I'd love to see you do a 460 rowland test. They make conversion barrels for 1911 and glock 21. It's meant for self defense against big game. It shoots 460rowland, 45acp, 45+p, and 45 super.
Ehh.. Do a review (or link to a gun guy who have) about the game and I'll seriously consider it. If it is a simulation that can teach me stuff that is useful when I apply for a hunting license, it's exactly what I've been looking for.
Science and violence!! Lab coat and pit vipers, it's go time mofos!! This is perfect!! Gun show is next week and I was debating on a caliber to buy lol.
9mm is a faster, less expensive round. You can carry more of it. You can train easier with it. You can buy it in bulk. The variety is crazy. 9mm is just the best round out there. That is why I carry a .45.
I was told all that but laughed when I payed 10 bucks more for the same brand 9mm target loads than my 45auto lol starting to reload to save even more.
I miss my uncle, a former Vietnam Ranger/Green Beret. When I asked him about calibers and whether the 9mm or .45 was better, his response was: "I've never met anyone that would let me shoot them in the chest with a .22." In other words, "doesn't matter."
Exactly! When I was with the 2/75 I never met someone that would let me shoot them in the face lol. Or stab them lol. Think about it, guy is rushing towards you, you pull out a 22LR pistol, start at the stomach and walk it up to his face. Or just start with the face lol. I guarantee you shoot someone in the face especially the eye from a few feet, they’re going to stop.
Also, if you're considering a round to carry for a CCW. In this particular situation, the +P .45 went thru the gel dummy and kept going another 50-100 feet, and rang that plate with some authority. The 9mm +P+ stopped inside of the gel dummy. If you're out in public, that extra 100ish feet could mean someone else gets hurt.
@samworlock1987 that's what I'm talking about. You shouldn't be rapid-firing at anything anyway unless it is within a few yards. Any longer distances require you to take slower more precision shots so you don't miss. So why is there all this talk about more recoil with a 45 and easier follow-up shots with a 9 mm? I can double tap somebody with a 45 within a couple of yards, putting the rounds an inch apart. Put any greater distances I do not want to be rapid firing a 45 or a 9 mm. I don't want to miss!!!
Having seen this video, I think it's safe to say that either caliber is more than sufficient for defense against an armless, legless man who struggles to sit up without assistance. Thanks, Science Man!
Never been shot by a 9mm, but I have been shot with a .45 through the hip and out the back of my thigh. When I got to the hospital the doctor told me that nothing was as bad as the .45, He told me that high velocity rounds usually punched through the body clean but the .45 tumbled around (like mine did) and just wiped everything out. I got an artificial hip and a femoral rod out of it but a brilliant surgeon saved my leg.
Not sure about pistol caliber rounds, but high velocity rifle caliber rounds such as the 55.6 and 5.45 have the propensity to tumble quite often. Afghanistan is the perfect example of the tumbling effect of those wounds. With casualties on both sides as evidence. I’d rather take my chances being shot with a 55.6 then a larger slower round. Seeing it’s mainly the Kinetic energy that kills you when hit by a large slow round. Even if the round doesn’t tumble. You get hit by say a 30.06 in the shoulder high chance you’re dying from that even if it’s a clean through and through.
If we are talking about M193 or M855 then the difference would be night and day. There are some videos showing some testing of this on YT. I too, though, would love to see garandthumb do similar testing with these dummies.
@@JustTheTip556 but 5.56 was designed for a 20 inch It really pushes it over the velocity threshold to get it to fragment more reliably Hence why as issued barrels get shorter You hear more complaints about hits not stopping people
This debate took up 50% of the gun community’s time when I bought my first S.O.F. Magazine in 1978 at the ripe old age of 11. Can’t believe it’s gonna outlive me.
@@vicnighthorse 😂Spoken like a wise elder😉. I’ve been noticing that EACH year leaves with another positive trait or function that I used to take for granted
Ironically back then it was a no brainer - I would have taken 45 over the crappy 9 hollow point of that day. In 2022 however, the tech for 9mm has caught up significantly and closed the gap. With modern ammo I’d take 9mm just for the capacity
@@joehadenough1642 Not convinced. The US adopted the .45 after failings with the .38 long Colt. The 9 para round is a different beast and 13 rnds from a Hi-Power vs 7 from a 1911 is also something to consider.. Granted today there is little to no argument but back then you could make your point either way. Vive la difference. Own both and enjoy both:) Would have no qualms in using either to protect myself or loved ones but thankfully I guess I cannot put that level of first hand knowledge to the table. God Bless America. God Bless our Canadian Truckers. FREEDOM!
Absolutely crazy, I was looking for 9mm vs 45 ACP videos last night and couldn't find any real good ones, and here comes Garand Thumb to save the day....😁
well, it depend on the caliber too. imagine two person, one get hit by a .22lr in the center of mass, the other get hit by a 9mm at the same place, the one who get hit by the .22lr have better chance of surviving the shot simply because of the energy of the round, because of the velocity of the ammo, a .22lr will exit the body and a 9mm will not in most of case
@@joak9755 I don't have to imagine that. Seen it plenty of times.. I'm not disputing the obvious. You are correct. However my position stands. More emphasis is owed to accuracy, not caliber.
Either of these rounds is gonna get the job done in terms of ballistics. For me, the lower recoil, greater capacity, and lower training cost of the 9mm make it an easy decision for concealed carry. I suspect I will add a 45, most likely a 1911 or similar, to my collection at some point, but that will be just for fun. But, that’s just me.
I’d only probably choose 45 because of capacity limits in MA. If I could get a double stacked 9mm it would be better so I’d compensate with a larger round
Charlie chugging milk in the background and acting extremely awkward after referencing he had been banned from the public library is a truly epic character arc
My favorite quote: "Terminal ballistics. Pistols put holes in people, rifles put holes through people, shotguns at the right range with the right load will physically remove a chunk of shit off your opponent and throw that shit on the floor, and you will have to get someone to come in an clean the shit up with a shovel" - Clint Smith. Thunder Ranch.
Back in the 1990's, I was in the Army, and I was sitting with some other non-coms who were having this debate early on. The heart of the discussion was being led by those of us who were actually reading up on ballistics at the time due to the Army's transition from .45 calibre to 9mm. My 1st Sgt. at the time, who was a Vietnam vet about to retire, was asked his opinion on the whole thing. He sat down his drink, thought for a moment, and answered, "Bigger fucking bullets make bigger fucking holes." I always thought that that was an interesting perspective. 😂
That's been my perspective for a long time because barring any other bullet design, besides fmj, all you're left with is the caliber/size of the projectile and what propellant is used to get to a certain velocity, of course along with other components and case designs. It's really the only truth, bigger bullets make bigger holes 🤷
From a military perspective, gaining double the ammo capacity and a reduced recoil in a weapon that is about the same weight out ways the .07" ish size difference. 9mm kills fine just as 5.56 does. Saying you NEED a .45 is like saying you need a 30-06 over the 5.56. Outside of the military, just use hollow points. If the exit wound looks like you hit them with a Desert Eagle, then it doesn't matter what the entry hole looked like.
I spent 24 years on the police force, I retired at the rank of Chief of Police in 1993. I also spent a bit over a year in Vietnam back in 1970-71. In my time, I have seen shootings using every round from the little .22LR and even a .25 ACP. I have seen shots that killed in one round, I have seen guys that kept coming after a dozen rounds hit him. I have attended autopsy's on the dead who died of the shootings. From all that I learned, for my duty weapon, when I had a choice and could afford a semi-auto back when LE was a wheel gun job I carried a .45 ACP and I kept her fed with 230 grain FMJ. I guess a throwback to my time in service. I always felt well armed. I had several guns over that time, even did some time carrying a Smith M59 in 9mm but always felt a bit light when it came to that. I ended up with an Astra M100 in .45ACP as my carry gun. She boasts a 10 round magazine and one in the tube makes 11. I carried 2 extra magazines and still kept her stuffed full of FMJ. Here in the Dakota's in the winter folks dress warm, they wear layers of cloths and I have seen shootings where the penetration was stifled by the cloths. The 230 grain FMJ will penetrate. those clothing and punch a nice .45 hole through the bad guy. May not stop him on the first shot but you 9mm guys with 20 rounds can keep punching, I still have 9 more chances and all of them are bigger and badder. Just my opinion. BTW most of the dead guys I saw over the years who were shot by non-law enforcement died of little .22 caliber lead bullets. The .22LR is nothing to turn your nose up at. I still have my old 9 shot .22LR revolver and don't feel underarmed if I am carrying her either (2 speed loaders keep her stuffed if I need to reload, and I have had a lot of practice with them due to my time with the model 19s.)
Your argument is only valid with FMJ or lead. Modern hollow points have devastating performance but need high velocity to function. This is why 45 defensive loads are light for caliber and that totally negates the "big, slow and heavy" argument of boomers. What also negates it is energy transfer. A lot of energy is lost punching through a guy. Going through him is like spinning wheels at a frag race. It looks great but it's wasted power. When it is dumped into the target, that is force that his body must absurb. FMJ sucks. It isn't 1968. And this is nothing new. The Speer Gold Dots are great performers and have been put a LOOOOOONG time. Long enough for you guys to realize that science has improved and your logic simply doesn't work anymore.
It didn't sound like he was arguing but simply sharing his knowledge and reasoning for what he feels comfortable carrying. You are simply regurgitating what most everyone is saying these days. I can tell you (not arguing) that a 230 gr 45acp fmj round punched through you is going to stop most people. You would need a hollow point with as you pointed out "high velocity" in 9mm to hope to exceed that damage considering it is most likely half the size. I like both rounds and have multiples of each but if I had a choice between one it would be the 45. If it was an end of the world scenario and I had to be on the move it would be the 9mm between these two but in reality for me that situation I would go for high velocity 40 gr 22LR. @@PalmettoNDN
I think the biggest takeaway here is what you are comfortable with. I love both and can shoot well with both but from a carry l perspective usually 9mm for me.
I died laughing when Charlie said "Japanese don't like it"!! In Hawaii, a lot of the 2A community are Japanese and frequently make jokes about how they would have more cousins if it weren't for the .45ACP LOL. That comment always comes up during the centuries old 9mm vs .45 debate out here!!
Y’all convinced me , between 1911 and the m9, I have noticed the quality of mags and reloading and let’s not forget the round count, I was a 1911 45 guy until I bought the m9
Is it just because it's bigger? I've only ever had nine millimeters and just recently bought my first 45. Picking it up tomorrow. I can't wait to shoot it!
To be honest, after seeing an awful lot of real gunshot wounds from a wide variety of bullets I do not place a lot of importance on the size of the pistol bullet. I have seen men killed dead by a single .380, and I have seen men with a gaping chest wound from a shotgun slug walk away. Ultimately lower velocity projectiles just make holes. If that hole perforates something important the target suffers the consequences, if it does not perforate something important they can pretty much walk away. Never ceases to amaze me how people can absorb round after round and walk themselves into the ER. Hollowpoints do quite a bit more damage than FMJ, because the expanded bullet is sharp and slices through flesh in a wider swath, cutting blood vessels and anything else soft in its way. My experience with FMJ wounds is that they seem to push things like veins and nerves out of the way and slip through the tissue between them without doing as much damage as you would expect. I have a surgery picture of the inside of my arm from my own gunshot wound where you can clearly see the bullet pushed a major nerve out of the way. the intact nerve intersects the bullet hole, impossible unless the nerve was literally pushed aside, which saved my hand from paralysis. Thank God the bad guy shot FMJ. The difference between all the pistol wounds I have seen and the few rifle wounds is night and day. There is a ton of trauma surrounding rifle wounds, which can appear like a large tear in the flesh, or a large bulge under the skin. After seeing everything I have seen I choose a good 9mm round every day. Lower recoil, higher capacity, and I trust it to do exactly what I have seen from every pistol bullet I have ever seen impact the human body.
Carrying great loads are always a good idea, but even with fmj's if your a great shot and/or close distance they can be just as deadly. It's a roll of the dice.... But for optimal performance carry defensive loads... Big hot loads... That's what my GF likes!
@@ThePatriotParadox 9 mil sucks bro thanks for the lesson about the topic with all due respect I’ve been shot by a 40 caliber around my lower legs I still feel it everyday it aches so bad happened a year ago is this normal it was a target round not hollow
@@nfbsnandbsnnwjs662 That sucks bro, one of my rules of thumb is if there is no such thing as a flesh wound. When something pokes a hole in your body it fucking hurts and it does some kind of long term damage. I said my nerve was pushed out of the way and not severed, which saved me from paralysis, but that shock still did damage to the nerve. My hand is weaker, I have less sensation and fine motor control and I get painful aches. Mine was a 9mm fmj, no bullet hole leaves one unscathed.
@@nfbsnandbsnnwjs662 9mm doesn't suck, just 40 cal(shorty 10mm) has more pressure and will feel it more in a not vital area, but if you get shot, even with a . 22lr it hurts I know... Just some more than others. 9mm +p HP would hurt like hell! If you get hit I'm a vital area, even a .22lr to the head, heart, or in your lungs will probably kill you. When I shoot a +P 9mm the recoil is about like a. 40 caliber. And a .22lr high velocity out of a 18 1/2” barrel is close to a 223 out of a 7.5” inch barrel.... Not too close but comparable. When it comes to pistol calibers, pressure and velocity is key, along with the slug type... But yeah I bet a 40 fmj hurts 🤕 worse than a 9mm fmj....but they both going to hurt, blow through ya, and make holes which if the hit veins and/or arteries, will make u spill some fluid
... didn't read the entire thing in fairness to me, but I agree based on what I read in the first few lines, I know a guy as we speak who was shot 13 times with an assault rifle, granted a few of the wounds were re-entry wounds, yet, I saw an episode of first 48 where the victim was shit with one single round of a .25 cal, and died from it...
So we finally know why both rounds are effective; the 9x19 because it does a number of soft tissue at high velocities, and the 45acp because it specifically hunts down and breaks every bone in your body that it can find. Jokes aside, some dramatic results. I wouldn't want to get hit with any of these.
The struggle is real! It’s very natural to want the biggest, which may not necessarily be the best for YOU. I worked my way through college at a meat processing plant owned by my family. Most often, I worked the kill floor. So what did we use to dispatch? It certainly wasn’t a .45, .40, or the popular 9mm. The good old .22lr did the trick. From the 2000+ beef to the 100 lb hog, with very little exception 1 round did the trick. Do I carry a .22? Nope. But if I had to I’d be comfortable enough with the option. Practice, awareness, and placement.
I saw an article recently that interviewed several ammo makers. I think it was Hornady, Norma and several others. They all said the same thing. As pistol caliber rounds move less than roughly 2000 FPS, the caliber doesn't really matter. The bullet design means far more. When a bullet moves above the 2000 FPS speed, it starts causing tears in the tissue and capillaries, up to 4 inches away from the permanent wound cavity. It is why .223 will cause far more damage than a .45. Below the speed barrier, you do not have that. So the diameter difference between .45 and 9mm is almost neglible as is the weight and ft/lbs of energy. Their recommendation based on their tests was find a caliber you can shoot well and find a bullet that reliably delivers the result you desire.
The fbi published an in depth study confirming this 2012ish. They included observations from trauma surgeons and medical examiners. This study informed their move from .40 p229 to Glock 17m. It also started the nation wide trend of departments dumping 40 for 9mm. The study also concluded that everyone from expert to novice shooters performed better with 9mm than 40 or 45 and that the higher capacity is thought to be an advantage in actual gunfights.
Well, I trained with the .45 pistol in the military. I am comfortable with it and It does the job I asked of it. Nothing against the 9mm, it's about personal preference and how accurate you can be with it. I think back to something my father told me a long time ago when we got on the subject of different calibers for different jobs. He was a career Marine and a man of few words. He looked me dead in the eye and said to me matter-of-factly, "no North Korean got back up after he shot them" when they were being overrun. That's good enough for me.
A very good friend of mine had the same experience with vietcong. Having said that, he carried a S&W 357 for most of his tour. He picked it up from a gun runner after winning a gunfight that he inadvertently drove into. He earned a bronze star with it, but his men used the 45 very effectively.
@@nospam3409 .357, that's a good one too. I had a buddy of mine that was a crew chief 1965-66. We were on the subject of guns, he showed me an old picture. He had a shoulder holster with a .357 and a .45 on his hip. He said if his Slick was going down, he wasn't going to go down empty-handed in "Indian country."
@@lpd1snipe my uncle was a huey door gunner and my father was a combat engineer. My uncle carried 2 .45's and my father bought his own .45. Also the first M16's that they put into action sucked he said so he asked to keep his M14 and they let him. Even after they ironed out the worst problems with the M16 my father said he kept his M14
I was a Supply Corporal for B Co., and HHC 3rd Ranger Battalion from 1991-1993. At the end of each quarter, I had to expend all of the surplus ammunition, so that our funding would remain the same. I fired thousands of 5.56 and 9mm rounds. I became very proficient with a 9mm Beretta. Unfortunately, due to some really messed up Battalion politics, my company and A Co., did not participate in the Battle of Mogadishu. My friends that did recounted that the 9mm. Beretta was too underpowered in combat, and the Battalion was considering going to the .45 after that, although I left the unit before that happened. As for me, I liked the Beretta. It seemed very reliable, easy to clean, and the recoil was almost nil. Great presentation as always Sire! 🙏
I assume that would be because you can’t use things like hollow point or similar rounds due to the Geneva Convention right? The special self defense rounds are where 9mm really stands up to 45. ACP is terms of damage done.
@@St3a1thsniper32 Good point, as I recall, only normal standard rounds were used, but my memory might be wrong as it’s thirty years later. The Somali fighters also used some kind of herbal stimulant that they chewed, the name of which I can’t remember either. 🫡
@@KursRageKhat. That's the stimulant. It's an herb that they chew. They get up in the morning and start chewing it. By afternoon, they are amped up and irritable. Bad combo for mean guys with guns.
@@KursRage The US military, officially, has never used hollow points, so it would've just been 9mm ball/FMJ. FMJ isn't great for stopping a threat, let alone the guys that were high as a kite. I believe I recall a SEAL or Delta guy telling a story about him lighting up a combatant with nearly an entire mag of 5.56 and he kept going for a while. Drugs will do crazy things to you in combat.
@@ggmanatee I was just the Supply Corporal for HHC 3/75th during the Battle of Mogadishu, and I was never deployed to Somalia. I heard all of their stories when they returned to Fort Benning.
I’m sorry, it was “ shotgun at the right range with the right load will physically remove a chunk of *shit* and throw that shit on the *floor*, but it’s gotta be the right load at the right range”
Whenever I hear that about the shotgun I just imagine some dude speedwalk up to a guy, shove his hand into his abdomen, and tear out his liver with extra bone and skin and just slap it onto the floor lol
My one complaint with this test is that it completely ignores the FACT that whole milk is the apex of hydration. The fact that I had to even witness a man waterboarded with 1%? is appalling.
I really hope that Charlie’s suspension is up soon. He seems like a dedicated man of science, pushing the envelope of what this world has seen, and really pushing the envelope and standards for modern medicine, hopefully. I see a very bright future in such a well spoken scientist in our community. God bless you, Charlie. And can we consider having him host one time and maybe lead a review, perhaps? Seems like a capable man for the job.
I felt the science from such a long distance away that I thought someone had finally cracked the secret of cold fusion and/or hot pockets. But this is nearly as good.
Great video! I have over 25 year in law enforcement. 20yrs with a .45 1911, and then we switched to 9mm. I was not happy to say the least. I love the 1911. However, once we transitioned, I do like some of the benefits of the 9 as a shooter. I also am now in an administrative position where I have some decision making functions, and I have to say 9 is better from that perspective. I loved the 1911, but I also put in the time to be proficient with it. Unfortunately, that can't be said for everyone, even in LE. The 1911 takes more training, and not everyone qualified well with it. Our qualifying scores went up with the 9's, which lends credence to the theory a hit with any caliber, is better than a miss of a larger caliber. There is also a financial benefit for my department with both weapon and ammo costs. There is one factor many don't consider though, maintenance. I was also one to keep my 1911 well maintained, again as said before, not everyone does that. It's a harder weapon to disassemble/reassemble, keep clean, and much less forgiving if not cleaned and oiled. Not to say maintaining a 9 isn't important, but you can run them a lot dirtier than a 1911. Obviously this is a comparison of a 1911 to any other platform, not specific to ammo. Take that into consideration when choosing any weapon. Are you going to be the type to learn your weapon both on and off range? If not, then you don't want a 1911. Maintenance should be part of your pre-purchase research! I also switched to 9 for concealed carry. Just can't beat the compacts out there now with 12-15 round mags. P365, Hellcat, etc.
Interesting to me that you said the scores went up when your department went to 9mm guns. I thought I was not a good shooter with all my plastic 9mm and then I got a 1911 and was shooting significantly better. It all has to do with the trigger. I have many 9mm and 1911's and with the exception of a 1911 in 9mm, I shoot all the 1911 significantly better than the plastic 9's. It is all about the trigger.
@@masterbroadsword3214 for me, I started out shooting 1911s didn't like the Tupperware when it came out... But now I have both, both are great... I went for a long time without going to the range. The wife and I wanted to get ccw, so I had to take a class and qualify on their range.... it had been about 15 years of not shooting.... but I grew up shooting A LOT! Since I was about 8 years old.... anyway at the range I fired so tightly and accurately that the instructions looked at me like I was lying to them.... both 1911 and G19... you couldn't even see the difference both were 18 rounds a piece both were even off to the left a half inch from dead center both were within a three inch circle with many rounds hitting the same hole over and over... I guess there is something to be said for muscle memory when it comes to shooting?.
Many LE agencies have gone back to the 9mm Luger. The 147 grain Subsonic loads from the late 80’s and 90’s which gave a terrible reputation are now very effective in newer ammunition technology. I still prefer a 115 grain +P+ or 124 grain +P or 127 grain +P+ loads. High Velocity 1,200 FPS is very effective.
My department went the opposite direction around 2003 or so. We had a few incidents of 9mm not penetrating cars etc and switched to the 45, which is still carried today.
This is why I love my Springfield 1911. It doubles as a blunt weapon once I unload every round. Nothing like a 9 lb mag well coming down onto someone grape
@@sethfrench8528 acktually that's not how liches work. Liches bind their soul within a phylactery before their body dies making them immortal. Shooting a liches body with 45 does not destroy their soul because it is no longer within their body. You must find and destroy their phylactery.
Love this guy. Mr Fudd daddy here: I have plenty of both calibers. I've been a student of ballistics my whole life. My view on this debate is this: I'll take a 45 with HST's or 230 FMJ at beyond 30 yards. 9mm with hp capacity at 25 yds or less. Not everything is based on a close quarters blazing gun battle where the hi cap 9 clearly wins the day. What's missing in this age old argument is that there's a reason troops had to make a level choice between the M1 and the 45 acp. The 45 acp shines at distances beyond the "blaze" CQB scenarios. It is ballistically similar to the 1860 army in that it can be an effective weapon beyond 50 yards. At 50 yards, I can still place a fatter plug in my target with a 45 - expansion or no expansion. But I wouldn't count on a similar terminal effect from an HST +p from my Glocks, Brownings, CZ's, Caniks, etc. at the same distance.
I absolutely love the secondary commentary from your assistant, really makes the video a lot better and I absolutely laughed my ass off so thank you sir
I have both .45 and 9mm handguns and at the end of the day if I had to neutralize a threat I know either one will do the trick as long as I can put the rounds on target. That being said I tend to lean more towards .45 because Merica.
My old man dropped 7 hopped up chinese in 1951 with 7 shots, ball ammuntion, from his personally purchased Colt Commander in .45 caliber. No need to double tap. I still own that pistol. Forgive me for my prejudice.
As the old saying goes, " the 22 in your pockets beats the 45 you left at home". The answer is to shoot what you're comfortable with. The best circumstance is you hit the target with any caliber.
Great video. I recently switched from 45 to 9 based purely on ammo cost. Obviously, this video is fuel to the fire if you just want to argue. I walk away just feeling confident in both rounds.
The only point that you didn't mention which I believe to be very relevant is the time to get back on the target. In my training, I was taught that most gun fights only last a few seconds in which multiple rounds are fired. I trained with my full sized 45 as well as my cc Glock-36. A concealable 45 has a lot of recoil. After hundreds of rounds, my consistency with the cc 45 wasn't anywhere near as accurate for double taps. There may be a better choice for a cc 45 but training with a Glock-36 isn't fun. I tried lighter ammo but the whole point of training is to become proficient with a specific set of variables so light ammo doesn't really make much sense. I am very confident that I can put more holes in the center mass with a conceal carry 9mm than I can with a conceal carry 45mm. More holes faster wins. Your video did a great job of convincing me that I made the right choice. Thanks.
9mm has come a long way and I find this video to have proof of that. I'm still old school and love my 1911, but carry more mags. I think this was a fair evaluation and appreciate the time you gentlemen put into it.
I was just talking about 9mm. As I said, I am a believer in .45 ACP and .45 LC. I just carry 2 magazines extra was my point. I did not disclose what else I have or how much.
With modern expanding ammo you will get the same result. Also 9mm is cheaper to train with, and skill is more important that caliber. I do love 1911s as well. Iconic looks and great trigger.
@@AB-nv7bz I have to admit that I agree with you, sir! I just have 6 .Kimbers and Colts in .45 and enough ammo to carry me through a number of years. Can't go back in time and start with 9mm, but I have steered friends and family that way.
As LEO who has seen my share of GSW it comes down to a few things. FMJ vs hollow points, always go with hollow points. The reason being is accounting for your shot if the round exits the body. Of course hollow points are far less likely to exit the body in the torso. FMJ can exit go through a standard wall and enter a bystander. You should consider second shot placement. Because two is better than one. What I really mean is the time it takes one to recover from the first shot then reacquire the target and fire the next round on target. Finally which weapon one is the most comfortable to carry and which one do you perform better with. I like heavy pistols but that’s me.
Absolutely. Could not have said it better. The best gun/round is the one you shoot comfortably and accurately. You could have top tier several thousand dollar gun with the latest and greatest ammo and it doesn't mean squat if you don't train. Hat is off to you sir....well it would be if I was wearing a hat.
but a 9mm gun carries more bullets, right? that seems to be somewhat of an advantage (maybe)? i guess lower recoil can be se as a good thing for the 9mm, but i am not sure.
I’ve always wanted to do a test of these two rounds with sectional density held as a constant. 9mm 115s vs .45 185s; 9mm 124s vs .45 200s; 9mm 147s vs .45 230s. It’s the only real way to compare 2 cartridges apples to apples, and you never see it mentioned.
I was really intrigued by the intelligence of your comment, which I happen to agree with. I then made the mistake of clicking on your picture. Congratulations on being the perfect woman. I will now go off to the target range and practice with my guns while simultaneously remaining heart broken at the prospect of living the rest of life without you. 🤣
Excellent point, similar to the comment I submitted. Sectional density comparisons would be a great way to evaluate the two rounds as long as other factors such as barrel length and pressure charge are also included as part of the apples to apples.method. Good comment.
you mostly dont see it mentioned because the number completely goes out the window as soon as it hits by design. its kinda like measuring a clay ball before you smack it with a hammer. if you want to measure the clay you should probably do it after. if your talking about 45-70 hard cast then SD numbers are alot more usefull
@@nymeriagloves3957 no, not my point. Prefired sectional density is an indicator of the round’s capacity for penetration dependent on bullet design. Projectile design causes the terminal sectional density to be vastly different from prefired and will inform actual penetration. So two rounds with the same sectional density in a different calibers will have equal terminal sectional density at the same expansion factor and weight retention. And a heavier round in the same weight has more capacity for penetration if expansion factor and weight retention are held constant by bullet design. Or you can get equal actual penetration with a larger expansion factor and less required weight retention in the higher SD bullet. My point is, then, that a 185 out of the 45 and a 115 out of the 9mm can both be manipulated by the designer in similar ways. A 230 out of the 45 can be manipulated across a broader range of expansion/penetration/weight retention scenarios, and should therefore be compared to a 147 in the 9mm. Often you’ll hear people say the 185 is “too light for caliber” in the 45 when they’re fine with a 115 in the 9 or they’ll say that 147 is “too big and slow” in the 9 when they’re on board with a 230 in the 45. When in reality the range of achievable designs allows those to be the most accurate comparisons.
I worked Recon and worked a bit with the fifth group. SF has a famous rule ... " NEVER carry any pistol with less than a 4 in it." Makes you wonder why they feel that way. 🤔
@Mango10449 well, I was in Vietnam in the early seventies so.. there you go. I trained on my 45, I used my 45, I still have my 45 I still shoot my 45, and I still love my 45, but.. that being said.. a lot of these modern guns are far better, lighter, ample ammo ect. But I still stick with my old 1911, it's what I know.
@@edthornton132 hell yeah man. Back then ammo was a lot different. So much work has been out into the 9mm to get it up to par with the 45 auto over the years. That certainly doesn’t diminish the 45 any.
Charlie “I think the .45 is going to win”. Garand Thumb: “If history is a pretty good indicatior*” Charlie: (as the camera pans away.) “Well the Japanese don’t like it…” That was one of the best comments of the video and it it gets totally glossed past lol.
You mean fantasy. 1911s were carried primarily by the military and almost never by law enforcement. Pistols are irrelevent to a military. It could usually have been basically anything in that holster. They won't be used anyway.
Back in 1979 before 9mm was popular in the U.S. I opted for a 9mm Browning Hi-Power over a .45 1911 as my first pistol figuring I would be able too shoot more accurately with the 9mm. That proved to be true when I competed in a IPSC competitions where I wasn’t ever the fastest but didn’t get any penalty points for killing hostage shield targets.
Sounds like complete and utter BS. .45's tend to win Bullseye competitions more than any other caliber due to their flatter trajectories from their heavier loads.
I am 77 . I have been shooting since I was 5. As I get older, the weight of the firearm and recoil of the round are playing a very important part. So I now carry either a Ruger .380 or a S&W model 640 with modern hollow point rounds.
I know absolutely nothing about guns, ammo, gear, etc. I hope to gain alot of knowledge from this channel. Thank you for not talking down on people. Hated that mindset "I know more than you so your useless." Looking forward to watching more of your videos.
Glad you told people that it comes down to training. I train constantly and I love my 9mm's and my 45's. I tend to lean to my 9's but still love my 45's, but carry 99% 9m's
Personal preferences I suppose. They’ll all kill you. This video basically like a cock sz comparison. Some women chose bigger while others chose smaller. In the end the results are the same.
The EDC pistols in 9mm are smaller and easier to conceal with low print and have good penetration. The fps velocity is as fast or faster than a .45. Good enough for me.
9mm the most popular, easiest to find, and with PCC becoming popular you can have 1 type ammo for pistol and rifle. Most PCC also take pistol mags too. A 9mm coming out of a 16 inch barrel has the same force as a .357 magnum.
@@budderybuns1859 If I was going to pick a sub sonic pistol round I would prefer a 230 gr 45 loading over a 147 gr 9mm..... What makes 9mm special is its velocity.
Like you said. Training. End of story and debate. I prefer the 9 for mag size and speed. But the 45acp has its value for more experienced shooters. Respect for both. Thank you for the demo. Honestly it’s more up to the shooter and what they are accustomed to. Training and practice are definitely key.
I remember reading a paper on the effects of bullets by a doctor who did a bajillion autopsies. After going through the gory details, it was pretty clear that the difference between handgun rounds wasn't much, and shot placement was key. It wasn't until you reached rifle rounds when you saw total devastation of the body without the need to be very accurate.
Border show the mexicans shot this guy 4 times all torso shots before made it to american side. Looked like m16. The guy survived. Read one paper of many that the 556 was meant to have survivors to interrogate. Thought provoking at least
Someone did a study on police-related shootings. On average, 24% of people who get shot by a 9mm will die. 27% of people who get shot by a .45 ACP will die. For rifles and shotguns it was >80%
A Chicago ER doc, several decades ago, said he'd patch up 9mm wounds and bad guys would go home to recover. When he got .45 wounds in bad guys he'd send them to the morque.
@@bseidem5112 Several decades before the technology of the 9mm was even growing til it became a solid self defense round. US army uses 9mm FBI uses 9mm a lot of police departments use 9mm. I'm not hating i carry a Glock 21 45acp as of now and i've carried 10mm, 9mm, etc in the past. 9mm isn't something you want to get shot with especially, with modern day self defense rounds. If you watch the whole video instead of dick ride .45 there isnt much difference clearly they're both great. I love both rounds and others like .40 short and weak and the almighty 10mm. Any of them will do the job. A 22lr kills.
All jokes aside, this is quite a macabre demonstration on how effective a “bullet” is. Bravo GT, bravo Edit: I run Buffalo bore ammo in my Taurus public defender. I have never felt inadequate in any way shape or form. That there is a stout round for m e n
Here's the thing: a couple decades ago, I would have agreed that 9mm was an underpowered round. However, over the last 15-20 years, ammo manufacturers have made a lot of improvements to the ballistics of the 9mm round.
Excellent observation. A lot of shooters today were not around back when the 9mm loads available to American shooters truly sucked, so they don't understand why, back then, there was a preference for the .45 ACP. They both sucked, but the .45 sucked less, because it was not as velocity dependent as the 9mm, and American makers refused to load the 9mm to its true potential. Most of the 9mm that actually worked at the time was restricted, police-only stuff which you often couldn't get or performed erratically. I saw this begin to change starting around the year 2000, and by 2005 we had some pretty good 9mm loads available. Standardized testing helped us define how good ammo performed so everyone could make it. Nowadays, pretty much everything works in duty calibers unless it's made by weirdos, so it's less of an issue.
@Grim Reaper 666 Not really. You can't get more capacity with the .45. I'll take the extra capacity any day. The .45 had it's day and it's day is gone.
Dr. GT with the best trick shot of the year; shooting through a torso, missing the ribs, and hitting the steel plate that was approximately 10 meters away. John Moses Browning and Captain America both nod in approval.
17:25 goes to show that +p+ and +p rounds can and will keep going through said target so in a shooting situation always keep in mind who's behind your target no need for a civilian casualty when it can be avoided
Answer 40 S&W the round they have trying to throw dirt on since 1991 . You can find the 135 grain loads up to 1400 fps and a 200 grain bullet at 900 fps. This surpasses the 357 125 grain load that was considered the ultimate one shot stop with more weight and and a bigger bullet diameter. The 9mm is a good round which has ended alot of dreams and it is the round in SMGs. And they try to claim MODERN bullets make it better than larger rounds. I remember the pre XTP Hornady 115 grain that Me and many of my friends carried in High powers. It was reliable and accurate , I think it expanded better than the XTP.
![Stromae, Pomme - “Ma Meilleure Ennemie” (from Arcane Season 2) [Official Visualizer]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1F3OGIFnW1k/mqdefault.jpg)
Don’t forget to download this stuff if you’re bored af and a big thank you for sponsoring this video! huntingclash.onelink.me/LNzZ/GarandThumb
I'd love to see you do a 460 rowland test. They make conversion barrels for 1911 and glock 21. It's meant for self defense against big game. It shoots 460rowland, 45acp, 45+p, and 45 super.
.40 S&W has entered the chat...
Ehh.. Do a review (or link to a gun guy who have) about the game and I'll seriously consider it. If it is a simulation that can teach me stuff that is useful when I apply for a hunting license, it's exactly what I've been looking for.
Science and violence!! Lab coat and pit vipers, it's go time mofos!! This is perfect!! Gun show is next week and I was debating on a caliber to buy lol.
Are y'all from California? Why do you say "Like" 10 times every sentence as if your a little valley girl?
9mm is a faster, less expensive round. You can carry more of it. You can train easier with it. You can buy it in bulk. The variety is crazy. 9mm is just the best round out there. That is why I carry a .45.
9mm is also the first to be impossible to find during panic buys.
Well that’s pretty dumb of you
@@mikestackz854 thank you!
I was told all that but laughed when I payed 10 bucks more for the same brand 9mm target loads than my 45auto lol starting to reload to save even more.
@@zacharybaldrige3047 where I’m at 9mm is half the price
I miss my uncle, a former Vietnam Ranger/Green Beret. When I asked him about calibers and whether the 9mm or .45 was better, his response was: "I've never met anyone that would let me shoot them in the chest with a .22." In other words, "doesn't matter."
Sounds like your uncle was a wise guy in the very best sense of the term
Ex deputy sheriff here. Shot placement is key, Especially now that the bad guys are wearing body armor. Center of mass is good, head is better.
That's the proper attitude. Hell, you could kill someone with a blank.
@@terryrutherford2114 dumb comment I know cops don’t aim for head
Exactly! When I was with the 2/75 I never met someone that would let me shoot them in the face lol. Or stab them lol. Think about it, guy is rushing towards you, you pull out a 22LR pistol, start at the stomach and walk it up to his face. Or just start with the face lol. I guarantee you shoot someone in the face especially the eye from a few feet, they’re going to stop.
Mike is a time traveler and he’s laughing our faces about it. Things like “arguing about it for centuries.” Come clean Garand Thumb.
For all time
When are you Naruto running through Area 51, bro? 🤔
Love your channel, bro - no homo
88 m.p.h. marty!
But is he from the past or future ? 🤔
Have Charlie on the channel
Also, if you're considering a round to carry for a CCW. In this particular situation, the +P .45 went thru the gel dummy and kept going another 50-100 feet, and rang that plate with some authority. The 9mm +P+ stopped inside of the gel dummy. If you're out in public, that extra 100ish feet could mean someone else gets hurt.
Both of them went through
Don’t run +p then
If the nine takes more shots thought then it runs a greater risk of miss-aiming during rapid fire vs a assured stopping power and slower shooting
@samworlock1987 that's what I'm talking about. You shouldn't be rapid-firing at anything anyway unless it is within a few yards. Any longer distances require you to take slower more precision shots so you don't miss. So why is there all this talk about more recoil with a 45 and easier follow-up shots with a 9 mm? I can double tap somebody with a 45 within a couple of yards, putting the rounds an inch apart. Put any greater distances I do not want to be rapid firing a 45 or a 9 mm. I don't want to miss!!!
There are 9mm rounds thar out preform the .45
The intern legally has to live at that range because it’s the only place in town sufficiently far away from elementary schools.
And sheep (there may have been an incident)
And highly populated areas
There was definitely an incident involving sheep and Velcro gloves.
Dude, these spam accounts are getting out of control ^^^
Holy shit
Although I know reporting the spam BS does nothing, I still do it out of principle
Having seen this video, I think it's safe to say that either caliber is more than sufficient for defense against an armless, legless man who struggles to sit up without assistance. Thanks, Science Man!
Ngl, you had me in the first half
OMG
Put his ass in a wheelchair without a seat belt on and I'll fight em with my ruger 22
Very funny when children don't even know what to look at to understand the point😂
Yeah, idt you understand the concept of this...Unless you were trying to be funny, either way, hard fail.
Never been shot by a 9mm, but I have been shot with a .45 through the hip and out the back of my thigh. When I got to the hospital the doctor told me that nothing was as bad as the .45, He told me that high velocity rounds usually punched through the body clean but the .45 tumbled around (like mine did) and just wiped everything out. I got an artificial hip and a femoral rod out of it but a brilliant surgeon saved my leg.
@Mike M. Ikr
@Mike M. I can honestly say I wish I had been shot with a .45 cal. Airgun instead of a 1911 .45. ijs
@Mike M. lmfao 🤣
You okay now buddy?
Not sure about pistol caliber rounds, but high velocity rifle caliber rounds such as the 55.6 and 5.45 have the propensity to tumble quite often. Afghanistan is the perfect example of the tumbling effect of those wounds. With casualties on both sides as evidence. I’d rather take my chances being shot with a 55.6 then a larger slower round. Seeing it’s mainly the Kinetic energy that kills you when hit by a large slow round. Even if the round doesn’t tumble. You get hit by say a 30.06 in the shoulder high chance you’re dying from that even if it’s a clean through and through.
"I think the .45 is gonna win"
"The Japanese don't like it"
@5:29 😂😂
😂😂👌
As far as these tests go, I’d love to see a comparison of 5.56 out of a 20” compared to a 10.3” and how much they really differ.
Check out Paul Harrell’s channel.
If we are talking about M193 or M855 then the difference would be night and day. There are some videos showing some testing of this on YT. I too, though, would love to see garandthumb do similar testing with these dummies.
ruclips.net/video/sNZv5Z1LpqI/видео.html
I think 16" vs 10.3" is better. 16" is much more common than 20"
@@JustTheTip556 but 5.56 was designed for a 20 inch
It really pushes it over the velocity threshold to get it to fragment more reliably
Hence why as issued barrels get shorter
You hear more complaints about hits not stopping people
This debate took up 50% of the gun community’s time when I bought my first S.O.F. Magazine in 1978 at the ripe old age of 11.
Can’t believe it’s gonna outlive me.
It might not if a new round takes over
You sir, are a year younger than me and thus probably a chick magnet.
@@vicnighthorse 😂Spoken like a wise elder😉. I’ve been noticing that EACH year leaves with another positive trait or function that I used to take for granted
Ironically back then it was a no brainer - I would have taken 45 over the crappy 9 hollow point of that day. In 2022 however, the tech for 9mm has caught up significantly and closed the gap. With modern ammo I’d take 9mm just for the capacity
@@joehadenough1642 Not convinced. The US adopted the .45 after failings with the .38 long Colt. The 9 para round is a different beast and 13 rnds from a Hi-Power vs 7 from a 1911 is also something to consider..
Granted today there is little to no argument but back then you could make your point either way. Vive la difference.
Own both and enjoy both:) Would have no qualms in using either to protect myself or loved ones but thankfully I guess I cannot put that level of first hand knowledge to the table. God Bless America. God Bless our Canadian Truckers. FREEDOM!
It's always a difficult choice for me when it comes to which handgun I should carry. It's either my Colt .45 or my other Colt .45.
Why not both?
Yeah dual wield those warlocks
Fr. Make a video duel wielding both
Especially if they’re able to fire the 45 schofield. If they can fire 45 acp too then they can handle the pressures of many more different rounds
-And 2 zig zags, baby thats all we need..
I've always wanted to see 9mm vs .45ACP on levels of body armor.
They're both worthless in that scenario
there are only a few rounds on planet earth that could go through body armor, and neither you or I are qualified enough to purchase them.
U can buy steel core bullets for any rifle caliber and reload them.
@@skate5652who told you that lol
nothing about what you wrote was truthful@@skate5652
Absolutely crazy, I was looking for 9mm vs 45 ACP videos last night and couldn't find any real good ones, and here comes Garand Thumb to save the day....😁
Nostalgic
me too
You summoned a video from garand as well as all the spamming E-thots on the internet. Quite the skill
Colion noir has some hilarious videos on it
You masochist……
That 80's retro intro is one of the greatest things I've ever witnessed in my life. As a child of the 80's, I applaud you.
CarniK Con called. He's proud of you, Mike. Real proud.
If there's one thing I've learned over the 13 years of being a medic, placement is more important than caliber.
Get both
Amen brother
well, it depend on the caliber too.
imagine two person, one get hit by a .22lr in the center of mass, the other get hit by a 9mm at the same place, the one who get hit by the
.22lr have better chance of surviving the shot simply because of the energy of the round, because of the velocity of the ammo, a .22lr will exit the body and a 9mm will not in most of case
But the same place hit with different calibers will often yeld different results.
@@joak9755 I don't have to imagine that. Seen it plenty of times.. I'm not disputing the obvious. You are correct. However my position stands. More emphasis is owed to accuracy, not caliber.
Either of these rounds is gonna get the job done in terms of ballistics. For me, the lower recoil, greater capacity, and lower training cost of the 9mm make it an easy decision for concealed carry. I suspect I will add a 45, most likely a 1911 or similar, to my collection at some point, but that will be just for fun. But, that’s just me.
Oh he did
I’d only probably choose 45 because of capacity limits in MA. If I could get a double stacked 9mm it would be better so I’d compensate with a larger round
Charlie chugging milk in the background and acting extremely awkward after referencing he had been banned from the public library is a truly epic character arc
Charlie was awszons
Not the only one who notices it
@@MakeAndFixItYourSelfProjects no one would care of you ate a 45...
The milk chugging had me laughing.
He was acting a little more than weird in this one
My favorite quote: "Terminal ballistics. Pistols put holes in people, rifles put holes through people, shotguns at the right range with the right load will physically remove a chunk of shit off your opponent and throw that shit on the floor, and you will have to get someone to come in an clean the shit up with a shovel"
- Clint Smith. Thunder Ranch.
This has always been my favorite Clint Smith quote.
…and this helped the 45 vs 9 debate how?
hahaha lol
@@squiffedallday by getting a shotgun instead XDDDDD jkjk :D
LOL cool comment😄👍
Back in the 1990's, I was in the Army, and I was sitting with some other non-coms who were having this debate early on. The heart of the discussion was being led by those of us who were actually reading up on ballistics at the time due to the Army's transition from .45 calibre to 9mm. My 1st Sgt. at the time, who was a Vietnam vet about to retire, was asked his opinion on the whole thing. He sat down his drink, thought for a moment, and answered, "Bigger fucking bullets make bigger fucking holes." I always thought that that was an interesting perspective. 😂
That's been my perspective for a long time because barring any other bullet design, besides fmj, all you're left with is the caliber/size of the projectile and what propellant is used to get to a certain velocity, of course along with other components and case designs. It's really the only truth, bigger bullets make bigger holes 🤷
From a military perspective, gaining double the ammo capacity and a reduced recoil in a weapon that is about the same weight out ways the .07" ish size difference. 9mm kills fine just as 5.56 does. Saying you NEED a .45 is like saying you need a 30-06 over the 5.56.
Outside of the military, just use hollow points. If the exit wound looks like you hit them with a Desert Eagle, then it doesn't matter what the entry hole looked like.
Were there any other people that read it with a country accent
@@Greyhound706 the quote, yes
9mm might expand, but .45 ain't gonna shrink.
I spent 24 years on the police force, I retired at the rank of Chief of Police in 1993. I also spent a bit over a year in Vietnam back in 1970-71. In my time, I have seen shootings using every round from the little .22LR and even a .25 ACP. I have seen shots that killed in one round, I have seen guys that kept coming after a dozen rounds hit him. I have attended autopsy's on the dead who died of the shootings. From all that I learned, for my duty weapon, when I had a choice and could afford a semi-auto back when LE was a wheel gun job I carried a .45 ACP and I kept her fed with 230 grain FMJ. I guess a throwback to my time in service. I always felt well armed. I had several guns over that time, even did some time carrying a Smith M59 in 9mm but always felt a bit light when it came to that. I ended up with an Astra M100 in .45ACP as my carry gun. She boasts a 10 round magazine and one in the tube makes 11. I carried 2 extra magazines and still kept her stuffed full of FMJ. Here in the Dakota's in the winter folks dress warm, they wear layers of cloths and I have seen shootings where the penetration was stifled by the cloths. The 230 grain FMJ will penetrate. those clothing and punch a nice .45 hole through the bad guy. May not stop him on the first shot but you 9mm guys with 20 rounds can keep punching, I still have 9 more chances and all of them are bigger and badder. Just my opinion. BTW most of the dead guys I saw over the years who were shot by non-law enforcement died of little .22 caliber lead bullets. The .22LR is nothing to turn your nose up at. I still have my old 9 shot .22LR revolver and don't feel underarmed if I am carrying her either (2 speed loaders keep her stuffed if I need to reload, and I have had a lot of practice with them due to my time with the model 19s.)
Your argument is only valid with FMJ or lead. Modern hollow points have devastating performance but need high velocity to function. This is why 45 defensive loads are light for caliber and that totally negates the "big, slow and heavy" argument of boomers. What also negates it is energy transfer. A lot of energy is lost punching through a guy. Going through him is like spinning wheels at a frag race. It looks great but it's wasted power. When it is dumped into the target, that is force that his body must absurb. FMJ sucks. It isn't 1968. And this is nothing new. The Speer Gold Dots are great performers and have been put a LOOOOOONG time. Long enough for you guys to realize that science has improved and your logic simply doesn't work anymore.
Lol the old guys have killed more bad guys on foreign soil. That’s a lot of hear say for a lad who doesn’t have 33 bodies via a 1911
@@60duce2lol winner. +1
Check out the 9mm extreme defender solid monolithic from Underwood. The best of both worlds FMJ+Hollow point
It didn't sound like he was arguing but simply sharing his knowledge and reasoning for what he feels comfortable carrying. You are simply regurgitating what most everyone is saying these days. I can tell you (not arguing) that a 230 gr 45acp fmj round punched through you is going to stop most people. You would need a hollow point with as you pointed out "high velocity" in 9mm to hope to exceed that damage considering it is most likely half the size. I like both rounds and have multiples of each but if I had a choice between one it would be the 45. If it was an end of the world scenario and I had to be on the move it would be the 9mm between these two but in reality for me that situation I would go for high velocity 40 gr 22LR. @@PalmettoNDN
I know slow mo cams are expensive but having one on the back side to see the bullet exiting would be very cool as well
u can film a mirror on a 45 angle ')
Imagine accidentally shooting a slow mo cam 😭🤣
“People have been arguing 9mm VS .45 for centuries”
My favorite Shakespeare quote, “.45, because those gents don’t maketh a .46”
Bruhh
That's hilarious
Classic shakespear.
.50 exists
Sun tzu tells us that shot placement is more important than calibre. Honest....
As Clint Smith likes to say, "The handgun is what you use to get to the long gun you should have had in the first place."
I read this in smoker gravel tone
i mean to be fair you cant really conceal carry and quickdraw a barrett m99 for self defense
That's why he made an AR that you can finger bang, but introduces more blockage causing material than normal...
Based
@@themilkman6969 can't or won't
I think the biggest takeaway here is what you are comfortable with. I love both and can shoot well with both but from a carry l perspective usually 9mm for me.
Charlie is such a kind host letting Garand Thumb on his show to do science
Charlie is hilarious! I think he should get his own channel called pump finger. Like when you pinch your finger pumping up your crossman.
@@williambilse lol
I died laughing when Charlie said "Japanese don't like it"!! In Hawaii, a lot of the 2A community are Japanese and frequently make jokes about how they would have more cousins if it weren't for the .45ACP LOL. That comment always comes up during the centuries old 9mm vs .45 debate out here!!
Is it a ww2 joke?
@@132oink yes, obviously.
@@132oink no its a holocaust joke
There's a 2A community in Hawaii? Seems like it's pretty bad there when it comes to 2A...
@@hahka-0168 This is Hawaii brah, laws are just suggestions. The 2A is alive and well out here.
Just remember guys...
Japan didn't surrender until we flew over Hiroshima and Nagasaki and fired two rounds of .45 into the ground.
Two world wars
@Zeki Alpon BE GONE!!!!
Nah, it was the BAR that ended 2 world wars.
30-06 For The Win.
@@Real11BangBang mass report them for commercial spam.
@@lonebikeroftheapocalypse9527 done
"The Japanese Don't like it"
Y’all convinced me , between 1911 and the m9, I have noticed the quality of mags and reloading and let’s not forget the round count, I was a 1911 45 guy until I bought the m9
The M9 is a sexy ass gun
It is and the girsan regard mc is so reliable, well made, beautiful and good priced
@@ryangalvin4701 Just get a Beretta instead of a clone. Don't settle.
@@Mason-zp8yb no need , girsan makes great guns
1911 had better trigger. And if you like smaller bullets sure for smaller holes and over penetration
Tbh I was pretty blown away by the performance of the 9mm. Been a .45 guy my whole life and after watching this I’ll stay with .45
Would you say that your lungs were blown out of your body?
@@Gam1ngGor1lla
nope, but my coom was blown out of my cock though.
It is incredibly important to carry 45 if you often miss the 5 ring by 1/32 of an inch. Critical.
🤣
Is it just because it's bigger? I've only ever had nine millimeters and just recently bought my first 45. Picking it up tomorrow. I can't wait to shoot it!
To be honest, after seeing an awful lot of real gunshot wounds from a wide variety of bullets I do not place a lot of importance on the size of the pistol bullet. I have seen men killed dead by a single .380, and I have seen men with a gaping chest wound from a shotgun slug walk away. Ultimately lower velocity projectiles just make holes. If that hole perforates something important the target suffers the consequences, if it does not perforate something important they can pretty much walk away. Never ceases to amaze me how people can absorb round after round and walk themselves into the ER. Hollowpoints do quite a bit more damage than FMJ, because the expanded bullet is sharp and slices through flesh in a wider swath, cutting blood vessels and anything else soft in its way. My experience with FMJ wounds is that they seem to push things like veins and nerves out of the way and slip through the tissue between them without doing as much damage as you would expect. I have a surgery picture of the inside of my arm from my own gunshot wound where you can clearly see the bullet pushed a major nerve out of the way. the intact nerve intersects the bullet hole, impossible unless the nerve was literally pushed aside, which saved my hand from paralysis. Thank God the bad guy shot FMJ.
The difference between all the pistol wounds I have seen and the few rifle wounds is night and day. There is a ton of trauma surrounding rifle wounds, which can appear like a large tear in the flesh, or a large bulge under the skin.
After seeing everything I have seen I choose a good 9mm round every day. Lower recoil, higher capacity, and I trust it to do exactly what I have seen from every pistol bullet I have ever seen impact the human body.
Carrying great loads are always a good idea, but even with fmj's if your a great shot and/or close distance they can be just as deadly. It's a roll of the dice.... But for optimal performance carry defensive loads... Big hot loads... That's what my GF likes!
@@ThePatriotParadox 9 mil sucks bro thanks for the lesson about the topic with all due respect I’ve been shot by a 40 caliber around my lower legs I still feel it everyday it aches so bad happened a year ago is this normal it was a target round not hollow
@@nfbsnandbsnnwjs662 That sucks bro, one of my rules of thumb is if there is no such thing as a flesh wound. When something pokes a hole in your body it fucking hurts and it does some kind of long term damage. I said my nerve was pushed out of the way and not severed, which saved me from paralysis, but that shock still did damage to the nerve. My hand is weaker, I have less sensation and fine motor control and I get painful aches. Mine was a 9mm fmj, no bullet hole leaves one unscathed.
@@nfbsnandbsnnwjs662 9mm doesn't suck, just 40 cal(shorty 10mm) has more pressure and will feel it more in a not vital area, but if you get shot, even with a . 22lr it hurts I know... Just some more than others. 9mm +p HP would hurt like hell! If you get hit I'm a vital area, even a .22lr to the head, heart, or in your lungs will probably kill you. When I shoot a +P 9mm the recoil is about like a. 40 caliber. And a .22lr high velocity out of a 18 1/2” barrel is close to a 223 out of a 7.5” inch barrel.... Not too close but comparable. When it comes to pistol calibers, pressure and velocity is key, along with the slug type... But yeah I bet a 40 fmj hurts 🤕 worse than a 9mm fmj....but they both going to hurt, blow through ya, and make holes which if the hit veins and/or arteries, will make u spill some fluid
... didn't read the entire thing in fairness to me, but I agree based on what I read in the first few lines, I know a guy as we speak who was shot 13 times with an assault rifle, granted a few of the wounds were re-entry wounds, yet, I saw an episode of first 48 where the victim was shit with one single round of a .25 cal, and died from it...
“The stone that David used to kill Goliath was actually a 45 ACP projectile.”
-Colion Noir.
Jesus Christ is King.
@@dabeln1 i am jesus
Yeah. And traveling at roughly the same velocity.
Colin who?
@@macfiona4545 Colion noir he used to be an nra spokesperson and now makes pro 2a videos independently
I decided to carry a 20mm single shot. Something somewhere is getting hit.
If you ever bumped your scope , and had to go out in the middle of the night, to double check zero. Hit that subscribe button.
I was already subscribed but I hit the like instead. We all been there before 😂
BOTS SUX ^^^^
I would like to think a good mount shouldn’t lose zero
So we finally know why both rounds are effective; the 9x19 because it does a number of soft tissue at high velocities, and the 45acp because it specifically hunts down and breaks every bone in your body that it can find.
Jokes aside, some dramatic results. I wouldn't want to get hit with any of these.
Charlie Deserves a permanent position in the laboratory - he adds a bit of eloquence and class that has just been missing..... just ask japan.
The fucking casual milk drinking had me rolling
5:33 “the Japanese don’t like it” 😂😂😂😂
@@richardcuriel315 caught that too, got a hearty chuckle from me
The struggle is real! It’s very natural to want the biggest, which may not necessarily be the best for YOU. I worked my way through college at a meat processing plant owned by my family. Most often, I worked the kill floor. So what did we use to dispatch? It certainly wasn’t a .45, .40, or the popular 9mm. The good old .22lr did the trick. From the 2000+ beef to the 100 lb hog, with very little exception 1 round did the trick. Do I carry a .22? Nope. But if I had to I’d be comfortable enough with the option. Practice, awareness, and placement.
I saw an article recently that interviewed several ammo makers. I think it was Hornady, Norma and several others. They all said the same thing. As pistol caliber rounds move less than roughly 2000 FPS, the caliber doesn't really matter. The bullet design means far more. When a bullet moves above the 2000 FPS speed, it starts causing tears in the tissue and capillaries, up to 4 inches away from the permanent wound cavity. It is why .223 will cause far more damage than a .45. Below the speed barrier, you do not have that. So the diameter difference between .45 and 9mm is almost neglible as is the weight and ft/lbs of energy. Their recommendation based on their tests was find a caliber you can shoot well and find a bullet that reliably delivers the result you desire.
So basically, overpressure tokarev time
.45 guys are gonna have a hard time with that
The fbi published an in depth study confirming this 2012ish. They included observations from trauma surgeons and medical examiners. This study informed their move from .40 p229 to Glock 17m. It also started the nation wide trend of departments dumping 40 for 9mm. The study also concluded that everyone from expert to novice shooters performed better with 9mm than 40 or 45 and that the higher capacity is thought to be an advantage in actual gunfights.
@@NM-235 I actually am more accurate and comfortable shooting .45 acp than I am with 9mm.
22tcm should be the new 9mm
Mike is a kind hearted human being for being an Equal Opportunity Employer to that nice slow kid.
You got it all wrong.
Charlie is clearly the brains of this operation.
"My assistant, Beaker, er, Charlie".
Well, I trained with the .45 pistol in the military. I am comfortable with it and It does the job I asked of it. Nothing against the 9mm, it's about personal preference and how accurate you can be with it. I think back to something my father told me a long time ago when we got on the subject of different calibers for different jobs. He was a career Marine and a man of few words. He looked me dead in the eye and said to me matter-of-factly, "no North Korean got back up after he shot them" when they were being overrun. That's good enough for me.
A very good friend of mine had the same experience with vietcong. Having said that, he carried a S&W 357 for most of his tour. He picked it up from a gun runner after winning a gunfight that he inadvertently drove into. He earned a bronze star with it, but his men used the 45 very effectively.
@@nospam3409 .357, that's a good one too. I had a buddy of mine that was a crew chief 1965-66. We were on the subject of guns, he showed me an old picture. He had a shoulder holster with a .357 and a .45 on his hip. He said if his Slick was going down, he wasn't going to go down empty-handed in "Indian country."
@@lpd1snipe my uncle was a huey door gunner and my father was a combat engineer. My uncle carried 2 .45's and my father bought his own .45. Also the first M16's that they put into action sucked he said so he asked to keep his M14 and they let him. Even after they ironed out the worst problems with the M16 my father said he kept his M14
@@jamessampson964 I trained with the M14 it's a fine rifle.
Plenty of cops have had the same thing happen using a 9mm.
I was a Supply Corporal for B Co., and HHC 3rd Ranger Battalion from 1991-1993. At the end of each quarter, I had to expend all of the surplus ammunition, so that our funding would remain the same. I fired thousands of 5.56 and 9mm rounds. I became very proficient with a 9mm Beretta. Unfortunately, due to some really messed up Battalion politics, my company and A Co., did not participate in the Battle of Mogadishu. My friends that did recounted that the 9mm. Beretta was too underpowered in combat, and the Battalion was considering going to the .45 after that, although I left the unit before that happened. As for me, I liked the Beretta. It seemed very reliable, easy to clean, and the recoil was almost nil. Great presentation as always Sire! 🙏
I assume that would be because you can’t use things like hollow point or similar rounds due to the Geneva Convention right? The special self defense rounds are where 9mm really stands up to 45. ACP is terms of damage done.
@@St3a1thsniper32 Good point, as I recall, only normal standard rounds were used, but my memory might be wrong as it’s thirty years later. The Somali fighters also used some kind of herbal stimulant that they chewed, the name of which I can’t remember either. 🫡
@@KursRageKhat. That's the stimulant. It's an herb that they chew. They get up in the morning and start chewing it. By afternoon, they are amped up and irritable. Bad combo for mean guys with guns.
@@KursRage The US military, officially, has never used hollow points, so it would've just been 9mm ball/FMJ. FMJ isn't great for stopping a threat, let alone the guys that were high as a kite. I believe I recall a SEAL or Delta guy telling a story about him lighting up a combatant with nearly an entire mag of 5.56 and he kept going for a while. Drugs will do crazy things to you in combat.
@@ggmanatee I was just the Supply Corporal for HHC 3/75th during the Battle of Mogadishu, and I was never deployed to Somalia. I heard all of their stories when they returned to Fort Benning.
"Pistols put holes in people."
"Rifles put holes through people"
"A shotgun will rip chunks of flesh and throw it on the floor" -Clint Smith
I’m sorry, it was “ shotgun at the right range with the right load will physically remove a chunk of *shit* and throw that shit on the *floor*, but it’s gotta be the right load at the right range”
@@tristanwelch424 75 yards with a skeet load, didn’t do much, you’re right, double ought buck at 3 yards big ass hole.
My academy instructor turned me onto him the old thunder ranch, dude is crazy. Some of his videos you cant help but laugh hes just so savage
@@tristanwelch424 excuse me for getting the gist of it from memory. 👍🏻forgiveness, please!
Whenever I hear that about the shotgun I just imagine some dude speedwalk up to a guy, shove his hand into his abdomen, and tear out his liver with extra bone and skin and just slap it onto the floor lol
My one complaint with this test is that it completely ignores the FACT that whole milk is the apex of hydration. The fact that I had to even witness a man waterboarded with 1%? is appalling.
🤣🤣🤣It was an abomination!!
💯💯💯💯
Skim milk is objectively more hydrating
Water gang
Hear hear
Charlie is the man we need in such trying times.
Freaking funny dry humor! More Charlie!
I feel there was a missing Milton opportunity here
Why is there gay guys on his t shirt. Makes me sad
@@deserthawk4178 shame
@@deserthawk4178 that shirt is awesome and I want one
Summer: 9mm subcompact in my shorts pocket
Winter: Full size 45 ACP under jacket.
🤙🏻💯
Fr. that's a vibe
That's how I do it.
Figured id see “ Shotgun down pants leg” somewhere
Now that's just too reasonable.
I really hope that Charlie’s suspension is up soon. He seems like a dedicated man of science, pushing the envelope of what this world has seen, and really pushing the envelope and standards for modern medicine, hopefully. I see a very bright future in such a well spoken scientist in our community. God bless you, Charlie. And can we consider having him host one time and maybe lead a review, perhaps? Seems like a capable man for the job.
Geniuses are never welcome in their own time.
Charlie is clearly the brains of the operation.
Charlie has perfect timing in response to your "Straight Man" questions. Excellent comic performance by the whole team in pursuit of SCIENCE!
Im new, please tell me hes pretending to be stupid
@@philipschmid9352 yes.
Charlie is cracking me up
@@scottcantdance804 "Once the permanent suspension is up, I hope to get back to the library!" ...... Charlie the Squire.
Dude Charlie had me cracking up with his off hand comments 😂
I felt the science from such a long distance away that I thought someone had finally cracked the secret of cold fusion and/or hot pockets. But this is nearly as good.
Psst…air fry those hot pockets. Pass on the wisdom,
Charlie's pathological pathologist is brilliant. "I don't know if we can totally rule out a preexisting twerk injury."
Great video! I have over 25 year in law enforcement. 20yrs with a .45 1911, and then we switched to 9mm. I was not happy to say the least. I love the 1911. However, once we transitioned, I do like some of the benefits of the 9 as a shooter. I also am now in an administrative position where I have some decision making functions, and I have to say 9 is better from that perspective. I loved the 1911, but I also put in the time to be proficient with it. Unfortunately, that can't be said for everyone, even in LE. The 1911 takes more training, and not everyone qualified well with it. Our qualifying scores went up with the 9's, which lends credence to the theory a hit with any caliber, is better than a miss of a larger caliber. There is also a financial benefit for my department with both weapon and ammo costs. There is one factor many don't consider though, maintenance. I was also one to keep my 1911 well maintained, again as said before, not everyone does that. It's a harder weapon to disassemble/reassemble, keep clean, and much less forgiving if not cleaned and oiled. Not to say maintaining a 9 isn't important, but you can run them a lot dirtier than a 1911. Obviously this is a comparison of a 1911 to any other platform, not specific to ammo. Take that into consideration when choosing any weapon. Are you going to be the type to learn your weapon both on and off range? If not, then you don't want a 1911. Maintenance should be part of your pre-purchase research! I also switched to 9 for concealed carry. Just can't beat the compacts out there now with 12-15 round mags. P365, Hellcat, etc.
Interesting to me that you said the scores went up when your department went to 9mm guns.
I thought I was not a good shooter with all my plastic 9mm and then I got a 1911 and was shooting significantly better. It all has to do with the trigger. I have many 9mm and 1911's and with the exception of a 1911 in 9mm, I shoot all the 1911 significantly better than the plastic 9's. It is all about the trigger.
@@masterbroadsword3214 for me, I started out shooting 1911s didn't like the Tupperware when it came out... But now I have both, both are great... I went for a long time without going to the range. The wife and I wanted to get ccw, so I had to take a class and qualify on their range.... it had been about 15 years of not shooting.... but I grew up shooting A LOT! Since I was about 8 years old.... anyway at the range I fired so tightly and accurately that the instructions looked at me like I was lying to them.... both 1911 and G19... you couldn't even see the difference both were 18 rounds a piece both were even off to the left a half inch from dead center both were within a three inch circle with many rounds hitting the same hole over and over... I guess there is something to be said for muscle memory when it comes to shooting?.
I believe the distance was 7, 14 and 21 yards.. which seemed very simple to me..
Many LE agencies have gone back to the 9mm Luger. The 147 grain Subsonic loads from the late 80’s and 90’s which gave a terrible reputation are now very effective in newer ammunition technology. I still prefer a 115 grain +P+ or 124 grain +P or 127 grain +P+ loads. High Velocity 1,200 FPS is very effective.
My department went the opposite direction around 2003 or so. We had a few incidents of 9mm not penetrating cars etc and switched to the 45, which is still carried today.
This is why I love my Springfield 1911. It doubles as a blunt weapon once I unload every round. Nothing like a 9 lb mag well coming down onto someone grape
With all due respect, good luck getting close enough to pistol-whip your opponent in a gunfight.
@@sninctbur3726 could always have a last stand. I'd rather have a 1911 then some plastic junk to swing at someone's head.
@@os7349 this is the most fudd shit I’ve seen today
@@os7349 I'd rather not be the dumb ass trying to pistol whip someone because I ran out of ammo
At least upgrade to a 10mm 1911@@os7349
I've heard rumors that while 9mm kills the body, 45 ACP kills the soul.
I bet that makes sure that they don’t come back as a lich
@@sethfrench8528 acktually that's not how liches work. Liches bind their soul within a phylactery before their body dies making them immortal.
Shooting a liches body with 45 does not destroy their soul because it is no longer within their body.
You must find and destroy their phylactery.
@@admiralsnackbar2811 🤓
@@admiralsnackbar2811 my dude really just said umm akshually☝️🤓
@@blakevanness glad you clarified - i was gonna ax a more pacific querstion
Love this guy. Mr Fudd daddy here: I have plenty of both calibers. I've been a student of ballistics my whole life. My view on this debate is this: I'll take a 45 with HST's or 230 FMJ at beyond 30 yards. 9mm with hp capacity at 25 yds or less. Not everything is based on a close quarters blazing gun battle where the hi cap 9 clearly wins the day. What's missing in this age old argument is that there's a reason troops had to make a level choice between the M1 and the 45 acp. The 45 acp shines at distances beyond the "blaze" CQB scenarios. It is ballistically similar to the 1860 army in that it can be an effective weapon beyond 50 yards. At 50 yards, I can still place a fatter plug in my target with a 45 - expansion or no expansion. But I wouldn't count on a similar terminal effect from an HST +p from my Glocks, Brownings, CZ's, Caniks, etc. at the same distance.
Imagine using anything less than a pistol chambered in .50AE
Nah it's all about that 700 nitro express
That would be golden 😂
"Well this is the .44 Automag, and if properly used it can remove the fingerprints."
*squints menacingly*
Imagine that pistol not jamming after two rounds
Imagine using less than a 8.4cm "Carl Gustav" for concealed carry.
As a former medical student I can confirm that Charlie's coat is referred to as the 'short coat of shame'.
I was an attending at a hospital that had the medical students wear long coats...it was weird.
Love to see Garand Thumb working with the local special needs charities. Thank you Mike, so touching!
You stacked the ammo in favor of the nine. I own both 9 and 45, carry 9 most because of capacity .
Noticed this as well
Facts. Definitely wasn’t an even matchup on ammo choices.
THIS ^^^ Not using 230 gr ammo defeats the whole purpose of the 45ACP.
I absolutely love the secondary commentary from your assistant, really makes the video a lot better and I absolutely laughed my ass off so thank you sir
"Dudes who support gun control have wives that have boyfriends"
As the great warrior poet TheRussianBadger once said: "9mm kills the body but 45 ACP kills the soul"
“Gotta make sure they don’t come back as a lich.”
Made me chuckle. Thanks.
Duh, you don’t want them coming back as a lich
Miss when he used the .357 in BF3 and BF4. Good times.
OUI
I have both .45 and 9mm handguns and at the end of the day if I had to neutralize a threat I know either one will do the trick as long as I can put the rounds on target. That being said I tend to lean more towards .45 because Merica.
I can see you are a Man of Culture
@@nostradamus7648 And a damn fine American
Hk usp 45 baby
Because shooting twice is silly
Probably more surplus.45 floating around if times get tough but 9mm is currently cheaper
My old man dropped 7 hopped up chinese in 1951 with 7 shots, ball ammuntion, from his personally purchased Colt Commander in .45 caliber. No need to double tap. I still own that pistol. Forgive me for my prejudice.
“Once the permanent suspension is up, I’m really hoping to go back” - Charlie The Medical Squire
I would like your comment, but it is happily sitting at .223 so I shall not disturb the balance.
I literally bought my first .45acp on Wednesday. It’s a 1943 Colt Government and I’m totally in love with it.
I'm sssoooo jealous 😍🤤🤤🤤🤤🤤
I'm buying my second 1911 but I'm building it in 9mm w/ a ramped barrel for extra spicy 9 major loads.
How much did that run ya.
As the old saying goes, " the 22 in your pockets beats the 45 you left at home".
The answer is to shoot what you're comfortable with. The best circumstance is you hit the target with any caliber.
Yup, basically the most impactful you can reliably hit with.
If it was just about size, we'd all be running around with deagles in 50 AE
@@HappyBeezerStudios or break barrel 8" action/nitro express LMAO like god damn space pirates.
Quite so. 12-guage magnum buckshot will outshoot ANY pistol: Clint Eastwood notwithanding.
Great video. I recently switched from 45 to 9 based purely on ammo cost. Obviously, this video is fuel to the fire if you just want to argue. I walk away just feeling confident in both rounds.
Good choise
"Dudes who support gun control, have wives who have boyfriends" very well said larry.
HA!!!! YEP.
😂✔️😂
I suport gun control because the life of my wife black son matter
100% accurate
@@lulapt2030 then you should support their right to defend themselves.
"I think the .45 is gonna win."
"I mean, history has proven that it's pretty good, Charlie. Thank you."
"The Japanese dont like it."
>ded
Mojo said he’s just here for the violence, but Dr. Thumb brings the violence every Sunday. Consistency is key
The only point that you didn't mention which I believe to be very relevant is the time to get back on the target. In my training, I was taught that most gun fights only last a few seconds in which multiple rounds are fired. I trained with my full sized 45 as well as my cc Glock-36. A concealable 45 has a lot of recoil. After hundreds of rounds, my consistency with the cc 45 wasn't anywhere near as accurate for double taps. There may be a better choice for a cc 45 but training with a Glock-36 isn't fun. I tried lighter ammo but the whole point of training is to become proficient with a specific set of variables so light ammo doesn't really make much sense. I am very confident that I can put more holes in the center mass with a conceal carry 9mm than I can with a conceal carry 45mm. More holes faster wins. Your video did a great job of convincing me that I made the right choice. Thanks.
My biggest take- away from this video is the thought of how creepy/ interesting the world would be if humans were as translucent as the test dummies.
They are translucent. They are full of shit. Some have more of it than others.
Great, now thats how i am going to see people from now on....lol
Imagine watching someone's heart beating after a marathon
@@sebastianriz4703 imagine a fat guy's heart after mowing down a cake
Hahaha. Awesome.
Charlie is now a asset since he gave dad advice.
I was rolling when he interrupted Mike to give his dad advice. 🤣
9mm has come a long way and I find this video to have proof of that. I'm still old school and love my 1911, but carry more mags. I think this was a fair evaluation and appreciate the time you gentlemen put into it.
just means your stockpile isn't enough, I suggest to always have a stockpile of 5000 rounds at any given time
I was just talking about 9mm. As I said, I am a believer in .45 ACP and .45 LC. I just carry 2 magazines extra was my point. I did not disclose what else I have or how much.
With modern expanding ammo you will get the same result. Also 9mm is cheaper to train with, and skill is more important that caliber.
I do love 1911s as well. Iconic looks and great trigger.
@@AB-nv7bz I have to admit that I agree with you, sir! I just have 6 .Kimbers and Colts in .45 and enough ammo to carry me through a number of years. Can't go back in time and start with 9mm, but I have steered friends and family that way.
@@williamrooth I got a kimber and a sig p226 extreme both are great shooters
As LEO who has seen my share of GSW it comes down to a few things. FMJ vs hollow points, always go with hollow points. The reason being is accounting for your shot if the round exits the body. Of course hollow points are far less likely to exit the body in the torso. FMJ can exit go through a standard wall and enter a bystander.
You should consider second shot placement. Because two is better than one. What I really mean is the time it takes one to recover from the first shot then reacquire the target and fire the next round on target.
Finally which weapon one is the most comfortable to carry and which one do you perform better with.
I like heavy pistols but that’s me.
I think this really just drives home 3 points. 1: use the gun and round you're most comfortable with 2: shot placement and 3: training
Absolutely. Could not have said it better. The best gun/round is the one you shoot comfortably and accurately. You could have top tier several thousand dollar gun with the latest and greatest ammo and it doesn't mean squat if you don't train. Hat is off to you sir....well it would be if I was wearing a hat.
The three most important things are accuracy, accuracy, and accuracy. You only get that with comfort, placement, and practice.
Point 4: carry a rifle whenever possible.
@@kassper82 I prefer just using superior volume of fire instead. I usually conceal carry a Glock 18 with a drum mag attached
but a 9mm gun carries more bullets, right? that seems to be somewhat of an advantage (maybe)? i guess lower recoil can be se as a good thing for the 9mm, but i am not sure.
I’ve always wanted to do a test of these two rounds with sectional density held as a constant. 9mm 115s vs .45 185s; 9mm 124s vs .45 200s; 9mm 147s vs .45 230s. It’s the only real way to compare 2 cartridges apples to apples, and you never see it mentioned.
I was really intrigued by the intelligence of your comment, which I happen to agree with. I then made the mistake of clicking on your picture. Congratulations on being the perfect woman. I will now go off to the target range and practice with my guns while simultaneously remaining heart broken at the prospect of living the rest of life without you. 🤣
Excellent point, similar to the comment I submitted. Sectional density comparisons would be a great way to evaluate the two rounds as long as other factors such as barrel length and pressure charge are also included as part of the apples to apples.method. Good comment.
@@orangescout1967 Simp !!!
you mostly dont see it mentioned because the number completely goes out the window as soon as it hits by design. its kinda like measuring a clay ball before you smack it with a hammer. if you want to measure the clay you should probably do it after. if your talking about 45-70 hard cast then SD numbers are alot more usefull
@@nymeriagloves3957 no, not my point. Prefired sectional density is an indicator of the round’s capacity for penetration dependent on bullet design. Projectile design causes the terminal sectional density to be vastly different from prefired and will inform actual penetration. So two rounds with the same sectional density in a different calibers will have equal terminal sectional density at the same expansion factor and weight retention.
And a heavier round in the same weight has more capacity for penetration if expansion factor and weight retention are held constant by bullet design. Or you can get equal actual penetration with a larger expansion factor and less required weight retention in the higher SD bullet.
My point is, then, that a 185 out of the 45 and a 115 out of the 9mm can both be manipulated by the designer in similar ways. A 230 out of the 45 can be manipulated across a broader range of expansion/penetration/weight retention scenarios, and should therefore be compared to a 147 in the 9mm.
Often you’ll hear people say the 185 is “too light for caliber” in the 45 when they’re fine with a 115 in the 9 or they’ll say that 147 is “too big and slow” in the 9 when they’re on board with a 230 in the 45. When in reality the range of achievable designs allows those to be the most accurate comparisons.
“Charlie: I think the .45 will win. The Japanese don't like it.”
I died at this point lmao
So did the Japanese.
@@thunderring8056 😂😭😂😂
Im glad I wasnt the only one who caught that 😂
I worked Recon and worked a bit with the fifth group.
SF has a famous rule ... " NEVER carry any pistol with less than a 4 in it."
Makes you wonder why they feel that way. 🤔
Maybe back in the 80’s and early 90’s yeah? Sure ain’t the rule today 😂
@Mango10449 well, I was in Vietnam in the early seventies so.. there you go. I trained on my 45, I used my 45, I still have my 45 I still shoot my 45, and I still love my 45, but.. that being said.. a lot of these modern guns are far better, lighter, ample ammo ect. But I still stick with my old 1911, it's what I know.
@@edthornton132 hell yeah man. Back then ammo was a lot different. So much work has been out into the 9mm to get it up to par with the 45 auto over the years. That certainly doesn’t diminish the 45 any.
Charlie “I think the .45 is going to win”.
Garand Thumb: “If history is a pretty good indicatior*”
Charlie: (as the camera pans away.) “Well the Japanese don’t like it…”
That was one of the best comments of the video and it it gets totally glossed past lol.
Time stamp anyone?
@@tbrowniscool 5:27 :)
You mean fantasy. 1911s were carried primarily by the military and almost never by law enforcement. Pistols are irrelevent to a military. It could usually have been basically anything in that holster. They won't be used anyway.
Germans weren't happy with it either..
@@brianjefferson7178 pistols have no effect on a war.
As a wise man once said, "9mm kills the body, but .45ACP kills the soul. can't let them come back as a lich."
And 50 ae blows a hole
Back in 1979 before 9mm was popular in the U.S. I opted for a 9mm Browning Hi-Power over a .45 1911 as my first pistol figuring I would be able too shoot more accurately with the 9mm. That proved to be true when I competed in a IPSC competitions where I wasn’t ever the fastest but didn’t get any penalty points for killing hostage shield targets.
Brought my hi-power in 1975 while stationed in Germany. Just did a rebuild from Spring Solutions. Still going strong!
Sounds like complete and utter BS. .45's tend to win Bullseye competitions more than any other caliber due to their flatter trajectories from their heavier loads.
I have a Hi Power and a 1911. I love them both.
I am 77 . I have been shooting since I was 5. As I get older, the weight of the firearm and recoil of the round are playing a very important part. So I now carry either a Ruger .380 or a S&W model 640 with modern hollow point rounds.
I know absolutely nothing about guns, ammo, gear, etc. I hope to gain alot of knowledge from this channel. Thank you for not talking down on people. Hated that mindset "I know more than you so your useless." Looking forward to watching more of your videos.
You'll like Paul Harrells channel a lot too
It has already been said but I want to reinforce, if you want to learn a lot about firearms, Paul Harrell is a fantastic presenter.
@@burnednegatives so cringe
Just look at the size of these holes! Something scientific is happening.
This is awesome!!! Hope you are having a good time, welcome to the community.
I love the complete confusion on Garand's face when Charlie says something random
Glad you told people that it comes down to training. I train constantly and I love my 9mm's and my 45's. I tend to lean to my 9's but still love my 45's, but carry 99% 9m's
Exactly,
Personal preferences I suppose. They’ll all kill you. This video basically like a cock sz comparison. Some women chose bigger while others chose smaller. In the end the results are the same.
The EDC pistols in 9mm are smaller and easier to conceal with low print and have good penetration. The fps velocity is as fast or faster than a .45. Good enough for me.
9mm the most popular, easiest to find, and with PCC becoming popular you can have 1 type ammo for pistol and rifle. Most PCC also take pistol mags too. A 9mm coming out of a 16 inch barrel has the same force as a .357 magnum.
@@bradleysmith9431 A 6-8 inch barrel will get well into 357 power. It doesn't take much barrel will pistol powder.
17:41 you can see the fully expanded .45 flying up and out the back.
Yeah!!! It hit the hook on the strap and it flung it up. Crazy!!!
".45 has less penetration than 9mm", shows how much that matters if the bullet doesn't hit bone or any other solid material
.45's biggest advantage is the ability to use full power ammunition with a silencer and remain sub sonic. Other than that I love the 9mm and own both.
Usually 9mm 147gr are subsonic as well
Hear here!
@@budderybuns1859 If I was going to pick a sub sonic pistol round I would prefer a 230 gr 45 loading over a 147 gr 9mm..... What makes 9mm special is its velocity.
"Dudes who support gun control have wives that have boyfriends" Fucking Amazing, and most likely true.
I died at this
@@John98512
Someone's gotta be the asshole that ruins the joke.....guess today is your day
@@John98512 shut up
@@John98512 because it's disgusting
@@John98512 you have a bf that you put it in his hole? Sick
Like you said.
Training.
End of story and debate.
I prefer the 9 for mag size and speed. But the 45acp has its value for more experienced shooters. Respect for both. Thank you for the demo.
Honestly it’s more up to the shooter and what they are accustomed to.
Training and practice are definitely key.
I remember reading a paper on the effects of bullets by a doctor who did a bajillion autopsies. After going through the gory details, it was pretty clear that the difference between handgun rounds wasn't much, and shot placement was key. It wasn't until you reached rifle rounds when you saw total devastation of the body without the need to be very accurate.
Border show the mexicans shot this guy 4 times all torso shots before made it to american side. Looked like m16. The guy survived. Read one paper of many that the 556 was meant to have survivors to interrogate. Thought provoking at least
Someone did a study on police-related shootings. On average, 24% of people who get shot by a 9mm will die. 27% of people who get shot by a .45 ACP will die.
For rifles and shotguns it was >80%
Rifle rounds travel so fast the body can't absorb the impact , so there's tremendous shock to the body.
It depends on what type of ammo you’re using In each caliber.
You wouldn't happen to have a link or remember the name of the paper? Sounds like some good reading
Like a wise man once said: "9mm kills the body, 45asp kills the soul!"
"Gotta make sure they don't come back as a lich"
Fellow men of culture
A Chicago ER doc, several decades ago, said he'd patch up 9mm wounds and bad guys would go home to recover. When he got .45 wounds in bad guys he'd send them to the morque.
@@bseidem5112 Several decades before the technology of the 9mm was even growing til it became a solid self defense round. US army uses 9mm FBI uses 9mm a lot of police departments use 9mm. I'm not hating i carry a Glock 21 45acp as of now and i've carried 10mm, 9mm, etc in the past. 9mm isn't something you want to get shot with especially, with modern day self defense rounds. If you watch the whole video instead of dick ride .45 there isnt much difference clearly they're both great. I love both rounds and others like .40 short and weak and the almighty 10mm. Any of them will do the job. A 22lr kills.
@@SoWavvyy r/whoosh
All jokes aside, this is quite a macabre demonstration on how effective a “bullet” is. Bravo GT, bravo
Edit: I run Buffalo bore ammo in my Taurus public defender. I have never felt inadequate in any way shape or form. That there is a stout round for m e n
Hope you don’t say just as gud.
The Taurus should make you feel that way
The 9mm has come a long way since it’s inception. Regardless, I’d hate to be shot with either round! Bad day either way.
Here's the thing: a couple decades ago, I would have agreed that 9mm was an underpowered round. However, over the last 15-20 years, ammo manufacturers have made a lot of improvements to the ballistics of the 9mm round.
Excellent observation. A lot of shooters today were not around back when the 9mm loads available to American shooters truly sucked, so they don't understand why, back then, there was a preference for the .45 ACP. They both sucked, but the .45 sucked less, because it was not as velocity dependent as the 9mm, and American makers refused to load the 9mm to its true potential. Most of the 9mm that actually worked at the time was restricted, police-only stuff which you often couldn't get or performed erratically. I saw this begin to change starting around the year 2000, and by 2005 we had some pretty good 9mm loads available. Standardized testing helped us define how good ammo performed so everyone could make it. Nowadays, pretty much everything works in duty calibers unless it's made by weirdos, so it's less of an issue.
Three words: Fluid transfer monolithic.
@Grim Reaper 666 Not really. You can't get more capacity with the .45. I'll take the extra capacity any day. The .45 had it's day and it's day is gone.
tell that to the guy that took 9 9mm rounds and was still up walking around
Its still underpowered
Dr. GT with the best trick shot of the year; shooting through a torso, missing the ribs, and hitting the steel plate that was approximately 10 meters away. John Moses Browning and Captain America both nod in approval.
I love the name Dr. GT
Bravo sir.
17:25 goes to show that +p+ and +p rounds can and will keep going through said target so in a shooting situation always keep in mind who's behind your target no need for a civilian casualty when it can be avoided
Hence 45. Big and slowER. And it can be sped up. And my mould works across a multitude of different rounds. .451 to .458 paper patch.
Lol you should be worried far more about just missing your target as opposed to the one in a million chance of a pass through hitting someone else
Answer 40 S&W the round they have trying to throw dirt on since 1991 . You can find the 135 grain loads up to 1400 fps and a 200 grain bullet at 900 fps. This surpasses the 357 125 grain load that was considered the ultimate one shot stop with more weight and and a bigger bullet diameter. The 9mm is a good round which has ended alot of dreams and it is the round in SMGs. And they try to claim MODERN bullets make it better than larger rounds. I remember the pre XTP Hornady 115 grain that Me and many of my friends carried in High powers. It was reliable and accurate , I think it expanded better than the XTP.
Answer : whatever you're most comfortable carrying and shooting
Agree.. in a 10 rd mag capacity limit state, the 9mm capacity advantage is moot. 10+1 in 40 or 7+1 in 45 do me just fine!
"It'll blow the lung right out of a body." - Some Former Vice President
That same guy told everyone to buy a shotgun and fire two shots in the air to scare off the bad guys.....
😆
@@LSwick-ss6nm 😆
@@LSwick-ss6nm it also helps get rid of annoying neighbors 🤣
@@kyle3465 🤣👍👍
"Dudes who support gun control, have wives who have boyfriends"
- Charlie
Not just a medical squire, a poet too.
More like a thought leader of our time. Sage words
I don't know an incel who isn't some 2A don't tread on me chad.
@@runtoth3abyss uh oh Commie angry 😂
@@savagedeluxe3997 needing a weebo pillow for your sex life while pretending guns make you manly surely is the path to getting women
@@savagedeluxe3997 im commie and I love guns😤 only radical-liberals college students with green hair dont like them
"The Japanese don't like it."
BRUH 🤣🤣🤣🤣