I have watched a couple of your videos as a beginning lathe/mill operator. Gears and watch making truly fascinate me. I realize I have along way to go. Hopefully will take me through retirement while still have a sharper mind. Thank you for your video.
robertt4522 yes robert they are very interesting and you need to be in the subject to make them... their is not much information about them on the internet.... so
Another nice video. I have a similar small lathe so I can relate to this. Don't have a surface grinder but I do not have that level of accuracy anyway.
Fascinating, thank you. Can you PLEASE explain what is that white stuff covering the cutter when you heat it? (You said something like 'alchohol') Seems to prevent scaling a treat. Been looking all my life for something to do that.
I mix boric acid (drug store variety) with denatured alcohol to about the consistency of tooth paste in a small container...after you are done the alcohol will leave the boric acid in the container and next time just add more alcohol...bob
waiting for next video to see the cutting..... your explanation was very help full. by the way the material that you used, is it the normal tool steel or it is different grade? the tool steel that I use , I harden it with oil and can reach up to 60rc... without tempering I think it will break some teeth... I am not expert on thus subject.. thanks karl
karl...I've used W1 tool steel for all the cutters I've fabricated...multi-tooth and hobs...I've hardened them all but only tempered properly to straw the hobs used to cut steel gears...brass and aluminum seem fine with just hardening...but remember with a hob you cut only .005" per pass so you create a nice involute curve...with cycloidal cutters Porter advises you not to cut tooth form in a single pass...he uses 3...I've been using 4...more on that next video.
robertt4522 thanks for the information. you have to enter very slowly or else you will broke the hob and the cutter... they are very interesting subject this cutters and hobs.... I really getting into them... thanks robert. waiting to see the next video cutting with the cutter..
Nope.... Either flood cooling or no coolant & gentle grinding, not letting heat build-up is recommended. Workshop Technology part 1 5th edition W. A. J. Chapman Page 165... '' if the supply of water is sparse & intermittant the outside of the tool becomes heated &when a splash of water falls on to it a sudden local quenching takes place leading to minute cracks which sooner or later lead to failure of the tool... " 😎👍☘️🍺
Carbide is a whole 'nother ball game , but I have been quenching high speed in water when free handing lathe tools and drill bits since 1962 High School shop class. The next time I have a tool failure due to micro cracking will be the first time. (Still have the round nose tool I ground back then on my desk - No cracks) - If not for quenching, just what is the water pot for on the pedestal grinders in every tool and die shop for - BTW Tool makers typically do not hold a piece against the tool rest. They only pt their hand against it. Check Abom79 Mr Pete222 Vintage Machinery Joe Pie This Old Tony Blondie Hacks Kieth Fenner. Stephen Gotswinter and Even Clickspring. ,,,,, They all quench HSS in water. Now if you want to see a great way to loose a finger, especially with a 3/16 blank like he is grinding here make sure you have a great big gap between the tool rest and grinding wheel like he has in this vid. - When we catch anybody doing that dunderhead Bob Villa move in our shop the first time he goes home for the rest of the day without pay. The second time he gets his money and is escorted off the property just like a bone head that wears gloves around rotating machinery.
Stolen from elswhere on the net.....- Not my words, but my practice for over 60 years of grinding regular and cobalt HSS lathe tools and sharpening drill bits both freehand and in a tool and cutter grinder. ================================================================= Quenching from 700 F will not cause micro cracking in HSS. Heating a HSS too to visible red heat while grinding will not have any appreciable effect on the temper (hardness of the too), and quenching from visible red heat will not have any effect on the temper of the tool, although it may cause micro cracking. =================================================================
Hi Robert, great video's thanks for sharing them, i have been making a tooth cutter but struggling thinking about the radius & you have the tool the radius grinder. Are the dimensions of this in the book you talk of? Thankyou
There are dimensions for the radius grinder in the book...they are for a watchmakers lathe, but it is quite straight forward to convert them to any small lathe. The book also has all the conversion tables that are needed. Have fun.
Wow..so a nice method: i'm making the same to you, because i need some gears at home, could please indicate to me the name of the white foam that you used around the cutter with gas flame ? Is it easy to find on internet ? Thank you in advance for your answer !!
Pretty awesome video. Ivan Law has a book on making involute cutters similar to what you done. He also shows and gives plans for a device that cuts the back rake in the gear blank. I saw a couple videos on YT of the device and it is hypnotic to watch. It is called the "Eureka" form relieving tool. Worth a look if your interested. Thanks for sharing. Again, a great video. Joe
Tnx Joe...I actually have that book and studied the form relieving tool a bit some time ago...but I forgot about it...you sent me off looking at videos and I thought very interesting and heck I think I have that book...actually taking the book off the shelf brought back my interest...thanks...
I thought it would be kind of cool to make a gear cutter and the relieving tool. Thought about it for a while, but without my little mill up and running I put it on the back burner. You channel was pointed out to me by Richard from MSFN. The cycloidal gear cutter really caught my attention. After reading Law's book a couple of times, I wondered how the cycloidal form was derived. (Aside from the pinion rolling circle on the base circle of the derived gear.) So your video was pretty good, but I will have to buy the books you listed I guess to figure out how the cutter form is developed. That assumes that he tells you rather than just supplying empirical data. Either way, I really enjoyed the video. Thank you for sharing it. Joe
Almost forgot, a Google search will turn up the separate write up and plans for the Eureka tool. If you are looking for it and cannot find it let me know. Joe
Tnx Joe...I've got the book with plans for a 1.25" dia. cutter...my cyclodial cutters are 1"...so I may just play around a bit...as time allows...great project...thanks
I too think it would be cool to make a cyclodial cutter using a form relief tool...not an easy adaptation as is the button tool. Now on cyclodial cutters, Swiss, English and several adaptations are covered nicely in several appendixes in Malcolm Wild's book but Porter's tables are really easy to follow and I have made more then 20 cutters using this method...and although I'd like to figure out a form relief tool...if you stay with Porter's method I believe you will not be disappointed and form relief might be nice but not at all necessary for one off cutters (Of course this is only my opinion based on my experiences). bob
Dear Robert, Great video, very educational...Did see you surface grinder around minute 16 and I am curious what type of grinde this is, looks as if it had a very "slim" form factor. Is is DIY or any brand. Would be grateful if you could indicate with basic dimensions if possible. Currently looking for a tiny surface grinder. Many thanks in advance.
Thanks Michael...my surface grinder is an American made 4" Sanford benchtop...here is a link to the Lathes UK write up: www.lathes.co.uk/sanford/ cheers...bob
Where are you getting your boric acid powder, is it just generic from one of the drugstores or is there a cheaper source? I am assuming too, that the alcohol is denatured alcohol to make the paste. I haven't ever used boric acid to prevent scaling. I have been using stainless tool wrap, but it is quite expensive. I just found your channel while searching for information on the eureka tool and have been enjoying your content.
Thanks Carl...yes denatured alcohol and drug store boric acid...get a container and mix up a batch to your thickness...when you are done just let it sit...it hardens nicely in the container and next time just add the some more alcohol...after hardening I do brush the cutter on a light brass wheel to brighten it some...bob
Great vid and most informative but I don't get why after polishing to a nice smooth surface you then scratch that surface with a ratty wire brush? reversing the cutter will still scratch the surface that was polished.
The brush does no visible damage to the tool steel but the milling cuts need to be deburred before hardening…you might pass up this step if you sharpen the cutter after hardening as I did to the cutter in my video DIY Gear Cutter: Making the Cutter 3 the sharpening starts at about 18:36 in. I made some modifications to the holder and showed them in the second video DIY Gear Cutter: The Button Tool 4. Thanks for stopping by…bob
obrigada ... acho 1045 o aço seria dificil endurecer corretamente ... aço endurecedor de agua (W1) seria melhor eu acho ... eu moro nos EUA ... estado de Maryland
That is an answer best made by pointing you to a site that does a complete job. Have a look here: www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-involute-and-cycloid-gears bob
I have watched a couple of your videos as a beginning lathe/mill operator. Gears and watch making truly fascinate me. I realize I have along way to go. Hopefully will take me through retirement while still have a sharper mind. Thank you for your video.
thanks
Golden, man! I love making my own, functional tooling. Nice work, Bob 👍😎👍
Thanks...bob
Really nice video. Appreciate your guidance
WOW I'm glad i found this channel
I'm glad
This is really nice stuff. You make it look simple. I really appreciate it, just discovered your channel.
Thanks Markos...I try to put out at least one video each month...hope to see ya...bob
i was waiting for you video.. i also made some reaserch about cyclodial cutters... thanks again robert
your welcome...gear cutters are pretty interesting huh?
robertt4522 yes robert they are very interesting and you need to be in the subject to make them... their is not much information about them on the internet.... so
Cycloidal. Not cyclodial. From 'cycloid'.
You must be very satisfied with your work. I is great.
Thank you by sharing your info, time and knowledge. :)
My pleasure!
Excellent Visio. As usual. I need to make some gears. Thanks
Thanks a lot...hope it helps with your gear cutting.
Most excellent.
Another nice video. I have a similar small lathe so I can relate to this. Don't have a surface grinder but I do not have that level of accuracy anyway.
Thanks Manick...surface grinder is not necessary at all...I use mine cause I have one...bob
@@robertt-cs8fe I like the finish you get from it though. I have seen it in operation at a workshop where they were finishing a guillotine blade.
Fascinating, thank you. Can you PLEASE explain what is that white stuff covering the cutter when you heat it? (You said something like 'alchohol') Seems to prevent scaling a treat. Been looking all my life for something to do that.
I mix boric acid (drug store variety) with denatured alcohol to about the consistency of tooth paste in a small container...after you are done the alcohol will leave the boric acid in the container and next time just add more alcohol...bob
@@robertt-cs8fe so do I.. I want give same question, but the answer is in here.. thank you sir.
Hello, interesting video. A cuestion: What material did to made the tool mill?. Thank You.
Could you show us, how to make helical gears? It would be a big help
waiting for next video to see the cutting..... your explanation was very help full. by the way the material that you used, is it the normal tool steel or it is different grade? the tool steel that I use , I harden it with oil and can reach up to 60rc... without tempering I think it will break some teeth... I am not expert on thus subject.. thanks karl
karl...I've used W1 tool steel for all the cutters I've fabricated...multi-tooth and hobs...I've hardened them all but only tempered properly to straw the hobs used to cut steel gears...brass and aluminum seem fine with just hardening...but remember with a hob you cut only .005" per pass so you create a nice involute curve...with cycloidal cutters Porter advises you not to cut tooth form in a single pass...he uses 3...I've been using 4...more on that next video.
robertt4522 thanks for the information. you have to enter very slowly or else you will broke the hob and the cutter... they are very interesting subject this cutters and hobs.... I really getting into them... thanks robert. waiting to see the next video cutting with the cutter..
Quenching hss in water while grinding is standard practice. It won't hurt anything.
n
Nope....
Either flood cooling or no coolant & gentle grinding, not letting heat build-up is recommended.
Workshop Technology part 1
5th edition
W. A. J. Chapman
Page 165...
'' if the supply of water is sparse & intermittant the outside of the tool becomes heated &when a splash of water falls on to it a sudden local quenching takes
place leading to minute cracks which sooner or later lead to failure of the tool... "
😎👍☘️🍺
Carbide is a whole 'nother ball game , but I have been quenching high speed in water when free handing lathe tools and drill bits since 1962 High School shop class. The next time I have a tool failure due to micro cracking will be the first time. (Still have the round nose tool I ground back then on my desk - No cracks) - If not for quenching, just what is the water pot for on the pedestal grinders in every tool and die shop for - BTW Tool makers typically do not hold a piece against the tool rest. They only pt their hand against it.
Check
Abom79
Mr Pete222
Vintage Machinery
Joe Pie
This Old Tony
Blondie Hacks
Kieth Fenner.
Stephen Gotswinter
and Even Clickspring.
,,,,, They all quench HSS in water.
Now if you want to see a great way to loose a finger, especially with a 3/16 blank like he is grinding here make sure you have a great big gap between the tool rest and grinding wheel like he has in this vid. - When we catch anybody doing that dunderhead Bob Villa move in our shop the first time he goes home for the rest of the day without pay. The second time he gets his money and is escorted off the property just like a bone head that wears gloves around rotating machinery.
Stolen from elswhere on the net.....- Not my words, but my practice for over 60 years of grinding regular and cobalt HSS lathe tools and sharpening drill bits both freehand and in a tool and cutter grinder.
=================================================================
Quenching from 700 F will not cause micro cracking in HSS. Heating a HSS too to visible red heat while grinding will not have any appreciable effect on the temper (hardness of the too), and quenching from visible red heat will not have any effect on the temper of the tool, although it may cause micro cracking.
=================================================================
Hi Robert, great video's thanks for sharing them, i have been making a tooth cutter but struggling thinking about the radius & you have the tool the radius grinder. Are the dimensions of this in the book you talk of?
Thankyou
There are dimensions for the radius grinder in the book...they are for a watchmakers lathe, but it is quite straight forward to convert them to any small lathe. The book also has all the conversion tables that are needed. Have fun.
Wow..so a nice method: i'm making the same to you, because i need some gears at home, could please indicate to me the name of the white foam that you used around the cutter with gas flame ? Is it easy to find on internet ? Thank you in advance for your answer !!
It's most likely borax(flux) Mix powder with water and apply to piece to prevent oxidation.
Pretty awesome video. Ivan Law has a book on making involute cutters similar to what you done. He also shows and gives plans for a device that cuts the back rake in the gear blank. I saw a couple videos on YT of the device and it is hypnotic to watch. It is called the "Eureka" form relieving tool. Worth a look if your interested. Thanks for sharing. Again, a great video.
Joe
Tnx Joe...I actually have that book and studied the form relieving tool a bit some time ago...but I forgot about it...you sent me off looking at videos and I thought very interesting and heck I think I have that book...actually taking the book off the shelf brought back my interest...thanks...
I thought it would be kind of cool to make a gear cutter and the relieving tool. Thought about it for a while, but without my little mill up and running I put it on the back burner. You channel was pointed out to me by Richard from MSFN. The cycloidal gear cutter really caught my attention. After reading Law's book a couple of times, I wondered how the cycloidal form was derived. (Aside from the pinion rolling circle on the base circle of the derived gear.) So your video was pretty good, but I will have to buy the books you listed I guess to figure out how the cutter form is developed. That assumes that he tells you rather than just supplying empirical data. Either way, I really enjoyed the video. Thank you for sharing it.
Joe
Almost forgot, a Google search will turn up the separate write up and plans for the Eureka tool. If you are looking for it and cannot find it let me know.
Joe
Tnx Joe...I've got the book with plans for a 1.25" dia. cutter...my cyclodial cutters are 1"...so I may just play around a bit...as time allows...great project...thanks
I too think it would be cool to make a cyclodial cutter using a form relief tool...not an easy adaptation as is the button tool. Now on cyclodial cutters, Swiss, English and several adaptations are covered nicely in several appendixes in Malcolm Wild's book but Porter's tables are really easy to follow and I have made more then 20 cutters using this method...and although I'd like to figure out a form relief tool...if you stay with Porter's method I believe you will not be disappointed and form relief might be nice but not at all necessary for one off cutters (Of course this is only my opinion based on my experiences). bob
Amazing work , just subbed !
Thanks John...bob
Fascinating.
Dear Robert,
Great video, very educational...Did see you surface grinder around minute 16 and I am curious what type of grinde this is, looks as if it had a very "slim" form factor. Is is DIY or any brand. Would be grateful if you could indicate with basic dimensions if possible. Currently looking for a tiny surface grinder. Many thanks in advance.
Thanks Michael...my surface grinder is an American made 4" Sanford benchtop...here is a link to the Lathes UK write up:
www.lathes.co.uk/sanford/
cheers...bob
Where are you getting your boric acid powder, is it just generic from one of the drugstores or is there a cheaper source? I am assuming too, that the alcohol is denatured alcohol to make the paste. I haven't ever used boric acid to prevent scaling. I have been using stainless tool wrap, but it is quite expensive. I just found your channel while searching for information on the eureka tool and have been enjoying your content.
Thanks Carl...yes denatured alcohol and drug store boric acid...get a container and mix up a batch to your thickness...when you are done just let it sit...it hardens nicely in the container and next time just add the some more alcohol...after hardening I do brush the cutter on a light brass wheel to brighten it some...bob
Very neat.
Thanks a lot...hope you got to see the whole series I'm working on.
So cool!
Craig thanks...i've made 12 cutters so far and I still think they're cool too!
hello I wanted to know what material did you use to build the cutter?
Great vid and most informative but I don't get why after polishing to a nice smooth surface you then scratch that surface with a ratty wire brush? reversing the cutter will still scratch the surface that was polished.
The brush does no visible damage to the tool steel but the milling cuts need to be deburred before hardening…you might pass up this step if you sharpen the cutter after hardening as I did to the cutter in my video DIY Gear Cutter: Making the Cutter 3 the sharpening starts at about 18:36 in. I made some modifications to the holder and showed them in the second video DIY Gear Cutter: The Button Tool 4. Thanks for stopping by…bob
Bom trabalho meu amigo,com aço 1045 pode se fazer essa ferramenta? sou do Brasil e você?
obrigada
... acho 1045 o aço seria dificil endurecer corretamente ... aço endurecedor de
agua (W1) seria melhor eu acho ... eu moro nos EUA ... estado de Maryland
Muito obrigado
What exactly did you compare it to?
thanks
Thanks for stopping by Agus...bob
What is the advantage of using a cycloidal gear?
That is an answer best made by pointing you to a site that does a complete job. Have a look here:
www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-involute-and-cycloid-gears
bob
What kind of diving head etc do you use?
Sherline cnc rotary table, shop made brass dividing plates and odds and ends on the plate mandrel.
для тех,кому на пенсии скучно.
Marvellous, just loose the stupid music. It is boring and adds nothing. At least it drowns out your voice. Groetjes Albert