If his experience was like an of ours it was hidden from him by members until it couldn't be. Then like most black Mormons the Curse rhetoric is worded the same for all curses. For example, the parts about Black skin, typically the racism recorded about that that is about black people not indigenous people outside of the BOM. But in typical Mormon racism black people are the ones who's seed is cursed and if mixed with white people s blood the seed is cursed. In too many areas the Curses are conflated and mean the same things.