I didn't expect such a CLEAR WINNER! Mizuno Pro 223 v Callaway Apex
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
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Just an Average Golfer giving unbiased opinions on all things golf, product tests, Golf travel vlogs and golf news!
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The grain flow forging process Mizuno uses to make their irons is second to none. It’s going to take a lot to replace my MP 20’s however the new 221, 223’s could make this happen. Looking forward to testing
The 7-4 irons in the 223s are still single-piece forged heads, Mizuno has just included the chromoly into the billet of steel. It makes the steel stronger so they can carve out a slot in the cavity back to thin out the face and get (theoretically) more flex, rebound and ball speed. 8-G is single-piece forged with the grain-flow billet of steel for a softer feel without the slot. So yes, they may feel different, but not like the "forged" multi-material clubs that only have a forged face on a cast body. In other words, both ends of the 223 set are "truly forged" just out of different kinds of steel with different configurations.
Used to play the MP5, then my pro suggested the TM770 as needed more forgiveness and distance as I near 76 yrs young. Then three months ago I traded the 770’s for even more forgivness, a mixed set of Apex 21; gap through 7, and Apex DCB; 6 through 4. Changed my life! So easy, so pure. Can shape all even though the DCB tends to be straighter by design. Don’t need a hybrid anymore as I’m carrying the 4 iron an easy 200 on short par 4’s and long par 3’s.
More birdies, more pars and love the looks. Like jewelry in my bag. It is all personal preference.
Also just fitted for new Ping 425 driver w Tensei Orange, 65 gms S shaft. Added 20-25 yards to my drive. It’s all in the fitting and in the shaft!
Thanks for your vids and Happy New Year!
Parke Schaffer in Florida
With those numbers I wouldn’t believe you’re a day over 45 😅 great stuff man!
Somewhat of a hilarious review - he is just falling for a pretty new iron and he likes the sound. Play these irons longterm on a golf course and there is a clear winner - the Apex. I have played rounds with both sets and there is literally no comparison to be made on forgiveness. The Apex blows it away. The tungsten is far more substantial, the AI face works, MOI is way higher, side spin is reduced more on the Callaway, it flies higher and longer and has a steeper descent angle. I think he actually knocked the Callaway because he thinks it looks “dated.” That is ridiculous. It looks great. On the inside this new Apex is not like the previous ones, no matter how it looks. Don’t go by this review, listen to Annika on what irons she put in her bag. The Apex checks all the boxes on what irons help lower your score. How many Tour pros play the 223, even in a long iron? How many play a full set? Right around zero.
I find your comment somewhat hilarious 😂
bought a set of APEX 21 Irons
this summer, absolutely love them, was a mizuno player for 20 yrs before the Callaway purchase
Interesting video Andy thanks.
Looking through the comments completely emphasises how we as golfers and our perception of irons differ.
I do agree with others I think the 225 is more compatible to the apex and the 223 more to the apex pro in size off set and what the irons are intended to do.
The apex pro to me is still a cavity back bjt aired much more to the player I feel the 21 design just differs but the 19 design certainly looked much more players cavity back much like the Wilson cb.
They’re all great irons in the right hands.
And I still very much enjoyed the video as always thanks Andy
Id think the 223 would fall more into the Apex Pro/T100 category than the Apex. Would be interested in seeing 225 vs Apex/T200 I think.
These are both cavity backs the Apex pro are not
@@TheAverageGolfer I'm afraid that the Apex Pro is a forged hollow design as well. The Mizuno 223 seats in between the Apex and Apex Pro in terms of loft (223 7iron is 32º, Apex 30.5º and Apex Pro 33º). It is impressive that the 223 matches the distance of the Apex with more loft, and that the feel is so much better. I'll be checking these irons soon!
I agree. The 223 would be closer to the Callaway Apex TCB, or XForged CB imo
Really cool idea to record the impact sounds specifically rather than just the normal “rattle around the room”! The Mizuno definitely has a deeper, rounder tone on impact, indicative of the softer forged metals they build into the club and the difference in the cavity backs.
Soundie filmmaker tips for good audio (if you haven’t tried them already): 1. Set the mic 45-degrees above the impact zone (tilted down). 2. Adjust distance from 6-12 inches until you get the blend of tones that you feel is representative. 3. Adjust the input recording level to avoid some of the slight “peaking” heard at impact (more noticeable in the Callaway).
Great job and would love for you to do more of this in the future!
I finally got fitted and went with the apex21s. Ive tried many clubs in the last 3 years and I've never played better until i got these. Distance and accuracy are spot on. Yes theres more quiet and softer clubs out there but for me Ive never played better. Played a tough course here locally and shot my best ever. About 10 stokes better.
They are awesome irons, Callaway simply makes the best irons. Nothing comes close!
I played forged mizuo irons and their forged hybrids for 12 years. As a mid handicap, they didn't help me on mishits or poor swings, but they felt so good when hit correctly. These 223's and 225's have got me thinking I might go mizuno again.
Forged hybrids?
@@Cornwall1888 Yeah. Mizuno Tzoid fli hi hybrids were grain flow forged many years back. I have 18, 21 and 24 degree with graphite shafts still in my bag.
@@curtchaffee I see, i’m currently using the lovely blue JPX 900 hybrids, mp53 irons, t20 wedges and about to replace my mizuno putter with an m craft, everything is chrome, love mizuno
I have the 921 forged. And I adore those irons. So much performance, feels, and looks in those. I would only imagine the 223 would just be a slight refinement of those irons.
No doubt about it Mizuno have upped their game with their new 221, 223 & 225 Irons, each set looks the Dogs danglers and performs as their target player would want/expect.
I suspect that Mizuno made the transition in material at 7 Iron because of YT launch monitor comparisons. In an ideal world, it would be nice if they gave players a choice of either transitioning at 6 or 7, but the additional tooling costs might have been prohibitive.
As soon as I come out of my winter hibernation, I'm really looking forward to hitting the 223's though I fully expect that the 225's would be better suited to my game.
I have the JPX 900 Forged irons which I purchased back in 2018. I can't believe they will be 4 years old for me in May. The 223 and the 225's I will have to try. Nothing feels like a Mizuno for sure. I really wanted Miura's back in 2018 and the feel was very similar to me for half the price. That was a no brainer. Happy New Year Andy.
Andy, bought the Apex in the Spring. Had a hole out from the fairway for a 2 on a par 4 with an 8 iron. Ages since i've had one of those.
Had my second ever hole-in-one. And shot the lowest round of my life with a 70. Previous low round was 73. Not bad for a 9-10 handicapper. Now down to 8.
I think the Apex will do.. 😏
both amazing! but i agree totally on sound, apex for me gave me decent feel but rather clicky and techy. im a 17-18 hdcp so these are probably put of my wheelhouse but id choose 223, wishing leftys got the forged option or 225.
And me
I’ve owned Apex/Apex Pros back in 2016 and they were great clubs…I’ve also owned Mizuno MPs (69/59 combo set) and absolutely loved those too. I wish Mizuno would make that middle club in the MP series look more like the other two…I don’t find it a very attractive club compared to the 221 or 225. It looks more like it should be with the JPX series of irons…not sure why they did that. If they could make 225 look like the 221, why couldn’t they do that with the 223?
My HC was lowest with the MP32’s. I then changed to another newer Mizuno. One of the older guys in my club who was a 2 HC in his prime, looked at the new clubs, and he said “Mizuno, they’re hard to hit!” I never did master the second set of Mizuno’s , I have played Callaway irons ever since, woods and hybrids. My HC is a little higher now, after left shoulder surgery, PRP twice in my right shoulder, bad right knee and older bones, there are still flashes of brilliance and some birdies that keep me going.
Good review And, very much like you, I like the old school look, but need a little help now the years are creeping on! The Apex is firmly on my radar....I like the idea I can ‘combo’ the set with the ‘Pro’ from the 8 iron down. Had Titliest AP2’s in the bag for the last 6 years! I like what I was brought up on as a Lad in the 70’s, blades, little off-set and that forged soft feel.
Golf is getting harder again now I’m approaching 60, I creak everywhere nowadays matey. 🤣
I fancy these maybe the very last set of irons I buy and I don’t want to make a big mistake. This is why a channel like yours is so invaluable to average golfers like me...thanks for all your efforts over the years buddy.
Regards,
Dazza. 🇬🇧
Interesting video Andy, although these 2 irons are in totally different categories. The Apex is more like a JPX Forged whereas for a true comparison you should have been comparing against an Apex Pro or even a TCB
I think the 225 would be a good comparison to the apex as the lofts are similar as well as the size. The 223 is more Apex pro like.
Strange comparison MIzuno 223 "Elite Player Cavity" vs Callaway Apex standard model (Not even PRO) ????
Great video Andy. In your opinion where does this Mizuno 223 sit in terms of other clubs in the Mizuno JPX range ? Hot metal Pro or the 921 Forged. Cheers Chris
A bit late but just picked up the 223 and absolutely loved them tonight at the driving range
I believe the Chromoly are forged. Forging is a process; does not refer to the material being forged. I believe the JPX 921 forged are forged Chromoly. I could be wrong, and if so , someone will correct me. So the Mizuno is in fact forged through the set, but the metal that is being forged is what changes.. Shafts do matter as well on feel and sound as well as performance. A very boardy shaft is likely to have a different sound when connected to the same head than will a soft tipped shaft. You would serve your audience a bit better if you just paid a bit more attention to the shafts when comparing irons or woods, especially as they tend to differ dramatically with regard to their performance parameters. So, for example, like an increasing number of PGA players, I play MMT graphite in my irons -- maybe a mistake for me -- but they perform much more like a steel shaft viz: loading pattern and ball flight, then do KBS graphite shafts of the exact same weight. That said, I am not wild about the look of the Apex, but am very impressed with look of all the Mizunos in the new range and the Apex Pro.
I have Mizuno 919 forged irons and don't think I would buy any other make of irons going forward. In saying that I do like the look of Srixon irons and I hear the feel great as well. Maybe need to give them a hit. Don't tell the boss though (Mrs). Another great video by the way 👍
Wouldn’t the 223 and Apex Pro be a better comparison? Then 225 and Apex.
yes. i know at least one guy on the pga tour gaming the 223’s but nobody gaming there apex
Great comparison thanks Andy, totally agree when it gets this close it come down to feel and looks. A question though does the Apex pro not comparable closer to the 233’s? Just wondering as I am tempted to change from my M5’s… Thanks
What about prices ? The average price for semi great iron sets are way over $1500.00. A decent driver $500.00 or worse $700.00 or more for the latest. Wedges $125.00 to $200.00 per. Putter over $200.00 for sure. The average in your site must be about your game not the financial capabilities of the watchers. If you want the sport to thrive again for everybody who love the sport and not dying in an complete elite indifference, it moste be made available to the average folk again.
Still having fun with my mizuno t zoids - beautiful quiet sound on contact and buttery smooth feel for half the price of one new club!
I think you have great points there. During the Tiger era, I thought that the golf industry wanted more people to pick up the game. Once they picked up a good swath of the public, prices of anything golf, have skyrocketed. $1500+ for set of irons is insane. $5-600 drivers are insane. $50+ for a box of balls is insane. There’s got to be a point where people just say no.
For me, I save money by using older equipment, and I play at a substandard course that gets a ton of play. No course maintenance is done by players during rounds (fixing ball marks, etc) New golfers apparently aren’t taught anything about etiquette at all. I liked it a lot better back in the 80’s when very few people played relative to population. Those that played understood the rules and etiquette. They just didn’t run out with a 12 pack and hit balls all over the course. The courses were on smaller properties where you could walk the course. Most course nowadays, you are almost forced to use a cart. My course is a 8+ mile walk. Sometimes a half mile between holes. The game has changed for the worse, and it’s not sustainable. It’ll become an elitist sport again very soon because most cities don’t want to spend money on a public course, so you end up with a bunch of CCs. Anyhoo…..
Thanks again! I’d like to point out that the shaft makes a lot of the feel & sound! Did you have the same shaft in both clubs?
As always, excellent comparison review!
Great review Andy! Im down to 921 Hot Metals PRO vs 21 Apex, how do those compare in overall forgiveness, distance, spin, feel? Cheers!
A definitive review - good stuff
Good review. Sounds like you would prefer the 221 all forged clubs for feel and sound. By the way, a pity to see how many conifer trees are dying along the last fairway. Is that from infestation by Asian pine bark beetles? We are losing thousands here in the US east coast.
Maybe clip your outdoor mic on your hat for those swings. Jacket and cloth swooshing blocking impact sound.
Great review...Both irons and models are very good, both the Callaway Apex half lofts just turn me off...Seems to me that the making of a half loft is harder to get just right...But that is my view...Thanks...
Great video as always. Any chance of doing a Mizuno 225 against the T200s, the Srixon ZX5s or better yet the P790s?
andy.
for 2022 im considering a few irons that i probably dont fit into but its almost an i dont care type of mindset
im an 18-20 hdcp score 88-92 most rounds and im thinking seriously about mizuno pro 223. also gen 3 0311 p irons
which would you say im better suited for? and do gen 3 0311p irons feel better than the mizunos? or should i completely scrap it sll and just go s more forgiving route?
I think the GEN03s are probably closer to the 225s in terms of size first of all. Are you able to try both irons? That would be the best route but I would consider the 225s in the mix also
@@TheAverageGolfer
being left handed rules out 225
but as someone who just wants good feel and looks but still preforms halfway decent, im not sure is 223 is the route.
ill have to go em both a proper go
The Apex21’s are awesome clubs. I’ll put them in the bag over Mizuno all day
Have you tried the 223’s?
$100 to the first golf RUclipsr who can get through a review without using the phrase "ticks a lot of boxes."
I bouht my mizunos 12years ago ill never buy another brand of irions ever again mizuno are perfect
Love the videos, but if you are going to focus on the sound of the clubs I think you may need to re-think the sound recording on course? All we can really hear is the sound your clothing makes.
Great video as always. Off topic, what brand and model of mat is in that studio?
Even at the range, the 223’s sounded forged to me. Much softer sound, which I also prefer, but not the price.
I don’t really get this video. I would consider the Apex to be basically a GI iron. The 223 is somewhere between a players CB iron and a Players Distance iron. Apex Pro vs 225 would have been a good comparison video but IMO these two clubs are almost 2 categories apart.
The part of the video where you show the distance in sound between the 9iron and 7iron of the 223 was very interesting though.
The unique sound of Mizuno. Best forged iron in my opinion.
Great review.... can you possibly compare the 223 to the Srixon ZX7 ??? Thank you
I’m gaming the MP20 HMB irons and I don’t think there’s going to be a lot in it from these to the 223 or 225. The feel is great but if I look at the cost to upgrade I think it would be at least £500 and I wouldn’t get enough bang for the buck.
Not hit the 22x series yet but when I tested the jpx921 I wasnt a fan of the chromoly feel - felt harsh by mizuno standard.
The point about the split 223 set is interesting - to my mind there is very little change in muscleback style forged short irons so why would you pay for new clubs that dont give you anything different.
Using THX certified speakers with my computer, and indoors the 7-irons have no discernible difference and the 9-irons very slight difference. You have the mike on your clothing on course, so the sound of your clothing rustling as you swing makes any objective evaluation impossible.
If you look closely the mic is on the floor when we record the strikes 👍
@@TheAverageGolfer You stated in your video that the mic is on the floor in the hitting booth, and that enables one to listen to the strikes. But on course, I can only assume that the mic is on your clothing as the rustle of clothing is so overpowering no objective evaluation of the club's sound is possible. I edited my first comment as I did not make clear that the problem was when hitting when out on the course (not indoors).
Yes correct very different outside and not intended for you to analyse sound, unfortunately relied on my opinion.
How do they compare to your recent review of the PXG irons?
So the Mizuno looked, sounded and felt better? Im shocked! Shocked I tell ya! Next can we have 11 min video to tell everyone that 2+2=4?
I am excited to test 9 iron. However, I would of rather you compared the callaway apex cb
Never see anyone compare these new Mizunos to the Taylormade P770’s which is the better version of the P series. In my humble opinion they are better than the Apex, T-100/T-200s.
What do you play off Brother? What is the lowest you have gotten down to?
Have you done a comparison video using 7 iron and 7 hybrid ?
I didn't have to make a "compromise" at all! I just went with the Tour Edge Exotics C721 irons and that was it!
Mizuno 223 vs PXG Gen 5 P. Which are you choosing?
The 223 is more comparable to the Apex Pro. Apex standard is more JPX range?
How come you haven’t been filming in your normal studio/hitting bay?
How do the different face materials of the Mizuno effect gapping?
isn't the 225 more forgiving than the 223 or trivial difference?
One is a players distance iron. And the mizuno is a players cavity. Totally opposite clubs
Why have you not done your testing in your test bay recently ? Mizuno do look the business !
How much better are they than the PXG 0211's??
I'm looking for a new set of clubs and was thinking about the apex but now I'm leaning towards the 223.
Try both, each perform well
They have changed the name of the steel to sound unique for them. That Chromoly is a gobbled up, made up name of a standard name. Any non stainless gun barrel is made of, now get this...... Chrome Moly steel. Now you shove those two together into one word and you have Chromoly, which is really Chrome Moly steel. Chrome moly has been around since the 1600’s.
Steve, great information. Thanks.
Correct. Gun barrels feature chrome moly steel because the steel is treated with molybdenum (and vanadium) to make it last longer under stress. Same concept here, seems a lot of that going on these days when I saw Cobra's MIM irons, which in my mind is a fancy was of saying cast.
I think Mizuno should have left the 7 and up alone. If someone wanted more forgiveness in their longer irons they could have just comboed with the 225s.
The 7 irons sounded almost identical…I could definitely tell the difference between the 9 irons…the Apex had a slighter higher pitch in there…Someone did a test (not sure how scientific) and had people hit different irons but with noise cancelling headphones on so they couldn’t hear them…and they couldn’t determine between a forged and cast club, concluding that feel is more about the sound then actually feel…like I said, not sure how scientific it was…I’ll still hold onto the conclusion that nothing feels (sounds?) like a Mizuno!!!!!! But the Apex did we well for years…
Next soundcheck please "without" the loud jacket🙉...😉
The mic is on the floor Barney so not sure what your picking up from the jacket??
@@TheAverageGolfer Have a listen. Your gilette makes a really loud noise, due to the type of material.
Anton M do you mean when our in the course?
@@TheAverageGolfer
Listen yourself🤷🏻♂️...like a truck, that peppels discharges🤣
(Hope my translater was wright🙈)
@@TheAverageGolfer Yes
For me the sound and feel on my irons is great when I hit them pure. Sound and fell is clunky when I don't hit them pure. I don't think any iron would feel and sound great on a bad strike. I would think for me anyway the most forgiving and longest irons would be the best. Point being hit them pure sound and feel great doesn't matter which iron I hit. Super senior 12 handicap.
all the irons sound virtually identical through my speakers.
At the range there’s more sound coming from his jacket rather than the club 🤦🏽♂️🤣.. but I guess if his opinion matters on the sound then I suppose that’s that
I still can't find a better set of iron's than my Wilson staff fg51 tour blades!
Mizuno Pro 225 mmm $200+ per club yikes
Don’t think these irons are comparable
Why, they’re both players forged irons… same category
You been drinking the Mizuno coolaid .😂sounds the same maybe to much reverb on your recording. Maybe put a wind cover over the mic 🎤
Trust me a huge difference on the shorter irons 👍
Yes sir I have .I don’t play either one of them. In my opinion They feel the same no difference at all.but I found the Apex21’s a better club overall in performance .
These irons arnt remotely similar in profile
much longer blade length on the mizunos!
I would have chosen the dual cavity backed beefy Mizuno
Just got my 21 apex in, they are extremely forgiving
They are a super set of irons
New channel name - The Half Decent Golfer
Which apex
There are Apex Pro, Apex DCB and these…….Alex standard??
If you want the same forged feel as the 9 iron throughout, wouldn't you just buy a set of 221's? 🤣🤣🤣
Even the Miz 7I sounded better & not even close with the 9I - Mizuno all day…
Can you do the 225 and the apex pro please Andy