Jack Marston - Vicious Cycle Of The Van Der Linde Gang
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- Опубликовано: 19 апр 2024
- The tragedy of Jack Marston the last victim of the great Dutch Van Der Linde's philosophy of the Red Dead Redemption games.
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“Anyway I’ll shut the hell up” lmao jeez man ain’t no need to do yourself like that
Someone had to 😂
I think if Jack had got to have John, Abigail, Arthur, Uncle, and Hosea around during his whole childhood, I think Jack wouldve had the best family a boy coming from where he did could have.
Some might say someone like say Uncle didnt have much to offer, and in a sense he didn't, however, Uncle is the one who pressed John to build Beechers Hope and ultimately get his family back, so Uncle actually did have good to offer, underneath the drunken and lazy exterior.
Uncle just didn’t want too bumming randomly around anymore
As John said, he was useful, in his own useless way
Jack's 'old family' the gang although probably affected Jack a lot, The gang did break apart when he was just a little kid , so his concept of a normal family was slightly flawed from the beginning. I feel like after the rdr1 story, there is really only two outcomes of Jack, that he lives a miserable crime life, or he actually takes advantage of the modern world and becomes successful. There are many outcomes of what Jack can become, and his story is the last uncompleted story of the van der Linde gang, but it wouldn't really make an rdr3, since it would become a completley different genre, since the wild west was long gone by the time Jack shot Edgar Ross. In the 1910's there were very few small gangs left, but they were mostly in isolated areas, and died out on themselves. Jack still had the chance to make his parents proud, because just because he shot Edgar Ross, that doesn't really make him a gunslinger and the law wouldn't really have much reason to try and hunt him down and kill him. His story would be an interesting one, perhaps Rockstar can start a new franchise about him.
Thank you. I'm tired of everyone acting like him humbling Ross makes his a "Gunslinger" he just paid the price back to Ross
By killing ross he because an outlaw because he shot and killed an retired government agent so probably he will be hunted @@JayL03940
Mafia 4 would be a great game if jack lives a crime life but def not rdr 3 bc the wild west is long tamed when jack killed ross
@@JayL03940 it does though, that's the theme. That the cycle of violence will continue.
@channel45853 This was a one and done for Jack though that's why there's only 1 mission for him
That last quote by Dutch when he said ‘when I’m gone they’ll just create a new monster’ is actually insane. I can see Jack Marston just become a ruthless unhinged outlaw with so much rage and hatred for society. The theory of him committing su*cide is also very likely. Overall, a very tragic fate/future awaits him as well.
I don't see Jack at the kind to kill himself, not by his own hand. Even at his worse, he is suicidal by the act of seeming like he is waiting for someone to kill him. Basically if you make him bad honor he becomes Dutch. Angry at the world and wanting to die but cause as much pain as possible first before someone kills him. Good honor is just sad at the turn he made in his life but there is still something there that could maybe save him. He is still as smart as ever and polite and even kind but he's broken.
he is confirmed to have lived up to his 90s with an unspecified death within the 1990s, so whatever he did he probs died of old age
@@matoiiveyy2005Where was that even confirmed? Because the only time i heard that information was on a youtube short, that didn't have any source; so it's most likely a bullshit claim and we don't know anything about Jack life after RDR1.
@@enar7207 I could personally at least see the government drafting Jack once they see his skills. I mean he is able to be as good of a shot with dead eye as John. After the war maybe being let go due to services done
The new monster was john himself
When Dutch kills Cornwall, I had a realization that doing so may have been in *his* best interest, actually. However, it would also put the gang in great peril.
Cornwall was the one who wanted Dutch and only Dutch, which we see repeatedly as anytime he shows up he's yelling about "Van der Linde!". We also know he's the contractor for the Pinkertons, which would be why Milton then early on is only interested in taking Dutch in and not everyone else-to please Cornwall.
Dutch, by eliminating Cornwall, he basically puts the fire under *everyone* in the gang and not just himself. The Pinkertons now have the pressure of needing to scatter them at any cost, which means trying to kill each and every one of them. Dutch, by causing all the chaos he does, is basically dragging everyone down into the same pit of danger he's in, which insulates him and isolates them from the outside world, forcing them to stick with him.
Of course, I don't think Dutch does anything for any one single reason. I think killing Cornwall appeals to his sense of morality and justice, just like fighting the army with the natives does. Despite both being moments where he's acting in his own self interest, they both appeal to his ideals and "grand vision", which I think make them irresistible actions to him. He can not only do what he thinks benefits him most, but also have a justification that makes him feel heroic and just. And so, I don't think Dutch is someone who is purely manipulative and never falters to emotions.
I think in addition to his "ideals" he's also in a panic spiral after the death of Hosea and the Guarma expedition. You'll notice his plan to "make a lot of noise, get some money and dissappear!" is basically the same plan Hosea had for the Saint Denis Bank job. A plan, mind you, that Dutch *didn't like,* but was convinced to do. Hosea and Abigail make an explosion as a distraction while the gang robs the bank, then they'd run off and dissappear somewhere far away. However, the plan failed. Yet, after Guarma, Dutch nearly admits for the first time to Arthur that he has no plan. Then he winds up in this spiral of "commotion, rob, run", basically doing Hosea's last plan in a loop since he can't figure his own.
During this period where he dosen't know what to do is also when loyalty is at the front of his mind and he's trying to make sure he can ensure it at *any* cost, eventually leaving John and Arthur to die due to the fact his tactics aren't working on them. Thus, the chaos that makes them *all* targets of the law rather than just himself is a great way to (in his mind) weed out the people who really have his back and identify the ones who would've turned him into the law if they still could.
In conclusion, I think all the smoke and noise (and especially Cornwall's death) may have been partially due to a panic spiral, but also as a way to ensure loyalty from his gang by *forcing* them to ride and die by him.
As a person that played rdr2 before rdr1 I found it a nice detail that Jack at the end of rdr1 is wearing john's hat and a jacket that looks very similar to arthur's jacket
The many teachings of a myriad of professors that was the schooling for Jack Marston is the ultimate tragic story of them all in RDR , following the death of Abigail Jack is now utterly alone in the dying Wild West with little more then the experiences as a youngster with men of good intentions but very warped morality ; should he become a killer himself would be a shock to none who have played
I mean he’s an orphan now, he has no friends, his parents were orphans so no biological family, and the gang are either all dead or completely lost to Jack. I wouldn’t be surprised if for the next following years he would’ve drank himself to a stupor every night. I think he pulls himself out though eventually and gets his act together.
Idk if we can count Jack as an outlaw since he beat Ross in a duel
In Mexico too as well, so he might be an outlaw there but the reach of their law enforcement ends at the border, unlike the U.S. and the Pinkertons apparently
@@Skeletongentleman7808US jurisdiction ends, law enforcement just doesn't like to follow the law LOL
Yeah I do get sick of people crying over Jack supposedly becoming an outlaw. He most likely doesn’t. He won a duel(which weren’t even enforced by the US government back then) in Mexico, which is outside the US government’s reach, and then went home. Nothing you do as Jack besides the side missions is canon.
@@lukethelegend9705it’s up to interpretation depending on how you perceived the themes of the story. For example, duel or no, Ross was a highly respected government agent. You can’t logic an answer.
You are the worst type of person to talk about art with making it about lore like that’s why people find the story thought provoking and then getting annoyed when asked to engage with a different opinion 🙄
idk if you saw my comment asking for this video or not but I'm so pumped you finally made it!
Yessir, told ya i read the comments. Great suggestion, i hope it was worth the wait!
I just realised how bad the thumbnail sounds💀💀
Nah that’s vile 💀💀💀
How
I see Jack becoming a gun for hire during Prohibition. Like maybe he served during WW1, came back and got in deep during prohibition, mobsters, G-Men, Bonnie and Clyde and maybe at the end of Rdr3 he could fake his death or cut a deal and become a writer
What if Arthur made a deal at van horn with Milton to give away Dutch for him, john, tilly, Abigail, Sadie, and Jack to get away and start a new life
I feel like once Cornwall was dead all bets went off the table for the gang. It was Cornwall who only wanted Dutch, which is why Milton only wanted Dutch. By the time Cornwall was gone I think they comitted to hunting them all down.
Any deal would've wound up the same as what happened to John in RDR1 at some point, I imagine.
@@MidnightLobster7 This. Considering the way we witness John get screwed over in the end of RDR1, Arthur and anyone he had with him probably would've gotten the same treatment. Besides, Arthur was quite visibly ill; the Pinkertons would've taken full advantage of that, knowing he didn't have much time left anyway.
Ross and Milton saw the woman and children the same as the adult men of the gang, as criminals.
It's backed up in how Ross mocks John about Abigail and Jack almost consistently during RDR1.
Honestly, I don't think it would have changed as they wouldn't hold to the deal.
Maybe Dutch dies in the shootout, maybe he doesn't. But the women and children don't survived and aren't forgiven.
Like someone said, "they ain't the forgiving sort"
Bro I really felt sorry for Jack at the end of my last playthrough of RDR1. I used my scope to take a closer look at the graves and I realized Abigail died only 3 years after John according to the dates on the graves and Jack was left with nobody.
Rdr is one of the best tragedies in story telling
Gta?
@@JayL03940RIP Johnny
@@JayL03940from gta III
Jack really did pay for all the sins the gang members had when you really think about it, he didn’t deserve all the violence and death he’s experienced. Edgar Ross ruined his life because he had a personal vendetta against Dutch’s gang because his boss (Milton) died fighting against them.
Jack is only 19 in the end of the game and he has no friends, no biological family, and everyone from the gang is either dead or they’re lost to Jack cause he has no idea where there are.
I feel so bad for him. Plus the fact that he has the family farm now and it’s a walking reminder of his family’s death, I’d have the blues everyday.
John not moving on completely from his old life is what sort of set them up for a better future. If not for protecting Mr. Gette he wouldn't of been able to buy beachers hope and if it wasn't for saddie, Charles and him going after micah he wouldn't have been able to pay off the bank without doing more bad bounty hunter or whatever jobs. He paid that place off cash with the score he took from that cabin. He turned out just fine.
This is exactly why the third game should be about Jack. He should be given a chance to let go of his hate and TRULY break the cycle. Some people may say the time wouldn’t fit but I say that dosen’t matter because this game series is about the Marston family and Jack is the last one just having him kill Ross and live the rest of his life as a miserable outlaw is a waste of potential
I suppose the best thing that came out of Ross's murder for Jack, is it takes place in Mexico. Which at least gives him a chance to disappear in America. He kills him in a different country, technically no witnesses, Ross's body might end up washed downstream delaying discovery too? Of course somebody might piece it together, but there's a decent enough chance of his murder going unsolved, could have been Mexican bandits or some killer hiding in the countryside that got him after all. Plus I'm sure a guy like Ross had a decent number of disgruntled enemies he directly arrested that would fill up that suspect pool. But yeah, best outcome is Jack perhaps escapes the reach of the Law, publishes a book or two and hopefully lives and dies in secret or possibly earns an official pardon like Frank M. Calton? Would kinda fit with the pursuit of redemption in these games, Jack turning over a new leaf early and working for redemption, not just from the Pinkertons but a high-up government body?
He did asked about Ross 3 people including his wife and brother just before he died. I guess they have a pretty decent Idea of his appearance.
Havent seen the video yet but I know its gonna be an awesome analysis :D
I always just cheated against Jack in the race
jack lost everything by the end of rdr1
His skills, money, life? No he can still improve and be better than Arthur and John
@@JayL03940 no, he killed Ross, showing that he is just as bad as Arthur and John
@channel45853 difference is this was a humbling and revenge not for money
Being only 19 in 1914, I can easily see Jack joining the Army or the Marines and fighting in World War 1...
I never let Jack win bc you have to win the race to get gold. I just feel he is a brat that doesn’t get his way and then he does realizes how important his dad was when he dies in RDR and gets his revenge. He finally realizes what his dad has to sacrifice for him
Makes sense for red dead 3 to be jacks story, and the conclusion of the series.
Would need a whole lot of new characters.
@@lewisjohnston7077Red Dead 2 did that
Nah, let's get new people
The perfect ending is how tragic it is for Jack in the end. He's all alone, wanting to die.
@@averageguy9549 why would we want a suicidal Jack Marston ?
Now i think about it in rdr1 you can get pardon letters I wonder why John Marston could not have used it in the story because when you use it pardons all your crimes in the open world
Plot Fate
The story of both red dead games is currently a big tragedy as every bits of hope for a better future Arthur, John and Abigail had was put into Jack, and he threw it away the moment he seek revenge for his father. Because of the past haunting them, the world refusing to forgive them, and the actions John made that can satisfy his desires in the moment but leave consequences in the future, Jack was never able to break out of the cycle either, and he couldn't reach redemption. I think there is a great opportunity for people much smarter than me at Rockstar to write an amazing RDR3 game about Jack. It can follow him right after the event of RDR1, running away from the people who will be gunning for him, while at the same time repeating the same mistakes the Dutch's boys made in the past, and ultimately through bloodshed and perseverance maybe he can somehow find a way to break the cycle of violence, and make a proper life for himself, or the best one he could in the world he live in.
Tbh I don’t blame John for the fact of killing the guys back to the ranch I blame the store clerk John tried to say his real name quietly so no one could hear him the store clerk is the one who just said it out loud I think if the clerk didn’t say John marston out loud or at all that guy wouldn’t have heard him and John wouldn’t have shot them in self defense he’ll he even told his son to hide behind the log so he wouldn’t see
I think if we get an RDR3, it definitely needs to follow Jack and how he dealt with all the trauma as an adult. If he decided to do anything about it (obviously after the ross situation)
That was RDR II before it came out and they ended up making a prequel
I like how in rdr1 he feels a lot like a emo who's only reading books (just like how nowadays teens like to be on their phones all day).
Well can you try make a detailed video on John's redemption
maybe John had his redemption same as arthur as both arthur and John died In order for their closed ones to get a chance to live
so does John and arthurs redemption bring value as Jack is all alone now
Jack Marston is heading straight into World War 1, Prohibition, and the Dust Bowl. Despite what people think about the American Wild West. It didn't end until shortly after Arizona and New Mexico became states. Jack's story should be down to the choices of the player. Does Jack enter society as a scholar, a lawman, a rancher, or a criminal? Does he become the knight he reads in his books? Or does he become another Dutch?
Do you play as low honor or high honor more?
Nah it seems jack didnt take it on. He just chased down ross in mexico too. No jurisdiction back in america. Also you can find a book he wrote in gta 5 somewhere. This reference of his character implying he did end up becoming a writer like he wanted. Plus him growing up puts him right at the start of ww1. Most likely he could have escaped any problems if he was found out and fought for the country instead of doing jail time. Thats my head canon.
I think he had an alright time with the gang everyone loved that little boy. It might not be the standard. But it’s better than some people got at that time. And as far as him going after Ross hell I would’ve done the same. You come to there life and take him and his mom away. To use them as incentive for his father only to break the deal in the end. That’s a scumbag move. Ross spelled in bullets equals RIP
Can we see something about Grimshaw maybe? I feel like her death in the last mission in Chapter 6 is overlooked
I always believed that the Dutch gamg are the villain in the red dead world and we are simply watch from there perspective
This game Is a masterpiece
Arthur I’ve got a plan run away to Tahiti
They should of done a mission where they want to tahiti but as a dream. Would of been pretty cool.
Rdr 3 should be about jack
Agreed! I hope that it would be about Jack at first struggling with his inner turmoil, but then slowly but surely turning into someone who manages to regain his footing, find a girl, and then eventually settle down with a family, while still having an ongoing story arc like the other red dead redemption games. For some reason i am thinking Guido Martelli, the successor of Angelo Bronte.
As much as it would be fascinating to see him walking out of his mental state of self deprecation, depression, living with the past etc. but considering the timeframe, would it be interesting?
@@maciej5866 I think what would be cool if it becomes a hybrid between the new modern age, and the very fringe last remaining parts of the wild west. Jack's character symbolizes the new age, and to see that explored would be quite interesting.
And Jack joining the mexican revolution could bring back some of that old western feel. Tough i do like to point out that my idea of this is that the game's time would remain in 1914 and not go beyond that.
Alot of people who wish to see Jack's story continued wish to go beyond 1914 into the first world war and perhaps the 1920's, but for me it would be more cool if it stays in 1914.
@@mickeyadaptus2215 I'm afraid it wouldn't be a western anymore. Broadwalk Empire series is set in the 1920s this is prohibition time, it's early mafia years. Of course RDR focuses on rural areas but still cars would be a common feature. It wouldn't be western anymore, and it wouldn't be a mafia theme game neither (and making a mafia game out of RDR isn't the best idea). You can already see it with Angelo Bronte and his organisation.
I recall a movie with a setting similar to this, set in the west in the 1920s starring Bruce Willis called "Last man standing". I haven't seen it tho, but I think I will watch it now
@@maciej5866 The one thing is that Jack doesn't have a true proper ending to his character arc. The one from the Red Dead Redemption 1 Epilouge was only one mission, and it was left quite ambigious.
I think at this point i wouldn't even quite care wether its not a true western if it means continuing Jack's story for a third game, or atleast a spin off.
One thing to note is that both Red Dead Redemption games have always been focussing on the dying days of the wild west era, rather then its golden age, so it was inevitable they would write themselves in such a corner by doing that.
what the van der linde's were doing wasnt "wrong" until blackwater
I always thought people assuming Jack Marston went on to become a productive member of society after brutally murdering a retired lawman was foolish and they didn't pay attention to either story in either game. Jack chose revenge just like John did with Micah. That choice will have consequences. He chose to become a murderer, whether it was justified or not you don't just walk away from that and "become a writer." Because of one single Easter egg in GTA 5. No most likely Jack ended up at the hangman's noose not long after the murder of Ross was investigated. He was really dumb how he handled it too, introducing himself to members of Ross's family like they wouldn't ever tell the law. "Yes sir i told that young man where to find my husband/brother and then Ross mysteriously dies!" Gee i wonder who could've done that?
The killing was outside of US jurisdiction and happened in an area full of bandits and wild animals
He never told them his name, he could change apperance too
You probably heard this a lot of times but you really sound like a young version of Hosea😂😂😂😂
there should not be rdr3 atleast not about van der linde gang and should be before 1899 when there were more outlaws!
Jack made it out with all the knowledge, skills, and still young, I don't see how he has it bad
He kept the revenge and outlaw cycle going that killed everyone in the gang and was something neither Arthur nor John wanted for him.
How? He killed the man that took his father away. That's it, does he continue it?@macojo2477
@@JayL03940no maybe someone will want revenge for Edgar Ross can’t kill an agent and get away with it
@@Youslay_losers how would they know he did it?
@@JayL03940 He spoke with Ross's brother like two minutes before shooting Ross. And he was asking around town about Ross a lot. A good investigator (or even just Ross's brother) could easily piece that together
Really hated abigail in epilogue, most of the fights he got into, wasn't much of the choice for john
real. 😞
As the old saying goes
“Those who don’t know history are doomed to repeat it”
Cool video.
262 views in 24 minutes?? you fell off hard (I am sarcastic)
No need to be rude
Still more than you could get
My guess: Mac Callendar is Jack’s biological father. Kid looks nothing like John.
He is John's kid, no matter the blood. John was the only one to actually accept the role of father. The rest of the gang couldn't be bothered
Abigail's just one of the worst characters in the series.
This is one of the worst takes I have seen online.
@@channel45853 based on what? She was bipolar towards John throughout the game and epilogue and RDR1, she Is suspected of being the second rat of the game. We constantly contradicted herself when it came to John and everyone else in the game. And she would pawn her son off randomly throughout the game on other gang members. She even blamed the kidnapping of her son on everyone else. Quite a great parent, loving woman, and loyal gang member there.
@@andrewkilmer9772you sound bitter. They were a family and Jack being kidnapped was on Dutch for messing with the Braithwaite and the Grey families. The gang members weren’t watching camp good enough. Quit blaming Abigail. The men constantly got everyone in trouble and caused mayhem.
@@andrewkilmer9772 she just acts like a woman, but ig you haven't talked to many of them
@@attorneyvevo I talked to plenty of them. I work with plenty of them. None of them act like Abigail. Your logic is flawed. And your brain is clearly small.
Oh shit i just realized, Jack SAW the entire gang as his actual family.
So when the gang split up as violently as it did, it was akin to him witnessing his own family being abused.
And to then also see his own folks die one by one after another, that's trauma right there.
Jack Marston is a victim of vicarious death and torture. No wonder he's depressed, and there's no wonder why he escaped into the world of books. He's escaping reality.