Why The Robinson R22 Is SO Hard To Fly
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- Опубликовано: 3 окт 2024
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Hey! In this video I talk about why the Robinson R22 Helicopter is so hard to fly. Unlike the Robinson R44, R66, Or the Bell 505, the R22 seems to be a more challenging helicopter than any other. There may be a simple reason as to why….
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I started in the R-22. I was blessed to of been able to catch on real quick took me about 40 min and I had all 3 controls and was hovering. I started march 5th of this year. And I am now a private pilot, shooting for my commercial now. I have no time to waste I love this stuff and I’m 42 years old!!! I love your videos man keep up the good work. Maybe I’ll get to meet ya one day
Aaron Smith
hello Aaron, do you know what to learn or expect for pre entry exams in a flight school for helicopter training in a R-44
I recently started training on the R22. In fact, today was my second flight lesson. I could easily handle the pedals and had decent control with the collective but I really struggled to control the cyclic. I found it very discouraging to say the least. After watching this video, I now see that I am not alone in my struggles. I really appreciate you sharing your experience!
I am also training in the 22 and have about 8 hours and I still have trouble hovering but getting better
How’s training going?
I had my first lesson in the Cabri G2 and my second hover was better but lost control fast. I have heard that less is more and watch the horizon. Most of all relax and roll with the aircraft. Easier said than done but it was very discouraging to say the least. Belief is a powerful thing. We can do it. Let’s get it!! Born to fly.
@@I_AM_ALL_THAT_WAS It takes some time, and then it’ll click. I still get tossed around in wind and have to concentrate at almost 70 hrs, which still isn’t that many hours. I’m almost 3/4 through instrument. I promise you’ll get there!
Same! So discouraging. But stay with it
Devin, I agree 100%.
I had my first discovery flight a coupla sundays ago, and that's exactly what happened to me. The R22 is like a superlight
Hummingbird. I did the pedals, no problem, maintained a heading, did the collective, no problem, but when I got to the cyclic, Holy sh!t,
I tried to hold it steady, n no matter what I did the bird would pendulum from side to side, it got pretty bad, I thought the rotor was going to strike the ground. My instructor got it under control, a young kid, but a damn good pilot. Afterwards I figured the trick is to keep the cyclic/rotor level with the horizon to stay upright. At 1000 feet, I was able to fly towards a lake with all the controls, the cyclic was not so twitchy. I think hovering in ground effect also has something to do with it being twitchy. The R22 is twitchy for sure, but if you can master hovering that 🐦 bird, you should be able to easily hover a heavier helicopter.
I've read about Huey pilots saying that flying the Huey's are fairly easy n very forgiving machines. The lightweight birds can be pushed around by the slightest of cross winds n you are constantly correcting, while the heavier birds are more stable because of their weight. I'm not giving up, I will learn to fly the R22, come hell or high water. And thanks for your info, it eases some of our apprehension..🚁
When flying a heli like R22 you can not fly by reacting or you will be dead, you must predict how the heli will move and react and correct it before it starts to happen... If you react you will get oscillations that gets worse and worse and similar bad things happening.
Devin, I learned in a Hughes 269 and was able to Solo in 6 hours. I will never forget that day 25 years ago. My instructor was 289 pounds and at the time I was about 180. I flew right seat so having such a heavy instructor on the left made the heli nose heavy to the left. At hover the stick was aft and to the right so I rested my arm on my right thigh with the stick far aft. Manifold pressure and RPM were maxed out at hover to where losing 100 RPM was a big deal. This thing had no governor or any aids to help relieve pilot work load. It was a bear to fly. I felt like we were about to die at any given moment. :-) On that 6 hour day my instructor stepped out and I was like "WTF, where is he going". He stood about 100 feet in front of the heli and told me I was on my own. When I pulled up into a hover I thought the skid was stuck because I was use to my old center. I quickly realized I had to re learn my new center. I pulled up and got myself into a PIO. I was so scared I literally though I was about to die. My instructor did no know weather to run or dodge the heli. :-) I remember him telling me to let go of the stick and let the heli settle down. I remember talking to the heli and sayin, "You are not going to kill me today you MF". I finally got it under control and within a few minutes I was back. Learning to fly in these smaller lower power helis will definitely make you a better pilot and grow some hair on your chest. When I stepped into a 206 it was super easy. Not to mention it had gobs of power, a governor and hydraulics which all added up to a great experience. As for me I will never fly an R22 or for that matter any piston heli again. If I cant afford a turbine heli then I will not fly one at all. Heli's are awesome to say the least and you heli instructors are crazier than most test pilots out there. Best of luck and wish I was young all over again. I would have loved to be a Heli Pilot for a living.
Thank you for this video. I am literally 10 hours in and took 4 days off to try and figure out if I want to continue spending so much money on some thing I feel like I am not getting. Your video has literally changed my mind NOT to quit!! I was so close to quitting but I want to FLY so bad. Thank you for the encouragement greatly appreciated. This is certainly the hardest thing I’ve ever tried to do.
Kerrie that made my day. I'm sorry for the late response but thank you for leaving that comment. I know right where you are. It is half a mental game as it is a physical skill learning how to fly. I questioned if I would be able to do it during my initial training as well. The first 20 hours are an insane period and the goal I have for my students is to get 0.5% better each flight. Or learn something or pick up 0.5% each flight. Eventually with enough 0.5%'s ----- that will turn into something powerful. Keep crushing it and trying and working through it. I look forward to hearing from you and keeping up with your progress. Let me know how it goes!
I have never quit anything i have ever done in my Life until i was learning to fly R22A AND R22HP in 1995 los angeles . I though about it and was really going to give it up but my instructor at the time pushed me to keep going . All of a sudden it clicked and came together . What a relief and its a fantastic feeling when you do . If you have never being at the controls of a helicopter you wont understand . Next was cross wind landing which i relished doing . At the time we did not have an electronic governor and had to do the throttle manually .
How are things going… better?!
I would recommend learning the basics in a simulator on a PC with pedals and joystick. That is how I learned to fly a heli and later moved on to flying a co axial RC heli. Never flown a real heli, only been passenger once. Learning from scratch in a real heli will be expencive for all the lessons you will need...
It’s like riding a bike one day it just clicks and your left wondering why it was such a problem in the first place , great little helicopter allowed a lot of us to get into helicopter flying…
The R-22 is squirrely because it's so light. We got the UH-1 in "67", after the H-43 we loved the Huey in various models. When we got the LOACH (Hughs 500 C) called the OH-6, we went through a similar change over. After the Huey most of thought the OH-6 was squirrely. Once mastered the OH-6 was a blast. I loved the 6. I flew the R-22 some years ago and it took me an 1/2 hour to get it under control because the cyclic is so sensitive but once mastered, it was fun to fly. At first I was afraid I'd break it, it's so small. If a trainee can't master the 22, they shouldn't be flying rotorcraft.
These videos you make and all the comments below them by pilots are a real goldmine, Thank you!
I'm just a week or so away from my PPL check ride, been training in the R22. Hovering didn't take long to figure out, maybe 4 hours or so, but man, landing took like 20hrs. I could get the bird centered up on a spot EZPZ but I would just get so nervous while easing it down that I'd start wobbling around, get scared, and get it higher up again. Every landing took a solid 4-5 minutes to execute until one day I just "got it" and they suddenly became no big deal.
How’d the check ride go?!
@@VictoryAviation I passed!
@@Maverickib Outstanding! On to instrument now!?
@@VictoryAviation Not for now. I don't have any intentions of flying for money. Just going to fly recreationally, which means I'm going to be a fair weather flyer :)
@@Maverickib Nothing wrong with that! Congratulations on earning your rating. As a pilot you fall into a very small demographic. As a helicopter pilot you fall into an even more elite category!
Thanks for the video. I had 40+ hrs training of R22 but none of the manoeuvres I handled well. Very frustrated and down after every lessons. After watching your video I found I am not alone. 😊
I think learning is a helicopter without a governor makes you a better helicopter pilot because your brain is constantly in the control loop of the rotor RPM. You are instantly aware when the throttle to full open etc...
I did my 1hr discovery flight yesterday. I found the pedals and collective to be fairly easy. When he gave gave me the cyclic I felt like I was going to crash. I watched every video I could before I did my flight so I knew to be easy with my inputs but holy shit I didn’t realize it was that touchy. I finally got the hang of it and could keep my air speed and altitude so I was really excited to try hovering. I could hover for about 30 seconds before it would get away from me. I was able to stop a pendulum once but I could only hold it for about 30 seconds and it got away from me again. I stayed calm the entire flight until it came to hovering. That took a lot of nerves and was a tad frustrating that I could get it. I can’t wait to go back up .
Hey Daniel! Congrats on the first flight and great job!! That is how it goes for every single person. Hovering is shockingly hard to learn. It is wildly sensitive. But that's the best part of flying.. Once you can get the hovering down, it becomes the greatest machine to have the privilege to operate. I wish you all the luck on your journey and stay in touch!
Yes! I took my intro flight two days ago in the R22 and experienced this exact thing. Super frustrating but also just makes me want to master it.
I'm the guy this video is for! Got 4 hours in a 22 and 1 in a 44. The one time I tried to hover the 22 it looked like the Yogi Bear cartoon where he's flying upside down. Then I got in a 44 and the instructor said, "nothing near the ground". However I was able to fly straight & level, making turns and changing altitude. I was even able to use the instruments - something I would never think of trying in a 22, it's too busy being squirrelly! Anyway your point of training in a 22 seems like a good one. I noticed immediately how much easier it was to fly the 44. But alas my heli career is probably over as I'm now hitting 67 and suffering from mephunzalo (my funds are low). Will still watch your videos though, they are so comprehensive and well thought out, a pleasure to view. Thanx much...
I'm at about 10 hours right now in the R22 going for my commercial and I didn't find hovering terribly difficult but holding my approach angle and not losing ETL when coming in to land is what I'm working on right now
I have over 180 hours in the ORIGINAL 1979 R22 ... No governor back in my day it was all hands on... The first 8 hours trying to hover that helicopter ( In Kansas with the gusty winds ) was the hardest thing I ever tried to do in my life..... Then all of a sudden I got it and to this day I have no clue why. I just finally got the feel I guess... from that point forward I didn't have any trouble. Hovering became second nature after that moment.... Before I started Helicopter training I was an instrument rated single & multi engine pilot .. Which I don't think helped at all ... I practiced over 200 autorotation's over my time and I got very good at putting that chopper down exactly where I chose at the moment of the procedure...The R22 I flew back then was not instrument equipped for instrument flying so I was unable to fly into IFR conditions. Without a doubt the R22 was the most fun flying of my life and now in my old age I look back at those days with the fondest of memories. Flying in the summer without doors was awesome. Taking my best friend up on the fourth of July to watch the fireworks from above was absolutely the best time of my life... Back in the early 1980's you could land about anywhere and no one complained... No way you could get away with landing in folks back yards today ... Neighbors would raise H... for sure, but back then it was a different world... I use to fly in and out of my yard all the time.. Only problem was the R22's down pointing exhaust that would start a fire if the grass was too dry... Either way it would burn the grass if you were there more than a few seconds... So you had to be quick of shut down ... Thanks for the video and reminding me of some of the best times of my life ....
I spent years practicing helicopter on MSFS and Xplane. When I did my Discovery flight on the R22, the hovering was actually a little easier than I thought. It was definitely challenging, but didn't feeling harder than the R22 in Xplane 12
One little correction at the beginning of the video. The governor doesn't control rotor RPM, it controls engine throttle so that rotor RPM stays constant.
I started on the Cabri. Recently converted over to the 22 and 44. The tall mast and correcting for a disc spinning in the "wrong" direction got me at the start but honestly the 22s been my favorite machine to fly so far. Good thing too as I'll be flying robbies for the foreseeable future.
You are 100% correct. It is the lack of Mass in the R-22 Rotor system and the light weight of the airframe. 7.5 hours to Hovering. And it just happened. The flight before I couldn't hover.
Went Home with a massive headache, then the next day, the first flight of the day, I could !!!!!! I now have 3,000 hrs plus on 206, 350 and L-4. I occasionally take out a 22 for training because you have to constantly fly a 22 as it is trying to kill you lol !!!
One of my students summed up learning to hover well. She described it as "the most helpless I have ever felt "
Yup, I recall vividly lol
When I started on the Robinson R-22 it took me four hours and a half to be able to hover it. It was amazing!
Quick stops was the tool my CFI used to help me get the feel of hovering.
How that?
I've been flying an R22-B22 for about 55 hours now in training and it definitely took a while to truly get it down. It was probably 10 hours in before I could even hold a steady hover with that thing, but now it's a breeze to fly this little monster
Took me about 12 hours plus to sort cyclic / peddles in hover, especially in a cross wind. Auto's were a piece of cake. But if you're struggling, try and mentally relax (if you can) and fix a point maybe 30 meters out front, using gentle imput's and do simple spot press-up's. Failing that, try a few intense days on a forklift moving stuff about, or a tracked digger to feel the subtle feathering of hydraulics - and no, you can't crash, but it will teach you the importance of having soft hands, with gentle movement😆
Great explanation!
I learned to fly in a bell 206. I was a helicopter mechanic who also got to go with the helicopter and subsequently got to be on the controls. I eventually could do all of the flying which included take offs and landings. I then figured why not go to flight school and get rated. So I found myself in an R22. I was a bit taken back at first by the cyclic, not only the hoopty teeter totter dual control thing but how you can feel all the vibrations from the main rotor. That kinda scared me as I was used to that butter smooth hydraulic control feel. I considered quitting but I stuck with it. Over all I did not find flying the R22 harder coming from a bigger helicopter experience. I have heard of what you are saying about the R22 being hard to fly, that wasn't the case with me.
Ah so great to happen onto this video. I did a discovery flight and found that with the cyclic in hand I was completely unable to control a hover. I came away wondering why in such a twitchy aircraft weren't the cyclic linkages simply adjusted to require more input to effect flight. I shudder to think how easily flight control could be affected by turbulence and a pilot being rocked about while trying to hold the cyclic steady.
Can't talk about the R22 since I'm learning to fly the R44. I've reached about 15 hours and my hovering keeps improving after each session (1 hour weekly). But there was no magic moment when I said to myself, "wow, I can hover!" It's a skill that is developing slowly. Coping with the wind especially gusting wind is more challenging than flying on a calm day but the absence of wind does not necessarily simplify the task. The basics have still to put into practise. Count up from 15 in. HG to 18 in. HG. on the MAP - expect the heli to become light on the skids at about 17 in. HG. Then eyes out of the cockpit (do your final checks whilst on the ground) and lift off at about 18 in. HG. Anticipate the need for left pedal on lift off but use a gentle, "easy peasy" pedal input to correct the yaw to the right. There's a bit of a technique to learn for the pedals. Keep a constant pressure on both pedals with your feet. That way when you push forward on one pedal the pedal movement will necessarily be quite limited. This avoids or at least helps avoid any stabbing movement on the pedal. Use a gentle movement on the collective to stop at your hover height. Avoid the heli moving forward by gently pulling back on the cyclic: I have a fear of the tail hitting the ground which I have to overcome. With gust induced movements, again use gentle corrections. Avoid gripping the cyclic, just hold it between finger and thumb. When lifting off, be aware of the wind direction and, if possible, lift off into wind.
Wow! You are really getting it! You have a complete understanding of the fundamentals to control the helicopter, and all you need is that practice and time in the aircraft. To understand how gentle you have to be and how to correctly respond to wind gusts is so important. I'm sure you are progressing at a great rate. James, stay in touch and keep me posted on your journey. The R44 is an incredible helicopter and a privilege to fly! Have fun and good luck!
Great reading your comment! I'm about to start fulltime in January on the R44 going for commercial. Did some hover practice during a 1hr intro flight earlier this year and even just over the maybe 30minutes of actual hover practice I felt I had improved, but getting that pendular action under control is definitely something that's been on my mind. Good luck out there!
I was so frustrated learning to hover and it took 8 hours before I just got it...I thought the instructor was helping me until he showed me his Al Jolson hands! The next big challenge for me was quick stops...stopping it gaining height was so challenging to get coordinated cyclic, collective and pedal inputs.
Let me tell you....when you hover take a reference point by looking out out straight and take a reference Point 50 plus yard from the you. Hope this helps...
Always great content keep it up man
Thank you so much Karson. Means the world to me!
The best thing to compare learning cyclic control to, is not bikes or cars or unicycles. But practice balancing a broom in the palm of your hand. The amount of time it takes you to keep that broom standing straight up in your fully open palm for an extended amount of time. Is probably how long it will take you to master the cyclic control on a helo... Secondly, that damn handlebar setup in the R22 is not an ideal setup to learn cyclic control either.
Exactly!! That is a great comparsion. An d honestly the frustration you will experince with that learning process is probably even less that learning to hover the 22 LOL!
As a helicopter pilot myself there really is no such thing as an easy fly chopper . Some more than others only .
I learned to fly in a Schweitzer 300, I don't remember it being too hard to hover, I would slowly drift all over the place with plenty of time to correct/over correct. There was more mass in the 3 blades making the change in rotor rpm to be more forgiving than the R22 but you did have to watch it. The 300 didn't have a governor, but it was spring loaded so that it only needed small adjustments. From your description, it sounds like the R22 would be an interesting challenge.
Learning to hover is like learning how to ride a bike. Its not how much, or little, your moving the cyclic, its your subconscious learning how to balance it.
I never considered the R22 difficult to fly, but then I had no point of reference being that it was the first chopper I'd ever flown.
I definitely think its easier to hover the 22 than the 44, or 206. The hydraulics on those two have jack for feedback. It took me 50 hours in the 44 to stop rocking in a hover, and I kept having to slide the 206 to get it down smoothly.
As for autos, I like the way the 22 autos, but then maybe I'm just used to it. Sure, it goes down quicker than a 44, or 206, but its still a lot better than autoing a Schweizer,...with those a 180 is like sliding down a stripper pole!
Sorry, don't remember how many hours it took to hover. I just remember that one morning flight I was still struggling, then (like flipping a switch) on my afternoon fight BAMN, suddenly I could hover.
Thats exactly how it typically goes!! From nothing all the way to something. Wihtout even realizing it your brain has learned how to hover.
Great Video! The r22 is crazy hard to learn in the beginning.. and an auto in the r22 is sooo scary with an Density Altitude of over 8000ft💩
Oh man that sounds brutal. Those RPMS move so fast. I can't even imagine at that altitude. I bet when you enter the auto you feel like you really fall untill it catches you!!
@@PilotDevin Exactly like that it drops out under you like a rollercoaster.. Scares the 💩 out of me to do autos in the 22..
Fly safe Devin🙏🏻 take care man
Cabri g2 first hover lesson. Also very difficult.
Don't talk to me about hovering 🤨 My logbook is effects of controls, straight and level, hovering, hovering revision, hovering revision, hovering revision, hovering revision, hovering revision... 😒 It took me so long to hold a stable hover.
I was only flying on weekends. It was around the 11th hour I had hovering down.
I started flight training on R22 in the mid 1980's and only managed 3hrs before stopping and re-evaluating my situation due to finances and only managing 1 lesson per month which does nothing for the learning curve , I did resume training years later but on fixed wing as it was more affordable to gain my license but I digress. When I ceased helicopter training it was the 3rd lesson and it was hovering, like everyone I guess, I was given the pedals first which wasn't too bad, then I was given the collective which was a bit more difficult and this particular R22 I was in was a much earlier model and wasn't fitted with a governor so I yo yoed a fair amount...and then I was given the cyclic and all mayhem broke loose and as it was a windy day this machine was all over the place like a cat that's had tiger balm applied to its backside (not that I've ever done this to a moggy as I love animals but will use this example for the purpose of analogy 🤔😄) I later learned and it has been mentioned before that particularly in a Robinson if you're moving the controls you're moving them too much and it's just gentle pressures that are required
For me it was the pedals giving me the most trouble. I picked up on the cyclic fairly quick, I had it under control within the first 2 lessons but every time we started to yaw just a little bit I would over correct with the pedals and that would just screw everything up lol. That continued for maybe another 5 lessons or so. I'm 20 hours into my training now and every once in a while I still over correct with the pedals when doing certain things like quick stops or hover autos. I just have a lead right foot and my left foot doesn't want anything to do with it I guess 🤷♂
I soloed in a R22 after 9 hours. Maybe something something is wrong with the way your instructor teaches you. Have you changed instructor?
Your instructor should focus on helping you overcome the yaw/ pedal anxiety... Probably you just have a mental blockage towards this... It can be overcome with the right training... For example, if you are ok with stable hovering, do one hour of pedal turn lessons, just playing with the pedals... Also do some mental training... You will overcome this!
11 hour’s to hover an R22 nightmare !!
The basic but very comprehensible mistake is grabbing the cyclic handle and closing the fingers around it. This is what you do with a motorcycle throttle and in fact what your left hand is doing with the collective, although not as necessary when the governor is switched on. The initial fear factor and not knowing how the craft will react also contributes to the “grab” effect as the student instinctively tries to hold the helicopter up in the air by mentally lifting it with his hand. This will sound ridiculous to those who have never been in this position but an honest student will admit that’s what his body tells him to do.
So, unlike all other heavier craft you hold the cyclic control with three fingers on the front and the thumb at the back relaxing that elbow and just using the wrist to apply input. The reason the helicopter sways back and forth is that your determination leads you to use the whole arm instead of just the wrist, three fingers and thumb. Remember, it’s a machine. It can’t think for itself (despite your being convinced the damn thing can) and eventually you’ll be flying it as an extension of your body. Think like this: Your eyes will determine where you’re going and the helicopter will take you there.
Its easier to fly but trying to land on the yacht helipad while the yacht is moving and turning left and right, I couldn't do it.
I got my licence 20 years ago ... and yes mastering a hover was a challenge - but actually I found it easier with all 3 controls available to me rather than just , say, the cyclic.... it gives a more complete feedback.
great video
I guess that's why military chopper pilots start training right off with the big birds....actually easier, not harder, to learn basic skills on. I wonder how many Marine One pilots would do great with their first time flying an R22.
HAHA exactly!!!!
My least favorite heli I've flown. Too unforgiving, no matter how economical it is.
Understandable!
Hola! No creo que sea sólo por el poco peso ya que hay otras marcas que no tienen ese problema, incluso los mosquitos son super livianos y tampoco lo tienen. Sdos
I am a CFI on Robinsons. Just a little thing: I tell my students to practice balancing a broom stick on their index finger. It helped a lot with flying helicopters.
Could you elaborate? Do you mean across your finger lengthways or stood on its end vertically? How would you say this helps? Genuinely interested as just starting my lessons now and want all the help I can get my hands on please 😊
@@ShadowGirlKita Vertically...
Helicopters are instable just as a stick you balance on your finger. If you manage to controll and hold the stick upright without even thinking about it, your brain is trained to handle instable conditions... Sound funny, but works.
Flew in the 22 until my private checkride. Luckily my school got a 44 so I get to learn in that for commercial
R22 is the only heli I've ever flown, always assumed that's just how helicopters are. It's been so long since then that I don't remember how long it took me to learn how to hover, but I did get it down eventually.
Early Robinson's didn't have a governor (the throttle wasn't correlated). As you raised collective you had to adjust RPMs/Rotor RPMs to match. Same as lowering the collective... This is back in the 80's... I learned in the R22, Bell 47 & Hughes/Schweizer 269/300...
I learned to fly them pre governor. Do they train people now with the governor off?
Learned in the 269 and 300. Years later I wanted to get checked out in the r-22. The machine felt like a toy compared to the switzer. With the governer and cross bar you have to hold it on your leg to stabilize the cyclic to hover smoothly..
It is a weird desgin. I agree
I'm a fan of the R22 (not a pilot) and I did enjoy your video. However it doesn't seem like you describe what you did to deal with the weight/sensitivity issue. You say you figured it out by lesson 8 (I think) but what did you do? It didn't seem like you could hold your hand any more still. Just curious and thank you for the video!
It’s like learning to ride a bike. At first it seems difficult, then it seems impossible…and then, quite suddenly you can do it. Helicopters are difficult to start wit because you absolutely have to be able to hover, as everything you do in a helicopter starts and stops in the hover. Also true that the R-22 is the most twitchy and sensitive helicopter you’ll ever fly. Others will have greater work load because of all the extra and duplicate systems, but in terms of basic controls, a Robinson isn’t easy, if a mosquito farts in the cockpit…you feel it. I learned in Florida back in the 1990’s. I think it took about 7/8 hours to hover competently. I also remember my first flight in a 206L-3 , and was amazed how easy and docile it was to fly, after the Robinson it was like going from an old MG sports car to a big Mercedes!
I just had my first lesson in R22 anddddd . same thing dont know how the cyclic will be controlled, Any tips welcome please
Seems like you are describing transient torque. Although I am not that experienced of a helicopter pilot.
I would around 13-15 hours to get to proper hovering. I'm still learning , but I'm having other issues like Quick stops and Auto Rotations still to figure out!
Pretty sure e Governor keeps rpm at 101-104 and the correlation rod raises rpm with lifted collective.
I have not began training yet. However I have had a few flights in a 206, as well as an enstrom 280fx. The enstrom is a great training helicopter, just not as much of a death trap as a Robinson
Hey man thanks! I agree with that but the robinson can be safe if they are flown well and within there envelope!
@@PilotDevin Most definitely. However I’ve heard it’s negative-G maneuvers that set them off. Which something many newer pilots
Will try. Unintentionally or otherwise
I'm still alive and I've got 10 hrs of instruction, flew today, getting there
3:46 Pilot Devin, the wind will blow the helicopter about.
"in a manual transmission car you have the gas pedal, brake, clutch, steering wheel, E-brake"
yeah, during the driving process you may never touch that e brake ;) I was taught to leave it alone at all times because in our area, due to our winter temperatures, the cables were known for getting frozen with ice and not releasing.
1:39 Pilot Devin, there is the correlator and governor. The correlator does most of the work.
True!
I'd like to learn how to fly. Hopefully there's helicopter instructors in my area with R22s
I hope so! Good Luck!!
How is the r22 compared to a mosquito helicopter
4:15 Pilot Devin, your instructor should have told you why that was happening.
I hovered an R22 quite well on my very first (and only) lesson. BUT, I had practiced a few hundred hours in a home simulator. My first introduction was with the R22 in Aerofly FS2. That one was the most challenging and it took several hours before I could lift off without crashing immediately. I then continued with XPlane and the Bell 407 and other helicopters. I’m now playing with the R44, Cabri G2 and others in Microsoft flight simulator.
Without the countless hours I spent on these simulators, I would never have found the R22 so manageable in my first flight. Here is video of my first attempt at hovering in the R22:
ruclips.net/video/veV_vgsuAXU/видео.html
i can hover the g2 pretty good in msfs 2020 and land it just about anywhere, i only have 2 hours in the g2 in real life and it is way harder to hover haha i think i did better in my first flight then my second
I fly RC helicopters - same thing; smaller is more challenging to fly than bigger birds.
I was hovering in about 2 hours and I solo flew in 17 as I recall. Helicopters with low rotor inertia and or a tetering rotor head are death traps. Personal opinion.
7 or 8 hours to be pretty comfortable. Instructor says no problem for me to solo at 20 hours in an R22.
Ive been flying my (Yes I own it) R22 since 1996.
I dont remember having difficulty.
I never went into teaching.
Last week I had a go in a Schweizer 300 .. Always like the look of them.
For me its a case of... Never meet your heros. Not that it was bad I just prefer the Robinson.
This same applies to flying radio control model helicopters.
Well for a new student the R22 is definitely going to be intimidating I have only tried the R44 so far.
So excited for you!!
@@PilotDevin thanks man! I still haven't started at full speed yet. I'm being challenged with paperworks. It's not easy as a non citizen
I have no real chopper time, it is just too hard for me, not flying it, but paying for it. I heard the controls are quite sensitive, to turn right, you just have to think turn right and the machine already did it . Because unlike the more expensive ones, with power boost and even fly by wire, it makes the controls feel more normal. Those systems cannot be installed in a bird worth just $1/2 million. You lucky to have a governor, I drive cars /trucks with a manual transmission and the governor just limit maximum RPM. Some got split axles and several ranges. But in the larger choppers, you have more system complexities to deal with. The R22, Hugh etc is the stage you have to go through to get to the bigger Bells and Eurocropters.
It is tiny and therefore very unstable, like a cat on a hot stoveplate. Which is why it is such an excellent trainer. If you can fly the R22, anything bigger is just plain simple
Good afternoon. I am interested in the dimensions of the Robinson R22 helicopter, namely the length of the chassis, the length of the cabin to the tail, the length of the tail, the diameter of the tail at the beginning and at the end, the width of the propeller blade, the width and height of the doors, the width and height of the windshields, the height of the I would be very grateful if you could help me with this 😀🙏. I want to create a full-size copy for a photo shoot.
I think all that info is available at the Robinson Helicopter website. And each helicopter has a manual, and such data should be in there also.
@@W7DXW Everyone who sells these sizes sends me to the Robinson website, but there are no sizes I need. That's why I ask you if you have access to the helicopter. I've looked through a lot of sites and Manuilov, but the sizes there are only general and ok that I don't need them.
A fascinating description of the R22's squirrelly handling. Now, chances are low that I'll ever fly a real helicopter, but I have a few hundred hours flying a virtual R22 with Microsoft Flight Sim 2004, during which I mastered the art of maintaining dead still hovers with a minimalist touch on the cyclic
Is it true that the absence of the seat-of-the-pants sensations of motion when training to fly helicopters with a desktop simulator actually makes it more challenging to master hovering in a fixed-base simulator, than in a real helicopter? I'm just wondering whether I'd be able to transition from the sim to a real-life R22 without too steep of a learning curve before I can maintain hover as easily in real life as I do now in the sim. Any thoughts on this question that you can find a moment to share would be appreciated.
Hey! Good question, I think that would probably give you a pretty big edge up on somebody who hasn't had any experience in the helicopter. However, there is an indescribable difference from the simulator. But to summarize, yes I think it would make the learning curve shorter.
@@PilotDevin Good to know that all my hours of simulator dabbling aren't wasted ha ha. Maybe one of these days I'll try a lesson to see if I can hack it at real controls. I use a G Stick III cyclic, a Flight Link collective lever with twist grip throttle, and anti-torque pedals with my sim for added realism.
@@riverbankfisher You should give it a shot and record it with go pros. You may be surprised at how well you do. Never know until you try!
Sim training or mental training can do a LOT in flight training, so go on with this. It will reduce the actual flight time needed to perform certain tasks greatly.
The best results come when you mix real training with flight sim/ mental training. This way you get the best of both worlds.
Cyclic is pressure, not movement
Because with the R22 you're flying a damn ATV 4 wheeler. Handlebars and all!!!
Took me about 10 hours to hover in the r22 but I was also learning in the r44 but there like chalk and cheese 👍
im in my 5th hour and omg not able to controll it any exercise you recomend.
Hahaha nope. Honestly you just got to get in it and experince it and learn it. Those first 10 hours are brutal!!
@@PilotDevin yeah it’s getting better and better but honestly it’s so hard but when I come down of the heli I just want to go up there again
I find its super easy to fly r22, on simulator of course
Still challenging!
As a helicopter engineer and manufacturer, r22 and r44 are the worst helicopters ever made. The balance with the longer mast don't match with the helicopter balance and there's no way someone can make them better... I just wish Robinson could manufacture only r66..
I wouldn't agree with you on that. There are absolutly some problems with the R22 /R44 but there are by far worse helicopters that have been made, that still exsist!
@@PilotDevin I'd be interested to know which helicopters you're referring to!! I have seen hate towards the Robinson's that I have not seen towards any other helicopter that make them seem like the worst helicopters on the planet! I like the 44 even with it's flaws, and we operate a ton of them out here around Calgary. Would love to see a video on "What's worse than a Robinson?" So when I'm up there questioning my life's choices, I can say to myself "well, at least I'm not in a " xxxx" haha
If you can fly the R22, you can fly any helicopter.
The problem is that totaly f$^#ed cyclic. The way it can pivot from left to right seat means you get ZERO direct feedback. I hated every second in a Roberson. Changed to a 206 and EVERYTHING became smooth and easy.
Hate Robinson's... just hate them. Find the extra money and train in just about anything else
The Robinsons are a great platform. They are not perfect but it is a great way to get into helicopters for most people!
at least it makes it easier to get in and out if nothing else
Hours to truly pickup to an acceptable hover and make a decent clearing turn, probably 20 -25 hours.
That 20-25 hours was spread across just over 2 years, so defiantly not the best plan.
Pretty much a 2 steps forward, 1 step back when you only train 1-2 days a month.
Only flown the R44 a few hours and no autos so cant speak to that.
The very responsive nature of the R22 can be a bit much at first.
Exactly! Great point. The more you fly the more compund knowledge you have, but even for someone that comes in multiple times a week... It is still in that 15-30 hour range to get competent on the basics!
It’s only a training helicopter because it’s cheap. It was designed that way. Robinson designed it as a personal helicopter not a trainer. If he designed it as a trainer he may have designed it differently.
I learned in a Bell 47. I had hovering down in around 5 hours, but I started with the cyclic first, the I got control in about three hours. I don’t think I want to fly the R22. When I got in one, it was too small inside for me, and I weigh too much for it. I also don’t like the T-bar cyclic stick. I prefer the conventional one.
The controls feature direct bell-cranks, it's NOT forgiving. Constant-correction's the name of the game. It takes HOURS. EVENTUALLY, these constant-corrections become second to nature.
I think when I learn to fly the R22 there was no governor.
The R22 is quite easy to fly... It has been around for way over 35 years now and 85% of all helicopter pilots learned to fly in them ever since. It is a bit twitchy, which is a benefit. Just practice...
I just starting a course on R22... But I'm owner of a mosquito XE!
How does the Mosquito handle compared to the R22 ?? 🤔
@@martinleicht5911 much stable and easier
Thanx !! 👍
100% agreee the R22 helicopter is so dificult to control even if you have 3500 hrs fliying helicopters
It is a wild ride!! Learning to control it is truly difficult!
You are correct, I learn in r22 and hover after 5 hrs from there to bell 47 no governor to fly , R44 was more forgiven, later Euro 120 EC no problem because I learn to fly first in a R22 Robinson , huey 369 the military egg the Porsche in the sky as well a star eurocopter & finally 207 army version all thanks to the small helicopter and it poor enextia keep me alive . You are 100% pilot in turbine time 1500 hrs just can't just fly this light helicopter total out of control . It has killed many pilots , this is why is the only two helicopter in the Faa FAR for a reason.
I was able to hover in 3 hours in the r22 , but I cheated. I was practicing balancing a broom upside down on my hand leading up to 3rd lesson.
That is a great way to practice stability and gentle controls!
@@PilotDevin yes and if you want to upgrade that simple and cheap practice, sit in an office chair and turn your self around with you feet and balance broom at same time.
sounds stupid but I think it works wonders on the brain.
another crossover I found, is if you weld Primarily TIG or Oxy/Ace and you get good at walking the puddle , its the same as the fine motor skills needed in controlling the r22
And a mosquito turbine?
4:20 🤣🤣🤣
Bottom Line... Difficult to Fly... But Easy to Die... 'Nuff said!!!...
15 hours