Dear Xbox: Don't Get Left Behind -- an open letter to Xbox about the future of console gaming. www.gamasutra.com/blogs/JibbSmart/20191224/356100/Dear_Xbox_Dont_Get_Left_Behind.php
Hi! It's free and open source. You can always find the latest version here: github.com/JibbSmart/JoyShockMapper/releases There are tutorials on how to use it on my channel and on GyroWiki: gyrowiki.jibbsmart.com
I decided to give analog stick + gyro aiming a try with my PS5 controller today and although I'm still leaps and bounds better with a mouse, it only took me about 2 hours of "getting used to it" before my gyro-assisted aiming with a controller was leaps and bounds better than anything I've ever been able to do with just raw analog sticks. I used ReWASD to set my left trigger as a "shift key" so the gyro is only active when it's held down, it was so satisfying that going back to just plain old analog sticks felt like something was broken. Analog + gyro assist is legit, I don't know why more console game developers aren't willing to give it a chance.
Turns out they decide to remain stagnate. Nintendo, a Japanese company not well known for competitive shooters, have already improve the genre with Splatoon, and that was in 2015. Western console and gaming companies that focus on shooters are now pathetically unimaginative and risk aversive by comparison.
@@williampan29 Well yes, but actually no. The first implementation of gyro aim that really improved the gameplay for me was Uncharted Golden Abyss (2011) on PS Vita which was developed by a western developer called Bend Studio. They even added the feature on their PS4 game Days Gone. An FPS game on the Vita called Killzone Mercenary also had really good gyro aim implementation.
Hello! As a Splatoon 2 player, I'm really happy that you created a method to use gyro aiming on PC games. I will be using Joyshot mapper for PC games from now on. Thank you!
Hi Somnia, you're right that Steam lets you do some of this. It has a nicer interface, too. But its gyro settings aren't as good and it doesn't have flick stick.
I’m mainly a PC gamer, but Splatoon 2 on the switch did a lot to solidify in my mind that Mouse>Gyro>Thumbsticks. Gyro allows for FAR more fine tuning and snappy response than a regular controller can (and should become the standard on consoles), but to me, nothing beats a traditional mouse for aiming.
I tend to agree. I've seen players aim better with gyro than they can with mouse, but I think it depends on the scenario and prior experience. When I say "the gyro is a mouse", I mean in terms of how the game should respond to it and what settings should be provided to users. This is not a popular opinion, but Splatoon 2's gyro controls aren't very good. One shouldn't assess what gyro is capable of from experience with Splatoon 2. But the game is a lot of fun and designed around the limitations of their gyro aiming implementation, so I still think it's a great game.
Until not even a month ago I couldn't have even imagined how good and accurate motion sensors can be.. nor how intuitive gyro aiming was (took me mere HOURS to get a grip on it!) I am still mind boggled how this can be so good and also how it could go so under the radar for SO MANY YEARS and how criminally underrated it was and STILL IS as a standard input control in gaming, both hardware and games alike.. 🤯
I always admired that sony moved forward with throwing a gyroscope into their controller while Microsoft still hasn't. Shame developers don't do anything with it though... I wish Microsoft added a gyroscope for their next console but it looks like they haven't... It would make halo way better. It would make console shooters in general way better! Nintendo seems to be the only ones pioneering this technology so far.
73 downvotes = 73 salty xbox fanboys who are literally the reason why microsoft doesn't innovate their controller because they throw a fit when they try to change it.
It is a shame that it looks like the new xbox controller won't have gyro, I wish PS5 would push gyro aiming but I know that's something that won't happen either.
I think there's still room for hope. The PS1 didn't have analog sticks until well after its release, but it also meant some games weren't playable without getting a new controller. If we can get Xbox's attention and show them what the gyro is capable of, maybe they'll see that it's worth supporting it from the get go. I also think PS5 might push gyro aiming now that cross-play is expected from players. They'll want some kind of advantage over Xbox.
4 года назад+2
@@JibbSmartGD As far as i remember, only Ape Escape needed the new Dual Shock controller, others had fallback to the old one.
Yes! This is why I play more and more on Switch, and less and lesson other consoles. I just can’t get back to analog stick fiddling. It is such, SUCH A SHAME,that PS4 doesn’t use its gyro! There wouod be so many great games, but they just feel so...last gen to control. Clunky, slow and robotic.
Yeah after playing Breath of the Wild and Resident Evil 5 + 6 that had gyro aiming on Switch, going to my PS4 to play Horizon Zero Dawn and Resident Evil 2 Remake were terribly disappointing as far as aiming goes
It's weird since some developers do know that gyro aiming is used on ps4. Look at the gravity rush series, days gone and even doom 64. No I'm not kidding on that last one. All are ps4 games that have gyro aiming
Great video, would love to see you cover the Steam Controller and its gyro functions sometime. Been using gyro on my steam controller since they went on sale for 5 dollars and I've been really enjoying it.
Thanks! Yeah, the Steam Controller is great. This channel mostly focuses on standard console controllers, because I want players and developers to realise the wasted potential of the controllers they already have. There also seems to be a bit of a misconception that gyro controls with a Steam Controller are drastically better than with a DualShock 4 or Switch controllers, but this isn't actually the case. But I'd like to show the Steam Controller, too. It does so much cool stuff.
@@JibbSmartGD The gyro itself is basically the same, but the steam controller shines with the fact that the gyro can be set to remain active under certain conditions, usually when the right pad is touched. So if you aren't touching the right pad, gyro does nothing, but when you actually touch the pad to aim, the gyro activates That being said, I want to be a game developer and I want to make an fps with flick stick as a preset option for traditional twin stick aiming. Haven't had the opportunity to try it myself, so I won't say I don't like it yet, but even though I will probably prefer the steam controller, I agree there should be more gyro options in all games where precise camera control is required
I'd say the switch pro controller is better for halo and fps than the ds4, because of the digital short pull triggers, and the crazy battery life is just nice.
That's fair enough. That's exactly why I shoot with shoulder buttons instead of triggers on DS4. But everyone knows Switch controllers can do this stuff. A lot of people have no idea PlayStation controllers can :)
This is why PC is Master Race. I don't have to rely on ancient tech like stick aiming. Imma go get a controller with gyro and just ditch K+M for non competitive games.
I talked to halo support to ask if the can have keyboard & mouse and controller inputs be read at the same time for better gyro aiming. They have no plans to fix the issue 😥
I dare say it might be just as good or even better with a switch pro controller. Gyro, offset sticks, digital trigger (i know that dualsense has feedback triggers).
@@Autotrope I loooooove the Switch's digital triggers for shooters. So good! In these videos I focused on PlayStation because gyro was well-known on Switch but usually overlooked on PlayStation
I hate halo alot for this reason honestly. Now we have to deal with crossplatform games like apex, fortnite and warzone where controller users beam m&k without even aiming because of aim assist. Much lower barrier of entry and skill..... It's really stupid that most consoles have this capability and we're still stuck with insane aim assist and magnetism etc.
@@WanderDMC I think it's totally fair. I mean it's in the game and they designed it like that, I hate it in halo too. And I can tell you when we were kids playing halo 2 or 3 nobody even thought about these things and realized how much the game is cheating.
Thanks very much! I use it as my wallpaper, too, and have it up to 2560x1440. At the moment, it's only available to those supporting me on Patreon, as a little "thank you", since I try to make as much of what I'm doing as possible freely available. I feel like a wallpaper is the kinda thing people would appreciate, but it's not withholding anything that might help get people into gyro gaming :) My Patreon is here: www.patreon.com/JibbSmart I'm still figuring out how to use it properly, so feedback and suggestions would be great. And of course, no pressure to support in that way 👍🏻
I'm all for gyro gaming, however I think Halo is a bad example of it's potential due to its meta of controller assist being better in a lot of cases. At that point, you're pretty much using a handicap in multiplayer playing with a controller emulating a mouse and keyboard since the game was designed for controllers
While the game was designed for controllers, it'd be a very tricky thing to make a shooter better for controllers than for mouse by design. I'd wager the only reason controllers are favoured at the moment is because of the extent to which aim assist is helping controller players. And aim assist is less about achieving a design vision and more "how much do we need to help the player to make aiming with thumbsticks not suck?"
Hello! Jibb Smart! Im playing minecraft with joyshockmapper and when I open my inventory the rumble starts to shake like crazy. My question is how do I turn off rumble/vibration? What command should I write in the config? Thank you for sharing this really awesome way of gyro!
Fantastic content. People really need to know how much better gyro aiming is that stick-only aiming on console, even Sony themselves. Thanks for this vid. Subbed!
Thank you! It's wild that Sony has had this amazing controller all this time, and we're about to get to the end of the PS4 generation without any games really doing a great job with it.
Gyro Gaming You think so? There are very few games that do it, but the ones that do (Gravity Rush 2, Flower, Days Gone) all do it very well. Check them out if you haven’t already!
I shouldn't say that with such confidence since I don't have a PS4, and I'd like to check them out. Paladins works with a DualShock 4 on PC and is okay at best. So I'm really thinking about Paladins, what I hear from PS4 players who use JSM on PC, and then what it's like on Switch, where there's Splatoon 2, Breath of the Wild, Fortnite, DOOM, Mario Odyssey, and they're all "okay" at best.
Don't get me wrong -- I'm glad more and more developers are exploring it! They just usually fall short of the potential these controllers provide, and I believe better implementations will be embraced by more players. We need good conventions on how to do gyro controls. When developers follow good conventions, it's really easy to do better than we're seeing in Paladins, Overwatch, Splatoon, etc.
Gyro Gaming Ah I see. I’m surprised to hear you say Splatoon 2 and BotW are only “okay” in Gyro aim: are the PC gyro games really that much better? Granted, the last time I really got into a gyro controlled game on PC was MGS5 w/ Steam Controller, which was phenomenal.
the issue with this setup in Halo specifically, is that KBM is /worse/ than controller, due to how a) 343 has handled porting halo to pc, and b) aim assist. As you’ve explained it, JoyshockMapper converts your controller into equivalent KBM inputs, which is where the problem lies. I’ve noticed that most of your gameplay is swat and Campaign, but Halo’s main pvp modes have longer TTKs than a one shot headshot, which is where aim assist, and its benefits with tracking, really end up leaving KBM in the dust, due to the micro adjustments that the game makes for normal controller users, and the ‘balancing’ mechanics that, on controller, are a minor nuisance, and on kbm, make for sometimes unwinnable fights. Things like bullet spread and bloom, might inconvenience a controller player, but they’ll still land most of their shots, and thus more confidently push enemies thanks to bullet magnetism and reticule stickiness, aka the reticule slowing over a target that jaime griesemer mentions. On KBM, you only get bullet magnetism at best, which means you have to make those micro adjustments yourself, while a controller player doesn’t even have to touch their stick to hit you. Add to that the issue of bloom, or recoil, or random shot deviation/spread, and the kbm player is going to suffer worse for the same reward a controller player basically gets handed to them on the other hand, if 343 and/or MS ever figure out how to properly integrate gyro aim into Halo, it will be /the/ dominant input method, at least unless they reduce aim assist massively. But for now, it seems like Halo has bigger issues to resolve before tackling gyro aim. Like fixing the existing aim assist issues, hit detection issues, and kbm aiming problems in MCC and Infinite.
In theory it works pretty well. But I couldn't do it with joyshockmapper. The drift for it is pretty bad. So I just made my own version on steam input. The big difference between my version is that the right stick can only quickly look to left and right. Also while holding RB, the gyro is disabled and changes the right stick to have normal movement. Mainly to readjust looking up and down
Did you try calibrating the gyro in JoyShockMapper? Steam's auto calibration helps if the gyro is prone to wandering bias, but manual calibration is usually best for accuracy
As someone who is top a controller player, do you think it’s worth trying gyro if I already play extremely well with regular thumbsticks? Would I be able play like a normal controller with a little input from the gyro or is it better to have gyro be the main input for aiming instead of a thumbstick? I’m imagining using a controller with no aim assist + help from precise gyro input, is that what it’s like? I’m really not trying to brag, but I’m not sure if I can get more accurate with a controller. But this looks so cool and if anything could help me get to another level, this has to be it.
From what I've seen, experienced controller players are usually able to ease into it. You can just use it for small adjustments at first. Maybe with some practice do some flicks that are difficult to do with a thumbstick. As you get used to it, you'll find a balance of using gyro more and more for what it's good for while still relying on stick for what it does well. You'll need to be more mindful of keeping the controller still when not trying to aim with gyro, though. If you're playing a game with an ADS button, you can make it so gyro is only active while that button/trigger is held, if you like. Lots of room to ease into it :)
Depends on the game. I think Halo doesn't allow mixed input. In DOOM Eternal I had Steam do the left stick, hide everything else, and do all the rest in JoyShockMapper, but since version 3 JoyShockMapper can do the analog input as well.
the dual shock stick layout (ALL playstation controllers) is unusable for people who have wide hands (large thumb offset distance) and hold the controller properly. Steam controller is the only controller that fits my hands right and has easy to enable gyro support out of the box
If 343 made it so that halo would natively support the steam api, then flick stick would be so much easier to impliment in all of the halo games. Especially 2 and 3. Dual wielding makes making control schemes with mouse gyro hard. Let alone flick stick
I honestly think that games supporting steam input api is just as important as gyro aiming being an option in ps5 games and switch. Not ps4. It's too late now
BTW for anyone who wants to play 2 and 3 with dual wielding, I've spent days trying to get it to work right. But I think I finally got a profile right to the best of my abilities
I spent way too much time trying to get flick stick to really work with dual wielding in halo 2 and 3. With how it works with certain ways you interact with a button (meaning hold or tap it), it is way to hard to do. So I just gave up and used mouse-like joystick for gyro. It's not bad. I still don't know why camera sensetivity for turrets and vehicles only has one sensetivity when using a gamepad
In games where you already have an aim button (aim down sights, draw bow, etc) you can make it so that the gyro is only on while that button is pressed. Another option is to have the gyro disabled while using the right stick (GYRO_OFF = RIGHT_STICK) so that you can correct your controller's position without undoing the correcting you're doing with the right stick. You can also have it so that gyro is only enabled while using the right stick -- this is awkward with traditional stick aiming, but works pretty well with flick stick. These are all detailed in JoyShockMapper's README :)
Pff, I'm still waiting the day Microsoft allows Halo to be on a Nintendo console, don't care which one, and Nintendo surprising everyone it is Wiimote and nunchucks compatible and the true experience to play it.
Yeah, I get that a lot of people like the other layout, but I'm not convinced it's actually superior. Why asymmetrical? If changing the left stick position is better, shouldn't the right stick (which is probably even more important for games like this, at least with traditional twin-stick shooting) be changed as well? I don't mind either way, though, and I picked the DualShock 4 because PlayStation is a more direct rival to Xbox. I do think the Switch Pro Controller is great. It doesn't have analog triggers, but the DS4's are so bad that the Switch Pro Controller is probably better anyway. But I prefer the DualShock 4's higher report rate since I play on a 144Hz monitor.
Oh, and the other reason I favour the DualShock 4 for these videos is that a lot of people don't know PlayStation controllers can do this, but have at least a vague idea that this can be done with Switch controllers.
@@JibbSmartGD Gyro Gaming Yeah I don't really mind using either layout, I just grew up using the Xbox layout so it will always be my preferred layout. If I had to try and back it up I would say that given the player is going to be moving forward far more often than side to side having the joystick be vertically aligned with the thumb is more controllable and less likely to slip than the horizontal alignment of the Playstation. The right stick is fine where it is as it's used for looking around and the player looks side to side far more than up or down. The thumbs work better pushing and pulling so having the sticks arranged to fit that makes it a better overall setup. Not sure I've even seen a controller that switched the right stick other than the Wii U gamepad and Wii U pro controller. If I recall correctly people didn't like it cause it messed up the face buttons. This mostly applies to first and third person shooters. When you leave those genres it mostly becomes a crap shoot.
i downloaded the program, maybe i'm missing something or not understanding. I can't get the gyro to work and I can't get it to work like you have it in the video. What am I doing wrong? I downloaded a Halo Reach config but the gyro won't work. Please help. Thanks!
What controller are you using? Halo Reach won't accept controller and mouse input at the same time, so if it's detecting your controller, it could be blocking your gyro input (which gets converted to mouse)
Is there any easy simple-stupid way to get this setup through MCC on Steam? I have an Xbox elite series 2, a dual shock 4, dual shock 5, and a steam controller. I want to start getting ready for the steam deck and halo infinite, which means getting good at gyro!
Absolute easiest way to do it would probably be to enable gyro controls in Steam -- go to the controller configuration menu in Steam's Big Picture Mode and you can activate gyro from there You can also set up flick stick from Steam. Xbox Elite Series 2 doesn't have gyro, but the other controllers you listed do.
Shame that halo 2 and 3 can't really utilize flick stick properly because of dual wielding. Having different buttons change to what they do. It's a hassle
@@JibbSmartGD dual wielding makes it so that the left mouse is the right weapon and right mouse is the left weapon. For controllers, dual wielding is just holding Y. It's a hassle trying to make it work on controller since you need to make dual wielding an action layer. Which doesn't work all the time. It can get confusing
Hi! Steam's Configurator doesn't have flick stick (yet, although Valve is aware of it and considering implementing it), and its gyro settings aren't as good as I'd like. I also wanted to implement it myself so I can learn what it takes to make gyro controls good, rather than just pointing at another program and saying "look, can't you do it like that?" without knowing how easy or hard it is to do.
@@JibbSmartGD Can't wait to use this with my DualSense and I have a Steam Controller. Gotta wean myself off that eventually, and be free from Steam Input compatibility craziness I have to deal with in non Steam Games.
They haven't put it in the PlayStation version yet, but I've played a little on PC with the same tools I used to make this video. I haven't played enough to make a video, but it seems like a good idea :)
There's no gyro option on the PC version, last I heard. I had to use other tools like JoyShockMapper. Fortnite has gyro aiming in its Switch version, but last time I tried it it wasn't very good. Still better than just using a stick, but it's less reliable than it should be.
I'm using a program I created called JoyShockMapper to convert controller input into keyboard and mouse input. It's open source and free to use -- link in the description.
I get this channel is all about promoting gyro aim, but I'd like to address some of the stick comments. It's assumed they're outright terrible, but really developers are most of what make them that way. Bungie/Halo CE is known for creating the modern aim assists, but what's never acknowledged is how terrible the thumbsticks were set up. This is Halo CE's deadzone: i.imgur.com/VfRgoi0.png And Reach's for relevancy: i.imgur.com/2yxCta8.png Halo CE's deadzone was largely carried through to Halo: ODST, but even Reach's deadzone change(which has carried up through Halo 5) hardly makes it good. A large deadzone gimps making precise movements, a square deadzone makes acceleration irregular and heavily restricts diagonal movement, and the classic titles had wildly inconsistent diagonal movement. The games also force lower vertical sensitivity which makes diagonal movement more horizontally bias, making what diagonal movement you have access to even more wrong. The Classic/Modern settings in the menu don't have anything to do with aim assist. As mentioned above/shown in the above graphs, the classic games had unnormalized diagonal acceleration which makes diagonal movement feel wildly inconsistent and overly sensitive. 343i added this option in the MCC to address the issues with the original titles. For Reach and 4 this option does little. We can say controlling a crosshair with a stick is terrible, but when it's set up with those issues it's all but guaranteed to be the case. Instead of trying to improve the ways the sticks were handled, Bungie created the modern aim assists and called it a day. The rest of the industry followed suit implementing a myriad of different problems with their stick controls and covering it with varying levels of aim assist. Unfortunately, some of those issues and dependence on aim assist are considered *_good things_* by some developers instead of being mistakes and blamed on controllers, and you've referenced Resistance 3's GDC video in your, "Why not just use thumbsticks" blogpost. That's probably one of the most unfortunate videos I've seen on this subject. Resistance 3 and Insomniac's games in general control poorly and is sad to see it presented as if it was helpful. They even added some, "thumbs can't move vertically" nonsense to excuse gimping vertical movement drastically. Halo and other games could have easily functioned without aim assist if stick controls were held to a very basic standard instead of the wild west of garbage they are. Cursor navigation in RTS was another thing you brought up in that blogpost, and something that's also wildly better if the stick controls were handled well. Games like Destiny, Halo Wars and others with cursor UIs have poor cursor controls, and can be done better without the icon aim assist and with small icons with the same basic improvements. Navigating interfaces like World of Warcraft's or clicking on units in Starcraft with a stick isn't a significant issue with decent controls. That's a wall, but I don't want this to seem like I'm against gyro implementation or overhyping sticks. Complaints against issues with implementations of the mouse or gyro quality are common, but colossal failings in stick setups are brushed off as sticks being hopelessly bad. It's just frustrating seeing such a strong stigma built around an industry's collective and continuous failed implementations.
Hi! Thanks for the details on Halo's implementations. It seemed to me that Halo was a good game for the topic of aim assist because it is Halo's legacy, even if its stick aiming isn't the best. While I've learned more from other developers since making this video and since my blog on "Why not just use thumbsticks", I think shortcomings of Resistance 3's stick aiming don't do much to account for the shortcomings of stick aiming generally. Cross-shaped deadzones suck, and many modern games avoid them altogether, having only a circular deadzone (that can be shrunk reasonably far, too). But it's worth acknowledging developers have used cross-shaped deadzones in the past to solve a very real problem: players (especially new players) struggling with not pointing the stick exactly where they want to turn. This may not be a problem for experienced players, but it's enough of a problem for new players that some older games have options for the camera to automatically pull to the horizon over time. It's a symptom of stick aiming being difficult to learn for many people. Games that have done away with the cross-shaped deadzone often do other things to solve this problem, like biasing the input direction towards the nearest axis. This is very useful for new players, and experienced players appear to do a great job aiming in spite of it. But I do wish they'd all provide the option to disable that bias completely so expert players can get the most out of their stick aiming. I'm aware that in spite of games offering poor options with stick controls, some players are able to do phenomenal things with stick aiming. These players are absolutely exceptional. And there'd probably be more of these exceptional players if games would let players not just turn off aim assist, but also have full control over their deadzone, disable any directional bias, etc. But in my estimation, most players won't benefit from these options without an extraordinary amount of practice with stick aiming. And while these days, 20 years after Halo, there are hundreds of thousands or millions of players with that much practice, there are also so many new players starting out each day who don't have that practice to build on. And for these players, they really are better off with generous aim assist and their aim being pushed towards the nearest axis. Like some other input mappers, JoyShockMapper doesn't do any of that directional warping for its stick aiming, so it's useful for those who want more direct control over their aim. Configurable circular deadzones (or no deadzone if you want!), response curve, acceleration, etc. I guess you're probably talking from experience with some other input mapper when you say that playing Starcraft with a thumbstick isn't a significant issue. So there's plenty of opportunity for players to show what's possible with stick aiming. But I think they'll usually also acknowledge that it takes a lot of work and skill to make stick aiming look comparable to mouse aiming. I get your frustration, though, and I'm sorry if I made it sound like stick aiming is already as good as it's ever going to get. I totally get it -- a lot of people reject gyro aiming based on their experience in AAA games that have fallen so far short of what's actually possible, too.
@@JibbSmartGD I'm not really comparing sticks to the potential of mice or gyro. There is additional difficulty using a velocity system over a 1:1 system, and you are limited to whatever sensitivity you're using in normal cases. It's just the difference between what games get and how it should be dramatically better. Most of the tracking and precise adjustments you've demonstrated with gyro in this video are well within what sticks should be offering unassisted even if the gyro flicks are beyond it. Square deadzones aren't as common as they used to be, but circular deadzones are still far from the standard in most recent games. I've heard that defense of restricted diagonal movement, however while it helps stay perfectly horizontal/vertical, it ends up taking more effort to make diagonal corrections if you're not on the desired level. It's a trade off at best and detrimental in most other cases with any level of verticality. Much like mouse acceleration and smoothing(which have their analogues with controllers) are advocated against to maintain aiming consistency, teaching players to adapt to wrong angular movement isn't particularly helpful for improvement. I really don't think it takes a substantial amount of time for players to become decent at aiming if they're given proper controls. Players have taken to any newly added options quickly, and there weren't any complaints I've come across in the older games that did use circular deadzones with unrestricted diagonal movement. I completely support adding aim assist as an option for accessibility, but fumbling the controls and/or requiring it to cover those issues limits how the player can grow. Even skilled console players rely on strafe-aim because there's little confidence in the controls they're given. I've used Antimicro for M&KB emulation on most PC games, and that has options for simple circular deadzones and acceleration curves which is probably not different from your program's implementation if it offers them. I doubt one could navigate fast enough to contribute to the 200-300apm StarCraft multiplayer is known for, but navigating UI's or selecting specific units has never been an issue and console titles getting that basic quality control quality would greatly improve the UI cursors there. There is an opportunity to show what you can manage with sticks with emulators, but very few have really tried and most developers haven't been particularly responsive to feedback on it. I'm all for games supporting whatever input players want to use and it's important that every method is implemented as good as possible. It's shame if gyro's not being implemented properly, but gyro's at least gotten a decent amount of support from players and more so as time goes on. I just throw my two cents around on this because sticks really haven't been given a chance to function well yet.
Super amp for the pc version, use to play halo3 on 360 but switched to ps4 and now I have a iMac I guess my question is can I download for Mac and can I get a download to make my PS4 controller compatible
I think, since it's Microsoft, it's unlikely to run on Mac :( JoyShockMapper, which is what I'm using to play with a PS4 controller, is Windows only, too, and you can find it here: github.com/JibbSmart/JoyShockMapper
You should have gotten a Steam Controller. It does this even better than a DS4 and more. This is actually the optimum way to use a SC for any 3D game where aiming is necessary. Also, you can just use Steam and don't need another program to bind keyboard and mouse to the DS4. It's literally a feature of the Steam client controller configuration menu, and it natively supports the DS4. It also has things like action sets, layers, and activators that you can set up on any gamepad, including the DS4. You can also use this feature with non-Steam games. Just add a game to your library and it will work 99% of the time. Sometimes it doesn't work, but usually you can just install it in your Steam Common folder to fix the issue. Yes this works even with games from Origin or Uplay usually, as they just see your Steam/steamapps/common folder as another install directory. If that doesn't work, the fix is usually to just set up desktop bindings in the Steam Client and play that way. Still, the Steam Controller was literally designed around this kind of play. It's much better than the DS4 for this use. The grip pads on the underside of the controller make a huge difference, the touchpads are great for the kind of aiming you're talking about, and the pads do things sticks just can't. It also has a joystick, but I recommend just setting up move on the right touchpad instead. The trick is to just set up a big enough deadzone that you can easily find the center, but still don't need to move your thumb much to move. It's easier to get used to than you'd think. SC also has the open source Global Steam Controller for those very rare stubborn games that refuse to work even with a desktop binding and an install in the Steam/steamapps/common folder. Letting you take advantage of the Steam Controller Configuration options that programs like that don't offer with activators, layers, and action sets. I have had a SC since they launched, and a DS4 since the PS4 was released, and have used both for PC games. I used to use the DS4 for things like twin stick shooters, but then discovered mouse region and now I never use it for PC gaming anymore because the SC simply works better for everything than a DS4 does if it is set up with a good configuration.
@@CrewsterEX You don't need it. WIth the Steam client you can set up sensitivity on the touchpad independently of the gyro and accomplish effectively the same thing. Flick Stick emulates mouse flicking, which has been a thing since mouse look has existed. Of course the SC can do this. This means your touchpad sensitivity can be set high enough that it is easy to turn 180 degrees in an instant with the gyro relegated to actual aiming at a lower sensitivity. If you just disable vertical movement and set the sensitivity properly on the touchpad. Even if it's slightly different mechanically as you use short swipes in either direction instead of a flick, it still has the exact same results in game. You want the stick or touchpad to point you in the general direction, and use the gyro to lock on to your target with. That's not two separate motions by the way, the thing about this is that to be good at it you need to learn how to do this in tandem rather than look at it as two separate motions. It takes some getting used to, but once you get it you'll wreck 3D shooter games without the need for any aim assist at all. On top of that, you can also use trigger dampening to easily give yourself a different sensitivity for iron sight aiming, or set up an action set on the left trigger if you want the sensitivity higher. Plus, you can set up the gyro to activate on right pad touch, for much easier and more convenient recentering. I also find it works best to turn down vertical sensitivity on the gyro a bit as well. You want to be able to look up and down easily, but also want horizontal movement to be stronger. I really can't see any advantage the DS4 has over the SC at all, even with Flick Stick.
@@WarlikePrimal sorry what is flick stick? Isn't it the same type of flick people do with mice? Cause in that case the SC can obviously do that, I don't even see why that'd need explanation
@@CrackCECKer So the guy who made this video made a program called JoyShockMapper. One feature of that program is it allows you turn your right analogue stick into a "flick stick". It works like this: ruclips.net/video/C5L_Px3dFtE/видео.html I was just asking why he thinks the SC is better than the DS4, I couldn't extract any significant objective advantages from his comment.
R2 and L2 on the PS4 controller are absolutely awful in terms of ergonomics, which is why Steam has a native gyro aim support mechanism in place for PS4 controllers that will disable vertical movement whenever you press R2 or L2, because without that you will always involuntarily move your controller upwards, because of the angle you press the trigger in. which is why the Switch Pro Controller is the actual good way to play games using Gyro. the PS4 controller is an ergonomics nightmare
I shoot with R1 instead of R2 for exactly this reason. Even without gyro it's better because the triggers have to be pulled so far before they respond.
@@JibbSmartGD I never had an issue with the actual activation, but the ergonomics of the DualShock 4 specifically are just awful. even when it's not about precision using gyro aim. I played a lot of RocketLeague on PS4, and if you constantly hold R2 to accelerate you will also push the controller up, which automatically makes you hold it down using the rest of your hand, and that over time will literally hurt your hand. no other current gen controller has such bad ergonomics. the Xbox Controller has you push the controller towards your body and not up or down when holding down the triggers, and they are also have way less tension which gives you better precision for racing games and make it super comfortable to hold them down. the Switch Controller is perfect for gyro aiming IMO due to its digital triggers and with it better ergonomics
I think you make a good point about the DS4 ergonomics. Reckon this will be any better with the DualSense? There really is a lot of room for improvement with the trigger activation, too.
@@JibbSmartGD the grips look way thicker and less curved ontop, which is good, and even in their blog post they said something about the trigger angle, so I think they are aware. I mean when even Valve was aware enough of this issue that they implemented an option to mitigate aim jerking, Sony should notice it too. the DualSense looks freaky as hell, almost like a fake mockup you'd see in some scifi game or movie, but I like it.
I read the comments under the video. I have experience creating a hardware controller, you can see on my channel. Let me also add my opinion. Steam Controller is discontinued. There is a risk that in 5 years there will be no possibility to use SC. On SC it is not possible to play, except through the Steam Client. I do not understand why you need a stick for the sight, if there is a gyroscope. Gyroscopes have the same sensitivity on PS4 or SC. Acceleration is necessary if you aim only with a gyroscope, so that your wrist does not fall off:) Over time, you will learn to control the acceleration. If you play at high sensitivity and make a decrease with the trigger, then this is an additional action, it is also necessary to get used to it. On consoles, it is unlikely that there will be official support for the gyroscope in shooters, especially network, because it will complicate the process of balancing players. Keyboards and mice do not have support because of this on the console in games. JoyShockMapper not working after AMD video driver update, error "0x000007b".
Thanks for your perspective! I think regarding balance: it kinda simplifies things as console and PC players can play together. Some console players will prefer playing without gyro, but they're in the same situation as PC players who prefer to play with a controller without gyro. Regarding the crash - a video driver update shouldn't affect a simple console application. That's very weird. Can you create an issue on JoyShockMapper's GitHub page and we'll figure it out there? Thanks!
@@JibbSmartGD After installation dotnet-sdk-3.1.100 it worked well
4 года назад
I used the steam controller extensively. The problem with gyro only is that you cannot have precise aiming and a fast way to turn around at the same time, unless you use a VR headset or a laptop on your lap and on a rotating chair. In my experience the problem with acceleration, is that you can't really learn it, in the same way as you can without it.
@ Everywhere you need a balance and measure:) You need to adjust so that you can make a 180-degree turn with a quick movement. In other cases, do not make any sudden movements. I have no acceleration on the mouse, I use it on the gamepad all the time.
It probably adds a very small amount of input lag due to converting controller input into mouse input. I've never measured it. My guess is processing of the input would take less than 1ms, but I don't know how long it takes for virtual mouse and keyboard events to get processed.
JoyShockMapper converts stick inputs to keyboard inputs if you want. That's what I'm doing here :) So the stick movement isn't as nice as it would be if it was natively supported by the game.
Steam input can't do flick stick, doesn't give the user as much control over things like acceleration and smoothing, and doesn't let you use the natural sensitivity scale. It's got a much better interface, though, and my hope is that they'll add these features. But I also hope game developers embrace these features as explained on GyroWiki, and creating my own program lets me say with confidence what these controllers can do, and how hard it is to do :)
Despite what he says, acceleration should always be off. This is what any pro gamer will tell you. Even for casual play it's more a hindrance than help. It's one more thing that you have to train your muscle memory to adjust for, even when you do it still hurts accuracy a little just by virtue of being impossible to be as consistent due to varying speed causing different results, and there is no benefit to using it to play games at all. At best if you get good at using it you're mitigating a handicap. The same goes for mouse smoothing, it should be set to the bare minimum to avoid jitter and zero if possible, which you can easily do with the Steam Client. The real benefit to using Joyshock is that you can use Flick Stick, which is indeed far better than the standard analog stick controls for a DS4. The more fine control over mouse acceleration and smoothing elements don't matter, as both should be off if possible anyway. Smoothing you shouldn't need for a stick if you're using Flick Stick at all, and you might want to apply a tiny amount to the gyro settings if your cursor or reticle is being jittery. You want just enough to stabilize it and no more. He's right that Joyshock better if you're using a DS4, absolutely. It is absolutely superior to the Steam Client for that specific gamepad. However, he is overselling some of the features a bit.
@@contrabardus For players whose hands aren't super steady, it's literally impossible to keep the aimer steady without acceleration, smoothing, or a minimum threshold. A minimum threshold is the worst, and should always be avoided, though JSM gives players the option if they want. JSM's smoothing is relatively unique in that it only applies to low-velocity inputs. It adds no lag or imprecision to any movements above a small threshold, and of course it's optional. JSM's acceleration settings are better than you'll find in most places, letting you set a minimum velocity below which there's no acceleration, and a maximum velocity above which there's no acceleration. You're applying things that are usually true for pros with mouse aiming to gyro aiming indiscriminately. But there are differences. Gyro aiming doesn't have pros yet. Pros on a mouse can play with a big mousepad, but you can't increase the size of your "mousepad" with gyro, so acceleration is a good option to let you use your most effective sensitivity for precision and your most effective sensitivity for range at the same time. It might turn out to be true that pros will play better without acceleration. For casual players, though, acceleration is helpful here. And a good rule of thumb in game development is to make the default options good for beginners, since you can count on more experienced gamers to tweak the settings to their taste. Basically, acceleration is a useful option. Smoothing can be for some people when done well. And I try to play in all my videos with settings that first-timers can learn relatively easily.
@@JibbSmartGD Um, no. Acceleration does not help with steadying anything. I don't get why you think that, but you're flat out wrong. Acceleration does not help with anything like that in this kind of gaming. Not on a mouse, not on a joystick, and not on a gyro. It is useful for navigating a desktop interface, and especially for multi screen setups, but not for gaming where you need to be aiming. By its very nature it is anti-steadying because it applies distance to the mouse based on movement speed. In no way does that do anything to help with steadying. Having it only applied within a range only mitigates the issues a little, but doesn't solve them. It literally makes it harder to be consistent with movements because of how it works and what it does. Smoothing is also not really helpful in any measure beyond the minimal. Steam client does smoothing just fine if you need it. It not only has a smoothing slider, but also dampening features, vertical friction adjustment, and vertical scale sensitivity adjustment. All of which accomplish much of what smoothing does without the drawbacks. I think part of the issue is that you're looking at smoothing there as only the smoothing slider, and not regarding the other features that mitigate the need for it. I'd also argue that the trackpad emulation works better than acceleration and accomplishes essentially the same thing, though I also don't recommend using it either and prefer it off. It's slightly better than acceleration, but still has similar drawbacks if you want to be precise. Smoothing should only be necessary if you have a cheap mouse with a low DPI. The Steam Controller's touchpad, the DS4 joystick, and both the DS4 and SC's gyros shouldn't need it at all. They are all sensitive enough that it should be completely unnecessary. Neither is really helpful for gaming with the exception of smoothing if you don't have a gaming mouse and are just using a cheap mouse. Also, if you're having trouble steadying your hands, I would question how you're holding the pad more than suggesting that you need smoothing or acceleration to fix it. Maybe use a pillow to stabilize your arms or something, that's a much better solution than using acceleration or smoothing. If you're having trouble pointing with the gyro, you need to turn the sensitivity up, not use acceleration. It fixes the issue you're describing without the drawbacks. The way to adjust your gyro sensitivity is to find a place where two objects are on either side of the screen on the edges with your cursor in the middle. You should be able to quickly move back and forth between the two objects with comfortable motions. I also think part of the problem is that you're thinking of the stick or touchpad and gyro as two separate actions. This is not how you make the most of gyro aiming with a gamepad, Flick Stick or not. You should be using both together, using the stick or touchpad to do bigger aiming motions and point you to the general direction of things you need to shoot, and using the gyro simultaneously to zero on the specific target. It's more like one motion than two. You need your thumb and wrists to work together to make the most of this kind of aiming. It sounds like you've developed some bad gaming habits to me rather than you knowing something about smoothing and acceleration that I don't. I understand how both work and what they do perfectly well, and they are not helpful for games. I stand by my earlier statements and explained in detail why mouse acceleration isn't helpful for gaming due to the nature of what it does and how that impacts muscle memory. This applies as much to a gyro as it does to a mouse. You just can't be as consistent with acceleration just due to what it does. It's handicapping yourself to use it at all because you will never have consistent enough speed with the kind of motions you make to use a gyro, or even a thumbstick or touchpad, to be as accurate as you can without it. The very nature of how these two features work is counterproductive for gaming. It doesn't matter how much "control" you have over how much is applied. None is absolutely best for acceleration, and smoothing should only be applied if you're having issues with mouse jitter and only as a last resort if other features like dampening or vertical sensitivity scale can't fix it. Even then, just enough to get rid of it should be applied and no more. The advice you're giving about acceleration and smoothing is misguided. It does not help newer gamers adjust and just makes things harder to acclimate to. It is far better to form good habits and just not use them in the first place, and if you are you should break that habit because it is not helpful, gyro or otherwise.
@@contrabardus Having a lower sensitivity helps with stability, but hurts range. Having a higher sensitivity helps range and hurts sensitivity (I think we're on the same page here, but just trying to be clear). Acceleration lets you use a sensitivity with good range (as you described, finding a sensitivity that lets you comfortably move between targets on the edge of the screen is a good one) for your medium-to-fast speed input, but REDUCE your sensitivity for your slow input, giving more precision when you need a steady hand. I understand your concerns with having non-constant sensitivity. Working within that acceleration range will take a little more getting used to. But well-understood, well-constrained acceleration can certainly increase precision -- not by increasing your sensitivity above normal as I think you think I'm saying, but by decreasing it when it's better to have lower sens.
Part of it is comfort. You don't need a desk or something to rest a mouse on when playing with a controller. Part of it is the freedom of movement an analog stick gives you that WASD doesn't. The biggest thing, though, is I'm demonstrating the kinds of things console games could embrace and be better.
@@JibbSmartGD I very much agree, and appreciate you getting to my comment so quick. I find that the tool you're using is really fun to play halo with, but I'm getting a lot of issues like getting used to the aiming, having to 'recenter' my gyro by aiming all the way down to sort of reset the vertical orientation. There's also the fact that restarting the calibration can interrupt the gameplay. I don't know if I trust this enough to play it with multiplayer, but it's really fun. Have you found that it's not too tough to configure it such that these problems aren't an issue?
It does take some getting used to, but there are settings most games don't provide that can help. If you have a button that can disable the gyro while it's held, that can be really helpful for resetting your vertical orientation for example. Think about how when we use a mouse, we have to get used to lifting the mouse off the mousepad and repositioning it. If we couldn't do that, the mouse would suck for games like these. It's the same with gyro -- we need a way to disable it so we can reposition it, and it can be as simple as having it disabled while a certain button is held :) That's just one example, but I think it's a big one. I find that I normally only have to calibrate once right at the beginning and then it's all good for the rest of the play session, but maybe not all gyros are created equal. To answer your question, I think it's not too hard to work around most problems with gyro aiming. It's not perfect, but I think its benefits outweigh its challenges.
@@JibbSmartGD I've been playing the halo games with this controller configuration for a few days, and first off it's very fun. It feels very different, and feels like a new experience to play an FPS with. I agree that this would be a great option to people who may not have good computer mice or just prefer to hold a controller. I do however, am unsure if I'm sacrificing my potential for performance by potentially using this control configuration primarily. I know that it takes some time to get used to it, and I'm impressed how Heroic difficulty on Halo CE is already kicking my ass, but I find that multiplayer is nearly impossible to do well in (with my skills as they are now). I also find that the one unquestionable advantage of a pad, the left stick analog movement, is not provided this way as is. Making large movements with the right stick to flick in a certain direction can be very useful, but also disorientating. With a mouse, you move at a certain pace, and instead of darting to and from, you're able to take in a bit more info. Again, these are just my impressions. It's already really fun as opposed to thumbstick aiming, but I'm mostly just curious if I could make this my primary control scheme and perform just as well (if not maybe better?) than with a mouse. Also, the tool as it is now can sometimes inexplicably stop working, requiring me to restart it, just commenting on the tool itself. I don't expect you to address all my concerns, but I hope you take them to mind if no one else has mentioned my particular perspective. I'm still going to have a lot of fun experimenting.
@@ThumpingThromnambular Thanks for giving it a good solid go. Halo's a great game for this kinda thing, because it's got such good singleplayer and multiplayer. Singleplayer is probably best for getting comfortable with something new. I think it's only natural for multiplayer to take some getting used to, especially if you've already been playing with controls you're already comfortable with. I know people who'd say they can do better with flick stick + gyro than a mouse, and having seen them play I think they're probably right. For me, I think I still play a little better with a mouse. Very hard to compare with something we have so much more experience with. So I wouldn't blame you for returning to mouse for competitive reasons. For me, flick stick was useful very quickly but sometimes disorienting. It took a while to get comfortable enough with it that I'm never disorientated by it. If you're up for spending more time with it, I'm sure you'll get there :) Thanks for your feedback. I appreciate the thoughtful response, and I'm very interested in seeing what more people do and don't like about it. The Discord is a good place to find others experimenting not just with flick stick, but other ways to get the most out of a controller, if you're interested. On the tool sometimes not working out of nowhere, that's unusual -- is there any more info you can give me on that? Is it frozen, or just not reading controller input anymore? Are you able to try the RECONNECT_CONTROLLERS command? What controller are you playing with, and is it wired or wireless?
There are ways in which it's better (gyro, for example), but most games treat it like it has no more features than an Xbox controller. And in that regard, it's not as good as an Xbox controller. This is mainly because the triggers on a DS4 need to be pulled really far before the game can see any input from it, whereas Xbox triggers will report input at the slightest touch. This means they need a software deadzone, but it's easy to make this adaptive and much more responsive than DS4 triggers.
@@JibbSmartGD The game configs are moot for me, as I use Steam's settings to pretty much make everything reconfigurable. Just having the touchpad as a tap function can do something as useful as execute an Up + RB macro to kick on command in Souls, without any chance of ever fluffing it. Heck, it's possible to bind 16 different inputs to the touchpad alone, if bound to 4 face buttons per-side, with both click and touch activation - and that's before you even get into modifiers, action layers and chord binds. I've never had trouble with the triggers, as I set the ranges to max. Though, I played DiRT Rally (with gyro, ofc) up to Masters on it without much issue. Regardless, it's just so damn functional in comparison, my Xbone pad does nothing but gather dust. I'll concede that the stick placement on the X is easier on the wrist, but otherwise, the DS4's face buttons feel much more high quality and comfortable to press repeatedly, than the hard and bumpy Xbox ones. Not to mention the D-Pad, which is mmmmm, perfect for retro games. I cannot stand the Xbone's tiny clicky thing. Each to their own though, ey ;)
I 100% agree with you that the DS4 offers way more functionality :) Steam's settings are pretty good, and tools like that and JSM open up lots of possibilities that favour the DS4 over Xbox controllers. Overall, it's a way better controller than the Xbox controller. When I say it's a "sub-par Xbox controller", I'm just saying that when you treat it like it only has the features of an Xbox controller, you'll have a worse experience than using an actually Xbox controller. When you ignore the gyro and perhaps the touchpad in some circumstances, you're left with a controller that just isn't quite as good as Xbox. The triggers are adequate, but could be much better. Maybe I'll show this in a video some time, but Xbox controller triggers are much more sensitive to small movements than DS4 triggers. They're objectively better, even if you set the range to max in whatever software you're using, because those settings can't overcome the hardware deadzone. The sticks are objectively much lower resolution on a DS4, but in games like this with all that aim assist, I doubt it'll make a material difference. You make a good point about the d-pad, though -- I much prefer the DS4's d-pad, too. And I know some people even prefer the DS4 stick layout, so I'll make no judgements there.
I personally prefer the ds4 over the Xbox one controller, like the stick layout, and how the controller fits in my hand. I find in genuinely more comfortable to hold. Xbox one controller feels too big for me idk
@@djh8009 Original Doom didn't have Halo controls. It was just keyboard. But I don't think improving the controls is changing the way a game is supposed to be played, so I'm all for playing Doom with a controller 👍🏻
@@THEFALCON01 Any kind of assistance is a cheat in its nature. Especially with aiming. The problem is that people would rather use ancient control scheme with assistance than play the way it was always supposed to be played.
Dear Xbox: Don't Get Left Behind -- an open letter to Xbox about the future of console gaming.
www.gamasutra.com/blogs/JibbSmart/20191224/356100/Dear_Xbox_Dont_Get_Left_Behind.php
Is your program free or do I have to pay to use it?
Hi! It's free and open source. You can always find the latest version here: github.com/JibbSmart/JoyShockMapper/releases
There are tutorials on how to use it on my channel and on GyroWiki: gyrowiki.jibbsmart.com
@@JibbSmartGD you're a modern gaming hero. Thanks
Hi does it work on warzone?
It sure does :) I've played it a little and found it works really well
I decided to give analog stick + gyro aiming a try with my PS5 controller today and although I'm still leaps and bounds better with a mouse, it only took me about 2 hours of "getting used to it" before my gyro-assisted aiming with a controller was leaps and bounds better than anything I've ever been able to do with just raw analog sticks.
I used ReWASD to set my left trigger as a "shift key" so the gyro is only active when it's held down, it was so satisfying that going back to just plain old analog sticks felt like something was broken.
Analog + gyro assist is legit, I don't know why more console game developers aren't willing to give it a chance.
can you use gyro on ALL PS5 shooting games?
@@Eye_That_Opens I don't even know, I'm a PC gamer.
Somebody send this to Jason Schreier and ask him to write a story on how gyro NEEDS to be standard 9th gen
Do it! Anyone! Everyone!
rip
Turns out they decide to remain stagnate.
Nintendo, a Japanese company not well known for competitive shooters, have already improve the genre with Splatoon, and that was in 2015.
Western console and gaming companies that focus on shooters are now pathetically unimaginative and risk aversive by comparison.
@@williampan29 Well yes, but actually no. The first implementation of gyro aim that really improved the gameplay for me was Uncharted Golden Abyss (2011) on PS Vita which was developed by a western developer called Bend Studio. They even added the feature on their PS4 game Days Gone. An FPS game on the Vita called Killzone Mercenary also had really good gyro aim implementation.
@@williampan29 Totally agree
Hello! As a Splatoon 2 player, I'm really happy that you created a method to use gyro aiming on PC games. I will be using Joyshot mapper for PC games from now on. Thank you!
steam has this feature toooo in the controller settings :D
Hi Somnia, you're right that Steam lets you do some of this. It has a nicer interface, too. But its gyro settings aren't as good and it doesn't have flick stick.
@@JibbSmartGD ohh okay, thanks for answering me, i only used the steam tools, but i try it out😍thaaaankssss
@@somnia3423 team Beta has just implemented Flick Stick into the latest Steam Input (17th July 2020)
@@EyeQue62 ohhh😍 thank you for the info
This should have millions of views and likes.
Gyro is the future!
Try it now and you know why.
I’m mainly a PC gamer, but Splatoon 2 on the switch did a lot to solidify in my mind that Mouse>Gyro>Thumbsticks.
Gyro allows for FAR more fine tuning and snappy response than a regular controller can (and should become the standard on consoles), but to me, nothing beats a traditional mouse for aiming.
I tend to agree. I've seen players aim better with gyro than they can with mouse, but I think it depends on the scenario and prior experience. When I say "the gyro is a mouse", I mean in terms of how the game should respond to it and what settings should be provided to users.
This is not a popular opinion, but Splatoon 2's gyro controls aren't very good. One shouldn't assess what gyro is capable of from experience with Splatoon 2. But the game is a lot of fun and designed around the limitations of their gyro aiming implementation, so I still think it's a great game.
Until not even a month ago I couldn't have even imagined how good and accurate motion sensors can be.. nor how intuitive gyro aiming was (took me mere HOURS to get a grip on it!) I am still mind boggled how this can be so good and also how it could go so under the radar for SO MANY YEARS and how criminally underrated it was and STILL IS as a standard input control in gaming, both hardware and games alike.. 🤯
Tell'em JIBB! Shoutout from the gyrogaming Discord!
Dude this is so awesome! Super innovative and passionate work you've done! Looking forward to trying this out
Thanks so much 😁
I always admired that sony moved forward with throwing a gyroscope into their controller while Microsoft still hasn't. Shame developers don't do anything with it though...
I wish Microsoft added a gyroscope for their next console but it looks like they haven't... It would make halo way better. It would make console shooters in general way better! Nintendo seems to be the only ones pioneering this technology so far.
It'll have to change sooner or later, and a whole console generation is a long time to wait. Hopefully Microsoft is keeping a lid on it just for now.
@@JibbSmartGD those are my hopes as well. Fingers crossed that they decided to slap a gyro in there. It would almost be a perfect controller.
73 downvotes = 73 salty xbox fanboys who are literally the reason why microsoft doesn't innovate their controller because they throw a fit when they try to change it.
It is a shame that it looks like the new xbox controller won't have gyro, I wish PS5 would push gyro aiming but I know that's something that won't happen either.
I think there's still room for hope. The PS1 didn't have analog sticks until well after its release, but it also meant some games weren't playable without getting a new controller. If we can get Xbox's attention and show them what the gyro is capable of, maybe they'll see that it's worth supporting it from the get go.
I also think PS5 might push gyro aiming now that cross-play is expected from players. They'll want some kind of advantage over Xbox.
@@JibbSmartGD As far as i remember, only Ape Escape needed the new Dual Shock controller, others had fallback to the old one.
@ Yeah, Ape Escape is the only one I know off the top of my head. I don't know of any more, and it might really be the only one.
@@JibbSmartGD No hope now. :\
@ I believe Mega Man Legends required dualshock as well due to the verticality of some enemies.
Yes! This is why I play more and more on Switch, and less and lesson other consoles. I just can’t get back to analog stick fiddling. It is such, SUCH A SHAME,that PS4 doesn’t use its gyro! There wouod be so many great games, but they just feel so...last gen to control. Clunky, slow and robotic.
Yeah after playing Breath of the Wild and Resident Evil 5 + 6 that had gyro aiming on Switch, going to my PS4 to play Horizon Zero Dawn and Resident Evil 2 Remake were terribly disappointing as far as aiming goes
It's weird since some developers do know that gyro aiming is used on ps4. Look at the gravity rush series, days gone and even doom 64. No I'm not kidding on that last one. All are ps4 games that have gyro aiming
Great video, would love to see you cover the Steam Controller and its gyro functions sometime. Been using gyro on my steam controller since they went on sale for 5 dollars and I've been really enjoying it.
Thanks! Yeah, the Steam Controller is great. This channel mostly focuses on standard console controllers, because I want players and developers to realise the wasted potential of the controllers they already have. There also seems to be a bit of a misconception that gyro controls with a Steam Controller are drastically better than with a DualShock 4 or Switch controllers, but this isn't actually the case. But I'd like to show the Steam Controller, too. It does so much cool stuff.
@@JibbSmartGD So the gyroscope of Steam Controller is basically the same as Dualshock 4?
@@JibbSmartGD The gyro itself is basically the same, but the steam controller shines with the fact that the gyro can be set to remain active under certain conditions, usually when the right pad is touched. So if you aren't touching the right pad, gyro does nothing, but when you actually touch the pad to aim, the gyro activates
That being said, I want to be a game developer and I want to make an fps with flick stick as a preset option for traditional twin stick aiming. Haven't had the opportunity to try it myself, so I won't say I don't like it yet, but even though I will probably prefer the steam controller, I agree there should be more gyro options in all games where precise camera control is required
I'd say the switch pro controller is better for halo and fps than the ds4, because of the digital short pull triggers, and the crazy battery life is just nice.
That's fair enough. That's exactly why I shoot with shoulder buttons instead of triggers on DS4. But everyone knows Switch controllers can do this stuff. A lot of people have no idea PlayStation controllers can :)
This is why PC is Master Race. I don't have to rely on ancient tech like stick aiming. Imma go get a controller with gyro and just ditch K+M for non competitive games.
Breath of the Wild is very popular so hopefully more people are welcoming to Gyro. Breath of the wild with sticks only is fine, but I can't go back.
bro i dont wanna eat my controller if gyro is in next gen >:(
I like aim assist in battlefield because it can reveal players nearby.
SO basically your a little bitch...
@@jakedill1304 you're*
@@Muskers92 Your*
...Mom
Yeah and I like aimbot because it makes aim easier lmao like wtf kinda thing was that to say. Try playing without aim assist.
@@jakedill1304 hehehehehehe
I wonder how a flick stick would work in a VR shooter as opposed to the whole snap turn thing.
I think it could be a winner.. plus it would be awesome to have a standardized control scheme that worked across VR and pancake gaming
I talked to halo support to ask if the can have keyboard & mouse and controller inputs be read at the same time for better gyro aiming. They have no plans to fix the issue 😥
That's too bad :( Thanks for reaching out to them! The more they hear about a problem, the more likely they are to care about it
I dare say it might be just as good or even better with a switch pro controller. Gyro, offset sticks, digital trigger (i know that dualsense has feedback triggers).
@@Autotrope I loooooove the Switch's digital triggers for shooters. So good!
In these videos I focused on PlayStation because gyro was well-known on Switch but usually overlooked on PlayStation
I hate halo alot for this reason honestly. Now we have to deal with crossplatform games like apex, fortnite and warzone where controller users beam m&k without even aiming because of aim assist. Much lower barrier of entry and skill.....
It's really stupid that most consoles have this capability and we're still stuck with insane aim assist and magnetism etc.
That's not a fair reason to hate Halo. That's more so on everyone else who decided to copy Halo instead
@@WanderDMC I think it's totally fair. I mean it's in the game and they designed it like that, I hate it in halo too.
And I can tell you when we were kids playing halo 2 or 3 nobody even thought about these things and realized how much the game is cheating.
As a Xbox controller fan I hope gyroscopes will be added to the series x at some point like the headphone jack
Me too. Their controllers are otherwise so gooooood!
The background for that endcard looks awesome! Do you have a wallpaper sized image of it without the overlays? I'd like to use it as a background!
Thanks very much! I use it as my wallpaper, too, and have it up to 2560x1440. At the moment, it's only available to those supporting me on Patreon, as a little "thank you", since I try to make as much of what I'm doing as possible freely available. I feel like a wallpaper is the kinda thing people would appreciate, but it's not withholding anything that might help get people into gyro gaming :)
My Patreon is here: www.patreon.com/JibbSmart
I'm still figuring out how to use it properly, so feedback and suggestions would be great.
And of course, no pressure to support in that way 👍🏻
I've been playing codm and pubgm for some time now. and i love gyro. hope this will be new standard for upcoming pc games
Does the game even detect that you are using a controller or you are just emulating Key board and mouse input?
Just emulating keyboard and mouse in this case :)
I'm all for gyro gaming, however I think Halo is a bad example of it's potential due to its meta of controller assist being better in a lot of cases. At that point, you're pretty much using a handicap in multiplayer playing with a controller emulating a mouse and keyboard since the game was designed for controllers
While the game was designed for controllers, it'd be a very tricky thing to make a shooter better for controllers than for mouse by design. I'd wager the only reason controllers are favoured at the moment is because of the extent to which aim assist is helping controller players. And aim assist is less about achieving a design vision and more "how much do we need to help the player to make aiming with thumbsticks not suck?"
Hello! Jibb Smart! Im playing minecraft with joyshockmapper and when I open my inventory the rumble starts to shake like crazy. My question is how do I turn off rumble/vibration? What command should I write in the config? Thank you for sharing this really awesome way of gyro!
Fantastic content. People really need to know how much better gyro aiming is that stick-only aiming on console, even Sony themselves. Thanks for this vid. Subbed!
Thank you! It's wild that Sony has had this amazing controller all this time, and we're about to get to the end of the PS4 generation without any games really doing a great job with it.
Gyro Gaming You think so? There are very few games that do it, but the ones that do (Gravity Rush 2, Flower, Days Gone) all do it very well. Check them out if you haven’t already!
I shouldn't say that with such confidence since I don't have a PS4, and I'd like to check them out. Paladins works with a DualShock 4 on PC and is okay at best.
So I'm really thinking about Paladins, what I hear from PS4 players who use JSM on PC, and then what it's like on Switch, where there's Splatoon 2, Breath of the Wild, Fortnite, DOOM, Mario Odyssey, and they're all "okay" at best.
Don't get me wrong -- I'm glad more and more developers are exploring it! They just usually fall short of the potential these controllers provide, and I believe better implementations will be embraced by more players. We need good conventions on how to do gyro controls. When developers follow good conventions, it's really easy to do better than we're seeing in Paladins, Overwatch, Splatoon, etc.
Gyro Gaming Ah I see. I’m surprised to hear you say Splatoon 2 and BotW are only “okay” in Gyro aim: are the PC gyro games really that much better? Granted, the last time I really got into a gyro controlled game on PC was MGS5 w/ Steam Controller, which was phenomenal.
Excellent video man,
Thanks a bunch :)
the issue with this setup in Halo specifically, is that KBM is /worse/ than controller, due to how a) 343 has handled porting halo to pc, and b) aim assist. As you’ve explained it, JoyshockMapper converts your controller into equivalent KBM inputs, which is where the problem lies. I’ve noticed that most of your gameplay is swat and Campaign, but Halo’s main pvp modes have longer TTKs than a one shot headshot, which is where aim assist, and its benefits with tracking, really end up leaving KBM in the dust, due to the micro adjustments that the game makes for normal controller users, and the ‘balancing’ mechanics that, on controller, are a minor nuisance, and on kbm, make for sometimes unwinnable fights. Things like bullet spread and bloom, might inconvenience a controller player, but they’ll still land most of their shots, and thus more confidently push enemies thanks to bullet magnetism and reticule stickiness, aka the reticule slowing over a target that jaime griesemer mentions. On KBM, you only get bullet magnetism at best, which means you have to make those micro adjustments yourself, while a controller player doesn’t even have to touch their stick to hit you. Add to that the issue of bloom, or recoil, or random shot deviation/spread, and the kbm player is going to suffer worse for the same reward a controller player basically gets handed to them
on the other hand, if 343 and/or MS ever figure out how to properly integrate gyro aim into Halo, it will be /the/ dominant input method, at least unless they reduce aim assist massively. But for now, it seems like Halo has bigger issues to resolve before tackling gyro aim. Like fixing the existing aim assist issues, hit detection issues, and kbm aiming problems in MCC and Infinite.
Very innovative
Cheers :)
In theory it works pretty well. But I couldn't do it with joyshockmapper. The drift for it is pretty bad. So I just made my own version on steam input. The big difference between my version is that the right stick can only quickly look to left and right. Also while holding RB, the gyro is disabled and changes the right stick to have normal movement. Mainly to readjust looking up and down
Did you try calibrating the gyro in JoyShockMapper? Steam's auto calibration helps if the gyro is prone to wandering bias, but manual calibration is usually best for accuracy
@@JibbSmartGD it was a one time glitch. After closing and opening it multiple times, the drift just disappeared
As someone who is top a controller player, do you think it’s worth trying gyro if I already play extremely well with regular thumbsticks? Would I be able play like a normal controller with a little input from the gyro or is it better to have gyro be the main input for aiming instead of a thumbstick? I’m imagining using a controller with no aim assist + help from precise gyro input, is that what it’s like?
I’m really not trying to brag, but I’m not sure if I can get more accurate with a controller. But this looks so cool and if anything could help me get to another level, this has to be it.
From what I've seen, experienced controller players are usually able to ease into it. You can just use it for small adjustments at first. Maybe with some practice do some flicks that are difficult to do with a thumbstick. As you get used to it, you'll find a balance of using gyro more and more for what it's good for while still relying on stick for what it does well. You'll need to be more mindful of keeping the controller still when not trying to aim with gyro, though. If you're playing a game with an ADS button, you can make it so gyro is only active while that button/trigger is held, if you like. Lots of room to ease into it :)
Can you use this and still have analog movement?
Depends on the game. I think Halo doesn't allow mixed input. In DOOM Eternal I had Steam do the left stick, hide everything else, and do all the rest in JoyShockMapper, but since version 3 JoyShockMapper can do the analog input as well.
I see, thanks for the quick reply dude
So will I be able to use gyro aiming with my ps4 controller to play Halo Combat Evolved? I plan on getting into the halo series for the first time
You should be able to. I haven't played CE in the MCC, and haven't played Reach in a while. I heard someone was having issues, but I didn't have any.
the dual shock stick layout (ALL playstation controllers) is unusable for people who have wide hands (large thumb offset distance) and hold the controller properly. Steam controller is the only controller that fits my hands right and has easy to enable gyro support out of the box
Guys guys guys
No one tell him about the new Xboz..
He's gonna hate it
If 343 made it so that halo would natively support the steam api, then flick stick would be so much easier to impliment in all of the halo games. Especially 2 and 3. Dual wielding makes making control schemes with mouse gyro hard. Let alone flick stick
I honestly think that games supporting steam input api is just as important as gyro aiming being an option in ps5 games and switch. Not ps4. It's too late now
BTW for anyone who wants to play 2 and 3 with dual wielding, I've spent days trying to get it to work right. But I think I finally got a profile right to the best of my abilities
how did you get the visualizer at 2:41??
I made it. It's still a work in progress, but works great for my needs
I spent way too much time trying to get flick stick to really work with dual wielding in halo 2 and 3. With how it works with certain ways you interact with a button (meaning hold or tap it), it is way to hard to do.
So I just gave up and used mouse-like joystick for gyro. It's not bad. I still don't know why camera sensetivity for turrets and vehicles only has one sensetivity when using a gamepad
3:50 what are the other options, i cant find anything on the wiki, but im probably looking in the wrong place.
In games where you already have an aim button (aim down sights, draw bow, etc) you can make it so that the gyro is only on while that button is pressed.
Another option is to have the gyro disabled while using the right stick (GYRO_OFF = RIGHT_STICK) so that you can correct your controller's position without undoing the correcting you're doing with the right stick. You can also have it so that gyro is only enabled while using the right stick -- this is awkward with traditional stick aiming, but works pretty well with flick stick.
These are all detailed in JoyShockMapper's README :)
@@JibbSmartGD ah thanks man
Pff, I'm still waiting the day Microsoft allows Halo to be on a Nintendo console, don't care which one, and Nintendo surprising everyone it is Wiimote and nunchucks compatible and the true experience to play it.
Switch controller would be even better as it has the superior layout of the Xbox controller with gyro.
Yeah, I get that a lot of people like the other layout, but I'm not convinced it's actually superior. Why asymmetrical? If changing the left stick position is better, shouldn't the right stick (which is probably even more important for games like this, at least with traditional twin-stick shooting) be changed as well?
I don't mind either way, though, and I picked the DualShock 4 because PlayStation is a more direct rival to Xbox.
I do think the Switch Pro Controller is great. It doesn't have analog triggers, but the DS4's are so bad that the Switch Pro Controller is probably better anyway. But I prefer the DualShock 4's higher report rate since I play on a 144Hz monitor.
Oh, and the other reason I favour the DualShock 4 for these videos is that a lot of people don't know PlayStation controllers can do this, but have at least a vague idea that this can be done with Switch controllers.
@@JibbSmartGD Gyro Gaming Yeah I don't really mind using either layout, I just grew up using the Xbox layout so it will always be my preferred layout.
If I had to try and back it up I would say that given the player is going to be moving forward far more often than side to side having the joystick be vertically aligned with the thumb is more controllable and less likely to slip than the horizontal alignment of the Playstation. The right stick is fine where it is as it's used for looking around and the player looks side to side far more than up or down. The thumbs work better pushing and pulling so having the sticks arranged to fit that makes it a better overall setup.
Not sure I've even seen a controller that switched the right stick other than the Wii U gamepad and Wii U pro controller. If I recall correctly people didn't like it cause it messed up the face buttons.
This mostly applies to first and third person shooters. When you leave those genres it mostly becomes a crap shoot.
@@Thine_Reaper That reasoning is plausible to me 👍🏻
i wish i had a ps4 controller
How well does this work with a Dualshock 3 / Sixaxis?
Those have gyro as well.
PS3 controllers apparently only report gyro in one axis and use accelerometer for the rest, so they're just not up to the task
i downloaded the program, maybe i'm missing something or not understanding. I can't get the gyro to work and I can't get it to work like you have it in the video. What am I doing wrong?
I downloaded a Halo Reach config but the gyro won't work. Please help. Thanks!
What controller are you using? Halo Reach won't accept controller and mouse input at the same time, so if it's detecting your controller, it could be blocking your gyro input (which gets converted to mouse)
Is there any easy simple-stupid way to get this setup through MCC on Steam? I have an Xbox elite series 2, a dual shock 4, dual shock 5, and a steam controller. I want to start getting ready for the steam deck and halo infinite, which means getting good at gyro!
Absolute easiest way to do it would probably be to enable gyro controls in Steam -- go to the controller configuration menu in Steam's Big Picture Mode and you can activate gyro from there You can also set up flick stick from Steam. Xbox Elite Series 2 doesn't have gyro, but the other controllers you listed do.
Gyro aim?
[Deep breath]
*STEAM CONTROLLER TOUCH ACTIVATED GYROOOOOOO*
How did you get the 3D controller to show in the video?
I wonder if, in hindsight, this video inspired Sony's purchase of Bungie haha
does your program work with the new DualSense? cause I want to test out gyro aiming myself on Halo
Yep!
Goldeneye had 'Aim Assist' though it was called Auto Aim and was more obvious.
Shame that halo 2 and 3 can't really utilize flick stick properly because of dual wielding. Having different buttons change to what they do. It's a hassle
Hey Kevin! Could you please explain this further? I haven't tried 2 or 3 with flick stick, but I don't see a reason why they shouldn't work
@@JibbSmartGD dual wielding makes it so that the left mouse is the right weapon and right mouse is the left weapon. For controllers, dual wielding is just holding Y. It's a hassle trying to make it work on controller since you need to make dual wielding an action layer. Which doesn't work all the time. It can get confusing
why arent you using steams configurator? i just found your channel so sorry if its a faq
Hi! Steam's Configurator doesn't have flick stick (yet, although Valve is aware of it and considering implementing it), and its gyro settings aren't as good as I'd like. I also wanted to implement it myself so I can learn what it takes to make gyro controls good, rather than just pointing at another program and saying "look, can't you do it like that?" without knowing how easy or hard it is to do.
@@JibbSmartGD totaly makes sence! Thanks :)
No worries :)
@@JibbSmartGD Can't wait to use this with my DualSense and I have a Steam Controller. Gotta wean myself off that eventually, and be free from Steam Input compatibility craziness I have to deal with in non Steam Games.
@@ploidz Yeah, the DualSense looks great, and I can't wait to play with it!
Can you play in fortnite gyro on dual shock?
They haven't put it in the PlayStation version yet, but I've played a little on PC with the same tools I used to make this video. I haven't played enough to make a video, but it seems like a good idea :)
@@JibbSmartGD in pc versions is there a gyro setting?or did you do it using programs?
There's no gyro option on the PC version, last I heard. I had to use other tools like JoyShockMapper.
Fortnite has gyro aiming in its Switch version, but last time I tried it it wasn't very good. Still better than just using a stick, but it's less reliable than it should be.
How did you change the controller input?
I'm using a program I created called JoyShockMapper to convert controller input into keyboard and mouse input. It's open source and free to use -- link in the description.
Do this work with the rest of the MCC games?
I think it should work just fine with all the MCC games, but I haven't had time to play the others
All you need is a program called DS4 windows and you need ViGEmBus for this. I played halo 3 odst with it.
Nice! JoyShockMapper works with ViGEmBus now, too
Does the DS4 need to be wired or does it function via bluetooth?
Bluetooth works for some but not others. I'm working on fixing that.
I get this channel is all about promoting gyro aim, but I'd like to address some of the stick comments. It's assumed they're outright terrible, but really developers are most of what make them that way. Bungie/Halo CE is known for creating the modern aim assists, but what's never acknowledged is how terrible the thumbsticks were set up.
This is Halo CE's deadzone: i.imgur.com/VfRgoi0.png
And Reach's for relevancy: i.imgur.com/2yxCta8.png
Halo CE's deadzone was largely carried through to Halo: ODST, but even Reach's deadzone change(which has carried up through Halo 5) hardly makes it good. A large deadzone gimps making precise movements, a square deadzone makes acceleration irregular and heavily restricts diagonal movement, and the classic titles had wildly inconsistent diagonal movement. The games also force lower vertical sensitivity which makes diagonal movement more horizontally bias, making what diagonal movement you have access to even more wrong.
The Classic/Modern settings in the menu don't have anything to do with aim assist. As mentioned above/shown in the above graphs, the classic games had unnormalized diagonal acceleration which makes diagonal movement feel wildly inconsistent and overly sensitive. 343i added this option in the MCC to address the issues with the original titles. For Reach and 4 this option does little.
We can say controlling a crosshair with a stick is terrible, but when it's set up with those issues it's all but guaranteed to be the case. Instead of trying to improve the ways the sticks were handled, Bungie created the modern aim assists and called it a day. The rest of the industry followed suit implementing a myriad of different problems with their stick controls and covering it with varying levels of aim assist.
Unfortunately, some of those issues and dependence on aim assist are considered *_good things_* by some developers instead of being mistakes and blamed on controllers, and you've referenced Resistance 3's GDC video in your, "Why not just use thumbsticks" blogpost. That's probably one of the most unfortunate videos I've seen on this subject. Resistance 3 and Insomniac's games in general control poorly and is sad to see it presented as if it was helpful. They even added some, "thumbs can't move vertically" nonsense to excuse gimping vertical movement drastically.
Halo and other games could have easily functioned without aim assist if stick controls were held to a very basic standard instead of the wild west of garbage they are. Cursor navigation in RTS was another thing you brought up in that blogpost, and something that's also wildly better if the stick controls were handled well. Games like Destiny, Halo Wars and others with cursor UIs have poor cursor controls, and can be done better without the icon aim assist and with small icons with the same basic improvements. Navigating interfaces like World of Warcraft's or clicking on units in Starcraft with a stick isn't a significant issue with decent controls.
That's a wall, but I don't want this to seem like I'm against gyro implementation or overhyping sticks. Complaints against issues with implementations of the mouse or gyro quality are common, but colossal failings in stick setups are brushed off as sticks being hopelessly bad. It's just frustrating seeing such a strong stigma built around an industry's collective and continuous failed implementations.
Hi! Thanks for the details on Halo's implementations. It seemed to me that Halo was a good game for the topic of aim assist because it is Halo's legacy, even if its stick aiming isn't the best.
While I've learned more from other developers since making this video and since my blog on "Why not just use thumbsticks", I think shortcomings of Resistance 3's stick aiming don't do much to account for the shortcomings of stick aiming generally. Cross-shaped deadzones suck, and many modern games avoid them altogether, having only a circular deadzone (that can be shrunk reasonably far, too). But it's worth acknowledging developers have used cross-shaped deadzones in the past to solve a very real problem: players (especially new players) struggling with not pointing the stick exactly where they want to turn. This may not be a problem for experienced players, but it's enough of a problem for new players that some older games have options for the camera to automatically pull to the horizon over time. It's a symptom of stick aiming being difficult to learn for many people.
Games that have done away with the cross-shaped deadzone often do other things to solve this problem, like biasing the input direction towards the nearest axis. This is very useful for new players, and experienced players appear to do a great job aiming in spite of it. But I do wish they'd all provide the option to disable that bias completely so expert players can get the most out of their stick aiming.
I'm aware that in spite of games offering poor options with stick controls, some players are able to do phenomenal things with stick aiming. These players are absolutely exceptional. And there'd probably be more of these exceptional players if games would let players not just turn off aim assist, but also have full control over their deadzone, disable any directional bias, etc. But in my estimation, most players won't benefit from these options without an extraordinary amount of practice with stick aiming. And while these days, 20 years after Halo, there are hundreds of thousands or millions of players with that much practice, there are also so many new players starting out each day who don't have that practice to build on. And for these players, they really are better off with generous aim assist and their aim being pushed towards the nearest axis.
Like some other input mappers, JoyShockMapper doesn't do any of that directional warping for its stick aiming, so it's useful for those who want more direct control over their aim. Configurable circular deadzones (or no deadzone if you want!), response curve, acceleration, etc. I guess you're probably talking from experience with some other input mapper when you say that playing Starcraft with a thumbstick isn't a significant issue. So there's plenty of opportunity for players to show what's possible with stick aiming. But I think they'll usually also acknowledge that it takes a lot of work and skill to make stick aiming look comparable to mouse aiming.
I get your frustration, though, and I'm sorry if I made it sound like stick aiming is already as good as it's ever going to get. I totally get it -- a lot of people reject gyro aiming based on their experience in AAA games that have fallen so far short of what's actually possible, too.
@@JibbSmartGD
I'm not really comparing sticks to the potential of mice or gyro. There is additional difficulty using a velocity system over a 1:1 system, and you are limited to whatever sensitivity you're using in normal cases. It's just the difference between what games get and how it should be dramatically better. Most of the tracking and precise adjustments you've demonstrated with gyro in this video are well within what sticks should be offering unassisted even if the gyro flicks are beyond it.
Square deadzones aren't as common as they used to be, but circular deadzones are still far from the standard in most recent games. I've heard that defense of restricted diagonal movement, however while it helps stay perfectly horizontal/vertical, it ends up taking more effort to make diagonal corrections if you're not on the desired level. It's a trade off at best and detrimental in most other cases with any level of verticality. Much like mouse acceleration and smoothing(which have their analogues with controllers) are advocated against to maintain aiming consistency, teaching players to adapt to wrong angular movement isn't particularly helpful for improvement.
I really don't think it takes a substantial amount of time for players to become decent at aiming if they're given proper controls. Players have taken to any newly added options quickly, and there weren't any complaints I've come across in the older games that did use circular deadzones with unrestricted diagonal movement. I completely support adding aim assist as an option for accessibility, but fumbling the controls and/or requiring it to cover those issues limits how the player can grow. Even skilled console players rely on strafe-aim because there's little confidence in the controls they're given.
I've used Antimicro for M&KB emulation on most PC games, and that has options for simple circular deadzones and acceleration curves which is probably not different from your program's implementation if it offers them. I doubt one could navigate fast enough to contribute to the 200-300apm StarCraft multiplayer is known for, but navigating UI's or selecting specific units has never been an issue and console titles getting that basic quality control quality would greatly improve the UI cursors there. There is an opportunity to show what you can manage with sticks with emulators, but very few have really tried and most developers haven't been particularly responsive to feedback on it.
I'm all for games supporting whatever input players want to use and it's important that every method is implemented as good as possible. It's shame if gyro's not being implemented properly, but gyro's at least gotten a decent amount of support from players and more so as time goes on. I just throw my two cents around on this because sticks really haven't been given a chance to function well yet.
Super amp for the pc version, use to play halo3 on 360 but switched to ps4 and now I have a iMac I guess my question is can I download for Mac and can I get a download to make my PS4 controller compatible
I think, since it's Microsoft, it's unlikely to run on Mac :( JoyShockMapper, which is what I'm using to play with a PS4 controller, is Windows only, too, and you can find it here:
github.com/JibbSmart/JoyShockMapper
you could just use steam, they have ps4 controller support
You should have gotten a Steam Controller. It does this even better than a DS4 and more. This is actually the optimum way to use a SC for any 3D game where aiming is necessary.
Also, you can just use Steam and don't need another program to bind keyboard and mouse to the DS4. It's literally a feature of the Steam client controller configuration menu, and it natively supports the DS4.
It also has things like action sets, layers, and activators that you can set up on any gamepad, including the DS4.
You can also use this feature with non-Steam games. Just add a game to your library and it will work 99% of the time. Sometimes it doesn't work, but usually you can just install it in your Steam Common folder to fix the issue. Yes this works even with games from Origin or Uplay usually, as they just see your Steam/steamapps/common folder as another install directory. If that doesn't work, the fix is usually to just set up desktop bindings in the Steam Client and play that way.
Still, the Steam Controller was literally designed around this kind of play. It's much better than the DS4 for this use. The grip pads on the underside of the controller make a huge difference, the touchpads are great for the kind of aiming you're talking about, and the pads do things sticks just can't. It also has a joystick, but I recommend just setting up move on the right touchpad instead. The trick is to just set up a big enough deadzone that you can easily find the center, but still don't need to move your thumb much to move. It's easier to get used to than you'd think.
SC also has the open source Global Steam Controller for those very rare stubborn games that refuse to work even with a desktop binding and an install in the Steam/steamapps/common folder. Letting you take advantage of the Steam Controller Configuration options that programs like that don't offer with activators, layers, and action sets.
I have had a SC since they launched, and a DS4 since the PS4 was released, and have used both for PC games. I used to use the DS4 for things like twin stick shooters, but then discovered mouse region and now I never use it for PC gaming anymore because the SC simply works better for everything than a DS4 does if it is set up with a good configuration.
Steam controller is bad ass but I don't think there is anyway to do flick stick with it unfortunately
@@CrewsterEX
You don't need it. WIth the Steam client you can set up sensitivity on the touchpad independently of the gyro and accomplish effectively the same thing. Flick Stick emulates mouse flicking, which has been a thing since mouse look has existed. Of course the SC can do this.
This means your touchpad sensitivity can be set high enough that it is easy to turn 180 degrees in an instant with the gyro relegated to actual aiming at a lower sensitivity. If you just disable vertical movement and set the sensitivity properly on the touchpad. Even if it's slightly different mechanically as you use short swipes in either direction instead of a flick, it still has the exact same results in game.
You want the stick or touchpad to point you in the general direction, and use the gyro to lock on to your target with. That's not two separate motions by the way, the thing about this is that to be good at it you need to learn how to do this in tandem rather than look at it as two separate motions. It takes some getting used to, but once you get it you'll wreck 3D shooter games without the need for any aim assist at all.
On top of that, you can also use trigger dampening to easily give yourself a different sensitivity for iron sight aiming, or set up an action set on the left trigger if you want the sensitivity higher.
Plus, you can set up the gyro to activate on right pad touch, for much easier and more convenient recentering. I also find it works best to turn down vertical sensitivity on the gyro a bit as well. You want to be able to look up and down easily, but also want horizontal movement to be stronger.
I really can't see any advantage the DS4 has over the SC at all, even with Flick Stick.
What advantages does a steam controller have over a DS4 in flick stick configuration? Give me bullet points not scatterbrained essays please.
@@WarlikePrimal sorry what is flick stick? Isn't it the same type of flick people do with mice? Cause in that case the SC can obviously do that, I don't even see why that'd need explanation
@@CrackCECKer So the guy who made this video made a program called JoyShockMapper. One feature of that program is it allows you turn your right analogue stick into a "flick stick". It works like this:
ruclips.net/video/C5L_Px3dFtE/видео.html
I was just asking why he thinks the SC is better than the DS4, I couldn't extract any significant objective advantages from his comment.
R2 and L2 on the PS4 controller are absolutely awful in terms of ergonomics, which is why Steam has a native gyro aim support mechanism in place for PS4 controllers that will disable vertical movement whenever you press R2 or L2, because without that you will always involuntarily move your controller upwards, because of the angle you press the trigger in.
which is why the Switch Pro Controller is the actual good way to play games using Gyro.
the PS4 controller is an ergonomics nightmare
I shoot with R1 instead of R2 for exactly this reason. Even without gyro it's better because the triggers have to be pulled so far before they respond.
@@JibbSmartGD I never had an issue with the actual activation, but the ergonomics of the DualShock 4 specifically are just awful. even when it's not about precision using gyro aim.
I played a lot of RocketLeague on PS4, and if you constantly hold R2 to accelerate you will also push the controller up, which automatically makes you hold it down using the rest of your hand, and that over time will literally hurt your hand.
no other current gen controller has such bad ergonomics. the Xbox Controller has you push the controller towards your body and not up or down when holding down the triggers, and they are also have way less tension which gives you better precision for racing games and make it super comfortable to hold them down.
the Switch Controller is perfect for gyro aiming IMO due to its digital triggers and with it better ergonomics
I think you make a good point about the DS4 ergonomics. Reckon this will be any better with the DualSense?
There really is a lot of room for improvement with the trigger activation, too.
@@JibbSmartGD the grips look way thicker and less curved ontop, which is good, and even in their blog post they said something about the trigger angle, so I think they are aware.
I mean when even Valve was aware enough of this issue that they implemented an option to mitigate aim jerking, Sony should notice it too.
the DualSense looks freaky as hell, almost like a fake mockup you'd see in some scifi game or movie, but I like it.
I like the optimism. I hope you're right! I can't wait to get my hands on one
I read the comments under the video. I have experience creating a hardware controller, you can see on my channel. Let me also add my opinion.
Steam Controller is discontinued. There is a risk that in 5 years there will be no possibility to use SC. On SC it is not possible to play, except through the Steam Client.
I do not understand why you need a stick for the sight, if there is a gyroscope. Gyroscopes have the same sensitivity on PS4 or SC. Acceleration is necessary if you aim only with a gyroscope, so that your wrist does not fall off:) Over time, you will learn to control the acceleration. If you play at high sensitivity and make a decrease with the trigger, then this is an additional action, it is also necessary to get used to it. On consoles, it is unlikely that there will be official support for the gyroscope in shooters, especially network, because it will complicate the process of balancing players. Keyboards and mice do not have support because of this on the console in games.
JoyShockMapper not working after AMD video driver update, error "0x000007b".
Thanks for your perspective!
I think regarding balance: it kinda simplifies things as console and PC players can play together. Some console players will prefer playing without gyro, but they're in the same situation as PC players who prefer to play with a controller without gyro.
Regarding the crash - a video driver update shouldn't affect a simple console application. That's very weird. Can you create an issue on JoyShockMapper's GitHub page and we'll figure it out there? Thanks!
@@JibbSmartGD After installation dotnet-sdk-3.1.100 it worked well
I used the steam controller extensively. The problem with gyro only is that you cannot have precise aiming and a fast way to turn around at the same time, unless you use a VR headset or a laptop on your lap and on a rotating chair. In my experience the problem with acceleration, is that you can't really learn it, in the same way as you can without it.
@ Everywhere you need a balance and measure:) You need to adjust so that you can make a 180-degree turn with a quick movement. In other cases, do not make any sudden movements. I have no acceleration on the mouse, I use it on the gamepad all the time.
The dislikes show us the terrified xbots.
Does joyshock mapper cause increased input lag?
It probably adds a very small amount of input lag due to converting controller input into mouse input. I've never measured it. My guess is processing of the input would take less than 1ms, but I don't know how long it takes for virtual mouse and keyboard events to get processed.
@@JibbSmartGD thanks for the response. I thought Halo MCC PC does not allow mixing mouse and gamepad input.
JoyShockMapper converts stick inputs to keyboard inputs if you want. That's what I'm doing here :) So the stick movement isn't as nice as it would be if it was natively supported by the game.
@@JibbSmartGD rumor has it that Bungie will allow gamepad/mouse combo in the future.
Ooh, good to know! I might have to give it another look if/when they do :)
While I wouldn't ever use a gyro on a controller for an fps game, I think a gyro would be better fit for a racing game to use as a steering wheel.
Wow you're so missing out
Wish master chiefs collection was on ps4
Me too, and I don't even have a PS4
Why not use Steam input instead of joyshock mapper?
Steam input can't do flick stick, doesn't give the user as much control over things like acceleration and smoothing, and doesn't let you use the natural sensitivity scale. It's got a much better interface, though, and my hope is that they'll add these features.
But I also hope game developers embrace these features as explained on GyroWiki, and creating my own program lets me say with confidence what these controllers can do, and how hard it is to do :)
Despite what he says, acceleration should always be off. This is what any pro gamer will tell you. Even for casual play it's more a hindrance than help.
It's one more thing that you have to train your muscle memory to adjust for, even when you do it still hurts accuracy a little just by virtue of being impossible to be as consistent due to varying speed causing different results, and there is no benefit to using it to play games at all. At best if you get good at using it you're mitigating a handicap.
The same goes for mouse smoothing, it should be set to the bare minimum to avoid jitter and zero if possible, which you can easily do with the Steam Client.
The real benefit to using Joyshock is that you can use Flick Stick, which is indeed far better than the standard analog stick controls for a DS4. The more fine control over mouse acceleration and smoothing elements don't matter, as both should be off if possible anyway.
Smoothing you shouldn't need for a stick if you're using Flick Stick at all, and you might want to apply a tiny amount to the gyro settings if your cursor or reticle is being jittery. You want just enough to stabilize it and no more.
He's right that Joyshock better if you're using a DS4, absolutely. It is absolutely superior to the Steam Client for that specific gamepad. However, he is overselling some of the features a bit.
@@contrabardus For players whose hands aren't super steady, it's literally impossible to keep the aimer steady without acceleration, smoothing, or a minimum threshold.
A minimum threshold is the worst, and should always be avoided, though JSM gives players the option if they want. JSM's smoothing is relatively unique in that it only applies to low-velocity inputs. It adds no lag or imprecision to any movements above a small threshold, and of course it's optional. JSM's acceleration settings are better than you'll find in most places, letting you set a minimum velocity below which there's no acceleration, and a maximum velocity above which there's no acceleration.
You're applying things that are usually true for pros with mouse aiming to gyro aiming indiscriminately. But there are differences. Gyro aiming doesn't have pros yet.
Pros on a mouse can play with a big mousepad, but you can't increase the size of your "mousepad" with gyro, so acceleration is a good option to let you use your most effective sensitivity for precision and your most effective sensitivity for range at the same time.
It might turn out to be true that pros will play better without acceleration. For casual players, though, acceleration is helpful here. And a good rule of thumb in game development is to make the default options good for beginners, since you can count on more experienced gamers to tweak the settings to their taste.
Basically, acceleration is a useful option. Smoothing can be for some people when done well. And I try to play in all my videos with settings that first-timers can learn relatively easily.
@@JibbSmartGD Um, no. Acceleration does not help with steadying anything.
I don't get why you think that, but you're flat out wrong. Acceleration does not help with anything like that in this kind of gaming. Not on a mouse, not on a joystick, and not on a gyro.
It is useful for navigating a desktop interface, and especially for multi screen setups, but not for gaming where you need to be aiming.
By its very nature it is anti-steadying because it applies distance to the mouse based on movement speed. In no way does that do anything to help with steadying. Having it only applied within a range only mitigates the issues a little, but doesn't solve them.
It literally makes it harder to be consistent with movements because of how it works and what it does.
Smoothing is also not really helpful in any measure beyond the minimal.
Steam client does smoothing just fine if you need it. It not only has a smoothing slider, but also dampening features, vertical friction adjustment, and vertical scale sensitivity adjustment. All of which accomplish much of what smoothing does without the drawbacks. I think part of the issue is that you're looking at smoothing there as only the smoothing slider, and not regarding the other features that mitigate the need for it.
I'd also argue that the trackpad emulation works better than acceleration and accomplishes essentially the same thing, though I also don't recommend using it either and prefer it off. It's slightly better than acceleration, but still has similar drawbacks if you want to be precise.
Smoothing should only be necessary if you have a cheap mouse with a low DPI.
The Steam Controller's touchpad, the DS4 joystick, and both the DS4 and SC's gyros shouldn't need it at all. They are all sensitive enough that it should be completely unnecessary.
Neither is really helpful for gaming with the exception of smoothing if you don't have a gaming mouse and are just using a cheap mouse.
Also, if you're having trouble steadying your hands, I would question how you're holding the pad more than suggesting that you need smoothing or acceleration to fix it.
Maybe use a pillow to stabilize your arms or something, that's a much better solution than using acceleration or smoothing.
If you're having trouble pointing with the gyro, you need to turn the sensitivity up, not use acceleration. It fixes the issue you're describing without the drawbacks.
The way to adjust your gyro sensitivity is to find a place where two objects are on either side of the screen on the edges with your cursor in the middle. You should be able to quickly move back and forth between the two objects with comfortable motions.
I also think part of the problem is that you're thinking of the stick or touchpad and gyro as two separate actions.
This is not how you make the most of gyro aiming with a gamepad, Flick Stick or not.
You should be using both together, using the stick or touchpad to do bigger aiming motions and point you to the general direction of things you need to shoot, and using the gyro simultaneously to zero on the specific target. It's more like one motion than two. You need your thumb and wrists to work together to make the most of this kind of aiming.
It sounds like you've developed some bad gaming habits to me rather than you knowing something about smoothing and acceleration that I don't. I understand how both work and what they do perfectly well, and they are not helpful for games.
I stand by my earlier statements and explained in detail why mouse acceleration isn't helpful for gaming due to the nature of what it does and how that impacts muscle memory.
This applies as much to a gyro as it does to a mouse. You just can't be as consistent with acceleration just due to what it does. It's handicapping yourself to use it at all because you will never have consistent enough speed with the kind of motions you make to use a gyro, or even a thumbstick or touchpad, to be as accurate as you can without it.
The very nature of how these two features work is counterproductive for gaming. It doesn't matter how much "control" you have over how much is applied. None is absolutely best for acceleration, and smoothing should only be applied if you're having issues with mouse jitter and only as a last resort if other features like dampening or vertical sensitivity scale can't fix it. Even then, just enough to get rid of it should be applied and no more.
The advice you're giving about acceleration and smoothing is misguided. It does not help newer gamers adjust and just makes things harder to acclimate to.
It is far better to form good habits and just not use them in the first place, and if you are you should break that habit because it is not helpful, gyro or otherwise.
@@contrabardus Having a lower sensitivity helps with stability, but hurts range. Having a higher sensitivity helps range and hurts sensitivity (I think we're on the same page here, but just trying to be clear). Acceleration lets you use a sensitivity with good range (as you described, finding a sensitivity that lets you comfortably move between targets on the edge of the screen is a good one) for your medium-to-fast speed input, but REDUCE your sensitivity for your slow input, giving more precision when you need a steady hand.
I understand your concerns with having non-constant sensitivity. Working within that acceleration range will take a little more getting used to. But well-understood, well-constrained acceleration can certainly increase precision -- not by increasing your sensitivity above normal as I think you think I'm saying, but by decreasing it when it's better to have lower sens.
Have you ever tried the Steam Controller?
I tried it a long time ago, but for now I'm trying to get developers to make good use of controllers that are already standard on consoles
@@JibbSmartGD just two hours ago i begun using your flick stick with my SC. It works great aim lab!
Glad to hear it!
@@JibbSmartGD just one minor problem is that while this is enabled i lose the option to program a trackpad click action
I'd hijack the PS4 remote to Xbox one
what about a nintendo pro controller config ;o
The same config works with a Pro Controller :)
Why not just play it with a mouse and keyboard?
Part of it is comfort. You don't need a desk or something to rest a mouse on when playing with a controller. Part of it is the freedom of movement an analog stick gives you that WASD doesn't. The biggest thing, though, is I'm demonstrating the kinds of things console games could embrace and be better.
@@JibbSmartGD I very much agree, and appreciate you getting to my comment so quick.
I find that the tool you're using is really fun to play halo with, but I'm getting a lot of issues like getting used to the aiming, having to 'recenter' my gyro by aiming all the way down to sort of reset the vertical orientation. There's also the fact that restarting the calibration can interrupt the gameplay. I don't know if I trust this enough to play it with multiplayer, but it's really fun.
Have you found that it's not too tough to configure it such that these problems aren't an issue?
It does take some getting used to, but there are settings most games don't provide that can help. If you have a button that can disable the gyro while it's held, that can be really helpful for resetting your vertical orientation for example. Think about how when we use a mouse, we have to get used to lifting the mouse off the mousepad and repositioning it. If we couldn't do that, the mouse would suck for games like these. It's the same with gyro -- we need a way to disable it so we can reposition it, and it can be as simple as having it disabled while a certain button is held :) That's just one example, but I think it's a big one.
I find that I normally only have to calibrate once right at the beginning and then it's all good for the rest of the play session, but maybe not all gyros are created equal.
To answer your question, I think it's not too hard to work around most problems with gyro aiming. It's not perfect, but I think its benefits outweigh its challenges.
@@JibbSmartGD I've been playing the halo games with this controller configuration for a few days, and first off it's very fun. It feels very different, and feels like a new experience to play an FPS with. I agree that this would be a great option to people who may not have good computer mice or just prefer to hold a controller.
I do however, am unsure if I'm sacrificing my potential for performance by potentially using this control configuration primarily. I know that it takes some time to get used to it, and I'm impressed how Heroic difficulty on Halo CE is already kicking my ass, but I find that multiplayer is nearly impossible to do well in (with my skills as they are now). I also find that the one unquestionable advantage of a pad, the left stick analog movement, is not provided this way as is.
Making large movements with the right stick to flick in a certain direction can be very useful, but also disorientating. With a mouse, you move at a certain pace, and instead of darting to and from, you're able to take in a bit more info. Again, these are just my impressions. It's already really fun as opposed to thumbstick aiming, but I'm mostly just curious if I could make this my primary control scheme and perform just as well (if not maybe better?) than with a mouse. Also, the tool as it is now can sometimes inexplicably stop working, requiring me to restart it, just commenting on the tool itself.
I don't expect you to address all my concerns, but I hope you take them to mind if no one else has mentioned my particular perspective. I'm still going to have a lot of fun experimenting.
@@ThumpingThromnambular Thanks for giving it a good solid go. Halo's a great game for this kinda thing, because it's got such good singleplayer and multiplayer. Singleplayer is probably best for getting comfortable with something new. I think it's only natural for multiplayer to take some getting used to, especially if you've already been playing with controls you're already comfortable with.
I know people who'd say they can do better with flick stick + gyro than a mouse, and having seen them play I think they're probably right. For me, I think I still play a little better with a mouse. Very hard to compare with something we have so much more experience with. So I wouldn't blame you for returning to mouse for competitive reasons.
For me, flick stick was useful very quickly but sometimes disorienting. It took a while to get comfortable enough with it that I'm never disorientated by it. If you're up for spending more time with it, I'm sure you'll get there :)
Thanks for your feedback. I appreciate the thoughtful response, and I'm very interested in seeing what more people do and don't like about it. The Discord is a good place to find others experimenting not just with flick stick, but other ways to get the most out of a controller, if you're interested.
On the tool sometimes not working out of nowhere, that's unusual -- is there any more info you can give me on that? Is it frozen, or just not reading controller input anymore? Are you able to try the RECONNECT_CONTROLLERS command? What controller are you playing with, and is it wired or wireless?
gyro gyro algorithm gyro
Hi. Is gyro compatible with all game pass games?
I don't know about all of them, but I haven't had any problems. I play Gears 5 with it, for example
Use a switch pro
I have one, but usually prefer the DualShock 4 when playing at a high framerate because the Switch Pro only reports at about 67Hz
@@JibbSmartGD well that’s gay xD.
DS4 a 'sub-par' X-box controller?! Are you smoking too much of that jazz cabbage?
There are ways in which it's better (gyro, for example), but most games treat it like it has no more features than an Xbox controller. And in that regard, it's not as good as an Xbox controller. This is mainly because the triggers on a DS4 need to be pulled really far before the game can see any input from it, whereas Xbox triggers will report input at the slightest touch.
This means they need a software deadzone, but it's easy to make this adaptive and much more responsive than DS4 triggers.
@@JibbSmartGD
The game configs are moot for me, as I use Steam's settings to pretty much make everything reconfigurable.
Just having the touchpad as a tap function can do something as useful as execute an Up + RB macro to kick on command in Souls, without any chance of ever fluffing it. Heck, it's possible to bind 16 different inputs to the touchpad alone, if bound to 4 face buttons per-side, with both click and touch activation - and that's before you even get into modifiers, action layers and chord binds.
I've never had trouble with the triggers, as I set the ranges to max. Though, I played DiRT Rally (with gyro, ofc) up to Masters on it without much issue. Regardless, it's just so damn functional in comparison, my Xbone pad does nothing but gather dust.
I'll concede that the stick placement on the X is easier on the wrist, but otherwise, the DS4's face buttons feel much more high quality and comfortable to press repeatedly, than the hard and bumpy Xbox ones. Not to mention the D-Pad, which is mmmmm, perfect for retro games. I cannot stand the Xbone's tiny clicky thing.
Each to their own though, ey ;)
I 100% agree with you that the DS4 offers way more functionality :) Steam's settings are pretty good, and tools like that and JSM open up lots of possibilities that favour the DS4 over Xbox controllers. Overall, it's a way better controller than the Xbox controller.
When I say it's a "sub-par Xbox controller", I'm just saying that when you treat it like it only has the features of an Xbox controller, you'll have a worse experience than using an actually Xbox controller. When you ignore the gyro and perhaps the touchpad in some circumstances, you're left with a controller that just isn't quite as good as Xbox.
The triggers are adequate, but could be much better. Maybe I'll show this in a video some time, but Xbox controller triggers are much more sensitive to small movements than DS4 triggers. They're objectively better, even if you set the range to max in whatever software you're using, because those settings can't overcome the hardware deadzone.
The sticks are objectively much lower resolution on a DS4, but in games like this with all that aim assist, I doubt it'll make a material difference.
You make a good point about the d-pad, though -- I much prefer the DS4's d-pad, too. And I know some people even prefer the DS4 stick layout, so I'll make no judgements there.
I personally prefer the ds4 over the Xbox one controller, like the stick layout, and how the controller fits in my hand. I find in genuinely more comfortable to hold. Xbox one controller feels too big for me idk
@@duncecan3047 Fair enough :) There are very minor technical shortcomings with the DS4, but I'm a big fan of how it feels as well.
Phill Spencer brain's: how about it's flaws itself?
People take this stuff way too serious lol just get good at the game and stop trying to change the way its suppose to play 😂
@@djh8009 Do you prefer Doom with just a keyboard, no mouse, no controller?
@@JibbSmartGD I never played Doom but if I did I would use controller as I got it for console and being a console game just like Halo.
@@djh8009 Original Doom didn't have Halo controls. It was just keyboard. But I don't think improving the controls is changing the way a game is supposed to be played, so I'm all for playing Doom with a controller 👍🏻
33 Dislikes. Does not surprise me that Xbox fan boys are severely butthurt by this video and I love Xbox.
Aim assist, lame but is better that auto lock.
Ima say it rn, i think gyro sucks.
I just hate it
Why?
Honestly no offense but halo is still way better with a controller from xbox
Why is that?
Aim assist is a cheat, and its not fun.
Aim assist is a necessary need for control players, it’s not a cheat
@@THEFALCON01 Any kind of assistance is a cheat in its nature. Especially with aiming. The problem is that people would rather use ancient control scheme with assistance than play the way it was always supposed to be played.