This is kind of a full circle video for me. The only reason I found you guys was because I searched RUclips for a video on how to use two amps about 5 years ago. I had absolutely no idea about effects pedals, other than something like a zoom 505 or a digitech rp100. I had a pod xt live at the time and when I found you guys, it completely changed my life. Here it is 5 years later and I’m such a gear nerd, I have over 40 pedals, 9 guitars, 7 amplifiers, and I am so much more educated on everything guitar and gear related. You guys are and have always been the best guitar and gear related channel out there, bar none. Love you guys, and keep on doing what you’re doing!
I have to use a phase select block in my Quad Cortex when I use 2 amps W/D, and when I use my Chroma Console (with stereo outs, go figure) I have to use a humdinger in order to switch the phase as well.
Once you figure out the polarity and the ground lift to have no hum. There's nothing better than ( I call it ping ponging) a good chorus, delay, or an ambient type of effects. But it can be difficult. You must educate yourself. It's incredible. You guys did a great job.
I've always avoided the ground/earth loop by having both amps plugged into the same power strip/bar so that they are on the same ground potential. My understanding is that the hum actually comes from two amps being connected to different grounds which usually have slightly different ground potentials, and then when the loop is made, current will flow from one ground to the other through the amps, and that gets amplified as hum. Having them on the same ground greatly reduces this so that I haven't had hum problems by just using a pedal to split the signal. I happen to be lucky that what comes out of both amps is in polarity too.
Nice addition of a simple way to bypass the dangerous and humming ground problem! I've been eyeing a triple-socket, heavy extension cord from the workshop for getting amp and pedals powered quickly with only one cord to plug in when I want to practice. (I always unplug from the wall when I'm not playing.) Your input adds a reason beyond simple, one plug convenience. Will be mindful to not overload the wall outlet with the items plugged into the triple end.
Learned everything I know about two amps from this show. Biggest mistake I made was flipping polarity on the gig rig to get the amps in sync and then going into a stereo reverb pedal (Boss RV500). Since the two signals going into the pedal were out of phase, the reverb volume was almost non existent. I thought something was wrong with the pedal. Once I figured it out, my best results came from doing everything on the board including going into stereo pedals and then putting a humdinger on one of the stereo outputs only. That way I could kill hum and flip polarity if necessary. Have a great weekend.
I only play in the house, and have always used two amps. When people ask "why"?, I answer "Why not? I've got 'em!". And yes...such a big sound with minimal volume! Someone went through all that trouble to make the amps...we should use them!
Same here. I actually have three amps, but one isn't turning on right now. Hope it's just a fuse. But to your point, two amps sound huge! I'm currently playing a tweed deluxe clone and a handwired AC15 split, and I'm only just over 2 on the deluxe volume and less than halfway up on the AC15 and that's plenty lound for a rehearsal with drums, bass, and keyboards. Almost too loud. It's crazy how big it sounds for two small amps.
@@jamiebarr9810 I have a different basic rig that I call the Cerberus. There's other stuff, the Brotary and the Echo Array and cetera, but the basic Cerberus is one small amp running a little Vibrato, and two larger amps running dry through a Panning Tremolo. ATM I have a little bedroom rig with one twenty Watt Virtuoso and two thirty Watt Conquerors. Sometimes I run different sorts of Amps off the Tremolo, I am getting a UL760 that will sort of match Tremoloing against one of my Defiants, over a wet Conqueror. And the farm is hopefully about to thaw out enough to get out there and hook up the big iron. 👍
@@joeschlicht Yep! I really look forward to Alone Time in the house as, yes, the volume gets significant quite early....and that's before boosted with a compressor!
Excellent episode once again chaps. For anyone hasn't tried this, it's a game changer. Another thing - the more diverse sounding amps you use, the wider the sonic spectrum - for example I use a Roland JC120 with a Kustom 100. Another thing - as Mick rightly mentioned - it doesn't have to be TPS wet/dry e.g. I use separate fuzzes on each signal path - wet/dry fuzz is a new dawn! Cheers :)
Struggled with an old nemesis doing wet dry setup at one point. No one could explain what was going on. Was dealing with the latency because it wasn’t dry through. Glad they fixed that.
I am still very much an Absolute Beginner on this, after watching the really in-depth vids, I really needed this! Next trick - find a suitable amp for home playing to match with a Blues Jr and add a Humdinger to my board!!! Much love, guys.
Great episode. I've been using your videos for a long time to play around with my own hybrid stereo and wet/dry/wet rigs in my spare bedroom studio. While I was aware of issue of polarity and phase, this really helped me understand some problems inherent in different pedals and why issues of signal routing might not always be as simple as flipping the polarity. Thanks for sharing your wealth of knowledge with us.
I went from a tps wet dry 2 amp setup to a 3 amp tps wdw, and now I’m tinkering with a 6 amp monster wet wet dry dry wet wet setup with different effects going to different wet amp combinations and different drives to the dry amps, what a rabbit hole I stepped into
Hi Mick, hi Dan. I've recently been watching your episodes on wet/dry and wet/dry/wet rigs, so this episode has come at the right time and is the icing on the cake. Definitely going to try it out. I've pretty much always had a couple of amps, but only ever used one or the other as my "Go to amp"... but from now on it will be... "Go two amps!!"
Yes, this video is absolute gold! I'm an EE and and an old guy and have been playing guitar for 50+ years. What I really think is great is your clarification of polarity versus phase. The terminology is mixed up in many peoples understanding and how products don't always use the terms consistantly. And in this world of awesome digital effects pedals, the analog dry through issue is now becoming a common issue. I recently bought an Eventide H90, which I think is quite incredible. But in a recent episode, I heard Mick say the lack of analog dry through made it a non-starter. I now understand why this does not work in a "TPS Dual Amp config". The H90 is still awesome, but not in all configurations. Eventide claims that they had more phase problems with with analog dry through and therefore did not implant this in the H90... Super great episode!
Indeed. And there’s merit in Eventide’s argument when you get into some of the incredible stuff it does - pitch shifting especially. But exactly as you say it’s all about context.
Beautiful video. I do not know how you packed all of that knowledge into 35 minutes. Fantastic process to clearly demonstrate the pitfalls, and the audio clearly reveals the problems with the "out of phase" sounds. An epiphany moment for me with regards to analogue dry-through.
Gentlemen, very well done! This is how all of your shows should be. Concise, unlike my comment. This felt much shorter than 35 minutes and I re-watched a few parts. I'm now subscribed. I've been running two amps for years with the Fulltone True Path ABY switcher. It has a "Phase" switch. Nope, it's polarity. Thanks for the clarification. I work for an electric company in the US and have studied phase and I never realized it was actually polarity. Now you need to explain to everyone vibrato vs tremolo. I had that wrong for years too.
My current favourite rig is using a fender 1963 tremolux with a little trem and a deluxe reverb reissue verb at 2. Meris lvx in stereo, suhr riot mini for heavy, lovepedals cot50 always on od, ramble fx twinbender fuzz down for glassy single coil tones. You guys have been such a inspiration for all of us.
Congratulations from me. This very detailed video is very useful for young people. Unfortunately I have to say, many of them don't want to KNOW. KNOW or ask someone who knows. Our generation, experimented, exchanged opinions. It's not shameful NOT TO KNOW, BUT it's sad and stupid not to ask someone who has thighs. Well, I'm not going to write "User's manual".......This is just A great appreciation on my part, as with care and simplicity you try to spread your knowledge related to the equipment necessary for a musician-guitarist. In this way "electric" music (rock, R/Roll, haeavy, blues, country, pop , etc.Continues and remains ALIVE still.(old, first, generation's guitarist. Ian Judas)
You finally convinced me to play with my polarity even though I thought I was in phase all the time. Well.. Turns out I was wrong! I used the inverter module on my zoia to flip the polarity, but once I found out I had to flip it I just swapped the two ends of the cable to my speaker.
Thanks for my T Shirt folks. You could not have made the experience any more pleasurable. Not to spoil any of the surprise details, but the best packing ever and the handwritten note was lovely. The shirt is such good quality too. Thank you.
Really interesting video. Mick and Dan always explain complex matters in clear and understandable terms. The examples really help to illustrate the points. Well done, guys!
Love the fact that while this isn't solely focused on bedroom playing, it does add an amazing depth to the sound that is hard to otherwise come by! My biggest issue here though is both my amps are solid state (not inherently bad, bear with me!) with lots of headroom. I boost into a low gain drive, and instead of more gain, I get more volume (and a bit more gain). I'm not driving the amp, pedals have high headroom, it's a an interesting "bedroom headroom" problem (to sort of steal Orange Amp's coined terms).Would love to see some episodes exploring bedroom tones (there have been a few over the years...)
cool episode! another big difference between phase and polarity is: polarity is not frequency depending. everything is just mirrored on the time-axis. out of phase is frequency depending. if the latency is i.e. 10ms which eaquals 100Hz, everything that is n*100Hz is amplified and everything that is 2n/(n+1/2)*100Hz is eliminated.
Love you guys. Quite apart from the subject matter at hand: started out on a Strat as a kid, spent years with Gibsons, came back belatedly to the Strat and realized it’s the most nearly perfect electric guitar ever invented. (Have and love a Tele as well.) I’ll have to try the two-amp ideas here. Thanks for your thoroughly enjoyable and informative channel.
Finally got around to doing wet/dry with my Fender Princeton Non Reverb and Laney Lionheart 2x12. The sounds are beyond words… thank you so much for the inspiration!
A well timed video. I just bought a Vox AC15C2 and I already owned a Fender GTX50. I was wondering how to use them together. A lot of this went over my head but at least I know what pitfalls to look for. I’ll check out your other videos to see if a deeper dive makes it click for me.
I clicked on the video thinking « an other video about this subject you covered so many times » but no, you really achieve something new in this video because your sound examples are so thoughtful and good sounding I could clearly hear the impact on the dry tone on all the examples !! A masterclass in that domain ;) Leo
I run a stereo rig and did understand about Polarity being matched so the speakers move as one, but I never knew that the pedals could cause a shift. My rig sounds awesome as-is, but now I wonder if it couldn't be even better ? You took an extremely confusing topic and made it much easier to understand..... Well Done !
Love this.. I have a fender and a black star combo and was thinking about running the two. Now I know how to do it properly. I’ve heard there can be issue, but no details about the issues.. Thanks guys!!
So glad I chose a Strymon Volante and Red Panda Context 2 for my TPS Wet/Dry rig before I understood the problem. Dumb luck! Thanks for the clear and concise explanation guys!
Long time viewer first time commenter, so thankful for y’all and your highly informational and educational videos. I’ve learned so much and have been able to put it into effect in my gigging rig. This video comes at a very fortuitous time as I’m in the process of yet another pedalboard makeover. Will definitely be digging into the specs of any potential pedals to join the party. I’ve yet to jump into playing out with a wet/dry or stereo rig but I love the idea of it, so keeping it as a potential option is always at the front of my mind. Once again, many thanks for your years of service. So much incredible knowledge offered up to us and I’m so very grateful. Cheers!
I love this show! I’ve watched every two amp show you’ve made and I learn something new each time. I’ve run wet/dry for about a year due to TPS. Analog dry through explains an issue I have with the Strymon Flint. The reverb is analog dry through but the tremolo isn’t. So when I use the reverb, it sounds great, but the tremolo always sounds off! Thank you! Lastly, I have the Humdinger and it is awesome. I had a Lehle Little Duel II, which was nice, but the Humdinger takes up less space, is less expensive and its buffer adds a clarity that the Lehle didn’t. I also have a Wetter Box coming in a day or two for more fun. Thanks again for your shows!
I play at really low volumes at home and honestly having 2 amps is a great solution. Lush full sounding vibes at lower volumes. Right now I am using the HX Stomp to manage it but before that it was a Radial Twin City which is a GREAT pedal.
This is one thing I realized…if at home you’d first think two amps will be double loud. But in reality having say 2 Roland Jc or whatever…you can get the volume very low, while still enjoying it! Also not bother anyone as much as pushing one single all louder. I don’t do stereo in the studio, but I like running stereo at home on two small amps! It’s quiet and just like listening to a stereo at home at tv volumes. Fuller and less volume to turn up.
After watching your video on wet/dry rigs years ago, I now use a Fender Super Sonic 22 with my EFX in the loop and a Fender Princeton Reverb for my dry side. I use a radial Big shot ABY box with phase and polarity. Sounds awesome!
Lovely video on the foundational fundamentals -- it was this channel that got me into TPS wet/dry (and w/d/w) years ago, and since then I've run into seemingly every conceivable problem not covered by this video -- we need a followup! On: 1. The difference between transformer isolation and simply lifting the ground on one leg of the split signal. "Ground lift" switches disconnect the SHIELD of the signal cable and expose it to all kinds of EMI/RFI noise that is often WORSE than just the ground loop hum. 2. How/whether it is possible to eliminate loop hum AFTER a stereo pedal that is only mono in > stereo out to two amps. MOST stereo delays/reverbs are actually mono (one channel) DSPs -- they sum the stereo input signal as part of the analog to digital conversion, which can create its own share of phase headaches! How do we, you know, ACTUALLY USE stereo-out pedals with two amps without hum? 3. The problems that are introduced if you send your isolated leg of the split signal through other pedal(s), rather than directly into the amp. This is especially troublesome because pedals dump their noise to ground through the cable shield and when you plug in an "isolated" ground-lifted signal cable with the shield disconnected, there is nowhere for that noise to go except into your audio path! So how do we get a split signal chain with different effects on both sides of the split (rather than just one) without any noise/loop hum? Does the isolated leg of the split ALWAYS have to go directly to the amp? These are the problems anyone who ventures down the glorious 2-amp path will inevitably run into, and sooner rather than later. Would LOVE to hear how you leg-ends deal with these scenarios!
1. Too complicated to worry about in rock’n’roll. Mick here. Dan has solved it on his latest gen GigRig products (they’ve moved away from transformers) but it’s something that’s never bothered me. And most shit //really// bothers me. 2. Just put the Humdinger, isolated side only on one output of the stereo pedal. Solved. 3. Been running wet/dry at 100-200 watts for years, and never had a problem with this because a) I use Dan’s power that is properly isolated and never has any noise and b) use good quality pedals that run silent on Dan’s power. The isolated leg can go through other pedals as well, as long as their power is isolated too. Hope that makes sense!
Really appreciate the reply, @@ThatPedalShow On point 1, pitfalls of a noisy city environment I guess -- I often wish I got to jam out in the country where the internet barely works! Sounds quite nice. Hi to Rosie! (and Dan, too). Thanks for the tips, Mick!
Thanks for revisiting this chaps. I don't have two amps, but i do have an amp with an attenuated output and i run it alongside a plugin "amp". My version of wet/dry, but a bit more attainable 😊
This is such a valuable resource, and so well done. Thank you! I recently switched to wet dry for live and boy did I have a hard time figuring out what pedals flipped the phase when active. Amps are a 64 AC30 and a 65 Vibrolux Reverb, wet side typically in the Fender with a DMM Flint VB2 and phaser. Dry side mjolnir vemuram jan ray and a scarab fuzz. Sounds massive live!
I thought my supro delta king 12 and marshall jtm studio sounded great out of my ua golden until I got a humdinger. Turns out that they'd been out of polarity all along but still sounded better than one amp on its own. Now they sound fantastic I've had to dial back the bass though. Thanks Dan for your brilliant splitter and thanks to both of you for all of the priceless advice.
Always used 2 amps live, Hot Rod Deville for clean and a peavey classic 20 combo on the preamp out from the fender to add some natural valve overdrive on top of the clean and have the sound engineer blend them on the PA. Best sounding guitar tone I've ever had.
Brilliant explanation. I was familiar with the basic earth loop and phase issues caused by using 2 amps but had never considered phase issues caused by digital latency. Nice one chaps!
Wow, that was excellent. Before watching your "Wet-Dry & Wet-Dry-Wet Amp FX Setups Explained video, I had a Radial Big Shot ABY - and I previously have split the signal at the end of my signal chain into two amps and left it at that - it simply beefed up the sound with delays and reverb going through both amps. It's fine but It's you mentioned, it can get a bit mushy with bigger delay/modulation effects. Splitting wet/dry (splitting before modulation/delay and reverb) seems to creates clarity - less mush and I feel it has a bigger sound for some reason. Really interesting. I use a vintage Deluxe Reverb (silver face) and Little Walter VG50 amp. Sometimes I use the DR with a Vox AC4 HW1 for a very different tone at smaller venues. Killer sound. Without you guys, I'd still be living in the land of Mushiness without knowing how much better it can be to split the signal wet/dry. Thanks guys.
Splitting is great to wet/dry! I have an ABY BABY I’ve tried at the very end, and then also as a split before effects. Wet/Dry…I use a Sky King(Fender circuit) and a Ampeg VT40 for the more distorted big parts. Sky King is wet/Ampeg only boost and distortions. I found the same as well! Having dual mono with both wet, can get mushy unless you can tap dance fast. What I like is being able to have a nice clean wet Fendery tone going on. Then when I want dirt, just tap B on my ABY…all effects are gone and I have a great beefed up tone. Personally, I don’t always run both amps on at the same time…even with wet/dry. Unless they are of similar cabs, and amps styles. It causes one amp to sound good volume wise, kicking in the second it’s too loud on stage. Then you turn both down and using one or the other….now it’s too low. I’ve settled on just A/B for now…but still run wet dry, as it’s way less pedal tapping. Also found I need far less dirt pedals this way. But for gigging purposes, I keep a lot of drives as I’m not lugging two amps often. Just for studio use, practice or a big show. But def the way to go is to split it wet/dry for more diverse sounds, and less tap dancing or using a very complicated routing system to program. A lot easier than turning off 3 stacked wet pedals, and then turning on your distortions for one amp.
Great show! Two Yamaha TRS 10. One an original and the other a "Classic". Lehle splitter. (phase canselling option) Dry signal in amp 1. Wet signal in amp 2. BIG sound in a small appartment.......! I´ve done this for years. Thanks to an early TPS video ........ Thanks Guys...!❤
I am set tup wet dry for the tube amps but when I can’t boot those up I also use the humdinger on a katana 50 and a THR 10c for low volume big sound. Make a huge difference to the experience with the digital stuff as well as the tube amps. Thanks to Mick and Dan for this awesome show.
I will just say what I use at my home studio and absolutely enjoy it tremendously! Wet-dry Egnater Tweaker 15 into a Jensen P12R and Quilter Superblock US into a Jensen Blackbird 100watt. Both 12". Oh my gawd what a lovely huge home friendly tone and volume!
Great vid! I had learnt most of this from your previous videos but it was great to have this as the focus, and to cover everything in one video. Really enjoy your guys' videos! Keep up the great work!
I did something similar but with a vox mini superbeetle (can’t afford the real thing and has it before getting the jc40). Best part is you can setup the jc40 as stereo for a WDW setup
Gustavo Cerati (from Soda Stereo) used that combination of amps, beautiful. Listen to the song Adios, I love the guitars in that song. Can be seen in the mtv unplugged too.
You can also go wet/dry/wet with that combo: Use a humdinger or similar to split after drives and any mods you want to go everywhere. Send the dry to the AC15 and the isolated out of the humdinger to your wet effects, running stereo into the JC40. I prefer to kill fry into the wet amp but see what you like more!
Boys, you can reverse the polarity of one cable too. Needs a specially made cable where you switch +/- polarity on the cable end of one side. I must add, sorry, that this can happen with manufactured cables and you'll be chasing your tail trying to find the problem . . . until you use another cable that you KNOW is wired properly. You can then mark that cable as reversed polarity and use it to remedy reversed polarity issues where a single cable would make it an easy fix.
Guys, I really needed this show, ‘cause I’m setting up a new rig! You guys are life savers! Cheers. P.S.: Mick, still can’t get over the fact you had to part ways with that Pelham Blue SG, such a great fit, sounded amazing in your hands, those instances where one bonds deeply with an instrument are quite rare.
This was incredibly helpful, especially as the owner of a Belle Epoch Deluxe! Currently on a gear-purchasing hiatus but I could see both dual mono and wet/dry both being investigated fairly early on once the acquisitions start flowing again. Cheers guys!
This was very helpful, even after watching you guys since you started. I'll have to watch a few more times to consider each of several pedals in my chain, and if they are holding me back from greatness.
This just came to my mind, but not having a good stereo in my house, I have small radios. One time I noticed that when I turned on one small radio, another was still playing, tuned to the same station in the other room (very nearby). It sounded AMAZING. Just combining the tiny frequency ends that each 2-3 inch speaker didn’t share made for a really full and pleasing tone. So I think combining two (or more) already good sounding 12 inch speakers must be amazing. I’m ready.
Great video. I want to try to do a wet dry setup, but it has always seemed too much for me to deal with at the very outset because I don't understand polarity and phase. This is the exact kind of video I needed to give this a shot and feel like I have a chance at success.
Excellent video as always. Thank you for taking the time to demonstrate that lag caused by digital effects owing to A/D and D/A conversion - which I'll come back to later. One thought re polarity and phase. It seems you are mixing cause and effect here a bit. A switch in polarity (using the 2 speakers example) causes a phase shift of exactly 180° between the sound waves coming out of the speakers. We all understand 180° as a flipping over or half turn. So we name that effect we hear when we change the polarity as a 'flip in the phase'. Changing the polarity can occur in many parts in the signal chain, as you demonstrate. What you can do with a digital stereo delay to get a TPS wet dry effect and avoid that annoying phase shift owing to the A/D conversion is to use a L/R stereo delay but set the effect mix of one of the channels (e.g Right) to 0 and this goes to your dry amp. This way the 'dry' component of both channels is still in phase. Obviously not as ideal as analogue dry through but a compromise that works.
In a world of super high end boutique gear, the magic box that makes TPS wet/dry possible is really affordable,I have a Humdinger on ( actually hiding under)both of my boards ,and can say that I expect them to stay there despite every other Pedal getting swapped out over time- many thanks👍🎸
Great episode!! You guys ever do a episode about the difference in tone between 8/16ohm speakers- been down this rabbit hole lately, bought the same speaker in both ohms and I swear there’s a difference, am I losing it?!
Great video, this stuff is hard to explain and takes years to wrap your head around. Two terms I think were (understandably) missing in this video, from a sound engineer POV, were 'Phase Cancellation' and 'Comb Filtering'. Phase Cancellation is what you hear when one source is out of phase with another. Different degrees of out of phase and how similar the sources are will determine what frequencies are cancelled. Two exact same signals with one 180 degrees out is complete cancellation. Comb Filtering is what you hear with Mako D1 going to one amp. Comb Filtering is frequency cancellation when there is a millisecond delay on one of the sources. The amount of milliseconds will determine what frequencies are cancelled (_hz and every octave of it)
I stared using two amps a couple of years ago after watching you guys for awhile. I can't recommend it enough. As an audio engineer I love having a ton of control over the mix of my wet effects in my overall sound. I paired a Goodwood Audio Interface (sorry Dan) with my board to allow me to go to two amps without any of the gremlins that come form running two amps. But it also lets me run my signal in mono if I want to just use one amp.
I’ve always run stereo, just in digital. I recently got a tiny terror and it changed my life and I’m looking for another similar small amp right now! Thanks for the video!
Well, don't I feel dumb. You mean to tell me I could've been doing this the whole freaking time? I just tried that amp to amp method and Holy Shit it works. Thank you so much guys! I guess I got super lucky. No phase problem and no hum.
I love using two amps. lately I have been running an orange tiny terror and orange ad 5 both with 12ay7 in the first positions. just a glorious sound. I use a Lehle dual sgos to manage evrything, works great.
I don't know how schools grade in the UK, but man, I focused and I get an A. Lots of moving parts, but you guys nailed this. Very helpful. Laughed out loud at 29:16
wow, thats so cool! and a nice side effect was; there was considerably less AC hum on my one amp that usually is a bit noisy with hum. SWEET! Thanks dudes!
Great video. One thing I did think is linking the two amps with the two inputs to the Deluxe - that IS essentially using a Y-cable. Those two input are passively linked together (admittedly with a couple of resistors) so plugging into both inputs is pretty much the split in the Y-cable. It doesn't really make any difference to the reasons NOT to do either method but just thought we all like information.
Years ago I had a Fender Princeton Chorus. It had a mono FX out and stereo FX return. Using a "Y" cable, one side fed directly back into one side's power amp, the other ran to a separate chorus+delay then back into the second side. Worked great. Not the greatest amp in the world. But for what I needed then, it worked fine and gave me the Dry/Wet-Dry stereo (which is why I used an external chorus instead of the built-in stereo.
Ive bought and sold a few really nice amps over the past few years (only ever owned one at a time) amd recently got "the amp", a Hamstead Artist 20 and have been very happy with it. Now after seeing Dan demo a 2 amp set up at Pedal Empire in Brisbane in December and now this video, im on the lookout for another amp 🤦♂️🤣 I have a UA Golden which has analogue dry through so guess ill try that method first. Thanks Dan and Mick for spreading the word of the lord (the tone lord)
Great ep., thanks lads. Wonderfully pragmatic but still entertaining. I was running my Custom '68 Deluxe RI and SV20H at the rehearsal studio the other day and hit the polarity switch on my Radial AB/Y just for the hell of it only to be met with more output. I thought I was stupid for not hearing it in the first place so it's reassuring to be told by the gear aficionados that it could've happened to anyone.
You could put the wet effects through the effects loop on the second amp with the dry signal going to the input of both amps via a ABY then you can keep using your non dry through wet effects. This is what I do and works really well.
I've never deep dived into effects, but recently got a zoom g2xfour, and now I'm loving learning the different pedals. Finally tried some stereo, and its cool that it has stereo chorus and delay, but now I'm curious about what else can be done live with stereo setups, lol! No wet dry out for my pedal though. 🤔🤔
Epic. This vid made me want to comment. I've been hearing you talk about 2 amps for a bit so I tried it a few weeks ago. Wow ! It's probably the most jaw dropping enhancement to guitar I've tried. My second amp is a crappy practise amp I had lying round so it almost doesn't seem to matter what it is. Just blending in a different sound and having some width is superb. My only wonder is it less focused in a band situation where perhaps a tight focused sound may fit in better with the rest of the band
Shoutout to Empress Effects that have a built in transformer on the right side output on several of their stereo pedals. A very nice feature. So if you have one of those last in your chain you can use two amps with no ground loop issues. (And if the pedal happens to be a Zoia you can flip polarity as well if bredde.)
Guys! Love your show and the knowledge you both have. Always a pleasure to see new episodes! I'm surprised you don't ever mention Lehle switchers and their other top devices. ( not because they are german i hope.. 😅 ) I've been playing two amps for years and their P split is THE solution for me! Simple to use , affordable, built like a tank and no hum or phase problems while both amps can be earthed. Check it out I'd say..!
Two amps is the best 🙂 For owners and lovers of the older Nemesis, solution #3 is the way to use it in tps wet/dry: For me the Nemesis is always on with anything from doubling to long delays, so I've got it set with the internal routing options to wet/dry, This gets you the dry signal in one output and wet+dry in the other, the mix control now only affects the wet output (which can go from all wet to all dry). Both outputs are in phase since the dry signal is also converted to digital. The difference in sound in the dry signal is hardly more than any buffer would do, total latency is not noticable. I use a loop switcher and send the dry signal to an isolated output with a phase switch, but if your amps are in phase all you need is to avoid the ground loop problem (I've used gadgets for this but if a ground loop is the only problem, you can achieve the same through cutting the ground in one end of a regular cable). Used like this, I don't miss the analog dry-through at all. There's limitations to this solution, I can't move the delay around the signal chain, run it in parallell etc but I never do (got other pedals for that 😊). With all that said, Kudos to Source Audio for making a great pedal even better, if my original Nemesis breaks down I'll happily upgrade to the new ADT version!
The phase issue is crazy. This is one of the most informative and education videos I have ever seen for music. How to tell if you don't have phase shifting and need to purchase something? Is that even a thing?
I have been using a strymon deco to split my signal for a few months now. I am wanting to try a dedicated ABY splitter now to see the difference. Biggest issue I've had is I use a Friedman Smallbox and Twin sister, and the stereo effects loops volumes are different, so I have had to use a volume pedal on the smallbox to lower the signal or else it spikes the reverb/delay volume on my Twin sister, and then raise the master volume on the Smallbox to bring the sound back up.
![Would You Run Your Overdrives & Boosts Like This? [Three Gain Stages & The Truth]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/qBuNBRFkp3c/mqdefault.jpg)
This is kind of a full circle video for me. The only reason I found you guys was because I searched RUclips for a video on how to use two amps about 5 years ago. I had absolutely no idea about effects pedals, other than something like a zoom 505 or a digitech rp100. I had a pod xt live at the time and when I found you guys, it completely changed my life. Here it is 5 years later and I’m such a gear nerd, I have over 40 pedals, 9 guitars, 7 amplifiers, and I am so much more educated on everything guitar and gear related. You guys are and have always been the best guitar and gear related channel out there, bar none. Love you guys, and keep on doing what you’re doing!
I have to use a phase select block in my Quad Cortex when I use 2 amps W/D, and when I use my Chroma Console (with stereo outs, go figure) I have to use a humdinger in order to switch the phase as well.
Same here😂😂 and to make things worse, UA makes some killer looking and sounding pedals at 400 ma each …and then there are the Gigrigs.🤘🏼👀💵💰
Once you figure out the polarity and the ground lift to have no hum. There's nothing better than ( I call it ping ponging) a good chorus, delay, or an ambient type of effects. But it can be difficult. You must educate yourself. It's incredible. You guys did a great job.
I've always avoided the ground/earth loop by having both amps plugged into the same power strip/bar so that they are on the same ground potential. My understanding is that the hum actually comes from two amps being connected to different grounds which usually have slightly different ground potentials, and then when the loop is made, current will flow from one ground to the other through the amps, and that gets amplified as hum. Having them on the same ground greatly reduces this so that I haven't had hum problems by just using a pedal to split the signal. I happen to be lucky that what comes out of both amps is in polarity too.
Your right about everything plugged into 1 socket. They don't mention it maybe because they won't sell as many humdingers? Lol
Nice addition of a simple way to bypass the dangerous and humming ground problem!
I've been eyeing a triple-socket, heavy extension cord from the workshop for getting amp and pedals powered quickly with only one cord to plug in when I want to practice. (I always unplug from the wall when I'm not playing.) Your input adds a reason beyond simple, one plug convenience. Will be mindful to not overload the wall outlet with the items plugged into the triple end.
"Why?"
"Because it's Awesome!"
Roll credits...
Really, today's question is, "How can you NOT use two amps?".
You are joking?
As someone who IS into this, it WAS gold! Thanks, gentlemen!
Learned everything I know about two amps from this show. Biggest mistake I made was flipping polarity on the gig rig to get the amps in sync and then going into a stereo reverb pedal (Boss RV500). Since the two signals going into the pedal were out of phase, the reverb volume was almost non existent. I thought something was wrong with the pedal. Once I figured it out, my best results came from doing everything on the board including going into stereo pedals and then putting a humdinger on one of the stereo outputs only. That way I could kill hum and flip polarity if necessary. Have a great weekend.
This was so over my head, but there is nothing better than two people being passionate, educational and funny!
I only play in the house, and have always used two amps. When people ask "why"?, I answer "Why not? I've got 'em!". And yes...such a big sound with minimal volume! Someone went through all that trouble to make the amps...we should use them!
What two amps do you use?
Same here. I actually have three amps, but one isn't turning on right now. Hope it's just a fuse. But to your point, two amps sound huge! I'm currently playing a tweed deluxe clone and a handwired AC15 split, and I'm only just over 2 on the deluxe volume and less than halfway up on the AC15 and that's plenty lound for a rehearsal with drums, bass, and keyboards. Almost too loud. It's crazy how big it sounds for two small amps.
@@jamiebarr9810 I have a different basic rig that I call the Cerberus. There's other stuff, the Brotary and the Echo Array and cetera, but the basic Cerberus is one small amp running a little Vibrato, and two larger amps running dry through a Panning Tremolo. ATM I have a little bedroom rig with one twenty Watt Virtuoso and two thirty Watt Conquerors. Sometimes I run different sorts of Amps off the Tremolo, I am getting a UL760 that will sort of match Tremoloing against one of my Defiants, over a wet Conqueror. And the farm is hopefully about to thaw out enough to get out there and hook up the big iron. 👍
@@joeschlicht Yep! I really look forward to Alone Time in the house as, yes, the volume gets significant quite early....and that's before boosted with a compressor!
2 amps is great for multi layer looping as well around the house.
Excellent episode once again chaps. For anyone hasn't tried this, it's a game changer. Another thing - the more diverse sounding amps you use, the wider the sonic spectrum - for example I use a Roland JC120 with a Kustom 100. Another thing - as Mick rightly mentioned - it doesn't have to be TPS wet/dry e.g. I use separate fuzzes on each signal path - wet/dry fuzz is a new dawn! Cheers :)
And another thing! lol
Struggled with an old nemesis doing wet dry setup at one point. No one could explain what was going on. Was dealing with the latency because it wasn’t dry through. Glad they fixed that.
I am still very much an Absolute Beginner on this, after watching the really in-depth vids, I really needed this! Next trick - find a suitable amp for home playing to match with a Blues Jr and add a Humdinger to my board!!! Much love, guys.
oh boy, that Dan's smile always make the world a better place, at least to me. Epic tones!
Great episode. I've been using your videos for a long time to play around with my own hybrid stereo and wet/dry/wet rigs in my spare bedroom studio. While I was aware of issue of polarity and phase, this really helped me understand some problems inherent in different pedals and why issues of signal routing might not always be as simple as flipping the polarity. Thanks for sharing your wealth of knowledge with us.
I went from a tps wet dry 2 amp setup to a 3 amp tps wdw, and now I’m tinkering with a 6 amp monster wet wet dry dry wet wet setup with different effects going to different wet amp combinations and different drives to the dry amps, what a rabbit hole I stepped into
You did didn't you... You opened a wormhole.
@@bmoneybby I did and it gets expensive, fun but expensive.
THIS WAS SO HELPFUL, DAN WORRALL FANCY CHIPPING IN TO HELP THE COMMUNITY OUT? NO PRESSURE DAN, YOUVE DONE ENOUGH TO HELP US ALL
You've flipped my understanding polarity and got my thinking in phase! Cheers Dan and Mick!!
Hi Mick, hi Dan. I've recently been watching your episodes on wet/dry and wet/dry/wet rigs, so this episode has come at the right time and is the icing on the cake. Definitely going to try it out. I've pretty much always had a couple of amps, but only ever used one or the other as my "Go to amp"... but from now on it will be... "Go two amps!!"
Yes, this video is absolute gold! I'm an EE and and an old guy and have been playing guitar for 50+ years. What I really think is great is your clarification of polarity versus phase. The terminology is mixed up in many peoples understanding and how products don't always use the terms consistantly. And in this world of awesome digital effects pedals, the analog dry through issue is now becoming a common issue. I recently bought an Eventide H90, which I think is quite incredible. But in a recent episode, I heard Mick say the lack of analog dry through made it a non-starter. I now understand why this does not work in a "TPS Dual Amp config". The H90 is still awesome, but not in all configurations. Eventide claims that they had more phase problems with with analog dry through and therefore did not implant this in the H90... Super great episode!
Indeed. And there’s merit in Eventide’s argument when you get into some of the incredible stuff it does - pitch shifting especially. But exactly as you say it’s all about context.
Got maybe a stupid question. Are there safety issues with one guitar thru 2 amps? I ask because years ago I got zapped by the PA system
Was told that the polarity didn't match.
This was a great video
Beautiful video. I do not know how you packed all of that knowledge into 35 minutes.
Fantastic process to clearly demonstrate the pitfalls, and the audio clearly reveals the problems with the "out of phase" sounds. An epiphany moment for me with regards to analogue dry-through.
Gentlemen, very well done! This is how all of your shows should be. Concise, unlike my comment. This felt much shorter than 35 minutes and I re-watched a few parts. I'm now subscribed. I've been running two amps for years with the Fulltone True Path ABY switcher. It has a "Phase" switch. Nope, it's polarity. Thanks for the clarification. I work for an electric company in the US and have studied phase and I never realized it was actually polarity. Now you need to explain to everyone vibrato vs tremolo. I had that wrong for years too.
My current favourite rig is using a fender 1963 tremolux with a little trem and a deluxe reverb reissue verb at 2. Meris lvx in stereo, suhr riot mini for heavy, lovepedals cot50 always on od, ramble fx twinbender fuzz down for glassy single coil tones. You guys have been such a inspiration for all of us.
Mmmmmm. That is a rig!
Congratulations from me. This very detailed video is very useful for young people. Unfortunately I have to say, many of them don't want to KNOW. KNOW or ask someone who knows. Our generation, experimented, exchanged opinions. It's not shameful NOT TO KNOW, BUT it's sad and stupid not to ask someone who has thighs. Well, I'm not going to write "User's manual".......This is just A great appreciation on my part, as with care and simplicity you try to spread your knowledge related to the equipment necessary for a musician-guitarist. In this way "electric" music (rock, R/Roll, haeavy, blues, country, pop , etc.Continues and remains ALIVE still.(old, first, generation's guitarist. Ian Judas)
Excellent job covering what is probably the MOST IMPORTANT aspect of setting up wet-dry!! Awesome!!
You finally convinced me to play with my polarity even though I thought I was in phase all the time. Well.. Turns out I was wrong! I used the inverter module on my zoia to flip the polarity, but once I found out I had to flip it I just swapped the two ends of the cable to my speaker.
You are not alone!
Thanks for my T Shirt folks. You could not have made the experience any more pleasurable. Not to spoil any of the surprise details, but the best packing ever and the handwritten note was lovely. The shirt is such good quality too. Thank you.
Really interesting video. Mick and Dan always explain complex matters in clear and understandable terms. The examples really help to illustrate the points. Well done, guys!
The EQD Swiss things is great for this and it's got a boost pedal built in a long with 2 loops. Such a handy piece of kit.
Love the fact that while this isn't solely focused on bedroom playing, it does add an amazing depth to the sound that is hard to otherwise come by! My biggest issue here though is both my amps are solid state (not inherently bad, bear with me!) with lots of headroom. I boost into a low gain drive, and instead of more gain, I get more volume (and a bit more gain). I'm not driving the amp, pedals have high headroom, it's a an interesting "bedroom headroom" problem (to sort of steal Orange Amp's coined terms).Would love to see some episodes exploring bedroom tones (there have been a few over the years...)
Absolute Gold! Confusing topic explained (and demonstrated) as clearly as possible
A great, succinct video on how to get joy from running two amps, I wish someone had explained it so thirty years ago.
cool episode!
another big difference between phase and polarity is:
polarity is not frequency depending. everything is just mirrored on the time-axis.
out of phase is frequency depending. if the latency is i.e. 10ms which eaquals 100Hz, everything that is n*100Hz is amplified and everything that is 2n/(n+1/2)*100Hz is eliminated.
Love you guys. Quite apart from the subject matter at hand: started out on a Strat as a kid, spent years with Gibsons, came back belatedly to the Strat and realized it’s the most nearly perfect electric guitar ever invented. (Have and love a Tele as well.) I’ll have to try the two-amp ideas here. Thanks for your thoroughly enjoyable and informative channel.
Welcome Home! Playing a strat always makes you a better person. :)
@@DrRussPhd Thanks! I do believe you’re right. It certainly makes you happier. 😊
Finally got around to doing wet/dry with my Fender Princeton Non Reverb and Laney Lionheart 2x12. The sounds are beyond words… thank you so much for the inspiration!
Yes!
A well timed video. I just bought a Vox AC15C2 and I already owned a Fender GTX50. I was wondering how to use them together. A lot of this went over my head but at least I know what pitfalls to look for. I’ll check out your other videos to see if a deeper dive makes it click for me.
I clicked on the video thinking « an other video about this subject you covered so many times »
but no, you really achieve something new in this video because your sound examples are so thoughtful and good sounding I could clearly hear the impact on the dry tone on all the examples !! A masterclass in that domain ;)
Leo
This was one of your best vids, guys! I really liked the instructional asides.
Moo
This! Hi D&M! The 2024 content is stellar! Ty!
I run a stereo rig and did understand about Polarity being matched so the speakers move as one, but I never knew that the pedals could cause a shift. My rig sounds awesome as-is, but now I wonder if it couldn't be even better ? You took an extremely confusing topic and made it much easier to understand..... Well Done !
Love this..
I have a fender and a black star combo and was thinking about running the two.
Now I know how to do it properly.
I’ve heard there can be issue, but no details about the issues..
Thanks guys!!
So glad I chose a Strymon Volante and Red Panda Context 2 for my TPS Wet/Dry rig before I understood the problem. Dumb luck! Thanks for the clear and concise explanation guys!
My favorite episodes are the ones where you guys take time to teach the fundamentals. You always do it in such a clear and effortless way.
Long time viewer first time commenter, so thankful for y’all and your highly informational and educational videos. I’ve learned so much and have been able to put it into effect in my gigging rig. This video comes at a very fortuitous time as I’m in the process of yet another pedalboard makeover. Will definitely be digging into the specs of any potential pedals to join the party. I’ve yet to jump into playing out with a wet/dry or stereo rig but I love the idea of it, so keeping it as a potential option is always at the front of my mind.
Once again, many thanks for your years of service. So much incredible knowledge offered up to us and I’m so very grateful. Cheers!
You’re so welcome, thanks for watching
I love this show! I’ve watched every two amp show you’ve made and I learn something new each time. I’ve run wet/dry for about a year due to TPS. Analog dry through explains an issue I have with the Strymon Flint. The reverb is analog dry through but the tremolo isn’t. So when I use the reverb, it sounds great, but the tremolo always sounds off! Thank you!
Lastly, I have the Humdinger and it is awesome. I had a Lehle Little Duel II, which was nice, but the Humdinger takes up less space, is less expensive and its buffer adds a clarity that the Lehle didn’t. I also have a Wetter Box coming in a day or two for more fun.
Thanks again for your shows!
I play at really low volumes at home and honestly having 2 amps is a great solution. Lush full sounding vibes at lower volumes. Right now I am using the HX Stomp to manage it but before that it was a Radial Twin City which is a GREAT pedal.
This is one thing I realized…if at home you’d first think two amps will be double loud. But in reality having say 2 Roland Jc or whatever…you can get the volume very low, while still enjoying it! Also not bother anyone as much as pushing one single all louder. I don’t do stereo in the studio, but I like running stereo at home on two small amps! It’s quiet and just like listening to a stereo at home at tv volumes. Fuller and less volume to turn up.
After watching your video on wet/dry rigs years ago, I now use a Fender Super Sonic 22 with my EFX in the loop and a Fender Princeton Reverb for my dry side. I use a radial Big shot ABY box with phase and polarity. Sounds awesome!
Outstanding. I think I just about stayed with you guys to the end on that!... thanks - this had been an area not yet explored...
Lovely video on the foundational fundamentals -- it was this channel that got me into TPS wet/dry (and w/d/w) years ago, and since then I've run into seemingly every conceivable problem not covered by this video -- we need a followup! On:
1. The difference between transformer isolation and simply lifting the ground on one leg of the split signal. "Ground lift" switches disconnect the SHIELD of the signal cable and expose it to all kinds of EMI/RFI noise that is often WORSE than just the ground loop hum.
2. How/whether it is possible to eliminate loop hum AFTER a stereo pedal that is only mono in > stereo out to two amps. MOST stereo delays/reverbs are actually mono (one channel) DSPs -- they sum the stereo input signal as part of the analog to digital conversion, which can create its own share of phase headaches! How do we, you know, ACTUALLY USE stereo-out pedals with two amps without hum?
3. The problems that are introduced if you send your isolated leg of the split signal through other pedal(s), rather than directly into the amp. This is especially troublesome because pedals dump their noise to ground through the cable shield and when you plug in an "isolated" ground-lifted signal cable with the shield disconnected, there is nowhere for that noise to go except into your audio path! So how do we get a split signal chain with different effects on both sides of the split (rather than just one) without any noise/loop hum? Does the isolated leg of the split ALWAYS have to go directly to the amp?
These are the problems anyone who ventures down the glorious 2-amp path will inevitably run into, and sooner rather than later. Would LOVE to hear how you leg-ends deal with these scenarios!
1. Too complicated to worry about in rock’n’roll. Mick here. Dan has solved it on his latest gen GigRig products (they’ve moved away from transformers) but it’s something that’s never bothered me. And most shit //really// bothers me.
2. Just put the Humdinger, isolated side only on one output of the stereo pedal. Solved.
3. Been running wet/dry at 100-200 watts for years, and never had a problem with this because a) I use Dan’s power that is properly isolated and never has any noise and b) use good quality pedals that run silent on Dan’s power. The isolated leg can go through other pedals as well, as long as their power is isolated too. Hope that makes sense!
Really appreciate the reply, @@ThatPedalShow On point 1, pitfalls of a noisy city environment I guess -- I often wish I got to jam out in the country where the internet barely works! Sounds quite nice. Hi to Rosie! (and Dan, too). Thanks for the tips, Mick!
Thanks for revisiting this chaps.
I don't have two amps, but i do have an amp with an attenuated output and i run it alongside a plugin "amp". My version of wet/dry, but a bit more attainable 😊
This is such a valuable resource, and so well done. Thank you! I recently switched to wet dry for live and boy did I have a hard time figuring out what pedals flipped the phase when active. Amps are a 64 AC30 and a 65 Vibrolux Reverb, wet side typically in the Fender with a DMM Flint VB2 and phaser. Dry side mjolnir vemuram jan ray and a scarab fuzz. Sounds massive live!
Mmmmmm. Niiiice!
I thought my supro delta king 12 and marshall jtm studio sounded great out of my ua golden until I got a humdinger. Turns out that they'd been out of polarity all along but still sounded better than one amp on its own. Now they sound fantastic I've had to dial back the bass though. Thanks Dan for your brilliant splitter and thanks to both of you for all of the priceless advice.
Yes! This! Mick here.
One of the best practical videos on the topic... Thanks!!
Always used 2 amps live, Hot Rod Deville for clean and a peavey classic 20 combo on the preamp out from the fender to add some natural valve overdrive on top of the clean and have the sound engineer blend them on the PA. Best sounding guitar tone I've ever had.
Brilliant explanation. I was familiar with the basic earth loop and phase issues caused by using 2 amps but had never considered phase issues caused by digital latency. Nice one chaps!
Wow, that was excellent. Before watching your "Wet-Dry & Wet-Dry-Wet Amp FX Setups Explained video, I had a Radial Big Shot ABY - and I previously have split the signal at the end of my signal chain into two amps and left it at that - it simply beefed up the sound with delays and reverb going through both amps. It's fine but It's you mentioned, it can get a bit mushy with bigger delay/modulation effects. Splitting wet/dry (splitting before modulation/delay and reverb) seems to creates clarity - less mush and I feel it has a bigger sound for some reason. Really interesting. I use a vintage Deluxe Reverb (silver face) and Little Walter VG50 amp. Sometimes I use the DR with a Vox AC4 HW1 for a very different tone at smaller venues. Killer sound. Without you guys, I'd still be living in the land of Mushiness without knowing how much better it can be to split the signal wet/dry. Thanks guys.
Splitting is great to wet/dry! I have an ABY BABY I’ve tried at the very end, and then also as a split before effects. Wet/Dry…I use a Sky King(Fender circuit) and a Ampeg VT40 for the more distorted big parts. Sky King is wet/Ampeg only boost and distortions.
I found the same as well! Having dual mono with both wet, can get mushy unless you can tap dance fast. What I like is being able to have a nice clean wet Fendery tone going on. Then when I want dirt, just tap B on my ABY…all effects are gone and I have a great beefed up tone.
Personally, I don’t always run both amps on at the same time…even with wet/dry. Unless they are of similar cabs, and amps styles. It causes one amp to sound good volume wise, kicking in the second it’s too loud on stage. Then you turn both down and using one or the other….now it’s too low.
I’ve settled on just A/B for now…but still run wet dry, as it’s way less pedal tapping. Also found I need far less dirt pedals this way. But for gigging purposes, I keep a lot of drives as I’m not lugging two amps often. Just for studio use, practice or a big show. But def the way to go is to split it wet/dry for more diverse sounds, and less tap dancing or using a very complicated routing system to program. A lot easier than turning off 3 stacked wet pedals, and then turning on your distortions for one amp.
Great show!
Two Yamaha TRS 10.
One an original and the other a "Classic".
Lehle splitter.
(phase canselling option)
Dry signal in amp 1.
Wet signal in amp 2.
BIG sound in a small appartment.......!
I´ve done this for years.
Thanks to an early TPS video ........
Thanks Guys...!❤
Perfect!
I am set tup wet dry for the tube amps but when I can’t boot those up I also use the humdinger on a katana 50 and a THR 10c for low volume big sound. Make a huge difference to the experience with the digital stuff as well as the tube amps. Thanks to Mick and Dan for this awesome show.
I will just say what I use at my home studio and absolutely enjoy it tremendously! Wet-dry Egnater Tweaker 15 into a Jensen P12R and Quilter Superblock US into a Jensen Blackbird 100watt. Both 12". Oh my gawd what a lovely huge home friendly tone and volume!
I use Mooer ABY box to split the signal as wet-dry. No hum and all works. But one amp must be grounded.
Great vid! I had learnt most of this from your previous videos but it was great to have this as the focus, and to cover everything in one video. Really enjoy your guys' videos! Keep up the great work!
I just purchased a VOX AC15 C2 and a Roland JC 40 to do this. you are bad for my personal finances.
Just wait….. it gets worse. 😂
I did something similar but with a vox mini superbeetle (can’t afford the real thing and has it before getting the jc40). Best part is you can setup the jc40 as stereo for a WDW setup
Gustavo Cerati (from Soda Stereo) used that combination of amps, beautiful. Listen to the song Adios, I love the guitars in that song. Can be seen in the mtv unplugged too.
You can also go wet/dry/wet with that combo:
Use a humdinger or similar to split after drives and any mods you want to go everywhere. Send the dry to the AC15 and the isolated out of the humdinger to your wet effects, running stereo into the JC40. I prefer to kill fry into the wet amp but see what you like more!
Let's be fair, Mick and Dan are just really bad people aren't they? My wife hates the pair of them. 😂
Boys, you can reverse the polarity of one cable too. Needs a specially made cable where you switch +/- polarity on the cable end of one side. I must add, sorry, that this can happen with manufactured cables and you'll be chasing your tail trying to find the problem . . . until you use another cable that you KNOW is wired properly. You can then mark that cable as reversed polarity and use it to remedy reversed polarity issues where a single cable would make it an easy fix.
Good to know for future troubleshooting!
Now I just need two amps. But watching you guys nerd out is endless fun. Thanks for this one!
Guys, I really needed this show, ‘cause I’m setting up a new rig! You guys are life savers!
Cheers.
P.S.: Mick, still can’t get over the fact you had to part ways with that Pelham Blue SG, such a great fit, sounded amazing in your hands, those instances where one bonds deeply with an instrument are quite rare.
This was incredibly helpful, especially as the owner of a Belle Epoch Deluxe! Currently on a gear-purchasing hiatus but I could see both dual mono and wet/dry both being investigated fairly early on once the acquisitions start flowing again. Cheers guys!
This was very helpful, even after watching you guys since you started. I'll have to watch a few more times to consider each of several pedals in my chain, and if they are holding me back from greatness.
Gold indeed! I've been asking this question for some time with no definitive answer...till now. Cheers mates!
This just came to my mind, but not having a good stereo in my house, I have small radios. One time I noticed that when I turned on one small radio, another was still playing, tuned to the same station in the other room (very nearby). It sounded AMAZING. Just combining the tiny frequency ends that each 2-3 inch speaker didn’t share made for a really full and pleasing tone. So I think combining two (or more) already good sounding 12 inch speakers must be amazing. I’m ready.
Great video. I want to try to do a wet dry setup, but it has always seemed too much for me to deal with at the very outset because I don't understand polarity and phase. This is the exact kind of video I needed to give this a shot and feel like I have a chance at success.
That was gold.
I have been using stereo outs on pedals for 20 years. I’m gonna have to get a humdinger
Excellent video as always. Thank you for taking the time to demonstrate that lag caused by digital effects owing to A/D and D/A conversion - which I'll come back to later.
One thought re polarity and phase. It seems you are mixing cause and effect here a bit. A switch in polarity (using the 2 speakers example) causes a phase shift of exactly 180° between the sound waves coming out of the speakers. We all understand 180° as a flipping over or half turn. So we name that effect we hear when we change the polarity as a 'flip in the phase'. Changing the polarity can occur in many parts in the signal chain, as you demonstrate.
What you can do with a digital stereo delay to get a TPS wet dry effect and avoid that annoying phase shift owing to the A/D conversion is to use a L/R stereo delay but set the effect mix of one of the channels (e.g Right) to 0 and this goes to your dry amp. This way the 'dry' component of both channels is still in phase. Obviously not as ideal as analogue dry through but a compromise that works.
In a world of super high end boutique gear, the magic box that makes TPS wet/dry possible is really affordable,I have a Humdinger on ( actually hiding under)both of my boards ,and can say that I expect them to stay there despite every other Pedal getting swapped out over time- many thanks👍🎸
Great episode!! You guys ever do a episode about the difference in tone between 8/16ohm speakers- been down this rabbit hole lately, bought the same speaker in both ohms and I swear there’s a difference, am I losing it?!
Nope. You’re not losing it. Totally a thing!
So well explained and makes sense of why it is such a minefield if you don’t know what you’re doing… (Like me!)
Great video, this stuff is hard to explain and takes years to wrap your head around.
Two terms I think were (understandably) missing in this video, from a sound engineer POV, were 'Phase Cancellation' and 'Comb Filtering'.
Phase Cancellation is what you hear when one source is out of phase with another. Different degrees of out of phase and how similar the sources are will determine what frequencies are cancelled. Two exact same signals with one 180 degrees out is complete cancellation.
Comb Filtering is what you hear with Mako D1 going to one amp. Comb Filtering is frequency cancellation when there is a millisecond delay on one of the sources. The amount of milliseconds will determine what frequencies are cancelled (_hz and every octave of it)
Thanks for this Louis!
I stared using two amps a couple of years ago after watching you guys for awhile. I can't recommend it enough. As an audio engineer I love having a ton of control over the mix of my wet effects in my overall sound. I paired a Goodwood Audio Interface (sorry Dan) with my board to allow me to go to two amps without any of the gremlins that come form running two amps. But it also lets me run my signal in mono if I want to just use one amp.
I’ve always run stereo, just in digital. I recently got a tiny terror and it changed my life and I’m looking for another similar small amp right now! Thanks for the video!
Fantastic video, learnt loads, I was a bit confused on polarity and phase, not any more! Thanks guys
Mick! Nailed the intro. Loved the TL;DR, but I’ll go ahead and watch the whole thing. 😊
Well, don't I feel dumb. You mean to tell me I could've been doing this the whole freaking time? I just tried that amp to amp method and Holy Shit it works. Thank you so much guys! I guess I got super lucky. No phase problem and no hum.
I love using two amps. lately I have been running an orange tiny terror and orange ad 5 both with 12ay7 in the first positions. just a glorious sound. I use a Lehle dual sgos to manage evrything, works great.
I've been experimenting with 5, only 2 at a time. Amazing results.
you are definitely right, it is gold. I just have to figure out where to put my splitter (underneath the board is kinda tricky...)
Looking forward to this. After I get back from shopping with the lovely lady of the house. I run two amps after your videos. Awesome!
I don't know how schools grade in the UK, but man, I focused and I get an A. Lots of moving parts, but you guys nailed this. Very helpful. Laughed out loud at 29:16
wow, thats so cool! and a nice side effect was; there was considerably less AC hum on my one amp that usually is a bit noisy with hum. SWEET! Thanks dudes!
Great video. One thing I did think is linking the two amps with the two inputs to the Deluxe - that IS essentially using a Y-cable. Those two input are passively linked together (admittedly with a couple of resistors) so plugging into both inputs is pretty much the split in the Y-cable. It doesn't really make any difference to the reasons NOT to do either method but just thought we all like information.
I actually loved the sound of the opposite polarity! I think it gave a very wide and full sound!
It's official, many of us are unphased by this video. Such good work is likely the result of having a secret Lab!
I liked this episode. Thanks for the details, cautions and electrical insights as I consider making my system double and/or stereo.
Another great show. So well done. Nothing left out.
Years ago I had a Fender Princeton Chorus.
It had a mono FX out and stereo FX return.
Using a "Y" cable, one side fed directly back into one side's power amp, the other ran to a separate chorus+delay then back into the second side. Worked great.
Not the greatest amp in the world. But for what I needed then, it worked fine and gave me the Dry/Wet-Dry stereo (which is why I used an external chorus instead of the built-in stereo.
Ive bought and sold a few really nice amps over the past few years (only ever owned one at a time) amd recently got "the amp", a Hamstead Artist 20 and have been very happy with it. Now after seeing Dan demo a 2 amp set up at Pedal Empire in Brisbane in December and now this video, im on the lookout for another amp 🤦♂️🤣 I have a UA Golden which has analogue dry through so guess ill try that method first.
Thanks Dan and Mick for spreading the word of the lord (the tone lord)
Great ep., thanks lads. Wonderfully pragmatic but still entertaining. I was running my Custom '68 Deluxe RI and SV20H at the rehearsal studio the other day and hit the polarity switch on my Radial AB/Y just for the hell of it only to be met with more output. I thought I was stupid for not hearing it in the first place so it's reassuring to be told by the gear aficionados that it could've happened to anyone.
You could put the wet effects through the effects loop on the second amp with the dry signal going to the input of both amps via a ABY then you can keep using your non dry through wet effects. This is what I do and works really well.
Been running 2 amps out of the back of my boss ME 80 for couple years , love it !
I've never deep dived into effects, but recently got a zoom g2xfour, and now I'm loving learning the different pedals. Finally tried some stereo, and its cool that it has stereo chorus and delay, but now I'm curious about what else can be done live with stereo setups, lol! No wet dry out for my pedal though. 🤔🤔
Epic. This vid made me want to comment. I've been hearing you talk about 2 amps for a bit so I tried it a few weeks ago. Wow ! It's probably the most jaw dropping enhancement to guitar I've tried. My second amp is a crappy practise amp I had lying round so it almost doesn't seem to matter what it is. Just blending in a different sound and having some width is superb. My only wonder is it less focused in a band situation where perhaps a tight focused sound may fit in better with the rest of the band
Depends on the band. Very dense mix, maybe it’s too much. Smaller band with people who understand light and shade - there’s NOTHING better!
Shoutout to Empress Effects that have a built in transformer on the right side output on several of their stereo pedals. A very nice feature.
So if you have one of those last in your chain you can use two amps with no ground loop issues.
(And if the pedal happens to be a Zoia you can flip polarity as well if bredde.)
Guys! Love your show and the knowledge you both have. Always a pleasure to see new episodes! I'm surprised you don't ever mention Lehle switchers and their other top devices. ( not because they are german i hope.. 😅 )
I've been playing two amps for years and their P split is THE solution for me! Simple to use , affordable, built like a tank and no hum or phase problems while both amps can be earthed. Check it out I'd say..!
Two amps is the best 🙂 For owners and lovers of the older Nemesis, solution #3 is the way to use it in tps wet/dry: For me the Nemesis is always on with anything from doubling to long delays, so I've got it set with the internal routing options to wet/dry, This gets you the dry signal in one output and wet+dry in the other, the mix control now only affects the wet output (which can go from all wet to all dry). Both outputs are in phase since the dry signal is also converted to digital. The difference in sound in the dry signal is hardly more than any buffer would do, total latency is not noticable. I use a loop switcher and send the dry signal to an isolated output with a phase switch, but if your amps are in phase all you need is to avoid the ground loop problem (I've used gadgets for this but if a ground loop is the only problem, you can achieve the same through cutting the ground in one end of a regular cable). Used like this, I don't miss the analog dry-through at all.
There's limitations to this solution, I can't move the delay around the signal chain, run it in parallell etc but I never do (got other pedals for that 😊).
With all that said, Kudos to Source Audio for making a great pedal even better, if my original Nemesis breaks down I'll happily upgrade to the new ADT version!
The phase issue is crazy. This is one of the most informative and education videos I have ever seen for music.
How to tell if you don't have phase shifting and need to purchase something? Is that even a thing?
I have been using a strymon deco to split my signal for a few months now. I am wanting to try a dedicated ABY splitter now to see the difference. Biggest issue I've had is I use a Friedman Smallbox and Twin sister, and the stereo effects loops volumes are different, so I have had to use a volume pedal on the smallbox to lower the signal or else it spikes the reverb/delay volume on my Twin sister, and then raise the master volume on the Smallbox to bring the sound back up.