Tube Head as a Power Amp - 3 Applications
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- Опубликовано: 23 июл 2024
- 00:00 - Intro
01:30 - Rack Preamp (ADA MP-1)
03:40 - Modeller (Fractal Audio FM3)
05:17 - Distortion Pedal (Sinvertek N5+)
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Amps manufacturers should start producing power tube heads specifically designed for modelers, maybe loaded with multiple power tubes types to allow some flexibility for best matching pre and cab.
Yes. I had been thinking the same thing.
I have my Helix and a 1x12 V30 cab and here in Chile you only can find Seymour Duncan PS 170 or Harley Bey GPA 100. There's no Orange Pedal Baby, no Mooer Tube engine..... We are doomed !
@@guille_toledo76 sorry to hear that!
Wow that MP1 sounds so glorious. It has THE essential mid to late 80s metal guitar tone.
It does that thing so well
I run my MP1 through a JCM2000 DSL 100 fx return and it sounds awesome. The deep switch, mid cut and presence controls still work which gives me more cool tone options😀
Sound experiments rikky wow❤
Awesome! Love eating my lunch while watching a daily Leon guitar tips video! Keep em' coming! 😺🐱👤
Leon, great video and tip. This is exactly how I use my Atomic amplifire 12. I run it through the effects return on my Line 6 Bogner 2x12 tube amp. Only the master volume and presence work and I get all the effects from the AA 12. Been able to dial in some great tones!! Works great live, because I still have volume on stage in case the monitor system sucks. Thanks again and cheers!!
Leon, the FM3 sounds outstanding !!!
On point! Thanks for the video!
Good one LT! Thanks for sharing brother and Be Well All!
Thanks big Steve!
Tour Lifesaver. Awesome
Man the ADA preamp and the FM3 Atomica model just ooze sonic goodness! 👍
The sound of an era right there
great video I used to do that all the time I used to have a Peavey XXX and a Mesa boogie quad preamp it sounded amazing through that XXX
That would have been earth shatteringly big
I run a Mooer GE250 through the FX loop of a Peavey XXL Transtube head. Magical combination, it sounds EXACTLY like my tube heads.
The GE series are fantastic!
Hey, nice video with a good explanation, made a lot of things clear! Do I need to plug in my guitar in the input of my guitar head or the input of the external preamp? Thanks in advance !
Additional Tip: If you are lucky enough to own a Mark boogie with the 5 band EQ you have the option to use it for additional tone sculpting.
THIS!
If you want to send a di out for recording, in parallel, use the slave out on a boogie, so as to send the 5 band signal back through the axe too as it is post fx loop. I actually have a kind of 4cm setup, but use input and slave rather than the loop. Worth noting i have a dummy load on the speaker out of the mark 5, then use the axe fx to send stereo outs to a 2:95.
@@laffinarab Nice tip!
I like how on the JCM 2000 you can still use the mid cut, bass boost and presents...I said Presence! Lots of ways to configure everything.
I like the MP1 because you can make your own unique sound. It may sound similar to certain amps but it’s got its own thing going and it definitely will make you stand out a little on stage.
I’m used to external preamp pedals, modellers into fx return. AMT LA2 stuff especially as it allows to run to the front of an amp, fx return and straight to a mixer (all simultaneously if needed). An E2 I own, being recently fitted with an ir loader in place of battery compartment makes it even more versatile. That’s what I use mostly at various rehearsal spaces, when time is crucial.
I also recently discovered a use of an engaged tuner pedal placed fully into the loop of my Palmer FAT50 which has a dialed parallel/series mode - that’s another way to tame a loud amp if the master volume doesn’t cut it gentle enough - a mere parallel ‘silence’ dial in)
Great vid Leon.
That ADA mp1 preamp sounded sooooo damn good sir. I played one at a huge pool party back in the day with a Nady wireless and Marshall power amp in a rac if memory doesn't fail me. I also used a charvel model 2 that was so cool with just one humbucker in the bridge positiin. . It was sooo much fun because I got to show off and do a huge long solo in fromt of like around 1k audiance on the Ted Nugent song Stranglehold. It sounded sooo good. Love that ADA MP1. It really does do one sound like you said, but it's sooo good at that one basic cool tone.
Great vid brother.
I dunno man....I can get some really cool non metal sounds on my MP1. I played Texas Country through it and no one thought it sucked. Of course, they may have said it behind my back. Lol😉
I did the morning show on a radio station in Waco, Texas and Ted Used to come by in his big ass truck to visit. He is really cool. His son played basketball for Waco High. Ted and his wife were at all the games. Rocco was a really good bball player.
In 1994, I drove 3 hours to Dallas and bought an MP1 with Fender power amp. I went to get my 4x12 cab I let a buddy borrow and he had moved 5 hours away all of a sudden. right after he pawned my cab.
Back to Dallas to get a Jackson 4x12 with red speakers. Got it all home and the power amp
Blew out. Had to wait a week, then 3 hours back to Dallas to get a Mossvalve. It all sounded great but without an owners manual(mp1 was bought used at GC) I couldn’t figure out why the footswitch wouldn’t work or how the overdrives worked together and no pre sets around with no internet. I lived in a town of 2,000 people with no one to teach me anything. Also, I am not very smart.
Traded it all. That gear is still making the rounds 16 years later in the nearby town I sold it in. I saw the Jackson cab in used music shop last year. A local music teacher was talking gear with me and sure enough, my old MP1 went through his hands a while. It touched many a life.
I have one now! Quadraverb from the pawnshop, JCM 2000 100watt head and a gangsta MG Cab which looks like a cross when combined with the head which is too wide. It’s supposed to suck but it doesn’t . My Uncle is a sarcastic Rush loving critic and he said it sounded great. Unless people are talking behind my back.🤔🤔. Tell me who...😂😂😂😂😂
Awesome! Just what I needed.
Am down the digital modeller rabbit hole ATM, trying to figure out what to get. What's put me off in the past is the flat sound I've heard running modeller into pa vs an actual tube amp in the room.
I'm curious though... What challenges have you experienced when transitioning from tube to modeller? And how did you get around them?
Thanks so much!
This question may have been answered before but I'm new at this. If I'm using my ksr preamp pedal in the fx return, how would I go about using my time based effects? I'm sure the answer is simple but I just want to make sure I'm doing it right before I blow something up. Thanks in advance
Thank you SO much for this! I am using a FM3 and this method for live use, but how can I adjust the overall output level on the fly? Outside of FM-3 Edit or diving in, there isn't an easy way since it is not using the amp master volume. Or am I missing something?
I am using multiple scenes and presets live which is why I want to adjust master on the fly.
Its cool.... tks ...SP - Brazil
I found out that in order to use a external preamp or even a Audio interface with Bias FX2 going into the amp return of a Blackstar head (HT Club 50 MKII), you need to plug a dummy plug in the guitar input. It seems that the send/return doesn't work if there's nothing connected to the amp input. Do you know what exactly is the dummy plug? pr any other work around? Thank you!
Question… I’m going to be using my 5150 as a tube power amp with my FM3, and have it come out of my Mesa 4X12. So all I do is just use an XLR to TRS cable to hook the FM3 into the FX Return on the back of the amp. Then in the signal chains I set up in the FM3, I just bypass the power amp part of whatever amp I choose, and leave cabs out of the chain as I’m using a physical cab. and then adjust output levels of the FM3. Am I leaving anything out? (Sorry I’m old school and a noob to modelers. I’m trying this as I’m sick of my messy pedal board with a billion pedals and patch cables crapping out on me during rehearsals.)
I'm using a Splawn Quick Rod 100 with Splawn 4x12 Celestion cream backs, and a Boss gt 1000, I still have some tweaking, but over all sounds pretty good.
Splawn make incredible amps!
I had waaaaaaayyyyyy too much fun once running the effects out of my PT-20 into the effects return of my EL34 green chassis Shiva. Basically, using the preamp of the PT-20 into the power amp of my Shiva. Fun times... 🤣
That's a really cool way to use the PT - the built in load would be handy for that!
Leon Todd
Yeah. Instead I have to plug in a small cab just to avoid blowing the iron... 🤣
Edit: Friedman Pink Taco... 🤣
Great video and use of the power amp applications. I would like some help :)
I have the JCM900 TSL100 and I am using both FX loops. I don't like the crunch/lead channels at all so I have plugged my G4 into the return of the crunch/lead to bypass the pre-amp which works fine however after doing my clean channel no longer has any signal.
How can I bypass the pre-amp on the crunch/lead channel yet still use my clean channel and FX loop? Do I need to split my guitar signal so I run one into the G4 pedal and the other into the front of my amp so the clean channel still sees a signal?
Cheers
Yeah you'll need a splitter, otherwise the amp isn't seeing your raw guitar signal
Thanks Leon, thought that would be the case.
I really like the Video Idea since I often wondered what possibilities an fx loop can provide. That being said I've got a question. Can I run from an Amp fx send to another amps fx return to mismatch preamp and poweramp as long as both amps are connected to a proper load or is there something you would need to consider for this?
Yes, as long as they're loaded that works great!
@@LeonTodd Thanks so much. Since both must be loaded properly I guess wattage and style of amplifier (solid state or tube) won't matter either?
how would a sinvertek N5 plus sound thru that?
Do you turn the power amp modeling off on the fractal when you use this and or the 4 cable method? I've been using my hughes and kettner to run my fractal through but it is a total headache to make work right sometimes. When it works however it sounds absolutely amazing.
Yes. Well worth the setup IMO!
@@LeonTodd Absolutely
Could I plug a joyo zombie into my fx return on my marshall origin 50 head???
What if we want to use our head as a pre amp? Would you just connect the effect loop send into the power amp input?
I use this method but with a solid state power amp fed with a Strymon Riverside overdrive. Get decent results but can't quite capture that magic I'm looking for... Maybe if I resurrect my Dual Recifier 👀
Doooooo iiiiiiiit!
Try one of the Peavey Transtube amps. Still solid state, but convincingly tube-like.
Hi Leon, is the loop in the Molecular a passive/insert loop like Nik normally does in his amp's? Or did he put an active loop into it?
i'm trying to connect the output (monitor) of my audio interface to the fx loop return of my amp, which is a Blackstar ID:Core Stereo 100, but nothing happens. I use Bias FX 2 on my Mac to process my signal, and want to send the processed signal out through my amp. Isn't this the way to do it?
What type of amp are you using and what sort of cable are you running?
@@LeonTodd i have a Blackstar ID:Core Stereo 100 watt, which has dual inputs for the effects return. i just tried using two 1/4" guitar cables from my Motu M2 audio interface, connected to the monitor outputs, and then ran straight into the amp effects return. my guitar is connected directly to the audio interface only.
I've got a 6505+ and also a line 6 stomp and HX effects pedal. So If I wanted to use the power amp of my 6505 I would plug my stomp into the of my effects loop and it wont mess anything up?
Should work a treat!
Just remember to turn off the cab and power amp simulation otherwise it may sound like poop
Thank you guys 👍👍
I appreciate taking time to help and I'll let yall know how it goes 🎸🔥
I have the helix rack. Not using it a lot. But I put into return input of a tube amp and I actually keep the cab and amp sims on and since it’s only going thru a 1x12 it sounds fine. I do prefer to add my own dirt pedal though before an amp block. Same with the atomic amp. If I turned off the cab sims it sounded bad. Read on the internet about a lot of others saying the same thing. I do think the helix rack and Axe FX should come with power like the kemper.
I particularly like this method and line in method for my solid state amps that preamps sound like poop, or i wouldnt really use them otherwise and just play on my tube heads, can work out sort close to a tube head with modellers so atleast those heads arnt sitting around useless :D
How do you connect FM3 into the amp?
So you plug your guitar in the preamp then plug the output of your preamp in the return of your head and nothing else?
HEY LEON! greetings from Portugal.
first of all, i follow your videos all the time , and i want to say thanks for all the information about almost everything about guitar…
well, i`m new in the modeler world, and kinda newer with a ax8 … i just bought one second hand… and i have to say… i´m mesmerized with this thing. it sounds like a real amp , no doubts about that... but, whats the better way to used it with a real amp configuration? im actually playing with a laney iron heart 60w... and it sounds killer, if you haven't tried one, go try one , its really good.
so… this leads me to my question… about the power amp section on the ax8... i just can find anything out there about this information... i mean... there are some ifo, but... it doesnt tell me waht i need to know… so, its really a big of a deal to keep the power amp simulator on the ax8 ON all the time?i mean , any problems tone wise, weird stuff ? or its imperative to turn that off when played through a real amp?
I REALLY TRUST ON YOUR OPINION ON THIS... so, please let me know so i can move on and start to create music instead of ... tweak ,tweak tweak.... and search ,search, search... if you know what i mean...
well my friend, keep the good work, and hopefully, if you you see this comment, you can safe my ass here… hehe :p
and by the way… i`m sorry my English hope you understand it…
thanks for your time.
S.w.666
Could you run fx out of say a 20 watt lunchbox into the power amp of a 100watt head you have?
Yes, both amps need to see a load of some variety though
@@LeonTodd thanks for the reply yeah I ended up trying it this morning. I hooked up the Marshall dsl20hr head to the power section of my Mark 4 and hook the mark for up to the tone kaptir X and the Marshall head to a 1 by 12.
It really wasn't that cool LOL
Voice to text 🤷♂️
Can you run another amp head into the effects loop?
You can take the fx send of another amp and run it into the fx return of another - however both amps still need to be connected to a load of some sort.
For using the pre amp in the return of an amp the cable must be instrument or speaker?
The only place you need a speaker cable is from the amplifier's speaker output to the speaker cabinet
Hi Leon, can you tell what settings you were using in the ADA?
Both drive controls at 3.5, bass at 6, mid -8, treble 4 and presence 8
@@LeonTodd Thanks Leon. I will try on my ADA Mp1. Stay safe.
Didn't metálica use a marshall pre amp and mesa power amp on master of puppets or vice versa? I have two 100 watt amps with effects loops so presumably i can use the kettner pre amp with trace elliot power amp. He didnt explore that here but i assume it works.
Mark IIC+ slaved into JCM800 power amps.
👌🏻
I thought you lose the eq and volume of your amp when you run a preamp into the FX return. How are you still adjusting the presence?
Presence is a power amp control
@@LeonTodd Right, but I thought you lose amp control of EQ, presence etc when you run something into the fx return of the amp. Am I missing something?
@@sbrave you lose anything that controls the preamp, because you're bypassing the preamp, so on most amps that means gain, bass/mid/treble
@@LeonTodd and presence, right?
@@sbrave no. A true presence control is part of the power amp circuit.
This is worth reading
www.fender.com/articles/tech-talk/be-in-the-moment-the-presence-control-explained
Ok great but what are the connections?
I have guys telling me that this setup may damage the tube amp- is that a thing????
I haven't owned any axfx stuff but it always sounds great when I hear it. I have owned various helix products and in my opinion it never sounds as good as the axfx.
Am I just doing something wrong or has anyone else noticed this. The helix stuff has this issue for me where it always sounds fake once you start adding gain. Specifically lead lines are the worst. Rhythm sounds that are gainy can sound passable and sometimes pretty good but once I go for a lead I just hate the way it sounds and feels under my fingers. With that said I haven't tried 3rd party IR's at all. Also the axfx seems to take pedals really well and realistically to my ear while the helix stuff has mixed results.
Any help or info or discussion would be greatly appreciated. If anyone has used both helix and axfx what do you prefer sound wise and why.
Jon Pearson thanks for the response. I will try downloading some IR's and seeing how it goes. Thanks man.
I see you still rather play Lay It Down your way ;)
Guilty as charged!
I do the same thing with my ADA MP-1.
Long live the Mp-1 !
Once again....Greetings from Detroit Michigan area and would hope/love to see you here someday "D" (Dustin)
Why doesn't this work on my Bogner Uberschall??
What's going on?
Does the uber have a switch that defeats the loop perhaps?
@@LeonTodd Yes sir and it defeats the whole amp in fact Mutes it. It's my friends amp and he has no clue what it could be. I had no problems on my old Diezel VH4.
Love your channel btw
Thanks for responding
I'm just here for Leon to lay down the chainsaws.
4cm with HX stomp swapping in whatever amp model from the HELIX is fantastic. Sometimes swap in via a loop another amp loaded down with a reactive load or just it's preamp. Endless options all sound amazing with the right power amp 🤘
So good hey!
Not being nitpicky but the 906 is crazy better than the 609. See if you can swap up
It would be really interesting to see you do an A/B comparison of the Atomica preamp from the FM3 through the power amp and cab like you did in this video with the tube preamp from the molecular through that same power amp / cab.
For those that think amps are done and I’m not an old guy who can’t try something new. Look right here. Who still has tube amps. 🤔 hmm. If you can afford to keep both. Keep both. And yes I have both saved up but no way am I getting rid of my amps and pedals. The guys that do seem to eventually buy amps back. Not all, but a lot. Or as I said keep both.
How are you all Australian ?
Marshall DSL 20 watt head into a Blond Fender 200 watt Tone Master
Did this work? How did the dsl preamp sound through a different power amp?
No matter how many turns and more turns you give it, a 100% tube sound is superior to any imitation or emulation. It's like a synthetic leather jacket and a real natural leather jacket, do you understand me? They look the same, but they are not.
Thanks Leon! I was struggling to connect my AX8 to my Mesa Lonestar Special. I tried the 4 Cable Method and it didn't sound good! This was way more easy haha.
1 Cable from Main Out to FX Retun on the amp and voilà!!
Plus you have the advantage of all the different models in the AX8!
Do you turn the cab modelling on or off? I'm curious to see how both sound through an actual guitar amp.
ferst
is ceriatone an amp manufacture from indonesia ?
Malaysia