it's cool but it's pointless realistically. even for people who daily test dB's it's just a number. for example, if the display said 105, 107, 98 dB or 93 dB or 50 dB, would you have any realistic idea of how loud any of those are? no. you could do the same thing 5 different times and either have 5 different readings and think they sounded the same or have 5 identical readings and think they sounded different. it's nearly impossible to be able to guess a decibel value for a sound. the tone, pitch, etc will always seem louder or quieter than they are. 100 dB of low freq's sound quieter than 100dB of high but the low sounds "more". there's infinite variables.. just watch the meter change while they speak. it's irrelevant. 100dB at one spot in a room is galaxies away from 100dB at another spot or outside, or in a different room or with different ambient sounds etc etc.. but it is cool. i enjoy it.
Hey guys! Awesome show, as always. As a veteran sound engineer, I can totally back up what you guys are saying. Ive been mixing live bands for over a decade now, and getting a great guitar sound, especially with alot of gain and effects, is one of the hardest things to do. Using a wet-dry rig, is one of the most economical and consistent ways to achieve this. Even if the wet amp is something that you wouldn't really use on its own. For example I recently worked with a guy who had a HotRod Deluxe for his dry amp, and used a crappy old solidstate Fender Princeton 1x12 for his wet amp. The way he had it set, the Princeton would only come on with the wet effects. So without delay or reverb you only heard the Hotrod. I was very skeptical when i saw this, but i gotta say it really worked. and that amp is like 100$ used. And it made his HRD sound soooo much better. Also, having a separate mixer channel for the effected amp gives a lot of flexibility (in terms of EQ, Comp, etc.) to the engineer. On a side note: you mentioned a few videos back, you want to do a live band mix tutorial, but it was too expensive. Why don't you reach out to a rental company and offer to mention them in the video. I am based in Boston MA, so unfortunately i couldn't be the one to do it , but I can tell you my boss would jump at the chance to let you have a full line array and monitors and everything you would need to really do it up proper. A full simulation of the live experience to a guitar player in a band . You could talk about working with a sound man (or women) , and what's reasonable (or unreasonable) to expect, monitor mixes, in ear monitors, wireless systems, and most importantly, how the frequency range of a guitar sits within a mix. I feel like this is the missing ingredient keeping TPS from being a full on masterclass on getting great guitar sounds live! Hey if your ever in the area the offer stands, id get you all the gear, and do the mix, all just for credit. And maybe a TPS shirt. :) But assuming you'd need a company that was closer to you, ask around. I cant be the only pro sound guy with connections who loves your show. And if you own a FOH and backline rental house near these guys.... help em out! It would be so great, and I know i would wanna rent from the guys with an association with TPS.
William Davis i am doing wet dry wet with a 6505+ halfstack in the middle and a cheap fender solid state on the sides. I’m happy to know I’m not the only one who understands they don’t all 3 have to be stellar amps
@@luisangelEXALTA i dont know you are using boost or OD pedals... but if you do .. it can be really interesting to hear how each amp reacts differently to the increased input. (And thus can be at the preamp, poweramp, and speaker level) basically just remember an amps sound isnt a static thing, its a combo of dynamic elements.. So TLDR version... remember to check ur wet dry setup at different volumes, and remember adding another amp can effect how ur gainstaging works, esp with boost and light OD pedals. All that being said... it can absolutly work beautifuly. Just remember ur adding whole new set of variables
@@williamdavis7274 good stuff brother and yes i plan on having 2 overdrive stages and a high gain stage all via pedals tho both combo amps i have use drive Channels but i usually use a clean platform for my pedalboard. Amazing advice and will try the volume dynamics you mention.
My nineties rig was similar to the above. My dry amp was a DC30 or Ampeg Reverberocket. My wet was a Fender Ultimate Chorus. Dry amp was almost always dirty and I'd control the volume of the wet with a volume pedal raising it to taste. The more I raised that wet volume the cleaner my tone. It was a really great rig and I didn't see the need for a tube amp on the wet side.
Seeing Mick and Dan play their wet dry rigs in person was one of last year's highlights. The sound was so moving and inspirational. Listening to it on youtube simply doesn't do it justice.
For the next VCQs; a multi-part question regarding effects loops, since you mention them here: 1. You've said before on the Show that "not all effects loops are created equal". Can we get some specifics as to what makes a good effects loop? Or a bad effects loop? (Feel free to get technical!) 2. How do you tell the difference between a good loop and a bad loop (by listening or specification)? Are there some amps/manufacturers which are notorious for having poor quality loops? 3. If I only have one amp with an effects loop (so I can't compare the loop quality against another amp), and I just stick some pedals into my hypothetical amp's effects loop, how can I tell if it has a bad loop? 4. How do I know that the pedals in the loop are able to cope with the pre-amp level signal coming from the effects loop send? How much does this signal differ from amp to amp? Are there particular pedals which cope with pre-amp level input better than others? 5. Why might an amp manufacturer settle for putting a 'bad' loop in their amp? 6. If my hypothetical amp has a bad loop, how much worse will it sound with a long cable run to the effects in the loop? How much of a difference will long cables make to a good loop (assuming I'm not adding any buffers or anything into the signal chain)? 7. If my hypothetical amp has a bad loop, what are the 3 things I can try which are most likely to fix its 'badness'? Now that I've typed it out, it seems less like a VCQs question and more like a plan for a full episode.......... Also, you guys are awesome. TPS is fantastic. I'm not really one for online comments and such, but Mick's Moment of Self Doubt the other week made me realise how important it is that you guys hear from people like me, who absolutely love what you're doing but tend not to get involved in the conversation. I've learned so much from watching your videos, even on the odd occasion when the video has been on a subject that I didn't think would be very useful for me. Your presentation style is great; I love all the chat, banter, jokes, silliness, stories and tangents (especially the big long ones that take us way off track). TPS has easily been the best addition to my guitar world in the last 5 years. Keep doing what you're doing, in your way; that's why we're all here (well, most of us anyway).
Yeah, This peaked my interest too the only thing I could think of as "Amps With Bad Effects Loops" are Soldano-style amps because they tend to be made to take Line Level effects (so like Rack gear) which can make the effects not work at the correct volume. But other than that or a similar difference in output level I can't think of anything that'd make an effects loop sound lesser than another. Can't wait for Dan/Mick's reply to this though, it'll be a good lesson.
Thanks, Dan And Mick! I'm doing a Wet / Dry setup (Princeton reverb for the Wet and a Orange Tiny terror for my dry amp.) With the Humdinger to spilt the signal. After rearranging some pedals, I lost my place, spent 20 min trying to figure it out my signal path. Luckily, I Remembered this video. You two explained it perfectly! Having to actually see the physical connection points of the signal path was a game changer. Thanks!
On headphones, your out of phase demo had more bottom end and fuller sound....so i'm still confused. I have a radial A/B splitter and can hear a difference when I flip the phase switch, but can never tell which is in or out of phase....
@@macleanclassics It might be because of the hard panning. The signals from the out of phase amps aren't interacting with each other when you wear headphones because you don't hear the right signal in the left ear and vice versa. Edit: You can test this by making the signal mono before sending it to your headphones.
@@greganderson3096 I think you're right. I heard more bass in the out of phase sound. Then I switched my headphones to mono and it was the opposite. So interesting.
Dan, that clean sound when you cranked the immerse reverb up was one of the nicest cleans I have heard on this channel or ever. So rich and dense but has that amazing sparkle... Just beautiful !
Hey Dan & Mick! Just wanted to chime in with a couple of things to note regarding the CE-1: Firstly, the vibrato mode is not 100% wet in mono, it's the same wet/dry blend as the chorus mode but just uses a sine wave as opposed to a triangle wave. So when you ran that wet/dry, you essentially had 50% wet and 150% dry. Second thing, the 'high' mode on that CE-1 preamp inverts phase. So if you're only running it into one amp & using the high mode, you're inverting the phase on that amp. That's with the chorus effect bypassed (still going through the preamp). With the effect engaged, the dry & the wet are inverted phase from each other anyway so likely wouldn't make too much difference - but using low mode would eliminate the possibility of an unwanted phase inversion with the effect bypassed! Lastly, I'm yet to notice the Two-Rock sounding dark in the video (i'm only about halfway through), but remember that without some kind of buffer before the CE-1, high mode does sound very dark. It could be that with a drive pedal on before the CE-1, you're feeding it a buffered signal and so it behaves, but without any pedal engaged before it, you're feeding it an unbuffered signal. Again, the low mode does not have this issue and does not need a buffered signal in order to not sound dull! :)
You are right. On the CE-1 if you just plug a jack into the Mono out it will have a 50/50 mix between wet and dry, while as soon as you plug in a jack into the Stereo out the Mono will become full dry while Stereo full wet. They could have taken the advantage of this maybe running the Chorus through the wet amp but just using its Stereo out, in order to mimic a chorus sound between the wet and dry amp. Yes, high mode needs to see a buffered signal. I don't know if Dan used a buffered loop for the pedal or not. He also asked me if he could modify the level pot on the unit, so if he made the mod there would be no tonal issue. But it indeed sounded a little bit dark, maybe he could shred some light onto this (?). Yes, CE-1's high mode inverts phase so that's a thing to be aware of when using it. There's always Low mode anyway that doesn't sound bad at all.
I just purchased my 2nd amp for this wet dry rig. Now all my dry signal into Vox ac15 and dry wet signal into Marshall. No complain and no regret on getting a 2nd amp for this set up. It's a tone to die for. Thank you so much for all the videos.
Perfect timing of this video as I just converted to wet/dry. The issue I’m running into is that if you use a delay into a Reverb with both 100% wet, the reverb washes out the delay when both are on. If I just set the delay 100% wet and the reverb at 50-75%, the reverb only effects the delayed sound, so it’s not reverberating the dry signal on time. And also, with the Reverb set not at 100%, when it’s on by itself, I get dry signal. If I kill dry the Delay as in literally setting the Timeline to kill dry and not just turning the mix knob to 100% wet, then the reverb can never be used without the delay and it still is only reverberating my delayed sound when on. If I kill dry the reverb as in literally setting the BigSky to kill dry and not just turning the mix knob to 100% wet, the delay can never be used without the reverb. How do you combat all this? It seems like I’d have to set them both to kill dry, split the dry signal to go into both inputs separately, then out of both outputs and summed together again somehow and out to the wet amp, essentially running them in parallel. However, that sucks because I like my delay to hit the reverb. Also, what do I use to do all that? Seems like a lot of extra splits and what not, which I’m scared will destroy my tone.
Durgo25 Been scratching my brain trying to figure this out, too. I used to run a w/d rig years ago, and I would run the delay and reverb in parallel to combat this, but as you said, I want them in series. I’d love some insight on this..
I use my DD2 to split the amps, creating a stereo-like split, but my dry amp is getting the first, dry sound. The DD2 signal also goes into a CE3 that's set to vibrato only to get the Roland thing. It's amazing. The spread is ridiculous. The chorus is twice as big when only running the vibrato function into one amp and using the clean to be handled by the dry channel. Thanks for encouraging me to do this--from one of your old vids. I've been recording an album and hearing this separation in the recording is incredible.
I enjoyed meeting you gentlemen at the Collings booth at the Namm show. What you see on the air is exactly whom you meet in person, except there is no hand bell. You are always welcome in Southern California. Cheers!
I've been faithfully watching TPS and telling any guitar player to watch your show because you guys have such a wealth of knowledge and information. Thank you! I'm so thankful for you two for turning me on to wet/dry(wet)! Being an active seasoned player for nearly 40 years my search for the "Holy Grail of Tone" has been completed with this missing link. Thanks again! Jack Facca, Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada
The way I tell if two amps are in phase with each other is: If you place yourself in front of the two amps that are parallel with each other, if they are out oh phase they tend to feel as though they are panned hard left and right, if they are in phase they tend to feel as though they are both panned center. My two cents on it anyway, when you were flipping the phase it felt like the panning was changing even with headphones.
A 1 Amp wet-dry rig? This is the video we have all been waiting for, thanks fellas. I finally jumped in to build my wet dry rig. It went great and I discovered it sounds just as good with wet-dry running the 2 signals through separate channels on my amp...phew. TPS legal counsel can exhale...you just dodged lower back injury, class action lawsuit we were all about to file. Keep on rocking in the free world...you two...
That’s good to hear, I have a Katana and was going to ask if anyone was using one for the wet signal. Can’t decide on a new amp for the dry...AC30 or fender tweed, maybe a blackface!
@@griersco I'm doing wet/dry on the cheap, with a Katana 50 and a Blackstar ID-Core 100. Katana is dry using one 12 inch speaker, ID core is wet from 2x10 in (partial) stereo. I've only just started to play, but I'm mightily impressed for non-tube tones. I might consider swapping amp roles too, just to test, although the ID-Core 2x10 just naturally fits the wet space for me . Need to consider phase now because I actually can't tell the 'correct' phase, even when I swap the terminals on the Katana speaker. Perhaps I just don't have a right/wrong phase setup...
Featured in this episode: - Wheatus gets a shout (kind of) - Diagrams of plenty - hand motions! Absolutely ace episode guys. I'm going to have to get a third small amp to try this at home now. Q for the Q&A: What are your favorite small amps to use, lets say about or under 15W?
Talking Weather.... England (Cold - Dark and WET)....Melbourne Australia (44 C / 113 F - Stinkin' Hot and DRY).......Thanks for the great inspirational video fellas!!!!!! Getting the pen and paper out today and then heading to the local music shop to buy a heap more patch leads....Can't wait. Cheers. Marty from Melbourne.
Dave here, hello. Ordered myself a King of Blues from Riff City and got a free cookie! Or, as I told my wife, I ordered her a cookie and got a free pedal.
Howdy Gents, Paul from Long Island, NY here…..I’ve been watching since the GigRig Channel days and as a result I’m now sporting a Vox/Marshall wet-dry rig utilizing, amongst other things, a GigRig Q Master 10 and Humdinger (and a D&M drive!). Today’s show confirmed the correctness of my current set-up and I must say that guitar playing now is a joyous daily event (thanks to you guys!). One question not covered today is the optimal place to insert a looper pedal. Before the split, no delay/reverb effect get printed to the looper. After the split, looper output only gets sent to one amp. Any suggestions for a more optimal looper placement? Thanks and keep up the inspiring work!!
Ooh. That's a good question. I wonder what their take is. Personally, I would opt for the looper after everything. That way it's like another musician with their own amp.
I've wondered about where to put my TC Quintessence. I want the harmonies to go to one amp BUT I don't necessarily want my harmonized parts wet. It's a conundrum. I may just have to bite the bullet and go with wet harmonies. I can work around that.
@@vaughnquinlan6722 Agree. At home, for recording/experimentation etc, before is great fun. But live, after is the way to go. If you have a few whacky sounds stored in the memory for One-Shots, that's a nice compromise.
I have my looper last except for an always-on reverb, which gets rid of the problem of the end of the loop cutting off the reverb trails. This also lets me lay down a loop and play a very different sound over the top of it
Totally in agreement on now being the total crap time of year. Post holiday, cold, dark and depressing period! So your videos are much appreciated to overcome this drab background/time of year! Newly experimenting with wet/dry mixes and it opens up a whole new world! First introduced to me by your show! Another great reason to view/follow your pedal show!!! Blues fighters and blues players simultaneously, he he!!
It's funny. Maybe it's because I'm primarily a recording/mix engineer, but whenever I set up a wet/dry rig, I tend to think of the dry amp as my primary and use the wet amp as more of an effects send. I also tend to like a little reverb (literally just a touch) in my dry amp, so I guess it's more of a wet/not-nearly-so-wet rig.
The NotSoGuitarGuy I set them up as the dry signal is the base tone, then use the FX loop send, line out, or a DI box between the head and cab (make sure yours can handle speaker-level signals before trying it) to send that “uneffected”dry tone to reverb/delay to the FX loop return of the wet amp. This thing where they’re splitting the signal before it gets to either amp is a strange and foreign concept to me. I guess they like how it sounds, though, and that’s the important part.
@@OtherTheDave - I'm definitely splitting before the amps. Sometimes I'm not even running into a second amp, per se. Sometimes I'll split off a direct signal and use cheating-ass computer modelling for my wet side and mic my dry amp (for recording purposes). This is about the only way I can manage wet/dry/wet with my current equipment. Really just depends on the situation.
The NotSoGuitarGuy See, I’d call that a dual mono setup where you’re only effecting one of the amps. Wet/dry(/wet), as it was taught to me, was about mimicking the studio process where you record “your tone” (using however many amps that takes), then send that signal to whatever additional FXs you want (and, since this _isn’t_ the studio, then on to another amp(s) so you can hear your FX). That said, you do you. The great thing about music is that as long as you like how it sounds at the end, you’re doing it the right way.
@@OtherTheDave - if you look at it like I'm sending to an amp that just happens to be a virtual amp, I'm basically doing the same thing. The chain looks like this: Guitar > wah/comp/distortion/boost/eq/etc pedals > splitter > dry amp > mic > computer > DAW splitter > DI > interface > stereo amp sim with wet effects > DAW I really only do this for wet/dry/wet where I need a stereo wet. I only have 2 amps and can't pull off a proper wet/dry/wet setup. Otherwise I set up two amps and do proper wet/dry.
Speakers And Monitoring : A pair of speakers can be in or out of phase with each other. the same signal applied to both speakers will cause their cones to move in the same direction .If they are out of phase one cone will move in one will move out. Phase can be tested by applying a mono signal .. I’m liking your RUclips Channel more frequently . The comment is from a copyright 1974 Modern Recording Techniques By Robert E. Stevens .Wet Dry Seperatiion because of this Video is greatly implemented .Thankz
Yes!!! Triangulo effects!! I have the Ce-1 ensemble crunch and it’s never off, My always on pedal. Literally what my rig was missing. Made all my other pedals better. I even got taller! Smarter! Okay maybe not.
Hey guys!.....another great show. Your previous shows on wet/dry led me down the rabbit hole and now there’s no escape! Just wanted to add that the OX is an INCREDIBLE tool for wet/dry by using the OX’s on board effects as wet only sends and let the OX control the fx to dry mix......all post speaker as would be in a typical modern recording scenario. You can even run the OX outs through your pedal board with pedals that can accept line level inputs like the Strymon stuff. Pipe that into your room monitors and MASSIVE will have a new definition. Give it a whirl!
So I've worked up a killer wet/dry/effects loop setup working in my Garage, sounds pro. Here in Nashville, "serious" guitar players, have road rigs and local rigs. If you come out to a bar gig with a full rig you get a lot of cross looks and a level of disrespect. Is that everywhere or just here. Do you guys have a bar rig? For me bar shows are my musical outlet. I don't want to go half ass at them. Just ranting I guess.
Great Demo. I have a Fender Blues JR IV and a Laney L5 Studio. Do you think this would be a good combo and if so what device would you suggest to make this a Wet/Dry and or a Stereo rig.
Humdingers aren't so easy to come by in Europe. So for anyone looking, three not so expensive splitters are: Bright Onion Pedals (BOP) Isolated ABY pedal in the UK. In the EU, Palmer PGA 03 Y-Box Guitar Splitter (about £90), and the Lehle P-Split III (about £120). All have isolated output, and a phase inverter switch.
Once you go wet-dry you never go back. Only way is forward: to go wet-dry-wet, to seek out new tones, new inspirations: to boldly go where no rig has gone before! (except Ed O'Brien he's probably already done everything you can think of before you even think of it). Wet-Dry-Wet, finger puppets, and an Inclusive non-binary Chorus Line. Welcome to That Kinky Show
@@TheDogPa Respectfully disagree with regards to wet-dry. That dry amp really helps your tone stay in the mix, right where it should be, And if the sound guy doesn't want to mic both, just mic the wet amp and crank the dry amp up a little. It works like a charm. I haven't used WDW live. But I'd be willing to bet that, in the right context and with a soundperson who knows their stuff, it could totally work. However, it may be subject to the same problems that make stereo unworkable for me.
@@mattgilbert7347 My experience is if the sound guy is good, the sound will be good. 2 amps was cool for a while, but it is just a mess to deal with it all...which is why some use modeling when you have to set it up and break it down...and carry it, night after night...and deal with another sound guy the next night...just my experience after 40+ years of playing.
Thanks Mick and Dan (or Dan and Mick), for explaining wet and dry in terms that an idiot like myself can understand. Thankfully, Chris Buck said you had dome this explanation video when I asked him about it last week. He did tell me, but left me with questions, which is why he recommended this episode. Hope to meet you to say thanks properly. Kindest regards and gratitude, Dave W 😊
Dan, can you please actually invent a product that dims all the pedals on my board and then spotlights them as you turn them on? Mick's editing here is so helpful, and after watching these episodes for years i almost expect my board to do the same when i look at it.
It was you first (I think) wet-dry video that inspired me to run a second amp. Completely changed everything. I can play loud and it sounds wonderful with plenty of reverb and delay. And on those nights when I have to keep it quiet, I can turn both amps on and it still sounds full and beautiful instead of thin and brittle. It's amazing how much of a difference it makes. Currently running a Marshall Origin 50 and a Vox AC15.
Great video, guys. This was a big deal for me, and this really cleared things up for me. Now, for the next hurdle: being able to afford two amps for running this rig... Also: Mic, the way your PRS sounded to you today is the way it sound to me every time you play it. And indeed, every PRS. Dull and flat seems to me to be a property of PRS guitars.I don't know what it is about them, but they always feel lifeless and dead to me, no matter what you do to them.
A question for Dan. Would you consider designing a G2 with a display? Considering the number of banks, it seems like the ability to name presets would be the natural progression for that device. Regardless, thank you both for the invaluable education you have given me through That Pedal Show!!!
they offer the Midi Driver specifically for that... although not an on-board screen, you can use an iOS device to control or display whats going on in G2
You can do Wet-Dry with one amp: use a Parallel Loop Pedal that has a mix control! Your dry signal will sit on top of your time based effects; phasing reverb tails in the loop for instance. The Carl Martin Paraloop pedal and the One Control Mosquite Blender are both good for this. Cheers! the Harparatus
Hey fellas, greetings from Oklahoma! I just wanted to say thank you for all your great educational videos. Pre Covid I was an accoustic guitar player for a long time and decided to dabble in electric guitars and pedals. Many purchases later and I'm messing around with creating a Wet/Dry/Wet rig with budget pedals, two cheap Monoprice amps and my Princeton Reverb. Thank you so much for all the information and inspiration!
All of this! I came here specifically to hear that pedal. I've been following the guy who builds them on Instagram for a few months now. So glad it finally found it's way onto TPS!
Yes but not Univibe-style Vibrato. I tried that. It wasn't a chorus. They did this with the VB-2 in another episode. I believe Dan ran a Paige>Tumnus>ABY split>VB-2 & Delay to wet amp. Best tone ever.
@@mattgilbert7347 Univibe is not considerable a proper "Vibrato" because it's not just a wet (triangle or sine) modulated signal so that's fair. As you say this could work better with a VB-2. Or if you hear just the wet side of the CE-1 it's just a vibrato :)
Check it out, I've set up the timecode, just click and it'll take you to the setup I mentioned.(NB it was a Broadcast, not a Paige). Best. Tone. Ever. ruclips.net/video/KmFL_9g7nco/видео.html
I'm just working on my rig to go wet/dry so your video is perfectly in time and very very informative as usual.. thanks! Being involved in this process I think there are a lot more details that could be discussed because of the number of ways you can do a wet/dry rig also if I realize that probably it would become very annoying for many people here so.. I just leave here a brief list of things that I'm taking into account for my rig as a trace for further discussions: 1) Using a WET/DRY rig with the DRY signal hitting both amps beside phase and isolation you must take into account the analog or digital dry-through of the pedals hitting just the wet amp as also with AD/DA delay of few msecs you will hear that bad "flanging" effect that will destroy all your dreams. 2) In WET/DRY rigs with KILL-DRY on the WET side, phase (and digital dry-through of course) is not an issue anymore as we don't have dry signal here and we will hear only delalyed repeats or reverb trails. On the other end the lack of dry signal makes very difficoult to handle multiple effects (as just a delay and a reverb) which should be processed in parallel for obvous reason (if run in series just the delay repeats can hit the reverb). Using multi-fx digital rack units with internal routing possibilities running parallel can be easy but working with pedals can be really really tough and a lot of other stuff would be needed (and at the end of the road I wouldn't carry a second amp to leave it silent when I don't use delays.. ; )) 3) I'd like to use dry amp gain but my amp doesn't have an FX loop. Well I'm planning to get my WET signal post power amp (that's even better in my opinion) with some sort of line out box placed in the ampspeaker path but.. now I will have a LINE LEVEL signal hitting my first FX pedal so I must be sure if it can handle it. Then after all the WET FXs I'm planning to go to an SS power amp but I must be sure that the INSTRUMENT level going out from my last pedal in the WET chain can drive it properly.. right? 4) Oh Lord.. I think it's enough.
You put a Squier on the diagram!! I thought my volume pedal can do the job, but... it have not phase reverse... so... 1) reverse the polarity on the dry amp 2) get some proper AYB box. I really enjoy this episode and it is mega helpful. Thank you guys
Great video, like always. For anyone trying to do WDW using an effects loop, an easy way to deal with phasing issues, an the headache of understanding the signal flow, is to use a multi-effects unit. I use an old POD HD500, that I bought used, to deal with the split after the effects send of my dry amp. I then use the stereo outs of the unit to go to the effects return of my wet amps. Using an effects unit like this, gives you the option of also introducing "real" pedals in the units stero effects loop. This seems to also solve some of the issues I have had in the past, with pedals that reverse/inverse the phase after turning them on or off. I should say, that because my dry amps send is line-level, I flip a switch on the POD making the signal coming out of the stereo outs also become line-level. This is mostly used when you go direct, but works really well in my situation as well. I don't know for sure, if making the signal line-level, is the reason it works so extremely well, as I haven't really tried not having it line-level, but after I started using an effects unit, I have had no issues with phasing or hum at all. Most units like this also have a switch or something to deal with grounding issues. Another cool feature of most multi-effects units like this, is that you can control the volume level of each signal chain, as well as the overall volume of your wet amps. This is especially handy in my case, as my amps are mismatched in terms of wattage, and have no master volume control on any of them. (30 Watt Wet, 5 Watt dry, and 15 Watt Wet). I don't know if any multi-effects units have analog through, but I personally don't really care too much about it in this case, as I use the wet amps 100% Wet anyway, and even if I didn't I don't think I would care either. I hope this helps someone to get started with WDW through the effects loop, because the sound is glorious, and it doesn't have to be overly complicated. And for me, this way has helped me be able to understand how I would need to do it, if I were to use something other than a multi-effects unit to accomplish the same thing. And I might do so in the future, as the unit takes up alot of real-estate on my board, especially since I don't use alot of the built-in effects. But then again, it is a cool backup rig, when everything else fails. Hmm maybe I'll just get something similar, just much smaller, when they get older and cheaper on the used market. Once you go WDW, the sound will haunt you ;)
I may have missed this in this video or a previous one, but how would you select which amp is wet and which is dry? I've always assumed that the wet amp would be the higher headroom amp so the delays, reverbs etc stay clean as possible, but when I've tried that I run into volume issues when kicking on a boost that drives the dry amp but just volume boosts the wet amp. Is it best to just have amps set up relatively similarly in terms of gain and treat the wet amp like you would in a single amp set up?
I think you just explained the issue I am having. I couldn’t figure it out! My wet amp gets too loud and the dynamics while recording are just unmanageable. I have an attenuator for the wet amp. I think I will attenuate it more so I start driving the wet amp sooner. That should fix it! Should also improve my tone even more! Thank you!
Man, love you guys. I run a 2-amp wet-dry adaptation, in that my stereo reverb is run through the effects loops from each amp. Basically gain-split to dry-modulation/delays - then stereo reverb. Pure magic.
Can you please explain how I can achieve a wet/dry/wet set up using just one tube amp and then something like the GFI Cabzeus which has 2 independent speaker sim in & out. Is that possible & if so, would I still need phase switch & isolation if the wet Cabzeus ‘amps’ are virtual? Thanks. Joe Stivey (on my wife’s RUclips login 😁)
You can do Wet-Dry with one amp by using a Parallel Loop Pedal that has a mix control. Put your delay / reverb / flange in the loop and your dry signal will sit on top of these effects; dry guitar with phasing reverb tails for instance. The Carl Martin Paraloop pedal and the One Control Mosquite Blender are both good for this.
dproz Thanks mate but I don’t mean that. I mean sending dry to valve amp which is mic’d & sent to PA & 2x wet mix via GFI Cabzeus to PA. I don’t want my dry amp to have wet at all, even through the FX loop.
Wow ... I’ve just bought a humdinger to connect my two amps together. What a difference this makes ( wet /dry ) , this is more than the sum of its parts. My delay and reverb feel like they’ve come alive , wow
Finally got around to watching the rest... It's a bit of an epic! Thank you. Re. Mick's comment on less inspirational tones, for me the tones that were there were all spot on and Dan's tone around the 58 min mark = awesome!
I don't see how wet/dry with a 100% wet amp is all that useful though... You can't have more than one effect in your wet signal, right? Because if you have a delay and a reverb, both set to "kill dry", then the delay will only have the repeats, and then the reverb will only add reverb to the repeats, and remove the actual repeats (since they're its dry signal). So... What gives? Any tricks? One amp per wet effect?
Correct me if I’m wrong here, but you could do it, but you would only have the “kill dry” on the last effect in the chain, then in theory you could have as many as you want
@@chrisj2155 That wouldn't help though. If you have a chorus, delay and reverb, and then kill the dry signal in the reverb, you will lose your chorus and your delay trails. The only thing you'd hear was a slightly more modulated and longer reverb trail. The chorus and delay would be the dry signal that the reverb pedal kills.
I just re-read what Eskimo asked properly. The way to do that is use kill dry on the delay and that will mean no dry signal gets through to the reverb pedal after it. That would give you a workable wet/dry...
Very interesting show indeed! One way do the wet/dry/wet rig (especially when using a low headroom-no effect loop kind of amp) is to capture the signal from the main amp with a microphone in front of the speaker, and send this to a little mixing desk, then to power amp with the wet effects. I think Jeff Beck used to do that at one point with his little pro junior.
wow, great stuff here...can't wait to experiment with this concept...still a bit foggy on the 'phase' concept you were speaking of between each amp...but i suppose i'll stumble onto it along the way....thanks again guys, your demonstrations and chats are pure gold!
One of my favorite live players was a “no effects” purist. He went straight into two old Fender amps bridged; one smaller watt combo with reverb and a larger watt tweed style “BIG”. Amazing tone. He could get many, many tones with his guitar volume. Essentially, a basic version of this technique. Plain cake vs. layered cake with frosting!
You gents are the salt-of-the-earth! My first TPS episode was the one about small amps; and it helped me pull the trigger on a Fender Blues Jr. for my at-home, practice amp. I am so glad I discovered your channel. It was the first channel to which I subscribed! I have faithfully journeyed down the rabbit hole with you, and have built some humble pedal boards with your advice. I have explored wet-dry, and wet-dry-wet setups. While this has been an expensive journey, it has sparked a passion for tone, and helped me shake off the fear/anxiety of making a mistake. Thanks so much for helping me take risks, and more freely explore sounds. I don’t understand the comments about the videos being too long; I would watch them if they were twice as long. When you guys get on a roll, I bust a gut laughing along with you. The jokes and levity are the highlights of my week. I have two question at this point: General question: Do you have any preferred retailers in Canada. Do you have any? I have experienced some elitist attitudes at music stores, big and small. Their attitude tends to change a bit when you pull out some cash, though. Shouldn’t be that way. Specific question for this episode: Where would you place a Wah pedal in a wet-dry-wet, or simple wet-dry setup? Cheers, gushill.
Based on my research from other youtube channel, forum, etc. best is to put it align with the dry signal (before drive section or preferably) and before the buffer pedal (if you have one) so it’ll only go through dry amp.
I try and run wet/dry but it often turns into a mess on my board. I can do it, even if I have to write it out like an idiot. The worst time was when I was given 3 hours to "find another distortion pedal and a flanger because I want to DI you to two channels" WTF? Why did I need a distortion AFTER my cab sim/IR? And my flanger goes before gain, or if wet/dry, into the wet amp. I tried to explain that it would mean rebuilding my entire board and he said: "just get a splitter". I have one ofc, a god ABY - but that's not the point. He doesn't understand wet/dry, this bandleader, he wanted to make one channel even more distorted and wet and then leave the other channel with my regular gain and mods. I can do it with amps - but I struggle doing it DI at the best of times - but this was a nightmare! Ok, rant over.
![Did We Get Wet-Dry Guitar Rigs Wrong? [Proper Wet-Dry-Wet Vs TPS Wet-Dry]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/7CMpHIh0hqM/mqdefault.jpg)
![Did We Get Wet-Dry Guitar Rigs Wrong? [Proper Wet-Dry-Wet Vs TPS Wet-Dry]](/img/tr.png)
![Building Robben Ford’s Latest Pedalboard [For Autumn & Winter 2024 Gigs]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/SIDI-s7BS6g/mqdefault.jpg)
I like the dB meter. For a show about sounds having an idea of the relative loudness vs speaking voices is really important.
Todd Golden I find it distracting
it's cool but it's pointless realistically. even for people who daily test dB's it's just a number. for example, if the display said 105, 107, 98 dB or 93 dB or 50 dB, would you have any realistic idea of how loud any of those are? no. you could do the same thing 5 different times and either have 5 different readings and think they sounded the same or have 5 identical readings and think they sounded different. it's nearly impossible to be able to guess a decibel value for a sound. the tone, pitch, etc will always seem louder or quieter than they are. 100 dB of low freq's sound quieter than 100dB of high but the low sounds "more". there's infinite variables.. just watch the meter change while they speak. it's irrelevant. 100dB at one spot in a room is galaxies away from 100dB at another spot or outside, or in a different room or with different ambient sounds etc etc.. but it is cool. i enjoy it.
@@carl-ok9gn wow, a lot of words - too bad I’m not reading ‘em
The numbers mason, what do they mean
This show is single-handedly responsible for improving my tone 1000% over the past 3 years. Thank you TPS!!
you're so welcome
Hey guys! Awesome show, as always.
As a veteran sound engineer, I can totally back up what you guys are saying. Ive been mixing live bands for over a decade now, and getting a great guitar sound, especially with alot of gain and effects, is one of the hardest things to do. Using a wet-dry rig, is one of the most economical and consistent ways to achieve this.
Even if the wet amp is something that you wouldn't really use on its own. For example I recently worked with a guy who had a HotRod Deluxe for his dry amp, and used a crappy old solidstate Fender Princeton 1x12 for his wet amp. The way he had it set, the Princeton would only come on with the wet effects. So without delay or reverb you only heard the Hotrod.
I was very skeptical when i saw this, but i gotta say it really worked. and that amp is like 100$ used. And it made his HRD sound soooo much better.
Also, having a separate mixer channel for the effected amp gives a lot of flexibility (in terms of EQ, Comp, etc.) to the engineer.
On a side note: you mentioned a few videos back, you want to do a live band mix tutorial, but it was too expensive.
Why don't you reach out to a rental company and offer to mention them in the video. I am based in Boston MA, so unfortunately i couldn't be the one to do it , but I can tell you my boss would jump at the chance to let you have a full line array and monitors and everything you would need to really do it up proper. A full simulation of the live experience to a guitar player in a band . You could talk about working with a sound man (or women) , and what's reasonable (or unreasonable) to expect, monitor mixes, in ear monitors, wireless systems, and most importantly, how the frequency range of a guitar sits within a mix.
I feel like this is the missing ingredient keeping TPS from being a full on masterclass on getting great guitar sounds live!
Hey if your ever in the area the offer stands, id get you all the gear, and do the mix, all just for credit. And maybe a TPS shirt. :)
But assuming you'd need a company that was closer to you, ask around. I cant be the only pro sound guy with connections who loves your show.
And if you own a FOH and backline rental house near these guys.... help em out!
It would be so great, and I know i would wanna rent from the guys with an association with TPS.
William Davis i am doing wet dry wet with a 6505+ halfstack in the middle and a cheap fender solid state on the sides. I’m happy to know I’m not the only one who understands they don’t all 3 have to be stellar amps
I'm looking at doing this with 2 combo amps. One solid state. And one vintage tube amp
@@luisangelEXALTA i dont know you are using boost or OD pedals... but if you do .. it can be really interesting to hear how each amp reacts differently to the increased input. (And thus can be at the preamp, poweramp, and speaker level) basically just remember an amps sound isnt a static thing, its a combo of dynamic elements..
So TLDR version... remember to check ur wet dry setup at different volumes, and remember adding another amp can effect how ur gainstaging works, esp with boost and light OD pedals.
All that being said... it can absolutly work beautifuly. Just remember ur adding whole new set of variables
@@williamdavis7274 good stuff brother and yes i plan on having 2 overdrive stages and a high gain stage all via pedals tho both combo amps i have use drive Channels but i usually use a clean platform for my pedalboard. Amazing advice and will try the volume dynamics you mention.
My nineties rig was similar to the above. My dry amp was a DC30 or Ampeg Reverberocket. My wet was a Fender Ultimate Chorus. Dry amp was almost always dirty and I'd control the volume of the wet with a volume pedal raising it to taste. The more I raised that wet volume the cleaner my tone. It was a really great rig and I didn't see the need for a tube amp on the wet side.
Seeing Mick and Dan play their wet dry rigs in person was one of last year's highlights. The sound was so moving and inspirational. Listening to it on youtube simply doesn't do it justice.
For the next VCQs; a multi-part question regarding effects loops, since you mention them here:
1. You've said before on the Show that "not all effects loops are created equal". Can we get some specifics as to what makes a good effects loop? Or a bad effects loop? (Feel free to get technical!)
2. How do you tell the difference between a good loop and a bad loop (by listening or specification)? Are there some amps/manufacturers which are notorious for having poor quality loops?
3. If I only have one amp with an effects loop (so I can't compare the loop quality against another amp), and I just stick some pedals into my hypothetical amp's effects loop, how can I tell if it has a bad loop?
4. How do I know that the pedals in the loop are able to cope with the pre-amp level signal coming from the effects loop send? How much does this signal differ from amp to amp? Are there particular pedals which cope with pre-amp level input better than others?
5. Why might an amp manufacturer settle for putting a 'bad' loop in their amp?
6. If my hypothetical amp has a bad loop, how much worse will it sound with a long cable run to the effects in the loop? How much of a difference will long cables make to a good loop (assuming I'm not adding any buffers or anything into the signal chain)?
7. If my hypothetical amp has a bad loop, what are the 3 things I can try which are most likely to fix its 'badness'?
Now that I've typed it out, it seems less like a VCQs question and more like a plan for a full episode..........
Also, you guys are awesome. TPS is fantastic. I'm not really one for online comments and such, but Mick's Moment of Self Doubt the other week made me realise how important it is that you guys hear from people like me, who absolutely love what you're doing but tend not to get involved in the conversation. I've learned so much from watching your videos, even on the odd occasion when the video has been on a subject that I didn't think would be very useful for me. Your presentation style is great; I love all the chat, banter, jokes, silliness, stories and tangents (especially the big long ones that take us way off track). TPS has easily been the best addition to my guitar world in the last 5 years.
Keep doing what you're doing, in your way; that's why we're all here (well, most of us anyway).
Nathan Parmar Couldn’t agree more with this, you guys and the show are fantastic.
Absolutely agree. They're just so fun and inspiring to watch and they're great players also...
Good idea for a show about differences in effects loops
Nathan Parmar I couldn’t have said it better. It really is a great show. I’m hooked! Keep up the good work and ignore the haters.
Yeah, This peaked my interest too the only thing I could think of as "Amps With Bad Effects Loops" are Soldano-style amps because they tend to be made to take Line Level effects (so like Rack gear) which can make the effects not work at the correct volume. But other than that or a similar difference in output level I can't think of anything that'd make an effects loop sound lesser than another.
Can't wait for Dan/Mick's reply to this though, it'll be a good lesson.
Thanks, Dan And Mick!
I'm doing a Wet / Dry setup (Princeton reverb for the Wet and a Orange Tiny terror for my dry amp.) With the Humdinger to spilt the signal. After rearranging some pedals, I lost my place, spent 20 min trying to figure it out my signal path. Luckily, I Remembered this video. You two explained it perfectly! Having to actually see the physical connection points of the signal path was a game changer. Thanks!
Db meter is fine... stop worrying about it. Trolls will complain no matter where you put it. Then they'll complain if you remove it.
On headphones, your out of phase demo had more bottom end and fuller sound....so i'm still confused. I have a radial A/B splitter and can hear a difference when I flip the phase switch, but can never tell which is in or out of phase....
@@macleanclassics It might be because of the hard panning. The signals from the out of phase amps aren't interacting with each other when you wear headphones because you don't hear the right signal in the left ear and vice versa.
Edit: You can test this by making the signal mono before sending it to your headphones.
@@greganderson3096 I think you're right. I heard more bass in the out of phase sound. Then I switched my headphones to mono and it was the opposite. So interesting.
I'm not a troll - even though it is better than before, its irritating and does not give any useful extra info. But it is what it is...
@@shorerocks You don't like knowing the approximate volume relative to conversation volume needed to achieve the sounds they are getting?
A 12 string episode would be cool! That Rickenbacker jangle for example, such a vibe
Watching this as I set up my very first wet-dry rig and am beyond excited! Thanks for opening us all up to new sonic realms!
Dan, that clean sound when you cranked the immerse reverb up was one of the nicest cleans I have heard on this channel or ever. So rich and dense but has that amazing sparkle... Just beautiful !
Hey Dan & Mick! Just wanted to chime in with a couple of things to note regarding the CE-1:
Firstly, the vibrato mode is not 100% wet in mono, it's the same wet/dry blend as the chorus mode but just uses a sine wave as opposed to a triangle wave. So when you ran that wet/dry, you essentially had 50% wet and 150% dry.
Second thing, the 'high' mode on that CE-1 preamp inverts phase. So if you're only running it into one amp & using the high mode, you're inverting the phase on that amp. That's with the chorus effect bypassed (still going through the preamp). With the effect engaged, the dry & the wet are inverted phase from each other anyway so likely wouldn't make too much difference - but using low mode would eliminate the possibility of an unwanted phase inversion with the effect bypassed!
Lastly, I'm yet to notice the Two-Rock sounding dark in the video (i'm only about halfway through), but remember that without some kind of buffer before the CE-1, high mode does sound very dark. It could be that with a drive pedal on before the CE-1, you're feeding it a buffered signal and so it behaves, but without any pedal engaged before it, you're feeding it an unbuffered signal. Again, the low mode does not have this issue and does not need a buffered signal in order to not sound dull! :)
You are right. On the CE-1 if you just plug a jack into the Mono out it will have a 50/50 mix between wet and dry, while as soon as you plug in a jack into the Stereo out the Mono will become full dry while Stereo full wet. They could have taken the advantage of this maybe running the Chorus through the wet amp but just using its Stereo out, in order to mimic a chorus sound between the wet and dry amp.
Yes, high mode needs to see a buffered signal. I don't know if Dan used a buffered loop for the pedal or not. He also asked me if he could modify the level pot on the unit, so if he made the mod there would be no tonal issue. But it indeed sounded a little bit dark, maybe he could shred some light onto this (?).
Yes, CE-1's high mode inverts phase so that's a thing to be aware of when using it. There's always Low mode anyway that doesn't sound bad at all.
I just purchased my 2nd amp for this wet dry rig. Now all my dry signal into Vox ac15 and dry wet signal into Marshall. No complain and no regret on getting a 2nd amp for this set up. It's a tone to die for. Thank you so much for all the videos.
Perfect timing of this video as I just converted to wet/dry. The issue I’m running into is that if you use a delay into a Reverb with both 100% wet, the reverb washes out the delay when both are on. If I just set the delay 100% wet and the reverb at 50-75%, the reverb only effects the delayed sound, so it’s not reverberating the dry signal on time. And also, with the Reverb set not at 100%, when it’s on by itself, I get dry signal.
If I kill dry the Delay as in literally setting the Timeline to kill dry and not just turning the mix knob to 100% wet, then the reverb can never be used without the delay and it still is only reverberating my delayed sound when on. If I kill dry the reverb as in literally setting the BigSky to kill dry and not just turning the mix knob to 100% wet, the delay can never be used without the reverb. How do you combat all this?
It seems like I’d have to set them both to kill dry, split the dry signal to go into both inputs separately, then out of both outputs and summed together again somehow and out to the wet amp, essentially running them in parallel. However, that sucks because I like my delay to hit the reverb. Also, what do I use to do all that? Seems like a lot of extra splits and what not, which I’m scared will destroy my tone.
Durgo25 Been scratching my brain trying to figure this out, too. I used to run a w/d rig years ago, and I would run the delay and reverb in parallel to combat this, but as you said, I want them in series. I’d love some insight on this..
Maybe try running them through your effects loop via the four cable method if you're not already?
These guys are like brothers. Absolutely love them, and learn so much with them!
I use my DD2 to split the amps, creating a stereo-like split, but my dry amp is getting the first, dry sound. The DD2 signal also goes into a CE3 that's set to vibrato only to get the Roland thing. It's amazing. The spread is ridiculous. The chorus is twice as big when only running the vibrato function into one amp and using the clean to be handled by the dry channel.
Thanks for encouraging me to do this--from one of your old vids. I've been recording an album and hearing this separation in the recording is incredible.
That introduction tone is unreal! That guitar, those pedals and amps! So smooth and dynamic at the same time!
Thanks so much, guys. For me, this has been your most important vid yet, and I love all your shows. It's like the 'aha' moment for my sound.
I´m watching this and we have -30°C outside here in northern Finland, lucky I´m inside and can enjoy your great videos again. Thx!
I like the DB meter right there.
Waaaay better there. The center position took all my attention.
for me, being a keyboardist, the best platform of sound. Thanks guys!
The dry 100% wet stuff sounded AMAZING through headphones :-)
I enjoyed meeting you gentlemen at the Collings booth at the Namm show. What you see on the air is exactly whom you meet in person, except there is no hand bell. You are always welcome in Southern California. Cheers!
I love my modulation effects in the loop after the split. A dry signal on top with swirling / phasing reverbs and delays underneath.
I've been faithfully watching TPS and telling any guitar player to watch your show because you guys have such a wealth of knowledge and information.
Thank you!
I'm so thankful for you two for turning me on to wet/dry(wet)! Being an active seasoned player for nearly 40 years my search for the "Holy Grail of Tone" has been completed with this missing link. Thanks again!
Jack Facca, Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada
Fantastic episode guys! Took me a week and a half to get through and probably another viewing needed :-)
This was wonderful to watch. Not only was it educational, it was totally inspiring. Now I just need the budget for a wet dry setup!
The way I tell if two amps are in phase with each other is:
If you place yourself in front of the two amps that are parallel with each other, if they are out oh phase they tend to feel as though they are panned hard left and right, if they are in phase they tend to feel as though they are both panned center.
My two cents on it anyway, when you were flipping the phase it felt like the panning was changing even with headphones.
A 1 Amp wet-dry rig? This is the video we have all been waiting for, thanks fellas. I finally jumped in to build my wet dry rig. It went great and I discovered it sounds just as good with wet-dry running the 2 signals through separate channels on my amp...phew. TPS legal counsel can exhale...you just dodged lower back injury, class action lawsuit we were all about to file. Keep on rocking in the free world...you two...
Could we see a comparison of the Sovtek Mig-50 and an EHX Mig-50? Thanks for another great video guys!
The sound sitting proud of the reverbs and delay is a really clear explanation of wet-dry-wet!
I run a clean katana wet and my overdrives into a dry blues jr. It sounds just great to me. Really happy with the setup
Do you have any probs mixing the SS and tube amps? I have, and love, the katana artist and was worried I would need 2 tube amps 🤔
Roger McCoy I use a Fender Bassbreaker as my dry amp, and a Roland Cube 60 as my wet amp, they sound great together.
@@rogerloydmccoy why might there be issues?
That’s good to hear, I have a Katana and was going to ask if anyone was using one for the wet signal. Can’t decide on a new amp for the dry...AC30 or fender tweed, maybe a blackface!
@@griersco I'm doing wet/dry on the cheap, with a Katana 50 and a Blackstar ID-Core 100. Katana is dry using one 12 inch speaker, ID core is wet from 2x10 in (partial) stereo. I've only just started to play, but I'm mightily impressed for non-tube tones. I might consider swapping amp roles too, just to test, although the ID-Core 2x10 just naturally fits the wet space for me . Need to consider phase now because I actually can't tell the 'correct' phase, even when I swap the terminals on the Katana speaker. Perhaps I just don't have a right/wrong phase setup...
Thumbs up for those first two minutes alone. Gorgeous!!!
Featured in this episode:
- Wheatus gets a shout (kind of)
- Diagrams of plenty
- hand motions!
Absolutely ace episode guys. I'm going to have to get a third small amp to try this at home now.
Q for the Q&A: What are your favorite small amps to use, lets say about or under 15W?
Not a direct answer to the question but suss out their "which 15 watt amp for you" episode
lol he did kinda call them weezer instead of wheatus. good guitar tone in that song, though, and a great e-chord resolution at the end, indeed.
Thumbs up 👍👍 for another appearance of the DGT!!
7:11 - every time Dan starts that clever talk ;)
Sending you guys some sunshine from Adelaide, Australia after our 46.6 degrees Celcius day this week!
1hr 21 mins! Still not long enough!!!
Hope you're having fun at Namm guys!
Talking Weather.... England (Cold - Dark and WET)....Melbourne Australia (44 C / 113 F - Stinkin' Hot and DRY).......Thanks for the great inspirational video fellas!!!!!! Getting the pen and paper out today and then heading to the local music shop to buy a heap more patch leads....Can't wait. Cheers. Marty from Melbourne.
Dave here, hello. Ordered myself a King of Blues from Riff City and got a free cookie! Or, as I told my wife, I ordered her a cookie and got a free pedal.
Ha! I’m going to go ahead and order my wife a cookie right now- what a thoughtful husband I am.
The Hilton give those out when you check-in ... I got double-chocolate and walnut - how was your cookie ?
"I know it is an expensive way to buy cookies but, Honey, You are worth it!"
Great video! Can’t wait to try this out when I get home. Love that first wet dry wet tone that Dan was playing. Killer
I didn't think I'd see a Bespeco product on TPS. I bought a couple when I was a kid that I still own. None more plastic.
Thanks Dan and Mick for adding depth to your previous shows and explanations. 👍🍻
Howdy Gents, Paul from Long Island, NY here…..I’ve been watching since the GigRig Channel days and as a result I’m now sporting a Vox/Marshall wet-dry rig utilizing, amongst other things, a GigRig Q Master 10 and Humdinger (and a D&M drive!). Today’s show confirmed the correctness of my current set-up and I must say that guitar playing now is a joyous daily event (thanks to you guys!). One question not covered today is the optimal place to insert a looper pedal. Before the split, no delay/reverb effect get printed to the looper. After the split, looper output only gets sent to one amp. Any suggestions for a more optimal looper placement? Thanks and keep up the inspiring work!!
Ooh. That's a good question. I wonder what their take is. Personally, I would opt for the looper after everything. That way it's like another musician with their own amp.
I've wondered about where to put my TC Quintessence. I want the harmonies to go to one amp BUT I don't necessarily want my harmonized parts wet. It's a conundrum. I may just have to bite the bullet and go with wet harmonies. I can work around that.
@@vaughnquinlan6722 Agree. At home, for recording/experimentation etc, before is great fun. But live, after is the way to go. If you have a few whacky sounds stored in the memory for One-Shots, that's a nice compromise.
I have my looper last except for an always-on reverb, which gets rid of the problem of the end of the loop cutting off the reverb trails. This also lets me lay down a loop and play a very different sound over the top of it
Oh and err, consider a stereo looper
Totally in agreement on now being the total crap time of year. Post holiday, cold, dark and depressing period! So your videos are much appreciated to overcome this drab background/time of year! Newly experimenting with wet/dry mixes and it opens up a whole new world! First introduced to me by your show! Another great reason to view/follow your pedal show!!! Blues fighters and blues players simultaneously, he he!!
It's funny. Maybe it's because I'm primarily a recording/mix engineer, but whenever I set up a wet/dry rig, I tend to think of the dry amp as my primary and use the wet amp as more of an effects send. I also tend to like a little reverb (literally just a touch) in my dry amp, so I guess it's more of a wet/not-nearly-so-wet rig.
The NotSoGuitarGuy I set them up as the dry signal is the base tone, then use the FX loop send, line out, or a DI box between the head and cab (make sure yours can handle speaker-level signals before trying it) to send that “uneffected”dry tone to reverb/delay to the FX loop return of the wet amp.
This thing where they’re splitting the signal before it gets to either amp is a strange and foreign concept to me. I guess they like how it sounds, though, and that’s the important part.
@@OtherTheDave - I'm definitely splitting before the amps. Sometimes I'm not even running into a second amp, per se. Sometimes I'll split off a direct signal and use cheating-ass computer modelling for my wet side and mic my dry amp (for recording purposes). This is about the only way I can manage wet/dry/wet with my current equipment.
Really just depends on the situation.
The NotSoGuitarGuy See, I’d call that a dual mono setup where you’re only effecting one of the amps. Wet/dry(/wet), as it was taught to me, was about mimicking the studio process where you record “your tone” (using however many amps that takes), then send that signal to whatever additional FXs you want (and, since this _isn’t_ the studio, then on to another amp(s) so you can hear your FX).
That said, you do you. The great thing about music is that as long as you like how it sounds at the end, you’re doing it the right way.
@@OtherTheDave - if you look at it like I'm sending to an amp that just happens to be a virtual amp, I'm basically doing the same thing. The chain looks like this:
Guitar > wah/comp/distortion/boost/eq/etc pedals > splitter > dry amp > mic > computer > DAW
splitter > DI > interface > stereo amp sim with wet effects > DAW
I really only do this for wet/dry/wet where I need a stereo wet. I only have 2 amps and can't pull off a proper wet/dry/wet setup.
Otherwise I set up two amps and do proper wet/dry.
I like to put one delay in each actually, allows for some cool ping-ponging without going stereo.
Speakers And Monitoring : A pair of speakers can be in or out of phase with each other. the same signal applied to both speakers will cause their cones to move in the same direction .If they are out of phase one cone will move in one will move out. Phase can be tested by applying a mono signal .. I’m liking your RUclips Channel more frequently . The comment is from a copyright 1974 Modern Recording Techniques By Robert E. Stevens .Wet Dry Seperatiion because of this Video is greatly implemented .Thankz
Yes!!! Triangulo effects!! I have the Ce-1 ensemble crunch and it’s never off, My always on pedal. Literally what my rig was missing. Made all my other pedals better. I even got taller! Smarter! Okay maybe not.
Hahaha, spotted you Jose! Thanks :)
Will Galluccio haha No thank you!
Hey guys!.....another great show. Your previous shows on wet/dry led me down the rabbit hole and now there’s no escape! Just wanted to add that the OX is an INCREDIBLE tool for wet/dry by using the OX’s on board effects as wet only sends and let the OX control the fx to dry mix......all post speaker as would be in a typical modern recording scenario. You can even run the OX outs through your pedal board with pedals that can accept line level inputs like the Strymon stuff. Pipe that into your room monitors and MASSIVE will have a new definition. Give it a whirl!
So I've worked up a killer wet/dry/effects loop setup working in my Garage, sounds pro. Here in Nashville, "serious" guitar players, have road rigs and local rigs. If you come out to a bar gig with a full rig you get a lot of cross looks and a level of disrespect. Is that everywhere or just here. Do you guys have a bar rig? For me bar shows are my musical outlet. I don't want to go half ass at them. Just ranting I guess.
Hi Dan, Hi Mick 👋🏻
You guys opened my ears to wet/dry, I now own an ABY-BABY and I’m loving it!
SCHWANG!!!
Great Demo. I have a Fender Blues JR IV and a Laney L5 Studio. Do you think this would be a good combo and if so what device would you suggest to make this a Wet/Dry and or a Stereo rig.
Sounds awesome to me. Use the best sounding amp as your main and the other as the wet. They named a few splitters in the show.
Humdingers aren't so easy to come by in Europe. So for anyone looking, three not so expensive splitters are: Bright Onion Pedals (BOP) Isolated ABY pedal in the UK. In the EU, Palmer PGA 03 Y-Box Guitar Splitter (about £90), and the Lehle P-Split III (about £120). All have isolated output, and a phase inverter switch.
I came into this wanting to confirm my opinion that wet/dry rigs are a waste of time. Now I want one bad!!
Hahahaha!!!
This was really a fantastic video. The most important information I got from it is that I need an ASAT.
Once you go wet-dry you never go back.
Only way is forward: to go wet-dry-wet, to seek out new tones, new inspirations: to boldly go where no rig has gone before! (except Ed O'Brien he's probably already done everything you can think of before you even think of it).
Wet-Dry-Wet, finger puppets, and an Inclusive non-binary Chorus Line.
Welcome to That Kinky Show
> Inclusive non-binary Chorus Line.
Ha ha, that collided with an internal dialogue I was having. :-)
Great in a bedroom or for mellow sleepy stuff, but for 'rock and roll' on a stage with actual musicians playing live it is just a mess.
@@TheDogPa Respectfully disagree with regards to wet-dry. That dry amp really helps your tone stay in the mix, right where it should be, And if the sound guy doesn't want to mic both, just mic the wet amp and crank the dry amp up a little. It works like a charm.
I haven't used WDW live. But I'd be willing to bet that, in the right context and with a soundperson who knows their stuff, it could totally work.
However, it may be subject to the same problems that make stereo unworkable for me.
@@deanjohnston104 Do tell....
@@mattgilbert7347 My experience is if the sound guy is good, the sound will be good. 2 amps was cool for a while, but it is just a mess to deal with it all...which is why some use modeling when you have to set it up and break it down...and carry it, night after night...and deal with another sound guy the next night...just my experience after 40+ years of playing.
Thanks Mick and Dan (or Dan and Mick), for explaining wet and dry in terms that an idiot like myself can understand. Thankfully, Chris Buck said you had dome this explanation video when I asked him about it last week. He did tell me, but left me with questions, which is why he recommended this episode. Hope to meet you to say thanks properly. Kindest regards and gratitude, Dave W 😊
Dan, can you please actually invent a product that dims all the pedals on my board and then spotlights them as you turn them on? Mick's editing here is so helpful, and after watching these episodes for years i almost expect my board to do the same when i look at it.
How often do you talk about your board? 😂
Dan Higginson - to myself? All the time!
This is a Brilliant idea. Maybe will be available on the next "gigrig gold"??
It was you first (I think) wet-dry video that inspired me to run a second amp. Completely changed everything. I can play loud and it sounds wonderful with plenty of reverb and delay. And on those nights when I have to keep it quiet, I can turn both amps on and it still sounds full and beautiful instead of thin and brittle. It's amazing how much of a difference it makes.
Currently running a Marshall Origin 50 and a Vox AC15.
Great video, guys. This was a big deal for me, and this really cleared things up for me. Now, for the next hurdle: being able to afford two amps for running this rig...
Also: Mic, the way your PRS sounded to you today is the way it sound to me every time you play it. And indeed, every PRS. Dull and flat seems to me to be a property of PRS guitars.I don't know what it is about them, but they always feel lifeless and dead to me, no matter what you do to them.
agree whole heartedly
I love the way mine plays, but changed the pickups.
Yes, I've tried to be engaged by them, but they always feel and sound balsa to me. YMMV of course.
My wet/dry set is my Hiwatt (wet)/ Marshall (dry) . Been using this set up for decades. Well done on the explainations.
The Radial shotgun does 1 in 4 out, 3 of which can phase reverse and isolate...
Our weekly dose of living vicariously through two awesome dudes. Cheers guys and thanks for the content. You guys are great.
A question for Dan. Would you consider designing a G2 with a display? Considering the number of banks, it seems like the ability to name presets would be the natural progression for that device. Regardless, thank you both for the invaluable education you have given me through That Pedal Show!!!
I second that. With the introduction of the Boss ES8 it would be nice to have a display. Love the show!
they offer the Midi Driver specifically for that... although not an on-board screen, you can use an iOS device to control or display whats going on in G2
The most important video on pedal effects ever made.
If I set a Wet-Wet-Wet rig, do I have to play "Love is all around"?
It’s the law
“Love is all a-ground”
nice ;)
You win this weeks comments. 😂
Love the db meter. More important is that I love your show. This episode is beyond amazing.
Thank you kindly!
You can do Wet-Dry with one amp: use a Parallel Loop Pedal that has a mix control! Your dry signal will sit on top of your time based effects; phasing reverb tails in the loop for instance. The Carl Martin Paraloop pedal and the One Control Mosquite Blender are both good for this.
Cheers! the Harparatus
So happy to see Will's Chorus being featured in this episode!
looking forward to the 5.1 film scoring episode…
Hey fellas, greetings from Oklahoma! I just wanted to say thank you for all your great educational videos. Pre Covid I was an accoustic guitar player for a long time and decided to dabble in electric guitars and pedals. Many purchases later and I'm messing around with creating a Wet/Dry/Wet rig with budget pedals, two cheap Monoprice amps and my Princeton Reverb. Thank you so much for all the information and inspiration!
Awesome, nice one Adam. Thanks for being here!
How does the Triangulo Lab Chorus Ensemble compare to the CE-1, CE-2, CE-2W, and the CE-5?
All of this! I came here specifically to hear that pedal.
I've been following the guy who builds them on Instagram for a few months now. So glad it finally found it's way onto TPS!
you guys are so good you deserve a netflix series
If you send Vibrato to the wet amp only is that, summed with the dry amp, not you really making "chorus"?
In some way yes, and that's kinda how the CE-1 "stereo" feature works. Wet (modulated, vibrato-like) on one side, dry on the other.
Yes but not Univibe-style Vibrato. I tried that. It wasn't a chorus.
They did this with the VB-2 in another episode. I believe Dan ran a Paige>Tumnus>ABY split>VB-2 & Delay to wet amp.
Best tone ever.
@@mattgilbert7347 Univibe is not considerable a proper "Vibrato" because it's not just a wet (triangle or sine) modulated signal so that's fair.
As you say this could work better with a VB-2. Or if you hear just the wet side of the CE-1 it's just a vibrato :)
Check it out, I've set up the timecode, just click and it'll take you to the setup I mentioned.(NB it was a Broadcast, not a Paige). Best. Tone. Ever.
ruclips.net/video/KmFL_9g7nco/видео.html
@@WillGalluccio Good reason to invest in an inexpensive vibrato. Doesn't have to be a VB-2W like they used in that episode.
I'm just working on my rig to go wet/dry so your video is perfectly in time and very very informative as usual.. thanks! Being involved in this process I think there are a lot more details that could be discussed because of the number of ways you can do a wet/dry rig also if I realize that probably it would become very annoying for many people here so.. I just leave here a brief list of things that I'm taking into account for my rig as a trace for further discussions:
1) Using a WET/DRY rig with the DRY signal hitting both amps beside phase and isolation you must take into account the analog or digital dry-through of the pedals hitting just the wet amp as also with AD/DA delay of few msecs you will hear that bad "flanging" effect that will destroy all your dreams.
2) In WET/DRY rigs with KILL-DRY on the WET side, phase (and digital dry-through of course) is not an issue anymore as we don't have dry signal here and we will hear only delalyed repeats or reverb trails. On the other end the lack of dry signal makes very difficoult to handle multiple effects (as just a delay and a reverb) which should be processed in parallel for obvous reason (if run in series just the delay repeats can hit the reverb).
Using multi-fx digital rack units with internal routing possibilities running parallel can be easy but working with pedals can be really really tough and a lot of other stuff would be needed (and at the end of the road I wouldn't carry a second amp to leave it silent when I don't use delays.. ; ))
3) I'd like to use dry amp gain but my amp doesn't have an FX loop. Well I'm planning to get my WET signal post power amp (that's even better in my opinion) with some sort of line out box placed in the ampspeaker path but.. now I will have a LINE LEVEL signal hitting my first FX pedal so I must be sure if it can handle it.
Then after all the WET FXs I'm planning to go to an SS power amp but I must be sure that the INSTRUMENT level going out from my last pedal in the WET chain can drive it properly.. right?
4) Oh Lord.. I think it's enough.
What if I want to do Wet Wet Wet - will I need Marti Pellow...?! :-)
You put a Squier on the diagram!!
I thought my volume pedal can do the job, but... it have not phase reverse... so...
1) reverse the polarity on the dry amp
2) get some proper AYB box.
I really enjoy this episode and it is mega helpful. Thank you guys
Wet dry wet - the dog's run into the lake again
Made me smile in Canada :)
😂🤣😂
Some wet amps tend to smell equally canine.
Great video, like always.
For anyone trying to do WDW using an effects loop, an easy way to deal with phasing issues, an the headache of understanding the signal flow, is to use a multi-effects unit. I use an old POD HD500, that I bought used, to deal with the split after the effects send of my dry amp. I then use the stereo outs of the unit to go to the effects return of my wet amps.
Using an effects unit like this, gives you the option of also introducing "real" pedals in the units stero effects loop. This seems to also solve some of the issues I have had in the past, with pedals that reverse/inverse the phase after turning them on or off.
I should say, that because my dry amps send is line-level, I flip a switch on the POD making the signal coming out of the stereo outs also become line-level. This is mostly used when you go direct, but works really well in my situation as well. I don't know for sure, if making the signal line-level, is the reason it works so extremely well, as I haven't really tried not having it line-level, but after I started using an effects unit, I have had no issues with phasing or hum at all. Most units like this also have a switch or something to deal with grounding issues.
Another cool feature of most multi-effects units like this, is that you can control the volume level of each signal chain, as well as the overall volume of your wet amps. This is especially handy in my case, as my amps are mismatched in terms of wattage, and have no master volume control on any of them. (30 Watt Wet, 5 Watt dry, and 15 Watt Wet).
I don't know if any multi-effects units have analog through, but I personally don't really care too much about it in this case, as I use the wet amps 100% Wet anyway, and even if I didn't I don't think I would care either.
I hope this helps someone to get started with WDW through the effects loop, because the sound is glorious, and it doesn't have to be overly complicated. And for me, this way has helped me be able to understand how I would need to do it, if I were to use something other than a multi-effects unit to accomplish the same thing. And I might do so in the future, as the unit takes up alot of real-estate on my board, especially since I don't use alot of the built-in effects. But then again, it is a cool backup rig, when everything else fails. Hmm maybe I'll just get something similar, just much smaller, when they get older and cheaper on the used market.
Once you go WDW, the sound will haunt you ;)
I may have missed this in this video or a previous one, but how would you select which amp is wet and which is dry? I've always assumed that the wet amp would be the higher headroom amp so the delays, reverbs etc stay clean as possible, but when I've tried that I run into volume issues when kicking on a boost that drives the dry amp but just volume boosts the wet amp. Is it best to just have amps set up relatively similarly in terms of gain and treat the wet amp like you would in a single amp set up?
I think you just explained the issue I am having. I couldn’t figure it out! My wet amp gets too loud and the dynamics while recording are just unmanageable. I have an attenuator for the wet amp. I think I will attenuate it more so I start driving the wet amp sooner. That should fix it! Should also improve my tone even more! Thank you!
@@CandorBand how’d that work out for you?
@@CandorBand I’m using an ac30 and an ac10 for wet. Seems to even out.
Man, love you guys. I run a 2-amp wet-dry adaptation, in that my stereo reverb is run through the effects loops from each amp. Basically gain-split to dry-modulation/delays - then stereo reverb. Pure magic.
Can you please explain how I can achieve a wet/dry/wet set up using just one tube amp and then something like the GFI Cabzeus which has 2 independent speaker sim in & out. Is that possible & if so, would I still need phase switch & isolation if the wet Cabzeus ‘amps’ are virtual? Thanks. Joe Stivey (on my wife’s RUclips login 😁)
You can do Wet-Dry with one amp by using a Parallel Loop Pedal that has a mix control. Put your delay / reverb / flange in the loop and your dry signal will sit on top of these effects; dry guitar with phasing reverb tails for instance. The Carl Martin Paraloop pedal and the One Control Mosquite Blender are both good for this.
dproz Thanks mate but I don’t mean that. I mean sending dry to valve amp which is mic’d & sent to PA & 2x wet mix via GFI Cabzeus to PA. I don’t want my dry amp to have wet at all, even through the FX loop.
Wow ... I’ve just bought a humdinger to connect my two amps together.
What a difference this makes ( wet /dry ) , this is more than the sum of its parts.
My delay and reverb feel like they’ve come alive , wow
Ah, that’s awesome Dan 🤓👍
And this also proves that the Marshall is the greatest amp ever.
Still one of the best vids of all time
T-shirt idea. "I flip my phase when you turn me on." Maybe a pedal advert.
I can only imagine what that sounds like in the room......been waiting for this topic for a bit. Thank D&M!
It's funny.. People find this hard to understand. Seems straight forward to me.
Also loved the sound of the trem with all three amps it was amazing
Finally got around to watching the rest... It's a bit of an epic! Thank you. Re. Mick's comment on less inspirational tones, for me the tones that were there were all spot on and Dan's tone around the 58 min mark = awesome!
I don't see how wet/dry with a 100% wet amp is all that useful though... You can't have more than one effect in your wet signal, right? Because if you have a delay and a reverb, both set to "kill dry", then the delay will only have the repeats, and then the reverb will only add reverb to the repeats, and remove the actual repeats (since they're its dry signal). So... What gives? Any tricks? One amp per wet effect?
Correct me if I’m wrong here, but you could do it, but you would only have the “kill dry” on the last effect in the chain, then in theory you could have as many as you want
@@chrisj2155 That wouldn't help though. If you have a chorus, delay and reverb, and then kill the dry signal in the reverb, you will lose your chorus and your delay trails. The only thing you'd hear was a slightly more modulated and longer reverb trail. The chorus and delay would be the dry signal that the reverb pedal kills.
You don’t use kill dry in the wet amps. The original signal is in the wet amp as well.
To use the kill dry on the wet amps (the purist way) you need to run each of the post-split effects in parallel.
I just re-read what Eskimo asked properly. The way to do that is use kill dry on the delay and that will mean no dry signal gets through to the reverb pedal after it. That would give you a workable wet/dry...
Very interesting show indeed! One way do the wet/dry/wet rig (especially when using a low headroom-no effect loop kind of amp) is to capture the signal from the main amp with a microphone in front of the speaker, and send this to a little mixing desk, then to power amp with the wet effects. I think Jeff Beck used to do that at one point with his little pro junior.
Are you going to talk about that G&L at some point?
wow, great stuff here...can't wait to experiment with this concept...still a bit foggy on the 'phase' concept you were speaking of between each amp...but i suppose i'll stumble onto it along the way....thanks again guys, your demonstrations and chats are pure gold!
5:46 Dan is officially master of the Mannequin Challenge
I legit thought the video was buffering!
😂
Hahaha thats a great comment
One of my favorite live players was a “no effects” purist. He went straight into two old Fender amps bridged; one smaller watt combo with reverb and a larger watt tweed style “BIG”. Amazing tone. He could get many, many tones with his guitar volume. Essentially, a basic version of this technique.
Plain cake vs. layered cake with frosting!
Basically his amp set up was the effect. :P
Chalk and day.....night and cheese
Sounds like a new t shirt design
Don't forget apples and oranges
I love the pedal demos, but this is one of the best vids yet! I learned allot. Really well done with the diagrams and explanations lads 👌🏼
The dB meter is just for reference people. Get over the placement of the dB meter. :-)
You gents are the salt-of-the-earth! My first TPS episode was the one about small amps; and it helped me pull the trigger on a Fender Blues Jr. for my at-home, practice amp. I am so glad I discovered your channel. It was the first channel to which I subscribed!
I have faithfully journeyed down the rabbit hole with you, and have built some humble pedal boards with your advice. I have explored wet-dry, and wet-dry-wet setups.
While this has been an expensive journey, it has sparked a passion for tone, and helped me shake off the fear/anxiety of making a mistake. Thanks so much for helping me take risks, and more freely explore sounds.
I don’t understand the comments about the videos being too long; I would watch them if they were twice as long. When you guys get on a roll, I bust a gut laughing along with you. The jokes and levity are the highlights of my week.
I have two question at this point:
General question:
Do you have any preferred retailers in Canada. Do you have any? I have experienced some elitist attitudes at music stores, big and small. Their attitude tends to change a bit when you pull out some cash, though. Shouldn’t be that way.
Specific question for this episode: Where would you place a Wah pedal in a wet-dry-wet, or simple wet-dry setup?
Cheers, gushill.
Based on my research from other youtube channel, forum, etc. best is to put it align with the dry signal (before drive section or preferably) and before the buffer pedal (if you have one) so it’ll only go through dry amp.
I try and run wet/dry but it often turns into a mess on my board. I can do it, even if I have to write it out like an idiot. The worst time was when I was given 3 hours to "find another distortion pedal and a flanger because I want to DI you to two channels"
WTF? Why did I need a distortion AFTER my cab sim/IR? And my flanger goes before gain, or if wet/dry, into the wet amp. I tried to explain that it would mean rebuilding my entire board and he said: "just get a splitter". I have one ofc, a god ABY - but that's not the point. He doesn't understand wet/dry, this bandleader, he wanted to make one channel even more distorted and wet and then leave the other channel with my regular gain and mods. I can do it with amps - but I struggle doing it DI at the best of times - but this was a nightmare!
Ok, rant over.
You guys made a fairly complex concept very easy to understand. Thanks!