Opponent Exposing Cards? Here’s What You Should Do
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- Опубликовано: 4 авг 2024
- In this video, our caller shares a poker story from his experience at the Horseshoe Casino in Indiana. What would you do if the player next to you kept unintentionally exposing their cards? Brad found himself in this exact dilemma and faced a moral and strategic quandary.
Join us as we explore:
The setting and context of Brad's poker game.
The dilemma of using exposed information.
Discussions on the ethical implications.
Potential solutions and best practices for such situations.
Whether you're a seasoned poker player or just a fan of the game, this scenario will make you think about fairness and integrity at the table. Share your thoughts on how you would handle this situation in the comments below.
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0:00 Introduction
0:11 Setting the Scene
2:41 The Dilemma
3:40 Moral Quandary and Solutions
7:51 Closing Thoughts
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What would you have done after telling the guy multiple times?
At that point if I happen to catch a glance at his cards while I’m in my seat as normal, I would have a clear conscious
I have dealt with this very situation multiple times at Parx over the years and have had to call the floor.
The floor was called only after telling him myself and after the dealer warning didn’t appear to be sufficient.
You could call out his hand if he folds preflop - the people who acted before him aren't at a disadvantage when they limp/raise - they're acting before him anyway - they're likely acting before you see his cards. When you see his cards, if he folds, you can tell the table - he had xx - now you have no advantage, and you're not impacting the action of the guy who exposed his cards, and anyone acting after you will have the same information as you. The risk there is if you're wrong, but nothing wrong with "not 100% but looked like a Jack of clubs and a middle diamond".
Keep telling him, tell the dealer, tell the table. Brad was trying to do the right thing.
But definitely don’t change where you are looking so that you miss action. Don’t deprive yourself of information to avoid accidentally seeing unprotected cards.
it really comes down to fairness to the table, so yeah, I think you still have to do something. I'd just punt to the floor. Not my problem, I don't get paid to deal with those issues.
That being said, knowing the floor at the Horseshoe Hammond (understaffed, always busy), I wouldn't want to dump that problem on them either
In high school, the door to the girls locker room was open , and I tried to not look. ( too obviously)
I absolutely would have looked. I don't think I would even have tried to hide it.
At Parx this happened to me. I was in 6 seat (I like the middle) and the guy in 5 was repeatedly doing exactly what the caller mentions. I spoke to the guy twice and then I told the dealer. 2 players then asked for a seat change button and one asked me "when are you leaving?"
Warn the player once. If they ignore it then milk him dry.
if they're in the next seat they get 2 warnings from me, especially if the table isn't very roomy, after that, it's a you problem.
I’ve dealt with this multiple times and the worst part is that when you can see the card so can others. In one situation, the floor came over and gave the guy a warning which straightened out the situation.
This is not in Indianapolis, this is Horseshoe Hammond near Gary IN. 15 miles from downtown Chicago. Before Covid they had 28 tables and had the biggest and best games in the Chicago area. Now they have 8 tables and barely get a single 2/5 going. As far as I know the plan is to demolish the casino in the coming few years.
Rivers Des Plaines is the place to play in Chicago these days. Room has a ton of annoying rules and the wait is long, but once you get seated the games are great.
You warn them twice and after that it's on them.
I was once in this situation with a drunk to my left who was making huge over-bets with every hand and basically ruining the game. I warned him 3 times to protect his hand, but he continued exposing his cards and massively over-betting pots. Eventually, I have JT and he raises PF with T6. Long story, short we got it all in on the flop with no pair no draw, and JT held up. The dealer's jaw was on the floor, and I said, "you heard me tell him 3 times to protect his hand". I am sympathetic to elderly players and novices, but drunks can GF themselves.
Lol ruining the game by making massive overbets every hand....my guy you think about poker weird imo.
@@bryan-still-a-poker-player I get what you're saying, but folding until you get a good enough hand to play for stacks even against a wide range is boring.
@OneEyedJack01 lol he is overbetting every hand and you think you have to play tight
@@OneEyedJack01yeah, bro... all you have to do against players Luke that is flop top pair and then just call him down. It's not hard
@@bryan-still-a-poker-player If he's the only player in the hand sure, but you're gonna have a table full of other potentially competent players to consider.
I’m at the table to make money. If I can constantly see someone’s cards I tell them 2-3 times and after that I go full exploit mode if they keep showing. You’re doing nothing wrong, take advantage of it otherwise the next guy that sits next to him will
The deeper issue here isn't the advantage it gives you vs. the player exposing the cards, it is the advantage you get versus the rest of the table. That's the tricky part to manage.
I think a general table announcement of, "i see the cutoff's cards" PF is the right approach.
@@newstandardaccount I'm kinda between the two. if it's the next seat they get 2 warnings and I tell the table what they're holding, if it's further away they get 1 warning. After that, I'm not there to give away free money.
@@bipolarminddroppings I understand but you're gaining an advantage against players who have no control over the other player exposing his cards.
Consider - what if me and my friend were playing at your table, and we were flashing our hands to one another? You'd probably be upset and rightly so - we'd both be gaining EV against you and everyone else.
Something tells me you do not warn them that you can see their cards at all in the first place... 😂
See a lot of comments referencing warn the player once after that its their problem...
but its really every other players problem, moreso than the one who obviously doesnt care.
I suppose the solution would be to stand up for a break, let a floorman know whats happening and that you've given two heads ups already, allow him to come watch a few hands and once he sees whats happening, He can warn the player.
If the player still does it, he'd likely be removed at that point. Its no reason to ruin the table or game for everyone else.
So I get the caller told him twice he could see his cards, but he never offered to show him a way to look at his cards that would block him from seeing. A lot of newer players at the poker table are too scared to ask for help/advice I think cause in their mind it makes them look weak and like easy targets.
An example of this is from my game last night where it was 1/2 cash and folded to the blinds, SB says “you wanna chop?” And BB says “what” and SB says “you wanna take our blinds back and chop the pot?” Bb says “no thanks” and SB angrily folds. I took a minute to explain to the Bb that they take so much rake out of the pots that if you play blind v blind heads up, in the long run no one usually wins except the house. He said “oh, I gotcha, thanks for explaining that to me, I’ve never heard that before. I’ll chop from now on”
As someone who came up in poker playing online, it took me a while to learn some of the conventions of playing live.
I had a similar experience but I'd already told the table I was an online player without much live experience, the sb asked me to chop and I said "why would we do that? My hand is decent enough," and he explained about the rake quickly so I agreed.
I'm sorry bro, but explaining a chop to a rookie and "showing him a way to block his cards" are two extremely different types of situations, and you come off naive not realizing that.
One is a situation that requires intimate knowledge of a mostly infrequent process in regards to the total amount of hands played. Another is just blatant common sense and requires no special instruction whatsoever. You have to explain to someone the tactics for not exposing their hand to others??? "Put your face down to the felt and very close to your cards..." 🤣
We have to educate players how to sit in their chair next.
@@MagnificentMuracI’m naive? Are you ok? You know an adderal addiction is just as bad as being a coke head, right? I hope you take care of yourself, bud.
I appreciate you trying to help your fellow man, because someone did it for me. After you tell him, just take the info and use it to your advantage. Under the assumption that someone else in your situation would do the same thing and it all averages out.
I did this once, it was an older guy and he very rudely replied "Then don't look at it!" and keep complaining how stupid I was for the next few minutes. After that I stopped reminding in such situations - especially to people using one hand to look at their cards, there is no point in telling them anything. If someone is careful but the cards are still not protected well, then I might say once if I have a feeling that my feedback will be appreciated
This happened to me at the Venetian, maybe a decade ago. I told the guy a few times, he ignored me, then when a floor walked by I called him over and told him and he looked annoyed, told the guy to be more careful, and walked off. It killed the mood of the table and didn't change the behavior of the guy. Since then it's just been I'll give two warnings and then do my best to not look.
I've been in that situation numerous times, and I have always told them that they are showing their cards. That is the only sportsmanlike thing to do.
This reminds me of playing baseball years ago. Occasionally the catcher wouldn’t conceal the signs properly and runner on 2nd base would be aware of pitch coming and could alert batter. Fastball coming. Sit and rip. But So many times runner would screw it up. After awhile I’d prefer not to know what pitch was coming and rather play it straight up. There’s my baseball analogy lol u the best thanks Bart
Lots of people in the comments say it's not their responsibility to do anything, and they'd just use the free info. I'm curious, for those people, if you're in seat 1, but can see seat 6 looking at seat 5's hand every hand, are you cool with that? You figure the advantage seat 6 gets over you from doing that is just part of the game?
One should tell seat five, without saying anything about seat six. If seat five asks how can you tell? Tell them it’s obvious.
I had this happen to me in a tournament. I had warned the player three times that he was exposing his cards then I notified the house also warned the player that he is not allowed to expose his cards. Then the tournament director gave me permission to announce his cards every time they were displayed to me to the entire table. Eventually, he stopped exposing his cards. He kept failing to cover his cards repeatedly even after that.
Former Floor Person here, I would advise the player to protect his hand if he doesn't want others seeing his cards. It is up to him. He could play his hand Open if he wanted to after all. So in the end it is on the player to protect his cards if he doesn't want anyone knowing his hole cards. And absolutely let the table know that he is exposing to you. The players would not want to play unless everyone also knew the hole cards too. I would tell the floor every time and the floor would Dead his hand and show everyone. Then That player would leave.
This happened to me just last night, young guy on my left, 10 handed cash game, table full. the first couple of times it was an unintentional look from me, I had to do what the caller did and just keep my eyes to my right so I wouldn't see.
One hand that I had an unfair advantage was kind of funny and I relate to Bart's example, where I thought for sure I saw A/6 os, and I folded because I thought he had a pair of aces and I had pocket tens, but I was very wrong, two other player go all in on the river, the board was A, 2, 3, J, 5. The players hand was actually 4/6 os and he hit top straight on the river lol...
I've run into this, the floor told the player, "protect your hand, or you're going to be banned for 24hrs"
The rule is simple. It’s your responsibility to protect your hand. If you’re not trying to look at his card use the information. IF anything - TWICE letting him know is above and beyond
What would Postle do?
I had a situation like this. Told him once, he didn’t stop exposing them. I thought for sure I saw A5 of spades. And on an all heart flop he was betting into me. Once the 4th heart came I bluff jammed and he had A5 of hearts. Never understood how I was so sure they were black cards, but they weren’t. Maybe the shadows lol. Never tried to use unfair info to make a move after that
When I've seen this in the past, the player gets a warning from the floor, and then the floor instructs the dealer to kill the hand and expose the players cards anytime it happens after that. This was a little different, where the player was litterally picking the cards up off the table and putting them in front of their face, so it was more obvoius to the rest of the table. In this case, it's a little more tricky
How is the dealer going to know when it happens? In this case I am assuming only the player next to the guy exposing his hand could see the cards.
One example that comes to mind is the following. I was sitting next to a guy in a wheelchair who clearly had had a stroke and he HAD to hold the cards up high to see them. I let the rest of the table know this, and him know it. He understood but really had no choice. From then on, I would look the other way until he put the hand down. Sometimes, though, the rest of the table could see. This was in Atlantic City, and everyone was pretty good about not trying to take advantage. Was a relatively friendly game.
That said, your situation was different. The guy was just not paying attention. If, as you say, you kept trying to look away, I actually agree that anything else is probably bad for the table. Certainly revealing his hand is not good poker etiquette. Don’t know what else you can do.
Hey you looked the guy in eye and told him twice..."I asked him twice" movie reference HOME FRONT... see what happens after you ask someone twice and they don't listen
I think this happens all the time but in the most egregious case I was like the caller where I could see the cards virtually every time. I was in the 4 seat and the guy was in the 5 seat. I let him know three times. The dealer let him know 2-3 times to protect his hand. On the next hand he did it again and I looked at the dealer. The dealer basically shrugged his shoulders and told me to not say anything more. It was weird and I felt better when the guy got felted twice shortly afterwards and left.
If it's someone who has some sort of handicap that might cause them to not protect their hand, I think it's morally correct to warn them but that's a personal judgement call and if one chooses to exploit it without warning the player, that's on them. I have played with those who have multiple sclerosis or other such afflictions that render them unable to protect their hand as easily as I might be able to and in such cases I make a point of warning them and try my best to not look at their hand.
The only time it really bothers me is when they are showing their hand to others but not myself, thus putting me at a disadvantage against others who are able to see the hand whereas I cannot. In such an instance I have every right to make an issue of it, whether the person is showing their hand on purpose or on accident. Ultimately it's a player's personal responsibility to protect their hand and everyone knows this or at least they should.
I was next to a drunk a-hole and he was flashing cards. I folded when I saw he had AA. 2 hands later I stacked him with jacks full over a A high flush. I tipped the dealer 15$ who he was giving shit to. We both smiled as he stumbled off 😅😅
Horseshoe Hammond used to be THE stop until they closed for COVID and basically never came back.
I let them know one time that they need to protect their hole cards. I let the dealer know what I saw if I'm still in the hand so he can inform other players. Just tell the player if I'm not in the hand.
Anything exposed After that isn't my problem. Up to dealer and mgmt.
At Horseshoe Baltimore, a guy at the other end of the table (seat 6) was looking at his cards in a way that was definitely showing them to 5 and 7.
I told the dealer. I told the floor. Floor warned him 3 times but still did nothing.
Floor asked ME what I wanted him to do (sarcastically). I said remove him from the table.
Like caller said, it was giving am advantage to those 2 players over the table.
Floor did nothing. I asked for a table change, as did another person. Guy ended up just leaving.
Options: 1. If you want to be completely transparent, (and you have already warned him) The next step is to tell the dealer "Please tell seat 5 to stop exposing his hand." If that doesn't solve the issue, the next time just announce to the table '9-2 of diamonds exposed' and if the dealer asks where, just point to 5 seat.... 2. If you have warned him twice (My rule is once) Then just look. I just dealt with this at the Nugget in Vegas; There is a player with poor eyesight (so bad sometimes the dealer would have to point to where his downcard was if it slid up against the rail and this dude couldn't find it....!!!) and the 4 seat had been warned by the 5 seat twice and I could still see his cards from the 6 seat.......he was a HORRIBLE player. calling with 4th pair on a 3 flush card board. dropped racks......luckily it was limit.......
What I find kinda funny is that the guy exposing his cards is described as really nitty and hardly playing any hands, so if he does get into a hand, most of the table probably has a pretty good idea what he has already.
I wait until a second hand is exposed, then say "careful, you're showing me your cards". It has to be really bad for me to say anything further. The problem is, people like this tend to be bad players, and the others don't want such players disturbed. If you call out his hand or nag him about it, the others are going to be mad at YOU, not him. That said, when he's away from the table, I'll mention the situation to the dealer in earshot of the other players.
I never tell the player, I always mention it to the dealer. Sometimes I see where another player is looking at the exposed cards and not having an issue with the information.
I was gonna call in a similar hand. The guy in the 4 hole next to me would lift noses cards in a way it was impossible for me not to see.
They run free busses from the city to and from the casino. Takes about 45min-hour to get to. It's decent play.
Same rule applies for casino table games dealers. It's YOUR job to protect cards that are supposed to be unseen. Guys like James Grosjean make a living off off sloppy dealers. YOU'RE giving this info and it's my job to win money by ANY legal means.
The problem is that if he is exposing his cards to you then he is also exposing his cards to others. I don't think that you would like if you are in a big hand and he exposes his hand to an other player but you don't see it.
This is a super interesting spot. The guy has obviously been told and thats not the issue but the rest of the table are not doing anything wrong but are at a disadvantage. Id probably just crack on and play against others as if i didn't know some of my outs are dead.
In a tournament I think the correct ruling would be one warning then a one-round penalty each time the guy keeps exposes his hand after the warning.
Last week diring the Mini Main a guy in seat 5 said cautioned the guy in 4 that je was flashing cards. Je insisted he wasn't. 5 told 4 again (out loud) and 4 got angry. There was enough jawing that 5 asked for the floor. He told floor je was protecting the integrity of the game. Floor agreed, cautioned 4 and floor said to 5 you don't need to say anything else.
Had this problem recently. The people at the table was clearly benefiting. Dealers wasn’t saying anything. When I spoke up, they acted as if I was being an asshole. From here on I’m simply taking my money elsewhere. Too many cheaters and colluders
A couple of "careful not to show your hand" should do. Then if they keep choosing to show there hand, tough.
One time I saw my opponent had QQ
I open jammed a flop that was king high into 3 people
He still called
He tricked you.
@@Trust_but_Verify I think the poker gods cursed me for trying to run an exploit, whether he wanted me to see or not. I don’t think he tricked me, but it didn’t matter in the end
If you have warned him 2x, then the rest of the night is on him. There was going to come a hand where that advantage was going to work for you. And it is immoral to allow a fool to keep his money at the poker table.
Especially if you fold a hand against him and that hand is completed, do your best Daniel Negranu and call out his specific hand so long as you 100% know it to needle him into thinking that he is STILL EXPOSING HIS HAND.
It's like playing OL or DL in American football. If that guy stands straight up (cardinal sin to give up leverage) on the line and you shove them over because you stay lower then that is their fault for not practicing good fundamentals.
At Delaware Park, dealer wasn't dealing flat. He tossed to guy to my right I see black and a lotta dots, not absolutely certain which but it's 7-8 club spades or the like. I tell dealer I'm seeing my opponent to rights cards and fold, floor is called...asks me what I saw. I said 7 or 8 or 9 of a black suit.....insisted I name it exactly...I guess wrong. Floor says cards are good and gives guy his cards....he folds face up ...7 clubs....I flip my folded hand over AQ off.....everyone else then folds and the blinds chop. Screw the floor and the dealer.
I'm telling him twice then I'm using the info to make correct decisions.
It is each players own responsibility to protect their cards. If they don't and you benefit, it is still not your responsibility.
It’s the players’ responsibility to protect their hand. If they are told twice, then leave it be.
If you don’t want to see his cards, look away. If it bothers you that much, change seats or tables.
Felt them. Is what you should do ..
Tell him one last time but say, I'm going to start taking advantage of it now.
I bet he will start to understand.
If they're in the next seat then I will tell them that they're exposing their cards a maximum of twice and tell the dealer what they're holding, if they continue to do it then I stop saying anything. If they're further away, they get told once, If I can see your cards from more than 1 seat away, that's a you problem.
If it's happening every single hand I'm probably eventually gonna say something to the dealer and have the floor manager come over and speak with them, but I've never had a situation like that.
I think it’s a disadvantage to announce to the table that you can see his hand sometimes because then if you play strong against him you are openly saying you have him beat. I think this is a lose lose situation & I would leave the table and discuss it privately with the floor. I just see you ending up the villain in some weird spot that erupts which ends with the table essentially accusing you of accidental cheating.
don't know what to do? Tell it to floor. If floor does not care, the dealer does not care, rest of the table does not care - then it's irrelevant. You're the only one who cares; live with it or leave the table.
After telling him, "hey man, I'm not trying to be ur dad, just fyi...", I end up looking straight up every time he looks at his cards
each action on me I just gesture to the guy with open palms and shrug, make my action. really letting table know I am acting on advantage.
If I like a player, I will say something if I can see a players cards. I would Rarely ever tell a player Twice. That's where the Ethix ends in this situation at the Poker table.
I think the caller took the most noble route by simply trying not to look. If you pick up something while trying to avoid looking, I mean poker is a game of luck isn’t it.
The "Floor" will tell the player to protect their hand.
You know it’s ironic when Brad had J-10 offsuit and he saw that he was up against queen jack off! Sums up this guy’s character (in poker at the least) perfectly’😂
My rule is; if I can see their hole cards without craning my neck, I'm not doing anything wrong.
Seems fair
oh in vegas i see why vilians wear sunglasses to have edges.
This seems very similar to if the dealer exposes a card while dealing that only you see, but you don't say you saw it. Might not technically be cheating, but certainly at least low level angle shooting.
My rule is; if you still take advantage of people after talking yourself into thinking you’re “not doing anything wrong” than you’re kinda sh*tty.
If your child came to ask you for advice on this would you still encourage him to take a peak because he’s not craning his neck?
@@craigs.t.3321 its poker a sly af game cuz money is involved
I warn them and the table once and after that i use the info. The table should be the ones to warn him next.
If I have J10 suited I'm going to go up against Queen Jack all day long if I know my opponent's cards.
I think all this hand ringing about telling the other players is a bit silly. It's actually pretty easy not to look, so if you're getting information you're looking and I don't judge that especially after the warnings but at that point you just capitalize on the information.
I'll warn someone once if they're exposing their cards. If they keep doing it after that, it's on them.
I have a disability…my left arm/hand does not work very well even though you can’t notice unless you were looking for it…
And it’s awkward because it was lost car accident and i literally can’t protect my hand as much as i need
It’s an awkward position for everyone
I always tell people when they’re doing that. Feels scummy not to. But at a certain point, it is your responsibility to protect your hand.
it is appropriate to give a notice./warning that are you are able to see a players cards when they squeeze. After that, it is on them. If they continue to make the mistake, it is not your fault.
If everyone is having a good time and having a few beers and assuming that you are also, just look away and ignore his hand. If someone brings it up, then now someone else has addressed it for you and the guy will start hiding his cards (hopefully)
In a tournament he would probably get a warning and then a penalty for exposing his hand.
In a cash game, if you're worried about getting an unfair advantage, i think the right thing to do is to announce his hand. It's his fault for exposing his hand and maybe that way he learns his lesson.
Roll with it
if i can see someone is exposing their cards, i'll say hey i can see your hand. i let them know once and then i just keep looking. even say that to them in a fun way to make it like im not trying to be a dick but some people just dont protect their hand
Take the advantage.
Is it really so hard to advert your eyes away from the players cards before he lifts his cards to looks at them?
I’ve done this plenty after giving the person a few warnings. (Block my view of his cards with my own hand or turn my head away briefly or both).
Otherwise, wouldn’t it be the same if you were in a hand and just saw someone’s hand that you would have to share this information to the rest of the players in the hand as well?
A few instances of this should correct his behaviour, no?
I dunno. It doesn’t seem that hard to resolve
I like the idea of grabbing the floor guy
They get told once from me. After that it’s on them.
I tell them they need to protect their hand. I’m not trying to see but if I wanted to I could. If they don’t fix it then that’s their problem.
How about just averting your eyes? Happens all the time. I just look away. If it’s a 1 off and I end up in the hand, I let everyone in the hand know what I know. I’ve had it piss other people off. Fuck em if they don’t like it.
My rule: if i can see hands without any real effort then one warning is given. After that, I'm using that info.
Why not like a scary movie .. put your hand down eye level to the cards delt.
Watch is eyes, ect. But just avert your eyes from the cards
just tell the whole table you're playing with an advantage and tell them what you saw after every hand. let the table force the issue. if everybody doesn't care, they don't care.
Like the saying goes" it's immoral to let a sucker keep his money"
being a nit and being careless with your cards is such an odd combination
It's not my responsibility to get other players to hide their cards. Concealing your cards is an important part of the game. If you keep flashing me your cards that's on you, it has nothing to do with me.
but it gives you an unfair advantage on the rest of the table... kinda greasy no? 👽
@@rudenurse2561True, but I like money
I’ve seen floors tell drunks doing this to protect their hand or they have to stop playing. That sounds reasonable to me.
Imagine you left and an unscrupulous person took your seat…I would treat this guy the same as a drunk
I will warn you exactly once.
I will tell someone a few times i can see their cards. If they continue to do it after that I’m not gonna keep saying it
Second time you see his cards, you ask the guy to step aside, and talk to him privately. If it continues after this, thats on him
Guys a mark, take the free info and keep it moving 🤷♂️😂
Personally I will give 1 warning then after that I take it as an advantage.
First Rule of Poker Club:
Protect your hands.
Im nobodys babysitter, every man for themselves. If he cant protect his cards thats on him. Nobody will ever see my cards I can guarantee that (Unless im hammered lol ).
“If you’re not cheating, you’re not trying” -Eddie Guerrero
"Billboarding" I call that.
Have actually had idiots, I mean people, get mad when I tell them they are exposing their cards.
What would others do at the table if in your position? 8 out of 9 won't say anything. Id warn the guy maybe twice and then let it go.
Floor! Lol
After ignoring all your warnings, if you called his hand out once to the table, i can guarantee you that he'd try harder to shield his cards.
If you don't want to see the guys cards, don't look down as he looks. It's honestly not hard. I'm looking at the players'faces myself.