Most Controversial Spark Plug video on the Internet - Yes, I gapped them per specs
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- Опубликовано: 13 сен 2024
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Jeff Slavens' video on this subject - • Video
Tokyo Offroad’s video on this subject - • Part 2- 2019 KTM 250 E...
Whoa. Who knew this was going to be such a hot topic. Many of you emailed me when Jeff Slavens first put out his video about the spark plugs. I got more email about a video that was made by someone else than about anytime I can remember. I watched it, and put a different plug in my bike, per the recommendation. Seemed like cheap insurance to me. I took it on blind faith. Let me set the record straight directly out of the gate: I’m not attacking anyone here. I don’t have any problems with Jeff Slavens. I haven’t had any personal contact with him, but he seems like a genuine good guy. He’s most likely forgotten more about dirt bikes than I even know at the current time. This is just about me sharing my experience.
The short version of the story is that my bike ran like crap with the plugs that Jeff suggested I use. Yes, I gapped them per the specs. I tried the Iridium version of the same plug, and it ran like crap. I put the stock plug back in the bike and it runs great again. Doing more research, it appears that the stock extended reach plug might be there for more than just emissions reasons. Running the standard reach plugs can in theory retard your timing 2-4 degrees. Maybe that’s why my bike ran like garbage with both of the other plugs I tried.
The extended reach plug that comes stock in these bikes (NGK ZGR7GI) is the subject of all the controversy. Watch the video, and tell me what you think. I’m going to stick with the stock plug in my TPI bikes, because I don’t want my timing to be retarded 2-4 degrees, and I don’t want it to run like crap.
I don’t think I’ll have a spark plug or motor issue because I’m not adding any compression to my bike. Maybe if you are adding compression, this is something that should concern you. I don’t know for certain.
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How I choose a plug-
Open my manual,
See what plug is listed,
Go online or to shop,
Buy plug listed in manual.
Pretty simple
true story
Same
Same here
Look at you Hoosier Daddy, walking on the wild side!
😂👌
Tokyo off-road is the man ! I highly suggest watching his vids. He’s very thorough with his work explains things well and I trust what he says. Glad you made this vid ! I’m just going to use what’s in the manual :) Good to see you back on the bike !
Yeah, Tokyo off-road is the channel to watch for technical info on KTM's.
except he talked crap about spark plugs..so no I wouldn't trust
I am a motorcycle mechanic 35yrs. All my bikes are 2 strokes. Engines that run projected plugs have slightly different combustion chamber design to accommodate. RULE NO 98 - NEVER fit a PROJECTED PLUG in an engine that runs a short projected plug as STD! (Opposite to what ol mate did.) You WILL end up melting a hole in your piston!! Just use whats recommended pepps! If you want somthing special, just go irridium version of the RECCOMENDED SPARKPLUG. Projected plugs put the flame fronts ignition point closer to the top of the piston, more central in the chamber, std plugs start the flame front closer to the top of the combustion chamber. Generally, the profile of the piston top and combustion chamber shape are different in one way or another to accomodate different plugs and achive different ignition points and burning profiles of the fuel within the combustion chamber. The reason he melted the plugs earth electrode is likely due to other causes, i.e. high altitude, low octane fuel, engine overheating, air leak-lean mixture, timing too retarded, etc.
People make things WAY MORE difficult than it should be. Run OEM parts and you'll be golden
A good advice in with japan engineers...but with ktm shit? Nope...
The extended reach plug is used due to combustion chamber shape, when going to a high compression head that shape is changed. Using the standard reach plug in a stock head does not change the timing, it changes the way the combustion flame front propagates. Yes with a stock head definitely use the recommended plug.
Good video. You did a great job at taking the high road and not insulting Jeff but provided a different opinion for your viewers. There needs to be more respect in You Tube in the riding community, we all sweat, break our bones and spend our hard earned money on motorcycling.
Kyle , impressive 👏 effort making your videos ! You humble yourself among the expert dirt bike mechanics world , but make no mistake that each and everyone of us that own a bike must learn basic mechanics to keep the beast running.
I'm the guy age 65 that raced the Honda Elsinore 125 AMA AMATURE back when it was first unleashed in the Marty Smith days! And today I'm back on a 2019 KTM 500 EXCF after 46 years. I rode in Pa. Trail Riders 96 miles event last fall and what an eye opener. This all day ride first ever over washed out mountain roads and single track made me grateful I was wearing some of the best crash protection ROCKY MOUNTAIN has to offer.
Now for the reason I'm commenting! I see a few videos for you to work up that are important subject matter for anyone looking to buy into the dirt bike world. Anyone that owns a bike MUST realize that you just don't buy a bike and ride without knowing you've just become a back yard mechanic at best. I have invested in ROCKY MOUNTAIN'S TUSK WHEEL BALANCER ,TIRE STAND , TIRE SPOONS , YAMALUBE TIRE LUBE , VALVE STEM TOOL, RIM LOCKS, SPOKE TORQUE WRENCH, WEIGHTS WEIGHTS ,the list goes on . My point here and this is only the tires and wheels of the bike. You need a video to make the point you just cannot expect to invest in a bike and the investment stops there 😉!
Another video might explain the different protective gear that is available tailored for the type riding you choose. Make the point that money invested in the best gear to avert injury is money well spent.
Again ROCKY MOUNTAIN ATV MC HAS IT ALL AND CHASE'S VIDEOS ALSO GET YOU THROUGH THE BUMPS IN BECOMING A MECHANIC!
KEEP SMILING 😃 AND THROW THAT DAMN MASK AWAY ,LMAO !
WALT SPRENKLE
Wow! I would have to say you have some of the most respectful, knowledgeable and appreciative followers of your videos on the planet ! You did an excellent job on uncomplicating this spark plug situation without dissing Jeff ( who can come across a bit grumpy at times).Very well done ! I have the upmost respectful for both of you !
One thing to note is that Jeff Slavens always pushes his Slavens Mule packages on every Ktm and Husqvarna model - every year. It includes an S3 head which indeed is high compression. I have a friend who has a 250 TPI with the S3 head and his stock plug got destroyed. He was one of the customers Slavens cited. I think Jeff’s frame of reference is from a person with a modified bike - his type of customer. And you are so correct to point out that Ktm just might have an engineer or two who know a thing or two about combustion. Thanks for your video!
Bill Geddes, thanks for comment. A appreciate your input here.
Exactly! Always follow the money.
Just qurious the s3 head offers more compression so it runs hotter so i would and have in the past go 1 colder in plug range and plug chop the bike.
I agree It’s an ignition timing issue for me, if you move the ignition point in the combustion chamber you also move the “wave front” of the explosion, effectively changing the ignition timing as described.
Thank you for mentioning the higher compression. I think a lot of people were confused and thought if you revved out the bike it was going to grenade.
Why one would actually believe with KTM’s vast pool of knowledge/experience, they would not know which spark plug to use? Also, where in AZ did you go riding?
Hello have an 300 -18 tpi and experiens exactly the same thing as you kyle when i change the spark plug to ngk br7es. Change to standard and it runs perfect again
Martin from sweden.
Thanks for the input Martin
Well done Kyle, correctly spoken with your experiences, as you know people's opinions are based on their own experience and you have done the groundwork to back up your opinion.
Keep up the good work
Well done!!! This video was great! Stand up for logic, make people understand the time engineers put behind basic choices in a design.
This may already be in the comments but it was my understanding that Slavens was recommending the old plugs when the bikes are combined with a high compression head and haven't been re-tuned. The newer style plugs are fine on a stock bike but can't handle higher temps with a high comp head due to leaner stock tuning, so once it's tuned you can then run the OEM plug again. You talk about this later in the video but plenty of people will probably comment on only the first 5min of the video.
Honestly thank you for making this video. People talk out of their asses for views and people believe it. Cheers mate
You do a great job! Great video and we are glad you do these videos. Always informative! Good to see you are back on the bikes also.
Honestly Kyle I would just go with the plug that KTM recommends and owners manual because those guys went to school to become a engineer and went to work on these KTM Motors and are probably paid hundreds of thousands of dollars a year to make those Motors the best Motors they can so yes OEM is good. Great videos Kyle and keep them coming.
I think you’ve made a very wise statement here. Jeff is no doubt a knowledgeable guy but that doesn’t mean he can’t be wrong. KTM motorcycles are not designed by idiots.
UMM.. My kickstarter broke around 10 hours., and I barely used it. KTM sent me a new one. I couldn't get the old one off. They used red locktite on the splines, and I needed to notch it out with a grinder. . So there could be idiots working at KTM.. All that said I love the bike.
Pluggate 2018. I'm just over here on my carb bike like braaaaap
A cheaper version of the projected plug is the BPR series from NGK. So in this application, the BPR7ES would be the cheaper alternative that will run well.
I did the same thing on my 250 and it ran like a carbed bike with the choke left on. I switched to the stock plug. Thanks for the confirmation Kyle.
happy to help.
Slavens has some great videos, but I just don't get the "I know what I'm talking about so listen or shut up" attitude. In my experience the ones who have decided they are experts and no longer need to substantiate their claims are the ones who are starting to slip. This plug issue doesn't even affect my 2006 250 XC-W but it caught my interest (one day I'll own a new bike!) Whoever is right, your approach to testing, sharing your experience, and respectfully presenting it to the community is hands down the only way to operate. I like your videos a little more every day! Keep it up man!
He has a huge ego problem lol
Yeah I totally get that bout Jeff.
My $10,000 ktm it garbage because it needs his $10,000 SLAVINS douche kits.
I like his videos and do buy parts from him but yeah he kinda
is geared towards the people who have more money than sense.
These bikes are pretty darn great right out of the box these days.
WHAT?? You're saying that your average RUclipsr doesn't know more than a multi million dollar R&D team from a major manufacturer like KTM? I always tell people to listen to their manufacturers and to quit Googling everything. lol. Good stuff!
Jeff slavens isn't your average youtuber haha
@@dbikekid2169 I don't know who he is but I don't doubt that. But when a development team spends a lot of time and effort doing this I personally put more weight into that than a RUclipsr. Even this video, there was no real data just, "It ran like garbage." R&D runs on numbers and my guess is they plug and play and then do some 0-60's, run a standardized circuit and record average times, ect. Then utilize this quantitative data to run whichever plug yielded the best results. They don't always get it right of course, as they're human as well, but a majority of the time I'd say they do get it right and are creditable! A lot of the time RUclipsrs or individuals who lived in the industry get it right but I'd say they don't fall into the, "Average RUclipsr" category. They would be subject matter experts with a RUclips account. lol.
Yea that's slavens, his not actually a youtuber, just a well known and respected guy in the moto industry sharing his knowledge and ideas. The dirt bike manufactures don't always get it right, bunch of small company's who can improve on stock engines and parts. But yea I'd just run the plug kato put in it haha
Kyle, thanks for the ineresting video. I just bought myself a 2017 150 SX and wondered if the advantages you listed for the larger gap plug - better combustion efficiency etc. - can be translated to other engines as well, like the 150 in my case. Or would I just run into different problems? Running the stock head so far. I absolutely know that sticking to KTM's (or NGK's) recommendations is the primary way to go, but I'd really like to have your take on using larger gap plugs in different engines. Awesome channel and great videos, keep it up!
to be fair, my guy Kyle there could have just gone straight in the video and just basically told everyone that Jeff doesn't know what he is on about but he's such a nice guy that he was like nah lemme just be nice here and just offer up my opinion, this is how youtube should work, not just a load of youtubers beefing each other over nothing. Supporting DirtBikeChannel since Day 1.
Have to agree with the points you've made here with one caveat. I too watched that vid from Jeff and I was shocked to hear his comments on the situation. However like you I can't imagine KTM Engineers don't know what they are doing. That said Jeff is very intelligent when it comes to motors and tuning, likely knows as much about it as any of their Engineers. So my thought here is that while there may be an issue with those extended spark plugs the problem is not with the bike but in fact the problem is that NGK needs to maybe change the design of that plug or change the material so that it can't fall apart as Jeff has shown. Granted this issue really only affects those who want to bump their compression up........ Anyhow, love the vid, keep the good stuff coming.
KTM didn't release TPI after spending weekend in a garage. They did years of research and I'm glad that we have such company that it's pulling new things on market. Comparing to Japanese bikes there are tech the same for last couple of years. I'm not saying that they are bad but having TPI in 2 stroke is really big step. 10 years ago everybody would be laughing.
@Horgh totally agree but find me perfect bike. KTM should have better suspension OOTB like Kayaba but not have it. If Yamaha would be cheaper (or fully loaded) comparing to KTM/Husky I'd chooseYZ250FX (because WR250 can't be compared )instead of EXC-F 250. But looking in the future, it's better to buy KTM because it'll sell faster and price not going down. like you said 9/10, I think it's a good score but I'd give them 7/10.
I heard some folks talking in my local powersports shop that some people have been experience issues with the longer stock plugs where parts of the center electrode were chipping off and destroying their new motors. That was the biggest reason folks around here were recommending swapping out the stock plug immediately.
Could be the different base gaskets ktm uses are different height , I believe there are 3 sizes for each model, this could be a issue, I'm not a professional mechanic but do full rebuilds .
The spark plug design is pretty integral to combustion chamber design which is probably significantly modified vs the carbureted version. Convincing arguments, Kyle, and tactfully presented.
I Always stick with stock. Well done for trying and giving thorough feedback!
Kyle, been a fan for awhile now. I understand it wasn’t your intent to call out Slavens on his spark plug scare but I’m glad you did! I agree he definitely has a ton of knowledge but he definitely does talk alot of smack in a very arrogant tone often as I experienced personally on a PM asking a very legitimate question regarding the Vortex ECU. Thanks again for your honest and humble opinions and making us all feel on your level. Cheers !!
Excellent vid mate! Hats off to you for challenging Slaven’s racing - precision in communications is so important, and I think he missed that opportunity. You did an excellent job in explaining that. I always agree with OEM, except for some very few circumstances. Keep up the great work.
Sounds like a high compression bike needs the stock style plug but a step cooler if it's having a plug issue, I'd also wonder if they need to be running race gas on high comp heads.
Great video. I guess it just goes to show you that not everyone on the internet knows what they are talking about. I am glad you got that sorted out. Thanks for taking the time to check/verify your results. It looks like other people are experiencing the same results.
When you say that the high compression engines may need a different plug, that makes sense to me and I agree with that. Cuz KTM sells the bikes with the extended reach plug for a reason, and they have tuned the bike to work with that plug. So if you are going to change the overall tuning of the bike then you may need to Change plugs but other than that I'd say you oughta stick to what KTM says to use
What you're saying makes sense in that the ignition point within the chamber is very time/position sensitive and placing it deeper in a standard chamber should give it the correct timing for max burn rather than incomplete burn. I know from my own experience that when I cut my head on my Husky's I had to experiment with a different temp range to get optimum burn. The same happened when I had a machinist reshape the head on my YZ 465's to give a better squish band to quench end gases.....it used to get as hot the the Sun when I pinned in the desert on air-cooled bike.....different conditions call for adjustments in timing/spark/jetting. I rigged by choke up on a cable so that when I was coming into a check I would thumb the choke until it blubbered....thus cooling the chamber with raw fuel before I'd let off to save my engine. You modern guys have it nice compared to us old farts. I found a lot of times the heat range would be in-between NGK numbers and then a Bosch would many times be my go-to plug. Bosch heat ranges slightly different....they still supply plugs? Keep the Faith, Tom Enjoy your videos...wish I was younger....still riding, tho.
I put a hi-compression head (S-3) from Slaven’s on my 2019 KTM 300xcw TPI and you can definitely tell the difference from 0 rpm on up. It’s very linear and keeps pulling forever. Love it. Also use the stock plug (pricey) but so far it’s worked fine. Adage, don’t fix what ain’t broke IMHO. Thanks for the videos Kyle, really good stuff.
If a plug is too hot (#7 vs #8 etc) it can cause pre-ignition. Maybe the extended plug isn't the problem but rather the temperature of the plug.
Conversely if a plug is too cold or too far away from the designated combustion area it could cause less than complete burn but less likely to affect ignition than too hot of a plug.
While maintaining factory recommended plug length, it might be worth considering the plug temperature or plug gap to ensure complete compression and the optimal air-fuel mixture encompassing the plug spark before ignition.
PS- By the way NGK plugs, the lower the number the hotter the plug and the higher the number the cooler. Seems silly but that's the way they are.
Ran in exactly the same issue with my 2022 Te250i. Short old plug runs like garbage. Fouled in 30 hours. Stock plug - runs magically. I only regret I needed 30 hours to realize that, and to find this video :(
On my 2017 XC the only non-stock item is the lectron carburetor which performs well. On my 350 FX I have only the aftermarket fuel rail and 13t sprocket which does help with flameouts a bit. All the other “fixes” have either not changed performance Or made it worse, that’s just my experience, and I’ve spent A LOT of money. Like you said once before, the best upgrade is to just get out and ride and get better at it and understand how the motorcycle works.
nailed it (part about getting out on the bike and ride).
Great video. I had a similar problem with my bike, saw this, and put the longer reach plug in my 300 tpi bike and she runs great. Thanks for the information.
Well tks for this vid... yesterday after watching jeffs vid , i bought the iridium plug he said... now tomorrow im going back to the dealer again and change it for the oem plug... 😅
I think a lot of people just paid attention to the changing of plugs and not what he actually said in the video. Slavens specifically says potentially mistuned high compression engines.
I think people are giving him unnecessary grief.
No need to change the plug on a stock bike. I also expect the problem with the tpi bikes is that a lot of people who arent familiar with tuning a 2T are putting high compression heads on them and just riding them with no additional tuning. Depending on how and where you ride it may work but a lot of time it wont and youll get detonation. Its good to use an aftermarket ecu if you run a high compression head. Im using a GET ECU. Im running the BR7EIX with adjusted tuning.
Extended reach plugs run hotter than standard reach. With TPI the fuel ratios are pretty much spot on so the plug has to be able to ignite the charge from idle to wound out tight. A cold plug will not properly ignite the mixture. You don't notice it at low speed because you don't expect much power at those revs. You don't notice it at high speed because even though the motor might be down on power there is enough for you not to notice a 16/th of a turn on the throttle. However, in the mid range you are expecting a little power for a little twist and it is just not there. Run those cold plugs in that range for a long time and you will foul them. The other thing to do is to look for the milk chocolate coloration that is produced on a plug of proper heat range. I will be dollars to donuts the extended reach plugs come out milk chocolate color and the regular reach plugs will come out like dark chocolate, if not black and oily.
Kyle, I have tune a lot of bikes for enduro guys in Puerto Rico unsing a Dyno. Both 4 and 2 strokes. And I used ktm tuning tool. Just by looking at those spark plugs I can tell is runing on the rich side. Just enough to foul those plugs. Ktm should fix it with a reflash. And this is common in new models. They will have to change the maps till it accommodates for better riding. A/f is still the same on any bike. And to complicate it a little is Open loop.
I still dont understand why the amateurs are trying to tune their stock engines which are running good enough on the amateur level even good for pro-riders.Sorry but it makes me laugh.If anything the suspension know-how and tunning make me the big sense.
true. Sometimes when I see on videos that someone bought new ktm 300 and then put another few thousands because he need more power :) tis bike is sick on stock there is no need of any additional power. Suspension like you said (sag, springs for weight, optional setting)
Your right but some people like to tinker with shit
High compression helps at high altitudes.
But i cant climb a verticle hill at 5 rpm. I need milled high compression head, ported & polished cylinder to maximum spec, bored out $800 smart carb, nitro race fuel, 500hp shot of nitrous, and a turbo/super charger. Then my ktm300 will make it. But for some strange reason my gas mileage is not all that great
@@cheddarshredder6572 My front door is 9600 feet above sea level high compression heads make a huge difference and sell the stock carb and put on the Lectron only sets you back 200$ and you get awesome low end and no messing with jets. when i ride lower than 6000 feet it takes 20 minutes to pop in a different head insert with the s-3 lots of versatility. oh yea 30% better fuel economy with the Lectron
You never specified the years, this is not true for the 2020 and 2021 bikes, they all call for BR7ES as stock/standard.
4 Years later with the TBI Bikes in now I have the TC125 Fouled the new Plug for putting on green map maybe I should consider getting a older spark plugs as they don’t have the current ones in stock yet 😪
It seems to me (from personal experience) that in order to increase the compression on a KTM 2 stroke, you are either placing a *thinner* base gasket on the motor (below the cylinder), OR putting on a high compression head, which simply reduces the volume of the space in the cylinder head, thus increasing the compression of the motor.
So by this simple logic, if you INCREASE the compression of your bike (with either a thinner base gasket or a high compression head), and you are obviously not changing the stroke of the piston, then you ARE simply bringing the tip of the spark plug closer to the piston, putting it more at risk of impact with the piston, and the damage that comes with that.
So I agree, increasing the compression while running the stock extended tip plug, would make you more likely to grenade your motor. But if you run it as a stock motor, as Kyle is, then it should be fine for the life of the bike, just liek the KTM R&D team designed it to be.
Good points DBC.
OEM is best, maybe if you start altering your bikes like Slavens does, then some some tweaks are necessary but the engineering KTM does is thorough.
From the info I gathered the projected nose holds more heat at low rpm but will cool faster as air/fuel flow go up. Trials bike's run them.
NEVER EVER RUN AN IRIDIUM PLUG UNLESS THE MANUFACTURER SPECIFYS IT.
Iridium Plugs were specifically designed to last at least 100K miles in a stock AUTOMBILE.
Iridium Plugs have a critical Heat Range,
they DO NOT conduct heat nearly as well as a COPPER Spark Plug.
Iridium Plugs may easily start glowing and cause Pre-Ignition and/ or Detonation
which can quickly blow a hole in your piston, or " stick" the piston in the bore.
The manufacturer recommend plug IS NOT appropriate for racing.
For racing, you will need the factory style plug, BUT, it needs to be 1 to 2 Heat-Ranges COOLER,
and, if you are running a higher than stock compression ratio, AND racing,
you may need to go even 3 to 4 Heat-Ranges COOLER.
Cooler plugs will definitely foul easier, but if you are racing, you are checking or replacing
the plugs on a regular basis anyway.
No matter WHAT type of riding you are doing,
the BEST plug will ALWAYS BE A COPPER-CORE plug,
they have the widest Heat- Range, and are the SAFEST, and most forgiving style of plug.
For all-out tweaked racing engines, a "Surface-Gap" plug may be a good solution for engine safety.
Surface-Gap plugs were originally designed for 2-stroke Outboard Motors,
they do not have a heat range, they are very cold, and self cleaning, BUT,
they do require a very high output ignition system, which you may, or may not have.
Iridium Plugs are just ASKING for trouble in a high performance engine.
.
.
I recently purchased a 2021 Ktm 300 xcw tpi and came with a BR7ES..
It was braking up on bottom end
Pulled spark plu out and .... surprise!!
It was the BR7ES CALLED dealership up and told me that’s the plug they should run.
I told the to look up by the vin and really check what plug that bike gets...
Came back and told me I was right!
Gave me the stock plug bike now runs like a champ
The manufacturers do way more testing than the average Joe, before they sell a product. If they call for it then why would you change it. I understand after mods are made but for stock, manufacturers recommendations are the best.
My 2022 GasGas EC300 says in the manual that the standard plug is the BR7ES. So maybe something has changed.
Sooo... My 2022 300 xcw came factory with the BR7ES.
Yesterday I went through a deep hole and fouled the plug. My dealer told me to use the ZGR7GI-13G.
Will see how it runs today.
22 te300i's manual says BR7ES. Not sure what's in the bike from new yet.
Thanks man. I was going to try the plugs but was really nervous about it. Iridium gap was much smaller than the stock plug. Seemed wrong. Gapping the new plug would put quite a bend on the plug.
Thanks again.
You and Jeff both have good intentions. Video was great.
Great stuff here. I also like both other vid guys you speak of in this tutorial. I am assuming you are only talking about the TPI or FI model bikes for this longer reach plug? Also what are your thoughts on running the BR8EIS plug? I have heard from others that the carb bikes run better. Not sure if you know or not. I'm going to try it. I have not added compression to my engine and while using the Lectron carb, the BR7ES plug is running very lean here in southern AZ at about 4000'. I've talked with Lectron until I was blue in the face and they actually did a rebuild on the carb for me.
Another option may be the bpr7es that is also extended tip not as extended as the oem plug tho. May be worth a shot if someone is looking for a lower cost replacement.
Bravo. Well done.
Great film kyle,it's been worrying me about slavens advise,standard plug in standard bike,makes sense! Thanks for sharing.
Awesome video! I have a 300 tpi and i plan on running the stock plug as well.
Hahahahahaha I typed my previous message like 1 minute into the video and indeed you know about Tokyo Off-road. Lol.
Slightly off topic, but iridium is a waste if money unless it's going in a fuel injected four stroke. They're designed for longevity, not performance. Best performance you can get is a copper plug, but they have the shortest lifespan. I run copper and change it once or twice per season depending on how many hours I ride.
My 2021 comes stock with a BR7ES. They did end up making the switch.
My 2021 250Xc calls for a NGK BR 7 ES, thats what the 2021 manual says, the the parts guide for my year and model, I pulled the plug to look at it after a few hours riding and its indeed a NGK BR 7 ES.
I asked parts for a spare and they gave me a NGK ZGR 7 GI , I'm taking it back next week when I go up to buy my front Tubliss Setup.
By the way the NGK ZGR 7 GI part no 55439193000 was over $20 and the plug thats in my bike is only about $3.
For what it's worth the service manual for a 2019 250 or 300 XC W calls for the NGK ZGR 7 GI that you are talking about , The 2021 XC W are calling for NGK BR 7 ES just like my 250 XC.
There must have been some changes to the bikes this year. It runs super good with the plug it came with the NGK BR 7 ES.
Getting a bit complicated when ya get KTM dealer parts people confused about the plug your KTM takes?
Note: My Experience as a Mechanic, I've been a Mercedes Benz Technician since 1995
The extended reach plug will work in a high compression engine... my bike is 12.0:1 compression (4t) and uses that style plug and so do other bikes that run 13.5:1 compression. The biggest factor is the reach (the head it’s designed for) and heat range of the plug which will effect the combustion of the fuel. Basically run the plugs recommended for the engine.....
Man that blows my mind to hear you have never fouled a plug. I bought a used 97 suzuki 125 and im fouling plugs like crazy. If im running a track im fine i get into the trails and im fouling em. Bumped my fuel mix up to 40 to 1 but still fouling. Trying to chase the problem its a real hassle.
Also increased compression ration with extended plug.
i have been thinking these cheap plugs were my problem,i just ordered the original iridium.from what i pick up in these vids also backs up my thoughts.
Late to the party on this one, and I don't know what Mr. Slavens is claiming, but the manufacturer spends lots of time developing these engines, and if the manufacture is using a longer spark plug, they are using a longer spark plug for a reason. Once again, I have not seen the video and I don't know what problem he claims that fixes, but I'm gonna trust the manufacture on this now. The only other issue may be the brand of plug they're using may have had a batch of problems or something that may have created a problem, but fixing the problem is not going in and putting in a shorter spark plug, it would be replacing it with something equivalent, just once again, tons of people out there, claiming they know more than the manufactures. No yes I understand there are performance parts that are better than the manufacture there are things you can do to your bike to make it better without manufactured parts, but they use those parts for a reason, and a lot of it is reliability, most people buying a bike today are not going balls to the walls racing on a professional level at an MX track. Hence reliability is more important to them than all our sheer every little ants of power they can get out of it and that's the way most bikes are made today for more reliability.
Just to throw some gasoline on this dumpster fire:
2022 TE300i manual says ... BR7ES (non iridium)
Nice video as always Kyle 👍 i have noted that i am using more and more OEM parts. I can understand why people sometimes chose ATF-parts if it is a big price difference and you are shorte on cash. I think when it comes to engine parts, OEM is the right way.
Kyle is the man, Jeff is the man. Jeff is an old school pro of the Moto industry and has taught you all very much knowledge.
Hey man, i watch your videos alot and and i put you in high regards, i need some assistance from you, can you please suggest me what spark plug can i use for my ktm85sx 2022? Since the stock ones are not availble here in the UAE, any other alternate? How about br9ecm or br9eix
Please suggest
Top Video!!! I would like to ask you a little question. What a spark plug reference would you advise me to put in my ktm 50 sx 2016? advise the model that the bike brings or is there a spark plug reference that works better?
I am not a certified mechanic but have worked on vehicles and bikes since I was older enough to hold a wrench. I am not a fan or the iridium plugs. The center electrode is too narrow and suffers greatly with any erosion, which all do very slowly. The older style gives more mass to be eroded, lasting longer. I find on cars that of course accumulate miles much faster than a dirt bike, that the electrodes are eroding to the point of triggering CEL with a misfire code with as little as 30k miles. My last plug change showed that the gaps had grown from 0.43 to 0.77 in 30k miles. Also I really dont buy into all the recent spark plug "advancements" like iridium and multiple side electrodes. Just like shaving razors you would think that you need 5 blades with a comfort strip to shave your face. I still use single blade disposables multiple times before discarding and I dont look like Freddy Krueger. Spark is a spark and a spark goes boom. I think there is a lot of quackery and hype to get folks to overpay for plugs and have dealers replace them more often and some of these new cars you need a ASE PhD to do a simple plug change. $$$$ Ok I will put my foil hat back on and disappear into the ether. But hey I will try a extended reach / standard electrode one in the 500exc if it give me more POWERRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!
You would never think a plug could change the way it goes so much . Just been a spark . My son just fouled the plug 2024 ktm 125 sx 4hrs . He's not high reving this bike . A third into the powerband . NGK BRIOECMVX . 40 TO 1 OIL MIX . Can I try a BR10ECM ??? They are cheeper .
Thanks Kyle, I had watched Jeff's video and picked up on the compression comment as well but I purchased four BR7EIX plugs from Amazon anyway. None of the local shops carrying them should have been another clue.
They are still new in the box and will remain that way Until I can determine if they can be used in our Son in laws 2000 250 EXC or my buddies high compression Lectron bikes ( I must agree with the high compression Lectron boys, their bikes rip compared to my injected bikes however rip has never been my friend in the deep dark woods).
Tokyo off road next stop.
I learned how to jet a carburetor from some old boys from Orofino Idaho and we never experienced any fouling after that, just elevation change jetting.
I love my 300i better than my old 250i. I will not go back to a carburetor unless they make me. They can only get better.
Did you try the extended plug in your XC? MY 2023 XC is fouling plugs and wondering if this might be a fix
Informative as always
I look at it like this the engineers at ktm know a lot more and have a lot deeper pockets when it comes to r&d. Also if you have a different head with a thinner gasket I can see where the longer plug would be a problem but stock no.
Ye oldie TS185 Suzuki also used a projected tip plug ( BP7ES from memory ) and didn't respond that well to B7ES 's ; and 40 + years later the same confused looks ...
Really ?
Jeff Slavens offers great videos and advice.
Much of the time, yes he does.
The 23 ktm xc-w came with br7es. Did ktm change something in the piston shape?
I have a 2020 KTM EXC 300 TPI (European Version of the XCW). To my surprise, it came stock with an NGK ZGR7G1 (even though the manual says BR7ES). I installed a brand new BR7ES spark plug (after 36 hours) and the bike runs pretty bad compared with how it ran with the ZGR7G1. I am no expert but the difference is noticeable. I like it better with the ZGR7G1 it came with so I am going back to it. Thanks Kyle for this video and the reference to Tokyo off road's video.
It's probably a 2019 bike that was sold in 2020. Check the frame and engine numbers.
Interesting Kyle, sorry if a bit of info went in one ear and out the other but is this an issue on both carb and tpi or is this only happening on the tpi bike. Recently got myself a new 18 250 exc carb , it has a standard reach plug and it hasn't been running very well, didn't question it as it's what the manual reccomends
Dbikekid this issue is only with the TPI bikes
TPI Bikes only on this one.
When the BR7EIX plug was used was it gapped according to the stock plug in the manual at .051" or gapped at .028" as recommended by Slavens?
I know you stated "gapped according to spec" but want to be sure. I decided to try this plug in my 2018 250 TPI Husky and it runs fine. I did put in Jeff's idle screw and closed up my air screw. Is it possible the BR7EIX plug works fine because I am running a richer fuel mixture.
My bike came with the NGKBR7ES in it, Brand new 2023 gas gas EC250, 0 hours 0 hours. Do I get rid of it for a longer plug., I think I'll stick with the stock plug.
I can confirm what you said . I just had problem with my new KTM 250 2020 after 20 hours of running, my spark NGK ZGR7GI 13G not able to power on the engine and I had to change it temporary with a spare sparks BR7ES just mount it temporary . Seems that my bike running totally strange with this spark , and I feel that losing the power , even the sound is quite different ... So definitely I will change it with the stock one. Now I have difficulties to find a new ZGR7GI seems that there is nowhere on stock even deposit.
Great videos. I often share these useful stuffs to our Hungarian enduro Klub. Greetz.
Did this change in 2020?
Kyle, do you have a video out yet commenting on the over heating problem on the new tpi bikes ?
He also doesn’t sell No1 pistons for the tpi (and possibly others) as he says you should always replace with a No2 after something daft like 40hrs. The ktm manual says otherwise and if you stuff a No2 piston in a barrel that’s not big enough you’re just going to accelerate wear and as there’s no No3 piston you don’t have many options left!
You should always take measure of the cylinder to fit correct size. It's not true that you'd go one size during the replacing. Depending on how you treat your bike and ride style. I most of cases you can go with the same size on first replacement and even second if measure match manual. What I found that for KTM 300 (don't know how it's in new one, I'm talking about 2015>). Pistons deliver Vertex but sizing on OEM and Vertex is totally Different. Selection A from Vertex is still bigger than Sel B from OEM. So long story short you can have 5 selections by going from OEM to Vertex.
@@adi1233 I stand corrected, he says 25+ hours! This is straight off the Slavens site: "All 2 stroke pistons are size B (KTM calls it Group 2). We recommend the B kit for all engines that have 25+ hours or 500+ miles"
@@JayGee6996 If it's what he said, I think he has some mental issues. 25h on bike for some riders is in month. So changing cylinder after every 50? Maybe I'll ask him to send me these cylinders :) If you change piston without measure you can damage cylinder. He shouldn't say such things. if hes doing so, it's his problem. KTM Manual should be here the bible :)
Anytime you change the reach of a plug you change the heat range. If it's a shorter plug it's not getting the spark at the spot the bike manufacture designed it. Also the longer it is the hotter the tip the plug will run and the shorter the cooler the tip would run. Maybe when the motor was good and hot it ran ok with the shorter plug.
What do you mean by "gapped them to spec"? Torque wrench?