@@jordanhalmosman9957 tf you taking about. Its usualy the plant eaters that consume a lot of sugar. Carnivores never feel the need to consume cookies or any of that shi
Speaking as someone who spent 21 years vegan who now eats lots of meat because of health issues I encountered, I can see that both sides of this debate are bringing valid points and are also stretching data to fit their biases. Frankly, vegans love to cite studies about obesity, heart disease, diabetes, and cancer, because those are all diseases of over-consumption of certain nutrients that vegan diets are very low in, so a vegan diet creates a buffer from these diseases. Similarly, meat eaters love to quote studies about autoimmune diseases and neurological diseases, because these are often diets driven by under-consumption of nutrients that vegan diets are low in, so eating meat creates a buffer from those diseases. Frankly, both of you entered into this with an agenda about what you were setting out to prove and shifted the data as hard as possible to fit that narrative rather than doing the proper journalism of conveying the real clear truth that doesn’t fit neatly into either of your ideological boxes.
@@bastianfuentes8335 Oh no, they would call crusades on each other if this would be the medieval times. People this zelaous about a topic are inherently evil, depending on one's definition of course.
It doesn’t help the case for eating animal products when you factor in more of the ethical and environmental concerns. Animal agriculture is a leading cause of deforestation, land/ water use, ocean dead zones, species extinction, antibiotic resistance, zoonotic disease, crop deaths (which is a problem with plants, but to a much lesser degree when comparing on a per calorie basis), and overall animal suffering. Even this fantasy land of “ethical family farming” has huge problems with sustainability and ethics, especially because many of them are still intertwined with factory farming in some way. Why commodify sentient animals at all if there’s rarely a sufficient justification for it?
@@matthewzang6688 These statements are simply not true. Lets use water usage as a prime example. over 90% of "water usage" listed in the stats for water used in the production of meat is simply the rain water that happens to fall on the land that the cows live on. Then, on top of that, they don't subtract the water that the cows pee back out from that number, which again, is a majority of the water leftover. You know what DOES use a ton of water though? Almond production. One of the primary vegan replacements for protein and dairy is a leading cause of drought in California. I could go through point by point with each of your claims here but their aren't enough hours in the day. Start looking into claims made by people who disagree with you. I did, and after 21 years of veganism I'm now living a far healthier and more ethical life by consuming meat.
I'm 67 and I've been a vegan/vegetarian for most of 35 years. My health is Excellent and my blood tests/urine tests are Excellent. I eat 5 or 6 servings of Raw fruits and veggies every day. I've eaten raw fruits and veggies my entire life with No adverse health effects. I recently had a cardiovascular test that showed No problems. My daily intake of salt, fat and sugar is low and salt, sugar is especially low.
The thing is you are saying that he omits a lot details and ignores some of the result but at the same time you’re ignoring the fact that those people who choose to be vegan are not only eating plant based but also exercising and in general avoid all the unhealthy behaviors which cause problems with blood pressure, cholesterol levels. You are biased, I think he is too, there is no data proving that going vegan is better than eating healthy on a regular diet. Period.
I watched both side’s opinions and tried both and more for years. I don’t necessary agree with both RUclipsrs because they both “cherry-pick” their studies to support their opinions. What I learned is that a balance diet will work better for majority of the people. Talk abt the extreme is pointless for most, this isn’t a mathematical problem. But I can say one thing tho, a perfect vegan diet is dang hard and expensive to live with in the western countries while a carnivore diet is even harder and more expensive to do in Asia ; ) so maybe it’s all abt money overall.
That isn't true at all. In most developed nations in the West with steady supply lines, plant-based products are cheaper. Go to any supermarket and compare. If I still lived on meat / dairy, the way the economy is at the moment, I would be a lot poorer.
@@JB.zero.zero.1 I will ask you to do some calculations with macro and micro nutritions first, then times that value with the absorption rate/bioavailability of the nutrition from different diet, and view it from this perspective again. Don’t forget to add the cost of supplements. My point is to do the diet right, doing the plant based diet right is so hard that most ppl don’t know they are doing it sub optimal. It’s not a coincidence that most vegans do fit in the “skinny” side of stereotype. On the other hand, doing a meat based diet, most ppl will hit every check box right with the same amount of money spent. BUT the problem is that they tended to eat TOO MUCH. PS: I went to my local market and bought some vine ripe tomatoes the other day and I ended up with a bag of 5 decent size tomatoes for 7 bucks. How many calories is that and what’s the nutritional value? Not too much right? But for 7 bucks, I can buy a pound of usda choice steak, or 2 dozens of good eggs. That’s easily 2 days worth of food assuming you don’t over eat lol Sure you can choose everything organic, which will dramatically increase the price of a meat based diet. But personally I still found it cheaper than a plant based diet here in the states.
@@JB.zero.zero.1 Where i live beef is 2.19 a pound. Carrots are 3.49 a pound lettuce is like 2.49 and almost every other vegetable is more. The only exception would be fruits like bananas that are 1.19 a pound here
My takeaway after watching both videos: they're both wrong about things and cherry picking. This video does a good job of pointing that out from the other video, but I found his "debunking" of the digestive issues weak as hell as a good example of how he's poorly debunking. The video started out strong with citing multiple sources to debunk the dental health issues from the "WIL" video, but it seems to slowly roll down hill from there. I only watched this video because the WIL video seemed so far past what I understand is the scientific consensus which is basically "Yes you can be vegan and be healthy, but you need to be a little more particular to make sure you're getting certain foods in your diet than someone who has animal products in their diet." Of course, like with all things, swinging the opposite direction can have a ton of issues also. Like eating too much meat is just as bad for you as a raw vegan diet.
Thank you!!! I saw that stupid video and immediately replied: Vlogger: "Vegan diets don't work!" *asks zero vegans and consults zero science, then makes video Also, let's take you on a nice animal agriculture tour and make you watch the terror, the cruelty, and the actual tears rolling down the animals' faces. THEN do your little rant about vegan diets.
What logic would tell anyone that eating the decomposing, burnt flesh of another being is healthy? The lengths people will go to in effort to maintain their comfort level is astonishing! Dead animals rotting flesh, their mucus, and puss filled secretions are not food. That is money in the industries pockets! Disease, and death for us
I'm not vegan, but I'm certainly not pro-meat either. When I saw the thumbnail for that video I was suspicious and snooped a little on the channel and it became obvious it was just pro-meat propaganda, especially since that's not the dude's only video on the subject. I do not understand why people are so antagonistic to the idea that maybe we should eat less meat. Really great debunking here! Definitely appreciate a measured response to all those cherry picked points.
Yup, the stuff about B12 really is nonsense. I've been vegan for years and when my levels were tested, they actually exceeded the acceptable range slightly. Also... calcium is close to maximum, no problems with iron or vitamin D and my cholesterol problems just went away.
The backlash against veganism seems suspiciously similar to the backlashes by industry against threats to their cash flow: Big Tobacco recruited doctors; Exxon recruited college professors; Big Pharma recruited scientists; the Auto Industry recruited libertarians. And so, following the playbook, Big Meat / Dairy recruited keto & carnivore promoters. It's just weird how young people who are smart enough to string words into seemingly logical statements cannot muster the empathy needed to commit to basic decency toward sentient creatures.
'... cannot muster the empathy needed to commit to basic decency toward sentient creatures'. Good to see I'm not the only one who starts with the moral angle! If someone says 'It's possible to thrive without harming animals' the morally enabled person will likely respond along the lines of 'Really? I like the idea of that but I'm not certain that's true. Please tell me more', while the morally retarded person will bang square pegs through round holes in order to avoid making an ethical move.
@@Crambull what vegan industry has the money to fund influencers, doctors, scientists to any large degree? Maybe mock meats but Mic hasn't talked fully positively on them and there is no mock meat board or anything, it's just individual companies. The egg, dairy, and meat industries all have massive budgets and have boards and councils set up to speak on behalf of their industries rather than just individual companies and farmers. They are very protective of their profits by any means.
QUOTING: a) Recent research finds people eating a vegetarian or vegan diet have (...) an increased risk of a particularly dangerous kind of stroke. b) A new paper from the German Nutrition Society insists “a vegan diet can't provide everything your body needs,” The report states “it is difficult or impossible to attain an adequate supply of some nutrients” while following a vegan diet. It specifically cites B12 - found in meat and eggs - as an essential ingredient that plant-based diets can lack, along with omega-3s (found in fatty fish) and a number of other nutrients including “calcium, iron, iodine, zinc and selenium.” The paper warns that children and adolescents and pregnant or breastfeeding women should not not eat vegan, and recommends anyone following a vegan diet seek guidance from a nutritionist."
Can we get these two together for a debate or occasional colab on scientific paper critique. I think these two highlight the confusion in nutrition and waste their time responding to one another when we really need a conversation.
Honestly I am tired of the battle between vegan and carnivore. Both life styles change lives. If you go vegan or vegetarian you cut out all the junk food. If you go true carnivore. Then you also cut out all the junk food. Both sides need to stop worrying about each other and battle against the highly processed junk food. I was a vegetarian for 3 years and I continued to eat eggs as my main source of protein and thrived. Now I am on a carnivore diet and have similar results. Cut our refined sugars and junk food and no matter what your life will change for the better. Anti junk food is what people should advocate.
This right here. I know I don't eat healthy enough (in fact I'm actually fighting the urge to eat a sugar cookie right now, and the thing is I'm not even craving it, I just WANT it). We keep attacking each other with our beliefs, this extends to way more than food, instead of seeing the things that we should be fighting for.
Vegans can eat junk food, what you on about. The issue between carnists and vegans is that carnists derive pleasure from children being raped, vegans don't.
B12 .. that's it! It's worth noting majority of livestock are supplemented with either cobalt (B12 pre curser) or b12 injections themselves. "Agriculture victoria 6. cobalt/vitamin B12 " [australian livestock exports 12.31 billion$ -the 3rd biggest exporter of meat globally behind Brazil(1) and USA(2) ) ] "Cobalt deficiency can be prevented by a range of cobalt supplements-drenches, licks, foliar sprays and fertiliser top-dressing, as well as pellets and vitamin B12 injections. Vitamin B12 is only syrithesised from dietary cobalt in the rumen and is poorly absorbed. Therefore, animals require regular and frequent oral dosing with cobalt to satisfy their (33)vitamin B12 requirements and drenches must be administered weekly or at most fortnightly to be completely effective." We supplement the animals so we don't need to supplement direct. Sounds counterproductive when considering the immense ethical and enrironmental implications. "Our world data -land by global diets" "Livestock takes up nearly 80% of global agricultural land, yet produces less than 20% of the world's supply of calories" again, counterproductive!
I am impressed by your ability to misrepresent studies and facts. I saw at least two lies and one misrepresentation in the first two minutes. "He says eating vegetables causes crooked teeth." No, he said that highly processed foods are linked to poor bone development. "He denied the environmental benefits of a plant based diet." No, he didn't. Not a single time. "Generally relying on outdated studies." No, he's really not. He's using evidentiary studies as citations rather than population studies. You know who I've found most likely to lie about their health in order to make others think they're doing better than they are? Vegans. He's not pushing a low carb diet; he's pushing a primitive diet. There's five lies. "Vegans are at least trending at dying less by about fifteen percent." You think that might be because older folks are far less likely to eat a vegan diet?
As an aside, I am a major supporter of animal protein reduction for both environmental and health reasons. That doesn't mean that its implementation is always done well.
@sethgibson2838 I thank you for reading my comment. Vegetarian is not vegan. Most commonly, vegetarians will occasionally consume animal flesh on social occasions, at least in my experience. And yes, this makes them not 'true' vegetarians, but it also makes them humans who identify as vegetarians while also consuming animal flesh. The 5% allowance is inadequate in this regard.
I watch a lot of these videos - vegan and carnivore - and what's interesting to me are the carnivores are usually the young ones. Take Bruno Panucci of zerocarbfitness&health. He's in his 50's. He's had a heart attack and open heart surgery and he's still a hardcore carnivore. It's quite amazing. Then contrast this with people like t Colin Campbell author of the China study. He eats a plant based diet and is in his 90's. Or how about Caldwell Esselstyn, he preaches a plant based diet and is in his 90's. But his dad died at 42 of a massive heart attack. Even Ancel Keys himself, who is so unfairly demonized in carnivore circles, lived to 100 eating mostly a plant based diet. I think the plant based diet influencers are much more convincing if you really look into it.
Different people have different bodies. I am a dentist with severe IBS. A vegan diet exacerbated my flatulence to the point of depression and suicidal thoughts, as my job requires me to be near patients for extended periods. Currently, I am on a paleo diet, which has improved my IBS symptoms. Therefore, I feel deeply offended when vegans claim, "We as humans have the choice, and there is no reason for us to eat meat." what a crap... I hope we can live in a world which we respect each other diet and choices.
There are a million plant-based foods that don't give flatulence. I bet you didn't even try to adjust your diet around them. I hope you at least are very selective about where you get your meat from, and I mean actually selective, not blindly trusting of meaningless "labels" in the supermarket.
0:47 Oh, so you *didn't* watch the video, because he says it's processed foods that seem to cause that, not plants. Alright, thank you for making it very clear early on that you're not going to be refuting anything actually said, it saved me from watching 29 minutes of nonsense.
You mentioned Tarahumaras in about the 25:00 mark, which made me awkwardly proud as a Mexican, and I also wanted to add they're fearless runners. They even call themselves rarámuris which means rara=feet, muri=run, they don't even like our "tradition" sports clothing (Nike, Adidas, whatever), some big brands have tried sponsoring them, but they always fail because they run in their own normal clothes, big dresses, traditional sandals, big baggy shirts, etc. There are quite a few documentaries about them, look them up.
@@StanDupp6371 that's a tough question to answer. INEGI (national institute in charge of census) is not that detailed. They do, however, separate indegenous people from the rest, and indegenous life expectancy is close to 65 years, about 7 years less than the national average, this is for a ton of reasons including: limited or non existant access to medical care, education, clean water and even food altogether, let alone a balanced diet (plant-based or not). Tarahumaras are also specially known for consuming a lot of corn, and I mean A LOT, to the point where they drink tejuino (alcoholic corn-based beverage) from a young age, this doesn't help them as one of their leading causes of death is cirrhosis. 30 sounds like a gross exaggeration, but I can pretty much guarantee it's lower than the national average. Sadly, indigenous communities in Mexico (and frankly, all over the world) tend to be ignored by the government.
@@dariohermosillo Did you see the study at 25:00 mark on Tarahumara it says they consume 18 to 21 grams of fiber per day? That does not sound like they eat a lot of corn or plant foods unless it was mistake in the study? The life expectancy may have been from low levels of B12, Retinol, K2, Heme, DHA and C15:0? Does corn and plant foods have those 6 nutrients?
@@StanDupp6371let me get this straight, in a study that concluded they ate up to 97% of their calories from plants, you concluded they don't by reading the abstract? you did a terrible job btw, that same abstract literally says they eat up to 80% carbs, which would go in line with corn's nutritional value, low fiber is just what happens with nixtamal process, where they take the corn's outer membrane.
@@dariohermosillo I did not conclude anything I simply reported what it said, sometimes there are mistakes and I did not write the article so how can you say I did a terrible job? It states in the complete document table 19 + or - 3 grams fiber. Also it states bean consumption which does have a lot of fiber but the numbers of the whole report just doesn't add up as there are contradictions
I am 43 and have been a vegetarian for 32 years and I eat a mainly vegan diet since 22 years. Most of the things I eat are organic and I don't drink a lot of alcohol and I don't eat many sugary things. The unhealthy things are the exception. People usually mistake for being 10 years younger than I am. So I doubt I am doing something wrong. All the steak and chicken, burger, coke and other crap eaters who were giving me stupid comments back in school look like they are about to be 50.
I am 34, Omnivore (Mediterranean diet). I had this diet since I was born. Dont live in the US (my country in fact has one of the highest life expectancies in the planet, on top 5. Veganism here is rare). Most of my food is organic, I dont drink or eat sugar either... unhealthy is the exception. People think I am 23. Like literally. So I doubt I do something wrong either. It's not about the meat, its about eating good quality meat, avoiding ultra-processed foods, low sugar and fat, and have large increase in vegetables, nuts, etc (but varied ) compared to your meats. Exercise at least 20 mins a day and avoid alcohol and smoking. If you do that, you will be young regardless of meat intake. I am like you I just eat meat three times a week (mostly chicken or fish, red meat once or twice a month) and I have a completely cleam medical record, perfect blood-analysis and I'm very happy.
*_Although some studies indicate a reduction in mortality associated with vegetarianism and VD, the larger body of evidence indicates that the health benefits associated with vegetarianism may be due to other “lifestyle” factors associated with socioeconomic statuses, such as adequate physical activity, low alcohol, and drug consumption, or avoidance of tobacco products. Recently, Johnston et al. argued that the evidence supporting public health recommendations to reduce or eliminate meat intake was based on questionable studies and "inappropriate analysis" [39]. This argument and the growing body of contrasting and conflicting findings create a conundrum for doctors and policymakers alike._* www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10027313/ This is what I meant.
It’s crazy that your example for a working diet is a politician, but all the regular people getting healthier after getting off the diet isn’t relevant somehow.
That’s because that information doesn’t fit his agenda. Can’t debunk a video unless you cherry pick your data to exclude anything that supports the other side of the argument. Let them live in delusion; I’ll eat steak and continue to thrive.
What's sad is that there are only vegan advocates making debunks of the video when it's just straight up counter-factual and unscientific content that should be discredited for being outright wrong rather than because it's so biased against veganism and eating plants.
You already lost the argument when you can't even debate with out being super negative, almost pejorative, to someone else's point of view. Despite what you claim, he was as neutral as one can be. Listening to you is like listening to a hate filled lecture.
I wholeheartedly agree. This guy almost gave me a headache. He seems very over emotional and irritated, which judging from someone elses comment here somewhere, seems to be nothing unusual.
This is a huge problem with the RUclips community: people correcting each other looking like fools. What we need are real discussions where the opposing channels sit together and have a meaningful conversation on the subject. At this point I believe no one, I only believe what my body and blood results tell me.
"I only believe what my body and blood results tell me." Good idea. Because one person may do extremely well on a fruits and dairy vegetarian diet and someone else may do horribly on that. If you have good insurance (or are in any other modern country in the world that has universal healthcare/single payer), get your blood work done and try not to adjust too many variables when correcting. For me, personally, I have to avoid certain foods/vegetables (I believe I've narrowed it down to FODMAPs) or it upsets my guts. I'm being more careful since my LDL is a bit elevated, too. Cardio can't solve everything. You know all this, my comment is for others. Don't believe what you see in these videos. They should be starting points to do your own research (read studies) and experiment in the kitchen. Anyway, peace, really liked your conclusory point at the end, there. Good stuff.
Excelent take. This video is only going to reach a small percentage of What I Learned subscribers, and convince even less. It would be far more useful for us viewers and for the the two channels if they had an in-person discussion. Then we can see the actual different points. (Although to be honest this video looks a lot more convincing, as it gives links to actual resources ect)
It is worst to have discussions, for what? they will only get emotional as every human do in debates.. forgeting the science to focus on who have more hability to articulate well, what we should do is investigate for ourselves if what they claim is truth or not, than you can have more confidence in one or another based on how you evaluate his research.
@@menergy3267 You're right. Thinking about it more, a debate probably wouldn't bring anything truly new or useful to the table. And yeah, I strongly believe in doing my own research, although I don't do it as much as I should.
Bruh in they didn't need they just want express themselves. This youtuber wo debunking is just response and not an actual information to be consider as he admit that What I've learned that he erasing the significance plant food in human history even not. Mic the Vegan just hate the fact that there is account debunking veganism vision. If you put this two in one place they will just argue but no will listen. You should consider their interest and action before think they valid source to follow. If you believe no one then it's better to get self study and decide what you like.
You're the calmest most sensical vegan I have ever heard speaking. You even admitted that no diet is perfect. Which is a lot better than most vegans that go out publically to speak about it does. Kudos to you for not being a screaming karen and actually made me sit and listen, and think on what you actually had to say. I don't think I could ever cut out meat entirely, especially chicken, but I do definitely think I could stand to lower it a bit. I mean, I hardly ever eat beef anymore. I think that the effort of maintaining a vegan diet is just not worth it. And besides, a healthy diet takes work, and without that work a vegan diet just falls apart. A meat eating one can get away with not giving a shit about a healthy diet... For a while at least. Until that increased cholesterol punches them right in the chest. TL;DR: There is so many variables when it comes to diets that it is not black and white on what is right and what is wrong. P.S: The American food industry is just completely horrible though. The more I hear about that country, the more I feel like it's a dystopia over there.
Societies grew specifically because they were able to cultivate large crops of starchy vegetables, grains in particular. The bulk of the ancient diet was plant based, and while meat was regularly consumed, it could never be consumed anywhere near the levels of today due to industrial animal agriculture practices not existing. The reason holidays always feature a large meat item is because most of the year you were sucking down oats, potatoes, beans, and corn or something. So having a big bird or a brisket or a big ham were a big deal because it was rare. Today we can have a holiday feast every single day if we wish. Even a casual glance at history shows all of this. I personally think "What I've Learned" channel is secretly sponsored by some keto company or something.
Maybe? I know Kurzgesagt (in a nutshell) was exposed as taking money from the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. I don't see how one guy living in Japan takes "Big Meat" money or what have you. WIL just does self improvement entertainment content. Not like he claims to be a scientist/nutritionist, so of course his stuff isn't gonna be highly researched. Everyone can make their own well informed decisions and not just have one RUclipsr's opinions taken as absolute fact.
@@Crambull I think spreading misinformation (disinformation?) and then saying “do your own research tho” is very irresponsible and hard to believe to be done without malicious intent. It’s a poor excuse because he knows his audience won’t look up his sources; that’s why he confidently misrepresent the research and then links it. Actually reading it would refute most of his claims. So how can you see it as just some guy living in Japan (why does he live there..) into self improvement? How is lying improving yourself?
I was vegan for 2 years and switched to vegetarian for 5 more years so in total 7 years without eating meat. I can attest it was the worst health point in my life. My blood work was out of whack, I was constantly getting sick all seasons of the year and started developing allergies. You can "debunk" what you want but I am living proof that vegan diet was the worst choice of my life for my health. I have since gone to back to eating plenty of fish, red meat, and poultry, dairy with plenty of salads and my health improved dramatically. Yes, DRAMATICALLY by incorporating animal based products back into my diet.
Well, I've been a vegan for a bunch of years and my blood work is always fine. In fact, better than before. (I used to suffer from cholesterol problems.) Anecdotal evidence doesn't matter. It's possible that you didn't plan your diet well or even that you hated that lifestyle so much that the stress caused by it caused the problems. The power of the mind can be amazing.
oh damn anecdotal claims, best proof on the internet, I was once on a carnivore diet then my penis just fell off, trust me bro, plus saying a vegan diet won't work for an omnivore, I don't think u people understand what omnivore means, is not you need both meat and veggies in your diet, is that you can eat both meat and veggies, is completely different
Not that drastically. Humans are humans - we all require the same nutrients. Some of us may not be able to process some nutrients or foods as well as others but that doesn't magically make us carnivores. You can get all of the nutrients you need on a vegan or omnivorous diet, but a vegan diet is obviously healthier (due to lack of cholesterol and saturated fat) and it's also more ethical and environmentally sustainable. If you don't want to be vegan, don't. But stop pushing the debunked narrative that a diet with meat and animal products is healthier.
you just killed your credibility to most people by saying "Pro meat". if your augment starts by painting some one as the bad guy or the enemy, intentional or not, the rest of your augments will fall flat for people who see that. which you are painting him as the big bad on purpose, you are trying to push an nutritive rather than making a rebuttable. for the love of god stop attacking his character and ya know actually come up with an argument against his points if i had a bottle of rum and a shot glass i would down the hole thing with the number of times you say fear mongering 2:11 Prospective studies, aka short term 3:00 was it the diet or was it him paying more attention to what he was eating and medical care? 3:20 straw man argument 4:00 key words here "adequately planed" that matters alot, you don't do the extra work then it dosent work. you cant just buy just plants be fine 4:40 attacking the crediblity of a studie do to the time it was done because the man who did it didn't have the same level of information we do now. the observation is still valid, it's part of the scientific processes 5:00 most vegan substitutes are highly pressed so it does equate to the early observations 6:00 um plan bassed diets are inharetly made of softer foods. so even if it's not the nutrition its self the switch to softer foods is still a cause of the problem 9:50 cow secretion, that not the right word here. anyways the latoce intalerent populations being shorter to those who regulatory consume milk is not something to be thrown under the bus as bad. their is a correlation, which should be looked into not dismissed. 10:00 just checked the WHO and they said that in animal testing that there was a potental corliation between the tow BUT the test was to small and inconcistent to make a strong conclustion. thus this point is mute 10:25 more cells means more chances for cancer who would have thought? i would continue but i cant find the energy, to slog through this. plus when you try to prove your point its just a head line with no context for the number you pull> this is not a debunking it's propaganda
I don't think people, especially seniors, can ingest enough protein on a vegan diet. This alone is a good reason to avoid veganism apart from other nutrients not available from plants. That said, people should be able to eat what they like without being coerced into a restricted eating regime like veganism.
16:11 The video topic at that time was fermented dish Nato and sauerkraut having Vitamin K2; the video at 16:20 switched to Vitamin K1. Vitamin K2 is more bioavaialble in meat. 18:50 hsCRp 72% lower for Vegans, P < 0.01; Vegetarians P < 0.02; no group - including Omnivores - were above threshold for hsCRP It is true that in Table 3, “Crude and adjusted mean differences of vegetarian and vegan children relative to omnivore children in bone, cardiovascular, and body iron status outcomes”, Vegans had significantly lower C-reactive protein (CRP) levels than omnivores (P < 0.001) under Model 3, which adjusted for age, sex, height z-score, and physical activity. The mean CRP level for Vegans were 0.2 mg/L, which was 72% lower than the mean level for omnivores (0.9 mg/L). Vegetarians also had lower CRP levels than omnivores (P = 0.02), with a mean of 0.6 mg/L, which was 33% lower than the omnivore mean ... but ... none of the groups had CRP levels above the threshold of 2 or 3 mg/L that indicates increased cardiovascular risk. 19:28 Dr. Belardo promotes supplementation with Vitamin B12 when being Vegan as "Animal foods are the only reliable dietary sources without fortification". The studies cited emphasize that B12 supplementation is important because without it the individual will be B12 deficient. First study "Adequate vitamin B12 and folate status of Norwegian vegans and vegetarians" - The study reports that plant-based diets may increase the risk of vitamin B12 deficiency due to limited intake of animal-source foods, while dietary folate may increase when adhering to plant-based diets. - It also states that cB12 is more accurate than serum B12 alone to assess vitamin B12 status - Average daily supplement use and older age are predictors of higher serum B12 concentrations - because probably older people are wiser :) - It concludes that Norwegian vegans and vegetarians have adequate vitamin B12 and folate status due to supplementation and that the cB12 indicator is useful to detect mild deficiency. NOTE The study does not state that vegans are not at risk of deficiency of vitamin B12, but rather that they can prevent it by taking supplements. Second study "Methylmalonic Acid Levels and their Relation with Cobalamin Supplementation in Spanish Vegetarians" - Says cobalamin deficiency is a health issue for vegetarians, especially vegans, if they do not consume supplements, as vitamin B12 is mainly found in animal products. - Spanish vegetarians have low risk of vitamin B12 deficiency due to supplementation NOTE See note on first study Third study "Micronutrient Status of Recreational Runners with Vegetarian or Non-Vegetarian Dietary Patterns" - Emphasizes a well-planned, health-conscious lacto-ovo-vegetarian and vegan diet, including supplements, to meet an athlete’s requirements of vitamin B12, vitamin D and iron - Serum B12 levels do not differ between omnivorous, lacto-ovo-vegetarian, and vegan runners, but 14% have low serum B12 concentration - Serum-folate is higher in vegans than in vegetarians NOTE See note on first study Fourth study "Micronutrient status and intake in omnivores, vegetarians and vegans in Switzerland" - States Swiss omnivores have the least amount of some vitamins and minerals in their food - magnesium, vitamin C, vitamin E, niacin and folic acid - Vegans have little calcium and not enough of D and B12 vitamins in their food. - It also finds that each group has different problems with vitamins and minerals in their body, but Vegans are supplementing not making them B12 deficient. - Urinary iodine concentration is good for all groups except for vegans who did not use iodized salt. - Zinc deficiency is highest in vegans NOTE See note on first study Just avoiding red meat does not make any diet sufficient in Vitamin B12. If the individual is not aware that their diets are deficient in B12, they might skip to supplement. The messaging perhaps should be that Vegans and Vegetarians understand more today the importance of B12 supplementation.
I just watched the What I've Learned video and your video popped up in my feed. I was curious to see an opposing view because I like to know both sides of a controversial topic. However by only 3 minutes into your video you strung together so many insults and snide comments (ad hominem attacks) directed at the person doing the What I've Learned video that I realized this was not the fact-based opposition video I was hoping for.
#firstworldproblems. All I know that in my country people went blind when meat and other animal products became extremely hard to come by. That alone makes me believe a vegan is not a choice unless you have a lot of money to spend on supplements. It's not natural nor it is easy to follow in a country where food is already expensive or hard to find.
I have no idea what weird country you live in where meat is less expensive than a _variety_ of plant foods. I've gotta assume your traditional diet is so incredibly restrictive that when you take meat out of the equation people have huge deficits. Maybe don't eat your traditional diet then? It's certainly not important enough to justify animal suffering.
@spiritnone2818 Verrry well-said.. -Both by you, @spiritnone, (and) @jamesmcbeth, above. I similarly smelled a "large rat" when reading that post.. (My apologies to nice, non-smelly rats everywhere, for using that old expression!)
Not really efficient debunking. As fear mongering.. the same or worse than the other. His studies not more convincing, lots of fruit salad displayed. Not very convincing. That rich kid is just lucky having found a nich to sell his supplements sponsor.
I think both your, and his video have merits. There is plenty of cherry picked data on your and his sides. End of the day a balanced omnivore diet the subject can adhere to is objectively the best on every axis of measurement. Being a zealot for or against anything is usually a sure sign of bias. Hopefully science figures out a way to create a middle ground, or to create food in a lab that has little harm to the environment, little harm to animals, and all the benefits of an omnivore diet.
I am a short vegan, who was a late bloomer..............but I was raised on meat and dairy while growing up, lmao!!!!!! AND now a healthy Vegan of over 17 years after being vegetarian for 6-7 years before that ;)
I have what i lived through and 10 years i went full vegan. In those days vegan was not really being promoted as a healthy diet. All they were saying was going vegan will save money. That's it and in those days it was true. But where did that get me? It got me to the hospital! I had a intestine infection, had to get a surgery to save my life and the doctor said the cause was MALNUTRITION! The vegan diet did this to me. They started feeding me sea food like squid and fish but also beef and chicken and my blood and urine quickly lost the signs of malnutrition i had. Since then a minimum of 50% of everything i eat is meat. You vegans are just a bunch of liars hired by the grain industry to promote their crap!
Whats your point? Eating a meat based diet isn't going to change your genetics just like that. You just would have been even more of a midget if you were vegan growing up.
@@EngineersQuest Are you sure about that? Because i i made a comparison, a bunch of people who only ate bread and water vs a group who only ate meat and water and the result after a month was all the bread eaters had diarrhea and were suferring from malnutrition while the meat eaters were totally fine. This is why i am calling you a liar.
@@tusk3260 Well then I'm sure glad that I don't eat just bread and water. I'm also quite sure that I know my own body, lol. Yes. I'm telling the truth no matter what you want to believe.
Humans can happily and healthily live on a whole food plant diet that's true. I have proved that to myself going 100% plant based and vegan seven years ago at the age of 50. Veganism is a lifestyle not a diet. What I've learned is that VEGAN is a very inconvenient word for most of the humans as the carnist paradigm has a very strong hold over the population. Most people would rather remain ignorant than attempt to own the cruelty that their daily actions produce in the industries that feed and clothe and entertain the masses. So meat eaters love to here anything that affirms the dominant lifestyle paradigm and lets them be distracted from what's actually happening in our world. What I'm trying to say is that it's so hard to gain any ground in this argument but Mic the vegan keeps stepping up. Thanks Mic for your tireless work and promotion of science and logic, love this channel!
I came across the video you responded to and saw this as a recommended, so I watched both. I am quite undecided about the health benefits or problems here, neither video has really convinced me. An Issue I have with this video it's that it starts out with what I would consider a poisoning of the well, and throughout generally a very condescending attitude. Not a good way to convert people. Personally I eat meat simply because it's delicious.
The issue I have with this video is that it covered a lot of quotes and not as much data. Is there a Vegan diet that doesn't require a large amount of supplementation or heavily processed foods without having to eat high calories? Edit: having watched both videos all the way through, it still looks like omnivorous diets are closest to natural and that going herbivore or carnivore will lead you to be missing something important.
Dont fall for this radical religion calling veganism, i have seen with my own eyes what this disgusting vegan diet does to people in the long term. My sister and her ex boyfriend mental health dropped considerably, went from average body weight to over 100KG!!! And no supplement in the world is saving their mental health from their really flawed logics and unbalanced behavior.
i am vegan, and i have never thought about my diet in my life, except for the ethical considirations ofc, and i feel verry healthy, so i am surprised you would ask if there is any vegan diet that needs large amounds of supplementation or processed foods or high callories. you can just eat some chickpeas, lentils and nuts and you are good in my experiance. I take no suppliments and dont really eat a lot of proccesed food, when i do it is definately not nutritious. so my diet would fall under high callories i geuss according to you? i dont really know if that is true or a problem, i am, as relatively a lot of people on a plant based diet are, on the slim side. So i dont really know what the issue with high callorie consumption is, could you explain, i am genuinely curious what you mean.
I would agree that omnivore is closest to natural, but I'd add two points: 1. That doesn't mean that the modern western levels of meat consumption are ideal; they seem to be tooo much nutritionally. 2. Most vegans are not doing it solely for nutritional reasons, they believe in the ethics of veganism. In that case, most are fine with taking a few supplements to fill some gaps (a simple multivitamin would cover it in most cases, maybe an extra omega-3 supplement if you want to optimize things, not a "large amount" of supplementation).
The only supplementation you actually need is b12. I have no idea why you think you'd have to eat heavily processed foods. Just eat a variety of greens, fruits, starches.
About the dental, gut and mental problems you say are not part of a vegan lifestyle, sorry you're wrong, i've seen it happening with my own eyes over 8 years and counting
@@morejoy5188 Of course they do not, that's why i believe real life factual events that i have seen with my own eyes over some random video anectodal evidence. Science is corrected by real life facts, not the other way around.
I understand the need for vegan diets to preserve the planet, but every vegan I know (I have known 14 for the record) has had a washed out/yellow palor to their skin. And because their food is processed and loaded with carbs, most were severely overweight. I’m also a diabetic (Type 1 - the kind you can’t reverse, as opposed to Type 2 which is caused by age or lifestyle and is reversible). Type 2 diabetes recedes with weight loss - you could just as easily reverse it with an omnivorous diet. I am a conflicted omnivore (animal cruelty and environment factors), but human beings are fundamentally omnivorous creatures. We have the large guts of herbivores, but the incisor and canine teeth of carnivores.
Funny the trope is that vegans are malnurished, anemic and underweight. Saying your on a "vegan diet" is extremely vague because you could eat the equivilent of the "SAD" (standard american diet) and overeat refined carbs/sugars and fats, or you could be "whole food/plant based" which means very little refined/processed foods, so lots of grains, beans/legums, lentils and ofc fruit&veggies. So "vegan diet" can mean anything inbetween. Also our incisors/canines are extremely small, smaller than other fruit eating monkeys, smaller than some herbivors like some specied of deer or pigs, theres also muscles in our mouths that are not present in carnivors - but a simple test is to try eating meat raw like carnivors do and you'll find out real fast that you werent supposed to eat it. We only started eating meat when we found when we cooked it that we could eat it safely. I dont have diabetes but i have heard that fiberous carbs take longer to digest and slowely release their engergy so you dont get a huge sugar rush all at once.
Why are you insulting him? Both of yall fail to address the pros of the opposing diet be he isn't insulting vegans while you are insulting him. You aren't going to convince anyone with your argument.
"Oh no he's being mean". You don't seem to understand that while it's merely a diet issue for you, it's an ethical one for vegans. They're not being "hysterical", "emotional" or "mean", they argue the way people do around _serious moral matters._
As a white meat enjoyer and a carcinogen hater I approve of this video. I don't care much about food health but What I've Learned's video is blatant slander and more people should see this video response.
I think a lot of People quit a Vegan/Vegetarian Diet because of Social Pressures, when everyone around you is always cooking and consuming Meat, you feel like you stand out, you are being judged and that you don't belong in this Social Group or something. At the end of the day, if you are true to your Values and Principles, you should have no issue sticking to whatever you put your Mind to.
Maybe you are right. Maybe he is right. What I know is that I work with hundrends of clients, and the vegan are ALWAYS the most problematic. Not saying it IS problematic, but for experience I can say that is statistically easier to face difficulties and overall poor health and energy. In many years I can recall only 2 clients who lived an healthy life as vegan. So, if you are vegan and healthy, great, if you are not, you have choices. If you are omnivore and healthy, great, if you are not, you have choices. We don't need either propaganda.. We can always try.. just don't be too fixated, that's not helpful in either direction. For sure we can always find at least one study that says the opposite of what our "counterpart" says.. And I believe neither this is useful for anyone.
Weston Price was not a crappy dentist. You should read his book before making wild assertions. Teeth are the window to the body. Price was a scientist not just a dentist. He found evidence that the tooth decay of native peoples caused by consuming western food could be arrested by returning to their native non vegetarian diets. He described it as "glassified".
Said natives had switched to a non-vegetarian western diet. Many of them had traditional diets that were mostly plant-based foods. Have _you_ read the book? It doesn't make a good case for being omnivore or carnivore as opposed to plant-based. Ultimately it makes a case against sugar and processed, industrial food. In case you don't know, the Weston A. Price Foundation which is peddling high-fat animal-centric diets today was founded in 1999 and has little to no legitimacy in claiming to be the continuity of Weston Price's ideas.
@@spiritnone2818 Yes. The health devastation was caused by Western foods. But none of these ppl were vegan. Price thought he might find a non animal food tribe in the centre of a large Pacific island but found the inland tribes traded with the coastal tribes for seafood, even during hostilities. Also recall the ppl in the high Andes who had fish eggs from the coast for their pregnant women.
If you see a pale, anemic guy, agitated, skin and bones (not counting those who take creatine, steroids etc), you can safely assume he's a vegan. Yelling at you how healthy he is while not being able to survive without popping B12 pills.
I unsubscribed from What's I've Learned a while ago due to all the animal food videos. Great to see Mic correct him on everything. Now I can just send this to friends who say otherwise
His channel is called “What I’ve Learned” yet he’s just now relying on his own personal biases. The thing is, back when I was researching diets and all, I came to the same conclusion as him and thought that animal products and fats were good. However, the more I researched, the more I found the opposite was true. The science is multilayered and can be quite complex. However, I still took the time to learn it. He on the other hand has stuck with his lies and simple world view. I wish youtube would change his username because it’s so inaccurate. His channel should be “What I’m lying about today”
@@じゃみっと Yes, I say that because I’ve tried plant based & had to quit. Even though I didn’t want to, my body told me I had to & I immediately felt better including animal based foods back into my diet.
"what i've learned" presents lies with a little truth mixed in. I always felt something off about his videos. He is either suffering from cognitive dissonance or he's got other people in his pockets.
Ah people like you are silly. Most people are this way really. No time to do the work yourself, just gonna go to a youtube echo chamber where you can dismiss what the other guy said while you feel comforted by hearing what you want to hear from this guy. It's universally stupid. There is not critical thinking anymore. And people are just full of confirmation bias. Riddled with it, like cancer. Sad
The majority of people in the comment section are biases of veganism. So let this message of mine take the defensive side of meats as part of our main and balanced diet. They fail to realise that omnivores are far superior to carnivores and herbivores, and we adapt to eat both so we can gain nutrients from meats and vegetables. Yes, vegetables are healthy. But let us talk about our other bodily needs, something that we also need since our daily activities need it too. Where do muscles are built? From meat. Stabilize our mood and brain function? From meat. What is the main component of making blood? Iron from meat. Cell groth, bone fortification, and immune system sharpening? All came from the meat we eat. If we take those away for the sake of keeping animals safe and for the environment. It will be a mess for both sides. Animal population will grow and exceed beyond their usual size, the environment will run out of area and supplies for the animals, and then us here, slowly dying from diseases like anemia, weak muscles, brittile hair/nails, neural incompatibility, et al. Now, let's talk about things vegans eat. Mayonnaise is partially made of eggs, which came from chickens. Milk, white liquid of chalk and fat came from cows, don't lie, you drink it. Cheese, it's tasty. You haven't made one year without eating a single slice hidden in your bread. It's the circle of life, the loop mother nature made. If a lion gets to kill you first, then the lion gets to eat. If you haven't eaten, full of determination, of course, you would kill the lion first. We humans are not used to eating grasses or leaves that grow from the ground, so take that vegans. Also, "vegan" products are much like the oncoming waves of minimalist aesthetic and other trends. They are not body friendly as those foods are heavily processed and full of chemicals. And that's my ladies and gentlemen, is my defense of meat. Balance diet is far superior to those in meat or vegan diet sides.
I'm an omnivore but after watching that vid I immediately went to look for debunk bc he's very strongly and obviously biased. My biggest wtf point was when he said reducing fiber to zero completely solves constipation. And praising all meat diets (bc those have such a great records and have no quitters, right?)
This is a response video. He's pointing out the other guys mistakes and defending a vegan diet, yes he didn't mention that but he also this mention the pescatarian diet at all lol. But honestly from the recent levels of micro plastics found in fish, I would eat it :/
@@Leandro_SWR 💯 - also, - if I sponsored & promoted a diet that fundamentally abused other species incl. 🐟 I would definitely be concerned about the micro plastics found in fish. Put simply, FISH ARE NO LONGER HEALTHY. THEY CAUSE CANCER & AT THE VERY LEAST PLAY HAVOC WITH YOUR HORMONE LEVELS - because of the micro plastics!
My only concern with the vegan diet is when people claim that it is a natural "human" diet. If it was a natural diet, why is it that vegans have to take supplements to keep on their diet? Why is it that pure vegan woman eventually have health complications that are severe, such as loosing their periods? if you want to do a vegan diet for moral reasons, just say it. However, do not claim that it is natural for humans, as the cornerstone of human evolution (invention of tools) was ignited by the ability to hunt for meat.
@@focusedstudying8993A funny thing is that researchers have found, humans were most likely vegans for the most part of our history. So not only we were able to be vegan as you mentioned, but we were naturally vegan.
I got fat eating vegan, I will never eat another vegetable again. Bad skin, bad nail, bad hair, bad intestine health, they almost destroyed my intestines, as long as I don't have to kill the cow I'll eat it. So as long as I can buy steaks or hamburger I'm a carnivore and I really liking it so far this is my first day on full carnivore, today I ate 3 slightly larger patties than 1/4lb each, and I just got finished eating a 1/2 a ribeye cooked in butter in the skillet with nothing more than a little salt when it was on my plate.
How insanely genetically subpar do you have to be to need to eat a diet none of your ancestors could've had access to? We've been agriculturalists for thousands of years now. Dysgenic freak lmao
Can any one explain to me the following I was 25 kg 55 lbs over weight. Had blood pressure around 85 140. On reflux meds. Had arthritis needing strong pain meds. Told by an endocrinologist I would be diabetes real soon. Sugar was around 11. Suffered severe constipation, going as long as a week plus between movements. I changed to Whole Food Plant Bassd diet. In 5 months I dropped 20 kg 44lbs. Went off BP meds and was around 125 70. No longer needed reflux meds, I had taken for 20 years. No longer needed pain meds for arthritis. My last sugar reading was around 5. I have 2 to 3 bowel movements a day, and the paper work is the longest part of it. Well I can tell you why. I was meant to eat plants. As a boy I liked my veggies. In particular mashed potatoe. I never did like taking an hour to chew an old piece of boot leather some call steak. As for liver, the only good thing was the washing up.
You switched to a diet that caused you to lose weight. Resolving both your blood sugar & cardiovascular stressors. Both of which are heavily impacted by being overweight. You reflux resolution is probably a result of your entire upheaval of your diet. When you change to vegan - you usually don't just change to eating anything that isn't meat. You typically also stop eating things associated with meat (high fat sauces etc..) You weren't meant to be a plant eater - no vegan in their right mind actually thinks that. If you wanted to actually scientifically challenge your beliefs - you could start introducing meat products into your diet - and you'll very likely find that it wasn't meat that was the cause of your problems.
@@Wataheadable Why would he though? If he is feeling healthy on a plant based diet and swears by it, it's objectively better for everyone. Smaller environmental impact, less stress on the medical system, less risk of some of the illnesses mentioned in this video AND less animal suffering!
Excellent choice . Of course , ALL meat-eating apologists never talk about human evolution and how , over hundreds of thousands of years , our teeth and our digestive systems resemble herbivores than it ever will real actual carnivores like lions or even genuine omnivores like bears . They never ever ever do that . Why? Because they fail to address how difficult , more labor-intensive and expensive meat has always been to obtain than plants for humans . What we had more available to us as food shaped our bodies . Netflix had a documentary about chimps , our closest relatives in the animal world, in the wild a few months ago . Two rival chimp clans were constantly fighting each other and on the way home from a fight one of the clans saw some small howler-type monkeys in the trees and successfully hunted them down, killed them and ate them raw on the spot . The next day it showed this same clan eating fruit from a tree and the documentary noted that fruits and plants made up 95-98% of their diets . Iow the little monkeys were just the occasional opportunity to “ have a little something different .” They were nowhere near what the chimps or their ancestors survived on . Catching those monkeys was much more labor-intensive than climbing fruit trees . Their was a s-load more vegan food available to them than there were little monkeys . That was a great little microcosm of the evolution of human beings and what made us have the bodies we have today . As a pastor , years ago I did research on Luke 15, the Parable of the Prodigal Son. One commentator made the point that he had calculated that a “ fatted calf” , which his dad was going to kill for the prodigal son to celebrate his birthday , in Jesus’ primitive culture of first century AD Palestine was equivalent to a brand new Mercedes-Benz in America today . Cows were expensive af back then ! That’s why only the rich and powerful ever ate them. And the best the average Palestinian peasant was almost vegetarian by default because ALL meat tended to be expensive and/ or labor-intensive . Usually the best they could do was the occasional fish from the Sea of Galilee. That chimp anecdote and the sermon preparation anecdote both speak the truth of how plant-eating has shaped human form and health from the very beginning til now . That’s why lions don’t die from heart attacks by eating raw meat but we do , either from parasites in the meat or from the fat in the meat . It’s why lions have a short digestive system and ours is yards and yards long like herbivores . You simply cannot justify the glorification of meat-eating from a human evolution standpoint .
It's because plants are low in cal (that's how you lost weight), low in saturated fat, and contain a high amount of fibre (that's why you have bowel movements more frequently). You're definitely deficient in vitamin B12, creatine, protein, calcium, iron, vitamin D, zinc, omega 3. (All of these may make your brain functions and muscle strength weaker) And you're also missing on delicious foods
I was indoctrinated to try to get myself to blink my eyes 1 time per minute so I could get my eyelids to last much longer, but I went back to my intuition of about 15 times per minute without thinking about it. The 8.7 million species of animals have a 100% success rate with their species diet as long as they had access to the food and no accidents happened. If a vegan diet does not have 100% success rate with simple intuition and instinct based on exact evolution, then someone is trying to outsmart nature and the ecosystem which will have a 100% failure rate until proven otherwise.
No. You are trying to outsmart nature by eating animals that have only existed for thousands but no even 10s if thousands of years. So, your argument of :" We've been eating animals for millions of years doesn't apply to the animals'we' as homosapiens eat right now. The animals our species eat right now have been bred into existence as farm animals.
Humans are a self-domesticated species. We can't be compared to others, we have adapted to a variety of artificial environment over thousands of years. There is no clear "default natural diet" to reproduce artificially. And you can't trust your instinct to reproduce it, because we're like most animals who, given unlimited access to food, do eat too much, too caloric-dense, and become unhealthy.
I just watched 5 minutes of your video until you mentioned other ex-vegans who you responded to in other videos. If I want to be honest with you, I didn't like your tone mentioning other people including the "what I've learned" channel presenter, and on the other hand, if veganism (or vegetarianism) is logical and scientific this video shouldn't exist. I have already should found out the benefits of veganism (both in my body and environment) and switched to it but I don't because it is not. I don't want to mention false or even misleading info in some other videos, sites, or papers. I think this kind of video has more negative effects than positive. Good luck with your job but only time can reveal the truth. I wish you the best.
Genuinely curious, you do know for 99% of human evolution and history we did not have a vegan diet, we specifically evolved as omnivores, and there are many many many mammals who are omnivores or meat only(yes there is also mammals that are plant only but humans are not one of them). What is your genuine argument against this? That your modern "im better than you" diet that is basically impossible to live on when below the poverty line is.. better than what nature and evolution itself gave us? How? It is genuinely flabberghasting.
Our closest evolutionary relatives (primates) eat mostly plant-based, they just eat a littttle bit of meat. If you want to be 100% vegan for ethical reasons, it can be very healthy, you just need to be careful about a few nutrients, it doesn't need to be super expensive.
I love how you commented that our modern shoes collapse our arches, i started sleeping on the floor and got myself a few pairs of barefoot shoes. I wish people knew all the products were sold or told are "premium comfort" and stuff like that is literally encouraging us to waste away faster
Mic. You are one of the greats! You give me hope when you clap back at this anti-vegan propaganda. I've been vegan nearly 10 years and I get so exhausted trying to defend the lifestyle. But I get renewed energy when I see you so eloquently respond to even 40 minute videos. May you never become tired of the work you do. Much love
yes you're exhausted because you eat like a bunny I would be exhausted too. I love how you guys don't understand you're in the by far minority and are the crazy ones. It's really like a cult, a small minority that believes in absolutely insane ideas is somehow convinced that everyone else is wrong and all of human history ate wrong. I hope you get help I'm sorry you're suffering from this mental illness
Hi, I hear you. I read an interesting article where someone (not vegan) stated they do not justify who they are or respond to criticism. I tell humans to watch "earthlings" and tell me how much they enjoy it. Sadly, the omnivore world often leads vegans to defending our choices and debunking lies and assumptions. I also believe the animal ag industry hires thousands of trolls who follow blogs and video's, placing doubt and stupid anti-vegan comments all over. cheers.
My bias: I tend to be ketovore/carnivore. My comment: You share observational studies that only show a possible association or correlation yet there are many low carb verses low fat studies which show causation which show that the low carb approach is safe. Why rely on observational studies if the RCTs have already been done. Your followers should know that 80% of observational (hypothesis generating) studies are proven wrong when the RCTs are done. Anyone of your followers can simply search, Healthline, 23 studies on low carb and low fat: time to end the fad or low carb verses low fat studies by the Public Health Collaborative which shares the RCTs. It's not honest to suggest that plant based diets are the best way to achieve longevity when in Hong Kong, they eat on average two steaks per person per day and regularly achieve longest lifespans. I ask my patients to eat real food, avoid processed food, sugar, refined grains, and choose the dietary pattern that works for them. Lets focus on where we have common ground
@@letransformateur6477 Thanks for asking. RCT=Randomized Controlled Trail. As opposed to observational research where we use surveys or computer data, RCTs are real research. Randomized controlled trials (RCTs) are considered the gold standard for clinical research, thus having a high impact on clinical guidelines and our daily patients’ care. However, various treatment strategies which we consider “evidence based” have never been subject to a prospective RCT like those observational studies. It's okay to use observational studies when it's considered unethical to withheld an established treatment to individuals in an placebo controlled trial but thankfully we do have RCTs as previously shared. So relying on observational studies when we have RCTs is not logical
disclaimer: i'm not vegan. i genuinely think the main issue with vegan diets is that most people people are genuinely very bad at making them balanced. talking mostly about americans/canadians/australians/some western europeans here. most of these people are SO used to heavily meat-based diets that they don't understand what a balanced diet without meat and animal products looks like (to be fair, i don't really either - i could eat healthy vegetarian but i've never cut out dairy before and don't know how to do so). most of the people i've seen try a vegan diet will cut out all the foods they need to cut out but not add in stuff like nuts and seeds or enough vegetables or fruits etc. it will basically be exactly the same diet they were eating before except this time instead of chicken it's tofu or chickpeas or something. which doesn't 100% substitute for all the nutrients you get from that meat. people who used to have a lot of yogurt will stop but they won't start eating other non dairy foods that provide those same nutrients. i do think there are individuals for whom vegan diets won't work. not because it's unhealthy (because it's not) but because they straight up just won't get all the necessary nutrients because of the way they eat. personally i know i won't because i'm already usually on the edge of being protein deficient and i do not like vegan high in protein foods enough to eat a sufficient amount of them to be healthy. but that's very different to what this guy is saying. he should honestly just admit that he doesn't want to go vegan and leave it at that.
Depends on what circle of people you talk to. There's for sure a lot of BS and a lot of bias on both sides of the spectrum, but the fact is that at least a diet with predominantly whole food plants is what's recommended by every major health institute and governmental health organisations, and I'd say most vegans are at least more aware of that and nutrition in general than most omnivores or carnivores just out of necessity. It's kind of necessary if you'd like to survive as a vegan when most of society is against you.
@@Ermude10 Well. Im not against you. Omnivore here btw. Tried vegan. Didnt work. But when i started eat beef almost daily i never got sick again! We are all different. But fun fact is that there hasnt never been a vegan tribes.
@@lagzy-861 Sure there's never been vegan "tribes" but there's definitely been (and still exist) small vegan societies such as the Jains. I'm vegan, and while I think it's entirely possible for the majority of people to live a healthy life on a plant based diet, I also do think that a small amount of animal food is probably beneficial health-wise to cover up the areas that's hard to get from a pure plant based diet. But that amount is waaay lower than what any normal omnivore is eating in the western world. So if it was purely for my health, I'd probably eat just a little bit of animal foods at levels where it doesn't significantly increase the risk factors. But ultimately, I'm vegan for ethical reason. The horrors we put billions (and trillions if counting sea life) _every year_ is the greatest tragedy in the history on earth.
Jains are not even on a veganic dietary pattern, they drink milk and consume dairy products. besides, Jainism is far older than veganism, so you can't call them 'vegan' societies. also, the use of loaded language is not considered even close to an argument. I do, however, respect your ethical convictions and encourage you to keep abstaining from meat. mistakes are the helluva good way to learn @@Ermude10
You mean “ informed.” There, fixed it . As someone who does precious little research on the subject , I can see how you would be threatened by accurate information that challenges what you like to eat
I'm a whati'velearned subscriber and ofc this is such a complex thing with so much conflicting information that I personally can't say anything conclusive. I'm just happy we have a platform like youtube so everybody can share information and discuss things. At the end of the day I always feel like I don't know shit..I just think I do
Unfortunately it's not about "discussion" It's about *dishonesty*. Cherry picking studies funded by meat corporations and also avoiding pro vegan aspects of other studies that he uses is not "a healthy discussion". It's him making money by supporting rich people
@@petyrbaelish2000 I thought about cherry picking for a while, but that's what most ppl do. It is however a valid argument. I basically subscribed to Mic because I love debunking videos, especially when it comes to my fav channels
WIL is utter bullshit pseudoscience. the channel regularly features crackpots like jordan peterson. if WIL has earned your subscription you should seriously turn off youtube and look at the positions of organizations like the WHO, NIH, and AHA on how ineffective to terrible the things WIL recommends really are for you.
I used to be vegan for 14 y, this is the reason why I still follow and listen to your videos. Unfortunately, I almost died because of 2 autoimmune disease that apperead during this period: a hormonal one and a digestive one. I tried all I could to not fell of the vegan vagon until I could not eat fibre anymore. I got intolerant to it, which is the worst thing ever. My intestines were shredded and I still recover, after 5 years not being vegan anymore. I respect the orthodox lent which means 40 days plant-based. And the last one had such a bad influence for my body, that I was forced to stop eating any plant... I am carnivore now, not because I wanted, but because I can't eat anything else! I hope in the future I will be able to eat again at least fruits. So, in conclusion, there is no such thing as a perfect diet for everyone. I would never ever go vegan again and nor recommend it to anyone. And I'm not the only struggling. From the vegan community I was part of, plenty of people failed on this way of life. And are now struggling to be healthy again. So we have to be a bit skeptic about anything, to keep our minds open and to tell people that it may not help them. Again, vegan food is not for everybody. Your love for animals shall not kill you. Have a happy and fulfilling life!
After watching both videos it is funny how just by attitude alone I prefer the other one, this guy is acting so snobbish and elitist, but then most of his "debunks" can be said equally to vegan diets. Most studies on the vegan side are paid by vegan rich people to make the other side look bad. Instead of being the smarter man and saying "as humans we are all different and some can live with meat, without meat, etc, but no diet is for everyone" he decided to act as all he knows is right. Immediate downvote. Nothing is good in excess.
He did not say that a vegan diet causes crooked teeth. However, if you put it in the context, it belongs your processed veggie dogs, and my stupid hotdogs do the same thing to the teeth. And if you would get off your vegan high horse for just two seconds, you would understand that peanuts are better than peanut butter. Because it gives your mouth a work out something to chew on. Now a State would be better than apple sauce or even hamburger because once again, it gives your mouth something to chew on. But if we really have to go some thing as far as a plan to bass an apple, rather than applesauce, a steak rather than hamburger that type of thing. Quit accusing people of taking stuff out of context when you can’t stop taking stuff out of context, your own damn self.
Hi! I've had this question for a while, and can't seem to find an answer to it. One of the arguments people use is that vegans are not healthier because they're vegan, but because they're more health conscious in general; e.g. not eating highly processed foods, exercise etc. There are some studies that seem to point toward that direction. What do you think?
The adventist health study 2 covers this. They are ALL health conscious. Regular excercise, no alcohol, high community role and purpose. They were seperated into four sub groups meat eating, pescatarian, vegetarian , vegan. Meat eating group performed the worst out of all groups across all mortality/health indicaters. The pescatarian and vegan groups were the best performers with pesco coming out insignificantly better which authors mentioned in the limitations having no real difference between the two diets with deviation or marginal error.
16:54 On better CVD profile. The study mentioned stating a "favorable" CVD profile leans to the bias of what favorable means (Lipid profile, inflammation markers, nutrition, etc). That same study shows all groups have relatively low HOMA-IR and hsCRP levels. However, the TG:HDL ratio is lowest for Omnivores and that makes having the highest Total cholesterol and LDL is meaningless. The concordance demonstrated in the Framingham study shows this. "In vegans, high estimated intakes of fiber, folate, vitamin C, carotenoids, and magnesium and low saturated fat, cholesterol, and sucrose indicate an 'unprocessed' type of PBD, which may explain their more favorable CVD risk profile." Compared to SAD and a diet with ultra-processed food and food made with processed or even Cold-pressed Seed oils, a well-planned Vegan diet with supplementation will indeed be better.
I think the Blue Zone diet is the best given that those people live the longest. I try to read about all the people that live longest and find out about their diet and I just about never hear they are vegetarians or vegans. They all have healthy diets that include some meat. Mostly plants but not completely meat-free.
One blue zone---- Loma Linda, put it to the test.... They have a significant portion of vegetarians and vegans as well as meat eaters (fish, poultry, red meat) . Vegans (not vegetarians) out performed their health conscious meat eating group counterparts. Pescitarians (eating fish once or twice) were on par with vegans and authors confirmed that limitations addressed the margin was very insignificant (pesco marginaly and insignificantly better on paper) So if your angle is health, be as plant based as possible. No need for copius amounts of meat
When I cut down my meat consumption, I felt low energy and weak. When I greatly cut out flour and wheat from my diet, I started to feel way better, less gut problems and more alert. When I finally cut out vegetables from my diet (of meat and veggies) I felt the same (I do feel less bloated). I still feel great on a mainly meat diet after cutting veggies 5 years ago.
@@skeptic_lemon Why doesn't it sound healthy? Veggies and whole plants for the most part don't taste good, that's your body telling us not to eat that junk. Humans are weird, we ignore our senses.
The reason vegans often are healthier than non-vegans is because when u r vegan that often means you live a healthy lifestyle. You cant compare vegans to omnivores since most omnivores are just people who eat mcdonalds, which is obviously not healthy. However, for people who eat natural foods like red meat and live a healthy lifestlye, they will probably be healthier than vegans since they dont need to take like 30 vitamins. Also, you acting like hes biased(which he is) but you are too. Youre litterally a vegan, so dont call him out for what you have too. I agree with you on the teeth thing tho
as a vegan all you need to take is b 12. and omnis get it also unnaturally because animals get it as a subliment themselves. so " 30 vitamins " is wrong if you eat healthy.
@@Tiifa90 I definetly exaggerated. However, doesn't the fact that you have to take a supplement already tell you being vegan isn't the best diet? Also, the supplement is never gonna be as good as the real thing.
I feel that veganism works for some ppl and omnivorism works for others. And carnivorism works for others too. There was a study that showed that about 5% of people in Northern Europe are lactose jntolerant but 80% of the people in Asia, and Africa, are lactose intolerant but most Afrjcans and Asians still eat dairy from time to time. There was another study that was done on Inuit people that showed that they've genetically become able to have a good diet even with Mostly seal consumption. See . Different things work for different people in my opinion. We should let people eat what they want. The only time we should stop a person from doing something is when it harms the livelihoods of other less fortunate people or it puts theblife of other people in danger.
Usually response videos are longer than the video they are a response to, but this response is 25% shorter than WIL's video. At most 10 minutes of WIL's video is shown here, indicating that you filtered out all the things that you couldn't argue against. Comparing exercise with veganism in terms of drop out rate is ridiculous. Vegans stop being vegan because they experience nutritional problem, whereas the people who skip exercise do it for several reason including not enough time, not enough benefits and the list goes on. No one skip exercise because it has a bad effect on their health. A significant difference between the two video's is that WIL argued that vegan is not enough, i.e some intake of animal products is necessary, while you argue that you should avoid animal products. WIL's argument is that you can't get all necessary nutrients through a vegan diet unless you also take supplements, which you actually prove you agree to yourself by willingly being sponsored by a supplement product. if you live in an area without accces to a pharmacy you can't get the supplements, which means that you have to include animal products in your diet. And all the complications that you mention is not due to the intake of animal products, but rather that you have a too high intake of animal products in relation to non-animal products. I am a meat eater myself, but I love a vegan meals once in a while. I actually know a ton of delicious vegan dishes.
"Vegans stop being vegan because they experience nutritional problem" You have no evidence for that. Of course people will _claim_ that, they're not gonna say "I stopped because I loved bacon so much". But in my experience, most of the time, all you'll hear people say were those nutritional problems were either deficiencies easily solved within a vegan diet or stuff about them feeling "tired", while no scientific study has ever established a causal link there. The only supplement you really need is b12. Most people have huge "deficits" going by ideal amounts of nutrient intakes btw. And yet they do just fine. I suspect the nutrient deficit stuff in general is overblown diet hysteria. You can be and feel healthy on just about any popular diet imo.
I've watched both videos and at the end I'm mixed about if vegan diet is the way to go or not... I'll just stick to the diet I'm currently on, with about 89% of my diet being plant based (mostly frozen veggies, mushrooms, with wreaths in form of tortillas and mixed nuts and dried fruits) and 9% of it being meat (mostly fish, shrimps and other aquatic creatures... I probably need to put milk, honey and butter in my diet) the remaining is just sweets, snackos and street food
Why mostly frozen veggies? Why not a more healthy mix of plant based foods in there (fresh fruit & veggies, legumes, nuts, seeds, mushrooms)? Notice I'm not saying anything about your animal products. Why would you want to add milk & butter?
@@mayhu3282 there are some people saying that frozen foods are healthier because they pack more nutrients than unfrozen foods, due to them being frozen asap, the nutrients in them don't degrade as much as if left unfrozen... I added milk to my diet cause I don't want to rely on supplements, had a checkup lately and the doc also suggested I add more spinach and tuna cause I'm lacking in nutrients that they have... it's dangerous playing with your health by forcing a strict diet, heck even herbivores like goats snack on smaller animals sometimes...
I have looked into human health. Not a professional, but I have made some observations as a lay person. Humans require both cobalamin (vitamin B-12) which has only two sources, one is meat, and the other is a bacterium that is occasionally brewed up in brewer's yeast (not all, which is why some yeasts have B-12, and some don't!) . Some people have trouble absorbing the cobalamin from the bacterial source. I am one of them. Another vitamin humans need is vitamin C. This can only be had from vegetation. Long story short. My observation is Humans require BOTH Plants and animal foods. We are Omnivores.
B12 isn't created BY the animal but can sometimes be created IN the animal by gut bacteria, but generally they have to eat B12 from somewhere else. Normally the animals would get B12 from bugs/bacteria in their diet, but on the factory farms they try to maintain conditions that prevent growth of bugs/bacteria. The animals are instead given supplements for B12, so eating factory farmed meat to get B12 is just taking supplements by proxy. We were designed to eat a bit of bugs/bacteria. Fermented foods are a good thing to consider.
B12 has other sources, like soils and algae. And at most you're making a case for vegetarianism here. That's assuming there's anything evil about taking a single supplement, which there isn't, though, so this is just not serious.
Ah, you need to look at the real problem : sugar and processed food. Veganism is dangerous, just eat all healthy food, which includes veggies and meats.
Arguing that meat is carcinogenic is quite idiotic imo, you just need to look at the track record and how much more meat people used to eat, and despite that, the rates of cancer were way lower than they currently are.
Very true. My kids have never had a "stomach bug" or any kind of food poisoning or bad flu. When they say they feel sick it's just a sore throat or runny nose 99% of the time, which makes me laugh, but also smile :)
Interesting how he didn’t want to interview someone like me who saw an incredible improvement in my digestive system since going vegan. Massive cramping, issues going and bloating and abdominal pain was all a norm in my life until going vegan. That doesn’t mean I haven’t experienced any issues since going vegan, things with high amounts of oil or grease will trigger a bad digestive reaction, so I pretty much just stay away from fried foods to avoid that. Otherwise, my vegan diet has basically healed my digestive system.
When I tried to be a vegetarian, the result was that I farted continuously, had 5-7 bowel movements with diarrhea daily, brain fog. lack of concentration and chronic fatigue. All that gone when moved to low carb/keto. Not prediabetes signs and lab results like during omnivore and vegetarian, weight reduction from 106 to 76 kg and stable there. Much better physical performance. So?
@@jimyhendrix492 Was your diet largely unprocessed green leafies, fruit, nuts and seeds? The people in a study I'm involved in often had that spectrum of symptoms prior to dietary correction because they misunderstood what a primate (we are great apes) diet actually is, and were consuming lots of grains, bread, cereals, pseudo-meats, and simple carbs (in addition to an insufficient handful of fruits and veggies). The true primate diet contains LOTS of fruit and leafy greens that are high protein, and nuts and seeds with appropriate fatty acid profiles. It may also contain the occasional insect or small critter. This diet will prevent, not cause, insulin spikes. Unfortunately, the Western 'vegan' diet is often waaaaaaay off.
@@jimyhendrix492 Humans SHOULD have more than one bowel movement daily, likely 2-3, and will if they have sufficient fibrous bulk in their gut, with the corresponding correct gut flora. There should not be diarrhea, excessive gas or the other symptoms you mentioned. That spectrum of symptoms is the classic set of signs indicating maladjustment to an inappropriate ratio of food types, perhaps including ones that should never be eaten at all. Can't say for sure though, as I don't know precisely what you diet consisted of.
@@mountaingirl1753 Yes! That's why I switched to keto and now I have 2-3 bowel movements in the morning, no bloating, normal weight and much better physical and, most of all, cognitive performance.
About reversing diabetes, you can reverse diabetes on vegan keto, not on the diabetic's plate. For people with high sugar they're(ADA is) recommending more sugar. Doctors are taking most people off of insulin using keto. In fact, there is no need for carbs. While there are essential proteins and fatty acids, there are no essential carbohydrates.
lmao, i'm 100% unvaxed and almost full carnivore meat predominant diet... only had COVID twice, but both experiences was very mild... same with the rest of my family who are also meat eaters.. unvaxxed and COVID didn't phase us one bit.. the sources in this video is fake news bruh.
Nobody cares about your anecdotal experience. Most people's experience with COVID was mild anyway, vaxxed or not, it wasn't a very virulent disease. The problem was how contagious it was and dangerous for people with comorbidities. The studies still establish what they do however.
It seems the removal of ultra-processed foods/ sugars is the key that both sides agree on
Yes, but when you do that with a plant based diet, it has great health benefits. Lots of red meat and processed sugar cause big problems.
@@jordanhalmosman9957 tf you taking about. Its usualy the plant eaters that consume a lot of sugar. Carnivores never feel the need to consume cookies or any of that shi
Speaking as someone who spent 21 years vegan who now eats lots of meat because of health issues I encountered, I can see that both sides of this debate are bringing valid points and are also stretching data to fit their biases.
Frankly, vegans love to cite studies about obesity, heart disease, diabetes, and cancer, because those are all diseases of over-consumption of certain nutrients that vegan diets are very low in, so a vegan diet creates a buffer from these diseases.
Similarly, meat eaters love to quote studies about autoimmune diseases and neurological diseases, because these are often diets driven by under-consumption of nutrients that vegan diets are low in, so eating meat creates a buffer from those diseases.
Frankly, both of you entered into this with an agenda about what you were setting out to prove and shifted the data as hard as possible to fit that narrative rather than doing the proper journalism of conveying the real clear truth that doesn’t fit neatly into either of your ideological boxes.
Well said.
@@bastianfuentes8335 Oh no, they would call crusades on each other if this would be the medieval times.
People this zelaous about a topic are inherently evil, depending on one's definition of course.
Dude went both extremes to find out the answer lies in the middle, as always 😁
It doesn’t help the case for eating animal products when you factor in more of the ethical and environmental concerns.
Animal agriculture is a leading cause of deforestation, land/ water use, ocean dead zones, species extinction, antibiotic resistance, zoonotic disease, crop deaths (which is a problem with plants, but to a much lesser degree when comparing on a per calorie basis), and overall animal suffering. Even this fantasy land of “ethical family farming” has huge problems with sustainability and ethics, especially because many of them are still intertwined with factory farming in some way. Why commodify sentient animals at all if there’s rarely a sufficient justification for it?
@@matthewzang6688 These statements are simply not true. Lets use water usage as a prime example. over 90% of "water usage" listed in the stats for water used in the production of meat is simply the rain water that happens to fall on the land that the cows live on. Then, on top of that, they don't subtract the water that the cows pee back out from that number, which again, is a majority of the water leftover. You know what DOES use a ton of water though? Almond production. One of the primary vegan replacements for protein and dairy is a leading cause of drought in California. I could go through point by point with each of your claims here but their aren't enough hours in the day. Start looking into claims made by people who disagree with you. I did, and after 21 years of veganism I'm now living a far healthier and more ethical life by consuming meat.
He basically said 100% plant based diet is not the best choice.
Not "the best diet is 100% animal based diet".
💯💯💯
Which is true
how do you work that out when meat give us everything we need unlike a plant based diet ?
@@opticalman6417 it doesn't, though. There's no vitamin C, for instance and very small amounts of other vitamins. There's no fiber either.
nobody said that here...
I'm 67 and I've been a vegan/vegetarian for most of 35 years. My health is Excellent and my blood tests/urine tests are Excellent. I eat 5 or 6 servings of Raw fruits and veggies every day. I've eaten raw fruits and veggies my entire life with No adverse health effects. I recently had a cardiovascular test that showed No problems. My daily intake of salt, fat and sugar is low and salt, sugar is especially low.
The thing is you are saying that he omits a lot details and ignores some of the result but at the same time you’re ignoring the fact that those people who choose to be vegan are not only eating plant based but also exercising and in general avoid all the unhealthy behaviors which cause problems with blood pressure, cholesterol levels. You are biased, I think he is too, there is no data proving that going vegan is better than eating healthy on a regular diet. Period.
Exactly where is the unbiased truth in journalism ?
There is data proving that. Mic cites study after study showing it.
I watched both side’s opinions and tried both and more for years. I don’t necessary agree with both RUclipsrs because they both “cherry-pick” their studies to support their opinions. What I learned is that a balance diet will work better for majority of the people. Talk abt the extreme is pointless for most, this isn’t a mathematical problem. But I can say one thing tho, a perfect vegan diet is dang hard and expensive to live with in the western countries while a carnivore diet is even harder and more expensive to do in Asia ; ) so maybe it’s all abt money overall.
That isn't true at all.
In most developed nations in the West with steady supply lines, plant-based products are cheaper.
Go to any supermarket and compare.
If I still lived on meat / dairy, the way the economy is at the moment, I would be a lot poorer.
@@JB.zero.zero.1 I will ask you to do some calculations with macro and micro nutritions first, then times that value with the absorption rate/bioavailability of the nutrition from different diet, and view it from this perspective again. Don’t forget to add the cost of supplements. My point is to do the diet right, doing the plant based diet right is so hard that most ppl don’t know they are doing it sub optimal. It’s not a coincidence that most vegans do fit in the “skinny” side of stereotype. On the other hand, doing a meat based diet, most ppl will hit every check box right with the same amount of money spent. BUT the problem is that they tended to eat TOO MUCH.
PS: I went to my local market and bought some vine ripe tomatoes the other day and I ended up with a bag of 5 decent size tomatoes for 7 bucks. How many calories is that and what’s the nutritional value? Not too much right? But for 7 bucks, I can buy a pound of usda choice steak, or 2 dozens of good eggs. That’s easily 2 days worth of food assuming you don’t over eat lol
Sure you can choose everything organic, which will dramatically increase the price of a meat based diet. But personally I still found it cheaper than a plant based diet here in the states.
what a stupid comment
@@JB.zero.zero.1 Where i live beef is 2.19 a pound. Carrots are 3.49 a pound lettuce is like 2.49 and almost every other vegetable is more. The only exception would be fruits like bananas that are 1.19 a pound here
My takeaway after watching both videos: they're both wrong about things and cherry picking. This video does a good job of pointing that out from the other video, but I found his "debunking" of the digestive issues weak as hell as a good example of how he's poorly debunking. The video started out strong with citing multiple sources to debunk the dental health issues from the "WIL" video, but it seems to slowly roll down hill from there. I only watched this video because the WIL video seemed so far past what I understand is the scientific consensus which is basically "Yes you can be vegan and be healthy, but you need to be a little more particular to make sure you're getting certain foods in your diet than someone who has animal products in their diet." Of course, like with all things, swinging the opposite direction can have a ton of issues also. Like eating too much meat is just as bad for you as a raw vegan diet.
Thank you!!! I saw that stupid video and immediately replied:
Vlogger: "Vegan diets don't work!"
*asks zero vegans and consults zero science, then makes video
Also, let's take you on a nice animal agriculture tour and make you watch the terror, the cruelty, and the actual tears rolling down the animals' faces. THEN do your little rant about vegan diets.
What logic would tell anyone that eating the decomposing, burnt flesh of another being is healthy? The lengths people will go to in effort to maintain their comfort level is astonishing! Dead animals rotting flesh, their mucus, and puss filled secretions are not food. That is money in the industries pockets! Disease, and death for us
shut up meat gives people many proteins, but it doesn't give people every they need the same for plants overall be a omnivore
I'm not vegan, but I'm certainly not pro-meat either. When I saw the thumbnail for that video I was suspicious and snooped a little on the channel and it became obvious it was just pro-meat propaganda, especially since that's not the dude's only video on the subject. I do not understand why people are so antagonistic to the idea that maybe we should eat less meat.
Really great debunking here! Definitely appreciate a measured response to all those cherry picked points.
Yup, the stuff about B12 really is nonsense. I've been vegan for years and when my levels were tested, they actually exceeded the acceptable range slightly.
Also... calcium is close to maximum, no problems with iron or vitamin D and my cholesterol problems just went away.
The backlash against veganism seems suspiciously similar to the backlashes by industry against threats to their cash flow: Big Tobacco recruited doctors; Exxon recruited college professors; Big Pharma recruited scientists; the Auto Industry recruited libertarians. And so, following the playbook, Big Meat / Dairy recruited keto & carnivore promoters.
It's just weird how young people who are smart enough to string words into seemingly logical statements cannot muster the empathy needed to commit to basic decency toward sentient creatures.
Who's to say Mic isn't also a shill for the vegan diet? 😅
'... cannot muster the empathy needed to commit to basic decency toward sentient creatures'.
Good to see I'm not the only one who starts with the moral angle!
If someone says 'It's possible to thrive without harming animals' the morally enabled person will likely respond along the lines of 'Really? I like the idea of that but I'm not certain that's true. Please tell me more', while the morally retarded person will bang square pegs through round holes in order to avoid making an ethical move.
@@Crambull for big tofu🤣🤣🤣
@@Crambull what vegan industry has the money to fund influencers, doctors, scientists to any large degree? Maybe mock meats but Mic hasn't talked fully positively on them and there is no mock meat board or anything, it's just individual companies. The egg, dairy, and meat industries all have massive budgets and have boards and councils set up to speak on behalf of their industries rather than just individual companies and farmers. They are very protective of their profits by any means.
selling pills even in this video, conflict of interest anyone?
QUOTING: a) Recent research finds people eating a vegetarian or vegan diet have (...) an increased risk of a particularly dangerous kind of stroke.
b) A new paper from the German Nutrition Society insists “a vegan diet can't provide everything your body needs,”
The report states “it is difficult or impossible to attain an adequate supply of some nutrients” while following a vegan diet. It specifically cites B12 - found in meat and eggs - as an essential ingredient that plant-based diets can lack, along with omega-3s (found in fatty fish) and a number of other nutrients including “calcium, iron, iodine, zinc and selenium.” The paper warns that children and adolescents and pregnant or breastfeeding women should not not eat vegan, and recommends anyone following a vegan diet seek guidance from a nutritionist."
Can we get these two together for a debate or occasional colab on scientific paper critique. I think these two highlight the confusion in nutrition and waste their time responding to one another when we really need a conversation.
Why do we need a conversation?
@@christopherstein2024 Because it's faster than this back and forth of videos, and more conclusive.
That guy wouldn't get on a debate. He was paid to say those thing doesn't actually know what he's talking about.
@@apricot8301and this guy is pushing his ideological beliefs ignoring everything that proves it partially wrong
@@gattopanino667 "ignoring everything that proves it partially wrong" where?
Honestly I am tired of the battle between vegan and carnivore. Both life styles change lives. If you go vegan or vegetarian you cut out all the junk food. If you go true carnivore. Then you also cut out all the junk food. Both sides need to stop worrying about each other and battle against the highly processed junk food. I was a vegetarian for 3 years and I continued to eat eggs as my main source of protein and thrived. Now I am on a carnivore diet and have similar results. Cut our refined sugars and junk food and no matter what your life will change for the better. Anti junk food is what people should advocate.
This right here.
I know I don't eat healthy enough (in fact I'm actually fighting the urge to eat a sugar cookie right now, and the thing is I'm not even craving it, I just WANT it).
We keep attacking each other with our beliefs, this extends to way more than food, instead of seeing the things that we should be fighting for.
Vegans can eat junk food, what you on about. The issue between carnists and vegans is that carnists derive pleasure from children being raped, vegans don't.
vegan is better than the junk diet almost everyone eats but meat and animal products are filled with important vitamins and minerals
B12 .. that's it! It's worth noting majority of livestock are supplemented with either cobalt (B12 pre curser) or b12 injections themselves.
"Agriculture victoria 6. cobalt/vitamin B12 " [australian livestock exports 12.31 billion$ -the 3rd biggest exporter of meat globally behind Brazil(1) and USA(2) ) ]
"Cobalt deficiency can be prevented by a range of
cobalt supplements-drenches, licks, foliar sprays
and fertiliser top-dressing, as well as pellets and
vitamin B12 injections. Vitamin B12 is only
syrithesised from dietary cobalt in the rumen and is
poorly absorbed. Therefore, animals require regular
and frequent oral dosing with cobalt to satisfy their
(33)vitamin B12 requirements and drenches must be
administered weekly or at most fortnightly to be
completely effective."
We supplement the animals so we don't need to supplement direct. Sounds counterproductive when considering the immense ethical and enrironmental implications.
"Our world data -land by global diets"
"Livestock takes up nearly 80% of global agricultural land, yet produces less than 20% of the world's supply of calories" again, counterproductive!
I am impressed by your ability to misrepresent studies and facts. I saw at least two lies and one misrepresentation in the first two minutes. "He says eating vegetables causes crooked teeth." No, he said that highly processed foods are linked to poor bone development. "He denied the environmental benefits of a plant based diet." No, he didn't. Not a single time. "Generally relying on outdated studies." No, he's really not. He's using evidentiary studies as citations rather than population studies. You know who I've found most likely to lie about their health in order to make others think they're doing better than they are? Vegans. He's not pushing a low carb diet; he's pushing a primitive diet. There's five lies.
"Vegans are at least trending at dying less by about fifteen percent." You think that might be because older folks are far less likely to eat a vegan diet?
As an aside, I am a major supporter of animal protein reduction for both environmental and health reasons. That doesn't mean that its implementation is always done well.
@sethgibson2838 I thank you for reading my comment. Vegetarian is not vegan. Most commonly, vegetarians will occasionally consume animal flesh on social occasions, at least in my experience. And yes, this makes them not 'true' vegetarians, but it also makes them humans who identify as vegetarians while also consuming animal flesh. The 5% allowance is inadequate in this regard.
I watch a lot of these videos - vegan and carnivore - and what's interesting to me are the carnivores are usually the young ones. Take Bruno Panucci of zerocarbfitness&health. He's in his 50's. He's had a heart attack and open heart surgery and he's still a hardcore carnivore. It's quite amazing. Then contrast this with people like t Colin Campbell author of the China study. He eats a plant based diet and is in his 90's. Or how about Caldwell Esselstyn, he preaches a plant based diet and is in his 90's. But his dad died at 42 of a massive heart attack. Even Ancel Keys himself, who is so unfairly demonized in carnivore circles, lived to 100 eating mostly a plant based diet. I think the plant based diet influencers are much more convincing if you really look into it.
Yeah. this guy sucks at his job.
Different people have different bodies. I am a dentist with severe IBS. A vegan diet exacerbated my flatulence to the point of depression and suicidal thoughts, as my job requires me to be near patients for extended periods. Currently, I am on a paleo diet, which has improved my IBS symptoms. Therefore, I feel deeply offended when vegans claim, "We as humans have the choice, and there is no reason for us to eat meat." what a crap... I hope we can live in a world which we respect each other diet and choices.
The amount of humiliation I went through when I was on vegan diet...😢
@@raymondwood5496 Sorry to hear about that experience
There are a million plant-based foods that don't give flatulence. I bet you didn't even try to adjust your diet around them. I hope you at least are very selective about where you get your meat from, and I mean actually selective, not blindly trusting of meaningless "labels" in the supermarket.
Respect and criticism both are different bro..
nlike you, this guy is calm and quotes scientific studies, while you only express your ideological opinions in a very nervous manner.
0:47 Oh, so you *didn't* watch the video, because he says it's processed foods that seem to cause that, not plants. Alright, thank you for making it very clear early on that you're not going to be refuting anything actually said, it saved me from watching 29 minutes of nonsense.
You mentioned Tarahumaras in about the 25:00 mark, which made me awkwardly proud as a Mexican, and I also wanted to add they're fearless runners. They even call themselves rarámuris which means rara=feet, muri=run, they don't even like our "tradition" sports clothing (Nike, Adidas, whatever), some big brands have tried sponsoring them, but they always fail because they run in their own normal clothes, big dresses, traditional sandals, big baggy shirts, etc.
There are quite a few documentaries about them, look them up.
I saw a documentary and it said their diet gives them a life expectancy of about 30?
@@StanDupp6371 that's a tough question to answer.
INEGI (national institute in charge of census) is not that detailed. They do, however, separate indegenous people from the rest, and indegenous life expectancy is close to 65 years, about 7 years less than the national average, this is for a ton of reasons including: limited or non existant access to medical care, education, clean water and even food altogether, let alone a balanced diet (plant-based or not).
Tarahumaras are also specially known for consuming a lot of corn, and I mean A LOT, to the point where they drink tejuino (alcoholic corn-based beverage) from a young age, this doesn't help them as one of their leading causes of death is cirrhosis.
30 sounds like a gross exaggeration, but I can pretty much guarantee it's lower than the national average. Sadly, indigenous communities in Mexico (and frankly, all over the world) tend to be ignored by the government.
@@dariohermosillo Did you see the study at 25:00 mark on Tarahumara it says they consume 18 to 21 grams of fiber per day? That does not sound like they eat a lot of corn or plant foods unless it was mistake in the study? The life expectancy may have been from low levels of B12, Retinol, K2, Heme, DHA and C15:0? Does corn and plant foods have those 6 nutrients?
@@StanDupp6371let me get this straight, in a study that concluded they ate up to 97% of their calories from plants, you concluded they don't by reading the abstract?
you did a terrible job btw, that same abstract literally says they eat up to 80% carbs, which would go in line with corn's nutritional value, low fiber is just what happens with nixtamal process, where they take the corn's outer membrane.
@@dariohermosillo I did not conclude anything I simply reported what it said, sometimes there are mistakes and I did not write the article so how can you say I did a terrible job? It states in the complete document table 19 + or - 3 grams fiber. Also it states bean consumption which does have a lot of fiber but the numbers of the whole report just doesn't add up as there are contradictions
I am 43 and have been a vegetarian for 32 years and I eat a mainly vegan diet since 22 years. Most of the things I eat are organic and I don't drink a lot of alcohol and I don't eat many sugary things. The unhealthy things are the exception. People usually mistake for being 10 years younger than I am. So I doubt I am doing something wrong. All the steak and chicken, burger, coke and other crap eaters who were giving me stupid comments back in school look like they are about to be 50.
I am 34, Omnivore (Mediterranean diet). I had this diet since I was born. Dont live in the US (my country in fact has one of the highest life expectancies in the planet, on top 5. Veganism here is rare). Most of my food is organic, I dont drink or eat sugar either... unhealthy is the exception. People think I am 23. Like literally. So I doubt I do something wrong either. It's not about the meat, its about eating good quality meat, avoiding ultra-processed foods, low sugar and fat, and have large increase in vegetables, nuts, etc (but varied ) compared to your meats. Exercise at least 20 mins a day and avoid alcohol and smoking. If you do that, you will be young regardless of meat intake. I am like you I just eat meat three times a week (mostly chicken or fish, red meat once or twice a month) and I have a completely cleam medical record, perfect blood-analysis and I'm very happy.
*_Although some studies indicate a reduction in mortality associated with vegetarianism and VD, the larger body of evidence indicates that the health benefits associated with vegetarianism may be due to other “lifestyle” factors associated with socioeconomic statuses, such as adequate physical activity, low alcohol, and drug consumption, or avoidance of tobacco products. Recently, Johnston et al. argued that the evidence supporting public health recommendations to reduce or eliminate meat intake was based on questionable studies and "inappropriate analysis" [39]. This argument and the growing body of contrasting and conflicting findings create a conundrum for doctors and policymakers alike._*
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10027313/
This is what I meant.
It’s crazy that your example for a working diet is a politician, but all the regular people getting healthier after getting off the diet isn’t relevant somehow.
That’s because that information doesn’t fit his agenda. Can’t debunk a video unless you cherry pick your data to exclude anything that supports the other side of the argument. Let them live in delusion; I’ll eat steak and continue to thrive.
What's sad is that there are only vegan advocates making debunks of the video when it's just straight up counter-factual and unscientific content that should be discredited for being outright wrong rather than because it's so biased against veganism and eating plants.
LOL, there is so much evidence out there against vegan diets that all the veganistas have time to do is make "debunk" videos! Desperation. 😂😂
You already lost the argument when you can't even debate with out being super negative, almost pejorative, to someone else's point of view. Despite what you claim, he was as neutral as one can be. Listening to you is like listening to a hate filled lecture.
I wholeheartedly agree. This guy almost gave me a headache. He seems very over emotional and irritated, which judging from someone elses comment here somewhere, seems to be nothing unusual.
Don't the majority of vegans revert back to being omnivores?
Did you not watch the video or are you pretending to be dumb
To be more precise, you can ask "Do people trying plant-based diet give it up MORE than other diets?"
@@zewolfstone Exactly.
@@zewolfstone They wouldn't give up if it actually improved your health. But since it objectively makes your health worse, people quit.
Yeah! They do!
This is a huge problem with the RUclips community: people correcting each other looking like fools. What we need are real discussions where the opposing channels sit together and have a meaningful conversation on the subject. At this point I believe no one, I only believe what my body and blood results tell me.
"I only believe what my body and blood results tell me." Good idea. Because one person may do extremely well on a fruits and dairy vegetarian diet and someone else may do horribly on that. If you have good insurance (or are in any other modern country in the world that has universal healthcare/single payer), get your blood work done and try not to adjust too many variables when correcting.
For me, personally, I have to avoid certain foods/vegetables (I believe I've narrowed it down to FODMAPs) or it upsets my guts. I'm being more careful since my LDL is a bit elevated, too. Cardio can't solve everything.
You know all this, my comment is for others. Don't believe what you see in these videos. They should be starting points to do your own research (read studies) and experiment in the kitchen.
Anyway, peace, really liked your conclusory point at the end, there. Good stuff.
Excelent take. This video is only going to reach a small percentage of What I Learned subscribers, and convince even less. It would be far more useful for us viewers and for the the two channels if they had an in-person discussion. Then we can see the actual different points.
(Although to be honest this video looks a lot more convincing, as it gives links to actual resources ect)
It is worst to have discussions, for what? they will only get emotional as every human do in debates.. forgeting the science to focus on who have more hability to articulate well, what we should do is investigate for ourselves if what they claim is truth or not, than you can have more confidence in one or another based on how you evaluate his research.
@@menergy3267 You're right. Thinking about it more, a debate probably wouldn't bring anything truly new or useful to the table.
And yeah, I strongly believe in doing my own research, although I don't do it as much as I should.
Bruh in they didn't need they just want express themselves. This youtuber wo debunking is just response and not an actual information to be consider as he admit that What I've learned that he erasing the significance plant food in human history even not. Mic the Vegan just hate the fact that there is account debunking veganism vision. If you put this two in one place they will just argue but no will listen. You should consider their interest and action before think they valid source to follow. If you believe no one then it's better to get self study and decide what you like.
You're the calmest most sensical vegan I have ever heard speaking. You even admitted that no diet is perfect. Which is a lot better than most vegans that go out publically to speak about it does. Kudos to you for not being a screaming karen and actually made me sit and listen, and think on what you actually had to say.
I don't think I could ever cut out meat entirely, especially chicken, but I do definitely think I could stand to lower it a bit. I mean, I hardly ever eat beef anymore. I think that the effort of maintaining a vegan diet is just not worth it. And besides, a healthy diet takes work, and without that work a vegan diet just falls apart. A meat eating one can get away with not giving a shit about a healthy diet... For a while at least. Until that increased cholesterol punches them right in the chest.
TL;DR: There is so many variables when it comes to diets that it is not black and white on what is right and what is wrong.
P.S: The American food industry is just completely horrible though. The more I hear about that country, the more I feel like it's a dystopia over there.
This clown has "debunked" every diet in the world EXCEPT vegan!🤣🤣🤣
Why do the attackers care what vegans eat? Why can't they just eat their diet and leave others alone?
Societies grew specifically because they were able to cultivate large crops of starchy vegetables, grains in particular. The bulk of the ancient diet was plant based, and while meat was regularly consumed, it could never be consumed anywhere near the levels of today due to industrial animal agriculture practices not existing. The reason holidays always feature a large meat item is because most of the year you were sucking down oats, potatoes, beans, and corn or something. So having a big bird or a brisket or a big ham were a big deal because it was rare. Today we can have a holiday feast every single day if we wish. Even a casual glance at history shows all of this. I personally think "What I've Learned" channel is secretly sponsored by some keto company or something.
it's sponsored by animal ag
Maybe? I know Kurzgesagt (in a nutshell) was exposed as taking money from the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. I don't see how one guy living in Japan takes "Big Meat" money or what have you. WIL just does self improvement entertainment content. Not like he claims to be a scientist/nutritionist, so of course his stuff isn't gonna be highly researched. Everyone can make their own well informed decisions and not just have one RUclipsr's opinions taken as absolute fact.
@@Crambull I think spreading misinformation (disinformation?) and then saying “do your own research tho” is very irresponsible and hard to believe to be done without malicious intent. It’s a poor excuse because he knows his audience won’t look up his sources; that’s why he confidently misrepresent the research and then links it. Actually reading it would refute most of his claims.
So how can you see it as just some guy living in Japan (why does he live there..) into self improvement? How is lying improving yourself?
This is pointless argument. vegan diet is not for everyone as is a carnivore diet probably not for everyone. Just figure out what works for you.
I was vegan for 2 years and switched to vegetarian for 5 more years so in total 7 years without eating meat. I can attest it was the worst health point in my life. My blood work was out of whack, I was constantly getting sick all seasons of the year and started developing allergies. You can "debunk" what you want but I am living proof that vegan diet was the worst choice of my life for my health. I have since gone to back to eating plenty of fish, red meat, and poultry, dairy with plenty of salads and my health improved dramatically. Yes, DRAMATICALLY by incorporating animal based products back into my diet.
Well, I've been a vegan for a bunch of years and my blood work is always fine. In fact, better than before. (I used to suffer from cholesterol problems.)
Anecdotal evidence doesn't matter. It's possible that you didn't plan your diet well or even that you hated that lifestyle so much that the stress caused by it caused the problems. The power of the mind can be amazing.
@@notthere83 It's also possible that everyone is different, and a vegan diet for an omnivore won't work.
oh damn anecdotal claims, best proof on the internet, I was once on a carnivore diet then my penis just fell off, trust me bro, plus saying a vegan diet won't work for an omnivore, I don't think u people understand what omnivore means, is not you need both meat and veggies in your diet, is that you can eat both meat and veggies, is completely different
@@justalex7825 I think different diets affect people differently.
Not that drastically. Humans are humans - we all require the same nutrients. Some of us may not be able to process some nutrients or foods as well as others but that doesn't magically make us carnivores. You can get all of the nutrients you need on a vegan or omnivorous diet, but a vegan diet is obviously healthier (due to lack of cholesterol and saturated fat) and it's also more ethical and environmentally sustainable. If you don't want to be vegan, don't. But stop pushing the debunked narrative that a diet with meat and animal products is healthier.
you just killed your credibility to most people by saying "Pro meat". if your augment starts by painting some one as the bad guy or the enemy, intentional or not, the rest of your augments will fall flat for people who see that. which you are painting him as the big bad on purpose, you are trying to push an nutritive rather than making a rebuttable.
for the love of god stop attacking his character and ya know actually come up with an argument against his points
if i had a bottle of rum and a shot glass i would down the hole thing with the number of times you say fear mongering
2:11 Prospective studies, aka short term
3:00 was it the diet or was it him paying more attention to what he was eating and medical care?
3:20 straw man argument
4:00 key words here "adequately planed" that matters alot, you don't do the extra work then it dosent work. you cant just buy just plants be fine
4:40 attacking the crediblity of a studie do to the time it was done because the man who did it didn't have the same level of information we do now.
the observation is still valid, it's part of the scientific processes
5:00 most vegan substitutes are highly pressed so it does equate to the early observations
6:00 um plan bassed diets are inharetly made of softer foods. so even if it's not the nutrition its self the switch to softer foods is still a cause of the problem
9:50 cow secretion, that not the right word here. anyways the latoce intalerent populations being shorter to those who regulatory consume milk is not something to be thrown under the bus as bad. their is a correlation, which should be looked into not dismissed.
10:00 just checked the WHO and they said that in animal testing that there was a potental corliation between the tow BUT the test was to small and inconcistent to make a strong conclustion. thus this point is mute
10:25 more cells means more chances for cancer who would have thought?
i would continue but i cant find the energy, to slog through this. plus when you try to prove your point its just a head line with no context for the number you pull>
this is not a debunking it's propaganda
I don't think people, especially seniors, can ingest enough protein on a vegan diet. This alone is a good reason to avoid veganism apart from other nutrients not available from plants. That said, people should be able to eat what they like without being coerced into a restricted eating regime like veganism.
16:11 The video topic at that time was fermented dish Nato and sauerkraut having Vitamin K2; the video at 16:20 switched to Vitamin K1. Vitamin K2 is more bioavaialble in meat.
18:50 hsCRp 72% lower for Vegans, P < 0.01; Vegetarians P < 0.02; no group - including Omnivores - were above threshold for hsCRP
It is true that in Table 3, “Crude and adjusted mean differences of vegetarian and vegan children relative to omnivore children in bone, cardiovascular, and body iron status outcomes”, Vegans had significantly lower C-reactive protein (CRP) levels than omnivores (P < 0.001) under Model 3, which adjusted for age, sex, height z-score, and physical activity. The mean CRP level for Vegans were 0.2 mg/L, which was 72% lower than the mean level for omnivores (0.9 mg/L). Vegetarians also had lower CRP levels than omnivores (P = 0.02), with a mean of 0.6 mg/L, which was 33% lower than the omnivore mean ... but ... none of the groups had CRP levels above the threshold of 2 or 3 mg/L that indicates increased cardiovascular risk.
19:28 Dr. Belardo promotes supplementation with Vitamin B12 when being Vegan as "Animal foods are the only reliable dietary sources without fortification". The studies cited emphasize that B12 supplementation is important because without it the individual will be B12 deficient.
First study "Adequate vitamin B12 and folate status of Norwegian vegans and vegetarians"
- The study reports that plant-based diets may increase the risk of vitamin B12 deficiency due to limited intake of animal-source foods, while dietary folate may increase when adhering to plant-based diets.
- It also states that cB12 is more accurate than serum B12 alone to assess vitamin B12 status
- Average daily supplement use and older age are predictors of higher serum B12 concentrations - because probably older people are wiser :)
- It concludes that Norwegian vegans and vegetarians have adequate vitamin B12 and folate status due to supplementation and that the cB12 indicator is useful to detect mild deficiency.
NOTE The study does not state that vegans are not at risk of deficiency of vitamin B12, but rather that they can prevent it by taking supplements.
Second study "Methylmalonic Acid Levels and their Relation with Cobalamin Supplementation in Spanish Vegetarians"
- Says cobalamin deficiency is a health issue for vegetarians, especially vegans, if they do not consume supplements, as vitamin B12 is mainly found in animal products.
- Spanish vegetarians have low risk of vitamin B12 deficiency due to supplementation
NOTE See note on first study
Third study "Micronutrient Status of Recreational Runners with Vegetarian or Non-Vegetarian Dietary Patterns"
- Emphasizes a well-planned, health-conscious lacto-ovo-vegetarian and vegan diet, including supplements, to meet an athlete’s requirements of vitamin B12, vitamin D and iron
- Serum B12 levels do not differ between omnivorous, lacto-ovo-vegetarian, and vegan runners, but 14% have low serum B12 concentration
- Serum-folate is higher in vegans than in vegetarians
NOTE See note on first study
Fourth study "Micronutrient status and intake in omnivores, vegetarians and vegans in Switzerland"
- States Swiss omnivores have the least amount of some vitamins and minerals in their food - magnesium, vitamin C, vitamin E, niacin and folic acid
- Vegans have little calcium and not enough of D and B12 vitamins in their food. - It also finds that each group has different problems with vitamins and minerals in their body, but Vegans are supplementing not making them B12 deficient.
- Urinary iodine concentration is good for all groups except for vegans who did not use iodized salt.
- Zinc deficiency is highest in vegans
NOTE See note on first study
Just avoiding red meat does not make any diet sufficient in Vitamin B12. If the individual is not aware that their diets are deficient in B12, they might skip to supplement.
The messaging perhaps should be that Vegans and Vegetarians understand more today the importance of B12 supplementation.
I just watched the What I've Learned video and your video popped up in my feed. I was curious to see an opposing view because I like to know both sides of a controversial topic. However by only 3 minutes into your video you strung together so many insults and snide comments (ad hominem attacks) directed at the person doing the What I've Learned video that I realized this was not the fact-based opposition video I was hoping for.
#firstworldproblems. All I know that in my country people went blind when meat and other animal products became extremely hard to come by. That alone makes me believe a vegan is not a choice unless you have a lot of money to spend on supplements. It's not natural nor it is easy to follow in a country where food is already expensive or hard to find.
It's cheaper, lol
So, The China Study got it backwards?
I have no idea what weird country you live in where meat is less expensive than a _variety_ of plant foods. I've gotta assume your traditional diet is so incredibly restrictive that when you take meat out of the equation people have huge deficits. Maybe don't eat your traditional diet then? It's certainly not important enough to justify animal suffering.
@spiritnone2818 Verrry well-said.. -Both by you, @spiritnone, (and) @jamesmcbeth, above. I similarly smelled a "large rat" when reading that post.. (My apologies to nice, non-smelly rats everywhere, for using that old expression!)
They always complain about how bad vegan diet is, but never address the problems that come with eating meat and animal products
Not really efficient debunking. As fear mongering.. the same or worse than the other. His studies not more convincing, lots of fruit salad displayed. Not very convincing. That rich kid is just lucky having found a nich to sell his supplements sponsor.
I think both your, and his video have merits. There is plenty of cherry picked data on your and his sides. End of the day a balanced omnivore diet the subject can adhere to is objectively the best on every axis of measurement. Being a zealot for or against anything is usually a sure sign of bias. Hopefully science figures out a way to create a middle ground, or to create food in a lab that has little harm to the environment, little harm to animals, and all the benefits of an omnivore diet.
Vegan is the healthier diet because it's doesn't have cholesterol and saturated fat
I am a short vegan, who was a late bloomer..............but I was raised on meat and dairy while growing up, lmao!!!!!! AND now a healthy Vegan of over 17 years after being vegetarian for 6-7 years before that ;)
I have what i lived through and 10 years i went full vegan. In those days vegan was not really being promoted as a healthy diet. All they were saying was going vegan will save money. That's it and in those days it was true. But where did that get me? It got me to the hospital! I had a intestine infection, had to get a surgery to save my life and the doctor said the cause was MALNUTRITION! The vegan diet did this to me. They started feeding me sea food like squid and fish but also beef and chicken and my blood and urine quickly lost the signs of malnutrition i had. Since then a minimum of 50% of everything i eat is meat. You vegans are just a bunch of liars hired by the grain industry to promote their crap!
Whats your point? Eating a meat based diet isn't going to change your genetics just like that. You just would have been even more of a midget if you were vegan growing up.
Really? I've never been paid by anyone and never had any of your experiences. I'm healthier now than when I ate animals.
@@EngineersQuest Are you sure about that? Because i i made a comparison, a bunch of people who only ate bread and water vs a group who only ate meat and water and the result after a month was all the bread eaters had diarrhea and were suferring from malnutrition while the meat eaters were totally fine.
This is why i am calling you a liar.
@@tusk3260 Well then I'm sure glad that I don't eat just bread and water. I'm also quite sure that I know my own body, lol. Yes. I'm telling the truth no matter what you want to believe.
And the thing is that most (if not all) ex vegans he mentioned had gut issues way before veganism, hence, why they decided to try veganism
Eat keto + fast = die faster and lose energy
Eat bugs + vegan = live longer and gain energy.
Humans can happily and healthily live on a whole food plant diet that's true. I have proved that to myself going 100% plant based and vegan seven years ago at the age of 50. Veganism is a lifestyle not a diet.
What I've learned is that VEGAN is a very inconvenient word for most of the humans as the carnist paradigm has a very strong hold over the population. Most people would rather remain ignorant than attempt to own the cruelty that their daily actions produce in the industries that feed and clothe and entertain the masses. So meat eaters love to here anything that affirms the dominant lifestyle paradigm and lets them be distracted from what's actually happening in our world.
What I'm trying to say is that it's so hard to gain any ground in this argument but Mic the vegan keeps stepping up.
Thanks Mic for your tireless work and promotion of science and logic, love this channel!
I came across the video you responded to and saw this as a recommended, so I watched both. I am quite undecided about the health benefits or problems here, neither video has really convinced me. An Issue I have with this video it's that it starts out with what I would consider a poisoning of the well, and throughout generally a very condescending attitude. Not a good way to convert people.
Personally I eat meat simply because it's delicious.
From the very start of the video it was hard listening to him. Hesounds a whole lot like what I call a "salad nazi".
The issue I have with this video is that it covered a lot of quotes and not as much data.
Is there a Vegan diet that doesn't require a large amount of supplementation or heavily processed foods without having to eat high calories?
Edit: having watched both videos all the way through, it still looks like omnivorous diets are closest to natural and that going herbivore or carnivore will lead you to be missing something important.
Dont fall for this radical religion calling veganism, i have seen with my own eyes what this disgusting vegan diet does to people in the long term. My sister and her ex boyfriend mental health dropped considerably, went from average body weight to over 100KG!!! And no supplement in the world is saving their mental health from their really flawed logics and unbalanced behavior.
i am vegan, and i have never thought about my diet in my life, except for the ethical considirations ofc, and i feel verry healthy, so i am surprised you would ask if there is any vegan diet that needs large amounds of supplementation or processed foods or high callories. you can just eat some chickpeas, lentils and nuts and you are good in my experiance.
I take no suppliments and dont really eat a lot of proccesed food, when i do it is definately not nutritious.
so my diet would fall under high callories i geuss according to you? i dont really know if that is true or a problem, i am, as relatively a lot of people on a plant based diet are, on the slim side. So i dont really know what the issue with high callorie consumption is, could you explain, i am genuinely curious what you mean.
I would agree that omnivore is closest to natural, but I'd add two points: 1. That doesn't mean that the modern western levels of meat consumption are ideal; they seem to be tooo much nutritionally. 2. Most vegans are not doing it solely for nutritional reasons, they believe in the ethics of veganism. In that case, most are fine with taking a few supplements to fill some gaps (a simple multivitamin would cover it in most cases, maybe an extra omega-3 supplement if you want to optimize things, not a "large amount" of supplementation).
The only supplementation you actually need is b12. I have no idea why you think you'd have to eat heavily processed foods. Just eat a variety of greens, fruits, starches.
About the dental, gut and mental problems you say are not part of a vegan lifestyle, sorry you're wrong, i've seen it happening with my own eyes over 8 years and counting
Anecdotes are fun aren't they ?! But, they don't cut the mustard in the world of science.
@@morejoy5188 Of course they do not, that's why i believe real life factual events that i have seen with my own eyes over some random video anectodal evidence.
Science is corrected by real life facts, not the other way around.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
I understand the need for vegan diets to preserve the planet, but every vegan I know (I have known 14 for the record) has had a washed out/yellow palor to their skin. And because their food is processed and loaded with carbs, most were severely overweight.
I’m also a diabetic (Type 1 - the kind you can’t reverse, as opposed to Type 2 which is caused by age or lifestyle and is reversible). Type 2 diabetes recedes with weight loss - you could just as easily reverse it with an omnivorous diet.
I am a conflicted omnivore (animal cruelty and environment factors), but human beings are fundamentally omnivorous creatures. We have the large guts of herbivores, but the incisor and canine teeth of carnivores.
Funny the trope is that vegans are malnurished, anemic and underweight.
Saying your on a "vegan diet" is extremely vague because you could eat the equivilent of the "SAD" (standard american diet) and overeat refined carbs/sugars and fats, or you could be "whole food/plant based" which means very little refined/processed foods, so lots of grains, beans/legums, lentils and ofc fruit&veggies.
So "vegan diet" can mean anything inbetween.
Also our incisors/canines are extremely small, smaller than other fruit eating monkeys, smaller than some herbivors like some specied of deer or pigs, theres also muscles in our mouths that are not present in carnivors - but a simple test is to try eating meat raw like carnivors do and you'll find out real fast that you werent supposed to eat it. We only started eating meat when we found when we cooked it that we could eat it safely.
I dont have diabetes but i have heard that fiberous carbs take longer to digest and slowely release their engergy so you dont get a huge sugar rush all at once.
Why are you insulting him? Both of yall fail to address the pros of the opposing diet be he isn't insulting vegans while you are insulting him. You aren't going to convince anyone with your argument.
I'm convinced.
Yeah, I don't get why he did that. I was never gonna do a vegan diet because I like meat but I like hearing about plants
Lack of b12 maybe?
@@rogersepedaYou can get B12 from plants or source it as a supplement from plants. Beats taking high blood pressure medicine.
"Oh no he's being mean". You don't seem to understand that while it's merely a diet issue for you, it's an ethical one for vegans. They're not being "hysterical", "emotional" or "mean", they argue the way people do around _serious moral matters._
As a white meat enjoyer and a carcinogen hater I approve of this video. I don't care much about food health but What I've Learned's video is blatant slander and more people should see this video response.
No, more people should leran to look up stuff themselves, instead of learning just from youtube videos.
I think a lot of People quit a Vegan/Vegetarian Diet because of Social Pressures, when everyone around you is always cooking and consuming Meat, you feel like you stand out, you are being judged and that you don't belong in this Social Group or something.
At the end of the day, if you are true to your Values and Principles, you should have no issue sticking to whatever you put your Mind to.
Maybe you are right.
Maybe he is right.
What I know is that I work with hundrends of clients, and the vegan are ALWAYS the most problematic.
Not saying it IS problematic, but for experience I can say that is statistically easier to face difficulties and overall poor health and energy.
In many years I can recall only 2 clients who lived an healthy life as vegan.
So, if you are vegan and healthy, great, if you are not, you have choices.
If you are omnivore and healthy, great, if you are not, you have choices.
We don't need either propaganda..
We can always try.. just don't be too fixated, that's not helpful in either direction.
For sure we can always find at least one study that says the opposite of what our "counterpart" says.. And I believe neither this is useful for anyone.
Yeah, i belive if the people just tried things and did not obly hypotetically spoke about them it would be much better!
Mic, you really do not look healthy. Maybe you're wrong.
Stop it, who cares what non vegans think … stop giving them airtime ..
Weston Price was not a crappy dentist. You should read his book before making wild assertions. Teeth are the window to the body. Price was a scientist not just a dentist. He found evidence that the tooth decay of native peoples caused by consuming western food could be arrested by returning to their native non vegetarian diets. He described it as "glassified".
Said natives had switched to a non-vegetarian western diet. Many of them had traditional diets that were mostly plant-based foods. Have _you_ read the book? It doesn't make a good case for being omnivore or carnivore as opposed to plant-based. Ultimately it makes a case against sugar and processed, industrial food. In case you don't know, the Weston A. Price Foundation which is peddling high-fat animal-centric diets today was founded in 1999 and has little to no legitimacy in claiming to be the continuity of Weston Price's ideas.
@@spiritnone2818 Yes. The health devastation was caused by Western foods. But none of these ppl were vegan. Price thought he might find a non animal food tribe in the centre of a large Pacific island but found the inland tribes traded with the coastal tribes for seafood, even during hostilities.
Also recall the ppl in the high Andes who had fish eggs from the coast for their pregnant women.
another anecdote, I can predict people being vegan w/o knowing them because they look like you
He is sickly looking. I'm not sure if that is his diet or what. I noticed it too.
If you see a pale, anemic guy, agitated, skin and bones (not counting those who take creatine, steroids etc), you can safely assume he's a vegan. Yelling at you how healthy he is while not being able to survive without popping B12 pills.
I unsubscribed from What's I've Learned a while ago due to all the animal food videos. Great to see Mic correct him on everything. Now I can just send this to friends who say otherwise
His channel is called “What I’ve Learned” yet he’s just now relying on his own personal biases. The thing is, back when I was researching diets and all, I came to the same conclusion as him and thought that animal products and fats were good. However, the more I researched, the more I found the opposite was true. The science is multilayered and can be quite complex. However, I still took the time to learn it. He on the other hand has stuck with his lies and simple world view. I wish youtube would change his username because it’s so inaccurate. His channel should be “What I’m lying about today”
I’d be careful about trapping yourself in an eco chamber. You should at least listen to the other sides arguments.
@@JoeARedHawk275 Totally true! It's sad that people get their information from someone like him.
@@beauxdejour808 You say that to people you disagree with.
@@じゃみっと Yes, I say that because I’ve tried plant based & had to quit. Even though I didn’t want to, my body told me I had to & I immediately felt better including animal based foods back into my diet.
"what i've learned" presents lies with a little truth mixed in. I always felt something off about his videos. He is either suffering from cognitive dissonance or he's got other people in his pockets.
It's DEFINITELY the pockets. He's on board with every that makes a lot of chin chin 💸 for big industries, not just meat
Ah people like you are silly. Most people are this way really. No time to do the work yourself, just gonna go to a youtube echo chamber where you can dismiss what the other guy said while you feel comforted by hearing what you want to hear from this guy. It's universally stupid. There is not critical thinking anymore. And people are just full of confirmation bias. Riddled with it, like cancer. Sad
your existence is silly. meditate on that.@@choosetolivefree
Not looking good mic, every video looks one step closer to the end
That's true for everybody no?
interesting how people who cry fallacy use them even more
You perfectly demonstrated hasty genralization fallacy.
The majority of people in the comment section are biases of veganism. So let this message of mine take the defensive side of meats as part of our main and balanced diet. They fail to realise that omnivores are far superior to carnivores and herbivores, and we adapt to eat both so we can gain nutrients from meats and vegetables.
Yes, vegetables are healthy. But let us talk about our other bodily needs, something that we also need since our daily activities need it too. Where do muscles are built? From meat. Stabilize our mood and brain function? From meat. What is the main component of making blood? Iron from meat. Cell groth, bone fortification, and immune system sharpening? All came from the meat we eat.
If we take those away for the sake of keeping animals safe and for the environment. It will be a mess for both sides. Animal population will grow and exceed beyond their usual size, the environment will run out of area and supplies for the animals, and then us here, slowly dying from diseases like anemia, weak muscles, brittile hair/nails, neural incompatibility, et al.
Now, let's talk about things vegans eat. Mayonnaise is partially made of eggs, which came from chickens. Milk, white liquid of chalk and fat came from cows, don't lie, you drink it. Cheese, it's tasty. You haven't made one year without eating a single slice hidden in your bread.
It's the circle of life, the loop mother nature made. If a lion gets to kill you first, then the lion gets to eat. If you haven't eaten, full of determination, of course, you would kill the lion first. We humans are not used to eating grasses or leaves that grow from the ground, so take that vegans. Also, "vegan" products are much like the oncoming waves of minimalist aesthetic and other trends. They are not body friendly as those foods are heavily processed and full of chemicals.
And that's my ladies and gentlemen, is my defense of meat. Balance diet is far superior to those in meat or vegan diet sides.
I'm an omnivore but after watching that vid I immediately went to look for debunk bc he's very strongly and obviously biased. My biggest wtf point was when he said reducing fiber to zero completely solves constipation. And praising all meat diets (bc those have such a great records and have no quitters, right?)
Who’s being biased? Mic or What I’ve learned?
It's actually true. Eating Fiber to prevent constipation is a myth that was propagated in the 80s and has still yet to be proven scientifically.
Notice Mic doesn't mention the low mortality of pescatarian diets that were shown in the very studies he put up in this video.
This is a response video. He's pointing out the other guys mistakes and defending a vegan diet, yes he didn't mention that but he also this mention the pescatarian diet at all lol.
But honestly from the recent levels of micro plastics found in fish, I would eat it :/
@@Leandro_SWR Most salmon and sardines have very little or no micro plastics.
Why should he?
The purpose is to combat animal agriculture. sponsored propaganda against Veganism.
@@Leandro_SWR 💯 - also, - if I sponsored & promoted a diet that fundamentally abused other species incl. 🐟 I would definitely be concerned about the micro plastics found in fish. Put simply, FISH ARE NO LONGER HEALTHY. THEY CAUSE CANCER & AT THE VERY LEAST PLAY HAVOC WITH YOUR HORMONE LEVELS - because of the micro plastics!
How many times we gotta teach you this lesson, old man?
My only concern with the vegan diet is when people claim that it is a natural "human" diet. If it was a natural diet, why is it that vegans have to take supplements to keep on their diet? Why is it that pure vegan woman eventually have health complications that are severe, such as loosing their periods? if you want to do a vegan diet for moral reasons, just say it. However, do not claim that it is natural for humans, as the cornerstone of human evolution (invention of tools) was ignited by the ability to hunt for meat.
@@focusedstudying8993A funny thing is that researchers have found, humans were most likely vegans for the most part of our history. So not only we were able to be vegan as you mentioned, but we were naturally vegan.
I got fat eating vegan, I will never eat another vegetable again. Bad skin, bad nail, bad hair, bad intestine health, they almost destroyed my intestines, as long as I don't have to kill the cow I'll eat it. So as long as I can buy steaks or hamburger I'm a carnivore and I really liking it so far this is my first day on full carnivore, today I ate 3 slightly larger patties than 1/4lb each, and I just got finished eating a 1/2 a ribeye cooked in butter in the skillet with nothing more than a little salt when it was on my plate.
Dude, put some pepper on that steak. It's not a vegetable, but a herb.
And herbs ARE in fact good for your health.
How insanely genetically subpar do you have to be to need to eat a diet none of your ancestors could've had access to? We've been agriculturalists for thousands of years now. Dysgenic freak lmao
I'll have my steak medium rare
Can any one explain to me the following
I was 25 kg 55 lbs over weight. Had blood pressure around 85 140. On reflux meds. Had arthritis needing strong pain meds. Told by an endocrinologist I would be diabetes real soon. Sugar was around 11. Suffered severe constipation, going as long as a week plus between movements.
I changed to Whole Food Plant Bassd diet.
In 5 months I dropped 20 kg 44lbs. Went off BP meds and was around 125 70. No longer needed reflux meds, I had taken for 20 years. No longer needed pain meds for arthritis. My last sugar reading was around 5. I have 2 to 3 bowel movements a day, and the paper work is the longest part of it.
Well I can tell you why. I was meant to eat plants. As a boy I liked my veggies. In particular mashed potatoe. I never did like taking an hour to chew an old piece of boot leather some call steak. As for liver, the only good thing was the washing up.
You switched to a diet that caused you to lose weight.
Resolving both your blood sugar & cardiovascular stressors.
Both of which are heavily impacted by being overweight.
You reflux resolution is probably a result of your entire upheaval of your diet.
When you change to vegan - you usually don't just change to eating anything that isn't meat. You typically also stop eating things associated with meat (high fat sauces etc..)
You weren't meant to be a plant eater - no vegan in their right mind actually thinks that.
If you wanted to actually scientifically challenge your beliefs - you could start introducing meat products into your diet - and you'll very likely find that it wasn't meat that was the cause of your problems.
@@Wataheadable Why would he though? If he is feeling healthy on a plant based diet and swears by it, it's objectively better for everyone. Smaller environmental impact, less stress on the medical system, less risk of some of the illnesses mentioned in this video
AND less animal suffering!
Excellent choice .
Of course , ALL meat-eating apologists never talk about human evolution and how , over hundreds of thousands of years , our teeth and our digestive systems resemble herbivores than it ever will real actual carnivores like lions or even genuine omnivores like bears .
They never ever ever do that .
Why? Because they fail to address how difficult , more labor-intensive and expensive meat has always been to obtain than plants for humans .
What we had more available to us as food shaped our bodies .
Netflix had a documentary about chimps , our closest relatives in the animal world, in the wild a few months ago . Two rival chimp clans were constantly fighting each other and on the way home from a fight one of the clans saw some small howler-type monkeys in the trees and successfully hunted them down, killed them and ate them raw on the spot . The next day it showed this same clan eating fruit from a tree and the documentary noted that fruits and plants made up 95-98% of their diets .
Iow the little monkeys were just the occasional opportunity to “ have a little something different .” They were nowhere near what the chimps or their ancestors survived on . Catching those monkeys was much more labor-intensive than climbing fruit trees . Their was a s-load more vegan food available to them than there were little monkeys .
That was a great little microcosm of the evolution of human beings and what made us have the bodies we have today .
As a pastor , years ago I did research on Luke 15, the Parable of the Prodigal Son. One commentator made the point that he had calculated that a “ fatted calf” , which his dad was going to kill for the prodigal son to celebrate his birthday , in Jesus’ primitive culture of first century AD Palestine was equivalent to a brand new Mercedes-Benz in America today .
Cows were expensive af back then ! That’s why only the rich and powerful ever ate them. And the best the average Palestinian peasant was almost vegetarian by default because ALL meat tended to be expensive and/ or labor-intensive . Usually the best they could do was the occasional fish from the Sea of Galilee.
That chimp anecdote and the sermon preparation anecdote both speak the truth of how plant-eating has shaped human form and health from the very beginning til now . That’s why lions don’t die from heart attacks by eating raw meat but we do , either from parasites in the meat or from the fat in the meat . It’s why lions have a short digestive system and ours is yards and yards long like herbivores .
You simply cannot justify the glorification of meat-eating from a human evolution standpoint .
It's because plants are low in cal (that's how you lost weight), low in saturated fat, and contain a high amount of fibre (that's why you have bowel movements more frequently).
You're definitely deficient in vitamin B12, creatine, protein, calcium, iron, vitamin D, zinc, omega 3. (All of these may make your brain functions and muscle strength weaker)
And you're also missing on delicious foods
@@alexandra_avr5055 and you can get those from plants and supplements
I was indoctrinated to try to get myself to blink my eyes 1 time per minute so I could get my eyelids to last much longer, but I went back to my intuition of about 15 times per minute without thinking about it. The 8.7 million species of animals have a 100% success rate with their species diet as long as they had access to the food and no accidents happened. If a vegan diet does not have 100% success rate with simple intuition and instinct based on exact evolution, then someone is trying to outsmart nature and the ecosystem which will have a 100% failure rate until proven otherwise.
for real
DAS RITE!
@@NemesisEP1 The simple ideas and concepts are always good.
No. You are trying to outsmart nature by eating animals that have only existed for thousands but no even 10s if thousands of years. So, your argument of :" We've been eating animals for millions of years doesn't apply to the animals'we' as homosapiens eat right now. The animals our species eat right now have been bred into existence as farm animals.
Humans are a self-domesticated species. We can't be compared to others, we have adapted to a variety of artificial environment over thousands of years. There is no clear "default natural diet" to reproduce artificially. And you can't trust your instinct to reproduce it, because we're like most animals who, given unlimited access to food, do eat too much, too caloric-dense, and become unhealthy.
I just watched 5 minutes of your video until you mentioned other ex-vegans who you responded to in other videos.
If I want to be honest with you, I didn't like your tone mentioning other people including the "what I've learned" channel presenter, and on the other hand, if veganism (or vegetarianism) is logical and scientific this video shouldn't exist. I have already should found out the benefits of veganism (both in my body and environment) and switched to it but I don't because it is not. I don't want to mention false or even misleading info in some other videos, sites, or papers.
I think this kind of video has more negative effects than positive. Good luck with your job but only time can reveal the truth. I wish you the best.
Genuinely curious, you do know for 99% of human evolution and history we did not have a vegan diet, we specifically evolved as omnivores, and there are many many many mammals who are omnivores or meat only(yes there is also mammals that are plant only but humans are not one of them). What is your genuine argument against this? That your modern "im better than you" diet that is basically impossible to live on when below the poverty line is.. better than what nature and evolution itself gave us? How? It is genuinely flabberghasting.
Our closest evolutionary relatives (primates) eat mostly plant-based, they just eat a littttle bit of meat. If you want to be 100% vegan for ethical reasons, it can be very healthy, you just need to be careful about a few nutrients, it doesn't need to be super expensive.
I love how you commented that our modern shoes collapse our arches, i started sleeping on the floor and got myself a few pairs of barefoot shoes.
I wish people knew all the products were sold or told are "premium comfort" and stuff like that is literally encouraging us to waste away faster
bro you're a caveman, what on earth will better feet arches do for you? Its not premium comfort, its normal and makes your life better.
Mic. You are one of the greats! You give me hope when you clap back at this anti-vegan propaganda. I've been vegan nearly 10 years and I get so exhausted trying to defend the lifestyle. But I get renewed energy when I see you so eloquently respond to even 40 minute videos. May you never become tired of the work you do. Much love
yes you're exhausted because you eat like a bunny I would be exhausted too. I love how you guys don't understand you're in the by far minority and are the crazy ones. It's really like a cult, a small minority that believes in absolutely insane ideas is somehow convinced that everyone else is wrong and all of human history ate wrong. I hope you get help I'm sorry you're suffering from this mental illness
Maybe you’re getting exhausted because your diet has left you malnourished.
Hi, I hear you. I read an interesting article where someone (not vegan) stated
they do not justify who they are or respond to criticism. I tell humans to watch "earthlings" and tell me how much they enjoy it. Sadly, the omnivore world often leads vegans to defending our choices and debunking lies and assumptions. I also believe the animal ag industry hires thousands of trolls who follow blogs and video's, placing doubt and stupid anti-vegan comments all over. cheers.
@@rachelgoodkind6545, You sound delusional.
What do you defend, nobody cares if you are vegan, but if you want to try to convert others then yes, expect pushback.
My bias:
I tend to be ketovore/carnivore.
My comment:
You share observational studies that only show a possible association or correlation yet there are many low carb verses low fat studies which show causation which show that the low carb approach is safe. Why rely on observational studies if the RCTs have already been done.
Your followers should know that 80% of observational (hypothesis generating) studies are proven wrong when the RCTs are done.
Anyone of your followers can simply search, Healthline, 23 studies on low carb and low fat: time to end the fad or low carb verses low fat studies by the Public Health Collaborative which shares the RCTs. It's not honest to suggest that plant based diets are the best way to achieve longevity when in Hong Kong, they eat on average two steaks per person per day and regularly achieve longest lifespans. I ask my patients to eat real food, avoid processed food, sugar, refined grains, and choose the dietary pattern that works for them.
Lets focus on where we have common ground
Healthline isn't a good source of information
@@aguy481 Even if they are not, the studies are what matters. I recommend taking a honest look at the RCTs.
Interesting post. What is RCTs?
@@letransformateur6477 Thanks for asking. RCT=Randomized Controlled Trail. As opposed to observational research where we use surveys or computer data, RCTs are real research. Randomized controlled trials (RCTs) are considered the gold standard for clinical research, thus having a high impact on clinical guidelines and our daily patients’ care. However, various treatment strategies which we consider “evidence based” have never been subject to a prospective RCT like those observational studies. It's okay to use observational studies when it's considered unethical to withheld an established treatment to individuals in an placebo controlled trial but thankfully we do have RCTs as previously shared. So relying on observational studies when we have RCTs is not logical
disclaimer: i'm not vegan. i genuinely think the main issue with vegan diets is that most people people are genuinely very bad at making them balanced. talking mostly about americans/canadians/australians/some western europeans here. most of these people are SO used to heavily meat-based diets that they don't understand what a balanced diet without meat and animal products looks like (to be fair, i don't really either - i could eat healthy vegetarian but i've never cut out dairy before and don't know how to do so). most of the people i've seen try a vegan diet will cut out all the foods they need to cut out but not add in stuff like nuts and seeds or enough vegetables or fruits etc. it will basically be exactly the same diet they were eating before except this time instead of chicken it's tofu or chickpeas or something. which doesn't 100% substitute for all the nutrients you get from that meat. people who used to have a lot of yogurt will stop but they won't start eating other non dairy foods that provide those same nutrients.
i do think there are individuals for whom vegan diets won't work. not because it's unhealthy (because it's not) but because they straight up just won't get all the necessary nutrients because of the way they eat. personally i know i won't because i'm already usually on the edge of being protein deficient and i do not like vegan high in protein foods enough to eat a sufficient amount of them to be healthy. but that's very different to what this guy is saying. he should honestly just admit that he doesn't want to go vegan and leave it at that.
"What I've learned"
Dear god that's the most hysterically dishonest, self-unconscious name for a disinformation channel
Am i the only one who feels that vegans are way more biased than omni or carnivores...?
Depends on what circle of people you talk to. There's for sure a lot of BS and a lot of bias on both sides of the spectrum, but the fact is that at least a diet with predominantly whole food plants is what's recommended by every major health institute and governmental health organisations, and I'd say most vegans are at least more aware of that and nutrition in general than most omnivores or carnivores just out of necessity. It's kind of necessary if you'd like to survive as a vegan when most of society is against you.
@@Ermude10 Well. Im not against you. Omnivore here btw. Tried vegan. Didnt work. But when i started eat beef almost daily i never got sick again! We are all different. But fun fact is that there hasnt never been a vegan tribes.
@@lagzy-861 Sure there's never been vegan "tribes" but there's definitely been (and still exist) small vegan societies such as the Jains.
I'm vegan, and while I think it's entirely possible for the majority of people to live a healthy life on a plant based diet, I also do think that a small amount of animal food is probably beneficial health-wise to cover up the areas that's hard to get from a pure plant based diet. But that amount is waaay lower than what any normal omnivore is eating in the western world.
So if it was purely for my health, I'd probably eat just a little bit of animal foods at levels where it doesn't significantly increase the risk factors. But ultimately, I'm vegan for ethical reason. The horrors we put billions (and trillions if counting sea life) _every year_ is the greatest tragedy in the history on earth.
Jains are not even on a veganic dietary pattern, they drink milk and consume dairy products. besides, Jainism is far older than veganism, so you can't call them 'vegan' societies. also, the use of loaded language is not considered even close to an argument. I do, however, respect your ethical convictions and encourage you to keep abstaining from meat. mistakes are the helluva good way to learn @@Ermude10
You mean “ informed.” There, fixed it .
As someone who does precious little research on the subject , I can see how you would be threatened by accurate information that challenges what you like to eat
I'm a whati'velearned subscriber and ofc this is such a complex thing with so much conflicting information that I personally can't say anything conclusive. I'm just happy we have a platform like youtube so everybody can share information and discuss things. At the end of the day I always feel like I don't know shit..I just think I do
Unfortunately it's not about "discussion" It's about *dishonesty*. Cherry picking studies funded by meat corporations and also avoiding pro vegan aspects of other studies that he uses is not "a healthy discussion". It's him making money by supporting rich people
@@petyrbaelish2000 I thought about cherry picking for a while, but that's what most ppl do. It is however a valid argument. I basically subscribed to Mic because I love debunking videos, especially when it comes to my fav channels
WIL is utter bullshit pseudoscience. the channel regularly features crackpots like jordan peterson. if WIL has earned your subscription you should seriously turn off youtube and look at the positions of organizations like the WHO, NIH, and AHA on how ineffective to terrible the things WIL recommends really are for you.
I am also a subscriber and I think it's good to take infos from both extremes 😉
@@petyrbaelish2000 both sides cherry-pick. I don't know what to believe anymore.
I used to be vegan for 14 y, this is the reason why I still follow and listen to your videos. Unfortunately, I almost died because of 2 autoimmune disease that apperead during this period: a hormonal one and a digestive one. I tried all I could to not fell of the vegan vagon until I could not eat fibre anymore. I got intolerant to it, which is the worst thing ever. My intestines were shredded and I still recover, after 5 years not being vegan anymore. I respect the orthodox lent which means 40 days plant-based. And the last one had such a bad influence for my body, that I was forced to stop eating any plant... I am carnivore now, not because I wanted, but because I can't eat anything else! I hope in the future I will be able to eat again at least fruits. So, in conclusion, there is no such thing as a perfect diet for everyone. I would never ever go vegan again and nor recommend it to anyone. And I'm not the only struggling. From the vegan community I was part of, plenty of people failed on this way of life. And are now struggling to be healthy again. So we have to be a bit skeptic about anything, to keep our minds open and to tell people that it may not help them. Again, vegan food is not for everybody. Your love for animals shall not kill you.
Have a happy and fulfilling life!
Skipped a lot of things in this "debunk"
After watching both videos it is funny how just by attitude alone I prefer the other one, this guy is acting so snobbish and elitist, but then most of his "debunks" can be said equally to vegan diets. Most studies on the vegan side are paid by vegan rich people to make the other side look bad. Instead of being the smarter man and saying "as humans we are all different and some can live with meat, without meat, etc, but no diet is for everyone" he decided to act as all he knows is right. Immediate downvote. Nothing is good in excess.
Man, it seems at this point you've made so many videos about this it has become "just another day" for you.
He did not say that a vegan diet causes crooked teeth. However, if you put it in the context, it belongs your processed veggie dogs, and my stupid hotdogs do the same thing to the teeth. And if you would get off your vegan high horse for just two seconds, you would understand that peanuts are better than peanut butter. Because it gives your mouth a work out something to chew on. Now a State would be better than apple sauce or even hamburger because once again, it gives your mouth something to chew on. But if we really have to go some thing as far as a plan to bass an apple, rather than applesauce, a steak rather than hamburger that type of thing. Quit accusing people of taking stuff out of context when you can’t stop taking stuff out of context, your own damn self.
Hi! I've had this question for a while, and can't seem to find an answer to it. One of the arguments people use is that vegans are not healthier because they're vegan, but because they're more health conscious in general; e.g. not eating highly processed foods, exercise etc. There are some studies that seem to point toward that direction. What do you think?
Nailed it. you got it.
The adventist health study 2 covers this. They are ALL health conscious. Regular excercise, no alcohol, high community role and purpose. They were seperated into four sub groups meat eating, pescatarian, vegetarian , vegan. Meat eating group performed the worst out of all groups across all mortality/health indicaters. The pescatarian and vegan groups were the best performers with pesco coming out insignificantly better which authors mentioned in the limitations having no real difference between the two diets with deviation or marginal error.
Listen, veganism doesn't work for everybody. Meat is not the devil. Find what works for you.
16:54 On better CVD profile.
The study mentioned stating a "favorable" CVD profile leans to the bias of what favorable means (Lipid profile, inflammation markers, nutrition, etc). That same study shows all groups have relatively low HOMA-IR and hsCRP levels. However, the TG:HDL ratio is lowest for Omnivores and that makes having the highest Total cholesterol and LDL is meaningless. The concordance demonstrated in the Framingham study shows this.
"In vegans, high estimated intakes of fiber, folate, vitamin C, carotenoids, and magnesium and low saturated fat, cholesterol, and sucrose indicate an 'unprocessed' type of PBD, which may explain their more favorable CVD risk profile."
Compared to SAD and a diet with ultra-processed food and food made with processed or even Cold-pressed Seed oils, a well-planned Vegan diet with supplementation will indeed be better.
I think the Blue Zone diet is the best given that those people live the longest. I try to read about all the people that live longest and find out about their diet and I just about never hear they are vegetarians or vegans. They all have healthy diets that include some meat. Mostly plants but not completely meat-free.
One blue zone---- Loma Linda, put it to the test.... They have a significant portion of vegetarians and vegans as well as meat eaters (fish, poultry, red meat) . Vegans (not vegetarians) out performed their health conscious meat eating group counterparts. Pescitarians (eating fish once or twice) were on par with vegans and authors confirmed that limitations addressed the margin was very insignificant (pesco marginaly and insignificantly better on paper)
So if your angle is health, be as plant based as possible. No need for copius amounts of meat
When I cut down my meat consumption, I felt low energy and weak. When I greatly cut out flour and wheat from my diet, I started to feel way better, less gut problems and more alert. When I finally cut out vegetables from my diet (of meat and veggies) I felt the same (I do feel less bloated). I still feel great on a mainly meat diet after cutting veggies 5 years ago.
Because that's human's natural diet.
What does your blood work show?
Cutting out veggies as a whole doesn't sound very healthy though. I currently agree with WIL but still.
@@skeptic_lemon Why doesn't it sound healthy? Veggies and whole plants for the most part don't taste good, that's your body telling us not to eat that junk. Humans are weird, we ignore our senses.
@@granddaddyofthemall6320 Not according to science
The reason vegans often are healthier than non-vegans is because when u r vegan that often means you live a healthy lifestyle. You cant compare vegans to omnivores since most omnivores are just people who eat mcdonalds, which is obviously not healthy. However, for people who eat natural foods like red meat and live a healthy lifestlye, they will probably be healthier than vegans since they dont need to take like 30 vitamins. Also, you acting like hes biased(which he is) but you are too. Youre litterally a vegan, so dont call him out for what you have too. I agree with you on the teeth thing tho
as a vegan all you need to take is b 12. and omnis get it also unnaturally because animals get it as a subliment themselves. so " 30 vitamins " is wrong if you eat healthy.
@@Tiifa90 I definetly exaggerated. However, doesn't the fact that you have to take a supplement already tell you being vegan isn't the best diet? Also, the supplement is never gonna be as good as the real thing.
Omnivore diet doesn’t mean eating junk food.
exactly@@sairobot7336
I feel that veganism works for some ppl and omnivorism works for others. And carnivorism works for others too.
There was a study that showed that about 5% of people in Northern Europe are lactose jntolerant but 80% of the people in Asia, and Africa, are lactose intolerant but most Afrjcans and Asians still eat dairy from time to time.
There was another study that was done on Inuit people that showed that they've genetically become able to have a good diet even with Mostly seal consumption.
See . Different things work for different people in my opinion. We should let people eat what they want. The only time we should stop a person from doing something is when it harms the livelihoods of other less fortunate people or it puts theblife of other people in danger.
Usually response videos are longer than the video they are a response to, but this response is 25% shorter than WIL's video. At most 10 minutes of WIL's video is shown here, indicating that you filtered out all the things that you couldn't argue against.
Comparing exercise with veganism in terms of drop out rate is ridiculous.
Vegans stop being vegan because they experience nutritional problem, whereas the people who skip exercise do it for several reason including not enough time, not enough benefits and the list goes on. No one skip exercise because it has a bad effect on their health.
A significant difference between the two video's is that WIL argued that vegan is not enough, i.e some intake of animal products is necessary, while you argue that you should avoid animal products.
WIL's argument is that you can't get all necessary nutrients through a vegan diet unless you also take supplements, which you actually prove you agree to yourself by willingly being sponsored by a supplement product. if you live in an area without accces to a pharmacy you can't get the supplements, which means that you have to include animal products in your diet.
And all the complications that you mention is not due to the intake of animal products, but rather that you have a too high intake of animal products in relation to non-animal products.
I am a meat eater myself, but I love a vegan meals once in a while. I actually know a ton of delicious vegan dishes.
"Vegans stop being vegan because they experience nutritional problem" You have no evidence for that. Of course people will _claim_ that, they're not gonna say "I stopped because I loved bacon so much". But in my experience, most of the time, all you'll hear people say were those nutritional problems were either deficiencies easily solved within a vegan diet or stuff about them feeling "tired", while no scientific study has ever established a causal link there.
The only supplement you really need is b12. Most people have huge "deficits" going by ideal amounts of nutrient intakes btw. And yet they do just fine. I suspect the nutrient deficit stuff in general is overblown diet hysteria. You can be and feel healthy on just about any popular diet imo.
I've watched both videos and at the end I'm mixed about if vegan diet is the way to go or not... I'll just stick to the diet I'm currently on, with about 89% of my diet being plant based (mostly frozen veggies, mushrooms, with wreaths in form of tortillas and mixed nuts and dried fruits) and 9% of it being meat (mostly fish, shrimps and other aquatic creatures... I probably need to put milk, honey and butter in my diet) the remaining is just sweets, snackos and street food
Why mostly frozen veggies? Why not a more healthy mix of plant based foods in there (fresh fruit & veggies, legumes, nuts, seeds, mushrooms)? Notice I'm not saying anything about your animal products. Why would you want to add milk & butter?
@@mayhu3282 there are some people saying that frozen foods are healthier because they pack more nutrients than unfrozen foods, due to them being frozen asap, the nutrients in them don't degrade as much as if left unfrozen... I added milk to my diet cause I don't want to rely on supplements, had a checkup lately and the doc also suggested I add more spinach and tuna cause I'm lacking in nutrients that they have... it's dangerous playing with your health by forcing a strict diet, heck even herbivores like goats snack on smaller animals sometimes...
What a bubble channel, lol. Anything critical is immediately blocked 😎
I have looked into human health. Not a professional, but I have made some observations as a lay person. Humans require both cobalamin (vitamin B-12) which has only two sources, one is meat, and the other is a bacterium that is occasionally brewed up in brewer's yeast (not all, which is why some yeasts have B-12, and some don't!) . Some people have trouble absorbing the cobalamin from the bacterial source. I am one of them. Another vitamin humans need is vitamin C. This can only be had from vegetation. Long story short. My observation is Humans require BOTH Plants and animal foods. We are Omnivores.
B12 isn't created BY the animal but can sometimes be created IN the animal by gut bacteria, but generally they have to eat B12 from somewhere else. Normally the animals would get B12 from bugs/bacteria in their diet, but on the factory farms they try to maintain conditions that prevent growth of bugs/bacteria. The animals are instead given supplements for B12, so eating factory farmed meat to get B12 is just taking supplements by proxy. We were designed to eat a bit of bugs/bacteria. Fermented foods are a good thing to consider.
That's why we are OMNIVOROUS
B12 has other sources, like soils and algae. And at most you're making a case for vegetarianism here. That's assuming there's anything evil about taking a single supplement, which there isn't, though, so this is just not serious.
@@spiritnone2818 Was not aware of the soil source of B12, could you tell me more? And what algae is also B 12? Thanks in advance.
Ah, you need to look at the real problem : sugar and processed food. Veganism is dangerous, just eat all healthy food, which includes veggies and meats.
Arguing that meat is carcinogenic is quite idiotic imo, you just need to look at the track record and how much more meat people used to eat, and despite that, the rates of cancer were way lower than they currently are.
In fact , sugar is way more likely to promote cancer than meat
this guy didn't debunk anything lmaoo
Your knowledge of science and diet is all showcased on your RUclips™ channel.
Just continuing confirming why being vegan is the best for our family. I also notice compared to my sisters kids my girls don’t get as sick as much.
Very true. My kids have never had a "stomach bug" or any kind of food poisoning or bad flu. When they say they feel sick it's just a sore throat or runny nose 99% of the time, which makes me laugh, but also smile :)
Its definetly not the best for your family. Just live a healthy lifestyle, dont be vegan and need to take so many supplements
proof? @@SM_MEX
Interesting how he didn’t want to interview someone like me who saw an incredible improvement in my digestive system since going vegan. Massive cramping, issues going and bloating and abdominal pain was all a norm in my life until going vegan. That doesn’t mean I haven’t experienced any issues since going vegan, things with high amounts of oil or grease will trigger a bad digestive reaction, so I pretty much just stay away from fried foods to avoid that. Otherwise, my vegan diet has basically healed my digestive system.
When I tried to be a vegetarian, the result was that I farted continuously, had 5-7 bowel movements with diarrhea daily, brain fog. lack of concentration and chronic fatigue. All that gone when moved to low carb/keto. Not prediabetes signs and lab results like during omnivore and vegetarian, weight reduction from 106 to 76 kg and stable there. Much better physical performance. So?
@@jimyhendrix492 Was your diet largely unprocessed green leafies, fruit, nuts and seeds? The people in a study I'm involved in often had that spectrum of symptoms prior to dietary correction because they misunderstood what a primate (we are great apes) diet actually is, and were consuming lots of grains, bread, cereals, pseudo-meats, and simple carbs (in addition to an insufficient handful of fruits and veggies). The true primate diet contains LOTS of fruit and leafy greens that are high protein, and nuts and seeds with appropriate fatty acid profiles. It may also contain the occasional insect or small critter. This diet will prevent, not cause, insulin spikes. Unfortunately, the Western 'vegan' diet is often waaaaaaay off.
@@jimyhendrix492 Humans SHOULD have more than one bowel movement daily, likely 2-3, and will if they have sufficient fibrous bulk in their gut, with the corresponding correct gut flora. There should not be diarrhea, excessive gas or the other symptoms you mentioned. That spectrum of symptoms is the classic set of signs indicating maladjustment to an inappropriate ratio of food types, perhaps including ones that should never be eaten at all. Can't say for sure though, as I don't know precisely what you diet consisted of.
@@mountaingirl1753 Yes! That's why I switched to keto and now I have 2-3 bowel movements in the morning, no bloating, normal weight and much better physical and, most of all, cognitive performance.
About reversing diabetes, you can reverse diabetes on vegan keto, not on the diabetic's plate. For people with high sugar they're(ADA is) recommending more sugar. Doctors are taking most people off of insulin using keto. In fact, there is no need for carbs. While there are essential proteins and fatty acids, there are no essential carbohydrates.
lmao, i'm 100% unvaxed and almost full carnivore meat predominant diet... only had COVID twice, but both experiences was very mild... same with the rest of my family who are also meat eaters.. unvaxxed and COVID didn't phase us one bit.. the sources in this video is fake news bruh.
Nobody cares about your anecdotal experience. Most people's experience with COVID was mild anyway, vaxxed or not, it wasn't a very virulent disease. The problem was how contagious it was and dangerous for people with comorbidities. The studies still establish what they do however.