INFORMATION: I stupidly forgot a key detail, which is the cells are thinner than usual, this means the surface area per volume of the cell is higher, and heat from the centre of the cell can escape quicker. Sorry for any confusion!
Which country does not depend on fossil fuel ? Please elaborate. Furthermore, China is actively developing large scale non-fossil-fuel power generation facilities, including solar, wind, hydro-electric, nuclear and geothermal. It is unfortunate for you to include your anti-China bias in an otherwise excellent report on the advantage of new type of lithium battery.
@@clocktower1164 It's not anti china is factual. Most of the vid is pro hina. Re power, china and coal is a problem. The same thing should be said of America I though. There are countries with much much higher renewables percentage.
Are you saying each nation can emit only the same amount? 10 million population and 1.4 billion population? Check per capita emission. The US is the largest polluter.
@@monkeysezbegood Since you are the one who claims _"There are countries with much much higher renewables percentage"_ would you kindly provide us with a list of countries that have *"much higher renewables percentage"* than that of China ? We will be awaiting for your answer, and please, *_don't disappoint us_*_ !_
@@clocktower1164 A 1 minute google will give you some answers. Admittedly smaller population places. I am positive China will accelerate it's transition and be a leader.
I’m glad to see china starting to come up with innovations in the field of sustainability. When I went to china it was amazing how common electric cars and scooters are, it’s not an “elite” thing for the rich, they all use it. I’m sure we will see more innovations from them soon.
@@Anomize23 "They needed it badly" sooooo its ok if these funky new batteries never make it to the west right? oh like because Chinas making ALL of the pollution for itself? lol ok i get the western propaganda youve been fed mate.... you do realise all of the stuff youre using is made in China? The worlds factory??? sound familiar? you cant have China do all the dirty work and then at the same time blame them because of pollution lol while the west sit smugly and snugly denying global warming exists and then accusing china of inventing wind? LOL
Yes. The small cylindrical design of the existing batteries reflects what they were intended for, which is for small, handheld consumer electronics. For the mass market of cellphones, a flat battery was more appropriate, and because of economy of scale, the flattened battery was practical to produce. For electric vehicles, initially just using the existing batteries was appropriate while numbers were small, but as the electric vehicle market looks more promising in the long term, it makes sense to design cells more suited to this application.
I don't find any videos about making electric motors more efficent. I think that could also increase range of the vehicles without putting more batteries in vehicle
@@edwardlewis1963 Tesla recently introduced their new battery design. A blank sheet design process costing hundreds of millions. The result is a cell a bit larger than a D-cell. Small cells allow zonal management of battery packs uniformity of charge and temperature. So save your speculation and look at what’s actually happening in the industry.
The large surface area solves that. Conventional round batteries have lots of small cells with a tiny surface area, so they generate a lot of heat to be taken way. I'm guessing you can have a much higher power battery since it has a larger surface area to dissipate any heat buildup. Also the lack of cobalt means less heat to begin with, it's the cobalt reaction that tends to run away and generate more heat than necessary, also making it less efficient as a lot of stored power is lost via heat.
Air cooled areas will get dusty, sticky, smudged etc. Surfaces will loose their ability to get rid of the heat?...unless it't protected somehow with air filters etc.
Yep, that claim is absolute bullshit. EV batteries need a full on thermal management system able to heat and cool the battery. LiFe chemistry cannot even charge at freezing temperatures, and heating them without a heat pump is a waste of energy. In the summer just the ambient heat alone will be dramatically accelerating wear on the battery pack. Teslas batteries have shown incredible "health data" over the years, and I just dont see that happening without the sophisticated thermal management.
humid air is desirable- it's hot dry air that will lack the cooling ability. Hot streets in Phoenix, AZ could be a problem! A battery pack might include a few super capacitors for stop-and-go driving. These are of limited range but they will not heat up, are not affected by temperature, and can cycle almost indefinitely. It's clear that battery technology is going to deliver, and soon though. That's very good news.
@@someotherdude Your claims are complete bullshit. The heat capacity difference between completely dry and completely humid air (calculated for 20°C) is only 3.6%. It simply does not matter. The heat pump systems are laid out to sufficiently perform for the entire specification of the vehicle, and there is no real limitation to the technology. Super capacitors seem completely unnecessary because the capacity is pretty miniscule, the cost is high and there is already a capable battery pack on board. Look into DoD (depth of discharge) and you will see that battery degradation with tiny charges and discharges goes towards zero. None of this is an issue. What is an issue, is heating the battery. The heat pump system needs to be very efficient to be able to heat the battery in winter without reducing range too much.
Our known physics supports the concept of direct uranium to electricity in a solid-state cell similar in size to a battery. It would have something like 25 million times the energy density of current batteries. If someone can solve the topological problems and mass production of nanotechnology, well, it is possible. Basically the problem is to take a material that converts radiation into electrons, which we do have, and then cram as many of those with corresponding copper wires in an arrangement that looks a lot like the schematic of a computer CPU. Failing that, we currently can convert radiation into magnetism, but we would need some really really really tiny coils of wire wrapped around magnets, like millions of tiny magnets with coils of wire wrapped around them per square inch. It is possible, but the mass production of it is currently impossible. With current technology we could make a AA battery that would last for 10 years, but costs $500,000 dollars. There is a reason why this technology is only ever used by NASA on satellites that get sent into deep space. And that is also the reason why you never heard of it, no one is going to spend the cost of a new Ferrari so they can have a flashlight that lasts 10 years.
I started reading the comments to see if anybody else had made the connection to the ZPM and you made me laugh because that’s why I was gonna leave a comment Ha that’s exactly what I thought too funny
Yeah I think you still need liquid cooling and heating because in parts of the world cold affects LiFePo and lithium ion batteries in similar ways so you need to keep them warm to avoid range loss from the cold, I don't think air cooling will cut it.
🙋♂️More areas of cold on the surface of the batteries to freeze and condensation expansion from hot to cold the sweat bring corrosion. This is like an advertisement so they left out many negatives.
Environmental heat transfer requirements are much much lower than operational ones. As in Watts per hour of keeping them warm in cold conditions is not only lower than Watts per hour of cooling during operation, but also identical for all battery shapes.
Well, if you design the batteries to take advantage of airflow, especially when the vehicle is in motion, then variable flow vents that open for more cooling and close more for colder weather could help maintain the correct temperature of the batteries, also a thermoelectric system could be used for either really hot weather or really cold weather to help maintain temperature, be sides the people will need to be heated or cooled in those conditions anyway
This is a real issue for people living in Siberia and Northern Canada, etc. For these people, range-extended electrics will be the answer. Range extended rotary engines running on natural gas would work beautifully- the engine would be tiny and extremely simple, as it need run at one speed only. The natural gas is abundant and not subject to the cold like diesel, and it doesn't require complexity to inject into the engine.
This rectangular shape battery is a subset in the evolution of methods to supply energy to an electric motor. I wrote about alternatives to the internal combustion engine many years ago. The fuel cell back then was using Platinum as the catalyst(expensive). In recent years the cost to generate Hydrogen for fuel cell use has dropped.
the reason why the LiFePO4 Cell didn't burst in flames is because they are intrinsicically safer, not due to their surface area. They are also lower in energy density which is usually a downside.
BYD has accepted the English interpretation as "Build Your Dreams!" Their cars are great, state-of-the-art, and is powerfully committed to respecting the environment. I'm a U.S. citizen currently residing in Shenzhen, and if I were to ever invest in a car, it would be a BYD.
Funny how foreigners living in China have such a different view of China. I lived in China for almost 10yrs and when I hear what people in the West think about what China is like inside I can only think that the western media is as bad as what the West thinks the media in China is. They just don't seem to notice.
@@MarkTheTechno yes but it is not as cheap as it used to be. If you want to do traveling there are lots of interesting things to do and see but I would not go by my self if I was you. I would try to find someone to go with that can speak Chinese and knows what to do.
The blade battery is already in production for quite a while now. It's a invention on packaging battery but not the material improvement. It' using LiFePO4 battery tech which is cheaper than Ternary polymer lithium battery (Tesla's battery) and safer. But the problem of LiFePO4 is it has less energy density. The blade battery increased the energy density and made it easier to cooling off so the BYD electric car can catch up the mile range with Tesla. If there are some new battery material which has higher energy density and using the blade packaging, that will be a revolution of electric cars. Good news is many Chinese electric car companies (includes BYD) declare their new cars will have 1000km range on single charge. That may cause a booming of electric cars.
Good to see a new good alternative to traditional batteries. Certainly after seeing Doug Munro’s tear dow of the overly complex cooling system on the latest Ford, this looks better. It would be interesting if you could do a comparison with the new 4680 batteries in the Tesla model Y as well as compare other factors such as recharging cycles / life expectancy. Very informative video that makes me think I’ll wait 3 more years before going electric.
@@andrewmena3118 yes, good comment, I’m still sticking with my time line. The tech is moving forward pretty well, but there’s a few niggles that are in the process of being ironed out. So I figure by 2025 a vehicle that fits my use case I.e. 400 mile sticker range will be available without the car being too heavy.
You forgot one thing to mention, the larger the surface area of single cell the more chances it's going to be difficult to maintain as in cells you can just replace the defective one but in a flat single module it's not that simple, that's why Tesla still use the cells bundled together instead of single flat battery assembly.
This will be the same pretty much, they are like 1cm thick so it will be like 300 of them in each battery :P He didn't explain that very clear. It's not one single flat battery, but 100s of "flat long battieres".
Actually it’s not hard to imagine. Individual cylinders require support between cells whereas strips on edge offer a great deal of support, particularly when pressed together like a laminated beam. Oriented across the chassis it would actually provide quite a bit of structural support or at least require less support to hold them up.
I made a liquid cooled pack using pouch cells. It was 1.7m long and about 15cm wide. It was strong enough for me to stand in the middle when supported by the ends and the energy density was the same as a Tesla brick. So it is certainly possible to make the long cell structurally strong.
Ever done the toilet roll tube trick? Stand a load of them on end and place a plank on top. Sideways, they have no strength at all but end on, they can take your weight easily.
We’ll see how this technology fares long-term. My primary thoughts are if this does anything to address extreme cold? Also passive cooling doesn’t sound like a great idea especially in hot areas of the world where there is a lot of stop & go traffic. What about longevity? How long do these packs last? Serviceability & replacement. In the likely scenario where you cannot replace the battery yourself what does it cost to buy & replace? What about range in extreme temperatures? How is that affected?
Well the problem with lithium is u cant take them under 40 degrees. So you have to add a heating element. That takes battery power,if battery hit 0 in a cold area all your batterys r fuked. So good in hot areas, cooling wasnt ever a issue,
I look forward to this interesting development. Being air-cooled and non or less combustible stands out. BYD is a;ready a big player in the battery and EV space. This could cement their position as a leader. Let's see if the blade approach catches on with the other battery and ev players.
Way to go, China! Your new BYD is a fantastic idea! Keep up the good work!Your creative use of space encapsulates the battery in a more useful way(center of gravity ) , the battery can be air-cooled; reducing weight.
"cooled using the air" yeah... in movement. My friend said the same when the radiator fan broke; the problem is that we got stuck in the Milan traffic. +1:30 late on a 1:00 trip due continuous refillings of the radiator system.
hmm, its still more efficient even if they use water cooling too on these blade shapes than on cylinder shape, having a copper pipe transfer heat from the flat side of the blade into a water pipe that ends in large fans that cool the water and then return back into a heat loop, the fans only starting when temperature exceeds a certain temperature mark and stopping when driving wind is enough to cool the batteries. very promising but i seen tons of similar promising techs that ultimately have a fatal problem that cant be solved reasonably.
@@thomaspayne6866 yes, im not adept at explaining things but its mostly due to the fact that blowing air directly to component is cooling the entire environment alongside said component. while blowing into a water pipe which then circulate to said component is cooling only said component, aka more effecient.
@@thomaspayne6866 it's just moving the problem from A to B, the heat doesn't caese to exist. A liquid moves the heat far easier btw and moving it to a greater surface helps dissipating in the air.
Intuitively I was always surprised that these big car batteries were made from a ‘million’ little batteries - this just makes more sense to me (at that level)
Intuitievly i know that your lack of understanding is the problem here... You need to have 300V out of your car battery to power your car so hundreds of little battery cells is the only option...
One of the biggest problems with fast charging is heat dissipation. The shape of the new cells and battery configuration looks to be much more efficient from that aspect
The shape of each cell doesn't matter all that much when they're being stuffed in a battery pack next to each other to increase capacity per volume. The physical thickness of each does, for individual cooling. You still need a way to carry away the heat from inside that volume, from between all the batteries. Flat rectangular batteries are not a revolutionary design, so I don't understand the point of this video. This is one of those few videos that are just "meh, it's already being done, but nice try marketing". Also, why is a lantern used as a cover photo? This stupifies the post even more.
Honestly it's the clickbait title that gets me. This isn't a revolutionary new battery "type". it's just a different shape. It's still just lead acid or lipo.
yeah its not really revolutionary but at least its make sense to poke other manufacturer an idea to make battery's that's designed to solve problem of e-car manufacturer nowadays.
I'm considering making a DIY e-scooter. That would definitely have LiFePO4 or LTO batteries rather than Li-ion. Safer, longer life and not so fragile when incorrectly charged.
Depends on whether you want range or acceleration. I think LFP is a good balance between the two and cost. LTOs have horrible energy density. Like 1/2 of an LFP and maybe 1/3 of NMC. Also due to the lower nominal voltage, you'll end up needing more LTO cells to get the same DC bus voltage to your motor controller.
@@PowerScissor you big dummy, he just means charging it when it's warm, right after use. This is undesirable, but often unavoidable. It's a reasonable concern.
Those small spaces between the blades look like they would eventually fill up with dirt the way air conditioning condenser fins do. Things that perform well in the Lab may not do the same on the road.
Electronic components on the inside of the vehicle tend to stay clean and corrosion free. It would be as simple as spraying with keyboard duster every time you get your tires rotated.
I’m curious, in the puncture test what will happen if the nail is wiggled? That video segment reminds me of when the lithium ion flat pack was first introduced and lab technicians punctured those cells benignly with a nail. They soon discovered, entirely by accident, if you wiggle the nail then things very quickly start to go wrong.
Also depends which way the lamination are in the batteries, I bet if they turned the lithium battery to it's side nothing would happen. Marketing tricks the clever little buggers :)
There are plenty of battery technologies that are better then litium.. but every battery factory in the entire world is producing lipo batteries pretty much and the cost of switching is insane, thats why solid state is going nowhere etc (the technology is already here, just not the production plants). Currently whats mostly needed are improvements to the current technologies (so you don't have to rebuild the entire factory just parts of it) while people figure out how to make the other ones viable to produce on scale, because thats another issue almost as bad as inventing the new battery itself unfortunately.
I dont really see how a square block of battery could have a higher surface area than many cylindrical cells packed into the same space? And I guess that would be the fair comparison to make, since then both would have equal capacity. In other words: you can only maximise one, either volumetric energy density, or cell surface area per storage capacity. not both
This is a great question - I stupidly completely forgot to mention that it is because they are really thin (13mm), meaning that they have greater surface area per volume of cell, and heat doesn't have to travel as far from the centre of the cell to the outside. This should have been in the video, sorry!!
Wish I had the money to invest in BYD now. I think it's the way of the future of new battery technology. There's always the potential of improving upon the original design and making it better. Better means better profits!
@@robertyu7341 thank you for bringing this into my awareness. At least, now, I have a lead in to where to go when I'm ready to make that investment. I appreciate your presence and for your offering.
@@victorhopper6774 with everything that you just shared ... The risk of loss is greater... That's good to know! Okay, so now I am looking for a plan b :)
No way air cooling is going to be as good as liquid cooling in that configuration. Cooling is important for range, charge time, safety, and power delivery. I'll agree on the rest of your pros and if they could be liquid cooled.....they could be the future.
What do you mean ‘why?’ China has most of the manufactures to make batteries on the world, even Panasonic is Japanese brand, but they also have some factory in China, due to much lower labor rate. If you even in China before, then you will find out China is not the same as your country’s media telling you about how it is.
@@adamsmith5913 FWIW, from personal experience I can tell you that price and the name on the electronics is not the best measure of quality and if you're willing to pay the price I'm pretty sure you could get the quality from China. But that's the thing isn't it, you have to be willing to pay for the quality instead of buying on price alone. I'm kind of assuming your other post is a bad attempt at sarcasm.
Lithium ion batteries definitely cannot do that. If you tried to charge an Li+ battery in 1 second with would definitely destroy the battery, maybe even just set it on fire or blow it up immediately.
I'm just worried about "structural" batteries and other such built-into-the-chassis batteries because if they fail, you're going to have to replace the whole car
Hasn't anyone noticed that during the puncture test the normal battery is at 4.2V (fully charged), while the BYD is at a mere 3.3V (almost discharged)? Quite a difference in the energy stored
What is your source for China being largerly dependend on fossil fuel energy production? China's renewable enery production share is 25% as of 2019, higher than that of the USA.
This video could have been far more technical instead of emotional. The foil packs don’t look much different than some laptop batteries, and LiFePO4 have been around a while. There must be more to this, but it wasn’t researched properly.
And from what I understand, LiFePO4 batteries have lower energy density than Li-Ion. The safety is a trade off. I wouldn't put it past them to just straight up be lying about the specs. We've seen that over and over already.
There is no mention of energy density? Yes the battery saves s[ace but how effective is it in providing the Energy for the vehicle. There is a reason that Tesla does a cylinder battery and it is bercause of the existing infrastructure of manufacturing. Manufacturing batteries i s massive task and i cant see this batter making much head way for s very long time or at all but is s tep in the right direction.
It would make far more sense for the battery to be used in a very light weight vehicle. It's really all about energy and mass. When you have a vehicle that weighs 10 to 50 times the weight of the rider most of the energy is squandered/wasted on just moving around a big heavy box.This is an essential point. If the vehicle was light in weight like an electric bike or an electric velomobile it makes a lot more sense as most of the energy is used instead to get the rider to distances fairly quickly. Even a fairly light in weight electric motorcycle could possibly make sense.A vehicle carrying heavy goods would probably not be a light vehicle however.
This is a problem I think too about. Some say the extra weight is only important for starting but once driving, it's less important. The inertia takes over and an ultracapacitator can store the energy when braking. But I am not convinced.
Tesla better take notice of BYD. BYD will make electric cars that everyone can afford. Not just the rich. BYD, also make electric buses, too. Blade batter looks to be a winner.
Not to mention that Tesla's Apple-esque business strategy. You can't even buy wheel bolt covers without having to verify the vehicle by license plate and serial number and you surely loose all warranty on the wheels if you put it on yourself. Not to mention issues with having it updated and risk of loosing fast charge if you do something Tesla don't like. Not that I'm too keen on Chinese cars but I'd take it any day over a Tesla. Fortunately European makers (I'm European) starts to take notice too. They're fortunately not (yet?) Apple-esque in their business model.
Imagine having a large utility scale battery back adjacent to an office building and being able to capture the heat for use in building heating and water heating.
In an extreme case they can still generate enough heat to become a hazard. There's a documented case of a communities grid scale LiFePO4 battery going up in flames because the heat couldn't be managed when something went wrong. LiFePO4 is safer than Li-ion NMC but you still have a very hot battery if something goes wrong.
@@GENcELL2014 That is what he wrote... one is doing it in "extreme case" other is going nuclear in not so "extreme case"->that is why "LiFePO4 batteries does not experience the same thermal run away."
@@Bialy_1 He did not write what I wrote...it's called elaboration...lol. His statement could be taken as LiFePO4 doesn't have issues during thermal runaway so I'm making sure to point out LiFePO4 is still very dangerous during a thermal runaway. Li-ion electrolyte is highly flammable, LiFePO4 has far safer electrolyte. That is why Li-ion is so dangerous. They both go "nuclear" with the same types of events but Li-ion liquid electrolyte becomes gaseous when hot that then easily bursts the cell and catches on fire. LiFePO4 just gets crazy hot, sizzles and melts with the potential of everything flammable around catching on fire. Thermal runaway and internal or external shorts are extreme events regardless of chemistry. We're talking about stuff that has a low percentage of occurring if you aren't abusive to the battery, vehicle, avoid crashes, or get a lemon cell with an internal short from factory.
i think china is the biggest investor in green energy. despite that.. using e.car mean people in the city will inhale less toxic gas and particle from cars
I think one of the risks of making the cells bigger is that you basically assure that the cells are going to become damaged. Either by flexing (Because they're so long) or by a puncture. I don't think we should be making part of the battery structure replace ANY part of the chassis. Thats asking for trouble.
Interesting video! It would have been nice to have had some real numbers in terms of energy density per unit volume and weight. Tesla new battery pack will also act as a structural component to the car. I am not impressed about the battery chemistry though. Lithium-iron-phosphate is the cheapest but also the less energy dense of the group. Improvements in safety is a good advantage. Let’s see how things will evolve with the lithium-metal solid state battery.
Energy density can be a bit misleading when you are comparing different designs. The thing I've always hated about the current round cell design is it takes so many cells to run an EV that a lot of space and weight is taken up by packaging. A design like this can make a less dense chemistry be equally or even more viable in the real world. In the long run though, solid state is probably the best option and it also can work in configurations like these ones.
I like the idea, makes for warming or cooling a very simple system, just a thermostat with an airflow control and you can control the airflow for hot or cold areas :). Liquid cooling works great but we have seen over the years even the best system can get a leak, the VW air cooled engine as well as air cooled Lawnmowers seem to work very reliably for many years and there is nearly always air about ;)
@@madsolsen9591 ok thanks, my takeaway from the video was that this technology is the cheapest out of current offerings, furthermore, in terms of safety it also acts as an additional structure to the car saving on weight and space. I think your comment might be misinformed.
One of the advantages of the cylindrical format turns out to be its strength (when resisting swelling). I don't see that being true of the "blade" shape.
@@jeremybowden3134 Swelling occurs when all those ions try to cram into the same place. That's why nobody has succeeded in using Silicon, in spite of an electrical advantage (vis-a-vis lithium) of about eight times.
@@Mattys556 Wait so these are cells are going to be charged parallel? actually that's a good idea, if they have a ton of smaller capacity cells charging in parallel, you could definitely reduce charge times. It would almost have a super-capacitor quality to it.
There is a lot of info on these new bats about safety and performance but not about weather conditions heat/cold max and conditions are not discussed about bat performance under extreme conditions and the effect of longevity and start up.....I am glad to see they are making more safe and lighter/smaller, more endurance bats for car use....
It was evident as early as 2010 that the energy density of battery chemistry was insignificant relative to the structural container which makes up the pack of cells. A 10% increase in energy densities while significant in the lab is dwarfed by the casing weight. Elon himself pointed this out laughingly pointing out what a waste of time it was to do R&D on exotic chemistries when most of the weight problem is the cell casing and the waste of space arranging cylinder shaped cells. Then add more infrastructure to hold the cells in place and as mentioned a cooling system. Recently came across a carbon foam battery where the energy to weight was higher then any other chemistry but the volume to energy was bigger then any other chemistry. However the foam structure is strong enough to become the car body itself offsetting the volume concern and replacing the heavy body with an energy storage potential greater than any other mobile concept. Apply this to the electric airplane solution and you now have a viable technology for electric aircraft.
it's almost like elon actually knows what he is talking about and isn't just a grifter that got lucky. Interesting concept to consider with the recent media blitz against him...
@@motie38 pretty good question, but I'm sure we can implement the advances we have with other material science with carbon foam and create crumple zones, among other things, to protect passengers.
@@crossup13 passenger safety is only one worry. Batteries are toxic waste. And they're a lot more expensive than a crumpled piece of metal or fiberglass. If you make batteries part of the body, you're raising the cost of an accident significantly. The car becomes so expensive to repair it's now essentially a very expensive disposable container, and now you need a hazmat team at every accident. well, almost.
LiFE cells aren't new, they're less efficient than current cells. These are cheaper, but not even close to the density that other tech is. These are good for home systems and prefer a .2c charge and discharge rate (aka 5hrs charge). Using 80% charge cycle and .2c charge and discharge, the batteries can last for 10,000 cycles. Fast charging drops their life to around 3,000 cycles. Water is way, way more dense than air and can carry substantially more heat as well as be hooked to heat pump to cool the cells below ambient.
I think the point was that ANYTHING made in China is going to consume more fossil fuel and generally less sustainable resources than most other places that might be able to manufacture such a thing at anything close to a comparable price. If you listen closely, the narration script points to the place of manufacturer as being one of the drawbacks, NOT any particular characteristic of this type of battery. The Chinese are all about making things as inexpensively as possible, but that still work pretty good, and all of their manufacturing infrastructure has for decades retained these as top priorities, and we all have benefited from this to some extent. If in this case, the opposite scenario is particularly instructive, one might imagine some product that is manufactured in , let’s say Sweden, for example, and is celebrated because one of its advantages is that its manufacture has a very low environmental impact, including the amount of non-renewably-sourced energy being either extremely small if not totally absent; HOWEVER, this might result in the pro’s and cons list giving the number one slot on the drawbacks list to high costs from the manufacturer all the way to the end user. Again, this is all because of WHERE it’s made, NOT (as before) HOW it’s made, vis a vis consumption of raw material and source of energy used. Either you weren’t really paying attention, or the whole matter is over your head, but it appears you completely missed the point of this video.
@@thatfeeble-mindedboy Yes I know, I just wanted to point out, that those batteries aren't the only ones produced under bad conditions using fossil energy. So that this shouldn't be much of a problem, as with other products it's the same.
@@sanctred Pretty much all the other "normal" batteries are produced in China as well with all said cons (of the video) like using fossil energy and all that stuff. So this shouldn't be the problem, as these batteries aren't particularly produced under those "bad" conditions
I would rather see the work with capacitors, they have supper fast recharge rates, longer lifespan by great amounts, and are overall safeter when discharged.
Yay! i was waiting for the improvement on our batteries! hopefully in future we get longer use as well as fast charge :D Better for the environment is always good!
@@myMotoring I missed nothing cylindrical cells are pretty much used exclusively by tesla the video is nothing more than a click bait title with clickbait picture(that has nothing to do with the video) There is nothing revolutionary about flat batteries BMW, Nissan, VW all use flat batteries and have since at least 2015 You are being disingenuous
THis is one of the best Blade battery videos here and I have viewed most of them. What is correct here, and neglected in others, is the VERY important fact that it can be air cooled. This is a HUGE saving in cost, complexity, weight and volume. Check out Sandy Munros video breakdowns of TEslas and Fords water cooling system to see how big an issue this is. The costs differences just for the battery, neglecting structural cooling, is That BYD has stated their costs are $80/kw while even Teslsa new 4680 cell, (still not in volume production), can't break $110/kw. You should not be spreading false rumor about BYD supplying Tesla. BYD made an official denial on this unfounded Chinese based gossip. The other factor here is the capacity of BYD to even supply themselves with Blade batteries. They will need a 2nd battery factory next year as their 20GW capacity factory can only supply 200-350K vehicles with a 60k-100Kwh pack. (Do the math). Lastly, Elon in recent posts has agreed that LFP chemistry will make up 70% of the EV battery market in the future, which means CATL and BYD, or Samsung and Panasonic will have to change directions.
The shape of the battery pack is pretty good for cars but I would not call it a breakthrough. LiFePO4 is a common Li-battery material and has some drawbacks compared to Cobalt too. E.g. lower energy density, lower cell voltage and problems with low temperatures.
Great ideas, hopefully others will also think outside of the box and come up with innovative solutions like these. Thank you for sharing this info. New sub.
Cylindrical cells are cheap to manufacture can be rapidly produced in large quantities. That's why your AA batteries are cylindrical, as well as soda cans, canned food, jars, medicine bottles, are all cylindrical in shape.
Other than the chemistry, this has been around for years, the reason Tesla went the different approach is because of the availability of production facilities
Also the Tesla 4680s will ramp and have a lot of advantages over the current 2170 cells, including volume, and they are working on structural packs as well.
The thing about air cooled batteries is you cannot keep them at the optimal temperature when it gets cold. I'm talking really cold. Like, - 30C cold. Electric cars just aren't able to work as well when it gets cold like that.
It’s shaped like an air cooled engine fins anybody could of came up with that .the down side to this design is the battery needs to be exposed to air in order to cool properly and it will not work well in hot climates and it will corrode easily
Legit saw the blade and laughed as I was like, wait, they just skipped a step and improved virtually every technical spec related to the batteries longevity? Anyone ever open a cylindrical battery? It’s just a rolled up rectangle. I guess circle truly does get the square...
what do you mean: „replace the conventional cylinder“? Tesla is basically the ONLY car manufacturer using cylinders ( I guess Rivian and Lucid, too, but there aren’t any volumes to speak of yet…).
There is alot wrong in this video, so let's go over the high points: 1. There's more surface area in a rolled up battery by a LARGE MARGIN. Take that "blade", roll it up, see how it takes up less space? 2. Electric cars don't make power from thin area. It's still taken from the grid, and just as wasteful and potentially polluting as any power you use in your home. It doesn't solve the energy problem, it just shifts it's focus. 3. If anyone REALLY cared about the effects of pollution on the global environment, they'd stop dumping all of their manufacturing on China, a country with the WORST POLLUTION ON THE PLANET.
LiFePO4 cells are robust and make a viable EV battery. However, they fall short in energy density. Closer every day, but still 25% short. Cold temp performance is also quite poor.
I've been decently interested and involved with Li-ion cells (18650s to be exact) since 2006. They (obviously) used to be solely focused for minor, handheld devices, and, seeing that the technology was NEVER meant for high draw, fast recharge and the cells were dangerous when placed under extreme heat (or damaged)... ALONG with the requirements for a PCB controller... ... it's definitely in the world's best interests to move AWAY from Li-Ion/polymer technologies for vehicles, large devices, and high-voltage concerns. TBH, I'm surprised that Li-Ion has become so robust, only with exception to its light weight & high energy-density.
It's not 18650 anymore it's 4860 and the gel kind are actually better and it uses no lithium it uses cobalt but yes I think we can make a battery and make it swap out like laptop used to take battery out and put a new one
just a point that may interest you, two seperate times during the 1980's i read about a man that had a volvo car that ran on water he lived in hednesford near cannock in staffordshire u.k, the other was a man that made his own electric motor to run his car the interesting thing was he had batteries front and rear and while traveling one set of batteries were being charged by the motor, it made it possible to travel 2500 miles on one charge....both were bought by car companies, never to be heard from again.
We've had Square batteries for sometimes now even rectangular batteries. What's new the idea is to use the shape of our battery to our advantage as it relates to thermal dynamics, what we need to create is a battery that creates and stores its own electronic energy to be distributed.
I feel like there is a reason why a company that invested as much into battery development as Tesla choose cylyndrical designs. Flat batteries have been used in electronics for 20+ years. It likely has to do with cooling or the abillity to diagnose and reuse single cells instead of recycling the entire pack. That last one would be more enviromentally friendly and cheaper. Not to mention if a cell turns bad they can disable it with software, leaving the remaining houndreds or sometimes thousands of other cells operational. I guess we will see what design comes out on top after the warranty expires. Cheers to new ideas though!
You did not mention the lifetime of these cells. For fast do they lose capacity? This is very crucial to judge whether they are really better than traditional lithium-ion cells
They are way better actually, the life span is much longer. The big drawback is energy density (which is lower). It's not a new technology just a new idea with the design. The hope is that you can remove enough heat-sinks to make the less dense battery still worth it if that makes sense.
Lithium Iron Phosphate or LFP cathodes are not good for fast charging. They are cheap to make and *can* last longer than more expensive Nickel-rich chemistries. Although I agree with the other points mentioned in the video, I would like to add that a large form factor like the blade battery makes the replacement of individual cells really expensive and difficult as each cell is so big now.
INFORMATION: I stupidly forgot a key detail, which is the cells are thinner than usual, this means the surface area per volume of the cell is higher, and heat from the centre of the cell can escape quicker. Sorry for any confusion!
Which country does not depend on fossil fuel ? Please elaborate.
Furthermore, China is actively developing large scale non-fossil-fuel power generation facilities, including solar, wind, hydro-electric, nuclear and geothermal.
It is unfortunate for you to include your anti-China bias in an otherwise excellent report on the advantage of new type of lithium battery.
@@clocktower1164 It's not anti china is factual. Most of the vid is pro hina. Re power, china and coal is a problem. The same thing should be said of America I though. There are countries with much much higher renewables percentage.
Are you saying each nation can emit only the same amount? 10 million population and 1.4 billion population? Check per capita emission. The US is the largest polluter.
@@monkeysezbegood Since you are the one who claims _"There are countries with much much higher renewables percentage"_ would you kindly provide us with a list of countries that have *"much higher renewables percentage"* than that of China ?
We will be awaiting for your answer, and please, *_don't disappoint us_*_ !_
@@clocktower1164 A 1 minute google will give you some answers. Admittedly smaller population places. I am positive China will accelerate it's transition and be a leader.
I’m glad to see china starting to come up with innovations in the field of sustainability. When I went to china it was amazing how common electric cars and scooters are, it’s not an “elite” thing for the rich, they all use it. I’m sure we will see more innovations from them soon.
Well considering the pollution they needed it badly anyways
@@Anomize23 "They needed it badly" sooooo its ok if these funky new batteries never make it to the west right?
oh like because Chinas making ALL of the pollution for itself? lol ok i get the western propaganda youve been fed mate.... you do realise all of the stuff youre using is made in China? The worlds factory??? sound familiar?
you cant have China do all the dirty work and then at the same time blame them because of pollution lol while the west sit smugly and snugly denying global warming exists and then accusing china of inventing wind? LOL
China made the virus isn't that helping the environment?
@@jontopham2742 please show actual evidence of that
@@jontopham2742 I made gravity in my backyard these days. My basketball can't stop falling to the ground and bouncing now, pretty fun
It makes perfect sense to create cells in shapes that are optimized specifically for cars. The improvements look very promising, I like it.
I guess you will like learning how to speak Mandarin too; or maybe you already do... lets just kiss democracy goodbuy
Yes.
The small cylindrical design of the existing batteries reflects what they were intended for, which is for small, handheld consumer electronics.
For the mass market of cellphones, a flat battery was more appropriate, and because of economy of scale, the flattened battery was practical to produce.
For electric vehicles, initially just using the existing batteries was appropriate while numbers were small, but as the electric vehicle market looks more promising in the long term, it makes sense to design cells more suited to this application.
I don't find any videos about making electric motors more efficent. I think that could also increase range of the vehicles without putting more batteries in vehicle
@@NeRa101 I agree. That's also interesting vector for improvement.
@@edwardlewis1963 Tesla recently introduced their new battery design. A blank sheet design process costing hundreds of millions. The result is a cell a bit larger than a D-cell. Small cells allow zonal management of battery packs uniformity of charge and temperature. So save your speculation and look at what’s actually happening in the industry.
Without watercooling, I'm assuming humid and hot climates, the battery will suffer from the inability to transfer heat to a hot medium.
The large surface area solves that. Conventional round batteries have lots of small cells with a tiny surface area, so they generate a lot of heat to be taken way. I'm guessing you can have a much higher power battery since it has a larger surface area to dissipate any heat buildup. Also the lack of cobalt means less heat to begin with, it's the cobalt reaction that tends to run away and generate more heat than necessary, also making it less efficient as a lot of stored power is lost via heat.
Air cooled areas will get dusty, sticky, smudged etc. Surfaces will loose their ability to get rid of the heat?...unless it't protected somehow with air filters etc.
Yep, that claim is absolute bullshit. EV batteries need a full on thermal management system able to heat and cool the battery.
LiFe chemistry cannot even charge at freezing temperatures, and heating them without a heat pump is a waste of energy. In the summer just the ambient heat alone will be dramatically accelerating wear on the battery pack.
Teslas batteries have shown incredible "health data" over the years, and I just dont see that happening without the sophisticated thermal management.
humid air is desirable- it's hot dry air that will lack the cooling ability. Hot streets in Phoenix, AZ could be a problem! A battery pack might include a few super capacitors for stop-and-go driving. These are of limited range but they will not heat up, are not affected by temperature, and can cycle almost indefinitely.
It's clear that battery technology is going to deliver, and soon though. That's very good news.
@@someotherdude Your claims are complete bullshit. The heat capacity difference between completely dry and completely humid air (calculated for 20°C) is only 3.6%. It simply does not matter. The heat pump systems are laid out to sufficiently perform for the entire specification of the vehicle, and there is no real limitation to the technology.
Super capacitors seem completely unnecessary because the capacity is pretty miniscule, the cost is high and there is already a capable battery pack on board. Look into DoD (depth of discharge) and you will see that battery degradation with tiny charges and discharges goes towards zero. None of this is an issue.
What is an issue, is heating the battery. The heat pump system needs to be very efficient to be able to heat the battery in winter without reducing range too much.
Thanks for a good presentation. Optimum heat transfer has probably always been the area where improvements could be sought for all devices.
the thumbnail looks like some kind of ZPM like in the tv show stargate Atlantis...
Our known physics supports the concept of direct uranium to electricity in a solid-state cell similar in size to a battery. It would have something like 25 million times the energy density of current batteries. If someone can solve the topological problems and mass production of nanotechnology, well, it is possible. Basically the problem is to take a material that converts radiation into electrons, which we do have, and then cram as many of those with corresponding copper wires in an arrangement that looks a lot like the schematic of a computer CPU. Failing that, we currently can convert radiation into magnetism, but we would need some really really really tiny coils of wire wrapped around magnets, like millions of tiny magnets with coils of wire wrapped around them per square inch. It is possible, but the mass production of it is currently impossible. With current technology we could make a AA battery that would last for 10 years, but costs $500,000 dollars. There is a reason why this technology is only ever used by NASA on satellites that get sent into deep space. And that is also the reason why you never heard of it, no one is going to spend the cost of a new Ferrari so they can have a flashlight that lasts 10 years.
Maybe a little bit
I started reading the comments to see if anybody else had made the connection to the ZPM and you made me laugh because that’s why I was gonna leave a comment Ha that’s exactly what I thought too funny
@@musikSkool that is really cool!
I hope not. The Ancients made finding the ZPMs a real pain in finding replacements.
Thanks for the video. BYD Blade battery is also my favorite EV battery pack. Combining LFP and CTP is the way to go to get affordable electric cars.
@linkzable details please.
@linkzable link lol
Yeah I think you still need liquid cooling and heating because in parts of the world cold affects LiFePo and lithium ion batteries in similar ways so you need to keep them warm to avoid range loss from the cold, I don't think air cooling will cut it.
🙋♂️More areas of cold on the surface of the batteries to freeze and condensation expansion from hot to cold the sweat bring corrosion.
This is like an advertisement so they left out many negatives.
Environmental heat transfer requirements are much much lower than operational ones. As in Watts per hour of keeping them warm in cold conditions is not only lower than Watts per hour of cooling during operation, but also identical for all battery shapes.
Well, if you design the batteries to take advantage of airflow, especially when the vehicle is in motion, then variable flow vents that open for more cooling and close more for colder weather could help maintain the correct temperature of the batteries, also a thermoelectric system could be used for either really hot weather or really cold weather to help maintain temperature, be sides the people will need to be heated or cooled in those conditions anyway
This is a real issue for people living in Siberia and Northern Canada, etc.
For these people, range-extended electrics will be the answer. Range extended rotary engines running on natural gas would work beautifully- the engine would be tiny and extremely simple, as it need run at one speed only. The natural gas is abundant and not subject to the cold like diesel, and it doesn't require complexity to inject into the engine.
This rectangular shape battery is a subset in the evolution of methods to supply energy to an electric motor. I wrote about alternatives to the internal combustion engine many years ago. The fuel cell back then was using Platinum as the catalyst(expensive). In recent years the cost to generate Hydrogen for fuel cell use has dropped.
the reason why the LiFePO4 Cell didn't burst in flames is because they are intrinsicically safer, not due to their surface area. They are also lower in energy density which is usually a downside.
BYD has accepted the English interpretation as "Build Your Dreams!" Their cars are great, state-of-the-art, and is powerfully committed to respecting the environment. I'm a U.S. citizen currently residing in Shenzhen, and if I were to ever invest in a car, it would be a BYD.
Funny how foreigners living in China have such a different view of China. I lived in China for almost 10yrs and when I hear what people in the West think about what China is like inside I can only think that the western media is as bad as what the West thinks the media in China is. They just don't seem to notice.
Would you recommend living in China for a brief 3-5 years? It appears to be a beautiful country worth spending time in.
@@MarkTheTechno yes but it is not as cheap as it used to be. If you want to do traveling there are lots of interesting things to do and see but I would not go by my self if I was you. I would try to find someone to go with that can speak Chinese and knows what to do.
found the bot
What about investing in NIO?
Lived in China a few years, BYD is very progressive.
No matter what, this could, and should become a game-changer for many industries...
This is definitely another form of innovation... Adaptation n creation of something new yet pragmatic
The blade battery is already in production for quite a while now. It's a invention on packaging battery but not the material improvement. It' using LiFePO4 battery tech which is cheaper than Ternary polymer lithium battery (Tesla's battery) and safer. But the problem of LiFePO4 is it has less energy density. The blade battery increased the energy density and made it easier to cooling off so the BYD electric car can catch up the mile range with Tesla. If there are some new battery material which has higher energy density and using the blade packaging, that will be a revolution of electric cars. Good news is many Chinese electric car companies (includes BYD) declare their new cars will have 1000km range on single charge. That may cause a booming of electric cars.
Good to see a new good alternative to traditional batteries. Certainly after seeing Doug Munro’s tear dow of the overly complex cooling system on the latest Ford, this looks better. It would be interesting if you could do a comparison with the new 4680 batteries in the Tesla model Y as well as compare other factors such as recharging cycles / life expectancy. Very informative video that makes me think I’ll wait 3 more years before going electric.
You mean Sandy Munro?
2 more years to go marcusoutdoors4999
@@andrewmena3118 yes, good comment, I’m still sticking with my time line. The tech is moving forward pretty well, but there’s a few niggles that are in the process of being ironed out. So I figure by 2025 a vehicle that fits my use case I.e. 400 mile sticker range will be available without the car being too heavy.
You forgot one thing to mention, the larger the surface area of single cell the more chances it's going to be difficult to maintain as in cells you can just replace the defective one but in a flat single module it's not that simple, that's why Tesla still use the cells bundled together instead of single flat battery assembly.
This will be the same pretty much, they are like 1cm thick so it will be like 300 of them in each battery :P He didn't explain that very clear. It's not one single flat battery, but 100s of "flat long battieres".
It would have been nice to see the construction and chemistry of the BYD blade battery. Hard to understand how a few foils can be structural.
Actually it’s not hard to imagine. Individual cylinders require support between cells whereas strips on edge offer a great deal of support, particularly when pressed together like a laminated beam. Oriented across the chassis it would actually provide quite a bit of structural support or at least require less support to hold them up.
I made a liquid cooled pack using pouch cells. It was 1.7m long and about 15cm wide. It was strong enough for me to stand in the middle when supported by the ends and the energy density was the same as a Tesla brick. So it is certainly possible to make the long cell structurally strong.
@@franciscoshi1968 yes
Ever done the toilet roll tube trick? Stand a load of them on end and place a plank on top. Sideways, they have no strength at all but end on, they can take your weight easily.
If the batteries are structural members wouldn't that make it harder to replace the battery packs making the vehicle obsolete one day.
We’ll see how this technology fares long-term. My primary thoughts are if this does anything to address extreme cold? Also passive cooling doesn’t sound like a great idea especially in hot areas of the world where there is a lot of stop & go traffic.
What about longevity? How long do these packs last?
Serviceability & replacement. In the likely scenario where you cannot replace the battery yourself what does it cost to buy & replace?
What about range in extreme temperatures? How is that affected?
Well the problem with lithium is u cant take them under 40 degrees. So you have to add a heating element. That takes battery power,if battery hit 0 in a cold area all your batterys r fuked. So good in hot areas, cooling wasnt ever a issue,
I look forward to this interesting development. Being air-cooled and non or less combustible stands out. BYD is a;ready a big player in the battery and EV space. This could cement their position as a leader. Let's see if the blade approach catches on with the other battery and ev players.
@Supreme Chinese are the biggest clientele of that Munro guy, I'm sure they learned a lot and act FAST
@Supreme Sorry bro, you had 150 years of opportunities becoming a freedom fighter under British occupation ... that ship has sailed.
@Supreme Hong Kong's demise is in order.
Overthrow the Chinese government and put Trump as their president!
@Supreme CIA shill
Way to go, China! Your new BYD is a fantastic idea! Keep up the good work!Your creative use of space encapsulates the battery in a more useful way(center of gravity ) , the battery can be air-cooled; reducing weight.
“Batteries can act as structural components of the car” makes me nervous
LiFePo4 chemistry can't burn.
@@crhu319 Surely that stored energy can be released somehow.
@@thebunnisher109 Yeah into kinetic energy that can move the vehicle forward...
Yes, I'll let other people be the Guinea pigs for that idea. Flex, flex, flex, WHOOOSH!
Some old ICE car place their gas tank close to the engine for effeciency reasons...not very good idea 😬😬
"cooled using the air"
yeah... in movement. My friend said the same when the radiator fan broke; the problem is that we got stuck in the Milan traffic. +1:30 late on a 1:00 trip due continuous refillings of the radiator system.
hmm, its still more efficient even if they use water cooling too on these blade shapes than on cylinder shape, having a copper pipe transfer heat from the flat side of the blade into a water pipe that ends in large fans that cool the water and then return back into a heat loop, the fans only starting when temperature exceeds a certain temperature mark and stopping when driving wind is enough to cool the batteries.
very promising but i seen tons of similar promising techs that ultimately have a fatal problem that cant be solved reasonably.
So an air cooling fan is worse that water cooling system with fan?
Makes no sense bruh
@@thomaspayne6866 yes, im not adept at explaining things but its mostly due to the fact that blowing air directly to component is cooling the entire environment alongside said component.
while blowing into a water pipe which then circulate to said component is cooling only said component, aka more effecient.
@@thomaspayne6866 it's just moving the problem from A to B, the heat doesn't caese to exist. A liquid moves the heat far easier btw and moving it to a greater surface helps dissipating in the air.
Intuitively I was always surprised that these big car batteries were made from a ‘million’ little batteries - this just makes more sense to me (at that level)
Intuitievly i know that your lack of understanding is the problem here...
You need to have 300V out of your car battery to power your car so hundreds of little battery cells is the only option...
@@Bialy_1 lol! I’m a mechanical engineer - I think you may have missed the point of this video - this new battery doesn’t have many tiny batteries….
@@willm5814 Actually it still does..? They are just mainly longer, still will be 100s of them in each battery :P
Interesting, anything to improve and reduce the electric battery issues…although nothing was said about charge time of distance in between charge…
i hour to 80 % , range is 650 klms.
One of the biggest problems with fast charging is heat dissipation. The shape of the new cells and battery configuration looks to be much more efficient from that aspect
Exciting to see all these battery innovations considering how many electronics we have these days.
20 years ago… imagine 20 years to now then imagine another 20 years exponentially
The shape of each cell doesn't matter all that much when they're being stuffed in a battery pack next to each other to increase capacity per volume. The physical thickness of each does, for individual cooling. You still need a way to carry away the heat from inside that volume, from between all the batteries. Flat rectangular batteries are not a revolutionary design, so I don't understand the point of this video. This is one of those few videos that are just "meh, it's already being done, but nice try marketing".
Also, why is a lantern used as a cover photo? This stupifies the post even more.
Honestly it's the clickbait title that gets me.
This isn't a revolutionary new battery "type". it's just a different shape.
It's still just lead acid or lipo.
yeah its not really revolutionary but at least its make sense to poke other manufacturer an idea to make battery's that's designed to solve problem of e-car manufacturer nowadays.
I'm considering making a DIY e-scooter. That would definitely have LiFePO4 or LTO batteries rather than Li-ion. Safer, longer life and not so fragile when incorrectly charged.
Do you plan on incorrectly charging yours?
Depends on whether you want range or acceleration. I think LFP is a good balance between the two and cost.
LTOs have horrible energy density. Like 1/2 of an LFP and maybe 1/3 of NMC. Also due to the lower nominal voltage, you'll end up needing more LTO cells to get the same DC bus voltage to your motor controller.
@@PowerScissor you big dummy, he just means charging it when it's warm, right after use. This is undesirable, but often unavoidable. It's a reasonable concern.
"It's totally not one of those time twister thingies, or wateva" -Carl
Those small spaces between the blades look like they would eventually fill up with dirt the way air conditioning condenser fins do. Things that perform well in the Lab may not do the same on the road.
Maybe they use filters, I don't know
Electronic components on the inside of the vehicle tend to stay clean and corrosion free. It would be as simple as spraying with keyboard duster every time you get your tires rotated.
And how is it any worse than packing 1000s of small batteries ?
nop i tihnk they transfer the heat through the chasis and then rely on air flowing on the bottom to cool it.
It is not only heat dissipation. You need to warm the battery up in many circumstances.
I’m curious, in the puncture test what will happen if the nail is wiggled? That video segment reminds me of when the lithium ion flat pack was first introduced and lab technicians punctured those cells benignly with a nail. They soon discovered, entirely by accident, if you wiggle the nail then things very quickly start to go wrong.
Also depends which way the lamination are in the batteries, I bet if they turned the lithium battery to it's side nothing would happen. Marketing tricks the clever little buggers :)
It doesn't use cobolt which is a huge part of the explosiveness of normal litium batteries. (makes them a bit less energy dense though)
Just one note, you are aware that the new iron air batteries, out performed the best of the lithium batteries in the market.
There are plenty of battery technologies that are better then litium.. but every battery factory in the entire world is producing lipo batteries pretty much and the cost of switching is insane, thats why solid state is going nowhere etc (the technology is already here, just not the production plants). Currently whats mostly needed are improvements to the current technologies (so you don't have to rebuild the entire factory just parts of it) while people figure out how to make the other ones viable to produce on scale, because thats another issue almost as bad as inventing the new battery itself unfortunately.
I dont really see how a square block of battery could have a higher surface area than many cylindrical cells packed into the same space? And I guess that would be the fair comparison to make, since then both would have equal capacity.
In other words: you can only maximise one, either volumetric energy density, or cell surface area per storage capacity. not both
This is a great question - I stupidly completely forgot to mention that it is because they are really thin (13mm), meaning that they have greater surface area per volume of cell, and heat doesn't have to travel as far from the centre of the cell to the outside. This should have been in the video, sorry!!
@@ZirothTech Ok, thanks for the explanation! So it is not about surface area, but better heat transfer from the core of the cell to its surface?
@@s.m8766 The larger surface area allows for better heat transfer.
@@Rs07Jehts So the battery has a lower volumetric energy density?
How will this affect in colder countries
What about when you are driving in the cold and need the batteries warmed.
Don't take my word for it, but I think LiFe batterys preform much better then LiPo batterys in the cold, so they might not need any warming
Probably, just stop the air flow for a while. They will warm up for sure.
Wish I had the money to invest in BYD now. I think it's the way of the future of new battery technology. There's always the potential of improving upon the original design and making it better. Better means better profits!
Only problem is that since the company is based in the People’s Republic of China, they must serve the Chinese Censorship Party (CCP for short)
Warren buffet invests in BYD. I am pretty sure if you buy stocks in Berkshire Hathaway you would be invested in BYD.
@@robertyu7341 thank you for bringing this into my awareness. At least, now, I have a lead in to where to go when I'm ready to make that investment. I appreciate your presence and for your offering.
@@iambliscanna1592 little known fun fact . all dividends have to be approved by the ccp of any company in china.
@@victorhopper6774 with everything that you just shared ... The risk of loss is greater...
That's good to know! Okay, so now I am looking for a plan b :)
No way air cooling is going to be as good as liquid cooling in that configuration. Cooling is important for range, charge time, safety, and power delivery. I'll agree on the rest of your pros and if they could be liquid cooled.....they could be the future.
If air cooling is 'adequate' then using it is far better. Much less complexity and weight, and even significantly less energy draw on the battery.
Could the heat generated by the cooling be used to heat the car cabin during the cold months?
"The cells are manufactured in China" Why? Where are other batteries made?
What do you mean ‘why?’ China has most of the manufactures to make batteries on the world, even Panasonic is Japanese brand, but they also have some factory in China, due to much lower labor rate. If you even in China before, then you will find out China is not the same as your country’s media telling you about how it is.
@@adamsmith5913 But China also makes high quality items, you just have to pay for them instead of buying the cheapest you can find.
Tesla Model 3 are manufactured in the United States
@@adamsmith5913 FWIW, from personal experience I can tell you that price and the name on the electronics is not the best measure of quality and if you're willing to pay the price I'm pretty sure you could get the quality from China. But that's the thing isn't it, you have to be willing to pay for the quality instead of buying on price alone. I'm kind of assuming your other post is a bad attempt at sarcasm.
@@L98fiero I think you have reading comprehension problems, are you English 1st language?
Theoradically speaking, any battery capacity can be fully charged in 1 second as long as the battery doesn't blow up from overheating.
Lithium ion batteries definitely cannot do that. If you tried to charge an Li+ battery in 1 second with would definitely destroy the battery, maybe even just set it on fire or blow it up immediately.
@@maxeclipse4065 in theory, if a battery have fictional super cooler, it can be charged in a second.
I'm just worried about "structural" batteries and other such built-into-the-chassis batteries because if they fail, you're going to have to replace the whole car
That's not what that means.
@@crhu319 Well, if the floor board has to come out for repair I hope frame is not included.
Hasn't anyone noticed that during the puncture test the normal battery is at 4.2V (fully charged), while the BYD is at a mere 3.3V (almost discharged)? Quite a difference in the energy stored
What is your source for China being largerly dependend on fossil fuel energy production? China's renewable enery production share is 25% as of 2019, higher than that of the USA.
"What is your source for China being largerly dependend on fossil fuel energy production? " IT IS ITENTIONALLY DISINFORMATION.
This video could have been far more technical instead of emotional. The foil packs don’t look much different than some laptop batteries, and LiFePO4 have been around a while. There must be more to this, but it wasn’t researched properly.
And from what I understand, LiFePO4 batteries have lower energy density than Li-Ion. The safety is a trade off. I wouldn't put it past them to just straight up be lying about the specs. We've seen that over and over already.
There is no mention of energy density?
Yes the battery saves s[ace but how effective is it in providing the Energy for the vehicle.
There is a reason that Tesla does a cylinder battery and it is bercause of the existing infrastructure of manufacturing.
Manufacturing batteries i s massive task and i cant see this batter making much head way for s very long time or at all but is s tep in the right direction.
It would make far more sense for the battery to be used in a very light weight vehicle. It's really all about energy and mass.
When you have a vehicle that weighs 10 to 50 times the weight of the rider most of the energy is squandered/wasted on just moving around a big heavy box.This is an essential point. If the vehicle was light in weight like an electric bike or an electric velomobile it makes a lot more sense as most of the energy is used instead to get the rider to distances fairly quickly. Even a fairly light in weight electric motorcycle could possibly make sense.A vehicle carrying heavy goods would probably not be a light vehicle however.
This is a problem I think too about. Some say the extra weight is only important for starting but once driving, it's less important. The inertia takes over and an ultracapacitator can store the energy when braking. But I am not convinced.
I want the blade battery in my e scooter if it going it make it safer and go longer.
You will probably need a very big scooter as the batteries are 1 metre long...
I've told my Dad about this concept and he is currently awaiting such Cells Arrival. THx
Tesla better take notice of BYD. BYD will make electric cars that everyone can afford. Not just the rich. BYD, also make electric buses, too.
Blade batter looks to be a winner.
Not to mention that Tesla's Apple-esque business strategy. You can't even buy wheel bolt covers without having to verify the vehicle by license plate and serial number and you surely loose all warranty on the wheels if you put it on yourself. Not to mention issues with having it updated and risk of loosing fast charge if you do something Tesla don't like. Not that I'm too keen on Chinese cars but I'd take it any day over a Tesla. Fortunately European makers (I'm European) starts to take notice too. They're fortunately not (yet?) Apple-esque in their business model.
Blade is not a Chinese invention. BYD would/could had never afforded such an R&D.
This technology looks also quite applicable to domestic storage & solar panels, even large-scale grid storage.
Imagine having a large utility scale battery back adjacent to an office building and being able to capture the heat for use in building heating and water heating.
LiFePO4 batteries does not experience the same thermal run away.
In an extreme case they can still generate enough heat to become a hazard.
There's a documented case of a communities grid scale LiFePO4 battery going up in flames because the heat couldn't be managed when something went wrong. LiFePO4 is safer than Li-ion NMC but you still have a very hot battery if something goes wrong.
@@GENcELL2014 That is what he wrote... one is doing it in "extreme case" other is going nuclear in not so "extreme case"->that is why "LiFePO4 batteries does not experience the same thermal run away."
@@Bialy_1 He did not write what I wrote...it's called elaboration...lol.
His statement could be taken as LiFePO4 doesn't have issues during thermal runaway so I'm making sure to point out LiFePO4 is still very dangerous during a thermal runaway.
Li-ion electrolyte is highly flammable, LiFePO4 has far safer electrolyte. That is why Li-ion is so dangerous. They both go "nuclear" with the same types of events but Li-ion liquid electrolyte becomes gaseous when hot that then easily bursts the cell and catches on fire. LiFePO4 just gets crazy hot, sizzles and melts with the potential of everything flammable around catching on fire.
Thermal runaway and internal or external shorts are extreme events regardless of chemistry. We're talking about stuff that has a low percentage of occurring if you aren't abusive to the battery, vehicle, avoid crashes, or get a lemon cell with an internal short from factory.
I think the the blade shape allows for greater expansion therefore higher percentage of silicon
i think china is the biggest investor in green energy.
despite that.. using e.car mean people in the city will inhale less toxic gas and particle from cars
I saw this in my recommended tab like 1 minute after a battery on my table just randomly exploded. Google being a bit creepy right now ngl.
Thanks for this update. It certainly seems like an interesting technology for e-bikes as well.
Chubby moth. I'm contemplating getting a folding E bike. Not sure which one to choose, I ideally would want one with more range.
I think one of the risks of making the cells bigger is that you basically assure that the cells are going to become damaged. Either by flexing (Because they're so long) or by a puncture. I don't think we should be making part of the battery structure replace ANY part of the chassis. Thats asking for trouble.
We already past the energy per volume time, now energy/kg is more important, and we are getting to the metric energy/$.
Wouldn't the additional "surface area" for cooling a disadvantage in colder climates?
Interesting video! It would have been nice to have had some real numbers in terms of energy density per unit volume and weight.
Tesla new battery pack will also act as a structural component to the car.
I am not impressed about the battery chemistry though. Lithium-iron-phosphate is the cheapest but also the less energy dense of the group.
Improvements in safety is a good advantage.
Let’s see how things will evolve with the lithium-metal solid state battery.
Energy density can be a bit misleading when you are comparing different designs. The thing I've always hated about the current round cell design is it takes so many cells to run an EV that a lot of space and weight is taken up by packaging. A design like this can make a less dense chemistry be equally or even more viable in the real world. In the long run though, solid state is probably the best option and it also can work in configurations like these ones.
4:05 - kind of made the while video pointless....
I like the idea, makes for warming or cooling a very simple system, just a thermostat with an airflow control and you can control the airflow for hot or cold areas :).
Liquid cooling works great but we have seen over the years even the best system can get a leak, the VW air cooled engine as well as air cooled Lawnmowers seem to work very reliably for many years and there is nearly always air about ;)
This architect is a big upgrade, but lithium ion is still a transition technology
What is the transition to? Why didn’t you provide more detail?
@@madsolsen9591 ok thanks, my takeaway from the video was that this technology is the cheapest out of current offerings, furthermore, in terms of safety it also acts as an additional structure to the car saving on weight and space. I think your comment might be misinformed.
One of the advantages of the cylindrical format turns out to be its strength (when resisting swelling).
I don't see that being true of the "blade" shape.
Swelling happens when a battery gets hot. These won't get hot
@@jeremybowden3134
Swelling occurs when all those ions try to cram into the same place.
That's why nobody has succeeded in using Silicon, in spite of an electrical advantage (vis-a-vis lithium) of about eight times.
Wait so it's mostly a geometric improvement rather than a new chemistry / composition? What's stopping anyone else from doing this then?
Nothing. Atlis is building a new bad a ass electric truck with a similar style. Tons of range and full charge in under 15 mins.
The chemistry switch is huge- and the long, thin form factor overcomes the reduced energy density.
@@Mattys556 Wait so these are cells are going to be charged parallel?
actually that's a good idea, if they have a ton of smaller capacity cells charging in parallel, you could definitely reduce charge times. It would almost have a super-capacitor quality to it.
@@someotherdude Wait I thought the chemistry they're using for the blades are an established / conventional one, like a lithium iron phosphate cell?
Also in Sweden, they made thin carbon fiber batteries that can be used for both structural and storage purposes.
How about stand still environmental high and low temperature issues.
There is a lot of info on these new bats about safety and performance but not about weather conditions heat/cold max and conditions are not discussed about bat performance under extreme conditions and the effect of longevity and start up.....I am glad to see they are making more safe and lighter/smaller, more endurance bats for car use....
It was evident as early as 2010 that the energy density of battery chemistry was insignificant relative to the structural container which makes up the pack of cells. A 10% increase in energy densities while significant in the lab is dwarfed by the casing weight. Elon himself pointed this out laughingly pointing out what a waste of time it was to do R&D on exotic chemistries when most of the weight problem is the cell casing and the waste of space arranging cylinder shaped cells. Then add more infrastructure to hold the cells in place and as mentioned a cooling system.
Recently came across a carbon foam battery where the energy to weight was higher then any other chemistry but the volume to energy was bigger then any other chemistry. However the foam structure is strong enough to become the car body itself offsetting the volume concern and replacing the heavy body with an energy storage potential greater than any other mobile concept. Apply this to the electric airplane solution and you now have a viable technology for electric aircraft.
So what happens when you crash in a carbon foam car?
it's almost like elon actually knows what he is talking about and isn't just a grifter that got lucky. Interesting concept to consider with the recent media blitz against him...
@@motie38 pretty good question, but I'm sure we can implement the advances we have with other material science with carbon foam and create crumple zones, among other things, to protect passengers.
@@crossup13 passenger safety is only one worry. Batteries are toxic waste. And they're a lot more expensive than a crumpled piece of metal or fiberglass. If you make batteries part of the body, you're raising the cost of an accident significantly. The car becomes so expensive to repair it's now essentially a very expensive disposable container, and now you need a hazmat team at every accident. well, almost.
LiFE cells aren't new, they're less efficient than current cells. These are cheaper, but not even close to the density that other tech is. These are good for home systems and prefer a .2c charge and discharge rate (aka 5hrs charge). Using 80% charge cycle and .2c charge and discharge, the batteries can last for 10,000 cycles. Fast charging drops their life to around 3,000 cycles. Water is way, way more dense than air and can carry substantially more heat as well as be hooked to heat pump to cool the cells below ambient.
This would be revolutionary if Japan didn't already start mass producing sold state batteries lol
batteries NOT battery's, Never use ' for plurals.
@@markylon ya I know my phone auto corrected to that and I was to lazy to fix it lol
@@23william90 Shame on you!
Interesting. building batteries into the car's structure sounds iffy though. what happens to the car when the batteries wear out?
One thing: Don't you think, that any other batteries aren't manufactured with a lot of Fossil-Energy-Input!
I think the point was that ANYTHING made in China is going to consume more fossil fuel and generally less sustainable resources than most other places that might be able to manufacture such a thing at anything close to a comparable price. If you listen closely, the narration script points to the place of manufacturer as being one of the drawbacks, NOT any particular characteristic of this type of battery. The Chinese are all about making things as inexpensively as possible, but that still work pretty good, and all of their manufacturing infrastructure has for decades retained these as top priorities, and we all have benefited from this to some extent. If in this case, the opposite scenario is particularly instructive, one might imagine some product that is manufactured in , let’s say Sweden, for example, and is celebrated because one of its advantages is that its manufacture has a very low environmental impact, including the amount of non-renewably-sourced energy being either extremely small if not totally absent; HOWEVER, this might result in the pro’s and cons list giving the number one slot on the drawbacks list to high costs from the manufacturer all the way to the end user. Again, this is all because of WHERE it’s made, NOT (as before) HOW it’s made, vis a vis consumption of raw material and source of energy used. Either you weren’t really paying attention, or the whole matter is over your head, but it appears you completely missed the point of this video.
@@thatfeeble-mindedboy Yes I know, I just wanted to point out, that those batteries aren't the only ones produced under bad conditions using fossil energy. So that this shouldn't be much of a problem, as with other products it's the same.
@@sanctred Pretty much all the other "normal" batteries are produced in China as well with all said cons (of the video) like using fossil energy and all that stuff. So this shouldn't be the problem, as these batteries aren't particularly produced under those "bad" conditions
I would rather see the work with capacitors, they have supper fast recharge rates, longer lifespan by great amounts, and are overall safeter when discharged.
Yay! i was waiting for the improvement on our batteries! hopefully in future we get longer use as well as fast charge :D Better for the environment is always good!
you know, the probem may not be to cool the cells but to heat them in the winter
Seems an obvious solution to me. Expect incoming flak from internet experts in three, two, one....
flat batteries isnt exactly new, what do you think powers your phone?
And almost all EVs use flat battery packs
no... most EVs use cylindrical cells
@@myMotoring He's missed the concept entirely.
@@Adogsmate4267 yup
@@myMotoring I missed nothing
cylindrical cells are pretty much used exclusively by tesla
the video is nothing more than a click bait title with clickbait picture(that has nothing to do with the video)
There is nothing revolutionary about flat batteries
BMW, Nissan, VW all use flat batteries and have since at least 2015
You are being disingenuous
Why is "made in China" are problem? All our phones, computers, tv-sets etc. are made in China.
THis is one of the best Blade battery videos here and I have viewed most of them. What is correct here, and neglected in others, is the VERY important fact that it can be air cooled. This is a HUGE saving in cost, complexity, weight and volume. Check out Sandy Munros video breakdowns of TEslas and Fords water cooling system to see how big an issue this is. The costs differences just for the battery, neglecting structural cooling, is That BYD has stated their costs are $80/kw while even Teslsa new 4680 cell, (still not in volume production), can't break $110/kw.
You should not be spreading false rumor about BYD supplying Tesla. BYD made an official denial on this unfounded Chinese based gossip. The other factor here is the capacity of BYD to even supply themselves with Blade batteries. They will need a 2nd battery factory next year as their 20GW capacity factory can only supply 200-350K vehicles with a 60k-100Kwh pack. (Do the math).
Lastly, Elon in recent posts has agreed that LFP chemistry will make up 70% of the EV battery market in the future, which means CATL and BYD, or Samsung and Panasonic will have to change directions.
Sooo many battery breakthrough I hear everyday but not a single one released so far
Great and well explained video as always!
Never mind that it’s nonsense
What a beauty
@@rcpmac nonsense like your Tesla 3 argument 😅
The shape of the battery pack is pretty good for cars but I would not call it a breakthrough. LiFePO4 is a common Li-battery material and has some drawbacks compared to Cobalt too. E.g. lower energy density, lower cell voltage and problems with low temperatures.
Great ideas, hopefully others will also think outside of the box and come up with innovative solutions like these. Thank you for sharing this info. New sub.
So a pouch cell with a hard cover? Cobalt had been phased out back when IMR and LiFep04 came on the scene like 10 years ago.
That looks *exactly* like the dilithium crystal that powers my Star Ship! 👽
Cylindrical cells are cheap to manufacture can be rapidly produced in large quantities. That's why your AA batteries are cylindrical, as well as soda cans, canned food, jars, medicine bottles, are all cylindrical in shape.
Other than the chemistry, this has been around for years, the reason Tesla went the different approach is because of the availability of production facilities
ok , and what advantages did the tesla batter bring ?
@@davidegaruti2582 faster production ramp up, and because the cells were already available (for laptops) they could use them right away for their cars
Also the Tesla 4680s will ramp and have a lot of advantages over the current 2170 cells, including volume, and they are working on structural packs as well.
No. This has not been around until BYD invented it.
No. Don't lie. This has not been around until BYD invented it.
The thing about air cooled batteries is you cannot keep them at the optimal temperature when it gets cold. I'm talking really cold. Like, - 30C cold. Electric cars just aren't able to work as well when it gets cold like that.
Good, Chinese lead the innovation all the way...
probably “national security threat” though
@@fannyalbi9040
If there's a war, it's a trade war and China has already won, you just haven't realised yet.
It’s shaped like an air cooled engine fins anybody could of came up with that .the down side to this design is the battery needs to be exposed to air in order to cool properly and it will not work well in hot climates and it will corrode easily
Legit saw the blade and laughed as I was like, wait, they just skipped a step and improved virtually every technical spec related to the batteries longevity? Anyone ever open a cylindrical battery? It’s just a rolled up rectangle.
I guess circle truly does get the square...
what do you mean: „replace the conventional cylinder“? Tesla is basically the ONLY car manufacturer using cylinders ( I guess Rivian and Lucid, too, but there aren’t any volumes to speak of yet…).
@ as I wrote above that is not the case. the vast majority of EV makers use prismatic or pouch cells
There is alot wrong in this video, so let's go over the high points:
1. There's more surface area in a rolled up battery by a LARGE MARGIN. Take that "blade", roll it up, see how it takes up less space?
2. Electric cars don't make power from thin area. It's still taken from the grid, and just as wasteful and potentially polluting as any power you use in your home. It doesn't solve the energy problem, it just shifts it's focus.
3. If anyone REALLY cared about the effects of pollution on the global environment, they'd stop dumping all of their manufacturing on China, a country with the WORST POLLUTION ON THE PLANET.
The Chinese emit 7.38 tons of CO2 per capita per annum. citizens of the USA emit 15.52 tons per capita per annum. Who needs to clean up its act?
*"IN. MY. OPINION. THIS. IS. WHAT. EVERYONE. USES."*
***"**HePtY.BeSt/LuP**"*
***"**HePtY.BeSt/LuP**"*
***"**HePtY.BeSt/LuP**"*
*CERTIFICATED*
LiFePO4 cells are robust and make a viable EV battery. However, they fall short in energy density. Closer every day, but still 25% short. Cold temp performance is also quite poor.
I've been decently interested and involved with Li-ion cells (18650s to be exact) since 2006. They (obviously) used to be solely focused for minor, handheld devices, and, seeing that the technology was NEVER meant for high draw, fast recharge and the cells were dangerous when placed under extreme heat (or damaged)... ALONG with the requirements for a PCB controller...
... it's definitely in the world's best interests to move AWAY from Li-Ion/polymer technologies for vehicles, large devices, and high-voltage concerns.
TBH, I'm surprised that Li-Ion has become so robust, only with exception to its light weight & high energy-density.
It's not 18650 anymore it's 4860 and the gel kind are actually better and it uses no lithium it uses cobalt but yes I think we can make a battery and make it swap out like laptop used to take battery out and put a new one
More surface aria for capacitors allows higher energy density.
just a point that may interest you, two seperate times during the 1980's i read about a man that had a volvo car that ran on water he lived in hednesford near cannock in staffordshire u.k, the other was a man that made his own electric motor to run his car the interesting thing was he had batteries front and rear and while traveling one set of batteries were being charged by the motor, it made it possible to travel 2500 miles on one charge....both were bought by car companies, never to be heard from again.
Pengen ikutan riset tapi terkendala banyak hal.. semoga kedepan saya bisa terus berusaha untuk riset battery
We've had Square batteries for sometimes now even rectangular batteries. What's new the idea is to use the shape of our battery to our advantage as it relates to thermal dynamics, what we need to create is a battery that creates and stores its own electronic energy to be distributed.
they contain these round cells.
I feel like there is a reason why a company that invested as much into battery development as Tesla choose cylyndrical designs. Flat batteries have been used in electronics for 20+ years. It likely has to do with cooling or the abillity to diagnose and reuse single cells instead of recycling the entire pack. That last one would be more enviromentally friendly and cheaper. Not to mention if a cell turns bad they can disable it with software, leaving the remaining houndreds or sometimes thousands of other cells operational. I guess we will see what design comes out on top after the warranty expires. Cheers to new ideas though!
Tesla can't innovate anything. That's why.
You did not mention the lifetime of these cells. For fast do they lose capacity? This is very crucial to judge whether they are really better than traditional lithium-ion cells
They are way better actually, the life span is much longer. The big drawback is energy density (which is lower). It's not a new technology just a new idea with the design. The hope is that you can remove enough heat-sinks to make the less dense battery still worth it if that makes sense.
Lithium Iron Phosphate or LFP cathodes are not good for fast charging. They are cheap to make and *can* last longer than more expensive Nickel-rich chemistries. Although I agree with the other points mentioned in the video, I would like to add that a large form factor like the blade battery makes the replacement of individual cells really expensive and difficult as each cell is so big now.