The way this guy explained I would haven fallen asleep in the past… changing myself , this is my topic of interest. Dude more enthusiasm to make sleepy once to wake up and listen. Anyway good battery technology.
Hello, do you know how the cells are balancing? Is it active or positive balancing ? And do you have the thought about the logic of balancing, is it a constant or top balancing (just at the top of the charging curve of lfp) ?
LFP patents expire in 2022 in the US. Chinese companies were given the patents for free and everyone else had pay a license fee. That is why almost all of the LFP cells are presently made in China. Energy density of LFP is adequate for energy storage and many electric cars. LFP will likely become the most common chemistry for cars in the near future. Nickle will be reserved for premium and high performance vehicles.
Each blade is made up of multiple cells. They're in parallel, not in series. You add the voltage in series, but the voltage of a single blade is sitting at the normal 3.2 V for LFP cells. Either it's one long prismatic tape (one big cell), each layer is a separate cell, or each layer is multiple cells. If there are more than one cell in each blade, then they're paralleled; you add the amps, not the voltages. If the blade was just one really big cell, then it would be one continuous foil for each electrode, and the nail would complete the circuit, thus causing the entire cell to short. We know that didn't happen because it didn't explode, it didn't get real hot, and most important of all, the voltage didn't drop to zero. If the blade was a cell per layer, then you would still short out every cell if you drove a nail through it. It doesn't matter where the nails are located, it would connect the foils and short every part of the cell. We know that both of the above cases are wrong because there was a fairly quick loss of the battery's voltage, then the voltage drop stopped. Somehow the short was disconnected from the majority of the battery. However, if there are multiple smaller cells per layer, say 10-20 cells per layer, then driving a nail straight down through the battery would only short out 1 cell per layer. If there are 20 layers, it would short out 20 cells.... of the 200 - 400 cells in the battery... or between 5% and 10% of the battery. Definitely safer than shorting out 100% of the battery. Shorting a cell or multiple cells would cause those cells' voltage to plunge, and cells in parallel of unequal voltage will cause the higher voltage cells to charge the lower voltage cells, which is shorted out, so it would almost be like shorting the entire battery. UNLESS you can disconnect the shorted cells. How do you connect hundreds of cells in parallel and disconnect one that's shorted out? Simply, you connect all the anodes to a bus bar, and all of the cathodes to a different bus bar using tiny wires that serves as a fuse in case the current running across it gets too high. So, one cell per layer shorts, all of the other cells attempt to charge it, pushing high current through it, and the fuse breaks. You've now disconnected the 20 cells that the nail was driven through, stopping the entire pack from shorting out. The battery voltage drops when those other cells try to charge the shorted cells, there's a bit of heat generated, then the voltage stops dropping and heat stops being produced. The connections have been severed. Watch the BYD Blade production facility video. At about the 14 second mark, you'll see some rolls. Each roll looks like white paper with little dark squares maybe 6 centimeters in width and 10 centimeters high, and they're spaced about every 5-10 mm apart. Seems like the dark squares are either the cathode/anode material, or the current collector. Line them up and sandwich an electrode separator between them, and voila, you have 10-20 cells per layer. You just need to run a bus foil along side them and connect each cell to the bus. That could be done by either placing a tiny wire between the cell and bus line, or by printing a tiny metal wire between the two. I can't imagine this manufacturing process would be all the complicated or expensive to setup. Voila... blade battery.
Not an expert by any means but the Ultium batteries look more impressive. Size is 24X4X.4, so similar form factor, but they can be stacked in different ways. More energy and power density. Lower fire and puncture risk -- and reduction in cost -- with the substitution of aluminum for cobalt. Less degradation than cobalt chemistries. At the pack level, the modules can switch between serial and parallel setups, allowing faster charging. Plus the pack is managed wirelessly and at the module level, allowing replacement of a defective cell/module.
y u said lower fire and puncture risk instead of NO fire and puncture risk? lower mean still there’s still risk. oh i m not battery expert. just curious u used the words carefully but still has risk but lower
What I realize through this video is that once a battery is penetrated, the area of penetration will start producing heat and as more areas get penetrated more heat will be generating within the battery. This will continue to degrade battery performance and eventually leads to more heat in the battery. It seems like this can accelerate really fast so I think it’s difficult to determine how a battery will perform in its lifetime from just a lab test with just a few layers of cells.
Nail Penetration was originated to cover shorts by inner particles. Panasonic consumer cells catched fire bake in the 2000‘s and hence this test was developed. Despite that, the test is pretty controversial regarding this failure mechanism.
hu. So coolant assisting or accelerating battery fire OR coolant being used TO STOP possible battery chemistry reactions. Silicon in the battery creation.
Obvious and nitpicking conclusion. Of course one can’t put all one’s money on the Blade battery and there will be further improvements in the future. But what’s real is that the Blade battery is the safest out there out of all the volume Li batteries out there. Find another Li battery that won’t catch fire with even the smallest penetration test. This is the benchmark in safety for 2021 and likely 2022 and a few years to come, that’s all.
I gave this a like, but only with reservations. Whiteboards SUCK. But I put it in perspective: There are so many other presentation techniques that are truly abominable, so I don't want to dilute my down-thumbs by using them for small potatoes like whiteboards. (-;
BYD blade cell will offer minimal contribution to vehicle chassis structural rigidity. Tesla 4680s will be permanently embedded in epoxies. Think AL soda cans, it has no strength unless the thin walls are bonded with adjacent cans for sheer strength. Removable cells must have built-in allowances for manufacturing tolerance/replacement. No cell-to-cell sheer strength as structure compared to 4680. (btw 4680 just a form factor, same for NNNN)
If BYD blade is just a matter of configuration from short box to very long box, how can this advantage last? How can there be a patent on shape? Why haven't all other battery maker change their shape to add structural function to their batteries? BYD must have changed the LFP chemistry slightly and improved the vermiculite somehow. Some company in China probably has probably already taken apart a blade battery from an EV that was in an accident and reverse engineered it. Soon that knowledge will be widespread. China can't enforce patents because it is always stealing trade secrets and technology from other countries' companies.
My reservations are: MNC statistically caused fire in entire EV car saga including Tesla. LFP? Plus batteries chemistry explain it that way. Need more quantifiable data to go against. Safety, one can make their assumptions to challenge on batteries structures whole day long but I see no regulators or persons including Musk and batteries expert comes out to offer a better testing procedures to ensure safety of batteries created from either chemical or mechanical (accident) failure. Please do not just challenge some one who offer a repeatable test, offer your own test or concept that would apply to all types of chemistry and structure will make your assumptions or argument more sounds Structural claims, for me it is simple go to car crush test for the car with same batteries capacity and similar car weight. For a consumer safety comes from using current regulatory procedures would be fine as we have data. The other point is more mileage for same size of batteries which in Theory the lesser weight/ kwhr will offer more (I understand that software also have great impact) I do not pro either BYD or Tesla. But BYD is world number one electric busses and have majority of full EV taxi in China over past 10 years plus world # 1 owner of charging station which means they produce EV mobility unit not less than Tesla. Plus world #4 batteries supplier. This means they have more than 20 years of experience in both EV mobility and batteries. I am looking for more solid explanation or evidence either from you tuber of audience that a speculative assumptions. BTW, I give credit to presenter even he have difficulty to explain his thought
Thank you for such a clear presentation understandable for we non-technological but interested types.
Great explanation 👍
I'm from Electrical engineering and very interested to connect with EV
The way this guy explained I would haven fallen asleep in the past… changing myself , this is my topic of interest. Dude more enthusiasm to make sleepy once to wake up and listen. Anyway good battery technology.
Hello, do you know how the cells are balancing? Is it active or positive balancing ? And do you have the thought about the logic of balancing, is it a constant or top balancing (just at the top of the charging curve of lfp) ?
LFP patents expire in 2022 in the US. Chinese companies were given the patents for free and everyone else had pay a license fee. That is why almost all of the LFP cells are presently made in China. Energy density of LFP is adequate for energy storage and many electric cars. LFP will likely become the most common chemistry for cars in the near future. Nickle will be reserved for premium and high performance vehicles.
Each blade is made up of multiple cells. They're in parallel, not in series. You add the voltage in series, but the voltage of a single blade is sitting at the normal 3.2 V for LFP cells. Either it's one long prismatic tape (one big cell), each layer is a separate cell, or each layer is multiple cells. If there are more than one cell in each blade, then they're paralleled; you add the amps, not the voltages.
If the blade was just one really big cell, then it would be one continuous foil for each electrode, and the nail would complete the circuit, thus causing the entire cell to short. We know that didn't happen because it didn't explode, it didn't get real hot, and most important of all, the voltage didn't drop to zero.
If the blade was a cell per layer, then you would still short out every cell if you drove a nail through it. It doesn't matter where the nails are located, it would connect the foils and short every part of the cell.
We know that both of the above cases are wrong because there was a fairly quick loss of the battery's voltage, then the voltage drop stopped. Somehow the short was disconnected from the majority of the battery.
However, if there are multiple smaller cells per layer, say 10-20 cells per layer, then driving a nail straight down through the battery would only short out 1 cell per layer. If there are 20 layers, it would short out 20 cells.... of the 200 - 400 cells in the battery... or between 5% and 10% of the battery. Definitely safer than shorting out 100% of the battery.
Shorting a cell or multiple cells would cause those cells' voltage to plunge, and cells in parallel of unequal voltage will cause the higher voltage cells to charge the lower voltage cells, which is shorted out, so it would almost be like shorting the entire battery. UNLESS you can disconnect the shorted cells. How do you connect hundreds of cells in parallel and disconnect one that's shorted out? Simply, you connect all the anodes to a bus bar, and all of the cathodes to a different bus bar using tiny wires that serves as a fuse in case the current running across it gets too high. So, one cell per layer shorts, all of the other cells attempt to charge it, pushing high current through it, and the fuse breaks. You've now disconnected the 20 cells that the nail was driven through, stopping the entire pack from shorting out. The battery voltage drops when those other cells try to charge the shorted cells, there's a bit of heat generated, then the voltage stops dropping and heat stops being produced. The connections have been severed.
Watch the BYD Blade production facility video. At about the 14 second mark, you'll see some rolls. Each roll looks like white paper with little dark squares maybe 6 centimeters in width and 10 centimeters high, and they're spaced about every 5-10 mm apart. Seems like the dark squares are either the cathode/anode material, or the current collector. Line them up and sandwich an electrode separator between them, and voila, you have 10-20 cells per layer. You just need to run a bus foil along side them and connect each cell to the bus. That could be done by either placing a tiny wire between the cell and bus line, or by printing a tiny metal wire between the two. I can't imagine this manufacturing process would be all the complicated or expensive to setup.
Voila... blade battery.
Can you break down Hyliions LTO Toshiba cells in the ERX semi application.
It’s amazing how much electric vehicles have evolved in the last decade. To be they didn’t continuously evolve it since their inception 150 years ago.
Excellent presentation! Thanks for sharing!
thanks
During thermal runaway event, where does the oxygen come from in an NMC cell?
Very good
hi Akshay. I'll watch again but do they need cooling if i put them into an ev.
Thanks John
Can the blade battery be replaced by just the cell/blade that goes bad?
Not an expert by any means but the Ultium batteries look more impressive. Size is 24X4X.4, so similar form factor, but they can be stacked in different ways. More energy and power density. Lower fire and puncture risk -- and reduction in cost -- with the substitution of aluminum for cobalt. Less degradation than cobalt chemistries. At the pack level, the modules can switch between serial and parallel setups, allowing faster charging. Plus the pack is managed wirelessly and at the module level, allowing replacement of a defective cell/module.
y u said lower fire and puncture risk instead of NO fire and puncture risk? lower mean still there’s still risk.
oh i m not battery expert. just curious u used the words carefully but still has risk but lower
Thank you for your patience to explain
you missed surface to volume ratio advantage at the cell level for heat transfer
@cresbydotcom wrong ideal geometry to reduce heat transfer is short fat cylinders- tesla effed up chasing packaging
Can you please make video on desten's new battery as well
Does BYD LFP battery (BLADE) in ATTO3 have LIQUID COOLING?
What I realize through this video is that once a battery is penetrated, the area of penetration will start producing heat and as more areas get penetrated more heat will be generating within the battery. This will continue to degrade battery performance and eventually leads to more heat in the battery. It seems like this can accelerate really fast so I think it’s difficult to determine how a battery will perform in its lifetime from just a lab test with just a few layers of cells.
Nail Penetration was originated to cover shorts by inner particles. Panasonic consumer cells catched fire bake in the 2000‘s and hence this test was developed. Despite that, the test is pretty controversial regarding this failure mechanism.
is the thermal management system able to cool and heat the battery during charging and driving?
hu. So coolant assisting or accelerating battery fire OR coolant being used TO STOP possible battery chemistry reactions. Silicon in the battery creation.
how much do the BYD blade cells cost . How many would I need to replace the battery on my 2011 Nissan Leaf .
$42each on alibaba. What pack voltage do you need?
Nice clear presentation.
Very well done
Obvious and nitpicking conclusion. Of course one can’t put all one’s money on the Blade battery and there will be further improvements in the future. But what’s real is that the Blade battery is the safest out there out of all the volume Li batteries out there. Find another Li battery that won’t catch fire with even the smallest penetration test. This is the benchmark in safety for 2021 and likely 2022 and a few years to come, that’s all.
I gave this a like, but only with reservations. Whiteboards SUCK. But I put it in perspective: There are so many other presentation techniques that are truly abominable, so I don't want to dilute my down-thumbs by using them for small potatoes like whiteboards. (-;
BYD blade cell will offer minimal contribution to vehicle chassis structural rigidity. Tesla 4680s will be permanently embedded in epoxies. Think AL soda cans, it has no strength unless the thin walls are bonded with adjacent cans for sheer strength. Removable cells must have built-in allowances for manufacturing tolerance/replacement. No cell-to-cell sheer strength as structure compared to 4680. (btw 4680 just a form factor, same for NNNN)
so this is just an educational guess how byd blade battery work? ok
watch 2x speed
If BYD blade is just a matter of configuration from short box to very long box, how can this advantage last? How can there be a patent on shape? Why haven't all other battery maker change their shape to add structural function to their batteries? BYD must have changed the LFP chemistry slightly and improved the vermiculite somehow. Some company in China probably has probably already taken apart a blade battery from an EV that was in an accident and reverse engineered it. Soon that knowledge will be widespread. China can't enforce patents because it is always stealing trade secrets and technology from other countries' companies.
Next time wear a proper microphone. Your audio is pretty average.
...
My reservations are: MNC statistically caused fire in entire EV car saga including Tesla. LFP? Plus batteries chemistry explain it that way. Need more quantifiable data to go against.
Safety, one can make their assumptions to challenge on batteries structures whole day long but I see no regulators or persons including Musk and batteries expert comes out to offer a better testing procedures to ensure safety of batteries created from either chemical or mechanical (accident) failure. Please do not just challenge some one who offer a repeatable test, offer your own test or concept that would apply to all types of chemistry and structure will make your assumptions or argument more sounds
Structural claims, for me it is simple go to car crush test for the car with same batteries capacity and similar car weight. For a consumer safety comes from using current regulatory procedures would be fine as we have data. The other point is more mileage for same size of batteries which in Theory the lesser weight/ kwhr will offer more (I understand that software also have great impact)
I do not pro either BYD or Tesla. But BYD is world number one electric busses and have majority of full EV taxi in China over past 10 years plus world # 1 owner of charging station which means they produce EV mobility unit not less than Tesla. Plus world #4 batteries supplier. This means they have more than 20 years of experience in both EV mobility and batteries. I am looking for more solid explanation or evidence either from you tuber of audience that a speculative assumptions.
BTW, I give credit to presenter even he have difficulty to explain his thought
M
so slooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow
👍