If you watch the show you understood the reasoning they were having trouble in their colonies in Manchuria and it seemed they were stretched to thin and needed to bring the troops home. American colonies became a problem for them and with more resistance means more troops and resources for them to commit to fighting the resources all while maintaining control of their colonies in Asia.
@DevilTrigger Sure, they unlikely were to take over the world, and in reality never could invade North America. But yes, they were easily as bad as James Bond villains, if not worse. Attempting to commit large scale extermination of hundreds of millions via Lebensraum is about bad as it gets. Was Japan trying to do the same? Not quite, but killing as many as it takes, plus the likes of Unit 731 is horrifying enough as it is.
That final exchange between Smith and Kido is so fascinating. You can tell how much they hate each other, but still have a flicker of respect for when they saved the world from nuclear destruction.
They both fought on opposite sides at Guadalcanal. Also, I love how the U.S. Army in this universe is severely weakened to allow for an Axis victory, yet the Island-hopping campaign still happened because creating alternative scenarios would probably require the creators to actually read a history textbook!
@@IsaiahRichards692 right ? so apparently the turning point is the battle of Midway, i’m guessing after losing Guadalcanal, America Island hops the other way until they reach the west coast while the east coast gets nuked and then invaded by the Nazis who’s turning point was winning the Battle of Britain
@@firecracker739 It means that entire empires are "washed away" or wiped out of existence. The empires of Greece and Rome once stood proudly, but they fell in due time. Empires are temporary but change is forever.
Honestly I should have seen this shit coming from season 3, but I just told myself that they were setting up stuff so we could get an awesome payoff like in season 2. Boy did I fool myself....
While I agree the series was rushed and Amazon chose to give up on it, the part where he shakes his hand instead of the salute was symbolic. You even see it in Kido's reaction to the offering of the hand. It is a sign of respect to shake someones hand. Smith never believed in the Nazi ideology. When the Nazis took over he was just caught up in a choice to save his family or let them die. He chose his family, and every step he took up the Nazi ladder was just in order to save his family from any threats. When he finally lost his son, he no doubt blamed the Nazis and it shows that he really wasn't one when he let Himmler's assassin get away, and even killed Himmler himself later on. All in an effort to save his family from harm. That's why he kills himself in the end. He was just a normal man who wanted to protect his family, and ended up doing horrid things to do so. When he finally realizes that he is beyond redemption, and he, had become the threat to his family, he takes it upon himself to end his monstrosity.
@@KTA1sVidsandFacts Yeah that all would be true, except he was still going to invade the west and purge the "undesirables". We see John struggle with the Nazi party but he never does anything to oppose its ideals in this season, only the people running it. He doesn't defend the black people sitting in at the diner, he says everything the U.S. stood for was bullshit, and he was still going to set uo concentration camps. They hinted at seeing how fucked everything was and him turning on the party for the past two season and we never really got that pay off. This season had its moments, but yeah amazon totally gave up on it at some point.
While the handshake was gesture to both be amused since immediate plans were to reunite the USA under the american reich but John Smith takes all and the other guy gets actual germany/whatever around, the "smiling at destroyed files" part made no sense. At first I thought "are they lying, do they hate the nazi's didn't help or something, or knew they never would even if they asked?" but it meant nothing so it was pointless-it was just a way to ignore any aftermath of the mass bombing planned. Whomever lived, they'd have no info for no real reason.
They didn't retreat they withdrew. They would have stayed but they were at war with a large rebellion in china and the BCR were constantly disrupting their infrastructure. That's why Kido told the crown princess that he doesn't see the point for the continuation of occupying the west coast. Thus later leading the emperor to make the decision to leave the west coast.
Hints in the show that the Empire of Japan is not doing well internally and not catching up with the Reich have also been shown. For instance, In S1, there's a scene where a Nazi supersonic jet lands in SF and the inspector said how we could ever compete with them (hinting the lack of supersonic technology, at least for commercial use). In S3 where the Japanese tested a new nuclear weapon in the desert, the generals said that its power is nowhere near the Hydrogen bomb (of the US in our reality) shown in the movie reel by Smith to deceive the German war cabinet back in S2. My only problem is that the BCR and anti-Japanese vigilantly appeared too late in the show and were for me not sufficient to thoroughly establish the internal problems of the Japanese Pacific States.
I think the technological parity was close enough by season 3. Japan atomic arsenal would be enough to keep the Reich from invading even if it’s military was superior. That’s why they tried to starve them of oil. Agree about the BCR coming in to the story to late. Would also have liked more information about what was going on in China. Was the Empire facing a Guerilla war or a fully mechanised Chinese army. If you look at the map of the Neutral Zone, it seems to include a large chunk of modern day north-west China. With the resources of the entire Neutral Zone it’s not impossible the Chinese could have regrouped and rebuilt there army in this area before invading the Empire’s territory. But I don’t know why the Empire could not have used it’s atomic weapons against such a threat.
@ Devin Como With respect this is wrong for such limited man power they hold a vast teritory and resorces. Resources that can help fuel the war effort against china not just oil. To give up now after one attack on infrastructure, will encorage China to keep fighting till Tokyo has been captured.
Infernal460 I agree if Japanese had nukes they would have used them in China, then they just would have killed anyone that wasn’t white or Japanese. In the Japanese Controlled States. Just to make sure the rebels didn’t win.
Gillan Baclayon It’s a very poorly done parallel. The Vietnam war lasted years of intense guerilla warfare before the United States gave up. The black commies made a couple assassinations and blew up an oil pipeline. For some reason that’s all it took for Japan to give up.
@@firebird4491 the black commies are supported by china which is the main reason of japan withdraw from US, although not sure it's nationalist china or communist china
The end of this series always bugged me. Not for the exact events of the ending themselves, but the implication that the Reich immediately-IMMEDIATELY- Collapsed and disintegrated once Smith and the Nazi elite were removed. Nazi Europe is STILL A THING, Y'all. there are undoubtedly still plenty of Nazi loyalists in the US regime. you've got 20+ years of Hitlerjugend who have been raised on the propaganda of the Reich. a new dawn of freedom? try years of bloody civil war as Warlords and SS commanders try to take over.
You're quite right, but there's one parallel. Hitler. He was indispensable to the Nazi regime in real life, in our timeline. Immediately after his death, men like Donitz and Kesselring who had insisted on fighting to the bitter end, did a 180 and began trying to surrender to the Western Allies. It lasted so long in the face of obvious inevitable disaster only because of Hitler, and Hitler's death collapsed the whole structure. It's not a great parallel of course since Smith doesn't seem to have Hitler's abilities of oratorical persuasion or one-on-one magnetism and had not been in charge long enough for a cult of personality to become a central pillar of his regime.
@@IrishCarney difference being the Germans had no way of survival after Hitlers death with the allies and soviets being overwhelming obstacles for any of them to keep power. In this shows universe America has no external threat just internal issues i would expect a Libya like situation as there is no external threat to strongmen you only need to beat the other locals.
This is the same as star wars, after the empire fell, the imperial warlords fought with each other to gain power in the galaxy. (Not shown in the movies) The lore for these series is so much more than what a tv show and movies can depict.
The end of this scene is pretty powerful. The Japanese colonel expected a Nazi salute, but received a handshake instead. You can sort of see the surprise on the Japanese colonel's face. This just further confirms that John really was never really indoctrinated into Nazism.
@@emarexofficial9874 IRL during WWII some nazi offizers where negotiating with chamberlain and king Georg ---- and the british felt insulted becouse they broke protokol and hailed him instead of bowing
@@dodgyfella9506 But one could argue that a tide is only a fleeting moment with no real consistency at all. What is the water without the wind? Now a conch, a conch is forever.
"We will make sure that our oil supply is not interrupted by handing it over to a terrorist group and leaving it open to be taken by our biggest enemy" said no nation ever
Doesn't make sense anyway since they still had Indonesia and the oil from that, which the Japanese in real life did Pearl Harbor to eliminate the US as a barrier to obtaining.
@@ColoradoStreaming eh not really American involvement in Syria is a proxy war focused on regime change. Iraq was more resource oriented but involvement was never only about the oil.
@@dylanmilne6683 We still armed dangerous terrorist groups to overthrow a legitimate government and handed over a lot of influence in the region to the Russians. Taking out Saddam was about the Petro Dollar in my opinion.
Keep in mind Amazon forced this show to end. It is a tragedy that Amazon would do this and force the developers to cramp it all this season. Would've been better to explore more of the guerilla groups and Latin American groups in a smooth manner. Shame.
@@lee_o_brien8959 Actually HBO told D&D to do 2 seasons to bring it to a satisfactory end. D&D decided to do it all in one. Just so they can go to Disney, only to screw it up, and Disney dropped them like Hot Potatoes.
@@lee_o_brien8959 Not really comparable at all, as GOT was a massive money maker while this show quite simply was not. I enjoyed the show and appreciated the quality world they crafted, however I was surprised when it was renewed for a third season, much less a fourth.
I love this show so much; Kido's and Smith's character progression throughout the series is amazing and polar opposites. Kido starts off as a man who's entire existence exists to further the interests of the Empire, but ends with him jaded at the Empire he has served his whole life. Smith starts off as a man just trying to survive in the new world who yearns for the return of Democracy and the old world, but ends with him becoming the type of man he swore to destroy at the start of the war.
The ending was bad. Kido should have gotten what he deserved after killing so many innocents. John also does a 180. They were setting him up for something great and ended him just being another Nazi dictator. The turning point for John was when the reich ordered the military to bomb American cities and John told them to stand down and said "we're not bombing our own people". Then they kinda forgot that when he ordered an air strike on his own people.
Guys, at least they kept their warships intact! Me and the Wargaming bois would be delighted to see those Japanese warships. (Just hope they are not scrapped yet)
But you already have all those ships in World of Warships...Yamato class battleship and I think there's a KII class as wel behind him,Mogami/Ibuky class heavy cruisers and Taiho is right there...I don't think that aircraft carrier is Shinano 🤔
@@ChristiansEdits Im aware but they could have become museum ships. They might keep Nagato and Yamato since they are the pride ships of the imperial navy.
@@shadowtrooper262 Yamato got sunk in april 1945 and Nagato was used for A Bomb tests by american...The Japanese were a defeated nation so they had no choice.
I find this depiction to be realistic in some ways, and laughably fictional in others. While the Japanese Emperor did hold absolute power over his territories, numerous de facto conventions that had evolved over time and an emboldened military council prevented him from using his theoretically vast power outright. So if the Emperor were to issue such a decree, it makes sense that the nation would follow, but its hard to believe that he’d ever do such a thing to begin with. While it’s inevitable that a tiny, reliant nation like Japan could only sustain its militaristic dominion over faraway lands for so long, it’s also impractical for the Japanese to utterly abandon it after the billions of yen and millions of lives spent taking and holding the territory. Lastly, it’s outright heretical for the Japanese to willingly surrender so publicly. Young Japanese troops were ready to stage a coup when their home was being nuked and firebombed because surrender, despite the fact that they literally had lost the capacity to make war, was so repellent to them, and you’re saying they’d be just fine with abandoning one of their Empire’s greatest conquests?
The reason is simple: The United States does not have vast resources on the Western Coast on this show, and after conquering China in WW2, Chinese resistance groups are retaking it in the 60s, with Japan not having the manpower to hold them back. It seems there is a big rebellion in China. It is said that Japan is losing troops at a high rate. In order to prevent war with the Nazis (especially on the American front, where they felt they couldn’t win) and to receive oil from them after the oil embargo (that Nazis put in place after Japan kept attacking the Chinese), Japan decided to abandon the US Western Coast that had no valuable resources to them. Simply put, it was a diplomatic move to receive oil from the Nazis and focus on China, a threat to the Empire.
@@AnImperialGodthat's their point though, "Japan" simply was unable to effectively make decisions like that. The ideology and culture of the Japanese military meant that any unopposed withdrawal would have been opposed internally by coups and assassinations. The interpretation of the emperor's instructions and the influence of the prime minister on the emperor would have been questioned by younger officers, and by the navy if the PM was an army officer or by the army if the PM was a navy officer. The factionalism and instability and government by coup within the Japanese empire would not have got better had it lasted longer, especially if at this point it was facing military pressure and rebellion.
@@alisilcox6036 While the threat of a coup is always there, the emperor stands supreme over all. It was the report from the crown princess that convinced the emperor to withdraw and no matter how much you would disagree from that, nobody will ever dare to defy the emperor and so withdraw you must. During the Bolshevik revolution, Imperial Japan sent thousands of troops into Manchuria and Siberia but once the Bolsheviks were poised to win the civil war, Imperial Japan withdrew from the occupied territories because one, the entente was pressuring Japan to withdraw, two they were afraid that the Bolsheviks would muster everything they have once they win, three the population there wasnt exactly friendly with the Japanese, and lastly the cost of holding onto the territory was just way too much compared to the benefits they could get from holding onto it. So the withdrawal from the JPS actually has some historical merit. Even if there are large factions that would want to try and hold onto the JPS, if the emperor orders it - that is the endgame.
The most difficult part of writing the show is logistics with colony-nations overseas in Europe to overseas in North and South America. The simple migration of people, assets with the people, and colony politics straight up matters the most and the show behaves as though all of that doesn’t really matter, when in reality that’s all these figures would ever worry about. In theory the optimization of freedom is the optimization of geography, and that is in a literal sense the underground movement across the entire world - Forget the American Underground Railroad and migrant passion projects of the real world, forget Jewish tunnels, the mapping of underground tunnels and infrastructure would be massive for survivors of the Nazi-Japanese conquests. Not even mentioning science, which would be severely limited by the religious theology of Shinto and Theist Nazism, and enabled only in specific conditions. No cell phones, computers, internet, just basic radio, all of which Nazi scientists would be gatekeeping much tighter than the current modern government and private finance/tech companies of our world are. Either science would advance intensely quickly with the two-ethnic dominion, or be an intermediate of indefinite negotiations and subgroup politics. I would suspect Amazon simply didn’t feel comfortable with expanding the writing of the worldbuilding and realism and that they would be deprecated by the irony of the show with their own business ethics and practices.
Somebody on the TNO discord said that MITHC was hinting at Japan was suffering a "Great Asian War" (A massive chinese rebellion against Japan). Probably not true, but it can explain why they had to pull back. They needed to de-extend to pull more troops to China.
The crown princess and the admiral said it for the first three episodes + everyone in the Reich predicting the Japanese couldn't hold America because of the new Chinese rebellion that was supplying the BCR so it's not untrue. The withdraw is also seen as a parallel to the US in Vietnam because (since the show follows an alternate line like the crown prince assassinating=JFK and hydrogen bomb footage) because Smith is watching Vietnam footage and saying how a stronger nation may not be able to stand to the will of resistance (and then right after the Japanese announce the withdraw of California).
It just makes no sense honestly, how would the Chinese be able to support the BCR from across the pacific when Japan dominates the pacific ocean? This is just horrible writing as far as I see.
The BCR dealt the final blow to the Empire’s foothold in America. The Japanese had to chose between China or North America as their supplies were overextended.
@@Blackmage4001 Arms smuggling is an easy way to support them. Smuggling weapons and personnel has been a thing since the early days of war up until modern times.
A lot of people here are asking why Japan retreated so easily. Like it came out of the blue. Well, to understand why you need to look at the Japanese Empire's situation during this time. In season 1, the Crown prince was notified of the Japanese losing control of territories in Asia due to various revolts. Everyone forgot about that. In Season 4, Ep1. It was said that a massive Chinese revolt had pushed the Japanese Army out of China and even pushed deep into Japanese controlled Manchuria and Korea. With this being said, it can be assumed that other rebellions were taking place all over the Empire and not just in China and the JPS. With the BCR and main American resistance movement in America getting stronger, with the Chinese resistance pushing Japan out of China. The Japanese probably realized that they cannot handle more than one large rebellion. That is why Japan chose to retreat from the United States and leave it for the Nazis.
BCR and a Chinese resistance make zero sense in this timeline. Those animals would be rounded up in the streets of Beijing and Los Angeles before anything meaningful can happen from them. How do the Chinese and BCR even get Soviet-made equipment decades after its fall? Never mind the fact that the Japanese navy has full reign over the Pacific ocean and her trading routes. There's very little chance for that to go through. Japan has full control of the air spaces between Siberia and China
I think the ending was significant in that fact that a handshake is very much a western gesture. The nazis salute and the Japanese bow, but America and her western allies, had always shook hands.
There wasn't a lot of exploration of the inevitable civil war they would have on their hands even after the end of occupation. You can bet other rebel groups would be extremely hostile to the idea of a chunk of the USA being turned into a communist ethno-state, even those who sympathise with the African-Americans.
in japans position i would have done the same ----- make an ally out of an old enemy - get the recourses cheaper --- not having to maintain an exspensive occupation -- and freeing up manpower
In this setting, the Japanese Empire had taken control of the oil fields in the Far East (formerly the Dutch East Indies). So it shouldn't have problems with oil supply anymore. So the reason for resigning from Japan Pacific State (JPS) is very strange. Does anyone have an explanation for this?
Yeah but they pretty much only have the oil fields of Indonesia. That's probably not enough to supply an entire superpower's worth that controls half the world. It's not just an oil supply problem too but a manpower one. Japan is facing massive revolts across the rest of it's territories including (implied anyways) it's oil fields in the far east, and so using it's likely increasingly limited manpower pool to occupy the JPS when it needs troops elsewhere to safeguard its resources means occupying the JPS just isn't worth it any more for them, especially if they could also ensure a steady supply of oil from the Reich to counteract any losses from the rebellions.
California has oil fields, so does Texas and New Mexico. So yes you'd think they'd want to hold onto the US West. A lot of mining and agriculture are also in the West. China has some oil and resources but the infrastructure was non existent during the WW2 era the US was very well developed. So yes you think they'd try to hold onto the more civilized well developed areas or make a more balanced alliance with them. For some reason the show tried to be more sympathetic to the Japanese. Overall the show had some potential but it got worse every season instead of better.
Reichsprotektorat Nordamerika Amerikanisches Nationalsozialistisches Reich Großamerikanisches Reich Vereinigte Nationalsozialistische Staaten ... Anything but "Nazi" on their name.
Nazi a cut down version of national socialist, which was itself a shortenned version of the political party name: National Socialist German Workers Party. the notion of political slang being on official documents lol
John Smith was the best character imo, he was the most understandable and has the most realistic approach to the world. Tagomi and Kido are really good characters as well. Joe Blake could've had a better character development and Juliana Crain is just too sloppy, I really thought the storyline after Juliana came back to the world of Nazi was that she will be more of a critical thinker and strategic minded like John, but she became full rebel without thinking that bringing back the USA is just provoking the Nazi of their 2nd wave of invasion of North America... The portal at the end doesn't make sense when people started coming in... what for???
Well the point of all the people coming through in the end was because of what they said earlier in the show about how you can only travel to a world in which you don't exist. Because so many people had died in TMITHC world, there was an absolute flood of people able to get into it.
This makes no sense to me, Even after being devastated by the Second World War many European colonial empires still viciously clung to their holdings. Now can someone explain to me how a Japanese empire which won the Second World War, had nuclear weapons and a large navy, would just surrender a huge resource rich land like America just because of some local rebellions
They didn't. They left precisely because they didn't value America, and because the rest of their empire was also in open rebellion. They couldn't hold it and they'd rather not waste the resources.
I feel like the ending to Amazon's TMIHC is underwhelming and goes in a direction that takes away from what made Philip K. Dick's novel so intriguing and memorable, as well as being something that feels just a little too disconnected from what we know about these regimes. Especially with the Japanese decision to abandon their US territories unconditionally, considering the behavior of the real world's Imperial Japanese and the internal political struggles that led to the Ministry of War attempting to overthrow the Emperor in the Kyūjō incident when he was trying to surrender to the Americans. It feels disingenuous to say they left without so much as a fight or without keeping the JPS as a puppet. It feels unearned, anticlimactic and more importantly, uninteresting. I feel a lot of it stems from the choice to first make the alternate universe a tangible thing, changing the story's alt-history (of the setting's alt history, depicting the allies as victorious) plot from a book, "The Grasshopper Lies Heavy", to the visual medium of a film reel or rather series of film reels, where all of a sudden the alt-universe idea becomes less of a speculative "what if the Allies won?" that captures the amusement and imagination of people to something that is considerably more real and proves "hey, the Allies were *supposed* to win" right off the bat. Making it more a story about setting the "timeline" right, as opposed to a story of living in this depicted Axis-ruled reality. By making that change and making the alt-universe in the story a tangible and real thing that can be accessed, the story shifts from a bleaker "this is their reality and this is what they must live with" to "let's set it to how it should be" and I feel that the series' ending implication that the United States is on the track to becoming reunified, independent, and possibly democratic again (or at the very least regaining some vague semblance of what it used to be) really exemplifies this point by making the story stop being about how this is their reality and that things are going to stay that way to one of a little more optimism, that things are righting themselves and the balance of power is changing for the better when it shouldn't.
@DevilTrigger Yes the whole plot is insanse. Thats why I could never take this series seriously. I also don't get this american obsession with being invaded and occupied. Is that some weird masochistic thing, or this longing for a Fight to defend the homeland? Im honestly curious. Im asking since there is a ton of alt history in games, movies books etc, where America gets invaded by either Nazis (lol), Russians(lol... but at least they have nukes), Japanese (lol), Chinese (lol at least would have lots of manpower... and nukes), north Koreans (extra lol) aliens (Ok, this makes sense) and god what not. I guess its just that all these stories are most of the time written for an American audience and well to captivate them there must be something at stake, still kinda silly in book since it is absolutely impossible to invade the USA. No country on earth could even in their wildest dreams pull it off. Not with all alt history shenanigans on their side.
@DevilTrigger Oh! Thats intersting, I never heard about this map. Thank you for this I didn't consider this whole empire perspecive but I see how it makes sense. At least for its time. Maybe its that spirit which still lives on even in our globalized world
@DevilTrigger I might be a little late on the reply, but yes, the whole premise seems *unlikely* as opposed to impossible, I'd argue. The idea of an occupied America served more as an amusing 'what if', but presented a more plausible course of events that make it feel a little more believable and grounded. Being that the differences between TMITHC and the real world start long before the war, with FDR dying before he even had the chance to serve his first term and instead the US gets weaker presidents who don't manage to pull the States from its economic slump. But I do feel that a distinction should be made between Germany's wartime decisions were and what they intended to do once the war came to a close. The book does a better job at presenting the the state of the world, given Philip K. Dick actually did his research (Though that doesn't excuse why Canada is inexplicably untouched given they were part of the commonwealth). That said, yeah, I'd agree the premise has its roots in the traditional phobia of "Barbarians at the gates" that's been around since forever.
Thankyou to all the men and women of the allies for preventing this terrifying possibility. I thank the housewives left behind, the children who lost a parent and the sacrifice of those left behind to keep our countries running. I live free because of what you did. Love from Australia
It's because of people like you that shows like this shouldn't exist. This is not what would happen if the Axis won WW2, even in the best scenario of them winning world domination wouldn't be possible at this scale.
@@hans3443 Even if they did somehow manage to win, there is no way that Nazi Germany would be able to hold itself up. Japan might could've, just because their nation was deeply entrenched in tradition, but there I highly doubt Germany would have. Especially since in the event of a magical German victory, it is highly unlikely that the UK would have been annexed/had sanctions put on it, so there is no way for instance, that the US would have
@@podomuss Not true. Germany would have directly annexed only a few regions of Europe. Mainly just Poland. Denmark, Netherlands, the Rhine, Lower Poland, and Belgium would have only become puppet states. Soviet Union would have been broken up in blocks, which again would have been made into smaller puppet nations, one in the Baltics, Ukraine, the Caucaus and Moskva. With the rest of the Soviet Union gaining independence. Similar to puppet nations like how Hungary, Poland, Czechoslavkia and Romania were under the Soviet Union. France would have been unoccupied and left mostly intact excluding the Rhine, with brutal reparations similar to the Germans after WW1. Britain would be left paying a limited amount of reprations as the war would have been drawn at a stalemate. However, German supremacy in Europe would falter with time. And many of the imposed fascist puppet nations would probably be instable due to unpopularity and fall apart from within. A cold war would be between the USA and Germans, as the U.S was left intact from the war as they defeated the Japanese in the pacific. The Japanese were going to lose either way in the war after their failure at Midway, that was the turning point of the pacific theatre. The Germans wouldn't have been able to help the Japanese even if they were able to beat the Soviet Union. Which the only reason they lost was due to a shortage of oil. If they were successful in the turning point of the war, battle of Stalingrad. The Soviet Union would have been left demoralized, with the Germans having access to Soviet oil. Which would have turned the German blitzkrieg on-again, ending the Soviets. Not allowing for a D-Day from the allies. In a theoretical cold war between the USA and Nazi Germany. I am overall uncertain who would win. As the space race would most definitely been won by the Germans, as innovation and technological advancement was unparalleled by any during their short reign. Not to mention most of the scientist working on the space programs for both the Soviet Union and USA were from Operation paperclip. However, the difference is although superior in technology and probably economically. They would most likely never be as big as the USA in terms of population or size. Nor would they have had as much influence in the world stage as the Soviet Union did. Unlike the Soviets which promoted internationalism, which made them really popular in African, Latin, Asian states across the world. Nazi ideology would be unpopular, the Germans would only be able to make allies with other nationalist nations, or have prompted and supported fascist uprisings. There is a chance that the USA would have lost in a cold war against the Germans. However, in reality I think it probably wouldn't have ended like in our reality in 1989. As USA would have had more influence in Asia, Africa and Latin America during this time. Crushing any other communist uprisings with ease since the Soviet Union and communist China would probably not have existed. The Germans and USA would probably both be getting involved in the Chinese civil war against the communists to gain favour with nationalist China. The nationalists would win, having in even more independence then before in history since a Russia/Soviet Union wouldn't exist. China in that reality would be pretty strong as both the Germans and Americans would have good relations with them. Making them a 3rd superpower during this time who would probably be largely neutral.
@Sam James this kind of possibility is a fluke. The Nazi Germany may be able to subdue the other European powers (except Britain), and unable to subdue North America (USA) and Russia. The only sensible way Nazi Germany could do is sink every American supply cargo meant for Britain through the sea using submarine warfare. As for the Imperial Japan, it would be illogical for them to expand to the American hemisphere and I believe they would centered their control more on South East Asia and China as both have large natural resources which is crucial to Japanese war machine.
In our reality France killed 200 000 people in Indochina before leaving. 300 000 people in Algeria before leaving. around 50 000 people in Madagascar (and we didn't leave before few years in that case) The terrorist attacks in France colonies were way more violent than american attacks against Japan in this show. And France was not fascist at all. So Japan quitting after few terrorist attacks is ridiculous.
@@mogwaiman6048 naw, it was not like any other rebellion. The BCR just blew up some buildings. The Japanese would level the place after everyone left to fuck the last of the rebellion and would be a big middle finger to the Reich.
The alternative are literally the Nazis. Yeah, I'd pick the old school imperial power over the Nazis. Christ, I'd pick the Commies over the Nazis, and so did Churchill. When all you have are bad choices you gotta make the best decision in the circumstances.
@@wkcia a decision Churchill himself came to regret. So much so he wanted to start a conflict with the soviets immediately after defeating the Germans as a means of pushing the Russians out of Eastern Europe. Of course this was completely rejected by the UK government. If we are being really honest the Soviets were as bad as the Nazis. They invaded Poland with the Germans in 1939 and forcibly remove the poles from their land. No different to what Nazis were doing. They force their totalitarian system of socialist governance on other countries and sent free speech advocates to gulags where those people starved to death.
@@aussiegod4269 britain, france, and poland too partition czechkoslovakia during the munich confrence, america forcibly put capitalism in power in latin america, and elsewhere, you remember vietnam? free speech advocate that was socialist were hunted down by the cia and assasinated. History is not one sided, propaganda is however
They are both ordinary men who chose to carry out horrifying tasks against their own humanity, however their continuous mutural respect for each other is a good part of the story.
I find it kind of cool that they offered translations of this season in so many different and exciting languages. When I flipped on one of the closed captioning options, it must've given me Esperanto/Latin hybrid because it just kept repeating "Bullshitus Stinkus Maximus".
In case people have not recognized it, but our world parallels this one. The Japanese retreat is similar to the retreat of the Americans during the Vietnam War. This extensive humiliation is felt similarly by the United States. Imagine a great Empire of power and military force kicked out of a country with an army of armed peasants. As it is shown many times in the show, America is a rebellious nation born from rebellion. No country can control us. If you look at the history of Vietnam, they too share a similar legacy. Many times have powerful nations conquered the South East Asian country yet none have stayed. Vietnam can not be controlled. Same with America. When a super power underestimates a nation of proud rebels, then that super power has already lost. To this day, I am a very patriotic and proud American and to this day, I have yet to meet a Vietnamese person, both in America and online, that holds any distaste for the American people. The government is different because politics suck. But, most Vietnamese people are very proud. It's not hard to understand why. Even the Vietnamese that have immigrated to America share that sense of National Pride with us and consider themselves very proud American Patriots.
This show is beyond ludicrous. To the point of unwatchability. Japan has Southeast Asia, Alaska, Manchuria and Siberia. It holds vast amounts of Oil easily comparable or greater than the Reich in this. It would also hold a vastly superior Navy and numerical advantage with the vassals it has. The show also ignores basic logistics and the economic instability Nazi Germany had in the name of magic German Uberreich. It's not even good fanfiction.
Most of the worlds oil ressources (the 1960s) would be in the German Reich, it also historicaly had a way stronger economy then the japanese during ww2 and would most likely have keep having one, most of what was in the japanese empire was former colonised that hadnt industrialised, while the Nazis had all the Industrial strenght of Europe, the African continent for ressources, and all the best part of americas industry (the east) having a good Navy is mostly down to who has the better Economy, with the Germans having an economy dwarfing the Japanese they too would have had a dwarfing navy.
@ it's because the show runners don't know a damned thing about world building or interaction. Honestly the show lost me back in season one when the State Trooper was SS, when he'd have been SD, ORPO, SIPO or Gestapo. Also how the show ignores that in this timeline the Yamato series would have been built and followed by the A 150 design by the timeline and her secondary armaments would have changed from the late WWII layout especially since the show writers put a damned Essex class carrier in the IJN Fleet in the scene where they arrive the IJN wouldn't be using the 25 mm anymore either, but hey, who gives a damn about details that get in the way of what the writer wants, even if it doesn't make any sense in the world they built.
Hi I'm a Japanese. Japan's goal for the Pacific War was NOT to get Hawaii and the West Coast of America as Japan's territory. The goal was - to secure Manchurian interests - to end economic blockade against Japan Manchu was very important place for Japan at the time. - for economy after the World Great Depression - for defense against the Soviet Union and the Republic of China. So Japanese feel this story strange and think the author of this story doesn't understand the war.
To be honestly, West Coast region is also have less resources than Manchuria, is bigger but with harsher climate compared to Manchuria, and prone to the earthquakes so maybe Japan must spent it money more on infrastructure maintenance in West Coast. In simple words, Manchuria is more profitable than the West Coast.
Of course the whole premise of the Novel is silly. Neither Japan nor Nazi germany wanted to conquer USA. Actually, Hitler wanted a peace treaty with allies in 1940 or 1941. Hitler wants to conquer western Russia and Japan wanted vast Continental China territories.
Japanese are retreating from America back to Asia, because meanwhile in their Chinese territories the people are singing a song about "Whoever doesn't want to be a slave, let us build a new Great Wall with our flesh and Blood!"
First of all, China wouldn't be strong enough to mount a real war against Japan without supplies and money from the US or some other source. Japan had 2 million troops occupying China in the war, and they would have access to turncoat Chinese troops also. Japan would not leave the Western United States so their real enemy in the Nazis would just take it and threaten the Pacific eventually. They wouldn't leave because they got bombed by some rebels.
4 года назад
PresumedEagle10 they wouldn’t have the industry to make so many Aks and RPGs like the show portrays.
There is a video on RUclips ( forgot the name ) with a detailed map of the show’s world map showing the borders that were made before and during the shows seasons I think Spain is under the reichs control and Italy is as well or they are like a probe or satellite land part of the buffer zone between eroupe and asia
I think most of them became merged and or became Reichskommissariats. Like in Season 1, in one of the first scenes with Tagomi we see two Nazi's speaking with him about shipping lanes. These two have British accents and also seem to have a split Union Flag/Swastika armband if you look very closely. And of course similar is done for the US forces, with their striped armband. So I assume certain allied nations had to undergo certain special treatment to be allowed their own govermental control. I reckon other nations like Italy, would have been merged fully into the Reich.
imagine retreating from highly industrialized and profitable west cost, to fight for some endless Chinese mountains, even though u could easily bomb every free china's factory.
Yeah I haven't watched the show, but I had to do a double take at BCR, it really sounds like a tumblr fanfic rather than a serious alternative history show.
It would've been a better ending to just show all of these rebellions rising up across the world against Germany and Japan and maybe show the portal opening and imply that the other world helps the rebellions.
Trust me. They're *real...* During filming, one statue toppled over and crushed a stagehand. What's more, the statue was slightly damaged and the museum from which it was loaned, went into a fit, threatening to shut down the entire production. In the end, they increased the Insurance for the statue to well above the entire season's budget, which is why they decided to rush end it.
yep it literally was a abbrieviation of nationalist socialist. the probably would have been called the Großgermanisches Reich if anything other than the Deutsche Reich
Everybody here is saying that no empire would just pull out if a territory like that but think for a moment. Japan's resources were stretched, they could recover but it would take years and many lives. They had a rebellion in China and the nazis gave them a fair price for their oil which they would not have gotten if they later retreated like the Americans in Vietnam, after a long and gruelling war that destroyed most of the country's infrastructure. The last empire in real life that was this stretched may have had a few more major rebellions in India, but the British Empire gave up the vast majority of it's empire without a fight and even India could have been subjugated after a few years, keeping Britain as one of the then three global powers. However, instead of this they chose to lose what was left of their dominance not long after the Zuez crisis. In other words, in another world this may have happened.
JAPAN HAS SO MUCH OIL IN ASIA its insane how every white writer just ignored this. Why do people think JApan invaded indonesia in our timelime? it was rubber and oil. China and Indonesia have tons of oil, it just makes no sense to bring this up in this scene.
Greater "Nazi" Reich - The Nazis considered the term 'Nazi' to be derogatory. Not only this but, National Socialism was an ideological concept and not a geographical identifier, so the state was called the Grossdeutsches Reich and not the NS Reich.
You could also ask why are the germans so willing to let nongermans reach a high level in their system. Yes they had collaborators some got quite far but it seems unlikely that the strongly nationalist and xenophobic germans would allow an american anywhere near their levers of power. The maximum level that the germans might accept for a nongerman is maybe two-stars and in charge of a 2nd rate division. But less than 20 years after the war no way would they allow so many nongermans to reach high levels. Obergruppenfuhrer is way too high for an american this early after the war. They really downplayed the level of open disdain the germans had for nongermans even Himmler couldn't realistically circumvent that.
I would think that the Japanese Empire retreat from the JPS is a disaster for the native (non-Japanese) inhabitants of both the JPS and the Neutral Zone... In the Reich there's only one class of citizen, either you are Aryan (and healthy) or you're dead..! In the JPS while the Japanese natives are of course first class citizens, the other races (whites, blacks, colored, Jews, disabled) are not exterminated, just relegated to second class citizens. Come to think of it, there's actually a sort of weird equality in the JPS where whites, blacks and other races are now all treated equally by the Japanese... They are oppressed, but they are all allowed to live and are more or less free to do their daily activities so long as it's not against the Japanese.. Anyway, with the retreat of Japan from JPS the Reich will simply come in and annex the former JPS territory (including the neutral zone) and we all know what that means.. Extermination of all non Aryan people in those areas... How the BCR think they are better off without the Japanese Empire around makes no sense to me... It can be assured that while the Japanese Empire seems half-hearted in their attempt to pacify the Americas, the Reich will not make the same mistake... There are no BCR in the Reich simply because there are no Blacks there anymore..
@DevilTrigger Weird.. I'm sure I put in a reply here.. but it's disappeared now.. I'll try putting another comment.. update.. yups somehow my replies disappeared as soon as I posted it :(.. but not this one though..
Yeah the Pacific States are a more equal place to live for sure. But, for the majority of Americans (of British, German, Irish, Dutch and Mediterranean descent, the reich would be a "nice" place to live. You live your life, get a job, contribute etc. LGBT? Keep your head down same as in the 20th century of our time. Have a chronic illness? Just deal with it and hope it's not too debilitating. But if you're severely ill, severely disabled, black or mixed race, non European or of slavic blood, are Jewish or want to still be openly Christian in a world where religion if banned, then your are fucked. Well fucked to varying degrees. But the pacific states are now in danger. They've lost their ruling class, so the their will be a vaccum now where people try to gain power. Racial and religious tensions may rise. The neutral zone no longer has a purpose. Its a relic of old America. So id expect and agree, the nazis will either watch and slowly integrate the western portion it invade and annex. That means the majority off white people suddenly are presented with a world where they can do better, but minorities and non western European descent people are in danger. The Pacific States is in worse shape and has a worse off future than it had under Japan, for at least 40% its population. Would be like giving the soviet Union Scandinavia in our timeline
@SSJ I believe after the war n partitioned of america their would hv a huge migration, blacks n other races from east coast to west to save themselves from massacre n white supremacist to the lala land of white supremacy so caucasians must hv to in minority in west coast
Thank you for sharing this if you can have try to have the very first episode are all of it so if one episode is an hour long for example try to show it
I Would love to see a video game based on this series. A video game that can have an open ending depending on your strategy and whether it was successful or not.
"Hey let's just leave this massive amount of territory without a fight." - Said no Japanese Emperor ever.
Even though hirohito was a pacifist he still wouldn't abandon huge territories in north america
If you watch the show you understood the reasoning they were having trouble in their colonies in Manchuria and it seemed they were stretched to thin and needed to bring the troops home.
American colonies became a problem for them and with more resistance means more troops and resources for them to commit to fighting the resources all while maintaining control of their colonies in Asia.
@DevilTrigger and they all failed besides Rome
@DevilTrigger Sure, they unlikely were to take over the world, and in reality never could invade North America. But yes, they were easily as bad as James Bond villains, if not worse. Attempting to commit large scale extermination of hundreds of millions via Lebensraum is about bad as it gets. Was Japan trying to do the same? Not quite, but killing as many as it takes, plus the likes of Unit 731 is horrifying enough as it is.
They left Taiwan and South Korea without a fight, it's one of the reasons why North and South Koreas became divided.
That final exchange between Smith and Kido is so fascinating. You can tell how much they hate each other, but still have a flicker of respect for when they saved the world from nuclear destruction.
I love that Kido destroyed all the files like “We are leaving you so much, it’s your responsibility to deal with the problems, and we don’t help”
MAD protocol always works like a charm
They both fought on opposite sides at Guadalcanal. Also, I love how the U.S. Army in this universe is severely weakened to allow for an Axis victory, yet the Island-hopping campaign still happened because creating alternative scenarios would probably require the creators to actually read a history textbook!
@@IsaiahRichards692 right ? so apparently the turning point is the battle of Midway, i’m guessing after losing Guadalcanal, America Island hops the other way until they reach the west coast while the east coast gets nuked and then invaded by the Nazis who’s turning point was winning the Battle of Britain
I'm your 1,700th like
"These two empires we fight for - are little more than sandcastles. Only the tides are forever."
Ethan Eblaghie
I think I don’t quite understand “Only the tides are forever”.
Can you elaborate?
@@firecracker739 It means that entire empires are "washed away" or wiped out of existence. The empires of Greece and Rome once stood proudly, but they fell in due time. Empires are temporary but change is forever.
Dan C.
Ahhh, that makes so much sense and I likes the quote even more. Thanks.
I AGREE WITH DAN C. Sorry for not responding in due time, hope you got your answer ;)
@@danc.4986 Ah like the American empire too then.
when John Smith smiled after hearing the files are destroied and handshake instead a nazi salute, you know the ending was rushed and bad.
Honestly I should have seen this shit coming from season 3, but I just told myself that they were setting up stuff so we could get an awesome payoff like in season 2.
Boy did I fool myself....
But then, he's John Smith, not Richard Spencer.
While I agree the series was rushed and Amazon chose to give up on it, the part where he shakes his hand instead of the salute was symbolic. You even see it in Kido's reaction to the offering of the hand. It is a sign of respect to shake someones hand.
Smith never believed in the Nazi ideology. When the Nazis took over he was just caught up in a choice to save his family or let them die. He chose his family, and every step he took up the Nazi ladder was just in order to save his family from any threats. When he finally lost his son, he no doubt blamed the Nazis and it shows that he really wasn't one when he let Himmler's assassin get away, and even killed Himmler himself later on. All in an effort to save his family from harm.
That's why he kills himself in the end. He was just a normal man who wanted to protect his family, and ended up doing horrid things to do so. When he finally realizes that he is beyond redemption, and he, had become the threat to his family, he takes it upon himself to end his monstrosity.
@@KTA1sVidsandFacts Yeah that all would be true, except he was still going to invade the west and purge the "undesirables".
We see John struggle with the Nazi party but he never does anything to oppose its ideals in this season, only the people running it. He doesn't defend the black people sitting in at the diner, he says everything the U.S. stood for was bullshit, and he was still going to set uo concentration camps.
They hinted at seeing how fucked everything was and him turning on the party for the past two season and we never really got that pay off.
This season had its moments, but yeah amazon totally gave up on it at some point.
While the handshake was gesture to both be amused since immediate plans were to reunite the USA under the american reich but John Smith takes all and the other guy gets actual germany/whatever around, the "smiling at destroyed files" part made no sense. At first I thought "are they lying, do they hate the nazi's didn't help or something, or knew they never would even if they asked?" but it meant nothing so it was pointless-it was just a way to ignore any aftermath of the mass bombing planned. Whomever lived, they'd have no info for no real reason.
They didn't retreat they withdrew. They would have stayed but they were at war with a large rebellion in china and the BCR were constantly disrupting their infrastructure. That's why Kido told the crown princess that he doesn't see the point for the continuation of occupying the west coast. Thus later leading the emperor to make the decision to leave the west coast.
Hints in the show that the Empire of Japan is not doing well internally and not catching up with the Reich have also been shown. For instance, In S1, there's a scene where a Nazi supersonic jet lands in SF and the inspector said how we could ever compete with them (hinting the lack of supersonic technology, at least for commercial use). In S3 where the Japanese tested a new nuclear weapon in the desert, the generals said that its power is nowhere near the Hydrogen bomb (of the US in our reality) shown in the movie reel by Smith to deceive the German war cabinet back in S2. My only problem is that the BCR and anti-Japanese vigilantly appeared too late in the show and were for me not sufficient to thoroughly establish the internal problems of the Japanese Pacific States.
I think the technological parity was close enough by season 3.
Japan atomic arsenal would be enough to keep the Reich from invading even if it’s military was superior. That’s why they tried to starve them of oil.
Agree about the BCR coming in to the story to late. Would also have liked more information about what was going on in China. Was the Empire facing a Guerilla war or a fully mechanised Chinese army. If you look at the map of the Neutral Zone, it seems to include a large chunk of modern day north-west China. With the resources of the entire Neutral Zone it’s not impossible the Chinese could have regrouped and rebuilt there army in this area before invading the Empire’s territory.
But I don’t know why the Empire could not have used it’s atomic weapons against such a threat.
@
Devin Como With respect this is wrong for such limited man power they hold a vast teritory and resorces. Resources that can help fuel the war effort against china not just oil.
To give up now after one attack on infrastructure, will encorage China to keep fighting till Tokyo has been captured.
@@timothyhare851 Exactly, why not use japanese nukes on china you could win the war in Asia in a day.
Infernal460 I agree if Japanese had nukes they would have used them in China, then they just would have killed anyone that wasn’t white or Japanese. In the Japanese Controlled States. Just to make sure the rebels didn’t win.
The Empire’s withdrawal is parallel to the Vietnam War and Fall of Saigon.
And fall of the Berlin wall
Not really as it didnt involve an extremely bloody guerilla war involving aid from the soviet union
Gillan Baclayon It’s a very poorly done parallel. The Vietnam war lasted years of intense guerilla warfare before the United States gave up. The black commies made a couple assassinations and blew up an oil pipeline. For some reason that’s all it took for Japan to give up.
@@firebird4491 the black commies are supported by china which is the main reason of japan withdraw from US, although not sure it's nationalist china or communist china
I agree with this but the fall is that probably the producer where pressure to finish the show quickly thus making a very hasty ending
The end of this series always bugged me. Not for the exact events of the ending themselves, but the implication that the Reich immediately-IMMEDIATELY- Collapsed and disintegrated once Smith and the Nazi elite were removed.
Nazi Europe is STILL A THING, Y'all. there are undoubtedly still plenty of Nazi loyalists in the US regime. you've got 20+ years of Hitlerjugend who have been raised on the propaganda of the Reich.
a new dawn of freedom? try years of bloody civil war as Warlords and SS commanders try to take over.
The writers are idiots thinking the world is simple
You're quite right, but there's one parallel. Hitler. He was indispensable to the Nazi regime in real life, in our timeline. Immediately after his death, men like Donitz and Kesselring who had insisted on fighting to the bitter end, did a 180 and began trying to surrender to the Western Allies. It lasted so long in the face of obvious inevitable disaster only because of Hitler, and Hitler's death collapsed the whole structure. It's not a great parallel of course since Smith doesn't seem to have Hitler's abilities of oratorical persuasion or one-on-one magnetism and had not been in charge long enough for a cult of personality to become a central pillar of his regime.
@@IrishCarney John Smith was iconic in his ruthless cunning.
@@IrishCarney difference being the Germans had no way of survival after Hitlers death with the allies and soviets being overwhelming obstacles for any of them to keep power. In this shows universe America has no external threat just internal issues i would expect a Libya like situation as there is no external threat to strongmen you only need to beat the other locals.
This is the same as star wars, after the empire fell, the imperial warlords fought with each other to gain power in the galaxy. (Not shown in the movies)
The lore for these series is so much more than what a tv show and movies can depict.
The end of this scene is pretty powerful. The Japanese colonel expected a Nazi salute, but received a handshake instead. You can sort of see the surprise on the Japanese colonel's face. This just further confirms that John really was never really indoctrinated into Nazism.
Nazis knew what a handshake was, lol.. I highly doubt they would do a Hitler salute at foreign representatives
@@emarexofficial9874 The Nazi official was literally during the Hitler salute at the Japanese official after they had signed the treaty.
@@emarexofficial9874 IRL during WWII some nazi offizers where negotiating with chamberlain and king Georg ---- and the british felt insulted becouse they broke protokol and hailed him instead of bowing
@@baronbrummbar8691 also they didn't respected teatime xD
Yet he was willing to start up concentration camps
"Little more than sandcastles. Only the tides are forever"
"Little more than tides. Only sandcastles are forever"
@@andyappleton3353 tides more than little forever only sandcastles are hmm
@@dodgyfella9506 But one could argue that a tide is only a fleeting moment with no real consistency at all. What is the water without the wind? Now a conch, a conch is forever.
*Nazis disintegrate the moon*
“oh shit”
this show needed an extra two seasons, AT THE LEAST.
27 to be exact
Is this worth watching or nah?
@@CN-wt2bj its not
@@CN-wt2bj The last season made no sense
@@CN-wt2bj not the last season full of plot holes and bruh moments with plot armor
"We will make sure that our oil supply is not interrupted by handing it over to a terrorist group and leaving it open to be taken by our biggest enemy" said no nation ever
Doesn't make sense anyway since they still had Indonesia and the oil from that, which the Japanese in real life did Pearl Harbor to eliminate the US as a barrier to obtaining.
Why not continue to occupy Alaska at least? It had a much smaller population and its natural resources would make it worth holding on to.
Uh, isnt that basically what we tried to do in Syria?
@@ColoradoStreaming eh not really American involvement in Syria is a proxy war focused on regime change. Iraq was more resource oriented but involvement was never only about the oil.
@@dylanmilne6683 We still armed dangerous terrorist groups to overthrow a legitimate government and handed over a lot of influence in the region to the Russians. Taking out Saddam was about the Petro Dollar in my opinion.
Keep in mind Amazon forced this show to end. It is a tragedy that Amazon would do this and force the developers to cramp it all this season. Would've been better to explore more of the guerilla groups and Latin American groups in a smooth manner. Shame.
Velmex Zorro dame thing happened game of thrones 😞😞
@@lee_o_brien8959
Actually HBO told D&D to do 2 seasons to bring it to a satisfactory end. D&D decided to do it all in one. Just so they can go to Disney, only to screw it up, and Disney dropped them like Hot Potatoes.
@@lee_o_brien8959 Not really comparable at all, as GOT was a massive money maker while this show quite simply was not. I enjoyed the show and appreciated the quality world they crafted, however I was surprised when it was renewed for a third season, much less a fourth.
this was all the deed from the usa so.... blame them :V
I would also love to see how the world was shaped and focus more on Asia, Russia where the Germans did not control and maybe the Middle East
I love this show so much; Kido's and Smith's character progression throughout the series is amazing and polar opposites. Kido starts off as a man who's entire existence exists to further the interests of the Empire, but ends with him jaded at the Empire he has served his whole life. Smith starts off as a man just trying to survive in the new world who yearns for the return of Democracy and the old world, but ends with him becoming the type of man he swore to destroy at the start of the war.
very powerful observation
It was said he was to destroy the Sith, not join them
The ending was bad. Kido should have gotten what he deserved after killing so many innocents. John also does a 180. They were setting him up for something great and ended him just being another Nazi dictator.
The turning point for John was when the reich ordered the military to bomb American cities and John told them to stand down and said "we're not bombing our own people". Then they kinda forgot that when he ordered an air strike on his own people.
“Don’t lecture me Obi-wan”
Wait, IS THAT A STAR WARS REFERENCE?!
Guys, at least they kept their warships intact!
Me and the Wargaming bois would be delighted to see those Japanese warships. (Just hope they are not scrapped yet)
But you already have all those ships in World of Warships...Yamato class battleship and I think there's a KII class as wel behind him,Mogami/Ibuky class heavy cruisers and Taiho is right there...I don't think that aircraft carrier is Shinano 🤔
@@ChristiansEdits Im aware but they could have become museum ships. They might keep Nagato and Yamato since they are the pride ships of the imperial navy.
@@shadowtrooper262 Yamato got sunk in april 1945 and Nagato was used for A Bomb tests by american...The Japanese were a defeated nation so they had no choice.
@@ChristiansEdits i meant the alternate universe.😅
I've first seen the Yamato in a World of Tanks map.
The admiral has one of the juiciest voices I have ever heard.
Lady boner?
Japanese Army withdrew but been replaced with...Godzilla!
But due to international Copyright laws it isnt
But it looks like Gojira!!!
I find this depiction to be realistic in some ways, and laughably fictional in others. While the Japanese Emperor did hold absolute power over his territories, numerous de facto conventions that had evolved over time and an emboldened military council prevented him from using his theoretically vast power outright. So if the Emperor were to issue such a decree, it makes sense that the nation would follow, but its hard to believe that he’d ever do such a thing to begin with. While it’s inevitable that a tiny, reliant nation like Japan could only sustain its militaristic dominion over faraway lands for so long, it’s also impractical for the Japanese to utterly abandon it after the billions of yen and millions of lives spent taking and holding the territory. Lastly, it’s outright heretical for the Japanese to willingly surrender so publicly. Young Japanese troops were ready to stage a coup when their home was being nuked and firebombed because surrender, despite the fact that they literally had lost the capacity to make war, was so repellent to them, and you’re saying they’d be just fine with abandoning one of their Empire’s greatest conquests?
The reason is simple: The United States does not have vast resources on the Western Coast on this show, and after conquering China in WW2, Chinese resistance groups are retaking it in the 60s, with Japan not having the manpower to hold them back. It seems there is a big rebellion in China. It is said that Japan is losing troops at a high rate.
In order to prevent war with the Nazis (especially on the American front, where they felt they couldn’t win) and to receive oil from them after the oil embargo (that Nazis put in place after Japan kept attacking the Chinese), Japan decided to abandon the US Western Coast that had no valuable resources to them.
Simply put, it was a diplomatic move to receive oil from the Nazis and focus on China, a threat to the Empire.
@@AnImperialGodthat's their point though, "Japan" simply was unable to effectively make decisions like that. The ideology and culture of the Japanese military meant that any unopposed withdrawal would have been opposed internally by coups and assassinations. The interpretation of the emperor's instructions and the influence of the prime minister on the emperor would have been questioned by younger officers, and by the navy if the PM was an army officer or by the army if the PM was a navy officer.
The factionalism and instability and government by coup within the Japanese empire would not have got better had it lasted longer, especially if at this point it was facing military pressure and rebellion.
@@alisilcox6036 We can just assume that the post-war Japan modernized their way of thinking and doctrine ig
@@alisilcox6036 While the threat of a coup is always there, the emperor stands supreme over all. It was the report from the crown princess that convinced the emperor to withdraw and no matter how much you would disagree from that, nobody will ever dare to defy the emperor and so withdraw you must.
During the Bolshevik revolution, Imperial Japan sent thousands of troops into Manchuria and Siberia but once the Bolsheviks were poised to win the civil war, Imperial Japan withdrew from the occupied territories because one, the entente was pressuring Japan to withdraw, two they were afraid that the Bolsheviks would muster everything they have once they win, three the population there wasnt exactly friendly with the Japanese, and lastly the cost of holding onto the territory was just way too much compared to the benefits they could get from holding onto it.
So the withdrawal from the JPS actually has some historical merit. Even if there are large factions that would want to try and hold onto the JPS, if the emperor orders it - that is the endgame.
The most difficult part of writing the show is logistics with colony-nations overseas in Europe to overseas in North and South America. The simple migration of people, assets with the people, and colony politics straight up matters the most and the show behaves as though all of that doesn’t really matter, when in reality that’s all these figures would ever worry about. In theory the optimization of freedom is the optimization of geography, and that is in a literal sense the underground movement across the entire world - Forget the American Underground Railroad and migrant passion projects of the real world, forget Jewish tunnels, the mapping of underground tunnels and infrastructure would be massive for survivors of the Nazi-Japanese conquests. Not even mentioning science, which would be severely limited by the religious theology of Shinto and Theist Nazism, and enabled only in specific conditions. No cell phones, computers, internet, just basic radio, all of which Nazi scientists would be gatekeeping much tighter than the current modern government and private finance/tech companies of our world are. Either science would advance intensely quickly with the two-ethnic dominion, or be an intermediate of indefinite negotiations and subgroup politics. I would suspect Amazon simply didn’t feel comfortable with expanding the writing of the worldbuilding and realism and that they would be deprecated by the irony of the show with their own business ethics and practices.
Somebody on the TNO discord said that MITHC was hinting at Japan was suffering a "Great Asian War" (A massive chinese rebellion against Japan). Probably not true, but it can explain why they had to pull back. They needed to de-extend to pull more troops to China.
The crown princess and the admiral said it for the first three episodes + everyone in the Reich predicting the Japanese couldn't hold America because of the new Chinese rebellion that was supplying the BCR so it's not untrue. The withdraw is also seen as a parallel to the US in Vietnam because (since the show follows an alternate line like the crown prince assassinating=JFK and hydrogen bomb footage) because Smith is watching Vietnam footage and saying how a stronger nation may not be able to stand to the will of resistance (and then right after the Japanese announce the withdraw of California).
It just makes no sense honestly, how would the Chinese be able to support the BCR from across the pacific when Japan dominates the pacific ocean?
This is just horrible writing as far as I see.
Equiano Hampton said that there were rebellions in India, China and Australia. Japan was fighting an internal war.
The BCR dealt the final blow to the Empire’s foothold in America. The Japanese had to chose between China or North America as their supplies were overextended.
@@Blackmage4001 Arms smuggling is an easy way to support them. Smuggling weapons and personnel has been a thing since the early days of war up until modern times.
A lot of people here are asking why Japan retreated so easily. Like it came out of the blue. Well, to understand why you need to look at the Japanese Empire's situation during this time. In season 1, the Crown prince was notified of the Japanese losing control of territories in Asia due to various revolts. Everyone forgot about that. In Season 4, Ep1. It was said that a massive Chinese revolt had pushed the Japanese Army out of China and even pushed deep into Japanese controlled Manchuria and Korea. With this being said, it can be assumed that other rebellions were taking place all over the Empire and not just in China and the JPS. With the BCR and main American resistance movement in America getting stronger, with the Chinese resistance pushing Japan out of China. The Japanese probably realized that they cannot handle more than one large rebellion. That is why Japan chose to retreat from the United States and leave it for the Nazis.
BCR and a Chinese resistance make zero sense in this timeline. Those animals would be rounded up in the streets of Beijing and Los Angeles before anything meaningful can happen from them.
How do the Chinese and BCR even get Soviet-made equipment decades after its fall? Never mind the fact that the Japanese navy has full reign over the Pacific ocean and her trading routes. There's very little chance for that to go through. Japan has full control of the air spaces between Siberia and China
2:29 when someone offers you a handshake after quarantine
I think the ending was significant in that fact that a handshake is very much a western gesture. The nazis salute and the Japanese bow, but America and her western allies, had always shook hands.
Well, it is a very European gesture. Since time immemorable, certainly long before America was born.
@@SceiccoNCOVID disrupted it but didn't break it 🤝🏻
Japan will return with gundams and mechas...
And the reich will have newly summoned demons awaiting :3 Nazis were serious about their occult you know
Remember that in that universe anime doesn't exists.
And sexualized tentacles
Anime wouldnt be even exsisted in this timeline.
@@sushizombie_222 forms of manga existed in the 1930s irl I'm told. Why wouldn't manga or anime exist in this one?
I've just noticed the Japanese colonel also voiced Takemura in Cyberpunk. Such a great actor.
The whole BCR plot got so little development, even the characters didn't know what's going on with them.
and they just kinda showed up out of nowhere, no establishment or anything....didn't really make sense
There wasn't a lot of exploration of the inevitable civil war they would have on their hands even after the end of occupation. You can bet other rebel groups would be extremely hostile to the idea of a chunk of the USA being turned into a communist ethno-state, even those who sympathise with the African-Americans.
@@Croz89 Lol the BCR wouldve made all the West Coast into Modern California...
BCR = BLM
They are blacks of course 🤣
You know it’s alternate history when Japan gives up land with out a fight
in japans position i would have done the same ----- make an ally out of an old enemy -
get the recourses cheaper --- not having to maintain an exspensive occupation -- and freeing up manpower
@@baronbrummbar8691 true
@@baronbrummbar8691 Personal and family honor was more important to 1945 Japanese officers than resources.
@@patrickkenyon2326 still the japanese aren´t morons ------ and ther is more then enough glorry to gain in asia / Ociania
@@patrickkenyon2326 This isn't 1945. Sometimes what's honorable anyways is to take a step back and rethink your position.
In this setting, the Japanese Empire had taken control of the oil fields in the Far East (formerly the Dutch East Indies). So it shouldn't have problems with oil supply anymore. So the reason for resigning from Japan Pacific State (JPS) is very strange. Does anyone have an explanation for this?
As everyone else says, bad writing.
Yeah but they pretty much only have the oil fields of Indonesia. That's probably not enough to supply an entire superpower's worth that controls half the world. It's not just an oil supply problem too but a manpower one. Japan is facing massive revolts across the rest of it's territories including (implied anyways) it's oil fields in the far east, and so using it's likely increasingly limited manpower pool to occupy the JPS when it needs troops elsewhere to safeguard its resources means occupying the JPS just isn't worth it any more for them, especially if they could also ensure a steady supply of oil from the Reich to counteract any losses from the rebellions.
@@TheRedKing247 thanks for your response
California has oil fields, so does Texas and New Mexico. So yes you'd think they'd want to hold onto the US West. A lot of mining and agriculture are also in the West. China has some oil and resources but the infrastructure was non existent during the WW2 era the US was very well developed. So yes you think they'd try to hold onto the more civilized well developed areas or make a more balanced alliance with them. For some reason the show tried to be more sympathetic to the Japanese. Overall the show had some potential but it got worse every season instead of better.
China still exists in this period and they were still at war with Japan. Oil is just one part of it.
2:05 This is such a "You ignored our problems for years, but now it´s yours, have fun dealing with it" moment
0:10 dang that’s a huge fleet
not really they have only a few dozen ships and a cargo ship.
@ethangavrilmoreno8479 Thats a battleship and an aircraft carrier
Greater "Nazi" Reich. Not too sure if they would've called themselves that.
I believe it would've been something like Greater German Reich of Northern America or something like that.
Reichsprotektorat Nordamerika
Amerikanisches Nationalsozialistisches Reich
Großamerikanisches Reich
Vereinigte Nationalsozialistische Staaten
...
Anything but "Nazi" on their name.
Nazi a cut down version of national socialist, which was itself a shortenned version of the political party name: National Socialist German Workers Party. the notion of political slang being on official documents lol
@@ronaldthompson4989 The Nazis never used that term.
@@LibertyMapper thats why i laughed
that what happen if u don't annex neutral state
in middle of them
No? What the fuck?
This is why you don’t invade main land America. It took British settlers 250 years to establish control over the majority of North America.
that neutral zone in the middle was a buffer zone to keeps the two armies from facing off on a mutual border that could lead to fight.
John Smith was the best character imo, he was the most understandable and has the most realistic approach to the world. Tagomi and Kido are really good characters as well. Joe Blake could've had a better character development and Juliana Crain is just too sloppy, I really thought the storyline after Juliana came back to the world of Nazi was that she will be more of a critical thinker and strategic minded like John, but she became full rebel without thinking that bringing back the USA is just provoking the Nazi of their 2nd wave of invasion of North America... The portal at the end doesn't make sense when people started coming in... what for???
Well the point of all the people coming through in the end was because of what they said earlier in the show about how you can only travel to a world in which you don't exist. Because so many people had died in TMITHC world, there was an absolute flood of people able to get into it.
This makes no sense to me, Even after being devastated by the Second World War many European colonial empires still viciously clung to their holdings. Now can someone explain to me how a Japanese empire which won the Second World War, had nuclear weapons and a large navy, would just surrender a huge resource rich land like America just because of some local rebellions
Terrible writing by untalented hacks; that's how.
It was a rushed last season to tie up all the plot threads.
They didn't. They left precisely because they didn't value America, and because the rest of their empire was also in open rebellion. They couldn't hold it and they'd rather not waste the resources.
Also, this is an alternate universe, so the Japanese surrendering peacefully can happen here.
Because it's make believe. LOL But hey, maybe you will meet Nat Turner in the afterlife and he can tell you...
yes you read about Japanese in ww2 and you sure think "These guys sure just surrender and withdraw without fight all the time "
I feel like the ending to Amazon's TMIHC is underwhelming and goes in a direction that takes away from what made Philip K. Dick's novel so intriguing and memorable, as well as being something that feels just a little too disconnected from what we know about these regimes. Especially with the Japanese decision to abandon their US territories unconditionally, considering the behavior of the real world's Imperial Japanese and the internal political struggles that led to the Ministry of War attempting to overthrow the Emperor in the Kyūjō incident when he was trying to surrender to the Americans. It feels disingenuous to say they left without so much as a fight or without keeping the JPS as a puppet. It feels unearned, anticlimactic and more importantly, uninteresting.
I feel a lot of it stems from the choice to first make the alternate universe a tangible thing, changing the story's alt-history (of the setting's alt history, depicting the allies as victorious) plot from a book, "The Grasshopper Lies Heavy", to the visual medium of a film reel or rather series of film reels, where all of a sudden the alt-universe idea becomes less of a speculative "what if the Allies won?" that captures the amusement and imagination of people to something that is considerably more real and proves "hey, the Allies were *supposed* to win" right off the bat. Making it more a story about setting the "timeline" right, as opposed to a story of living in this depicted Axis-ruled reality. By making that change and making the alt-universe in the story a tangible and real thing that can be accessed, the story shifts from a bleaker "this is their reality and this is what they must live with" to "let's set it to how it should be" and I feel that the series' ending implication that the United States is on the track to becoming reunified, independent, and possibly democratic again (or at the very least regaining some vague semblance of what it used to be) really exemplifies this point by making the story stop being about how this is their reality and that things are going to stay that way to one of a little more optimism, that things are righting themselves and the balance of power is changing for the better when it shouldn't.
@DevilTrigger Yes the whole plot is insanse. Thats why I could never take this series seriously. I also don't get this american obsession with being invaded and occupied. Is that some weird masochistic thing, or this longing for a Fight to defend the homeland? Im honestly curious.
Im asking since there is a ton of alt history in games, movies books etc, where America gets invaded by either Nazis (lol), Russians(lol... but at least they have nukes), Japanese (lol), Chinese (lol at least would have lots of manpower... and nukes), north Koreans (extra lol) aliens (Ok, this makes sense) and god what not.
I guess its just that all these stories are most of the time written for an American audience and well to captivate them there must be something at stake, still kinda silly in book since it is absolutely impossible to invade the USA. No country on earth could even in their wildest dreams pull it off. Not with all alt history shenanigans on their side.
@DevilTrigger Oh! Thats intersting, I never heard about this map. Thank you for this
I didn't consider this whole empire perspecive but I see how it makes sense. At least for its time. Maybe its that spirit which still lives on even in our globalized world
@DevilTrigger I might be a little late on the reply, but yes, the whole premise seems *unlikely* as opposed to impossible, I'd argue. The idea of an occupied America served more as an amusing 'what if', but presented a more plausible course of events that make it feel a little more believable and grounded. Being that the differences between TMITHC and the real world start long before the war, with FDR dying before he even had the chance to serve his first term and instead the US gets weaker presidents who don't manage to pull the States from its economic slump. But I do feel that a distinction should be made between Germany's wartime decisions were and what they intended to do once the war came to a close. The book does a better job at presenting the the state of the world, given Philip K. Dick actually did his research (Though that doesn't excuse why Canada is inexplicably untouched given they were part of the commonwealth).
That said, yeah, I'd agree the premise has its roots in the traditional phobia of "Barbarians at the gates" that's been around since forever.
wow this is so long like a high school eassy..so what is the game
Wow. Those are two of the longest sentences I’ve ever read. ;)
Thankyou to all the men and women of the allies for preventing this terrifying possibility. I thank the housewives left behind, the children who lost a parent and the sacrifice of those left behind to keep our countries running. I live free because of what you did. Love from Australia
It's because of people like you that shows like this shouldn't exist. This is not what would happen if the Axis won WW2, even in the best scenario of them winning world domination wouldn't be possible at this scale.
@@hans3443 Even if they did somehow manage to win, there is no way that Nazi Germany would be able to hold itself up. Japan might could've, just because their nation was deeply entrenched in tradition, but there I highly doubt Germany would have.
Especially since in the event of a magical German victory, it is highly unlikely that the UK would have been annexed/had sanctions put on it, so there is no way for instance, that the US would have
@@podomuss
Not true. Germany would have directly annexed only a few regions of Europe. Mainly just Poland.
Denmark, Netherlands, the Rhine, Lower Poland, and Belgium would have only become puppet states. Soviet Union would have been broken up in blocks, which again would have been made into smaller puppet nations, one in the Baltics, Ukraine, the Caucaus and Moskva. With the rest of the Soviet Union gaining independence.
Similar to puppet nations like how Hungary, Poland, Czechoslavkia and Romania were under the Soviet Union. France would have been unoccupied and left mostly intact excluding the Rhine, with brutal reparations similar to the Germans after WW1. Britain would be left paying a limited amount of reprations as the war would have been drawn at a stalemate.
However, German supremacy in Europe would falter with time. And many of the imposed fascist puppet nations would probably be instable due to unpopularity and fall apart from within.
A cold war would be between the USA and Germans, as the U.S was left intact from the war as they defeated the Japanese in the pacific.
The Japanese were going to lose either way in the war after their failure at Midway, that was the turning point of the pacific theatre.
The Germans wouldn't have been able to help the Japanese even if they were able to beat the Soviet Union. Which the only reason they lost was due to a shortage of oil. If they were successful in the turning point of the war, battle of Stalingrad. The Soviet Union would have been left demoralized, with the Germans having access to Soviet oil. Which would have turned the German blitzkrieg on-again, ending the Soviets. Not allowing for a D-Day from the allies.
In a theoretical cold war between the USA and Nazi Germany. I am overall uncertain who would win. As the space race would most definitely been won by the Germans, as innovation and technological advancement was unparalleled by any during their short reign. Not to mention most of the scientist working on the space programs for both the Soviet Union and USA were from Operation paperclip.
However, the difference is although superior in technology and probably economically. They would most likely never be as big as the USA in terms of population or size. Nor would they have had as much influence in the world stage as the Soviet Union did.
Unlike the Soviets which promoted internationalism, which made them really popular in African, Latin, Asian states across the world. Nazi ideology would be unpopular, the Germans would only be able to make allies with other nationalist nations, or have prompted and supported fascist uprisings.
There is a chance that the USA would have lost in a cold war against the Germans. However, in reality I think it probably wouldn't have ended like in our reality in 1989. As USA would have had more influence in Asia, Africa and Latin America during this time. Crushing any other communist uprisings with ease since the Soviet Union and communist China would probably not have existed.
The Germans and USA would probably both be getting involved in the Chinese civil war against the communists to gain favour with nationalist China. The nationalists would win, having in even more independence then before in history since a Russia/Soviet Union wouldn't exist. China in that reality would be pretty strong as both the Germans and Americans would have good relations with them. Making them a 3rd superpower during this time who would probably be largely neutral.
@Sam James this kind of possibility is a fluke. The Nazi Germany may be able to subdue the other European powers (except Britain), and unable to subdue North America (USA) and Russia. The only sensible way Nazi Germany could do is sink every American supply cargo meant for Britain through the sea using submarine warfare.
As for the Imperial Japan, it would be illogical for them to expand to the American hemisphere and I believe they would centered their control more on South East Asia and China as both have large natural resources which is crucial to Japanese war machine.
@@hans3443at least someone did their history homework
Looked like the Yamato and Shinano sailing under the Golden Gate Bridge.
just like Iowa-class battleships served to the 1960s in our reality, the Yamato remains the japanese flagship in TMITHC
The carrier looks more like an upgraded Taiho class with an angled flight deck, look at the position of the conning tower and smokestack.
that is taiho not shinano
In our reality France killed 200 000 people in Indochina before leaving.
300 000 people in Algeria before leaving.
around 50 000 people in Madagascar (and we didn't leave before few years in that case)
The terrorist attacks in France colonies were way more violent than american attacks against Japan in this show.
And France was not fascist at all.
So Japan quitting after few terrorist attacks is ridiculous.
This season reminds me of the 8th season of Game of thrones.
I'm sad that season 4 had to end like this ;c
Same here :(
Should've ended at episode 9 ;c
@@mari0664 they could have gone as far season 27
soviet Marshall yeah
At the most a 5th season would be nice
Yeah this whole season was shit, should have stopped after season 2
All that: **Happens**
Italy:
**Watches in Envy**
This show really deserved at least one more season...such a shame.
it really didnt they fucked it up after season 2
The Japanese are known (at least in WW2) for never retreating (without a fight) and dying before surrender.
Living in San Francisco, I can never look at the water at Baker Beach without imagine warships and aircraft carriers...
Only in an alternate universe would the Japanese admit that rapidly expanding the empire from 0 to 100 is unfeasible
This was such a sad and rushed way to defeat the japanese
Not really. It made perfect sense that colonial instability was inevitable.
Japan only wants oil, they already have Asia which they like better and need continued support for.
@@mogwaiman6048 naw, it was not like any other rebellion. The BCR just blew up some buildings. The Japanese would level the place after everyone left to fuck the last of the rebellion and would be a big middle finger to the Reich.
@@ultravioletxrays125
I mean they needed the oil pipelines which the Reich provides
@@muaaz6124 well yeah...
When you feel sympathetic toward Japan you know things are not good.
The alternative are literally the Nazis. Yeah, I'd pick the old school imperial power over the Nazis. Christ, I'd pick the Commies over the Nazis, and so did Churchill. When all you have are bad choices you gotta make the best decision in the circumstances.
Samuel Brown japan over the Nazis? The second reich over the Nazis?
Just gotta accept that they were super bad.
@@wkcia a decision Churchill himself came to regret. So much so he wanted to start a conflict with the soviets immediately after defeating the Germans as a means of pushing the Russians out of Eastern Europe. Of course this was completely rejected by the UK government. If we are being really honest the Soviets were as bad as the Nazis. They invaded Poland with the Germans in 1939 and forcibly remove the poles from their land. No different to what Nazis were doing. They force their totalitarian system of socialist governance on other countries and sent free speech advocates to gulags where those people starved to death.
@@aussiegod4269 all very true. The commies and the Nazis were equally horrific.
@@aussiegod4269 britain, france, and poland too partition czechkoslovakia during the munich confrence, america forcibly put capitalism in power in latin america, and elsewhere, you remember vietnam?
free speech advocate that was socialist were hunted down by the cia and assasinated.
History is not one sided, propaganda is however
They are both ordinary men who chose to carry out horrifying tasks against their own humanity, however their continuous mutural respect for each other is a good part of the story.
Ah yes imperial Japan famous for willingly retreating at the slightest loss
Yeah... the BCR didn’t think about what they’d do once they got their independence
Pretty much sums up the decolonisation of Africa
i wish colonels had this much authority and influence irl
The Emperor be like “Let’s just leave the territory alot of my countrymen died for and just be concerned for oil.”
when they actually have so much oil in Indonesia and china.....
Rufus Sewell acting is amazing
I find it kind of cool that they offered translations of this season in so many different and exciting languages. When I flipped on one of the closed captioning options, it must've given me Esperanto/Latin hybrid because it just kept repeating "Bullshitus Stinkus Maximus".
Kido was my favorite character in the series. As stern as he is, even ruthless, there's a strange "honor" to him.
In case people have not recognized it, but our world parallels this one. The Japanese retreat is similar to the retreat of the Americans during the Vietnam War. This extensive humiliation is felt similarly by the United States. Imagine a great Empire of power and military force kicked out of a country with an army of armed peasants. As it is shown many times in the show, America is a rebellious nation born from rebellion. No country can control us. If you look at the history of Vietnam, they too share a similar legacy. Many times have powerful nations conquered the South East Asian country yet none have stayed. Vietnam can not be controlled. Same with America. When a super power underestimates a nation of proud rebels, then that super power has already lost.
To this day, I am a very patriotic and proud American and to this day, I have yet to meet a Vietnamese person, both in America and online, that holds any distaste for the American people. The government is different because politics suck. But, most Vietnamese people are very proud. It's not hard to understand why. Even the Vietnamese that have immigrated to America share that sense of National Pride with us and consider themselves very proud American Patriots.
This show is beyond ludicrous. To the point of unwatchability.
Japan has Southeast Asia, Alaska, Manchuria and Siberia. It holds vast amounts of Oil easily comparable or greater than the Reich in this. It would also hold a vastly superior Navy and numerical advantage with the vassals it has. The show also ignores basic logistics and the economic instability Nazi Germany had in the name of magic German Uberreich. It's not even good fanfiction.
Most of the worlds oil ressources (the 1960s) would be in the German Reich, it also historicaly had a way stronger economy then the japanese during ww2 and would most likely have keep having one, most of what was in the japanese empire was former colonised that hadnt industrialised, while the Nazis had all the Industrial strenght of Europe, the African continent for ressources, and all the best part of americas industry (the east) having a good Navy is mostly down to who has the better Economy, with the Germans having an economy dwarfing the Japanese they too would have had a dwarfing navy.
@ it's because the show runners don't know a damned thing about world building or interaction. Honestly the show lost me back in season one when the State Trooper was SS, when he'd have been SD, ORPO, SIPO or Gestapo. Also how the show ignores that in this timeline the Yamato series would have been built and followed by the A 150 design by the timeline and her secondary armaments would have changed from the late WWII layout especially since the show writers put a damned Essex class carrier in the IJN Fleet in the scene where they arrive the IJN wouldn't be using the 25 mm anymore either, but hey, who gives a damn about details that get in the way of what the writer wants, even if it doesn't make any sense in the world they built.
yeah the whole indonesian/brunei oil fields etc and european writers just dont give a shit.
2:30 Damn, the Japanese predicted Covid all along
What?
These two empires that we fight for, they're little more than sand castles. Only the tides are forever.
The ending was a reference to the hand shake with general mcarthur
I got popcorn and a front seat, these comments are better movies these days
I love inspector kido
Moerochi - one of the better developed characters
Mage - old age circa 2000. Head of Yakuza West Coast.
When evil gets what it wants it fights different versions of itself because it's greed knows no end
"The Enpire is only concerned with the flow of oil."
American foreign policy for the last 7 decades summed up.
Alexander Lau that’s why the US is the largest or one of the largest producers of oil :)
Ande Zong no it’s actually quite small Canada Venezuela Saudi Arabia the UAE Iran are all bigger
@@epicchocolate1866 What do you mean, how is being the world biggest producer small?
(and no, none of them are bigger)
The OPEC oil embargo, which is what caused the USA’s energy focused foreign policy, was in 1973. So it would be 47 years ago. Not 70 years ago.
The GGR: We have monorails, nukes, and manned missions to Mars, all in 1962
Japan: we hav y a m a t
MITHC watchers: *y e y*
does anyone know what the soundtrack is called? 0:13 - 0:35
I will be posting soon the entire Soundtrack of Season 4
2:36 is the most scariest, feet trembling, and honorable handshake to have ever occurred in humanity.
Yes it is, and as an american its some what terrifying to see an american flag on US soil being replaced by a Nazi flag.
Yes the empire would’ve shed blood and made wars for this land, we would never leave without a fight.
The Empire of Japan must’ve been tired as hell to simply leave like this
Hi I'm a Japanese.
Japan's goal for the Pacific War was NOT to get Hawaii and the West Coast of America as Japan's territory. The goal was
- to secure Manchurian interests
- to end economic blockade against Japan
Manchu was very important place for Japan at the time.
- for economy after the World Great Depression
- for defense against the Soviet Union and the Republic of China.
So Japanese feel this story strange and think the author of this story doesn't understand the war.
Nazis didn´t want to take the USA and many other countries too,it would cause too problems in control of all these countries.
To be honestly, West Coast region is also have less resources than Manchuria, is bigger but with harsher climate compared to Manchuria, and prone to the earthquakes so maybe Japan must spent it money more on infrastructure maintenance in West Coast. In simple words, Manchuria is more profitable than the West Coast.
Wish you guys stayed out of China. The CCP would have been defeated and we would have a Democracy in China right now.
I definitely agree about the West Coast, but if Japan could have taken Hawai'i, they absolutely would have
Of course the whole premise of the Novel is silly. Neither Japan nor Nazi germany wanted to conquer USA. Actually, Hitler wanted a peace treaty with allies in 1940 or 1941. Hitler wants to conquer western Russia and Japan wanted vast Continental China territories.
0:14 song??
Japanese are retreating from America back to Asia, because meanwhile in their Chinese territories the people are singing a song about "Whoever doesn't want to be a slave, let us build a new Great Wall with our flesh and Blood!"
First of all, China wouldn't be strong enough to mount a real war against Japan without supplies and money from the US or some other source. Japan had 2 million troops occupying China in the war, and they would have access to turncoat Chinese troops also.
Japan would not leave the Western United States so their real enemy in the Nazis would just take it and threaten the Pacific eventually.
They wouldn't leave because they got bombed by some rebels.
PresumedEagle10 they wouldn’t have the industry to make so many Aks and RPGs like the show portrays.
Japan didn't leave the south America occupation zone such as Peru and Chile.
They couldn't even hold in the first place
The two most interesting characters in the whole series
Can someone please inform me what happen to the rest of the Axis Power, i.e Italy, Spain, Finland... I’m new to the series.
There is a video on RUclips ( forgot the name ) with a detailed map of the show’s world map showing the borders that were made before and during the shows seasons I think Spain is under the reichs control and Italy is as well or they are like a probe or satellite land part of the buffer zone between eroupe and asia
I think most of them became merged and or became Reichskommissariats. Like in Season 1, in one of the first scenes with Tagomi we see two Nazi's speaking with him about shipping lanes. These two have British accents and also seem to have a split Union Flag/Swastika armband if you look very closely. And of course similar is done for the US forces, with their striped armband. So I assume certain allied nations had to undergo certain special treatment to be allowed their own govermental control. I reckon other nations like Italy, would have been merged fully into the Reich.
Probably still independent under German influence.
The BCR was a freaking joke. They really dropped the ball with season 4.
imagine retreating from highly industrialized and profitable west cost, to fight for some endless Chinese mountains, even though u could easily bomb every free china's factory.
Yeah I haven't watched the show, but I had to do a double take at BCR, it really sounds like a tumblr fanfic rather than a serious alternative history show.
It would've been a better ending to just show all of these rebellions rising up across the world against Germany and Japan and maybe show the portal opening and imply that the other world helps the rebellions.
Does anyone know if the statues at 0:27 are real ?
Red lightning 2832 Probably one of the props from the warehouse used for other films. Have to go further back to the 30s and on to find one.
Trust me. They're *real...*
During filming, one statue toppled over and crushed a stagehand. What's more, the statue was slightly damaged and the museum from which it was loaned, went into a fit, threatening to shut down the entire production.
In the end, they increased the Insurance for the statue to well above the entire season's budget, which is why they decided to rush end it.
@@AudieHolland do u happen to know the names of the statues. I'm very fascinated by Japanese history :)
@@Redlightning-qk2ld In-kyu, Blin-kyu, and I think Clyde.
I feel like the handshake was a symbol of trust between 2 (maybe 3) powers.
While it may have been rushed and bad no doubt, it felt...
Symbolic...
How about u shut up
Watching this during the middle of Civil Unrest in U.S. is pretty crazy.
You know what I just noticed, the golden gate bridge is painted grey. When you notice it it really drains the landscape
That's the Oakland Bay Bridge which is grey in real life. The Golden Gate Bridge is located more to the North-West.
They didn’t retreat they “tactically redeployed”
I found "Representing the Greater Nazi Reich" on that paper kind of funny, since 'nazi' was basically a derogatory term used by the allies.
yep it literally was a abbrieviation of nationalist socialist. the probably would have been called the Großgermanisches Reich if anything other than the Deutsche Reich
This show was bungled so badly at the end, it had such greater potential.
Everybody here is saying that no empire would just pull out if a territory like that but think for a moment. Japan's resources were stretched, they could recover but it would take years and many lives. They had a rebellion in China and the nazis gave them a fair price for their oil which they would not have gotten if they later retreated like the Americans in Vietnam, after a long and gruelling war that destroyed most of the country's infrastructure. The last empire in real life that was this stretched may have had a few more major rebellions in India, but the British Empire gave up the vast majority of it's empire without a fight and even India could have been subjugated after a few years, keeping Britain as one of the then three global powers. However, instead of this they chose to lose what was left of their dominance not long after the Zuez crisis. In other words, in another world this may have happened.
JAPAN HAS SO MUCH OIL IN ASIA its insane how every white writer just ignored this. Why do people think JApan invaded indonesia in our timelime? it was rubber and oil. China and Indonesia have tons of oil, it just makes no sense to bring this up in this scene.
They don't do Harakiri?
This is how US and Afghan government escape from Afghanistan
Let’s hope the reward goes back independent in this show like I never seen it
Greater "Nazi" Reich - The Nazis considered the term 'Nazi' to be derogatory. Not only this but, National Socialism was an ideological concept and not a geographical identifier, so the state was called the Grossdeutsches Reich and not the NS Reich.
You could also ask why are the germans so willing to let nongermans reach a high level in their system. Yes they had collaborators some got quite far but it seems unlikely that the strongly nationalist and xenophobic germans would allow an american anywhere near their levers of power. The maximum level that the germans might accept for a nongerman is maybe two-stars and in charge of a 2nd rate division. But less than 20 years after the war no way would they allow so many nongermans to reach high levels. Obergruppenfuhrer is way too high for an american this early after the war. They really downplayed the level of open disdain the germans had for nongermans even Himmler couldn't realistically circumvent that.
The oil burn out for the Yamato class was a nightmare,
Retreat? Withdraw? They “surrendered” in WW2 by saying, “The war situation has developed not necessarily to Japan’s advantage”.
Never heard of this series, I’ll have to see if it’s available via On Demand
I would think that the Japanese Empire retreat from the JPS is a disaster for the native (non-Japanese) inhabitants of both the JPS and the Neutral Zone... In the Reich there's only one class of citizen, either you are Aryan (and healthy) or you're dead..! In the JPS while the Japanese natives are of course first class citizens, the other races (whites, blacks, colored, Jews, disabled) are not exterminated, just relegated to second class citizens.
Come to think of it, there's actually a sort of weird equality in the JPS where whites, blacks and other races are now all treated equally by the Japanese... They are oppressed, but they are all allowed to live and are more or less free to do their daily activities so long as it's not against the Japanese..
Anyway, with the retreat of Japan from JPS the Reich will simply come in and annex the former JPS territory (including the neutral zone) and we all know what that means.. Extermination of all non Aryan people in those areas... How the BCR think they are better off without the Japanese Empire around makes no sense to me... It can be assured that while the Japanese Empire seems half-hearted in their attempt to pacify the Americas, the Reich will not make the same mistake... There are no BCR in the Reich simply because there are no Blacks there anymore..
@DevilTrigger Weird.. I'm sure I put in a reply here.. but it's disappeared now.. I'll try putting another comment..
update.. yups somehow my replies disappeared as soon as I posted it :(.. but not this one though..
Yeah the Pacific States are a more equal place to live for sure. But, for the majority of Americans (of British, German, Irish, Dutch and Mediterranean descent, the reich would be a "nice" place to live. You live your life, get a job, contribute etc. LGBT? Keep your head down same as in the 20th century of our time. Have a chronic illness? Just deal with it and hope it's not too debilitating.
But if you're severely ill, severely disabled, black or mixed race, non European or of slavic blood, are Jewish or want to still be openly Christian in a world where religion if banned, then your are fucked. Well fucked to varying degrees.
But the pacific states are now in danger. They've lost their ruling class, so the their will be a vaccum now where people try to gain power. Racial and religious tensions may rise.
The neutral zone no longer has a purpose. Its a relic of old America.
So id expect and agree, the nazis will either watch and slowly integrate the western portion it invade and annex. That means the majority off white people suddenly are presented with a world where they can do better, but minorities and non western European descent people are in danger.
The Pacific States is in worse shape and has a worse off future than it had under Japan, for at least 40% its population.
Would be like giving the soviet Union Scandinavia in our timeline
@SSJ I believe after the war n partitioned of america their would hv a huge migration, blacks n other races from east coast to west to save themselves from massacre n white supremacist to the lala land of white supremacy so caucasians must hv to in minority in west coast
Thank you for sharing this if you can have try to have the very first episode are all of it so if one episode is an hour long for example try to show it
I knew it there will be two americas in the end!
The only cool thing about this scene is Yamato just vibin next to the Golden Gate Bridge
Nazis calling themselves Nazis allways buggs me. On official documents none the less....
This is what made me start watching this show so far so good iam on S1 E5 ish
Did we get a single scene on the Japanese home islands during all four seasons?
Yea on the tv
"The empires we fight for are mere sandcastles only tides are Perminent"
Chief inspector kido
I Would love to see a video game based on this series. A video game that can have an open ending depending on your strategy and whether it was successful or not.
Hearts of Iron IV:
Isn’t Wolfenstein kind of this?
Civ