6 Things to NEVER say to Christians
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- Опубликовано: 29 июн 2024
- 6 Things to NEVER say to Christians
Hemant Mehta (www.friendlyatheist.com, / hemant )
1) Don't make up simplistic reasons for why they believe
2) Don't dismiss religion so casually
3) Don't assume there's one correct form of Christianity
4) Don't say religious people are stupid.
5) Don't say religion is a virus or mental illness.
6) Don't say Tax the Churches.
Atheists, Please Stop Saying These Things
by Ed Brayton
freethoughtblogs.com/dispatche...
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I love how this guy is fair, not just bashing Christians, but talking about what atheists should do as well.
amen
Disco Badger HAHAHAHAHAHA
@@carlosavila4290 xD
@@carlosavila4290 LOL
same
One problem I see from both Christians and Atheists is that instead of having a genuine discussion we both have a habit of falling into the same talking points, that's where many of these communication problems come in. Instead of reading off a script in our heads lets all try to have productive back and forth discussion with Theists.
The thing is, the religious only have a few arguments, which are easy to debunk. So they do become boring talking points.
Indeed. I have a hard time now having a general discussion with them. Just two days ago I had a flock arguing the silly points of 'why are there still apes?' But then later that evening I got in to a real discussion with one Christian. Although I was a bit of a snarky ass to him at first he gave it back to me and we actually laughed about the whole thing and asked each other questions.
Great food for thought. I'm guilty of saying many of these things and will strive to overcome and stop taking the easy way out or making the easy argument.
Yes, that is what every arguments boils down to, because that is usually the key difference between atheists(A) and christians(C). Usually, A use more evidence-based approach to the world, while C use more faith-based. That is called epistemology, and CAN NOT be changed through arguments, reason or generally anything you can throw at an opponent, only opponent himself can change it. So, the only thing you can do is give them food for thought, make them think for themselves, and eventually(this can take years) become atheists. For more on this topic, read Peter Boghossian's 'Manual for creating Atheists'.
@@SevinChurch There are still apes because God created every creature according to their kind and ape kind and human kind are two separate kinds, but scientists for whatever the reason choose to merge the two together, but such a thing is wrong to do.
If it was actually possible for ape kind to become human kind then eventually ape kind would be phased out of existence due to them becoming human kind, but such a thing doesn't happen.
I am an 80 yr old atheist. Your logical conclusions are a great education for me. Thank you. Roger from Las Vegas.
u still alive?
@@Pomegrandmate bruh
@@jgordan775 he dead
@@Pomegrandmate wtf man
@@Pomegrandmate lmaooo 😂
Not atheist personally but man i have mad respect for you. i have encountered a handful of atheists but none so respectful and others-minded as you. thank you dude :)
vanessa benoit only thing i dont understand is why you'd seem to care so much about me coming to "your side". i'd side with agnosticism before atheism personally. so idk, maybe you should also not mention us coming to your side because that kind of reinforces the us vs them mentality that i think you are trying to dismantle. k thanks :)
Yeah he's a breath of fresh air. Very few Atheists like him.
vanessa benoit Most atheists are agnostic.
wallybal1297 technically yes.
wallybal1297 How?
Even though as a Christian I have a different world view than you, I really appreciate your respect to the religious community! I wish there were more people who had the same insight and understand as you.
I completely agree with you. I am also a Christian and recently I’ve had conversations with atheists that were not understanding at all. I was just called crazy for my beliefs just the other day. The important thing is that both sides need to respect one another.
I'm Totally Neutrality
I'm not Atheist or
Agnostic or Theist
or any other
labeled brand name
@@jillianh7565 really u guys call us sinners
@@aaravkallingal5088 We are all sinners, that includes Christians. I am no better than anyone and vice versa.
@@aaravkallingal5088 I mean yea but they call themselves sinners as well, they think all people are sinners so your not really special
I disagree somewhat with you on the "religion is a choice" bit. I understand your point, but I do think that in most cases it isn't really a choice. I mean, if you are raised in a religious family, and a religious society, when did you actually get to make that choice? I know I never felt like I did, it was more something that I just new I was because that's how my culture was, I never really chose it. But you are right in that I did choose to leave it though.
+James Sarvan Somebody might have introduced you to a religion, but it is still a choice whether you will believe it and live by it. Otherwise I could say that "atheism isn't a choice" if you happened to be born in an atheist household, but certainly it is a choice whether you will be an atheist or if you will adopt christianity, islam or buddhism or whatever else sometime when you are mature enough to make that conscious decision of which path you will follow.
Matheas It's not really a neutral/fair choice since you are taught you're entire life that it is right and that you can't question it. Atheism is all about questioning, so you can't really compare the two.
James Sarvan Nobody has told me I can't question what I've been taught (although people would probably be disappointed if I did leave my faith), but even if it had been the case that I had been told not to question it, that doesn't mean I wouldn't question it. Regardless of our beliefs or what we've been taught, everybody has a mind of their own and the ability to question and choose what they will believe in.
If what you say had been true then there would be no former christians, and yet a whole lot of atheists are former christians who were brought up christians but eventually questioned what they had been taught and made up their own mind through questioning and criticizing the faith that they had been brought up with.
Matheas But most people are. Maybe not always word for word, but when you are told that something is the ONLY WAY that things are, then you are not supposed to question it, they leave you no room to do it.
No, as I said in my original post, it's a choice to LEAVE the faith, but not to enter it. I was baptized when I was a baby. I went to sunday school the first time before I could even form real sentences. It was not a choice. It was taught to me as truth.
James Sarvan Do you think that you being baptized is what made you a christian? Do you think that just because you were taken to sunday school, you were a christian? To actually believe that Jesus is the son of God, to repent and freely choose to follow in his footsteps is what makes you a christian. A whole lot of people have been baptized, went to sunday school and done every christian tradition when they had no clue what it was even about, that didn't make them christians. It would be the same thing as an atheist child being raised by atheist parents who think that atheism is the truth and that there is no God. Telling their child since he was a kid that there is no God, naturalism is the only way and that life ultimately has no objective purpose. Is it the words of the parents that make the child an atheist? No, it is the child's own beliefs that make him or her an atheist, and human beings can think for themselves and question that which they have been taught. It is one thing to be indoctrinated, it is another thing to come to a conclusion on your own, and it is this conclusion that you make on your own that determines what you believe, not your parents or your friends or your upbringing.
I am Catholic. I respect everyone's choice to believe what they want. As long as they are friendly!
Agreed.
Keep preaching!
Same here buddy
It's nice to see there's good Christians out there...I'm often approached by the unsavory bunch
@@nathanlloyd774 I know, it's disappointing and kinda puts you off right? But that is why it is said to follow god and do your best to be Christ like, put your faith in god. The christians that are so unsavory as you say are the ones who's faith is not strong enough. A lot of people follow christianity as a means of just "making sure they won't go to hell", as an easy way out. But they usually pick out what they want to believe and follow, then do as they please even if it's straight up against the word of god. In the bible, that is the kind of behavior that Satan encourages. You take the word of god and bend it to your own will, or force your will upon someone using the word of god. This kind of behavior is demonstrated and encouraged by Satan in the bible. A great example here:
Luke 4: 9-12
Satan brings Jesus to the top of the temple in Jerusalem and says to him, "If you are the son of god, throw yourself down from here. For it is written: He shall give his angels charge over you, to keep you, and in their hands they shall bear you up, lest you dash your foot against the stone."
Such behavior is what I hear a lot of christians doing. Twist the meaning of the word and feed it out to work for them, not for god.
Hope that made any sense, and hope it maybe spoke to you in some way?
More Atheists needs to watch this video, while more Christians needs to watch his other video regarding what Christians shouldn't say to Atheists. I am loving some of your videos. Keep it up.
I'm a christian, and I must say that I'm very glad to meet an atheist online that at least shows respect to the religious. Even though I believe in god and you don't, I can still respect you for not being rude like Cult of Dusty. If only ALL atheists showed this kind of respect. Then probably people would listen to them.
Travy CrankdAT
Wow, that was rude. And guess what? I'm not going to insult you back, thus proving the incredible truth that we christians are truly moral people. Sorry, but you can't say the same thing about yourself after making a remark like that.
*****
Sorry, but you didn't get what I was saying at all. You're obviously one of those people that flock to Dusty. Anyone who has the ability to think for themselves would see that what I said was not disrespectful. The only disrespect that Travy got came from his own words, not mine. What he said tells nothing of me, but everything about him. And by the way, while I do believe homosexuality is wrong, I am still accepting of homosexuals and treat them with the same common decency I show everyone else. That's the beauty of Christianity.
If you've never heard of Dusty, what atheist do you flock to like the mindless sheep you clearly are? Second, I believe homosexuality wrong simply because the bible says so. Who am I to argue with the lord? Third, I never said that common decency is a trait EXCLUSIVE to christians, did I? I bid you farewell, common sheep.
***** No more holding back and feeling sorry for theists!
That’s their problem *****
I disagree with quite a few things on this list. To name one, I will talk about how you said that churches should not be taxed. With that, you assume that the main point of a church is charity. That is usually not the case. So, I believe that churches should be taxed. Then, if a church wants to set up a particular charity that it is affiliated with, then that specific charity would not be taxed. It's like if I have a job and I donate 10% of that to charity, does that mean that my entire income should not be taxed?...or does it mean that only my donation should give me a tax exemption? For anyone who believes in taxes at all, I believe they would say that the person/church should be taxed, and only its donations to charity should not be taxed.
I have to argue against your point, because the reason that churches are tax exempt is not because they are charitable, but for the reason that they are non-profit organizations.
Schools that are non-profit get the same tax exemptions, and my best friend's high school, Serendipity Center, is a prime example of a non-charity non-profit with tax exemptions.
Public schools, like Centennial High school, from which I graduated, can be for-profit or non-profit. The for-profit schools are NOT tax exempt as organizations, and therefore the people who own the school have to pay taxes on it.
Essentially, if a church was for-profit as an organization, it would be taxed.
Instead of trying to tax a non-profit organization, we should instead, like was previously explained, force them to report where their donations and other sources of income are used, and for what purposes.
Under the premise that we keep track of their use of income, as with all non-profit organizations, if they use their income for things they shouldn't, they would be properly shut down just like any other non-profit.
This argument was brought to you by an atheist with a dislike for ambiguity.
高梨六道 My question would be, what exactly does "non-profit" mean? If a pastor buys a car with money from the church, then that is obviously profit, right? But what if they say that his Mercedes is necessary for him to get around and help the organization? How about when a priest gets free accommodations? Usually, people pay for accommodations, so that is also profit, right? To me, "Non-profit" means that you are not getting a monetary benefit. You only have just enough to continue to run things in order to further a positive cause. And I don't see how churches qualify. If a church can be a non-profit organization and pay for food, accommodations, and cars for ministers, then why cant I claim my own job as not for profit, but allow the money I make to pay for food, accommodations, and cars, too? Maybe I just don't know about the nuances of the law, but then again, I think that the law itself is probably misguided and should be changed.
高梨六道
Public schools are for the public good, churches aren't.
Totally agree. Churches should be taxable just like regular companies. Most of them, especially in the US, are in it for the profit anyway. I'd even say they should be taxed *higher* than corporations, as corporations often provide something useful that people need or want, while churches use coercion and blatant lies in order to fool people into paying them. If it was up to me, unethical companies like that should be taxed higher in order to promote a sound, honest business environment.
Ronny Ager-Wick - Right you are!
Churches are frauds and should be prosecuted as such. If I sell "magic water" and convince you it will cure your cancer, I could go to prison for decades. If I put on a robe, stick some religious symbols in plain view, I can "give" you a "blessed, red, prayer string" to cure your cancer for a "free will offering" and get away scot free.
And, the "charitable" work that churches do isn't a bit charitable. It's advertising, purely and simply. It exists only to gain converts to the religion. It's as if Budweiser claimed tax exemption on the money it spends on Super Bowl ads and the costs of raising the Clydesdales.
If that isn't possible, the charity doesn't happen. After the 2002 tsunami, many Christian churches in the US sent "aid" to the victims. When the Muslim government said, "Thank you ever so much. We really appreciate your kindness and your aid but you may not preach Christianity. If you do, you'll be arrested." many of the churches withdrew their people AND their aid. They took their respective balls and went home.
I, myself, read on the websites of some of these churches, long screeds about the ingratitude of the Muslims in "turning away help". I also read comments by members of these churches praying that "Jesus would soften their hard Muslim hearts." and allow the "good work" to be carried on.
Christian charity is advertising.
As a christian, I have got mad respect for this guy.
@YHWH>>:Only fools say in their heart “There is no God”. -Psalm 14:1
I am buddhism. :-)
*Sorry my english is bad*
First time I knew about Christian religious was a few papers at the front door of our house. It was about the birth of Jesus, how he saved the ill people and revive the death one. Ok I read it but I am still a buddhism.
Second time was in my first year of university. Two girls came to me and my friend( whose family is christian but she is atheist) and asked 'can we have a few minute.' We don't know them and what they want. But we said 'ok'. Then it happened. They asked our religion.I knew what they want to talk to us at that moment. I proudly answered my religion and my friend lied them & said she is buddhism too because she don't wanna listen about it. Those two girls didn't care about our religion and didn't have respect. They continued to talk about Jesus and their religion and tried to convince us. I really dislike that manner. I though 'why do Christian promote and convince their religion so much? This is 21th.(don't mean to be rude).
The third time was in my third year. It was an exam day and I was stting on a platform and doing revision for exam. A girl came to me and asked 'do you have an exam?. She clearly saw that I am studying with that stressful look. I answered Yes and she asked 'can I speak to you for a few minutes.'
I couldn't believe she said that. I was really upset and said 'hell no'.
Do I look like someone that they can convince easily or something???
I have many Christian friends. I don't dislike Christian. But I dislike that promoting and convincing other who believe other religions. Look I am a Buddhism and I love & believe my religion so much. Don't try to convince me anymore.
Nicholas No
I wil never convince other.
Everyone has their right, their choice. So let them choose what they believe.
Chandra Angela I'm sorry about your past with religious people. I'd like to learn about Buddhism and other religions but I don't know where to start can you help me please.
The Weird Fangirl I am sorry. I think there are books about religions. How should I say? Umm I know it but I don't know how to teach or explain someone else. I am really bad at explaining. You should start at studying their fundamental logic. What is it? What do they do? What is the difference? etc... Books are the best. They can't convince you.
Chandra Angela its buddhist
paul18 parreno ok my religion is buddhism. I am buddhist.
Hey, sorry man, but I'm an atheist and I don't really give a damn what other people are. If you're a Christian, good for you, if you're an atheist, good for you, if you're Jewish, good for you. I don't think people should try to force other people to share the same beliefs whether that's an atheist trying to make a Christian atheist or a Christian trying to make an atheist Christian it's all the same whether one side ios right or not because it's that persons opinion and none of your business. Sure if someone is interested in why I am what I am I'll tell them but if not, keep your shiz to yourself.
Why is everyone here a minecraft hater? and WHY does everyone say AN minecraft hater??!!
Bennett Tofner if your an minecrafter, that's okay, too!
I like that. I wish more people had your point of view, the world would be a better place.
Thanks! :)
Ya same here I get myself into trouble though cuz I'm curious on what others believe so people think I'm weird
A well done commentary, thank you. As a Christian I also truly appreciated your video, "15 things to NEVER say to an atheist."
Not even Christian, but I am religious. Thank you so much for this video. Very respectful!
HOW TO SOLVE THE ARGUING: Atheists should leave Christians alone about their religion and Christians should leave Atheists alone about their beliefs. Boom. Problem solved.
***** Which is sad since the solution is so simple lol.
You are 100 percent correct. Going back to what he said in number 1 "let's find out their beliefs and criticize that." Why criticize anyone's beliefs? I am a firm believer in everyone has the right to belive what they want to believe and my friends that are of other religions have that same belief. The world would be a lot better if everyone would just accept the fact that we are all different and have our own beliefs. This religious war amongst each other would stop.
Best post I've seen in ages, brother.
Is the certainty on their part that God doesn't exist not a belief?
Boom.
No.
It doesn't work like that.
There is NO reason churches are tax-exempt. They should be taxed, I want them to be taxed.
If a church wants to be a tax-exempt organisation, they should apply for NON-PROFIT status, like EVERY OTHER ORGANIZATION!
I'm sure someone would play the "separation of church and state" card. I can imagine that person claiming that taxing the church would be building a bridge from government to church.
BTC Fanboi no, it's making churches equal to everyone else.
A church needs to follow the same rules as any other registered social group.
BTC Fanboi That bridge has already been built. From lobbyist to pastors telling their church members to vote for a specific politician to further that faiths agenda. So if they want to cross that bridge and get involved with politics then they should be expected to pay the toll.
Nerobyrne "If a church wants to be a tax-exempt organisation, they should apply for NON-PROFIT status, like EVERY OTHER ORGANIZATION!" Most of them already *did* apply & *are* registered thus.
"A church needs to follow the same rules as any other registered social group." That's literally what Hemant said in the video.
CaptHayfever no, they are not registered as non-profit organizations.
They are registered as churches, and thus get preferential treatment when they apply for tax-exempt status. (see Scientology)
There are rules churches must follow to retain their tax-exempt status. I simply want those rules enforced.
I may not be religious but I try to respect people and their beliefs. The exception being when they attack someone because of their religion. Besides that though... No harm in believing that there is something more.
I guess I feel that way because my whole family is catholic though.
... Shhhh don't tell them.
i respect the people but not their beliefs, I think there is a problem with religion when they try to enforce their faith in schools and work
*****
Uh no. I specifically said "Unless they are attacking people because of their religion."
*****
Read my comment.. It says that.
Well it says "The exception being..." but it means the same thing...
why?
Pie God
so far, I've only read the first scentence in your comment, and I'll i have to say is...
*Why can't there be more people like YOU???*
I love this! I am so past the "angry atheist" phase and just want to get along. These are great things that needed to be said.
I'm gonna you use the feminist logic here: Oh, so you support slavery, handicapped discrimination, discrimination of women, etc.
@@1nv15BL3 Bloody hell?
@@IronWarrior_69 Don't worry, I'm not like that in real life, I was just using the feminist analogy of: "if you don't support this group, then you are against it".
If you believe in something ridiculous, then your belief deserves to be ridiculed. You have no right to a protected belief, especially if your belief goes against reason, logic, and evidence.
The problem I have with the whole "right christian wrong christian" thing is that most christians don't even follow most of the precepts in the bible, so in a sense, none of them are christians. So yeahhh. When I see one of the christians trying to stone someone for wearing polyester, then we may have found a candidate for a "TRUE" christian.
Ridiculing someone rather than disagreeing and debating it with them shows that you are prone to acting out your resentment in a childish manner. It also stems from the dangerous belief that you are better than them. Long story short, you are part of the problem.
Ahh I tired to debate it earlier, he admitted to not having done any relevant research. So obviously I'm the one being unreasonable. That makes tons of sense. Next time I need an intelligent comment, I'll come straight to you idiots. You guys obviously haven't been around from earlier and are just making comments on my last one. But hey what can I expect from children. They rush into something that they have no idea about and start commenting about it. Like they have any idea what is going on. If you would chastise me for not debating him, realize that I tried, go and read what was written, and see that he himself admits, he has nothing to offer. So yeahhh obviously a bot. You guys are just john come latelys who have no idea what they are talking about :) Have a nice life being blind.
Cortexsaga bro, Christian literally means follower of Christ, and correct me if I'm wrong but Jesus clearly said "let he who is without sin cast the first stone".
for the 1rst one I doubt the majority of christians have muslim or hindu or whatever parents, and for the majority if they grew up with a different religion they will believe that religion, that's how the humans work.
Most atheist know the bible more than most christians so I doubt that they put as much thought into their belief as you give them credit for
Exactly what I was going to say. Thx
Maybe that's true statistically, but that doesn't mean you can apply that to the Individual.
Hat 'n'cloak
But it means that you have a very strong justification for assuming that about the Christian or the Muslim that you are talking to. While assuming is not something I myself would promote per se...
For one, that thing about atheists knowing more about religion than the religious was only taken using a very small test group in a few select cities. I guarantee the average atheist would not know more about Islam or Judaism than a person from the middle east. That claim as always bugged me because of the fact that it was never tested on a larger scale after it shows the results on a smaller scale. It just isn't fair to make that assumption. As with his 1st point it is wrong to make assumptions if you expect anyone to take you seriously.
I feel like this was an eye-opener to me. Thanks for the tips.
right right
agreed
christian here, so true. Great, amazing, pheonix-rising-from-the-ashes refreshing. we need to have some society where christians and atheist intellectually talk with peace. instead of the society of blatherskite's we all live in.
Ditty kong Go to parts of Europe where they have that figured out. As long as fundamentalists have a stranglehold on society, we can't have much intellectual debate, since they're mostly anti-intellectual.
KyleBuschPackFan that is really funny because some of us Christians think that the secular have a stranglehold on government. You would actually be surprised to hear that fundamentalist are actually intellectual, we just don't really believe in evolution or the big bang because it doesn't have any hard-hitting evidence, not that there isn't any evidence at all. true fundamentalist will actually go into the Greek or Hebrew translation to get the correct translation. (note: when i say fundamentalist, i mean " people who believe in the strict and literal translation" and not the arrogant and/or ignorant people in religion.
I belive in God because many things but the main reason is when I go to sleep and pray I get that feeling...I cant explain in but it feels like a "shield" that protects me while im sleeping...pls no hate coments we don't need them 😇
you're probably just paranoid
No 😊
Franko Zrilic yes because talking to yourself is not gonna help
I aint talking to myself it's not my fault that ur an atheist and don't believe in God 😊
I thought this channel was supposed to help athiests be more friendly to christians
Youre just making more of a bad view
Another one is "I'm an Atheist" They usually flip shit.
When it comes to "tax the church", I think that non-profits need to prove why they deserve to be tax exempt. If churches were to justify how the spend their money, then they get that benefit. For example, if they prove that a lot of their money goes toward non-missionary work, outreach programs, charities, etc sure give them the exemption. If, however, they are spending it on themselves in greedy ways, they don't deserve any exemption. And if they are using the money to fund or support political parties, then they should immediately get their exemption removed.
Im a christian myself but , it's always interesting to hear others opinions like yours . I respect your opinion though. Nice vids tho 👍
Christian here and I do agree.
I just wanted to thank you for this video. I am a very committed Christian, and I really appreciate the way you are promoting an attitude of kindness and a genuinely open mind from both sides of the equation. I absolutely love when people can respectfully and constructively disagree with each other, and I will be the first to say that when it comes to the Atheists vs. Christians mentality, there is fault on both ends. So thank you for trying to overcome some of those obstacles.
As far as something to add to the list, (and you sort of hinted at this a bit) I would say it's important to truly and genuinely listen to the logic behind the faith of an individual, especially when it comes to why he or she holds to specific, particularly controversial teachings of the Bible. (i.e. homosexuality and abortion. Let's not beat around the bush here, haha.) I won't get into here, as youtube debates never seem to be constructive, but I think that when an atheist listens to the reasoning behind specific beliefs people like myself hold, he or she can at least say "well, if you believe point A, I can see how you can believe point B without being a horrible person." Not saying it'll change your mind on anything, but it may help you to have a more genuine respect for that line of thought. :)
At 0:57;
I'm pretty sure that if they weren't told what to believe as children, they wouldn't go running around thinking that a middle-eastern zombie walked on water or that snakes can talk... just wanted to point that out.
They could be told judaism was true but then came to be christian because they thought jesus was god and not just a prophet or whatever.
people convert to Christianity all the time in adulthood, they just don't fully understand what their beliefs entail and that there are better explanations as to how we came to be than that a god did it.
The problem is you can't say a lot of things to people nowadays, especially religious ones, without offending them.
Which is why I've adopted the philosophy: "So you're offended... So fucking what."
Really, when you get right down to it, someone being offended changes absolutely nothing whenever it comes to a factual argument. Is you being offended supposed to make me more or less right? Hell no.
How damaged someone is by something you say doesn't change the facts of the matter.
Emotion doesn't change facts, but trying to instigate a fight is a terrible way of having a real conversation. The other person gets defensive and shuts out everything you're saying. Hell, it further entrenches the ideas they have to them because only assholes have the ideas you have, therefore they must be wrong. Which is dumb, but so are emotions.
You just changed my mind about taxing churches. Thank you for helping me understand the bigger picture about non-profits and about the need for accountability.
my wife wholeheartedly told me she believes im going to hell because im atheist. i think i laughed so hard she thought about divorcing me.
lmao religious people are stupid
like dude said. one question. who created this god?
trust me chick. after seeing the bigotry of religious people being racist. hating gays. knocking other religions. also clear stupidity i might add ive come to the conclusion that ur all retards. educate urself. stop being a follower and be a leader. stop being sheep. the fact that none of you idiots who claims religion will commit the acts of violence in the bible like sacrifices and such and freely claim it was for "god" just shows ur all fake. period. u have idiotic faith in something for 1. then u walk around feeling "proud" because u believe some nonexistent word. u keep doing what ur doing. ima keep doing what im doing. i know my knowledge trumps what ever ur claiming. so u keep being the less educated individual. the fact that people support bigotry sexism and racism then claim their are religious is why religion will forever be a joke to those that have actual sense of reality. u live in a false reality. have a nice day
and trust me. ive said the same thing to my wife
omg i hate when people are this religiously stupid.
I wish people, religious and otherwise, would stop talking about beliefs as a choice. Yes, I've thought through my beliefs, and so have religious people. That doesn't mean I "decided" god doesn't exist. My mind has foisted that conclusion on itself based on the evidence (or lack thereof) I see. I had to choice in the matter, even if free will exists.
Someone's been reading Sam Harris.
I agree; I think people can't really be blamed, in any real way, for their religious (or otherwise) beliefs. That just makes it that much more important for others, like ourselves, to change the minds of believers in as nice of a way as possible, instead of degrading them and being vitriolic.
It doesn't mean, however, that we can't be tough when we discuss the topic. There's a fine line, but I think it's possible to ride it. I think Seth Andrews is a good example of this. (edit: so is Hemant Mehta)
#forealatheistswag #defsnotsarcasm #PREECHIT
Belief is a choice. We put our thoughts into it and we unconsciously decide what is best to believe in. Seeing the world in a different light usually involves considering dialogue of new possibilities. There have been atheists who've become christians before and most definitely vice versa. Sure, we aren't consciously picking our beliefs but our mind is always leaning towards one thing that we decide we believe in.
But doesn't using the word "choice" or "decide" just muddle the definition? Outside of the context of beliefs, when do we ever talk about choices being an unconscious process? I agree that the unconscious part of the mind could be said to decide what the right answer probably is, but when we allow the word to be used that loosely, many religious people see that as an opportunity to use Pascal's Wager, or worse, simply insist that we "try to believe," which is totally fruitless for those that don't already believe.
Jeremy West I don't understand how you can have "unconscious choice". I'm not in control of my unconsciousness, and I kind of doubt anyone is; thus, where would the idea of "choice" come into play?
Belief is *not* a choice. Let's say you wanted to conduct an experiment: to wake up tomorrow determined to start believing in say, for example, Allah. Other than playing the role of a believer (talking the talk, etc), would you actually suddenly believe in Allah? Or course not. You have to be persuaded from external influences to change your mind.
Perhaps the issue is semantic; maybe we're not defining "choice" in the same way.
I would have to dispute that most Christians have thought long and hard about why they believe in Christianity; by and large, they follow the religion they were brought up with. Otherwise, you would expect to see a far more even distribution of religious faith across the population. There's a logical reason why the biggest religious bloc in this country is Christian, and I don't think it's because all of those believers out there weighed the various claims of other faiths and all objectively concluded that Christianity was correct.
I have to agree. I know of so many people who are devout Christians and say they believe every word of the Bible and have never read the entire thing.
Anyone can be found to have done this regardless of beliefs. On the flip side, I listen to an apologist who originally was atheist, only because I'm pretty sure he's actually examined what he believes and why. Gotta find an atheist who has put forth that much effort (whether he be a convert or not) and cross reference them sometime...
Its great to see a strong, respecting atheist on the internet right now. Tolerance and respect are great things that are sadly lacking in this world.
true words
It's hard to respect morons though who believe in bullshit
@@chrismccartney2780 You are the reason this video was made.
@@existing3628 thank you
Respect is earned, having not had my personal atheism respected by Christians when I was younger in the words of their nasty book of bad news, you reap what you sow. And there's a world of difference between tolerance and state sponsorship. They could just do their charitable deeds without any religious influence as they should otherwise it's not really charity, just trying to brown nose their way into heaven. Why should I tolerate their nonsense in a place it doesn't belong? Faith is not a virtue.
Ok so I am really nervous right now. I came out to my mom as an atheist a couple of minutes ago. I sent her a short text to tell her I'm an atheist and a few good reasons why I don't believe in christianity or god anymore. She hasn't replied yet but I'm nervous because not only is she a pastor, but she usually gets defensive whenever I try to question religion even a little. I was tired of her religious texts and how she kept thinking that Jesus would solve all our problems. Now I'm really seeing this channel as a support group. Religion is such a nasty thing. Bringing families apart. Fingers crossed for what happens next! The thing is, my mom is not one of those scammers that just want to steal money from people. She deeply loves Jesus. I hope she will still love me. I am actually in tears right now. And I feel really dumb for telling her that while I'm still living in her house. Fuck me.
ShpookyBear369 good for you. Especially with an extremely Christian mother, that was very courageous😉 hopefully she'll be accepting of your choices. Good luck👍🏻
Kaitlyn Luba I am so lucky. She read my messages and then she came to my room and told me that she loves me and that she'll pray for me. I'm just glad she didn't tell me to leave or something like that. It went a lot better than I thought it would. Thanks for your encouragement.
ShpookyBear369 must've been a little awkward when she said she pray for you but I guess it could've been a lot worse!😂 I'm happy she reacted well👍🏻
how is religion tearing apart families
stacy gilbert um....I just said it....because I was scared that my mom would pick "Jesus" (an imaginary creature) over her own living daughter!
Not too many atheists are getting into heated religious discussions online with the benign Mr. Rogers type of Christian.
Thank you Hemant, you've really opened my eyes to my militant approach to atheism. I was always a strict black and white christian, and that has kind of spilled over into my atheism, and I see now that I've broken quite a few rules when conversing with Christians.
It's cool to see a really positive RUclips comment! And also see someone step back and admit they were wrong at times. This video taught me a bit too.
Thank you Christopher. It's cool to see a positive reply for once, too! :)
I'm a Christian and I just want to say fantastic video, very respectfully done. Finally an Atheist who understands how mocking is never going to convince anyone of your point.
Being open minded =/= tolerant to inconsistencies. I have a religious friend who believes in evolution but also in the creationism. So when I confronted him he said evolution is just for animals. Humans came from god.
Almost everything religious people say is of a similar caliber and my patience is running out.
no. humans and animals came from evelution.
lazyDude77 why do u care in what someone else believes in?
lazyDude77 some questions aren't answerable, that's where beliefs and religion take place, where people can believe (or not believe whatever they want to)
Mother Moth They don't have an answer...yet. That's what we have science for.
People who actually "choose" what they believe in are few in numbers. Most are born in to their religion and and get their beliefs carved in to their brains.
Apparently people are less likely to have faith when a person hear about a magical being in the sky that is the answer to everything for the first time in their twenties.
+LazyDude77 technically we are animals. just the most evolved.
Uh, I'm not concerned about hurting their feelings. I think I will just say whatever the fuck I want...
dont expect to be respected by them then
DariusCLP This is not a popularity contest. If and when they come to their senses I may speak to them like they are an adult. Until that day they will receive nothing but venom from me...
I don't think that has anything to do with your views on the subject; rather I think it has more to do with the fact that your are just generally an unpleasant person.
I disagree with you on some of your points, and here's why:
1) Christianity, as with other religions, is mostly taught to children when they're very young and willing to accept what their parents say. There are some cases where people change denomination of church, and even fewer of where people change religion completely, but the smallest group would have to be Atheists converting to be religious. The only reasonable explanation for that is that the majority of religious people are indoctrinated.
2) I agree with you here up to a point, as fierce indoctrination means that people don't tend to think about the bad side to churches, and just focus on the sense of community. However, religious people in 'first world' countries generally have open access to information online, and when they're presented with the facts, they ignore them and when pushed they come up with some BS 'you've just got to have faith' answer, and at that point I believe it's perfectly acceptable to dismiss that persons religious beliefs as they won't accept the evidence given to them.
3) Christianity is the belief in Jesus' person and teachings, which means accepting the whole bible. If a person works on Sunday, or doesn't stone homosexuals, then they're not 'true' Christians, as they don't actually follow the bible (I therefore hope no-one's a true Christian).
4) Again, I agree with you up to a point. Indoctrinated people that have never been taught evolution or been encouraged to read their bible are just ignorant of information and not stupid, but people like Ray Comfort are just idiotic when it comes to Science.
5) I agree with you.
6) I see where you're going with this, and I don't want to tax churches, but they should definitely have to report their income and what they spent where by law, and must give that report to the people that attend the church. This way, if pastors earn ridiculous sums of money, the people will give less, and if the church commits to a lot of community projects, people will be encouraged to give more if they have it.
I know so many ex-atheists now Christian, including me. No indoctrination involved at all.
@@topologyrob saying “no indoctrination at all” is stupid because I guarantee if your parents didn’t teach you Christianity you would not be a Christian
@@cringememes1044 Garbage - you assumed totally wrong.
@@topologyrob point still stands. Many Christian’s wouldn’t be Christian if their parents didn’t teach them it
@@cringememes1044 Your fallacy is assuming that religion is based on beliefs
"Oh, so you're insane?"
No joke, happened to me before the holidays.
As a religious/spiritual person who is also an independent, non-political, highly educated, a critical thinker (that is pretty much what I do for a living), a feminist, not evangelical, not anti-gay, lover of people from all backgrounds and all ideologies, and has an appreciation for respectful atheists who ask people to question their beliefs (as we should all question everything - which means you should also continue to question your own beliefs and be open to reasonable and informative discussion from religious people who make good arguments), I appreciate your videos. And yes, I have seen most of your videos. I appreciate that you do indeed seem friendly, and do not appear to be too judgmental, proselytizing, or hypocritical.
+The Emo Thingy You're a total inhuman shitstain
elibeth1211 pls watch ray comfort's videos
who also has a deep appreciation for run on sentences
Here's what Ben Franklin had to say about taxing churches: _"When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its professors are obligated to call for help of the civil power, it's a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one."_ Now surely that's a message that "free market" conservatives should be able to support, wouldn't one think?
i know a christian that believes in evolution and bigbang, and he thinks that the universe is 13.5billion years old. he thinks those things are done by god.
i am fine with those people, as they except sciencetific facts
While I agree it's good that he accept scientific facts, I don't think your friend is really a Christian. And if he is, why is he only believing in some parts and not all of it? Does he think that the ones writing the bible were lying about some parts of it?
It's what Doug Stanhope says: Christians believe everything in the bible that doesn't directly affect them: "I believe in an after life, Jesus Christ and heaven. But premarital sex, that must have been a typo."
I'm sorry, but people like that are bullshit.
Simen Iversen he is young, he has not yet dicide witch direction he want his life to go. he keeps all doors open
It's good, absolutely - maybe he's not Christian but a deist. Maybe he believes in a god without religion. I could respect that much more than believing in a religion "just because". :)
Simen Iversen It could also be that he thinks that some things in the bible are not meant to be taken literally. I know a few (very few) christians much like that. They think that the bible is not 100% literal in its words and more metaphorical. Which I don't really get but hey its a step right?
Simen Iversen worse than a Scotsman pulling a no true Scotsman fallacy is a Cambodian pulling the no true Scotsman fallacy.
Look again to Hemat's third point in this video and remember that major Christian churches do not consider the Bible as the source of their faith.
As a Christian, I appreciate this message so much. I see my faith as being ultimately about inspiring people to have love and compassion and respect for others, but there hasn't been nearly enough of that on either side of this debate. Thanks for speaking out!
Amen
Don't attack the person, attack the argument. I can't remember who was the first one to say that... Very useful though.
Giving to religion was ok 30 or 40 years ago. But today, pastors make 6 figure salaries (or more), they live in nice homes (very nice), drive Mercedes/Cadillacs/BMWs. They used to do the whole "life of poverty", they they have turned that around 100% and now are all about the money.
I haven't been to a church in 30 years, I was floored when a friend recently told me that ALL they talk about at his church is money, how they can bring in more money, how everyone is EXPECTED to give at least $500 for Easter. Yet, they do no more charity work today than they did a decade ago.
Actually, your average pastor nowadays make much less than your average pastor back in the Medieval Ages, or in the Reneissance. There have never been a "life of poverty" rule for priests, only certain monks.
It honestly depends on the different domination of Christianity. the Catholic preists i know dont have fancy cars and focus their lives on the poor, but they are the ones i know i dont have any other perceptive on that, there may be some.
***** True, during the Counter-Reformation the Catholic Church cut heavily in its own wealth. Since then Catholic Priests have only become more and more... Average.
I just love your videos. The problem with both Christians and Atheists is that both of them tend to be irascible when their perspectives are rebutted instead of both of them being open-minded and remaining serene. As an atheist, despite how young I am, I've encountered a plethora of irascible Christians and not once have I lost my composure.
You taught me a new word today. Irascible. That is an awesome word. Thank you for expanding my vocabulary. Haha. :)
When has the position of atheism been rebutted? Has actual evidence for deities been found?
Very well said! Don't forget the people who get upset the moment they find out someone doesn't have the same beliefs as them.
cobinizer are you aware of the definition of rebut? Atheism is rebutted every day. "Rebut: claim or prove that (evidence or an accusation) is false." This is what he's talking about in this video. We have to learn to accept that our disbelief will be rebutted ..even if we perceive it to be invalid.
***** The majority of atheists aren't making a claim. We simply don't buy the claim that gods exist.
Wow...just subscribed and I feel really connect with what I'm hearing. Thanks Hemant! Looking forward to hearing more vids
Wow, first calm and logical atheist I've witnessed. I appreciate your practical approach.
He is right. What he is basically saying is stop using bashing arguments. We do need to acknowledge the Christians who do wonderful things so we will be able to rationalize with them to make our arguments more valid. There are decent and intelligent Christians who will actually respect the things you say, and bashing them is just creating an unnecessary enemy that we don't need honestly. There are many liberal Christians we need on our side. Think about how much of a slap in the face that would be to conservative Christians if we had other Christians standing up to them.
While I agree with your idea that we don't want to tax nonprofits, I don't think churches should automatically be allowed to become nonprofits, especially because some of them are clearly for-profit entities.
astaiannymph I agree. And, as a point of fact, churches do lose their tax exempt status. One of the most famous cases of this was the Unification Church (moonies), but it happens to other churches as well.
Religion isn't really a choice. Either you're convinced of something or you're not
I'll tell you where my churches money goes. Into our food pantry, paying our pastor to support himself and family, helping out people when needed, money to certain areas (example: to the youth for camps, concerts, movies, or supplies, the youth pastor chooses but the budget isn't big enough for a lot of this) and for supplies needed for the church. We're a tiny church losing more members than gaining but tithes sometimes aren't enough. But my favorite is the food pantry because the people who come by are very grateful and it's nice to help out those who need it.
Isn't the problem with churches being tax exempt specifically because some of them don't function as non-profit organizations in the first place? It's less "play by the same rules" and more "play the same game."
Congratulations you have invented a new type of atheism, apologetic atheism...
I don't even go to church, but I'm still a Christian.
A Christian is having a relationship with God NOT going to a building every Sunday.
Amen, church doesn't save you, it's the spiritual relationship between you and God that saves you.
Im a christian too and i 100% know god is real aint turnin back
@@itachisucks6693 amen
A church Is not actually a building. It’s a gathering of people who worship and share the word of God.
@@gemb7986 very true 👍
I have been viewing several of your videos this evening. I was on the verge of sharing my impression that it seemed you were intolerant of Christians and their beliefs. As a society, is intolerance and acceptance of each other the most we can hope for in order to live in harmony. So, this video has changed my impression of your views. I appreciate this message. Thank you very much.
This is an interesting one. There's bits I agree with & bits I don't.
1) I don't think brainwashing is a simplistic reason. The mechanics of indoctrination are hugely complex. It's a bit blunt to boil down to a single word, but it's not far off the mark.
2) I pretty much agree.
3) I don't know of anyone that does think there's only one form of Christianity. You tread on an odd line here because you talk about being specific about a nebulous term & treat Christianity & Christians as if the words were synonymous. I'm not against some specific Christians, I'm against religion in its entirety.
4) Totally agree!
5) I agree that religion isn't a mental illness, but to call it a virus is quite apt in my opinion. You don't choose your beliefs. They form slowly as you acquire new information & are exposed to different ideas & environments. They're built on evidence, but also deep founded emotional attachments. These sorts of belief are intimately entwined with a persons identity. They're infectious, detrimental, but often benign. There's no magic on/off switch for religiosity, it takes years of rehab. The analogy works beautifully.
6) I agree & just want to add this. It's my understanding that any non-tax exempt business is allowed to financially support political candidates in America. To add the Church to that bracket would mobilize a tidal wave of financial support for right wingers in the U.S. It's a scary thought. I think many churches are corrupt & unqualified to be tax exempt & if so it should be taxed, but not whilst corporate money is backing your politicians.
I don't dismiss religions because of the bad things religion has done, I dismiss it because of "faith" and the suspension of critical thinking. When you don't use logic you can believe/support some crazy things.
I was Christian for an hour
Anne Bell Cherish that hour
I'm sorry you had to go through that.
I'll pray for you. It must be hard knowing you wasted an hour of your life.
As a Christians I really want to thank you for saying this. Because most of the atheists I have debated have done these things that you say they shouldn't do. I mean I don't agree with your conclusions about God, but the atheists I have debated need to be more like you.
And while I do agree that there are different kinds of Christians, there are some people who claim to be Christians but do preach teachings that are not align with scripture and that actually makes someone in the same position as an unbeliever. But you are right, there are somethings Christians debate even within their own circle
Ken Ham picks and chooses as well. No matter what he claims, he doesn't actually follow the whole bible literally.
Honestly, I think it's fair to point out someone who claims to be a biblical literalist is actually a buffet christian, but anyone who admits they aren't a literalist shouldn't be mocked for not following everything.
I basically disagree about the "don't call religion a virus" thing. I do consider Christianity something that had happened to me, it was an affliction and a condition that was detrimental to not only my self, in many ways, but to society and humanity as wholes. I suffered my Christianity- like many have and still do- and I would alleviate those afflicted just in the same way I would give an ignorant African child a malaria vaccine even if he didn't understand what it was for. Its fair to call it a virus because of all the negative effects that spread- just like a virus. Just because it happens to be a sociopolitical virus does not mean we cannot account for its nature.
This is the fault of many Atheist. Speaking as an Atheist, simply denouncing such a large piece of human development as a virus is almost childish. Many things we do as Atheists is make fun of religious believers when they attempt to convert us. In essence, "Alleviating the inflicted" is doing the same. You would simply be no better. Atheism is the lack of a god, not the attempt to convert others to it.
Being a doctor is knowing how to help sick people but you don't have to help them. Being an atheist sometimes is knowing how to help people, not by virtue of doctrine but by virtue of understanding reality, still you don't have to help them.
One cannot simply denounce religions a virus to be cured. It has had too large of an impact on the development of today's culture and morals. Religion has a played an astonishingly large role on morals of people today. I see believers as equals, not in a patronizing faction as one is too look at a patient. I will say religion is no great thing. The Crusades, the Dark Ages, and others all stand testamentary. Radical Christians today display a ignorance of basic science so severe it nears total disillusion. However, without this "disease" our culture would not be as rich, nor would we have had the flourishing periods of the arts like the Renaissance. Music wouldn't exist; It never had to. Neither would art, dance, or much of the fine arts. So, in removing religion, you are removing a large part of society that influenced much of the arts we see to the highest regards not because of it's religious aspects but the other factors to it. So it's a trade off. One benefit, but loose another.
They wont afford you the same respect. To them, you are a sinner and one that is going to hell in need of saving. You might argue the golden rule but I think satanists have it more right- treat others how they treat you. It matters little what religion has done being as now it has become a monster to be slayed. Sure, it gives us a lot of culture but I'm no longer in consensus that its worth it. Perhaps I am wrong, but I don't think I am. The holocaust also gave us some great movies. Where would "Inglorious Bastards" be if it weren't for Hitler? Still glad the motha fuckas dead.
Simply because they won't offer you the respect is not a a valid reason under any circumstance in stoop to their level. We must be the adults in the room, since they shall refuse to be.
Hement, I have had the pleasure of meeting you in person. One thing in this video is your twice saying "bring them over to our side." As militant as I have become in the last two years, the concept of "sides" bothers me. I know this is an older video, and I've not heard the phrase in other videos, but I just had to say my piece. Thanks for all your great work!
Even though I disagree with his views and atheism, I really enjoyed this video. He brings up a lot of really good points. Good to see an intelligent atheist encouraging others to view Christians intelligently :)
I mostly agree with all points, except number 6. You said it yourself: The problem is that they don't follow the rules of typical non-profits. Which means that they AREN'T a non-profit organization. If they're using the revenue they bring in to pay high salaries and everything, that's profiting.
So while the solution that you propose of making them follow those rules is one option, taxing them is another option. You didn't explain why taxing churches isn't a good option. You just presented another option.
If we were to tax churches, it wouldn't lead to taxing all non-profits, because if churches aren't actually non-profits, then they don't belong in that group. So your imagined consequence of it leading to the taxation of all non-profits is therefore a non-sequitor.
The option you present of making them follow the rules might be a good option, but taxing them is, IMO, possibly a better one. Not only would it serve to clarify that they aren't actually a non-profit organization, and may, in the process, make them come closer to following the rules anyway... it would also add a significant amount of money to public funding, which we could use to benefit everybody, instead of it just benefiting whoever the church decides to give it to (some of which, as mentioned, goes to high salaries for themselves).
People may rebut that by arguing that the government wouldn't use it properly, because the government is corrupt... Okay, so let's work to get rid of corruption in government. If you'd go for the option of getting rid of corruption in churches, why not do it with the government, too? People always complain about government corruption like there's nothing we can do about it. There is, we just don't do it.
Nope. Sorry. Non-profits pay high salaries to their leadership all the time. Being labeled as a non-profit doesn't mean that you don't make a profit. It simply means that you are not selling products to the public and charging them directly for those products.
John Jenkins Nope. Sorry. The definition of non-profit is that they only pay a token salary to members and employees (and often, they use volunteers who get no compensation), but all surplus revenue is put back into the organization. The organizers (they are not even allowed to call themselves owners) are not allowed to profit from the organization's revenue.
When members are paying themselves higher than necessary salaries, then they are profiting, and their organization should not qualify for non-profit. If there are any examples of "non-profit organizations" where the members are paying themselves high salaries, then they are either taking advantage of rules that are too loose or they are breaking the rules.
Actually, I work with a not-for-prifit and, yes, they have to pay market wages to everyone who works there. Those employees aren't feeding their families and paying their mortgages with "kindness."
Hence the token salary. What are you arguing, exactly?
I'm arguing that they get paid market wages, and in the market CEOs are well compensated. A token wage implies that they are paid with "whatever is left." Not true. Like I typed before. Their employees have families and mortgages. They do have volunteers as well, but they're mostly fresh out of college.
he's an Atheist... but he's not a douchebag!!
how is this.... possible
Well, he is known as "The Friendly Atheist." Also, not all atheists are douchebags. That's like saying that all Christians are like the Westboro Baptist Church.
QuantumPolagnus true true. there are douche bags and good people Everywhere. and from what i'm learning, more good people than douche bags
Its not that we are douchebags its just that Christians think that when we insult the church we are insulting them.
Well, to be entirely honest, it's understandable. Imagine you told an avid tennis fan that tennis was shit and makes the world stupider. Of course they would be angry - you've just insulted something they hold dear.
QuantumPolagnus
Tennis does not hold back progress like christianity has done and is still doing. Tennis does not get people killed. Tennis players are not forcing kids to believe in tennis. Tennis is not made up. Tennis does not come to your door asking you to play tennis and only tennis. Tennis is real.
I loved this video!!! Thank you so much for putting these arguments together.
I’m Christian and this is very respectful. I believe everyone deserves equality no matter what race,religion,And sexuality. A lot of people when they here people say “I’m a Christian” they assume I’m homophobic and racist. Which I’m not. I may only be a teenager but I don’t believe in god becuase that how I grew up. I believe in him because having Jesus in me calms me and I know I have someone I talk to when we I feel alone and I believe he is lord. I don’t think it’s right to bash people for what they believe.
Two things, fairly similar: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" and "That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence", given that you're using them in the incorrect context. There are theists that will use extremely faulty scientific reasoning to explain why they believe whatever their religion says, and in instances like those, these are appropriate to say. However, when having theological arguments, such as the problem of evil, original sin, etc, you have to argue against their point from their viewpoint - you have to accept it hypothetically, and *then* proceed to poke holes in why whatever theological reasoning is wrong, not just say "prove God first, butthead!"
I don't see a lot of atheists doing this, but I see enough doing it that it somewhat bothers me. You don't need to demend evidence for the existence of God to argue why Pascal's Wager is bollocks - doing so stalls otherwise constructive conversations.
Those two also ignore the meta-arguments of Christianity, I hate it when people say those, it means to me that they're not interested in a discussion about whether the discussion is functioning on the correct terms or not, much less the discussion itself, only in shutting down the religious person so they can be "right".
Gino Vincenzini If you hate it when people say those, present some evidence then. Do something no theist has ever been able to do: present evidence for what you believe. Then you'll no longer hear those statements.
Another good reason not to tax churches is that should they become a bug source of income for the government then they would have greater influence than they do now. Politicians would have incentive to endorse a particular church or churches so that they got more money and therefore so does the government.
Basically the people who have the most right to say what the government does are the ones being taxed by it. Now everyone in the US taxed and most if the US is christian. But because we don't tax the church it keeps a boundary between church and state.
Also the whole concept of majority rule with minority rights always applies. Though people, in any large group, have a tendency to forget that.
Lol I meant big not bug
Ok, so tax the churches that don't actually do much in the way of charity work. How's that? Prerequisite: They all need to be open-book if they want to qualify for tax exempt status. Also, trying to convert people without actually doing things to improve their lives (a lot of mission work) doesn't count.
+Justin Porteus definitely would help with faith based healers
This is one of the first truly open minded videos I've seen on RUclips from an atheist on how to actually open a dialogue with someone who believes differently. Well done to you.
We try to have open dialog, but religious people don't listen to reason. Some TV character said it, and he was right -- "If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people." I've even heard the religious counter-quote to that, which goes something like "Of course it's not based on reason, that's why it's called FAITH." And they say that as though it's a good thing! Now do you understand why there can be no dialog? But it's all right. Reason is winning, religion is losing. By the end of the 21st Century, atheists will be the majority in America.
Your first point is good. Assuming is wrong. Your second point is lacking. Since I agree with Hitchens when he says, it isn't religion that is doing good, it's people in religion doing good. The only thing kicking it back is the advent of secular societies.
I agree with the next 2 points after that. I would say religiousness doesn't help mentally ill people, it's more of a bane to them, but to call Religiousness a mental illness seems to be a bit too much. Your last point is stupid, because it is true that we should tax all religious institutions and I would advise saying it to anyone and everyone. People should know why it's unconstitutional just like "in god we trust" on our money is unconstitutional.
The religion drives these people to do the good things they do. Also we perceive the same things you abhor to be more good things What you call a woman's right to choose, we call murder and it's restriction the protection of life, what you call "gay rights" we call the profanation of marriage and a force destructive to the fabric of society (comprised of reproducing families), what you call anti-sex, we call containing sex in a context that allows all the good in it to flow while holding back and protecting from the negative things that can happen. And there are pros and cons to both for the atheist which is why I don't think it's fair that these issues are tied up in that concept, there are anti-gay-marriage atheists out there, there are pro life atheists, there are conservative athiests who agree that marriage between opposite sex is the best assurance of sexual health. We see preservation of family and marital sexuality and human life to be inherently good things.
The unfortunate thing is that we've done a horrible job as a body of believers sticking to things which have worked quite well in the past: young marriages, betrothal, young families living in the young man's parent's home, men and women viewing both genders and their gender roles as being equally crucial and tailored to their strengths, etc. It used to be that the vast majority of Christians were against birth control of any kind but now only catholics and the "full quiver" crowd abide by that, the betrothal movement is very tiny and most of them are still waiting until far beyond the flower of young people's ages to betroth them, divorce is as easy to start as filing paperwork and can be done for any reason spurious or not, families are breaking down under laws and policies which reflect gender feminism's misandry. These are gross problems we all should be seeking win win solutions for, but instead we're too busy being mocked and attacked while simultaneously persecuted by the government and trying to defend our faith from argumentation instead of working together to solve the problems. Until we get rid of the "us vs them" mentality, the fight will continue, but it doesn't have to.
I agree with the video that religious organizations should have to follow the same rules that all 501(c)(3)s follow but to advocate for taxing them is to be oppressive to religions in general and it reflects the exact anti-religious bias found in most atheism echo chambers. "in god we trust" on our money is not establishing a religion nor does it prohibit someone from practicing their own, therefore it is not unconstitutional. Seriously if you are so offended by that I wonder whether you really are one of those "well thought out atheists" like few that I've met or encountered (TAV being one such person I respect as such) or if you are one of those reacting to some negative experience or emotional problem. It's one thing to disagree with religion, religious people, and the idea of God, it's another thing to hate religion, religious people, and God.
So what will it be? will you put aside your disagreement with religion, identify the actual problems, and then back up and try to find a good solution? or are you going to continue to rage against those who would otherwise not be your enemy?
*****
I agree which is why churches should be getting their money from voluntary giving and not preaching the obsolete tithing principle which applies to the equally obsolete Jewish temple and sacerdotal priesthood system.
Finally! A respectable atheist! Very smart :)
I really like point no. 2. Growing up, I never cared much for the sermons or judgemental people in my church but I loved the sense of community. I made my best friends that are still friends to this day from the church so it became a very important thing for me that I became engrained in from a young age. Even to this day I still miss talking to people weekly and seeing what was going on in each other's lives and trying to help each other through things either by praying (say what you will about it but prayer really helps sometimes to at the very least to make you feel better) or just opening up to someone you feel comfortable with. This sense of community is much harder to find as an adult that's an atheist. I never fully agreed with many of the things the church taught even when I was part of it but there were many aspects I liked and found beneficial as well.
Thank you for articulating so clearly an important principal. I appreciate what you have said, and agree wholeheartedly with your generous and loving approach to an important discussion. I am a Christian, for many years an atheist, though I came to my personal faith through many years of carefully testing my thinking, reading, and growing an appreciation for how I understand the Bible and who Christ is to me. I am blessed to have many friends of all beliefs, from Hindu to Atheist to Muslim, and we are a community who thrive on conversation and fellowship, and even though we disagree occasionally, we agree more often than not. Thank you for this video, it's encouraging to see a sensitive approach to a complex discussion. From NZ, Shalom
If more atheists were like this guy Christians would be more willing to here what atheists have to say.
I honestly doubt that.
james weaver
Well people in general are more likely to listen to a person whose not insulting them over the ones that are.
Talking about flying spaghetti monsters and sky daddies is going to do nothing but make people get on the defensive. Im not saying you have to hold the theist hand and appease them. But leaving out the insults would be more productive.
Im not an atheist, but I like this guys channel. I dont agree with him on everything, but his approach makes me more willing to listen. People like the Amazing Atheist just comes off as immature to me. I cant get into it.
Alvin Elmore Different people respond to different things. Tossing out insults or pointing out how ridiculous you think their beliefs are is sometimes the only way to get an idea through to someone and let them actually think about it. It's not pleasant and it's not nice, but it works sometimes. And I don't mean "omg, your stuped 4 being xian," but something like FSM and overt parodies can get people thinking.
Fish Stand
A natural human response to insults is to get defensive. Insulting a theist sometimes makes the matter worse. Because all your doing now is making them hold on to their beliefs out of spite.
Most christians dont become athiests because a athiest kept insulting them. They become atheist because they had their own doubts about their faith, not because some atheist talked about how stupid they were for believing.
I dont like it when theists insult atheists or vice versa. Its very childish and non-productive.
thank you for returning the respect I would give you
One of the best post i have seen so far from you! If i think of anything i will let you know
You bring up very rational & good points, Hemant! Thanks for the reminders. An Atheist in Arkansas
You are the nicest atheist I've seen on the internet. Thank you for not being like most RUclips atheists!
Onision badly needs to watch this video... I think I just made a lot of atheists cringe by comparing them to him. sorry :(
(oh, and just so you don't get the wrong idea - I love your vids! keep up the good work! But I can no more ignore the places that might need additional perspective than I can blindly believe that some invisible superdude is keeping a spreadsheet on my every thought and move)
Hey, very good video. I'm a christian and I like how you acknowledged that many Christians came to their conclusion based on a lot of thinking just like you. I spend hours every day looking into Christianity including history, debates, archaeology etc. so I like to hear an atheist acknowledge that Christians don't just accept there religion blindly (some do sure, but you know what i'm saying) I'm all for having a discussion with an atheist about religion but so many atheist are aggressive, and rude (and christians) so i'm glad to see videos like this.
They obviously didn't put THAT much thought into their belief in god, otherwise they wouldn't still have a belief in god -_-
Immanuel Kant
First of all, atheism doesn't automatically lead to nihilism. Secondly, you say it's immoral and stupid from your position, yet I could just as easily say whatever views you hold are immoral and stupid from my position (so basically it's a null statement). And finally, you seem to be suggesting that it makes no sense for an atheist person to be a good person if there is no eye in the sky tabulating their every action. Obviously, that's bonkers...people can and will be nice to one another simply because they want to be nice to one another. And the reverse of that, that you only do good actions because you are scared of the consequences or desirous of the reward, is in and of itself a terrifying thought. Are you a sociopath?
*****
Can you explain your comment more? It seems to indicate that your of the mind that if someone were to think about religion enough, they would come to the inevitable view that god is indeed a real entity. Is this what you meant?
Immanuel Kant I'm confused about your assertion that an atheist can't have an objective moral system, and I assume by contrast that you're saying a religious person's morals are object.
Religious morals are not objective, they are dogmatic, which simply means that they are asserted from a position of authority. In this case, that authority happens to be whatever god they believe in.
Conversely, an atheist's morals can only be based on an objective criteria. In fact, it was Immanuel Kant who set out to create an objective philosophy of morality.
However, the only thing you really need for an objective moral value is a basic concept of empathy, and then you can use that to guide your actions.
*****
Thank you for clarifying. And I would agree with you when it comes to the many atheists that believe with incredible fervor that there is no god. Most sensible people, most of whom would still call themselves atheists (perhaps a minor misnomer) would simply say that there is no evidence of a god, therefore there is no reason to believe in one. It's not a belief in a lack of god, it's a lack of belief in a god... minor yet important distinction.
***** Gnostic Atheists are as silly as Gnostic Theists, but they are not necessarily the same as Agnostic Atheists. I have not personally met any atheist (including myself) that is not also agnostic because gnosticism is logically disingenuous. Carl Sagan was a very smart man, but on that point, he was simply overgeneralizing about Gnostic Atheism representing the whole of Atheism as a concept, which is flat wrong.
You , sir, are intelligent, cultured, and know what is really wrong with "angry atheists*. I have no problem with people who are atheist, but the "angry" variety are giving the rest of you a bad name, just like the "Westboro Baptist Church" gives Baptists a bad name.
#3 especially. Whenever an atheist tells me I'm not a true Christian because I accept evolution and "The Bible says...", I call them fundamentalist atheists. It's nice to hear an Episcopalian atheist for a change.
Churches are NOT non-profit and SHOULD be taxed. If a particular church wants to be non-profit, they should follow the same rules everyone else follows, but being a church does not automatically make an organization non-profit.
You were going well until the last point. It's weak. You essentially admit that "tax the churches" is shorthand for "force the churches to follow the same rules as every other non-profit with regards to reporting income and expenditure to demonstrate that they should qualify for tax-exempt status."
he didn't make up the phrase, he is just saying the reasoning behind the choosing of the shorter more "punch line" phrase than the longer one that no one would be able to read quickly in an advertisement or tweet. People skim when they read, so it makes it more noticeable with a quick phrase. It's wrong that they use such a confusing phrase but that is their reasoning behind it.
Taressa Mines I know, Taressa. Point is that he's saying that we should stop saying it, then basically admitting that he has no alternative for us to use. So far I haven't seen any viable short form of the full "make churches follow the same rules as other tax-exempt organizations." Have you?
TheMonk72 NPO and Church tax equality? That's the best shorthand phrase i could come up with.
Jonathan Oberg
Then use it. Instead of complaining about the current situation, change it.
Someone, somewhere, is an idiot. There, I helped your argument that we're calling people idiots in the comments. :P
it's me isn't it. :(
Amelia Hartman Yes, yes it is......
MegaTrooper555 FUCK
***** Am I "that guy" or "that guy"?
Your point are well made. I have used some of these in the past, but will not any more.
I admire that you can see the other side of things, and have helped me do the same.
There is a strong correlation between religion and lack of education. It is no surprise that many of the most religious countries on earth are also third world countries (Somalia, Malawi, Indonesia, Bangladesh).
Now, in my opinion, I always thought it was particularly interesting that the church is so focused on children/young people and seniors. What that looks like to me is that the church is preaching to people who have yet to decide for themselves what they believe and also people on the other side of the spectrum that are afraid of what comes after death.
This video was well communicated but I do disagree with one or two points. Thanks for sharing!
God: Worship me, so I can save you.
Man: Save me from what?
God: From sending you to a place of eternal torture and suffering that I created. If you don't worship me thats where you will end up.
Man: But why would you do such a thing?
God: Just shut up and do as i say, or else!
1.the hell was created by satan 2.God doesnt force you to believe in Him.its your choice 3. if you dont believe in Him and after u die u end up at heaven gate why should he receive you ? if u didnt believe in your creator in the first place and you mocked his name? you wont be received so that means your soul can only go the other way ,which is to hell ..or maybe there is a middle empty dark space or singularity between heaven and hell designed for the people who were atheists but were good people in their life ... a dark lonely place a lil better than hell ...the last thing is my theory only
natalie shinobi
1 Oh wow. God created everything so he created Hell at first just for satan and his demons but later to everyone who do not beleive in him. Ps. read the bible. 2 Exactly, he doesent force anyone but blackmail people and scare them with eternal torture, which is much better? I dont know. 3 i did not get your point, you are forced by god to burn and suffer if you do not beleive in him which is to me so radical it actually makes no sense, this religion is just too brutal for me.
Sooo... I take it no one has read The Great Divorce by C. S. Lewis? Or listened to accounts of near death experiences?
-_- really? OH By God... give this man/woman a brain. please.
theblackbull55 When you die the soul becomes detached from the physical. Since you no longer have a physical body you, your soul, will fall downwards like a leaf from a tree unless there is a force which raises you upwards. God is that force. Up or down, the choice is yours.
I think less than 1% of Christians could answer the question "Why do you believe in god?" or "why are you a Christian?". They just fell into it. They best they can do is recite some cant they clearly are just quoting mindlessly. You are giving them credit they do not deserve.
+Roedy Green
I can assure you that that is absolutely false.
But I have a question for you: why do you hold your worldview?
True
So I believe in God because of the experiences I've had during and after meditation...but I'm not a Christian though...
I go to a Christian school, only because of its education (I am an atheist) and everyone hates me and they are SO over the top about God and must include God in every sentence. I always get in trouble because I want pray and stuff. I asked them, and none could answer why they believe in God.
Won't - not want
Hey Hement, I dont think you're right about the choice of believers. As a believer, I didn't have a choice in whether or not I believed. I was raised with the idea that if I fell away from my faith, the worst thing imaginable would be what I'd done. And the moment I realized that, after almost two years of thinking God had chosen me as a leader against him, or even a Satanist, I was able to walk away from the attatchment to my faith. Then my entire basis for reality was gone and I went insane trying to learn everything over but the right way.
Hello Hemant, I am a Christian. Thank you for mentioning the tax thing. I often hear some atheists say there needs to be a separation of church and state, and therefore churches ought to be taxed. What those people don't understand is that taxing churches has the opposite effect.
If the government starts taxing churches, the government has an interest in how well churches are doing and how much they are gaining from tithes. For instance, the government would benefit from mega churches with large tithes. They would have an interest in promoting this type of church. Personally, I don't want those types of churches being promoted because some of them emphasize materialism that I don't agree with.
Taxing the church would also mean that the government is missing out on revenue from atheists who do not donate to the church.
Not taxing the church prevents the government from benefiting from the doctrines and beliefs of others. It ensures less corruption. This is part of the reason why there was a lot of church corruption in Europe, because the government had an interest in the money the church brought in.
Not taxing the church preserves the integrity of the church and prevents the government from preferring Christianity over Athiesm. Its a win-win for everyone.