Bob, that was the most excellent series and thank you so much for doing them. The Eureka tool was a bit of a mystery to me but you broke the process down, built and demonstrated. I think you you deserve the T shirt my friend. A job well done! Joe
Thanks Joe...got a few jobs to finish then I'm back on the grasshopper clock...back to brass parts once again! This has really been good fun... I learned a lot...bob
I made it through all the videos and hate that there isn't more of them. Personally ,I feel you owe me nothing. If anything I owe you a gratitude of thanks for the knowledge you have given and time you have spent making the videos to share. Looking forward to the next project. Till then many thanks.
Thank you once again, Bob, for making this Eureka Tool series. I learned a lot from you there throughout the whole series so I someday might make my own gears with a self-made eureka tool, button tool, gear blanks, and gear cutters. But first I got to do the restoration of my South Bend 9" Late and a major cleaning up in my tiny shop. :) I also looking forward to your next project. Best regards. Jim
Thanks for your video, it made me curious, I tried this method and it works very well, the curve mounted on the gear model made with freecad and the curve generated with the program for the involute drawing that I made some time ago, are quite similar !! !!, I recommend it.
Hey Rob great to see and hear you with this build, that devil is in the details and you clearly share this, so this follow up is a great thing to join you on. Research for us and likely you is a natural it is to us a watchmakers rule of thumb to need to read a lot. You machined a nice couple of tools they look really nice for shaping your cutters, we sure love your being able to cut gears and make wheel cutters. Thank you for sharing, we so enjoyed this series, they are done nice. Lance & Patrick.
Thanks guys...in the first part of the video...at my desk...that black thing in the background is my newly blued Carl Weis Stero Microscope...I just finished turning a balance staff on the old Moseley...I love that chemical bluing...it makes old stuff pop...thanks for sharing...bob
@@robertt-cs8fe We see that wonderful microscope now that you pointed it our we are always so focused on your content Bob, we both really enjoy being a part in your world, we are so happy, and that microscope maybe it gets some lime light (blame on a pair of viewers requested or a show off moment LOL) so we can all see it someday we will be here when you are ready to share it and not tease us with it any longer, the cold bluing is so easy to do you can get (trust Lance here) carried away, but hey until then enjoy the finer finished items nearest you that stuff does add class in our opinion. Lance & Patrick. Sorry to double reply, usually we just thumbs up replies but you shared greatness that warranted a response.
Actually I tried to make a video of the balance staff build...which features the Microscope and using a shellac chuck...but very difficult...you zoom in on something and then my big hand changes the focus...I've got to do something different to get into something like that...but I think it would be neat so it stays in the back of my head...bob
G’day Bob, it’s been a thoroughly good series, it’s been a pleasure to watch. I have a similar QCTP on my mini lathe and suffer the same problem when working it hard especially when parting off. I’m thinking of making a number of standard tool posts and just unscrew and change out the tool post assembly, just waiting to buy some stock. Cheers Peter
Hola 😊 gracias por tu contenido de el canal, tengo una pregunta que tipo de acero o referencia utilizas para esas herramientas de corte de antemano gracias saludos desde Colombia 🇨🇴
Great video, exactly the reason I don't use QCTP on mini or small lathe.. I think your the first person to show the torque 'bending' toolpost due to the offset. Same thing happens but to lesser extent on big lathes. with maybe 5" toolpost. Really like the button cutter, I need to make a largish gear sometime Not sure of tooth form or pressure angle yet but tooth root is around 0.130" and will be about 6" OD. Don't know why I find gear calculations so difficult as they seem so simple written down???
I have an atlas 10d that lets the tool pull down like yours is doing, I made a machinists jack and tighten it up under the tool holder and it fixes that problem, good video thanx
Thanks a lot...nice to know even a bigger lathe has this problem...my shop is kinda geared to small stuff...my Atlas 618 is my "Big Lathe"...I'm making a machinist's jack soon...I use my rotary table at a 90 degree angle a lot and I have a tail stock but I want a CRS jack (I have an aluminum jack I built now its time for a steel one)...bob
Better addition to your torch routine. Chuck up mandrel in lathe, which is turning REAL SLOW while you torch. Then you knock if off into the water as you do. If you have a lathe with electronic motor speed control (such as VFD), this is easy. You could also use a rotary indexer with stepper drive to do this.
If you've got sufficient change gears it should be possible to machine a hob rather than a single tooth cutter. You can then rig an encoder to the back of the spindle and use a milling spindle with a servo motor and a small adruinio processor to rotate the gear blank in sync with the cutter in the headstock. It's more messing to make a hob, but means you only need one for any tooth count.. This is on my own to-do list.
This is quite interesting as a 23 year old getting into machining. I've made single point cutters for spline work, but haven't considered making my own multi-point cutters. One suggestion would be to grind a dish into the top of the buttons and grind the relief angle all the way around the button on the lathe. Right now you only have a relief angle on the x-axis and not the z-axis which is preventing the button from cutting uniformly around it's circumference in the plunge. Also, your quick-change tool post needs some work if its managing to wedge the tool into the work like that. The tool post on my Clausing 14" model 6913 is pretty stout.
the Atlas 618 is small and was made to use a lantern holder back in the day and it worked...but the QCTP hikes out to the left just a bit too far for this lathe when plunging into tool steel...I've owned the lathe for quite some time and I can only think of a couple of times I went back to the lantern...a lot of guys I know on a forum still prefer the lantern post...the top relief of 4 degrees and the zero top relief did not feel much different to me and as I said if asked I'd say go with zero relief first and change if you have to...I found the same thing when plunge cutting into the same tool steel while making hobs...I think the hob plunge cut was easier maybe because I used the cutter upside down on the backside...in the future I might try this with a button cutter...I also want to try using a single button and reverse the blank as I did on the demo of Robert Porter's gear cutter method...lots of ways to do this...a lot depends upon your equipment...bob
@@robertt-cs8fe I wanted to thank you for sharing your work with us. I was doing some reading on John Stevenson's write up and I just wanted to point out a flaw with his 2 button form tool. The buttons are angled towards the cutting edge 5 degrees to form the front rake, however the sides of the buttons are parallel to each other forming a 0 degree side rake. As you plunge into the work the cutting edge moves in between the two buttons. Because of the 0 degree side relief angle, the further in the tool plunges the relief angle diminishes which will cause the tool to rub and heat up, might even pinch the tool and pull the tool post down. My solution would be to mount the buttons vertically in the tool and cut a taper uniformly around the circumference of the button so the top surface is a larger diameter than the bottom. While the button blank is still on the lathe turn down the shank on the end, use the cross feed to cut the taper on the head, and then part the button off. Once the buttons have been parted off you can mount them in the tool and grind top surface flat.
I'd give it a shot... I did not find the buttons heated up much that is why I did not use set screws on the second holder...the square file creates side relief below the buttons but the sides of the buttons do look to rub...be careful with your taper...you do not want to change the button diameter...it is critical...maybe leave enough of the sides so you can sharpen the buttons without changing the top diameter...I made a total of 6 cutters and I sharpened the buttons before and after cutting the form on the circumference so when the tool was used in the Eureka tool is was plenty sharp and ready to go...with the 4 degree top rake that meant using heat to remove the buttons...they were in there pretty good...buttons are easy and quick to make so I'd give the taper a try...if the taper doesn't change the cut much then I'd secure for a plunge cut into tool steel with a straight sided button....if your tool post pulls down your finish will suffer too...the lantern tool post that Atlas designed for my lathe stopped that...but it is still a trying cut...tnx a lot for sharing...very interesting...bob...
to reduce the load on the button tool you could pre shape the blank with bevels of an appropriate angle thus removing some metal befor plunging with the button tool.
This is great video, ideally enjoyed your comprehensive approach and expalanation. Thanks Bob. You don't mind the cutter material, was that high speed steel or tool steel?
Thanks Bob. This was a great series and I would watch them all again. You do an amazing job of explaining everything. Do you know if the South Bend 9 inch has INVOLUTE GEAR CUTTER with 14-1/2 Deg. PA? I can't find the size anywhere.
I do not have first hand knowledge but have been told all the South Bend gears have a 14.5 PA (this makes perfect sense). But the DP varies…spindle, two reverse idlers and the inner stud gear are 18 DP. The stud gear, banjo idler gear, gearbox input gear are 16 DP. I got this second hand but have no reason to believe it is wrong...Hope that helps…bob
I really enjoyed this video, thanks. My question is: the book you showed us, Is that one the British edition by Ivan Law, workshop practice series #17? Thanks again, very valuable viewing.
Karl...if you have a bench grinder with an adjustable table...set table to the angle...using square stock drill the stem size hole with a set screw to hold the button...then carefully grind on the side of the wheel...or put the square stock in your lathe tool post...and chuck up a grinding wheel in the head-stock...cover up lathe for grinding bits...hope that helps...bob
Yes I showed that several times intentionally...spinning in the chuck stopped the QCTP from really dipping down (the torque from the back gears is impressive)...and I was only just starting the cut...the QCTP caught the part...dipped and locked on the part causing the part to spin...that is why I changed over to the lantern tool post...no dipping...no matter how you make a gear cutter...a hob...a multi tooth cutter like Robert Porter's...or this button tool (the 3 methods I've videoed)...you gotta make a very precise plunge cut into tool steel...with a small lathe it can be challenging...bob
You did a great job on these videos. Congratulation! Question: The button spacing 0.3234. Is that the center to center hole spacing or the gap space between the two buttons?
Thanks Al...center to center...wish I had a list of common lathe change gear pitches...be interesting to run the numbers...I had it on my to do list but somehow it got by me...I did not get into the numbers much because both John Stevenson and Mikesworkshop do a great job on their web sites...bob
Yes...the same method I used making Robert Porter's multi tooth cutter...I thought about it...but the lantern tool post was not so bad...remember any precise plunge cut into tool steel is challenging...I used oil hardening tool steel for my first hob...totally unbelievable...hard as a rock...a buddy told me to try water hardening...it is hard but oh so much nicer to cut on a small lathe...FYI Robert Porter has a cutter for involute gears too...I have not tried it yet...bob
@@robertt-cs8fe I admire Robert Porters method with the sine bar slide rest. This is the only method I have seen which allows for the correct contact angle per number of teeth on the wheel. It first came to my attention in one of your earlier videos, so allow me a thank YOU for that. The surface finish is the hardest part of making a circular cutter, I would like to try to finish grind the last couple of thou on the cutter. I am not up to that yet, just thinking ahead. Cheers Noel
Sounds good...consider trying a hob to get started in making gear cutters and working up to a button tool approach...that's what I did and I learned a lot along the way...bob
@@robertt-cs8fe My brother is considering purchasing a set of pre-made hobs since he says they are 'cheap and easy to get' but if one ever wants something outside of those sizes easily made, indeed one would need to make their own.
Excellent job of demonstrating the design
Bob, that was the most excellent series and thank you so much for doing them. The Eureka tool was a bit of a mystery to me but you broke the process down, built and demonstrated. I think you you deserve the T shirt my friend. A job well done!
Joe
Thanks Joe...got a few jobs to finish then I'm back on the grasshopper clock...back to brass parts once again! This has really been good fun... I learned a lot...bob
the eureka videos made me feel humble.
thanks for making me so.
Thanks Jan...come on along...I'm going back to work on the grasshopper clock and a few other thoughts I've had...bob
I made it through all the videos and hate that there isn't more of them. Personally ,I feel you owe me nothing. If anything I owe you a gratitude of thanks for the knowledge you have given and time you have spent making the videos to share. Looking forward to the next project. Till then many thanks.
Thanks Anthony...I'll be back on the grasshopper clock after a day of shop clean up and some jobs for my wife...bob
Thanks for the video. I'm really enjoying watching your work. Your efforts are much appreciated.
Brian thanks for watching and the nice comment...bob
You are really an honest guy Robert.
Thanks Karl...bob
Thank you once again, Bob, for making this Eureka Tool series. I learned a lot from you there throughout the whole series so I someday might make my own gears with a self-made eureka tool, button tool, gear blanks, and gear cutters. But first I got to do the restoration of my South Bend 9" Late and a major cleaning up in my tiny shop. :)
I also looking forward to your next project.
Best regards. Jim
Thanks Jim...Today is a Honeydo day, but tomorrow I'm back on the grasshopper clock project and cleaning up the shop...bob
Thanks for your video, it made me curious, I tried this method and it works very well, the curve mounted on the gear model made with freecad and the curve generated with the program for the involute drawing that I made some time ago, are quite similar !! !!, I recommend it.
Hey Rob great to see and hear you with this build, that devil is in the details and you clearly share this, so this follow up is a great thing to join you on. Research for us and likely you is a natural it is to us a watchmakers rule of thumb to need to read a lot. You machined a nice couple of tools they look really nice for shaping your cutters, we sure love your being able to cut gears and make wheel cutters.
Thank you for sharing, we so enjoyed this series, they are done nice. Lance & Patrick.
Thanks guys...in the first part of the video...at my desk...that black thing in the background is my newly blued Carl Weis Stero Microscope...I just finished turning a balance staff on the old Moseley...I love that chemical bluing...it makes old stuff pop...thanks for sharing...bob
@@robertt-cs8fe We see that wonderful microscope now that you pointed it our we are always so focused on your content Bob, we both really enjoy being a part in your world, we are so happy, and that microscope maybe it gets some lime light (blame on a pair of viewers requested or a show off moment LOL) so we can all see it someday we will be here when you are ready to share it and not tease us with it any longer, the cold bluing is so easy to do you can get (trust Lance here) carried away, but hey until then enjoy the finer finished items nearest you that stuff does add class in our opinion. Lance & Patrick.
Sorry to double reply, usually we just thumbs up replies but you shared greatness that warranted a response.
Actually I tried to make a video of the balance staff build...which features the Microscope and using a shellac chuck...but very difficult...you zoom in on something and then my big hand changes the focus...I've got to do something different to get into something like that...but I think it would be neat so it stays in the back of my head...bob
G’day Bob, it’s been a thoroughly good series, it’s been a pleasure to watch.
I have a similar QCTP on my mini lathe and suffer the same problem when working it hard especially when parting off. I’m thinking of making a number of standard tool posts and just unscrew and change out the tool post assembly, just waiting to buy some stock.
Cheers
Peter
Hey Peter...I'm with you I've got a post assembly on my Sherline and just undo the center screw and go to the QCTP...kinda handy...G'day...bob
Hola 😊 gracias por tu contenido de el canal, tengo una pregunta que tipo de acero o referencia utilizas para esas herramientas de corte de antemano gracias saludos desde Colombia 🇨🇴
Great video, exactly the reason I don't use QCTP on mini or small lathe.. I think your the first person to show the torque 'bending' toolpost due to the offset. Same thing happens but to lesser extent on big lathes. with maybe 5" toolpost. Really like the button cutter, I need to make a largish gear sometime Not sure of tooth form or pressure angle yet but tooth root is around 0.130" and will be about 6" OD. Don't know why I find gear calculations so difficult as they seem so simple written down???
Thanks Peter...once you have the pitch and pressure angle...it all comes together...have fun making the gear...bob
I have an atlas 10d that lets the tool pull down like yours is doing, I made a machinists jack and tighten it up under the tool holder and it fixes that problem, good video thanx
Thanks a lot...nice to know even a bigger lathe has this problem...my shop is kinda geared to small stuff...my Atlas 618 is my "Big Lathe"...I'm making a machinist's jack soon...I use my rotary table at a 90 degree angle a lot and I have a tail stock but I want a CRS jack (I have an aluminum jack I built now its time for a steel one)...bob
Better addition to your torch routine. Chuck up mandrel in lathe, which is turning REAL SLOW while you torch. Then you knock if off into the water as you do. If you have a lathe with electronic motor speed control (such as VFD), this is easy. You could also use a rotary indexer with stepper drive to do this.
If you've got sufficient change gears it should be possible to machine a hob rather than a single tooth cutter. You can then rig an encoder to the back of the spindle and use a milling spindle with a servo motor and a small adruinio processor to rotate the gear blank in sync with the cutter in the headstock.
It's more messing to make a hob, but means you only need one for any tooth count..
This is on my own to-do list.
14.5 is just what i need to make gears for my sears lathe
This is quite interesting as a 23 year old getting into machining. I've made single point cutters for spline work, but haven't considered making my own multi-point cutters. One suggestion would be to grind a dish into the top of the buttons and grind the relief angle all the way around the button on the lathe. Right now you only have a relief angle on the x-axis and not the z-axis which is preventing the button from cutting uniformly around it's circumference in the plunge. Also, your quick-change tool post needs some work if its managing to wedge the tool into the work like that. The tool post on my Clausing 14" model 6913 is pretty stout.
the Atlas 618 is small and was made to use a lantern holder back in the day and it worked...but the QCTP hikes out to the left just a bit too far for this lathe when plunging into tool steel...I've owned the lathe for quite some time and I can only think of a couple of times I went back to the lantern...a lot of guys I know on a forum still prefer the lantern post...the top relief of 4 degrees and the zero top relief did not feel much different to me and as I said if asked I'd say go with zero relief first and change if you have to...I found the same thing when plunge cutting into the same tool steel while making hobs...I think the hob plunge cut was easier maybe because I used the cutter upside down on the backside...in the future I might try this with a button cutter...I also want to try using a single button and reverse the blank as I did on the demo of Robert Porter's gear cutter method...lots of ways to do this...a lot depends upon your equipment...bob
@@robertt-cs8fe I wanted to thank you for sharing your work with us. I was doing some reading on John Stevenson's write up and I just wanted to point out a flaw with his 2 button form tool. The buttons are angled towards the cutting edge 5 degrees to form the front rake, however the sides of the buttons are parallel to each other forming a 0 degree side rake. As you plunge into the work the cutting edge moves in between the two buttons. Because of the 0 degree side relief angle, the further in the tool plunges the relief angle diminishes which will cause the tool to rub and heat up, might even pinch the tool and pull the tool post down.
My solution would be to mount the buttons vertically in the tool and cut a taper uniformly around the circumference of the button so the top surface is a larger diameter than the bottom. While the button blank is still on the lathe turn down the shank on the end, use the cross feed to cut the taper on the head, and then part the button off. Once the buttons have been parted off you can mount them in the tool and grind top surface flat.
I'd give it a shot... I did not find the buttons heated up much that is why I did not use set screws on the second holder...the square file creates side relief below the buttons but the sides of the buttons do look to rub...be careful with your taper...you do not want to change the button diameter...it is critical...maybe leave enough of the sides so you can sharpen the buttons without changing the top diameter...I made a total of 6 cutters and I sharpened the buttons before and after cutting the form on the circumference so when the tool was used in the Eureka tool is was plenty sharp and ready to go...with the 4 degree top rake that meant using heat to remove the buttons...they were in there pretty good...buttons are easy and quick to make so I'd give the taper a try...if the taper doesn't change the cut much then I'd secure for a plunge cut into tool steel with a straight sided button....if your tool post pulls down your finish will suffer too...the lantern tool post that Atlas designed for my lathe stopped that...but it is still a trying cut...tnx a lot for sharing...very interesting...bob...
Very interesting series. Thanks for sharing!!!
Thanks a lot...bob
to reduce the load on the button tool you could pre shape the blank with bevels of an appropriate angle thus removing some metal befor plunging with the button tool.
I might try that next time...tnx...bob
This is great video, ideally enjoyed your comprehensive approach and expalanation. Thanks Bob.
You don't mind the cutter material, was that high speed steel or tool steel?
HHS is my preferred material...bob
Thanks Bob. This was a great series and I would watch them all again. You do an amazing job of explaining everything. Do you know if the South Bend 9 inch has INVOLUTE GEAR CUTTER with 14-1/2 Deg. PA? I can't find the size anywhere.
I do not have first hand knowledge but have been told all
the South Bend gears have a 14.5 PA (this makes perfect sense). But the DP
varies…spindle, two reverse idlers and the inner stud gear are 18 DP. The stud
gear, banjo idler gear, gearbox input gear are 16 DP. I got this second hand but
have no reason to believe it is wrong...Hope that helps…bob
Most excellent.
Thankyou so much sir sharing this video
Shaikh...thanks for stopping by and I am very pleased you liked it...bob
I really enjoyed this video, thanks.
My question is: the book you showed us,
Is that one the British edition by Ivan Law, workshop practice series #17?
Thanks again, very valuable viewing.
Thanks Bob...yes that is the book...bob
Thanks you so much
Can you provide the links for the documents you shared.?
Great stuff - enjoying your progress.
_Dan_
Dan I'll get them in the intro soon...thanks...bob
another thing robert I want to ask you... I dont have a surface grinder so on the lathe could you do the rake angles ??
Karl...if you have a bench grinder with an adjustable table...set table to the angle...using square stock drill the stem size hole with a set screw to hold the button...then carefully grind on the side of the wheel...or put the square stock in your lathe tool post...and chuck up a grinding wheel in the head-stock...cover up lathe for grinding bits...hope that helps...bob
@@robertt-cs8fe really good idea bob. I will use this information for sure. thanks alot ... karl
Perfect !
Thanks Jesse...bob
CNC baby
Thanks for sharing
thanks Sam...bob
great job I don't know if you know it about 18:00 you can see your part spinning in your Chuck
Yes I showed that several times intentionally...spinning in the chuck stopped the QCTP from really dipping down (the torque from the back gears is impressive)...and I was only just starting the cut...the QCTP caught the part...dipped and locked on the part causing the part to spin...that is why I changed over to the lantern tool post...no dipping...no matter how you make a gear cutter...a hob...a multi tooth cutter like Robert Porter's...or this button tool (the 3 methods I've videoed)...you gotta make a very precise plunge cut into tool steel...with a small lathe it can be challenging...bob
where do we buy the tee shirt? i found this enthraling.
Thanks Emma....I just had a look at your channel...I'll start tonight watching some stuff...thanks for stopping by...bob
You did a great job on these videos. Congratulation! Question: The button spacing 0.3234. Is that the center to center hole spacing or the gap space between the two buttons?
Thanks Al...center to center...wish I had a list of common lathe change gear pitches...be interesting to run the numbers...I had it on my to do list but somehow it got by me...I did not get into the numbers much because both John Stevenson and Mikesworkshop do a great job on their web sites...bob
Hi, Couldnt you use only one button and turn your blank around ?
Yes...the same method I used making Robert Porter's multi tooth cutter...I thought about it...but the lantern tool post was not so bad...remember any precise plunge cut into tool steel is challenging...I used oil hardening tool steel for my first hob...totally unbelievable...hard as a rock...a buddy told me to try water hardening...it is hard but oh so much nicer to cut on a small lathe...FYI Robert Porter has a cutter for involute gears too...I have not tried it yet...bob
@@robertt-cs8fe I admire Robert Porters method with the sine bar slide rest. This is the only method I have seen which allows for the correct contact angle per number of teeth on the wheel. It first came to my attention in one of your earlier videos, so allow me a thank YOU for that.
The surface finish is the hardest part of making a circular cutter, I would like to try to finish grind the last couple of thou on the cutter.
I am not up to that yet, just thinking ahead.
Cheers
Noel
Could you provide links for the button information? Thanks
You'll find them in the intro...bob
Data which I must now acquire...
Sounds good...consider trying a hob to get started in making gear cutters and working up to a button tool approach...that's what I did and I learned a lot along the way...bob
@@robertt-cs8fe My brother is considering purchasing a set of pre-made hobs since he says they are 'cheap and easy to get' but if one ever wants something outside of those sizes easily made, indeed one would need to make their own.
Interesting.
Thanks...bob
Так ине понятки что он делает.
Gear cutters cost nothing today, why to make it yourself?
I think I do it out of a sense of accomplishment and I really enjoy the challenge...bob