FX LOOP BUFFERS (turn your passive FX Loop into an active one) Vertex Boost MKII: bit.ly/3fIRxQa Kleinulator: www.therigdr.com/products/the... Fuchs Plush FX Loop Buffer: www.adorama.com/pftubefxloop.... MANUFACTURERS WITH GREAT FX LOOPS Rivera: www.rivera.com Mesa Boogie: www.mesaboogie.com Suhr: www.suhr.com Fuchs: fuchsaudiotechnology.com Friedman: friedmanamplification.com Custom Audio: bit.ly/3fNZ2p4
Very informative (as always) and cool that you have demystified what & how the FX loop works. Any chance y'all could make a short video about using a clean boost in the loop as a quasi attenuator? (Lots of talk but not much fact about doing this)
This is the first video that explained the fact that you don't need to use the FX loop if you're keeping the amp clean and using overdrive pedals. Thank you! That clears it up for me.
A very well spoken young man who doesn't uhhh and ummm his way s.l.o.w.l.y through the entire damn video. And he knows his shit too!! Perfect combination 👍 subscribed....
I really appreciate you taking the time to make this video. I’m sure at some point I will understand it. That day is not today but I was able to figure out how to actually play this video which I will count as a win🤙🤘
Man , that cleared up the of the BS ive been told about this topic. My Prinston doesn't have an FX Loop because it doesn't need one. Ive had guys tell me I made a mistake buying it, evan though it sounds fantastic. You just cleared the air. If the overdrive is coming from a pedal then you don't need a loop. THANK YOU....
Mason these videos are absolutely fantastic 👏 full of really great information and I've fixed issues with my own Big pedalboard thanks to these videos 👍🏼
Thanks, Mason. I found it helpful. Especially since I was planning surgery (converting passive loop to active) and now can consider using a outboard add-on instead.
Wow, this was fantastic! Didn't realize there was so much about effects loops, thankfully the one in my amp is active even though I never thought to check for it before
subbing this channel right now! 3 things i've learned from this are 1) there's ALOT i don't know. 2) the sweet sweet sound i get from my amp, i found by happy accident. 3) i'm going to need to watch this video at least one more time to fully understand all that you laid out. if there was such a thing as a "tone course" or class, it would be highly beneficial, and you'd be a great teacher.
Thank you so much for clearing that up for me. I set up my pedal board to run through a PA and when I experimented with my amp at home trying to use the effects loop it sounded better just running it though the amp and not through the loop. Now I feel better knowing why. Great tutorial!
Really enjoy your show. The only thing I run through my effects loop is a noise gate / suppressor. This way my delay, reverb units are not affected by the noise gate / suppressor. I don't run a 15:29 big pedal board and have only one pedal ( overdrive ) that is a little on the noisy side. I've always run my pedals in front of the amp.
Love your channel. I have one critique. Please get rid of the annoying "pop" sounds. Please! It distracts from what your saying and, in my situation, forces me to lower the volume because the "pop" volume is louder than your voice.
Great talk, Mason! I actually have an old 2 channel amp that has separate passive send/returns for the clean and OD channels. I had a Moss at Brown Note (long gone...) build me a single rack space, DOUBLE Dumble-ator device, so that I'd have one for each side of the amp. It's tube based, and works wonders with maintaining my tone.
I have a MXR micro amp in my effects loop, great for a volume boost without adding any drive, also I like tremolo and chorus in the loop but phaser in the front, I have one reverb in the loop and a crazy hall reverb in the front. Do whatever you want really, I tried like 20 combos before I found what I wanted.
And then a light came on! This video was VERY helpful in getting me to understand I don't need to include an FX loop in my single-channel, pedal platform amp build! :D 😂
I appreciate your videos and catch them when I can. As usual, there is a lot of good information here. I have a few (very) basic questions: I have an older Fender Concert amp with the buffered effects loop. I assume that is not a solid state loop, but if you would, please confirm. And I also assume, based on the video, that I should use that effects loop for time based effects, but not for my compressor, distortion and EQ pedals. Thanks again for your insightful videos!
An amazing video! You should really do a video compare of a passive effects loop and long cables versus an amplifier with an active buffered loop and the same long cable setup. Also dive more into the Klein-ulator. I don't see many RUclips videos about it. I just bought one and it's solved my tube amp buzzing issue. I'll be doing a video on that soon.
@@VertexEffectsInc agreed. My Peavey VB-2 has the same flaw as the ValveKing amps where there is a buzz with the master vume at 0 or 5, but all the way up at 10. It is because since there is no buffer in the loop, those high impedance resistors in it couple with the volume pot and pickup stray noise. Jumpering the loop bypasses those resistors and eliminates the noise. The Kleinulator does the same by loading down the loop to low impedance eliminating the noise.
Thank you Mason, this was very helpful! I have a line level passive effects loop and was looking at something like the Kleinulator but just moved my reverb/delay to the end of my chain going straight into my amp b/c I just run my amp clean anyways. i prefer this so i can plug my board into whatever and keep my tone as opposed to depending on the dirty channel from my particular amp... so ultimately you almost sold me a Kleinulator but by the end of the video you made me realize I have no need for the effects loop entirely... THANK YOU!
@@VertexEffectsInc Mason, I have to tell you, this one helped me get rid of a buzz in my chain after a lo-o-ong time. Now I realy understand how's and why's, and I have a consequent preset now between gain via pedal or the IRT amp itself, and even the Swedisch chainsaw combination of amp and the HM2. For the rest very nice delay swells and reverbs and again combinations with the gain. Compression only in rare occasions, I rather play with intonation. Where and when do you use compression or can you recommand one of your clips about that topic? (boss cp-1x is the one at the start of my chain) Kind regards from Belgium
I have a Elmwood Modena m60 (which is easily the best and most flexible amp I’ve ever owned in 30 years of playing) and it has a series/parallel tube buffered loop. It’s the best loop I’ve ever used cuz I love running my time based pedals blended with the dry tone. But it doesn’t have volume pots for send and return. It only has a series/parallel dry/wet pot. I usually run it about 50% wet/dry and it’s dead quiet. Thanks for the vid
My Revv G20 has a wonderful buffered FX loop. Seems like Orange uses nice buffered loops on some amps too; the loop on my wife's Crush Bass 50 drives a DI box like a champ!
The education I needed 👍🤘 I run a clean amp so no loop for me. Good thing cuz my amp doesn’t have one 😄. I was thinking of adding one. You just saved me a ton of headache.
I play jazz w/archtops. I just bought Quilters DirectAmp to go directly into the boards at Festivals. I have a simple rig: Poloy Tune in to guitar input, MXR Tremolo, and Boss RV-6 stereo into the effects loop. Do I need a second buffer? I've been adjusting the gain on the Tremolo to match the DirectAmp without the loop engaged.
Great video as usual Mason I’ve been using FX lives for years and I agree there’s good ones bad ones and maybe stuff in between in the better amps I’ve had to have better effects loops… But what about those of us who predominantly play on a worship band and have to go direct… Not using an amplifier at all. Are used to use a two notes Le-Clean which had a effects loop build in no questioning how good it was but it seemed good but you couldn’t control any kind of levels on it so I don’t know… Now I’m acoustic rig I use a Radial Tonebone PZ Pre, seems to be a really good quality effects loop. Now for my electric rig the brains of it is a Stroman iridium… No effects loop not sure how to handle that
Every video on this channel is suuuper informative and helpful, but this one in particular was a lifesaver. Thanks for the awesome video! It would be sick if you could get your hands on a fender engine room and shed some light on its pros and cons. 12 outputs at 500ma at $250 seems amazing
what is cool you tube and your vedioes I wonder how many music stores have lost guitar instructors and me when I get info from RUclips I alway send some cash when I have it I think it's the way to say thanks for getting info for free if I had youtube and a cell back in the day >would be in Nashville or playing a/the whisky a gogo I would of probly been one of the band members of the Greatfull Dead why I say this? because finally I get it the language of music..
You mention how a lot of modulation effects should be in front of the preamp and I totally agree for phase and univibes and chorus but I still prefer flange in the loop post the preamp stage. Sometimes I'll put a chorus there too, but usually leave that out front.
I think about a lot of the classical sounds that we base our preference off of for effects like chorus, Flange, etc. Guys like EVH, Andy Summers, The Cure, etc. All those were in front of an amplifier. It's preferential, no "Right Way" but I typically recognize those effects more in that position and generally they're used more clean than dirty anyway.
@@VertexEffectsInc except Cobain used chorus straight in front of a dirty amp and as you said EVH used everything into a cranked Marshall, people think too much about it instead of just going with their ears. Keep up the good work demystifying this stuff for people just getting into it, there’s a lot of people on forums who have opinions without basis.
Hello Mason. I'll never get tired to thank for your videos. I would like to make a very important question for me. If I want to use: compressor (for limiting peaks of my Hot Rod Deville), graphic Eq, reverb, delays, volume box and a booster, in what order should I place them? Thanks in advance
@@HAHb-zc2dp I read it quite a while ago, just after buying the amp. I’ve been plugging pedals in directly to the front, but I’m wanting more control and dimension.
I was looking up "for" and "while" loops and think video came up... I watched it again, because its been awhile since i seen this. speaking of which, i want another phaser.
Outstanding presentation!!! My quest to go from a digital effects processor (GNX 3) to stomp boxes had me doing research prior to purchasing any effects boxes. It turns out my Marshall AVT 275's effects loop is set up to run in parallel. My first three stomp boxes that I am wanting to purchase are a phaser and chorus in front of the amp and an echoplex in the loop. But looking at the echoplex and other delay pedals there doesn't seem to be a sensitivity knob. There is an effects loop "mix " knob on the front of the amp, which according to the manual is used to "increase the amount of effect you hear"..... I just wonder if I'm wasting my money on the echoplex or any pedal that I decide to put in the loop without it having a sensitivity knob..... I am already considering adding reverb to the loop chain after this initial set up. Thank you again for your great channel.
Typically with a parallel fx loop you'll run the wet effects in the loop 100% wet and then mix that with the dry signal with some sort of blend control on the amp itself.
Curious about something. I have always seen Compressors in front of the pre on a tube amp, but I know many blues players who like to have the pre set to edge of breakup. Play light and it is clean and dig in and get the crunch. If a compressor is in front, it seems like that limits the dynamic range of soft to loud hitting the pre, depending on how low the threshold is set and how much compression is used. In this situation, if you had a proper level FX loop, would a compressor make sense at the beginning of the FX loop to make up some gain of the volume difference between strumming lightly and strumming harder. It might seem counterintuitive to the guitarist since you assume it will get quieter when you strum lighter, but it seems like having the ability to have a more consistent volume and just altering your attack on the strings would be helpful. I am not saying the gentle picking should be as loud as a full hard strum, but compressing some of the dynamics, after the pre has done its thing with regard to dirt, would bring up the volume of the softer strumming that is clean to be closer to the volume of the harder strumming that gets dirtier in the pre. Does this make sense? I am going to do some experimenting, but I only have an old GNX1 that has a compressor, so probably not the greatest test subject.
Hi Mason, as always your videos are worth every second! I'd like to ask a question hoping that you can help me! I bought a 40w point to point tube amp second hand ( a D'Angelo one) that has an effects loop with a pot on the back; the person who sold me it said a couple of strange things about the loop in this amp: it's an active one ( ok); It doesn't sit between preamp and power amp but it is a part of the preamp ( what? Is this possible?); it's not meant to be used with pedals but just with "always on" effects like delays and reverbs ( it could make sense); it's an unusual fx loop because it runs in series but sometimes switches to parallel and the other way around ( what???). I tried a delay through it and it was fine except for the "popping" sound when engaging or disengaging ( solved with a dc filter). I also tried to jump it with a patch cable and the knob acts like some sort of master volume or volume box, from zero to full, ( even with delays in the loop it doesn'control the mix of the effect but still the volume). I've also tried a volume box in the loop, the jhs little black box, and the sound is as quite identical as the jumped loop.I'll appreciate to know what you think about it ( obviously up to where is possible without seeing the amp or the schematics!). Thanks a lot🙏
Excellent information!!!!! I have a Fender Twin Reverb and a Marshall 410. So now you have clarified why things can sound good or bad. So for the Fender I don't use the effects loop which is great. But pedal order is still important. I have to experiment with my Marshall. I have the Echo Plex Delay and Hall of Fame pedals on the Effects loop. In front of the amp they just cut everything out. However I have an Electric Mistress Flanger and Chorus combo pedal that sounds ok in the loop but I should try in front of the amp. I guess if it was good enough for Eddie it should be good for me?!!!!!
There are preferential difference here. Some like Mod in the loop...I don't personally. When I think about guys like Andy Summers and their EHX Electric Mistress sound I think "why do it any different"???
@@VertexEffectsInc Wow...I just experimented with my Electric Mistress Flanger/Chorus pedal in front of the amp. What a difference!!!! Yeah ...it definitely gives me the Andy Summers sound even though I have a Japanese Strat!!!!! Thanks for the information...I am now jamming out on Roxanne and Message in a Bottle much better!!!!
Love these videos, Mason, but man, PLEASE lose that popping sound when graphics appear on screen. Really annoying and unnecessary. We can see when they pop up. Other than that, great videos! Thanks for all you do. I just ordered a Mk II Vertex Boost.
Hello! You are right about Boss pedals.I have just taken off 3 of them off my pedalboard and my tone came back. It seems the only one working fine in front of the amp and in the effects loop are the Waza Craft type.I guess they have good buffer 1M/100K.Same as the EQ Devices. By plugging and unplugging the return of the effects loop for comparison gave me a proof of what Boss pedals can do to a guitar tone.Too many will suck tone.They were replaced by EQ Devices.. It seems now they all talk to one and other properly on the pedalboard. Thx and have a good life!
I have a Quilter Superblock US. But I cannot find info on if the effects loop is buffered or active..do you know? Additionally, what do you think about me putting the Superblock on my pedal board and running a speaker cable to my cabinet? Does that need a buffer? I wanted everything in one place and am trying to avoid power cable spaghetti. Finally, THANK YOU for all of this incredible content. We're lucky to have access to your incredible expertise-very grateful.
Not sure how they're doing it. Maybe email them. Also, since it's pedalboard based it may not be that much of a problem anyway since the cables are so short.
Great vid! I run a Line 6 HXFX with a 2004 JCM 2000 DSL 50 and I use its effects loop with 4cm. Each of the 4 cables is 22' long. I definitely experience tone loss using the HXFX into the effects loop. Is the Kleinulator what I need to correct this? I LOVE my amp and the HXFX on their own, but, together they are more rrama than the Kardashians. Thanks for your advice!
I actually have an example of a time when you would want to use an effects loop even though you are using pedal distortion into a clean amp: when you have a parallel effects loop (in my case, I use a Boss Katana Artist MKii, which can switch to serial or parallel), and you want to use a different amp (In my case, a 1979 Peavey Classic 100 combo 50w 2x12) for wet signals. I run the Boss effects output into a Tone City Tape Machine delay pedal, and the output from the delay pedal is ran into the Peavey input. Then I use the Peavey's onboard reverb and trem, which I'm able to really crank to a level I couldn't dream of if I were using a dry signal in the Peavey or trying to use the Katana's onboard reverb or trem. Anyway it's a poor man's wet/dry setup. My signal chain is Ram's Head Big Muff Pi nano into Xotic USA E.P. Booster into no-name Klon clone from Wish into Arion Tubulator into Boss BD-2 Blues Driver into Tone City Comp Engine compressor into Tone City Golden Plexi distortion into the Boss Katana's clean channel. I usually use the booster pedal and blues driver for the Les Paul and the Klon for the Strat, and everything but the Big Muff has the drive all the way down. If you read this far, you get an attaboy. Point is, it's unconventional but sounds epic and yuge.
@@VertexEffectsInc Yes true. I have to use the effects send for the wet because I am using the line out to send to the Tascam Model 24 for both PA signal and as an interface. I record the input signal from the Boss as well as the room mic channels and the hall mic channel, so I can choose how saturated the final guitar signal is (usually hardly at all, but it's there if-and-when I need it). It's interesting: when practicing I like plenty of bigness and multiple delays and multiple reverbs, but when I record a song and do post-production, I invariable end up editing all that washy, time-based stuff out.
I added an EB Tech Line Level shifter to get the levels right on the loop of my Randall RT100 after I got an ES-8. Now it's great, but it was driving me crazy after I got it and couldn't figure out what was wrong and I couldn't find anything in the ES-8 to change those levels.
That would only solve the issue of the line level, not the fact that it needs a buffer still. Some of the pedals can't even take -10 and will need -20 to not clip.
Well in those two different contexts they are better at two different jobs. So you'd never stick an eq in front of your input if you wanted a very functional Eq over you global sound. However you would if you wanted to boost or shape you guitar tone and even push it into extra distortion. Adding an EQ in the loop is a better solution for global eqing of your sound before it goes out of your speakers or as a clean boost for volume only. You'd never use an EQ in the loop for a distortion boost for example. So both good depending on what job you want the eq to fulfill.
Hi Maxon. Please forgive my ignorance. I have a question for you. I understand that my amp (Hot Rod Deville ML) one exactly like the one in your video, has an External Effects Loop built in, also a Preamp Out option and a Power Amp In as well. I've purchased The Sheriff Pedal Preamp, but I'm not sure how to connect it to my amp. According to Victory, the best way to use the Sheriff is from the pedal's Loop input to the amp's Effects Loop send and from the pedal's Loop output to the amp's Effects Loop return, but I've noticed that my amp only has one external Effects Loop. Does this mean I can't use the pedal this way, which Victory say is the most recommended? Thank you in advance for your time. looking very forward to your reply. 🙏🙏
How familiar are you with the HX Stomp effects loop? I want to run my drives in it so I can put the expression in front of them for pitch shifters, vol, and wah.
What if your using some gain from the amp for your clean sound. I have a Fender hotrod Deluxe tube amp. I like using just a touch of gain with my clean sound?
This is highly educating! I can't get enough of these videos! Question, I experience tone suck when I put my ods in the fx loop of my Line6 HX stomp. How can I fix it? Thanks!
I'm so glad! Could be the settings inside the HX, could be how your connecting them or could be the impedances not matching up well. Do the OD's sound different run into the front of the HX?
@@VertexEffectsInc Thank you so much for the reply! I tried a few different things such as playing with the impedance in the HX, I connect the first od in the chain to the send and the last to the return all via patch cables, I should say I don't use buffers at the start or at the end, but I don't normally experience tone suck when I plug them in the amp, so yeah, te ods do sound different when in the fx loop.
So given that you want to put time based effects after the distortion generating gain stage, what if a guitar player was trying to push for power amp distortion instead of pre amp distortion? If I were to use the FX loop in that context, wouldn't I be facing the same issue as putting a reverb in front of a distorting pre amp? Would that mean that I need to mic up the amp without the reverb and run the signal through an outboard FX unit instead? (or more practically nowadays, I'd probably be driving the power amp hard but running the speaker out into a loadbox such as a Torpedo Captor X, after which I can run the line out signal into a time-based FX unit then. Would that be your advice? Thanks!
@@VertexEffectsInc I don't like it myself, but it sounds good. Distortion compensates the degrading treble of each delay trail, amazing coincidence. Pretty standard sound in shoegaze or post-rock.
I have a Mesa Boogie Fillmore 50 head. It has a buffered/active effects loop, so can I assume that the 20’ cable run from the effects loop Send TO my pedal board (delay and reverb only with other effects on the front end rather than in the loop)? If so, do I still need a buffer after the reverb (last time based effect) before the 20’ cable going back to the loop return on my amp? Even with a buffered pedal I assume a quality buffer will give me better results than just trusting the pedal’s buffer. This is a great video! Your info is very comprehensive and well presented. Well done! Thanks!!
Appreciate this video so much! So if you have a clean preamp on the amp head (lots of headroom, not really gonna distort or you get your distortion from pedals) then the fx loop is basically useless. Just run everything to the front of the amp.
I bought the Kleinulator....I hope it works. I have a Marshall dsl40cr and the effects loop does not work great with boss pedals. It has one of those effects loops with no send/return volume. You lose volume and treble. It's really irritating that these companies cannot have a bit more transparency in regards to effects loops on amps and pedals. For instance, labelling them specifically for Line level or guitar level would do wonders in the information before you buy it.
@@VertexEffectsInc If it does then I'd say this pedal literally saved the year for me. It's so irritating having an amp that sounds decent only to be completely thrown under the bus with effects loop problems.
Mason, what about having your amp on the "edge of breakup" as opposed to full-on distortion? Would that still qualify as preamp overdrive and a reason to buy the kleinulater? Those pops were off the charts today! Lol
Depends on whether it's preamp or power amp distortion. If you're using a non-master volume amp and running it at break-up it's all power amp distortion if a pedal isn't hitting it to do the break up. If you have a master volume amp it's perhaps more pre-amp distortion depending on the design and may not be involving the power amp distortion in that case. If the preamp is generating the distortion, the effects loop is important. If the power amp is doing it, you'll have to experiment as it can depend.
FX LOOP BUFFERS (turn your passive FX Loop into an active one)
Vertex Boost MKII: bit.ly/3fIRxQa
Kleinulator: www.therigdr.com/products/the...
Fuchs Plush FX Loop Buffer: www.adorama.com/pftubefxloop....
MANUFACTURERS WITH GREAT FX LOOPS
Rivera: www.rivera.com
Mesa Boogie: www.mesaboogie.com
Suhr: www.suhr.com
Fuchs: fuchsaudiotechnology.com
Friedman: friedmanamplification.com
Custom Audio: bit.ly/3fNZ2p4
Thanks for posting these reminders ... I always learn something from your videos
@@WayneMemphisMojo 🙏🙏🙏
Can't wait for this.
Very informative (as always) and cool that you have demystified what & how the FX loop works. Any chance y'all could make a short video about using a clean boost in the loop as a quasi attenuator? (Lots of talk but not much fact about doing this)
"typical all of them are gonne b serial loops"
Great, now im hungry
This is the first video that explained the fact that you don't need to use the FX loop if you're keeping the amp clean and using overdrive pedals. Thank you! That clears it up for me.
A very well spoken young man who doesn't uhhh and ummm his way s.l.o.w.l.y through the entire damn video. And he knows his shit too!! Perfect combination 👍 subscribed....
I really appreciate you taking the time to make this video. I’m sure at some point I will understand it. That day is not today but I was able to figure out how to actually play this video which I will count as a win🤙🤘
Man , that cleared up the of the BS ive been told about this topic.
My Prinston doesn't have an FX Loop because it doesn't need one.
Ive had guys tell me I made a mistake buying it, evan though it sounds fantastic.
You just cleared the air.
If the overdrive is coming from a pedal then you don't need a loop.
THANK YOU....
This quite literally answered all of my questions, and solved all of my problems. Thank you!
Wow! Thanks!
Mason these videos are absolutely fantastic 👏 full of really great information and I've fixed issues with my own Big pedalboard thanks to these videos 👍🏼
Glad to help!
This chanel is the university of youtube pedal chanels, so good!!! Thanks
🙏🙏🙏
You are not just a rig dr but a rig professor. you explain very very well!
I appreciate that!
This is a great video on fx loops. No one else covers it this well that I've come across...
Thanks, Mason. I found it helpful. Especially since I was planning surgery (converting passive loop to active) and now can consider using a outboard add-on instead.
This was Excellent.
I'm so glad you dig it!
Wow, this was fantastic! Didn't realize there was so much about effects loops, thankfully the one in my amp is active even though I never thought to check for it before
Glad it helped!
This channel is so good, right to the point and very well explained.
Glad you think so!
I Agree Alex. I've learned alot from Mason. Great source of information on this channel. oNe LovE from NYC
@@michael_caz_nyc thanks bro!
subbing this channel right now! 3 things i've learned from this are 1) there's ALOT i don't know. 2) the sweet sweet sound i get from my amp, i found by happy accident. 3) i'm going to need to watch this video at least one more time to fully understand all that you laid out. if there was such a thing as a "tone course" or class, it would be highly beneficial, and you'd be a great teacher.
Thank you for this information. I was wondering about the distortion and the loops.
Brilliant presentation!...Thanks Mason you're my hero. Now I understand!
Glad to help!
Awesome, best FX Loop 101 vlog out there, thank you!
Glad you liked it!
Thank you so much for clearing that up for me. I set up my pedal board to run through a PA and when I experimented with my amp at home trying to use the effects loop it sounded better just running it though the amp and not through the loop.
Now I feel better knowing why.
Great tutorial!
Super clear. Thank you. It made so much sense. Well done chaps!
Love this! Been using the effects loop on my Boss Katana 100 this year. Great to know more about it from the Rig Doctor!
Very cool!
Really enjoy your show. The only thing I run through my effects loop is a noise gate / suppressor. This way my delay, reverb units are not affected by the noise gate / suppressor. I don't run a 15:29 big pedal board and have only one pedal ( overdrive ) that is a little on the noisy side. I've always run my pedals in front of the amp.
Love your channel.
I have one critique. Please get rid of the annoying "pop" sounds.
Please!
It distracts from what your saying and, in my situation, forces me to lower the volume because the "pop" volume is louder than your voice.
Great talk, Mason! I actually have an old 2 channel amp that has separate passive send/returns for the clean and OD channels. I had a Moss at Brown Note (long gone...) build me a single rack space, DOUBLE Dumble-ator device, so that I'd have one for each side of the amp. It's tube based, and works wonders with maintaining my tone.
That's a great idea!
I have a MXR micro amp in my effects loop, great for a volume boost without adding any drive, also I like tremolo and chorus in the loop but phaser in the front, I have one reverb in the loop and a crazy hall reverb in the front. Do whatever you want really, I tried like 20 combos before I found what I wanted.
Best video on the subject I've found. Thanks.
Wow, thanks!
And then a light came on! This video was VERY helpful in getting me to understand I don't need to include an FX loop in my single-channel, pedal platform amp build! :D 😂
I appreciate your videos and catch them when I can. As usual, there is a lot of good information here.
I have a few (very) basic questions: I have an older Fender Concert amp with the buffered effects loop. I assume that is not a solid state loop, but if you would, please confirm. And I also assume, based on the video, that I should use that effects loop for time based effects, but not for my compressor, distortion and EQ pedals.
Thanks again for your insightful videos!
JHS pedals brought up a great idea about using a volume pedal in effects loop to crank the preamp but control loudness!
I wish he'd talked about impedance though. You need to have the right volume pedal to work properly here or it won't work that great.
@@VertexEffectsInc never thought of that. Thanks for pointing out!
Incredible knowledge… you may be the only person who is able to explain this logically… sounds so simple now
Thanks so much!!!
An amazing video! You should really do a video compare of a passive effects loop and long cables versus an amplifier with an active buffered loop and the same long cable setup.
Also dive more into the Klein-ulator. I don't see many RUclips videos about it. I just bought one and it's solved my tube amp buzzing issue. I'll be doing a video on that soon.
Good call...would be good to see how much it impacts the tone.
@@VertexEffectsInc agreed. My Peavey VB-2 has the same flaw as the ValveKing amps where there is a buzz with the master vume at 0 or 5, but all the way up at 10.
It is because since there is no buffer in the loop, those high impedance resistors in it couple with the volume pot and pickup stray noise. Jumpering the loop bypasses those resistors and eliminates the noise. The Kleinulator does the same by loading down the loop to low impedance eliminating the noise.
Thank you Mason, this was very helpful! I have a line level passive effects loop and was looking at something like the Kleinulator but just moved my reverb/delay to the end of my chain going straight into my amp b/c I just run my amp clean anyways. i prefer this so i can plug my board into whatever and keep my tone as opposed to depending on the dirty channel from my particular amp... so ultimately you almost sold me a Kleinulator but by the end of the video you made me realize I have no need for the effects loop entirely... THANK YOU!
Sure thing!
Dude! This one is very nice to learn and understand your gear inside out. +1 sub!
Awesome, thank you!
@@VertexEffectsInc Mason, I have to tell you, this one helped me get rid of a buzz in my chain after a lo-o-ong time. Now I realy understand how's and why's, and I have a consequent preset now between gain via pedal or the IRT amp itself, and even the Swedisch chainsaw combination of amp and the HM2. For the rest very nice delay swells and reverbs and again combinations with the gain. Compression only in rare occasions, I rather play with intonation. Where and when do you use compression or can you recommand one of your clips about that topic? (boss cp-1x is the one at the start of my chain) Kind regards from Belgium
Killer in depth explanation, very nice
🙏🙏🙏 thanks for watching!
Ooh Boy....NOTHING is as ever "simple" as it may seem. Thank You for the Warnings Sir.
You are very welcome
I am still in the add preview but this channel is the greatest about pedalstuff.😂😍
Wow, thanks!
I like my Big Muff in the loop so I can send preamp overdrive into it, sounds killer.
Great explanation !!!
Glad it helped!
I have a Elmwood Modena m60 (which is easily the best and most flexible amp I’ve ever owned in 30 years of playing) and it has a series/parallel tube buffered loop. It’s the best loop I’ve ever used cuz I love running my time based pedals blended with the dry tone. But it doesn’t have volume pots for send and return. It only has a series/parallel dry/wet pot. I usually run it about 50% wet/dry and it’s dead quiet. Thanks for the vid
Nice! Thanks for watching!
My Revv G20 has a wonderful buffered FX loop. Seems like Orange uses nice buffered loops on some amps too; the loop on my wife's Crush Bass 50 drives a DI box like a champ!
You've mentioned in several videos about the length of the guitar cable and how it affects your tone. What if you use a wireless system, which I do?
Finally I could understand fx loop. great video
Thanks Doc I feel better already
🥳🥳🥳🙏🙏🙏
Very educating. Thank you Uncle Mason
Thanks for watching!
The education I needed 👍🤘
I run a clean amp so no loop for me. Good thing cuz my amp doesn’t have one 😄. I was thinking of adding one. You just saved me a ton of headache.
I play jazz w/archtops. I just bought Quilters DirectAmp to go directly into the boards at Festivals. I have a simple rig: Poloy Tune in to guitar input, MXR Tremolo, and Boss RV-6 stereo into the effects loop. Do I need a second buffer? I've been adjusting the gain on the Tremolo to match the DirectAmp without the loop engaged.
Great video as usual Mason I’ve been using FX lives for years and I agree there’s good ones bad ones and maybe stuff in between in the better amps I’ve had to have better effects loops… But what about those of us who predominantly play on a worship band and have to go direct… Not using an amplifier at all. Are used to use a two notes Le-Clean which had a effects loop build in no questioning how good it was but it seemed good but you couldn’t control any kind of levels on it so I don’t know… Now I’m acoustic rig I use a Radial Tonebone PZ Pre, seems to be a really good quality effects loop. Now for my electric rig the brains of it is a Stroman iridium… No effects loop not sure how to handle that
Watch our video with Mitch Gallagher at Sweetwater on their channel on building an ampless rig. Lots of good info :)
Every video on this channel is suuuper informative and helpful, but this one in particular was a lifesaver. Thanks for the awesome video! It would be sick if you could get your hands on a fender engine room and shed some light on its pros and cons. 12 outputs at 500ma at $250 seems amazing
Thanks for watching. I reached out to Fender, no response.
With their history of appreciating vintage, they’re probably on windows 98 and have not had a chance to respond. Lol. Hopefully they reach out soon
wow thank you just want to add a little reverb with a cheap reverb pedal to my 1watt amp.
Cool!
what is cool you tube and your vedioes I wonder how many music stores have lost guitar instructors and me when I get info from RUclips I alway send some cash when I have it I think it's the way to say thanks for getting info for free if I had youtube and a cell back in the day >would be in Nashville or playing a/the whisky a gogo I would of probly been one of the band members of the Greatfull Dead why I say this? because finally I get it the language of music..
You mention how a lot of modulation effects should be in front of the preamp and I totally agree for phase and univibes and chorus but I still prefer flange in the loop post the preamp stage. Sometimes I'll put a chorus there too, but usually leave that out front.
I think about a lot of the classical sounds that we base our preference off of for effects like chorus, Flange, etc. Guys like EVH, Andy Summers, The Cure, etc. All those were in front of an amplifier. It's preferential, no "Right Way" but I typically recognize those effects more in that position and generally they're used more clean than dirty anyway.
@@VertexEffectsInc except Cobain used chorus straight in front of a dirty amp and as you said EVH used everything into a cranked Marshall, people think too much about it instead of just going with their ears. Keep up the good work demystifying this stuff for people just getting into it, there’s a lot of people on forums who have opinions without basis.
Awesome Job! I am going to set up a consultation with you guys. Great Video!
I appreciate your videos. You make this stuff make sense, even for a drummer like me!
Thanks for watching!
What do you think about using a noise gate thru the loop? Wouldn’t that cut down on the loud hiss on dirty channels?
Hello Mason. I'll never get tired to thank for your videos. I would like to make a very important question for me. If I want to use: compressor (for limiting peaks of my Hot Rod Deville), graphic Eq, reverb, delays, volume box and a booster, in what order should I place them? Thanks in advance
Watch our advanced signal path video
Thank U! Learned so much from your vids. ReMapping my set-ups, this info is crucial. I feel smarter now LOL
SUPERB TEACHER. New sub here. Congratulations on a great job
Welcome aboard!
Great vid, thanks. I’ve got a Roland BC-60 with send/return controls on the loop, I’m looking forward to some experimenting.
Have you read the.manual for the unit?
@@HAHb-zc2dp I read it quite a while ago, just after buying the amp. I’ve been plugging pedals in directly to the front, but I’m wanting more control and dimension.
Great video, wish I had this knowledge back when I started!
Glad it was helpful!
Would love to see a demo of that Klienulator. Maybe include how to incorporate it into a board with a switcher?
You would just treat it like any 4CM set up. Any active loop buffer lives at the amp side, not pedalboard.
Awesome video!! Good job dude!!
Thanks for watching!
I was looking up "for" and "while" loops and think video came up... I watched it again, because its been awhile since i seen this. speaking of which, i want another phaser.
Hope it helps!
Outstanding presentation!!! My quest to go from a digital effects processor (GNX 3) to stomp boxes had me doing research prior to purchasing any effects boxes. It turns out my Marshall AVT 275's effects loop is set up to run in parallel. My first three stomp boxes that I am wanting to purchase are a phaser and chorus in front of the amp and an echoplex in the loop. But looking at the echoplex and other delay pedals there doesn't seem to be a sensitivity knob. There is an effects loop "mix " knob on the front of the amp, which according to the manual is used to "increase the amount of effect you hear"..... I just wonder if I'm wasting my money on the echoplex or any pedal that I decide to put in the loop without it having a sensitivity knob..... I am already considering adding reverb to the loop chain after this initial set up. Thank you again for your great channel.
Typically with a parallel fx loop you'll run the wet effects in the loop 100% wet and then mix that with the dry signal with some sort of blend control on the amp itself.
Curious about something. I have always seen Compressors in front of the pre on a tube amp, but I know many blues players who like to have the pre set to edge of breakup. Play light and it is clean and dig in and get the crunch. If a compressor is in front, it seems like that limits the dynamic range of soft to loud hitting the pre, depending on how low the threshold is set and how much compression is used. In this situation, if you had a proper level FX loop, would a compressor make sense at the beginning of the FX loop to make up some gain of the volume difference between strumming lightly and strumming harder. It might seem counterintuitive to the guitarist since you assume it will get quieter when you strum lighter, but it seems like having the ability to have a more consistent volume and just altering your attack on the strings would be helpful. I am not saying the gentle picking should be as loud as a full hard strum, but compressing some of the dynamics, after the pre has done its thing with regard to dirt, would bring up the volume of the softer strumming that is clean to be closer to the volume of the harder strumming that gets dirtier in the pre. Does this make sense?
I am going to do some experimenting, but I only have an old GNX1 that has a compressor, so probably not the greatest test subject.
Compressors in a studio are after the mic, so some people opt to emulate that in their rigs as a consequence.
Hi Mason, as always your videos are worth every second! I'd like to ask a question hoping that you can help me! I bought a 40w point to point tube amp second hand ( a D'Angelo one) that has an effects loop with a pot on the back; the person who sold me it said a couple of strange things about the loop in this amp: it's an active one ( ok); It doesn't sit between preamp and power amp but it is a part of the preamp ( what? Is this possible?); it's not meant to be used with pedals but just with "always on" effects like delays and reverbs ( it could make sense); it's an unusual fx loop because it runs in series but sometimes switches to parallel and the other way around ( what???).
I tried a delay through it and it was fine except for the "popping" sound when engaging or disengaging ( solved with a dc filter). I also tried to jump it with a patch cable and the knob acts like some sort of master volume or volume box, from zero to full, ( even with delays in the loop it doesn'control the mix of the effect but still the volume). I've also tried a volume box in the loop, the jhs little black box, and the sound is as quite identical as the jumped loop.I'll appreciate to know what you think about it ( obviously up to where is possible without seeing the amp or the schematics!).
Thanks a lot🙏
Excellent information!!!!! I have a Fender Twin Reverb and a Marshall 410. So now you have clarified why things can sound good or bad. So for the Fender I don't use the effects loop which is great. But pedal order is still important. I have to experiment with my Marshall. I have the Echo Plex Delay and Hall of Fame pedals on the Effects loop. In front of the amp they just cut everything out. However I have an Electric Mistress Flanger and Chorus combo pedal that sounds ok in the loop but I should try in front of the amp. I guess if it was good enough for Eddie it should be good for me?!!!!!
There are preferential difference here. Some like Mod in the loop...I don't personally. When I think about guys like Andy Summers and their EHX Electric Mistress sound I think "why do it any different"???
@@VertexEffectsInc Wow...I just experimented with my Electric Mistress Flanger/Chorus pedal in front of the amp. What a difference!!!! Yeah ...it definitely gives me the Andy Summers sound even though I have a Japanese Strat!!!!! Thanks for the information...I am now jamming out on Roxanne and Message in a Bottle much better!!!!
@@jamesbond4633 Perfect!
Hands down the best vid about loops I've seen. Thanks!!!
Glad it was helpful!
Love these videos, Mason, but man, PLEASE lose that popping sound when graphics appear on screen. Really annoying and unnecessary. We can see when they pop up. Other than that, great videos! Thanks for all you do. I just ordered a Mk II Vertex Boost.
Yes please make it stop
Hello! You are right about Boss pedals.I have just taken off 3 of them off my pedalboard and my tone came back. It seems the only one working fine in front of the amp and in the effects loop are the Waza Craft type.I guess they have good buffer 1M/100K.Same as the EQ Devices.
By plugging and unplugging the return of the effects loop for comparison gave me a proof of what Boss pedals can do to a guitar tone.Too many will suck tone.They were replaced by EQ Devices..
It seems now they all talk to one and other properly on the pedalboard.
Thx and have a good life!
The Waza's seem to have the same impedances as does the Earthquaker. Remember it should be 100 ohms, not 100K ohms (100,000).
I have a Quilter Superblock US. But I cannot find info on if the effects loop is buffered or active..do you know? Additionally, what do you think about me putting the Superblock on my pedal board and running a speaker cable to my cabinet? Does that need a buffer? I wanted everything in one place and am trying to avoid power cable spaghetti. Finally, THANK YOU for all of this incredible content. We're lucky to have access to your incredible expertise-very grateful.
Not sure how they're doing it. Maybe email them. Also, since it's pedalboard based it may not be that much of a problem anyway since the cables are so short.
Great content Mason.
Thanks for watching!
Great vid! I run a Line 6 HXFX with a 2004 JCM 2000 DSL 50 and I use its effects loop with 4cm. Each of the 4 cables is 22' long. I definitely experience tone loss using the HXFX into the effects loop. Is the Kleinulator what I need to correct this? I LOVE my amp and the HXFX on their own, but, together they are more rrama than the Kardashians. Thanks for your advice!
It will turn that into an active loop with the right buffering.
I actually have an example of a time when you would want to use an effects loop even though you are using pedal distortion into a clean amp: when you have a parallel effects loop (in my case, I use a Boss Katana Artist MKii, which can switch to serial or parallel), and you want to use a different amp (In my case, a 1979 Peavey Classic 100 combo 50w 2x12) for wet signals. I run the Boss effects output into a Tone City Tape Machine delay pedal, and the output from the delay pedal is ran into the Peavey input. Then I use the Peavey's onboard reverb and trem, which I'm able to really crank to a level I couldn't dream of if I were using a dry signal in the Peavey or trying to use the Katana's onboard reverb or trem. Anyway it's a poor man's wet/dry setup. My signal chain is Ram's Head Big Muff Pi nano into Xotic USA E.P. Booster into no-name Klon clone from Wish into Arion Tubulator into Boss BD-2 Blues Driver into Tone City Comp Engine compressor into Tone City Golden Plexi distortion into the Boss Katana's clean channel. I usually use the booster pedal and blues driver for the Les Paul and the Klon for the Strat, and everything but the Big Muff has the drive all the way down. If you read this far, you get an attaboy. Point is, it's unconventional but sounds epic and yuge.
You're really using your FX Loop send like a line level out almost at that point, not really a true effects loop in this case.
@@VertexEffectsInc Yes true. I have to use the effects send for the wet because I am using the line out to send to the Tascam Model 24 for both PA signal and as an interface. I record the input signal from the Boss as well as the room mic channels and the hall mic channel, so I can choose how saturated the final guitar signal is (usually hardly at all, but it's there if-and-when I need it). It's interesting: when practicing I like plenty of bigness and multiple delays and multiple reverbs, but when I record a song and do post-production, I invariable end up editing all that washy, time-based stuff out.
In the case that you wanna run your modulation pedals with your amp derived distortion, would you want those in the fx loop?
I added an EB Tech Line Level shifter to get the levels right on the loop of my Randall RT100 after I got an ES-8. Now it's great, but it was driving me crazy after I got it and couldn't figure out what was wrong and I couldn't find anything in the ES-8 to change those levels.
That would only solve the issue of the line level, not the fact that it needs a buffer still. Some of the pedals can't even take -10 and will need -20 to not clip.
I've been reading alot comments about EQ pedals in the fx loop that sounds better than running into the input.
Well in those two different contexts they are better at two different jobs. So you'd never stick an eq in front of your input if you wanted a very functional Eq over you global sound. However you would if you wanted to boost or shape you guitar tone and even push it into extra distortion. Adding an EQ in the loop is a better solution for global eqing of your sound before it goes out of your speakers or as a clean boost for volume only. You'd never use an EQ in the loop for a distortion boost for example. So both good depending on what job you want the eq to fulfill.
Excellent, pro, informative video!!
Thank you, very useful information.
Glad it was helpful!
What's with all low-end the popping noises in the video? More annoying than 60 Hz hum in a signal chain.
Hi Maxon. Please forgive my ignorance. I have a question for you. I understand that my amp (Hot Rod Deville ML) one exactly like the one in your video, has an External Effects Loop built in, also a Preamp Out option and a Power Amp In as well. I've purchased The Sheriff Pedal Preamp, but I'm not sure how to connect it to my amp. According to Victory, the best way to use the Sheriff is from the pedal's Loop input to the amp's Effects Loop send and from the pedal's Loop output to the amp's Effects Loop return, but I've noticed that my amp only has one external Effects Loop. Does this mean I can't use the pedal this way, which Victory say is the most recommended? Thank you in advance for your time. looking very forward to your reply. 🙏🙏
Great video! I learned new things!
Glad it was helpful!
Top review from top man.
Much appreciated
You should tell us how to tell if the pedal is line level or instrument, thx.
Only cereal loops I need are fruit
Great vid.
🙏🙏🙏
I meant the master volume is after the return just before the power amp section. That's how I understand it but that does not mean I am correct
See my response to your other comment :)
Your ss Supreme pedal is the best sounding pedal I've ever heard just wish I could afford one lol one of these days
Wow! Thanks!
docta tells all...i don't go with the loopty loop...but now i get it...im simple
it can be useful if you have a high gain amp, otherwise in front of the amp is OK.
Great info! Thanks for the effort
Thanks for watching! Hope we earned your sub!
Definitely
How familiar are you with the HX Stomp effects loop? I want to run my drives in it so I can put the expression in front of them for pitch shifters, vol, and wah.
Great stuff once again, Mason!
Thanks for watching!
What if your using some gain from the amp for your clean sound. I have a Fender hotrod Deluxe tube amp. I like using just a touch of gain with my clean sound?
This is highly educating! I can't get enough of these videos!
Question, I experience tone suck when I put my ods in the fx loop of my Line6 HX stomp.
How can I fix it?
Thanks!
I'm so glad! Could be the settings inside the HX, could be how your connecting them or could be the impedances not matching up well. Do the OD's sound different run into the front of the HX?
@@VertexEffectsInc Thank you so much for the reply!
I tried a few different things such as playing with the impedance in the HX, I connect the first od in the chain to the send and the last to the return all via patch cables, I should say I don't use buffers at the start or at the end, but I don't normally experience tone suck when I plug them in the amp, so yeah, te ods do sound different when in the fx loop.
@@nazarenoscanferlato2154 I'd try a buffer first and see how it responds.
@@VertexEffectsInc I will try that! Thanks a lot!
Keep up the good work! 💪💪
So given that you want to put time based effects after the distortion generating gain stage, what if a guitar player was trying to push for power amp distortion instead of pre amp distortion? If I were to use the FX loop in that context, wouldn't I be facing the same issue as putting a reverb in front of a distorting pre amp? Would that mean that I need to mic up the amp without the reverb and run the signal through an outboard FX unit instead? (or more practically nowadays, I'd probably be driving the power amp hard but running the speaker out into a loadbox such as a Torpedo Captor X, after which I can run the line out signal into a time-based FX unit then. Would that be your advice? Thanks!
You can boost into the power amp, fx return, if you want to do that.
Great Video!
🙏🙏🙏 thanks for watching!!!
A dark sounding delay (like a Boss DM-2) actually sounds good when placed BEFORE distortion. Try it!
If you like it...
@@VertexEffectsInc I don't like it myself, but it sounds good. Distortion compensates the degrading treble of each delay trail, amazing coincidence. Pretty standard sound in shoegaze or post-rock.
I have a Mesa Boogie Fillmore 50 head. It has a buffered/active effects loop, so can I assume that the 20’ cable run from the effects loop Send TO my pedal board (delay and reverb only with other effects on the front end rather than in the loop)? If so, do I still need a buffer after the reverb (last time based effect) before the 20’ cable going back to the loop return on my amp? Even with a buffered pedal I assume a quality buffer will give me better results than just trusting the pedal’s buffer. This is a great video! Your info is very comprehensive and well presented. Well done! Thanks!!
Depends on the output impedance of the last pedal in the loop. 100 ohm would be ideal.
Appreciate this video so much! So if you have a clean preamp on the amp head (lots of headroom, not really gonna distort or you get your distortion from pedals) then the fx loop is basically useless. Just run everything to the front of the amp.
That's right!
Does Kleinolator works when my fx loop is too hot?
That send level can adjust the level hitting your pedals between instrument and line level. So yes.
I bought the Kleinulator....I hope it works. I have a Marshall dsl40cr and the effects loop does not work great with boss pedals. It has one of those effects loops with no send/return volume. You lose volume and treble. It's really irritating that these companies cannot have a bit more transparency in regards to effects loops on amps and pedals. For instance, labelling them specifically for Line level or guitar level would do wonders in the information before you buy it.
This should be great for you!
@@VertexEffectsInc If it does then I'd say this pedal literally saved the year for me. It's so irritating having an amp that sounds decent only to be completely thrown under the bus with effects loop problems.
Mason, what about having your amp on the "edge of breakup" as opposed to full-on distortion? Would that still qualify as preamp overdrive and a reason to buy the kleinulater?
Those pops were off the charts today! Lol
Depends on whether it's preamp or power amp distortion. If you're using a non-master volume amp and running it at break-up it's all power amp distortion if a pedal isn't hitting it to do the break up. If you have a master volume amp it's perhaps more pre-amp distortion depending on the design and may not be involving the power amp distortion in that case. If the preamp is generating the distortion, the effects loop is important. If the power amp is doing it, you'll have to experiment as it can depend.