I’m snap calling there as well. Absolutely bizarre line - you’d think villain is at least doing some raising to charge spade peeling. I mean, not one street makes sense in terms of the villains line. I suppose I can see slow playing the flop but once that 8 drops and hero continues to apply pressure, you’ve got to start to consider defending against drawing hands - flatting makes no sense. When hero said villain jammed, my head instantly went to villain applying pressure thinking hero missed on spades. Brutal.
Maybe villain is trying to rep a draw and hoping hero continues barreling. Only thing that doesn’t make sense is preflop raise to me, but it paid off with a very disguised hand, so maybe that’s also ok
Would be really hard to fold here although it is maybe correct. Interesting close decision. As for CO, certainly weird not to raise the turn, but you have to feel good about playing in a game where people are opening hands like that in the cutoff.
No it's easy to fold when the hero had the 8 on the turn he was already in a strange situation when he revered 2 pair it made him believe he was ahead either way villain line is way too strong you have to put him on slowplayed flop straights like 2 4 and 7 4 sets were scared of the board sets would have bet for protection the hero s mistake started when he bet 520$ I would have bet less instead to see how it develops and either lose way less or make and easy river fold.
@@joellemus8279 it just seems hard to be put V on a straight when they don't raise the turn as I would think that you'd want to charge sets the maximum and charge flush draws, unless V felt that hero was bluffing. Also, like, I know he had 47 off suit, but how can you consider that a big part of his range? Like if he's opening 47 off suit in the cutoff he's gotta be vpiping like 90%. I suspect this is a super loose passive player so if hero knew that, it's the easiest fold in the world. But assuming that v is playing a solid strategy it's a lot tougher, even though you may still be correct.
@Glitch47278 people are capable of having all types of ranges pre flop maybe he just felt like mix in it up but what matters is on the flop the possible flop straights that sandbag because the flop is so connected and straights are the absolute strength it's a narrow range you have to play cautiously with weaker hands . Also in the give player pool you have to consider that the only hands that have value and are comfortable betting are and extremely strong range like flop straights. And also don't you feel like the hero somehow wasn't supposed to be in this hand he got played good.
Imo, playing this hand correctly is totally dependent on knowing your opponent. If I didn't have much info on the villain, I would have to make this tough fold. If I'm getting bluffed, then so be it.
It's because of hand analysis like this that I've minimized my losses. If I'm at a table and don't know the range of someone just yet, it could be any 2 cards for all we know. GTO only gets you so far, but when someone jams on the river (especially when you've shown a lot of strength to this point) it screams value bet
If you node lock even modestly in a lot of spots to remove just the bizarre GTO airball bluffs, it’s shocking how much strong hands are pretty much snap folded. Top two is just a bluff catcher here, which means that he needs a lot of bluffs to make this call profitable. Theoretically, there may be enough, but not in almost any game at this level. Even higher stakes, this would be a dicey call.
In live poker when facing a Cut-Off open, and folded to me in the BB with K8-suited, I like to 3-bet more than 50% of the time. The King is a card that can lower V's combos of KK and AK; and the strong suited-nature of the hand is valuable. You can get them to fold AX-offsuit hands, low pocket pairs, and perhaps K9-KJ offsuit.
I don't know about this one. We are forced to think of this with zero read on villain. The reveal tells us this guy is LAG enough to open 74o pre-flop. I don't think this is that bad of a call though. There are good reasons to laydown here though. Mainly that this river action is so rarely a bluff. On the other hand; villain is really only representing 97s or the blocked 88/KK. Seems like kind of a bad beat situation. This spot also throws MDF out the window, unless we are only defending a straight here. I'm not sure that 33 or 55 are any better than hero's actual hand here. Could hero ever arrive here with KK? [seems like a raise pre, but keep in mind it's already heads up] Would we fold that? Is villain ever really jamming the river here with 88?
@@EllieBanks333 lag? Certainly loose, but there are a lot of people who may rfi with whatever but are otherwise passive AF. This guy's turn call only makes sense if he puts hero on a stone bluff or else is just kind of passive. I agree it's super hard to fold here, just also super hard to call. We lose to all his value and he rarely doesn't have value, so that suggests fold. But every value combo is incredibly unlikely... Hero maybe arrives with KK - it's bad not to 3bet kk, but like, compared to opening 74o in the co, it's fine I guess. And if I have KK I'm just calling all day on the river, unless I see this guy is really vpiping like 90%+ and maybe even then
@@lpslpslpslpslpslps LAG might be the wrong term, as you say he could be loose not aggressive. As to KK; I personally would have raised pre here, but I see people get tricky with KK or AA in this kind of spot. It is an action closing - already down to heads up spot.
It is fold; R a) no bluff b) not a pair c) no 2 pairs (which 2 pairs??) d) it's stronger than 2 pairs, whatever it is. e) there is no "e". Therefore fold.
@@pot_kivach160 I think against an unknown this is a fairly routine fold. The more I hear about this Andy guy though [from other comment posts on this vid], the more I think it's fine to call.
I am writting this before I se the reveal. But there is NO WAY I call the River Jam. Even if the Villain is a Cpt. BlastOff. Villain has a Set or a straight.
@@lpslpslpslpslpslps eh but more believable. They probably should have played earlier streets differently, but it's at least a no brainer jam river. Sets besides maybe KK or 88 shouldn't be jamming river ever.
@@Jermo484 well sure, the river jam is fine, but the rest of the line starting with preflop is batshit fucking crazy. If I'm villain and I have KK I'm probably shoving river. There are just so many things that hero could have like every other set, 56, the k8 he actually had, and at least some of those things are calling. I don't know how many straights hero has -- 47 would play this way but do most people defend with 47? Although that would obviously be infinitely less crazy than opening 47o in the cutoff so we are way off the rails.
Just the thought of a player doing $1820 all in when I bet $520 is like uhhhhhhhhhhhhh my runner runner 2 pair no good who cares how or why lol. Obviously as the caller likes to say…
@@rtmoore4 Well, I'd modify that advice a bit to say, don't reveal the hand in a _top-level_ comment. I think it's fine to reveal it in a _reply_ to a top-level comment, as those are hidden by YT's comment folding feature. But yes, putting the result in a top-level comment is bad form.
A ton of stupid comments here about even playing K8s to begin with… guys, he’s in the big blind. What do y’all even defend with in the big blind *especially facing a LP raise? JJ+ or suited connectors because they’re pretty? Go watch a BB defense tutorial
"Monday morning quarterback" is easy when we see result after the play. All the analysis from these vids is great but you never know exactly what a villain is holding. There's the rub. A few times ive been able to put opponent on an exact holding, but these times are rare. Analysis, GTO, solvers cannot help you when villain is holding the only 2 that can beat you. 7,4. Loosey Goosey gamblers can bust you... I hate that.
@12:26 Bingo! We're blocking the two most likely sets, but they shouldn't be raising river anyway. 9s7s is the only legit value hand, so I'm comfortable calling off and expecting a bluff ~95% of the time... something like 77 or 99 Edit after reveal: oh right, WSOP is on, so extra button-clicking going on
If you are willing to bluff 77 or 99 then I would assume that person would also be willing to raise any set on the river. You hear hands on this show that bluff with the nut blocker but for the ones you hear there are thousands that you don't hear that will just call or fold with the nut blocker.
Maybe a 7h9h that was really skeptical on the flop and thought gutshot + backdoor flush + 2 overs? I dunno but it isn't terrible compared to, say, opening 74o
Not true about the wait time. If you called in u had 2 hours to get there and I would time it out to get there in an hour. As a local that plays there 5 days a week the longest I had to wait during the WSOP was 20 minutes. It was plus that they only used the tables for cash. Well run this year!
Well, H called pfr with a crap. So, how is it any better than V's 74o? On contrary: V played it aggressive, at least. So: main advice here would be: *Don't you ever never call someone's raise with crap, my child!*
a bit, but he wasn't as bad as your comment would suggest EDIT: he does say 'obviously' a lot but I see this more as a conversational tic than revealing something awful about the caller
@@pot_kivach160 because 3-betting would make villain fold all his junk and only continue with hands that crush hero, including all Kx hands that dominate.
@@InstinctBassin I've heard that (crap) before. Following that logic, there would not be need to 3-bet ever!! lol . In reality, if you're scared of 3-bet, then you must folded weak hand. Even more: quit poker for good.
What do you meaning nothing on the flop but a draw? First of all, he has two overcards as well as a draw. His K will often still be live at the least. And secondly..raising draws is pretty common and sound poker in certain situations? You can’t just always raise with the nuts.
I dont care what bart says. Im calling here. Its a massive mistake folding here.. if this is 1-3, we can talk. 2-5, 5-10, youd be a fool to fold, especially in my player pool. This would be a horrific fold. He only has 47, 79, and KK that play this way. That's it. 33 55 66 88 should NEVER be jamming river. Ever.
The gambler's school of poker - play deep and incredibly wide and then when you get there, it's with a hand nobody expects
@@newstandardaccount and hope it happens when you are against people who just sat down and haven't observed your loose passive play yet
I would have been so tilted after this one.
I’m snap calling there as well. Absolutely bizarre line - you’d think villain is at least doing some raising to charge spade peeling. I mean, not one street makes sense in terms of the villains line. I suppose I can see slow playing the flop but once that 8 drops and hero continues to apply pressure, you’ve got to start to consider defending against drawing hands - flatting makes no sense. When hero said villain jammed, my head instantly went to villain applying pressure thinking hero missed on spades. Brutal.
Maybe villain is trying to rep a draw and hoping hero continues barreling. Only thing that doesn’t make sense is preflop raise to me, but it paid off with a very disguised hand, so maybe that’s also ok
Imagine this happened to Phil Hellmuth
Would be really hard to fold here although it is maybe correct. Interesting close decision.
As for CO, certainly weird not to raise the turn, but you have to feel good about playing in a game where people are opening hands like that in the cutoff.
No it's easy to fold when the hero had the 8 on the turn he was already in a strange situation when he revered 2 pair it made him believe he was ahead either way villain line is way too strong you have to put him on slowplayed flop straights like 2 4 and 7 4 sets were scared of the board sets would have bet for protection the hero s mistake started when he bet 520$ I would have bet less instead to see how it develops and either lose way less or make and easy river fold.
@@joellemus8279 Check call at the river too passive?
@@joellemus8279 it just seems hard to be put V on a straight when they don't raise the turn as I would think that you'd want to charge sets the maximum and charge flush draws, unless V felt that hero was bluffing. Also, like, I know he had 47 off suit, but how can you consider that a big part of his range? Like if he's opening 47 off suit in the cutoff he's gotta be vpiping like 90%.
I suspect this is a super loose passive player so if hero knew that, it's the easiest fold in the world. But assuming that v is playing a solid strategy it's a lot tougher, even though you may still be correct.
@@joellemus8279 Why are you putting some rando on 74 or 42 after a rfi in the CO?
@Glitch47278 people are capable of having all types of ranges pre flop maybe he just felt like mix in it up but what matters is on the flop the possible flop straights that sandbag because the flop is so connected and straights are the absolute strength it's a narrow range you have to play cautiously with weaker hands . Also in the give player pool you have to consider that the only hands that have value and are comfortable betting are and extremely strong range like flop straights. And also don't you feel like the hero somehow wasn't supposed to be in this hand he got played good.
I’m don’t play, but the amount of analyzing is amazing, I’m alway impressed, thank you Crush
He went from thinking 9s would fold the turn to thinking it would pay off when a King hits lol
It's really hard to voice perfect sound reasoning...especially as a recreational player on a call with a very strong player.
Imo, playing this hand correctly is totally dependent on knowing your opponent. If I didn't have much info on the villain, I would have to make this tough fold. If I'm getting bluffed, then so be it.
well, this V is LAG. Would you fold?
@@pot_kivach160
I think you need quite a bit more information than that lol
Only very good and maniacs bluff big on rivers, heavily weighted to value.
It's because of hand analysis like this that I've minimized my losses. If I'm at a table and don't know the range of someone just yet, it could be any 2 cards for all we know. GTO only gets you so far, but when someone jams on the river (especially when you've shown a lot of strength to this point) it screams value bet
Not a big fan of the large turn bet. I would either check or bet smaller. Maybe that's just the tournament player in me.
The River is just a bad beat.
Haven’t seen the hand reveal but only bluffs I can think of that plays this way is 44 and 77. 77 being the most logical
If you node lock even modestly in a lot of spots to remove just the bizarre GTO airball bluffs, it’s shocking how much strong hands are pretty much snap folded. Top two is just a bluff catcher here, which means that he needs a lot of bluffs to make this call profitable. Theoretically, there may be enough, but not in almost any game at this level. Even higher stakes, this would be a dicey call.
In live poker when facing a Cut-Off open, and folded to me in the BB with K8-suited, I like to 3-bet more than 50% of the time. The King is a card that can lower V's combos of KK and AK; and the strong suited-nature of the hand is valuable. You can get them to fold AX-offsuit hands, low pocket pairs, and perhaps K9-KJ offsuit.
as played, bet/fold river is fine
What hand are you folding to?
This is why I'm happy to play $1-3. I could afford to lose $5k on a random weekend financially, but it would eat me up mentally.
very tough spot
I don't know about this one. We are forced to think of this with zero read on villain. The reveal tells us this guy is LAG enough to open 74o pre-flop. I don't think this is that bad of a call though. There are good reasons to laydown here though. Mainly that this river action is so rarely a bluff. On the other hand; villain is really only representing 97s or the blocked 88/KK. Seems like kind of a bad beat situation. This spot also throws MDF out the window, unless we are only defending a straight here. I'm not sure that 33 or 55 are any better than hero's actual hand here. Could hero ever arrive here with KK? [seems like a raise pre, but keep in mind it's already heads up] Would we fold that? Is villain ever really jamming the river here with 88?
@@EllieBanks333 lag? Certainly loose, but there are a lot of people who may rfi with whatever but are otherwise passive AF. This guy's turn call only makes sense if he puts hero on a stone bluff or else is just kind of passive.
I agree it's super hard to fold here, just also super hard to call. We lose to all his value and he rarely doesn't have value, so that suggests fold. But every value combo is incredibly unlikely...
Hero maybe arrives with KK - it's bad not to 3bet kk, but like, compared to opening 74o in the co, it's fine I guess. And if I have KK I'm just calling all day on the river, unless I see this guy is really vpiping like 90%+ and maybe even then
@@lpslpslpslpslpslps LAG might be the wrong term, as you say he could be loose not aggressive.
As to KK; I personally would have raised pre here, but I see people get tricky with KK or AA in this kind of spot. It is an action closing - already down to heads up spot.
It is fold;
R
a) no bluff
b) not a pair
c) no 2 pairs (which 2 pairs??)
d) it's stronger than 2 pairs, whatever it is.
e) there is no "e". Therefore fold.
@@pot_kivach160 I think against an unknown this is a fairly routine fold. The more I hear about this Andy guy though [from other comment posts on this vid], the more I think it's fine to call.
WTF
Idk if id even play king 8 preflop
Standard defend from the BB to a cutoff open
They always have it!
You don’t need to be balanced!
Overfold and bet for value!!!
In the games i play im simply never calling off here. Villains in my pool have 0 bluffs and won’t raise a worse value hand like 65 suited
I’m raising preflop and just check/calling until my spade hits
I am writting this before I se the reveal. But there is NO WAY I call the River Jam. Even if the Villain is a Cpt. BlastOff. Villain has a Set or a straight.
I mean, I like to think I'd fold to, but this is a pretty terrible line with a set - a massive overplay bordering on turning it into a bluff.
@@Jermo484 its also a pretty terrible line with any of the available straights
@@lpslpslpslpslpslps eh but more believable. They probably should have played earlier streets differently, but it's at least a no brainer jam river. Sets besides maybe KK or 88 shouldn't be jamming river ever.
@@Jermo484 well sure, the river jam is fine, but the rest of the line starting with preflop is batshit fucking crazy.
If I'm villain and I have KK I'm probably shoving river. There are just so many things that hero could have like every other set, 56, the k8 he actually had, and at least some of those things are calling. I don't know how many straights hero has -- 47 would play this way but do most people defend with 47? Although that would obviously be infinitely less crazy than opening 47o in the cutoff so we are way off the rails.
@Jermo484 I don't play 5-10. So I guess I am speaking from a 1-3, 2-5 perspective. Goofy lines are the norm.
Bro had the "Ben Lamb" lmao
I’m going broke here. Not sure it was played well but perfect play goes broke here almost every time.
Just the thought of a player doing $1820 all in when I bet $520 is like uhhhhhhhhhhhhh my runner runner 2 pair no good who cares how or why lol. Obviously as the caller likes to say…
Sick one
So strange that CO opened to $30 with 74 off…
Don’t be a jerk and reveal the villain’s hand in the comments. There is a reason Bart doesn’t expose the hand until the end.
@@rtmoore4 Well, I'd modify that advice a bit to say, don't reveal the hand in a _top-level_ comment. I think it's fine to reveal it in a _reply_ to a top-level comment, as those are hidden by YT's comment folding feature.
But yes, putting the result in a top-level comment is bad form.
@@rtmoore4don't read the comments before the reveal
@@rtmoore4sounds like a you problem bud
Villain is from Texas
Beware of large river bets.
Hell yeah
I probably just check calling all 3 streets and losing like 500 total
A ton of stupid comments here about even playing K8s to begin with… guys, he’s in the big blind. What do y’all even defend with in the big blind *especially facing a LP raise? JJ+ or suited connectors because they’re pretty? Go watch a BB defense tutorial
"Monday morning quarterback" is easy when we see result after the play. All the analysis from these vids is great but you never know exactly what a villain is holding. There's the rub. A few times ive been able to put opponent on an exact holding, but these times are rare. Analysis, GTO, solvers cannot help you when villain is holding the only 2 that can beat you. 7,4. Loosey Goosey gamblers can bust you... I hate that.
I do it all the time and still call😂
You say what you should do before the results.
@12:26 Bingo! We're blocking the two most likely sets, but they shouldn't be raising river anyway. 9s7s is the only legit value hand, so I'm comfortable calling off and expecting a bluff ~95% of the time... something like 77 or 99
Edit after reveal: oh right, WSOP is on, so extra button-clicking going on
If you are willing to bluff 77 or 99 then I would assume that person would also be willing to raise any set on the river. You hear hands on this show that bluff with the nut blocker but for the ones you hear there are thousands that you don't hear that will just call or fold with the nut blocker.
Maybe a 7h9h that was really skeptical on the flop and thought gutshot + backdoor flush + 2 overs? I dunno but it isn't terrible compared to, say, opening 74o
I think it's gotta be a fold.
When a fish is piling money in despite you showing tons of strength just snap fold
Good players can find the top 2 fold. Shit ain’t ez
I would've overbet that river for 150% pot
Not true about the wait time. If you called in u had 2 hours to get there and I would time it out to get there in an hour. As a local that plays there 5 days a week the longest I had to wait during the WSOP was 20 minutes. It was plus that they only used the tables for cash. Well run this year!
He could have 56 suited
Well, H called pfr with a crap. So, how is it any better than V's 74o? On contrary: V played it aggressive, at least.
So: main advice here would be: *Don't you ever never call someone's raise with crap, my child!*
You must lose tons of money in the BB
I'm irrationally angry for the hero here.
absolutely over bet... 800-950
Spoiler blocker
good grief this caller is an egotistical know it all. why even call in? He ought to tell Bart how to play. Everything is "obviously" about the hand.
thats 95% of the calls lol
a bit, but he wasn't as bad as your comment would suggest
EDIT: he does say 'obviously' a lot but I see this more as a conversational tic than revealing something awful about the caller
@@newstandardaccount
That was reallllly obvious dude like Jesus…
@@cafferacer obviously
Ugh, that’s nauseating
47 vs k8 both hands never should have called or raised.
Folding K8s in the BB to a CO raise is entirely too nitty.
K8s is a clear defend against a cutoff open... On the other hand, opening 74o is just spewy.
@@InstinctBassin so, why did not he 3-bet?? Why nobody told him that?
@@pot_kivach160 because 3-betting would make villain fold all his junk and only continue with hands that crush hero, including all Kx hands that dominate.
@@InstinctBassin I've heard that (crap) before. Following that logic, there would not be need to 3-bet ever!! lol
.
In reality, if you're scared of 3-bet, then you must folded weak hand. Even more: quit poker for good.
Stop saying RERAISE
Caller had NOTHING on the flop but a draw. Check and evaluate. 8 on the turn worth chasing the river but there’s no way villain was bluffing
The caller is playing 5-10, not 1-3. You have to give some credit some players would find shoves with bluffs.
@seslocrit9365 still even if they bluff more in 5-10, they still under bluff.
@@mrhumble2937 maybe, but then the lesson is to fold more than equilibrium, not to always fold
What do you meaning nothing on the flop but a draw? First of all, he has two overcards as well as a draw. His K will often still be live at the least.
And secondly..raising draws is pretty common and sound poker in certain situations? You can’t just always raise with the nuts.
if he was not bluffing, then what value hand did he have? 74o?? lol pair of QQ? lol...AK, lol...
I dont care what bart says. Im calling here. Its a massive mistake folding here.. if this is 1-3, we can talk. 2-5, 5-10, youd be a fool to fold, especially in my player pool. This would be a horrific fold. He only has 47, 79, and KK that play this way. That's it. 33 55 66 88 should NEVER be jamming river. Ever.
Why not 88?
Ok dude. Sets don’t exist at 1-3nl, 2-5 etc. Got it. I call $1800 after I bet out $500 then every time hahaha
All that punted money would've been avoided with a pre-flop fold. Way to lose idiotic caller!
Okay knit man
What? This is such an easy call pre
@@physicist2337 not my problem if you like calling with garbage hands like K8. Enjoy punting your money away.
@@Love1isall K8 is a garbage hand. Not my problem if you are a punting...compulsive gambler.
Yeah, way to show that you've never looked at a preflop calling range chart in your life. K8s is a standard defend to a cutoff open.
As soon as I hear “I block”…🥱