I am a retired Deputy Sheriff. My first issued weapon was a Colt Police Positive 38 special. I have been through the transitions to 9mm, 45acp, 40cal, then back to 9mm. I carried the 40cal longer than any other caliber and unlike most cops, I ran drills every weekend with a co-worker without fail. That being said, I have developed an attachment to my old Glock 23 that is hard for me to break. I can shoot that gun faster and more accurately than any other pistol I own. That skill however falls entirely on the amount of practice I have had with that particular weapon. Training and practice is critical no matter the caliber. Great video and congrats on the camera. That is a substantial investment and should add to the quality of your videos!
@@skyhopThe 23 is less snappy because of reduced reciprocating slide mass & less of a mechanical disadvantage to overcome due to the shorter barrel compared to the Glock 22.
My experience is very similar to yours, having retired after 27 1/2 years-also retiring as a deputy sheriff. I retired in 2015 and realized I had to start buying my own ammo!!! Gasp!!! Since I had to pay the bill, I switched back to 9mm because it was NEVER a bad round-not even the Winchester Silvertip the FBI blamed in 1986. Since I was hanging calibers, I looked at guns other than Glock, which I'd carried for decades. I discovered Sig P320 and have been a Sig convert ever since. The X-Macro is a stellar combination of concealment and capacity and is my "go to" carry gun.
@@Edizzle15 Those who followed him and his love and insight in his video all felt like we knew him, and him us. Nevertheless, he was an incredible man, RIP.
I will watch a Paul video until I die. So much shared wisdom and as humble as he was, left his mark on a lot of people. He will be missed, but not forgotten.
I was involved in a self-defense scenario roughly 11 years ago. Glock 22 .40 SW golden saber round. It achieved a one-shot stop. I know first hand that .40 is an extremely effective round.
You're supposed to be able to defend yourself, no matter your wrists condition. There are a lot of agencies in the world. Which one switched to 10mm? Considering a bigger but "soft" round made sense. Even if the projet was finally a failure.
Part of the problem with recoil is specific to Glock, at least the older generations. When they made the .40 versions of their guns, they didn't change the recoil spring, they kept the same 17 pound spring from the 9mm versions when the .40 should have a 21 pound spring or better. I put a stiffer spring, and swapped to a steel guide rod in my gen 3 Glock 23 years ago and it made a world of difference.
The new Glock 23,27,22 Gen 5’s are excellent! They come with 20lb recoil springs now and heavier slides. Approximately 3oz heavier than previous Gen’s.
The recoil spring is super important with 40. I carry 380, 9, and 40 but I stopped carrying 40 for a while because follow up shots were less consistent. That's when I started looking and found an aftermarket recoil kit. It totally changed the way my Beretta 96 shoots. Now I typically carry the 40 when hiking or camping in the forest or during winter when everyone is wearing heavy jackets.
@@Barbent1317 Just be careful not to overweight the spring. It does change recoil characteristics, and if you aren't paying attention to shooting fundamentals, it can cause issues with the weapon going back into battery with older generations(don't limp wrist). Be mindful of the average velocity of your particular ammo choice if you go really heavy on the spring, higher is better. This only applies to older generations, at least 3 and older as the problem was mostly alleviated on newer gens with Glock's switch to recoil pistons on all their pistols versus a standard rod+spring.
The .40 is a fine round. The main reasons that law enforcement agencies have changed to 9mm is: 1. Modern ballistics advances, 2. Cost, cost, cost, 3. Capacity, 4. Ease of use for those officers who only shoot once a year.
I preferred the 165gr critical defense rounds. The 40 outperformed the 9 in the same round. Either one is a good self defense round, it's just personal preference and cost good 40 defense rounds tend to be more costly than 9
I never understood the “advances in bullet technology” argument. That would apply to larger calibers as well. They don’t just develop advances for 9mm.
That argument is made because larger/more powerful rounds were noticeably more effective in the past. Newer bullet technology helped every round, but it closed the gap that smaller cartridges suffered from. This is shown in this video too.
9mm technology has advanced a little more than other calibers because it it the most popular caliber in the world. Every country uses 9mm, so it stands to reason that projectile development would favor the 9mm.
I think you are talking about the teaching of the legend Jeff Cooper, Clint being just one of his students, that says, all pistol calibers are weak ( you could say "Suck" here), we don't carry them because they are powerful, we carry them because they are portable, and concealable. At least that is what I think you are thinking of. Semper Fi, MAK
Even if the foe-tee came first, the 9mm would still have a huuuuge following advocating for its increased capacity and quicker, more accurate follow-up shots. Would probably end up dethroning the 40 regardless.
I think the point is that new 9mm is similar to old 40, which the feds chose as a benchmark; new 40 is likely better than new 9mm sure, but you don’t need the extra recoil if you are okay with old .40 performance (as you can now get that old .40 performance with new 9mm, which has higher capacity and less recoil)
I can definitively say why most law enforcement agencies moved away from the .40 S&W and it isn't about the terminal ballistics. I've been a cop for 30 years, an LEO weapons instructor for 23 years and my agency's armorer for the same amount of time. I've had a lot of conversations with other agency instructors. The .40 S&W is a good cartridge with some draw-backs. It's biggest draw-back is the difficulty in training new shooters, which the vast majority of cops are. Most cops are NOT gun people. They didn't get into the job because of an interest in firearms. Most officers, in my experience and the instructors I've spoken with, are barely interested in guns at all outside of their need to carry one for the work. The recoil induces a flinch in those officers that becomes hard to overcome without an internal motivation to cure. When you consider that a handgun's terminal performance is not that different across calibers in the grand scheme of things according to FBI ballistics data, it comes down to economy. The 9mm is more plentiful, less expensive, easier to stock, and easier to train with. That's it. The .40 S&W is a good round, it just isn't so much better to justify the downsides. The 10mm (the best millimeter) is better than most common calibers. It's more expensive, less plentiful, harder to find, harder to train with, harder on weapon longevity (except for the Glock platform), and difficult to fit to an average size "bitch mitten". When an agency hits a certain size, it has to standardize. The 9mm wins in every category after that.4
I shoot 165 gr .40 from my g23 and s&w m&p .40 2.0. Between 165gr and 180gr ammo which one will wear out my gun faster? With Trump in the wh ammo will be cheap next 4 years, gona buy me a few cases of ammo.
From my understanding it's also because agencies started hiring more women. Many of them couldn't handle the recoil. But 9mm is cheaper to train with so economics plays a big part when it comes to department budgets.
Thank's for your comment. I live in rural Alaska where the 10mm is the most common caliber for officers. The 9mm or 40 cal is just not enough for moose or bear. Even the 357 is marginal. I carry a Glock G40 in 10mm with a 870 shotgun with slugs for backup. Where I live there are more coastal brown bears than people.
I don’t understand people who get into a line of work where your life and others will likely depend on your proficiency with gun, yet you show no interest in gun.
I carry a 40 with solids for black bear while hiking in Michigan along with bear spray. it really boils down to shot placement. spend time with the load that is going to protect you at the range so you are used to the snap of recoil .
@@williambowers2130 I have, guiding a friend's dad while hunting in Utah. Did the job when charged from 10 yards. Fortunate to have drawn my weapon before seeing it.
As someone who lives in a state with capacity restrictions, the reduction in capacity from 9mm to .40 is not a consideration. .40 does have more recoil but it's not significantly worse so I might as well have a bit more power. That being said, whether I carry a .380, 9mm or .40 really depends on what I'm wearing and what I can comfortably conceal on any given day.
@@JonCampo91just get stronger forearms and grip and you wouldn’t have to worry about that lol. At the end of the day it all comes down to shot placement
When I was shopping for my first EDC pistol, I couldn't afford a G17 or G19, I had just started my professional career. I did however find a police trade-in G22 with steel night sights and 3 magazines. I couldn't find a police trade-in 9mm. Shipped to the dealer, and background check included I walked out paying $275 for my G22. At that time ammo for the 40 was about the same as 9mm. Still carry that g22 to this day.
I picked up a G23 Police trade-in not too long ago for $300 & this gun was so mint expected holster wear but the one I got wasn't even shot still had the factory glock grease which it also came with glock night sights extra score but I turned it into a Glock 32 with a 357sig lone wolf barrel & I love it!
I love .40 S&W and always will, it has been my daily carry since I was old enough to buy a handgun (I'm currently 39) I don't not like the 9mm either and don't have anything negative to say about it. I believe they are both excellent rounds to carry. My #1 reason I've stayed with the .40 as my main carry is back in 2008 was the first ammo shortage that I can remember and in my neck of the woods (might have been different in other areas) the .40 ammo was not as scarce as the 9mm due to the fact that more people do carry 9mm. And this has also been the case in more recent shortages near me. But .40 is what I have and is what I've used and trained with for years. Hope everyone on here has a great day and God Bless. Love the channel and another great video. Keep up good work guys!
Hornady Critical Duty and Critical Defense in the 165 grain are excellent, and much better than the much slower lower energy 180 grain. That's what he should have done this test with. The Critical Duty round has better barrier penetration than the Critical Defense.
I carried on SWAT, ran a range and bought 357 Sig on a department level, Speer Gold Dot, and what drove me away from 357 was the price and availability. We bought off of a state contract and it was still horrendous. Not to mention our average scores went down dramatically. Sure, the good shooters stayed the same but the average and lower shooters struggled handling recoil. Would I like to have a carbine in 357, hell yeah but it wasn’t about me, it was about helping my department be more effective.
As someone who has shot 40 for years, I hated shooting it out of a Glock, M&p handles 40 better, has alittle less snap to it but I agree with him, use what you’re proficient with
@@thenoobreturnz8968 I shot my buddies m2.0 and I swear to me it felt more jumpy after I shot my gen5 g22. I had a m2.0 myself but I got rid of it in 40.
40SW hate is so absurd. Yeah, it's less than 10mm, but energy says it's still more powerful than 9mm and 45acp because it's both weight and velocity. Good caliber size too. The only shortcoming is it is more recoil because there's no free lunch. And ammo prices are insane right now and $20 a box is horrible compared to $13 a box. Overall there's absolutely no issue with 40sw, it's more powerful, makes a bigger hole, and only at a cost of -2 rounds in a magazine on average, but you just have to accept the downsides too, including cost of training and recoil requiring more training.
Honestly I was always under the impression that youtube was a major factor in it's decline. Watching someone mag dump a 40 is far less exciting than a 9mm. The bang it makes is fairly comparable through a mic and it shoots slower. The power of the round isn't really conveyed through video. Especially in the last few years where most youtubers have adopted the whole flashy high speed low drag spec ops larp style. Honestly it's a big part of the reason I always preferred demo over gt.
Honest Words Julian. Real SD round begin with a "4" and shoot 200g projectiles. 40 is JUST shy of this but too darn close ta argue. 40 works I know, that it works.
The other shortcoming rarly talked about is 40. Wear and tear on guns and barrels. The excessive pressures of the 40. Wear threw guns quickly. If you shot alot that not gonna be a gun you can pass down to grandkids. At least not the Og slide and barrel.
What I like about the late Paul Harrell's channel was the ammo testing, brand against brand, not caliber against caliber. Because, it depends. He had 10mm and 40, and for Federal, there was no difference. Or "not enough of a difference to make a difference". The .40 remains a good bridge between 9 and 45.
As a Chicago native this is facts. 40S&W is still a prevalent round in the hood. A snubbie .38 or .357 in shiny stainless (we refer to them as chrome) or a semiautomatic in 40S&W is hood royalty. I own both, of course. What you carry can gain you a lot of respect in the hood.
@AudibleVisibIe as a clarification (I didn't want my post to be too long), I didn't mean hood sh*t respect. I meant that those guns deter criminals from doing crime depending on what it is or looks like. I've had to pull my .40 in self-defense. The biker gang r@ci$t stopped and complied fast when he saw the 40 caliber hole. Oh, and btw I'm 6'4" 200 lbs, and he was bigger than I am. Also, there were multiple attackers with knives. So please don't think that my choice of words classifies me as a certain preconceived idea.
I dumped off all my 40 whether that was smart or not, but I'll share why I got it in the first place. During COVID, all the 9, 45, etc. was gone from store shelves and I hadn't been into the tactical side of firearms long enough to have a stash built up. All my local shop had on a regular basis was 40. All gun prices were highly inflated, but guns in 40 were still pretty cheap. I bought a USP Compact 40 for I want to say $550 and started stocking up on ammo. The gun was fairly snappy, but I could put the rounds on target. Later I picked up a full size USP 40 that was a trade-in LEO gun and it was insanely smooth. HK did magic on the USP to tame the recoil and you got the same magazine capacity as the 9mm, because the gun was designed around 40. It's easily the best single handgun to pick up if you wanted a 40. I probably should've kept it just to have a backup option / additional caliber if I ever needed it. A friend picked one up recently and got a 10mm barrel with it. If you swap the recoil spring and barrel, you have a USP in 10mm. Pretty insane.
My story sounds exactly like yours. Got into the .40 due to limited supply around Covid. Was introduced to H&K. Did some reading all about H&K. Bought 2 pistols one in .40 and the other in 9.
My all time favorite pistol was also an HK USP .40 loved that pistol. Unfortunately, it got stolen and someone got shot in the stomach at a 4th of July event with it. Law eventually found it at the bottom of a local lake. As the kids would say, "wild".....
*FINALLY!!!* The .40 s&w is my favorite and ideal semi-auto cartridge caliber, especially for full-size semi-auto handguns, but 180gr was always too heavy for the .40 s&w, with the exception of hard cast bullets, between 135gr minimum and 165gr maximum parameters is best, with 155gr/150gr bullet weight being ideal! In my humble opinion!
My duty gun was an H&K 40 USP Compact. Still my personal carry gun to this day. My agency switched to the Glock 19 9mm. I keep thinking about switching my EDC to 9mm. But just can't get comfortable with it. .40 S&W is a great round. A little kick. But not a big deal if you train with it.
I used to have a USP in .40, I have no idea how you got used to that. That upper slide was one big chunky piece of metal slinging back after each shot, I hated it. Compared it to my Walther PDP. No comparison, at all. Sold the USP .40 right after.
…with unsupported chambers that made them go kaboom. Meanwhile, the M&P was developed to take the extra pressure and oomph from the .40 from the start.
It was actually the worst part. Glock cramming the .40 into a 9mm platform is what created all the bad reputation for both Glock and the .40 as a snappy, parts breaking over pressured round. .40 is a pussycat in a USP or m&p, which were designed around .40 from the ground up.
@@AEtraneI have a usp compact 40 cal. The recoil is a lot lower than other 40 cal guns and after 2 19:54 decades it still functions flawlessly. Awesome gun
Remember kids if your gonna be running any kind of ammo use a aftermarket barrel save yourself from a potential blow up remember squib loads exist so be mindful
Pardon me if this was said already: The comparative cartridge for 124gr 9mm in 40S&W is the 165gr. Both 147gr 9mm and 180gr 40S&W are comparative in the subsonic category. Nice to see someone visiting 40 😄
Technically, there are 135gr loadings available for .40 to compare to the 124gr 9mm, but they are astounding in power numbers(600 ft lbs). There are also 150 and 155 gr loadings for .40 to compare to(once again they kinda kick 9mm ass tho, in that 500-600 ft lb range). 9mm doesn't really have a comparative weight I think in that 180gr-200gr range. .40 is some seriously mean shit nowadays...I EDC one for a reason, hell I hog hunt with it, it's THAT good lol..Basically if you give the .40 the same weight ranges as 9mm, it absolutely poops on 9mm lol I carry the 135 gr stuff in my CCW g23...
I said pretty much the same thing all though I've gotten my the best overall performance out of 168gr. I don't know why all these RUclipsrs keep using 180 in these "side by sides" in less they are just trying to give an edge to the 9. Hell 150 is the most common off the self ammo and many "defensive" rounds are made with 158gr. which do work really well out of my pistol. The 168 is just a hair better down range out of my PCC so I keep them in my sidearm as well since they use the same mags.
Me too. I bought a Lone wolf 9mm conversion barrel and now have to guns in one. They also sell a 357 sig conversion barrel that will give you 3 guns in one!
@@Bromar_Tillo I had a tlr-7 on the 22 and it shot flatter then a 92SF I was actually impressed lol it definitely helped form my hand positions on pistols since I was freshly 21 at the time haha
Paul's video was a lot more useful with his signature "meat target" showing more consistent performance from the 40 S&W when taking non-ideal shots, not straight on, square shots with a ballistic dummy.
The BS reason they took our 40 away, they said ordering 10,000 rounds of 40 ammo would be 10 to 11 months out. They could receive a million rounds of 9 mm in 2 weeks.
I bought a .40 s&w for the ammo crisis. Even during the worst ammo droughts, I can almost always find both defensive, and target ammo for it. It also tends to run as cheap if not cheaper than 9mm in my experience. Sure there's a little more recoil, and a few less rounds. However if the choice is between carrying a few less rounds, and not being able to train and maintain my skill levels, I'm gonna carry less ammo and keep training.
Ammo manufactures have noticed this trend as well. They stated that they will be reducing production of less popular rounds in order to increase production of what is in demand. I still suspect it will be easier to find. But not like it was and tbh it will probably continuously get harder to find as it looses popularity.
@@lbwar15 You speak about manufacturers as if they're a monolith, in reality, others will take advantage of the decisions those given manufacturers make and fill that void. This is basic economics.
I remember going to Walmart getting win 165gr 200 round range pack for like $50. Before they banned pistol ammo it was $65. 45acp is crazy expensive compared to 9mm. Supply and demand I guess.
Really good video. I have always been a fan of the 40. I have carried it on duty for years. Recently my department switched to 9mm. I have to admit, the 9mm is more enjoyable to shoot. However, at the academy, the government did a ballistic test between multiple rounds. They shot at gel torsos placed behind car doors, windshields, cinder blocks, interior house doors, and chain link fences. I wish you did a similar test. I'm curious to see how the G9 would perform. The government video showed the .40 performed much better than the 9mm if you had to shoot through an object. It was enough of a difference, everyone in the class was asking why carry a 9mm on duty. With that being said, I carry a 9mm for my conceal carry. I have a G22. I can throw in a conversion barrel and turn it into a 9mm. Also, remember the ammo shortage of 2020. Couldn't find 9mm, but I could find .40
I carry the child of the two, 357 sig. 40 shell necked down to 9mm, and it definitely hits harder than 9 or 40. It also has a crazy fireball, as its moving at 1420fps, though it can go faster.
When tested side by side in other videos, inexperienced shooters were unable to tell which was .40S&W and which was 9mm. Seems like people are afraid of the .40S&W because so many people repeat the whole "it's snappier than the 9mm" which scares new shooters. In reality they won't be able to tell the difference between the two and get freaked out over nothing. Awesome video, although I'd say 165 grain .40S&W is far more commonly used. I'd be curious to see how it compares to the 180.
@brucestarr4438 I never got into .357 Sig because I assumed it would never last but it's still here and a fantastic caliber. I wish I had gotten one years ago. I'm just too vested in other calibers to do it now. I've not shot one but I don't doubt that it's a snappy dog.
The 40S&W was designed from the start as a Duty Round for Law Enforcement and had to meet numerous Barrier test criteria which is quite different from what a Civilian would encounter. Federal has the FBI barrier test results for HST and Speer Gold Dot on their Law Enforcement Aummunition website. Current FBI Agents are issued Hornady Critical Duty in a 9mm +P loading as it comes closer to the 40S&W in performance. Would of liked to see how it performed. I personally carry a medium frame pistol in 40S&W loaded with Hornady Critical Defense 165 gr. as I feel it meets my need for a Self Defense round.
Great topic thanks for testing the 40 S&W. The 40 S&W has 25% more momentum then a 9mm. If you shoot steel targets you'll see the 40 S&W swing that steel much more. Greater expansion, more kinetic energy, more momentum. Since I'm not laying down suppressive fire it's okay to have fewer in the magazine. BTW all of the G9 bullets get their damage due to tumbling not the flutes. Your high speed camera shows all of them tumbling which is nondeterministic performance.
My first pistol was an S&W M&P Performance Center .40cal. It has a ported barrel, which helps keep it on target and shoot just like a non ported 9mm. Very sweet gun for concealed carry.
My first "real" handgun was a 40sw. I'm 54yrs old now and it remains my favorite round for self defense but I do train and carry 9mm more often due to ammo cost. The 40sw may not be in the limelight anymore but it's still capable of doing g what it was designed to do. Great video that a lot of people can relate to.
I'm an Australian LEO, and my agency issues the Smith and Wesson M&P in 40S&W as our standard duty carry. I've never found it to be particularly hard to shoot, but I am a long time shooter outside of work. That said, a few years back when on holdiay in the USA I visited a range and took a Glock in 9mm for a spin. I found it was very noticeably easier to shoot than the gun Im issued at work. Especially when it came to follow up shots, I was able to crank accurate follow ups out much faster.
The reason I choose .40 S&W over 9mm is from police shootings footage. I have done a lot of research on shootings, seen a lot of videos. I research into the time frame of the shootings and the gun used by each department at the time. At the end of the day, the most common outcome of the 9mm in law enforcement settings is about 8 rounds landed before bad guy goes down and he then moans a lot. The most common .40 S&W outcome is 2 shots landed, guy hits the ground hard and screams like he's on fire. All the ballistics testing in the world cannot quantify what is going on and what the difference is, but I know there's something going on differently with the .40 S&W.
9mm energy + 32 ACP energy = 40 energy. THE 40 is simply a higher tier round especially in 155-165 grain loads which were not represented in the video. The 180 gr 40 has the least performance of all 40 loads and it’s still outpaced the 9 mm in this video. The 40 in 155-165 grain would show a much more significant advantage.
Used to live in a restricted state. If I could only have 10 rounds, I wanted something with a little more power behind it. An M&P40C gen 1 is easy to conceal, has 10 rounds on tap, and you could pick up .357 sig and 9mm barrels to swap out. I also carried one for work and shot competition with a 40. Plus, it’s legal for deer hunting in several states. I’ll always have a soft spot for the .40 S&W
Just curious, why do competitive shooting with a .40? It objectively has more recoil, and no advantages, since ballistic performance is moot for competition. Why not a 9mm? It has less recoil and more mag capacity, and imo hitting longer distances is better with 9 as well.
I do carry a .40, but also a 9mm, and a .45, as well as a .357, though the last one doesn't get a lot of carry time for practicality reasons in an urban environment. What I carry depends a lot on the weather, what other folks might be wearing, and what I think I'll need more of; capacity vs immediate ballistic power. I prefer things like the heavier .40 for cooler weather if I'm potentially attacked by somebody wearing heavier/more layers, but 9mm for warmer weather.
As a Brit with extremely limited experience with real fire-arms, I have shot both a 9mm and .40 S&W. The .40 S&W recoil felt more like a 'push' (stronger but slower) whereas the 9mm felt more like a 'slap' (less overall force but delivered more immediately). Given my lack of experience, I found the .40 S&W easier to predict / stabilise than the 9mm.
That often has more to do with the firearm than the round, in my experience. But the overall trend you experienced is accurate as well. 9mm guns tend to have lighter components, which make it snappier. That all being said, I'm not an expert either, so maybe there is something more to the rounds themselves that I'm not aware of. I've fired both from a variety of platforms, but I've never looked into what kinds of powder loads each round uses, and how much of a difference there might be in burn rate. Might be fun to look up, later....
I heard you can buy a flower wrist band that makes your wrists 40% stronger allowing you to shoot the 40.. but the side effect is your voice will get deeper and you’ll grow a mustache…
45 ACP is my favorite handgun round, but 40 S&W is a great round if you want something that can expand to a large size and maintain its momentum in organic material. Essentially, if you’re having to shoot through clothing and through an arm, the 40 S&W will be better at reaching vitals than 9mm.
Unfortunately those 155gr .40s at 1300fps were just plain hell on up-calibered 9mm handguns not designed for it. That’s what killed the USBP Beretta 96D Brigadiers. Even after switching to HK USPcs and P2000s designed for .40 they still ended up reducing the loads and increasing bullet weights.
@kmrtnsn I'm talking standard loads of 155-165 grain. Nothing special or plus P about them. The standard amount of powder will push the bullets to good 9mm style velocities due to the weight. If you do the math, .40 is ballistically superior by far to 9mm. However, this heavily depends on the speed of the projectile. So if you get 155 or 165 grain bullets to hit 1100 or 1200 fps, they will automatically be ballistically superior to all 9mm projectiles. To put this in perspective, a 5.56 is ballistically superior to a .45acp because of the speed difference alone. Speed is usually the main factor in a bullets performance, and that's why we see 9mm do well in it's performance because of the standard 1100-1200fps it tends to get which affects lethality on targets. However, having a .45acp deliver the same velocity of 5.56 would be so extreme that it would make 5.56 look like the .22 it is. It's that same factor but in this case it's the .40 vs the 9mm where diameter and bullet weight are different with the .40 being superior in both. So the only thing needed would be the speed in the .40. which it has if you get 155 or 165 grain loads.
155 is suboptimal penetration!! Unless its solid copper fluted bullets stick with 165gr or heavier. 180gr and 980-1000fps is still a good performer but 165gr has more margin of safety with bullet setback(never rechamber any 40 round more then once) as well as better velocity then 180gr. 165gr is still barely minimum penetration with traditional hollowpoints hence why so,e may argue 180 is better. I like both 165 and 180.
And windshields…..go thru like nothing there….I’ve shot hundreds of rounds during training thru windshields with the .40……it was eye opening in a good way
You're clueless. Police use 9mm rounds that do go through car doors and glass just fine and their goal is that they still act like hollow points when they hit their target. They don't want over penetration. A 9 will go through multiple car doors, even a hp.
I EDC'd an H&k USP in 40 S&W, loved it, shot it weekly and never had a problem staying on target double or triple tapping. I made a hard decision to lock it away and consolidate my ammunition... 9mm (Glock 17) for EDC, 45 cal (Glock 21) for tyranny.
Just a note, there are some very good looking 165 grain loads now available for the 40. I have a 40 on order. there are several reasons that I chose it over the me too caliber. I figured that if I was going to put up with the high pressure blast I might as well get a substantial size bullet as well. In cases where the HP fails to expand (long range or damage to the bullet from striking a cell phone for example) I figure a 40 caliber hole beats a 36 caliber hole. 15 rounds of 40 is still a step down in recoil and up in capacity from my 44 magnum. I am not quite ready to concede to my advancing age and arthritis. When that time comes we'll bring in the 32s. 😊😇
This reply wins on the me too reference. Lots of logic as well. Good news, grip strength is something that you can train & improve through almost all of your life as a man.
I've seen some demonstrations in-person and online where the .40S&W will perform better against light cover over 9mm, likely due to its greater mass. I carry a 9mm. However, I do think you are getting a little more round per round with 40's greater mass. If you're a poor young man, a police trade-in Glock 22/23 or Gen 1 S&W M&P in .40 at $300 (sometimes less) is a great deal if you're balling on a budget.
Protip, if you dont like the heavier weight bullets, if you're after that lighter weight stuff, .40 will scoot a 135 gr bullet at 1400+ fps netting you almost 600 ft lbs lol
155, 165 in the .40 is a more realistic comparison. Most agencies use these weights as do most people. The.40/.357 sig are already loaded to max pressure so there is no commercially available “+p.
@@lebthot5787 you are correct but what I said is true, there are no +P loads. The loads that are faster are loaded to full capacity. The loads that are slower are loaded down. It would be more accurate to say there are proper loads (the faster loads of which we speak) and low P loads (the slower rounds of which we speak).
@@lebthot5787it is true, you have “standard” loads which is what’s usually put in your hollow point and SD rounds and then there’s the “training” loads which are what’s put in your FMJ rounds, a few grams less of powder. There is no +P designation like in 9mm and 45. Buffalo bore is the only company that has a round they say is +P and that’s because it’s loaded so hot that it will blow a Glock or any other non fully supported barrel apart and they tell you it can only be used in platforms with a fully supported barrel and even then it can cause major degradation to its components.
Saran wrap/shrink/stretch wrap or similar material (think walmart grocery bags) also works great. Doesnt let your skin breathe. I've used it to great effect. Furnace went out on me several years ago and we had a particularly brutal winter. Wore grocery bags like an inner layer before i put my socks on and wrapped saran wrap (just tight enough to stay on, not super tight) around my torso while wearing a t shirt and legs while wearing long johns.
My first pistol was a usp hk compact in 40 cal two decades ago and it’s still my baby. I have never had a malfunction ever. I put it up so my first born some can have it in 15 years. Oldy but goody
@ it’s doable. It’s kinda thick though. The holster I used was a handmade leather one. But I have seen some new ones because people are putting optics cuts on them now and kinda bringing them back.
@ best part about the hk 40 cal is it’s as shootable as 9 mm. I don’t know what it is about it but mine shoots super flat. My g23&22 both have way more recoil
.40 is a great round. Glock 27, glock 23, hk p2000sk and shield pc are great guns. Use real rounds like double tap and underwood. They are the best middle ground round. The recoil isn’t bad whatsoever
Started my LE career in 1980 with a Smith Mod 10 bull barrel 38 Spec. 1985 Smith Mod 65 357, 1988 Beretta 92F 9mm....8 years later I was able to transition the Dept to the SW 40 in Glock 23. After repeated stress fractures and other component failures with the weapon with my high volume shooters, I transitioned Dept to the 45 cal Glock and it was a good experience. Since I have retired the new Chief reverted to the 9mm Clock 17/19 due to cost and DEI issues. Over all the 40 cal was a very effective round but actually less controllable than the 45 cal. and exerted internal pressures that compromised the pistols at a much higher percentage than was normal,
Granted 9mm ammo has come a long way from the early 2000's, from the perspective of a former police detective, I have interviewed many people after being shot with a 9mm... Number of people available for interview after being shot with 40S&W ...ZERO.
I'm pretty sure that this is more likely to be because 9mm is used in far greater quantities than .40 S&W, meaning the sample size eclipses it and would lead to you interviewing more people who have survived being shot by 9mm lol
No handgun rounds are meant to be one shot stoppers, unless you're talking a .50, but let's be real, who's carrying one of those around. The "stopping power" debate is dumb and irrelevant when 9, .40, and .45 are all roughly the same nowadays in terms of quality and performance. 9mm is generally regarded as the best because it offers the highest capacity alone. TLDR, id rather use a rifle in every circumstance .
One commenter from Brazil, in another video, said when their police used .40 SW Taurus pistols, it took an average of one to two rounds to stop someone. They switched to the nine and it became three to five rounds to stop someone.
I was my department’s firearms instructor and armorer until I retired. We switched from.40 to 9mm because the newer officers had trouble making accurate shots with their issued handguns. Especially those officers who only trained once a year during requals. Training equals proficiency and most people simply don’t want to train so they struggle to maintain proficiency in a very perishable skill. I always looked forward to shooting as much as possible and spend a lot of time training.
@@rickh9396 No, Mike abandoned them when he showed them who he really is. Imagine the lack of integrity it would take to stand next to a man like that as he gives husband and dad advice. Well, maybe you wouldn't have to imagine.
The .40 does better with 165s than the 180gr. Also, the equivalent 9mm load would be 147gr if having to use the 180 in .40. I have larger pistols in .40 and smaller in 9mm.....the smaller 9s still recoil more than the full size 40s. I like to keep the recoil impulse similar between my handguns, so that is why I roll like that.
I'm fairly certain there was a very specific reason that .40 loadings in 165gr, 150gr, and 135gr weren't chosen for this specific test. When comparing any .40 round to a slightly lighter 9mm +P+ round (such as 115gr 9mm vs 135gr .40), the 40S&W will have a tenth or two of an inch more expansion, with a hundred or two FPS more velocity, and do it all with negligible recoil difference over the +P+. It doesn't make a very interesting video, and would likely garner quite a bit of bashing due to the .40's obvious superiority in similar grain weights.
Also check out the Liberty Ammo (made in Texas) The Civil Defense 40 S&W travels at 2000 feet per second and is the most effective .40 cal available. It has more kinetic energy than most 45 ACP defense rounds but weighs less than almost any 9mm. It is also lead-free and California-compliant. Weight: 60gr - Velocity: 2000 FPS - Kinetic Energy: 533 FPE - Accuracy: < 1” @ 25 Meters Rounds: 20 per box - Terminal Effect: 3 ½ “W x 12” D Compared To Other Top Self-Defense Rounds - 34 to 39% less felt recoil - 70 to 95% more velocity - 5 to 23% more kinetic energy - Reduced over-penetration - More stopping power Projectiles function differently than any other self-defense round on the market. We designed the Civil Defense line to eliminate threats with one round. We did this by creating the maximum amount of damage and tissue disruption possible. They do well against barriers, but when the large cavity fills with fluid, the hydraulic pressure builds until the side walls of the projectile explode. With that explosion comes rifle-sized temporary cavities and hydrostatic shock, therefore increasing stopping power by tenfold. Following the explosion, the bullet fragments into a starburst-shaped pattern creating multiple wound channels. This process also benefits in many other areas across the spectrum of things considered when talking about self-defense. Such as reduced over-penetration and lessening the risk of unintended casualties. Having a lighter projectile also leads to less muzzle flips for faster follow-up shots.
During Covid it was next to impossible to get 9mm at any store. So I noticed while there was a still a shortage of 40s&w there was more of it left on the shelves. So I got a M&p 40 and honestly I enjoy it just as much as my 9mms. So I’d say it’s a good alternative if ammo is selling like crazy in your area. Since 40s&w seems to be a less popular round.
2:06 - 40 S&W is a fine round. With that said; the technology in bullet design has gotten so much better that it has narrowed the 40 advantage given the 9mm is less snappy.
Great video Mike and John. Carried the .40 G23 for years and loved it, mostly because I shot USPSA with the .40 S&W PRO and never had an issue taking down the steel because of the power, and yes I trained long and hard to master the recoil and muzzle control (BTW the full frame S&W PRO .40 is heavy enough to reduce the recoil, whereas my G23 has a bit more due to its carry size.) All that said, I have moved to the G43X for my daily carry and love it, definitely much easier recoil/muzzle control. I still use my full frame .40 for competition though as I have gotten so proficient with it over the years. BTW I use the Hornady Critical Defense as my carry ammo.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Follow up shots were very important to the feds when they encountered people who owned more than one dog.
Oh come on now, they need follow up shots for the first dog 😂
Thats why I have 2 cats.
😂
Funniest shit I’ve seen all day😂
@@HoffnerPrecision 🤣I think I woke my wife up that laugh. Now I have to explain 😠 😂
I am a retired Deputy Sheriff. My first issued weapon was a Colt Police Positive 38 special. I have been through the transitions to 9mm, 45acp, 40cal, then back to 9mm. I carried the 40cal longer than any other caliber and unlike most cops, I ran drills every weekend with a co-worker without fail. That being said, I have developed an attachment to my old Glock 23 that is hard for me to break. I can shoot that gun faster and more accurately than any other pistol I own. That skill however falls entirely on the amount of practice I have had with that particular weapon. Training and practice is critical no matter the caliber.
Great video and congrats on the camera. That is a substantial investment and should add to the quality of your videos!
Thanks for sharing your experience!
Do you shoot just as well if not better with a Glock 22?
Or just specifically that Glock 23 just because you trained with it/carried for so long?
@@phlooke I always felt the G23 was less snappy than the G22. Don't ask me why, it does not make any rational sense.
@@skyhopThe 23 is less snappy because of reduced reciprocating slide mass & less of a mechanical disadvantage to overcome due to the shorter barrel compared to the Glock 22.
My experience is very similar to yours, having retired after 27 1/2 years-also retiring as a deputy sheriff. I retired in 2015 and realized I had to start buying my own ammo!!! Gasp!!! Since I had to pay the bill, I switched back to 9mm because it was NEVER a bad round-not even the Winchester Silvertip the FBI blamed in 1986.
Since I was hanging calibers, I looked at guns other than Glock, which I'd carried for decades. I discovered Sig P320 and have been a Sig convert ever since. The X-Macro is a stellar combination of concealment and capacity and is my "go to" carry gun.
Thank you for mentioning Paul Harrell. What an incredible man. I miss him greatly.
You knew him well? Hopefully one day you heal.
@@Edizzle15 Those who followed him and his love and insight in his video all felt like we knew him, and him us. Nevertheless, he was an incredible man, RIP.
Paul was the best gun guy channel going 🫡
" Enough difference to make a difference"? You be the judge.
I will watch a Paul video until I die. So much shared wisdom and as humble as he was, left his mark on a lot of people. He will be missed, but not forgotten.
The best thing about the .40 is that the guns all come with "30% off" labels.
Yeah, you can still pick up like new Glock LE trade-in pistols for cheap.
During the rona .40 was still on the shelf. Even on sale a couple times.
You make it on ammo purchases.
@@patmcdermott8547can attest got mine for $380 total
AIM Surplus is blowing out 22 and 23s for 279
8:00 glad to see Paul is still getting referenced. A wise man who taught many
RIP Paul… an amazing soul gone too soon.
Paul is eternal.
No doubt He was and will ever remain a LEGEND!
I agree and miss him like family!
Paul lives on in all of us!
When everyone was spending $40 on a box of 9mm during the pandemic, I was getting .40S&W for $13.
^ this. Dudes were literally camping out to buy 1 box of 9 for 4x the price. 40 was on shelves with no increase and no line.
This is what made me get a .40 since 9mm was unattainium.
40 used to be cheaper than 10. Now it's the same price. 10 dropped and 40 went up, 40 only used to be about $2 a box more expensive than nine.
I was involved in a self-defense scenario roughly 11 years ago. Glock 22 .40 SW golden saber round. It achieved a one-shot stop. I know first hand that .40 is an extremely effective round.
Shot placement is key with any round.
@@lbwar15my cousin was shot in the head with a 9mm and survived
@@CelticsCartelthe head has many structures not all of them vital. Placement is still king. Pistols still suck at stopping people
@@CelticsCartelI have 2 cases with a .38 snubby(same gun). Shot placement is key. Also have a backup gun you can draw from a pocket 😂.
Where did you get shot at? Was it just the pain that made you be like “aight I’ll stop”?
"Those weak federal wrists" 😂😂😂 I was thinking it, you said it. Belly laughing. 😂
The Centimeter shows no mercy for the weak.
You're supposed to be able to defend yourself, no matter your wrists condition.
There are a lot of agencies in the world. Which one switched to 10mm?
Considering a bigger but "soft" round made sense. Even if the projet was finally a failure.
@@guillaume4519 If you choose to cary a 380, that's fine with me. Just have something to defend yourself.
No doctor robes either, horseshit
Yes, but specifically weak female, FBI wrists.
Part of the problem with recoil is specific to Glock, at least the older generations. When they made the .40 versions of their guns, they didn't change the recoil spring, they kept the same 17 pound spring from the 9mm versions when the .40 should have a 21 pound spring or better. I put a stiffer spring, and swapped to a steel guide rod in my gen 3 Glock 23 years ago and it made a world of difference.
Chess not checkers, love this! Gotta try it.
The new Glock 23,27,22 Gen 5’s are excellent! They come with 20lb recoil springs now and heavier slides. Approximately 3oz heavier than previous Gen’s.
The recoil spring is super important with 40. I carry 380, 9, and 40 but I stopped carrying 40 for a while because follow up shots were less consistent. That's when I started looking and found an aftermarket recoil kit. It totally changed the way my Beretta 96 shoots. Now I typically carry the 40 when hiking or camping in the forest or during winter when everyone is wearing heavy jackets.
I put a Wolff steel uncaptured guide rod & 20lbs recoil spring in my Glock22 40s&w now it feels like 9mm & better lookup.
@@Barbent1317 Just be careful not to overweight the spring. It does change recoil characteristics, and if you aren't paying attention to shooting fundamentals, it can cause issues with the weapon going back into battery with older generations(don't limp wrist). Be mindful of the average velocity of your particular ammo choice if you go really heavy on the spring, higher is better.
This only applies to older generations, at least 3 and older as the problem was mostly alleviated on newer gens with Glock's switch to recoil pistons on all their pistols versus a standard rod+spring.
The .40 is a fine round. The main reasons that law enforcement agencies have changed to 9mm is: 1. Modern ballistics advances, 2. Cost, cost, cost, 3. Capacity, 4. Ease of use for those officers who only shoot once a year.
The fact that they only shoot once a year and still carry a firearm as part of their job is absolutely ridiculous imo.
This is true
I preferred the 165gr critical defense rounds. The 40 outperformed the 9 in the same round. Either one is a good self defense round, it's just personal preference and cost good 40 defense rounds tend to be more costly than 9
@@claytonjohnston25respect to those that do instead of trigger finger jumpy shits in the LAPD.
And because the FBI did the ballistics tests and decided to switch over. Unfortunately, everyone follows what they do. Just like black berry to Apple.
Garand Thumb couldn't get the Kenosha Kid, so he got Kyle Thickenhouse.
that's gold 😂😂😂
Kyle Rittenhouse we have at home
idgaf what anyone says this is funny
Atleast this Kyle is a real a soldier not a pretend emt
😂
I never understood the “advances in bullet technology” argument. That would apply to larger calibers as well. They don’t just develop advances for 9mm.
That argument is made because larger/more powerful rounds were noticeably more effective in the past. Newer bullet technology helped every round, but it closed the gap that smaller cartridges suffered from. This is shown in this video too.
Windshield glass and car doors are still a thing. Sticking with 40.
@@PavewayJDAM9mm HST,Gold Dot, or Critical Duty will all go through those barriers just fine
Yeah, so if you like the bigger rounds, go for it. But there is much less drawback to the old 9mm these days
9mm technology has advanced a little more than other calibers because it it the most popular caliber in the world. Every country uses 9mm, so it stands to reason that projectile development would favor the 9mm.
"John, what's your background?"
"I hate my life."
"The juice wasn't worth it"
Crain was in 2nd Ranger Batt until he was RFSed
john whats your background
i humbly decline to answer sir
I'll speak for John
"I'll do what has to be done"
I'm pretty sure Clint Smith says "they're all pistol rounds and they all suck" or something to the effect of that
Pistols put holes in people, rifles put holes through people, shot guns blow shit off people. I believe is what Clint said
@rogerlittle354 he said that too. I'm talking about a different quote on why he doesn't care about pistol caliber selection
Some just suck a little more than others. 😄
I think you are talking about the teaching of the legend Jeff Cooper, Clint being just one of his students, that says, all pistol calibers are weak ( you could say "Suck" here), we don't carry them because they are powerful, we carry them because they are portable, and concealable.
At least that is what I think you are thinking of.
Semper Fi,
MAK
@@1marinespatriart165 you're probably right
Respect for the Paul Harrell tribute. Classy on your part. His miami dade analysis was a guntube classic.
Thanks Mike for mentioning....The Man, The Myth, The Legend Paul Harrell 🙏
💯💯💯🙏🙏🙏
Amen!
He just died very recently.. relax. 🤦🏻♂️
Do you want a cookie because you know who he is?? 😐
Paul Harrell. He was what you would call an expert.
RIP
If .40 ammo was cheap the internet would say it's the greatest handgun ever built.
It is cheap
@@TheJojojo333999no is not
Facts
@TheJojojo333999 It most certainly is NOT inexpensive dude, that's the entire point of this comment.
Even if the foe-tee came first, the 9mm would still have a huuuuge following advocating for its increased capacity and quicker, more accurate follow-up shots.
Would probably end up dethroning the 40 regardless.
I love when people say newer 9 mil performs better than older 40. Like ok, you know what else performs better than older 40? Newer 40 lol
Haha, it's like choosing between a car and a horse for your commute based on the model T
Exactly!
😂 i agree. People swear bullet and powder technology only applies to 9mm
And newer 40 doesn’t perform better than newer 9mm to justify switching back to it. 🤷🏼♂️ It is what it is.
I think the point is that new 9mm is similar to old 40, which the feds chose as a benchmark; new 40 is likely better than new 9mm sure, but you don’t need the extra recoil if you are okay with old .40 performance (as you can now get that old .40 performance with new 9mm, which has higher capacity and less recoil)
I can definitively say why most law enforcement agencies moved away from the .40 S&W and it isn't about the terminal ballistics. I've been a cop for 30 years, an LEO weapons instructor for 23 years and my agency's armorer for the same amount of time. I've had a lot of conversations with other agency instructors. The .40 S&W is a good cartridge with some draw-backs. It's biggest draw-back is the difficulty in training new shooters, which the vast majority of cops are. Most cops are NOT gun people. They didn't get into the job because of an interest in firearms. Most officers, in my experience and the instructors I've spoken with, are barely interested in guns at all outside of their need to carry one for the work. The recoil induces a flinch in those officers that becomes hard to overcome without an internal motivation to cure. When you consider that a handgun's terminal performance is not that different across calibers in the grand scheme of things according to FBI ballistics data, it comes down to economy. The 9mm is more plentiful, less expensive, easier to stock, and easier to train with. That's it. The .40 S&W is a good round, it just isn't so much better to justify the downsides. The 10mm (the best millimeter) is better than most common calibers. It's more expensive, less plentiful, harder to find, harder to train with, harder on weapon longevity (except for the Glock platform), and difficult to fit to an average size "bitch mitten". When an agency hits a certain size, it has to standardize. The 9mm wins in every category after that.4
I shoot 165 gr .40 from my g23 and s&w m&p .40 2.0. Between 165gr and 180gr ammo which one will wear out my gun faster? With Trump in the wh ammo will be cheap next 4 years, gona buy me a few cases of ammo.
From my understanding it's also because agencies started hiring more women. Many of them couldn't handle the recoil. But 9mm is cheaper to train with so economics plays a big part when it comes to department budgets.
It all comes down to money. You don't see departments issuing guns in. 380 ACP.
Thank's for your comment. I live in rural Alaska where the 10mm is the most common caliber for officers.
The 9mm or 40 cal is just not enough for moose or bear. Even the 357 is marginal.
I carry a Glock G40 in 10mm with a 870 shotgun with slugs for backup.
Where I live there are more coastal brown bears than people.
I don’t understand people who get into a line of work where your life and others will likely depend on your proficiency with gun, yet you show no interest in gun.
I carry a 40 with solids for black bear while hiking in Michigan along with bear spray. it really boils down to shot placement. spend time with the load that is going to protect you at the range so you are used to the snap of recoil .
Have you ever had to use it on a bear? I'm just curious because I frequently carry a Glock 27 loaded with fmj when I'm in the woods.
@@williambowers2130 I have, guiding a friend's dad while hunting in Utah. Did the job when charged from 10 yards. Fortunate to have drawn my weapon before seeing it.
As someone who lives in a state with capacity restrictions, the reduction in capacity from 9mm to .40 is not a consideration. .40 does have more recoil but it's not significantly worse so I might as well have a bit more power. That being said, whether I carry a .380, 9mm or .40 really depends on what I'm wearing and what I can comfortably conceal on any given day.
It doesn't stop a threat any faster than 9. You're dealing with more recoil for nothing.
@@JonCampo91just get stronger forearms and grip and you wouldn’t have to worry about that lol. At the end of the day it all comes down to shot placement
.45 for those in Cali😢
@@JonCampo91it does actually you can keep your 9mm whatever you feel comfortable with Grandpa
@@JonCampo91 Yeah, that 1lb (if that) of extra recoil is so hard to deal with!! LMAO
When I was shopping for my first EDC pistol, I couldn't afford a G17 or G19, I had just started my professional career. I did however find a police trade-in G22 with steel night sights and 3 magazines. I couldn't find a police trade-in 9mm. Shipped to the dealer, and background check included I walked out paying $275 for my G22. At that time ammo for the 40 was about the same as 9mm. Still carry that g22 to this day.
You can probably drop a 9mm barrel into it if you really prefer 9
But I never use my conversion barrel and stayed with. 40
@ same here haha, I ordered a lone wolf conversion and have shot steel competitions with that combo. The gun ran flawlessly.
All 4 of my g22 are police trade ins. 😊
Same here haha bought it when I was 18 but mine cost me 450 10 years agp
I picked up a G23 Police trade-in not too long ago for $300 & this gun was so mint expected holster wear but the one I got wasn't even shot still had the factory glock grease which it also came with glock night sights extra score but I turned it into a Glock 32 with a 357sig lone wolf barrel & I love it!
I love .40 S&W and always will, it has been my daily carry since I was old enough to buy a handgun (I'm currently 39) I don't not like the 9mm either and don't have anything negative to say about it. I believe they are both excellent rounds to carry. My #1 reason I've stayed with the .40 as my main carry is back in 2008 was the first ammo shortage that I can remember and in my neck of the woods (might have been different in other areas) the .40 ammo was not as scarce as the 9mm due to the fact that more people do carry 9mm. And this has also been the case in more recent shortages near me. But .40 is what I have and is what I've used and trained with for years. Hope everyone on here has a great day and God Bless. Love the channel and another great video. Keep up good work guys!
I've only switched to the 9mm due to the cost of ammo, but my favorite 40 s&w round is the Hornady Critical Duty 165 grain.
I switched to 9mm because arthritis
SAME!, fantastic round, that can do it all. Very well engineered, design, and performance. Well worth the price, indeed.
Hornady Critical Duty and Critical Defense in the 165 grain are excellent, and much better than the much slower lower energy 180 grain. That's what he should have done this test with. The Critical Duty round has better barrier penetration than the Critical Defense.
Nah, 135 gr jhp by underwood, 600 ft lbs lol
.40 will do damage, 9mm will do damage, 10mm will do damage. But a .357 sig video will be very revealing.
9x25 Dillon...
I carried on SWAT, ran a range and bought 357 Sig on a department level, Speer Gold Dot, and what drove me away from 357 was the price and availability. We bought off of a state contract and it was still horrendous. Not to mention our average scores went down dramatically. Sure, the good shooters stayed the same but the average and lower shooters struggled handling recoil. Would I like to have a carbine in 357, hell yeah but it wasn’t about me, it was about helping my department be more effective.
It's not that good you getting to much recoil for very little power increase
.357 Sig has 50% more energy with only 25% more recoil.
.357 SIG is known for one shot stops. 9mm is not.
@Mag_Aoidh $23 for 50 rounds of FMJ you gotta get it offline and know where to go
I liked the overall vibe of this video. A bit more serious, a bit more information dense, and some really awesome slow-motion shots. Good stuff!
As someone who has shot 40 for years, I hated shooting it out of a Glock, M&p handles 40 better, has alittle less snap to it but I agree with him, use what you’re proficient with
Out of the gen 5 g22 It feels better shooting than out of a m&p2.0 personally
Been shooting a xd 40 3inch for about 17 years yes a little snappier yet still very controllable. Shoots as easy as my hellcat
@@mattyb5817does it? I got a Gen 4. I was thinking about switching over to m&p
@@thenoobreturnz8968 I shot my buddies m2.0 and I swear to me it felt more jumpy after I shot my gen5 g22. I had a m2.0 myself but I got rid of it in 40.
@@thenoobreturnz8968 the gen 5 g22 is beefed up for 40s&w
40SW hate is so absurd. Yeah, it's less than 10mm, but energy says it's still more powerful than 9mm and 45acp because it's both weight and velocity. Good caliber size too. The only shortcoming is it is more recoil because there's no free lunch. And ammo prices are insane right now and $20 a box is horrible compared to $13 a box. Overall there's absolutely no issue with 40sw, it's more powerful, makes a bigger hole, and only at a cost of -2 rounds in a magazine on average, but you just have to accept the downsides too, including cost of training and recoil requiring more training.
Honestly I was always under the impression that youtube was a major factor in it's decline. Watching someone mag dump a 40 is far less exciting than a 9mm. The bang it makes is fairly comparable through a mic and it shoots slower. The power of the round isn't really conveyed through video. Especially in the last few years where most youtubers have adopted the whole flashy high speed low drag spec ops larp style.
Honestly it's a big part of the reason I always preferred demo over gt.
Honest Words Julian.
Real SD round begin with a "4" and shoot 200g projectiles.
40 is JUST shy of this but too darn close ta argue.
40 works I know, that it works.
10mm for the win
The other shortcoming rarly talked about is 40. Wear and tear on guns and barrels. The excessive pressures of the 40. Wear threw guns quickly. If you shot alot that not gonna be a gun you can pass down to grandkids. At least not the Og slide and barrel.
Simple fact is it makes a bigger hole than the 9. More Girth and length is always better
What I like about the late Paul Harrell's channel was the ammo testing, brand against brand, not caliber against caliber. Because, it depends. He had 10mm and 40, and for Federal, there was no difference. Or "not enough of a difference to make a difference". The .40 remains a good bridge between 9 and 45.
1:28 “A problem solver in the inner city” is crazy!!!! 😂😂😂
That was a good laugh
As a Chicago native this is facts. 40S&W is still a prevalent round in the hood. A snubbie .38 or .357 in shiny stainless (we refer to them as chrome) or a semiautomatic in 40S&W is hood royalty. I own both, of course. What you carry can gain you a lot of respect in the hood.
@@YacolJ 🙄
@@YacolJ Ah, Shitcago. The pinnacle of civilization, where human achievement, innovation, and culture have reached extraordinary heights!
@AudibleVisibIe as a clarification (I didn't want my post to be too long), I didn't mean hood sh*t respect. I meant that those guns deter criminals from doing crime depending on what it is or looks like. I've had to pull my .40 in self-defense. The biker gang r@ci$t stopped and complied fast when he saw the 40 caliber hole. Oh, and btw I'm 6'4" 200 lbs, and he was bigger than I am. Also, there were multiple attackers with knives. So please don't think that my choice of words classifies me as a certain preconceived idea.
I dumped off all my 40 whether that was smart or not, but I'll share why I got it in the first place. During COVID, all the 9, 45, etc. was gone from store shelves and I hadn't been into the tactical side of firearms long enough to have a stash built up. All my local shop had on a regular basis was 40. All gun prices were highly inflated, but guns in 40 were still pretty cheap. I bought a USP Compact 40 for I want to say $550 and started stocking up on ammo. The gun was fairly snappy, but I could put the rounds on target. Later I picked up a full size USP 40 that was a trade-in LEO gun and it was insanely smooth. HK did magic on the USP to tame the recoil and you got the same magazine capacity as the 9mm, because the gun was designed around 40. It's easily the best single handgun to pick up if you wanted a 40. I probably should've kept it just to have a backup option / additional caliber if I ever needed it. A friend picked one up recently and got a 10mm barrel with it. If you swap the recoil spring and barrel, you have a USP in 10mm. Pretty insane.
My story sounds exactly like yours. Got into the .40 due to limited supply around Covid. Was introduced to H&K. Did some reading all about H&K. Bought 2 pistols one in .40 and the other in 9.
My all time favorite pistol was also an HK USP .40
loved that pistol.
Unfortunately, it got stolen and someone got shot in the stomach at a 4th of July event with it. Law eventually found it at the bottom of a local lake.
As the kids would say, "wild".....
@ that’s insane!
*FINALLY!!!*
The .40 s&w is my favorite and ideal semi-auto cartridge caliber, especially for full-size semi-auto handguns, but 180gr was always too heavy for the .40 s&w, with the exception of hard cast bullets, between 135gr minimum and 165gr maximum parameters is best, with 155gr/150gr bullet weight being ideal! In my humble opinion!
My duty gun was an H&K 40 USP Compact. Still my personal carry gun to this day. My agency switched to the Glock 19 9mm. I keep thinking about switching my EDC to 9mm. But just can't get comfortable with it. .40 S&W is a great round. A little kick. But not a big deal if you train with it.
The USP is a proper platform. 👍🏻 DESIGNED with high pressure rounds as a focus. Makes a huge difference, IMO.
TSA?
I was thinking the same thing
I used to have a USP in .40, I have no idea how you got used to that. That upper slide was one big chunky piece of metal slinging back after each shot, I hated it. Compared it to my Walther PDP. No comparison, at all. Sold the USP .40 right after.
@@Holret try a p2000sk in 40 then lol
Best part about 40S&W was Gaston Glock beating S&W to releasing the first gun in their fancy new round lmao
And temporarily ruining the Glock name with the infamous Glocknades. Most of the Glocks blowing up then were in .40 S&W.
…with unsupported chambers that made them go kaboom. Meanwhile, the M&P was developed to take the extra pressure and oomph from the .40 from the start.
It was actually the worst part. Glock cramming the .40 into a 9mm platform is what created all the bad reputation for both Glock and the .40 as a snappy, parts breaking over pressured round. .40 is a pussycat in a USP or m&p, which were designed around .40 from the ground up.
@@AEtraneI have a usp compact 40 cal. The recoil is a lot lower than other 40 cal guns and after 2 19:54 decades it still functions flawlessly. Awesome gun
Remember kids if your gonna be running any kind of ammo use a aftermarket barrel save yourself from a potential blow up remember squib loads exist so be mindful
“John, go ahead and tell us about yourself”
John, a silent professional: “No.”
Pardon me if this was said already:
The comparative cartridge for 124gr 9mm in 40S&W is the 165gr.
Both 147gr 9mm and 180gr 40S&W are comparative in the subsonic category.
Nice to see someone visiting 40 😄
That’s why this video is flawed
Technically, there are 135gr loadings available for .40 to compare to the 124gr 9mm, but they are astounding in power numbers(600 ft lbs). There are also 150 and 155 gr loadings for .40 to compare to(once again they kinda kick 9mm ass tho, in that 500-600 ft lb range). 9mm doesn't really have a comparative weight I think in that 180gr-200gr range. .40 is some seriously mean shit nowadays...I EDC one for a reason, hell I hog hunt with it, it's THAT good lol..Basically if you give the .40 the same weight ranges as 9mm, it absolutely poops on 9mm lol I carry the 135 gr stuff in my CCW g23...
I said pretty much the same thing all though I've gotten my the best overall performance out of 168gr.
I don't know why all these RUclipsrs keep using 180 in these "side by sides" in less they are just trying to give an edge to the 9. Hell 150 is the most common off the self ammo and many "defensive" rounds are made with 158gr. which do work
really well out of my pistol. The 168 is just a hair better down range out of my PCC so I keep them in my sidearm as well since they use the same mags.
@@WE-R-EVERYWHEREHe should have used underwood 155 grain, Almost 600 muzzle energy
@@losi8ightyew 165 in 40 and 124 in 9mm are comparable. 180 in 40 is similar to 147 9mm. 115 9mm and 135 grain 40 are ballistic cousins.
"For those weak federal wrists" this is why I come here.
Proceeds to hit low on first test shot.
Inner city problems solver 😂
Thanks!
First pistol I bought was a Glock 23 then a 22 a year or so later. I’ve learned so much from both of those and can’t give enough love to the .40 S&W
G23 is such a great pistol
Me too. I bought a Lone wolf 9mm conversion barrel and now have to guns in one. They also sell a 357 sig conversion barrel that will give you 3 guns in one!
Yeah forty is just so nostalgic, the snappy recoil makes you a better shooter and it’s more fun since it’s challenging.
@@HthePro1 I loved it. Left that one stock as it was a truck pistol. I haven’t touch a 9mm Glock since lol.
@@Bromar_Tillo I had a tlr-7 on the 22 and it shot flatter then a 92SF I was actually impressed lol it definitely helped form my hand positions on pistols since I was freshly 21 at the time haha
Paul's video was a lot more useful with his signature "meat target" showing more consistent performance from the 40 S&W when taking non-ideal shots, not straight on, square shots with a ballistic dummy.
These guys are no Paul Harrell's
@@gigabytes5955 Well, yeah; Paul Harrell was a once-in-a-lifetime kind of guy.
The BS reason they took our 40 away, they said ordering 10,000 rounds of 40 ammo would be 10 to 11 months out. They could receive a million rounds of 9 mm in 2 weeks.
First firearm I purchased was a SIG P229R in .40 "Short & Weak" and it remains the favorite of my pistols.
My dad has carried the same guy since i was a teenager. It’s a great gun
M11a1 gang
I still carry mine as well nearly 20 years later. Bought it in 06. Railed German frame.
The Sig P22X series can do no wrong. All great pistols.
@@johnsanko4136 i agree. Only sigs i even take a second look at. Although i do have 2 of the small sigs. A p238 n a p938. The little 9 n 380
I bought a .40 s&w for the ammo crisis. Even during the worst ammo droughts, I can almost always find both defensive, and target ammo for it. It also tends to run as cheap if not cheaper than 9mm in my experience. Sure there's a little more recoil, and a few less rounds. However if the choice is between carrying a few less rounds, and not being able to train and maintain my skill levels, I'm gonna carry less ammo and keep training.
Yeah buddy me too
Ammo manufactures have noticed this trend as well. They stated that they will be reducing production of less popular rounds in order to increase production of what is in demand. I still suspect it will be easier to find. But not like it was and tbh it will probably continuously get harder to find as it looses popularity.
@@lbwar15 with police switching to 9mm, the economy of scale is going to make 9mm a lot more available and cheaper in the future.
@@lbwar15 You speak about manufacturers as if they're a monolith, in reality, others will take advantage of the decisions those given manufacturers make and fill that void. This is basic economics.
I remember going to Walmart getting win 165gr 200 round range pack for like $50. Before they banned pistol ammo it was $65. 45acp is crazy expensive compared to 9mm. Supply and demand I guess.
I split the difference and carry 357 sig. WAY more energy on target. Little snappy but EXPLOSIVE energy dump.
You could be real novel & carry 45 GAP!
Really good video. I have always been a fan of the 40. I have carried it on duty for years. Recently my department switched to 9mm. I have to admit, the 9mm is more enjoyable to shoot. However, at the academy, the government did a ballistic test between multiple rounds. They shot at gel torsos placed behind car doors, windshields, cinder blocks, interior house doors, and chain link fences. I wish you did a similar test. I'm curious to see how the G9 would perform. The government video showed the .40 performed much better than the 9mm if you had to shoot through an object. It was enough of a difference, everyone in the class was asking why carry a 9mm on duty.
With that being said, I carry a 9mm for my conceal carry.
I have a G22. I can throw in a conversion barrel and turn it into a 9mm. Also, remember the ammo shortage of 2020. Couldn't find 9mm, but I could find .40
Ammo shortage almost convinced me to buy a G22. My local gun shop still has cases and cases of 40 on sale from Covid times 😂
The real lesson is to buy your ammo and have a stockpile for hard times regardless of caliber.
I got nothing but love for the 40.
I carry the child of the two, 357 sig. 40 shell necked down to 9mm, and it definitely hits harder than 9 or 40. It also has a crazy fireball, as its moving at 1420fps, though it can go faster.
When tested side by side in other videos, inexperienced shooters were unable to tell which was .40S&W and which was 9mm.
Seems like people are afraid of the .40S&W because so many people repeat the whole "it's snappier than the 9mm" which scares new shooters. In reality they won't be able to tell the difference between the two and get freaked out over nothing.
Awesome video, although I'd say 165 grain .40S&W is far more commonly used. I'd be curious to see how it compares to the 180.
You want to talk about snappy, the .357Sig is a lot snappier than the .40S&W from the same size pistol.
@brucestarr4438 I never got into .357 Sig because I assumed it would never last but it's still here and a fantastic caliber. I wish I had gotten one years ago. I'm just too vested in other calibers to do it now. I've not shot one but I don't doubt that it's a snappy dog.
165 grain is definitely better performance.
The great part about the 40 is that nobody uses it anymore so ammo on the used market is super cheap!
Used ammo?
People sell there guns at pawnshops and sell there unused boxes of ammo, it’s not “used” but “pre owned” and marked down well below msrp
Are you a bot?
@@sdfree83 Haha, I’ve never heard that term used like that before. I imagined him wiping blood off the casings to reuse them! 😂
@@Shadow__133 "Never fired, dropped once"
9mm paraplegic = not enough🤏🥱😴
10mm auto= too much🤯🤕😵
.40 s&w = just right👌🔥💯💫🌟
The 40S&W was designed from the start as a Duty Round for Law Enforcement and had to meet numerous Barrier test criteria which is quite different from what a Civilian would encounter.
Federal has the FBI barrier test results for HST and Speer Gold Dot on their Law Enforcement Aummunition website.
Current FBI Agents are issued Hornady Critical Duty in a 9mm +P loading as it comes closer to the 40S&W in performance.
Would of liked to see how it performed.
I personally carry a medium frame pistol in 40S&W loaded with Hornady Critical Defense 165 gr. as I feel it meets my need for a Self Defense round.
The Hornady 135gr 9mm +P Critical Duty is the cats meow for that caliber.
Great topic thanks for testing the 40 S&W. The 40 S&W has 25% more momentum then a 9mm. If you shoot steel targets you'll see the 40 S&W swing that steel much more. Greater expansion, more kinetic energy, more momentum. Since I'm not laying down suppressive fire it's okay to have fewer in the magazine. BTW all of the G9 bullets get their damage due to tumbling not the flutes. Your high speed camera shows all of them tumbling which is nondeterministic performance.
My first pistol was an S&W M&P Performance Center .40cal. It has a ported barrel, which helps keep it on target and shoot just like a non ported 9mm. Very sweet gun for concealed carry.
My first "real" handgun was a 40sw. I'm 54yrs old now and it remains my favorite round for self defense but I do train and carry 9mm more often due to ammo cost. The 40sw may not be in the limelight anymore but it's still capable of doing g what it was designed to do. Great video that a lot of people can relate to.
First ever handgun was a p229 in .40, don’t understand the hate on .40s
I'm an Australian LEO, and my agency issues the Smith and Wesson M&P in 40S&W as our standard duty carry.
I've never found it to be particularly hard to shoot, but I am a long time shooter outside of work.
That said, a few years back when on holdiay in the USA I visited a range and took a Glock in 9mm for a spin. I found it was very noticeably easier to shoot than the gun Im issued at work. Especially when it came to follow up shots, I was able to crank accurate follow ups out much faster.
Come run IPSC and gives you an excuse to buy a 17A in 9mm haha
I still can’t believe Paul Harrell is gone.
Very sad… he was about gone before I found out he was sick… 😞😞😞🙏🙏🙏
RIP so glad to have his video library available . Great to see his son carry on
Sucks. We all have it coming.
@@zerohero6602 his brother and a recent friend for the newer shooter
The reason I choose .40 S&W over 9mm is from police shootings footage. I have done a lot of research on shootings, seen a lot of videos. I research into the time frame of the shootings and the gun used by each department at the time. At the end of the day, the most common outcome of the 9mm in law enforcement settings is about 8 rounds landed before bad guy goes down and he then moans a lot. The most common .40 S&W outcome is 2 shots landed, guy hits the ground hard and screams like he's on fire. All the ballistics testing in the world cannot quantify what is going on and what the difference is, but I know there's something going on differently with the .40 S&W.
The most fudd comment I’ve read in a long time. Thanks for the laughs!
9 mumble moan vs the 40 scream and wail.
40 definitely better than 9mm. The FBI wanted to save money and they got the masses believing 9 mm is just as good as 40
@@DocMitchell69cope harder. Every metric says .40 outperforms 9mm
@@DocMitchell69 I follow his channel for years. Sam is very knowledgeable. You just sound like a butthurt 9mm fanboy.
9mm energy + 32 ACP energy = 40 energy. THE 40 is simply a higher tier round especially in 155-165 grain loads which were not represented in the video. The 180 gr 40 has the least performance of all 40 loads and it’s still outpaced the 9 mm in this video. The 40 in 155-165 grain would show a much more significant advantage.
The same improved bullet technology available for the 9mm is also available for the .40.
Don’t try and reason with the 9mm manlets.
Yea ik!! why is this point always made about the bullet tech rising for 9mm when obviously that means 40. Is punching harder as well?
Used to live in a restricted state. If I could only have 10 rounds, I wanted something with a little more power behind it. An M&P40C gen 1 is easy to conceal, has 10 rounds on tap, and you could pick up .357 sig and 9mm barrels to swap out.
I also carried one for work and shot competition with a 40. Plus, it’s legal for deer hunting in several states. I’ll always have a soft spot for the .40 S&W
.357 sig is a seriously underrated cartridge, I call it 9mm on meth. Essentially 9mm +p+p+p+ lol
Just curious, why do competitive shooting with a .40? It objectively has more recoil, and no advantages, since ballistic performance is moot for competition. Why not a 9mm? It has less recoil and more mag capacity, and imo hitting longer distances is better with 9 as well.
@@prestonbaker8456more points per shot because it falls under a “major” ammunition. To contrast, 9mm falls under minor BUT there can be 9mm major.
@@michaelsuarez1656 Ah I see thanks for explaining.
Fellow California USPSA and CCW holder. Hit my two points.
I do carry a .40, but also a 9mm, and a .45, as well as a .357, though the last one doesn't get a lot of carry time for practicality reasons in an urban environment. What I carry depends a lot on the weather, what other folks might be wearing, and what I think I'll need more of; capacity vs immediate ballistic power. I prefer things like the heavier .40 for cooler weather if I'm potentially attacked by somebody wearing heavier/more layers, but 9mm for warmer weather.
40s&w was a solid choice when living in CA. Limited to 10 rounds in 2010, 40 was a better option than the 9mm
Limited to 10 round take the biggest caliber you shoot well. There for the Glock 37 is also interesting.
As a Brit with extremely limited experience with real fire-arms, I have shot both a 9mm and .40 S&W. The .40 S&W recoil felt more like a 'push' (stronger but slower) whereas the 9mm felt more like a 'slap' (less overall force but delivered more immediately). Given my lack of experience, I found the .40 S&W easier to predict / stabilise than the 9mm.
That often has more to do with the firearm than the round, in my experience. But the overall trend you experienced is accurate as well. 9mm guns tend to have lighter components, which make it snappier.
That all being said, I'm not an expert either, so maybe there is something more to the rounds themselves that I'm not aware of. I've fired both from a variety of platforms, but I've never looked into what kinds of powder loads each round uses, and how much of a difference there might be in burn rate. Might be fun to look up, later....
The first pistol I ever bought was an H&K USP .40 full size two tone. Absolute tank of a gun, dropping the slide really does feel like a bank vault.
I heard you can buy a flower wrist band that makes your wrists 40% stronger allowing you to shoot the 40.. but the side effect is your voice will get deeper and you’ll grow a mustache…
😂😂 YESSS
You'll notice your pants getting tighter too.
Rain bow wrist bands are duel purpose
As a 40 enjoyer, i have to admit that 9mm temporary cavity exceeded expectations.
If they would have used the 165 gr in the .40 the temporary cavity would have been much better.
I do 50 push ups every morning, i feel no recoil....no limp wrist here boys.
45 ACP is my favorite handgun round, but 40 S&W is a great round if you want something that can expand to a large size and maintain its momentum in organic material. Essentially, if you’re having to shoot through clothing and through an arm, the 40 S&W will be better at reaching vitals than 9mm.
Thy are moving away because thy have lowered standards and have to find someway to get there mediocre applicants to qualify. 2:12
“It’s easier for our small handed shooters to qualify with 9mm”.
@@bkennedy8 and qualified only means x round on target in x tine. I bet the numbers would go up even higher if you used a 22lr.
This was a step up in production! Long time subscriber, and this is clearly a step up in videography caliber
40 S&W is best used at 155 & 165 grains. Using 180 grains takes down the velocity to much and .40 does better with 1100-1200 fps.
Unfortunately those 155gr .40s at 1300fps were just plain hell on up-calibered 9mm handguns not designed for it. That’s what killed the USBP Beretta 96D Brigadiers. Even after switching to HK USPcs and P2000s designed for .40 they still ended up reducing the loads and increasing bullet weights.
@kmrtnsn I'm talking standard loads of 155-165 grain. Nothing special or plus P about them. The standard amount of powder will push the bullets to good 9mm style velocities due to the weight. If you do the math, .40 is ballistically superior by far to 9mm. However, this heavily depends on the speed of the projectile. So if you get 155 or 165 grain bullets to hit 1100 or 1200 fps, they will automatically be ballistically superior to all 9mm projectiles. To put this in perspective, a 5.56 is ballistically superior to a .45acp because of the speed difference alone. Speed is usually the main factor in a bullets performance, and that's why we see 9mm do well in it's performance because of the standard 1100-1200fps it tends to get which affects lethality on targets. However, having a .45acp deliver the same velocity of 5.56 would be so extreme that it would make 5.56 look like the .22 it is. It's that same factor but in this case it's the .40 vs the 9mm where diameter and bullet weight are different with the .40 being superior in both. So the only thing needed would be the speed in the .40. which it has if you get 155 or 165 grain loads.
155 is suboptimal penetration!! Unless its solid copper fluted bullets stick with 165gr or heavier. 180gr and 980-1000fps is still a good performer but 165gr has more margin of safety with bullet setback(never rechamber any 40 round more then once) as well as better velocity then 180gr. 165gr is still barely minimum penetration with traditional hollowpoints hence why so,e may argue 180 is better. I like both 165 and 180.
40 S&W is more barrier blind. It retains more momentum and passes through things that would deflect 9mm like twigs, objects, glass, walls, etc.
Twigs?
And windshields…..go thru like nothing there….I’ve shot hundreds of rounds during training thru windshields with the .40……it was eye opening in a good way
You're clueless. Police use 9mm rounds that do go through car doors and glass just fine and their goal is that they still act like hollow points when they hit their target. They don't want over penetration. A 9 will go through multiple car doors, even a hp.
that's why police fire 16 to 60 rounds out of 9mm compared to 1 .40
That's why the 147gr 9mm is a very popular bullet weight.
I EDC'd an H&k USP in 40 S&W, loved it, shot it weekly and never had a problem staying on target double or triple tapping. I made a hard decision to lock it away and consolidate my ammunition... 9mm (Glock 17) for EDC, 45 cal (Glock 21) for tyranny.
"What we have here is College on the left and ready to settle down on the right" is a great way to sum up the 40 v 9 debate
I still don't understand what that means. Is he saying drunk, not discerning versus the doctor you married?
@@finesse7943 Oh sweet innocent boy. stay pure
yeah, perfect. ruclips.net/video/IUsMOWQLvdI/видео.html
Just a note, there are some very good looking 165 grain loads now available for the 40.
I have a 40 on order. there are several reasons that I chose it over the me too caliber.
I figured that if I was going to put up with the high pressure blast I might as well get a substantial size bullet as well. In cases where the HP fails to expand (long range or damage to the bullet from striking a cell phone for example) I figure a 40 caliber hole beats a 36 caliber hole. 15 rounds of 40 is still a step down in recoil and up in capacity from my 44 magnum. I am not quite ready to concede to my advancing age and arthritis. When that time comes we'll bring in the 32s. 😊😇
This reply wins on the me too reference. Lots of logic as well. Good news, grip strength is something that you can train & improve through almost all of your life as a man.
Your camera work is awesome, 40 on top of the gell block LEGEND, thanks for all you do.
I've seen some demonstrations in-person and online where the .40S&W will perform better against light cover over 9mm, likely due to its greater mass. I carry a 9mm. However, I do think you are getting a little more round per round with 40's greater mass. If you're a poor young man, a police trade-in Glock 22/23 or Gen 1 S&W M&P in .40 at $300 (sometimes less) is a great deal if you're balling on a budget.
Protip, if you dont like the heavier weight bullets, if you're after that lighter weight stuff, .40 will scoot a 135 gr bullet at 1400+ fps netting you almost 600 ft lbs lol
155, 165 in the .40 is a more realistic comparison. Most agencies use these weights as do most people. The.40/.357 sig are already loaded to max pressure so there is no commercially available “+p.
this simply isn’t true 😂anyone who’s shot .40 knows there are hit loads and their and normal winchester loads 😂difference being 150 fps
180 is comparable to 147, heavy for caliber. 165 middle like 124. 155 light for caliber like 115
@@lebthot5787 you are correct but what I said is true, there are no +P loads. The loads that are faster are loaded to full capacity. The loads that are slower are loaded down. It would be more accurate to say there are proper loads (the faster loads of which we speak) and low P loads (the slower rounds of which we speak).
@@dylanholbrook6239exactly!!
@@lebthot5787it is true, you have “standard” loads which is what’s usually put in your hollow point and SD rounds and then there’s the “training” loads which are what’s put in your FMJ rounds, a few grams less of powder. There is no +P designation like in 9mm and 45. Buffalo bore is the only company that has a round they say is +P and that’s because it’s loaded so hot that it will blow a Glock or any other non fully supported barrel apart and they tell you it can only be used in platforms with a fully supported barrel and even then it can cause major degradation to its components.
Carried a H&K USP 40 for 17 years and a with the Feds the Beretta 96. Never had issues with it. Now I carry a 9mm. Canik as a primary.
U.S.M.C. RULES FOR GUNFIGHTING:
No.6 "Do not attend a gun fight with a handgun whose caliber does not start with a "4".
The old timers used to say always use a caliber with a 4 in front of it.
So having a 4mm handgun is okay for crayon eaters?
@@jmpetersrn don't tempt them, they'll figure out something.
@@jmpetersrn "doesn't *start* with...". implication being there are numbers after it. sorry, no prize today.
Nice try boomer, but they all shoot 9mm's now lol.
Pretty cool Hillsdale College jumped in as a Sponsor of the Channel. Awesome knowledge gained from them, and Garand Thumb!
Saran wrap/shrink/stretch wrap or similar material (think walmart grocery bags) also works great. Doesnt let your skin breathe. I've used it to great effect. Furnace went out on me several years ago and we had a particularly brutal winter. Wore grocery bags like an inner layer before i put my socks on and wrapped saran wrap (just tight enough to stay on, not super tight) around my torso while wearing a t shirt and legs while wearing long johns.
My first pistol was a usp hk compact in 40 cal two decades ago and it’s still my baby. I have never had a malfunction ever. I put it up so my first born some can have it in 15 years. Oldy but goody
I am thinking about buying hk 40 usp compact. Is it easy to conceal carry and what holster do you use? Thanks.
@ it’s doable. It’s kinda thick though. The holster I used was a handmade leather one. But I have seen some new ones because people are putting optics cuts on them now and kinda bringing them back.
@ best part about the hk 40 cal is it’s as shootable as 9 mm. I don’t know what it is about it but mine shoots super flat. My g23&22 both have way more recoil
@@HKGunPlay Thanks.
.40 is a great round. Glock 27, glock 23, hk p2000sk and shield pc are great guns. Use real rounds like double tap and underwood. They are the best middle ground round. The recoil isn’t bad whatsoever
nice to see you here!
I just dislike Glock and I dislike 40sw. 9mm, 10mm, and 45 exist, I personally have no use for an in betweener.
45 is an inbetweener between 9 and 10. @@TheRevenantBalor
@diodoxystar Indeed but it's the one I accept lol, I just don't own 40 or 45 and don't plan on it but I could be tempted with a .45 not a .40
@@diodoxystar Some people will disagree though, we have a lot of this colt .45 Lord's caliber people so I try not to say that too loud 😂
Started my LE career in 1980 with a Smith Mod 10 bull barrel 38 Spec. 1985 Smith Mod 65 357, 1988 Beretta 92F 9mm....8 years later I was able to transition the Dept to the SW 40 in Glock 23. After repeated stress fractures and other component failures with the weapon with my high volume shooters, I transitioned Dept to the 45 cal Glock and it was a good experience. Since I have retired the new Chief reverted to the 9mm Clock 17/19 due to cost and DEI issues. Over all the 40 cal was a very effective round but actually less controllable than the 45 cal. and exerted internal pressures that compromised the pistols at a much higher percentage than was normal,
Granted 9mm ammo has come a long way from the early 2000's, from the perspective of a former police detective, I have interviewed many people after being shot with a 9mm... Number of people available for interview after being shot with 40S&W ...ZERO.
I have heard trauma surgeons say similar about .40 (and .45).
I'm pretty sure that this is more likely to be because 9mm is used in far greater quantities than .40 S&W, meaning the sample size eclipses it and would lead to you interviewing more people who have survived being shot by 9mm lol
No handgun rounds are meant to be one shot stoppers, unless you're talking a .50, but let's be real, who's carrying one of those around. The "stopping power" debate is dumb and irrelevant when 9, .40, and .45 are all roughly the same nowadays in terms of quality and performance. 9mm is generally regarded as the best because it offers the highest capacity alone. TLDR, id rather use a rifle in every circumstance .
@@PrimalInstinct0704 There's not a huge difference but there is a difference!
One commenter from Brazil, in another video, said when their police used .40 SW Taurus pistols, it took an average of one to two rounds to stop someone. They switched to the nine and it became three to five rounds to stop someone.
I'm so glad the video started at 11:30
I was my department’s firearms instructor and armorer until I retired. We switched from.40 to 9mm because the newer officers had trouble making accurate shots with their issued handguns. Especially those officers who only trained once a year during requals. Training equals proficiency and most people simply don’t want to train so they struggle to maintain proficiency in a very perishable skill. I always looked forward to shooting as much as possible and spend a lot of time training.
Most my LEO friends carried 165gr .40 S&W ammo in their service pistols.
Charlie is a gem
A gem to be protected and guarded for eternity
Charlie isn't with this channel anymore. He abandoned his (supposed) friend Mike the second it got hard to stand by him.
Shady actions make people leave you. Weird
@@rickh9396hard to hang with someone who’s actions are completely opposite of what he portrays to us ..JS
@@rickh9396 No, Mike abandoned them when he showed them who he really is.
Imagine the lack of integrity it would take to stand next to a man like that as he gives husband and dad advice.
Well, maybe you wouldn't have to imagine.
My choice was .40cal because of Paul Harrell barrier test. I can also have a barrel conversion to 9mm if I want to.
The .40 does better with 165s than the 180gr. Also, the equivalent 9mm load would be 147gr if having to use the 180 in .40. I have larger pistols in .40 and smaller in 9mm.....the smaller 9s still recoil more than the full size 40s. I like to keep the recoil impulse similar between my handguns, so that is why I roll like that.
I'm fairly certain there was a very specific reason that .40 loadings in 165gr, 150gr, and 135gr weren't chosen for this specific test.
When comparing any .40 round to a slightly lighter 9mm +P+ round (such as 115gr 9mm vs 135gr .40), the 40S&W will have a tenth or two of an inch more expansion, with a hundred or two FPS more velocity, and do it all with negligible recoil difference over the +P+.
It doesn't make a very interesting video, and would likely garner quite a bit of bashing due to the .40's obvious superiority in similar grain weights.
i miss Micah and Charlie Jon is great though
They were the only reason this guy survived guntube. That and the roids
What happened to them?😢
@@TTN4thought theyr'e still living locally but doing their own thing now.
@@TTN4thoughtMike had too much personal drama going on that they didn't want to be a part of it.
@@bghiggy That's an understatement.
Also check out the Liberty Ammo (made in Texas)
The Civil Defense 40 S&W travels at 2000 feet per second and is the most effective .40 cal available. It has more kinetic energy than most 45 ACP defense rounds but weighs less than almost any 9mm. It is also lead-free and California-compliant.
Weight: 60gr - Velocity: 2000 FPS - Kinetic Energy: 533 FPE - Accuracy: < 1” @ 25 Meters
Rounds: 20 per box - Terminal Effect: 3 ½ “W x 12” D
Compared To Other Top Self-Defense Rounds
- 34 to 39% less felt recoil - 70 to 95% more velocity - 5 to 23% more kinetic energy
- Reduced over-penetration - More stopping power
Projectiles function differently than any other self-defense round on the market. We designed the Civil Defense line to eliminate threats with one round. We did this by creating the maximum amount of damage and tissue disruption possible. They do well against barriers, but when the large cavity fills with fluid, the hydraulic pressure builds until the side walls of the projectile explode. With that explosion comes rifle-sized temporary cavities and hydrostatic shock, therefore increasing stopping power by tenfold. Following the explosion, the bullet fragments into a starburst-shaped pattern creating multiple wound channels. This process also benefits in many other areas across the spectrum of things considered when talking about self-defense. Such as reduced over-penetration and lessening the risk of unintended casualties. Having a lighter projectile also leads to less muzzle flips for faster follow-up shots.
This is what I carry.
The Underwood 140gr Xtreme Penetrators and the Buffalo Bore 155gr are also excellent.
That camera is a great addition. Not sure how influential the "temporary wound cavity" is, but it looks cool 😏 please do a video about 357 Sig!
During Covid it was next to impossible to get 9mm at any store. So I noticed while there was a still a shortage of 40s&w there was more of it left on the shelves. So I got a M&p 40 and honestly I enjoy it just as much as my 9mms. So I’d say it’s a good alternative if ammo is selling like crazy in your area. Since 40s&w seems to be a less popular round.
This was true. I remember I had a ten mil and never found trouble getting it all the way through the pandemic
2:06 - 40 S&W is a fine round. With that said; the technology in bullet design has gotten so much better that it has narrowed the 40 advantage given the 9mm is less snappy.
Great video Mike and John. Carried the .40 G23 for years and loved it, mostly because I shot USPSA with the .40 S&W PRO and never had an issue taking down the steel because of the power, and yes I trained long and hard to master the recoil and muzzle control (BTW the full frame S&W PRO .40 is heavy enough to reduce the recoil, whereas my G23 has a bit more due to its carry size.) All that said, I have moved to the G43X for my daily carry and love it, definitely much easier recoil/muzzle control. I still use my full frame .40 for competition though as I have gotten so proficient with it over the years. BTW I use the Hornady Critical Defense as my carry ammo.
A G35 is a cheap way to get into USPSA Limited class.