Power Amps MATTER! How To Slave Amps Together, and The Difference Power Amps Make On Your Tone!
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- Опубликовано: 30 апр 2022
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Hey guys! As many have stated in the comments, the line out on the Soldano also includes the power amp and not just the preamp signal. While you can absolutely still slave the amp like this, I was wrong in stating it was just the preamp signal coming from the line out! I'll make a follow up video comparing the 3 amps preamps and power amps using the effects loop out of all 3 amps. Thanks!
Interestingly, you're lucky that you're attempting it with the new version as you couldn't do this with the old version given its post FX loop tonestack placement.
Line out means pre and power section.some amps has preamp out it is ok but some amps not .you must use send for pre signals to other amp return.
You also have to be careful with line/headphone out jacks on a lot of heads and combos because they will usually include speaker emulation. The 6505MH and Marshall Valvestates come to mind. Always check the manual, and be prepared to just use the Effects Send jack anyway -- which really sucks with the Valvestate, since the effects loop is before the preamp tone stack (at least on my VS100H).
Granted, this is more of an issue if you're just trying to capture the live amp's preamp signal via a DI and then run it through a power amp and cab sim VST in your DAW.
@@MrTekbow I was going to write this, that the EQ is placed after the Loop's Return and so he won't be able to use those knobs along with the Masters and Presence and Depth, I didn't know they moved the tonestack pre-Loop for newer versions, that's a good move, although it does make me wonder how does it change the tone of the amp now that the cathode follower buffer is actually loaded with a low-input-impedance EQ...
@@MrTekbow Interesting. I've never had a Soldano but I heard Mike on Tone Talk mention this fact. So I guess with the old version you had to use the line-out to slave it.
Thanks so much for doing this as always. The reason the Rectifier had that sound was; You have to adjust the orange channel's presence knob anytime you use use your effects return to slave a different preamp/pedals. It is 100% the voicing of the Rectifier power amp section. Orange presence is at the end of the circuit along with the output knob. Makes all the difference in the world when running effects pedals as the preamp too. Also always have a rectifier set on green(for those with a green) or orange(on the 90s recto) with the channel cloning set to normal. You did, but I'm just telling those who don't know that.
Perfect timing, I've been messing with running the preamp of my Mesa Mark Five 25 through my Peavey Valveking 100's power section and getting some really crushing sounds. Definitely worth checking out. Great vid!
I like crushing !!🤘🤘
Isn't that similar to what Metallica did for the black album?
@@kristopherguilbault5428 yep they ran a Mark IIC++ (modded) through a Marshall JCM800 (also modded)
This is the kind of vids I enjoy and look for. Trying to get different tones by combing gear! Love it, man! Thank you!
You can also use the resonance and presence controls of the amp your using for the power amp to further dial in the tone
I really like your videos man, you're doing a really good job. Your videos usually get to the point quick. We play a different style, but have a really similar picking technique. Doesn't seem like much, but you get it as close as it can get in my opinion, at least for me.
Awesome, glad to hear it man! Happy to have you here
Use the FX Loop send of the head you’re using as a preamp, and leave it on standby. The preamp always works on standby, and you don’t risk its power section.
I didn't know that , i will try it some day
Cool video. I bet if you did side by side the slo and peavy have very similar power sections, the peavy is a tad more saturated in the low end. But if I’m not mistaken, when using the power section only of a dual rec, it helps to switch the amp to Vintage Orange mode and the channel cloning switch set to Normal. Then the power amp will have a more balanced sensitivity to other preamps.
I also on tube rectifier amps take out the tube and replace them with a solid state plug in kinda like how most genders come from the factory. Tube rectifiers get too sloppy sounding especially at higher volumes. It’s surprising how many people don’t know that most rectifiers are solid state. I once had a Mesa Dual Rectifier and got rid of it and replaced it with a Boogie DC-5 which had ss recs in it. I absolutely loved that amp and still wish I had kept it. I own 60’s Bassman stacks, Marshall super leads, Soldano, VHT Special 6 Super, Blankenship 59 bandmaster clone, Marshall bluesbreaker, Peavey Classic 30, 72 Bandmaster head, Masco, Orange AD30, Jet City 2x12 piggyback, and very few of these amps make me as happy as that Boogie DC-5 once did! There was something special about it. In the end though I always put in solid state rectifiers but as a rule of thumb I never but tube recs to start because that’s not really the sound that matches what I like so why start with a disadvantage....any sorry for the long rant/reply! Cheers happy 2024!!!
Thanks Kyle. Love it, man. Been doing this for a bit now. My favorite power amp section to slave so far is the peavey invective. That power amp section is just insane. Lots of cool combos to be had. Mix and match but as Kyle stated...be careful to have proper load!!!
A lot of fun for sure!
thank you so much! been trying to figure this out!!! Thanks again!!
Cool shit, dude. Thanks for an easy to understand demo, very well explained.
If my amp doesn't have a line out. Is it possible to use the FX send to make this work? Would I still need a load box?
Finally someone is really talking about the tonal effects of a power amp, atleast from what the title suggests.
I haven't watched yet but I'm excited, I've said for years the poweramp is a big part of an amps voice/tone and its not the same without it.
Which is why I won't invest in preamp pedal clones and Synergy stuff, it doesn't get the full character of the amp.
I ran my 6505 fx send into my JCM2000's return and noticeably different sound. Some would argue "it's the tubes" but you don't get that kind of diffence from tubes alone.
The JCM's poweramp had a cool effect where it had that warm, rich tone of a JCM but with the saturation and some of the voice of a 6505. Would definitely recommend.
Kyle, now slave them in a different order! Curious to hear the Recto slaved into the SLO power amp, this is a neat experiment, thanks!
This is something I only picked up recently but wished I had done years ago. I'm having a blast mixing SS and Digi preamps w/ tube power sections
Great video brother, had some helpful tips.
Thanks for helping clear this option up for us
Ahhh, something I was curious about since my Mezzabarba Trinity has a dedicated slave out. My old Crate solid state combo amps had something similar. One sounded too processed for my ears alone and the other was on the way out anyway so I went all tube. Don’t like the idea of redialing my sound that much, prefer dis/engaging a boost or cut switch so I can revert back quickly. Great video! Wondering what the preamp of the Mesa Dual Rectifier would sound like through the SLO and if it could be possibly more balanced without tweaking
.
1. Line out usually connected to the power amp, not a preamp. And poweramp can affect you sound.
2. You can just take off you power tubes instead of using loadbox.
I do this but run preamp out into the poweramp in on a combo so I can run 2 cabinets with different poweramps simultaneously. Makes for some really nice tones in the room for jamming.
It's surprising how harsh the Mesa is, knowing the 2:90 is always on the warm/dark side compared to other poweramps !
Good job, very interesting !
Yesterday I sort of inadvertantly slaved a power amp I have. I have a Revv 120 and the last pedal in the effects loop is a Stereo Reverb. So i plugged the stero out into an Orange Pedal baby 100 power amp and cab, and now I have twice the speakers going. I guess I did not expect the preamp to go through it too but it's pretty neat.
I've been wanting to do this for a long time but never have because amps are expensive. I have had a load box for years and just never really looked into it. I know what I'll be doing on my next 2 days off. Great video, man.
Hell yes, party on
Hey Kyle, you should do a SS vs Tube power amp comparison, I’m curious on the differences. Only found one good video that does this.
SLO into the 5150 had the best sound for me👌🏼
Another thing worth mentioning, is when using the Rectifier's effects return as a power section input, you will want to have the loop's mix control set to 100%, unless of course you have had it modded to a serial loop, in which case the mix will not be active anymore. So in summery: Set amp to orange channel (vintage gain), set cloning on back to normal, set mix control to 100%, set orange channel's presence knob to taste.
Yes, going to revisit as I realized I made a couple errors in this video. I will explore this for sure!
@@belligerentamateur So much to remember with those rectumfriers! Had a meltdown just a few days ago because my tremoverb would not give a signal when running straight into the return,,,,then I finally realized the effects-rotary on back was set for manual footswitching and my switch just wasn't plugged-in. Turned it back to auto rd/orange and my amp was "alive" again lol.
Dude that Les Paul is sick man,another great video ..
this is an awesome idea. need to try this with my mark v 90w to my 6505. that bottom end would be killer
10 years ago i was sending a Randall V2 preamp in the JCM800 2203 power amp..it was carnage
Love it! I’d say once compensated for, the Recto was my favorite.
Sweet! Gonna do a follow up shortly!
I run my out of my 50 watt mesa badlander into a b52 at100, i was going to sell my b52 halfstack after i got the mesa but then it hit me to try and slave it instead, now i have a 4x12 cab on each side of the room and balanced the volume for a full room of sound that you can't tell where its coming from, its absolutely brutal and shakes the whole room! Also the b52 has a resonance knob the gives that low end punch that you can feel in your chest, the mesa badlander just dosen't hit that hard and i was a little bit disappointed, but the mesa has a very clear and tight tone, now i have a great mix of the 2. Give it a try before you sell off your gear.
So running the preamp out to another power amp, Can you still play and hear the original amp? almost like a stereo rig? for instance, Can you play and hear the Soldano and Mesa both at the same time w separate cabs ( even though they are both using the preamp of the Soldano )
Yes, you could. If you use an ABY switcher you could split the pre-amp signal. One of the signals would then feed into the fx-return of the other amp and the other signal would feed back into fx-return of the original amp. That would use just 1 pre-amp, but both poweramps, each able to power a seperate cabinet.
This is kool to know. I never knew that this is how it worked adding more heads to your rig.
Watching this video has made me want to try taking the preamp of my Randall RG80 combo and slaving it into the power amp of my Bugera 6262 Infinium to see what kind of results i can get from slaving a solid state preamp into a tube power amp.
Great video...just found you. I have a question: I'm currently using an Axe FX3 into a Crown power amp. Now, me being something of a person who always seems to think about doing something a little odd, I'm considering getting a Hughes and Kettner Triamp MK3, and using the Axe FX solely as an effects processor. Now, I'd rather not lose the stereo thing I have going on (I'm using an oversized Boogie 4X12), so my question, knew I'd get there eventually, is this: Can I connect the H&K to the Crown? Now I'm not talking slaving, I want the full H&K goodness to be going into the Crown, that being used to provide the stereo, plus the volume, of course. Any ideas? I was wondering if the Red Box thing in the H7K would have anything to do with it. Thanks, Kyle.
I slave my peavey classic 50 to my peavey Windsor. This accomplishes a few things.
1: it gives the classic more headroom
2: it adds el34 flavoring, class a/ab texture, and resonance to the classic.
3: the Windsor itself is modded with the gain staging, it really rips, but with it being a 1 channel amp, I can't exactly switch to cleans when needed, and the cleans are literal trash. The classic has respectable clean and dirty channels, but the el84s make it super brittle and the headroom is respectable, but needs more beef if you ask me.
Kyle!!! Could you please make a comparison video where you run all the other preamps into the SLO power amp? I'd like to hear how the 5150 and dual recto sound through those godly SLO transformers!!
Yep!
Cool video! I'm looking to slave a Marshall VS65R but planning on either building the power section, since VS has a non tube power section or finding a cheap one oneBay. Any suggestions?; Don't want a whole new amp, just a power amp I can engage from the headphone jack to then run to power amp and then speaker.
the 5150 power amp put the mids in a really cool place. maybe a little tubby, but overall really cool. i wonder if putting the mesa into the soldano power amp would give us a more Rev D type vibe. i feel like i've always heard that the original recto's were just straight up SLO copies, and then got tweaked little by little.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you only need a load box if the power section on the "send" amp is tube. I have a hybrid amp (tube pre, solid state power) that I slave into one of my other amps and have never plugged the hybrid amp into a load box or speaker. Everything has worked just fine that way, but only because it's not a tube power section.
Hitting us with some Expire riffs, nice
the Recto has a parallel effects loop... not sure how much of an issue that is, but it could be.
Also i know the Recto on the red opens the tap on the power section. So you will notice a difference
switching channels (modern/vintage) in the power section
Subscribed on my way in bro. Had me at stacking amps lol
HELL YEAH
I had the same thing happen . I bought a amp and no foot switch and it said that one was included. Also my last order was a used Ibanez bass and it came with a crushed box with a big hole in the box. I opened it and I couldn't believe my eyes , their was a chunk of wood missing from the bottom of the body. I got it very cheap and it functioned fine so I kept it anyway . It was red and I had a big spot with white wood showing so I took a red sharpie and colored the wood to help hide it. Any way you are right their poor at packaging and ups and fed ex are brutal.
I would have liked to know what it would sound like if each amp had its own cabinets instead of the load box.
Holy shit @ how that sounded with the SLO going into the 5150's power amp. A lot of low end but still super tight and percussive, and if you like a darker tone than that's your jam all day every day.
Question , I have a JCM 900 50 watt and want.to combine my Line 6 flex tone HD stereo 2×150 watt Amp. How should I attempt if at all .? Thank you .
The main question I have remaining is if I would need a reactive load when slaving into a combo amp (Blackstar HT Venue Stage 60 2×12)...
I am looking at a couple of different amp heads that mismatch the combo's power rating, one undercuts it(Mesa Mini Rectifier) and the other exceeds it ENGL Poweball 2 100), and I am looking to make my rig more flexible.
Alternatively, I am also looking at a tube preamp pedal (Victory Kraken 4 preamp pedal) that has a true bypass... effectively turning my amp from a 3 channel into a five or six channel amp.
Instead of running a load box, could the slaved amp (using the fx send for the preamp tones) could you just leave the amp in standby? Unless the slo 100 specifically will not pass signal through it's preamp would've thought that would've been fine without a load of the power amp isnt on
Damn I wanted to hear the Mesa slaved into the 5150. A rectifier with a resonance control. 😂
?
Greetings o.
Great Video, thanks.
I have a question:
can I connect a lead from the SEND of a guitar amp into the Power AMP in of another amp, to use both?
Let's say from the send of a Fender Mustang GT 100 into the Power AMP in of a Fender Deluxe 112 plus?
Thank you and all the best furthermore.
Just one more thing, and I'm not sure the answer. If you just go out the SLO effects send would it lose it's presence and reso controls? I think it would. The SLO loop is line level too iirc that's what Soldano was saying on Tone Talk. I'm not sure if doing that would create a ground loop issue, but I don't think it would.
Sick video dude!
No line out , is the preamp out of the efx loop what's used in my case? Good info .
Very interesting indeed! Thanks for this vídeo, Very nice
Question is how to slave an amp like a Hiwatt to another Hiwatt... which doesn't have any line out or effects jacks on the rear panel - only 2 speaker jacks....
Does it matter what type of amp. I have the Evh 5150 iconic 80. Would it matter if I ran this to a solid state amp or would that not work.
One of the best examples (thought not metal) is Tom Delonge slaving a JCM900 into a mesa triple rec to get the dude ranch/enema of the state guitar tone
Can you slave together a solid state to a tube amp or vice versa. And is theyre. Limit to how many amps you can slave together. And what if my amp doesn’t have a line out
So the eq section of the slave is bypassed most of the time? Can you use an eq pedal if you want to run both amps at the same time?
If I slave an amp, for example, I have my orange micro dark, and I will send its tube preamp to the much more powerful poweramp of my marshall MG100DFX combo, so if I did this, can I also use the instrument input on the MG to run my mel9 through it (in theory I will have an orange tube amp tone going through the poweramp of the mg with the mel9 going through the clean preamp of the mg and the also through the poweramp). Will this work, or will I just blow the amp?
Hi. Whats the year of your amps? Thanks.
The preamp of the 5150 sounded quite superior to my ears. Great tone.
that just show how much a diference of the power amp desing makes ... yes you can copy a preamp but that power amp desing is huge step to sound good
Can you explain how people hook up 5 amps when making a wall? Is it possible that all of them work at the same time? At least the power amps?
Should we use instrument cavles or speaker cables when slaving
i thought each combination of heads sounded great fer different reasons. i think some certain single coil pickups may not have worked in those scenarios but the gibson humbuckers sounded great in every case depending on what sort of originals you mite be playing.
So my pick is
1-SLO
2-5150
3-anything else
4-Mesa
Really didn't like the Mesa haha too piercing !
Anyway, great content as always, thanks for sharing !
Can't the Soldano send a preamp signal while being in standby mode (not needing load) ?
Hi Kyle, maybe you mentioned this and I missed it, but what model of Les Paul is that?
Shit. I really want to try this out with my two amps, but I have to buy a load box, and those are pricey. are their any other alternatives to loadboxes?
I like to see various Synergy modules run into the power amp of a Marshall and compare it to the real amp
When slaving amplifiers with 2 different channel progressions, do you have to use an independent channel switching MiDi setup?
Example: use an EVH 515OIII 5Ow as your MASTER and an EVH 515OIII 15w Lunchbox as your SLAVE... since the MASTER has 3 channels and the SLAVE has only 2, do you need a MiDi setup to switch channels on both simultaneously? Or will the SLAVE receive the tone and channel from the MASTER, just using the power amps of the SLAVE?
Do all the heads have to be the same amount of watts to connect
the 5150 presence control kicks hard from 9-10 where you have it set its doing very little top boost , you should have shown us the full range adjusting presence and depth min to max to hear how they work as power amp slave those are 2 tone controls both the 5150 and slo share , also why not slaving the slo or 5150 with the recto pre ? the recto pre is basically a clone of the slo ! Would have been interesting , but you did demonstrate how they can be a bigger part of the final result then many may think.
Where do you plug in the power rectifyer
I def wanna try this. Funny enough the original soldano's poweramp was still the best imo though lol.
Thank you! 🤘
Nice LP!!!
So, just to be certain before I blow an amp…If I were to connect the first head to a cab instead of a load box, I could have two different cabs running on the two heads? Is there anything else I should be wary of?
That is correct, no issue there
What would be the smallest load box on the market?
Is it true that if using an FX send from one amp into the return of another the first amp would not require a load as there is no signal entering its FX return??
Nope, not true. Even though it won't technically be pushing sound from the preamp into the poweramp, you can still damage the transformer by having no load on the amp
Nice, but I prefer lighter gears for slaving. Van Halen's chain is great : full head - > loadbox - > fx - > ss amp -> guitar cab. You win super tone at lower volume, ss amp can be ultra compact, stereo is easy to manage, impedance rules can be tortured with unusual cabs combination.
The resonance and presence on the 5150 are the only knobs active on that one, as you probably already know, but you have them both cranked. That accounts for much of the overwhelming brightness from the Peavey on the first run. I would run them about half way on both. Not sure why the Mesa got so bright after the first run thru which sound proper at first. Also, where is the load for the Peavey when you're running the Mesa and vice-versa? You have them all 3 turned on at the same time. Please don't give any nonsense about have the standbys on because that would be 'plumb ridiculous'.
Maybe the rectifier into the sol since the rectifier is brighter
I've said this to some of my friends, but I think the SLO is the best of the Rectifier and 5150. It's smooth but doesn't have too much low end, but it's not overly bright. It's the best of both worlds. While I am a Rectifier nut and I recently tried my first REAL 5150 (not just amp sims. It was the Iconic and it fucks hard), I personally prefer the SLO-100 out of the three.
That being said here's my thoughts on the experiment.
SLO Preamp, SLO Power amp: Much more of a full package and definitely the middle ground between the 5150 and Rectifier.
SLO Preamp, Mesa Power amp: It keeps the lows of the SLO while getting rid of the upper mids. Keeps the lower mids and highs of the SLO. Also much raspier gain structure.
SLO Preamp, 5150 Power amp: Tightens the lows of the SLO and seems to get rid of a lot of lower mids focusing on the upper mids and bumping the high end a bit. It's much more modern but it feels like it's missing something. Also for some reason I feel the gain structure isn't as smooth as the SLO but maybe that's just me.
Know about this sine the 80's.
You mentioned having a load on your tube amp at all times orbit will blow the power section. I have known this for years but I made a mistake thevother day. I got away with it. Maybe just lucky? So I was testing my bugera trirec (took forever to get tubes for it) and I wanted to hear it in my good cab. So I unplugged it from my EVH 100W el34 and plugged it into my trirec. Played it for a while. Sounds great. An hour later or so I decided to play my EVH and forgot to plug the cab back in to it. Fired it up and started strumming.. no sound.. chased down pedal board cables.. no sound.. changed the battery in my guitar.. no sound.. OH SHIT THE CAB ISNT PLUGGED IN!!!!! I powered down, got plugged up, begged the universe to be okay. Turned it on and its fine...
My question here is, have you ever done something like this? Did it damage your amp? Is there a threshold of fuckery a good tube amp can handle? Or did I just get downright lucky as most amps will damage immediately? I just don't know how lucky I am or if tube amps can deal with it if you correct the mistake pretty quickly....
id love to hear your thoughts on this matter. Even if you're unsure.
I've done this many times. Only once did it bite me in the ass, and that was on a 1989 JCM 800 1959 Super lead. Ended up blowing a good set of USA EL34 power tubes. Big bummer. Otherwise, just replaced a resistor and new tubes, it was good to go. But yeah, luckily I didn't take out a transformer.
@@belligerentamateur okay yeah. Now that you say it, i think I've heard before that its the transformers that you really gotta worry about. I also think I heard that the evh transformers are proprietary. And since Eddie was at the helm of the project I would like to think they are rather robust in these amps. Tho I don't understand the science behind not having a load that does cause amps to fail, Its nice to hear im not alone in my mistake. Its also nice to hear you've done it a few times with only 1 problem. Not that I plan to make the mistake again, it just lets me relax about what I did thevother day a little better. Lolol
Just imagine, I get a cheap amp running well and sounding good only to blow up my really nice amp in the process. Lol that would be just my luck.
@@smeemusic What happens is that in the no load condition, the voltages on the tube side of the transformer can reach many kilovolts. If the voltages are allowed to rise unbounded, at some point the insulation of the transformer windings can't cope with such high voltage and breaks down, creating a massive short, arching and some other visual, olfactory and auditory spectacle, basically cooking the output transformer (tubes, fuses and some other components can let go too).
Kids don't use tube amps without a proper load attached to it!!
@@JohnWiku thank you for this information. I like understanding the fundamentals behind why things work the way they do. I'm sure this is a very layman's version of the full science but this is definitely helpful information right here! It sounds like this isn't a wear and tear issue so my one time mistake didn't chip away at the life of the transformers. Just don't make a habit of this.
I've been a tube amp user close to 20 years and this is the first time I made this mistake on what has been by far my favorite amp I've ever owned. I got lucky and I'm glad I didn't just stand there for 15 minutes trying to pump out high volume chugs. My amp is reliable. When I clicked it on and got no signal I knew there was a problem and started troubleshooting immediately. That have made all the difference in this case.
Hmmmm... the recto must get a lot of its high end in the power section. It would probably sound absolutely terrible with the 5150 power section
What no boosted 5150 into the Soldano power amp??
Essential viewing right here.
My man
The top on that Les Paul is killer.
Thank you! She's my baby
I’m thinking on slaving my 6505 into my dsl20hr
Dude... Your idea was good, but the Soldano's Line Out came from the power amp, not from the preamp. It's just a high wattage resistor with high resistance (10kohms or something ) with a potentiometer as line level. This is why the power amp controls (depth and presence) still works.
Going to make a follow up video comparing all the preamps/poweramps and correcting that error shortly!
@@belligerentamateur Test your Soldano fx loop to know what loop type your version have. Connect a P10 cable on return jack (with your guitar, or a preamp, or even only tap your finger on cable tip) and verify if the eq controls still works. If works, so your Soldano have the old loop (between 5th stage and eq driver). If not, so your Soldano have the new fx loop (between pre/eq out and power in). If your loop is the new version, so is easy to make the comparison.
Nice Les Paul bro..
What if you slaved a Koch, Wangs and Fuchs amps? Asking for a friend. Bahahahaha. Fun review as always.
so what do you use the POWER AMP in for??? I know I sound stupid but I dont want to blow something
I'm curious on this also. I will research it and get back!
Damn son thats my fav style of playing and sound !
YIS
I always call it folk metal lol cause i learned playing the full chords so im always playing the full chords even if im muting them we have similar hand placement bud !!
Why not use the effects loop out instead of the “line out” to bypass the power amp of the first amp? This way no load is needed on the first amp
You would absolutely still need a load on any of these amps if you use the effects loop out instead of the line or slave out. This does not defeat the power section of the amp.
Mesa killed in regards to shear brutality in the comparison... wow!
As others have mentioned, you've got this wrong. The line out is from the power amp at line level. You should have used the FX send, that's post preamp, pre power amp.
Going to make a follow up video comparing all the preamps/poweramps and correcting that error shortly!